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Member Comments Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/16/2008 5:00:32 PM
Comment: world news in democratic change demanded for newer ethics of people in th district court of northern district of texas, at 1100 commerce, Dallas, Texas ,usa for memand of almost record setting amout of 1.5 (one point five trillions of u s $ for damages to u s presidential candidate_republican for democratic wrong doing by 390 + defendants ( jury was requested to decide the more exact amount od damages to be paid to pro se plaintiff, the rev kamal karna roy aka joseph geronimo jr, who wa born in guam, a u territory in Pacific (dob :3.31. 1934) a have_not in usa, a clergy on vow of poverty (IRS RULE) TO SERVE GOD/S OF RELIGIONS FOR SERVICE TO PEOPLE.bUT HIS AIM OF SERVICE TO WE THE PEOPLE VIRTUALLY FAILEDWITH INTENT TO SERVENATION NAMED AS OUR MOTHERLAND, THE REPUBLIC OF USA AS NOT ONLY DEMOCRATI INTENT IN IRAQ OF USA INITIATIVE, & PAKISTANI DEMOCRACY WITH SUPPORT OF US DID NOT JUST FAIL, BUT CREATED A PANDORA'S BOX IN DEMOCRACY, COMMONERS IN THE WORLD ARE SURPISED EVERYDAY THAT BOX MAY OPEN NEWER GLIMMICK IN DEMOCRACY OF CONVENIENCE OF REAL_LIFE PANDORA_MUSAREF, PERVEZ. nOW CMING TO USA DEMOCRACY THE PLAINTIFFS IN CIVIL COURT ACTION WERE MADE TO BELIEVE THAT DEMOCRATIC ELECTION FOR U S PRESIDENT WAS A DOG_FIGHT SYNDROME OF DEMOCRACY WHEREIN ONLY BIGGY_DOGS OF SELECTED OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TOPARTICIPATE,OTHERS WOULD BE RESTRICTED WITH TOO MANY CONROLS SUPERVISES BY POWERFULS, THEY ONLY CONVIENTLY JUDGE DOG_FIGH EPISODES AND LOW_BARKING DOGS WOULD NOT ALLOWED TO BARK/CO,MPLAIN IN VIIORS' GALARY, THIS WAS A CASE WITH KAMAL ROY TO SUFFER AND SUSTAIND DANAGES ALONG WITH PLAINTIFFS ASSOCIATIONS , PETITIONED PRO SE BY COMMON OFFICER OF THE PLAINTIFFS ( 140 + NOS ) NON PROFIT TAX EXEMPT THROUGH GRUP EXEMPTION BY IRS ; SEE FRCP RULE AND THE U S CONSTITUTIONL RIGHT OF CITIZENS TO LAWFULLY SSOCIATE AND ACT IN ANY ACTION INCLUDING CIVIL ACTIONS ALTHOUGH KAMAL WAS A POOR CLERGY, BUT US CITIZEN. HILLARY, OBAMA, MCCAIN WAS BENEFICIARIES TO NEWS COVERAGES BY US NEWS MEDIA AND NEWS PRODUCING ONGLOMERATES WITH USES, ABUSES AND CAUSING HARM TO WEAKER CANDIDATES WHO RECEIVED NO NEWS COVERAGES AS CANDIDATES INCLUDING HAVE_NOT KAMAL ROYHILLARY USED GENDER &OBAMA USED SKIN/RACE OF ELECTORATE ALL ILLEGAL APPPROACHES IN CAMPAIGN. AS SUCH HILLRY/OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED IN ELECTON/ RACES.. PRAYERS WERE IN PETITION TO REDRESS GRIEVANCES.

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN @ 02/16/2008 7:41:49 AM
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Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/11/2008 8:08:34 AM
Comment: 11/2008 7:43:49 AM
Comment: The Road To a GOP Minority
A Florida project shows why Republicans will remain in the minority.
- By George F. Will

CommentsLISANROY wrote:
please refer to"federal justia docket" find court cations commenced by the reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka joseph geronimo jr , a republican u s presidential candidate 2008; now dr roy moved to atleast three u district courts in california, new jersey and at new hampshire at concord nh, usa to postpone the us presidential elctoral competitions by 350+ defendants while dr roy filed complaints pro se for self as a u s born citizen of usa for birth in Guam, u s territory in pacific, and hi is a f e c registered candidate but all defendants including usa govt, states of usa, state boards of elections f e c all neglected status of the candidate to curb his chances to be elected u s president; us media in news and giant news conglomerates viz associated press, cnn news, news corp , gannet news , new yorks times co all just ignored a patriot to take leadership in the troubled and richest democratic republic viz usa. usa may fail democracy in iraq, in pakistan et al but it shall be largest deficits in entire world of democracies ,now suffererings of dysfunctions of jungle democracy, to
fail the entire century old leadership scopes of usa. see websites to check vision of kamal karna roy, a newer voice in world of democrtacies in deficits those need to be replenished to save human conditions as human_animals, rev lisa n roy, executive officer, dr kamal k k roy election committee to settle one like kamal roy as us president 2008, although efforts could be zero sum game and may be an episode off loss but kamal told usa citizenry recently that efforts of a unit of "we the people" MAY NOT BE IGNOORED TO REVIVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERY MEMBER OF "WE THE PEOPLE" IN usa, OTHERWISE,WE THE PEOPLE CONCEPT FAILS TOSTRIKE BLOW TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF LISA ROY ALSTON ; THE REVEREND MS GARGI R lAHIRI REFORMS AGENT & ASST TO REV DR KAMAL K K ROY CANDIDATE /HOPEFUL U S PRESIDENT'S JOB 2008 ; THE REVEREND MS ATREYEE ROY SEN DIRECTOR REFORMS IN DEMOCRATIC WORLD IN S E ASIA ; REVROBIN DALE lashua ; the rev paromita r Baidya (ms); et al,WITH CONSENT (dt 2.11. 2008 new york city, usa ) OF The reverend DR KAMAL karna karuna ROY ,( aka joseph geronimo jr 9BORN IN gUAM, U S TERRITORY IN pACIFIC ) ( A u s born CITIZEN PURSUANT TO U S ACT 1978 FOR GUAM AND MARIANA ISLAND PEOPLE WHO WAS LIVING AND RESIDENT OF MAINLAND usa,. Kamal k k roy lived in usa in new york state, et al in usa including in washington dc areas since 1968; ss 3 578 80 4399. see photograph in website votre smart org :candidate u s president 2008 from n y state; voter republican saranac lake, new york 12983; Campaign office : 107 A scribner Avenue , staten island , city of new york n y 10301 ; mailing address p o box 1173 saranac lake new york 12983, usa

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Member Comments Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/16/2008 5:00:32 PM
Comment: world news in democratic change demanded for newer ethics of people in th district court of northern district of texas, at 1100 commerce, Dallas, Texas ,usa for memand of almost record setting amout of 1.5 (one point five trillions of u s $ for damages to u s presidential candidate_republican for democratic wrong doing by 390 + defendants ( jury was requested to decide the more exact amount od damages to be paid to pro se plaintiff, the rev kamal karna roy aka joseph geronimo jr, who wa born in guam, a u territory in Pacific (dob :3.31. 1934) a have_not in usa, a clergy on vow of poverty (IRS RULE) TO SERVE GOD/S OF RELIGIONS FOR SERVICE TO PEOPLE.bUT HIS AIM OF SERVICE TO WE THE PEOPLE VIRTUALLY FAILEDWITH INTENT TO SERVENATION NAMED AS OUR MOTHERLAND, THE REPUBLIC OF USA AS NOT ONLY DEMOCRATI INTENT IN IRAQ OF USA INITIATIVE, & PAKISTANI DEMOCRACY WITH SUPPORT OF US DID NOT JUST FAIL, BUT CREATED A PANDORA'S BOX IN DEMOCRACY, COMMONERS IN THE WORLD ARE SURPISED EVERYDAY THAT BOX MAY OPEN NEWER GLIMMICK IN DEMOCRACY OF CONVENIENCE OF REAL_LIFE PANDORA_MUSAREF, PERVEZ. nOW CMING TO USA DEMOCRACY THE PLAINTIFFS IN CIVIL COURT ACTION WERE MADE TO BELIEVE THAT DEMOCRATIC ELECTION FOR U S PRESIDENT WAS A DOG_FIGHT SYNDROME OF DEMOCRACY WHEREIN ONLY BIGGY_DOGS OF SELECTED OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TOPARTICIPATE,OTHERS WOULD BE RESTRICTED WITH TOO MANY CONROLS SUPERVISES BY POWERFULS, THEY ONLY CONVIENTLY JUDGE DOG_FIGH EPISODES AND LOW_BARKING DOGS WOULD NOT ALLOWED TO BARK/CO,MPLAIN IN VIIORS' GALARY, THIS WAS A CASE WITH KAMAL ROY TO SUFFER AND SUSTAIND DANAGES ALONG WITH PLAINTIFFS ASSOCIATIONS , PETITIONED PRO SE BY COMMON OFFICER OF THE PLAINTIFFS ( 140 + NOS ) NON PROFIT TAX EXEMPT THROUGH GRUP EXEMPTION BY IRS ; SEE FRCP RULE AND THE U S CONSTITUTIONL RIGHT OF CITIZENS TO LAWFULLY SSOCIATE AND ACT IN ANY ACTION INCLUDING CIVIL ACTIONS ALTHOUGH KAMAL WAS A POOR CLERGY, BUT US CITIZEN. HILLARY, OBAMA, MCCAIN WAS BENEFICIARIES TO NEWS COVERAGES BY US NEWS MEDIA AND NEWS PRODUCING ONGLOMERATES WITH USES, ABUSES AND CAUSING HARM TO WEAKER CANDIDATES WHO RECEIVED NO NEWS COVERAGES AS CANDIDATES INCLUDING HAVE_NOT KAMAL ROYHILLARY USED GENDER &OBAMA USED SKIN/RACE OF ELECTORATE ALL ILLEGAL APPPROACHES IN CAMPAIGN. AS SUCH HILLRY/OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED IN ELECTON/ RACES.. PRAYERS WERE IN PETITION TO REDRESS GRIEVANCES.

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN @ 02/16/2008 7:41:49 AM
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Sorry, no results for "OBAMA AND HILLARY BE BARRED FROM PRES ELECTION 2008 FOR USING GENDER (HILLARY IS A WOMAN) AND RACE OR COLOR OF SKIN (OBAMA CLAIMS THAT HE IS BLACKER AMERICAN, WHITH WHITE AMBITION TO WIN ELECTION 2008 IN USA ? DR THE REV KAMAL ROY FILED PETITION AS OF 2.16. 2008 IN THE U S D COURT DALLAS TEXAS TO BAR THEM TO BE CANDIDATE AS THIR ILLEGAL CIVIL VIOLATION OF USING GENDER (HILLARY USED TEAR_POLITICKING BEFORE WOMEN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTERS TO ATTRACT WOMEN TO VOTE HER TOWARDS U S PRESIDENCY. OBAMA WAS NOT HIMSELF SURE IF HE WAS BLACKER U S CITIZEN OR WHITER US MAN. HE POSED PURE BLACK TO INCITE AFRICAN AMERICANS IN DC AREA TO INCITE BLACKS TO WIN PRESIDENCY 1008. ANY DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES BASED ON GHENDER (OF CANDIDATE / ELECTORATE AND VOTING BASED ON COLOR OR RACE OF CANDIDATE / ELECTORATE IS PRESUMABLY ILLEGAL AND BOTH CRIMINAL AND CIVIL OFFENCE; THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL /CANDIDATE REV DR KAMAL ROY IS EXPECTING DAMAGES DUE LURING AWAY VOTERS AGINST HIM IN ELECTION OF NOV 2008 AS HE IS HOPEFUL TO BE DRAFTED AS THE US REPULIAN PARTY NOMINEE AS CLEAN MR MS PREIDENT_REPUBLICAN AT REPUBLICAN PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION THIS YEAR PENDING. HILLARY OR OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED FROM FEDERAL OR USA STATE ELECTION FOR LIFE OR AT LEAST FOR 3 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TERM. . IS A PRAYER ALONG WITH PRAYER TO ORDER INJUNCTION ON USA GOVT AS DEFENDANT ALONG WITH390+ OTHER DEFENDANTS AND KAMAL ROY + 151 = plaintiff unincorporated financially starving associations as plaintiffs , and kamal with a law dgree from a foreign nation, and an m b a degree (exactly m s degree from S N N Y" in Yahoo! Answers

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Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/11/2008 8:08:34 AM
Comment: 11/2008 7:43:49 AM
Comment: The Road To a GOP Minority
A Florida project shows why Republicans will remain in the minority.
- By George F. Will

CommentsLISANROY wrote:
please refer to"federal justia docket" find court cations commenced by the reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka joseph geronimo jr , a republican u s presidential candidate 2008; now dr roy moved to atleast three u district courts in california, new jersey and at new hampshire at concord nh, usa to postpone the us presidential elctoral competitions by 350+ defendants while dr roy filed complaints pro se for self as a u s born citizen of usa for birth in Guam, u s territory in pacific, and hi is a f e c registered candidate but all defendants including usa govt, states of usa, state boards of elections f e c all neglected status of the candidate to curb his chances to be elected u s president; us media in news and giant news conglomerates viz associated press, cnn news, news corp , gannet news , new yorks times co all just ignored a patriot to take leadership in the troubled and richest democratic republic viz usa. usa may fail democracy in iraq, in pakistan et al but it shall be largest deficits in entire world of democracies ,now suffererings of dysfunctions of jungle democracy, to
fail the entire century old leadership scopes of usa. see websites to check vision of kamal karna roy, a newer voice in world of democrtacies in deficits those need to be replenished to save human conditions as human_animals, rev lisa n roy, executive officer, dr kamal k k roy election committee to settle one like kamal roy as us president 2008, although efforts could be zero sum game and may be an episode off loss but kamal told usa citizenry recently that efforts of a unit of "we the people" MAY NOT BE IGNOORED TO REVIVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERY MEMBER OF "WE THE PEOPLE" IN usa, OTHERWISE,WE THE PEOPLE CONCEPT FAILS TOSTRIKE BLOW TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF LISA ROY ALSTON ; THE REVEREND MS GARGI R lAHIRI REFORMS AGENT & ASST TO REV DR KAMAL K K ROY CANDIDATE /HOPEFUL U S PRESIDENT'S JOB 2008 ; THE REVEREND MS ATREYEE ROY SEN DIRECTOR REFORMS IN DEMOCRATIC WORLD IN S E ASIA ; REVROBIN DALE lashua ; the rev paromita r Baidya (ms); et al,WITH CONSENT (dt 2.11. 2008 new york city, usa ) OF The reverend DR KAMAL karna karuna ROY ,( aka joseph geronimo jr 9BORN IN gUAM, U S TERRITORY IN pACIFIC ) ( A u s born CITIZEN PURSUANT TO U S ACT 1978 FOR GUAM AND MARIANA ISLAND PEOPLE WHO WAS LIVING AND RESIDENT OF MAINLAND usa,. Kamal k k roy lived in usa in new york state, et al in usa including in washington dc areas since 1968; ss # 578 80 4399. see photograph in website votre smart org :candidate u s president 2008 from n y state; voter republican saranac lake, new york 12983; Campaign office : 107 A scribner Avenue , staten island , city of new york n y 10301 ; mailing address p o box 1173 saranac lake new york 12983, usa ph 528 891 5466, 518 637 6964 et al
e mail id : vishwa_dh@yahoo.com

we love ourselves but if u do not the country we live in, our dreams of good living may be may be foiled in jungle democratic dysfunctions. quotation from speeches of th reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka rev joseph geronimo jr, was born in guam, a U s territory, & pursuant to u s act 1978 , roy is a u s born citizen and a candidate hopeful u s presidential electoral competition nov 2008, due ,but dr roy petitioned to usdc in 6 federl jurisdictions with prayers to prayer to postpone election for sky_deep violations in the presidential campaign in usa , designed to ignore we the weaker people in usa. But law is law, kamal petitioned to court for campaign correction, in fact we do not iraqi democracy planned by usa, or a pakistan's type democracy of pervez musaraf, an accidental president as well as a eye washing democratic president of Pakistan, democracy sustained so far with u s lefe support apparatus loaned by usa. USA must clean democracy of the privileged, elites. coterie of vested interests groups, billionaires . human_gods in usa , and democratic devils in usa, and/or human_animals' conceived and custom made and magical god/s; kamal told recently in a small campaign rally in new york, that god/s concept must be planned and be rebuilt with changing society , changing human_values, equities all most of we the people, as god/s concept are failing for people to guide people to good morale of people in democratic society of same rule for people including have_nots,poors, disadvantaged peope , the units of we the people: in fact god/s are democratic invention of people,and now is time to amend god/s. devine system and religions in most nations in democracy; new york 2,17. 2008 :pl see below:

we love ourselves but if u do not the country we live in, our dreams of good living may be may be foiled in jungle democratic dysfunctions. quotation from speeches of th reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka rev joseph geronimo jr, was born in guam, a U s territory, & pursuant to u s act 1978 , roy is a u s born citizen and a candidate hopeful u s presidential electoral competition nov 2008, due ,but dr roy petitioned to usdc in 6 federl jurisdictions with prayers to prayer to postpone election for sky_deep violations in the presidential campaign in usa , designed to ignore we the weaker people in usa. But law is law, kamal petitioned to court for campaign correction, in fact we do not iraqi democracy planned by usa, or a pakistan's type democracy of pervez musaraf, an accidental president as well as a eye washing democratic president of Pakistan, democracy sustained so far with u s lefe support apparatus loaned by usa. USA must clean democracy of the privileged, elites. coterie of vested interests groups, billionaires . human_gods in usa , and democratic devils in usa, and/or human_animals' conceived and custom made and magical god/s; kamal told recently in a small campaign rally in new york, that god/s concept must be planned and be rebuilt with changing society , changing human_values, equities all most of we the people, as god/s concept are failing for people to guide people to good morale of people in democratic society of same rule for people including have_nots,poors, disadvantaged peope , the units of we the people: in fact god/s are democratic invention of people,and now is time to amend god/s. devine system and religions in most nations in democracy; new york 2,17. 2008 :pl see below:

we love ourselves but if u do not the country we live in, our dreams of good living may be may be foiled in jungle democratic dysfunctions. quotation from speeches of th reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka rev joseph geronimo jr, was born in guam, a U s territory, & pursuant to u s act 1978 , roy is a u s born citizen and a candidate hopeful u s presidential electoral competition nov 2008, due ,but dr roy petitioned to usdc in 6 federl jurisdictions with prayers to prayer to postpone election for sky_deep violations in the presidential campaign in usa , designed to ignore we the weaker people in usa. But law is law, kamal petitioned to court for campaign correction, in fact we do not iraqi democracy planned by usa, or a pakistan's type democracy of pervez musaraf, an accidental president as well as a eye washing democratic president of Pakistan, democracy sustained so far with u s lefe support apparatus loaned by usa. USA must clean democracy of the privileged, elites. coterie of vested interests groups, billionaires . human_gods in usa , and democratic devils in usa, and/or human_animals' conceived and custom made and magical god/s; kamal told recently in a small campaign rally in new york, that god/s concept must be planned and be rebuilt with changing society , changing human_values, equities all most of we the people, as god/s concept are failing for people to guide people to good morale of people in democratic society of same rule for people including have_nots,poors, disadvantaged peope , the units of we the people: in fact god/s are democratic invention of people,and now is time to amend god/s. devine system and religions in most nations in democracy; new york 2,17. 2008 :pl see below:

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Discuss
Comments:

Member Comments Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/16/2008 5:00:32 PM
Comment: world news in democratic change demanded for newer ethics of people in th district court of northern district of texas, at 1100 commerce, Dallas, Texas ,usa for memand of almost record setting amout of 1.5 (one point five trillions of u s $ for damages to u s presidential candidate_republican for democratic wrong doing by 390 + defendants ( jury was requested to decide the more exact amount od damages to be paid to pro se plaintiff, the rev kamal karna roy aka joseph geronimo jr, who wa born in guam, a u territory in Pacific (dob :3.31. 1934) a have_not in usa, a clergy on vow of poverty (IRS RULE) TO SERVE GOD/S OF RELIGIONS FOR SERVICE TO PEOPLE.bUT HIS AIM OF SERVICE TO WE THE PEOPLE VIRTUALLY FAILEDWITH INTENT TO SERVENATION NAMED AS OUR MOTHERLAND, THE REPUBLIC OF USA AS NOT ONLY DEMOCRATI INTENT IN IRAQ OF USA INITIATIVE, & PAKISTANI DEMOCRACY WITH SUPPORT OF US DID NOT JUST FAIL, BUT CREATED A PANDORA'S BOX IN DEMOCRACY, COMMONERS IN THE WORLD ARE SURPISED EVERYDAY THAT BOX MAY OPEN NEWER GLIMMICK IN DEMOCRACY OF CONVENIENCE OF REAL_LIFE PANDORA_MUSAREF, PERVEZ. nOW CMING TO USA DEMOCRACY THE PLAINTIFFS IN CIVIL COURT ACTION WERE MADE TO BELIEVE THAT DEMOCRATIC ELECTION FOR U S PRESIDENT WAS A DOG_FIGHT SYNDROME OF DEMOCRACY WHEREIN ONLY BIGGY_DOGS OF SELECTED OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TOPARTICIPATE,OTHERS WOULD BE RESTRICTED WITH TOO MANY CONROLS SUPERVISES BY POWERFULS, THEY ONLY CONVIENTLY JUDGE DOG_FIGH EPISODES AND LOW_BARKING DOGS WOULD NOT ALLOWED TO BARK/CO,MPLAIN IN VIIORS' GALARY, THIS WAS A CASE WITH KAMAL ROY TO SUFFER AND SUSTAIND DANAGES ALONG WITH PLAINTIFFS ASSOCIATIONS , PETITIONED PRO SE BY COMMON OFFICER OF THE PLAINTIFFS ( 140 + NOS ) NON PROFIT TAX EXEMPT THROUGH GRUP EXEMPTION BY IRS ; SEE FRCP RULE AND THE U S CONSTITUTIONL RIGHT OF CITIZENS TO LAWFULLY SSOCIATE AND ACT IN ANY ACTION INCLUDING CIVIL ACTIONS ALTHOUGH KAMAL WAS A POOR CLERGY, BUT US CITIZEN. HILLARY, OBAMA, MCCAIN WAS BENEFICIARIES TO NEWS COVERAGES BY US NEWS MEDIA AND NEWS PRODUCING ONGLOMERATES WITH USES, ABUSES AND CAUSING HARM TO WEAKER CANDIDATES WHO RECEIVED NO NEWS COVERAGES AS CANDIDATES INCLUDING HAVE_NOT KAMAL ROYHILLARY USED GENDER &OBAMA USED SKIN/RACE OF ELECTORATE ALL ILLEGAL APPPROACHES IN CAMPAIGN. AS SUCH HILLRY/OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED IN ELECTON/ RACES.. PRAYERS WERE IN PETITION TO REDRESS GRIEVANCES.

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN @ 02/16/2008 7:41:49 AM
Comment: Yahoo!MailYahoo! SearchSearch the Web: Welcome, vishwa_dh
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Sorry, no results for "OBAMA AND HILLARY BE BARRED FROM PRES ELECTION 2008 FOR USING GENDER (HILLARY IS A WOMAN) AND RACE OR COLOR OF SKIN (OBAMA CLAIMS THAT HE IS BLACKER AMERICAN, WHITH WHITE AMBITION TO WIN ELECTION 2008 IN USA ? DR THE REV KAMAL ROY FILED PETITION AS OF 2.16. 2008 IN THE U S D COURT DALLAS TEXAS TO BAR THEM TO BE CANDIDATE AS THIR ILLEGAL CIVIL VIOLATION OF USING GENDER (HILLARY USED TEAR_POLITICKING BEFORE WOMEN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTERS TO ATTRACT WOMEN TO VOTE HER TOWARDS U S PRESIDENCY. OBAMA WAS NOT HIMSELF SURE IF HE WAS BLACKER U S CITIZEN OR WHITER US MAN. HE POSED PURE BLACK TO INCITE AFRICAN AMERICANS IN DC AREA TO INCITE BLACKS TO WIN PRESIDENCY 1008. ANY DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES BASED ON GHENDER (OF CANDIDATE / ELECTORATE AND VOTING BASED ON COLOR OR RACE OF CANDIDATE / ELECTORATE IS PRESUMABLY ILLEGAL AND BOTH CRIMINAL AND CIVIL OFFENCE; THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL /CANDIDATE REV DR KAMAL ROY IS EXPECTING DAMAGES DUE LURING AWAY VOTERS AGINST HIM IN ELECTION OF NOV 2008 AS HE IS HOPEFUL TO BE DRAFTED AS THE US REPULIAN PARTY NOMINEE AS CLEAN MR MS PREIDENT_REPUBLICAN AT REPUBLICAN PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION THIS YEAR PENDING. HILLARY OR OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED FROM FEDERAL OR USA STATE ELECTION FOR LIFE OR AT LEAST FOR 3 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TERM. . IS A PRAYER ALONG WITH PRAYER TO ORDER INJUNCTION ON USA GOVT AS DEFENDANT ALONG WITH390+ OTHER DEFENDANTS AND KAMAL ROY + 151 = plaintiff unincorporated financially starving associations as plaintiffs , and kamal with a law dgree from a foreign nation, and an m b a degree (exactly m s degree from S N N Y" in Yahoo! Answers

Check your spelling and try more general words.
Ask the users of Yahoo! Answers.

Answers International: Argentina Australia Brazil Canada China France Germany Hong Kong India Indonesia Italy Japan Malaysia Mexico New Zealand Philippines Quebec Singapore South Korea Spain Taiwan Thailand United Kingdom United States Vietnam en Español

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Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/11/2008 8:08:34 AM
Comment: 11/2008 7:43:49 AM
Comment: The Road To a GOP Minority
A Florida project shows why Republicans will remain in the minority.
- By George F. Will

CommentsLISANROY wrote:
please refer to"federal justia docket" find court cations commenced by the reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka joseph geronimo jr , a republican u s presidential candidate 2008; now dr roy moved to atleast three u district courts in california, new jersey and at new hampshire at concord nh, usa to postpone the us presidential elctoral competitions by 350+ defendants while dr roy filed complaints pro se for self as a u s born citizen of usa for birth in Guam, u s territory in pacific, and hi is a f e c registered candidate but all defendants including usa govt, states of usa, state boards of elections f e c all neglected status of the candidate to curb his chances to be elected u s president; us media in news and giant news conglomerates viz associated press, cnn news, news corp , gannet news , new yorks times co all just ignored a patriot to take leadership in the troubled and richest democratic republic viz usa. usa may fail democracy in iraq, in pakistan et al but it shall be largest deficits in entire world of democracies ,now suffererings of dysfunctions of jungle democracy, to
fail the entire century old leadership scopes of usa. see websites to check vision of kamal karna roy, a newer voice in world of democrtacies in deficits those need to be replenished to save human conditions as human_animals, rev lisa n roy, executive officer, dr kamal k k roy election committee to settle one like kamal roy as us president 2008, although efforts could be zero sum game and may be an episode off loss but kamal told usa citizenry recently that efforts of a unit of "we the people" MAY NOT BE IGNOORED TO REVIVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERY MEMBER OF "WE THE PEOPLE" IN usa, OTHERWISE,WE THE PEOPLE CONCEPT FAILS TOSTRIKE BLOW TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF LISA ROY ALSTON ; THE REVEREND MS GARGI R lAHIRI REFORMS AGENT & ASST TO REV DR KAMAL K K ROY CANDIDATE /HOPEFUL U S PRESIDENT'S JOB 2008 ; THE REVEREND MS ATREYEE ROY SEN DIRECTOR REFORMS IN DEMOCRATIC WORLD IN S E ASIA ; REVROBIN DALE lashua ; the rev paromita r Baidya (ms); et al,WITH CONSENT (dt 2.11. 2008 new york city, usa ) OF The reverend DR KAMAL karna karuna ROY ,( aka joseph geronimo jr 9BORN IN gUAM, U S TERRITORY IN pACIFIC ) ( A u s born CITIZEN PURSUANT TO U S ACT 1978 FOR GUAM AND MARIANA ISLAND PEOPLE WHO WAS LIVING AND RESIDENT OF MAINLAND usa,. Kamal k k roy lived in usa in new york state, et al in usa including in washington dc areas since 1968; ss 3 578 80 4399. see photograph in website votre smart org :candidate u s president 2008 from n y state; voter republican saranac lake, new york 12983; Campaign office : 107 A scribner Avenue , staten island , city of new york n y 10301 ; mailing address p o box 1173 saranac lake new york 12983, usa

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Member Comments Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/16/2008 5:00:32 PM
Comment: world news in democratic change demanded for newer ethics of people in th district court of northern district of texas, at 1100 commerce, Dallas, Texas ,usa for memand of almost record setting amout of 1.5 (one point five trillions of u s $ for damages to u s presidential candidate_republican for democratic wrong doing by 390 + defendants ( jury was requested to decide the more exact amount od damages to be paid to pro se plaintiff, the rev kamal karna roy aka joseph geronimo jr, who wa born in guam, a u territory in Pacific (dob :3.31. 1934) a have_not in usa, a clergy on vow of poverty (IRS RULE) TO SERVE GOD/S OF RELIGIONS FOR SERVICE TO PEOPLE.bUT HIS AIM OF SERVICE TO WE THE PEOPLE VIRTUALLY FAILEDWITH INTENT TO SERVENATION NAMED AS OUR MOTHERLAND, THE REPUBLIC OF USA AS NOT ONLY DEMOCRATI INTENT IN IRAQ OF USA INITIATIVE, & PAKISTANI DEMOCRACY WITH SUPPORT OF US DID NOT JUST FAIL, BUT CREATED A PANDORA'S BOX IN DEMOCRACY, COMMONERS IN THE WORLD ARE SURPISED EVERYDAY THAT BOX MAY OPEN NEWER GLIMMICK IN DEMOCRACY OF CONVENIENCE OF REAL_LIFE PANDORA_MUSAREF, PERVEZ. nOW CMING TO USA DEMOCRACY THE PLAINTIFFS IN CIVIL COURT ACTION WERE MADE TO BELIEVE THAT DEMOCRATIC ELECTION FOR U S PRESIDENT WAS A DOG_FIGHT SYNDROME OF DEMOCRACY WHEREIN ONLY BIGGY_DOGS OF SELECTED OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TOPARTICIPATE,OTHERS WOULD BE RESTRICTED WITH TOO MANY CONROLS SUPERVISES BY POWERFULS, THEY ONLY CONVIENTLY JUDGE DOG_FIGH EPISODES AND LOW_BARKING DOGS WOULD NOT ALLOWED TO BARK/CO,MPLAIN IN VIIORS' GALARY, THIS WAS A CASE WITH KAMAL ROY TO SUFFER AND SUSTAIND DANAGES ALONG WITH PLAINTIFFS ASSOCIATIONS , PETITIONED PRO SE BY COMMON OFFICER OF THE PLAINTIFFS ( 140 + NOS ) NON PROFIT TAX EXEMPT THROUGH GRUP EXEMPTION BY IRS ; SEE FRCP RULE AND THE U S CONSTITUTIONL RIGHT OF CITIZENS TO LAWFULLY SSOCIATE AND ACT IN ANY ACTION INCLUDING CIVIL ACTIONS ALTHOUGH KAMAL WAS A POOR CLERGY, BUT US CITIZEN. HILLARY, OBAMA, MCCAIN WAS BENEFICIARIES TO NEWS COVERAGES BY US NEWS MEDIA AND NEWS PRODUCING ONGLOMERATES WITH USES, ABUSES AND CAUSING HARM TO WEAKER CANDIDATES WHO RECEIVED NO NEWS COVERAGES AS CANDIDATES INCLUDING HAVE_NOT KAMAL ROYHILLARY USED GENDER &OBAMA USED SKIN/RACE OF ELECTORATE ALL ILLEGAL APPPROACHES IN CAMPAIGN. AS SUCH HILLRY/OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED IN ELECTON/ RACES.. PRAYERS WERE IN PETITION TO REDRESS GRIEVANCES.

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN @ 02/16/2008 7:41:49 AM
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Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/11/2008 8:08:34 AM
Comment: 11/2008 7:43:49 AM
Comment: The Road To a GOP Minority
A Florida project shows why Republicans will remain in the minority.
- By George F. Will

CommentsLISANROY wrote:
please refer to"federal justia docket" find court cations commenced by the reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka joseph geronimo jr , a republican u s presidential candidate 2008; now dr roy moved to atleast three u district courts in california, new jersey and at new hampshire at concord nh, usa to postpone the us presidential elctoral competitions by 350+ defendants while dr roy filed complaints pro se for self as a u s born citizen of usa for birth in Guam, u s territory in pacific, and hi is a f e c registered candidate but all defendants including usa govt, states of usa, state boards of elections f e c all neglected status of the candidate to curb his chances to be elected u s president; us media in news and giant news conglomerates viz associated press, cnn news, news corp , gannet news , new yorks times co all just ignored a patriot to take leadership in the troubled and richest democratic republic viz usa. usa may fail democracy in iraq, in pakistan et al but it shall be largest deficits in entire world of democracies ,now suffererings of dysfunctions of jungle democracy, to
fail the entire century old leadership scopes of usa. see websites to check vision of kamal karna roy, a newer voice in world of democrtacies in deficits those need to be replenished to save human conditions as human_animals, rev lisa n roy, executive officer, dr kamal k k roy election committee to settle one like kamal roy as us president 2008, although efforts could be zero sum game and may be an episode off loss but kamal told usa citizenry recently that efforts of a unit of "we the people" MAY NOT BE IGNOORED TO REVIVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERY MEMBER OF "WE THE PEOPLE" IN usa, OTHERWISE,WE THE PEOPLE CONCEPT FAILS TOSTRIKE BLOW TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF LISA ROY ALSTON ; THE REVEREND MS GARGI R lAHIRI REFORMS AGENT & ASST TO REV DR KAMAL K K ROY CANDIDATE /HOPEFUL U S PRESIDENT'S JOB 2008 ; THE REVEREND MS ATREYEE ROY SEN DIRECTOR REFORMS IN DEMOCRATIC WORLD IN S E ASIA ; REVROBIN DALE lashua ; the rev paromita r Baidya (ms); et al,WITH CONSENT (dt 2.11. 2008 new york city, usa ) OF The reverend DR KAMAL karna karuna ROY ,( aka joseph geronimo jr 9BORN IN gUAM, U S TERRITORY IN pACIFIC ) ( A u s born CITIZEN PURSUANT TO U S ACT 1978 FOR GUAM AND MARIANA ISLAND PEOPLE WHO WAS LIVING AND RESIDENT OF MAINLAND usa,. Kamal k k roy lived in usa in new york state, et al in usa including in washington dc areas since 1968; ss 3 578 80 4399. see photograph in website votre smart org :candidate u s president 2008 from n y state; voter republican saranac lake, new york 12983; Campaign office : 107 A scribner Avenue , staten island , city of new york n y 10301 ; mailing address p o box 1173 saranac lake new york 12983, usa

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Member Comments Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/16/2008 5:00:32 PM
Comment: world news in democratic change demanded for newer ethics of people in th district court of northern district of texas, at 1100 commerce, Dallas, Texas ,usa for memand of almost record setting amout of 1.5 (one point five trillions of u s $ for damages to u s presidential candidate_republican for democratic wrong doing by 390 + defendants ( jury was requested to decide the more exact amount od damages to be paid to pro se plaintiff, the rev kamal karna roy aka joseph geronimo jr, who wa born in guam, a u territory in Pacific (dob :3.31. 1934) a have_not in usa, a clergy on vow of poverty (IRS RULE) TO SERVE GOD/S OF RELIGIONS FOR SERVICE TO PEOPLE.bUT HIS AIM OF SERVICE TO WE THE PEOPLE VIRTUALLY FAILEDWITH INTENT TO SERVENATION NAMED AS OUR MOTHERLAND, THE REPUBLIC OF USA AS NOT ONLY DEMOCRATI INTENT IN IRAQ OF USA INITIATIVE, & PAKISTANI DEMOCRACY WITH SUPPORT OF US DID NOT JUST FAIL, BUT CREATED A PANDORA'S BOX IN DEMOCRACY, COMMONERS IN THE WORLD ARE SURPISED EVERYDAY THAT BOX MAY OPEN NEWER GLIMMICK IN DEMOCRACY OF CONVENIENCE OF REAL_LIFE PANDORA_MUSAREF, PERVEZ. nOW CMING TO USA DEMOCRACY THE PLAINTIFFS IN CIVIL COURT ACTION WERE MADE TO BELIEVE THAT DEMOCRATIC ELECTION FOR U S PRESIDENT WAS A DOG_FIGHT SYNDROME OF DEMOCRACY WHEREIN ONLY BIGGY_DOGS OF SELECTED OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TOPARTICIPATE,OTHERS WOULD BE RESTRICTED WITH TOO MANY CONROLS SUPERVISES BY POWERFULS, THEY ONLY CONVIENTLY JUDGE DOG_FIGH EPISODES AND LOW_BARKING DOGS WOULD NOT ALLOWED TO BARK/CO,MPLAIN IN VIIORS' GALARY, THIS WAS A CASE WITH KAMAL ROY TO SUFFER AND SUSTAIND DANAGES ALONG WITH PLAINTIFFS ASSOCIATIONS , PETITIONED PRO SE BY COMMON OFFICER OF THE PLAINTIFFS ( 140 + NOS ) NON PROFIT TAX EXEMPT THROUGH GRUP EXEMPTION BY IRS ; SEE FRCP RULE AND THE U S CONSTITUTIONL RIGHT OF CITIZENS TO LAWFULLY SSOCIATE AND ACT IN ANY ACTION INCLUDING CIVIL ACTIONS ALTHOUGH KAMAL WAS A POOR CLERGY, BUT US CITIZEN. HILLARY, OBAMA, MCCAIN WAS BENEFICIARIES TO NEWS COVERAGES BY US NEWS MEDIA AND NEWS PRODUCING ONGLOMERATES WITH USES, ABUSES AND CAUSING HARM TO WEAKER CANDIDATES WHO RECEIVED NO NEWS COVERAGES AS CANDIDATES INCLUDING HAVE_NOT KAMAL ROYHILLARY USED GENDER &OBAMA USED SKIN/RACE OF ELECTORATE ALL ILLEGAL APPPROACHES IN CAMPAIGN. AS SUCH HILLRY/OBAMA SHOULD BE BARRED IN ELECTON/ RACES.. PRAYERS WERE IN PETITION TO REDRESS GRIEVANCES.

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN @ 02/16/2008 7:41:49 AM
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Posted By: democratic_reforms @ 02/11/2008 8:08:34 AM
Comment: 11/2008 7:43:49 AM
Comment: The Road To a GOP Minority
A Florida project shows why Republicans will remain in the minority.
- By George F. Will

CommentsLISANROY wrote:
please refer to"federal justia docket" find court cations commenced by the reverend dr kamal karna k roy aka joseph geronimo jr , a republican u s presidential candidate 2008; now dr roy moved to atleast three u district courts in california, new jersey and at new hampshire at concord nh, usa to postpone the us presidential elctoral competitions by 350+ defendants while dr roy filed complaints pro se for self as a u s born citizen of usa for birth in Guam, u s territory in pacific, and hi is a f e c registered candidate but all defendants including usa govt, states of usa, state boards of elections f e c all neglected status of the candidate to curb his chances to be elected u s president; us media in news and giant news conglomerates viz associated press, cnn news, news corp , gannet news , new yorks times co all just ignored a patriot to take leadership in the troubled and richest democratic republic viz usa. usa may fail democracy in iraq, in pakistan et al but it shall be largest deficits in entire world of democracies ,now suffererings of dysfunctions of jungle democracy, to
fail the entire century old leadership scopes of usa. see websites to check vision of kamal karna roy, a newer voice in world of democrtacies in deficits those need to be replenished to save human conditions as human_animals, rev lisa n roy, executive officer, dr kamal k k roy election committee to settle one like kamal roy as us president 2008, although efforts could be zero sum game and may be an episode off loss but kamal told usa citizenry recently that efforts of a unit of "we the people" MAY NOT BE IGNOORED TO REVIVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERY MEMBER OF "WE THE PEOPLE" IN usa, OTHERWISE,WE THE PEOPLE CONCEPT FAILS TOSTRIKE BLOW TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF LISA ROY ALSTON ; THE REVEREND MS GARGI R lAHIRI REFORMS AGENT & ASST TO REV DR KAMAL K K ROY CANDIDATE /HOPEFUL U S PRESIDENT'S JOB 2008 ; THE REVEREND MS ATREYEE ROY SEN DIRECTOR REFORMS IN DEMOCRATIC WORLD IN S E ASIA ; REVROBIN DALE lashua ; the rev paromita r Baidya (ms); et al,WITH CONSENT (dt 2.11. 2008 new york city, usa ) OF The reverend DR KAMAL karna karuna ROY ,( aka joseph geronimo jr 9BORN IN gUAM, U S TERRITORY IN pACIFIC ) ( A u s born CITIZEN PURSUANT TO U S ACT 1978 FOR GUAM AND MARIANA ISLAND PEOPLE WHO WAS LIVING AND RESIDENT OF MAINLAND usa,. Kamal k k roy lived in usa in new york state, et al in usa including in washington dc areas since 1968; ss 3 578 80 4399. see photograph in website votre smart org :candidate u s president 2008 from n y state; voter republican saranac lake, new york 12983; Campaign office : 107 A scribner Avenue , staten island , city of new york n y 10301 ; mailing address p o box 1173 saranac lake new york 12983, usa

Refreshing approach. A framework of religiosity is still necessary for reasons beyond Turkey. Take this as an example: AKP and an overwhelming majority of Turkey's Muslims are Sunnis following the inclusive Ottoman tradition. This pits them diametrically opposed to not only the takfiri terrorists of today but also to Shiites of Iran and Lebanon, and the Wahhabis of the Arabian peninsula. At a time when a large part of the Western think tank population confuses Wahhabis to be Sunnis, this is a vital distinction. Any analysis of the region must recognize that Wahhabis sit perpendicular to both the Sunni and the Shia. History casts a long shadow on these fault lines. Going back into Turkey, it is critical to note that the opposition to Wahhabism is a key common denominator for Turkey's Sunni citizenry and secular military-bureaucratic establishment. So we'd ignore religion at our peril, but not for the usual reasons.

it's not always about you and your country and touche the press towards you ,like with US, does not always tell the whole story. Afterall the press is just trying to make a living and sometimes inciteful press is better in their crooked little minds.

i really need for the information of the role of AKP in Turkey. would you give me more information all bout AKP? that would be helpfull for my thesis, it called "AKP trying for their exsistence in Turkey" in indonesia means (Upaya AKP dalam mempertahankan eksistensinya di tengah sekularisme turki). thanks before. please sent ur e mail to kv_phita@yahoo.com

I agree with the analysis but we would ignore politics of faith at our peril. Let me try to take a pick at this: How otherwise can we analyze and draw conclusions from Turkish and Egyptian Sunni disgust with the beliefs and practices of Wahhabi Saudi Arabia? True, even some secular Turks and Egyptians mourn the loss of the Holy Land to the desert bedouin. Whether the loss felt is strategic or religious, it is a deep sense of loss influencing perceptions today and there's certainly a religious part of it. A large section of the Sunni society view Wahhabism as the third sect in Islam not a branch of Sunni Islam despite repeated Western portrayals and representations to otherwise. The Sunnis' problems with Wahhabism go as far back as Ibn Taymiyya. Two decades ago who ever had heard him? But now that OBL and Ayman Al Zawahiri are referring to Ibn Taymiyya, we should indeed understand the Sunni refusal of this ancient scholar's views. For it's by Taymiyya that Zawahiri is justifiying the killing of innocent people and even fellow Muslims. Based on Taymiyya's thinking they are declaring Pervez Musharraf and his sympathizers heretics. Now, traditional Sunni Islam strongly shuns any such excommunication and in fact threatens that it those calling fellow Muslims non believers themselves leave the circle of religion. That's the chasm between today's Qaeda and the Sunni (and even Shia) societies of the modern world. That's what they will of course be able to attack, kill and maim, but never win grass roots support. That's politics of faith, Soli.

i pose this question because over the months i have observed that you have a very strident anti-muslim position, which you clarify consistently with euro-centric revisionist history lessons.

vienna has a large statue in the center of town celebrating the stronghold where the turks were defeated from entering the european arena, yes?

as the germans are particularly prejudiced against their turkish population right now- it is similar to asking a frenchman to define algerian politics, or asking lou dobbs to defend illegal immigrant workers in america.

i will assume that your personal desire to keep turkey out of the EU may have affected your stance.

amviennava, it just occurred to me-
you wouldn't happen to be in vienna, would you?

lest we forget, at the time when kemal was modernizing turkey, american women were fighting for the right to own property!

happy 87th birthday 19 amendment!

august 26 1920 the 19th amendment was ratified giving american women the right to vote-

yeeeehaw!

while amvienna states that membership in the EU is a privilege, not a right, we would do well to remeber that turkey applied for membership some 40 years ago, and has waited longer than any other applicant for admission.

(bulgaria and romania were just admitted, and their wait time was a mere 9 years, 30 some years after turkeys application)

also, where do people get the idea that the secularism imposed by the military was in any way moderate?

while you state that the EU is not a christian club, why has turkey been waiting 40 years?

the people of turkey have voted democratically for their leadership, who happens to be a practicing muslim-
turkey has one of the highest muslim populations in the world (it is stated as 99% by international statistics)

what treatment of kurds are you talking about?
the only terrorist organization in turkey is the PKK, which are kurdish terrorists.

so, by your reasoning, turkey already IS a democracy. so it should be admitted.

thanks for your permission for a country of muslims to remain muslim.

i recommend 'the economist' as good reading about this subject.

Basat Tayfun: I am not incompetent; I don't know abut disingenuous.

You state that "Turkey has reformed more under AKP in the last few years more than any other administration. So much so that the EU agreed to begin ascension talks". That is excellent.

You also state that "In the last year or so, there has been a major backlash from the EU towards Turkey". That is true.

Also, "Some countries making it national policy to keep Turkey out, pure and simple". 'national policy' assumes that turkey is much more important than it actually is.

All this is irrelevant. Turkish, British, and US officials constantly say that the EU 'must' make Turkey a full member. There is even considerable derisive talk about the 'EU being a Christian club'. I personally believe that IF Turkey meets the conditions for membership, then Turkey, the EU, and Turkey's neighbors will be better off. But for the past couple of years I have watched as Turkey tries to re-interpret articles, or abide by selective portions of articles of the agreement between Turkey and the EU.

I do not doubt that many in the EU are not happy about Turkey joining the EU. For decades they were hiding behind Greece, and are now upset that Greece actually supports the petition by Turkey. BUT, Turkey's behavior only strengthens the argument of those who want to keep Turkey out.

An assumption in the accession is that there will be a change in Turkish attitudes. Afterall, Turkey is requesting to join the EU, not vice-versa. Part of this change in attitudes by the way concerns Turkish relations with Greece and Cyprus; also Turkey's treatment of the Kurds; also Turkey's treatment of its other minorities. These changes will bruise many egos and nationalist aspirations in Turkey; so what - Turkey is requesting to join the EU.

You say "I do not know of a single EU member that is being place under a variety of threats by other EU members". Unfortunately, Turkey threatens Greece and we had best not mention Cyprus, both of which are full EU members.

Oh, by the way, the only EU member to start a war of choice (accurate description that), is Britain, who is the most vocal country in stating that the EU MUST admit Turkey.

Democracy is NOT a silver bullet. It is not perfect. And certainly the constant attempts by the US to 'export' it or whatever it is we constantly try to do, are guaranteed to fail. But the EU is a community of democracies. That makes Democracy a prerequisite for membership.

The fact is that noone has FORCED Turkey to apply for membership. But IF Turkey wants to join the EU, then Turkey must change to accommodate the EU. Turkey can remain Muslim (since the EU is NOT a Christian club) but must become democratic - to become a full member of the EU.

Oh, sarcasm and irony are irrelevant, and best left off the keyboard.

I must point out the incomptence or disingenuousness of AMviennaVA, Jim Edwards and others that strongly believe that "Membership in the EU is NOT a right" and that "Turkey has not demonstrated that they are a truly open democratic society and have failed to respond to almost all of the requests from the EU".

Even if the above statements were 100% true, you are 100% contradicting yourselves in drawing your conclusions about EU's inculpability, which is why I suspect either you are ignorant or disingenuous.

Here are two popularly accepted observations made by a variety of analysts, leaders, lay persons, etc.:
1. Turkey has reformed more under AKP in the last few years more than any other administration. So much so that the EU agreed to begin ascension talks.
2. In the last year or so, there has been a major backlash from the EU towards Turkey. Some countries making it national policy to keep Turkey out, pure and simple.

Anyone see the contradiction in EU's behavior AND in EU's words? If not, then read the above two observations a few more times.... if you are lucky, you'll get it eventually.

With these observations, I have to assume that stating "Turkey has no right to EU" and that "Turkey has failed in adopting EU standards" is the result of being either dumb or disingenuous. (Probably not dumb. You are smart enough to use a PC and access the Internet, and assemble words into sentences).

No one said Turkey has a "right" to join the EU. What Turkey has a right to is a fair process. As for Turkey's inadequecies vis a vis EU membership; I do not know of a single EU member that is being place under a variety of threats by other EU members. For example, I do not see Turkey providing direct material support to the IRA, the way French, Austria, Germany and others have boosted the PKK over the decades and esp. recently (just observe recent headlines in Turkey -- Austria and France were caught red handed). Nor, do I see Turkey using its UN chair and military to start a "war of choice" on the borders of EU. If Western democracy was the silver bullet, I am sure it would have brought an end to the Iraqi Civil War -- it has not. So then, is Turkey supposed to strive for a perfectly free society just as it is facing internal and external threats? Can someone point to a *real* example of success? If not, then shut up!

In sum, I say to those that state so matter-of-factly that Turkey owns the EU membership process (and thus is 100% responsible for its failure):

Until you can justify EU's openly dishonest, arbitrary, contradictory and even hostile behavior towards Turkey, your comments will remain disingenuous.

A well crafted piece, but nationalistic in it's perspective in face of growing pluralism throughout secular sectors of Turkey, Greece and other Mid East enclaves.

The "rant" against the US was/is too broad brushed though. Folk globaly have concern re a class of politicians in America, but not the full cottage of general citizenry?

"No wonder then that the United States' popularity is lowest in Turkey (according to a recent Pew survey)."

American leaders are in denial re torture and it's "terrorist lock up base in Cuba"...and re wire tapping and more.

Historically, Turkeys leaders have in the past been in near total denial re the ethnic cleansing of Armenians; and in present day
parlance beat the drums re a potential need to invade bordering Kurds. All in the interests of exactly what?

We are all global citizens, with cultural, nationalistic, religious and political leanings.....but we also should be able to strike up
a temperance, tolerance, compassion and care for citizens regardless of race, creed, color or Nationality.

I'm sorry Turks hold Americans in such low regard. And I'm sorry that Americans in most part, are unable to return the favor - they likely have nothing more than a passing interest or overwhelming apathy re your country of afar. The relevance
of events in Turk land - not so compelling, in the USA.

Good luck with your neigbor the Kurds. I can hear the swords rattling and the terrorist warning bell ringing loud. And may the secularism survive - at least as long as the Islam leaders suggest that Alla with authorize.

I've met a handful of Turks in my European travels. All interesting, inciteful and generally kind folk. I'll impute the same to the bulk of it's citizens.

Interesting, hearing, reading these Post Global views written by writers from "afar." Sobering, hearing, reading that we Americans, are held in such low regard. I wish it wasn't so.

slewis, slc, ut

A well crafted piece, but nationalistic in it's perspective in face of growing pluralism throughout secular sectors of Turkey, Greece and other Mid East enclaves.

The "rant" against the US was/is too broad brushed though. Folk globaly have concern re a class of politicians in America, but not the full cottage of general citizenry?

"No wonder then that the United States' popularity is lowest in Turkey (according to a recent Pew survey)."

American leaders are in denial re torture and it's "terrorist lock up base in Cuba"...and re wire tapping and more.

Historically, Turkeys leaders have in the past been in near total denial re the ethnic cleansing of Armenians; and in present day
parlance beat the drums re a potential need to invade bordering Kurds. All in the interests of exactly what?

We are all global citizens, with cultural, nationalistic, religious and political leanings.....but we also should be able to strike up
a temperance, tolerance, compassion and care for citizens regardless of race, creed, color or Nationality.

I'm sorry Turks hold Americans in such low regard. And I'm sorry that Americans in most part, are unable to return the favor - they likely have nothing more than a passing interest or overwhelming apathy re your country of afar. The relevance
of events in Turk land - not so compelling, in the USA.

Good luck with your neigbor the Kurds. I can hear the swords rattling and the terrorist warning bell ringing loud. And may the secularism survive - at least as long as the Islam leaders suggest that Alla with authorize.

I've met a handful of Turks in my European travels. All interesting, inciteful and generally kind folk. I'll impute the same to the bulk of it's citizens.

Interesting, hearing, reading these Post Global views written by writers from "afar." Sobering, hearing, reading that we Americans, are held in such low regard. I wish it wasn't so.

slewis, slc, ut

Excellant Analysis by the author. The only thing that spoiled it was Asim. The article could be discussing dandruff and Asim would throw in his wrong headed and basised views of Palestine, Israel, and Jews. Get on the Hamas blog and discuss this garbage!

Turkey hasn't been a perfect EU candidate, but the EU's grand hypocrisies are easy to spot and sabotage its ability to scold Turkey into improvement.

An example, is the French insistence on the Armenian Genocide. Turkey should certainly own up to that. But France isn't exactly coming from a high ground, what with its refusal to acknowledge any atrocities in Algeria. Sarkozy told the Algerian PM that ``you can’t ask sons to say sorry for their fathers’ mistakes''.

The EU process is important, and it offers valuable reforms for Turkey. But by being hypocritcal on a massive scale, the EU has killed its credibility and therefore its ability to keep Turkey on a reforming patch. It often looks like Europe wants to have Turkey available to kick around more than it wants Turkey to modernize.
Turkey may not be a suitable member -- we don't know yet -- but this process has exposed the EU to charges that it really is a Christian Club.

The economic arguments are complex, but it's true that Turkey is in some ways already more qualified than new members Bulgaria and Romania. I hope Turkey continues with the EU process, but I wouldn't blame the country for telling the EU to bugger off.

I think Turkey should walk away from EU membership immediately. Instead, it should wait until Europe begs it to enter its sorry union. By then, Turkey will have improved its ties with Russia and the former Soviet republics of Turkic origins.

Mr Ozel seems to have conveniently forgotten one of the main reasons why Turkey's admittance into the EU was held up. Their refusal to recognize that the Armenian genocide took place, let alone the fact that they orchestrated it led many EU members to seek clarification on the matter from Turkey. Turkey refused and during this time a prominent Turkish Professor was murdered after he stated that the Turks were in fact responsible for the extermination of thousands of Christian Armenians. Not exactly the behavior of a free and open society.

The author seems to harbor a great deal of hostility and resentment to the western world, blaming everyone else for Turkey's problems. His overgeneralizations about the Turkish voters would seem almost ignorant if it came from an American professor. So all Turks feel cheated and betrayed by the EU and the US? and anyone who didn't vote for the AKP are xenophobic? Hopefully his students are intelligent enough to think for themselves.

The very fact that Turkish voters had to choose between millitary rule or Muslim rule speaks volumes about their society. If Mr Ozel reprents the mainstream viewpoint in Turkey then it is true that Turkey has a long way to go before they should be accepted into the EU.

As a fellow liberal Turk, I found Soli's analysis of AKP's ascendancy in Turkish politics largely fair and accurate. AKP's enabled stewardship of the economy handed them the electoral victory. It should be noted, however, that the very existence of a secularist tradition is itself a strong argument for economic success, albeit not sufficient by itself. Turks of any walk of life are good consumers first and foremost.

I must agree with AMviennaVA:
"Membership in the EU is NOT a right. It is a privilege granted by the members of the EU, based on agreed upon conditions and schedules."
Turkey has not demonstrated that they are a truly open democratic society and have failed to respond to almost all of the requests from the EU. This statement: "members that are demolishing the credibility of the Union by trying to renege on their commitment to negotiate in good faith with Turkey." does not help to bolster their cause. This is in strong contrast to Romania and Bulgaria who have complied with all requests from the EU and are now active member nations.

I must agree with AMviennaVA:
"Membership in the EU is NOT a right. It is a privilege granted by the members of the EU, based on agreed upon conditions and schedules."
Turkey has not demonstrated that they are a truly open democratic society and have failed to respond to almost all of the requests from the EU. this statement: "members that are demolishing the credibility of the Union by trying to renege on their commitment to negotiate in good faith with Turkey." does not help to bolster their cause. This is in strong contrast to Romania and Bulgaria who have complied with all requests from the EU and are now active member nations.

Give me a break, any time a country moves in the direction of Islamic rule there should be cause for concern. Let’s put aside what we view as Western economic interests. This religion is inherently based on the abuse of woman and using violence to rule the world. By comparing Turkey to Saudi Arabia the author reveals just how bad things really are. If Turkey wants to be in the EU then they should come up with a better argument than "We are no worse than Saudi Arabia" The Author also seems to have selective amnesia about the other reasons cited for not allowing Turkey into the EU. What about their continuing reluctance to even admit the existence of the Armenian Genocide, let alone the fact that they orchestrated it. Can you imagine if Germany denied the existence of the Holocaust?

Give me a break, any time a country moves in the direction of Islamic rule there should be cause for concern. Let’s put aside what we view as Western economic interests. This religion is inherently based on the abuse of woman and using violence to rule the world. By comparing Turkey to Saudi Arabia the author reveals just how bad things really are. If Turkey wants to be in the EU then they should come up with a better argument than "We are no worse than Saudi Arabia" The Author also seems to have selective amnesia about the other reasons cited for not allowing Turkey into the EU. What about their continuing reluctance to even admit the existence of the Armenian Genocide, let alone the fact that they orchestrated it. Can you imagine if Germany denied the existence of the Holocaust?

I think it's refreshing for the Post to publish responsible points of view that expand the readers' perspectives on world issues such as the recent Turkish elections. This column has added significant breadth to my understanding of this and other Islamic viewpoints. Hopefully, we as a culture can continue to learn and reach out, while isolating and marginalizing extremists (from all cultures). So much of our media focuses on fear, intolerance and a crises mentality rather than diligence, enlightenment and inter-cultural growth.

Ben Graham,You say: "The land sales brought profits to the sellers who were selling what was then wasteland."
This is the big lie promoted by jews to justify their historical theft of Palestine: Palestine was always the land of milk and honey from times imemorial and since the Cananite Arabs settled it and built Jerusalem "Yabous" five thousand years ago before the jews ever existed. If Palestine was such a "Wasteland" where did those millions of Palestinian refugees come from?

You are way off the mark and you are not qualified to rewrite our history-we know better.

Until recently, the socio-economic development path of Turkey was similar to Latin American countries rather than the countries with Moslem majorities in Middle East or other parts of the World. This was true, in particular, for the second half of the 20th century when religion did not play a central role in Turkish politics (at least not more than in Latin American countries). The level of economic development in Turkey was comparable to Latin America. Turkey’s development path was similar to Latin America, periods of rising popular left movements, emerging radical democracies, followed by violently repressive military coups (implemented in collaboration with imperialism). The last two decades of the 20th century, Turkey was subject to the same neoliberal policies imposed by IMF and World Bank as Latin America. Turkey experienced deep financial crisis caused by the neoliberal policies as Latin America. The military coup of 1980 by crushing violently the strong labor unions and the Turkish left prepared the conditions for implementation of the largest structural adjustment program of the World Bank at the time. Of course, Latin American left also experienced similar violent repressions. The question is then to ask why Turkey did not experience the growth of the anti-neoliberal popular movements and the leftward shift of Latin America in the last decade. I think, here the Islamist played a pivotal role. They took advantage of the vacuum created by the defeat of the labor in 1980 coup. Islamists attracted the dissent to the neoliberal policies on their side and used religion to pacify farmers and workers, who were hurt the most by these neoliberal policies. Today, AKP is becoming a formidable force in Turkish politics by pursuing neoliberalism, it is promoting the direct interests of both international and national financial capital and at the same time keeping the working people, who were hurt the most by these policies, in check using religion.

Frank Collins:

You post this excerpt everywhere. Is this all you have to say, Frank? Any ideas of your own, man?

if you are islamic and follow the koran you want this:
The Hadith No. 284, The Muslim, volume one, says that any Jew or Christian, who heard of Muhammad but did not convert to Islam, and died in disbelief, would rot in hell! Thus Islam withdraws from all Jews and Christians the right to believe in their faiths, and practice them as such.
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)
Here those Jews and Christians, who spurn Islam, have been lumped together with the idolators such as the Hindus, and classified as 'the worst of creatures'. Therefore the Koran commands:
"O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..." (V: The Table: 60)
"The true believers say: Has not God ordered a chapter that commands the holy war" (Sura 47:22); or elsewhere: "Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, imprison them, besiege them, ambush them" (Sura 9:5); and, "Make war on unbelievers" (Sura 9:29). "When you come upon unbelievers, massacre them, tighten the bands of the captives that you will have taken. Then you will set them free, or you will release them for a ransom" (Sura 8:57).
"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:57). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:37).
"Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:22). THIS ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE PEACE SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE WAR AGAIN LATER.
4.89": They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
"4.90": Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
"4.91": You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority."

is this moderate?

Congratulations to the Turkish nation.

All this because of head scarves?

Never in the course of human politics have so many worried so much over so little.

Mr. Asim:

I think that your remarks are tangential in relationship to Mr. Ozel's post. I am responding, not out disrespect, but rather out of disbelief.

With due regard to your feelings about Jews, Ottoman Empire history, and me, I think that your feelings are in conflict with facts.

The land sales by Ottoman Turks and Arabs to Jews and Jewish agencies were a matter of Ottoman Empire public records. The Ottoman Empire recorded and taxed the land sales. The land sales brought profits to the sellers who were selling what was then wasteland. The land sales also brought needed tax revenues to the Ottoman Empire. Although the Ottoman Empire may then have been the "Sick Man of Europe", it had a bureaucracy that was happy to collect conveyance taxes.

In addition to respecting the long-standing Jewish communities that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire, the Ottoman Empire allowed Jews to return. My recollection is that their large-scale return started in the late 1800's and did not start with the British defeat of the Ottoman Empire and German forces in 1917. Last, one can be a non-Jew and understand these facts. The Ottoman Turks and British certainly did.

Best regards.

Ben Graham,
Turkish democracy is not about nor is it desgined for your comfort or the comfort of other jews.It is the business of the Turkish people to practice Islam-the Islamic faith,culture and history in Turkey are deeply rooted for nearly a thousand years;over eighty years of Attaturk military atheist dictatorship failed to uproot Islam from the souls of the Turkish people.

The Ottomon Empire never allowed the jews to settle in Palestine at all-especially Sultan Abdul Hamid-a reason of grand consipricy by the Donoma jews of Salonik to get rid of him along with a repression of Islam in Turkey using Attaturk as a tool.It was Britain that set up the zionist state in the heart of Arab world.

The Ottoman empire sheltered the jews before and after 1492,when Catholic Spain imposed the infamous inquisition mainly on Arab and Spanish Muslims but also on jews; Arab Muslim Spain treated the jews very decently and gave them their golden age;however the jews paid back the Arab Muslims treacherously:they stole Palestine and turned millions of Palestinians Arabs into refugees for the past 60 years.

The AK's land slide victory is an historical milestone, a significant socio-political development and an unequivocal proof that Islam and liberal democracy are compatible. The AK is a savvy and wise lot and they won the elections strictly on the merits of their performance: ethics and credibility, economic and political achievement especially their full commitment to liberal democracy.

This is really a fresh breath of air not for Turkey only but for the entire Arab and Muslim world to emulate the good Turkish example.

The Attaturk model failed miserably: since 1923, it achieved nothing but a secular dictatorship based on anti-religion-where as a true liberal democracy as the case is with European/Western model is based not only on separation of church and state but the protection and freedom of religion. Clearly this victory is a proof that a Muslim can be both a Muslim and a democrat.

The AK has done in a few years what the secular military editorship could not do at the barrel of a gun for over eighty years. AK implemented true liberal democracy-meaning separation of Mosque and state and yet a protector of the freedom of religion. The so called secularists were so insecure they made an issue of even what a woman puts on her head and not what is inside it.

The Turkish military establishment is a mortal threat to true liberal democracy in Turkey. The AK victory should once and for all put an end to the military's interference in politics-they should, as the case is in any true democracy, stay in their barracks and receive orders from the elected civilian government.

If European intransigence persists in blocking Turkey's membership to EU, Turkey should turn its face towards the Muslim world particularly its Arab neighbors and jointly create such a productive synergy.

The US continues to play a double game: it blindly supports the racist jewish theocracy in Palestine against those who resist its 60-year occupation and call them terrorists but not when it comes to Kurdish terrorists who have no excuse for their terrorism in Turkey as they can freely vote-unlike the case with israel who keeps millions of Palestinians in a big concentration camp called West Bank/Gaza. This is called self-defense for the zionist state and it is ok but not for Turkey when it tries to chase the Kurdish terrorists in hot pursuit-noting that Turkey stood shoulder to shoulder with the US/West for 50 years during the cold war.

Thank you Mr. Ozel for the article. Your opinions are very good, specially for non-Turkey people because we can see more clearly situation about AKP and other movements in country.

The old adage, 'it's not the religion, stupid,' applies here. AKP received more votes than all others combined! And you can't blame that on Islam. AKP is fast becoming a mainstream party!

How AKP and its 'leaders,' handle this 'mandate,' and what they choose to do with it becomes ever more important, especially given the fact that a 'moderate' Islam may not exist within a 'perceived' Islam.

Maybe Islam is suffering from the 'Hyundai' crisis. No matter how much they try to introduce a luxury line for the elite demographic within their customer base, it is after all still a Hyundai.

Maybe a name change is necessary in this case for a new start. Of the 'real' Islam by any other name will be the 'religion' that we all believe in.

It's time for the 'moderates' to rise up against fundamentalism. And AKP is proof (so far) that fears of radicalism spreading its ills using democracy as its cover up is unfounded!

www.TalkTurkey.us

Musa Karabey, thank you very much for your thoughtful remarks.

From you I learned about about the positive comments of the Armenian Church patriarch in Istanbul. As a U.S. admirer of Turkey and of the Armenian community, I think that such a comment speaks volumes about a future reapproachment between Turks and Armenians.

As an American with an interest in Turkey but without much solid knowledge past the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, I read articles like this because I am trying to understand more fully what appears to be a vibrant and compelling culture and society.

Please believe that not all of us want to understand other countries merely in order to manipulate them. I would not argue that many nations upon which U.S. foreign policy becomes focused do not end up better off. And yet, I do not think that hoping Americans stop taking an interest in other countries, especially those outside of the developed west, is a useful response. We need every American to consider it a duty to be informed and make an effort to understand others before passing judgment or making political/policy decisions.

I personally find extreme secularism in some EU countries (France's ban on the headscarf in public schools comes to mind) to be equally troubling as the military-enforced secularism in Turkey which has appeared to marginalize most of its people. On the other hand, I cannot imagine that a radical Islamist state would be any better at representing as complex and heterogeneous a society as Turkey's. I enjoy following Turkey's politics because the cultural shifting that is underway shows promise of settling into a model that truly could be held up as a positive example to nations across the globe.

American ignorance about Turkey is mind-boggling.

Someone above compares the AK to Hamas. Don't you know, that under AK rule, Turkey has strengthened its already considerable military and diplomatic ties with Israel?

I shudder to think of Americans meddling in Turkey while they know as little about it as they did about Iraq in 2003. I've even heard many Americans who think the US should help the Iraqi Kurds bite off chunks of southern Turkey. Thank God America has run out of soldiers.

Please, just don't even mention Turkey, Americans, don't even THINK about Turkey.

I and millions of others shudder when we hear bloody Americans talking about countries that are dear to us. The Americans break everything they touch.

Just leave Turkey alone.

Under the AK govt since 2003, headscarf wearing has fallen from 19% to 15% of women.

The proportion of Turks who want some Sharia in their laws has fallen from 21% to 9%.

More women are now in Parliament.

The economy is booming.

Kurdish rights have advanced faster than under any previous govt.

The army's power to interfere in daily govt has been sharply curtailed.

This is why the Army and the "secular" ruling elite dislikes the AKP.

What I can't understand is Americans, who seem to prefer military rule over Turkey to a state which chooses its govts by election.

Don't you understand that kind of govt is what creates radicalism? As soon as the religious Moslems stop feeling threatened, they relax.

WJ: I agree. There is considerable discrepancy in the view of many.

Anyone who believes that the victory of the AKP signals the start of a theocratic government in Turkey shoud, for consistency, believe that any time a Christian Democratic party wins an election elsewhere in Europe it signals the same thing.

(A small response to Ben Graham): You are right about the litmus tests. There is, however, a point to consider for all readers: AKP did not come out of the blue before the recent elections. It has been in power for more than four years. It can even be said that they were more powerful in the parliament than they are now. All the litmus tests that you have mentioned have been done, and as far as I could see, AKP passed all of them. For example, five years ago, the number of people who were imprisoned against freedom of speech were about 300; now, there is none. Before the elections, the patriarch of the Armenian Church in Istanbul clearly supported AKP for its liberal policies. Supporters of the idea that secularism is at risk failed to produce any evidence from what AKP has done in the last five years.
And lastly, a note: AKP's leader, Prime Minister Erdogan, never said or even implied that AKP is an Islamic or Islamist party. He even expressed that they are not a right-wing party. He said, they are at "the center of the community".

An interesting piece. I do take exception, however, to the line about EU "members that are demolishing the credibility of the Union by trying to renege on their commitment to negotiate in good faith with Turkey.". Membership in the EU is NOT a right. It is a privilege granted by the members of the EU, based on agreed upon conditions and schedules. So far Turkey constantly tries to interpret and renegotiate what has been agreed to. No other member has put the EU through this exercise. It is therefore no surprise that there are second thoughts on the part of EU members.

Who do journalists always make excuses when Muslims vote for a certain party that is against Western values.

When the palestinians voted for hamas, all I ever heard was that the vote was against corruption, not a vote for terrorism.

Now when turkey votes against secularism, some moron comes along and makes excuses for that.

It's clear that Muslims cannot live under Western values. Just accept it.

Thank you Mr. Ozel for the article. I hope that your opinions are sound.

What would give me discomfort, if I were a Turk who wishes the separation of mosque and state, are the following questions. Will a ruling Islamic political party favor, promote, or impose religious thought and behavior on its citizens? What will happen to citizens who criticize those who act in the name of Islam or criticize a text of the Koran? Will there be self-censorship by citizens who fear a violent response by those who act in the name of Islam, be they private citizens or state representatives? Will there be an independent judiciary that protects the rights of the press and individuals in these circumstances?

These anti-clerical rights currently exist in Turkey in large part due to the de-Islamization efforts of the founder of your republic, Kemal Attaturk.

The ultimate litmus test as to whether Turkey will remain a moderate Islamic country (by definition a country that separates religion from acts of state) will likely be the treatment of secular Muslims who object to the introduction of Islamic practices and perspectives as part of state activities.

The initial litmus test, however, will be the AKP's treatment of Jews in Turkey and in Israel. Traditionally, that relationship has been sound (e.g., the welcoming of Jews expelled from Spain, allowing the massive sales of land to returning Jews in what is now Israel during the time of the Ottoman empire, and the good relations with Israel). If the AKP wishes scapegoats, it will find them nearby in Istanbul and Tel-Aviv, and that action will provide some insight as to whether this AKP regime is moderate or not. If, and a big if, so done to the Jews, then the secular Muslim Turks will be next.

My best wishes as you are at the vortex of a politcal-religious experiment in your country. Hopefully the conflicting demands will be handled with tolerance.

Just wait, till they screw things up for us in Iraq. After all the lives that were given to secure the current situation, and billions of dollars wasted.
Why should we adopt Turkey and its problems . . .

hmm, watching Al Jazeera coverage on the night of the elections, one of the Turkish guest commentators could not repress his glee at the inevitable -- according to him -- constitutional reforms to make Turkey more Islamic. "They have it drafted it out already. It's a done deal," he said.

I personally doubt that these elections are NOT about secularism's survival. In fact, I see them as one of the last nails in the coffin of secularism, and I don't necessarily blame Erdogan or even AKP for its demise. It's just demographics.

Sectors of society where men decide who their women may have sex with (and whom to kill when they disobey), what size cloth they have to put on their head, and whether or not they can work or study, reproduce like rabbits, 12 or 18 children to a family. Meanwhile, those who don't treat women as chattel have self-exterminating birth rates.

So, religious Turks have been pushing, from east to west, to the point where the only remaining option for people on the sliver of the Egean coast - the only area that voted secular -- is to start swimming to Greece...

This election was, as they say, the tipping point. In 10 years, we may see a candidate come to power denouncing Erdogan as a puppet of the West, a sell-out infidel, not really Islamic enough for a population that has gathered enough confidence in its regligiousness to put an end to this blip in history, this fantasy of Ataturk. Make Turks into Europeans? Come on, seriously...

Turkish people are not intrinsically democratic in that they need a strong figure to tell them what to do, most effectively under threat of physical violence. Whomever holds power will be obeyed, and if the power shifts to Islam (a process that is being accelerated thanks to the European Union accession process and to the foreign policy of the U.S., who will take an ally at any cost), well, then that's who they will obey.

No doubt recent elections in Turkey were about the satisfactory economic performance of the AK party but other factors should not be overlooked. AK party represents the culture, way of life and customs of the millions of Turks while the so called secular parties and the establishment represents western values.
Turkey represents a good example that an Islamic party can combine progress and welfare in its program and can wriggle out of the clutches of the vested interests of the establishment. This example is relevant for Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Algeria - countries where Islamic groups are mature and strong enough to set another example as that of Turkey.

No doubt recent elections in Turkey were about the satisfactory economic performance of the AK party but other factors should not be overlooked. AK party represents the culture, way of life and customs of the millions of Turks while the so called secular parties and the establishment represents western values.
Turkey represents a good example that an Islamic party can combine progress and welfare in its program and can wriggle out of the clutches of the vested interests of the establishment. This example is relevant for Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Algeria - countries where Islamic groups are mature and strong enough to set another example as that of Turkey.

I just want to quickly say thank you for providing some perspective on the matter. Before reading this I might have considered the question your comments regard as fair and useful. I hope more people take to heart that we can be too caught up in our views to wonder whether our questions imply reasonable truths.

When explaining Justice and Development Party (AKP) you are saying "The vote revealed the AKP as the only party whose support is not confined to a specific region or social class;.." and I agree with that.

But when it comes to explaining Nationalist Action Party (MHP) you are suggesting that they got only xenophobic votes.

I think this statement is a very unfair, unfortunate and anti-democratic one.

Everybody should try to avoid elienating people because of the parties they vote for. All the parties are part of the democracy whether you like or dislike.

When explaining Justice and Development Party (AKP) you are saying "The vote revealed the AKP as the only party whose support is not confined to a specific region or social class;.." and I agree with that.

But when it comes to explaining Nationalist Action Party (MHP) you are suggesting that they got only xenophobic votes.

I think this statement is a very unfair, unfortunate and anti-democratic one.

Everybody should try to avoid elienating people because of the parties they vote for. All the parties are part of the democracy whether you like or dislike.