Yossi Melman is a senior commentator for the Israeli daily Haaretz. He specializes in intelligence, security, terrorism and strategic issues. An author of seven books on these topics, his most recent book, The Nuclear Sphinx of Tehran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the State of Iran was published recently by Carroll & Graf.
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Yossi Melman
Tel Aviv, Israel
Yossi Melman is a senior commentator for the Israeli daily Haaretz. He specializes in intelligence, security, terrorism and strategic issues. An author of seven books on these topics, his most recent book, The Nuclear Sphinx of Tehran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the State of Iran was published recently by Carroll & Graf.
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How was the Apartheid israel established in 1947/8? Was Palestine a land withou people in 1948?
Where are the 80% of the population of PAlestine live now after it was ethnically cleanesed by jewish terrorist gangs such as Hgahnah,Irgun,Palmah and Irgun??
Why did these jewish terror gangs destroy over 600 PAlestinian towns and village from which the PAlestinians were ethnically cleanesed in 1947/8?
Read jewish hsitorians such Ilan Pappe,Shabtai Teveth,Beni Morris on jewih ethnic cleanesing of Palestinians.
More importantly see WWW.PALNDS.ORG for full coverage of the question of Palestine.
Its very interesting to analyze the selection of featured comments, indeed goes to show the neutrality out here!! What else should I have expected...
I am simply amazed at how many people in the West think that a peaceful solution to Israel is based on the realities and practical assesssment by Palestinians!! Well, the same was forgotten at the time of creation of Israel but it is being imposed upon Palestinans so stongly for the last 60 years!!
If any one thinks that Hamas accepting Israel will result in peace for Israel, its simply out of question. Israel and in particular its allies have to understand the whole thought process of Palestinians as well as Muslims throughout the world. They will never accept Israel unless they are convinced of its justification for its creation. For that to happen, you need to have a global neutral media where the case is strongly advocated against debates from its opponents. A sustained process of such debates against its enemies even those who want to wipe it off the face will earn respect and knowledge about the issue. It will separate facts from opinions and give each individual whether pro-Israeli or anti-Israel a chance to develop his / her own opinion.
I hope the above advice is pursued otherwise we will all live in our brain washed thoughts (for both sides of the conflict) forever!!
washingtonpost.com > World > Middle East Your Comments On...
On Mideast Trip, Bush Emphasizes Commitment to Peace Deal
SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt, May 17 -- President Bush sought to assure Arabs on Saturday that he is committed to securing an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal by the end of the year, as he arrived at this Red Sea resort for a quick round of consultations with key allies.
- By Michael Abramowitz
Commentsrw1231 wrote:

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- Yea, I am the AMEN, and I am the glory called god, for I am god, and I dwell eternally forever, and ever true, for I shall live eternal of myself, through my (god) eternal true son, who is called Jesus christ, forever.
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--------- The Judgment of The Nations -------------
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Part 1 w/ 138 verses--------------All nations
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1 Many people, in the earth, they have desired, to understand, and to know, that which cometh upon the earth, as being forever seen.
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2 And, I (god) do say, that most surely, in those seen nations, who hate my great, eternal, true name. As found, as being Jesus christ, as being, forever true,
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3 They are seen, unto me forever. As being forever true, in satanism forever sure. And, they are seen, as being death unto me forever. And, they are, simply, unrepentifully and unjustly, in unrepentifulness,
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4 As being forever truly found, as being faithfully forever true, of themselves, as forever seen. In being against, all that I am, as I am god, as forever seen and true.
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5 And, those beguiled, true nations. They are seen unto me, as being forever true. As being non christian nations, forever. And those nations (not speaking of Israel),
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6 They shall see vexation of spirit and suffering and great end time famine, and great pestilence, and great war, forever.
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7 Yet, they shall see many other things, from their personal, true treasures. That are found in their own, desired, damminly true treasures,
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8 That are treasures in death forever. That are called, their desired true death, in Satanism, as being forever seen and forever sought, by the damned ones, forever.
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9 And, those beastly true nations, they are found unto me, in death, as being forever seen. And, they are seen, unto me forever. As forever seen, as satan, forever, and they are seen and felt, unto me,
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10 As their desired and most true death, as forever true. And, they are considered of me, forever. To be as dead as satan is dead, unto me, forever,
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11 And, they, the damned in satan himself, forever. They are seen and found, in utter true shame and utter true contempt, as being forever seen. And they are seen, of eternal living forever, true damnation,
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12 And they do worship, as faithfully forever true, within themselves, forever, eternal living forever, true death. As found, given unto themselves, from satan himself, as being forever true.
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13 And, this earth, it is found, fallen in, and, unto satan himself. As satan, has became, as a false idol god, unto the damned forever. And it is found, and seen,
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14 By the damned, as being forever true, of the damned ones, forever. As they, the damned in satanism, as being forever seen by me forever.
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15 That they do choose satan, as satan being their false idol god, as forever true of themselves. As they give of themselves,
forever, unto satan, forever.
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16 And this earth, as found, unto satan himself, as being forever seen in satan true death, as being forever sure, in death, as being forever true.
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17 Then, those non christian true nations of the earth, as they are seen, as being: “Fallen, unrepentiful, ungodly true nations of the earth“,
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18 And those nations, they are found by me, in death, as being forever seen. And they shall be perplexed with signs following, For those nations,
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19 They are beastly by human fallen nature, forever. And they do refuse, unjustly, as forever true, to ever know me (god), as forever seen, as I am their true god, forever.
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20 And, again, those beastly eternal, damminly true nations, in death forever. As found, unto satan, as being forever seen. If, they shall refuse, to know my son, who called christ, as their savior, forever,
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21 And, who (christ Jesus) is with my heavenly true salvation, that I have created, from my (god) own, eternal, true Love. As being forever seen, in me, as forever true.
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22 And that salvation, it is given of me, for all fallen true men, forever. And that salvation, that is called christ Jesus. It is given, that repentiful true men, may arise and cleanse themselves, by calling on the name of god,
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23 As that name, is found. As my eternal, living forever, true son. And, who is called, “Jesus Christ”. As being forever seen, of myself, as forever truly seen.
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24 If, those non christian-unrepentiful true nations, who hate me, forever. Shall not repent in christ Jesus, forever.
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25 Then, those beguiled in satan, true nations. They are called death. And those, beguiled, most true nations, they shall all be clean dissolved, by me forever, or unto they accept and repent, by receiving christ, forever,
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26 As christ Jesus, being their personal, living forever, true savior. And who is from me (god), as being forever faithfully forever true, with my heavenly true salvation,
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27 That is found, given of me (god), as eternally forever and ever true, of me, forever. And it is true, for all of given true eternity, forever.
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28 Many antichrist, true nations, they are found unto me forever. In their own, personal, true choices, found in life and death.
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29 And those choices, they are found, unto me, as being forever true, and it is true, by their own, eternal, living forever, true hands,
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30 And it is true, that they, either chose christ Jesus, for the heavenly true salvation, that is given of me (god), as being forever seen.
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31 Or they chose not to receive christ Jesus, forever. And, which is seen, in being forever certain, of themselves, unto me, forever.
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32 And those nations, if they shall reject christ Jesus, forever. Then they shall die unto me forever,
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33 Then, my, great, living eternal, given and being given, righteous, holy true judgments. They shall be found of me forever, as given by me forever,
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34 As given of me as being forever seen in judgment forever. And it is a fiery given judgment of me (god), that is recompense, that is called granted true death, forever,
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35 And that true death, it shall be found given of me, upon and unto those blasphemous eternal true nations, that are called satan forever,
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36 And who are seen. As being, blasphemous eternal true nations of death, forever,
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37 And, granted true death, it is found, given of me, as being forever seen. As, given by me forever, unto those satan nations. As they are found by me forever, in satan forever. And those nations, they are,
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38 Found unto me, forever. As being forever certain, in satan forever. And they are found, unto me. As being forever true, as being found, as being truly beastly.
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39 And, they are seen unto me forever. As being, a anti god, true image, unto me. As being faithfully forever seen, in themselves. As their desired true death, as found in satan, forever.
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40 And, those non christian nations, as found in their death, as being forever seen true death. As found, as being. A fallen beastly stone image, of given, unrepentiful to receive god, beastly forever, true seen sin,
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41 That seen sin, it is found unto me forever. In being unrepentifully forever true, in being against me. As a seen, true sinfulness, as being forever seen, and is seen, in them, that perish unto me in their satanism, forever.
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42 All beastly, eternal, true nations. They are found, unto me forever true. As being anti god and as being anti christ forever true nations of the earth forever,
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43 And those nations, they are found unto me, in satan. As being forever seen, in granted true death, as forever true.
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44 And, they are seen, unto me. As being, found in their desired and most true death. As true death in satan, is found, working within themselves,
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45 As being found, as truly being satanism, as being forever true of themselves forever, and, that work in satan that is found themselves, it is forever heard as being a blasphemous eternal image of death forever.
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46 And, they, the damned in satan forever, they are most surely heard, as being eternal true sin, as being forever true, in all that I am not as god forever.
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47 And, they shall die, unto me forever, as being forever true. In their desired, and most true death, as forever seen. That is working true death, that worketh against me forever.
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48 And, they are truly, forever seen, in death forever. And they are seen unto me forever. As being, eternally forever true. As satan true sin, as being eternally forever true sin, forever.
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49 And they are seen by me forever, as death, and they are in agreement with me forever, for that true death and they are in agreement with hell forever, for true death forever.
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50 And, in true death, they shall never awake, after that great judgments of eternal just judgments, has occurred, forever. And they shall never awake, again, to live, afterwards (after that great Judgment called life), and forever.
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51 In true death, the damned ones of this fallen, true earth, forever. They shall be casted by me, away from me, as being forever true,
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52 And they shall be casted into eternal hell fire, that burneth, as being forever seen, as god in judgment, forever. For I am, god in judgment, as being forever true,
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53 And I am true, unto all of the wicked ones of the earth forever, as I am forever seen and heard, in Jesus christ, as being forever seen.
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54 And, in hell, is their seen eternal true reward. That is called life,
that they have made unto themselves. As being forever seen. As a seen image, called death forever.
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55 And that image, as made by the damned ones, as being forever seen, by me forever true. It is called: “Wanted true death, for me (me is the word sinner), in satan forever,
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56 As I (I is the sinner person) am a found sinner, unto god, as being forever true of myself (myself is the word sinner), forever“.
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57 And, unto all sinners, who are found unto me, as being forever true, as found in satan (all true sinners), forever. They shall, be forever seen.
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58 And they shall be seen by me, as being faithfully forever seen, In that great eternal, and most mighty and true day. That is called god in judgment, unto satan, forever,
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59 And, those sinners in satan forever. They all, shall receive their seen true reward. That is called, hell fire, forever. And that reward, it is found,
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60 As given of me, unto them, in that great unending true day, that is most forever seen, as being seen, truly forever true. And that day, it is seen. As being most eternal,
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61 For I am most eternal, saith thy god, as being eternally forever and ever true. For I am eternal, and I live forever. And the forever, it is me (god), forever.
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62 In that day, that is glorious in me, forever. The damned, they shall pass back into the earth, in spiritual and physical, true death. As being forever seen, and, as being forever, eternally seen, in death, forever true.
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63 Therefore, that passing into eternal forever death. It shall be written by me (god), as being: “They the damned, they are written back into the earth forever, as they truly do desire, Unrepentiful true death, forever“.
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64 That death, it is desired by the damned ones, forever. And, it is desired by the damned forever. As being, true death, forever. And that true death,
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65 It is also seen, as being in satanism forever. And, it is seen, as being forever seen by me, forever. And it is found, in true death, unto me, forever .
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66 That death, it is from being found guilty in unrepentiful true trespasses and unrepentiful true sins, that are unrepentifully forever seen,
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67 As being against me (god), as being forever true. For those desired sins, are desired forever, by the damned, as being forever seen by me, forever.
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68 And, they are found unto me forever. As being against receiving my eternal son, who is called “Christ As Savior, Forever”.
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69 Eternal death, as found in the damned forever, it seen. As being, unholy and unrighteous, spiritual true works, that is found in satan’s true death, forever.
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70 And that death, in the damned forever. It is found, in satan, as being, forever seen, as true death, as forever true. And it is desired, as being faithfully forever seen, by the lost unto me forever.
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71 And that true death, in the damned, it is seen by me forever true. As being forever true, and, forever seen. And that death, it is seen, to be as satan is dead, forever.
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72 And satanism, seen true works, as found in their desired true death, as being forever seen by me forever. It is called true death, and those works of satan and of the beast, whom (beast is the word man), is called man, as forever seen.
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73 It is forever seen, and, is forever found, in satan, himself, as granted true death, from me, as being forever true death. And that true death, it is forever seen,
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74 As seen in the damned, as being forever true death, forever. And the damned, and, with satan himself, together, and with satan’s true kind, who (kind is all fallen angels) are called devils, they are all together, as seen and called: ’As being the beast”, forever.
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75 And they are found, unto me, as being forever certain. As being in satanism unto me, as being forever true of themselves, in the service of their faithful and true worship unto satan and to satan‘s kind, forever.
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76 And they are forever seen. And they are seen in death, forever. And, all ungodly, antichrist, true nations. As they are found by me, as forever sure, as being seen by me, in their, seen sin, forever.
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77 And they are found by me, forever. As being forever true, as being seen, in eternal true works, found in death forever. And, it is seen, as heavenly true death. As being forever certain and ever lasting, forever true.
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78 And, they the damned and all fallen true nations. They are found unto me forever, as being in satan forever. And they, are also found unto me forever,
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79 In unholy, and, in unrighteous physical true works, that are called, eternal true death, forever.
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80 Those unrepentiful true nations in satan forever. They are even found unto me, as found. In their manifesting, of: “Unrepentiful, true sinful true works“, That is called granted true death, forever.
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81 And granted true death forever. It is being found forever granted, to them, who are found in satanism, as being eternally forever true of themselves,
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82 As they are found unto me, in the service of satan. As being forever true of themselves forever.
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83 And, if they be found unto me forever, in satanism, as being eternally forever true of themselves, in satan‘s true death, as being forever seen. Then they shall die unto all that is me in christ Jesus,
forever.
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84 And, through the judgment of the nations, my eternal just judgments. They are given by me, through christ Jesus, forever true, unto all nations,
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85 who are all non christian nations of the earth forever. That are seen unto me forever. As being, in satanism, as being forever true and ever lasting forever, of themselves, forever.
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86 And I shall damn them all non christian nations forever, who are considered by me, as being, rejectful to me, true nations, forever. And, they shall die unto me, as being forever true of themselves, forever,
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87 And, in this judgment of the nations, as being forever seen, upon the unrepentiful forever seen and true, non christian nations, forever, who are judged,
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88 As they will never repent and receive christ Jesus my eternal true son, who is with life, that is called god, forever.
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89 Then any of those nations, who are found unto me, as being forever certain, as that nation or nations that will never repent and receive christ forever.
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90 Then that nation and or nations, they shall die unto me forever seen, as being forever true. As being forever eternally forever true. And, they are considered by me, as being forever certain,
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91 As themselves, in being dead unto me, as forever true, and, as being forever seen, in death, forever true. And, they shall be seen, unto me, as being forever certain, and, true forever, in their sin, as being forever seen.
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92 Therefore, end time judgment. It is given of me (god), and is found, of me (god), worthily, unto whom, end time judgments, are forever, righteously forever due, unto. And that judgment, it is forever truly seen.
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93 And all end time judgments, are called life and death, forever. Therefore, let all nations, chose me, or they shall die unto me forever,
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94 And that decision, it must be made quickly, saith thy eternal one, who is seen, and is called, the lord thy god, forever.
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95 In these true days, forever. All ungodly nations, they shall be judged by me forever. And I will hold them accountable, for the deeds that they do perform,
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96 As they do perform those deeds, against me, as being found by me, as being forever true of themselves. As they are found by me, in satanism forever.
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97 And, those, ungodly true deeds, as found, as being true toward me. As they themselves, are seen by me forever true. In that they do perform those deeds, unto me, as being forever true of themselves in satan forever.
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98 And those true deeds, they are seen. As being, in satan eternally forever true. And those ungodly blasphemous true deeds, they shall be recompense back,
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99 Unto themselves, as measured unto themselves, in true punishment, from me, as being forever true, of me forever certain.
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100 And, most certainly, measured true punishment, it is given to themselves, from me, as being forever seen true punishment. And that true punishment,
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101 It is seen, as being forever true, from me, as being forever and eternally seen, true punishment. That is called god forever,
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102 And that true punishment. That is called god forever. It is seen, and is called dead death, as being forever seen, and it is now, found on the earth, and in hell, forever.
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103 And that eternal, most true punishment, it is from me forever true. And it is seen, as being true in me forever. And it is, given most surely, unto themselves, as being forever seen, true judgment, forever,
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104 And that eternal ever lasting true punishment, it is called eternal dead death forever. And it is from me forever. And I, the lord of heaven and earth, forever,
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105 I the lord, I do hold all nations, accountable, for their seen sins. That they, do against all, that is me, as I am creation, as forever seen.
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106 And I, shall damn all non christian true nations of the earth forever, that will not receive Jesus christ, forever. And I will send a fire, from me, unto all of them, forever. And I will give death and dissolving and great punishment,
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107 Unto those devil nations, as they are found unto me, as being in satanism forever, as they are seen by me, forever. In their seen true sins, that is called: “I (I is the sinner) desire death, as being forever true“.
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108 And, through the judgment of the nations. If these ungodly, true, non christian nations of the earth, forever, shall not repent and be baptized, in the son, who is called, Jesus christ,
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109 Then they have most surely, bought upon themselves, and, upon all of their seen children. Death and great eternal, blasting, true destruction, from me, as being forever true of me forever,
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110 And I (god) will destroy them with their seen sins, forever. And even those nations, that trust in their false idol gods, I (god) shall shame those nations, by making those nations, see,
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111 That without christ, they shall die, forever. And that in trusting their idols, that they have bought great dissolving true judgment, from me (god), as being forever true, upon themselves, as being forever seen.
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112 And, those satan true nations in satanism forever. They shall become greatly angered at their false idols, which hath not life forever. And they shall revolt against their false, seen and hidden idols of falsehood.
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113 And those nations which shall not repent, by receiving Jesus christ, as christ Jesus, being their savior, as being forever seen. Then, they shall die unto me (god) forever,
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114 And their seed shall die unto me (god) forever, unless they repent in christ Jesus, forever.
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115 These false nations, they are not, true nations of life, that is called christ, unto me (god), forever. And without christ, in them. They shall die unto me forever.
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116 And I will judge them forever, if they destroy not their seen idols, forever. And if they accept not Jesus christ, as this Jesus being their seen savior, from me, forever,
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117 And without christ Jesus being their seen savior forever. Then they are seen unto me, as being faithfully forever seen, as being seen in satanism,
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118 As being forever true, and they are forever found, unto me forever true. In their desired true death, forever certain.
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119 And I, and I shall, trumpet, unto those ungodly, true nations, that are found unto satan himself, forever, and that are found by me, in their desired true death,
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120 As being forever true of themselves. As they are found unto me, in their desired, true, iniquity. That is called sin, forever.
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121 And those satan true nations, they must, therefore, all repent unto me, as being forever true of themselves, forever. Or they shall die unto me, as being forever true.
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122 And, they must repent, quickly at this time of the fallen true earth, forever, and turn unto me forever. And I am seen, as: “The god of truth“, forever.
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123 And, as I am truth forever. Those nonchristian, true rebellious, seen nations, as they are found unto me and found by me, in their seen satanism, forever. They must turn unto me, as being forever true,
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124 And, through, my eternal, and most true judgment, that is called: “The judgment of the nations“. If they, shall not repent, unto me, as being forever seen,
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125 As being quickly seen in repenting to me now, and, as being forever true. Then I shall cause war and or plagues and or famines,
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126 To seek out those ungodly true nations. That are nations, that are found unto me, in death, as being forever true, of themselves forever.
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127 And I will destroy them forever. And I shall even cause their pleasant true skies, to flee away from them, forever. And I shall stop the rain, unto them, forever,
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128 And I shall stop the snow unto them, and I shall cause their crops to die, unto them. And all their animals, shall die, unto me, and I shall fight against those satanism true ones, as forever seen.
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129 And I (god) shall call fire out of the sky to devour them, in all their seen labors. That is found in this satan true life, forever.
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130 And, those ungodly, true, non christian nations. That are found unto satanism, forever. They shall cease to exist, in the earth, forever,
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131 Unless they repent and receive Jesus christ, as christ Jesus, being their seen savior, forever.
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132 Therefore, let your false gods, and let satan give you life forever. And in his (satan) hand of life, thou shalt die in his tainted true life, forever, for in sin, thou art already found in satan himself, forever.
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133 And satan’s true hand of life, it isn’t christly true life, as found in me forever, but it is truly found unto me forever, as death forever,
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134 And in satan, thou art already cursed with death and thou shalt die forever, unless thou renounce satan forever, by accepting Jesus christ,
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135 As by, accepting Jesus christ, as thy seen, personal, living forever, true savior. As christ Jesus, is given of me forever, unto the earth, forever.
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136 Therefore, let all nations, consider, through the judgment of the nations. That they need to consider, their ways of blasphemous eternal true death, that is forever and ever upon them, forever,
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137 And that, they must repent, or I will destroy them, for desiring to be non christian nations of the earth, forever.
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138 And, in me, is the life called man and woman, as forever seen--therefore--repent--or thou shalt die unto me forever, saith thy god, who is thy creator, as forever seen.
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Roger wallace author of “THE GOD OF TRUTH”, found at: I-proclaim, isbn 978-1-60585-521-9.
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5/17/2008 5:57:07 PM
Yes, there are many anti-semites in the US. Thank you for pointing that out (90%, no, but many). Are you trying to say that you would be proud to be counted as one?
@Ben Schlomo:
Nationalistic threats of death to all enemies adds nothing positive to the discussion. You find yourself precariously close to the level of those on this board who spew anti-jewish rhetoric. Please be more constructive.
@Ravi Chavez:
See comment to Ben Schlomo. You could have made your argument stronger without resorting to the Kill 'Em All approach.
Israel will survive longer than the U.S. We are a peaceful yet strong country. You in the U.S. will all die before we do. You do not know how to deal with the terrorist Muslims. We will kill them; you will die.
The only hope for peace in the middle east is the demise of Israel. If brought to a vote in the U.S., 90% of our citizens would vote to cut the funding of the Israel death machine; which is truly a terrorist state. The only people U.S. citizens hate more than Arabs is Jews. Take a poll; I know that I'm right!
Mike Santora says:
“Let's recap was Israel has done for the U.S.:
Jonathon Pollard
The Liberty Incident
AIPAC
Mid East Violence
Etc. Etc.”
This plus the billions of dollars in annual grants dumped on it as well as the uncritical blind support afforded it both militarily and politically had earned the USA the enmity of the Muslim world; 59 countries with 1.6 billion people who own most of the world‘s oil reserves. All this reinforces my thesis of long ago that Israel to the USA is as Delilah to Samson. If unchecked will bring about the demise of this giant.
If Israel is to survive as a Jewish state, a two state solution is required. Israel will need to withdrawal from much of the West Bank and Golan Heights, but it will reserve the right to protect itself from attacks as it currently does in Lebanon and Syria. Israel and the US must also prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, since the president of that country has repeatedly stated his desire to destroy Israel. I do not support Israel because it is a Jewish state or because it is a US ally, I support it because it is the most advanced and tolerant nation in the region.
Ben Schlomo: "The state of Israel has done everything in its power to live in peace with our neighbors... In order the live in peace, my country will kill every one of our enemies. The citizens of Israel are compassionate caring people. Do not stand in the way of our peace or you will die."
One cannot hope for a more Orwellian tirade than that!
Any presidential candidate who runs in the U.S. on a platform of disengaging from Israel would win in a landslide. U.S. citizens hate the violent state of Irael!!!!
I cannot beieve the anti-semetic remarks being posted in this blog. The state of Israel has done everything in its power to live in peace with our neighbors. But like during the holocaust the prevailing theme of this blog seems to be death to the Jews. Have we not suffered enough. I had a fourth cousin die at the hands of the Nazis. Haven't I suffered enough because of the death in a family member. In order the live in peace, my country will kill every one of our enemies. The citizens of Israel are compassionate caring people. Do not stand in the way of our peace or you will die.
Yes, the question should not even be asked! Too scary for WP's Official Commentators. Let's keep silent and problems will disappear! Of course... Very wise. Very wise indeed! Keep it up!
In discussing whether israel will, or should should survive 40 more years,
let us read the AP story this morning...
Israel is planning more settlements and expansions on the West Bank.
It was mentioned only in passing about Bush's trip where he had to avoid meeting the crooked Ohlmert, about to be indicted.
The quesiton HERE should be not if, but WHETHER, whether Israel should suvive much longer. I, for one, do not disagree with the rest of the world, (in the new,prominent BBC survey, showing that Israel is the least respected and most hated state in the world.
In the words, which is more important, Israel's greed and ugly desire to own Palestine and control all of the ME. Or the welfare of the rest of the world. Do we love genocide?
I am pro-Israel because Israel is our ally. I am pro-England, pro-Canada and pro-any country that is our friend.
Consider this. Israel is surrounded by countries that not only want its destruction but who sponsor terrorism against the US (19 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis as is bin Laden). Israel has been our staunchest ally in the war on terror, helping us get vital intelligence on terrorists. As I mentioned, they did our dirty work for us in attacking Iran's nuclear development facilities.
I would say that Israel's friendship is worth a great deal to us and is worth the relatively small amount of foreign aid we give it.
And for those who think that wiping Israel off the face of the earth (such as Joshua Arbol) will bring peace to the middle east, consider this: Israel is not responsible for Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the infighting in Iraq, the Iraq-Iran war, the tension between Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India (both of which are nuclear), and the general animosity between Shiites and Sunni Arabs. If anything, one may make the point that by being the sacrificial lamb that Muslims turn their animosity toward, Israel lessens the conflicts that would otherwise erupt among Shiites and Sunnis. Of course, with Iran's growing influence in Iraq and its desire to be the pre-eminent power in the middle east, we may see that conflict anyway. If that happens, the conflicts in Israel will seem small by comparison.
Wes Wienstein wrote:
"The anti Jewish remarks give me chills. Israel is a peaceful country.... "
This is another trick of the zionist types. They use the two word "Jewish" and "Israel" interchangably. Over the decades they have learned that people consider being anti-Jewish as bad. Therefore if we confuse the two words, then anti-Israeli is equivalent to anti-Jewish. That way the state of Israel can do anything it wants with impunity; because no one wants to be called an anti-semite. I think many people are figuring this out; and that scares the hell out of Wes Weinstein types.
The anti Jewish remarks give me chills. Israel is a peaceful country meaning no harm to outsiders. Muslims who die in our conflicts are terrorists. My country only kills when absolutely necessary. We want peace and are not an agressive state; but we will kill all who threaten. It is a shame when peace loving Israelis are forced to kill in order to preserve our peace. We are living in our promised land and will defend ourselves from all intruders. All we want is peace! So don't threaten us or you will die like a dog.
Zenwick wrote:
>we're not unused to a lack of respect from >people of other religions, who nonetheless >think highly of themselves and their >relationship with God.
Why do you think respondeders to BBC's survey did not deem Israel respectable on religious grounds? Let us take religion out of this. Israel, after all is a state. As a state, it has done things that nation-states have done over centuries, grabbing land and enslaving those in them. This is the same stuff that the axis powers in WWII, and all the conquerors before them did. The allies of WWII has more universal aims. The Western allies believed in liberal values for all nations. The sovies were internationalists in the socialist sence. Isreal of today has a lot in common with Nazis and Tojo Japanese becuase all it cares about is its own nation's welfare.
Max wrote:
"the Jews who were the victims of WWII have founded a country that is not respected now because it has taken the nationalistic route."
It's an interesting point, and it's the reason why there are devout Jews (like the nitwits who attended Ahmedinejad's Wipe-Israel-Off-The-Map-Fest) who don't think statehood and godliness are compatible.
On the other hand, for Jews, non-statehood and being exterminated have been very compatible, so most of us don't figure on going there again. Anyway, we're not unused to a lack of respect from people of other religions, who nonetheless think highly of themselves and their relationship with God.
BBC conducts an annual poll around the world to rank countries on the basis of how well respected they are. In the last few years Germany and Japan are among the most respected and Israel (along with Iran) is considered the least respected. This is very ironic considering the legacy of mankind's greatest struggle, world war II. That war was foungh between one side that had more of an internationalist and idealistic bent (the allies); and the other side that had specifically nationalistic agendas (German and Japan). The irony is that the Germans and the Japanese has taken the internationalistic banner, and are respected for it, but the Jews who were the victims of WWII have founded a country that is not respected now because it has taken the nationalistic route. This is one of the greatest reversals in history.
I was suggesting that Israel had already brokered peace with a neighbor at a relatively high price (land for peace where the land returned is larger than the Pre-'67 size of Israel).
Hezbollah's influence is widespread through Lebanon and Syria, but will more likely trigger another full scale civil war in Lebanon before is is a true threat to Israel.
Iran CLAIMS not to be seeking nuclear weapons, just like Israel REFUSES to discuss whether or not it has a nuclear arsenal. Iraq will be a mess for a long time before it is able to mount a campaign of its own (a Topic worthy of a whole other series, not here). Hamas can't stop incursions and occupation by the enemy it is sworn to destroy. Heck, Hamas interferes with attempts to feed its own people.
Islamic Republic in Egypt? Maybe, but not yet...
In the end my point was, who (in the Middle East)other that Israel has been asked to give up land it currently controls? Who else (in the Middle East) has returned (voluntarily) land it controlled?
The day Israel is wiped off the map is the day there will be peace in the middle east. If the U.S. wants peace they should cut off the funding for the Israeli death machine (IDF)!!!!!!!!!
Will we ever get back money from the Lend-Lease program of WWII that was sent to the Other Allies (no not in full)? Will The Egyptians ever return the subsidies they have received (no)? Will Colombia ever return the funds it received, or Venezuela, or Panama... I could go on and on. That is the nature of foreign aid sent by the US, to well neigh more than 1/2 the nations on the planet.
Israel is not my country, but I do not favor its destruction either, as some here seem to desire. If you believe that Israel has given no effort to its current success then nothing anyone says to you will ever matter b/c you would be choosing to ignore reality. Barren land now produces food. Idustry and manufacturing exist beyond the means of its neighbors. Not all from US money. . .
Will we ever get back money from the Lend-Lease program of WWII that was sent to the Other Allies (no not in full)? Will The Egyptians ever return the subsidies they have received (no)? That is the nature of foreign aid sent by the US, to well neigh more than 1/2 the nations on the planet. Will Colombia ever return the funds it received, or Venezuela, or Panama... I could go on and on.
Israel is not my country, I do not favor its destruction either, as some here seem to desire. If you believe that Israel has given no effort to its current success then nothing anyone says to you will ever matter b/c you would be choosing to ignore reality. Barren land now produces food. Idustry and manufacturing exist beyond the means of its neighbors. Not all from US money. . .
By the "victor's spoils" you mean Hamas's increasing capacity to hit Southern Israel? Or Hizbullah's growing influence in Labeanon? Perphas both. Maybe you mean Iran's nuclear program and emergence as Israel's most potent adversary. Oh, and I forgot about the Islamic Republic of Iraq and the future Islamic Republic of Egypt. Congratulations! Enjoy the spoils. Please don't share them with me.
Indeed, interesting question, what would Israel do without US military backing?, which, by the way it also costs money. In any case, Israel's fate is tied to our economy, if we ever go down we will drag you, unless, again, your nation proves that it is really a prosperous, self-sufficient as any official propaganda wants us to believe.
I personally compare this nation to the rich kid who lives large thanks to a rich relative but not thanks to his/her own effort.
How much does Israel owe to the United States considering the huge amount of dollars delivered every year?, will we ever get our money back?. Even Colombia which is officially labeled "ally" doesn't get that royal treatment: unrestricted borrowing.
As a racist apartheid entity,israel was born dead,it has no moral or legal legitimacy what so ever ,it has no constitution,no borders:no colonial settler state ever survived in the Arab East:the crusaders' statelets were finally evicted after a fragmented and precerious existence for two centuries;French colonialism in and of Alegeria for 130 years did not fare better,so was the nuclear armed racist apartheid white south africa.
israel has no chance in hell to survive-not while eleven million tormented and dispossessed Palestinians live either in jewish concentration camps in their own homeland or in refugee camps within one or two hours drive from their occupied home lands in historic Palestine.
Solution:
One secular multi-cultural multi-religious democrcay for all: Arabs (Christains and Muslims)and jews who lived in historic Palestine at or before 1914-all other jews who landed there after 1914 who are in fact illegal jewish immigrants sumggled by the British mandate authority should go back to where they come from and leave the homes and land they stole from the ethnically cleanesed Palestinians by jewish terrorist groups(hagana,palmach,irgun,shtern)in 1947/8.
No other solution will ever work-never;it is just untainable to have an occupying racist apartheid militaristic jewish theocracy on Arab land and in the heart of the Arab world.
Zenwick,
You probably did not understand what I was trying to say and I do not understand what you are trying to say. My point is,nobody over there is willing to accept anybody else's criteria, reality notwithstandin. To the question you are directing to me: that housemate would certainly get his butt wiped out before me; no doubt about that.
How would you feel if your housemate opened fire on you, and served notice that he would move back into the house as soon as he was able to finally kill you?
The way things have been and still are, Israel will disappear along with the rest of the Middle East in one of the greatest confrontations ever (we are not talking about stones and arrows here). It's hard to say, but none of these folks are really willing to negotiate in good terms at all. Now, for Yossi Melman; how would you feel if you are evicted, evacuated or however you want to state it, from your house, along with your family and then, later on, you are being told that you are allowed to come back but to a little room in the basement of your own house and use only the half-bathroom available?
Why wouldn't someone call you an anti-semite for your last post? "Thanks for Nothing Jews". . .
That's terribly enlightened. All Jews are to be blamed for things (that you dubiously) claim are the result of US support for Israel?
Then all Americans are to be blamed, including you, for slavery, murder of the Native Americans, Mistreatment of Detainees, and the Global Credit Crisis.
All Christians are to be blamed for the pogroms of Europe, the spanish inquisition and the atrocities of the crusade...
Understand I don't hold these beliefs but they make as much sense as Mr. Steve...
I think the question of how long Israel can survive is a good one, because it comes down to the question of, whose side is time on? Palestinians hope they can keep the issue front-and-center by playing the victim in the world press, stoking antisemitism, and linking it to fears of world-wide terrorism.
Israelis hope they can make it go away by building a barrier, to let the Arabs stew in their own juices. The problem with that approach has been cross-border rockets, and will be the future Iranian nukes.
As long as each side thinks they can get an advantage by deadlocking the process, there will be no solution.
Don't you think that 60 years is long enough for Israel to be sucking on Americas teats?
When will you Jews stand up for yourselves?
If America stopped giving Israel billions of dollars in aid, and most of your weapons, what then would you do?
Don't even try to call me anti-semetic. America has done more for Israel than any other country in the world. What has Israel done for America?
1. A never ending war.
2. AIPAC
3. Joe F-ing Lieberman.
4. Military stike against our Navy
thanks for nothing Jews
Israel may survive to be 100 but not much longer. Israel’s fate will follow America’s fate, which doesn’t look very promising over the next 40 or 50 years. As America gradually becomes a minority country and the present ruling class loses power, support for Israel will decline and without American support Israel will cease to exist.
US doesn't stand on its own feet, all the time. The Mortgage Crisis has led to major US corporations receiving bail outs through cash infusions by Asian Nations, middle east nations and European interests... Arguably US economy would have really crashed absent foreign assistance....
US is one the worlds biggest benefactors in terms of cash, and Israel certainly benefits greatly. However under the same demand, "stand on your own two feet", dozens of other nations would have to be cut off and would probably fail. Would Israel fail without US cash but with US military backing? That would be an interesting question.
Answer: Probably not, but as rude as this is, to the victor goes the spoils. When in the Middle east has any nation victorious in military operation returned the land it annexed? Only Once, and I'll give you a hint... 1978, Camp David, Egyptian peace... Answer: The Sinai returned by the Israelis...
Why was this politically possible? The Sinai was never really a part of either Israel or the previous territory of Palestine. What was a part of the previous territory of Palestine, and considered by the 1st independent government in the area in centuries as a part of the State was/is the Gaza and the West Bank.
That said, might does not make right.
Will peace prevail? Two possible scenarios:
1. Predominantly Muslim Middle East contries follow the Egyptian model, recognize Israel, stop fighting it, and focus on internal improvements & accomodating Palestinian Muslims; or
2. Collapse of the economies of the Oil producing Arab Nations such that they have no choice.
The only third choice is nuclear obliteration of the middle east by Iran-Israel conflict.
(...)"Israel cannot be defeated by conventional means. It is too strong. It is a nuclear power. Iran's president has calculated that nuclear war would destroy all of Israel but not all of Islam. Do we really want nuclear war on this planet?"(...)
Moshe Epstein ("there is no proof of Israel having a nuclear arsenal. Those are just rumors started by the terrorist governments")
Any comments about this dear Moshe?, maybe you may need to remind your fellow country man to keep it hush-hush and not get too carried away.
We all know Israel has nuclear weapons thanks to our support, all efforts to show otherwise have been fruitless. Please, do not insult our intelligence.
Just show me your country can stop asking for more money from us. That's all I want as an American, it is time for Israel to stand on its own like we do.
WHy does Israel think they are above the law?? They keep expanding further into occupied territory, they ignore UN resolutions, and employ a double standard when it comes to nukes. We can have them but no one else? Why won't Israel sign the NPT? Iran has and this gives them the RIGHT to enrich uranium as long as the concentration stays below 5%. Nukes require over 90%.
As far as Camp David Summit and Peace Accords? If you switch the names Palestine and Israel on the paper, would Israel have accepted the map of the proposed Palestine state as their own? A state broken into unconnected pieces...without any soverignity over their airspace? I seriously doubt it.
To Yossi Melman,
Amen! I agree with everything you say here. Your hopes are my hopes. I wonder why people keep calling Israel's policies "evil" but they do not criticize Sudan for its policies in Darfur. They criticize Israel for the Gaza blockade, but when it lifts the blockade to let fuel in and HAMAS blocks the fuel trucks and REFUSES to let them enter, those voices are silent. Yes, Hamas is complicit, if not causing, the Palestinians more suffering today because they are refusing to allow Israeli fuel trucks to pass through their border.
Israel will live, survive, thrive. The question is insulting. How would you feel, peanut gallery of commenters, if someone asked this question about the USA?
Israel is a peaceful nation surrounded by terrorist states. There is no proof of Israel having a nuclear arsenal. Those are just rumors started by the terrorist governments. If we did have nuclear weapons I would encourage our goverment to use every last one of them so that we can be free and live in peace.
Here is a Moroccan perspective on this absurd and endless conflict:
Israel is indeed the 20th century miracle (survival, democracy, technology, development, and even fun...). But a miracle need not be at the cost of Palestinians who equally deserve peace and propserity in a homeland. Denying Israelis their achievements and Palestinians their humanity serves no one. Yet, who are we judge? We can't solve our minor problems with Algerian "brothers"!
I am an American jew, supportive of State of Israel. But I see ominous indications that Israel as you know it is in peril. First, the nationalistic fervor of earlier generations is giving way in the young to hopes for a better, more peaceful life elsewhere; the number of Israelis who are immigrating to the United States, some illegally through the Mexican border is increasing. Second, your insistence on using young men and women to man checkpoints and provide security against hostile neighbors is depriving them of the opportunity to develop the technical knowledge necessary for future economic development.
Third, increasing criticism of the current politics of Israel among Americans, along with the decline in the American economy, threatens economic support for Israel without which you cannot long survive.
Fourth, the general lowering of the water tables in the area are bound to provoke more disagreements with your more prolific (and currently hostile) arab neighbors.
Fifth, the vibrant democracy you boast of does not include the million or so Israeli arabs who feel discriminated against and have no effective political representation.
Sixth, no Israeli leader has ever disavowed an Israeli claim to Judea and Samaria - without which there can never be agreement with the Palestinians on borders. And the list goes on. Wake up before it is too late.
Israel is a loyal ally of the United States. It bombed Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities at our request. When the first President Bush put together a global alliance to invade Iraq to free Kuwait, Iraq attacked Israel, who was not part of the coalition. Israel, at the US's request, did not attack back so as not to break the alliance of other Arab countries. Imagine what would happen if the rest of the world had asked the second George Bush not to attack Iraq, would we have listened? (Oh that's right, they did make that request). For years, Yasser Arafat oversaw attacks on Israel, which had the ability to arrest Arafat at any time. at the request of the US, Israel did not. Would we let Osama bin Laden off so easily if we could capture him?
People criticize Israel for occupying land that was seized as a result of other countries attacking them. Yet we occupy Iraq and Iraq never attacked us. Arabs talk about returning to pre-1967 borders, yet what caused those borders to change? Arabs had the desired borders for 19 years and then they chose to launch a multination war against a country much smaller and with far fewer people. Can anyone blame Israel for seeking security? Israel left Gaza and now Palestinians use that land to launch daily attacks at innocent civilians.
Egypt has shown the solution. They made peace with Israel (after Israel turned over intelligence information it had on an assassination attempt on then Egyptian president Anwar Sadat) and Israel returned the land it occupied. Israel will make peace with whomever wants to. The Egypt-Israel peace treaty has lasted 30 years. To those nations who want peace, peace is available. but one cannot expect Israel to do nothing when confronted by people whose credo is to detroy Israel any more than we would do nothing if a group of other nations wanted to destroy us.
Israel was created as a legitimate country, recognized by the UN. It is no more reasonable to ask Israel not to exist than it is to ask any other such country not to exist. To those who do not want to support Israel any more, consider this. Israel cannot be defeated by conventional means. It is too strong. It is a nuclear power. Iran's president has calculated that nuclear war would destroy all of Israel but not all of Islam. Do we really want nuclear war on this planet? If not, then it is in our best interest to support Israel's existence as Israel will not die quietly just as we would not either.
billy:
I like most americans support Israel.
The only animals are muslims not jews.
* I am American but I don't feel obligated to support a foreing country, I support the United States of America. I you don't feel like doing so then nobody stops you for going somewhere else.
Jews dont try to kill me when I Board a plane or try to bleed me dry with the cost of fuel.
They dont preach that they want to murder me and my children...but muslims do !!!
* All muslims?, remember, generalization is born from ignorance. The cost of fuel is the product of especulators in the West, get a grip.
The way I see it , its time for the muslims to pack there bags and get of here , your not wanted.
your so pround of palestine move to gaza.
* If most Israelis think like you then we will have to endure more wars. It is time for you two (israelis and palestinians) to stop right now, we are sick and tired of you.
the anti Israel posts here is amusing . I have no doubt most of the anti jewish comments are from arabs who now call america home.Because their own middle eastern countries suck
* I have no doubt you have the IQ of a rock. Most comments are from people who put the facts out there, I don't like my country bankrolling another in the order of tens of billions of dollars EVERY YEAR, while here at home there is so much to do. Your accusations of anti-semitism are immature and completely worn out, they don't work anymore. You and your country are not beyond reproach.
last year in so called Palestine 623 murders where woman killed from their own families.
Honer killings.
All Nations built on Machiaveli (rule by sword) have disapeared.
Cyrus (rule by justice) is the way to go.
It is widely said,Israel is a democracy. Well,this makes it even worst. When dust settles, Jews, unlike the Germans, Israeli can not say they didnt know and they were against the regim. Fortunatly all is documented.
Last 60 yrs,the Arabs were "colonies" .. they still are, but not for long. Israel should make a deal quik , time is not on their side, for sure not.
How come 95% of Iranian jews leaving went to US and not Israel.How come 95% of South African jews went to Canada and US and not Israel.How come 90% of Russian jews went to US and not Israel (most Russian in Israel are not jews,recent anti-semit accident by Russians in Israel). How come after 60 yrs Israeli jewish population is decreasing.
Well 2 articles from Israeli scholars says a lot,a must read for all Israeli.
-"The Lion and the Gazelle" by "Uri Avnery"
-Tel Aviv University historian, Prof. Shlomo Sand, author of "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?"
What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation. Jews now have the right to self-determination, and that is what the anti-semite dislikes so much.
Oh, it may continue for a thousand years; but at what cost? The only viable long term solution is:
1) Israel to be reconstituted in its more or less legal 1948 boundaries; or
2) Create a new secular Palestinian state where all religions can be practiced and there is no religious or ethnic advantage to any peoples; all occupied lands to be repatriated to the original owners; all resources to be shared to all peoples as a common good; Israel to pay for its illegal and immoral occupation; and a public apology to the Palestinian peoples would be welcome start to healing the disastrous alienation of the Zionists!
Without either of these remedies, I am afraid we are just in waiting for the inevitable loss by Israel of some crucial battle and the resulting Diaspora once again of the Jews; perhaps accompanied with a nuclear "event" that could bring on the desired Armageddon of the Christian “life hating” fundamentalists!
The only "ostrich" policy I've been seeing for the last 60 years is the Israeli one. It was Golda Meir who said it best: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian." Let me tell you something bucko, there are still pro-Israeli people to this day that support that notion. Israel is STILL in denial regarding the war crimes they have committed against the Palestinians! Read Kuttab's editorial to get a real understanding of what Israel faces. If they keep up with their apartheid policies, Israel as stands today, WILL FALL by age 100.
Giani wrote:
Well, Nations are not based on religion. Religion would not cement a Nation. Pakistan a good sample.
Pakistani all Moslems, but nothing else in common.
Converts, & not practicing judaism (secular) !!!
Well .. wouldnt bet the farm on future
_________________________
Converts or not, I challenge you to find another nation that is more nationalistic and single-minded in purpose. I'm not going to choose sides in the morality question (though the whole suicide bomber thing doesn't do any good for the Palestinians' argument), but an examination of the cohesive nature of the Israeli population indicates that it won't be going anywhere. US money or not. Arab enemies or otherwise. Israelis LOVE their country and are, at the individual, more involved in the shaping of their country than any other nation. You can question whether Israel should have been established in the first place, but it is insanity to question the Israelis' resolve.
The same can be asked of any nation in the world. Where are the old Empires (Roman, Ottoman, Greek, British etc...)? They are all gone because nothing is forever, that is the point of this question. The world will rejoice when the light of Zion is extinguished by people who would not kill over texts written by people. When Moses returned from Mt Sinai he found his people worshiping a golden calf. God then learned that people would forever misinterpret his message. No man understands God's message, if they did we would all get along.
The Arabs and the Jews need to take a deep breath and then settle the mess they have made. Palestinians won't get everything they want nor will Israelis. Probably less than 1% of the people on both sides of this issue have stopped a settlement the other 99+% want. I think Israel will survive another 60 years but I wouldn't be surprised if the current mess still exists in 2068.
Nice response. I guess no one is allowed to ask any question of Israel. It is a huge success much like our our green zone in Iraq. If you keep dumping in enough money and build the walls high enough it will work, i know it will. It is funny that in lieu of responding to the question, Melman propaganda machine went to work. Turning the argument from will it be there in 40 years to you can't ask that question. Well last time I checked we as Americans can ask anything we want. We write the checks for you to exist.
I find all the responses to this article fascinating. Is there anyone out there who thinks that Israeli policies are evil but that it will survive? Is there anyone out there who thinks that Israel is a wonderful country but that it will not survive? The correlation between the readers' moral assessment of the situation and their prediction of what is likely to happen is emotional--based on what is most satisfying to your sense of order or justice. Of course, the universe does not obey such laws. It is a child's way of reasoning, which, alas, all too many adults indulge in.
I read this article and comments after I read the article and comments declaring that there might be some racism keeping people from voting for Obama. It amazes me just how much blatant racism exists, and how willing so many of you bigots are to spew this stuff under the anonymity of a blog.
Israel has existed for several thousand years, though in its current state for 60 years. The so-called Palestinians were rejected by every country in the area, inlcuding Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. It's such a shame that these countries wouldn't allow their 'brothers' immigrate.
As for the lands 'stolen' by Israel... please read some history before you make more of an idiot of yourself. All lands won by Israel were taken as a result of wars started by neighboring countries. Syria attacked Israel and lost the Golan Heights. Jordan attacked Israel and lost the West Bank. For a country so geographically small to have that strong of an army is amazing... it's also a necessity. Israel will be around for years to come; hopefully her neighbors will get over themselves in that time and accept it.
Homer, by your rationale anyone driven from their land has the right to return. There is also no statute of limitations Meaning that even though the people that you are talking about have nothing to do with Palestine have the right to take land because some text that was written by Jews says you need a homeland. Semitic is defined as : "of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic" Stop trying to steal the word. In addition most people that live in Israel are not from there. They are from Europe or the United States. The original Jews that lived in Palestine are treated as second class citizens because they are darker, much like the Arabs that are also Israeli citizens. Don't use Dr. Kings quote, he did not intend it to be used by a tyrannical people. Zionists are Nazi's. They do not represent all Jews. Just like Evangelicals do not represent all Christians. God is not in a physical location in this world. He is in our hearts. All people's hearts not the select few that are "chosen".
Just as importantly is the question: "Will the United States be around in another 40 years?" True, it is an extreme question, but the US has placed itself in a dangerous position with its military excursions, its bankrupt economy, its loss of domestic manufacturing capability, its ridiculous national deficit, its growing divide between rich and poor, and its president and legislature that has lost complete touch, care for, and understanding of its constituancy. The rise and fall of great nations is a scary scenario, but one that we as a nation MUST be concerned with.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.
"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.
"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.
"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.
This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.
"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!
"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.
Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."
The Zionist Regime occupying Jerusalem will fall due to its own hubris and arrogance. Their Nookular WMD pose a grave threat to the world. They bully and attack their neighbors. They ignore the U.N. The U.S. bombed the wrong nation.
Israel did not prevent Russia from defeating the United States. They had no prayer to defeat us.
Israel is not the most powerful military in the world. The US could wipe you out in one week.
No one denies that the holocaust happened. The point is you cannot keep using it as an excuse to commit atrocities in the name of it for the rest of time. Like you said get over it. Every other group in the world has. Don't you think that the American Indians have a little more to complain about?
The loans you speak of are not repaid to the US. They are paid to the brokers that receive them for free
Does Palestine have an Army? No, so how do they defend themselves from your great Army?
If Israel is so great like you say, please stand on your own. We are so tired of carrying you.
Quote; "I am pretty confident that once this fundamental obstacle is genuinely overcome (by peace treaties and wholehearted acceptance) all the other stumbling blocks – occupation, settlements, Jerusalem, refuges, security arrangements and weapons of mass destruction - can be solved if good will and good intentions are shown."
The State of Israel has been giving resolutions and have agreed to them to the "so called stumbling blocks," and it is Israel that is not interested while using its financial wealth and US weapons to create a 20th century holocaust all in the name of greed and self created fear.
I find it funny that the moderator of the article before had a same day rebuttal.....
Whether "Israel" will survive depends on your definitions. Politically, that is as a political state, maybe. Demographically, as a Jewish state, probably not. The non-Jewish birthrate will simply overwhelm the Jewish population in the coming decades. At some point in the not too distant future, Israel will look like South Africa did 40 years ago: a small elite population subjugating a large palestinian population within its borders. Peaceful or not, that situation will resolve at some point in favor of the non-Jewish population.
recent polls put American support for the Palestinians at 13%...wonder why ?
im 68 I travel weekly sometimes sometimes more depending on the job, everytime i spend more than an hour or 3 at security and have to take my stuff apart and remove my shoes its not because of the jews, but because of the peacefull muslims.
The tragedy could end tommorrow if the US refused to give the billuions on Us taxpayers money to Israel until it complied with international law.
The only reason Israel continues to thumb it's nose at the Geneva Conventions, international law and just plain human decency is becuase it is given a free ride by the Us.
STOP ALLOWING YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES FROM BEING BOUGHT BY THE ZIONIST LOBBY. THEY ARE BEING PAID AND YOUR MONEU FUNDS THIS APARTHEID NATION.
It is astounding, astounding and disgusting, that the focus is on Israel's "survival". Israel survives and exists- Palestine does not; it was wiped off the map when the European colonists came and drove out- or masscred- the indigenous people. Palestine is the issue- the millions of human beings made stateless and decimated by the creation of a state for a religious sect.
There are millions of our fellow human beings who have never known freedom from a brutal occupying military. Those under the age of 30 in the walled off ghettoes in the little 22% of what was Palestine have never been free from the Israeli military and the thugs who live in the Jews-only fortified towns on occupied land- AN INTERNATIONAL CRIME.
No, israel is not "as good as any other democratic nation on this planet"....not by half! When you have 4 classes of citizens and calls 1, Jews only, have access to any area to build homes and to access social services and the other 3 classes of citizens do not- THAT IS APARTHEID AND CERTAILNY NOT DEMOCRATIC.
To all you clueless readers who still don't understand what Mr. Melman was talking about, it is time for you to realize that your remarks regarding Israel's right to exist are moot. We are here, we have been a constant presence in the Middle East since ancient times and we are not going anywhere. As for you true anti-Semites that spout on endlessly about "stealing land" only arabs have done that with poor consequences. We do not need to steal our own heritage which is what modern Israel truly can be called. We are the light of Zion, millions of lights, in fact. So next time you need medical testing turn the equipment around and see where it was manufactured and who owns the patents for it. Next time you receive a voicemail message or talk to your friends (if you have any) or family using instant messenging find out where that technology was invented. Next time you board an airplane ask the security teams from whence their security training emanated. The list of our accomplishments in a short span of 60 years is remarkable by any modern definition. We did not need the US to do anything except say "yes" 60 years ago in the UN to the resolution that only solidified and acknowledged our historic right to be here. The US financial support that the bulk of you manyakim keep shouting about is not to buttress a failed experiment in history. We do not get money from any source as "gifts". We do get loans which we repay with interest from countries such as Germany and the EU as well as the US. Only raging anti-Semites say such stupid things about the US and her special relationship with Israel. It is a practical one, benefitting both countries immeasurably. We are, and have been since 1948, a bulwark against Soviet ambitions in the Middle East. They continue to meddle in the affairs of Lebanon through Iran's proxy, Syria. They now have their own oil and gas reserves and still feel the need to supply Syria with their own anti-aircraft weaponry. If there was no Israel, the bulk of you anti-Israel morons would be speaking Russian. As for Mr. Melman being "right wing", he writes for Haaretz, Israel's leading left wing paper. But hey, since you are on a roll about being so wrong about everything else he said, why not be wrong about his views? The Post had discussed the "occupation" a week ago. We occupy no one. Anyone is free to leave any place within and adjacent to our borders. Palestinains political officials do it all the time as they act as banks so they can smuggle cash into Aza and parts of the West Bank to buy terror and death for us as well as themselves. We do have checkpoints and we do have barriers to keep Palestinians with evil intentions where they belong, in Aza. We guard our waters from smuggling attempts by Palestinians and we find thousands of tons of illegal contraband being smuggled each year at checkpoints, including "fertilizers" that would be used to make explosives instead of being applied to any field. We blow up smuggling tunnels next to Rafah and we arrest smugglers. So do the Egyptians. We do all these things with the best army in the world. They are the most motivated, best trained and best equipped to carry out our goals. They are primarily equipped with our own inventions made at our own factories and plants. We share our technology with the US and friendly nations all the time. We perfect the things we pay for from other nations and we have weapons no one can even comprehend at our disposal. We do all these things so we can survive in a world that is full of Israel deniers--a new breed of Holocaust deniers as the responses here indicate. Get over yourselves and move on. We already have.
Israel is already a de facto failed state having decided - and it did decide, this was not forced on it -- to live in a state of war with its neighbours rather than make the concessions necessary to live in peace. That constitutes a failed state - failed because it will live in a perpetual state of war with its mad children - the settlers who live in a world of metaphysical, narcissistic self-righteousness - running the show. There is nothing noble or valuable about what Israel - and the idea of Israel -- has become.
It's easy to say all you want is peace when you've already got the other guy's land - anyone can say that. The difficulty is saying it when you haven't got it. Stealing the land and living in a state of war, Israel's choice, demeans it irredeemably in the eyes of the civilized world. But when you think you've got God on your side........
All the countries you have listed, save for those carved out of the rump of the Ottoman Empire, are real countries with centuries of history. They were not fabricated in a rebel format of refusing to accept the British Mandate.
You have listed a long list of achievements but have danced around the core issues of (a) occupation and (b) the peace that Jews sought as a refuge but have not experienced it in Israel for the last 60 years. In fact it is the only place were Jewish blood has been shed since WWII. Ironic, ain't it?
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinians. In your article, you claim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigrants". Israel Mr. Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states. In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinian land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist Zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its original inhabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinians villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinian people. Israel also is not respecting United States resolutions since 1967 and it continues to impose siege on 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany. Every day Israel is committing atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives miserable. Israel claims democracy and preventing Palestinians in Jerusalem to go to Al Aqsa mosque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupied in 1967 by complying with United Nation resolutions. This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarantee its survival
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinians. In your article, you claim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigrants". Israel Mr. Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states. In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinian land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist Zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its original inhabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinians villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinian people. Israel also is not respecting United States resolutions since 1967 and it continues to impose siege on 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany. Every day Israel is committing atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives miserable. Israel claims democracy and preventing Palestinians in Jerusalem to go to Al Aqsa mosque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupies in 1967 by complying with united nation resolutions. This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarantee its survival
Who needs odds when you have $20 billion from America?
Though I wonder, if America were to give Palestine $20 billion a year, and refuse to recognise Israel's democratically elected, terrorist government, whose desert would subsequently bloom.
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinins.In your article you calim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigants". Israel Mr Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states.In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinin land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its origional inabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinina villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinina people.Israel also is not respecting United states resolutions since 1967 and its continues to impose siege on 1.5 million palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany.Every day Israel is commiting atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives misrable.Israel claims democarcy and preventing Palestinina in Jerusalm to go to Al Aqsa mousque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all palestinina territories occupies in 1967 by complying with united states reolutions.This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarntee its survival.
The idea that a country should live in constant danger for 60 years is one thing, but to contend with a demographic time bomb and an eroding military might is quite another.
Israel's hinterland was never more in danger than it is now. Even the 'Dimona solution,' the Ben Gurion and Peres final deterrent seems to be useless in the face of rockets that are launched daily from nowhere.
With the US administration embroiled in the Iraqi quagmire, Israel had to watch its allies get routed in Beirut, helpless and incapacitated.
According to Israeli historians, the 'thriving' had reached about 25% of the population, while the minorities, Jews and Arabs alike, are sinking like the US Middle Class. Does this not at least partially explain the reticence of the Israeli soldiers to put in a fight ion July 2006.
So much for the brave talk of a right-wing Israeli newspaper editor.
Peace in the Middle East will not come by denial and persistence - just as peace never came through the waning military superiority.
To wage peace is so much harder than to ignite a war. But it will come. And when it does it will be from inside Israel as well as from outside.
That will not be a moment too soon, after which, Israelis and Arabs will live in peace, as they did before they were separated by lethal dreams, bloodshed and destruction.
It is remarks like Mr. Melhman's that turn people against Israel.2000 years ago there were no countries as we know them now.They were areas like Egypt, Babylonia, Mesopotamia etc. To consider the arguement that Jews lived in what is now Israel, we must forget about the exodus from Egypt, their literary contibutions and their living in Babylonia etc. Mr. Melhman should make the arguement that since the biblical times great numbers of Jews lived in settlements that are known by biblical names, it will be reasonable for the Jews to have a country of their own, respecting the people that also lived in those same areas at that time, accomodating them and also being accomotated and live peacefully like neighbors. The fact that the victors of WWII decided to settle most of the European Jews in their ancestral area that became Israel, is an accomplished fact and rightly or wrongly should be accepted by all.It is common knowledge that most of the Palestinians that lived there vehemently objected this arrangement 60 years ago, and still do. It is also a fact that the Israel that was created in 1948, it is not the Israel of today, both in land area and people composition. The Israelis, who are by far the smartest and most powerful should be amenable to some of the reasonable demands of present day Palestinians, otherwise, they will have to endure the uncertainties of present day life. For people that have suffered so much by other powerful nations like Spain, Turkey and Germany and know the pains of extremely torturous behavior by these countries, should find a way to make peace.
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
KK says we have to remove the anti semetic chip off our shoulder.What makes you zionists treat palestinians like unclean dogs as you describe them in the torah.so what is the term used to describe jews that hate the semetic arab.Do jews think that palestinians had no fore fathers,because that is racist in tone.So let me get this right if we side with palestinians we are anti semetic racist's.If we side with jews we are blessed,give that propaganda a rest.You treat people like dogs,and you tell people they have a chip on their shoulder,you sound like general custer.You cry for christian funds(welfare)and then call them the unclean goyim,so who has the chip on their shoulder.Should jews be treated like they treat palestinians in land that your god did not give to you.Should it be done to you as you do to the palestinians.Ya i think your answer would be no.But then humbleness is not part of your culture,looking at the way you act and treat non jewish people.What was that in the bible you can charge interest from every one but a fellow jew,sounds like a book written by a jewish person for jewish people not the creaters words.And were has the color gone from your skin,what happened while you left the harsh desert for the riches of europe,you became white along the way,now your desert people again returning home.
SHIMON: Repeating the same thing over and over only works in religios schools and cults, not secular societies. If every nation had to return land to ancient forefathers we would all end up living in the horn of Africa, including you. God's word is only law in theocracies such as Israel and Iran. (Coincidence.?..I think not)
Palestinians had forefathers as well, and have been living in the MIddle East for just as long. Your argument makes no sense, unless, of course, you are typing from a Kabutz somewhere deep in Palestinian territory....
Making fulfilling some ancient biblical prophecy its foreign policy is the last thing a nation which supposedly believes in separation of church and state should be doing.
Yet more evidence that the United States is as phony as a one dollar bill.
I live in Israel. It is the land of my forefathers. We were kicked out against our will and have returned home to out traditional territory. Reading these responses is as depressing as it is expected these days.
Israel will exist as long as it is in the international strategic interest of the United States for Israel to exist OR as long as it is in the domestic political interests of the elected officials of the United States AND the United States is capable of enforcing its will.
Those conditions failing in whole or in part, Palestine will return to the people from whom it was stolen.
Until then, madness will continue in occupied Palestine and the occupiers will pay an indefensible price for the rent. Silly Harry Truman; he was out of his league. As for the Brits?.........well, they just wanted out. The Zionists? Never have so few been so guilty for the crimes against so many.
The best American policy solution is for the US to simply GO NEUTRAL on Israel, neither pro or against Israel. Just go neutral - no money, no intelligence or military sharing, no diplomatic support at the UN or elsewhere, no favors on the commercial, immigration, tax or import front. Just treat Israel as a neutral zone, etc.
This proposed position all makes sense after the continual Israeli spying (oh, too many cases and up to the present, indeed, including the 1968 USS Liberty attack by Israelis in the 1960s (just Google USS Liberty to be surprised at the scope and shame of it all.) Why does a small influential group receive such overwhelming financial, military and diplomatic support from the US, which has its own national interests damaged by this Israeli support? Well, folks, it is very clear - monetary, lobbying support, media and political intimidation from pro-Israeli groups in the US. Those who analyze and determine otherwise are then insulted and belittled, with no room for other opinions or conclusions on the matter - even Rabbi Michael Lerner and the 50% of Israelis- even the 50% of Peace Now Israelis who disagree - anti-semites all.
Any idiot could see that Israel is totally dependent on the US for its existence. So let he US go neutral and let Israel cope in a world without US support - financial, diplomatic, intelligence, military, commercial. Stop the subsidies and welfare. Israel is a perpetrator, not a victim! It will become much nicer and accommodating, and stop it arrogant and murderous stance once it has to face reality without the belligerent US backing of its racist policies. Talk about religious discrimination!
Patriotic American s want the US to protect US interests, NOT Israeli interests. To do otherwise is traitorous, and in no way anti-semitic - that just a wizard word to silence critics and fact based logic!
I had the pleasure to listen to Mr. Melman on a talk show this morning discussing the state of affairs in Lebanon. And interestingly enough, although not stated directly, the theme of the conversation was basically will Lebanon survivie and in what fashion. So this question is being asked of nations other than Isreal and it is a question that should be asked of all nations if they and their leaders wish to remain relevant and in touch with the ethos of its people.
And when it comes to Isreal it is a fair question not just because of its eternal strife in the neighborhood but because there is a great demographic shift looming just over the horizon that could bring about a change so drastic that it could tear apart what is basically a stable nation. The fact that Isrealis (Jews in particular) are becoming a smaller and smaller paortion of the population of Isreal and the Palestinian territories so asking how this fact will effect the survival of the nation is avalid and important question.
Isn't it a bit of a contradiction to begin by saying both that the question shouldn't have been asked, and that it could be asked of many other countries? Absolutely, it could (and will) be asked of other countries! But today it is being asked about Israel, partly because, as you point out, Israel has been quite successful at gaining the interest of the world media. The inquiry seems to be a fairly clear question about what effects the policies Israel is currently pursuing are likely to have on its survival ...
Another Israeli mouthing off about how big and tough Israel is...
While AIPAC and hundreds of other stealth groups grab every lousey cent they can, by whatever means....some of it for the settlements. Some for bribing Ohlmert, evidently.
Americans, who clearly detest our support of Israel,evident since the Carter book, and in polls, should put a stop to this, and surely will when the neocons that infested the Bush admninistraiton are gone.
Iran as a nuclear threat is ludicrous, if Iran or Syria were a terrorist state, like Israel, they could easily infect dozens with Ebola, and small pox and march them through major Israeli cities and bring Israel to its knees, but there are no real terror threats in the Middle East compared to the Balkans, 200,000 Muslims dead at the hands of Christians or Iraq where 600,000-1,000,000 have died at the hands of “allies” in two absurd invasions.
Apartheid and Israel celebrate their 60th anniversaries a few weeks apart, just two interpretations of the same oppression.
May Israel suffer the same fate as their victims, unless they return all that they stole.
Israel was given land that belonged to someone else and whose only claim was that it was promised to the Jews by God. Israel has treated the former citizens of that land little better than the Nazis treated the Jews of Europe. Israel has dragged the US into every stinking conflict that it has been involved in. Without the Funds that the US gives Israel the country wouldnt have lasted 10 years, yet Iraels continues to spy on the US. Israel is smaller than Florida, is a desert and represent what amounts to nothing more than a cult (based on shear numbers)religion.
I have to ask a simple question. Who cares? The relationship has been NOTHING but trouble for the US.
It is like the guy you go out to bar with to have a few drinks but he forgets his money so you have to buy all his drinks then he gets into a fight that he drags you into and even though you save his fanny from not one but 10 guys he still ends up getting sick in your car and gets insulted when you ask him to leave.
Israel can survive, but here's the thing: What do the Jews really want? This is an important question, because if you read the Old Testament, the borders are clear, and all who are not Jews are to be driven out. No intermarriage, no hanging out, and no Jews outside of Israel. They are supposed to all be in Israel.
But how realistic is that? How realisitic that all Jews will leave their part of the world and go to Israel?
It's over.
The true solution is for the Israelites to understand that their covenant with God is over.
The New Covenant, as described in the New Testament, is here and forever.
The entire situation makes me think of a transplant patient. Israel is like the transplanted organ from an incompatible donor patient. The patient -- the Muslim countries surrounding it -- is deathly ill from the comorbid diseases of rampant poverty and ignorance, with subsequent lack of modern resources and institutions. The state of Israel avoids being totally 'rejected' by the surrounding tissues through the use of massive doses of immuno-suppressant 'drugs' (U.S. money and weapons, flowing not just into Israel, but to her Arab neighbors). I guess that makes America the doctors and nurses trying to keep the patient alive -- or, at least, not dead.
Indeed, by this (admittedly strained) analogy, we Americans make a very strange 'healer.' We seem much more concerned with the health and well-being of the organ, and less so towards the patient as a whole. We also appear motivated by cannibalism, or vampyrism, as we feed off the host, sucking the life force (oil) from her veins. Not too much -- we don't want to kill her! -- but, we are hungry, so very, very hungry.
Forty years is a long time to maintain such a precarious balancing act. In a somewhat more 'real world' scenario, where concern for the patient is paramount, we would be frantically looking for a more compatible donor. And we would, of course, need to change our eating habits.
So many of the comments above show you have been duped. The Palistinians have been the most dependent,(depending on Europe, Iran, Saudis, etc.for all of their money), the most helpless (why form a real government when being choatic brings in more charity), etc., etc.
I agree 100% with Yossi. Why should the Palistinians want autonomy when it would only lead to being grown up and responsible. Please don't fall for the "poor arab" stuff you have been spoon fed by the media.
As far as "stolen land" , you should read your history books. The U.N. Partition after WWII called for a two state solution. The Arabs choose to fight instead of negotiate...sound familiar?
I completely agree with Melman. I also like how he confronted the question with tact and most of all historical knowledge. I do think that it is an absurd question. The other people who reviewed need to remove the anti-semitic chip off of their shoulders. There is nothing lacking in Melman's brief yet balanced point on the subject. How much do you actually want him to cover in such a complicated situation involving a contraversial issue, fully loaded with history and current events on a website? You do not have to agree, but at least be fair.
I completely agree with Melman. I also like how he confronted the question with tact and most of all historical knowledge. I do think that it is an absurd question. The other people who reviewed need to remove the anti-semitic chip off of their shoulders. There is nothing lacking in Melman's brief yet balanced point on the subject. How much do you actually want him to cover in such a complicated situation involving a contraversial issue, fully loaded with history and current events on a website? You do not have to agree, but at least be fair.
The Economist (April 12th-18th 2008): "Only after years of occupying the Palestinians, did Jewish Israelis start opening their eyes to the destruction that they themselves visited on another people in their attempt to create a refuge from the vast evil done to them."
My hope is that Jewish Israelis would open their eyes wide enough, start treating Palestinians like human beings, and learn to stand tall on their own. The umbilican cord has to be cut eventually.
A brilliant question that was answered with a stupid response.
Have we forgotten Irgun and Lehi, the two zionist terrorist groups that between the 30's and 1948 bombed and killed the hell out of the Birtish Mandate troops, UN employees and their families, Palestinian civilians? Now Israel clamors against the same type of horrors as the ones they executed.
Big "J" said it best...."live by the sword, die by the sword" Israel used the very same tactics (and worst) on the Paslestinians that now they the Palestinians use on them. Fair is fair.
How a NATION can stand here, in the public eye of reason and expect anyone to accept a "happy" nation while thousands of refugees live in misery and squalor after their land was taken away by foreigners?
And when did a "REAL" democracy anywhere in the world requires for you to be of an specific faith and ethnic background in order to immigrate? That is not a democracy, it is a THEOCRACY, which at best puts Israel at the same level as Iran.
And why is it that Israel hates Europe so much, yet the moment anyone questions the legitimacy of the their "democracy" they immediately try to fence it off by comparing themselves with Western democracies?
I say:
- Take Old Jerusalem from Israel, turn it into a city state like the Vatican and put the UN right smack in the middle of it and under its control and supervision. That will settle things.
Good response. Israel, despite the threat of being obliterated again and again by Iranian President and other Muslims, has indeed thrived and the Israelis have stopped complaining and whining about Nazis and Muslims and built a better life for themselves, including millions of Muslims inside it.
Meanwhile, the other Middle Eastern states follow Islamic holy book and have been become intolerant of other religions and cultures. They survive only due to their ill-gotten oil wealth.
Yossi, you sound unhinged. Israel only exists with US support. As US power wanes and China takes over our spot Israel will fade too. There is nothing inherent in Israel that will allow it to succeed against its enemies. Tourism will not buy tanks.
Yasher Koach Mr. Melman. It is an idiotic question. But I think you are too modest with regard to Israel's accomplishments in the face of constant war and absorption of immigrants who have been traumatized to varying degrees by either Christians or Moslems. Israel has nothing to apologize for; instead, Europe, the U.S. and the Arab world have a lot of apologizing to do to Israel. If you're looking for one simple answer to why such an outrageous question was asked, I'd say it was oil at $125 a barrel. But if any country comes up with a way to neutralize the Arab/oil threat, it will be the Jewish geniuses in Israel. You are absolutely correct:the Palestinians are victims of two things: reckless invasions of Israel by ineffective armies, and horrendous leadership that "never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." (Abba Eban)
Never let facts interfere with your judgement, Yossi. I don't recall any of the countries you mentioned having been created from the single greatest NAKED land grab in the past two centuries. Israel won't be around to reach 100 because it will singularly be responsible for a nuclear or biological conflict in the region probably also responsible for the eradication of the human race.
Notice how he says Israel is as good as any other "true democratic nation". What's implicit here is that because of this democracy Israel is superior- and more Western and civilized- than all those backwards countries that hate it. Have seen this racist argument over and over. "Sharon was legitimately elected while your Arafat is a dictator, therefore Israel and Israelis are superior to you backwards brown skinned Palestinians."
Israel should feel the heat, it has taken, taken, & taken some more, it has unethically influenced our US government, and sucked at the US teat like a hungry lion cub on a golden retriever. Americans are sick of it, and of course Israel's response is to suck harder.
An awful lot of Americans have gone from Israel supporters to Israel questioners, even while Israel has her boot on the neck of the US media's corporate overlords to prevent most negative news from ever getting airplay. Israel Lobby has ridden the backs of foolish American evangelicals to put a war monger in the White House, people here are sick of that too.
Israel will likely be here in 40 years - definitely, yes. And we will be so damned sick of her ways by then that she won't have a friend left.
Hang in there Palestinians, never forget, never give up!
What nation is not born in blood? And what is the statute of limitations on historical grudges?
Israel's reason for existence is no more or less legitimate, or controversial, than most any other nation's.
Peace in the Middle East will only happen with economic prosperity. Without prosperity, people are left only with their religion. And we can see the effect of religious leadership around the world.
The poor people of Palestine need to wake up and realize they have been duped into perpetuating a war that only serves to glorify their hawkish leaders. The question of Israel's legitimacy means nothing when you realize they have nuclear weapons. Give up this useless war and make a deal, so that Palestinians can go about building some kind of future for themselves.
I am amazed by how overly sensitive Muslims can be. Why don't you stop worrying about that sliver of land called Israel and worry about why hundreds of millions of you, from Africa, to the Middle East, to Asia all live in poverty (except those whose wealth simply gushes from the ground).
Perhaps there is something the Muslim world can learn from the Jews.
Future of Israel in the Middle East is not going to be determined by the status quo which exists there today. Nor by a lot of wishful thinking on the part of commentators who have fallen in love with the Jewish State.
Political commentators should know what distinguishes a good commentary from confused or wishful thinking. The mark of a good analysis is that it will inevitably shed light on future trends and likely course of events.
Middle East is what it is and what it has been for many generations: home to a great multitude of Arabs and Moslems. If Jews want to risk living like a tiny implant of the Western culture in this tumultuous sea of humanity; then they will have to put up with much more than just Hamas, Hezbollah or the distant threat from Iran.
The dangers to the continued existence of a dominant Jewish state in Palestine are much closer at hand. They are as yet latent to wishful observers of Israeli politics. These dangers are far more ominous than the present day inconveniences experienced by Israel today. The currently imagined threats to the existence of the Jewish State from Iranian support for the Hezbollah and Hamas pale in comparison to what likely is in store for Israel.
To start with, let us take Israel's immediate and well-behaved neighbours; Jordan and Egypt. Imagine how tables will be turned and untenable it will become for Jews to stay in Israel if there were an Islamic coup in Jordan or Egypt.
Then there are other Arab countries closer to Palestine and in North Africa. What would Israel and its friends do if say Algerians start feeling strong solidarity with the suffering Palestinians and show even more hostility against the Jewish State than the Iranians. Algerians are after all Arabs themselves unlike the Iranians.
The same can also happen in Morocco and Tunisia. And then nothing could stop the tsunami wave of concrete anti-Israeli hatred crashing in from the western front.
This would be the nightmare scenario for the Jews now living in Palestine. And that is even before the rich Arab states to the east of Palestine get in the anti-Jewish arena and participate with their oil riches in the bid to dismantle the state of Israel.
The above takes into account only a more obvious portion of what will happen if Arabs in the vicinity of Palestine begin to stir and act in solidarity with Palestine. There are other countries, potentially no less menacing, nearby like Yemen and Somalia. The people of those countries would be no less eager to put to an end the decades-long humiliation Arabs have suffered because of Israel's existence in their midst.
Beyond that you have the Islamic countries. There is no doubt that some of them, like Pakistan, will also join in and do their best to make life impossible for the Jews living a privileged life in Palestine.
Israelis and everybody else in the West would definitely get something to think about when the vast sea of Arabs and Moslems surrounding the Jewish State loses it deceptive calm and erupts into a furious storm . They will then forget all about the imaginary existential threats posed to Israel by Iran or the Hezbollah, which dominate the news these days.
For Jews in Israel to cherish long-term peace they will have to, sooner or later, humble themselves to the Arab level. They would have to accept Palestinians as equals with the same rights to land and settlement in all of the original Palestine as Jews. They would have to consent to the Palestinian refugees' right of return.
The Jewish state would have to undergo a major transformation to avoid further wars with its neighbours so that Jews can live in relative peace in the Holy Land.
The alternative to the above is a gradual and irreversible dilution of the Jewishness of Israel, when Jews now living in Palestine would start preferring peaceful and permanent residence elsewhere rather than in the unruly Middle East.
Another (unlikely) alternative is an eventual war of annihilation with even worse consequences for all concerned.
So, if only the Palestinians would accept Israel and forget that over one and one/half million Palestinians were either forcible ejected or left Palestine out of fear of physical violence in 1948, and that the large tracts of the West Bank have been taken for Israeli settlements which continue to expand at the expense of the Palestinians, that no compensation has been given or ever be given to those whose lands, house, etc, have been confiscated without legal process, that they continue to live in the worlds largest prison without hope of a better life, Israel will be happy and content at 100.
Mr. Melman, time is on the side of the Palestinians and eventually their population will significantly outnumber Israelis. What then? What kind of people will the Israelis be when they continue to subjugate and to practice collective guilt reprisals against the Palestinians over the next 40 years? Perhaps, that is the proper question: What kind of people will the Israelis be in another 40 years?
I don’t think the majority of the world’s people, including the United States, will like what they see.
It would be very helpful if the Palestinians would recognize an obvious fact: there is much more to be gained by cooperating with Israel than by fighting.
If the Palestinians had accepted the right of existence of Israel from the very beginning, instead of fighting wars and the Intifada, there would not have been any settlements and the Palestinians could have achieved a standard of living comparable to that of Israel.
There have been many opportunities for the Arabs to start on the path of cooperation but they listened instead to Arafat and the other demagogues who steered them to "resistance."
There are so many untruths that even highly sophisticated "experts' like Mr. Melman continue to spread. Israel was founded for the reasons he says, but on other people's land, imposed by all foreigners after the humiliation of several centuries of foreign domination and colonialism. Israel also speaks of itself as being a victim, but Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were terrorists, bombing, killing and provoking Arabs long before Israel was formed. Then hundreds of Arab villages were eradicated, a fact hidden until recent Israeli historians wrote of this shameful history that Jews tried to hide. Always the victim, never the propagator, huh?
And Israel's formation goes against the full tide of western civilization, in which Jews have made a huge and positive contribution. The Reformation was about separating religion and government, whereas Israel is a religiously defined secular state that discriminates against non-Jews, despite what anybody says.
And why are Arabs killed in a ratio that oscillates between 10:1 and 30:1 over Jews? The numbers are awful, all according to B T'Selem (spelling?) Only more dirty Israeli tricks will avoid the demographic destruction of Israel.
He objects to the question? Typically Israeli right-wing arrogance, only possible due to the open spigot at the US treasury Israeli has been dependent on from the start. Daoud Kuttab’s response in this series makes a lot more sense. Peace in the Middle East would be wonderful, but it won’t happen until Israeli ends its apartheid and both sides end their terrorist murder of innocents. Not in our lifetimes, I’m afraid.
Yes, settled millions of foreigners on stolen land.
There is a key difference between Israel and many of the other states Yossi Melman is trying to compare it to. That is that Israel was birthed through a criminal act: Expulsion of indigenous people. IE: Ethnic Cleansing. It is the Israelis, not the Palestinians who are in denial for failing to recognize this. And it takes a remarkable shamelessness to talk about "the historical desire of Jews to return to their ancient homeland" while simeltaneously denying the Palestinians the same.
The longer Israelis keep their head in the sand and pretend like they are like every other legitimate country, the longer the conflict will continue.
I agree, the question asked is outrageous. Whoever asked it sounds as if they're trying to spark defensiveness.
My question to the questioner: Israel will be here, but will the UN?
Mr. Melman as long "defenfing itself" doesn't mean receiving billions of dollars, courtesy of our tax dollars, then I can trust Israel can thrive and prosper all by itself. Many other descriptions portray Israel as a modern and advanced society with a serious military punch, if so then there is no need for your country to ask us for funding as we need this money at home, now more than ever.
It would also help a little if you lose that antagonistic attitude and understand that you need to go with the times and not against it.
My best wishes for Israel and Palestine to achieve a truly everlasting peace and that you two can coexist in a civilized manner. The entire world, which bears the brunt of your unfortunate actions will thank you.
PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions for PostGlobal to Lauren Keane, its editor and producer.
All Comments (144)
Iran will declare the details of its nuclear program when Isreal does the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Die a painful death you dirty Jews!!!!!!!!
June 2, 2008 7:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on June 2, 2008 19:13
If I only had a bit more time; there would now be peace in the middle east. DEATH TO ISRAEL.
Eva, I miss you.
May 23, 2008 5:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 23, 2008 17:18
FUCY YOU ISRAEL! Americans hate you.
May 23, 2008 5:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 23, 2008 17:14
When all Jews in Israel are dead; there will finally be peace in the middle east.
Additionally; please stop referring to Israel as a U.S. ally. The U.S. is certainly a useful tool to Israel; but not an ally!
May 21, 2008 6:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 21, 2008 18:00
.
http://www.astronomy2009.*org//////
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA USA!!!
VOTOS CLINTON's then OBAMA's !
STOP THE WAR STOP THE WAR!!
VOTOS CLINTON's then McCAIN's!
VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!
VOTOS CLINTONs then OBAMA's!
PEACE,,PAZ,,SALAAM,,SHALOM......._____________________
http:///SOULUTiON-EXPERiENCE-ACTiON ThankYou AMERICA!
.
May 20, 2008 6:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 20, 2008 18:38
How was the Apartheid israel established in 1947/8? Was Palestine a land withou people in 1948?
Where are the 80% of the population of PAlestine live now after it was ethnically cleanesed by jewish terrorist gangs such as Hgahnah,Irgun,Palmah and Irgun??
Why did these jewish terror gangs destroy over 600 PAlestinian towns and village from which the PAlestinians were ethnically cleanesed in 1947/8?
Read jewish hsitorians such Ilan Pappe,Shabtai Teveth,Beni Morris on jewih ethnic cleanesing of Palestinians.
More importantly see WWW.PALNDS.ORG for full coverage of the question of Palestine.
May 20, 2008 5:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 20, 2008 17:58
Its very interesting to analyze the selection of featured comments, indeed goes to show the neutrality out here!! What else should I have expected...
I am simply amazed at how many people in the West think that a peaceful solution to Israel is based on the realities and practical assesssment by Palestinians!! Well, the same was forgotten at the time of creation of Israel but it is being imposed upon Palestinans so stongly for the last 60 years!!
If any one thinks that Hamas accepting Israel will result in peace for Israel, its simply out of question. Israel and in particular its allies have to understand the whole thought process of Palestinians as well as Muslims throughout the world. They will never accept Israel unless they are convinced of its justification for its creation. For that to happen, you need to have a global neutral media where the case is strongly advocated against debates from its opponents. A sustained process of such debates against its enemies even those who want to wipe it off the face will earn respect and knowledge about the issue. It will separate facts from opinions and give each individual whether pro-Israeli or anti-Israel a chance to develop his / her own opinion.
I hope the above advice is pursued otherwise we will all live in our brain washed thoughts (for both sides of the conflict) forever!!
May 19, 2008 8:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 19, 2008 08:43
Mike Wallace: PLEASE commit yourself to a mental institution!!!
DEATH TO ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 17, 2008 6:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 17, 2008 18:29
washingtonpost.com > World > Middle East Your Comments On...
On Mideast Trip, Bush Emphasizes Commitment to Peace Deal
SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt, May 17 -- President Bush sought to assure Arabs on Saturday that he is committed to securing an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal by the end of the year, as he arrived at this Red Sea resort for a quick round of consultations with key allies.
- By Michael Abramowitz
Commentsrw1231 wrote:

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- Yea, I am the AMEN, and I am the glory called god, for I am god, and I dwell eternally forever, and ever true, for I shall live eternal of myself, through my (god) eternal true son, who is called Jesus christ, forever.
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--------- The Judgment of The Nations -------------
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Part 1 w/ 138 verses--------------All nations
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1 Many people, in the earth, they have desired, to understand, and to know, that which cometh upon the earth, as being forever seen.
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2 And, I (god) do say, that most surely, in those seen nations, who hate my great, eternal, true name. As found, as being Jesus christ, as being, forever true,
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3 They are seen, unto me forever. As being forever true, in satanism forever sure. And, they are seen, as being death unto me forever. And, they are, simply, unrepentifully and unjustly, in unrepentifulness,
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4 As being forever truly found, as being faithfully forever true, of themselves, as forever seen. In being against, all that I am, as I am god, as forever seen and true.
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5 And, those beguiled, true nations. They are seen unto me, as being forever true. As being non christian nations, forever. And those nations (not speaking of Israel),
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6 They shall see vexation of spirit and suffering and great end time famine, and great pestilence, and great war, forever.
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7 Yet, they shall see many other things, from their personal, true treasures. That are found in their own, desired, damminly true treasures,
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8 That are treasures in death forever. That are called, their desired true death, in Satanism, as being forever seen and forever sought, by the damned ones, forever.
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9 And, those beastly true nations, they are found unto me, in death, as being forever seen. And, they are seen, unto me forever. As forever seen, as satan, forever, and they are seen and felt, unto me,
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10 As their desired and most true death, as forever true. And, they are considered of me, forever. To be as dead as satan is dead, unto me, forever,
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11 And, they, the damned in satan himself, forever. They are seen and found, in utter true shame and utter true contempt, as being forever seen. And they are seen, of eternal living forever, true damnation,
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12 And they do worship, as faithfully forever true, within themselves, forever, eternal living forever, true death. As found, given unto themselves, from satan himself, as being forever true.
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13 And, this earth, it is found, fallen in, and, unto satan himself. As satan, has became, as a false idol god, unto the damned forever. And it is found, and seen,
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14 By the damned, as being forever true, of the damned ones, forever. As they, the damned in satanism, as being forever seen by me forever.
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15 That they do choose satan, as satan being their false idol god, as forever true of themselves. As they give of themselves,
forever, unto satan, forever.
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16 And this earth, as found, unto satan himself, as being forever seen in satan true death, as being forever sure, in death, as being forever true.
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17 Then, those non christian true nations of the earth, as they are seen, as being: “Fallen, unrepentiful, ungodly true nations of the earth“,
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18 And those nations, they are found by me, in death, as being forever seen. And they shall be perplexed with signs following, For those nations,
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19 They are beastly by human fallen nature, forever. And they do refuse, unjustly, as forever true, to ever know me (god), as forever seen, as I am their true god, forever.
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20 And, again, those beastly eternal, damminly true nations, in death forever. As found, unto satan, as being forever seen. If, they shall refuse, to know my son, who called christ, as their savior, forever,
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21 And, who (christ Jesus) is with my heavenly true salvation, that I have created, from my (god) own, eternal, true Love. As being forever seen, in me, as forever true.
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22 And that salvation, it is given of me, for all fallen true men, forever. And that salvation, that is called christ Jesus. It is given, that repentiful true men, may arise and cleanse themselves, by calling on the name of god,
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23 As that name, is found. As my eternal, living forever, true son. And, who is called, “Jesus Christ”. As being forever seen, of myself, as forever truly seen.
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24 If, those non christian-unrepentiful true nations, who hate me, forever. Shall not repent in christ Jesus, forever.
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25 Then, those beguiled in satan, true nations. They are called death. And those, beguiled, most true nations, they shall all be clean dissolved, by me forever, or unto they accept and repent, by receiving christ, forever,
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26 As christ Jesus, being their personal, living forever, true savior. And who is from me (god), as being forever faithfully forever true, with my heavenly true salvation,
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27 That is found, given of me (god), as eternally forever and ever true, of me, forever. And it is true, for all of given true eternity, forever.
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28 Many antichrist, true nations, they are found unto me forever. In their own, personal, true choices, found in life and death.
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29 And those choices, they are found, unto me, as being forever true, and it is true, by their own, eternal, living forever, true hands,
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30 And it is true, that they, either chose christ Jesus, for the heavenly true salvation, that is given of me (god), as being forever seen.
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31 Or they chose not to receive christ Jesus, forever. And, which is seen, in being forever certain, of themselves, unto me, forever.
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32 And those nations, if they shall reject christ Jesus, forever. Then they shall die unto me forever,
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33 Then, my, great, living eternal, given and being given, righteous, holy true judgments. They shall be found of me forever, as given by me forever,
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34 As given of me as being forever seen in judgment forever. And it is a fiery given judgment of me (god), that is recompense, that is called granted true death, forever,
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35 And that true death, it shall be found given of me, upon and unto those blasphemous eternal true nations, that are called satan forever,
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36 And who are seen. As being, blasphemous eternal true nations of death, forever,
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37 And, granted true death, it is found, given of me, as being forever seen. As, given by me forever, unto those satan nations. As they are found by me forever, in satan forever. And those nations, they are,
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38 Found unto me, forever. As being forever certain, in satan forever. And they are found, unto me. As being forever true, as being found, as being truly beastly.
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39 And, they are seen unto me forever. As being, a anti god, true image, unto me. As being faithfully forever seen, in themselves. As their desired true death, as found in satan, forever.
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40 And, those non christian nations, as found in their death, as being forever seen true death. As found, as being. A fallen beastly stone image, of given, unrepentiful to receive god, beastly forever, true seen sin,
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41 That seen sin, it is found unto me forever. In being unrepentifully forever true, in being against me. As a seen, true sinfulness, as being forever seen, and is seen, in them, that perish unto me in their satanism, forever.
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42 All beastly, eternal, true nations. They are found, unto me forever true. As being anti god and as being anti christ forever true nations of the earth forever,
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43 And those nations, they are found unto me, in satan. As being forever seen, in granted true death, as forever true.
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44 And, they are seen, unto me. As being, found in their desired and most true death. As true death in satan, is found, working within themselves,
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45 As being found, as truly being satanism, as being forever true of themselves forever, and, that work in satan that is found themselves, it is forever heard as being a blasphemous eternal image of death forever.
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46 And, they, the damned in satan forever, they are most surely heard, as being eternal true sin, as being forever true, in all that I am not as god forever.
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47 And, they shall die, unto me forever, as being forever true. In their desired, and most true death, as forever seen. That is working true death, that worketh against me forever.
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48 And, they are truly, forever seen, in death forever. And they are seen unto me forever. As being, eternally forever true. As satan true sin, as being eternally forever true sin, forever.
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49 And they are seen by me forever, as death, and they are in agreement with me forever, for that true death and they are in agreement with hell forever, for true death forever.
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50 And, in true death, they shall never awake, after that great judgments of eternal just judgments, has occurred, forever. And they shall never awake, again, to live, afterwards (after that great Judgment called life), and forever.
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51 In true death, the damned ones of this fallen, true earth, forever. They shall be casted by me, away from me, as being forever true,
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52 And they shall be casted into eternal hell fire, that burneth, as being forever seen, as god in judgment, forever. For I am, god in judgment, as being forever true,
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53 And I am true, unto all of the wicked ones of the earth forever, as I am forever seen and heard, in Jesus christ, as being forever seen.
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54 And, in hell, is their seen eternal true reward. That is called life,
that they have made unto themselves. As being forever seen. As a seen image, called death forever.
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55 And that image, as made by the damned ones, as being forever seen, by me forever true. It is called: “Wanted true death, for me (me is the word sinner), in satan forever,
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56 As I (I is the sinner person) am a found sinner, unto god, as being forever true of myself (myself is the word sinner), forever“.
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57 And, unto all sinners, who are found unto me, as being forever true, as found in satan (all true sinners), forever. They shall, be forever seen.
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58 And they shall be seen by me, as being faithfully forever seen, In that great eternal, and most mighty and true day. That is called god in judgment, unto satan, forever,
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59 And, those sinners in satan forever. They all, shall receive their seen true reward. That is called, hell fire, forever. And that reward, it is found,
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60 As given of me, unto them, in that great unending true day, that is most forever seen, as being seen, truly forever true. And that day, it is seen. As being most eternal,
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61 For I am most eternal, saith thy god, as being eternally forever and ever true. For I am eternal, and I live forever. And the forever, it is me (god), forever.
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62 In that day, that is glorious in me, forever. The damned, they shall pass back into the earth, in spiritual and physical, true death. As being forever seen, and, as being forever, eternally seen, in death, forever true.
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63 Therefore, that passing into eternal forever death. It shall be written by me (god), as being: “They the damned, they are written back into the earth forever, as they truly do desire, Unrepentiful true death, forever“.
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64 That death, it is desired by the damned ones, forever. And, it is desired by the damned forever. As being, true death, forever. And that true death,
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65 It is also seen, as being in satanism forever. And, it is seen, as being forever seen by me, forever. And it is found, in true death, unto me, forever .
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66 That death, it is from being found guilty in unrepentiful true trespasses and unrepentiful true sins, that are unrepentifully forever seen,
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67 As being against me (god), as being forever true. For those desired sins, are desired forever, by the damned, as being forever seen by me, forever.
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68 And, they are found unto me forever. As being against receiving my eternal son, who is called “Christ As Savior, Forever”.
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69 Eternal death, as found in the damned forever, it seen. As being, unholy and unrighteous, spiritual true works, that is found in satan’s true death, forever.
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70 And that death, in the damned forever. It is found, in satan, as being, forever seen, as true death, as forever true. And it is desired, as being faithfully forever seen, by the lost unto me forever.
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71 And that true death, in the damned, it is seen by me forever true. As being forever true, and, forever seen. And that death, it is seen, to be as satan is dead, forever.
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72 And satanism, seen true works, as found in their desired true death, as being forever seen by me forever. It is called true death, and those works of satan and of the beast, whom (beast is the word man), is called man, as forever seen.
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73 It is forever seen, and, is forever found, in satan, himself, as granted true death, from me, as being forever true death. And that true death, it is forever seen,
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74 As seen in the damned, as being forever true death, forever. And the damned, and, with satan himself, together, and with satan’s true kind, who (kind is all fallen angels) are called devils, they are all together, as seen and called: ’As being the beast”, forever.
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75 And they are found, unto me, as being forever certain. As being in satanism unto me, as being forever true of themselves, in the service of their faithful and true worship unto satan and to satan‘s kind, forever.
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76 And they are forever seen. And they are seen in death, forever. And, all ungodly, antichrist, true nations. As they are found by me, as forever sure, as being seen by me, in their, seen sin, forever.
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77 And they are found by me, forever. As being forever true, as being seen, in eternal true works, found in death forever. And, it is seen, as heavenly true death. As being forever certain and ever lasting, forever true.
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78 And, they the damned and all fallen true nations. They are found unto me forever, as being in satan forever. And they, are also found unto me forever,
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79 In unholy, and, in unrighteous physical true works, that are called, eternal true death, forever.
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80 Those unrepentiful true nations in satan forever. They are even found unto me, as found. In their manifesting, of: “Unrepentiful, true sinful true works“, That is called granted true death, forever.
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81 And granted true death forever. It is being found forever granted, to them, who are found in satanism, as being eternally forever true of themselves,
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82 As they are found unto me, in the service of satan. As being forever true of themselves forever.
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83 And, if they be found unto me forever, in satanism, as being eternally forever true of themselves, in satan‘s true death, as being forever seen. Then they shall die unto all that is me in christ Jesus,
forever.
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84 And, through the judgment of the nations, my eternal just judgments. They are given by me, through christ Jesus, forever true, unto all nations,
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85 who are all non christian nations of the earth forever. That are seen unto me forever. As being, in satanism, as being forever true and ever lasting forever, of themselves, forever.
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86 And I shall damn them all non christian nations forever, who are considered by me, as being, rejectful to me, true nations, forever. And, they shall die unto me, as being forever true of themselves, forever,
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87 And, in this judgment of the nations, as being forever seen, upon the unrepentiful forever seen and true, non christian nations, forever, who are judged,
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88 As they will never repent and receive christ Jesus my eternal true son, who is with life, that is called god, forever.
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89 Then any of those nations, who are found unto me, as being forever certain, as that nation or nations that will never repent and receive christ forever.
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90 Then that nation and or nations, they shall die unto me forever seen, as being forever true. As being forever eternally forever true. And, they are considered by me, as being forever certain,
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91 As themselves, in being dead unto me, as forever true, and, as being forever seen, in death, forever true. And, they shall be seen, unto me, as being forever certain, and, true forever, in their sin, as being forever seen.
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92 Therefore, end time judgment. It is given of me (god), and is found, of me (god), worthily, unto whom, end time judgments, are forever, righteously forever due, unto. And that judgment, it is forever truly seen.
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93 And all end time judgments, are called life and death, forever. Therefore, let all nations, chose me, or they shall die unto me forever,
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94 And that decision, it must be made quickly, saith thy eternal one, who is seen, and is called, the lord thy god, forever.
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95 In these true days, forever. All ungodly nations, they shall be judged by me forever. And I will hold them accountable, for the deeds that they do perform,
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96 As they do perform those deeds, against me, as being found by me, as being forever true of themselves. As they are found by me, in satanism forever.
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97 And, those, ungodly true deeds, as found, as being true toward me. As they themselves, are seen by me forever true. In that they do perform those deeds, unto me, as being forever true of themselves in satan forever.
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98 And those true deeds, they are seen. As being, in satan eternally forever true. And those ungodly blasphemous true deeds, they shall be recompense back,
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99 Unto themselves, as measured unto themselves, in true punishment, from me, as being forever true, of me forever certain.
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100 And, most certainly, measured true punishment, it is given to themselves, from me, as being forever seen true punishment. And that true punishment,
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101 It is seen, as being forever true, from me, as being forever and eternally seen, true punishment. That is called god forever,
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102 And that true punishment. That is called god forever. It is seen, and is called dead death, as being forever seen, and it is now, found on the earth, and in hell, forever.
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103 And that eternal, most true punishment, it is from me forever true. And it is seen, as being true in me forever. And it is, given most surely, unto themselves, as being forever seen, true judgment, forever,
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104 And that eternal ever lasting true punishment, it is called eternal dead death forever. And it is from me forever. And I, the lord of heaven and earth, forever,
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105 I the lord, I do hold all nations, accountable, for their seen sins. That they, do against all, that is me, as I am creation, as forever seen.
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106 And I, shall damn all non christian true nations of the earth forever, that will not receive Jesus christ, forever. And I will send a fire, from me, unto all of them, forever. And I will give death and dissolving and great punishment,
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107 Unto those devil nations, as they are found unto me, as being in satanism forever, as they are seen by me, forever. In their seen true sins, that is called: “I (I is the sinner) desire death, as being forever true“.
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108 And, through the judgment of the nations. If these ungodly, true, non christian nations of the earth, forever, shall not repent and be baptized, in the son, who is called, Jesus christ,
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109 Then they have most surely, bought upon themselves, and, upon all of their seen children. Death and great eternal, blasting, true destruction, from me, as being forever true of me forever,
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110 And I (god) will destroy them with their seen sins, forever. And even those nations, that trust in their false idol gods, I (god) shall shame those nations, by making those nations, see,
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111 That without christ, they shall die, forever. And that in trusting their idols, that they have bought great dissolving true judgment, from me (god), as being forever true, upon themselves, as being forever seen.
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112 And, those satan true nations in satanism forever. They shall become greatly angered at their false idols, which hath not life forever. And they shall revolt against their false, seen and hidden idols of falsehood.
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113 And those nations which shall not repent, by receiving Jesus christ, as christ Jesus, being their savior, as being forever seen. Then, they shall die unto me (god) forever,
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114 And their seed shall die unto me (god) forever, unless they repent in christ Jesus, forever.
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115 These false nations, they are not, true nations of life, that is called christ, unto me (god), forever. And without christ, in them. They shall die unto me forever.
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116 And I will judge them forever, if they destroy not their seen idols, forever. And if they accept not Jesus christ, as this Jesus being their seen savior, from me, forever,
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117 And without christ Jesus being their seen savior forever. Then they are seen unto me, as being faithfully forever seen, as being seen in satanism,
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118 As being forever true, and they are forever found, unto me forever true. In their desired true death, forever certain.
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119 And I, and I shall, trumpet, unto those ungodly, true nations, that are found unto satan himself, forever, and that are found by me, in their desired true death,
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120 As being forever true of themselves. As they are found unto me, in their desired, true, iniquity. That is called sin, forever.
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121 And those satan true nations, they must, therefore, all repent unto me, as being forever true of themselves, forever. Or they shall die unto me, as being forever true.
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122 And, they must repent, quickly at this time of the fallen true earth, forever, and turn unto me forever. And I am seen, as: “The god of truth“, forever.
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123 And, as I am truth forever. Those nonchristian, true rebellious, seen nations, as they are found unto me and found by me, in their seen satanism, forever. They must turn unto me, as being forever true,
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124 And, through, my eternal, and most true judgment, that is called: “The judgment of the nations“. If they, shall not repent, unto me, as being forever seen,
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125 As being quickly seen in repenting to me now, and, as being forever true. Then I shall cause war and or plagues and or famines,
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126 To seek out those ungodly true nations. That are nations, that are found unto me, in death, as being forever true, of themselves forever.
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127 And I will destroy them forever. And I shall even cause their pleasant true skies, to flee away from them, forever. And I shall stop the rain, unto them, forever,
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128 And I shall stop the snow unto them, and I shall cause their crops to die, unto them. And all their animals, shall die, unto me, and I shall fight against those satanism true ones, as forever seen.
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129 And I (god) shall call fire out of the sky to devour them, in all their seen labors. That is found in this satan true life, forever.
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130 And, those ungodly, true, non christian nations. That are found unto satanism, forever. They shall cease to exist, in the earth, forever,
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131 Unless they repent and receive Jesus christ, as christ Jesus, being their seen savior, forever.
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132 Therefore, let your false gods, and let satan give you life forever. And in his (satan) hand of life, thou shalt die in his tainted true life, forever, for in sin, thou art already found in satan himself, forever.
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133 And satan’s true hand of life, it isn’t christly true life, as found in me forever, but it is truly found unto me forever, as death forever,
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134 And in satan, thou art already cursed with death and thou shalt die forever, unless thou renounce satan forever, by accepting Jesus christ,
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135 As by, accepting Jesus christ, as thy seen, personal, living forever, true savior. As christ Jesus, is given of me forever, unto the earth, forever.
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136 Therefore, let all nations, consider, through the judgment of the nations. That they need to consider, their ways of blasphemous eternal true death, that is forever and ever upon them, forever,
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137 And that, they must repent, or I will destroy them, for desiring to be non christian nations of the earth, forever.
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138 And, in me, is the life called man and woman, as forever seen--therefore--repent--or thou shalt die unto me forever, saith thy god, who is thy creator, as forever seen.
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Roger wallace author of “THE GOD OF TRUTH”, found at: I-proclaim, isbn 978-1-60585-521-9.
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5/17/2008 5:57:07 PM
May 17, 2008 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 17, 2008 18:05
I am proud to be Anti-Irael! And so are my fellow U.S. citizens!
May 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 16, 2008 15:14
@ Mike Devlin:
Yes, there are many anti-semites in the US. Thank you for pointing that out (90%, no, but many). Are you trying to say that you would be proud to be counted as one?
@Ben Schlomo:
Nationalistic threats of death to all enemies adds nothing positive to the discussion. You find yourself precariously close to the level of those on this board who spew anti-jewish rhetoric. Please be more constructive.
@Ravi Chavez:
See comment to Ben Schlomo. You could have made your argument stronger without resorting to the Kill 'Em All approach.
May 16, 2008 3:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 16, 2008 15:02
Israel will survive longer than the U.S. We are a peaceful yet strong country. You in the U.S. will all die before we do. You do not know how to deal with the terrorist Muslims. We will kill them; you will die.
May 15, 2008 6:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 15, 2008 18:57
The only hope for peace in the middle east is the demise of Israel. If brought to a vote in the U.S., 90% of our citizens would vote to cut the funding of the Israel death machine; which is truly a terrorist state. The only people U.S. citizens hate more than Arabs is Jews. Take a poll; I know that I'm right!
May 15, 2008 6:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 15, 2008 18:53
Mike Santora says:
“Let's recap was Israel has done for the U.S.:
Jonathon Pollard
The Liberty Incident
AIPAC
Mid East Violence
Etc. Etc.”
This plus the billions of dollars in annual grants dumped on it as well as the uncritical blind support afforded it both militarily and politically had earned the USA the enmity of the Muslim world; 59 countries with 1.6 billion people who own most of the world‘s oil reserves. All this reinforces my thesis of long ago that Israel to the USA is as Delilah to Samson. If unchecked will bring about the demise of this giant.
May 15, 2008 5:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 15, 2008 05:42
If Israel is to survive as a Jewish state, a two state solution is required. Israel will need to withdrawal from much of the West Bank and Golan Heights, but it will reserve the right to protect itself from attacks as it currently does in Lebanon and Syria. Israel and the US must also prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, since the president of that country has repeatedly stated his desire to destroy Israel. I do not support Israel because it is a Jewish state or because it is a US ally, I support it because it is the most advanced and tolerant nation in the region.
May 14, 2008 9:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 21:48
Ben Schlomo: "The state of Israel has done everything in its power to live in peace with our neighbors... In order the live in peace, my country will kill every one of our enemies. The citizens of Israel are compassionate caring people. Do not stand in the way of our peace or you will die."
One cannot hope for a more Orwellian tirade than that!
May 14, 2008 7:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 19:40
Let's recap was Israel has done for the U.S.:
Jonathon Pollard
The Liberty Incident
AIPAC
Mid East Violence
Etc. Etc.
Any presidential candidate who runs in the U.S. on a platform of disengaging from Israel would win in a landslide. U.S. citizens hate the violent state of Irael!!!!
May 14, 2008 7:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 19:37
I cannot beieve the anti-semetic remarks being posted in this blog. The state of Israel has done everything in its power to live in peace with our neighbors. But like during the holocaust the prevailing theme of this blog seems to be death to the Jews. Have we not suffered enough. I had a fourth cousin die at the hands of the Nazis. Haven't I suffered enough because of the death in a family member. In order the live in peace, my country will kill every one of our enemies. The citizens of Israel are compassionate caring people. Do not stand in the way of our peace or you will die.
May 14, 2008 7:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 19:05
Yes, the question should not even be asked! Too scary for WP's Official Commentators. Let's keep silent and problems will disappear! Of course... Very wise. Very wise indeed! Keep it up!
May 14, 2008 6:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 18:30
Israel killed three more people in the Gaza strip this morning.
One a 17 year old boy riding his bike. The other two were civilians, too.
Israel loves to use it's American Arms, loves killing Palestinians. What a lovely bunch.
May 14, 2008 11:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 11:23
In discussing whether israel will, or should should survive 40 more years,
let us read the AP story this morning...
Israel is planning more settlements and expansions on the West Bank.
It was mentioned only in passing about Bush's trip where he had to avoid meeting the crooked Ohlmert, about to be indicted.
The quesiton HERE should be not if, but WHETHER, whether Israel should suvive much longer. I, for one, do not disagree with the rest of the world, (in the new,prominent BBC survey, showing that Israel is the least respected and most hated state in the world.
In the words, which is more important, Israel's greed and ugly desire to own Palestine and control all of the ME. Or the welfare of the rest of the world. Do we love genocide?
May 14, 2008 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 11:18
Jorge,
I am pro-Israel because Israel is our ally. I am pro-England, pro-Canada and pro-any country that is our friend.
Consider this. Israel is surrounded by countries that not only want its destruction but who sponsor terrorism against the US (19 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis as is bin Laden). Israel has been our staunchest ally in the war on terror, helping us get vital intelligence on terrorists. As I mentioned, they did our dirty work for us in attacking Iran's nuclear development facilities.
I would say that Israel's friendship is worth a great deal to us and is worth the relatively small amount of foreign aid we give it.
And for those who think that wiping Israel off the face of the earth (such as Joshua Arbol) will bring peace to the middle east, consider this: Israel is not responsible for Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the infighting in Iraq, the Iraq-Iran war, the tension between Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India (both of which are nuclear), and the general animosity between Shiites and Sunni Arabs. If anything, one may make the point that by being the sacrificial lamb that Muslims turn their animosity toward, Israel lessens the conflicts that would otherwise erupt among Shiites and Sunnis. Of course, with Iran's growing influence in Iraq and its desire to be the pre-eminent power in the middle east, we may see that conflict anyway. If that happens, the conflicts in Israel will seem small by comparison.
May 14, 2008 9:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 09:58
Wes Wienstein wrote:
"The anti Jewish remarks give me chills. Israel is a peaceful country.... "
This is another trick of the zionist types. They use the two word "Jewish" and "Israel" interchangably. Over the decades they have learned that people consider being anti-Jewish as bad. Therefore if we confuse the two words, then anti-Israeli is equivalent to anti-Jewish. That way the state of Israel can do anything it wants with impunity; because no one wants to be called an anti-semite. I think many people are figuring this out; and that scares the hell out of Wes Weinstein types.
May 14, 2008 9:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 14, 2008 09:39
Read the Old Testament. It is a testament as to how stupid the "main characters" were.
May 13, 2008 11:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 23:09
The anti Jewish remarks give me chills. Israel is a peaceful country meaning no harm to outsiders. Muslims who die in our conflicts are terrorists. My country only kills when absolutely necessary. We want peace and are not an agressive state; but we will kill all who threaten. It is a shame when peace loving Israelis are forced to kill in order to preserve our peace. We are living in our promised land and will defend ourselves from all intruders. All we want is peace! So don't threaten us or you will die like a dog.
May 13, 2008 10:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 22:58
Remember the Liberty; you dirty terrorists!!
May 13, 2008 10:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 22:44
Zenwick wrote:
>we're not unused to a lack of respect from >people of other religions, who nonetheless >think highly of themselves and their >relationship with God.
Why do you think respondeders to BBC's survey did not deem Israel respectable on religious grounds? Let us take religion out of this. Israel, after all is a state. As a state, it has done things that nation-states have done over centuries, grabbing land and enslaving those in them. This is the same stuff that the axis powers in WWII, and all the conquerors before them did. The allies of WWII has more universal aims. The Western allies believed in liberal values for all nations. The sovies were internationalists in the socialist sence. Isreal of today has a lot in common with Nazis and Tojo Japanese becuase all it cares about is its own nation's welfare.
May 13, 2008 7:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 19:45
Max wrote:
"the Jews who were the victims of WWII have founded a country that is not respected now because it has taken the nationalistic route."
It's an interesting point, and it's the reason why there are devout Jews (like the nitwits who attended Ahmedinejad's Wipe-Israel-Off-The-Map-Fest) who don't think statehood and godliness are compatible.
On the other hand, for Jews, non-statehood and being exterminated have been very compatible, so most of us don't figure on going there again. Anyway, we're not unused to a lack of respect from people of other religions, who nonetheless think highly of themselves and their relationship with God.
May 13, 2008 5:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 17:00
BBC conducts an annual poll around the world to rank countries on the basis of how well respected they are. In the last few years Germany and Japan are among the most respected and Israel (along with Iran) is considered the least respected. This is very ironic considering the legacy of mankind's greatest struggle, world war II. That war was foungh between one side that had more of an internationalist and idealistic bent (the allies); and the other side that had specifically nationalistic agendas (German and Japan). The irony is that the Germans and the Japanese has taken the internationalistic banner, and are respected for it, but the Jews who were the victims of WWII have founded a country that is not respected now because it has taken the nationalistic route. This is one of the greatest reversals in history.
May 13, 2008 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 15:15
@Casablanca:
I think you missed my point, or maybe not...
I was suggesting that Israel had already brokered peace with a neighbor at a relatively high price (land for peace where the land returned is larger than the Pre-'67 size of Israel).
Hezbollah's influence is widespread through Lebanon and Syria, but will more likely trigger another full scale civil war in Lebanon before is is a true threat to Israel.
Iran CLAIMS not to be seeking nuclear weapons, just like Israel REFUSES to discuss whether or not it has a nuclear arsenal. Iraq will be a mess for a long time before it is able to mount a campaign of its own (a Topic worthy of a whole other series, not here). Hamas can't stop incursions and occupation by the enemy it is sworn to destroy. Heck, Hamas interferes with attempts to feed its own people.
Islamic Republic in Egypt? Maybe, but not yet...
In the end my point was, who (in the Middle East)other that Israel has been asked to give up land it currently controls? Who else (in the Middle East) has returned (voluntarily) land it controlled?
May 13, 2008 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 15:15
The day Israel is wiped off the map is the day there will be peace in the middle east. If the U.S. wants peace they should cut off the funding for the Israeli death machine (IDF)!!!!!!!!!
May 13, 2008 3:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 15:09
Jorge:
Will we ever get back money from the Lend-Lease program of WWII that was sent to the Other Allies (no not in full)? Will The Egyptians ever return the subsidies they have received (no)? Will Colombia ever return the funds it received, or Venezuela, or Panama... I could go on and on. That is the nature of foreign aid sent by the US, to well neigh more than 1/2 the nations on the planet.
Israel is not my country, but I do not favor its destruction either, as some here seem to desire. If you believe that Israel has given no effort to its current success then nothing anyone says to you will ever matter b/c you would be choosing to ignore reality. Barren land now produces food. Idustry and manufacturing exist beyond the means of its neighbors. Not all from US money. . .
May 13, 2008 2:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 14:26
Jorge:
Will we ever get back money from the Lend-Lease program of WWII that was sent to the Other Allies (no not in full)? Will The Egyptians ever return the subsidies they have received (no)? That is the nature of foreign aid sent by the US, to well neigh more than 1/2 the nations on the planet. Will Colombia ever return the funds it received, or Venezuela, or Panama... I could go on and on.
Israel is not my country, I do not favor its destruction either, as some here seem to desire. If you believe that Israel has given no effort to its current success then nothing anyone says to you will ever matter b/c you would be choosing to ignore reality. Barren land now produces food. Idustry and manufacturing exist beyond the means of its neighbors. Not all from US money. . .
May 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 14:25
Enlightenment:
By the "victor's spoils" you mean Hamas's increasing capacity to hit Southern Israel? Or Hizbullah's growing influence in Labeanon? Perphas both. Maybe you mean Iran's nuclear program and emergence as Israel's most potent adversary. Oh, and I forgot about the Islamic Republic of Iraq and the future Islamic Republic of Egypt. Congratulations! Enjoy the spoils. Please don't share them with me.
May 13, 2008 2:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 14:13
Enlightenment:
Indeed, interesting question, what would Israel do without US military backing?, which, by the way it also costs money. In any case, Israel's fate is tied to our economy, if we ever go down we will drag you, unless, again, your nation proves that it is really a prosperous, self-sufficient as any official propaganda wants us to believe.
I personally compare this nation to the rich kid who lives large thanks to a rich relative but not thanks to his/her own effort.
How much does Israel owe to the United States considering the huge amount of dollars delivered every year?, will we ever get our money back?. Even Colombia which is officially labeled "ally" doesn't get that royal treatment: unrestricted borrowing.
May 13, 2008 2:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 14:13
As a racist apartheid entity,israel was born dead,it has no moral or legal legitimacy what so ever ,it has no constitution,no borders:no colonial settler state ever survived in the Arab East:the crusaders' statelets were finally evicted after a fragmented and precerious existence for two centuries;French colonialism in and of Alegeria for 130 years did not fare better,so was the nuclear armed racist apartheid white south africa.
israel has no chance in hell to survive-not while eleven million tormented and dispossessed Palestinians live either in jewish concentration camps in their own homeland or in refugee camps within one or two hours drive from their occupied home lands in historic Palestine.
Solution:
One secular multi-cultural multi-religious democrcay for all: Arabs (Christains and Muslims)and jews who lived in historic Palestine at or before 1914-all other jews who landed there after 1914 who are in fact illegal jewish immigrants sumggled by the British mandate authority should go back to where they come from and leave the homes and land they stole from the ethnically cleanesed Palestinians by jewish terrorist groups(hagana,palmach,irgun,shtern)in 1947/8.
No other solution will ever work-never;it is just untainable to have an occupying racist apartheid militaristic jewish theocracy on Arab land and in the heart of the Arab world.
May 13, 2008 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 14:01
Zenwick,
You probably did not understand what I was trying to say and I do not understand what you are trying to say. My point is,nobody over there is willing to accept anybody else's criteria, reality notwithstandin. To the question you are directing to me: that housemate would certainly get his butt wiped out before me; no doubt about that.
May 13, 2008 1:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 13:59
@Frank Rivas:
How would you feel if your housemate opened fire on you, and served notice that he would move back into the house as soon as he was able to finally kill you?
May 13, 2008 1:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 13:36
The way things have been and still are, Israel will disappear along with the rest of the Middle East in one of the greatest confrontations ever (we are not talking about stones and arrows here). It's hard to say, but none of these folks are really willing to negotiate in good terms at all. Now, for Yossi Melman; how would you feel if you are evicted, evacuated or however you want to state it, from your house, along with your family and then, later on, you are being told that you are allowed to come back but to a little room in the basement of your own house and use only the half-bathroom available?
May 13, 2008 1:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 13:20
Steve:
Why wouldn't someone call you an anti-semite for your last post? "Thanks for Nothing Jews". . .
That's terribly enlightened. All Jews are to be blamed for things (that you dubiously) claim are the result of US support for Israel?
Then all Americans are to be blamed, including you, for slavery, murder of the Native Americans, Mistreatment of Detainees, and the Global Credit Crisis.
All Christians are to be blamed for the pogroms of Europe, the spanish inquisition and the atrocities of the crusade...
Understand I don't hold these beliefs but they make as much sense as Mr. Steve...
May 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 13:14
Correction: Kosovo is not a UN member state.
May 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 13:05
By the way, I love the screen name. I wonder how many get the literary reference. Are you planning a military coup?
May 13, 2008 12:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 12:58
I think the question of how long Israel can survive is a good one, because it comes down to the question of, whose side is time on? Palestinians hope they can keep the issue front-and-center by playing the victim in the world press, stoking antisemitism, and linking it to fears of world-wide terrorism.
Israelis hope they can make it go away by building a barrier, to let the Arabs stew in their own juices. The problem with that approach has been cross-border rockets, and will be the future Iranian nukes.
As long as each side thinks they can get an advantage by deadlocking the process, there will be no solution.
May 13, 2008 12:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 12:54
Don't you think that 60 years is long enough for Israel to be sucking on Americas teats?
When will you Jews stand up for yourselves?
If America stopped giving Israel billions of dollars in aid, and most of your weapons, what then would you do?
Don't even try to call me anti-semetic. America has done more for Israel than any other country in the world. What has Israel done for America?
1. A never ending war.
2. AIPAC
3. Joe F-ing Lieberman.
4. Military stike against our Navy
thanks for nothing Jews
May 13, 2008 12:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 12:16
Israel may survive to be 100 but not much longer. Israel’s fate will follow America’s fate, which doesn’t look very promising over the next 40 or 50 years. As America gradually becomes a minority country and the present ruling class loses power, support for Israel will decline and without American support Israel will cease to exist.
May 13, 2008 12:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 12:06
Jorge:
US doesn't stand on its own feet, all the time. The Mortgage Crisis has led to major US corporations receiving bail outs through cash infusions by Asian Nations, middle east nations and European interests... Arguably US economy would have really crashed absent foreign assistance....
US is one the worlds biggest benefactors in terms of cash, and Israel certainly benefits greatly. However under the same demand, "stand on your own two feet", dozens of other nations would have to be cut off and would probably fail. Would Israel fail without US cash but with US military backing? That would be an interesting question.
May 13, 2008 12:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 12:05
Krummy26
Answer: Probably not, but as rude as this is, to the victor goes the spoils. When in the Middle east has any nation victorious in military operation returned the land it annexed? Only Once, and I'll give you a hint... 1978, Camp David, Egyptian peace... Answer: The Sinai returned by the Israelis...
Why was this politically possible? The Sinai was never really a part of either Israel or the previous territory of Palestine. What was a part of the previous territory of Palestine, and considered by the 1st independent government in the area in centuries as a part of the State was/is the Gaza and the West Bank.
That said, might does not make right.
Will peace prevail? Two possible scenarios:
1. Predominantly Muslim Middle East contries follow the Egyptian model, recognize Israel, stop fighting it, and focus on internal improvements & accomodating Palestinian Muslims; or
2. Collapse of the economies of the Oil producing Arab Nations such that they have no choice.
The only third choice is nuclear obliteration of the middle east by Iran-Israel conflict.
May 13, 2008 11:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:55
From "Consider this" who is obviously pro-Israel:
(...)"Israel cannot be defeated by conventional means. It is too strong. It is a nuclear power. Iran's president has calculated that nuclear war would destroy all of Israel but not all of Islam. Do we really want nuclear war on this planet?"(...)
Moshe Epstein ("there is no proof of Israel having a nuclear arsenal. Those are just rumors started by the terrorist governments")
Any comments about this dear Moshe?, maybe you may need to remind your fellow country man to keep it hush-hush and not get too carried away.
We all know Israel has nuclear weapons thanks to our support, all efforts to show otherwise have been fruitless. Please, do not insult our intelligence.
May 13, 2008 11:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:46
Sari, fine with me.
Just show me your country can stop asking for more money from us. That's all I want as an American, it is time for Israel to stand on its own like we do.
May 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:33
WHy does Israel think they are above the law?? They keep expanding further into occupied territory, they ignore UN resolutions, and employ a double standard when it comes to nukes. We can have them but no one else? Why won't Israel sign the NPT? Iran has and this gives them the RIGHT to enrich uranium as long as the concentration stays below 5%. Nukes require over 90%.
As far as Camp David Summit and Peace Accords? If you switch the names Palestine and Israel on the paper, would Israel have accepted the map of the proposed Palestine state as their own? A state broken into unconnected pieces...without any soverignity over their airspace? I seriously doubt it.
Someone tell why my rationale is wrong. Peace.
May 13, 2008 11:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:33
To Yossi Melman,
Amen! I agree with everything you say here. Your hopes are my hopes. I wonder why people keep calling Israel's policies "evil" but they do not criticize Sudan for its policies in Darfur. They criticize Israel for the Gaza blockade, but when it lifts the blockade to let fuel in and HAMAS blocks the fuel trucks and REFUSES to let them enter, those voices are silent. Yes, Hamas is complicit, if not causing, the Palestinians more suffering today because they are refusing to allow Israeli fuel trucks to pass through their border.
Israel will live, survive, thrive. The question is insulting. How would you feel, peanut gallery of commenters, if someone asked this question about the USA?
May 13, 2008 11:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:04
Israel is a peaceful nation surrounded by terrorist states. There is no proof of Israel having a nuclear arsenal. Those are just rumors started by the terrorist governments. If we did have nuclear weapons I would encourage our goverment to use every last one of them so that we can be free and live in peace.
May 13, 2008 11:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 11:04
Here is a Moroccan perspective on this absurd and endless conflict:
Israel is indeed the 20th century miracle (survival, democracy, technology, development, and even fun...). But a miracle need not be at the cost of Palestinians who equally deserve peace and propserity in a homeland. Denying Israelis their achievements and Palestinians their humanity serves no one. Yet, who are we judge? We can't solve our minor problems with Algerian "brothers"!
May 13, 2008 10:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:58
I am excited for the day when Iran can match Israel's nuclear asenal. Then we will finally have some balance in that god forsaken part of the world.
Jews will need to denounce their own violent tendencies, or they will not survive another 20 years.
May 13, 2008 10:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:58
Israel is a destabilizing force in the middle east. We should all pray that they don't make it to a 65th birthday.
May 13, 2008 10:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:51
I am an American jew, supportive of State of Israel. But I see ominous indications that Israel as you know it is in peril. First, the nationalistic fervor of earlier generations is giving way in the young to hopes for a better, more peaceful life elsewhere; the number of Israelis who are immigrating to the United States, some illegally through the Mexican border is increasing. Second, your insistence on using young men and women to man checkpoints and provide security against hostile neighbors is depriving them of the opportunity to develop the technical knowledge necessary for future economic development.
Third, increasing criticism of the current politics of Israel among Americans, along with the decline in the American economy, threatens economic support for Israel without which you cannot long survive.
Fourth, the general lowering of the water tables in the area are bound to provoke more disagreements with your more prolific (and currently hostile) arab neighbors.
Fifth, the vibrant democracy you boast of does not include the million or so Israeli arabs who feel discriminated against and have no effective political representation.
Sixth, no Israeli leader has ever disavowed an Israeli claim to Judea and Samaria - without which there can never be agreement with the Palestinians on borders. And the list goes on. Wake up before it is too late.
May 13, 2008 10:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:47
To all those who criticize Israel, consider this.
Israel is a loyal ally of the United States. It bombed Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities at our request. When the first President Bush put together a global alliance to invade Iraq to free Kuwait, Iraq attacked Israel, who was not part of the coalition. Israel, at the US's request, did not attack back so as not to break the alliance of other Arab countries. Imagine what would happen if the rest of the world had asked the second George Bush not to attack Iraq, would we have listened? (Oh that's right, they did make that request). For years, Yasser Arafat oversaw attacks on Israel, which had the ability to arrest Arafat at any time. at the request of the US, Israel did not. Would we let Osama bin Laden off so easily if we could capture him?
People criticize Israel for occupying land that was seized as a result of other countries attacking them. Yet we occupy Iraq and Iraq never attacked us. Arabs talk about returning to pre-1967 borders, yet what caused those borders to change? Arabs had the desired borders for 19 years and then they chose to launch a multination war against a country much smaller and with far fewer people. Can anyone blame Israel for seeking security? Israel left Gaza and now Palestinians use that land to launch daily attacks at innocent civilians.
Egypt has shown the solution. They made peace with Israel (after Israel turned over intelligence information it had on an assassination attempt on then Egyptian president Anwar Sadat) and Israel returned the land it occupied. Israel will make peace with whomever wants to. The Egypt-Israel peace treaty has lasted 30 years. To those nations who want peace, peace is available. but one cannot expect Israel to do nothing when confronted by people whose credo is to detroy Israel any more than we would do nothing if a group of other nations wanted to destroy us.
Israel was created as a legitimate country, recognized by the UN. It is no more reasonable to ask Israel not to exist than it is to ask any other such country not to exist. To those who do not want to support Israel any more, consider this. Israel cannot be defeated by conventional means. It is too strong. It is a nuclear power. Iran's president has calculated that nuclear war would destroy all of Israel but not all of Islam. Do we really want nuclear war on this planet? If not, then it is in our best interest to support Israel's existence as Israel will not die quietly just as we would not either.
May 13, 2008 10:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:46
Ok "Billy", here I go:
billy:
I like most americans support Israel.
The only animals are muslims not jews.
* I am American but I don't feel obligated to support a foreing country, I support the United States of America. I you don't feel like doing so then nobody stops you for going somewhere else.
Jews dont try to kill me when I Board a plane or try to bleed me dry with the cost of fuel.
They dont preach that they want to murder me and my children...but muslims do !!!
* All muslims?, remember, generalization is born from ignorance. The cost of fuel is the product of especulators in the West, get a grip.
The way I see it , its time for the muslims to pack there bags and get of here , your not wanted.
your so pround of palestine move to gaza.
* If most Israelis think like you then we will have to endure more wars. It is time for you two (israelis and palestinians) to stop right now, we are sick and tired of you.
the anti Israel posts here is amusing . I have no doubt most of the anti jewish comments are from arabs who now call america home.Because their own middle eastern countries suck
* I have no doubt you have the IQ of a rock. Most comments are from people who put the facts out there, I don't like my country bankrolling another in the order of tens of billions of dollars EVERY YEAR, while here at home there is so much to do. Your accusations of anti-semitism are immature and completely worn out, they don't work anymore. You and your country are not beyond reproach.
last year in so called Palestine 623 murders where woman killed from their own families.
Honer killings.
* Sources please.
May 13, 2008 10:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:41
All Nations built on Machiaveli (rule by sword) have disapeared.
Cyrus (rule by justice) is the way to go.
It is widely said,Israel is a democracy. Well,this makes it even worst. When dust settles, Jews, unlike the Germans, Israeli can not say they didnt know and they were against the regim. Fortunatly all is documented.
Last 60 yrs,the Arabs were "colonies" .. they still are, but not for long. Israel should make a deal quik , time is not on their side, for sure not.
May 13, 2008 10:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:21
To Matt:
How come 95% of Iranian jews leaving went to US and not Israel.How come 95% of South African jews went to Canada and US and not Israel.How come 90% of Russian jews went to US and not Israel (most Russian in Israel are not jews,recent anti-semit accident by Russians in Israel). How come after 60 yrs Israeli jewish population is decreasing.
Well 2 articles from Israeli scholars says a lot,a must read for all Israeli.
-"The Lion and the Gazelle" by "Uri Avnery"
-Tel Aviv University historian, Prof. Shlomo Sand, author of "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?"
May 13, 2008 10:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:09
What anti-Zionists find so obscene is that Israel is neither martyr nor saint. Their outrage refuses legitimacy to a people's national liberation movement. Israel's stubborn refusal to comply with the invitation to commit national suicide and thereby regain a supposedly lost moral ground draws condemnation. Jews now have the right to self-determination, and that is what the anti-semite dislikes so much.
May 13, 2008 10:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:05
Oh, it may continue for a thousand years; but at what cost? The only viable long term solution is:
1) Israel to be reconstituted in its more or less legal 1948 boundaries; or
2) Create a new secular Palestinian state where all religions can be practiced and there is no religious or ethnic advantage to any peoples; all occupied lands to be repatriated to the original owners; all resources to be shared to all peoples as a common good; Israel to pay for its illegal and immoral occupation; and a public apology to the Palestinian peoples would be welcome start to healing the disastrous alienation of the Zionists!
Without either of these remedies, I am afraid we are just in waiting for the inevitable loss by Israel of some crucial battle and the resulting Diaspora once again of the Jews; perhaps accompanied with a nuclear "event" that could bring on the desired Armageddon of the Christian “life hating” fundamentalists!
May 13, 2008 10:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 10:02
Melman,
The only "ostrich" policy I've been seeing for the last 60 years is the Israeli one. It was Golda Meir who said it best: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian." Let me tell you something bucko, there are still pro-Israeli people to this day that support that notion. Israel is STILL in denial regarding the war crimes they have committed against the Palestinians! Read Kuttab's editorial to get a real understanding of what Israel faces. If they keep up with their apartheid policies, Israel as stands today, WILL FALL by age 100.
May 13, 2008 9:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:50
Giani wrote:
Well, Nations are not based on religion. Religion would not cement a Nation. Pakistan a good sample.
Pakistani all Moslems, but nothing else in common.
Converts, & not practicing judaism (secular) !!!
Well .. wouldnt bet the farm on future
_________________________
Converts or not, I challenge you to find another nation that is more nationalistic and single-minded in purpose. I'm not going to choose sides in the morality question (though the whole suicide bomber thing doesn't do any good for the Palestinians' argument), but an examination of the cohesive nature of the Israeli population indicates that it won't be going anywhere. US money or not. Arab enemies or otherwise. Israelis LOVE their country and are, at the individual, more involved in the shaping of their country than any other nation. You can question whether Israel should have been established in the first place, but it is insanity to question the Israelis' resolve.
May 13, 2008 9:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:43
The same can be asked of any nation in the world. Where are the old Empires (Roman, Ottoman, Greek, British etc...)? They are all gone because nothing is forever, that is the point of this question. The world will rejoice when the light of Zion is extinguished by people who would not kill over texts written by people. When Moses returned from Mt Sinai he found his people worshiping a golden calf. God then learned that people would forever misinterpret his message. No man understands God's message, if they did we would all get along.
May 13, 2008 9:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:40
The Arabs and the Jews need to take a deep breath and then settle the mess they have made. Palestinians won't get everything they want nor will Israelis. Probably less than 1% of the people on both sides of this issue have stopped a settlement the other 99+% want. I think Israel will survive another 60 years but I wouldn't be surprised if the current mess still exists in 2068.
May 13, 2008 9:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:34
Nice response. I guess no one is allowed to ask any question of Israel. It is a huge success much like our our green zone in Iraq. If you keep dumping in enough money and build the walls high enough it will work, i know it will. It is funny that in lieu of responding to the question, Melman propaganda machine went to work. Turning the argument from will it be there in 40 years to you can't ask that question. Well last time I checked we as Americans can ask anything we want. We write the checks for you to exist.
May 13, 2008 9:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:27
I find all the responses to this article fascinating. Is there anyone out there who thinks that Israeli policies are evil but that it will survive? Is there anyone out there who thinks that Israel is a wonderful country but that it will not survive? The correlation between the readers' moral assessment of the situation and their prediction of what is likely to happen is emotional--based on what is most satisfying to your sense of order or justice. Of course, the universe does not obey such laws. It is a child's way of reasoning, which, alas, all too many adults indulge in.
May 13, 2008 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:26
Thank you, Mr. Melman, for an excellent column. You understand the situation very well.
May 13, 2008 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:26
I read this article and comments after I read the article and comments declaring that there might be some racism keeping people from voting for Obama. It amazes me just how much blatant racism exists, and how willing so many of you bigots are to spew this stuff under the anonymity of a blog.
Israel has existed for several thousand years, though in its current state for 60 years. The so-called Palestinians were rejected by every country in the area, inlcuding Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. It's such a shame that these countries wouldn't allow their 'brothers' immigrate.
As for the lands 'stolen' by Israel... please read some history before you make more of an idiot of yourself. All lands won by Israel were taken as a result of wars started by neighboring countries. Syria attacked Israel and lost the Golan Heights. Jordan attacked Israel and lost the West Bank. For a country so geographically small to have that strong of an army is amazing... it's also a necessity. Israel will be around for years to come; hopefully her neighbors will get over themselves in that time and accept it.
May 13, 2008 9:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:24
Homer, by your rationale anyone driven from their land has the right to return. There is also no statute of limitations Meaning that even though the people that you are talking about have nothing to do with Palestine have the right to take land because some text that was written by Jews says you need a homeland. Semitic is defined as : "of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic" Stop trying to steal the word. In addition most people that live in Israel are not from there. They are from Europe or the United States. The original Jews that lived in Palestine are treated as second class citizens because they are darker, much like the Arabs that are also Israeli citizens. Don't use Dr. Kings quote, he did not intend it to be used by a tyrannical people. Zionists are Nazi's. They do not represent all Jews. Just like Evangelicals do not represent all Christians. God is not in a physical location in this world. He is in our hearts. All people's hearts not the select few that are "chosen".
May 13, 2008 9:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:21
Just as importantly is the question: "Will the United States be around in another 40 years?" True, it is an extreme question, but the US has placed itself in a dangerous position with its military excursions, its bankrupt economy, its loss of domestic manufacturing capability, its ridiculous national deficit, its growing divide between rich and poor, and its president and legislature that has lost complete touch, care for, and understanding of its constituancy. The rise and fall of great nations is a scary scenario, but one that we as a nation MUST be concerned with.
May 13, 2008 9:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:20
Very nice response to a very stupid question.
May 13, 2008 9:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 09:15
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.
"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.
"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.
"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.
This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.
"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!
"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.
Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."
May 13, 2008 8:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 08:52
The Zionist Regime occupying Jerusalem will fall due to its own hubris and arrogance. Their Nookular WMD pose a grave threat to the world. They bully and attack their neighbors. They ignore the U.N. The U.S. bombed the wrong nation.
May 13, 2008 8:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 08:29
Israel will be the cause of World War III as Russia and China defend their Iranian oil supplies. None of will exist in 100 years.
May 13, 2008 8:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 08:25
Many jewish scholars now say, 98% of Jewish people are "converts", meaning not children of Moses.
Meaning jewish a "Religion" and not a "people".
Well, Nations are not based on religion.
Religion would not cement a Nation.
Pakistan a good sample.
Pakistani all Moslems, but nothing else in common.
Converts, & not practicing judaism (secular) !!!
Well .. wouldnt bet the farm on future
May 13, 2008 8:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 08:03
To Rachel b'aretz:
Israel did not prevent Russia from defeating the United States. They had no prayer to defeat us.
Israel is not the most powerful military in the world. The US could wipe you out in one week.
No one denies that the holocaust happened. The point is you cannot keep using it as an excuse to commit atrocities in the name of it for the rest of time. Like you said get over it. Every other group in the world has. Don't you think that the American Indians have a little more to complain about?
The loans you speak of are not repaid to the US. They are paid to the brokers that receive them for free
Does Palestine have an Army? No, so how do they defend themselves from your great Army?
If Israel is so great like you say, please stand on your own. We are so tired of carrying you.
May 13, 2008 7:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 07:28
Quote; "I am pretty confident that once this fundamental obstacle is genuinely overcome (by peace treaties and wholehearted acceptance) all the other stumbling blocks – occupation, settlements, Jerusalem, refuges, security arrangements and weapons of mass destruction - can be solved if good will and good intentions are shown."
The State of Israel has been giving resolutions and have agreed to them to the "so called stumbling blocks," and it is Israel that is not interested while using its financial wealth and US weapons to create a 20th century holocaust all in the name of greed and self created fear.
I find it funny that the moderator of the article before had a same day rebuttal.....
May 13, 2008 6:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 06:58
Whether "Israel" will survive depends on your definitions. Politically, that is as a political state, maybe. Demographically, as a Jewish state, probably not. The non-Jewish birthrate will simply overwhelm the Jewish population in the coming decades. At some point in the not too distant future, Israel will look like South Africa did 40 years ago: a small elite population subjugating a large palestinian population within its borders. Peaceful or not, that situation will resolve at some point in favor of the non-Jewish population.
May 13, 2008 6:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 06:20
Islamists and muslims are out to kill us and they want the USA to support them over Israel ,I think not.
May 13, 2008 6:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 06:10
recent polls put American support for the Palestinians at 13%...wonder why ?
im 68 I travel weekly sometimes sometimes more depending on the job, everytime i spend more than an hour or 3 at security and have to take my stuff apart and remove my shoes its not because of the jews, but because of the peacefull muslims.
May 13, 2008 5:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 05:56
The tragedy could end tommorrow if the US refused to give the billuions on Us taxpayers money to Israel until it complied with international law.
The only reason Israel continues to thumb it's nose at the Geneva Conventions, international law and just plain human decency is becuase it is given a free ride by the Us.
STOP ALLOWING YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES FROM BEING BOUGHT BY THE ZIONIST LOBBY. THEY ARE BEING PAID AND YOUR MONEU FUNDS THIS APARTHEID NATION.
May 13, 2008 5:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 05:27
It is astounding, astounding and disgusting, that the focus is on Israel's "survival". Israel survives and exists- Palestine does not; it was wiped off the map when the European colonists came and drove out- or masscred- the indigenous people. Palestine is the issue- the millions of human beings made stateless and decimated by the creation of a state for a religious sect.
There are millions of our fellow human beings who have never known freedom from a brutal occupying military. Those under the age of 30 in the walled off ghettoes in the little 22% of what was Palestine have never been free from the Israeli military and the thugs who live in the Jews-only fortified towns on occupied land- AN INTERNATIONAL CRIME.
No, israel is not "as good as any other democratic nation on this planet"....not by half! When you have 4 classes of citizens and calls 1, Jews only, have access to any area to build homes and to access social services and the other 3 classes of citizens do not- THAT IS APARTHEID AND CERTAILNY NOT DEMOCRATIC.
May 13, 2008 5:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 05:20
To all you clueless readers who still don't understand what Mr. Melman was talking about, it is time for you to realize that your remarks regarding Israel's right to exist are moot. We are here, we have been a constant presence in the Middle East since ancient times and we are not going anywhere. As for you true anti-Semites that spout on endlessly about "stealing land" only arabs have done that with poor consequences. We do not need to steal our own heritage which is what modern Israel truly can be called. We are the light of Zion, millions of lights, in fact. So next time you need medical testing turn the equipment around and see where it was manufactured and who owns the patents for it. Next time you receive a voicemail message or talk to your friends (if you have any) or family using instant messenging find out where that technology was invented. Next time you board an airplane ask the security teams from whence their security training emanated. The list of our accomplishments in a short span of 60 years is remarkable by any modern definition. We did not need the US to do anything except say "yes" 60 years ago in the UN to the resolution that only solidified and acknowledged our historic right to be here. The US financial support that the bulk of you manyakim keep shouting about is not to buttress a failed experiment in history. We do not get money from any source as "gifts". We do get loans which we repay with interest from countries such as Germany and the EU as well as the US. Only raging anti-Semites say such stupid things about the US and her special relationship with Israel. It is a practical one, benefitting both countries immeasurably. We are, and have been since 1948, a bulwark against Soviet ambitions in the Middle East. They continue to meddle in the affairs of Lebanon through Iran's proxy, Syria. They now have their own oil and gas reserves and still feel the need to supply Syria with their own anti-aircraft weaponry. If there was no Israel, the bulk of you anti-Israel morons would be speaking Russian. As for Mr. Melman being "right wing", he writes for Haaretz, Israel's leading left wing paper. But hey, since you are on a roll about being so wrong about everything else he said, why not be wrong about his views? The Post had discussed the "occupation" a week ago. We occupy no one. Anyone is free to leave any place within and adjacent to our borders. Palestinains political officials do it all the time as they act as banks so they can smuggle cash into Aza and parts of the West Bank to buy terror and death for us as well as themselves. We do have checkpoints and we do have barriers to keep Palestinians with evil intentions where they belong, in Aza. We guard our waters from smuggling attempts by Palestinians and we find thousands of tons of illegal contraband being smuggled each year at checkpoints, including "fertilizers" that would be used to make explosives instead of being applied to any field. We blow up smuggling tunnels next to Rafah and we arrest smugglers. So do the Egyptians. We do all these things with the best army in the world. They are the most motivated, best trained and best equipped to carry out our goals. They are primarily equipped with our own inventions made at our own factories and plants. We share our technology with the US and friendly nations all the time. We perfect the things we pay for from other nations and we have weapons no one can even comprehend at our disposal. We do all these things so we can survive in a world that is full of Israel deniers--a new breed of Holocaust deniers as the responses here indicate. Get over yourselves and move on. We already have.
May 13, 2008 4:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 04:41
As long as we keep writing the check!
May 13, 2008 4:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 04:41
Israel is already a de facto failed state having decided - and it did decide, this was not forced on it -- to live in a state of war with its neighbours rather than make the concessions necessary to live in peace. That constitutes a failed state - failed because it will live in a perpetual state of war with its mad children - the settlers who live in a world of metaphysical, narcissistic self-righteousness - running the show. There is nothing noble or valuable about what Israel - and the idea of Israel -- has become.
It's easy to say all you want is peace when you've already got the other guy's land - anyone can say that. The difficulty is saying it when you haven't got it. Stealing the land and living in a state of war, Israel's choice, demeans it irredeemably in the eyes of the civilized world. But when you think you've got God on your side........
May 13, 2008 3:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 03:31
I am bemused by the Melman Comedy Hour!
All the countries you have listed, save for those carved out of the rump of the Ottoman Empire, are real countries with centuries of history. They were not fabricated in a rebel format of refusing to accept the British Mandate.
You have listed a long list of achievements but have danced around the core issues of (a) occupation and (b) the peace that Jews sought as a refuge but have not experienced it in Israel for the last 60 years. In fact it is the only place were Jewish blood has been shed since WWII. Ironic, ain't it?
May 13, 2008 3:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 03:12
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinians. In your article, you claim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigrants". Israel Mr. Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states. In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinian land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist Zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its original inhabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinians villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinian people. Israel also is not respecting United States resolutions since 1967 and it continues to impose siege on 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany. Every day Israel is committing atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives miserable. Israel claims democracy and preventing Palestinians in Jerusalem to go to Al Aqsa mosque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupied in 1967 by complying with United Nation resolutions. This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarantee its survival
May 13, 2008 2:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:19
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinians. In your article, you claim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigrants". Israel Mr. Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states. In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinian land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist Zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its original inhabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinians villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinian people. Israel also is not respecting United States resolutions since 1967 and it continues to impose siege on 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany. Every day Israel is committing atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives miserable. Israel claims democracy and preventing Palestinians in Jerusalem to go to Al Aqsa mosque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupies in 1967 by complying with united nation resolutions. This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarantee its survival
May 13, 2008 2:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:18
Here's a question.....
What did the Palestinians do with the West Bank and Gaza between 1948 and 1967?
There was no Israeli occupation then.
Just curious.
May 13, 2008 2:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:17
Against all odds has Israel succeeded?
I suppose that makes sense.
Who needs odds when you have $20 billion from America?
Though I wonder, if America were to give Palestine $20 billion a year, and refuse to recognise Israel's democratically elected, terrorist government, whose desert would subsequently bloom.
May 13, 2008 2:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:15
Mr. Melman article on Israel survival next 40 years sounds like if the so called "Israel" is occupied by Palestinins.In your article you calim that "Israel" is "absorbing millions of immigants". Israel Mr Melman is an occupying power that was supported by Britain and United states.In 1984 Israel occupied the Palestinin land and terrorized its people and turned them into immigrants in Arab countries and in the rest of the world .Israel was established by groups of terrorist zionist Mobs came form several countries in Europe to steal the land from its origional inabitants the Palestinian people, Israel committed all types of massacres against Palestinina villages in Dair Yassin in Safad in Gaza. Israel will remain an occupying force for the Palestinina people.Israel also is not respecting United states resolutions since 1967 and its continues to impose siege on 1.5 million palestinians in Gaza Strip similar to the Nazi camps against Jews in Germany.Every day Israel is commiting atrocities against people in Gaza and west Bank shelling and bombing their Homes and making their lives misrable.Israel claims democarcy and preventing Palestinina in Jerusalm to go to Al Aqsa mousque for their Friday prayers. Israel has to know that the only way for its survival is end its occupation of Palestine and withdraw from all palestinina territories occupies in 1967 by complying with united states reolutions.This is the minimum "Israel" could do to guarntee its survival.
May 13, 2008 2:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:13
Much of muchness...
The idea that a country should live in constant danger for 60 years is one thing, but to contend with a demographic time bomb and an eroding military might is quite another.
Israel's hinterland was never more in danger than it is now. Even the 'Dimona solution,' the Ben Gurion and Peres final deterrent seems to be useless in the face of rockets that are launched daily from nowhere.
With the US administration embroiled in the Iraqi quagmire, Israel had to watch its allies get routed in Beirut, helpless and incapacitated.
According to Israeli historians, the 'thriving' had reached about 25% of the population, while the minorities, Jews and Arabs alike, are sinking like the US Middle Class. Does this not at least partially explain the reticence of the Israeli soldiers to put in a fight ion July 2006.
So much for the brave talk of a right-wing Israeli newspaper editor.
Peace in the Middle East will not come by denial and persistence - just as peace never came through the waning military superiority.
To wage peace is so much harder than to ignite a war. But it will come. And when it does it will be from inside Israel as well as from outside.
That will not be a moment too soon, after which, Israelis and Arabs will live in peace, as they did before they were separated by lethal dreams, bloodshed and destruction.
May 13, 2008 2:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:06
It is remarks like Mr. Melhman's that turn people against Israel.2000 years ago there were no countries as we know them now.They were areas like Egypt, Babylonia, Mesopotamia etc. To consider the arguement that Jews lived in what is now Israel, we must forget about the exodus from Egypt, their literary contibutions and their living in Babylonia etc. Mr. Melhman should make the arguement that since the biblical times great numbers of Jews lived in settlements that are known by biblical names, it will be reasonable for the Jews to have a country of their own, respecting the people that also lived in those same areas at that time, accomodating them and also being accomotated and live peacefully like neighbors. The fact that the victors of WWII decided to settle most of the European Jews in their ancestral area that became Israel, is an accomplished fact and rightly or wrongly should be accepted by all.It is common knowledge that most of the Palestinians that lived there vehemently objected this arrangement 60 years ago, and still do. It is also a fact that the Israel that was created in 1948, it is not the Israel of today, both in land area and people composition. The Israelis, who are by far the smartest and most powerful should be amenable to some of the reasonable demands of present day Palestinians, otherwise, they will have to endure the uncertainties of present day life. For people that have suffered so much by other powerful nations like Spain, Turkey and Germany and know the pains of extremely torturous behavior by these countries, should find a way to make peace.
May 13, 2008 2:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 02:02
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
May 13, 2008 1:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:51
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
May 13, 2008 1:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:50
I don't think Israel will survive as it is now for the following reason. Last Year we saw what is Hizbulla when the supposedly mighty IDF with immense support from US got checkmated in Lebanon. Hamas is another Hizbulla. Most of the people in the middle east including in Jordan and Egypt, regardless of their rulers, are eager to decimate israel. Once America crumbles, Israel will cease to exist. Prophet Mohammad also predicted all Jews from all parts of the world coming back to palestine (which has been already fulfilled) and getting exterminated to the extent that even the stone a Jew is hiding behind will make a call and say " A jew is hiding behind me, please come and make him run and flee" ( to be fulfilled).
Another thing to be noted here is the fact that no Jew was forced to flee from Palestine during Islamic era. Most of the Israelites and Jews including those in Palstine, the descendatns of Biblical Ishaque embraced Islam once prophet Mohammad came claiming his coming was foretold in both OT and NT. . “Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad) whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel ..” (Koran 7: 157). ). “Those to whom We gave the Scripture ( Jews and Christians) recognize him (Mohammad) as they recognize their sons (from the crowd). But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it ( 2: 146) “And, remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘ O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah unto you confirming the Torah (which came) before me and giving a glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me whose name shall be Ahmed”. (Koran 61:6).many verses in both Old and New Testaments (like Deut. 18:15, 18:18 21:21 Psalms 118:22-23, Isa 42:1-13, Habakuk: 3: 3-4, Mathew 21:42-43, Jn 14: 12-17, 26-28, 16:7-14 etc). So, Palestinians and Arabs include the original Israelites and Jews also. The Russian and other European Jews who have usurped Palestinian land through the conspiracies woven by UN, Britain and US has nothing to do with the land of Palestine.
May 13, 2008 1:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:50
Zionism = Nazism = Superior race ethnic cleansing of perceived inferior race.
May 13, 2008 1:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:49
KK says we have to remove the anti semetic chip off our shoulder.What makes you zionists treat palestinians like unclean dogs as you describe them in the torah.so what is the term used to describe jews that hate the semetic arab.Do jews think that palestinians had no fore fathers,because that is racist in tone.So let me get this right if we side with palestinians we are anti semetic racist's.If we side with jews we are blessed,give that propaganda a rest.You treat people like dogs,and you tell people they have a chip on their shoulder,you sound like general custer.You cry for christian funds(welfare)and then call them the unclean goyim,so who has the chip on their shoulder.Should jews be treated like they treat palestinians in land that your god did not give to you.Should it be done to you as you do to the palestinians.Ya i think your answer would be no.But then humbleness is not part of your culture,looking at the way you act and treat non jewish people.What was that in the bible you can charge interest from every one but a fellow jew,sounds like a book written by a jewish person for jewish people not the creaters words.And were has the color gone from your skin,what happened while you left the harsh desert for the riches of europe,you became white along the way,now your desert people again returning home.
May 13, 2008 1:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:37
SHIMON: Repeating the same thing over and over only works in religios schools and cults, not secular societies. If every nation had to return land to ancient forefathers we would all end up living in the horn of Africa, including you. God's word is only law in theocracies such as Israel and Iran. (Coincidence.?..I think not)
Palestinians had forefathers as well, and have been living in the MIddle East for just as long. Your argument makes no sense, unless, of course, you are typing from a Kabutz somewhere deep in Palestinian territory....
May 13, 2008 1:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 01:03
Making fulfilling some ancient biblical prophecy its foreign policy is the last thing a nation which supposedly believes in separation of church and state should be doing.
Yet more evidence that the United States is as phony as a one dollar bill.
May 13, 2008 12:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 00:36
Israel is the land of my forefathers. We the Jewish people have returned home after 2000 years of wandering. We have stolen nothing.
May 13, 2008 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 00:33
Occupation is a poor substitute for sovereighty, therefore the righteous defensiveness.
May 13, 2008 12:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 00:31
Let us not forget that it was the Zionists who first introduced terrorism to the Middle East.
May 13, 2008 12:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 00:31
I live in Israel. It is the land of my forefathers. We were kicked out against our will and have returned home to out traditional territory. Reading these responses is as depressing as it is expected these days.
May 13, 2008 12:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 13, 2008 00:28
Israel will exist as long as it is in the international strategic interest of the United States for Israel to exist OR as long as it is in the domestic political interests of the elected officials of the United States AND the United States is capable of enforcing its will.
Those conditions failing in whole or in part, Palestine will return to the people from whom it was stolen.
Until then, madness will continue in occupied Palestine and the occupiers will pay an indefensible price for the rent. Silly Harry Truman; he was out of his league. As for the Brits?.........well, they just wanted out. The Zionists? Never have so few been so guilty for the crimes against so many.
May 12, 2008 11:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 23:56
The best American policy solution is for the US to simply GO NEUTRAL on Israel, neither pro or against Israel. Just go neutral - no money, no intelligence or military sharing, no diplomatic support at the UN or elsewhere, no favors on the commercial, immigration, tax or import front. Just treat Israel as a neutral zone, etc.
This proposed position all makes sense after the continual Israeli spying (oh, too many cases and up to the present, indeed, including the 1968 USS Liberty attack by Israelis in the 1960s (just Google USS Liberty to be surprised at the scope and shame of it all.) Why does a small influential group receive such overwhelming financial, military and diplomatic support from the US, which has its own national interests damaged by this Israeli support? Well, folks, it is very clear - monetary, lobbying support, media and political intimidation from pro-Israeli groups in the US. Those who analyze and determine otherwise are then insulted and belittled, with no room for other opinions or conclusions on the matter - even Rabbi Michael Lerner and the 50% of Israelis- even the 50% of Peace Now Israelis who disagree - anti-semites all.
Any idiot could see that Israel is totally dependent on the US for its existence. So let he US go neutral and let Israel cope in a world without US support - financial, diplomatic, intelligence, military, commercial. Stop the subsidies and welfare. Israel is a perpetrator, not a victim! It will become much nicer and accommodating, and stop it arrogant and murderous stance once it has to face reality without the belligerent US backing of its racist policies. Talk about religious discrimination!
Patriotic American s want the US to protect US interests, NOT Israeli interests. To do otherwise is traitorous, and in no way anti-semitic - that just a wizard word to silence critics and fact based logic!
May 12, 2008 11:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 23:42
I had the pleasure to listen to Mr. Melman on a talk show this morning discussing the state of affairs in Lebanon. And interestingly enough, although not stated directly, the theme of the conversation was basically will Lebanon survivie and in what fashion. So this question is being asked of nations other than Isreal and it is a question that should be asked of all nations if they and their leaders wish to remain relevant and in touch with the ethos of its people.
And when it comes to Isreal it is a fair question not just because of its eternal strife in the neighborhood but because there is a great demographic shift looming just over the horizon that could bring about a change so drastic that it could tear apart what is basically a stable nation. The fact that Isrealis (Jews in particular) are becoming a smaller and smaller paortion of the population of Isreal and the Palestinian territories so asking how this fact will effect the survival of the nation is avalid and important question.
May 12, 2008 11:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 23:30
Isn't it a bit of a contradiction to begin by saying both that the question shouldn't have been asked, and that it could be asked of many other countries? Absolutely, it could (and will) be asked of other countries! But today it is being asked about Israel, partly because, as you point out, Israel has been quite successful at gaining the interest of the world media. The inquiry seems to be a fairly clear question about what effects the policies Israel is currently pursuing are likely to have on its survival ...
May 12, 2008 10:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 22:41
Another Israeli mouthing off about how big and tough Israel is...
While AIPAC and hundreds of other stealth groups grab every lousey cent they can, by whatever means....some of it for the settlements. Some for bribing Ohlmert, evidently.
Americans, who clearly detest our support of Israel,evident since the Carter book, and in polls, should put a stop to this, and surely will when the neocons that infested the Bush admninistraiton are gone.
May 12, 2008 9:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:41
Iran as a nuclear threat is ludicrous, if Iran or Syria were a terrorist state, like Israel, they could easily infect dozens with Ebola, and small pox and march them through major Israeli cities and bring Israel to its knees, but there are no real terror threats in the Middle East compared to the Balkans, 200,000 Muslims dead at the hands of Christians or Iraq where 600,000-1,000,000 have died at the hands of “allies” in two absurd invasions.
Apartheid and Israel celebrate their 60th anniversaries a few weeks apart, just two interpretations of the same oppression.
May Israel suffer the same fate as their victims, unless they return all that they stole.
May 12, 2008 9:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:35
Israel was given land that belonged to someone else and whose only claim was that it was promised to the Jews by God. Israel has treated the former citizens of that land little better than the Nazis treated the Jews of Europe. Israel has dragged the US into every stinking conflict that it has been involved in. Without the Funds that the US gives Israel the country wouldnt have lasted 10 years, yet Iraels continues to spy on the US. Israel is smaller than Florida, is a desert and represent what amounts to nothing more than a cult (based on shear numbers)religion.
I have to ask a simple question. Who cares? The relationship has been NOTHING but trouble for the US.
It is like the guy you go out to bar with to have a few drinks but he forgets his money so you have to buy all his drinks then he gets into a fight that he drags you into and even though you save his fanny from not one but 10 guys he still ends up getting sick in your car and gets insulted when you ask him to leave.
May 12, 2008 9:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:33
Israel can survive, but here's the thing: What do the Jews really want? This is an important question, because if you read the Old Testament, the borders are clear, and all who are not Jews are to be driven out. No intermarriage, no hanging out, and no Jews outside of Israel. They are supposed to all be in Israel.
But how realistic is that? How realisitic that all Jews will leave their part of the world and go to Israel?
It's over.
The true solution is for the Israelites to understand that their covenant with God is over.
The New Covenant, as described in the New Testament, is here and forever.
But Israel still has a job to do.
May 12, 2008 9:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:33
How like an Israeli
From the very VERY assured place of great SUPERIORITY..."THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. You're Stupid to ask any other question".
While sucking deeper on the American Taxpayer teat.
And while screaming that America must bomb Iran.
And while ANOTHER of their leaders is about to be indicted for being a crook. Money, usually.
What a deal.
May 12, 2008 9:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:24
The entire situation makes me think of a transplant patient. Israel is like the transplanted organ from an incompatible donor patient. The patient -- the Muslim countries surrounding it -- is deathly ill from the comorbid diseases of rampant poverty and ignorance, with subsequent lack of modern resources and institutions. The state of Israel avoids being totally 'rejected' by the surrounding tissues through the use of massive doses of immuno-suppressant 'drugs' (U.S. money and weapons, flowing not just into Israel, but to her Arab neighbors). I guess that makes America the doctors and nurses trying to keep the patient alive -- or, at least, not dead.
Indeed, by this (admittedly strained) analogy, we Americans make a very strange 'healer.' We seem much more concerned with the health and well-being of the organ, and less so towards the patient as a whole. We also appear motivated by cannibalism, or vampyrism, as we feed off the host, sucking the life force (oil) from her veins. Not too much -- we don't want to kill her! -- but, we are hungry, so very, very hungry.
Forty years is a long time to maintain such a precarious balancing act. In a somewhat more 'real world' scenario, where concern for the patient is paramount, we would be frantically looking for a more compatible donor. And we would, of course, need to change our eating habits.
May 12, 2008 9:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 21:00
So many of the comments above show you have been duped. The Palistinians have been the most dependent,(depending on Europe, Iran, Saudis, etc.for all of their money), the most helpless (why form a real government when being choatic brings in more charity), etc., etc.
I agree 100% with Yossi. Why should the Palistinians want autonomy when it would only lead to being grown up and responsible. Please don't fall for the "poor arab" stuff you have been spoon fed by the media.
As far as "stolen land" , you should read your history books. The U.N. Partition after WWII called for a two state solution. The Arabs choose to fight instead of negotiate...sound familiar?
May 12, 2008 8:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:59
I completely agree with Melman. I also like how he confronted the question with tact and most of all historical knowledge. I do think that it is an absurd question. The other people who reviewed need to remove the anti-semitic chip off of their shoulders. There is nothing lacking in Melman's brief yet balanced point on the subject. How much do you actually want him to cover in such a complicated situation involving a contraversial issue, fully loaded with history and current events on a website? You do not have to agree, but at least be fair.
May 12, 2008 8:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:47
I completely agree with Melman. I also like how he confronted the question with tact and most of all historical knowledge. I do think that it is an absurd question. The other people who reviewed need to remove the anti-semitic chip off of their shoulders. There is nothing lacking in Melman's brief yet balanced point on the subject. How much do you actually want him to cover in such a complicated situation involving a contraversial issue, fully loaded with history and current events on a website? You do not have to agree, but at least be fair.
May 12, 2008 8:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:47
how did that last war go for you, Israel...?
I met lots of you on the islands of Thailand and I can say there is no other group as rude to locals and tribal as Israelis!
No wonder youve got a bad reputation...
May 12, 2008 8:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:42
The Economist (April 12th-18th 2008): "Only after years of occupying the Palestinians, did Jewish Israelis start opening their eyes to the destruction that they themselves visited on another people in their attempt to create a refuge from the vast evil done to them."
My hope is that Jewish Israelis would open their eyes wide enough, start treating Palestinians like human beings, and learn to stand tall on their own. The umbilican cord has to be cut eventually.
May 12, 2008 8:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:40
Introspection is a quality lacking in hard-line Jewish thought as shown by this author.
It is a difficult question, however, Jews should ask why they are so unwelcome in modern countries?
Anti-Jewish sentiments are not irrational:
Perhaps it is their involvement in radical political movements such as the neo conservative movement or the early communist revolutions?
Time to start asking why?
May 12, 2008 8:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:37
Iraq has already ceased to exist.
May 12, 2008 8:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:27
UN legitimacy?
Accept for the small detail of basically all the Arab nations opposing it, and the Security Council shoving it down their throats, yes legitimate.
Who committed the atrocities against Jews were us western Christians. Not the Arabs.
Europeans and Americans could only be legitimate by ceding their own lands, not supporting a snatch of Arab majority lands.
Christ would weep if he could see our western folly, done in his supposed name.
May 12, 2008 8:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:18
A brilliant question that was answered with a stupid response.
Have we forgotten Irgun and Lehi, the two zionist terrorist groups that between the 30's and 1948 bombed and killed the hell out of the Birtish Mandate troops, UN employees and their families, Palestinian civilians? Now Israel clamors against the same type of horrors as the ones they executed.
Big "J" said it best...."live by the sword, die by the sword" Israel used the very same tactics (and worst) on the Paslestinians that now they the Palestinians use on them. Fair is fair.
How a NATION can stand here, in the public eye of reason and expect anyone to accept a "happy" nation while thousands of refugees live in misery and squalor after their land was taken away by foreigners?
And when did a "REAL" democracy anywhere in the world requires for you to be of an specific faith and ethnic background in order to immigrate? That is not a democracy, it is a THEOCRACY, which at best puts Israel at the same level as Iran.
And why is it that Israel hates Europe so much, yet the moment anyone questions the legitimacy of the their "democracy" they immediately try to fence it off by comparing themselves with Western democracies?
I say:
- Take Old Jerusalem from Israel, turn it into a city state like the Vatican and put the UN right smack in the middle of it and under its control and supervision. That will settle things.
May 12, 2008 8:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 20:16
Sure! Being the largest and only nuclear arsenal in the region—I am sure it will there even 100 years from now!
May 12, 2008 7:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 19:42
Good response. Israel, despite the threat of being obliterated again and again by Iranian President and other Muslims, has indeed thrived and the Israelis have stopped complaining and whining about Nazis and Muslims and built a better life for themselves, including millions of Muslims inside it.
Meanwhile, the other Middle Eastern states follow Islamic holy book and have been become intolerant of other religions and cultures. They survive only due to their ill-gotten oil wealth.
May 12, 2008 7:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 19:38
Yossi, you sound unhinged. Israel only exists with US support. As US power wanes and China takes over our spot Israel will fade too. There is nothing inherent in Israel that will allow it to succeed against its enemies. Tourism will not buy tanks.
May 12, 2008 7:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 19:11
Yasher Koach Mr. Melman. It is an idiotic question. But I think you are too modest with regard to Israel's accomplishments in the face of constant war and absorption of immigrants who have been traumatized to varying degrees by either Christians or Moslems. Israel has nothing to apologize for; instead, Europe, the U.S. and the Arab world have a lot of apologizing to do to Israel. If you're looking for one simple answer to why such an outrageous question was asked, I'd say it was oil at $125 a barrel. But if any country comes up with a way to neutralize the Arab/oil threat, it will be the Jewish geniuses in Israel. You are absolutely correct:the Palestinians are victims of two things: reckless invasions of Israel by ineffective armies, and horrendous leadership that "never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." (Abba Eban)
May 12, 2008 6:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 18:26
Never let facts interfere with your judgement, Yossi. I don't recall any of the countries you mentioned having been created from the single greatest NAKED land grab in the past two centuries. Israel won't be around to reach 100 because it will singularly be responsible for a nuclear or biological conflict in the region probably also responsible for the eradication of the human race.
May 12, 2008 6:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 18:10
salaam and long life
May 12, 2008 6:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 18:10
Notice how he says Israel is as good as any other "true democratic nation". What's implicit here is that because of this democracy Israel is superior- and more Western and civilized- than all those backwards countries that hate it. Have seen this racist argument over and over. "Sharon was legitimately elected while your Arafat is a dictator, therefore Israel and Israelis are superior to you backwards brown skinned Palestinians."
May 12, 2008 6:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 18:09
Israel should feel the heat, it has taken, taken, & taken some more, it has unethically influenced our US government, and sucked at the US teat like a hungry lion cub on a golden retriever. Americans are sick of it, and of course Israel's response is to suck harder.
An awful lot of Americans have gone from Israel supporters to Israel questioners, even while Israel has her boot on the neck of the US media's corporate overlords to prevent most negative news from ever getting airplay. Israel Lobby has ridden the backs of foolish American evangelicals to put a war monger in the White House, people here are sick of that too.
Israel will likely be here in 40 years - definitely, yes. And we will be so damned sick of her ways by then that she won't have a friend left.
Hang in there Palestinians, never forget, never give up!
May 12, 2008 6:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 18:01
"Stolen land"?
What nation is not born in blood? And what is the statute of limitations on historical grudges?
Israel's reason for existence is no more or less legitimate, or controversial, than most any other nation's.
Peace in the Middle East will only happen with economic prosperity. Without prosperity, people are left only with their religion. And we can see the effect of religious leadership around the world.
The poor people of Palestine need to wake up and realize they have been duped into perpetuating a war that only serves to glorify their hawkish leaders. The question of Israel's legitimacy means nothing when you realize they have nuclear weapons. Give up this useless war and make a deal, so that Palestinians can go about building some kind of future for themselves.
May 12, 2008 5:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:58
I am amazed by how overly sensitive Muslims can be. Why don't you stop worrying about that sliver of land called Israel and worry about why hundreds of millions of you, from Africa, to the Middle East, to Asia all live in poverty (except those whose wealth simply gushes from the ground).
Perhaps there is something the Muslim world can learn from the Jews.
May 12, 2008 5:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:53
Future of Israel in the Middle East is not going to be determined by the status quo which exists there today. Nor by a lot of wishful thinking on the part of commentators who have fallen in love with the Jewish State.
Political commentators should know what distinguishes a good commentary from confused or wishful thinking. The mark of a good analysis is that it will inevitably shed light on future trends and likely course of events.
Middle East is what it is and what it has been for many generations: home to a great multitude of Arabs and Moslems. If Jews want to risk living like a tiny implant of the Western culture in this tumultuous sea of humanity; then they will have to put up with much more than just Hamas, Hezbollah or the distant threat from Iran.
The dangers to the continued existence of a dominant Jewish state in Palestine are much closer at hand. They are as yet latent to wishful observers of Israeli politics. These dangers are far more ominous than the present day inconveniences experienced by Israel today. The currently imagined threats to the existence of the Jewish State from Iranian support for the Hezbollah and Hamas pale in comparison to what likely is in store for Israel.
To start with, let us take Israel's immediate and well-behaved neighbours; Jordan and Egypt. Imagine how tables will be turned and untenable it will become for Jews to stay in Israel if there were an Islamic coup in Jordan or Egypt.
Then there are other Arab countries closer to Palestine and in North Africa. What would Israel and its friends do if say Algerians start feeling strong solidarity with the suffering Palestinians and show even more hostility against the Jewish State than the Iranians. Algerians are after all Arabs themselves unlike the Iranians.
The same can also happen in Morocco and Tunisia. And then nothing could stop the tsunami wave of concrete anti-Israeli hatred crashing in from the western front.
This would be the nightmare scenario for the Jews now living in Palestine. And that is even before the rich Arab states to the east of Palestine get in the anti-Jewish arena and participate with their oil riches in the bid to dismantle the state of Israel.
The above takes into account only a more obvious portion of what will happen if Arabs in the vicinity of Palestine begin to stir and act in solidarity with Palestine. There are other countries, potentially no less menacing, nearby like Yemen and Somalia. The people of those countries would be no less eager to put to an end the decades-long humiliation Arabs have suffered because of Israel's existence in their midst.
Beyond that you have the Islamic countries. There is no doubt that some of them, like Pakistan, will also join in and do their best to make life impossible for the Jews living a privileged life in Palestine.
Israelis and everybody else in the West would definitely get something to think about when the vast sea of Arabs and Moslems surrounding the Jewish State loses it deceptive calm and erupts into a furious storm . They will then forget all about the imaginary existential threats posed to Israel by Iran or the Hezbollah, which dominate the news these days.
For Jews in Israel to cherish long-term peace they will have to, sooner or later, humble themselves to the Arab level. They would have to accept Palestinians as equals with the same rights to land and settlement in all of the original Palestine as Jews. They would have to consent to the Palestinian refugees' right of return.
The Jewish state would have to undergo a major transformation to avoid further wars with its neighbours so that Jews can live in relative peace in the Holy Land.
The alternative to the above is a gradual and irreversible dilution of the Jewishness of Israel, when Jews now living in Palestine would start preferring peaceful and permanent residence elsewhere rather than in the unruly Middle East.
Another (unlikely) alternative is an eventual war of annihilation with even worse consequences for all concerned.
May 12, 2008 5:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:33
So, if only the Palestinians would accept Israel and forget that over one and one/half million Palestinians were either forcible ejected or left Palestine out of fear of physical violence in 1948, and that the large tracts of the West Bank have been taken for Israeli settlements which continue to expand at the expense of the Palestinians, that no compensation has been given or ever be given to those whose lands, house, etc, have been confiscated without legal process, that they continue to live in the worlds largest prison without hope of a better life, Israel will be happy and content at 100.
Mr. Melman, time is on the side of the Palestinians and eventually their population will significantly outnumber Israelis. What then? What kind of people will the Israelis be when they continue to subjugate and to practice collective guilt reprisals against the Palestinians over the next 40 years? Perhaps, that is the proper question: What kind of people will the Israelis be in another 40 years?
I don’t think the majority of the world’s people, including the United States, will like what they see.
May 12, 2008 5:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:31
It would be very helpful if the Palestinians would recognize an obvious fact: there is much more to be gained by cooperating with Israel than by fighting.
If the Palestinians had accepted the right of existence of Israel from the very beginning, instead of fighting wars and the Intifada, there would not have been any settlements and the Palestinians could have achieved a standard of living comparable to that of Israel.
There have been many opportunities for the Arabs to start on the path of cooperation but they listened instead to Arafat and the other demagogues who steered them to "resistance."
What a pity!
May 12, 2008 5:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:29
There are so many untruths that even highly sophisticated "experts' like Mr. Melman continue to spread. Israel was founded for the reasons he says, but on other people's land, imposed by all foreigners after the humiliation of several centuries of foreign domination and colonialism. Israel also speaks of itself as being a victim, but Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were terrorists, bombing, killing and provoking Arabs long before Israel was formed. Then hundreds of Arab villages were eradicated, a fact hidden until recent Israeli historians wrote of this shameful history that Jews tried to hide. Always the victim, never the propagator, huh?
And Israel's formation goes against the full tide of western civilization, in which Jews have made a huge and positive contribution. The Reformation was about separating religion and government, whereas Israel is a religiously defined secular state that discriminates against non-Jews, despite what anybody says.
And why are Arabs killed in a ratio that oscillates between 10:1 and 30:1 over Jews? The numbers are awful, all according to B T'Selem (spelling?) Only more dirty Israeli tricks will avoid the demographic destruction of Israel.
May 12, 2008 5:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:24
Mr. Melman - Israel survives because of US taxpayer subsidies...when are the Israeli people going to stand up for themselves?
May 12, 2008 5:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:21
He objects to the question? Typically Israeli right-wing arrogance, only possible due to the open spigot at the US treasury Israeli has been dependent on from the start. Daoud Kuttab’s response in this series makes a lot more sense. Peace in the Middle East would be wonderful, but it won’t happen until Israeli ends its apartheid and both sides end their terrorist murder of innocents. Not in our lifetimes, I’m afraid.
May 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:17
Yes, settled millions of foreigners on stolen land.
There is a key difference between Israel and many of the other states Yossi Melman is trying to compare it to. That is that Israel was birthed through a criminal act: Expulsion of indigenous people. IE: Ethnic Cleansing. It is the Israelis, not the Palestinians who are in denial for failing to recognize this. And it takes a remarkable shamelessness to talk about "the historical desire of Jews to return to their ancient homeland" while simeltaneously denying the Palestinians the same.
The longer Israelis keep their head in the sand and pretend like they are like every other legitimate country, the longer the conflict will continue.
May 12, 2008 5:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:02
I agree, the question asked is outrageous. Whoever asked it sounds as if they're trying to spark defensiveness.
My question to the questioner: Israel will be here, but will the UN?
May 12, 2008 5:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 17:01
Mr. Melman as long "defenfing itself" doesn't mean receiving billions of dollars, courtesy of our tax dollars, then I can trust Israel can thrive and prosper all by itself. Many other descriptions portray Israel as a modern and advanced society with a serious military punch, if so then there is no need for your country to ask us for funding as we need this money at home, now more than ever.
It would also help a little if you lose that antagonistic attitude and understand that you need to go with the times and not against it.
My best wishes for Israel and Palestine to achieve a truly everlasting peace and that you two can coexist in a civilized manner. The entire world, which bears the brunt of your unfortunate actions will thank you.
May 12, 2008 4:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 12, 2008 16:50