Yossi Melman is a senior commentator for the Israeli daily Haaretz. He specializes in intelligence, security, terrorism and strategic issues. An author of seven books on these topics, his most recent book, The Nuclear Sphinx of Tehran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the State of Iran was published recently by Carroll & Graf.
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Yossi Melman
Tel Aviv, Israel
Yossi Melman is a senior commentator for the Israeli daily Haaretz. He specializes in intelligence, security, terrorism and strategic issues. An author of seven books on these topics, his most recent book, The Nuclear Sphinx of Tehran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the State of Iran was published recently by Carroll & Graf.
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Dick Cheney's voice (Halliburton interests) and Robert Gates voice (the sane).
Israel can get the approval by the old bible command ("choose your preferred Rabbi", עשה לך רב)
And your statement, that "No decision to attack Iran has been made in Israel" is simply wrong.
2. Since the moment Ehud Barak and Olmert became suspected taking so much bribe (Olmert, from Mr. Talansy and some others. Barak, from Hamas (via Martin Schlaf and the "gass deal") + from Aharon Frenkel, they got the decision to attack Iran in order to divert the attention from them.
Dick Cheney & Halliburton welcome it. But Robert Gates is there to defense U.S (and Israel) from its own evil inclination.
I agree. I think Israel's recent military exercise was not a message to Iran, rather it was a message to the U.S government and to the Europeans and to the 5+1 group. Israel wanted to tell them if you don't want to see a military confrontation with Iran by Israel, which you know what would be the concequences for the world economy and so on, in your next talks to Iran and in your next decision regarding Iran do something serious. Also, Israel knows it cannot do that without the help of the U.S. government. Israel needs the U.S approval not just as its major ally, but also technically and militarly, regarding the Iran situation and its nuclear sites and its strategic depth, Israel would not be able to attack Iran successfully.Moreover, Israel knows Iran would retaliate by its all means including using its allies in Lebenon.
In general, I don't see the war as the most possible thing between the U.S, or Isreal, and Iran. I think the $400 million plan that Mr. Hersh reports could be as a part of a wider plan to increase pressure on Iran just like the economic sanctions. Therefore, it could be regarded as a measure to prevent the war not as a sign of war. After all, the U.S. is not whatsoover in a position to go to another war that would be much more difficult than the current two ones. I think the moderate groups in the Iranian government, especially among the conservative camp, have recently begun to talk publickly about making a positive approach toward the 5+1 group's new proposal and responding to the pressure from them. All these things have made a peacfull agreement more likely in near future.
Just for the historical record, Yossi Melman is wrong about June 1967. Lyndon Johnson neither sanctioned nor turned a blind eye to the Israeli pre-emptive attack. He had told Israel not to attack alone, and was much chagrined when they did so.
When will you write about WAR PROFITEERING by political insiders?
When will you follow the money trail and name the names of the
individuals and corporations now consolidating wealth and power
through endless war? WAR PROFITEERING OLIGARCHY KILLS DEMOCRACY!
When will you write about WAR PROFITEERING by political insiders?
When will you follow the money trail and name the names of the
individuals and corporations now consolidating wealth and power
through endless war? WAR PROFITEERING OLIGARCHY KILLS DEMOCRACY!
Farnaz says:
“US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.”
Ali Sina, another Persian living in Canada, says the following:
“Bush presses for democracy in Islamic countries as if democracy is panacea. Democracy is however a double edge sword. Democracy without responsibility can lead to tyranny. There is nothing more dangerous than putting the power in the hands of a people who are not responsible.
_________________
I guess this is true if you look at what happened with American democracy this century. On the other hand, what is democratic about allowing one person or party to decide who are the "people who are not responsible"?
Responsibility like "God's standards" is in the eye of the beholder. When we let someone or some party dictate "God's standards" or who is responsible and who is not, there is no longer democracy.
Democracy, like religious tolerance, is an alien concept to the closed mind of the religious and political extremist.
1. As long as the Jewish lobby holds American Leadership by their balls, they can and will do anything they like. How come, none of the American leaders, never raised the question of Isreal's own nuclear weapons.
2. Israeli nuclear weapons are as destabilizing and a threat to the region as that of any other country.
3. If Iran is an "Axis of Evil" for supporting hezbollah, what category should US be in, because it supported Mujahideens of Afghanistan against the USSR.
4. Iran, even if they got some weapon, do you think they will have the balls to fire them at any country, themselves or through any terrorists. I remember, the same type of things were said about India and Pakistan when they tested their weapons. It was said that they are irresponsible, don't know what they are doing, but where are we now- US is pushing for a Nuclear Deal with India.
It would be a dire mistake for Israel to attack Iran before our presidential election. Interfering in our political process would lead to a serious loss of US support for Israel. Until Israel is willing to bring their own illegal nuclear program into the discussion, there will be no diplomatic solution possible. Couple this with the Bush/McCain policy of refusing talks with Iran and the cards are stacked in favor of war. Although Iran and Israel have serious problems to iron out, they are their prolems and not the US's. The United States needs to focus on rooting out Al Qaeda in Pakistan and until they do, Israel's campaign against Iran serves as distraction that is seriously threatening our own security.
Farnaz says:
“US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.”
Ali Sina, another Persian living in Canada, says the following:
“Bush presses for democracy in Islamic countries as if democracy is panacea. Democracy is however a double edge sword. Democracy without responsibility can lead to tyranny. There is nothing more dangerous than putting the power in the hands of a people who are not responsible.
Are other Islamic countries ready for democracy? If complete free elections are held today, and people are allowed to choose their own candidates, Osama Bin Laden would probably be elected as the president in several Islamic countries. As for Iraq , although the removal of Saddam was a gain for the world, the future of the Iraqis is less certain.” http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm
(Palestinians Have Spoken)
Observer:
"The reason was that a dictator there threatened its interests in that vital region. Many neighbors of Iraq felt threatened also and actively supported the removal of that regime." End of quote.
The Baker-hamilton report does not lend any credibility to your assessments here. Saddam never threatened the US interests. It actually responded positively to US wishes and invaded Iran. The US kept supplying Iraq with arms directly and indirectly through its proxies plus the most important tool of victory in a war and that is intelligence to keep the war going for eight long years to bleed the two nations to death. the Iranians came eventually as winners and learned the most important lesson a country needs to learn and know and that is if one is going anywhere it should and will go on his own. dependency equals uncertainty. And regarding the kuwait invasion, saddam received the green light from the US when the US Ambassador told Saddam flatly that the US had no objections and was neutral.
Further, your view on responsibilities imposed on a superpower is void of any rational anyone can use.Multiply the US weapons and forces as many times as you wish and if it is void of any just causes and justifications when embarking on adventures overseas, the only ones benefitting would be, no offense or ill wishes intended since this applys to everyone, the body bags manufacturers.
You are out of touch here and is best to leave, no offense intended, these spaces for better use.
My goodness, was this supposed to be reassuring to us, don't worry Israel won't attack Iran now, but only after a year and only after consulting the next administration.
Oh good show, I guess the next administration is perfectly OK with having their international interests totally jeopardized, their sea routes totally disrupted, Europe and Asia shrugging their shoulders and saying, whatyawant.
I guess McLoon and McWeather Vane Obama are OK with the dollar diving to $2.50 per euro. I know some people will be happy. Hey, it will dilute our massive trillion dollar international debt. Hey, maybe we'll get more tourists coming down. Let's build a few high speed trains and we'll convert a few more homesteads to nice, cozy B and Bs.
sure, it will all work out.
Russia, China, India and Europe will work out, that is.
They will start pursuing independent fossil fuel treaties, becoz at $145, tankers are going full, nobody wanna buy the stuff and some places are even thinking of cutting production. Why produce if it is going nowhere.
Bush could find a way to reduce commodities speculation right now, but even Hillary is too scared to say anything. Maybe she should call Brooksley Born and have a little coffee chat together, something might come of it. Google Brooksley Born if ya wanna try and solve the humongous oil prices, but don't count on her, she is timid as a mouse. Read her speech to the ABA.
But about Iran, try and make peace. Embassies, ambassadors and yadda yadda. Richard Haas showed some initiative, then he chickened out. Israelis and Bushies felt umbraged like, why should we let go. Huh, maybe becoz that's the only way ya will win, is that a good reason, folks. Gosh.
Any chance we can get Mofaz, Olmert and the whole bunch of right wings to stop squalling about iran? Any chance at all? Can we at least keep trying.
Israel won't strike ...certainly not now...due to political and militay reasons...Israel is experiencing a honeymoon with the EU...that would certainly come to an end...and the US public and even this administartion is not looking for yet another war or a wider war in the Middle East. It's doubtful a military strike would achieve it's goal...in any event, I disagree with the author...there will be changes afoot in Iran's leadership in the coming year...positive ones...instead of all the stressing over Iran...the military should be working on a gameplan to get the crazy settlers out of the West Bank and now that even Peres has admitted that Abbas is useless as a partner in peace...free Marwan Barghouti
Precisely. And, in my lexicon, this is called barbarism.
That is also why the countries of Asia are calling for the establishment of an Asian NATO. So that they can respond to barbarism with barbarism.
However, I don't myself subscribe to your view of History, nor do the best historians and historians of science, from Ibn Khaldun to Arnold Toynbee to Niall Ferguson to Howard Zinn, and from Kepler to Jacob Bronowski to Peter Turchin. These scholars insist that history does not quite repeat itself; they demonstrate that humanity learns, albeit slowly, from the past mistakes their ancestors made reacting to the long waves of historical dynamics. This is why Bronowski, taking his cue from the title of Darwin's work about "The Descent of Man", chose to name his opus on the progress in science and technology made by humanity "The Ascent of Man".
The USA is a superpower. It is the only super power in the World at the present time. To maintain its preeminence it must tend to its interests around the world. It has economical interests in almost every place around the earth that it needs to safeguard and further help them grow. It has the condescending attitude of putting a moral label to justify its actions when it really does not need to. Claiming that it invaded Iraq to bring democracy might not be the initial reason. The reason was that a dictator there threatened its interests in that vital region. Many neighbors of Iraq felt threatened also and actively supported the removal of that regime. The empires of the past never bothered to morally justify their actions. Have you ever heard a Roman Emperor justify on a moral basis his occupation of any of the countries he ruled? The Muslims,both Arab and Turks, gave the spread of Islam as a reason for establishing their empires, but that is equivalent to saying that they did it because they could. The real reason off course, is the greed for wealth and power.
Both the Israeli and American establishments are sick and barbaric enough to attack Iran.
But, yes, there is always a chance that reason will prevail.
But would any body be crazy enough to count on YOU, MOSSI, to make a contribution that helps reason prevail? Your long-winded rant does not allow one to conlude that you can be counted on to be reasonable yourself.
US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.
Just imagine if democracy starts to flourish in ME. Would the Egyptians want to have a puppet in charge who is first loyal and dependent to US than his own fellow countrymen?
Would the Saudis with the largest oil reserve in the world as well as being the most oil producing country in the world but with its most population being blow poverty line, want their ruler who looks to US for protection and survival rather than his own people, in charge? The examples are endless. The US flourishes in containing democracy and putting caps on how much each country can advance both technologically and democratically.
The US is looking for dependency on it and has absolutely no tolerance for independence. That is why Iranian people are isolated to these extents nowadays. I am not a big fan of the currents Iranian gov at this time but I absolutely adore President ahmadinejad and the leader for not being either intimidated nor influenced by any outside country. Iran, just forget about its natural resources for a moment, has unlimitted assets in Persian minds. The Persian minds are just incomparable. However, it is sad to see it being utilized outside. They build countrys and make revolutionary advances in science all to benefit non-Iranians.
All said and done, Iran has been there for thousands of years and will be there for as long as there is one reading history about the human civilization, as strong as ever,. Needless to mention, any power that is void of just causes and justice is not being favored by the the history of mankind
The Israelis will do what they choose with or without US approval. They have done so countless times in the past and present.
Indeed, the Israelis have attacked and murdered US sailors in the past; surely this was not done with the approval of the US.
For you younger people, the most obvious and best documented Israeli murder of US military personnel took place during the attack by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on the USS Liberty. This attack resulted in the deaths of 34 US sailors plus over 170 other US casualties.
The Israelis attempted to disclaim this murder of US sailors and other US military as a mistake.
The US Navy and US State Dept. all concluded that the murder was premeditated and deliberate.
Nevertheless, the Israelis never confessed except to the extent of paying millions to cover reparations to the US government and compensation for the families of the victims (of course, no sweat off their noses - they simply gave back some of our US tax dollars).
How stupid, ignorant, and immoral to have supported this nonsense of this failed state that was doomed from the beginning. Thank you Mr. Truman.
It is not too late to relocate the Jewish people to the US as should have been done prior to and after WWII.
Think of the millions of lives that could have been saved and the billions and billions of dollars that could have been used for the good of people instead of destruction. Think of the talent that we turned from our shores. How stupid and immoral was that?
Bring the Jewish people here to the US. It is the least expensive and most humanitarian path open to solving the problems brought about by silly American and British politicians long since dead.
(Of course, the Bushes and Cheneys are not about to allow humanitarian interests interfering with stealing the national treasure. Again, dead US military and the waste of US national treasure is no sweat off George's nose - we, the American people are paying that bill. George and Dick are making Truman seem like a statesman.
Which brings me to a disgusting, salivating, and rabid John McCain.... but that is a story for another time.)
And so it seems from Mr. Melman's article that Israel's survival depends on the whims and self-interests of the USA!
Amazingly, America can't see the Arab stranglehold on their economy, and they'll be offering Israel up as the sacrificial lamb to keep their economy artificially propped up with Arab money.
Right now, America's total worth is $18 trillion. But Saudi alone is making a net profit of nearly $2 trillion a year from oil.
Until the USA decides to invest heavily in alternative fuel sources, they'll be under the thumbs of the oil sheikhs who are currently buying up Wall Street and blocks of property and land in America.
Is this the US that fought the Nazi Germany in ww2? In first thought I wanted to say the US is shadow of herself, in second thought the war in Europe in ww2 was the war of the white man about who will control Europe and not the nonsense talks like democracy, freedom and so on and on and on. Who care of Jews? Holocaust was there. Holocaust is here. I don't think that the Jews learned the lessons.
it seems , at least for me, that there is a loss when we refer to the Hezbolah confrontation in Lebanon as " The Second Lebanon War", It would be much more meaningfull if refered as = "The Second Confrontation in Lebanon". Neurolinguistically more inductive.
>> If the U.S. doesn't approve an Israeli military operation, Israel will not attack Iran. Full stop. /// Ah, right. And if you're wrong - nobody will remember.
Tom Pitt, it is ludicrous to think Iran purchased nuclear weapons from anyone. Especialy not from Pakistan or India who don't have enough to spare. Furthermore North Korea has no ICBM's at all, how would they sell what they do not possess. I would stop short of saying you are an imbecile or a nieve conspiracy theorist, I don't want to through out redicilous accusations over a medium at which you have no ability to defend such a moronic statement.
Where is the US's sense of duty to spread democracy, as it did with Iraq, when it comes to Zimbabwe, Sudan, China, and countless other countries that violate human rights. As long as there's oil in the middle east, it's in the US's interest to do whatever it takes to keep the supply lines open and prices down. Don't buy this garbage about freedom.
Israel and US attack Iran civilian nuclear facilitis is sucide cause Iran have already developed 300 plus tactical nuclear weapons and the yield of tactical nulcear weapons is 40 kilitons. Iran bought 400 plus tacital nuclear weapons from Russia, China, India and Pakistan. Iran also bought 100 plus ICBM to Russia, China and Norht Korea. Iran is major power now. Iran can burn and destroy all U.S. military base in the middle east, whole Israel, New York City, London, Washington DC, Paris, Rome, Brussel, Berlin and etc.
I believe you contradict yourself Mr. Melman when saying that "Israel won't move without U.S. approval" while maintaining that "Israel launched its combat campaigns [...] after realizing or understanding that the U.S. [...] turn a blind eye." I beg your pardon Mr. Melman, but turning a blind eye is hardly a form of approval. Just because the Bush administration perilously turned a blind eye to, as you call it, the Second Lebanon War, doesn't mean they approved it. It means that they didn't have the chutzpah to criticize Israel's deleterious judgment in killing 1,191 Lebanese civilians.
Looking at their foreign policy record regarding intimate allies (i.e. Pakistan), it's easy to see that the administration almost-never criticizes and almost-always turns a blind eye, even when they don't approve of what their fellow ally is doing. When then-President Pervez Musharraf gratuitously sacked his Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and sixty other justices, President Bush and his officials, heavy supporters of the Musharraf regime for their “help” with the “War on Terror,” remained silent and appeared ignorant to the undemocratic atrocity that had just taken place. He remained silent not because he ‘approved’ of what Mr. Musharraf was doing, but because he is a political coward who chose to maintain his ties with the avaricious militant rather than stand up for a necessary democracy on the verge of falling into shambles.
PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions for PostGlobal to Lauren Keane, its editor and producer.
All Comments (28)
1. What is "U.S Voice" ?
U.S. has 2 "superpower" voices.
Dick Cheney's voice (Halliburton interests) and Robert Gates voice (the sane).
Israel can get the approval by the old bible command ("choose your preferred Rabbi", עשה לך רב)
And your statement, that "No decision to attack Iran has been made in Israel" is simply wrong.
2. Since the moment Ehud Barak and Olmert became suspected taking so much bribe (Olmert, from Mr. Talansy and some others. Barak, from Hamas (via Martin Schlaf and the "gass deal") + from Aharon Frenkel, they got the decision to attack Iran in order to divert the attention from them.
Dick Cheney & Halliburton welcome it. But Robert Gates is there to defense U.S (and Israel) from its own evil inclination.
Cheers,
Nikolay
August 18, 2008 10:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on August 18, 2008 10:16
I agree. I think Israel's recent military exercise was not a message to Iran, rather it was a message to the U.S government and to the Europeans and to the 5+1 group. Israel wanted to tell them if you don't want to see a military confrontation with Iran by Israel, which you know what would be the concequences for the world economy and so on, in your next talks to Iran and in your next decision regarding Iran do something serious. Also, Israel knows it cannot do that without the help of the U.S. government. Israel needs the U.S approval not just as its major ally, but also technically and militarly, regarding the Iran situation and its nuclear sites and its strategic depth, Israel would not be able to attack Iran successfully.Moreover, Israel knows Iran would retaliate by its all means including using its allies in Lebenon.
In general, I don't see the war as the most possible thing between the U.S, or Isreal, and Iran. I think the $400 million plan that Mr. Hersh reports could be as a part of a wider plan to increase pressure on Iran just like the economic sanctions. Therefore, it could be regarded as a measure to prevent the war not as a sign of war. After all, the U.S. is not whatsoover in a position to go to another war that would be much more difficult than the current two ones. I think the moderate groups in the Iranian government, especially among the conservative camp, have recently begun to talk publickly about making a positive approach toward the 5+1 group's new proposal and responding to the pressure from them. All these things have made a peacfull agreement more likely in near future.
July 16, 2008 6:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 16, 2008 18:23
Israel has had nukes for a long time.
They fight for their very existence , nonetheless , conventionally , in hand to hand combat with multiple non - nuclear adversaries.
If these adversaries win one war , Israel likely loses its existence.
If its adversaries had nukes ,and Israel did not , they would instantly use them to destroy Israel.
Does anybody , friend or foe , disagree with any of this?
But Israels nukes "destabilize" the region?
They should forgoe them , so their enemies can become emboldened?
Is anyone proposing this really serious?
Do they actually believe what they are saying?
Why not suggest that at the same time the Israelis strip off their underwear and bend over?
Are the Saudi's , Abu Dabi , the UAE ,Egypt, Kuwait afraid of Israeli nukes?
I think not.
In fact , most "secretly" prefer the Israelis have them , because their own existence is threatened by Israels adversaries as well.
All this talk is stupid.
If the Israelis believe that Iranian nukes are near term , they will attack -
Sure , they will court and savor U.S. support.
But either way , they will attack.
THERE IS NO FREAKIN CHOICE.
If they believe Iranian nukes are far off , they will wait , and use every alternate means to deter progress , as well as defer to U.S. preferences.
This is not an Iranian-Israeli issue.
On a local level , yes.
But anyone who doesn't understand the longer term , longer range scenario of "nuts with nukes"
is a waste of time to discourse with.
July 10, 2008 8:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 10, 2008 20:29
It appears, semi-offical, that Israel was not given the green light to attack:
http://usiranalliance.org/expert-us-wont-allow-israel-to-attack-iran
July 8, 2008 11:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 8, 2008 11:46
Just for the historical record, Yossi Melman is wrong about June 1967. Lyndon Johnson neither sanctioned nor turned a blind eye to the Israeli pre-emptive attack. He had told Israel not to attack alone, and was much chagrined when they did so.
July 7, 2008 8:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 7, 2008 08:03
When will you write about WAR PROFITEERING by political insiders?
When will you follow the money trail and name the names of the
individuals and corporations now consolidating wealth and power
through endless war? WAR PROFITEERING OLIGARCHY KILLS DEMOCRACY!
July 7, 2008 12:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 7, 2008 00:54
When will you write about WAR PROFITEERING by political insiders?
When will you follow the money trail and name the names of the
individuals and corporations now consolidating wealth and power
through endless war? WAR PROFITEERING OLIGARCHY KILLS DEMOCRACY!
July 7, 2008 12:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 7, 2008 00:52
Ibrahim Mahfouz:
Farnaz says:
“US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.”
Ali Sina, another Persian living in Canada, says the following:
“Bush presses for democracy in Islamic countries as if democracy is panacea. Democracy is however a double edge sword. Democracy without responsibility can lead to tyranny. There is nothing more dangerous than putting the power in the hands of a people who are not responsible.
_________________
I guess this is true if you look at what happened with American democracy this century. On the other hand, what is democratic about allowing one person or party to decide who are the "people who are not responsible"?
Responsibility like "God's standards" is in the eye of the beholder. When we let someone or some party dictate "God's standards" or who is responsible and who is not, there is no longer democracy.
Democracy, like religious tolerance, is an alien concept to the closed mind of the religious and political extremist.
July 5, 2008 6:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 18:31
1. As long as the Jewish lobby holds American Leadership by their balls, they can and will do anything they like. How come, none of the American leaders, never raised the question of Isreal's own nuclear weapons.
2. Israeli nuclear weapons are as destabilizing and a threat to the region as that of any other country.
3. If Iran is an "Axis of Evil" for supporting hezbollah, what category should US be in, because it supported Mujahideens of Afghanistan against the USSR.
4. Iran, even if they got some weapon, do you think they will have the balls to fire them at any country, themselves or through any terrorists. I remember, the same type of things were said about India and Pakistan when they tested their weapons. It was said that they are irresponsible, don't know what they are doing, but where are we now- US is pushing for a Nuclear Deal with India.
July 5, 2008 5:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 17:44
It would be a dire mistake for Israel to attack Iran before our presidential election. Interfering in our political process would lead to a serious loss of US support for Israel. Until Israel is willing to bring their own illegal nuclear program into the discussion, there will be no diplomatic solution possible. Couple this with the Bush/McCain policy of refusing talks with Iran and the cards are stacked in favor of war. Although Iran and Israel have serious problems to iron out, they are their prolems and not the US's. The United States needs to focus on rooting out Al Qaeda in Pakistan and until they do, Israel's campaign against Iran serves as distraction that is seriously threatening our own security.
July 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 13:14
Farnaz says:
“US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.”
Ali Sina, another Persian living in Canada, says the following:
“Bush presses for democracy in Islamic countries as if democracy is panacea. Democracy is however a double edge sword. Democracy without responsibility can lead to tyranny. There is nothing more dangerous than putting the power in the hands of a people who are not responsible.
Are other Islamic countries ready for democracy? If complete free elections are held today, and people are allowed to choose their own candidates, Osama Bin Laden would probably be elected as the president in several Islamic countries. As for Iraq , although the removal of Saddam was a gain for the world, the future of the Iraqis is less certain.”
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm
(Palestinians Have Spoken)
July 5, 2008 1:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 13:08
Observer:
"The reason was that a dictator there threatened its interests in that vital region. Many neighbors of Iraq felt threatened also and actively supported the removal of that regime." End of quote.
The Baker-hamilton report does not lend any credibility to your assessments here. Saddam never threatened the US interests. It actually responded positively to US wishes and invaded Iran. The US kept supplying Iraq with arms directly and indirectly through its proxies plus the most important tool of victory in a war and that is intelligence to keep the war going for eight long years to bleed the two nations to death. the Iranians came eventually as winners and learned the most important lesson a country needs to learn and know and that is if one is going anywhere it should and will go on his own. dependency equals uncertainty. And regarding the kuwait invasion, saddam received the green light from the US when the US Ambassador told Saddam flatly that the US had no objections and was neutral.
Further, your view on responsibilities imposed on a superpower is void of any rational anyone can use.Multiply the US weapons and forces as many times as you wish and if it is void of any just causes and justifications when embarking on adventures overseas, the only ones benefitting would be, no offense or ill wishes intended since this applys to everyone, the body bags manufacturers.
You are out of touch here and is best to leave, no offense intended, these spaces for better use.
July 5, 2008 11:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 11:13
My goodness, was this supposed to be reassuring to us, don't worry Israel won't attack Iran now, but only after a year and only after consulting the next administration.
Oh good show, I guess the next administration is perfectly OK with having their international interests totally jeopardized, their sea routes totally disrupted, Europe and Asia shrugging their shoulders and saying, whatyawant.
I guess McLoon and McWeather Vane Obama are OK with the dollar diving to $2.50 per euro. I know some people will be happy. Hey, it will dilute our massive trillion dollar international debt. Hey, maybe we'll get more tourists coming down. Let's build a few high speed trains and we'll convert a few more homesteads to nice, cozy B and Bs.
sure, it will all work out.
Russia, China, India and Europe will work out, that is.
They will start pursuing independent fossil fuel treaties, becoz at $145, tankers are going full, nobody wanna buy the stuff and some places are even thinking of cutting production. Why produce if it is going nowhere.
Bush could find a way to reduce commodities speculation right now, but even Hillary is too scared to say anything. Maybe she should call Brooksley Born and have a little coffee chat together, something might come of it. Google Brooksley Born if ya wanna try and solve the humongous oil prices, but don't count on her, she is timid as a mouse. Read her speech to the ABA.
But about Iran, try and make peace. Embassies, ambassadors and yadda yadda. Richard Haas showed some initiative, then he chickened out. Israelis and Bushies felt umbraged like, why should we let go. Huh, maybe becoz that's the only way ya will win, is that a good reason, folks. Gosh.
Any chance we can get Mofaz, Olmert and the whole bunch of right wings to stop squalling about iran? Any chance at all? Can we at least keep trying.
MinnieB9
July 5, 2008 10:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 10:56
Israel won't strike ...certainly not now...due to political and militay reasons...Israel is experiencing a honeymoon with the EU...that would certainly come to an end...and the US public and even this administartion is not looking for yet another war or a wider war in the Middle East. It's doubtful a military strike would achieve it's goal...in any event, I disagree with the author...there will be changes afoot in Iran's leadership in the coming year...positive ones...instead of all the stressing over Iran...the military should be working on a gameplan to get the crazy settlers out of the West Bank and now that even Peres has admitted that Abbas is useless as a partner in peace...free Marwan Barghouti
July 5, 2008 10:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 10:32
To OBSERVER,
Precisely. And, in my lexicon, this is called barbarism.
That is also why the countries of Asia are calling for the establishment of an Asian NATO. So that they can respond to barbarism with barbarism.
However, I don't myself subscribe to your view of History, nor do the best historians and historians of science, from Ibn Khaldun to Arnold Toynbee to Niall Ferguson to Howard Zinn, and from Kepler to Jacob Bronowski to Peter Turchin. These scholars insist that history does not quite repeat itself; they demonstrate that humanity learns, albeit slowly, from the past mistakes their ancestors made reacting to the long waves of historical dynamics. This is why Bronowski, taking his cue from the title of Darwin's work about "The Descent of Man", chose to name his opus on the progress in science and technology made by humanity "The Ascent of Man".
July 5, 2008 3:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 5, 2008 03:54
The USA is a superpower. It is the only super power in the World at the present time. To maintain its preeminence it must tend to its interests around the world. It has economical interests in almost every place around the earth that it needs to safeguard and further help them grow. It has the condescending attitude of putting a moral label to justify its actions when it really does not need to. Claiming that it invaded Iraq to bring democracy might not be the initial reason. The reason was that a dictator there threatened its interests in that vital region. Many neighbors of Iraq felt threatened also and actively supported the removal of that regime. The empires of the past never bothered to morally justify their actions. Have you ever heard a Roman Emperor justify on a moral basis his occupation of any of the countries he ruled? The Muslims,both Arab and Turks, gave the spread of Islam as a reason for establishing their empires, but that is equivalent to saying that they did it because they could. The real reason off course, is the greed for wealth and power.
July 4, 2008 11:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 4, 2008 23:13
Both the Israeli and American establishments are sick and barbaric enough to attack Iran.
But, yes, there is always a chance that reason will prevail.
But would any body be crazy enough to count on YOU, MOSSI, to make a contribution that helps reason prevail? Your long-winded rant does not allow one to conlude that you can be counted on to be reasonable yourself.
July 4, 2008 7:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 4, 2008 19:36
Payam Jaan:
US is number one enemy of democracy in the world.
Indeed, the all the buzz about democracy and freedom is just as worthy as what exits the rear end of a duck.
Just imagine if democracy starts to flourish in ME. Would the Egyptians want to have a puppet in charge who is first loyal and dependent to US than his own fellow countrymen?
Would the Saudis with the largest oil reserve in the world as well as being the most oil producing country in the world but with its most population being blow poverty line, want their ruler who looks to US for protection and survival rather than his own people, in charge? The examples are endless. The US flourishes in containing democracy and putting caps on how much each country can advance both technologically and democratically.
The US is looking for dependency on it and has absolutely no tolerance for independence. That is why Iranian people are isolated to these extents nowadays. I am not a big fan of the currents Iranian gov at this time but I absolutely adore President ahmadinejad and the leader for not being either intimidated nor influenced by any outside country. Iran, just forget about its natural resources for a moment, has unlimitted assets in Persian minds. The Persian minds are just incomparable. However, it is sad to see it being utilized outside. They build countrys and make revolutionary advances in science all to benefit non-Iranians.
All said and done, Iran has been there for thousands of years and will be there for as long as there is one reading history about the human civilization, as strong as ever,. Needless to mention, any power that is void of just causes and justice is not being favored by the the history of mankind
July 4, 2008 3:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 4, 2008 15:38
The Israelis will do what they choose with or without US approval. They have done so countless times in the past and present.
Indeed, the Israelis have attacked and murdered US sailors in the past; surely this was not done with the approval of the US.
For you younger people, the most obvious and best documented Israeli murder of US military personnel took place during the attack by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on the USS Liberty. This attack resulted in the deaths of 34 US sailors plus over 170 other US casualties.
The Israelis attempted to disclaim this murder of US sailors and other US military as a mistake.
The US Navy and US State Dept. all concluded that the murder was premeditated and deliberate.
Nevertheless, the Israelis never confessed except to the extent of paying millions to cover reparations to the US government and compensation for the families of the victims (of course, no sweat off their noses - they simply gave back some of our US tax dollars).
How stupid, ignorant, and immoral to have supported this nonsense of this failed state that was doomed from the beginning. Thank you Mr. Truman.
It is not too late to relocate the Jewish people to the US as should have been done prior to and after WWII.
Think of the millions of lives that could have been saved and the billions and billions of dollars that could have been used for the good of people instead of destruction. Think of the talent that we turned from our shores. How stupid and immoral was that?
Bring the Jewish people here to the US. It is the least expensive and most humanitarian path open to solving the problems brought about by silly American and British politicians long since dead.
(Of course, the Bushes and Cheneys are not about to allow humanitarian interests interfering with stealing the national treasure. Again, dead US military and the waste of US national treasure is no sweat off George's nose - we, the American people are paying that bill. George and Dick are making Truman seem like a statesman.
Which brings me to a disgusting, salivating, and rabid John McCain.... but that is a story for another time.)
PC
July 3, 2008 11:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 23:11
And so it seems from Mr. Melman's article that Israel's survival depends on the whims and self-interests of the USA!
Amazingly, America can't see the Arab stranglehold on their economy, and they'll be offering Israel up as the sacrificial lamb to keep their economy artificially propped up with Arab money.
Right now, America's total worth is $18 trillion. But Saudi alone is making a net profit of nearly $2 trillion a year from oil.
Until the USA decides to invest heavily in alternative fuel sources, they'll be under the thumbs of the oil sheikhs who are currently buying up Wall Street and blocks of property and land in America.
July 3, 2008 10:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 10:49
Exellent reasoning and fair style of telling truth.
July 3, 2008 9:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 09:41
Is this the US that fought the Nazi Germany in ww2? In first thought I wanted to say the US is shadow of herself, in second thought the war in Europe in ww2 was the war of the white man about who will control Europe and not the nonsense talks like democracy, freedom and so on and on and on. Who care of Jews? Holocaust was there. Holocaust is here. I don't think that the Jews learned the lessons.
July 3, 2008 9:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 09:03
it seems , at least for me, that there is a loss when we refer to the Hezbolah confrontation in Lebanon as " The Second Lebanon War", It would be much more meaningfull if refered as = "The Second Confrontation in Lebanon". Neurolinguistically more inductive.
July 3, 2008 8:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 08:38
>> If the U.S. doesn't approve an Israeli military operation, Israel will not attack Iran. Full stop. /// Ah, right. And if you're wrong - nobody will remember.
July 3, 2008 4:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 3, 2008 04:48
Tom Pitt, it is ludicrous to think Iran purchased nuclear weapons from anyone. Especialy not from Pakistan or India who don't have enough to spare. Furthermore North Korea has no ICBM's at all, how would they sell what they do not possess. I would stop short of saying you are an imbecile or a nieve conspiracy theorist, I don't want to through out redicilous accusations over a medium at which you have no ability to defend such a moronic statement.
July 2, 2008 10:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 2, 2008 22:45
Where is the US's sense of duty to spread democracy, as it did with Iraq, when it comes to Zimbabwe, Sudan, China, and countless other countries that violate human rights. As long as there's oil in the middle east, it's in the US's interest to do whatever it takes to keep the supply lines open and prices down. Don't buy this garbage about freedom.
July 2, 2008 10:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 2, 2008 22:33
Israel and US attack Iran civilian nuclear facilitis is sucide cause Iran have already developed 300 plus tactical nuclear weapons and the yield of tactical nulcear weapons is 40 kilitons. Iran bought 400 plus tacital nuclear weapons from Russia, China, India and Pakistan. Iran also bought 100 plus ICBM to Russia, China and Norht Korea. Iran is major power now. Iran can burn and destroy all U.S. military base in the middle east, whole Israel, New York City, London, Washington DC, Paris, Rome, Brussel, Berlin and etc.
July 2, 2008 7:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 2, 2008 19:44
I believe you contradict yourself Mr. Melman when saying that "Israel won't move without U.S. approval" while maintaining that "Israel launched its combat campaigns [...] after realizing or understanding that the U.S. [...] turn a blind eye." I beg your pardon Mr. Melman, but turning a blind eye is hardly a form of approval. Just because the Bush administration perilously turned a blind eye to, as you call it, the Second Lebanon War, doesn't mean they approved it. It means that they didn't have the chutzpah to criticize Israel's deleterious judgment in killing 1,191 Lebanese civilians.
Looking at their foreign policy record regarding intimate allies (i.e. Pakistan), it's easy to see that the administration almost-never criticizes and almost-always turns a blind eye, even when they don't approve of what their fellow ally is doing. When then-President Pervez Musharraf gratuitously sacked his Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and sixty other justices, President Bush and his officials, heavy supporters of the Musharraf regime for their “help” with the “War on Terror,” remained silent and appeared ignorant to the undemocratic atrocity that had just taken place. He remained silent not because he ‘approved’ of what Mr. Musharraf was doing, but because he is a political coward who chose to maintain his ties with the avaricious militant rather than stand up for a necessary democracy on the verge of falling into shambles.
July 2, 2008 5:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 2, 2008 17:53