It would have been nice if the Washington Post had filtered Virulent Nazi propaganda, like the one signed by "Goldstein", out of its forums, if only to spare idiots like Ted the embarrassment of falling for it in public.

International war criminal nation israel threatens Lebanon with war
International war criminal nation israel Kills 4 After Hamas Offers Terms for Cease-Fire RAMALLAH, West Bank, 13 March 2008 — Hours after Hamas publicly offers terms for a cease-fire with Israel, calling for an end to Israeli attacks in the Palestinian territory and a reopening, bloodthirsty war criminal israelis kill again...
http://www.albertpeia.com
http://www.albertpeia.com/currentopics10108.htm
http://www.albertpeia.com/wallstreetlunacy10108.htm

Goldstein exposes the problem completely. Consider his statement above:
"Jews Are Omnipotent--- Unstoppable:
Jews have every right to control the world governments, economy and media. What you people do not realize is that Jews are the chosen people of God. The Lord loves us ONLY...

We are smarter, better than any another race or religion.

The scriptures reveal that the Jews shall one day rule the world and all other will serve the Jews. This is devine fate.

Remember, Jesus was a Jew--- and Christians think that he was god. All Jews are great!
Goldstein"

Any people who feel they can do anything and get away with it because they are God's chosen will never treat those they consider lesser entities with respect. Israel was a terrorist state when created and continues as the worlds number one terror state. The Gaza prison is more restrictive than the West Bank, but it too remains a prison where "settlers" have the ability to take over Palestinian lands with full approval of the Israeli government, carry weapons and have their own militarily protected transportation corridors. Israel dooms itself to extinction unless it stops the outrageous apartheid treatment of it's neighbors and relatives. The Palestinian people are being treated by Israel just as European jews were treated by the Nazis when they were forced into ghettos. And didn't some of those brave Jews resist with whatever means were at hand? Why does the world see Palestinian resistance as terrorism while honoring the Jews who resisted in European ghettos?. After all the Israelis grabbed their Land from the Palestinians by carrying out terrible massacres of civilians to force them to flee for lives to Jordan and Egypt. Zionist revisionist lies can change the historical record or todays facts of the brutal mistreatment of an entire people by the US client state Israel!

I urge all to read Gershon Bascom's March 10th article in THE JERUSALEM POST, The Moral Majority for Peace, then put his proposals into action!

To sad JOE.
Sadly you are so blinded by left-wing dogma that you can't face reality. which is why because of your bellicose comments and ideosyncratic views your post can be best described as a ''THEATRE of ILLUSIONS'' and one dose not have to strive energetically to find the proof. since it's there for all to see.

As I rethink Mr. Gumede's comments, it seems truly sad that a victim of true racism and apartheid in S. Africa is somehow led to misconstrue the situation in the Middle East.

One wonders if Mr. Gumdede missed the UN conference in Durban, S. Africa, where
Palestinian / Arab racism and anti Semitism were on display before the whole world.

One wonders how Mr. Gumede could have missed the implications of that display of racism and anti Semitism for the struggle of the Arabs to destroy Israel, because of their underlying belief that only Islamic majority countries should exist in the Ummah.

One wonders further how Mr. Gumede could suggest he is an informed journalist, without being spurred to think more deeply about the Arab racism displayed at the UN conference on racism in Durban.

One would have thought that such a display in his own part of the world would have stimulated him to think more deeply about the Palestinians and their actual goals in this conflict.

It appears that in the case of this journalist ideology trumps the facts.

To the spamming poster below:

You must have confused us with some other people. Jews, as everyone knows, don't believe that everyone has to submit to Judaism. We believe that one can be a fine, upstanding person- even a holy saint, and not be Jewish; just as a Jew can be a horrible person.

It is ISLAM that believes that theymust subjugae all non-Muslims. That's what Dar al-Islam, Dar al-Harb, and Jihad are all about. That's what dhimmi status is all about too. Feel free to look up these terms if you want to.

denis,

Let's talk apartheid. If you want apartheid, then look within the Muslim Arab world - like in Saudi Arabia, where according to Islamic law, no non-Muslims can even VISIT.

Or in the Sudan, where the Arabs practice SLAVERY against the Blacks.

Or even in the Philistine-occupied territories, where it is a CAPITAL OFFENSE to even SELL land to a Jew- as in death penalty.

In Jordan it's also illegal to even SELL land to a Jew, but at least there's no death penalty for it.

Israel, on the other hand, is the ONLY country in the Middle East where the Christian population is actually growing, where they actually outscore the Jews in education- and have a lower infant mortality rate.

And that in Israel, Muslim Arab citizens have more rights and freedoms than in any MUSLIM ARAB country.

We really should treat the Muslims here like the Muslims around us treat non-Muslims. After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander-right?

What we have here is a "dance of death" in which cycles of violence sparked by Israeli apartheid will make Israel eventually unvlable. If the US persists in its misaken policy, there will be a catastrophic MidEast war that will kill millions and cut off oil, bringing down the US economy. Mazel tov.

Let's not forget about the ethnic cleansing of the 'JEWS' from all the Arab countries.nearly a million had to flee to Israel.many went to America one must remember that the jews lived in the Arab countries long before 'ISLAM' ever existed.

Therefore.why not resettle the Palestinians in the Arab countries.since they have the same culture and religion also the Arabs and the Palestinians believe in the Bible 83 verse four quote''Come and let us cut them off from being a nation that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance'' unquote.

The start of the so-called peace talks is nothing but.a political ploy by the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to put off any Israel military attack against Hamas in Gaza who killed eight innocent young jews last week.

In the end the Palestinians will be their own grave diggers since their hatred of the jews is deeply ingrained in the consciousness of all of them and that also includes the Arab countries.

thopaine,

I have some breaking news for you:

1. The American people support Israel VERY much- and NOT the Philistines:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104734/Americans-Most-Least-Favored-Nations.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104719/China-Down-France-Americans-Ratings.aspx

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3515594,00.html

2. Israel isn't a theocracy.

3. The Philisitnes have had MANY opportunities to establish a state in peace in MY land during the past decades (they NEVER had one before), but they chose war INSTEAD.

That was their choice.

Can you accept that?

Mr Kohn, would it surprise you to learn that many fair minded persons do not accept that Jews are chosen; that G--d gave certain land to them.or that there is even any god at all, let alone one who choses people, and territory?

If you can not accept that, than maybe the US people need to rethink our support.

Americans do not take kindly to theocracies.

Can you accept that?

The Philistines would have had a state in 1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.

They would have had a state in 1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).

They could have had a state in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza from 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that's exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and thre PLO (1964).

They could have had a state after 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:

A. No peace with Israel
B. No recognition of Israel
C. No negotiations with Israel

They would have had a state in 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.

The Arabs will just have to learn to "make do" with their own 99.9% of the Middle East- including all of the oil, and stop trying to steal OUR tiny 1/10th of 1% without oil. The Philistines won't have a state here in Israel, and if they don't stop their violence, they won't even exist here anymore. They will have to go to their own land; Jordan.

Each day Israel takes over more territory creating more settlers on occupied land. The number of Palestinians held in "administrative detention" increases without charge or trial.
No matter what ones views about Gaza, the fact is that the people there could not live a normal life under any circumstances. Israel has forbidden them to have an airport or travel by ship and they are not allowed to trade or travel.
This is what a prison looks like.

"essentially collective punishment of all Palestinians for the actions of a few Hamas militants and their leaders."

The Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, knowing full well that Hamas calls for the complete destruction of Israel. More than two-thirds of Palestinians polled support the use of murderous bombings against Israeli civilians. Thousands of Palestinians, not just "a few", celebrated the violent murder of 8 Israelis in a house of prayer and study last week. The Palestinian people in Gaza have fired more than 2000 rockets into Israel!!! And these rockets are often launched from mosques, hospitals, or crowded apartment buildings. It's not just "a few Hamas militants and their leaders." Imagine if one rocket from Cuba landed in Florida, let alone 2000 over several years. Would anyone call a US blockade or invasion to root out the attackers "disproportionate"?

Please learn more about the long and complex history of this region before publishing your ignorant and biased comments.

The Zionists wormed their way into the Middle East and followed their plan of displacing the indigenous population. Over time they engineered two world wars in order to force the European Jews to move there. And as an added bonus they took over American foreign policy and made American taxpayers their slaves. It's time to put an end to that sorry country.

We should sever all ties beyond purely business and economic interests to the entire region. If they want peace then they can reach it on their own. If they want war let them kill each other off. The whole world would be better off for it.

I am 1/2 jewish first off, but I think the US should declare that it will not engage in any negotiations, mediations, or otherwise even pretend to try to help until there are multiparty talks with all of Israel's neighbors 1st. The palestinians don't have their act together enough to even conduct talks (with hamas on one hand and abu masen on the other) and the israelis are just as bad (bombing raids that kill 100 and announcing new settlements during negotiations).

Until the Muslim countries meet consistently with the palestinians and try to help ($110 barrels of oil should give them some extra charity cash I assume) and get them to the point where negotiations are even possible, there is no point.

Until Isreal stops acting like the apartheid regimes of South Africa, there is no point. Until there is a point, there is no point - just focus on humanitarian aid until there is.

Aren't we amazed by the ignorance of people that are provided such a forum such as this one afforded Mr. Gumede?

Where is god's name did he arrive at his thesis.

Anyone?

Thank you,
Providence

There is absolutely nothing the United Nations, the USA, the EU or anybody else can do about it. The Israelis are divided 33 different ways largely by degree of religious commitment. They can never agree to land for peace. The Israeli government is a weak coalition and getting weaker.

The "Pals" as inept and inexperienced in government and similarly deeply divided.

The Egyptians and Jordanians don't want to return to their pre-67 commitment to govern the "Pals".

There is no way out. Conferences and meetings are exercises in self delusion. This conflict will go on until nuclear war ends it.

One can only assume that Mr Gumede is well intentioned. However, he shows a complete lack of historical understanding of the conflict in the Middle East. Israel has been under attack by pan Arabist and Islamist haters for 60 years. Both the PLO and the Hamas have been dedicated to the destruction of a Jewish majority state since 1947, and this can be proven with historical documentation. If Mr. Gumede views this conflict through the prism of 1960s post colonial rhetoric and views the Palestinians as poor victims of colonial oppression, he is missing the crux of the conflict. The crux of the conflict is the very existence of Israel. That is what inflames the Arabs in the region. The only dependable ally Israel has is the United States, and until the Palestinians accept the fact that their continuous assault on Israel will bring them nothing but death, chaos, and proverty, the conflict will not end. Mr. Gumede's viewpoint merely perpetuates the conflict by enabling the Palestinians in their refusal to accept the best deal they can get, rather than everything they want.

Get thee to a library Mr. Gumede and read the history including then UN 1947 partition of what was left of the Palestine Mandate.

As to Gumede's comments. Are we getting the right
news? It is my understanding that Israel is under
continuous attack with rocket fire from Gaza and
is being criticized for using defensive measures.
It is a wonder that more has not been used up to
now, but would predict that if it continues,
there will be an intense defensive maneuver.
Again, Are we hearing and seeing the
right news, or is there something else we should
know? HELP!

here is a new idea. YOU FIX IT!

Each day Israel takes over more territory creating more settlers on occupied land. The number of Palestinians held in "administrative detention" increases without charge or trial.
No matter what ones views about Gaza, the fact is that the people there could not live a normal life under any circumstances. Israel has forbidden them to have an airport or travel by ship and they are not allowed to trade or travel.
This is what a prison looks like.

Israel is a punk nation waving a big American/European stick. This little nation that practices apartheid while the west winks is a disgrace to the word democracy. These barbarians feel that it is their duty to police another nation.

The west in its blind support of this European Aryan nation is turning the world against it and Israel. Would America and Europe support Israel if it was a non-white nation, I doubt it.

Israel is a small nation of about six million in the mist of a hostile population of hundreds of millions. Why should this country not follow the principles of democracy and hold elections among all who inhabit this land?

Gun barrow control has never succeeded in the past and I doubt if it will succeed now. END THE WAR IN IRAQ.

This is a disgusting distortion of reality.
If there is anything "spectacular," it has been Israel's patience and restraint in dealing with daily unprovoked missile barrages that have intentionally killed and maimed women and children.

What would Mr. Gumede have Israel do? What would his government do? Israel's closure of Gaza is for one purpose only, to prevent importation or smuggling of weapons. If the people of Gaza were willing to live in peace, there would be no need for it.

Mr. Gumede shouldn't spew his opinions on matters he obviously knows nothing about.

To ADAM:

Oh btw. This is not about the crime is South Africa either my silly friend. And no there is no crime in Isreal, except for the crazy nuts form Jerusalem who want to cover all of the Israeli woemn in burkhas and pelt stones at people houses since they watch MTV. What a pity, I happen to think Isreali women are fine to look at :)

And yeah, Im sure you are not counting the war crimes being committed in Gaza by killing babies in their sleep and defenseless civilians (some 150 in one week or less)

Look up the word 'facts' in a dictionary first.

To Adam and JOE (NOT the real joe):

What media brain washing are you talking about? Most of the media is controlled by Jews anyways.

In any event, whoever said anything about Jews you idiots? Most people count jews among our friends ;) This about ISRAEL and the apartheid being perpetuated on the Palestinians (NOT ARABS).

This is not about JEWS vs ARABS, you insane Zionists. This about ISRAEL (a fake country) against the PALESTINIANS.

Stop throwing in the usual pity-me Im a Jew argument again!! The world knows the difference between the terrrorism perpetuated by a country (Read Israel) and the successful, creative and humanistic jews of the world (including a lot of Israelis if I might add).

Israel does not belong there. Granted they are there and it is fait acompli. Stop beating up the HAMAS bogeyman. It is not about Hamas. It is about Israel not wanting peace. Get your asses back to the 1967 borders and maybe we can have a conversation. THEN, the world will back Israel to the fullest.

Till then, go back to your cushy little subarban American home and stop sending my tax dollars to the terrorist regime of israel.

PEACE!

at the end of the day, people who support israel continually go about it by presenting facts and cohesive arguments that are in depth. Those arguing against israel through out baseless statements. anyone can make a statement. a statement can be neither cohesive or a fact. screaming occupation etc means nothing. 95 percent of you couldnt even give the actual internationally recognized definition of occupation. 95 percent of you know nothing but the brainwashing from your chosen media outlets. how many truly know without looking, what is the Lausane treaty, how did the PLO came to be the PLO, why was showing palestinian identity illegal with Jordan for 19 years. the bottomline is most of you dont know anything, and im proven right by the idiocracy and amateurish messages all you israel bashers write. The same goes for Gumede who would be better off spending his time explaining how south africa is one of the most crime ridden countries in the world instead of israel that has close to zero street crime.

This article is a frothing bit of dung.

Only Israel is expected to absorb attack after attack and do nothing. Israel's response is "disproportionate" - in that any other nation in Israel's position would have already flattened the Palis long ago.

Also, the sheer idiocy of the comments is insane. Israel pulled out of Gaza. Israel did not interfere with the elections. Israel did not interfere when Hamas took over. Israel left them with all sorts of infrastructure that the Palis then destroyed.

But you are correct that Israel should completely pull out. That would mean no more supplying those animals with food, water, sewage treatment or electricity. The Palis have the lowest infant mortality rate of any Arabs in the mideast because they get access to Israeli medicine. Israel should keep them out of their hospitals too. Perhaps the Palis can build those things in their "state" rather than rockets. Perhaps they can study things like medicine and agriculture and engineering rather than killing and murder.

The palis get more international aid per capita than any other group of people on Earth. Look what they have to show for it.

I am utterly appalled by this article. The Arabs start war after war. The Arabs attack (or try to attack) everyday. The Arabs reject all offers of peace. The Arabs elect Hamas, which has sworn to make war on and destroy Israel. The Arabs launch rockets - that is an act of war you idiots - and you blame Israel.

It is high time Israel really gives them something to cry about and takes off the gloves. It is hight time, that when the Hamasnicks throw a parade, Israel takes the gift of a coupple of thousand irregular troops in one place at one time and hits them with napalm. It is high time that Israel destroys their munitions bunkers - even if they are placed in mosques. It is high time that Israel hunts down and kills the Hamas leadership. It is high time that the Palis learn that there is such a thing as personal responsibility. If you elect a genocidal terrorist organization, then the social contract works both ways and you take the consequences of the war they start. There will be no peace from half measures and there will be no peace when terrorist barbarians are whitewashed into some kind of hero.

I really don't care if you people here hate Jews. I really don't care if you think you are clever or if you think that your impotent whining will do anything to further the evil causes and the evil regimes you champion. There will come a day when Hamas and the Palis commit one atrocity too many, and then Israel will take off the gloves and do what the US or Britian or China or Russia would do in this situation.

As to the rest of you lefty pricks that want to say that Israel is not Jewish land, it was always Jewish land - just as much as Dublin is Irish. So cut the crap.

Finally, when the day comes that Israel has been pushed too far, and they take proper firm action, know that you left wing idiots helped to bring it because you helped to enable and embolden the terrorists. When that day comes, many more will die than if the world had been honest.

Jews have every right to control the world governments, economy and media. What you people do not realize is that Jews are the chosen people of God. The Lord loves us ONLY...

We are smarter, better than any another race or religion.

The scriptures reveal that the Jews shall one day rule the world and all other will serve the Jews. This is devine fate.

Remember, Jesus was a Jew--- and Christians think that he was god. All Jews are great!

Goldstein

Today, the Jews have power. So they are able to get away with anything.

A handful of Jews control most world governments, media, ecomony, etc. Even the U.S. Presidents are puppets of the Jews.

It seems hopeless--- until we realize that the Lord Jesus Christ always let's the Jews gain enormous power and wealth, then he crushes them when the world thinks that the Jews cannot be stopped.

Recent history: Russia, Germany (Jews controlled the governments and economies--- then Jesus sent down Lenin and Hitler to save the world.

Do not despair--- Jesus will send down another savior to rid the world of money hungry power hungry Jews.

John the Baptist

The Hamas Govt of Gaza, elected by the people of Gaza, fires missiles at Israeli communities across the 1949 cease fire lines. The easy response would be to bring in artillery and level Gaza. That is what the Palestinians would do to Israel if they had the artillery. Israel: stop pussyfooting around. They want to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. That's what they say. What is a proportionate response to a plan of genocide?

To :Jamesatkinson

Self-delusional?? Take at look at yourself in the mirror James-y. Why dont you go live as a Palestinian in Gaza for ONE day, and then come back and comment here?

And give me your address. I think I will claim your living room as my ancestral land (God told me so last night in a dream/delusional moment).

I will bring all my cousins from Turkmenistan and Ecuador and Somalia and have people from China pay for them to relocate to your living room.

In the next week or so, we will be planning to claim your bedroom and your garage as well. Might help you to start to prep the family to see if you all can squueze into the bathroom. Feel to throw peanuts (qassam rockets) at us from there.

we will just watercannon you in response.

Cheers!

It seems that left-wing political theories rather than political reality have encouraged Willian M Gumede into self-delusion when he said the West is not doing enough to end the so-called canage in Gaza. surely what can the West do when it is often being said that 'Time' is the father of all truth-it reveals itself.for example Hamas is certainly not a passionate aducation of peace between Palestine and Israel.

When Hamas terrorists kill innocent jewish men.women and children and Israel armed forces strike in revenge about two years ago Israel forces killed some six Hamas terrorists in battle some Western countries accused Israel of so-called massacres which was nothing but a pathetic fallacy since the Palestinians themselves have said they will fight to the death.therefore any massacre is self-inflicted.
Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza are nothing but a poisoned chalice to peace. let's not forget that after the Israel-Arab War in 1967. to bring peace to the Middle-East the West also America refused to send arms to Israel.but many socialist countries like China and the former Soviet Union responded by stepping up their own military aid to the Arab countries therefore America and the West had no option but to support Israel in time of need.

yes, U.S should make efforts to establish peace in the middle east region. The U.S can stop Israel from what it is doing now against palestine. The world doesn't understand why Israel is trying to enter gaza strip and construct buildings in the territory which belongs to the palestenians.

here is a thought. How about Israel go back to where it came from? Europe! beter yet, why dont we bring all the Israleis to Brooklyn and cal lit Israel. Heck bring the wailing wall with them. Id even throw in Texas for good measure if land is what they want :)

Ah, Truth be told!

Thank you for speaking on behalf of most of the world. In the next 20 years, as the prominence of the US erodes and India and China reach economic equilibrium, they and the EU will not turn a blind eye towards this issue and US monopoly over the issues in the middle east will be challenged.

Israel is here to stay and will prosper only if they treat the Palestinians better than they were treated by Hitler.

Ha what a joke. The Arabs, as always, have no one but themselves to blame. Despite the ignorance and venom displayed on this page, the Arabs again find themselves ruled by a fanatical regime named HAMAS, they fire missiles and rockets (the count now is +2000) over the border into Israel, and when Israel responds, they again cry for help. And conveniently, people like the author are there to provide it.

Well here's the 411: The entire world, even the bleeding heart Europeans have grown sick and tired of these troublemakers. No one likes them and no one wants them -- even their dear Arab brothers, who simply use them as pawns in their geopolitical games.

The average Gazans deserve sympathy. But they elected HAMAS and they are the ones shooting off rockets and mortars. So they will be the ones in the firing lines. Sorry, but that's war.

Don't like it, then go and join your families in Egypt.

Gaza had a great chance to build a real state when Israel pulled out in 2005 and all the donor countries threw millions of dollars at them. But what did they do? Tore the place apart, killed and jailed all their Fatah opponents, ruined the greenhouses, and basically F-ed up their future.

Again!

What is even more shameful is that the U.S. media continues to portray Israel as a victim rather than an ugly occupying power that has made the lives of Palestinians a living hell.

I think you used the word "impartiality" incorrectly in the last sentence of your second paragraph. But I agree wholeheartedly that the U.S. has acted woefully "disinterested" in one of the most important global issues of today. I only hope the next president can stand up more forcefully to Israel's cruelty toward the entire population of Gaza. The Palestinians have no more compromises to make. The major initiatives must come from Israel, and only the U.S. can force change from that quarter.

This is nothing more than typical Israel-bashing from someone who doesn't even pretend to hide his utter scorn and lack of sympathy for the Jewish state, and the lives of its citizens. Mr. Gumede clearly is not ready for prime time until he consults with more sophisticated anti-Semites and learns how to shed the requisite crocodile tears for Israelis terrorized by rocket fire and human bomb attacks before demanding the America strip Israel of all rights to self-defense. Heck, even Ahmadinejad and his genocidal pals could give him a few pointers on pretending respect for the old, sheep-to-the-slaughter Jewish culture that those collectively punishing Zionists have extirpated.

This is the direct consequence of when you have a president who is criminally incurious and irresponsible and is more interested in his work out routine than in responsible governance.

Listen, Gumede, you know, I know, we all know, and you hinted at it with your comment about "credible mediators" that Bush and his administration are universally discredited, both among America's allies and its enemies: Bush has not followed through on any foreign policy initiatives, which are simply comments made during photo-ops that are forgotten later. All the parties to this problem know that no substantial diplomacy can take place until a new American president takes office. So stop complaining about lack of action when you know that no action here would be viable. However difficult the problem, it will have to wait another year if it needs American diplomacy to fix it...

Mr.Gumede,
U are right because U know what apartheid,racism and occupation are.But this lack of urgency is a matter of institutionalized policy of succcessive US administrations which knuckle under the monolethic jewish lobby in America.

Hamas rockets= firecrackers:2 jewish occupation soldeirs killed vs 123 Palestinians murdered by US freely supplied F-16's and Apaches.

Like nuclear but apartheid south africa-intimate friend of israel-,Israel the colonail settler state, the racist apartheid militaristic jewish theocracy, will ultimately vanish;the sooner these jewish occupiers depart Palestine the better-all jews who desecended upon Palestine at or after 1914;it is better they depart peacefully or will eventually be evicted.

Does any one read history at all??? Remember the pope's crusaders and barbarian Moghuls who destroyed Baghdad in 1256 and occupied Damascus?Where are they??

Gumede wrote: "The Israeli blockade of the entire Gaza population, which is essentially collective punishment of all Palestinians for the actions of a few Hamas militants.."

I guess he missed the YTube video of thousands of Gazans celebrating the murder of eight teenagers at the Jewish religious school in Jerusalem.

Why wasn’t this footage being shown in America and Europe?

The footage shows “impoverished” Gazans handing out sweets to passing motorists honking their horns in joy (they have cars in Gaza ? heck its not Darfur you know). Watch the footage and ask why it is not being broadcast on major Western TV networks. (The clip is from Israeli TV news taken from Palestinian TV news.) Might it spoil the sympathy for Palestinians ? that the BBC, CNN, and others are trying to ram down viewers’ throats all the time?

Israel is nothing but another South Afrcia.Palestinians,being moslems or Christians, are treated like subhumans. Their houses are being demolished,their children are being jailed or killed on daily basis,their little farms are being bulldozed.Any Jew from all over the world is entitled for Israeli citizenship upon his arrival at Ben Gorion Airport, while the orginal land owners are not permitted even to visit the houses they were kicked from in Israel.The whole world should be ashamed of tolerating such an apartheid regime to cintinue in the 21st century. Israel as a pure Jewish state should not be permitted to continue anymore. Israel does have the right to exist but within its legal borders under UN resolution 181 and as a secular state for all its citizens regardless of their religion.Palestinian refugees must be given the right to return to their stolen homes and belongings in Israel.The only solution for this chronic Dlemma is establishing one secular state on all the land of Historical Palestine for Jews,Moslems and Christians with equal rights and responsibilities and without any kind of descrimination.

What is shameful is South Africa's lack of urgency to the human rights crisis in Zimbawe, Chad, Zaire, or anywhere else in Africa. Shameful too is your ignorance of what the issues are in the ME and its history considering that it is your job to be a bit more literate. Shameful too are the editors here who couldn't put a little balance in this forum and left us stuck with left wing Melman who represents only one side in his arguments, and not the Israeli one.

As other talkbackers have mentioned, a proportional response is one that addresses the threat a country faces, eg. if mortars and rockets are being fired into Israel then a proportional response is to fire back at the launching areas, destroy facilities for the production of rockets and to otherwise disrupt human and material infrastructure dedicated to continuing the ongoing hostilities. It is not a body count game, nor does Israel have to relinquish its technological advantage.

Unfortunately the result is civilian causulaties since all the terror infrastructure is located amongst civilians, and distinctions get blurred. Israel has tried other forms of pressure including economic pressure on Hamas to persuade the Hamas leadership to cease the rockets, but as long as it is neccessary there will probably be limited ground incursions since that is the most effective way to destroy warehouses and manufacturing facilites with minimum civilian causulties. Even the last incursion was directed against armed elements and not civilians with somewhere around 70% of the causulties being armed and active combatants. As for the rest, clearly it is unfortunate that civilians were killed, but Hamas is basically responsible for using civilian areas to fire rockets against Israel.

It seems to be a basic tenent in these talkbacks to align opinions on specific subjects (proportional, not proportional response) to underlying biases. So if one hates Israel/Jews/Judaism (and lots of Jews hate Judaism) it is permitted to bend or skip over facts as one wishes.

What is going on in Gaza, IMO, is that Hamas has made apolicy decision to wage a low level war with Israel by capturing an Israeli soldier and firing rockets at Sderot. It is good for Hamas, gets them the aid and attention they want and excuses them in the eyes of the people of Gaza from dealing with mudane matters. They are also stark violations of international standards (has the Red Cross been allowed to see Schalit?) that can only bring more destruction to the people they represent . Too bad they do not choose another course that would eventually allow dialouge and an improvement for all.

You know Israel doesn't plan to remove the settlements in the West bank because they want Israel to look like it did when David was king. Put another way too many Israelis still have their heads up their XXXX.

Independence is the key word.

I don't know but I think the world is disgusted with the Middle East period. These are people who endanger world security because they can't solve their own problems. And the USA could start by removing their own troops. Then say look solve your problems and don't let your problems spill over into the rest of the world or you are going to put your whole area at risk because the rest of the world is not going to put up with it anymore. Another thing all arms sales to the area should be stopped immediately. And take the millions offered on the heads of outlaws in the Middle East and offer those to people who make major contributions to innovations to make the world independant of hydrocarbons. But there are too many egos in the world and the Middle East.

Israel vs Palestina = Serbia vs Kosovo = GB vs North Ireland = Canada vs Quebec = USA vs Florida (Cuba's majority) = USA vs South California (Mexico's majority)= Spain vs Baskia...Give them all independence. STOP hipocrisy.

Israel vs Palestina = Serbia vs Kosovo.
Give Palestinians independence liku you give it Albaniens in Kosovo. There is not any diference. STOP double standards. Give independence: North Ireland, Baskia, Scotland, Korzika, South Tirol,South California, Florida (Cuba majority), Quebeck ...

Israel vs Palestina = Serbia vs Kosovo.
Serbs are war crimes but Jewish not.
Give Palestinian independence like Albaniens (Kosovo). There is not any diference. STOP double standards. It only way to peace. All other is hipocrisy.

Israel and the US had hoped to coerce some hapless representatives of the Palestinian people to sign a treaty, so they could have diplomatic cover to continue with their settlements and to bomb Iran. Now that a treaty looks increasingly unlikely, this will not stop them from either of their other two goals. Increased violence from the Palestinians just plays into Israel's hands. Obama is refreshing because his refusal to take PAC contributions for his presidential campaign means that he is the first American presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter and the first Bush that the Jewish / Israeli lobby does not own and control. Carter and the first Bush were the only two American presidents who made the Israelis give any meaningful concessions to the Arabs. There's a lesson here.

ONE STEP to peace.

Want peace?

Go see all your Arab victims and offer to protect them, to give them back all you have taken from them and to restore, at your expense, everything you have destroyed that belonged to them.

"Simple, isn't it?"

Look. Here is a simple picture of the situation:

1. There was a systematic land grab of Palestinian land by Israelis
2. That resulted the war of 1967
3. That resulted Israel capturing Palestinian land and occupaying it
4. The Palestinians are resisting the occupation and fighting to drive Israel out of their homes
5. Israel wants to make its occupation permanent by building settlements on the Palestinian land and calling their fellow Jews from all over the world to return home (and besically settle in the occupied Palestinian land)

I believe the majority will agree on these points.

So what is the sensible way to bring this to an end?

OK. Let me try.

1. cease fire for one year
2. Israel to move out of Palestinian land upto the UN recognized border before 1967. And remove the illegal settlements on the Palestinian land.
3. Israel and Palestine sign peace treaty as two independant countries that share border.
4. UN peacekeepers at the border between Israel and Palestine to monitor the peace

My last harsh point is like this. If one of them disturbs the peace, nuke them. End of story!

The death of civilians on both sides is obviously tragic. However, the line between civilians and terrorists in GAZA is blurred. Did the "civilians' killed in an Israeli air strike recently have the right to locate a kassam assembly and storage plant within their home, and then expect it to be off limits to Israeli attacks? I think the blame for these civilian deaths lies largely with the people (presumably Hamas or Islamic Jihad) who chose to locate the rockets there. Some cynics claim this strategy is actually intentional since it increases International condemnation of Israel. And why is it only the palestinians that dance in the street when civilians are killed; this does not seem to take place in Israel. If you really think Israeli reaction is "disproportionate" why don't you compare civilian deaths in Gaza with those in Irag or Afghanastan at the hands of the American army. Finally, Israel has now withdrawn twice from Arab land, (Lebanonon and Gaza), and yet somehow their is always an excuse for the militants to fight on. The reason is that for many, perhaps most of them, their real goal is the eradication of Israel, and the establishment of an Islamic state.

i do agree with Mr William from South Africa.
what he has mentioned about middl east peace process. its been shame full for those people who talks with slogan of peace talk.

i dont understand where is peace keepers from UN security council, can they see what is happning with Iraq and Gaza. I mean in gaza and iraq same policies there, just to look for small group of people kill other 100 people and then get successfull. US policies to wards whole wold is horrible. but one thing i should say US and israeli friend ship is strenghened as been before for their own agenda,s.

Since that time Mr President BUSH was there in israel for peace talk.its seemed whole situation got worst. If Mr president of USA step in any matter its should be resolved not worse than worse. is there any problem with policiy or lack of loyality. is there any one honest and fair in that peace talk. I think if any one was honest then this worse situation could have better by now. but unfortunatly we hope for honest policies towards Israel and phalistain peace talk. GOD BLESS EVERY ONE.

Ellen and AMviennaVA, you 2 clearly dont have your facts straight, and may I add are uninformed and blatently anti-israel. First of all, Ellen you ask for Israel to give back control of Gaza to the Palestineans. If you didnt relize, Israel did give Gaza back and you know what happend? The Palestineans elected Hamas- an internationally recognized terrorist orginization to power.And if you still don't know, Gaza is firing thousands of rockets into civilian towns every day.
And furthermore, let me ask you a question. If the Native Americans started causing terror attacks and killing innocent Americans because they say it is there land and we took it from them, Would America give the land back? No,it is America's even though the Americans killed them out to get it. Now you have Israel whom was attacked by the Arabs, and yet they still won the land. Now they have to give back the land even though the only reason they won it was because the bloodthirtsy Arabs attacked them first? Ellen, you sicken me. You're ignorance truley shows me how illogical someone can be because of their hatred for another race.

It really is unbeilevable to read what some people write.OO the innocent Palestineans are being attacked by Israel- yes this is true, when Israel attacks unfortunatly there are a few civilian casualties. However, this is unintentional, but the OVER 7000 ROCKETS that have been launched against ISRAELI CIVILIANS is unexcusable. LEt me ask all of you a question, If Mexico fired over 7000 rockets over the border and into the USA, would our governemtn do nothing, or would we retaliate to protect our people?
The world talks about the humanitarian crisies in Gaza, but no one talks about how EVERY DAY tons of rockets are fired from Gaza into Israeli towns. Israel evacuated from Gaza and gave the Palestineans a chance. The "Innocent Palestineans People" are the own who eleced Hamas! Israel gave them a chance for peace, but no instead they shoot rockets at ISrael, and now the world condems Israel for retaliating? And now there is the story about 2 Palestinean terrorists going into a civilian Israeli school and shooting up the place killing 8 and wounding many more. We cant bargain will these people who all want Israel and its people dead.

Ellen: Absolutely correct. The carnage will end when the occupation ends. That means the removal of the settlements; removal of the wall; etc. (PS: If Israel wants a wall, it can always be built on the Israeli side of the border - anything else is not a security measure but a land-grab).

Can't end the carnage unless both sides want to end the carnage. The Arabs don't. They won't be satisfied until Israel has been destroyed and all its citizens murdered. Just look at the evidence.

Israel carried out all its obligations under the Oslo accords. The Palestinian Authority carried out none of its obligations under that agreement. See:
Relentless, the Struggle for Peace in the Middle East at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2533702461706761547&q=relentless

Maybe Israel can just give back control of Gaza back to the Palistians?

Maybe Israel can go back to its legally internationally recognized boarders?

That will protect Israeli citizens and bring peace.

It really is that simple.

Imagine Mexico wanted to expand boarders, including control over air and water space into the US, and then called it a buffer zone or something like that.

Imagine the US fired rockets into Mexico in response to the land grab (ridiculous as that rocket action may be), and then Mexico sent in the BIG GUNS and said, well it is your fault Amigos.

Real question is (and not a justification, however) why are those being fired into Israel?

Or why is it that the word community accepts this slow carnage? Truth is, no one cares and Israel wants the Palestinians gone.

This is the way of the world and always has been. Nothing new here.

This piece perfectly and painfully illustrates left wing anti-Israeli bias. The article says that not ending the carnage in Gaza is shameful but makes no mention of the carnage in Israel. Consequently the piece looses all connection with the causality and becomes a rant before its first sentence has even ended.

The statement that Israeli response is disproportionate has already shown to be fallacious. The Israelis are not responsible if Hamas chooses to launch its rockets at Israel from Palestinian schools. It is Hamas responsibility if it aims its own rockets at Israeli schools and times them for when children are leaving. The Palestinians entire strategy rests on the assumption that Israel will not attack civilians; this is why Hamas hides amongst them. This disproportionate argument also suggests that Israel should be randomly firing rockets into Palestinian cities in response to the attacks into Israel, instead of targeting the internationally acknowledged terrorists.

The Palestinians voted for the Hamas political platform of destroying Israel, this is perhaps why there is not as much sympathy for them as might be the case if they did not generally support Hamas. If you vote for war, you cannot be surprised if that is exactly what you receive.

The article then goes on to preach about credibility, when in fact by the end of the first paragraph it has lost any credibility of its own. I do wish people without a clue would keep their mouths shut and fingers off their keyboard.

I had previously been of the opinion that this was a quality news publication. Bill O’Reilly seems to be entirely correct about the editorial’s political agenda. This is not news it is merely poor propaganda.