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We do not know if muslims are embracing their faith more explicitly (sincerely??).

What we know is that the new trend of 'showing' islam is proving to be an 'employment opportunity' for those who otherwise would be marginal folks.

We do not know if muslims are embracing their faith more explicitly (sincerely??).

What we know is that the new trend of 'showing' islam is proving to be an 'employment opportunity' for those who otherwise would be marginal folks.

We do not know if muslims are embracing their faith more explicitly (sincerely??).

What we know is that the new trend of 'showing' islam is proving to be an 'employment opportunity' for those who otherwise would be marginal folks.

Will Islamic democracies respect a woman's right/freedom to wear bikinis in public, esp. government, locations?

If not, then why not? Are we not speaking of freedom? If there are limits, then who decides?

The last time I checked, regimes/ideologies that defended a woman's right/freedom to cover herself from head to toe also STRIPPED women of most of their rights, even the most basic ones afforded by the Sheria.

In stark contrast, I have yet to see a facist regime of the "bikini wearers"...

Those that live lives in OPEN VIEW compensate with GREATER courage and independence, the two most important ingredients for free-living.

conscience-to-the-world:
conscience-to-the-world:

To: All Muslim Women in all muslim nations!!!

ALL MUSLIM WOMEN HAVE THEIR OWN RIGHT TO WEAR THINGS SCU AS HEADWEARS OR NOT WEAR ANYTHING ON THEIR BODIES AT ALL!

THEREFORE:
THEY CAN WEAR BIKINIS AND WEAR HIGH HEEL SHOES WITH HEADSCARVES TO WALK SEXILY ON THE STREETS TO MAKE ALL MUSLIM BOYS FEEL IN HEAT!

THEY CAN WEAR HEADSCARVES BUT BELOW THEIR HEADSCARVES ARE NOTHING OR ZEROKINIS TO WEAR TO SHOW OFF THEIR BODIES BEAUTINESS!

OR THEY CAN SHOW OFF THEIR BREASTS LIKE OTHER WOMEN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD TO MAKE LIFE LOOK MORE FUN AND HAPPINESS TO ALL OTHER VIEWERS!

PLEASE ABANDON AND PROHIBIT ALL BLACK GHOST-LIKE RAGS THAT LOOK EYE-IRRITATED AND SO UGGLY THAT MUSLIM WOMEN WEAR ALL THE TIME WITH ONLY TWO HOLES TO LET THEM SEE THE OUTSIDE WORLD!
IT IS HORRIBLE THE CULTURE CALLED AS MUSLIM CULTURE! HORRIBLE!!!!!

MUSLIM BOYS WANT THEIR WOMEN LOOK LIKE GHOSTS WALKING DOWN THE STREETS IN HOT DAYS UNDER THE FULL SUN! IT MUST BE A TORTURE TO ALL MUSLIMS WOMEN IN THIS HOT WORLD!
MUSLIM MEN MAKE MUSLIM WOMEN BECOME VERY HOTTTTTT!!!

Posted by: conscience-to-the-world | February 10, 2008 2:14 PM

Posted by: conscience-to-the-world | February 10, 2008 2:17 PM

Posted on: February 10, 2008 14:17 | Report Offensive Comments

conscience-to-the-world:

FROM: "conscience-to-the-world"

TO: ALL MUSLIM-MALES AND MUSLIM-FEMALES:

"GOOD DAY TO ALL!"

ALL MUSLIM WOMEN HAVE THEIR OWN RIGHT TO WEAR THINGS OR WEAR NOTHING ON THEIR OWN BODIES!

THEREFORE:

THEY CAN EITHER WEAR BIKINIS, MONOKINIS, ZEROKINIS OR TINY BAMBOO LEAVES AND CAN WEAR HIGH HEEL SHOES WITH BIKINIS OR ZEROKINIS TO WALK SEXILY ON THE STREETS LIKE ALL WOMEN IN THE WORLD AND TO MAKE ALL MUSLIM BOYS, MEN AND OLD MEN FEEL IN HIGH HEAT AND GO CRAZY WHILE LOOKING AT THEM!

THEY CAN WEAR HEADSCARVES BUT BELOW THEIR HEADSCARVES ARE NOTHING OR ZEROKINIS OR TINY BAMBOO LEAVES TO PLEASE THEMSELVES AND OTHERS AND BEING ABLE TO SHOW OFF THEIR BEAUTTIFUL BODIES AND THEIR HIDDEN WONDEFUL PLACES!

OR THEY CAN SHOW OFF THEIR BREASTS OR THEIR WONDERFUL BUSHY-BUSHY LIKE OTHER WOMEN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD TO MAKE LIFE LOOK MORE FUN AND JOY AND HAPPINESS TO THEMSELVES AND ALL OTHER VIEWERS! AND WHY NOT???

PLEASE ABANDON AND PROHIBIT ALL BLACK GHOST-LIKE RAGS CALLED AS "BURGA BURGA" THE TERRIBLE SCARRY THINGS! THAT MUSLIM WOMEN WEAR ALL THE TIME WITH ONLY TWO HOLES TO LET THEM SEE THE OUTSIDE WORLD! WHILE THESE BURGAS BURGAS SCARE OFF OR TERRORIZE ALL OTHERS EYES IN THE HOT DAYS! (AND MAKE ME FEEL TERRIBLE TOO EACH TIME I SAW THESE GHOST-LIKE BURGAS AROUND ME AND MAKE ME FEEL TO ENCOUNT GHOSTS!)
IT IS HORRIBLE CULTURE INDEED!!! THE CULTURE CALLED AS MUSLIM CULTURE! HORRIBLE!!!!! THAT ONLY CRAZY MALE MUSLIMS CAN ENJOY THESE HORRIBLE THINGS! OR CRAZY CULTURE OR IRRATIONAL CULTURE!!!
IN ESSENCE, MUSLIM THINGKING AND BELIEF SEEM TO BE IRRATIONAL CREATED BY CRAZY MUSLIM FOLKS!
THE ENTIRE WORLD WISH NEVER EVER TO SEE ON THEIR LANDS GHOST-LIKE "BURBA-BURBAS" WALKING AROUND TO SCARE OFF THEIR OWN CITIZENS OR/AND INSULT THEIR SOCIETIES! AND LIFE-STYLES!

Posted by: conscience-to-the-world | February 10,

So Turkey's socio-economic-political system is in turmoil and, therefore, we see a growing number of women resorting to finding succour in headscarves.

How outrageous a thought!?

By this logic, the entire American female polulation soon would be seen roaming around resorting to regressive religious practices to ward off the ill effects of an imminent recessive economy!

Hey, the fact of the matter is that under Islamic traditions, muslim men love to control lives of their female counterparts in the name of 'religion' and that is precisely what is being brought in the Turkish society as well in the name of 'freedom' for females - to veil or unveil!

This article is pretty silly. Mr. Khouri basically says in his article that the wearing of the headscarf is not an act of personal piety but a political statement. He admits that the headscarf is "gaining public expression in other lands where religion and politics often mix, including the U.S., Israel, Lebanon and other places".

The wearing of the headscarf is a visible sign that one is a member of the Muslim community, the Ummah. Of course this is a political statement, especially like Mr. Khouri says, in areas where there are Islamic political parties (like APK in Turkey).

If there was an organized, explicitly Christian, political presence in the U.S. I would be more concerned with outward expressions of religious faith which are already political in many cases (the Republican party is not explicitly Christian , as the disconnect between McCain and the "value voters" has shown). I personally would rather that people keep religious beliefs to themselves. Wearing a headscarf is not keeping it to yourself.

The first litmus test of a claim is its internal consistency. The headscard issue fails this first test for a number of reasons, which is why secularists, and any one else with basic historical perspective, are so up in arms:

1. Making the last priority the most important priority: There are 5 major and 12 secondary pillars of Islam. These include the basic rules by which a person relates to and accepts the will of God, and a general list of inter-dependent priorities. For example, belief in one, almighty God comes first. Otherwise, it would be pointless to believe in God's prophets, books, rules, etc. Similarly, investment in (or charity to) self and others comes second (alms giving, education, respect for laws/authority, respect for others' rights and propert), as we need ourselves and the society in which we live in to be as healthy and strong as possible. The headscarf does not make it into this "top 17". So why are we even discussing it? Have Muslims perfected their application of the "first 17"?

2. Making one of many priorities the one and only priority: Have Muslim men perfected their treatment of Muslim women? Even by the most men-friendly interpretatin of Sheria, the answer is no. From inheretence to work to education to polygamy, Muslim men have made violations of Muslim women's rights an art form. In the name of Allah, Allah-given rights are effetively trempled. In other words, when women can stand up as girls (before they become women) for their right not to wear the scarf, to go to school, to receive equal inherentence as their mail siblings, etc., we can feel assured women are truly strong, independent thinkers, making a rational, well-informed decision about their attire. Otherwise, what good is it if they can get full head coverage while they are given a fraction of every other right?

3. Women have other religous rules to live by: For example, do women who want headscarves also support receiving half of the inheretence their brothers', being divorced by the simple utterance of "be divorced" three times by their husbands, sharing their husbands (affection, wealth, etc.) with at least three other women, being stoned to death, etc.? If not, then why not? If a woman is serious about needing the headscarf to fulfill a tangential requirement of Islam, then why not fulfill EVERY IMPORTANT requirement of Islam, starting with near-utter subservience to men?

These are the obvious problems with clamoring for the headscarf TODAY. Another time, another place, when women are truly accorded all of the rights and freedoms given to them by God, we will have less (no?) reason to suspect that this is all a ploy to further/solidify the subjugation of women, and to install Sheria for Sheria's sake.

Whether the Turkish secularists, or Europeans, are handling the headcovering issue in the wisest manner or not, is a matter for debate. But, they do have a legitimate right to be concerned. As for Turkey, the secularists are holding fast to the principles upon which modern Turkey was established by Kamal Ataturk

Yes, wearing the hijab is an expression of Islamic identity, and this is the crux of the issue in many places, including many Islamic countries. What do we mean by a “religious expression” in this case? For most Muslim women, it is not a personal choice to wear Islamic dress: it is imposed upon them, and to not wear it would be tantamount to a rejection of Islam and exposing themselves as immoral women to the culture around them. Western countries can make a huge noise about this, but Muslim countries cannot, as this would be tantamount to challenging the accepted, traditional Islam. But, it is well known that most Muslim countries keep a close eye on the more conservative Islamic movements in their midst, which consider the veil as a line in the sand in defending Islamic values. Many of these same movements would like to implement Sharia law in these countries, which, by the way, although Islamic, restrict the Sharia for the most part to matters of marriage, divorce, and inheritance laws. Muslims themselves have been having a fierce debate for decades over the validity and implementation of Sharia.

The comparison between Muslim women who wear the hijab and the Presidential Prayer Breakfast, or evangelical football players in America is a weak comparison. The evangelical Christian understanding of the State and politics is totally different than the conservative Islamic interpretation. Although there are women who make a good case for their freedom to don the hijab, most of them have never read the Islamic commentaries on the two main verses in the Qur’an, or the main hadith dealing with this subject. Behind the hijab is a whole philosophy and interpretation of who and what the woman is in the Islamic community. And all of this is part of a larger vision of the majority of conservative Muslims for finally implementing Sharia law across the board.

Robert Robertson

Headscraf is a normal dressup of a woman who believes in Islam.
All the importance it got is because of western media cries of unseen phobia as if any attack is going on on their civilization while the truth is that they are ruining their own values themselves.

It's interesting how religious extremists - neochrristian or Muslim - rail against the undefined, unseen "secularists" while their beliefs are oppressive to their own and others. Maybe Khouri would feel different if men were required to wear veils instead of women.

Rami,
Fully agree with u:hijab including headscarf is no more than a statemnt of modesty and piety and rarely have any political meaning-yet it is blown out of proportantion by pundits,Islam haters and bashers.

Attaturk's Turkey was never a secular liberal democracy western style that sperates between state and religion yet protects freedom of religion-Unlike Attaturk's secular anti-religious secular military dictatorship,remember how the turkish military despots hanged in public square Adnan Mandaris the turkish PM in 1960-if I recall the date correctly.

It is only recently and under AK that Turkey enjoyed for the first tine in eighty years,genuine secular liberal democracy;and yestrday's parlimintary majority vote removed a serious constituitional griveance and anomaloy and introduced Eqaulity before the Law of all Turks where for example all females wearing or not wearing headscaves have access to university education. That is justice and real democracy-and the Muslimworld particularily the Arab world need to emulate AK democrcay.

I totally agree with what Rami George Khouri has said.

I also wanted to add that in order to convience any Muslim woman not to wear the headscarf you should remind her about two issues:

First, the rational behind the headscarf in Islam: Women in Islam have been considerd as sex objects and should be protected from the sexual desires/fantasies of the male preditors in predominantly male-dominant Muslim societies by covering them.

Second: Islam, as a religion and contrary to Islamic probaganda, does not treat women and men as equal with respect to so many different social and religion rights, obligations, and duties. To give an example, a Muslim man can marry up to 4 Muslim women because Islam acknowledges the overwhelming sexual desires of men. That is also one of the reasons why radical Muslims tend to become wash-brained suicidal bombs by killing percieved infidels and ultimatly killing themselves so that they can go to what they believe in as God's promised heaven where they can find lots of virgin women to satify their sexual desires and fanatcies.

May God help and save those Muslim men and women.

I totally agree with what Rami George Khouri has said.

I also wanted to add that in order to convience any Muslim woman not to wear the headscarf you should remind her about two issues:

First, the rational behind the headscarf in Islam: Women in Islam have been considerd as sex objects and should be protected from the sexual desires/fantasies of the male preditors in predominantly male-dominant Muslim societies by covering them.

Second: Islam, as a religion and contrary to Islamic probaganda, does not treat women and men as equal with respect to so many different social and religion rights, obligations, and duties. To give an example, a Muslim man can marry up to 4 Muslim women because Islam acknowledges the overwhelming sexual desires of men. That is also one of the reasons why radical Muslims tend to become wash-brained suicidal bombs by killing percieved infidels and ultimatly killing themselves so that they can go to what they believe in as God's promised heaven where they can find lots of virgin women to satify their sexual desires and fanatcies.

May God help and save those Muslim men and women.