Comments (50)

Stop wasting time, money and paper concentrating on China which the U.S. has lost since Shankaisheck was kicked out to Formosa ( now Taiwan). I think the world is fast going to three competing continents for resources especially water. We should concentrate on South America to make sure we can still drink water and have friendly democracies on our side. It's time to learn Spanish and Portuguese guys!

Free Tibet Made-In-China. Freed from serfdom and slavery and a brutal theocratic governments that persecuted Christianity for 400 years.

Wikipedia - Tibetan Sovereignty Debate
Read, or contribute if you can.

Wikipedia - Tibetan Sovereignty Debate
Read, or contribute if you can.

No nation has ever recognized Tibet as an independent sovereign state, before or after the People's Liberation Army marched into Lhasa.

A prodigal son may think he is independent and without a father. But the father refused to disown him. So, it was China, the motherland of Tibet.

Those Westerners who support the Dalai Lama in any way has to think clearly. By their support, they actually do harm to the Tibetans in Tibet, and unnecessarily delay the return of the Tibetans in exile to their homeland.

If you want to help, ask the Dalai Lama to renounce independence unequivocally and unconditionally, and to cut off ties with pro-Tibet-independence activists, eg. Tibetan Youth Congress. Ask him to accept China's Constitution and autonomy law. Then he can return to Tibet, and fight for Tibetan rights like as a loyal Chinese citizen, following the footsteps of the Panchen Lama (the second highest ranking lama in Tibet).

Do you all know that the Panchen Lama the Ninth, the Tenth, and the Eleventh all accepted the position that Tibet belongs to China?

Wikipedia - Tibetan Sovereignty Debate
Read, or contribute if you can.

@samchannar

--- Sponge will absorb water, concreate will not. I don't blame you. ---

Surely you are a sponge, that soaked full with poison:-)

I believe you have been brainwashed when you were in the chinese university by your chinese classmates who suffered in the culture revolution, because to me you have exactly same mind set and logic like theirs.
It's not good for you in dicussing china's issues, because you got stucked in 35 yrs ago and lose the vision on the whole picture and the trend in the future.
So sorry for you

This samchannar is a funny FreeTibet shill. He is so ridiculous to separate normal Chinese from this Chinese government in Tibet issue.
We should told this FreeTibet stupidity: in terms of Tibet issue, there are 13 billion PRC agents in this world,so please stop playing your useless and dirty politic games with our Chinese.

The 2nd World Buddhism Conference was held in China. Leading Buddhists from around the world were invited to attend this meeting except Dalai. If he would had stayed in China, he could be the chairperson of this meeting. Now he is just an outcast, wining and dinning with politicians instead of minding his religion. What a pity.

To Samchanner: You are running out of rationale to defend your poins. Therefore you conclude yourself to be irrationale. I hope you understand

THMAK:
You are a PRC agent. It is not worth my time argueing with a robotic programmed mind. Sponge will absorb water, concreate will not. I don't blame you. You are only doing what you are paid to do. Goodbye.

Wow, I didn't realize there are so many believers in theocracy in the west. So finally you guys give up on your democratic representative system and start looking for theocracy as the alternative now? Let me guess, the financial crisis may be the last straw. Please, please, tell me it ain't true, Joe that you give up on democracy because finally a black folk was elected the President of the United States.
Just one question, for your theocracy maniacs, who should be our supreme leader then, a Pope, an Ayatollah, a Rabbi, or your favorite i guess, a Lama? I have a suggestion, how about the Queen? After all she is already the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

To Samchanner: Since you didn't respond to my post point by point. I presume that you agree to my points. Thaks you.

To Samchanner:What You said "I believe you aee a PRC's representative and you will always tow its line." truly indicates that your thinking is utterly wrong. What You said "The only international recognition is from the countries that are bought out by PRC either through military threat or trade surplus and money." means USA, all Western countries, including UN, India, etc. Is that absurd? It is utter nonsence for you to say that the human brains can be totally identical so they think identically. "That is why I can say my thoughts without towing the lines of my government." but your thoughts are similar to those of Dalai Lama. That means you are brainwashed by him.
"Tibet was acquired by PRC in the 50's by force." so as to unify China just like unifying other parts of China. "Show me one Tibetan who agrees that he or she is Chinese." Panchen Lama is an example. "Which chinese dynasty owned Tibet outright?" Yuen dynasty till Ching Dynasty. The British gave up India. That is their problem. Dalai gave up Tibet by deserting it instead of fighting inside Tibet. So he has no claim.

So, please stop giving us the Dalai line. We all know the greater ambitions of Dalai. You may be an exiled Tibetan, but do you have an independant thought?

Dear THMAK:
I believe you aee a PRC's representative and you will always tow its line. The only international recognition is from the countries that are bought out by PRC either through military threat or trade surplus and money. The recognition is also half hearted in many cases. Unlike under PRC, we, the people, have the freedom to think, feel and say what is on our mind. That is why I can say my thoughts without towing the lines of my government.
Tibet was acquired by PRC in the 50's by force. Show me one Tibetan who agrees that he or she is Chinese. You will get the same response that you will get if you ask a Korean or a Japanese the same question. If you are looking for ethnic or linguistic connection, there are none. Which chinese dynasty owned Tibet outright? The British once owned India. Can they now claim India is part of the British empire. They can also rationalize that most Indians speak English, and there is a considerable population that is Christian.
I read some reports that PRC was pressing India to turn over their Arunachal predesh to them. Not even a single occupant of the state is willing to be Chinese.
So, please stop giving us the PRC line. We all know the greater ambitions of PRC. You may be a nationalistic Chinese, but do you have an independant thought?

why were some comments disappeared? nothing offensive in those comments. anyone knows what are the rules here?

To Samchanner: Every country in the world recognizes Tibet as a province of China and not an independent country. I hope you understand.
Where do you get the fact that PRC has created as a master plan to be the "greatest nation on earth". You must be lying. You are lying to say PRC claims all of the himalayas and even some parts of India, Mayanmar, Vietnam. You can also say that India, Mayanmar, Vietnam claim some part of China. I hope you understand. You said "Jesus stayed and got crucified." That is why so many people believe in Him. You said "Jesus so Two thousand years ago, it was the right time to generate a new faith." does not give you any special right and allow you to infringe upon the right of others. It is wrong to claim that "He is the spiritual and political leader of Tibetans.". There are other Tibetan spiritual and political leader besides Dalai. Since Dalai is outside Tibet and had deserted Tibet and his followers, he is no more a spiritual or political leader in Tibet. He has no Buddha's compassion and forebearcne whatsoever by deserting his followers in Tibet to suffer and let himslf living comfortably in exile. Shame on him as a spiritual and political leader. I hope understand. You said "Gandhi stayed and fought the British, who recognized the rule of law." If British recognised rule of law, there would not be colonialism. I hope you understand. When you said"They were rulers, but not ruthless." you mean they came and conquered India without firing a shot. You must be very naive to say that. When you said "If Gandhi was a Chinese and rose against PRC, he would live for two minutes after his trial.", you must be crazy to think that way. You are so ignorant not to know that the event in Tianmen Square lasted for more that a month,not two minute you said. If Dalai decided to stay back in Tibet, he would be a spiritual and political leader in Tibet as do Panched Lama and other high ranking lama in Tibet. I hope you understand.

THMAK:
Tibet was never part of China. It is a myth that the PRC has created as a master plan to be the "greatest nation on earth". PRC claims all of the himalayas and even some parts of India, Mayanmar, Vietnam and Taiwan as theirs. Jesus stayed and got crucified. Two thousand years ago, it was the right time to generate a new faith. In the 21st century, it is hardly possible. Dalai Lama is not, and will not be divinity. He is the spiritual and political leader of Tibetans. PRC won't recognize that, and neither would you. Gandhi stayed and fought the British, who recognized the rule of law. They were rulers, but not ruthless. If Gandhi was a Chinese and rose against PRC, he would live for two minutes after his trial. Study Tinnaman square. So, would have been Dalai Lama if he decided to stay back in Tibet. The Tibatans are better off with a live leader than a dead one. You can post anything, but truth is still truth.

To Martiniano:

I can not help but to label you as a presumptious bigot.

You wrote "I actually enjoy reading the poorly written posts from PRC shills. They are supposedly from a nation that is 10,000 years old, but their logic and their posts show them to have the international IQ of a 5 year old."

You can hardly contain your thinly veiled racism. What qualification do you have to assign an "international" IQ? Is using "civilized people/world" out of fashion now that you have to invent another "international" IQ to satisfy your sense of egoistic superiority?

To Samchanner,Summermute,Martiniano: Mexico has never been part of USA but Tibet has been part of China. I hope you understand. Dalai's religion is not the only religion in Tibet. Dalai tries brutally to suppress other Tibetan reliogions so his can be dominant. If Dalai has the moral, spiritual, humanitarian, and political obligation to stand up for his people and is one of the best, and one of the most caring, he would have stayed in Tibet to fight for the right of his followers just like Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King instead of deserting his followers and living comfortably in exile. He absolutely doesn't have Buddha's compassion and forebearance. Dalai was still the leader in Tibet before he escaped. He gave up his leadership by staging a failed revolt under the intigation of anti-China Western countries to gain so-called indpendence. Just pity to see Dalai now running around to beg for scant moral support to his lost glory as a Tibetan religious leader in Tibet. He just fades into history. I hope you undertand.

The US better watch all that borrowing from China may put us between a rock and a hard place one day...

So great to see FreeTibet silly dreamers creaming here.
Dalai lama is a liar,an once slave master.Period.
Chinese are now used to your guys' ill-purposed bashing.Now we take it as dog as nature has to bark.;)

I see a lot of racist anti-Chinese white folks using Dalai Lama and Tibet issue to bash China and keep this non-White nation down. Nothing is new here. They did to Japanese in late 1980s and early 1990s before Japan embarked on a decade long of "stagnation." Of course Japan is a good boy again as its perceived threat to white (European, non-Jewish) establishment in the world is long gone. Has anyone seen the movie, "the rising sun?" You will see the similar anti-Asian movie coming out of suposedly "liberal" Hollywood soon.

JLA1JUDY:
Yes, Dalai Lama is a monk, but he is also the leader of the Tibetan people as recognized the world over.
He is the voice of the people, who otherwise have no voice at all. Tibet is as much a part of China as Mexico is part of the United States. The Mexicans will fight and we will also fight, if our government decides to go over and annex Mexico. Dalai Lama may be a monk, but he also has the moral, spiritual, humanitarian, and political obligation to stand up for his people. The ruthless pursuit of money by some in our society has sold us totally to the Chinese. Our Jobs are all gone, our country is massively in debt to the Chinese, and the Chinese stuff our Wal-Mart’s with their products, without which most of us go naked. Now many of our politicians and industry moguls roll over and play dead when they see the Chinese. We look the other way when a ruthless dictatorship gobbles up a defenseless people. South Africa is no different. They can be bought, and they are bought. You bet He is a monk, but he is one of the best, and one of the most caring, and one of the most listened to Monks/politicians of our time. The Chinese may not like him, but Tibetans do, and he is their spokesperson. He is their last and only hope.

I guess most people here are missing the moral point.

First, SO's Blacks got the support of "the monk", as some of you call him, when SO was under the white supremacy boot.

Now that Tibetans need the support to be rewarded, the SO government slaps Tibetans in their face.

Typical.

People in pain will do anything to get rid of the pain. Once the thorn is out, they will go to cause to others the same injuries they complained about.

The most egregious recent example of that are the Zionist and many Jews. THey have instituted a concentration camp in Palestine where they practice ethnic cleansing.

Humans. The worse animal inhabiting this planet.

Um, the Dalai Lama is not "just a monk." Since the 5th Dalai Lama united Tibet in 1652 and moved the center of power to Llasa, a series of Dalai Lama's have remained the titular heads of Tibet up until 1952.

Conflicts and relations with the Nepalese, Mongols, Manchu, British etc. have played a roll in Tibetan politics during this period. Tibet was historically spared paying tribute or taxes to their stronger neighbors, was allowed to maintain its own standing army (to defend against Nepal) and so on and so forth.

I'm not personally religious, but throughout the history of human civilization, we can all recognize that many, many cultures have identified religious and political leaders.

Dalai Lama is a monk. He should stay home doing meditation and pray. He always travel around (material) world gaving speech about China to arouse other people's hatred, especially Westerners to fall into his trap and fight for him.

Dalai Lama is the best politician in whole world, dressing as a monk and mind full of politics. But
he is the worst monk.

What reaches us in the twenty-first century is superficial, fuzzy, vulgarized. Peace, shout peace, award peace prize to whom has turn over a new leaf. Errors, both intentional and accidental. Violence and then non violence you got a prize.
Occasionally a detached observer catches the error. To point out that error invites rejection as a crank or trouble-maker. Only the person who understands the principle can detect and correct the errors which creep into all communication systems. Consider the distortion which converted Jefferson's "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness" to popular pyschology " How to be a happy human being"

Eh, what the h3ll. I will say something that people afraid to say it out loud. People want china to disintegrate into pieces. Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao will join the Western World. China will colonized again by Westerner.

"PRC shills" - that sums it up quite nicely.

Why should the PRC care about a confab of Nobel peace price winners in South Africa? Take a moment and consider the bizarre nature of the PRC's concern!

And notice the civilized world's response - cancel the South African gathering, and presumably reschedule it at another location more amenable to free peoples' freedom of expression rather than to the PRC's pitiful bruised ego.

One just has to laugh.

I actually enjoy reading the poorly written posts from PRC shills. They are supposedly from a nation that is 10,000 years old, but their logic and their posts show them to have the international IQ of a 5 year old.

You are the only ones who believe the crap from the PRC. China itself is not a homogenous nation. It's like Yugoslavia, made up of many cultures forced together. China will self-destruct as more people gain a voice.

That is why China works so hard to keep their people ignorant and silent.

There is little likelihood either control by a political oligarchy, as exists, or a popularly elected government in China would allow giving up control of Tibet. Given the century of humiliation China endured from the Opium wars to the Japanese invasion of most of eastern China and United States military intervention to protect Taiwan during the 1950's, no Chinese government is likely to accept any further loss in territory currently controlled.

The United States should use quiet diplomacy, not hypocrtical, public hectoring about human eights, to encourage the Chinese government to allow genuine cultural and religious freedoms in Tibet, while continuing to recognize China's sovereignty there.

The idea of the United States wanting to occupy Tibet is far fetched. However, if Tibet became independent, neo-cons would probably try to have military bases installed there as part of their overall global hegemony strategy.

Symptoms are abound for some time now, but this move now makes it obvious that South Africa is well on its way to becoming another nasty little African dictatorship. Just as Zimbabwe was hailed by the Western Left as a glorious victory, so was S. Africa. Another example of where the blackest prophecies of the Center-Right have become fact.

goon this, goon that writes MAERSK. Half truths, boldface lies, irrational logic. But it is not really necessary to speak ill of this pitiful character. The words that he types reveal the hateful, ignorant, xenopobic bigot that he obvious is.

To summermute the goon, you got the country and people all wrong. Do you mean America and Americans instead of China and Chinese? As far as I know only America is at wars and bullying people in Iraq and Afganistan. So please look yourself in the mirror. If you don't have a mirror, you can easily buy a cheap chinese-made one. If you are too poor to afford a cheap chinese-made mirror, get yourself a bucket of water. The reflection should show how ugly you yourself are.

To Martianio:

You'd better go back to your hole and educate yourself before the free-tibet folks hunt you down and shut you up because of your utter ignorance, racial hatred, and stupidity.

You wrote : "China needs ..., resettle the ethnic Chinese forced to move to Tibet, and free the true next Dalai Lama from prison."

First, there is no issue of "ethnic Chinese forced to move to tibet". Most of the ethnic non-tibitan Chinese (maybe some tibetans do no want to be included as "Chinese" but there are plenty of minority ethnics in China who are more than happy to be called "Hui Chinese", etc) move to Tibet with their free will. Maybe you are on to something, like ethnic cleansing the "non-tibetans" from Tibet?

Second, there is no "next Dalai Lama in prison". The next Dalai Lama will be found when the current one passes away, at least that is what the tibetan culture says.

To Free9604, Summermute: You all are obsessivley paranoid about china.

To mariniano; what you wrote indicate how pitifuuly ignorant you are. No country in the world has ever recognize Tibet as a nation. Native Americans are different in language, culture, religion and law from th rest of US and their land is occupied by the Europians by force. What so holy about the hypocrite Dalai lama? Nobel price is just an empty title to make people conceited. If Dalai follows in the footsteps of Jesus Christ, Gandhiji and The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. He would have stayed in Tibet as they did to suffer and save their followers instead of living comfortably outside of Tibet. He has no Buddha's compassion and forebearance whatsoever.

Read the prior comments, and in many (most?) you can easily smell the ugly, bitter, defensive, inferiority driven odor of mainland Chinese Nationalism.

You can hear it in any "we're not so bad, or at least everyone else is bad too, and in any case history is on our side, so we're great" structured comment regarding China and its populace.

Whence this pervasive, if pathetic, Nationalistic fervor among China's populace?

Well, 1) China is a huge place with a lot of people, but sadly 2) China is an incredibly impoverished nation despite what our popular press tells us. The numbers speak for themselves.

China's per capita GDP ranks a little BEHIND Ukraine and El Salvador's.

By comparison, Hong Kong's ranks between the USA and Switzerland, and Taiwan's ranks just behind France but just ahead of France and Italy.

Now that denial-fueling communist ideology has largely melted away, the big bad Chinese who are told how great they are by their leaders, in fact live side by side with their clearly better off, worldly and basically superior Chinese brethren.

Mainland China is like the school bully, large in size but lacking in brain and charm, who picks on his school mates because he deeply fears being totally rejected and ignored.

Hence, a commenter below entertains that the USA would like to somehow occupy Tibet. To most Western ears, such a statement doesn't sound false as much as totally nonsensical. Only the Chinese primitive and deeply nationalistic ideology could even entertain such an idea - that we would consider occupying Tibet to be some kind of prize.

Anyway, we can all hope that China can 1) gradually pull its own people out of filth and poverty; 2) let its currency trade freely with others; 3) pull its people out of ignorance and give up state control over information; 4) discover a more relaxed and inward looking source of pride and identity; and finally 5) study a few centuries of really bad ideas here in the West - mercantilism, colonialism, slavery, rent seeking, extensive growth strategies, etc. - and avoid making the same mistakes.

Maybe then China can stop stomping like the bully scorned and let go of petty issues like the status of Tibet and the internal policies of South Africa.

The goon reporter Pomfret from WP is inciting hatreds toward different ethnicities in China again. I have two questions to ask this goon reporter of WP: Firstly, isn't it a fact that America, the United Nations, and all the countries in the world recognize that Tibet and Taiwan are provinces of China? Secondly, can you explain to me how this reincarnated parasite Dalying Lama got the Nobel Peace prize? Did he come up with a theory that proved reincarnation exists? Isn't it a joke that Dalying Lama got the Nobel Peace prize? What has he ever done to improve the ordinary lives of Tibetans in Tibet province, China? It seems to me that all Dalying Lama has to do is hide in a temple, mumble and jumble about reincarnation, incite hatreds, and bad mouth China for the goon reporters from the media such as WP. I myself will give Dalying Lama another Nobel prize, it is for his BSting.

Matthew_DC... you're a joke. The West, daring to talk about other people's leader's behaving outrageously?

Not only are you a hypocrite, you're an idiot for thinking that the rest of us don't see through your typically American double standard crap.

Tibet under the Dalai Lama was quite possibly the most tyrannical monarchy on earth circa 1940's. Since that time the Dalai Lama has become a paid asset of the CIA... an admission he himself has made.

Let's not kid ourselves. What you REALLY want is Tibet handed over to America. So why don't you just come out and say that?

Newcomer1 says "What has China done to Dalai Lama that made him so upset?"

How about occupy his nation? You can spout all the PRC propaganda but it doesn't change this simple fact, and the rest of the world accepts this fact: China is an occupying force in Tibet. This is NOT like the US Civil War where the people shared language, law, religion and culture. Tibetans are different people than Chinese. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a Nobel Prize winner. He follows in the footsteps of Jesus Christ, Gandhiji and The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr.

China needs to restore Tibet to autonomous power, allow His Holiness to return as the leader of the Buddhist Community in Tibet, resettle the ethnic Chinese forced to move to Tibet, and free the true next Dalai Lama from prison.

The world awaits, with bated breath, the impact of Chinese Culture. Prey tell, other than shoddy consumer goods, tacky action films, non-existent literature and droning operas and so what exactly has the new Semi-Middle Kingdom contributed? Not even Harry Potteresque novellas. Japanese mass culture has a greater toe hold on other cultures: check out the tidal waves of MangaLit on the net!!!

It needs to be understood that the Nationalists in China Taiwan claimed even before the 1949 Revolution that the Tibet region has always been part of China. When the US had the one-China policy favoring China Taiwan, at the same time the CIA backed a futile guerrilla war in the Tibet region, solely because of anti-Communism and hegemony concerns, not because it seriously ever had any idea of recognizing an independent Tibet or the so-called Tibet government-in-exile. The US in the 1970s moved to the one-China policy favoring the PRC but has never allowed China Taiwan to proclaim independence. Most recently China Taiwan politicians have also moved away from their independence leanings toward peaceful reconciliation with the PRC. The 14th Dalai Lama should take note of these events. He should either abandon the role of political leader (and thus this Peace Prize business) or do his job and convince the aristocrats in Dharmsala and the young hotheads in the Free Tibet movement to direct their energy toward some effect in improving the situation for the ethnic Tibetans in China. The real point here is political corruption vs. democracy. Both the China Taiwan politicians and the DL are just as corrupt as the African politicans in accepting money from the CIA or National Endowment for Democracy instead of representing the interests of their people. Thank you for exposing this corruption behind this affair.

Yeah, the Dalai Lama is always ruining peace conferences with his war-like and violent behavior.....

Unfortunately Dalai Lama has become a pure politician with the disguise of religion. More and more people realize that his only goal is to draw them into the muddy fight with China. What has China done to Dalai Lama that made him so upset? China abolished slavery in Tibet which undercut the social foundation that supports Dalai Lama.

Developing countries of the world take note: see what happens when you start hanging out with the communist dictators who rule China. And don't be surprised when your tarmacs fill up with Chinese war planes and your ports sport lots of Chinese war ships.

Near the end of the article, John Pomfret asks ‘At the end of the day, though, you have to wonder how much victories like these -- over Taiwan and over the Dalai Lama -- really help China's cause’. The question should be reversed to ‘At the end of the day, though, you have to wonder how much the temporary victory of Taiwan or Dalai Lama really helped their cause’. Taiwan’s contribution of 10 million dollars to ANC did not stop South Africa’s recognition of PRC over Taiwan. Whole world is beholden to mighty economic powerhouse China and Dalai Lama’s nonviolent movement to get autonomy for Tibet from China hasn’t advanced much either.

Taiwan has to face the fact that before long (50 years at the most) it will cease to exist as independent country and Dalai Lama has to face the fact that before long (20 years at the most) Tibetan identity and culture will vanish in dustbin of history. China’s military power is slowly but steadily inching closer to US military power so that one day China will be able to take over Taiwan without having to worry about US intervention and China’s efforts to erase Tibetan identity are already at a very advanced stage without much interference from the rest of the world.

It is an everlasting blot on Mandela's South Africa that it is carrying out the orders of a repressive regime in blocking the entry of the Dalai Lama.The current rulers of South Africa are no better than their former racist rulers.

To Matthew_DC: It is not Chinese tantrum but Chinese reprimand to Western infantile tantrums, ignorance, prejudice,and arrogance due to inferiority complex. An example is if you or Pomfret don't start this discussion, peace prevails. By starting the discussion, you and Pomfret show infantile tantrums, ignorance, prejudice,and arrogance due to inferiority complex. I hope you understsand.

Former racially segregated parliamentary republic denies entry to leader of former ethnocentric theocracy, because of pressure from racist, atheist socialist country.

It's useful to point these things out and annoy China on issues like Taiwan and Tibet. Their leadership is too intolerant of criticism, displaying an almost infantile rage when they are contradicted. The West must not give in to that.

It is not that the West is morally superior in all respects to China. The West doesn't need to be. When we see human beings, such as China's leaders, behaving outrageously, noise should be made, regardless of the tantrums they throw about it.