France gave Israel atomic bombs and don't you forget it. A foolish and suicidal move. Never give atomic bombs to a country that hates most of the world, blaming most countries for trying to exterminate the ethno-religious group that dominates it. There is something more dangerous than a wounded animal; a wounded animal with a nuclear arsenal.

The worst thing in all this is that we in the so-called West, the so-called International Community, are pandering to the insane tangents that the Israelis have travelled down. The quest for Absolute Security that is absolutely required, no matter what the cost, no matter the 'collatoral damage' in terms of even millions of deaths, because we are supposedly feeling guilty about the Holocaust. We are encouraging the worst from these people.

It's as if you have someone going down the road to madness raving about this and that, and is surrounded by yes-men who not only say "yes" but encourage him further. The madman starts killing people and destroying his neighbour's houses and continues to get pandered to even more and more. Normality to this person and to his entourage is being a crazed serial killer. Those who observe from afar the goings on and conclude that the serial killer is a mad murderer are deemed to be crazy for not understanding that what he does is normal and that those who think he should be restrained are the real crazy killers. This is what's going on with Israel.

Hamas should give up the gun? What an interesting suggestion. Israel should give up all its guns, tanks, submarines, fighter planes, atomic bombs, its entire arsenal, also...

Then again, we can always threaten to starve the Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland until the IRA recognises Northern Ireland's "right to exist". Notice that this foolish demand is never made of the IRA. I wonder why? Perhaps it is because the British are actually serious about peace there, unlike the Israelis and the so-called International Community who demand nothing but total surrender and the overturn of the post-World War II world order that bans the conquest, absorption and re-population of territory based on ethnicity.

This is a wonderful development for all parties involved, with the exception of the dead ones (and Hamas)... If the rest of the world rushes to the aid of Fatah, Hamas will eventually lose legitimacy and collapse (or at least lose their political power). At best, they will retain control of Gaza, for all the good that will do them. It doesn't have anything that could make it a viable nation-state, save force of arms, and even that is pretty laughable. All the international money that was spread out between the West Bank'ers and the Gazan's will stay in the West Bank, thereby, hopefully, creating a financially stable economy that Hamas will beg to be a part of. The only thing that keeps Hamas alive is the threat of international outcry against Israel if they just moved in and crushed them. Israel crushed Egypt, Jordan, and Syria's combined military forces once, and I have no doubt that they can do it again. What makes anyone think that if the gloves were off that they couldn't handle a few thousand undisciplined street thugs with RPG's? The funny thing, is that Israel doesn't even need us. The have a huge military-industrial complex of their own. They even developed nuclear weapons on their own... So, with that said, go ahead Hamas, do what it is we all know you want to do. Attack Israel in force. "Try" to "push them into the sea".

You have to remember that Hamas didn't win the election so much as Fatah lost it. Fatah had proven itself both incapable of governing and incapable of changing into something that could govern. Hamas, at least, had working social programs, so, in what I believe was an act of desperation, the Palestinian people elected them to power, apparently thinking some change was better than none.

Prior to all this, alot of the "peace process" seemed to be Israel and the US trying to beat Arafat's cronies into something resembling a working government. The election and events since suggest a general lack of success on this score. They stonewalled rather than change, they stonewalled sharing power with Hamas, and now they think they think they've got the perfect excuse to escape Hamas altogether.

And, since Hamas is in fact run by an embarassing group of terrorist thugs, the Western powers are buying into this dubious reasoning, big time. You can practically hear the sigh of relief as they do a big old group hug with Abbas.

But no one seems to remember that, while much more palatable ideologically, Fatah is about as useful as socks on a fish. Until that changes, nothing is going to get any better in Palestine.

I don't agree that we should deal with Hamas any longer. We have been trying to do that for some time but they are the ones who were intransigent. No, now that they've taken up the gun they have no more part. Cut a deal with the West Bank, let Israeli forces go in and clean up Gaza, give it to Fatah. Let them deal with whatever is left of Hamas. Hamas is only an Iranian surrogate anyway.

It not surprising from you, I regret to say that, however South Korea and Japan elites have a huge tendency to embrace blindly the American Foreign policies...Beginning by the UN Secretary.
Well, Who to blame?
Well, the bush's Administration and the EU!
They championed Democracy, unless you do not share their values, Democracy become irrelevant. Hamas has been chosen by the Palestine’s electorate.
The West decided to suffocate their actions because they dislike their neighbors-Israel
Thus, the overwhelm vote become obsolete.
Poor Palestine…

Why not hand over Gaza back to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan, both of which have functioning governments, with the inhabitants becoming full citizens of these countries (not Lebanon style)? These countries ran them for a couple of decades - an independent Palestine has never existed. The alternatives seem to be a failed state split into Fatahstan and Hamastan, or a return to full Israeli occupation. Israel will not negotiate with a party that actively seeks its annihilation, nor will the US fund it; meanwhile, the Palestinians voted for them and Fatah seems hopelessly corrupt anyway. How a viable Palestinian state is supposed to emerge from this is beyond me, regardless of who is to blame in the first place or what could've been done differently.

The occupation has not made Israel safer and it has only inflamed the passions of the Palestinians and the Arab world. Before the Hamas victory in elections, Israel had ample opportunity to negotiate with the moderate Palestinians, but instead chose to stonewall the process and continue to build settlements, settlements that violate the letter and the spirit of the peace process. However, due to their lobbying efforts and media domination they have been able to present the occupation as being humane and in the best interest of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are too barbaric to be able to govern themselves and require the benevolent assistance of the Israelis to save them from themselves. This picture will again be played out in the main stream press as the violence intensifies.

Of course throughout this process what won’t be discussed are the efforts of the Israelis and the US to destabilize the Palestinians and to keep them splintered so they cannot mount an effective defense against the media savvy Israelis. Thus allowing them to present the Palestinians as uncivilized and therefore unworthy of having a place at the bargaining table. This has allowed the Israelis to continue to fortify their positions and settlements in the occupied territory. The Israelis and the US will disavow any complicity in the violence that is now taking place in Gaza, not accepting that this violence is in direct response to the fact that the lawfully elected government is being kept from governing by the interference of Washington and Tele Aviv.

False history gets made all day, any day,
the truth of the new is never on the news - Adrienne Rich

http://thedisputedtruth.blogspot.com/

for all of the times that the palestinian people have been "herded" from area of the near middle east to another the only result has been to further the conflagration of the palestinian question. as we have seen the recent developments in the lebanese refugee camps as well as gaza only serve notice that the refusal of the u.s. and israel to recognize a democratically elected govt. unfortunately, the election did not yield the results that the zionists had hoped for. this was only a direct result of the refusal of both the u.s. and israel to seize upon opportunities when they arose. beyond that, the deal struck between bush and sharon reached in the year 2000 to essentially carve up the middle east to their liking resulted in putting placing the entire region on knifes edge. if the isrealis believe that they now have the opportunity to eliminate hamas at this juncture one can only wish them the best of luck. the two rockets that were fired into n. israel from lebanon day before yesterday can properly be termed warning shots. the security situation in israel can now be deemed to be dismal at best, and best be described as tenuous. this situation would be seen as one of their own making. symbolicaly they even desperately clutch to memory of sharon himself as he once was in a bid to preserve the symbolism of the past failures in achieving even a partial peace. by retreating from gaza and parts of the west bank sharon hoped to clear the way for a new isreali offensive to force the palestinians to retreat to jordan thereby handing off the palestians once again to become someone elses liability. it will not work. whether it be hamas or fatah the palestinians will stand and fight where they now reside. rather than an opportunity for vengeance, the israelis will shortly see an increase in violence and possibly a new intafadeh.

Shim Jae Hoon is forgetting the fact the Hamas won the election. For the last 16 months, Hamas has shown their effort to govern with dialogue, compromise. It was the Fatah that has refused to transfer power on the backs of the willful Western governments, and equally ignorant media of theirs.

Shim Jae Hoon is yet again suggesting an easy way out for the West. For it is a facile observation, as true as it is trite, that there is nothing the West will do to change their cogency. But alas, isn't he supposed to be a Eastern thinker?

As mentioned by many in the comments above, the Palestinians did democratically elect a government. The fact that they elected murderous thugs, with the stated goal of returning Gaza back to the stone age is apparently what they wanted. Now, they have no excuses to whine and blame the consequences on everyone else. In typical Palestinian fashion, they continue to act in ways that adversely affect themselves and then expect everyone to bail them out. Time to grow up and take responsiblity.

This predicament demonstrates how difficult it can be to correct an initial mistake. It's hard to believe this began just 90 years ago.

Beginning with the Balfour Declaration of 1917: "His Majesty would view with favor the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Said homeland not to interfere with the rights of the Palestinian people....". Right.

Then in 1947, Truman was forced to go along with the partition of Palestine by the pressure of an election. He was being killed in the polls by Dewey and public opinion, which did not want to go along with Harry's preferred approach of accepting 500,000 Jewish immigrants into the U.S.

In hindsight, would that he had stuck to his guns. The buck should have stopped there.

To Sam & Kwasi,

the problem with PALISRA is that it proposes to unite two peoples who have separate national aspirations. It is a shotgun wedding when what is really needed is a divorce, a.k.a. the creation of a separate Palestinian state sooner rather than later.

When Israel was founded, hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from the Arab countries came to the new Jewish state precisely to have a change of destiny. They had had enough of dhimmitude.

Conversely, when the dhimmi shoe is on the other foot, (i.e. living inder Israeli occupation), Palestinians chafe.

Slightly off this initial topic, I have always wondered why a future Palestinian state is assumed to have no Jews in its population, where no reasonable person would propose that Israel, the state of the Jews, should rid itself of its non-Jewish population. My daydreamy solution is that each state have a sizeable majority - Israel 80% Jewish, Palestine 80% Palestinian, as well as minority populations. A minority presence, ideally, would enrich society & prevent xenophobia. Nationalism is not racism, and both Palestinian & Jewish nationalisms deserve respect. Hopefully the outcome of two states will be both geographical & social boundaries that replace enmeshment with mutual respect, meaningful cooperation, and friendship.

As usual, this is a very complicated issue. Unlike some others on these posts, I do not claim to "have the answer". This has been going on for decades and will probably be a problem for our (and the Israel and Palestine) children and grandchildren. As for the person that said that Israel has been "the most racist regimes on earth"...give me a break. They do not tell the world to convert and become Jewish or die. Radical Islamists, however, openly chant that mantra throughout the world. Israel does not call for the total elimination of any peoples.
At any rate, like it or not, all governments, at one time or another, have become "strange bedfellows" with less than ideal partners in hopes that the means will justify the end. In the past, the Fatah and Arafat were considered the obstacle to peace and indeed the terrorist organization in that region. At the time, it was true. Now,in todays world and the rise of Radical Islam, Hamas has become the bigger problem with Fatah becoming the lesser of two evils. When Fatah and Hamas were intermingled, it was hard to differentiate between the two. Now that Hamas is concentrated in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank area, at least it is obvious whom is who. Suddenly it is not only Israel and the west against this strange mixture, fatah is finding itself suddenly aligned on the same side as Israel and the west. Because of this, there is a small window of opportunity to actually make some progress on long term solutions. If Hamas tries to take over the entire region as one poster indicates, I believe it will be necessary for "strange beddfellows" to unite and put an end to the Hamas entity in this region. Of course this is a dangerous and desperate move, but with Iran attempting to become THE power of the middle east and considering their stated goal is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and desrtroy the United States in the long run, this may be where the battle must be fought. It is a scary procees, to say the least, but may actually turn out to be the turning point in history the people of that region has been waiting for. Of course, then again, it could just as well be the start of the final world war. It seems as if radical Islam's stated intention is to eventually fight this fight. If not in this area, anywhere else in the world. Eventually, everyone will have to come to their own conclusions as to what type of regime they want to live under and choose which side to fight for. So indeed, both sides believe "If you're not with us, you're against us". Personally, I'll take the USA and what it represents, warts and all, over a regime that wants to tell me what to believe, what to wear, what to think, and what to do every hour of every day for the rest of my life.
I realize this is a simplistic look at a very complicated problem...but those are my thoughts in a nutshell.

Funny to read that most people on this forum thinks that the recent events are bad news for Hamas. Remember that the ones who are scurrying to act quickly now are Israel and US. Once again, to me, this is merely one step towards consolidation of power by Hamas. As Mohammad Dahlan (he should know) said today: If Hamas wanted to take over West Bank, their determined forces are no match for the Fatah fighters. Remember that Chiang-Kai Shek's Nationalist Army was significantly bigger and better-armed but was no match for the determined Communist Chinese. I think it's better to start planning what Israel and US should respond when all of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem are under Hamas control.

Hamas has tried to govern according the constitution of the Palestinian Authority, but has been stymied on every front. This last development has brought out the true face of Abbas - kowtower to Israel and to the 'internationlal community' which is an euphemism for the US and its lackies. Bush is in hot water from Somalia to Pakistan, and the two-state solution is dead - having been embraced too late by the president whose embrace is the kiss of death in the Middle East. And without the two-state solution, Israel isn't viable. It may be five years, fifty or five hundred, but the people of the Middle East will remove it from the map, and there is nothing the U.S. can or should do about it.

People,

If the Palestinians, whether led by Hamas or the PLO, concentrated their blood, sweat and tears on actual nationbuilding over the past 40 plus years, the Middle East wouldn't be such a bubbling cauldron of hate and violence. They could have made Palestine a reality if they built the infrastructure and institutions instead of wasting billions of dollars and millions of manhours on "the struggle for liberation". During the Mandate years in the early to mid 20th century, the Jews had the vision to concentrate their efforts on building an actual state and all the necessary institutions as a foundation, while the Palestinian Arabs flailed about until 1967. And post 1967 the Palestinians became emboldened to take the struggle into their own hands but began a 40 year pursuit of a Palestine that could never exist next to Israel. They needed a Gandhi but got an Arafat. After Oslo in 1993, the Palestinian were given the autonomy to start building their state, but most of the money was squandered, stolen or spent on a bloated beaurocracy and over a dozen different "security" organizations. They needed a vision to join the fellowship of nations but got Hamas and a crippling 2nd Intifada in the end. You can blame Israel and the West all you want, but the Palestinians have been screwed by everyone, and most importantly, by themselves.

I have read Sam's comments on PALISRA. Sounds very much like what Colonel Gaddafi has suggested on his website - ISRATINE. I know he's not universally loved (even by me), but I have found his analysis and solution very accurate and to the point.
The current arrangement of a two-territory Palestinian state will probably be unacceptable to most Palestinians in terms of religion, geography access to resources etc. Thai will only continue to create friction because such an arrangement will always have people supporting Hamas and by default suicide bombings and rocket firing. Some Israelis might think of this this as divide and rule, but it doesn't really give Israel any security. Neither does it give the Palestinians anything that could be remotely described as a state. They are currently living in two territories.
Gaddafi's vision of Isratine may seem like utopia for now, but I believe it is the only viable a solution for the future - one territory, two states living side by side in peace and RESPECT for each other. Hamas and its philosophies can have no room in that arrangement - unless they change fundamentally.

I think the author is right. It was a pyrrhic victory. By opting to fight Fatah at the point of a gun, Hamas has delegitimized themselves.

However, it remains to be seen whether Palestinians accept Fatah assumption of government. I had to wince at the news today that Bush and Israel are giving their support to Fatah. All I could think was, "Boy, that'll go over well..."

The palestinians got the government they deserved. They elected Hamas and are now reaping the results.

PALISRA could be the magic word.
It is a sad situation that both Israelis and Palestinians have been fighting and killing each other for more than 60 years now and unfortunately, no light could be seen at the end of this dark tunnel.
The geography and demography of the area that extends between River Jordan and the Mediterranean indicate the complexity of the current situation. Every party is trying hard to grab by mere force what is in the hand of the other. Many wars have been staged and thousands of innocent lives have been shed for this purpose.
Nowadays, almost everybody is talking about setting up two countries for both Israelis and Palestinians. This simply means that the land of historical Palestine will be divided between the two parties, Israelis and Palestinians.
I doubt very much that either party will be satisfied with his share of the cake. There are chronic problems like Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, borders, water resources that nobody on earth can sort out to the satisfaction of both parties.
The short vision of setting up two separate states could sow the seeds for more bloody conflicts in the future. Nobody can guarantee or secure permanent and lasting peace under this proposition.
A far better viable solution that should satisfy both parties and put an end to all complicated issues is available. It is the establishment of one country for all on the whole territory of historical Palestine that includes the West Bank and Gaza besides Israel. Jerusalem will remain united for both parties, settlements could remain where they are now provided an appropriate compensation is made to the original land owners, natural geographical borders are already in place for the whole country, and the issue of refugees could be settled by allowing refugees to return home and to be compensated for the 60 years of misery they had to spend at refugee camps. All citizens of the new state, PALISRA (Palestine +Israel), would enjoy equal rights and bear the same responsibilities.
The newly established state, PALISRA will emerge as a prosperous and safe country within a very short period of time, and citizens of this state will learn how to respect and even cherish each other. PALIRA will become a key player and an integral part of the Middle

Until Hamas stops blaming every external group or country for their internal failures, there can be no change and no responsible government.

There is no benefit to the US in supporting Hamas, a group which endorses as policy the murder of innocent non-combatants and is willing to murder citizens of their own country over differences in policy. And no reason why Israel should support a government which states that it intends to murder every citizen of that state.

Blaming the US or Israel because Hamas doesn't know how to govern confers no benefit on the Palestinian people, nor does it accomplish anything to solve the problems which have beset the Middle East for so many years and which have cost so many innocent lives. Quit whining, grow up, join at least the 20th century, and stop killing people. Amazing things may result.

When one sees the changes in Palestinian landscape over the past 40 years, it's clear to me that Israel's strategy is failing. Whereas Hamas was bearly an entity 20 years ago, look where they are. The trend is undeniable that the future is bleak for Israel, compared to the past--with Hamas and Hezbollah. Reminds me of what happened to China from 1910 on. Pro-Western governments were corrupt and despite all-out efforts by the West, Communist Chinese took over in 1949. The language used to describe the "evil" Red Chinese is highly reminiscent of the current tone used to describe Hamas. Hamas' power base is far broader than that of Fatah and fits better with the national liberation movement. If I had to predict, Hamas will come out victorious just like the Communist Chinese prevailed over the pro-Western Chian-Kai Shek's Nationalist Chinese. Fatah people will seek refuge in Israel as the Nationalists sought refuge in Taiwan.

Several posters above mentioned that by sactioning Hamas, the US will be in effect punishing a democratically elected government. That would be true. But just because a group of people freely elect a leader, (for an obvious example, we could use Adolf Hitler, or Saddam Hussein who received 100% of the Iraqi vote), it doesn't mean the rest of the international community has to accept it. It's great that they (the Palestinians) elected a party that they want to represent them. Yay for them! Yay for the democratic process! But Hamas is still a terrorist organization. The Gazans may accept this, but the others in democratically elected countries don't have to. Period.

Hamas is the freely elected government, as people have pointed out. That does not mean that they need to be supported, or that their use of terrorism is any more legitimate. Now that they are the elected government, they may act against and attack Israel, but they are also subject to counter attacks by Israel. As a government they need to determine whether they truly want to go to war -- if so, they cannot complain about the consequences of the war.

This split between Hamas and Fatah is only great news: Hamas will keep the Gaza strip and Fatah the West Bank.

So, let Hamas and all those terrorists have the Gaza Strip and starve their population to death. By the way, the people living in there deserve that because they voted for Hamas... so, there you go, that's your government, you chose it, you keep it.

Israel just needs to surround them so nobody gets out of there; really, what's the length of Gaza's border? 40 or 50 miles Israel needs to block off? Sounds like a piece of cake for the Israeli army.

For now, Fatah and the West will keep the West Bank (which includes Jerusalem, Bethlehem and most of the holy Christian sites), which is the land that really matters anyway.

Burnum:
You are absolutely right. Hamas has every right to fight Israel.

On the other hand, they don't have the right to get mad when Israel fights back.

Ok, so I'm stupid, lol. Too bad I can't delete my last comment. Oh well. :D It happens to me alot, so I'm kinda jumpy about it, lol.

What the #%^! happened to my last comment? Gotta love censorship, lol.

in the interest of the Palestinians Hamas is 100 times better than the Corrupt Fatah or the Dahlan Gangs.

Hamas aren't a Terrorist Organization. They're a Democratically elected government fighting what they see as a oppressive government, although I disagree with their techniques, they have the right to fight the Israeli government.

It's simple really. Do as America commands, or else. You're either with us or against us. We are the mighty American Empire. It's time the rest of the world realizes that and either unites to destroy us or bows to our power. The way America is ran, there is no middle ground.

It is sad to see the blind hatred of America and the West here. Typing silly accusations in all caps makes people feel good, but it doesnt change the fact that we in the west are under no obligation to fund terrorists like Hamas.

Shim Jae Hoon as a frind of the "democratic west" --- the ones without habeas corpus, great propragators of toture, the ones [UK'USA] bal;ming everyone for their failures in Iraq, Afganistan, Somalia, Palestine, soon Pakistan, great abeters of minority abuse, especially by their dear pal Israel, proposes that the oppressed, the starved, the prisoners be "REEDUCATED", rather than offer some logical procedure that the Security Council's dicta regarding Zionist abuse of international law be forced upon the agressor, Israel.

It is so much fun when you are a spokesperson of WP's chosen elite to parrot the inhumanity of the present USA Administration. Perhaps this author will next propose another war involving the USA in the Middle East to "promote democracy" somewhere else -- with some new "Unknown and unpredictable results" such as total collapse of oil exporting ability from the Persian Gulf, overthrow of some "FRIENDLY NON-=DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENTS" etc. Oil at $200-300 a barrel would greatly increase the world's happiness and enchance the growth of democracy.

In other worlds if Mr. Shim Jae Hoon does not have any ideas but the parrotting of Bush's TALKING POINTS, he should keep QUIET! lest he contribute to some more HUMAN RIGHT ABUSE, ala Iraq, Somalia, Afganistan, Lebanon, Palestine, etc courtesy of USA and her buddies: ISRAEL and UK

Shim Jae Hoon's commentary is a faithful replication of the ideas embedded in the Washington-centric foreign policy elite. The proposition - that appears to be self-evident for a self-referential group - is that one should now go for a 'West Bank' first policy and let Hamas be forced to come to a compromise as Gazans will be 'voting with their feet' to escape the starving wasteland of 'Hamastan' for a 'Fatahstine' that will receive support and succour from the US and its 'coalition of the willing'. Alas, forgotten in such analysis is the context and background to what has happened in the Palestianian territories. The US-led international community did not accept the freely and fairly contested electoral victory by Hamas. They funded and armed Fatah in the expectation that they will prevail militarily over their Hamas rivals. Not surprisingly, rejectionist elements within Fatah never seriously contemplated that a 'national unity' government would endure. It also meant that voices within Hamas that sought to embrace the democratic process lost their credibility. What we have learnt, rather painfully once again, is that there are severe limits to what external actors can do to reconstruct the political landscape in distant lands in line with their prior beliefs. I predict that the 'West Bank first' policy is doomed to fail.

Well for years we have supported one of the most racist regimes on earth (Israel). Its now time to settle this conflict by donations of ever more powerful weapons to both Hamas And Fatah. Let them Kill each other until Israel can easily mop up the pieces