Turkey is nothing more than the 'middle west'

Turkey is nothing more than the 'middle west'

LOL: "those Mongols"
Ever heard of Ghengiz Khan ?
The Khan of all Khans.
The world has yet to produce another man like him.
You think you can name someone that can be compared to him!
Can you imagine yourself standing up to the Great Khan. Think about it.
Greater mortals have knelt before him.
I mean no disrespect I but I think you would be incontinent(for both #1 and #2) in his presence.
This topic is about Turkey and Russia ,so confine your discussion to the relevant topic.
Sometimes I wonder: ignorance is really a bliss.

Given the recent problems between Turkey and the US (support for the Iraq intervention, the inability of the US to reduce Kurd cross-border attacks on Turkey, the difficulty Turkey has in entering the Common Market)it is not unexpected that the educated and/or merchant class would flirt with Russia. And given Russian attempts to consolidate its influence/power on or near its borders, it not unexpected that Russia would seek to exploit any Turkish-US rift. But I suspect the Turkish government is using the flirtation to get what it really wants: for the US to pay more serious attention to its concerns and to start treating it as the serious ally the White House claims that Turkey is.

Most of the Turks I've met are easily described as primitive barbarians. Sorry, but the EU, Arabs, nor Russians want anything to do with those Mongols.

you're all doomed.

For quite some time now, Turkey has been one of the most important customers of the US military complex, and no less than a US bastion in the region. It seems to me, therefore, that it will take more than a translation of one of President Putin's speeches being posted on the Turkish general staff's website, and many Turks siding with Russia in its quarrels with the West, to change that...

What a stupid article! It is wishful thinking rather than political analysis. The simple truth is that the Turks are despised by the Orthodox Christians! Russians are Orthodox. The Turks' paranoic behaviour , pendling from delusions of grandeur to persecution mania smells trouble! Sooner or later Turkey will explode! Russia has no interest whatsoever to stop them from committing suicide!They were the "sick man of Europe" and became "the blight of Asia". They cannot change!

Turkey has been its own worst enemy. Its parnoid behavior and its colonial ambitions in Cyprus have lead it to a dead end. Only an embarassing retreat can secure its relationship with Europe. Second, Turkey's decision to not support the US in going into Iraq. The Turks have cut themselves out of the post-invasion Iraq. Also by turning their back on the US, Turkey showed the limites to its value to the US in a crisis. The Kurds are very smart. They now have temporary protection within Iraq to further their designs of a Kurdish nation. The Kurdish insurgency will only increase in Turkey (and Iran) as long as the US is in Iraq. This will lead to further human rights violations by the Turkish military and futhter impediments to their relations with Europe. How far can the Russia-Turkish relationship go? I doubt that Turkey would like to see Greece with European support and US weapons sitting across the Aegean sea while it will look to Russia for support. Turkey would have to be mad to see this as their future.

The Turks im sure have their own aspirations and will pursue them. The Turks have had not only the biggest empires but quite possibly the most, this alone tells me not to count them out.

Being Greek and learning about the Turkish liberation and Ataturk, these guys if not suppressed will cause problems for the world in the future.

Sorry, Liz, but I just have to ask where you got the idea that the modern EU bears ANY resemblence to the Roman empire. First, the two entities have totally different governmental systems: a fractious coalition in the EU versus a hegemonic oligarchy in Rome (prior to about 42 BC, and a hereditary monarchy afterwards). Then, they have totally different geopolitical foci: Rome in the Italian peninsula and the former greek city-states, the EU in northern and western Europe (an area that was a cultural and economic backwater under the Romans. Finally, the primary means of expansion and cultural emphasis differs drastically: Rome produced legions of the finest heavy infantry in world history, and her armies defeated all comers on three continents - by contrast, the EU has trouble fielding a short division without weeks of whining about who's going to foot the bill and which member nation the half-trained conscript troops are going to come from.
Finally, while the causes of the decline of the Roman Empire are widely debated, there's absolutely no grounds for arguing that the integration of eastern europe into the Corpus Romanorum did in the Empire. In fact, Rome continued to flourish and expand dramatically for several centuries after the conquests of Dacia, Greece, Macedonia, and Thrace (the modern areas of greece, bulgaria and the southern balkans). What did in the Roman ultimately was bad luck - successive waves of barbarian migrations out of the central asian steppes (the goths, visigoths, vandals, huns, etc). By that analogy, the greatest threat faced by the EU should be Russia, rather than Turkey or the Balkans. In fact, the EU is probably her own worst enemy, and the member-nation most likely to wield the suicidal knife is France (which refuses to abide by any EU rules it dislikes), not Turkey.

Turkey was not there for us when we needed them. It's time to only help those who can help us. If they want to fall into Russia's orbit - let them! No loss for us.

The EU is a big bully co- operation- if Turkey and Russia agree, there is nothing the EU can do about any aspects of their interests. Russia would dropp its support for Southern Cyprus and Turkey its support for Czechnia. Common intersts would prevail. The EU is the failed re-invention of the old Roman Empire - which failed when the East part of Europe was integrated, the same will happen again.

Is the EU asking Turkey anything that isn't the simple meeting of the basic bottom floor human rights? Turkey's treatment of women in fact, though not law, has some serious issues, and there are a host of other human rights issues left free speech about Turkey's past. The EU would be sucidal for its own culture to lower the bar any more, and maybe should raise much higher for admission for Turkey and everyone else. If you aren't a Western Type Democracy, you don't have a place in the EU. Doesn't neccessarily mean you are a bad country, but to join the EU you have to fit in.

Andrew: Indeed, there is much irony there, that I am sure has gone way over the heads of the 'experts' in the US, especially.

Robert59: You make a very, very old and outdated argument. All the EU is asking of Turkey is to be like the other members. Nothing more, and nothing less. Bush43 has not really dropped the ball with Turkey. By now there are several glaring points of divergence between the interests of the US and Turkey: (1) The Kurds of N.Iraq where frankly there is little overlap of interests; (2) Control of access to Russian oil&gas - we want to limit them, and Turkey wants to be the conduit. Let us also not forget that in 2003 Turkey actively turned her back to the US on Iraq.

The upshot is that interests of the US and Turkey are diverging, and everyone must recognize that, and proceed accordingly.

I remain unconvinced that Turkey belongs in the EU - not for prejudice on my part, but I do not see the mix with the EU as correct. Putin's lust for a KGB state should keep Turks alert. However, Turkey's human right record is dismal so they may be oblivious to what's happening there since Putin's rise. (Though, as an American, that is now difficult for me to say based on what my country has done to and in Iraq and our secret torture prisons around the world.)

If the Turks think they have a trustworthy relationship with the Russians, then they are already lost.
A glance back in history would show that when any countries "become partners" with Russia, they end up part of Russia.
I would definitely stay friends with the West, because we are the ones who will end up saving your butts in a couple decades when you look up and say "Toto, we aren't in Turkey anymore."
Good luck friends.

Given what they perceive to be the arrogance of the loyal Bushies, not to mention their double standards, many side with Russia in its quarrels with the West. That is because Russia is often right.

It's easy for me to understand why the TGS and many Turks would look favorably to Russia. The EU has set the bar Turkey is to meet unrealistically high.

It's done so from a combination of fear, prejudice, and ignorance. Turkey has its problems, but what nation doesn't? Instead of seeing Turkey as a glass half full, the EU sees it as half empty. They discount Turkey's potential.

Russia is more pragmatic. It sees in Turkey a vibrant nation, with a young energetic population and it's obvious to anyone who has traveled throughout and lived in Turkey like I have it is a very Westernized nation. What many Turks are fighting for is freedom of religious expression, not an Islamist state. Others are protesting Western excesses and many are protesting a government that wraps itself in the flag of secularism, but one more interested in preserving the status quo and its hold on the power structure.

Erdogan and the new industrialists are breaking that grip, but it's a slow process. The U.S. should be pouring both financial and intellectual capital into Turkey and rewarding that nation for its support throughout the Cold War.

Once again, Bush 43, drops the ball.

*shrug* If the Turks want to cozy up to an Orthodox power that considers Constantinople its rightful property, hey, go for it...