Comments (34)

I have written several posts that I post in the readers’ comment areas on related topics as follows. I wish to change the minds of some to Chinese POV and Chinese is not a evil empire. I did change some in the past from the responses, but we cannot change extremists and Chinese bashers that have been brained washed by the western media.

Tibet. http://tonyp4joke.blogspot.com/2009/02/free-tibet-my-holy-foot.html

Human rights. http://tonyp4joke.blogspot.com/2009/02/china-human-right-lover.html

ALEX65 gave a great analogy: "100 yarders laugh at 10 yarders", besides the fact that in last 7-8 years US is laughing at China running backward towards the starting line while China is moving forward at snail's pace and at times one step forward and 3/4 step backward. Hopefully, Obama will turn the ship around, so, words and actions by "100 yarders" will be taken more seriously around the world without military means.

This "Human Rights" canard is now, and has always been, a tool of "The West" to bludgeon opponents with on the world stage. They have gotten away with it to a large extent because people are generally too lazy to look at the record of the accusers. It's akin to the magician's misdirection trick which has been executed quite effectively for the last century but it's time has run out with the onset of the internet and the general political awakening of people the world over.

To Dummy4peace: You quoted: We very much want all people on Earth to be treated equally and fairly." So you must have realized that such want just never come true. Chinese Government punished those who were responsible for the milk contamination but the USA government do not punish those responsible for the peanut poison. I hope you understand. You acknowledge that "we did not treat American Indians fairly,". So you just ACKNOWLEDGE only for all the suffering 300 years ago to the present and into the future. What kind of devil compassion you have! Why don't you go to the Native American reservations and Tibet and compare the living conditions of the Native Americans and the tibetans. The Native American holly place and ancester land do not belong to them anymore and they have no say to the land that once belong to them. They cannot aspire to "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave". The Tibetans retain their holly place and monasteries and continue to live on their ancestrial land and participate in the politcal/governmental structure of their land. I hope you understand.

A free China isn't necessarily a good thing for the U.S. Democracy nurtures creativity so we may lose our edge on global competition. That does NOT mean that we don't want all Chinese, Taiwanese and Tibetans to have basic human rights. We very much want all people on Earth to be treated equally and fairly.

By the way, saying that deliberately adding melamine to milk for Chinese babies for profits is the same as our peanut butter Salmonella Typhimurium contamination is very disrespectful to the victimized Chinese babies and their still suffering families. Haven't they suffered enough for others' greed? Mercy on them, please!

http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/Salmonellatyph.html#update

I hope all nations on Earth can make progress on human developments and civilization. Every country makes mistakes and hope others will not repeat the same mistake. I agree that we did not treat American Indians fairly, but for Chinese to use that as an excuse in the 21st century to mistreat Tibetans will put China on the backward path against the great Chinese civilization. If you think human rights is just a gimmick for American foreign policies, please think again.

John:

While I applaud your concern for human rights and absolutely agree that human rights condition in China leaves much to be desired. However, the attention of western nations, particularly U.S. are not viewed as impetus for change but rather political tools to embarrass China on the world stage.

The U.S. is seen hypocritically using human rights as foreign policy talking points against China when election nears while (as other posters pointed out) enjoying special relationships with countries like Saudi Arabia. The invasion of Iraq, torture and encampment at Abu Ghraib, Gitmo are hardly feathers in the one's proverbial cap.

Moreover, as one of the world's oldest and longest continuous civilizations that suffered much humiliation in the last two hundred years, Chinese people's pride and slight inferiority complex won't allow a foreign power to dictate its policies. U.S. gesticulation would only promote adoption of hardliner positions within the CCP. Instead, these changes must come from within, riding on the back of its phenomenal economic growth. Poor people tend to worry less about freedom of speech and more about the next bowl of rice.

However, I've had a nagging thought that perhaps, an free, democratic China isn't really in the U.S. interest. Certainly a stable China is beneficial to everyone, but if America can no longer paint China as a dangerous totalitarian regime, it would create problems for U.S. to justify armed forces presence in Taiwan and southeast Asia, European arms embargo...etc.
OR maybe I'm just paranoid ha.

John:

While Beijing, Tibet and Taiwan are exciting, look like you missed a hot issue in Taiwan: the firing of Guo Guan-yin for his anonymous post on the web. His article offended local Taiwanese by sarcastically saying "Hey, I am even a high class mainlander"

When local Taiwanese are offended, all laws protecting human rights and freedon of expression are gone; when Taiwan born President or politicians publically calling mainlanders pigs, etc, you name it, that's a non-issue. This time, even President Ma who always claims to stick with law is ignoring law this time.

Of course, this is not unique in Taiwan. It happens all over the world. We have to be realistic. They did not jail Guo yet, although some legislators already call for that.

I see a lot of PRC, Middle East or Yugoslavia practice in Taiwan now - in the name of protecting freedom, of course.

Promfret's probably short on cash from Bernie Madof, so he went back with his old trade - bashing Chinese. And he had to recycle some old news. Is Washington Post paying him for this trash?

We have no business lecturing others on human rights when we have committed the most human rights violations for the past decade. Thousands of Iraqis were killed, millions became refuges, many Iraqi women had to work as prostitutes in Jordan to make a living. Our government torture people. Our government taps our phone. Crooks in Wall Street robbed half of retirement savings of ordinary people, screwed up the entire world's economy.

But it feels so good to talk about Tibet, which has been under Chinese sovereignty for centuries.

Maybe the US should pay more attention to its own human rights situation IN ADDITION to raising human rights issue with China.

But I challenge anyone to state that human rights situation in China is better or even near to that in the US.

The reasoning to tell any Amreican to mind her/his own business based on some flaws in the human right records of US is a typical "100 yarders laugh at 10 yarders".

I thank you again Mr Pomfret for bringing up the human rights issue of China onto surface.

This hasn't been a good year for Mr. Pomfret's criticisms on China.
"Fake singing" at Olympic opening? how about "fake performing" at Obama's inauguration?
Tainted baby formula in China? How about tainted peanut butter in US?
New tough economic policy towards China by Geithner? Oh, please, where should I even to start with?
After posting so many discredited thoughts on China, I thought Mr. Pomfret finally learned his lesson and stopped making a fool of himself. But it just seems that he couldn't resist it.

To Eggplant2: In USA, government morally corrupt officials don't enact stiff pollution laws to prevent USA from being the most pollutants producing per capita on earth. USA government has allowed criminal financial institutions to crash the american and the world economy, irresponsibly devaluing the dollar further. USA has massive street people on earth despite the fact that this is the land of opportunity, of the free, the home of the brave, of democracy and human right. US can't compete with cheap labor because USA has priced themselves out of the labor market just like how Japanese auto makers did to Detroit auto makers. I hope you understand.

To Rangzen: USA doesn't advocate human right because she is the major human right violator on earth. USA will be scornfully sneered if she preaches human right. You can chant all you want on oppression, suppression, thousands Tibetan killed by China. Yet no one, including USA as you mentioned, will care because the so-called exiled Tibetan government had done worse than the Chinese. I hope you understand.

As a Tibetan-American I'm shocked & disappointed that the US will place human rights in Tibet & China third place to trade & business. Apparently the US no longer cares about int'l human rights. But respect for human rights promotes stability & even good business. Oppression only creates instability, protests & revolts. Chinese repression in Tibet has killed hundreds since March 2008 & thousands have been detained & tortured. Tibetans will continue protesting & resisting as long as China denies them basic human rights.

I found the Secretary's comment on human rights shocking, because human rights should not be denigrated to some isolated corner of our foreign policy, but an integral part of the discussion in ALL areas of our foreign policy - including global warming, the stability of the global financial system, and our trade relationship with China. We have such a huge task in front of us on global warming due in part to corruption and land grabs in China which have made it very easy for corrupt local officials to carry out environmental destruction all over China. We have a problem with the value of the yuan, which is a touchy subject in China due to massive poverty and their own domestic socioeconomic stratification, and manufacturing in the US has gone down the tubes because we can't compete with cheap labor in China resulting from their reliance on forced labor and extremely low paid labor from migrant workers who live on the margins of society in the big cities. Are these not all areas where "human rights" play an integral part?

I doubt that Madam Clinton has never been concerned with human rights. Just look at her involvement in the White House Travelgate debacle. And those were American citizens.

What kind of human right do Americans have when their savings are evaporated by those criminal financial institutions? What kinds of human right do the Iraqis and Afgans have when they are outrightly blasted out of their existance daily by USA military establishments on suspect of being terrorists. Those videos from Tibetan exiles were produced at this times because they intend to use the video to rejuvenate the ardent support they recieved from US in the past when they sense that the Obama administration is lowering its anti-China stance that is detrimental to their cause. Since Pomfret had been to China in the past, he should be back to China now to contrast what has since changed in
China.

Doesn't Secretary Clinton get her orders from the President regarding these kinds of issues? Her comments may or may not reflect her personal preferences for how to deal with China and Human Rights at this time. Just a wild guess - perhaps President Obama felt it necessary to clean up the U.S. human rights record before tackling China's. That and the fact that we need China's help in getting through this economic crisis.

That being said, I am disappointed that it wasn't addressed more strongly. My gut feeling is that is not what Hillary would have preferred. Her record on human rights in the past does not seem to jibe with this new stance. I believe it is more reflective of how the President wishes to proceed.

http://www.savetibet.org/

Please consider asking Secretary Clinton to begin negotiations with the PRC on a mutual extradition treaty under international law. This would allow local government officials who embezzle funds and escape to the US to be returned for trial, as well as US criminals who try to escape to the US, and the human traffickers on both sides. The main difficulty with such extradition is the fear that the accused might be tortured, mistreated, or not have fair trials. So assurances would have to be provided that the rule of law would obtain on both sides. It is absurd to look only at the Chinese record on capital punishment or torture when the US recently has been about the same. A treaty might force each to improve. I think it is important to do that now, since the US evidently plans to release the Uighur terrorists into the US and not return them to China. This will only provoke the ultranationalists in China who would think of retaliating against the US and not at all promote the fight against international terrorists or the rule of law that we all seek. Those who believe that human rights and Western-style law and democracy should prevail over ordinary politics and trade must understand that protests will not work except to increase central government power, but what will work are slow steps to negotiate concrete issues where each side can benefit, such as an extradition treaty.

"As she said: "We know what they are going to say because I've had those kinds of conversations for more than a decade with Chinese leaders.""

The main reason Hilary Clinton would rather not refer to human rights, these days, is so she be not reminded of her own country's appalling, in fact degrading record on human rights.

As Hypocrite1 has pointed out: "If the Chinese rebuffed Hilary along her side to the reporters with these topics, where would Hillary have her FACE hidden?"

I bet the lady would not, these days, touch the topic of corruption in business and government with a ten foot pole either. Only an extraterrestrial being or life form could possibly wonder why.

We, Tibetans in and outside Tibet, are most shocked and disappointed by Secretary Clinton's consideration of human rights issue as secondary to other issues like economic ... Secretary Clinton is a key advocate of human rights, be it in the States or at the international level. We believe that China should be involved in international issues (like the ongoing economic crisis), BUT without giving price to more human important issues like human rights. We request Secretary Clinton to be back on her good service to humanity (as an advocate of human rights) by her future words and deeds. Please visit www.tibet.net to learn more about Tibet. The website is in several languages.
A Tibetan, in dedication to my countrymen in Tibet - now a 'hell on earth'.

Israel has essentially a blank check by this government to do as it pleases, from invading other countries to establishing apartheid in the West Bank to possible ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank, no matter whether a Republican or Democrat is in the White House. Israeli human rights abuses, including killing many civilians during its invasion of Gaza are condoned or ignored by most Democrats and Republicans in Congress. People, such as Jimmy Carter, who criticizes certain Israeli policies, including apartheid, are condemned by most Democrats in Congress.

Many Arab allies of the United States in the Middle East are also highly repressive toward dissenters. They may receive a mild rebuke from administration officials or members of Congress. Yet nothing serious and this is mostly ignored by neo-cons too.

Yet many of these same Democrats and Republicans in Congress who condone or ignore Israeli or Arab human rights abuses, as well as human rights abuses by the Bush-Cheney regime, which apparently will not be investigated, let alone punished, go ballistic whenever there are any human rights abuses in Tibet. Perhaps John Pomfret can explain this lack of consistency.

Reading Pomfret write about the torture footage from Tibet "It's distributed by the Tibetan government-in-exile so one could question its reliability" causes me to question Pomfrets sense of ethics and morality. Have you looked at the clips? Have you been to Tibet? Any idiot who has spent a few months in Tibet knows this is an authentic clip of thugs, under the direction of the Chinese Communist Party, beating people after their arrest. These people have just been arrested, they are bound, on the ground, and they are being beaten.

See here: http://blip.tv/file/1903155/
and here:
http://footage.tibetanbridges.com/

So now we are blaming the victims of torture? Questioning the motives of people who risk their lives to smuggle video made by the CCP itself, or one of organs? Pomfret should apologize if he has a moral bone in his body. It is morally disgusting to question the 'reliability' of this video. Its like Americans saying during WWII "Oh we don't have pictures of German death camps" The evidence presented by Jews "Wasn't Reliable" I guess.

Hilary should see the video clip and see whether she could ignore gross Human Rightsa abuses in Tibet.

Following video clip was smuggled recently out of Tibet of depicting the "brutality of Chinese in Tibet".

All people who care about Human right should see this 7 minute video clip of Chinese torturing Tibetan and jugde for themselve from their conscience.

http://media.phayul.com/?av_id=147&av_links_id=323

Maybe Sec. Clinton has reason to back off on the obligatory U.S. human rights scoldings of China. After all, that rhetoric is for the U.S. public's consumption, not really for China's.

And, do you know what Clinton is telling China in private? She didn't give us that information, did she? Well, that's a secret.

Pomfret: is it real tough time nowadays to earn a living in the media business by being a honest person in the US?

Pomfret: where have you been? After being quiet for 2 months, you suddenly pop up with this very late topic. That is surprise 1. As far as I know, Hillary, back in China, have had earful from the Chinese on American human right abuse: GITMO, Abu Ghraib, million death of innocent Iraqis, CIA secret prisions, torture in the US .etc. If the Chinese rebuffed Hillary along her side to the reporters with these topics, where would Hillary have her FACE hidden? Of course, the Chinese wants to save her face for her first trip as the US state secretary. Plus Hillary is smart enough and would not solicit humilation in public. Both side did nice diplomacy. The surprise 2 therefore is that regarding your mental status since so many people have had high remarks on your intelligence, particularly from your Chinese friends. I guess that you want to be the No.1 hypocrite in the United States.

Thank you Mr. Pomfret for your genuine concern about human rights inside China. I, for one, was perplexed to why Hillary said what she said. But the reality is it probably does not matter after all, in my opinion, because only the chinese people themselves can affect changes for themselves over time.
The Chinese government is currently an authoritarian/totalitarian government in nature that came out of a much worse communist regime 30 years ago. Even though the Chinese people have since gained huge ground in social liberty they are continually bondaged by the government in political rights. This is a fact. The human rights record of chinese government is simply indefensible.
That, however, does not mean human rights in china is the paramount and overriding issue when dealing with China. The followup statements from the administration after Hillary's seem to strike a good balance.

There are real human rights issues everywhere, in China as well as in the U.S. There are people who have genuine concerns about the well-beings of other human beings; there are also people who want to use human rights as a stick to beat a competitor. Let's ask one question: if the human rights crowd in the West truly concern about the the well-being of the Chinese people, why the Chinese, by a large majority, don't want to have anything to do with this crowd? Is this because they can see through their pretense and hypocrisy?

Believe or not, when you use other people's human rights as your bargaining chip and a tool for strategic maneuver, they will know it and will not like it.

Believe or not, the one American who has done the most (by far) for China's human rights is Richard Nixon -- by opening up China and helping it get on the track of economic and social progress. I know Nixon did not have the admiration of Human Rights Watch, but that's the truth.

Sorry, somehow the link to this informative article got deleted.
Statement submitted to the Congressional-Executive Commission on China
Roundtable on Tibet, 13 March 2009 by Warren W. Smith
http://cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/2009/20090313/20090313_Smith_submitted.pdf?PHPSESSID=9fd3d9812f0994f83ca68db6f6aaf15a

Some historical context:

http://one-just-world.blogspot.com/2008/11/does-tibet-really-have-historical-claim.html

Wow, welcome back Mr. Pomfret. You have been silent for awhile and your fans like us are concerned. We thought the Chinese kidnapped you and sent you to a secrete prison. Thank god that is not true. Welcome back anyway.

If the ‘free’ world would want to maintain, or rather regain some credibility for its purported principles and tenets of upholding freedom, justice and the letter of the law, then it certainly won’t be earning any merit on that score by kowtowing to a brutal and racist regime, which displays very little in the way of civility.

For one, Tibet is an
illegally occupied country, by Legal Definition and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN Charter!

Is the trade Dollar with such a regime, in the long term, in our best interest and more treasured than principles of freedom and justice for one country; Tibet?
Whereas it could quite easily be the case that one day we’re the tyrannized and oppressed and yet the world just turns its back on us; forsaken and betrayed just for the sake of lucrative trade with our oppressors.

This sycophancy by our politicians has taken on such unseemly degree of cowardice, and become such an indecorous spectacle, that the Chinese have become so emboldened that they’re gloating in rubbing our faces in the proverbial, and milking our spinelessness for what they possibly can.

The long term result is our weakness and shame, and impotence in dealing with any tyranny, let alone the loss of face and credibility!

Some more Must Reading by Warren Smith

Hardly surprising the neo-cons at "The Washington Post" who supported the war in Iraq and ignore human rights violations by Israel would criticize Secretary Clinton for downplaying human rights in her talks with Chinese officials. When it comes to aggression and human rights violations with neo-cons, the main issue is the country involved, not principles per se.

Pomfret and others who express such concern about human rights in China need to specifically state what they think the United States government should do in this area. Otherwise this and similar articles are too vague in referring to "human rights" to have much validity.

I was shocked by our top diplomat's statement, too. Have we heard China say much of anything? They just do whatever they want to do 'quietly'. Sometimes, they protest against us with words or actions just to entertain us. No statement is always better than a wrong statement.