How can the rocket fire of Israeli cities possibly be a war crime? These cities and towns are defended by Israel's integrated national defense. These towns are clearly legal military targets.

Are we going to round up the bombers of Dresden and haul them off to the Hague?

Excluding Hamas will doom any peace settlement. Israel had a chance to negotiate with Fatah and they chose to destroy it instead. Hamas is clearly the legitimate government of the Palestinian people and no peace agreement signed against their wishes has a chance.

Israel has repeatedly elected governments who have rejected the Palestinians rights. After the negotiations with Clinton did not succeed Israel said that it would never agree to the terms it offered at those negotiations.

Why must the Palestinians honor earlier agreements when Israel steadfastly refuses to do the same.

The entire rubric of terrorism has become useless . Sure the Palestinians would attack Israeli military targets with conventional forces if they had the means, but they don't. When Israeli leaders claims that rocket fire could lead to a holocaust and then launches a raid where many civilians are killed it is hard to believe the civilian casualties were accidents.

Occupations always breed terrorism. Even in Tibet there has been terrorism. This does not justify the acts of terrorism but it is unreasonable for Israel to expect that it can continue to occupy Palestinian lands and not suffer attacks against civilians. Israeli's are becoming dangerously out of touch with reality. The deaths due to terrorism in Israel never approaches the gun violence in a major US city. It is really hard to Americans to see this level of violence which we steadfastly refuse to do anything about here warrants extraordinary response by Israel.

Israel needs to drop the recriminations and make a deal. They had their chance with Fatah, that chance is gone. Now they must make their deal with Hamas.

http://bagreddet.com

http://bagreddet.com

US Image abroad is hard to fix says longtime US ally Bernard Kouchner, the foreign minister of France. He made his comments during an interview at the opening of the Forum for New Diplomacy in Paris.

Asked whether the United States could repair the damage it had suffered to its reputation during the Bush presidency and especially since the 2003 American-led invasion of Iraq, Mr. Kouchner replied, “It will never be as it was before.”

“I think the magic is over,” he continued, in what amounted to a sober assessment from one of France’s strongest supporters of the United States.

Europeans have officially rejected all contact with Hamas, listed as a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union. Asked whether there was a way to engage Hamas, which is supported by a significant minority of Palestinians, Mr. Kouchner appeared to hold out hope of contact.

“I’m looking for a diplomatic way to say yes,” he said.

He then noted that, in general, “we have to talk with our enemies” and that the Fatah faction of the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, which controls the West Bank, “always said they were in favor” of unity talks with Hamas. But since Hamas routed Fatah forces from Gaza in June, Mr. Abbas has refused to deal with Hamas, which he accused of committing a coup.

[I wonder if Hamas supporters are really in the minority of Palestinians as Kouchner says. I don’t think so.]

OPEC’s Triumph

Here is the real solution to US and Israeli arrogance and agression, as described by Robert J. Samuelson in today’s WP. OPEC, after 47 years of impotence, is finally beginning to act as a cartel. Look no further than last weeks meeting in Vienna, where OPEC refused to increase production in the face of $100 per barrel (and rising) oil. //

Declining oil prices is one of the mechanisms that normally bring a recession under control, but forget about it. The producers are in no mood to reduce prices by increasing production. Since 1999, oil revenue for OPEC countries has quadrupled to $670 billion in 2007. But has OPEC merely benefited from higher prices or acted as a true cartel, restricting output and raising prices. The answer is both. //

True, OPEC has been aided by two huge miscalculations: (1) China’s consumption has doubled to 7.5 million barrels per day (mpd) and the US consumption has increased by 20.8 mbd (up 7%), and (2) oil supply has been constrained by war, civil strife and nationalization in Iraq, Nigeria, Iran and Venezuela. //

But that’s only half of it. In late 2006, oil prices were slipping from $70 per barrel toward $50 per barrel. What did OPEC do? It responded by cutting production twice to 800,000 barrels per day. By July 2007, 125 million barrels of oil inventory had been wiped out, inventories were at their lowest point in three years by end of 2007 and prices started to rise. In early 1999, oil was priced at $10 per barrel. Saudi Arabia took the lead in negotiations with other cartel members and the result was a sharp cut in production. //

We are paying for past shortsightedness. Mr. Samuelson states that dependence on oil imports (now 60% of our supply) was inevitable, but that we could limit OPEC’s market power by sharply curbing our demand and increasing our supply.

[I disagree. If we had not squandered the last 60 years and trillions of dollars supporting the Zionist invasion of Palestine, alienating the Muslim world, leading the Christian invasion and occupation of Iraq, and further alienating the Muslim world, we could have achieved energy independence long ago. There are plenty of other options including nuclear, wind, wave and geothermal.

And today we learn that our top U.S. commander in the Middle East, whose views on strategy in the region have put him at odds with the Bush administration, has abruptly announced his resignation, calling reports of such disagreements an untenable "distraction."

Our only hope lies with the next and future administrations.]

Pete Murray,

I 2nd Lisa’s complements of your post. I googled your name and only find an Aussie singer-songwriter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Murray

Pete Murray is an Australian singer-songwriter whose two full-length albums have both reached #1 on the Australian music charts. He has been nominated several times at the ARIAs and has had several songs reach the top ten in Australia.

Too bad, you should be in a position of power to bring your ideas to fruition.

Only Israel is expected to absorb attack after attack and do nothing. Israel's response is "disproportionate" - in that any other nation in Israel's position would have already flattened the Palis long ago.

Also, the sheer idiocy of the comments is insane. Israel pulled out of Gaza. Israel did not interfere with the elections. Israel did not interfere when Hamas took over. Israel left them with all sorts of infrastructure that the Palis then destroyed.

But you are correct that Israel should completely pull out. That would mean no more supplying those animals with food, water, sewage treatment or electricity. The Palis have the lowest infant mortality rate of any Arabs in the mideast because they get access to Israeli medicine. Israel should keep them out of their hospitals too. Perhaps the Palis can build those things in their "state" rather than rockets. Perhaps they can study things like medicine and agriculture and engineering rather than killing and murder.

The palis get more international aid per capita than any other group of people on Earth. Look what they have to show for it.

I am utterly appalled by this article. The Arabs start war after war. The Arabs attack (or try to attack) everyday. The Arabs reject all offers of peace. The Arabs elect Hamas, which has sworn to make war on and destroy Israel. The Arabs launch rockets - that is an act of war you idiots - and you blame Israel.

It is high time Israel really gives them something to cry about and takes off the gloves. It is hight time, that when the Hamasnicks throw a parade, Israel takes the gift of a coupple of thousand irregular troops in one place at one time and hits them with napalm. It is high time that Israel destroys their munitions bunkers - even if they are placed in mosques. It is high time that Israel hunts down and kills the Hamas leadership. It is high time that the Palis learn that there is such a thing as personal responsibility. If you elect a genocidal terrorist organization, then the social contract works both ways and you take the consequences of the war they start. There will be no peace from half measures and there will be no peace when terrorist barbarians are whitewashed into some kind of hero.

I really don't care if you people here hate Jews. I really don't care if you think you are clever or if you think that your impotent whining will do anything to further the evil causes and the evil regimes you champion. There will come a day when Hamas and the Palis commit one atrocity too many, and then Israel will take off the gloves and do what the US or Britian or China or Russia would do in this situation.

As to the rest of you lefty pricks that want to say that Israel is not Jewish land, it was always Jewish land - just as much as Dublin is Irish. So cut the crap.

Finally, when the day comes that Israel has been pushed too far, and they take proper firm action, know that you left wing idiots helped to bring it because you helped to enable and embolden the terrorists. When that day comes, many more will die than if the world had been honest.

Well as of today (3.10) there appears a tacit agreement between a Israel and Hamas for a ceasefire which is very good...Qatar is helping with peace negotiations which is very good too as there is a personal relationship there with Damascus Hamas leadersship and a good one with Israel...Recently Yossi Beilin referenced that Qatar wanted to assist and it looks like someone n Isarel finally listed to him...now they should listen and meet his request for negotiations with Hamas...

One concern in an otherwise more positive turn of events as a new week starts is that Cheney is off to Middle East on March 16 ..even going to West Bank ...I hope not to meet with Dahlan ..let's hope his attempts to meddle in Palestinian politics is over....off course if you want to see endless intra fighting between Palestinians that is exactly what yo would do ...give Dahlan power in a Abbas government or replace Abbas with Dahlan...maybe some intrepid journalist will tell us the reason for Cheney's visit to West Bank...he is also going to Saudi Arabia ...maybe to apologize to King Abdullah for destroying/disrupting the Mecca Agreement of a unity gov for Palestine last March? He should because Condi was no doubt only saluting...

OR maybe there is positive movement on a Hamas-Fatah new unity government and he wants to see what portfolios Hamas will have?

MS:
Below is another reference about Camp David 2000, and I don't see in it that Arafat was the one to foil a deal that meets the bare minimum of Palestinian rights.
You are the one who should make sure of your "facts" before accusing others of ignorance.

http://www.nationbooks.org/book/73/ The Truth About Camp David

sites such as "Palestine Facts" or "Palestinian Media WAtch" are ZIONNIST sites that spew their expanzionism propaganda" The sites appropriate the name Palestinian or Palestine as if they were them, they are dishonest starting from their titles right down to their content and not worth looking at if you are looking for the TRUTH. Here's a link to the honest truth, no devious names, no need to trick folks with false sites or dress them up with sheep's clothing.

The Truth Regarding the 2000 Camp David Summit
By Gary D. Keenan
http://www.canpalnet-ottawa.org/campdavid.html

OBSERVER:

Camp David facts could be observed on following link:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2000.php

There is no explanation why Arafat refused the offer in Camp David without offering something... maybe you have an explanation? Please educate yourself with know fact and then make a point.

MS says:
“Israel wanted to keep land and Fatah wanted Jerusalem and get back refugees, but when Ehud Barak offered to Arafat all this he just refused and opened another intifada.”

Where did you get all this information? Does MS stand for multiple sclerosis?

To Mr. Pete Murray, thank you for a very intersting post...there are certainly some points to ponder in your post...here's hoping you are in a position either in government and/or military to advance some of your ideas down the line ...but in a new US administration...it's useless to advance anything with current US and current Israel government...

No peace is possible until Hamas and Hezbollah is dismantled.

The road map to peace has been followed by Israel. They have remain restrained and have given up "Land for peace." Where is the peace?
Two entities continue to promote the dream of Israel being pushed into the sea and they must be punished for not following the collective will of the world.

Damascus and Tehran must be held to account for their acts. They must be punished for promoting deaths of the innocents. The vision of a "War on Terrorism" should require American aircraft support is made available to target those entities who support terror.

The time has come to address those nations who continue to believe that America's words are empty and without substance.

Atheist in Virginia,

You are so right! The Israelis stole their land from the Palestinians, just as we stole ours from the Indians.

Bur there is no way that Israel will just disappear, any more than the USA will.

The people of Palestine have suffered the most with no end in sight. The problem is that we, the US citizens, support Israel with technology, money and influence. This is not only unfair, but it makes no sense.

The best hope for a solution is that the Arab leadership will meet in Syria this month and agree to dramatically cut back on the supply of oil. With Israel importing over 90% of its oil, mostly from Russia, and the US importing 60% of its oil, mostly from OPEC and with its economy already in the tank; a $6.00 per gallon price on gasoline would do wonders for the Palestinian people.

Pete Murray,

" The only people who have the muscle to do this are the US and EU through their economic leverage."

Yeah! Except that the US is suffering from muscular dystrophy not only attendant upon its debacle in Iraq and the metdown of the dollar and the US economy, but also from the total loss of confidence of its population in its leaders (read the latest mudslinging by Tommy Franks against his former Pentagon and State department colleagues in today's issue of WAPO).

As for Europe, having for some time considered launching its own alternative to NATO but seemingly having shelved the idea while Asia took it up to consider the launching of an 'Asian NATO', it is now too pre-occupiesd with Russia/Gazprom/Ukraine's repeated threats to cut gas supply that it feels it has better aims for which to flex its muscles than wreak greater havoc in Palestine.

But, no doubt Israel can go it alone, can it not? If not, Yossi Melman will do it himself, Samson-style!

Dear Mr Melman,

The people who are primarily to blame are the rejectionists on BOTH sides.

They will both need to be told that 1. Israel has a right to exist within its legal borders, and, 2. The Greater Israel project is over.

Because neither side has the military orpolitical will to confront their respective extremists, peace will need to be imposed.

The only people who have the muscle to do this are the US and EU through their economic leverage.

The steps are as follows.

1. A complete halt to settlement activity, and to economic transfers which enable the expansion and expropriation to continue.

2. Hamas and Fatah to agree a ceasefire for the duration of talks.

3. An international force to replace the IDF at the interface between the respective population centres and territories for the duration of talks and implimentation.

4. The building of a separation-wall along the 1967 cease-fire line, and the transfer of the illegal settlers to Israel or whatever western countries will ahve them.

5. The establishment of special protocols for Jerusalem to ensure access to historical and religious sites, and special arrangements for secutity and division of the city (which will become the dual capital).

6. The recognition of a peaceful Israel individually by all nations in the region.

7. Because of the separation-wall which will limit contact between Israel and its Arab neighbours (The Palestinians will have to make their economic ties with Egypt, Jordan, etc, and will have no right to travel to Israel), Israel to be given special relationship status with the EU - (free-trade and movement of people and goods). Such a status, politically impossible while Israel occupies Palestinian land, would be accepted by Europeans under the new conditions.

8. An international compensation court to adjudicate on claims of Palestinians whose property and possessions were seized or destroyed since 1948 (this could be modeled on the procedures which are used to recover and compensate for property seized by the Nazis)

9. Both sides to have control of their own airspace and territorial waters.

10. A wate-court which would ensure on a just allocation of the water-resources according to population and adjudicate on disputes.

Simple really (And unlike your proposal, compliant with the principle of equal rights and international law)

Mr. Melman:
Below is a portion of the petition the women of Palestine sent to the UN on the occassion of "Women's Day". It might give an idea on some of their grievances.

The General Union of Palestinian Women
Women's Associations and Centers
Ministry of Women's Affairs
-------------
-------------
An immediate end to the Israeli occupation and the establishment of an independent, sovereign Palestinian State would be a first step towards
achieving this goal .

Until such a time we call upon the UN to

1.Take legal measures to stop the Israeli onslaught against our people
in Gaza and in all the occupied territories
2 . Lift the siege imposed on Gaza, which is not merely threatening the lives of 1.5 million people but is leading to an environmental disaster with grave consequences on the whole area.
3. Accord international protection to our people under occupation and implement UN resolution 1325 that calls for the protection of women and children in times of war .
4. Ensure that the 4th Geneva Convention is respected by Israel as an occupying power, in all Palestinian land including East Jerusalem.

Apocalypse Now indeed!

"Israel is out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct."

I read every commentary related to this subject written by both sides. Not a single one is correct. You want peace between the West and the Arab World and of course Palestinians and Israelis, let the Palestinians and the Arabs aquire the same weapons including nuclear warfare and related technology, you will achieve peace the very next day. Why nobody understands the fact that terrorism and suicide bombing is the only weapon one side has. Render both sides in equal force, you won't see one suicide bomber in thousand years.

MS,

If you refuse to understand, so be it.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, even Francis Fukuyama have been there before. I have been writing newspaper articles (not in Canada or the US ming you) telling them and my readers that they were wrong, and that Bush and his coterie were heading direct to catastrophe. In my modest way, I was doing the same sublimely prophetic job that Howard Zinn, Tony Hedges, Scott Ritter, and many other brave, nearly-divine souls had been doing. To help the targeted innocent civilian-population victims (Bush and co cynically call them 'collateral damadge') of Afghanistan and Iraq (very soon, of Iran as well) but also the American and British youths who were going to be sent to the front, we took the courageous stand, as Uri Avnery and others are doing (God bless them!), to tell the lucid truth as we saw it. Of course we, were proved right!

Now, it is your choice, the choce of Yossi, and that of the Israeli people to take up the offer of, first, a 'Tahadiyeh', then a 'hudna' (made before and observed unilaterally for 12 full months despite Israel's rejection of it, but which still is on the table), as Uri Avnery explains, or reject it. Rejection would be a folly on Israel's part.

I have explained to you, just as we expalined to Bush and co, what the consequences of rejection would be, despite 'superior force'. Israel's response might very well echo that of the noecon idiot who thumped his chest and responded " Reality? What reality? We are an empire now. We create our own reality!"

And then THE reality strikes back -- they call it blowback!

Shalom!

Mohamed MALLECK,

I have read the article, but there is basic thing that left wing of Israel just couldn't understand: Hammas and Fattah are not interested in peace with Israel. Why all peace talks with Fatah before didn't succeeded? Probably both sides were to strict in their positions: Israel wanted to keep land and Fatah wanted Jerusalem and get back refugees, but when Yehud Barak offered to Arafat all this he just refused and opened another intifada. Why Arafat refused the proposal? Maybe because it's much better keep the situation in same state with image of bad Israel and pure Palestine image than build their own country...

Dave Ellis wrote in a previous post which I believe is appropriate to our topic here.

"No one ever says the Arabs don't have their problems. They most certainly do. And no one ever says the Zionists are the only people to practice racism and ethnic cleansing; they most certainly are not. But facts are facts, and the facts of Israel's creation are truly sickening. So is the story of the American Indians. But one can be dealt with, while the other is basically history.
Why do most of the Israel defenders I read here start in the MIDDLE of the story? Yes, it's true, there have been many Arab attacks on Jews since 1917, when Britain decided to give Palestinian land to Jewish settlers. Who can possibly blame them? Are they supposed to say, "Here, Mr. Chosen One, take my land. Take my house. Take my wife..." C'mon, folks.
My point is this: Once a war is started, like the Zionist's war against the Palestinians was started in 1917, there will always be those who choose to fight, rather than submit to occupation. And the hatred grows stronger every year, on both sides. But in this particular conflict, one side clearly started it all. And it WASN'T the Palestinians.
And to NOT IN MY NAME, I'll say this: If you are really a Palestinian and you really don't want me to defend you, with WORDS, not weapons, fine. I'll quit now. But I'm not going to shut up about our American soldiers who are dying right now doing Israel's dirty work. Nor about the Iraqis and the sick war the Zionist neocons have started there. And now that we're probably days away from war with Iran, when is a good time to get mad enough to tell the Zionist neo-cons to *&%#$ off?

Yossi,

Will you or anyone of the warmongers, like Military Realities, who simultaneously accuse Hamas of wanting the destruction of Israel and tout the military-superiority/barbarity of Israel, care to read the advice given by Uri Avnery in the article titled Good Morning, Hamas, accessible at the following web address?

http://www.counterpunch.com/avnery03042008.html

It is no doubt true, as Military Realities says, that Israel's military might is superior, but ask Bush or Cheney or even Petraeus what success 'military superiority' is delivering in the context of their plan to 'win the peace' in Iraq.

That's pretty funny Military Realities. I have a better one: You guys take all the land. You build a great big wall all around it. Make it real thick and impervious. Then we'll flood it!

Here are my nine steps:

1. Israel cuts off all of the power, food and water that they supply the palis. Give them something to whine about. Maybe they can rebuild those greenhouses they trashed...

2. Everytime the Hamasnicks celebrate in the streets for mudering Jews, Israel should look at the gift of many terrorists in the open at the same time in the same place. White phosphorous is a beautiful thing in such a case. So is napalm. The white phosporous will kill many, but more importanly leave the survivors with hideaous disfigurements. They will be an object lesson.

3. Tear down that abomination of a Mosque on the Temple Mount. Let them know that they do not get to spam their religion on other people's property.

4. Everytime one of them gets caught smuggling weapons or explosives across the boarder, no handwringing, just a pistol shot to the head. Fortunately they wear nice big rags on their heads to clean up any mess.

5. Everytime a rocket is launcehed, flatten a squre mile around the launch site with heavy artillery. The palis elected Hamas, they get to have the responsibility of electing a genocidal terrorist organization. The social contract works both ways.

6. Hunt down Hamasnicks. Blow up the Hamas gov't buildings, television stations and mosques.
Do it when there are as many of the rats inside as possible so they don't fade back into their holes.

7. Take back the northern part of Gaza. Keep it permanently. Sorry you don't get to launch stikes and expect nothing to happen. Kill all resistance that pops up. Build a wall and plant mines.

8. Break their will to fight by showing them that Allah does not help animals like them.

9. Tell them that this is what war means. The gloves will stay off. They can either make peace or die.

Here are my nine steps:

1. Israel cuts off all of the power, food and water that they supply the palis. Give them something to whine about. Maybe they can rebuild those greenhouses they trashed...

2. Everytime the Hamasnicks celebrate in the streets for mudering Jews, Israel shoul look at the gift of many terrorists in the open at the same time in the same place. White phosphorous is a beautiful thing in such a case. So is napalm. The white phosporous will kill many, but more importanly leave the survivors with hideaous disfigurements. They will be an object lesson.

3. Tear down that abomination of a Mosque on the Temple Mount. Let them know that they do not get to spam their religion on other people's property.

4. Everytime one of them gets caught smuggling weapons or explosives across the boarder, no handwringing, just a pistol shot to the head. Fortunately they wear nice big rags on their heads to clean up any mess.

5. Everytime a rocket is launcehed, flatten a squre mile around the launch site with heavy artillery. The palis elected Hamas, they get to have the responsibility of electing a genocidal terrorist organization. The social contract works both ways.

6. Hunt down Hamasnicks. Blow up the Hamas gov't buildings, television stations and mosques.
Do it when there are as many of the rats inside as possible so they don't fade back into their holes.

7. Take back the northern part of Gaza. Keep it permanently. Sorry you don't get to launch stikes and expect nothing to happen. Kill all resistance that pops up.

8. Break their will to fight by showing them that Allah does not help animals like them.

9. Tell them taht this is what war means. The gloves will stay off. They can either make peace or die.

Maybe below facts was not widely published, but significant percentage of suicide bombers are people that being forced to do so against their will. For example there is Palestinian girl that being raped and forced to become suicide bomber otherwise the fact would be known to the family and that’s shame on whole family, so instead the family being honored by having shahid. Or boy that being infected by AIDS in purpose for making him decide dying as hero and not by the AIDS... There are brainwashed nice boys and girls that doing this ugly, stupid act that against human nature and this should be changed by education, but who controlling it if not the same Muslim extremists/radicals that interpret Koran not for original purpose of any religion: don't kill, don't sin, but for their purpose.
There is no power in the world that can change it. Looks like it will go on and on.

"As long as there is no real change in individual and group thinking of the Middle East’s leaders, the region is doomed to paralysis."

Your first and final statements bring home the ultimate point. That being that nothing will ever be done to finally end the tensions. Not because it cannot be done, but rather because the Islamo - Fascists have twisted the religion so far that it is no longer the Quran that was once understood as positive

With that said, I believe that since the Radical Islamic groups will never accept the West or Israel regardless of how much money or influence they hold in the world, we should attempt to complete the takeover of the entire Muslim world to effectively eliminate the sub-culture that spurs the pure hatred of anyone other than them.

Logically thinking, even if we had 1+ million US deaths, this will save lives and tensions down the road for centuries to come, and will allow most rational thinkers and leaders of the world to move on with more pressing matters that have more impact on the world as compared to dedicating our collective resources to a World Culture Minority that stands against most principles that have anything to do with individual freedom.

So in conclusion, seeing as how radical Muslim fanatics represent less than 0.001% of the overall Muslim population, perhaps the saner and sensible portion of their sect can begin trying to influence their subversive movement, rather than silently agreeing with them and publically denouncing them (and not even all that much). Otherwise the only other choice will be a total annihilation of the Muslim culture as you know it today by using subtle influence over time. Once that is completed, the remaining “normal” Muslims will have a chance to practice their religion without fear of a US Missile dropping on their heads because they have been hiding terrorists in their bathrooms and blaming America when we kill everyone in the house.

Much like Rabid Dogs, you cannot negotiate with terrorists or extremists. They have only one goal, that being the total destruction of the West. Our response can be nothing short of delivering the death that they so feverishly work for ;)

Isn't this exactly what Arafat turned down?

ECONOMY MODEL; REQUIRES ONLY 3 STEPS.
I begin sharing by my perspective via the simple questions: why does Anwar Sadat lie moldering in the grave? Why did the bus bombings of innocent commuters (the mothers and babies everyone only seems to want to ask Israel about in terms of accountability) start and then intensify in the 1980s? Why did more casualties in the so-called first infatada result from Palestinian-on-Palestinian violence (and the cover of Newsweek about 5 years ago show a dead Palestine dragged by others through Bethlehem)? Why do, first, street bombings (including, say, families gathered around the Passover cedar table) and more recently, rocket attacks seem to intensify during peace overtures -- resulting each time in a "lets call the whole thing off" collapse? (Forget for a moment mass Islamic-on-Islamic barbarism in masques and markets, and Hindu/Islamic violence in India; I'm sure these would all vanish if the “Palestinian problem” were solved…NOT!)
Is the answer to these; because Israel is not serious about peace? Or is it rather that because peace, however improbable, was at those times almost within reach -- or at least being reached for?
The questions beg the answer obviously, but no one seems to notice. Yet, nobody in a responsible position anywhere is benefiting from this “mother of all” vicious cycles (reminiscent, albeit far more tragically, of the film, Groundhog Day, in which the same character is forced to re-live the same day over and over until important lessons of life and loving are learned).
SO: I have a simpler and therefore more practical “three” step solution.
• Lets let the parties go through the next round of whatever it is they go through; achieving whatever they can, for now;
• But then: lets please have a formal consensus of the world actually matching it's peace loving rhetoric; one that holds: the process itself is hereby deemed essential to world peace and stability. Simple?
• THEN; whatever faction (or proxy; it's not even necessary to name the puppeteers here) disrupts the process -- for partisan objectives or religious dogma -- by spontaneous violent acts thereafter (and we have our own possible perpetrators here too: e.g., why does Rabin lie moldering in the grave?); let that actor then and immediately be designated officially as Enemy Of The World, for they are exactly that, and be dealt with accordingly.
An Immediate, aggressive, unified response would be best -- and maybe even attainable under this framework, but: even the clear label once and for all may prove almost as efficacious: finally; clarity, purpose, isolation and possible containment of the contagion that infects the world.
Plus you save the cost of 6 full steps during a possible recession.

6. After securing a stable and permanent cease-fire, an intensive round of negotiation will be opened to conclude a peace treaty based on four central principles:
A. Israel has to agree to withdraw from all the occupied West Bank lands and dismantle most of the Jewish settlements there, while guaranteeing its security needs.
B. A Palestinian State will be declared and recognized by the UN. The Palestinian State will be fully demilitarized.
D. Israel within its 1948 recognized borders will not accept Palestinian refugees.
-----
A. Why Isreal should not give back all the occupied territories?
b. u mean Pelestinans should always be under the Israel
D. Jews all over the world has the right to live in that Area,,,but only Palestinans have no right to live in their own land... Wow, wht ideas you have. nothing but hypocracy

On the murder of the Jewish religious students: It is not correct that Hamas took credit...There were some in Gaza that displayed support for the act according to press accounts. Hamas did not take credit for the attack . A goup supporting Hezbolah stated it was a revenge act for the killing of Iman in Damascus last month. More reports of Isareli planes flyingover Beirut and there are US warships off Lebanon's coast...if Isarel takes on Hezbollah without an agreement tacist or otherwise then they will need another Winograd investigation next year...Israel needs to encourage a unity government in Palestine and/or make its own agreement with Hamas if Abbas remains an obstacle to intra Palestine unity

It's such a shame... terrorist killed people in Jewish seminary in Jerusalem, innocent people, religious, not armed... Hamas took responsibility... I sure that other organization or nation wouldn't kill other people while they pray... Israeli also killing innocent people in Gaza, but the only reason is that Hamas using them as a shield. They are using kids and woman to hide behind...
Golda Meir once told: “We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us”.

Point one is a total non-starter and Israeli propaganda. We're now seeing yet another round of vengeance killings that will ultimately result in the abandonment of Israel by residents who don't want to live in a perpetual state of war.

Los Angeles and Europe beckon. This conflict promises only death and destruction, forever.

SOLUTION: LEVERAGE WATER FOR PEACE

Hey Yoshi, have you ever wondered what it's like to own land with NO WATER?!?

One could only imagine what it's like to pay for water as a Palestinian.

Pray, do tell about the current state of Israel's aquifers?

And do tell about the powers behind desalinization projects and the 10 Billion dollar endeavor to bring water from the Red Sea to the Dead Sea.

Here's a SOLUTION: LEVERAGE WATER FOR PEACE. Using available wastewater remediation technology, employ brave Israelis and Palestinian to build a wastewater remediation/purification facility TOGETHER, sharing in the labor and the rewards. There's some pragmatic and common ground for you.

Ibrihaim,
(sp) Read Innocents Abroad - Twain did indeed write this. Also, review Churchill and Marx's early articles, they both make the same claims.

Good ideas, but you do not know your enemy to better defeat her or him. The Arab/Muslim world has been humbled by tiny Israel, and this one fact keeps the kettle boiling. That is, they are using their brethren as cannon fodder to avenge their honor.

The only solution is to pay economic compensation, and expel all Arabs from Israel, and this includes Gaza and the West Bank. If this is declined, demand compensation be paid to the Jews exiled from Arab land. Afterward, militarily drive the Arabs from the land, and continue building the wall, along with rocket defense capabilities.

Know your friends well, keep them close, know your enemies better to destroy them.

Rashid
You corrected my posit that the present day Palestinians are the descendents of the Caananites and Philistines by saying.
“Mafouz- you are partly correct- some of the Palestinians are descended from the minority of those Cannanites and Phillistines who did not assimilate into the Israelite population after the Israelite conquest. The others are descended from the unrelated Arab invaders.”

When Omar I entered Jerusalem the whole population of Palestine were Christians. Those are the descendents of the Canaanites and Philistines with few Greeks. This population remained predominantly Christian till the 14th Century when the Egyptian Sultan Baybrus as a “retaliation” against the Crusaders carried out a campaign of “religious cleansing” against the Christians of Greater Syria, as if the natives had anything to do with those wars. No doubt there are some Arab blood in the present population, especially among the inhabitants of the towns around Jerusalem( Bethlehem, Ramallah Beir Zeit, etc. )who moved in from Yemen in the 15th Century, but there is at least that much Jewish blood, not to mention European from the Crusaders who settled there. The whole family of Barghouthi are decedents of French Crusaders. You only have to compare the features of the Palestinians with the Gulf peoples as well as their cultures; folklore , food, music, rural women garments etc. to gauge the difference. The Israelis know the above very well , but do not publicize it because it does not serve their purpose.

QUINN,

The information that I have to share is multifarious. Firstly, the Vanity Fair article that has been referred to by so many bloggers on this site, reprinted in Tikkun, a Jewish magazine that tries to knock some sense into Israeli foreignpolicy makers' heads so that tragedies like the loss of eight innocent Jewish lives (but also more than 50 inocent Palestinian lives) don't happen. But there are barabrians out there who prefer to listen to Condoleeza Rice and/or post hate literature on WAPO PostGlobal Forum rather than listen to the voice of reason.

But, yes, I have MORE information to share. Check out http://files.tikkun.org/current/article.php?story=20080305212552907

and

http://files.tikkun.org/current/article.php?story=20080304090911823

If you need even more info, revert to me.

why do jews always wants others to pick up the tap?

Mafouz- you are partly correct- some of the Palestinians are descended from the minority of those Cannanites and Phillistines who did not assimilate into the Israelite population after the Israelite conquest. The others are descended from the unrelated Arab invaders.

Was there peace before 1967 when the Israelis were NOT occupying the West Bank, Gaza or East Jerusalem? We all know there wasn't. So why do so many say the occupation is the root cause of the problem?

Mr. Malleck : Is not a Hudna a form of truce offered by a Muslim to a non-Muslim, which can be breached by the Muslim, at any time desired, and without any reason ? I also don't know why these lives were lost because of Israeli barbarity, instead of being lost because of Arab barbarity. Do you have some information to share ?

MELMAN,

I have been wanting to post what follows for the last 16 hours at least, but I decided not to because I think that warmongers are too stupid to be given good advice.

But, now that eight innocent Jewish youths have lost their lives because more than 50 innocent Palestinian civilians have lost their lives in the past few days because of the Israeli Government's barbarity, here are the nine steps:

(1) Talk to Hamas. You should have accpted the Hudna in the first place.

(2) Talk to Hamas.

(3) Talk to Hamas.

(4) Talk to Hmas.

(5) Talk to Hamas.

(6) Talk to Hamas.

(7) Talk to Hamas.

(8) Talk to Hmas before other innocent and not-so-innocent Jewish lives are lost because of blind retaliation for 20 times more innocent and not-so-innocent Palestinianlives are lost in blind 'might-is-right' barbaric warfare.

(9) Talk to Hamas and reciprocate their sincere wish for peace and dignity for all peoples of the Middle East.

Devlin: You are exactly correct.

There is a simpler way that the whole world would applaud.

Evacuate Israel now. By any means necessary.
With no right of return. Equal justice.

Palestine for the Palestinians.

You are a fool if you think that the Arabs under the PA will stop their attacks on Israel if they gain control of Gaza. They don't care what we or the west wants...they are the same as Hamas except that they hide behind masks so all the fingers would point at Hamas rather than them, which makes them even more dangerous than Hamas in the long run. You think your so wise, telling people "I told you so"...wait till the PA has its own state, then remember this comment because i'll be thinking "I told you so"

This plan is virtual and never will be implemented for 1 simple reason: one side don't want peace, while other want peace but can't do it without other side.

I am not trying to find who was first on that land (as most of you did) because it’s pointless. History could be interpreted differently depends who doing analysis.
In current history it is important to remember that UN offered country to Jewish and to Palestinians in 1947, but Israelis accepted it while Palestinians opened the war.

Let’s see what is happening currently; what the intensions of the represented sides are?
Arabs want that Israel will just disappear, but for a meanwhile they can't do that and that the reason that they divided to who want to do it in long way (some kind of temporary peace agreement with further terror activity but with establish Palestinian country - Fattah) and short way (just war - Hamas). Don't forget that Fattah also have long history of terror attacks in the world and not always Israel was the reason for that.

When somebody killed in Israel all Arabs are celebrating that fact. Did you hear once that Israeli people were happy when civilians have died in Palestine? The answer is NO...
Israel is just one of front lines in worldwide war... If Israel will disappear, we will get more terror attacks in North America and Europe. The same reason is why USA so involved with Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc... I sure that there is oil and money involved in Iraq war, but for Afghanistan there is no reason for USA and Europe to be involved except keeping terror away from USA and Europe. There is simple fact that all current terrorists came from Muslim countries. I don't know why it's happening, but its fact and we need to face it. Can you imagine that Jewish will go to some Muslim country and will blow himself in the crowd? I don't think so...

I sure that there is bad and good people in each nation; the question is how their anger is realized in actions and what government doing against it... I know that in Israel there are criminals that killed Palestinian civilians because of hate, but they were found and placed in the jail. In other side when Palestinian will kill Israeli civilian, he will be honored by others.

I hope I made my point...

A. Israel has to agree to withdraw from all the occupied West Bank lands and dismantle most of the Jewish settlements there.....

Why MOST not all Jewish settlements if Israel is returnig to it's 1948 borders?

Isreal was created by the British, et al after WWII. Yes, the land was effective stolen - so was the US from the Native Americans; so was many other lands over the course of time.

There is no way Isreal will just disappear, move on, etc. Would/Should the US do the same? I think not.

Here's the rub - Isreal won't/can't give the land back; Palenstine needs a place to 'be' - they want Isreal, but can't have it.

So, Isreal can pull back to some arbitrary border that everyone can agree upon, Palestine could be created with more land than it currently has - if Isreal really wants peace, then it will give up what it needs to to have that. Conversely, if Palestine really wants peace, than it will have to acknowledge Isreal as most of the world does.

In my mind, this is just another religious war, based on (frankly) fiction, that both parties BELIEVE they are the true people of the area. I've got news for them - neither of them are correct, and eventually, this mess will go away, one way or the other. 60 years from now, will we be having this same conversation? Or will someone have 'won'? Or will a reasonable compromise be reached? Or will both Isreal and Palestine cease to exist?

Also, if an agreement is reached, whose to say that 10 years later, one or the other will start the fighting all over again?

If we were to only think of the future, not the past, would we all be better off, at least for the time being?

The people of Palestine have suffered more than anyone in this fight, and part of the problem is that the US, and it's citizens,(including myself via taxes), support Isreal with technology, money, and influence. Not only is it not fair in the purest sense of the word, but it makes very little foreign policy sense.

Melman is saying in effect: If I had some eggs, I could have ham and eggs, if I had some ham. This is better than one of his colleague David Landau at the left wing Haaretz who wants the US to "rape Israel" to obtain peace.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=55&x_article=1416