Vivian Salama at PostGlobal: Ahmedinejad Provokes Important Discussions

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November 2, 2007 2:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments

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Rick:

Isn't this a joke; the terrorist state of US_Israel accuses the Iranian military of being a terrorist organization. Hilarious

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102402758_pf.html

October 25, 2007 10:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 25, 2007 10:12

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October 17, 2007 4:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 17, 2007 16:48

lmao:

my my...it would appear that the virtues you extol...such as open exchange of ideas....does appear be to be selectively applied at Columbia....does it not?

why can't you be honest about such things? do you understand that it is precisely the selective application of principle that leads so many to treat ALL your ideas with doubt...if not outright contempt?

October 10, 2007 10:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 10, 2007 22:04

Rick:

Islamaphobes,

Here is a good article that highlights what should be the focus of the Islamaphobes: the Israeli Lobby that is pushing us over the edge of the abyss. Here are some excerpts:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=26308§ionid=3510302

‘In my analysis, which is shared, for example, by Ilan Pappe, Israel's leading “revisionist” (which means honest) historian, the answer is that it's mainly the Zionist tail that wags the American dog. As I demonstrate in my epic, two-volume book, Zionism: The Real Enemy of The Jews, it is a fact that, with the arguable exception of Lyndon Johnson, every American President, including the idiot in the White House at present, tried to draw red lines that Israel should not cross; and on most occasions Israel put two fingers up and crossed them. There is no mystery about why the Zionist lobby (AIPAC plus) has such power. What passes for democracy in America is for sale to the highest bidder, and one of the highest bidders, and certainly the best organized and the most effective, is the Zionist lobby, now in association with Christian evangelical fundamentalism and parts if not all of the MIC (Military Industrial Complex). The Zionist lobby has three main weapons of influence:

- money, apparently unlimited, to fund election campaigns (candidates who offend Zionism can be and are destroyed - outspent);

- the organized Jewish vote in close election races (in half a dozen critical constituencies); and

- the use of the obscenity of the Nazi Holocaust as a blackmail card to silence criticism of Israel and suppress informed and honest debate. (On this front the Zionist lobby is assisted by the fact that, out of fear of offending Zionism, the mainstream media in America and throughout the mainly Gentile Judeo-Christian or Western world is complicit in Zionism's suppression of the truth of history. What, really, does the media fear? Punishment by the withdrawal of advertising revenue).’

October 10, 2007 8:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments

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Posted on October 9, 2007 04:25

alex:

Talk and even discussion can be really cheap. Hitler talked a good line, so did Clinton. Basically any car salesmen can . Thats there skill. Look at actions, if he's clamping down on dissent, threatening other countries and supplying
weapons to kill our soldiers, then you s/b able to see the truth. Everyone wants peace, that shouldn't blind you to reality. Otherwise you run the risk of
not seeing the gun cocked and the trigger pulled.

October 3, 2007 2:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 3, 2007 14:37

Parnum:

Hostile audience?

You gotta be joking!!!!!!!!

No follow up, no caqlling to the carpet. He spewed the same crap that he always says. Answer a question with a question.

I bet no one read the transcript, we never actually were told which eyebrow raising statements were made.

Strength through weakness -- great new policy

October 2, 2007 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 2, 2007 14:01

Parnum:

Wow, So which statements made you see things in adifferent light?

When he parroted Democratic talking points?

When he did not answer questions and got no follow up?

When he claimed women in Iran 'the most free in the world'?

When he said that we needed to study the Holocause more?

When he said Iran was for peace and love?

He won, we lost. Plain and simple. If you do not see that, then you must not understand what a 'postion of strength' is.

October 2, 2007 1:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 2, 2007 13:56

Moiz:

Hats off to the Iranian President for having the guts to enter into an open discussion with a hostile audience in NY.... too bad the American President does not have the intellectual and moral capacity to engage such an audience in his own country...

October 2, 2007 3:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 2, 2007 03:40

truth be told...:

Why is it every commentary on the Post is from a foriegn journalist that obviosly hates America as Much as the Washington Post does. All you liberals should be sick to you stomach for all that you do to bring America down the toilet. Disgusting!

October 1, 2007 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 13:47

alkanlevent @ washingtonpost:

Iran had the highest level of persian language and literature around 1000 AC. but later, maybe because of sorrow, the language descended from the sky to the peak of a mountain.

so, who is peaceful and calm, can be touching the clouds on the mountain and viewing the land beneath with his own eyes with grand vision, overwhelmed in grace and will of divine peace.

so who comes together to meet and speak are like mountaineers. mountaineers are fountains, on the mountains, like speakers and attendants in the meeting, like us on earth.

is this message much for two countries? no, this is the least. and we shall have the most together.

October 1, 2007 7:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 07:33

alkanlevent @ washingtonpost:

i had heard a phrase in Japanese as MU. if i have not misunderstood, Mu means that the structure of a question is not based on truth and logic, so unanswerable, inviting to correct.

Ahmedinejad happened in front of Columbia University staff and audience. with your words he spoke in flesh, unedited, with the most of a water can flow in a pipe within the current diameter, subject to vary.

Ahmedinejad did not say MU to any of the questions and replied with his own words through his mouth, what on his tongue were resident.

he was invited he spoke. Mr Bush can be in Tehran University, he shall be surprised with the attendance of the audience, i am sure.

October 1, 2007 7:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 07:19

GOLAM ARSHAD:

Hi Vivian,

You are Right! Scoring points on Iran is easy as 1, 2 and 3. I mean in the current foreign policy debates with Presidential hopeful for the Election of 2008.However, the recent uproar on President Ahmednizad's visit to Columbia University may have triggered and stigmatized Iran's growing political impact on Iraq's future. Do we engage Iran ? Or prompt a discourse ? What do you think?

Golam Arshad

October 1, 2007 6:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 06:40

Christopher Jon Batis:

Reaction to Ahmadinejad
by Christopher Jon Batis

The diatribe offered up like slop to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by the media and others is an unfortunate reflection of how we have allowed the enemies of democracy to cloud our senses and forget what this country is supposed to stand for.

Yes, the Iranian "dictator" and those of his ilk might be guilty of every obscenity they are accused of, but should we allow them to lower ourselves to their standards and not maintain our integrity for open, productive, and respectful discourse? What is the point of antagonizing further those with which we have serious opposition to their interaction with humanity?

My political views are left of center and there is not much with which I lend agreement to President Bush, however, I was surprised and impressed when he stated that Ahmadinejad's appearance at Columbia University "speaks volumes about really the greatness of America."

In a world teeming with injustice, war mongering, and kaos led by those who would twist and silence the voices of peace seekers, let us lead by example.

October 1, 2007 5:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 05:13

N>Natan:

Ahmadinejad, Ayatollahs, Bin-Laden and their world-disciples (who are not over-spoiled by petrodollars) just do not speak the SAME language as the Westerners :
And there is no existing DICTIONARY for these two different languages :

Indeed, in the eyes of these righteous Mahometan Islamists, all the Westerners (and Jews) are Dhimmis, or Infidels doomed either to be converted to Islam or to become, in turn, Dhimmis.

Therefore, the only Event which could prevent (to begin with) Tel-Aviv (= Israel) to be wiped off, sooner or later, by an atomic Bomb (missile or terrorist from Iran or Pakistan) is the ONLY “WORD” which these righteous Islamists would, fully and plainly, understand : “The Restoration of the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM” on its authentic Site (which is downstream of the Haram.

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http://jerusalem-4thtemple-natan.blogspot.com
"JERUSALEM TEMPLE versus AL-QAIDA"

October 1, 2007 3:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 03:50

N>Natan:

Ahmadinejad, Ayatollahs, Bin-Laden and their world-disciples (who are not over-spoiled by petrodollars) just do not speak the SAME language as the Westerners :
And there is no existing DICTIONARY for these two different languages :

Indeed, in the eyes of these righteous Mahometan Islamists, all the Westerners (and Jews) are Dhimmis, or Infidels doomed either to be converted to Islam or to become, in turn, Dhimmis.

Therefore, the only Event which could prevent (to begin with) Tel-Aviv (= Israel) to be wiped off, sooner or later, by an atomic Bomb (missile or terrorist from Iran or Pakistan) is the ONLY “WORD” which these righteous Islamists would, fully and plainly, understand : “The Restoration of the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM” on tis authentic Site (which is downstream of the Haram.

See Dictionary and explanations at :
http://jerusalem-4thtemple-natan.blogspot.com

October 1, 2007 3:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 03:47

N.Natan:

Ahmadinejad, Ayatollahs, Bin-Laden and their world-disciples (who are not over-spoiled by petrodollars) just do not speak the SAME language as the Westerners :
And there is no existing DICTIONARY for these two different languages :

Indeed, in the eyes of these righteous Mahometan Islamists, all the Westerners (and Jews) are Dhimmis, or Infidels doomed either to be converted to Islam or to become, in turn, Dhimmis.

Therefore, the only Event which could prevent (to begin with) Tel-Aviv (= Israel) to be wiped off, sooner or later, by an atomic Bomb (missile or terrorist from Iran or Pakistan) is the ONLY “WORD” which these righteous Islamists would, fully and plainly, understand : “The Restoration of the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM on its authentic Site (which is downstream of the Haram)

See "Dictionary" and explanations at :
http://jerusalem-4thtemple-natan.blogspot.com
"Jerusalem Temple versus al Qaida"

October 1, 2007 3:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 03:43

N>Natan:

Ahmadinejad, Ayatollahs, Bin-Laden and their world-disciples (who are not over-spoiled by petrodollars) just do not speak the SAME language as the Westerners :
And there is no existing DICTIONARY for these two different languages :

Indeed, in the eyes of these righteous Mahometan Islamists, all the Westerners (and Jews) are Dhimmis, or Infidels doomed either to be converted to Islam or to become, in turn, Dhimmis.
Therefore, the only Event which could prevent (to begin with) Tel-Aviv (= Israel) to be wiped off, sooner or later, by an atomic Bomb (missile or terrorist from Iran or Pakistan) is the ONLY “WORD” which these righteous Islamists would, fully and plainly, understand : “The Restoration of the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM”

See Dictionary for this unique “WORD” at :
http://jerusalem-4thtemple-natan.blogspot.com

October 1, 2007 3:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on October 1, 2007 03:39

JHL:

As a Berkeley student of the 60's, I'm pleased to see that Columbia had the integrity to invite Ahmadinejad to speak. I'm just as pleased that Columbia's president gave his speech and the audience asked tough question. This, I feel, is what a great university is all about -- providing a forum for unpopular views and the opportunity for them to be challenged. Hooray for Columbia.

October 1, 2007 3:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments

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September 30, 2007 11:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 30, 2007 23:42

Iran President speech at Columbia:

Can't help but comment on the last section of your diatribe. Do you honestly believe that Amadhinajab' (whatever his name) speech really contributed to world peace?
Or did the Democrats pay you by the word to earn a few extra bucks? Incredible, must have flunked into Columbia.

September 30, 2007 4:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 30, 2007 16:10

Rick:

Here is an interesting bipartisan reference to the historical population of Palestine:

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

It states that:

‘The population figures for mandatory and Turkish Palestine are of historical interest and figure in many historical debates. The Zionist claim that Palestine was "a land without a people" is challenged by pro-Palestinian historians who cite census figures showing a substantial Palestinian-Arab population by 1914…’

‘The goal of the present is to examine the claims in the light of the best available statistical data, without supporting the contentions of either side, and without any intention either to denigrate from the tragedy of Palestinian refugees or to use the data to question Jewish claims to Palestine…’

The major conclusion is "The nature of the data do not permit precise conclusions about the Arab population of Palestine in Ottoman and British times".

‘Anyone who pretends otherwise is deliberately misleading you. We can reach some general conclusions - Palestine was not empty when Zionists started arriving, there was some Arab immigration as well etc. But we cannot give a precise number in any case, and even if we could, it would not constitute evidence to back any moral claims.’

‘In studying the population of Palestine between 1800 and 1948, we must keep in mind that there was only one agreed-upon reliable census in all that time, which took place in 1931…’

‘Refugees - The UN figure for Palestinian Arab refugees that is most often quoted by pro-Arab sources is 726,000. This number was later revised downward to 711,000 by the UN, but almost nobody pays attention to the change. On the other hand, pro-Zionist sources like to quote a much lower figure that was contained in an interim report by Ralph Bunche. The 711,000 figure may be closest to the truth, but there is no real way of knowing.

Major Conclusions

1. The nature of the data do not permit precise conclusions about the Arab population of Palestine in Ottoman and British times, and the relative contributions of natural increase and immigration, imprecision in the counts and other issues.
2. Palestine was not an empty land when Zionist immigration began. The lowest estimates claim there were about 410,000 Arab Muslims and Christians in Palestine in 1893. A Zionist estimate claimed there were over 600,000 Arabs in Palestine in the 1890s. At this time, the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine was still negligible by all accounts. It is unlikely that Palestinian immigration prior to this period was due to Zionist development…
3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians…
4. Historic population data in Palestine during Ottoman times and during Mandatory times show significant discrepancies...
5. It is not possible to estimate illegal Arab immigration directly, but apparently there was some immigration. The total Arab immigration to Palestine recorded or estimated by the Mandate government was in the neighborhood of 45,000…
6. There are large discrepancies between official population figures and the number of Palestinian refugees - An analysis of population by subdistricts and villages, using the admittedly incomplete data of the Palestine Remembered Web site, shows that there were about 736,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs in the part of Palestine that was to become "Green Line Israel" in 1949…
7. There are serious discrepancies in reporting of the number of refugees. In 1949, UNRWA reported 726,000 refugees. By 1950 they reported 914,000 according to one source (McCarthy), an increase of 26% that could not come either from births or further displacement of refugees, which were negligible.
8. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority since about 1896, but probably not before. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was a Muslim majority. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns…’

September 29, 2007 10:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 29, 2007 10:29

UN181/194:

Holocaust and anti-semitism is no more than a black mail and extortion industry abused by jews themselves to further their intersts;the perished jews during ww11 are only a fraction of the tens of millions of Europeans and others who perished in that war-so why all the continued noise about the holocaust-unless jewish souls are more precious because they are "the choosen people."
Thou forced on America,both issues are not American issues and the jews should take their propaganda elsewhere.Enough American treasure and blood has been shed on behlaf of the jews and their facist jewish theocracy-israel.

Asbestos,
U smell like asbestos:it was some influential zionist jews that collaborated with the nazi's to create a panic amongest german jews so they can immigrate to Palestine;U lied about Amin Husainni who was protesting to Hitler the immigration of german jews to Palestine and had nothing to do with your god forsaken holocaust-we have enough of it.

Zionist terrorist gangs Haganah,Argun,Palmach and Shtern empolyed similar fear and terrror tactics to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians and force them to flee from their homes.

September 29, 2007 8:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 29, 2007 08:36

Bert:

What kind of world would it be if the United States was energy-independent? A better one, I think, and you wouldn't have either Bush nor the other guy...

September 29, 2007 6:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 29, 2007 06:12

Anonymous:

Lee Bolinger is a disgrace to Columbia, America and the human race:he is just radical zionist jews whose loyalty is unequivocally to the racist apartheid jewish theocracy,israel.Bolinger speoke for himself and jewish cousins but not for America.

September 28, 2007 9:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 21:28

Rick:

KCHSES said,

‘After WW I there was an agreement in the League of Nations to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish sections to satisfy both nationalities desires for an independent state. That it didn't occur was in large part due to British intransigence and reluctance to give up its administration of Palestine.’

Do you have a reference for this statement? It is contradicted by the following article in the Encyclopedia Britannica, which says that the Balfour Declaration was endorsed by the principal Allied powers and was included in the British mandate over Palestine, approved by the League of Nations on July 24, 1922.

The Balfour Declaration fell short of the expectations of the Zionists, who had asked for the reconstitution of Palestine as “the” Jewish national home and specifically stipulated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.”

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9011963/Balfour-Declaration

Balfour Declaration (Nov. 2, 1917), statement of British support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” It was made in a letter from Arthur James Balfour, the British foreign secretary, to Lionel Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of British Jewry.

The Balfour Declaration, issued through the continued efforts of Chaim Weizmann and Nahum Sokolow, Zionist leaders in London, fell short of the expectations of the Zionists, who had asked for the reconstitution of Palestine as “the” Jewish national home. The declaration specifically stipulated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” Nevertheless, it aroused enthusiastic hopes among Zionists and seemed the fulfillment of the aims of the World Zionist Organization.

The British government hoped that the declaration would rally Jewish opinion, especially in the United States, to the side of the Allies and that the settlement in Palestine of a pro-British Jewish population might help to protect the approaches to the Suez Canal in neighbouring Egypt.

The Balfour Declaration was endorsed by the principal Allied powers and was included in the British mandate over Palestine, approved by the League of Nations on July 24, 1922. In May 1939 the British government altered its policy in a white paper recommending a limit of 75,000 further immigrants and an end to immigration by 1944. Zionists condemned the new policy, accusing Britain of favouring the resident Palestinian Arabs of the region.

September 28, 2007 6:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 18:46

Robert James:

If one can look past the absurd statements made by Ahmadinejad and can recognize that his culture has different values to those of the West then we can deal with the issues that Bush insists must be resolved.

For instance, is Iran entitled to have its own nuclear energy program? How advanced is its alleged nuclear weapons program? If it did have nuclear weapons how would they be delivered? Would they outsmart western technology?

If one wants to presume that Iran should prove itself innocent of these allegations and that the accusers are inherently right then the accuser will always be right and the accused will always be wrong.

The US will always be able to justify whatever military course it has planned because its suspicions or paranoia or lies will be its evidence.

The US has done enough damage to the ME and the world. It seeks to impose its views on everyone. Ahmadinejad was right when he said that the US wants to manage the world. I for one do not want to hear from the US for a while because I think that it is dangerous. Its activities encourage terrorism and it wants to smash people into subservience. In the end, its indecency may lead us to WWIII. It should stop assuming that God is on its side and stop stirring up its opponents and then complaining that they resent the US.

September 28, 2007 5:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 17:46

paul reid:

First of all the position the president of Columbia University took was disgraceful.He invited Ahmadinejad to speak at the university and there was an understaning that he would respond to questions after his speech. During the introduction the president of Columbia acted as an inquisitor rather then a host. His position should have been to introduce Ahmadinejad and to act as a moderator. He chose to show an appalling degree of rudeness to an invited guest. Ahmadinejad kept his composure and handled him self gracefully in spite of being ambushed. To coin an old saw, he showed class. The same cannot be said for Columbia's president.
Every one expected a hostile resonse and line of questioning from the audience. What some of us did not expect was the atmosphere created by the opening remarks of Columbia's president. The man is the president of one of the foremost seats of intellectual persuit and knowledge in the United States and it certainly did not behoove him to assume the role of an inquisitor.

September 28, 2007 5:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 17:16

kchses:

The beleif that Israel was created because of the Holocaust is avery poor reading of history. After WW I there was an agreement in the League of Nations to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish sections to satisfy both nationalities desires for an independent state. That it didn't occur was in large part due to British intransigence and reluctance to give up its administration of Palestine. The agreement work out in the League of Nations was essentially implemented after WW II by the United Nations. Palestine was divided into seperate sections for Arabs and Jews. That it is now soley the state of Israel is of course the Arabs fault as they refused to honor the UN seperation and tried to destroy the Jewish state at inception. They lost. Badly. The story that somehow the world gave Palestine to the Jews to compensate for the Holocaust is not only bad history it is false. Arabs and Jews had competing claims to Palestine which the UN attempted to mediate as best they could. The Arabs decided to use force of arms to settle the issue and lost. Then they lost again in 1956. Then again in 1967. Then again in 1973. I should think by now the issue is over and decided by blood and not reason or compromise.

September 28, 2007 4:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 16:42

RODRIGO JARAMILLO V:

I spected to Mister Ahmedinejad by CNN at the University of Columbia.There were a courious theme there.The Rector insulted Ahmedinejad, and iranian president speak with respect and solicited respect.But the very rare theme was that all questions were abaout Isarel, Holocaust,
and other themes that war in Irak in the frontier of Iran.

Question for mister Ahmedinejad were desceptional and the israelí interest were priotity. US do not exist there.

September 28, 2007 2:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 14:55

pk:

While America's approach towards the rumblings in Iran is quite logical,it was inappropriate of Columbia Univ president to call the president of Iran ' a petty dictator'.By doing so he didn't distinguish himself from Ahmadinejad in decency.Moderators and hosts should maintain decorum.

September 28, 2007 1:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 28, 2007 13:27

Ousama:

I though the discussin held was ver interesting, to see two total opposite sides and their views. I had to add the pres of the university should have not introduced a president of a nation like that. It is very rude and shocking in my perspective, but the calm and relaxed answers from the irtanian president were amazing. Some of the answers he gave were not direct, but the main idea was noticed.

September 27, 2007 9:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 21:09

Rick:

Cayambe,

You say: ‘The technical answer is that all nuclear weapons must include an identifying forensic signature so that the source may be immediately held to account.’

I don’t know if that is technically feasible. Do you? It seems pretty far fetched to me. Even if it were technically feasible, I don’t think that it would be enforceable. I prefer to ban all nuclear weapons completely. I think that is a far more practical and enforceable solution.

As for protecting against insufferable bullies, like our Dear Leader and World Class Hypocrite, with overwhelming conventional weapons; I think that is a more manageable problem. For one thing, the Powell Doctrine of Overwhelming Force is dead. It cannot defeat the insurgent who swims in the sea of the people; as twice proven now in Vietnam and Iraq.

As for returning America to the Indians, that would be my preferred approach. Besides being just, they would be much better stewards of the environment, and we would all have a better quality of life. Unfortunately, no one has the motivation or the means to force us to do that.

That is not the case with Palestine.

September 27, 2007 6:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 18:46

lonewolf:

amen to the american right of free speech!! too bad that the president of columbia forgot his manners and the constitution while fimly planting his foot in his mouth. for this he should be removed from his post. also i would like to say to the israeli tourist who protested outside the u.n. that i am appalled each and everytime an israeli leader visits america. why? because it then becomes certain that billions of the dollars that rightfully belong to the american taxpayers will be on the next wire tranfer to yet another israeli financial institution to finance israel's war of ignorance and racism upon itself. why would an israeli be appalled by ahmadinejad coming to america? israel is well defended by its 150 or so "illegal" nuclear warheads. and since israel has never seen fit to follow international law, who should really be appalled? israel has made it's own bed to lie in, and that is why it's standing in the world is so low. as far as ahmadinejad speech (after watching it live) i was very impressed and have said before that he is far more courageous and intelligent than our own president. at the u.n. he for the most part spoke the truth. we never hear the truth from our leaders anymore!!

September 27, 2007 6:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 18:18

Rick:

Bruce,

I would place the Holocaust pretty high on the list of crimes of the twentieth century for which the perpetrator has been punished; e.g. Hitler.

This is a different category than the crimes where the perpetrators have yet to be punished; USA and Israel.

Note that the Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust, and should not be punished for it.

From: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) …….48 to 78,000,000.

Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1934-39)………….13,000,000 (the purges)

Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-45)…………12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII - 6,000,000 were Jews)

September 27, 2007 6:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 18:13

Cayambe:

Rick wrote:
“But what is to prevent nuclear weapons from being given clandestinely to an underground radical group?”

An excellent question, and one that demands an answer as the world is now arranged, and as I would have it rearranged. The technical answer is that all nuclear weapons must include an identifying forensic signature so that the source may be immediately held to account.

Through the UN I would imagine that you could get every member nation-state to agree that the OFFENSIVE use of nuclear weapons is the greatest crime against humanity. You might further get agreement that DEFENSIVE use will require, in all cases, either an actual invasion across a national border and/or an actual aerial attack on the nation. In other words, specious constructs such as pre-emptive self-defense have no place here. The sole acceptable use of nuclear weapons is in actual self-defense of a nation actually and physically attacked.

All nations that agree to the above secure for themselves the right to have nuclear weapons for self-defense subject to IAEA inspection for nuclear security and nuclear identity protocols. The manufacture of any nuclear weapon must include providing a forensic identifying signature within the nuclear materials that is registered with the IAEA. All countries possessing nuclear weapons are responsible for their use and will be held accountable for any misuse by anyone.

The offensive use of a nuclear weapon by any state will immediately enable (authorize) all other nations with nuclear arsenals to counterattack the offender with nuclear weapons.

This is a very sketchy outline of course, but it is one path towards creating an arrangement where it is in no nation’s interest to pass nuclear weapons on to stateless terrorists or to use nuclear weapons themselves, except in true self-defense.

In the long run the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is dead. Apart from various technical flaws, it is fundamentally unfair, as India in particular has pointed out time and time again.

We should remind ourselves that, as horrible as nuclear weapons are, the millions who have died in violent war deaths over the last 30 odd year have primarily been a consequence of conventional weapons, land mines, AK-47’s, M-16’s, machetes, artillery, cluster bombs, and so on. Without nuclear weapons I don’t think there is any doubt that this toll would have been much higher.

I’m afraid I must be on the omelet side of your debate. Your position would also drive us white and black folk to give America back to the Indians, no? That may be a just thing to do, but it is not going to happen. Having said that, I also think the Israelis need to get a grip on their own imperialist tendencies.

September 27, 2007 6:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 18:11

Syed:

It was a great opportunity to hear Mr Ahmedinejad speak at Columbia University, unfortunately the so called President of the University, introduced the President of Iran in such a poor light that he broke all protocols and insulted him before he heard him.
This is the magic and spell of Zionist propoganda and hold on American society and on the so called civilised intellectuals of USA.
Its a shame that US had already lost its respect by invading countries and bullying others for the sake of same group now they are losing on the academic ground for the same cause.
SHAME, SHAME SHAME TO USA and its hooligoons.
I am not an Iranian, nor an Arab, but a human with culture and respect, both of which USA does not know or understand.

Syed,

September 27, 2007 5:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 17:42

Syed:

It was a great opportunity to hear Mr Ahmedinejad speak at Columbia University, unfortunately the so called President of the University, introduced the President of Iran in such a poor light that he broke all protocols and insulted him before he heard him.
This is the magic and spell of Zionist propoganda and hold on American society and on the so called civilised intellectuals of USA.
Its a shame that US had already lost its respect by invading countries and bullying others for the sake of same group now they are losing on the academic ground for the same cause.
SHAME, SHAME SHAME TO USA and its hooligoons.
I am not an Iranian, nor an Arab, but a human with culture and respect, both of which USA does not know or understand.

Syed,

September 27, 2007 5:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 17:41

Chaotician:

I might add, that the President should resign or be forced out!

September 27, 2007 3:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 15:46

Chaotician:

It is encouraging to see a University resist the paranoia and wholesale abandonment of our basis and fundamental freedoms in some banal, hopeless fear that it is our freedoms that allows the danger and giving up those freedoms will provide safety. Such fears are not for free peoples who strive for world leadership, peace, justice, and understanding.

The deeply and unnecessary rudeness by the Columbia President provided a useful counterpoint to what was otherwise a valuable process.

My congratulations to the University!

September 27, 2007 3:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 15:43

Bruce:

Rick,

Where does the Holocaust fall in terms of crimes of the 20th century?

September 27, 2007 3:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 15:43

Rick:

AM,

You say: “restoring the land to its rightful owners is always admirable and desirable, but now you have a couple of generations of people to whom the land also rightfully belongs.”

I don’t agree with that. It is true in the sense that the ‘State of Israel’ was created by the UN partition of Palestine in 1947. But I believe that partition was a gross miscarriage of justice. Palestine was not the UN’s to give away. The British new that this act was unjust, having tried unsuccessfully to halt the illegal Jewish immigration, and abstained from the vote. The hundreds of proposed UN resolutions that attempted to redress the illegal and immoral behavior of the Israelis since then could not pass solely due to the USA veto. This situation should also be corrected. The UN should move to another host nation and develop a more just set of governing laws.

The bottom line is that the current Jewish residents of Israel are not the lawful owners of the land in the eyes of the rest of the world. This aggression shall not stand.

You say: ‘As for a nuclear holocaust, that can actually be prevented.’

Let’s hope so, but I doubt it.

The thoughtful remarks of Cayambe, Philo, CA-USA note the difficulty we will face in achieving peace and international law without nuclear weapons. Cayambe also notes that Iran and other Middle Eastern countries are sure to develop nuclear weapons, and of course Pakistan, North Korea, China, Russia and others already have them. Cayambe argues that Iran would never attack Israel with nuclear weapons, because this would insure Iran’s immediate destruction as well. But what is to prevent nuclear weapons from being given clandestinely to an underground radical group?

September 27, 2007 1:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 13:58

John J Rottersmann:

I just want to say that the Iran President is an intelligent man worth to discuss with .HE knows when he says the truth and when he says lies.
As far as I compare the two Presidents ,the one from Iran and ours ,they are the same kind of politicians and should be able to talk together for the Good of the World.

September 27, 2007 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 11:52

AMviennaVA:

Ombudsman: I do not believe that anyone said Ahmadinedjad is a great leader, nor have I seen anyone 'admire' him. But he has done something Busjh has not done in more than 10 years: face a crowd that was not sanitized.

As for a dialog: it is a way to determine whethere there is common ground; to create common ground; to expand the common ground. Afterall, if you have a dialog with those who agree with you, noone has gained anything. Instead you have the Bush/Cheney policy where problems only get worse, and compromise is you agreeing with whatever they say.

September 27, 2007 8:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 08:42

AMviennaVA:

Rick: 'restoring the land to its rightful owners' is always admirable and desirable, but y now you have a couple of generations of people to whom the land also rightfully belongs. Unfortunately, although we can make omelette out of eggs, we cannot make eggs out of omelette.

As for a nuclear holocaust, that can actually be prevented.

September 27, 2007 8:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 08:36

Darden Cavalcade:

Excellent essay from an eye witness. And a damnsite more informative than we got elswhere. Idealistic, of course, but time will cure that. Thank you, Vivian.

September 27, 2007 8:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 08:23

Cayambe, Philo, CA-USA:

Mi Querida Vivian,

Lovely as ever I see. Had I but known the fountain of youth was to be found in a photograph and not in the mirror, I might well have skipped years of disillusionment and disappointment.

I must complement you on your military/democracy piece. In my humble opinion it is the best one you have done so far, to include the current one on Provocation. It also elicited some worthy responses, which is often an accurate measure of quality.

I am somewhat disappointed with your analysis of the Columbia event, such as it was. Free speech is not at issue here. The Constitution only restricts “THE GOVERNMENT” from infringing on the right to speak. NGO’s such as Columbia are under no constitutional obligation to provide speech platforms to all comers; not that I disagree with their decision to invite the Iranian President to speak. On the contrary, I found it commendable that by this invitation they provided the students and the public with an opportunity to hear the Iranian point of view raw, without the usual spin of various well-organized groups. For examples, just read your favorite columnists yesterday and today.

As an American, I was thoroughly embarrassed by the “welcome” speech given by Columbia’s President. It was an appalling display of unnecessary rudeness, bad taste, and uncivilized behavior. We may ignore this, but the world does not. Iran, and not a few other nations, has culture measured in millennia. We can at best claim 300-400 years and it ours was displayed at its worst at Columbia.

I would have suggested that your article actually reflect the words of its title, i.e. “Provokes Important Discussions”. Instead, it was something of a mushy attempt to find the optimist’s view of the day, assuaging offended emotions on all sides equally.

Asbestos wrote: “Oh, really? Name two.”

I admit that the Columbia appearance, 60 Minutes piece, and Charley Rose interview are all intertwined in my memory since only caught snatches of each occasion. But I will try.
1. His questioning of our authority (USA) to dictate to Iran and other sovereign nations who may and who may not have nuclear weapons. Do we assert that we alone are judge and jury on this particular question? God appointed us perhaps? Or, as someone put it, is it because we have the “cards”, i.e. the power? Do we assert simply that “might makes right”? In exercising such arbitrary power, how in the world do we avoid being “Imperialist”? Seriously, if this is not imperialism, what is? Inquiring minds want to know, especially in a bastion of disciplined intellectual inquiry such as Columbia.
2. How do we, of all nations, find the gall to lecture Iran on “human rights”? It is beyond question that we physically torture, humiliate, and degrade prisoners as a matter of official policy. Look no further than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. We kidnap people, guilty or innocent, from any point on the globe that we choose and salt them away in secret prisons with no recourse to any person or process. All of this is done at the sole whim of the President of the United States.

There is much more of course. He asks why we insist on democracy in this world, but then destabilize the democratically elected governments. Hamas is an example. The President of Iran is also an example. He was in fact elected to his position democratically and fairly, directly by the people of Iran. He is in no way a “dictator”. Not even the President of the US is directly elected by the people, but rather by electors in the Electoral College. He challenges our view of Iran as a threat to world security. Indeed, he makes the factual case that Iran has yet to attack or invade any of its neighbors or countries not neighbors, whereas we have attacked and/or invaded well over a dozen countries since WWII; most recently two of Iran’s neighbors, Iraq and Afghanistan. Is not the US the world’s greatest threat, demonstrably so? He challenges our characterization of Iran as a “terrorist” nation because we assert that Iran is supplying sophisticated roadside bombs and other weaponry to Iraq. He reminds us of the weaponry and intelligence we supplied to Saddam Hussein during his attempt to invade Iran. He reminds us that Saddam’s Iraq was truly a terrorist nation using chemical weapons against Iran and his own people with the knowledge and support of the United States. He points out what we supplied to the Afghan “Freedom Fighters” in the 80’s, the Contras in the 80’s. Nor does it end there. Aren’t Lebanese civilians regularly killed by US cluster bombs recently scattered all over Southern Lebanon? This is not terrorism, but attacking the occupation military forces in Iraq is? Surely you jest. Etc., Etc.

Dylan McArthur:
I agree with you.

David L. Wylie:
Yes, his comments regarding gays were in fact absurd. I have no doubt that proportion of the Iranian population which is gay does not differ materially from what we find around the world. Whether they are publicly gay is entirely a different matter. In this regard however, we should not be too proud of ourselves as it is really only over the last 30-40 odd years that we have found a partial measure of enlightenment.

With respect to their use of the death penalty for offenses we don’t find offensive, such as adultery, blasphemy, thievery we might find petty, etc., etc., we had best be conscious of our own use of this penalty. It is, after all, only recently that we have given up on executing children. We continue to execute people of at best marginal intelligence. There is no doubt that our judicial system has a bias towards executing blacks disproportionately, for a variety of systemic reasons. The Europeans, having dispensed with this penalty as “barbaric”, now consider us as barbarous as we consider the Afghans or Iranians. At least we have never drawn and quartered people or burned them at the stake (except for witches).

Personally I have nothing against our use of the death penalty in principle. It is the uncertain and biased application, or misapplication, of it that is intolerable. At the very least, the application of the death penalty should require a conviction beyond ALL doubt.

dano:
Point well made.

Harrison Picot wrote: "Can we have peace and international law without atomic weapons?"

No doubt about it. That is a superb question. I suggest you submit it as one that should be posed to the PostGlobal panelists.

I must, however, answer for myself in the negative. If you remove atomic weapons, then we are left with conventional weapons to express national power. These are much more easily used, with lower risks, than is the case with atomic weapons. Give the President of Iran some credit for pointing out that on a pragmatic level, nuclear weapons are, for all intents and purposes, useless as an offensive tool. What Iranian would be so foolish as to launch a nuclear tipped missile at Israel knowing that the immediate response would be the total destruction of Iran by far larger and more secure nuclear arsenals. Does that mean that I don’t believe Iran intends to develop nuclear weapons? Of course not; it is imperative for their own self-defense to do just that. To the south and west they are bound by Sunni Arabs, and Iranians are Persians not Arabs. To the north and west they face the Sunni Afghans and Pakistanis, the latter already armed with nuclear weapons. The bulk of US military combat forces are arrayed in bordering Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel has a nuclear arsenal and a history of taking pre-emptive action against neighbors. Russia lies just over the horizon and has a vast nuclear arsenal. Finally there is the little matter of the 198x war with Iraq which cost the Iranians dearly in terms of lives lost and treasure. No, the inconvenient truth here is that there are few countries, if any, with a stronger case for developing a nuclear weapon defense.

It is perhaps instructive to consider Pakistan in this light. The logistics, training, and command centers of Al Qaeda have migrated from Afghanistan to Pakistan. We, and the Europeans, are most directly threatened by the large nest of terrorists now in place in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan, not in Iraq, and not in Iran. In Pakistan they are in fact indirectly sheltered by Pakistan’s nuclear capability. We can attack them in Iraq, we can attack them in Afghanistan, and, if absolutely necessary, we could even attack them in Iran. But we cannot, for a minute, contemplate sending army brigades in to attack in Pakistan in the face of the Pakistani nuclear arsenal. The lesson for the world is that it takes nuclear weapons to deter the aggressive conventional forces of the United States. In his own way, President Bush has been simply shooting himself (and the nation) in the foot.

No, Harrison. I do not believe that we can rid the world of nuclear weapons. On the other hand, I do believe that the doctrines of Mutually Assured Destruction and Assured Destruction could well be formalized to eliminate them entirely as offensive weapons. We would however, have to get a grip on our own imperialist tendencies to make that work.

Ronita Brown:

I agree with you. Very well put.

Anonymous:

I agree with much of your post to Chou, including the dry humor. You are quite right that none of them are trustworthy in the traditional sense. What you can trust is that they will each say whatever advances their goals, not the ones they claim, but the ones they have. It has become a worldwide sales game in the global village.

September 27, 2007 4:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 27, 2007 04:14

Chamabro:

Asbestos: You are rational,make good sense,and clearly make a point, without emotion. I enjoy your posts. Rick likes to stir pots ; he wants to cause grief. One half ,or more of his stuff is false and just plain sucks.We have all bumped into Rick before on other boards. Just take him with a grain of salt: Kosher of course.

September 26, 2007 11:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 23:35

Ombudsman:

These view sicken me.

Look. I'm not a fan of the current administration, but it's leap to go from saying that Bush is a Bad President to conclude that Ahmedinejad is some sort of great leader.

I'll give you this... the man has balls to spit out lie after lie and then smile. And it's the smile of a con man.

When such a person denies the holocaust, when such person claims there are no gay people in Iran, when such a person claims that reporters he had put to death simply don't exist, then you realize you cannot have a dialog.

A dialog implies a common ground or understanding. Ahmedinejad's only purpose in giving this speech was not to have a "dialog", but to convince people who refuse to call him out in his lies.

I want to know why you think this guy is anything but evil? He oozes evil at every word, and you admire him. I'm reminded of the phrase "Useful Idiot". You're a smart girl. I think you know what that means.

September 26, 2007 10:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 22:26

Rick:

AM,

It would not be repeating the same mistake in reverse. It would just be restoring the land to its rightful owners, whose families had tended their flocks and orchards and farmed the land for millennia.

Your approach ensures a nuclear holocaust.

September 26, 2007 8:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 20:07

AMviennaVA:

Asbestos & Rick: Where to put the Jews? In many ways I agree with Rick, if this was the 40's. (Actually my first choice would be southern Germany & Western Austria - poetic justice and all that). Second choice would be somewhere in the US (putting our money where our mouth is).

This being 2007, I agree with Asbestos. Affterall, we cannot simply repeat the mistake in reverse. With the caveat and understanding that the Palestinians are human beings and must have the same rights and priviledges as the Israelis.

Asbestos: On your response to me: I believe that our disagreement is too minor to continue. Continuing will only exaggerate the differences.

September 26, 2007 7:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 19:53

Rick:

Ah yes, the classical defense, if you can’t argue your case rationally based on logic and reasoning, then resort to childish name calling.

…it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine…

Is that what you call it? Who would have thought that steeling someone’s land, slaughtering or driving into refugee camps countless thousands of civilians, mostly women and children, would not comprise the rights of the native population.

At least Texas is ours to give. Palestine most definitely was not.

September 26, 2007 7:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 19:25

Asbestos:

The classic defense of the outed anti-Semite -- "Some of my best friends are Jewish". Oh, and it's the Jews fault that we invaded Iraq. Bah. You're a bigot. And if you're serious about moving 6 million Israeli Jews to Texas, you're a delusional bigot, to boot. But I suspect you're not. You just think that "move 'em to Texas" sounds better than "drown 'em off of the beach in Tel Aviv".

One of the lovely ironies is that one of the slogans of European anti-Semites before the war was "Jews go to Palestine". Now the anti-Semites want them to leave Palestine for Texas (Rick) or Europe again (Ahmadinejad). But of course, no one's going anywhere, Jew or Arab. Living together or war are the only alternatives. I much prefer living together.

Again, anti-Semites usually out themselves. To Rick, the British Balfour Declaration of 1917 is the "crime of the century" -- a greater crime than the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, the Rape of Nanking, the Rwandan Genocide, or the Stalinist Purges. Here's the text. Decide for yourself.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".

September 26, 2007 7:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 19:05

Rick:

Thanks AM for the moral support.

I don’t think that I’m anti-Semitic either. My best friend is a secular Jew. He is one of the most humble people that you would ever want to meet and doesn’t have a religious bone in his body. His mother is living in Tel Aviv where he grew up. He is a strong advocate of the illegal and immoral invasions and occupations of Palestine and Iraq, so we disagree on those issues.

I believe that they are related. I regret that the Jewish lobby: the neocons like Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle and Kristol have so much influence and control over our government; that they could dupe our Dear Leader and World Class Hypocrite into such a terrible mistake as the illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq. This is the third most serious crime of the past 100 years; the Balfour Declaration (1917) being the first, and the UN partition of Palestine (1947) being the second.

Imagine if the trillion dollars squandered on invading and occupying Palestine and Iraq had instead been spent on infrastructure, conservation and alternate energy sources. How much better off would be our economy as well as our national security. Wake up people; we must break our dependence on Middle East oil. This is the second root cause of the disastrous misadventure in Iraq, the first being the influence of the Jewish lobby who feared and loathed Saddam.

As for the reference to the ‘obnoxious’ Jews, those are the words of Asbestos, not mine. The idea that the Zionist Jews feel that they are The Chosen People of God and Palestine is their Promised Land is nothing new. I never said that all Jew’s feel like that, but unfortunately, the most extreme nut jobs seem to get the most attention, have the most influence and give the rest the bad name and stereotype.

I too agree with the comments of both you and Asbestos relative to the disgust at being relegated to ‘burn in everlasting hell’ by the self righteous religious hypocrites, be they Jew, Christian or Muslim. I am secular Atheist/Agnostic and have no axe to grind in that regard.

I must disagree with you that we must find a way for Palestinian and Jew to coexist. That is absolutely impossible. Since the Israelis already have hundreds of nuclear weapons, and Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria are soon to follow; a nuclear holocaust is unavoidable unless we declare a no-fly zone over the region, disarm the Israelis, and relocate them to Texas - and soon. There is no time to waste.

September 26, 2007 6:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 18:22

Asbestos:

Amviennava -- First you said that the concept of a greater Israel "from the Nile to the Euphrates" was "taught to this day in Israel", implying that it was widely taught and generally accepted. Now you qualify your statement -- you say it's taught in Israeli religious schools. How many? Does anyone outside of a few deluded nutjobs really believe it? I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere advocates it -- there is someone who will believe anything in this great wide world of ours (enjoy this website: http://theflatearthsociety.org/), but your implication was that the concept of a greater Israel "from the Nile to the Euphrates" was mainstream, common thinking in Israel. It isn't, not by a long chalk. And while it is true that a slightly larger fringe group, the settler religious right, uses religion as a justification to claim the West Bank, they don't run the country -- as you say, most Israelis reject the idea that God sets borders. That's why the settlers were kicked out of Gaza by the Israeli government. By contrast, Hamas runs Gaza now, and they think that God commands them to drive the Jews into the Med.

Actually, partitions work quite well -- see the former Yugoslavia. And while the partition of India and Pakistan was excruciatingly painful, I haven't heard anyone argue that the alternative would have been better.

On the idea that accusations of anti-Semitism "end the discussion" -- they clearly don't. In fact, many critics of Israel seem to wear those accusations as a badge of pride. And the rhetoric on the other side gets pretty heated, too -- especially since many leftist critics of Israel seem to regard calling someone an imperialist oppressor to be worse than calling him an anti-Semite.

You say that you mentioned Turkey to show that there is hypocrisy in the world. Most of us figure out that there is hypocrisy in the world at a pretty young age -- we don't need a reminder. But you expressly mentioned Israel's friendship with Turkey, as if it were somehow more culpable than any other country's friendship with Turkey. Unless you have been picketing the French embassy or NATO headquarters lately, I don't think that it's fair to single out Israel for criticism for adopting a realpolitik foreign policy -- after all, that's what many American opponents of Israel want the U.S. to do.

September 26, 2007 5:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 17:49

Sacandaga:

Dr. Bollinger's mother, if she is still alive, must be very embarrassed today. Her son may be a celebrated global expert on free speech principles and laws, but he apparently knows very little about about manners and basic human decency.

I'm certain she did her best to teach her son that a guest invited into one's home deserves to be treated with respect and hospitality, no matter how great one's differences with the guest.

On behalf of all American mothers, I apologize to you, President Amadinejad, and to all Iranians who were offended by Dr. Bollinger's boorish behavior toward your President.

If you ever return to the United States, Mr. Amadinejad, I would welcome your visit to my home. While we may have some very spirited discussions, I can assure you that you will be greeted warmly, accommodated in every way possible during your stay, and sent away with my thanks for your visit and best wishes for safe travel home.

Evelyn Gallagher

September 26, 2007 4:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 16:32

AMviennaVA:

Asbestos: Thank you for your response. About a few of the points you raised:

1. Eretz Yizrael (Greater Israel) - Taught in religious schools in Israel. It is not anti-Israeli propaganda. By the way, I did not say that it is an accepted concept by most Jews or Israelis - obvioulsy I will not say 'many' because that begs the question of how many is 'many' ;)

2. Yes, I believe that most Israelis, as well as almost all Jews I know in the States favor ending the occupation of the West Bank, and normalizing relationships with a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza. The problem is the policies that the Israeli government follows, and our slavish acceptance of them. (Actually, in many ways I favor a 1 state solution - partitions don't work too well; then again sometimes droups need to be kept apart).

3. Is the 'Jewish presence illegitimate'? In the '40's I would have said yes. Now, the 'solution' would be creating the same problem in reverse. Afterall, most Israelis today were not ever around 60 years ago. At the same time, the Palestinians have the same rights; and they were made to pay (and are still paying) for US and European mistakes.

4. Chosen people/Promised land - You must have missed the numerous posts. Not to mention those that insist on references to Judea and Samaria (these tend to forget that the Samaritans were hated by the Jews of that era - hence the parable of the 'Good Samaritan'). These two terms are used repeatedly by Jews and Israelis to justify anything Israel does. I can understand thinking of God as a real estate Developer - but I reject the concept of land grants. They led to great injustices here in the US, because the extermination of the locals is a necesity (the Old Testament is filled with passages that today would be called genocide). So, if people do not like the reception those two terms receive and the reactions they cause, they should stop using them. Again, I do not claim that most Jews or Israelis maintain those ideas, but there seem to be those who like to emphasize them (I went to lengths to avoid using 'many' here).

5. Paradise is a concept developed in the later years (that is around the Roman times). Let's save it for a different discussion, as I take great exception to the way many self-labelled Christians as well as fanatical Muslims present it. (BTW, I like the line about burning and no skin off your nose).

6. I mentioned Turkey as an example of the hypocricy that permeates some topics. Genocide is wrong. But it is fashionable to condemn some occurrences and look the other way at others. For example, what the Germans did and what happened in Darfur is wrong; but what the Turks did and what is happening in the Congo require 'pragmatism'. (By way of scale, about 200K people have killed in Darfur but 4 million in the Congo). I am expected to be ready to declare war on Iran for what Ahmadinedjad said about the Holocaust by the Germans. But these same people tell me that it is not 'practical' to force Turkey to aqcknowledge the same acts. Afterall 'it is a member of NATO'. SO WHAT!!!!

7. To be sure there are many anti-semites. That includes those who turn on Jews for being Jews, as well as those who turn on Arabs (or rag tops or towel heads) for being Arabs. The latter category ironically includes some Jews. Both varieties are detestable.

I take exception when you post "In any event, criticism of Israel does not seem to be seriously inhibited by cries of anti-Semitism." It is. The accusation is very swiftly thrown out; the result is to end the discussion. By the way, the religious right-wing in the US is very quick to use is as well. My observation is that the perpetrators are extremist Jews and the variety of Christian that was chracterised by anti-semitism. (BTW, I do enjoy Cohen's columns as well, because he apparently does not feel that he must write as a member of a group).

By the way, I enjoy these discussions. I only wish that Tom Wonnacott would also join.

September 26, 2007 4:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 16:04

Asbestos:

Amviennava -- You seem to be a victim of anti-Israeli propaganda. First, far from advocating or teaching a "greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates" (where on Earth did you get that one?), most Israeli Jews (as well as Israeli Arabs) favor ending the occupation of the West Bank, and normalizing relationships with a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza. The question is how to get there, and the not unreasonable suspicion that there are those (like Rick, apparently) who do not want to see a Jewish state co-existing with a Palestinian state, but who consider any Jewish presence in the Holy Land to be illegitimate (Rick is apparently a member of the Canaanite Liberation Organization, dedicated to righting the terrible wrong that took place when the Jews conquered Jericho after the Exodus from Egypt). But your statement about "greater Israel" just isn't true. Again, why do you think it is?

Next -- "Jews think that they are the chosen people". Never has a single religious doctrine been so twisted by bigots. The expression refers to the Jewish belief that the Jews were chosen to receive divine doctrine -- the Torah -- at Sinai, and to share it with the rest of the world. It doesn't confer any special rights or privileges vis a vis other people. And if Jews ever believed that God liked them best, the last 2000 years or so of history disabused them of that notion. Nor do Jews believe that only they get a ticket to Paradise after death -- that, I believe, is Christian and Muslim doctrine, instead. Why doesn't anyone find that offensive -- that certain religions believe that they, and only they, are chosen to spend eternity eating grapes in air conditioned comfort, while the unbelievers drown in a fiery lake? (for the record, I don't -- believe what you want about the great beyond -- no skin off my nose).

Finally, you mention Turkey and the Armenian genocide. Yes, this was one of the great crimes of the century, and no, Turkey has not acknowledged it, the way Germany has acknowledged its guilt in the Holocaust. But Israel is far from the only country with close relations with Turkey -- its a member of NATO, for Pete's sake. Why Israel should be criticized for being close to Turkey when France (for instance)is not (and France is the number one foreign investor in Turkey, with about $5.6 billion invested from 1980-2000), is a mystery to me, unless it is a function of Israel having more enemies than France.

One more finally -- the idea that no one can criticize Israel without being called an anti-Semite. One reason that some critics of Israel get called anti-Semitic is that some of them are. Like Rick, with his "the obnoxious Jews deserve what they got" crap. You don't think that's anti-Semitic? Why not? In any event, criticism of Israel does not seem to be seriously inhibited by cries of anti-Semitism. And most defenders of Israel, not just me, are quick to acknowledge that criticism of Israel need not be anti-Semitic -- I seem to remember Richard Cohen defending Walt and Mearsheimer from charges of anti-Semitism in his column in the Post not too long ago. In fact, it's become a ritual -- if you want to defend Israel, you first have to acknowledge that criticism of Israel isn't necessarily anti-Semitic. Bah. I'm through with the ritual. Rick is a critic of Israel, and it is apparent from his posts that he is also an anti-Semite -- he doesn't like Jews.

September 26, 2007 2:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 14:58

Hank:

By allowing Mr. Amadinejad to speak, Columbia has created a moment that true americans can be proud of. I have to say however that the introduction was disgracful and an embarrasment. It was like a kid inviting a girl to come and play with him and his friends and then punching her when she showed up to prove to his friends that he really doesn't like girls. Otherwise it was a shining example of one of the principles that makes america great, freedom of speech. There were many that said that he should have never been given the forum or the chance to speak, simply because they did not agree with what he might say. How can we as a nation advocate basic human rights, and berate others for not granting them, if we would deny someone, anyone, the right to exercise them here. I for one am proud of Columbia for proving to the world that freedom and democracy are not dead in america, even though they have taken quite a beating under the present administration. They may wish to consider someone a little more civil as their president however.

September 26, 2007 2:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 14:27

Anonymous:

By allowing Mr. Amadinejad to speak, Columbia has created a moment that true americans can be proud of. I have to say however that the introduction was disgracful and an embarrasment. It was like a kid inviting a girl to come and play with him and his friends and then punching her when she showed up to prove to his friends that he really doesn't like girls. Otherwise it was a shining example of one of the principles that makes america great, freedom of speech. There were many that said that he should have never been given the forum or the chance to speak, simply because they did not agree with what he might say. How can we as a nation advocate basic human rights, and berate others for not granting them, if we would deny someone, anyone, the right to exercise them here. I for one am proud of Columbia for proving to the world that freedom and democracy are not dead in america, even though they have taken quite a beating under the present administration. They may wish to consider someone a little more civil as their president however.

September 26, 2007 2:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 14:03

AMviennaVA:

Asbestos: Thank you for recognizing that criticizing Israel is not the same as anti-semitism. However I take exception to your comment about Rick. Cosider all the statements about: 'the chosen people'; 'Greater Israel' taught to this day in Israel (advocates that Israel really goes from the Nile to the Euphrates); the emphasis on Ahmadinedjad's statements about Israel being the primary complaint (although apparently based on a false translation); demand that any action by Israel is correct whereas the same action by ANY OTHER country is immoral; the duplicity by those who lament what Ahmadinedjad said about the Holocaust by the same people who are too 'pragmatic' to condemn Turkey's genocide against her Christian population; for that matter Israel's close relations with Turkey (I seem to recall reading that Hitler asked 'who remembers the Armenians').

We are ALL human beings (even the Palestinians), and an action is WRONG regardless of the victim and the perpetrator. Unfortunately, in the case of Israel we are all supposed to keep quiet. Otherwise of course we are anti-semitic or whatever nonsense the name-callers want to throw out. However, the fact is that and action is wrong regardless of the victim and the perpetrator.

September 26, 2007 12:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 12:55

Asbestos:

Many critics of Israel's policies (me, for instance) are not anti-semitic. And even some people who question whether it was a good idea to establish a Jewish state in part of British Palestine in 1948 (not me)are not anti-semitic. But some are, and if you let them talk long enough, they generally expose themselves.

Rick's explanation for the expulsion of the Jews from their ancestral home by the Romans -- it's their own fault. They had bad attitudes. They couldn't get along. They thought they were special (Oh, no -- a religion that believes that its adherents have a special relationship with God -- like the world hasn't seen that before and since). Those pushy, pushy Jews. And presumably, they deserve everything that's happened to them since. What a load of crap.

This is one of the reasons why its very difficult for people of good will to have rational discussions about Israel and the Palestinians. Bigots on both sides (like you, Rick) tend to hijack the dialog, and many people fear that taking less than maximalist positions on either side will give them comfort and encouragement.

September 26, 2007 12:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 12:20

David:

I think Ahmadinejad's speech was informative and hopefully insight-jarring for a different reason: Sometimes when we see the double-talk and spoken hypocrisy of someone whom we intensely dislike, we subconsciously become less comfortable when we unwittingly utter the same double-talk.

Who else is boasting the virtues of freedom and claiming that his country is a fountain of it -- all while stripping as many individual rights and immunities as possible?

Our own Ahmadinejad, George W. Bush and his "base."

Compare and contrast Ahmadinejad with our own here:
http://churchstatewall.typepad.com/the_church_state_wall/2007/09/iranian-preside.html

I hope that one benefit arising from Ahmadinejad's visit will be to see a bit of ourselves in the mirror -- because when we see a bit of ourselves reflected in a face that we despise, we might feel a bit more inspired to be a bit less like it.

September 26, 2007 12:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 12:03

DALERGR:

IF THE PRESIDENT OF IRAN IS NOT THE POLICY MAKER FOR HIS COUNTRY THEN HE IS AT THE LEAST THE CONDUIT FOR THE POLICY MAKER.IF LEE BOLLINGER WANTED DIVERSITY OR OPEN DISCUSSION AT COLUMBIA WHY DID HE REMOVE THE ROTC FROM CAMPUS SEEMS LIKE A HYPOCRITE TO ME.DID AHMEDINEJAD SAY ONE THING IN PERSON THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT HE HAS BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG. THE ANSWER IS NO. SO THE QUESTION IS WHY INVITE SOME ONE YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT HE IS GOING TO SAY.IF THIS IS THE MAIN EXAMPLE THAT VIVIAN SALAMA USES TO REPORT SOMRTHING ABSURB FROM AHMEDINEJAD THEN SHE JUST WASNT LISTENING TO HIM AND HERE IS HER QUOTE "responding to questions with counter-questions. Some of his comments – namely his remark that there are no homosexuals in Iran – were flat out absurd".

September 26, 2007 10:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 10:33

John Peters:

I think Ahmedinejad was clear winner in the battle of nerves at Columbia University

Bollinger introduced the Iranian President as a petty dictator.

Mr Ahmadinejad replied to Bollinger indirectly and in a better way than anyone could expect him to do:

"At the outset I want to complain a bit from the person who read this political statement against me. In Iran tradition requires that when we demand a person to invite to be a speaker we actually respect our students and the professors by allowing them to make their own judgment and we don't think it's necessary before this speech is even given to come in with a series of claims and to attempt in a so-called manner to provide vaccination of some sort to our students and our faculty."

Ahmedinejad then ridiculed Bollinger saying, “I think the text read by the dear gentleman here, more than addressing me, was an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here. In a university environment we must allow people to speak their mind, to allow everyone to talk so that the truth is eventually revealed by all”.

Israel had worked fervently to prevent what happened on the podium Monday, and lost:

Iran was not against the world. It wasIran versus Israel.

Ahmadinejad blasted Israel, and against questioned Holocaust. If he managed to convince one person of his views on Israel and Zionism.

The protesters outside only served to reinforce his claims. They were maily Jews wearing skullcaps who carried signs protesting his Holocaust denial and calls to wipe Israel off the map. This shows to most people that Iran is only a problem for Israel, or at most for the Jews.

Ahmadinejad did not lose his nerve, he did not behave like a rabble rouser and certainly looked a lot dignified while responding than the guys who had invited him.

Iranian President offered a thorough explanation of his Holocaust denial. He said that all he wanted was to promote research in the field.

How could an enlightened university that supports freedom of expression oppose that?

Mr Ahmedinejad seemed the clear winner in battle of nerves at Columbia University.

September 26, 2007 7:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 07:35

Rick:

Charles Arube,

What’s the matter with you buddy? Do you have a fever? You make very good sense. Such wisdom is exceedingly rare on these boards.

September 26, 2007 5:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 05:41

Charles Arube:

As for France, Germany and most of Europe: history speaks for itself. We can not forget the horrors and what hapenned during the 1st and 2nd World Wars; let's not! And that was just a few years ago.

Why does the US and the Europeans continue keeping such enormous stock piles of nucleur, chemical and biological weapons? And who knows what other secret weapons? They know, there will be another big war and they will certainly use these weapons. When oil runs out, when food becomes scarce, surely and certainly they will use these weapons. Who knows who next will be enslaved (like the millions of Africans before) or exterminated (like the indegenous native 'Americans' and the Australian aborigines). America and Europe take care of themselves and their own, at whatever costs. Why should others not do the same?

Why can't the US and Europe become examplary and disarm themselves of these terrible weapons? Why allow Israel to have such weapons and not others in the region?

September 26, 2007 4:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 04:41

Charles Arube:

Look around you: who has caused and is still causing more misery and deaths around the world? The US or Iran?

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the supporting of apartheid South Africa and such dictators like Mobutu of the former Zaire; continued supporting of Israel. Add to that: the main contributer to global warming and usage of biofuels (making food scarce and more people hungry) - ask yourselves: who caused these? And what for?

September 26, 2007 4:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 26, 2007 04:24

Martin Woolsey:

For the record, Ahmadinejad isn't Arab.

Americans, including Lee Bollinger, would be a lot better off if they understood the Iranian political system before assigning blame for dictatorial tendencies. The real dictator is back home drinking tea while Ahmadinejad takes the heat.

September 25, 2007 9:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 21:47

Martin Woolsey:

For the record, Ahmadinejad isn't Arab.

Americans, including Lee Bollinger, would be a lot better off if they understood the Iranian political system before assigning blame for dictatorial tendencies. The real dictator is back home drinking tea while Ahmadinejad takes the heat.

September 25, 2007 9:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 21:46

Rick:

Asbestos,

You say that there were already 500,000 Jews in Palestine at the end of WWII.

Yes, but there should not have been. The British Balfour Declaration of 1917 acted as a catalyst to speed the Jewish immigration to Palestine.

From Wikipedia ‘The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated November 2, 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government on the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire in the aftermath of the World War I.

The letter stated the position, agreed at a British Cabinet meeting on October 31, 1917, that the British government supported Zionist plans for a Jewish "national home" in Palestine, with the condition that nothing should be done which might prejudice the rights of existing communities there.

So the result was the forceful injection of the Zionist Jews, who had been expelled from the region 2000 years ago because they could not coexist in peace with the native population. They had invaded and occupied this region following their great escape from slavery in Egypt. They had a Holier than Thou attitude, and claimed to be God’s chosen people.

Who would have thought that such a Zionist immigration could ever satisfy: ‘the condition that nothing should be done which might prejudice the rights of existing communities’ of Palestine as required by the Balfour Declaration?

The British soon recognized the folly of this policy and attempted to halt the Zionist immigration. They were attacked by a group named Irgun (some call it Etzel), established by the violent right-wing of the Zionist Movement in Palestine. The most well-known of these attacks was the King David Hotel bombing which occurred on July 22, 1946, killing hundreds of British as well as Palestinians. This was a well-planned act engineered by the Irgun's Leader and future Prime Minster, Menachem Begin.

So the Balfour Declaration, and resulting Zionist immigration, was a terrible mistake. The British tried and failed to reverse this terrible decision.

Repercussions of this heinous crime are behind all turmoil and bloodshed in the Middle East including Iraq, Lebanon, Palestinian occupied territories, Syria, Iran etc.

The whole world will never see peace as long as the crime of the 20th century is not corrected.

September 25, 2007 7:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 19:40

David:

It would have been nice if the Iranian president would have answered one question. I felt like I was in church, but instead of a Southern Baptist one a Southern Islam sermon. I kept waiting for the lighting to strike.

September 25, 2007 4:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 16:14

Swissmiss:

The above comment: "I'm not proud that we come off as arrogant, mannerless brats in hobnail boots" said so much. Without wishing to enter into the whole saga of the Middle East and even less into that of the holocaust, just imagine what the world and the Middle East in particular think about America's treatment of its own native inhabitants at the beginning of the last century! One doesn't become emotional when watching or listening to President Ahmedinejad at any time but he represents people, many highly intelligent academics, who chose a route very different from that of the west and of the USA, in particular, where national diversity is sometimes seen as alarming and is certainly grossly misunderstood by the ignorant. He delivered a message - a disguised but very carefully worded specific message - it was there, missed by some, ignored and censored by the media but, thankfully, many of you have recognised it. He is no Trojan horse,thinks differently from his predecessors, is an academic not a warmonger. To establish change - positive change - in a questionable regime or even "democracy", one can overthrow a dictator/leader or attempt to deftly alter the flow of things,treading carefully but surely - almost imperceptibly in a direction we should applaud. The appalling words of the CU President - the host - were possibly/probably delivered to save his own skin in view of the powerful lobbies operating on Capital Hill which, doubtless, threatend him and/or his position. President A. did say at least twice: the USA and Iran could be friends. Give Iran a chance. I speak as a person whose friend (CIA) was executed in front of a firing squad in Teheran on December 16 1980.

September 25, 2007 4:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 16:12

Asbestos:

Pinto -- You are right that the CIA helped overthrow Iran's government in 1953, and that it supported Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war. But Ahmedinejad didn't talk about those things.

Rick -- First, while the Holocaust may have been the catalyst for the formation of Israel, it's not as if the remnants of the butchered European Jewish people were imposed on a Judenfrei Palestine after the war. There were about 500,000 Jews in British Palestine during the war. Also, many of the Arab residents of British Palestine were recent immigrants, drawn by an economy that offered a substantially higher standard of living than was available in most other parts of the Arab world. So Ahmedinejad (and your) argument that Israel is penance for European sins imposed on Arabs doesn't really hold up -- the facts are more complicated (they usually are)

What about Palestinian complicity in the Holocaust? Well, Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem from 1921-48, was a vocal supporter of the Nazis, and helped recruit Bosnian Muslim troops for the Waffen-SS. He also held discussions in Berlin with senior Nazi officials about assisting in the extermination of Jews if the Germans were able to invade Palestine. After the war, he was tried and convicted of war crimes by the Yugoslav Supreme Military Court. In his memoirs, Husseini noted that "Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours.'” So that's something.

Another thing that Ahmedinejad (and you) ignore is that a good percentage of Israeli Jews aren't European. They came from Arab countries, where Jews were treated abominably for centuries. There presence in Israel is not a result of the Holocaust, but of centuries of Arab discrimination, oppression, and massacres. So Arabs can take some of the "blame" for Jewish immigration to the Holy Land, along with the Nazis. Do you want to send Sephardic Israelis back to Yemen, Syria and Morocco?

September 25, 2007 4:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 16:08

Vouz:

The above comment: "I'm not proud that we come off as arrogant, mannerless brats in hobnail boots" said so much. Without wishing to enter into the whole saga of the Middle East and even less into that of the holocaust, just imagine what the world and the Middle East in particular think about America's treatment of its own native inhabitants at the beginning of the last century! One doesn't become emotional when watching or listening to President Ahmedinejad at any time but he represents people, many highly intelligent academics, who chose a route very different from that of the west and of the USA, in particular, where national diversity is sometimes seen as alarming and is certainly grossly misunderstood by the ignorant. He delivered a message - a disguised but very carefully worded specific message - it was there, missed by some, ignored and censored by the media but, thankfully, many of you have recognised it. He is no Trojan horse,thinks differently from his predecessors, is an academic not a warmonger. To establish change - positive change - in a questionable regime or even "democracy", one can overthrow a dictator/leader or attempt to deftly alter the flow of things,treading carefully but surely - almost imperceptibly in a direction we should applaud. The appalling words of the CU President - the host - were possibly/probably delivered to save his own skin in view of the powerful lobbies operating on Capital Hill which, doubtless, threatend him and/or his position. President A. did say at least twice: the USA and Iran could be friends. Give Iran a chance. I speak as a person whose friend (CIA) was executed in front of a firing squad in Teheran on December 16 1980.

September 25, 2007 3:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 15:59

Anonymous:

The above comment: "I'm not proud that we come off as arrogant, mannerless brats in hobnail boots" said so much. Without wishing to enter into the whole saga of the Middle East and even less into that of the holocaust, just imagine what the world and the Middle East in particular think about America's treatment of its own native inhabitants at the beginning of the last century! One doesn't become emotional when watching or listening to President Ahmedinejad at any time but he represents people, many highly intelligent academics, who chose a route very different from that of the west and of the USA, in particular, where national diversity is sometimes seen as alarming and is certainly grossly misunderstood by the ignorant. He delivered a message - a disguised but very carefully worded specific message - it was there, missed by some, ignored and censored by the media but, thankfully, many of you have recognised it. He is no Trojan horse,thinks differently from his predecessors, is an academic not a warmonger. To establish change - positive change - in a questionable regime or even "democracy", one can overthrow a dictator/leader or attempt to deftly alter the flow of things,treading carefully but surely - almost imperceptibly in a direction we should applaud. The appalling words of the CU President - the host - were possibly/probably delivered to save his own skin in view of the powerful lobbies operating on Capital Hill which, doubtless, threatend him and/or his position. President A. did say at least twice: the USA and Iran could be friends. Give Iran a chance. I speak as a person whose friend (CIA) was executed in front of a firing squad in Teheran on December 16 1980.

September 25, 2007 3:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 15:59

HAIDER ALI:

President Ahmedinejad of Iran spoke the truth at Columbia University when he said that research cannot end on any event. People have been put in jail for having a different view on the treatment of Jews by fellow Germans and Europeans, during the 1930s.

The United States became an independent country for now more than 230 years but even today books are being written and Ph.D's done on the issues of American Revolution. No body in its right mind would say that enough research has been done, therefore we will not accept any more writings.

The U.S. is controled by a small minority and that the policy makers care more about their proxy than themselves. As Americans we should look after our national interests first and foremost. We are already at war in the Middle East for the interests of our proxy. We should not enter into another to please our proxy. We must look after the American interests, first.

September 25, 2007 3:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 15:50

HAIDER ALI:

President Ahmedinejad of Iran spoke the truth at Columbia University when he said that research cannot end on any event. People have been put in jail for having a different view on the treatment of Jews by fellow Germans and Europeans, during the 1930s.

The United States became an independent country for now more than 230 years but even today books are being written and Ph.D's done on the issues of American Revolution. No body in its right mind would say that enough research has been done, therefore we will not accept any more writings.

The U.S. is controled by a small minority and that the policy makers care more about their proxy than themselves. As Americans we should look after our national interests first and foremost. We are already at war in the Middle East for the interests of our proxy. We should not enter into another to please our proxy. We must look after the American interests, first.

September 25, 2007 3:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 15:48

s walker:

Dear Friends:
No send another invitation. Send some history books, have a moment of silence that lasts his whole visit, invite every other Arab nation to a Black tie dinner for a fiest and their wives at the White House and then to the U N to discuss world caution in trade, industry, oil, gas, solar, development, protection of the natural fauna of the land, air, and waterways, the rain foresst protection of their and protection of action in space, Agiculture and land use world wide and future travel and transportation and communicate.

Dear Friends:

Friends around the world.

It is intriqueing yet incorrect that you pretend the Iranian economy is not impacted by war. It is and where to you get your supplies and weapons. Is it China or from some other illegal source.

You are wrong that President George W Bush Jr. is attempting to state or convince the world that he has some plan for the Iranian. He knows you have your own government and does not want another nation that is regrouping to be overtaken by some other force the alkida or Bin Ladin. Bin Ladin is a criminal who pretends that he is a man of faith. He is nothing when he follows a paper written by someother man who is nothing but a combination of thoughts, religions and criminal objectives for what a class, an audiance. He is the falsehood, his work is the attempt to disrupt all faiths including the Arab. Maryterdom is a christian word. Why would he ever use it to imply a goal or reward for murder. God does not teach murder in any faith. Martrys are not murders in any faith.

The sole purpose of Bin Ladin and all terrorists is to divide and destroy the good people of Iraq. They are one of the oldest societies in the world and they want them destroyed and divided. Together in their true form of prayer they can then cause and bring about with the power of God a nation powerful, educated, historical and a threat to those who want their land. Their nation for the terrorists.

President George W Bush JR and the USA and citizens there of do not have a purpose to continue in Iraq nor to govern any other foreign nation. It is the objective and always has been to reward and respect citizens of all other nations. To respect your government and economics and education as you may decide. It is Bin Laden who attacked the USA on 9/11 and we will not ever forget that a man two faced and a face of evil can be like a garbage can. One who took the good of an education from the USA and destroyed its good meaning and all he learned.

Bin Laden you know history, then you know that Abraham was a brother to another nation.

You cannot change that. But the person you took and pergered his writting is an illegal writer a great pretender. You are one that uses something else you learned in the USA, the media, sience, medicine, and drama.

You also learned of Hitler. Your are a dramatic copy cat of him and will be destroyed. All who follow you and any terrorists of any nation is in fact following the false angel or the devil.

You are a false hood.

May there be no dust on this earth of you or your offspring for you are the Satan that has revealed your attempt and purpose to destroy all faiths including the Koran or ARAB Faith.

You are visible in the mountains of Pakistan and the rivers and streams and under the soil. And Iran will come to know the true destructive force of which you falsely teach.

President George W Bush Jr. is our president and does want to negotiate with Iran when they are purposfully honest. But you have given missles and supported bombing in Several other nations including Lebanon which is in our scriptures and in historical teachings. He is one president of this time. You tried to destroy and theaten the children and people of the USA on 9/11 Bin Laden, but did not succeed. We the people of the USA are who you were educated from, and we are alive and still fighting and will until you are dead. Wanted dead or alive yet with a reward for any one with information leading to his capture.

You see president of Iran and Komini we have not issued a wanted dead or alive for you. We have tried to talk. Intelligently and respectively for we are concerned for the largest and the smallest of all nations. Not with purpose to govern but for reasonable peaceful resolve.

Our futures are now for our children and offspring of the future.

The borders you accused Britain of crossing, Iran crossed illegally. For you are not respecting the Iraqi people, their borders and their nation and new constitution respectfully and proudly voted on by all their citizens and people. They are a nation, with a new consititution one they decided on. They are a proud and strong people that will survive time as per history. Do not be that which is the will of Satan for God may open the ground of which you stand on.

We the people of the USA will return home. The quicker peace and no war and resolve within and by all the intellectually intelligent Arab world or nations the sooner this will happen and the stronger you will be.

A larger threat has shown it's face the illegal chemical destructions of China in food, product and rain. This is a threat to all the world including the ARAB people and nations. Their economic growth and gold and consumption of oil will destroy.

We the people of the USA have choices to decide to buy or not as does every other nation.

Historically the peaceful intelligent ARAB and Israel nations have survived time and will as is written.

Sharon W

June 30, 2007 2:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on June 30, 2007 14:09

sharon walker:
Dear Friends:

Iran has made a statement that they would blast Israel if they attacked or bombed them. I declare that is not very nice. A light bulb goes off just thinking and or saying such a thing.
Why in Virginia my grandmother would say such a thing Darling you should not be worrying your little head about.

Now why don't you gentlemen be sociable and talk nice. There are storms all over the world and your Great ancestors were relatives.

I know you are not like Osama Bin Laden a rather crude, highly insulting, cowardly person who is deceiptful and certainly would not be a guest at our home front. Now you have come to our nation and have talked and unlike the jabbering Venezuelian Chavez, you have tried to think through things. However, making a threat before the act is like a gentlemens quarrel. Surely you are not anything less than educated, you have shown manner, you have shown you are a leader, and willing to talk and appear before the public, unlike the mannic depressed, schizophrenic, paranoid, pedephillia that Osama Bin Laden is.

There is no warrant for your arrest and no reward for you. Oh please be gentlemenly, I know all those little children in Iran need to know you are a titled and intelligent man.

We have been taught to respect those who are our off distant nations people and God taught us he does have a place for those he chooses.

A light bulb a computer, cells, solar power magnified. You know the small security cameras and those long light bulbs. Perhaps in the nations of the world someone can invent a cheaper more efficient light bulb. The children of Iran I hope they like all the children of the world each and every one tries to compete for the world competition of the Olympics. Perhaps one day the Olympics could be in an Arab nation.

The Arabian horse with the chariots the world knows the Arabian is one of the stonger of breeds and who is the worlds best dresser, rider, trainer and olympian. Bring it back to the Olympics Iran. You and all the Arabian I would like to see entrants in every event. Swimming modify the suits.

The world would like to see your countries peacefully. Your people visited from afar more. Can this be???

God Bless you.

Sharon W

September 19, 2007 7:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 19, 2007 19:32

SHARON WALKER:
DEAR FRIENDS:

WELL! WELL! WELL! DID ANYONE SEE THE ARITICLE IN THE SACRAMENTO BEE OF SEPTEMBER 21, 2007 IRAN FREES U.S. SCHOLAR.

NOW I HAVE TO SAY THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF INTELLIGENT LEADERS WHO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE OF SOMEON WHO IS NOT A DANGER AND RELEASES AMERICAN SCHOLARS. MY RESPECT FOR SUCH ACTION!!!

COMMENDABLE FOR YOU PERSONALLY, FOR YOUR PEOPLE, FOR YOUR NATION. IT IS THIS AND THE FACT YOUR LEADERS HIDE NOT WHEN THEY SPEAK, BUT COME AND DISCUSS THINGS WORLD WIDE AND MAKE DECITIONS ALSO WITH THIS TYPE OF CONSIDERATION. IT IS NOT DESTRUCTIVE TO DISAGREE FROM TIME TO TIME. YOUR LEADERS UNDERSTAND THIS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE NOT FEARFUL TO GO BEFORE OTHER LEADERS OF THE U.N. AND OTHER NATIONS. I AS A CITIZEN OF THE U. S. A. AM FEARFUL AND PRAY FOR OUR CITIZENS WHEN THEY GO TO OTHER NATIONS THAT THEY MAY BE PERCEIVED AS QUESTIONABLE IN THEIR ACTIONS. IT IS THANKFUL AND A STATEMENT TO THE WORLD THAT THESE TYPES OF LEADERS RESPECT THEIR CITIZENS, THEIR NATION, AND ARE RESPECTFUL OF OTHER NATIONS.

CONGRATULATIONS AND THANKS.

THIS ALSO SHOWS THE PEOPLE AND LEADERS OF IRAN ARE EDUCATED AND NOT FEARFUL OF SHOWING THEIR PRESENCE IN THE WORLD WITHOUT WAR. UNLIKE THE TERRORISTS AND OSAMA BIN LADEN.

I AM A PROUD AMERICAN CITIZEN, MY COUNTRY WAS ATTACKED ON SEPTEMBER 11, A DAY OF WHICH WE WILL NOT FORGET EACH AND EVERY YEAR. BY CRIMINALS AND MEN WHO HAVE MENTAL DISEASE AND WHO DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR PEOPLE. THEY FOLLOW NOT A RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE OF LONG AGO GIVEN TO THEIR PEOPLE BY GOD THROUGH PROFITS, BUT BY A DOCUMENT THAT WAS WRITTEN WITH MIXED RELIGIOUS LANGUAGES, WORDS AND FALSE PROPHESIES. THEY ARE WORDS THAT WERE AND ARE PLAGERIZED. IN CLUDING THE WORD SOLUTION WHICH WAS USED BY HITLER.
MANY PEOPLE DIED OF ALL FAITHS. HITLERS INTENT WAS TO DESTROY ALL OF ONE NATION AND WOULD HAVE GONE TO THEIR BROTHERS FROM BIBLICAL TIMES. YOU THE ARABS. HE WAS STOPPED BECAUSE PEOPLE CARED.

THIS YOUR NATION YOUR PEOPLE ARE HERE TODAY BECAUSE OF THIS AND NATIONS LIKE MINE STOPPING HIM. TODAY THE WORLD, THE ARAB WORLD NEEDS YOUR HELP. OSAMA BIN LADEN IS JUST LIKE HITLER.

September 21, 2007 7:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 21, 2007 19:33

sharon walker:
Dear Friends:

You know the question is why is Iran advancing when ......?
Well Well Well?
Brilliant question ummmm!!!
This is one of the oldest societies in the world, they have colleges, they know how to cook, buy, trade, legally and understand illegal trade, they know how to keep illegal activities outside of their society when they want to from guns, to drugs, criminals, invasions from Mexico, Bad products from China, their leader goes to one of the most argumentive, satiric nations of the world that does try to examine all sides and factors whether they agree or not. Their leader does not hide in the dark. He has taken unknown about of jabs even from schoolastic leaders, they and he has gone into the U N and would stand up for protection of the world if they saw fit including the Jungles of Amazon for clean air, they have bought the best of automobiles with the cleanest of air and have agreed to sell oil in a world that also asks for clean oil and gasoline and filters in automobiles even if the cost went up for the best product.

This is a nation that has many goods and services, and has explored the universe or outer space without blowing up their trash.

How has this nation like other nations of the Arab world progressed and succeeded in being economically what they are? Are you kidding!!!

Get with this century!!!! Modernization is not only in one nation but many.

Now they also can deny or try that Hitler existed. Birth records are there, his active military is a record, lives, burials, graves including some Arabs that were caught and would not do what he wanted were there, Oil you see, Germany traded for oil also whether it was Iran or another. My ex husbands step grandmother a woman from Poland who lived in Connecticut, USA had the burned numbers on her wrist. She was a soft spoken, honest, christian woman, catholic, she wore long sleeves and barely wanted to talk about it. Banks throughout the world and history and all other evidence in nations all over the world are not lying. Neither was she!!!

Mahmouund Ahmadineyad you may have been protected from this tragic and ugly time of history but it occurred due to a terrible man who was manic depressed, schizophrenic, paranoid and sexual abuser. This man committed attrocities of which no person or persons should ever experience.

His intent was to commit these until all the Jewish in the world and then Arabs ( their genetic brothers ) He believed races that should not exist.

Denial also occurs phsychologically for painful history and for not the want of. It also can be due to not exploring, reading, and or researching. He did not see the numbers burned on the Arabs wrists and other things that also occurred to Christians all over the world from this person.

The News week or Sacramento Bee suggested that Mahmoud is Hitler. This is not so. A lack of understanding and denial even if possibly for political reasons is not the same as the collective heyonous acts of Hitler that is like Osama Bin Laden.

How loud can I say this?
Get educated your self and do not ask such a leading assuming and ignorant question.

Papers, and Blog questioners and News Media take a more responsible position. You are to report not make news and not assume. Or you can be held liable. Ignorance as you suggest can lead to false teaching to the young of history and politicians.

Such as Was the News Week kidding when they said that President said that Hillary has won the Democratic Election? Ladies and Gentlemen, first to the Spanish as the paper suggests, this is the party election competion that is now on. If you do not understand that go back to school.

Just because the Republicans are not willing to attend a debate with the Democrats is not wrong, it is because their party can debate. Get to know the party. Both. Then vote!!! Do not be a robot.

As to the comment by the News Week, The races for each party are still just beginning. Obama do not give up. The President of the United States of America is not suggestive nor is he predudice as the News week might suggest.
Americans are you predudice ( Spanish Americans )
Black and White? Race???

Hillary what a bust, what a disgrace that you allowed the artist strip, and make a bust of you.
Art it is not!! Disgrace it is. For you are a mother, for your daughter, for the state of New York, for the Senate and the title you hold, for the previous Presidency history as the wife of the President of one of the largest nations of the world. And you want to be the President of the United States of America. Giving away it all!
Kick in the rear jack ass!!! China kick backs for trade has cost this nation how much money?
Where did all this money go? Legal fees for the bag lady???? No more!!! No more!!!
Viet Nam we still do not have health care.
Agent Orange!! Where are you. Right Bill is high and he went some place else.

China, Nafta ( they do not care ) Mexico oh to Japan auto.

GM on line for a strike!!! Home Run!!! All the way, it is a great day for a Bond Market.

Hey first time home buyers do not believe the Sacramento Bee or any other paper that says it is hard for you. Good credit, a job, real estate loans are available for up to 100%, special bond issue are there, FHA, in if applicable VA and prices are down. BUY LAND, HOMES AND COMMERCIAL. SACRAMENTO BEE RENTAL OR LANDLORDS WHO HAVE THE MONEY HELP TO MAKE HOMES AVAILABLE FOR RENT. RENTALS FOR FAMILIES, WHO LOST THEM DO TO CHINA. RENTALS FOR THE SINGLES, WITH OR WITHOUT AIDS, FAMILIES AN SINGLES THAT ARE HANDICAPPED AND OR MENTALLY CHALLENGED. SINGLE WOMEN THAT ARE ABUSED. THIS PRESENT GOVERNMENT IS PAYING FOR THIS AND

LEAVE NO CHILD BEHIND.

I love you Gerry Seinfield, I say you realized that the Sacramento Bee made the front page.

Speak out for and against those that love the Star bucks coffee. While it is over priced and promised to reward with diabetes, they are paying $1.50 approximately a month to a person who picks and grows coffee in Africa. They are unprotecting the Amazon Jungle, Scars like the roads in the Camelback mountain in Paradise Valley, Scottsdale, AZ may occurr. Oil in the little rivers of the Amazon. Oh God!!! Oh God!!!
How much is a cup of Starbucks???

My credit limit is not that high. Oh says the street person neither is mine. Take a bus. SAve the Air. Seinfield knows the Sacramento Bee, Oh they printed on September 23, 2007 the article about Starbucks. Cheers your crew speak out. Howabout it day time and night time TV.
60 minutes or 60 years how long could it take to destroy the Amozon Jungle, Animals and African fauna and the ocean. Water you see every drop even in the jungle is dear.

Oh God!!! Then there are patents, what no laws?
What about royalties!! Hey I do not want Starbucks to go out of business. I know the owner is a million donates and all and American.
But Rubbermaid and all the rest wake up. This happened to the Africans in early history of the British and India. Now correct this wrong, son.

There is a Bible story of all coming to the fields to work at different times of the day and they are each paid the same wages. This is a teaching for equal pay and representation to brothers and sisters all over the world.

Oh God! The food of the day WATER. Keep it clean. Hillary you do not have a clue. Do you drink or Chelsea or Bill Starbucks?

You have no clue bring it to the UN.

Families and national leaders all over the world including you Iran speek out. Protect the jungle and water and air of all the world. It runs and goes into all nations in one way or another.

Iran and the Arab world any China products or guns. Are they safe? Water, cancer, air.

September 25, 2007 2:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:00

sharon walker:
Dear Friends:

New York duck is Bin Laden coming down the runway!!!

Is he drawing in on another group? In Britain and or the States? How about Iran now that his speech is made? Paranoid that Osama Bin Laden is, he knows not history!! Nor the Future!!!

Brace your selves another group of terrorists talking on a cell. Phone it in if you hear it.
Please!!!!! Hurry where ever you are.

Southwest in the business world, meeting are sometimes held on a plane one on one. Not having a reserved seat can mean defete of your purpose. Which was to be a business service flights and to make it quick and cheap. For the cost of peanuts, Oscar Meyer snack packs, small with just a film across the top. Change the candy to a small mint, a teeny little pack of peanuts, or California Raisins or dried fruit. A go and great for stalled or delayed flights.

Watch for activities pilots of all American Flights and all over the world.
When you take off!!! Pilots, crew and passengers think of youselves on a flight like 9/11. Who was there for you as President of the USA? George W Bush Jr.

Now pretend I am a little girl who likes to bake and date and mad my boy friend got a new girl friend. Would you want me as your President, I have no experience to defend. my name is HI,
Hill over there ry.

NO NO Bad choice. I want someone with experience and who wants to protect this nation and who will stand up for my family, constitution. Got this my rights, Religion and Race.

Oh Columbia, drug wars, bad choice, tell your children to protect their nation. Business stay away from China products pollution, Peru to Japan and his daughter, see the Sacramento Bee a No NO. Or the world will go away. Do not buy Japanese Cars. They are owned by China. Did you not know. The change in rule from British to China. Now the communist country is in their control. What is in the product and the air of the autos of Japan and China? Small particles of lead???????????????

Send my Blog comments to as many as you can.

September 25, 2007 3:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 15:33

Rick:

Sriram Kalyan said:

Thanks RICK ..

OK ..Now that we know Palestinians have been thrown out of their land.
USA has to take lead in restoring Palestinians their right.

Create separated state for Palestinian.
Since Israel is on their land .. Israel has to part with Taxes to Palestinians yearly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick says:

Actually, the present illegitimate 'State of Israel', the West Bank and Gaza all together made up the original Palestine that was invaded and occupied by the Israelis.

So the Israelis must be evacuated from the entire region and relaocated to Texas.

Don’t worry Israelis, you will love Texas. We will partition it so that your half is contiguous, while the other half is divided into separated quarters.

You will have the prime real estate including the Dallas-Fort Worth and Crawford areas.

You will have control of the fresh water supply.

You can keep your Army, Navy, Air Force and nuclear weapons. We will back you up with the full power of the world’s last remaining super power.

We will immediately stop all federal aid to the native population, while continuing your $3 B annual aid.

Feel free to launch all the settlements that you wish in the native half’s real estate.

Assassinate the opposition leadership to create chaos on the other side.

See, it will just be a grand old party.

I’m sure that you will get along famously with our Dear Leader and World Class Hypocrite in the White House.

September 25, 2007 2:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:35

Arlington:

Bravo, Anonymous! :)

September 25, 2007 2:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:22

Lisa:

"Often he gave a run-around, responding to questions with counter-questions. Some of his comments – namely his remark that there are no homosexuals in Iran – were flat out absurd."

I was watching closely on C-soan...I think something got lost in translation here. He is of reasonable intelligence and I am sure he knows there are homosexuals in Iran...I think he was saying there is no acceptable "homosexual culture" (There will never be an Iranian version of Will and Grace!) There was another section of his talk that was not translated at all...considering his reception (Bollinger) ...I thought he did well and it is clear he did not prepare a speech that meant to incite ...if fact NOt enough attention is given to what he prepare dto talk about which sounded almost Kabalistic and very spiritual! Bollinger threw me!...what could he, i.e., the University expect to happen after such an intro...it was bad form...very disappointing...

September 25, 2007 2:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:21

Anonymous:

Chou,

You're correct. Iran does have the greatest
"ciziliation". Civilization on the other hand I'm not so sure. It had a great civilization, but that was the Persian civilization which was many centuries ago. I think a lot of people would like to challenge you on the claim of it being the greatest. You seem to love venting on American civilization but won't take the time to check out what may be wrong with Iran's...such as hyperinflation and a morbidly rising unemployment rate. But no, you've got it figured out. Americans are vile, corrupt, greedy, and genocidal monsters and the other great nations, like Putin's Russia and Hu's China, champions of human rights, ethics, and individual freedoms, will one day right all the wrongs.

Ahmadinejad is an educated man, which I can respect. And yes Bollinger's attack did a little more damage to American freedom of speech and American hospitality than wanted, but Ahmadinejad triumphed over him with some absurd remarks. Now I'm not a blind defender of Israel and his point on Palestinians paying for the Holocaust was actually somewhat valid, but what I heard was mastery of double-speak. I still don't think he's a trustworthy man, same with Bush or Putin. The only difference being Putin is perhaps the most cunning of them all. I understand what he says is from an Iranian/Middle Eastern perspective, but I'm not going to cash all my belief chips on a man who frequently spars with his own government and still has yet to deliver reforms. Bush is no better, but that doesn't mean Mahmoud is better. I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to reason with a man who believes Allah put him on Earth to facilitate the return of the 12th imam, just like the president who believes God put him in office.

I'm for letting the man speak and I'm impressed I wasn't given the same vitriol I've heard again and again. Politicians should understand that in an academic environment he can be allowed to speak. Frankly this event did nothing but give Mahmoud media legitimacy but at the same time decreasing his international appeal with his remarks, and Columbia/US gets a big negative for being poor hosts but at the same time allowing people to understand this enigma known as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

September 25, 2007 2:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:18

Sriram Kalyan:

Thanks RICK ..

OK ..Now that we know Palestinians have been thrown out of their land.
USA has to take lead in restoring Palestinians their right.

Create separated state for Palestinian.
Since Israel is on their land .. Israel has to part with Taxes to Palestinians yearly.

September 25, 2007 2:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:13

Rick:

Bruce,

Israel occupied Palestine in 1947 after running the British and Palestinians out of Palestine and into refugee camps.

From another thread:

Here is an excellent post from MASS which I think captures our dilemma perfectly. Serious criminal mistakes were made last century by the UN, Great Britain and the USA: e.g. the Balfour Declaration of 1917 accelerating the illegal and immoral emigration and Zionist infestation of Palestine, and the UN partition of Palestine in 1947 leading to the establishment of the current illegitimate ‘State of Israel’. The question of this century is what are we going to do about it? The UN obviously needs to be restructured to negate the terrorist state of US_Israel’s ability to veto any attempt at a just solution to this crisis.

MASS:

‘The whole world will never see peace as long as the crime of the 20th century is not handled adequately. The legitimate state of Palestine was removed from the world map to be replaced by the illegitimate state of Israel with new immigrants from all over the world.

Palestinians, being Moslems or Christians, were kicked out into refugee camps to be replaced by Jews from Europe, Russia, Ethiopia, Poland etc.
Repercussions of this heinous crime are behind all turmoil and bloodshed in the Middle East including Iraq, Lebanon, Palestinian occupied territories, Syria, Iran etc.

The unlimited support of US to Israel has been encouraging the latter to reject all UN resolutions on the Palestinian Issue including Resolution 194 which calls for the return of all Palestinian refugees home. It is time for the US admin to wake up to the real cause of all problems in the area and to resolve this chronic issue in a fair way to all concerned parties immediately. The only feasible solution to this chronic problem is to set up one secular state for all Israelis and Palestinians regardless of their religion to live in peace on all the land of historical Palestine.’

RICK:

I would only add that we have proven the hard way that Israelis and Palestinians cannot live together. We must evacuate the 5 million illegitimate Jews from Palestine and relocate them to Texas.

September 25, 2007 2:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 14:03

Sriram Kalyan:

Hi All,

Simple Question:

Why Israel was created on Palestinian lands ?

Part of Germany should have been Israel !!

Can any one give me link to UN resolution for formation of Israel ...?

September 25, 2007 1:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 13:52

Arlington:

You certainly have those Palestine's who don't so strongly object to Israel because they have the luxuries of living in a weather state (mainly those Palestinians living within recognized Israel), but for those in the occupied territories it is much worst to be occupied under Israel than the Arab states. Beside the cultural similarities (even when it is bad, they know how to protest), under occupation they can not freely move even within their own 'territory,' move outside their territory (this certainty applies to Gaza where they are still frequently invaded and prevented from bringing in or taking out goods, foods or people on a regular basis (yes, argue which came first)) and live a life knowing that most of their family will die from Israel, starvation/basic medical issues, or terrorists. (btw, you do know that many of the suicide bombers are forced to do that or their own family will die, right? Kinda' like many of the kidnappings-idea. Not all, but it's important to recognize the three groups of bombers - especially for prevention sake because all bombings ARE bad)
Second, Palestinians have always been Palestinians, but their family and clan is closest, then national identity and then regional, ie, Arab, identity. So there is not so much a need to claim freedom from Egypt of Jordan (which can have argued about their basis of nationality) unless their leadership hurts the population so bad that they must reinstate their own leadership role. Which, is what is trying to be done with those in the territories (who have NOT left to find a better and less death-filled life for their families) and being done in ways that we understand and is compiling to our values and those that are not, but compiling with the belief that gets re-instated that even if they follow the rules, they will get killed and kicked down. Yes, it would be great if they would rise above, but then you get family starving and murdered and used as tools by others which begs a better alternative than self-destruction for the good of a future not promised by those in power...

September 25, 2007 1:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 13:33

Syed Zaidi:

I am really appalled by the lack of objectivity shown by Mr. Bollinger president of an academic institution but our problem in America is that even after debackle of WMD case in Iraq we still believe whatever neocons and Zionist looby feed us without our own research. Calling President of a country which is one of very few democracies in Middle East is really shamefull. We should look at the human right records of our puppet moderate kings and presidents & primeministers in Middle East such as our great friend Shah of Jordan & Saudi Arabia, President of Egypt and Prime minister of Israel etc.,.
You agree or not but Iran is the most important country in that region with an independent policy not kow towing the Bush line.

September 25, 2007 1:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 13:26

Bruce:

I thought Israel occupied Gaza (Egypt) after attacked by the Egyptians and the West Bank(Jordan)after being attacked by Jordan. Where were the shouts to liberate Palestine from those countries?

Israel pulled out from Gaza and now has missiles as their reward.

September 25, 2007 1:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 13:13

Ivory:

This article was very well written and I agree with her positions. Many Americans do not know the history of American intervention in Iran. We wrested control of their oil fields during WWII and refused to give them profits after the war. When a democratically elected government asked for their fair share, we backed a cout d'etat and inserted the Shah who played by our rules. We really have no room to talk when it comes to democracy in the Middle East.

Great article!

September 25, 2007 1:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 25, 2007 13:01

Rick:

Asbestos,

How about questioning what the Palestinians had to do with the Holocaust. Why should they be occupied and punished by the Israelis?

September 25, 2007 12:59 PM |

Vivian Salama

USA/Middle East

Vivian Salama

USA/Middle East

Ahmedinejad Provokes Important Discussions

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