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As Rome Burns, China Won't Talk

So the global economy is in meltdown, Europe and China are both facing the prospect of a seriously ugly downturn. They'd scheduled a summit for this week. You'd think both sides would want to participate. Not China.

China canceled it. The reason? Because several European leaders -- including French President Nicolas Sarkozy -- have recently met with the Dalai Lama. Whoa! Now there's a solid reason if I ever saw one. You meet with Buddhist spiritual leader, we blow off key meeting on future of the world.

There is still something of the petulant 3-year-old here, brazenly pursuing something that is decidedly not in her interests. It illustrates the fact that China's foreign policy, its strategy and its world view are anything but mature.

First, it's not like China doesn't need friends right now. It's economy is in crisis. More than half of all of China's toy manufacturers are belly up. The Federation of Hong Kong Industries says that one quarter of its members' 70,000 plants in China have closed or will soon close. After annual double-digit growth for the past decade, China's economy is only expected to grow by about 9 percent this year, if that. Next year could be a lot worse. Over the weekend President Hu Jintao told a gathering of Communist Party members that the global crisis could undermine the country's economy and threaten the party's capacity to rule China.

Europe is China's largest market. But the Europeans are restless. European businesses want to know why they sell more stuff to Switzerland than to China. Cancel a summit and these questions will only grow louder.

Second, it's not like a meeting between Sarkozy and the Dalai Lama is going to amount to much for the Tibetan cause anyway. It's not going to result in the withdrawal of Chinese troops from the Tibetan plateau or independence for Tibet, right? And it certainly won't resuscitate the moribund talks that representatives of the Dalai Lama have been holding with China for several years now. Those talks are practically dead.

So why did Hu really blow off Sarko?

The stated Chinese reason in this case bears scrutiny because of its brazen honesty. According to wire service reports, Qin Gang, a spokesman at the China's foreign ministry, acknowledged to reporters that France was being held to a higher standard than, say, the United States, whose leaders routinely huddle with the Dalai Lama and barely suffer a slap on the wrist.

"France keeps saying that China is a strategic partner. Then it should do more than other countries, mean what it says and set a high standard for its behavior," Qin said.
"We hope France will make efforts to honor its commitments and not do things that harm the feelings of the Chinese people or undermine the foundation for the two countries' cooperation."

Chinese tea-leaf readers have focused on another reason: They've wheeled out the old bogeyman of Chinese political calculus, claiming that unidentified "hard-liners" were behind the cancellation. That's rich.

The reality is that China just screwed this one up.

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Comments (287)

voter Author Profile Page:

To Peter34

What you have said is very true. I have learned that I cannot fully trust the Western media especially on issues related to China.

voter Author Profile Page:

To THMAK

Thank you for your reply anyway. I'll try and find it somehow.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Jaihind: When you said "I hope THMAK is getting a better salary than you do." you are anouncing to the world that you are paid just to post here because what you all are thinking about is just pay, pay, pay. Don't forget to keep on posting here. Otherwise you wouldn't get paid and nobody will bail you out. I hope you undertand.

Peter34 Author Profile Page:

It really takes us a lot of time to realize that there are many paid FreeTibet druggies launching regularly a demonizing-China campaign in every corner of English website,BBC,Wapo,AsianTimes and the like.They are trained with good English writing skills and professional in similar ways.Comparatively,the pro-China comments are sparkled randomly and have no concerted tone.Those comments are all simply out of indignation as a plain Chinese hurt by others malicious attention.The good thing,though,here is that Chinese wakes up when they do the comparison between what Western makes China look like and what Chinese witness in person.Dalai Lama understand one thing:Tibet issue is for Chinese to solve.So that's enough. Thanks for Pomfret and Tibet druggies' contribution.In a IT era, people can form independent judgment more easily from all sources.You cannot even trick Chinese oversea,how could you trick Chinese at their homeland?

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Voter: Since Dummy4peace is so supportive of Mr Liu, ask him to direct you to the site carrying the 08 charter.

PatrickInBeijing Author Profile Page:


Mr. Pomfret writes as always from his point of view which is Euro-centric.

He could ask why would France insult a country that it wants to ask help from? Why do they consider meeting with someone unimportant like the Dali Lama to be more important than asking China to help deal with the global financial crisis?

He could have said that France just blew it.
Sarko really screwed up.

anakin1992 Author Profile Page:

DUMMY4PEACE

"The sad thing is that when we arrested a corrupted official with strong evidence, China arrested a brave savior, Mr. Liu Xiaobo for trying to save your country"

why do you think him as a savior? what qualified him to save china? chairmao was used to be our savior. it is hard to convince me that there would be another one.

anakin1992 Author Profile Page:

DUMMY4PEACE

"This country is a big melting pot that welcomes all the people from around the world with determination to make changes to their lives."

you might be 100% correct on this point in many sense. but you can not implement this in any other places on this planets. the main protagonist in your comment is "this country". don't underestimate this point.

anakin1992 Author Profile Page:

DUMMY4PEACE

for illinois case, the gov. was in prison, but his deeds have nothing to do with democracy which can not root out corruption.

over the past 60 years, illinois politics has been a special one, can you tell me how democracy resolve it? let us not span over 60 years, just let me know how many of pre-governors were sacked?

anakin1992 Author Profile Page:

DUMMY4PEACE

when you saw 5 stunned chinese visitors in DC, did you ask how they could have had that disbelief? let us talk about some scenarios:

1: couple of demonstrators and pure democratic action
2: demonstration in front of WH, no bystanders at all
3: demonstration in front of WH, why not someone comes out to stop it?
4: can such a demonstration resolve the issue?

so in which sense were those stunned? if you only judged the stunning and conjured up your own conclusion, it might be too mean.

do you live democracy? being in a democratic country, it does not mean you can or ever understand the democracy.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

Unfortunately, what marks the difference between humans and animals is greed. Wherever there are people, not only do we have corruptions but also honorable deeds. An animal parent can sacrifice self to protect its young and so do human parents.

What we have is a democratic system with fair justice to control corruptions. Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested on December 9 and was released on $4500 bail after a court hearing on the same day. Now his state is trying to impeach him before he does more harm to Illinois as an ineffective governor. Everyone is presumed innocent till proven guilty. The sad thing is that when we arrested a corrupted official with strong evidence, China arrested a brave savior, Mr. Liu Xiaobo for trying to save your country.

The strength of a young democracy such as the US is that we don’t’ believe in fate. We make our own fate. This country is a big melting pot that welcomes all the people from around the world with determination to make changes to their lives. You have to take things that matter to you and your family into your own hands. Change your society or get out of there for a better life for your children and grandchildren. That’s just human nature, which has been practiced for millions of years since homo sapiens started to migrate from Africa to many parts of the world for a better life. No matter how grand we think we are, in the history of Planet Earth, we are just a speck of dust. You can lie to yourself all you want, but when you tuck your children in bed at night, don’t you ever wish you could have given them a better life?

I am sure I am not the only one that is interested in reading that open letter, which put Mr. Liu Xiaobo into jail. I do hope he gets to keep both kidneys. This is such an unspeakable crime all for greed. When will more Chinese truly care about Chinese?

voter Author Profile Page:

To THMAK

Can you direct me to the site where I can read the full "charter 08" document by Mr Liu Xiaobo and others. English or Chinese is fine.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace: Control is control. You cannot say control is freedom. I hope you understand. WP advocates freedom of the press, freedom of speech, the USA Constitution, and freedom of this and that, but it exercises censor of the press and speech by blocking comments. What is you sense of justice by using the excuse of private company to justify the violation. You instigate that any private instituion can violate freedom of the press and speech and all kinds of human rights. Under the USA national security law, media right cannot shut the door to government investigation of security information leaks. I hope you understand. If you can read Chinese, Chinese newspapers report protests against their government for this and that throught out the country. So you say Wash DC residents are as bad as the Beijingness for having no representations in their government. The government officials are people living in the localities they serve. So they represent the people in the government. What you say "everyone raised their hand to cast their vote." is similar to ALL Americans obey and fund the decision to invade Iraq even though some of them oppose it. You quote "I shouldn’t compare a democratic country with a communist country, because the difference is day and night." The difference is the democratic country is the root cause of the present worldwide economic disaster while the communist country is trying to save itself from being sucked into the economic catastrophy. I hope you understand.


If you can access internet or Wikipedia completely, you can search for District of Columbia or Washington, D.C. and visit many other places around the world for yourself. Talking democracy is one thing. “Do you live democracy?” is quite another. Unfortunately, Mr. Liu Xiaobo and many others’ intelligent suggestions fell on deaf ears and met iron fists. It’s a tragedy for all Chinese

alex65 Author Profile Page:

Jaihind wrote: "...(General)you are only a rather mediocre CCP prop dept clerk...
... hope THMAK is getting a better salary than you do."

Really? How did you find that out? I know some of them CCP clerks are lurking in the Internet but would never have thought I could be so privileged to read something from them.

Nice findings.


generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace,

Don't worry. when I become Chinese president that change will come.

Do you read Zhuang Zi?

All matters in the world come naturally, when time applies. Whatever happens all by cause, like China today and US future.

Do not live your days worrying the sky will fall down, when the change is coming in time, none can stop it, we human but can only learn how to submit to our fate.

Faith does not rely on what people do,
but what people believe.

I bless you that you are a good person, your words are constructive. God bless!

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace,

You said: "I mean meaningful representation. I have seen pictures of voting for the new Chinese president or party chairman, in which everyone raised their hand to cast their vote. Who dare not?"

Of course, duh. If anyone don't raise his hand then they will be out of job, and that means they would not have easy chance to get a bite on tax payer's money, as US people bail out their banking people, we Chinese bail out our political leaders:)

Okay, US have more puppets so people vote to decide who gets to play, but Chinese experienced 5000 uninterrupted political history that we know anyway it is a puppet show, why not just get one and spend the whole night quickly, instead of all those foreplays, just shut the light, all the same, boom! 1.3 Billion!

What you think we Chinese are? Californians?
Have you looked at our actors? Jackie and Jet...
Anyone can act like American?

Or you think politics is some kind of romance,
western ladies need roses, candle dinner, wine...
Chinese need a bag of rice and bucket eggs,
then deal! Boom!:)

And another way to think outside the box,

We Chinese only have one political party to corrupt our nation,
You American have two... ha ha ha

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

To Dear JAIHIND,

I like John, only in an annoying way. That's the reason I'm posting here.

I don't work for CCP, they don't pay me a dime of RMB. I swear to Dalai Lama.

I also like the way Dalai Lama representing himself, a peace figure, but according to his covered plots he walks like Laipi Hama:)

You guys still selling the Free Tibet shirt?

I have some friends in China begging me to get one for them, it's a piece of China Separation History, they are collecting them and wait for some years to auction on ebay.

Someone even sell the illegal copied shirts that are made in China:)

If you see Dalai next time, please tell him I said Hi and invite him for a drink, ha ha ha.

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

Dear General,
you wrote:

"If you don't speak, then no one will know you are an idiot just like Mr. Pomfret:)

ha ha ha"

Well, Mr. Pomfret has at least a column in the WP while you are only a rather mediocre CCP prop dept clerk...
What you have been posting didn't have any depth at all. I hope THMAK is getting a better salary than you do.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

I do understand that it takes time for ‘some’ Chinese to understand what ‘personal properties and individual rights’ mean. In many parts of the world, these rights are birthrights. Washington Post is a company, not a branch of our government. WP has the right to shut their door to anybody or even to our government. When you respect other’s right, yours is also honored.

It would be kind of funny for any Chinese to complain about our D.C.’s taxation without representation. District of Columbia is a special district of 177 square kilometers designated by our Constitution on July 16, 1790 as the capital of the United States of America. This was meant as an office park for all branches of our government. Too bad you can’t visit our capital or Wikipedia in person. During my last visit to D.C., five Chinese visitors were totally stunned by seeing several groups of protesters setting up stands and signs across the street from the White House. Their guide, also a Chinese man tried to explain something to the five men in disbelief.

On the other hand, Beijing occupies an area of 16,801.25 square kilometers, about 100 times as large as our D.C. Do Beijing residents have any representation in the Chinese government? Does any province, city, town or village have any representation in any part of the Chinese government? I mean meaningful representation. I have seen pictures of voting for the new Chinese president or party chairman, in which everyone raised their hand to cast their vote. Who dare not?

Of course, I shouldn’t compare a democratic country with a communist country, because the difference is day and night. If you can access internet or Wikipedia completely, you can search for District of Columbia or Washington, D.C. and visit many other places around the world for yourself. Talking democracy is one thing. “Do you live democracy?” is quite another. Unfortunately, Mr. Liu Xiaobo and many others’ intelligent suggestions fell on deaf ears and met iron fists. It’s a tragedy for all Chinese.

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

To Dear JAIHIND,

If you don't speak, then no one will know you are an idiot just like Mr. Pomfret:)

ha ha ha

ckk2008 Author Profile Page:


Jaihind
you wrote "A recent popular poll by IHT found that the Dalai Lama is the most respected world leader among Western Europeans and Americans".

White man supremacy mentality. The world is more than that. So it not the world but in the west.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

Episode 3: “You cannot govern a country’s foreign affairs only according to human rights.”

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/245504,kouchner-says-ministry-for-human-rights-was-bad-idea.html

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

Episode 2: “You meet the man? We indefinitely postpone the summit with EU.” (Chinese government)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/27/content_10418058.htm

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/26/europe/EU-EU-China-Dalai-Lama.php

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:
thmak Author Profile Page:

To Jaihind: France allowed the Tibetans to get close enough to be able to disrupt the Olympic procession could have separate the two such that the chance of disruption could not have taken place. By allowing disruption to occur, France is implicated in supporting the Tibetan movement. That is, France bullies China to start with. Sarkozy represents France and his action is that of a street corner bullying thug. Therefore France is the culprit and deserved the slap on the face by China. I hope you understand. President Bush represents USA attending the 2008 Olympic and didn't say anything in support of the Tibetan movement in China even under pressure. Britain recently confirms that Britain recognizes Tibet belongs to China for a long time till now. Germany doeen't say openingly supporting Tibetan movement. India doesn't openly support Tibetan movemnt. South American and African countries do not openly support Tibetan movement. Not all Eastern Europian and Europian countries support Dalai. That means Dalai is not popular in those countries. During Dalai' recent trip to Europe, not all countries receive him. So he is not the MOST RESPECTED world leader as you claimed because people realized he has no compassion, forebearance and tolerance as a Buddhist and as a leader compared to Gandhi and Tutu.. I hope you understand.

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

THMAK, apparently the IHT poll was not held in Eastern Europe but there is news from there as well:
http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2008/12/11/1656/

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

Hi THMAK, also good to see you again... :)

"France supported the Tibetan independent demonstrators to disrupt the 2008 Olympic procession in France,"

Who is "France"? There were pro-human rights and pro-Tibet individuals of French and other origins who demonstrated and disrupted the 2008 Olympic procession.

"threatened to boycot the 2008 Olympic if China doesn't talk with the Tibetan independent representatives on Tibetan independence"

Mr. Sarkozy who is not "France" but a contemporary French politician threatened to boycot the opening ceremony if the Chinese government would not engage in meaningful talks about the future of Tibet.
France supports meaningful autonomy of Tibet.
Please provide links to official statements by the French government in support of Tibetan independence.

"and grandiosely meet with the head of the so-called independent Tibetan exiled government Dalai Lama."

Yes, you are right. While the TGiE is fairly independent (at least of the CCP), the Dalai Lama is still its head, even though the prime minister is doing the day-to-day business.
Of late, I have been suggesting that the Dalai Lama should take up Indian citizenship as he is a transnational figure. Tibetans like Chinese live in all corners of the world now and there is no need for him to hold a Tibetan (or Chinese) passport.
Would you agree?
Tibetan politics should be completely stripped of any theocratic elements and become a full-blown multi-party democracy like anywhere else.

"China in return doesn't support any independent movements in France."

There is no part of France that is off-limits to independent media and turned into a virtual garrison.
In that sense, there is no comparison.

"You are wrong to say that "Dalai Lama enjoys worldwide respect"."

A recent popular poll by IHT found that the Dalai Lama is the most respected world leader among Western Europeans and Americans. That is about 500 to 600 million people. If they had done the survey in India, too, it would have been about 1.6 billion in total. And that is more than the population of China.

BTW: Hu Jintao ranked at the bottom.

voter Author Profile Page:

Mr. Pomfret, enough of this history. How about an article on the 400 Chinese citizens living inside China published "Charter 08" in the latest news?

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Jaihind: Glad to talk to you again. France supported the Tibetan independent demonstrators to disrupt the 2008 Olympic procession in France, threatened to boycot the 2008 Olympic if China doesn't talk with the Tibetan independent representatives on Tibetan independence and grandiosely meet with the head of the so-called independent Tibetan exiled government Dalai Lama. China in return doesn't support any independent movements in France. You are wrong to say that "Dalai Lama enjoys worldwide respect". He was indeed adorned as a puppet to harass China by countries such as France that want miserably to regain their past colonial glories and status. Your "worldwide" definition is narrowly restricted to the few faded colonial powers that are detested by the worldwide countries that were colonies in the past. Their total population is less than that of China. I hope you understand.


ckk2008 Author Profile Page:

Jaihind,
you wrote:
"The Dalai Lama enjoys worldwide respect with the single exception of China. China has no right to tell the rest of the world to not see a respected figure of his stature"
That is a sweeping statement. Please, they are also Muslims, Hindus, Christians, and so forth, i don't think they all share your personal affection and respect for the Dalai Lama. The Dalai lama is able to project the lower Tantric practice of peaceful composure, magnetizing (charismatic), wrathful aspect (political manipulating) and strength( stamina of 50 over years struggles for his Tibetan homeland). He has drawn many non-Tibetans into his cause. You are pretty involved, emotionally, at least.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

Sent you 5 links, JAIHIND. They were censored. The owner of the blog will not allow that discussion, "under freedom" (Chomsky).

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

"China's action reminds France that bully baby France is ugly and that the chance for France to regain France past colonial power by bullying other countries is over."

Oh, yes. A much bigger bully has taken over from poor baby...

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

THMAK,
you wrote:
"France started by bullying into the internal affairs of China by giving support to the Dalai Lama's independence movement and demanding concession from China."

Would you mind substantiating your claim?

What kind of support is France giving to the Dalai Lama's independence movement?
What concessions did France demand?

Please provide links other than anti-cnn.

The Dalai Lama enjoys worldwide respect with the single exception of China. China has no right to tell the rest of the world to not see a respected figure of his stature.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Robertjames1: You are so ignorantly wrong to say that "China sounds like the US when it gives other nations ultimatums.". It is France that sounds like the US when it gives other nations ultimatums. France started by bullying into the internal affairs of China by giving support to the Dalai Lama's independence movement and demanding concession from China. China doesn't give support to any independent movement inside France. You are utterly wrong to say that "China will punish Europe if it does not get its way.". China just doesn't want to havge close relation with countries that are hostile to her. I hope you understand. China's action reminds France that bully baby France is ugly and that the chance for France to regain France past colonial power by bullying other countries is over.

fjunk99 Author Profile Page:

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/yauyat2/11312095

看歐洲主流媒體──特別是法國媒體的評論,大都歸因於中國惱羞成怒後的隨意而為,<華盛頓郵報>的John Pomfret在一篇題為As Rome Burns, China Won't Talk還語帶嘲諷說:“這活像一個3歲小孩子使性子一樣,死皮賴臉地追要一些東西。這表明這樣一個事實:中國的外交政策、其戰略和世界眼光一點都不夠成熟。”

說“中國的外交政策、其戰略和世界眼光一點都不夠成熟。”我不知這位John Pomfret是不懂裝懂,還是有意借題發揮,而不顧歷史事實。環顧世上主要的大國,辦外交能如中國般細密、周詳、深謀和遠慮的幾乎沒有,北京的每一個微小的動作都是深思熟慮後的結果,這次“大動作”,更預示着外交策略的重大轉變

robertjames1 Author Profile Page:

China sounds like the US when it gives other nations ultimatums.

The implication is that China will punish Europe if it does not get its way.

There had better be some discussions behind closed doors so that China learns that bully boys are ugly. The US is learning that the world loathes its recent bully boy behaviour.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

On who needs whom, as Rome burns and China buys less.

"NEW YORK: The spiraling financial crisis has hit American businesses where it hurts: exports are falling as foreign economies stumble, undercutting a pillar of the economy.

The trade deficit widened in October for the first time in three months as exports dropped 2.2 percent, with big declines in sales of American-made products like automobiles and consumer goods. China, one of the larger sources of export demand, has cut back sharply, the Commerce Department reported Thursday.

...

U.S. businesses came to rely on exports as Americans cut their spending and put off major purchases, increasing pressure on companies to increase foreign sales to make ends meet. But American-made goods were less attractive after the dollar strengthened in October against major world currencies. In addition, the economic downturn is taking a toll on foreigners' willingness to pay big shipping costs for American goods.

The trade deficit rose 1.1 percent in October, more than economists had expected, to $57.2 billion from $56.6 billion in September. It was the first trade report from the Commerce Department since the stock market plummeted in October and the first widening of the deficit since July."


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/11/business/usecon.php

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

To joewashington1,

I would like to see John do a report on annual budget of US on Military Technology and Green Ecology Studies. So this way everyone knows where US politician is truly focuses on.

The US economy is caused by US politicians and Wall street Executives, I don't see China did anything to it. Why blame China?

If your greedy Unions system did not corrupt your nation, then surely US would have strength to compete with world, and your auto giants are but rotten flesh that lost their war to Japan auto, and in years they work with gas corp and politician to burn the world and making the greed, nor they care about your consumer, or green, or better product. they only care about money.

And now they ask for bail out, use their work force threat US government, and so they could get a bite on the meat, and they still don't have a plan, and continually cutting people that would hurt their pocket.

Why China got involved on anything that you guys did to your own people and world?

One day WP will show no mercy to their puppets who can not dance or sing to attract people.

Bottom line is we are all the same, whether worse or not.

Politic is just a as.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Joewashington1: I hope Pomfret and other China bashing people agree with you.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

MIBROOKS27 - I feel the pain too...and empathize with you, but the sky is not falling. The pendulum moved too far right over the last eight years. When combined with unlimited capital, an anything goes business culture and spiraling asset values, deepened the boom bust cycle.

However, blaming China, India, Russia and the rest of the emerging markets for their cheap labor cost, etc. is misplaced focus. It is in the USA best interest for China, India, etc. to advance their societies so they can purchase our higher value products and technology.

Why can't the US develop and commercializing the best alternative energy vehicles, less polluting power plants, mini nuke plants and sustainable technology?

Why can't the US position itself as a nation on energy/green and lead that effort?

The USA has led every major post industrial type of technology revolution building and creating major global industries. It is time for everyone to focus on that goal and forget about the low level assembly type labor. Let it go to Mexico or China or wherever the owners want to take it.

Let's focus on entrepreneurialism and innovation - the key USA competitive advantage/strength.

Obama, unleash the beast and lay the foundation for rest of this century.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

I did not realize this discussion was still ongoing. For all of the Pomfret critics, you must admit it has generated a significant discussion, a discussion that demonstrates people still have a lot of blinders and filters on how they perceive US/CHINA relationship. To analyze and discuss the relationship of China to the West through the Dalai Lama issue is a great mistake.

Read the US/CHINA SED dialogue comments on US Treasury website. You will see that the US/CHINA relationship will be the key strategic relationship of the 21st century, and not just economic. Trust is being built on both sides. Both sides are learning from and about each other in greater depth.

As China adopts, hopefully, more pluralistic aspects and outlets for public dissent and discourse across its population, not just 70M Party members, it will eventually view criticism as an asset and opportunity, albeit annoying, but healthy. The acceptance of that cultural attribute, from an Emperor or strongman-centric society, will be the most difficult to adopt. It will have to be led from the Central Committee.

Ironically, when viewing the Party Congresses on several of my trips to China, I've noted a very healthy, almost Western Parliamentarian type of discussion with delegates voting. Of course, the most boisterous or potentially disagreeable discussions are always held out of site behind closed doors. Then a decision is rendered and delegates fall in line. It doesn't have the delightful fistfights or shoe throwing episodes of the Taiwan congresses, but it is entertaining and the gap is closing.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace: Control access is control access. There are different shades of control. People adapt to one type and not the other. So they have bad opinion of the other. That is bias. I hope you understand. I hope you know the phrase "Too many cooks spoil the brooth". So some cooks will be suppressed no matter how reasonable their reason is. If they keep complaining or taking actions. They will be treated accordingly. This applies to the political scene too. You have a good opinion of your government. So are the Chinese. "elected" governmnet officials can’t see themselves as people’s servants" either. Many corrupt elected government oficials in USA have existed throughout the years. One recent example is the elected official in Illinoi who wants to sell Obama's vacated government seat. "We write open letters to our government every day online.". So can the Chinese. "It’s inconceivable for us to think we can be arrested for communicating with our government". This depends on what kind of communication. "Here, if we are taxed, we have the right to speak.". Have you heard of "Taxation without representstion" complaint from the people of the District of Columbia in USA? "President-elect Obama even set up a new website to ask for ideas from every American on how to improve our country.", similarily asked by the Chinese Premier Wen JiaBao. "This is the real respect every citizen deserves". I agree.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

To make THMAK feel better, I can tell you that you are not the only one that is rejected by Pomfret. He sometimes rejects my comments, too. He is the owner of this page and he has the right to decide whom he wants to invite. This is not the censorship the Chinese grew up with. Many Chinese seem to perceive everything you have no control of as part of your government. Not in America! Washington Post is a commercial entity, which hires Pomfret to host this webpage. Perhaps Mr. Pomfret just wants us to think or type twice before we post that particular comment. Chinese people are famously patient so you might be able to understand his reason. I believe you are not lying at all, because you are telling us what you know. And, so do I. I know we are going in 'funny circles', but we are moving after all.

Since we are living in two very different worlds, it’s hard to communicate and it’s easy to misunderstand each other. Even within your own culture, Chinese police just arrested veteran dissident Liu Xiaobo after his online publication of an open letter to the government from hundreds of prominent Chinese intellectuals. I really hope this modern China will not crush these intellectuals, the smartest of your population. That will be another tragedy for China. If your government officials can perceive themselves as public servants, they won’t feel like they lost face in any way towards new ideas. The problem is that they are not elected by the people so they can’t see themselves as people’s servants. We write open letters to our government every day online. It’s inconceivable for us to think we can be arrested for communicating with our government. Here, if we are taxed, we have the right to speak. President-elect Obama even set up a new website to ask for ideas from every American on how to improve our country. This is the real respect every citizen deserves.

JAIHIND Author Profile Page:

Hi guys,

funny reading through the posts. Basically, it is going in circles as always - everyone having his opinion and sticking with it...

Isn't it beautiful how everyone can hold onto his opinion and voice it freely?

In China they have just locked up Liu Xiaobo, a literary critic, for calling for political and legal reforms. And in Xingtai, Shandong, locals have been put in mental asylums for complaining...

How lucky we are to live in the West! Even Chinese bloggers can criticize and complain to their hearts' longing...

polaris11201 Author Profile Page:

Six hundreds exiled Tibetans from all over the world gathered in Dharmsala to hold a meeting to map future path of Tibet. The conference ended up without any new results after days of discussion. Their evil intention of deciding the fate of six million Tibetan people failed, which was the biggest joke this year.

Although Dalai clique spares no effort to advocate their proposition to western media, which frequently make an issue on Tibet, hoping to increase their influence, western media reported more that the clique was divided against itself, for each faction voiced its own opinion respectively via western media.

It’s impossible for the disunited meeting of these exiled Tibetans to decide the fate of Tibet. The real goal of it is to put pressure on Chinese government. However, the government has expressed earlier the refusal of concession, so those exiled ones just entertained themselves by holding the meeting.

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

I strongly recommend Chinese President Hu to meet the rebel leader of Corsica( a province wants to separate from France).

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

excuse me, Mr.Pomfret!!! I want to ask you, if a Chinese official meets a person(that symbolizes a support for him) who want to separate or threaten US(such as Ben Laden), I wannna ask you what your country will response? Nothing? 强烈建议那国领导人会见一下本拉登,看看美国怎么反映,不知Mr.Pomfret是否还能说出这么傻逼的话来。

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

excuse me, Mr.Pomfret!!! I want to ask you, if a Chinese official meets a person(that symbolizes a support for him) who want to separate or threaten US(such as Ben Laden), I wannna ask you what your country will response? Nothing? 强烈建议那国领导人会见一下本拉登,看看美国怎么反映,不知Mr.Pomfret是否还能说出这么傻逼的话来。

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

I strongly recommend Chinese President Hu to meet the rebel leader of Corsica( a province wants to separate from France).

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

excuse me, Mr.Pomfret!!! I want to ask you, if a Chinese official meets a person(that symbolizes a support for him) who want to separate or threaten US(such as Ben Laden), I wannna ask you what your country will response? Nothing? 强烈建议那国领导人会见一下本拉登,看看美国怎么反映,不知Mr.Pomfret是否还能说出这么傻逼的话来。

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

excuse me, Mr.Pomfret!!! I want to ask you, if a Chinese official meets a person(that symbolizes a support for him) who want to separate or threaten US(such as Ben Laden), I wannna ask you what your country will response? Nothing? 强烈建议哪国领导人会见一下本拉登,看看美国怎么反映,不知Mr.Pomfret是否还能说出这么傻逼的话来。

taoshunjun Author Profile Page:

excuse me, Mr.Pomfret!!! I want to ask you, if a Chinese official meets a person(that symbolizes a support for him) who want to separate or threaten US(such as Ben Laden), I wannna ask you what your country will response? Nothing? 强烈建议那国领导人会见一下本拉登,看看美国怎么反映,不知Mr.Pomfret是否还能说出这么傻逼的话来。

frak Author Profile Page:

Sowelaaa, the REAL reason they want to fly nuclear Predators on patrol of the Canadian border 24-7 is to prepare for the fleeing draft dodgers from the coming planned war with China..After all, what better way to end a debt with a neighbor than through a thermonuclear war?? I like the Dalai Lama, but he is a well-known CIA agent with ties to the Mob and the ancient sacred text smuggling market, ..All the old buildings and temples are crumbling, people are covering themselves with flour and dust, and the block party is filled with smoke..

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace: China doesn't want to join any world club that is hostile to her. Using "benefits" as baits and using "responsibilities" as an instrument to subdue China is unacceptable to China and any country. I hope you understand. China is not and doesn't want to be a superpower. SO don't forcibly put China in the superpower position and force China to assume the superpower responsibilities. You should go to China to observe firsthand how those migrant workers and the displaced Olympic and Three Gorges Dam people are settled before you vent your opinion. Of course not everyone is satisfied as in every other places. The world over recognize Tibet and ZinJiang are provinces of China. You are not "responsible" by denying China the right to build road to those provinces to develop those regions and to protect them from hostile infiltration. USA webs forbid the transmission of certain information or access to those information. Pomfret's column censors any offensive comment. I used one but not offensive word in this post to you previously and was censored. So you say that Americans are denied complete access to WWW and their thoughts are contained.


thmak Author Profile Page:

To Alex65: You should say that Pomfret over reacts to China's slap on France by using phrases such as "petulent 3-year old","old bogeyman",unaccceptable as a columnist. France gave Dalai Lama a higher level of honor than before, violating any promise he made to China on Tibet, specially he is acting as president of the EU. He is acting out to show EU is a world power by acting out like a street corner hustler by insulting people around, as if France was in the colonial era. That is what freedom and democracy are. AS to the war settlement fund, USA was a new country in the world scene and not quite adapt to the colonial and world power politics. USA demanded the booty without firing a shot. So giving back is not a benevolence. If USA really care at that time, USA should fight to prevent the Europian colonial from plundering of the world, living up to USA ideal of freedom, democracy and human right, "All men are created equal".

alex65 Author Profile Page:

I object to any personnal attack to Mr. Pomfret.

I agree with Mr. Pomfret that the government of China over-reacted (even though faced with a grand provocation from Sarkozy) this time.

alex65 Author Profile Page:

I want people to remember that President Bush displayed his (and through him the Americans) friendship towards the Chinese people when he insisted to go to the Beijing Olympic openning ceremony even amist the high cry of boycott immediately after the March riots (out of racial hatred towards the non-tibetans).

I want to remind people that the US government established fund (even though out of the shameless war settlement with China) to provide for Chinese students to come to the US for modern education in the early 20th century. None of the European countries did anything to help Chinese people except taking in all the dirty money.

factschecker Author Profile Page:

Pomfret is making a living bashing China. No way Washington Post is going to give him a prominent space if he were a balanced fair reporter. Heck, even John McCain can't find any support in the Post.

I find little news value in Pomfret's reporting because his views are always one sided. I recommend people to read the comments section to get better informed.

Dalai Lama is just a tool for the West to weaken China's stability. Dalai Lama and his theocracy rules committed atrocious human rights violation. Many Tibetans were enslaved before 1955. Almost one third of birth died very young during that time. Most people lived in poverty under Dalai Lama. Meeting with Dalai Lama is always a political calculation. Sarkozy overplayed his hands this time in his attempt to establish him as a significant world leader.

If there is one thing that the Chinese government and the people can agree on, it will be the Chinese sovereignty on Tibet. The US and the west have pursued this policy supporting Dalai Lama for over 50 years. It has not worked. It has cost millions in Taxpayer's money. I hope Obama will change course on this.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

The American media is extremely predictable. In their eyes, any country that has never been ruled by the West is bad(or "screwed up") and needs "improvement". Any country that had been ruled by the West and gained its independence by overthrowing its colonial master is even worse. Guess what? Russia and China are two of the very few countries that have never been ruled by the West. A few Chinese coastal cities were ruled by Western colonial powers, but 95% of China remained under Chinese rule. Vietnam and Zimbabwe are examples of the second kind. Western reporters like Pomfret probably don't even know how unbelievably arrogant and narrow-minded that is, especially in the 21st century. You know what, Mr. Pomfret? screwed up or not, it is probably not up to you and I to judge. In 10, 20 years, people will be able to give a proper assessment of what's happening now. In 2003, almost every American thought the invasion of Iraq was righteous. Only history will tell. I really hope you'll write another piece about this event in 10 years rather than trying to pass off your emotional rant as intelligent analysis. It serves no purpose and only invite ridicules as you are really giving Western "journalism" a bad name.

thmak Author Profile Page:

Pomfret: I would like to know why you supress may post that I submitted without warning and explantion. Don't tell me this is in China as some describe.

hawksmoor Author Profile Page:

@Citizenofthepost-Americanworld

That's basically what I think is happening, though I'm not so cynical as to think it is malicious like the devil and Christ. It is merely politically and economically expedient to urge China to make major purchases/contracts during this financial crisis, because of China's relatively "primitive" banking and financial markets, they are more shielded then some western companies and aren't impacted to the same degree. The politicians now see this as the perfect time for all the "take responsibility in the world community" type of rhetoric. It doesn't really cost anything and there aren't any risks of backlash.

@Dummy4Peace
What organizations and responsibilities are you talking about? Could we have some specifics?

I absolutely agreed with you on internet filter elimination, it's an absurd practice that is doomed to failure.

What's the relevance of Hawaii to your point? Seems like you are saying because of the high quality of life and individual freedom that Hawaiians now enjoy, justifies sending in colonists, rewrite its native laws to allow only white landowners to vote, overthrow its government, annexes it as a state, and issue an apology resolution 100 years later. There probably aren't a lot of Hawaiians looking for independence, I guess that makes it alright?

We should recognize the mistakes of the past and learn from it, instead of using prosperity now as a facade to dress it up.

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

Dear Dummy4peace,

I think we all should concern about the culture thinking of Western and China.

That in west, critic usually is for purpose of improvement. But in China, modern China, which just regained the breath after culture revolution, critic is meant to harm to attack.

So Chinese are never allowed to criticized their parents, teachers, and officials. Even if they are wrong, by mistake or on a moral standard.

However there were a few ancient leaders like Confucius, Mencius, Tang Emperor, or Officials Wei Zhen and Sushi... who chose to speak for truth rather than serving their lord's, serving truth is a virtue in Chinese official livelihood, but only a few who dare to follow because they need to put their life and family lives at stake when their leaders loses their sense to punish.

But now, there are leaders in China, in every corp that they still rule in their common culture gene.
They would never understand why critic make them better. And that is the cost of their humiliation of the bad quality product or others.

Even for Chinese who set up business in west, and working for western people is different from working for Chinese. every Chinese knows that.

American worships equal rights, Chinese worships what they can do. I am Chinese, educated in China and US, both culture I love and hate, as a tumor on my chest I cannot cut off, but day to day to see how long I can survive it.

I am a Chinese, but I prefer to be different from all them, and love most Americans and hate a few.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

Quite a few Chinese posters complained about China not being invited to join the world club. Perhaps China doesn’t realize that a membership in any organization carries both member benefits and member responsibilities. You can’t take all the benefits and then say “We just want to mind our own business.” You can’t have it both ways. Being a superpower carries not only its perks but also its duties. But I do agree that if China can take care of its own domestically, it is doing a good thing for the world. Then when will China start to sincerely take care of those powerless migrant workers and those displaced for public projects such as the Olympics and Three Gorge Dam? However, all roads leading to Tibet or Uyghur are not for the benefits of the natives. They are used to transport ever-increasing Han Chinese migrants and PLA soldiers into the region to re-enforce the Chinese control, and the ignorant tourists to pay for visiting the Chinese modified version of Tibetan temples. Have you seen Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion? http://www.cryofthesnowlion.com/

When will China allow innocent people their right to think for themselves? If China allows its whole population complete access to the ‘world wide web’ (www), China will only benefit and learn how to produce the best products with the best safety and innovative ideas. Our critiques should have been thanked for, because it’s our time spent posting here. The attempt to ‘contain’ people’s thoughts is a losing battle, which China has wasted too much money and time on. Don’t you wish you could have accessed the whole world online, instead of a few allowed websites to do your job? China could have used the resources wasted on containing people’s thoughts for productive use. Then China wouldn’t have to send spies out to steal hi-tech secrets. If China fails, it’s not because there are too many ‘curses’ placed on China. It is because China chooses to go against human nature and for failure. Of course, no country is perfect, but one would want to avoid past mistakes if possible. Isn’t that common sense?

Someone should probably start to tally the ‘curses’ or bashing on the US to verify if they actually work against us. We take them with grace and make improvements. Wikipedia reports that “Over 6.4 million applications for the 2008 Diversity Visa Lottery were submitted — an increase of 0.9 million from the 5.5 million applications submitted in the 2007 Diversity Visa Lottery.” China is not allowed to participate, because too many Chinese are already applying for our green cards. I really doubt any Hawaiian is interested in becoming independent, while so many around the world are trying to join us in earnest. People’s desire for freedom and truth is nothing but human nature.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Citizenofthepost-Americanworld: I like your post. If instead of requesting bailout and handout and if every country "can do a good job domestically, that is the best thing it can do for the world,”. That applies to every citizens, every bussiness, in every country. If all behave themselves and treat other the way they treat themselves, the world will be peaceful. The GNP of China is much less than USA, Europe and the world. If is impossible for China to bailout the world recession. It China does, China would be devastated.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

hawksmoor writes: "I don't understand why there is a perception that China has ability or the responsibility to save the failing financial institutions."

As I see it, hawksmoor, the idea of a Saviour being endowed with the mission of redeeming the world is at the heart of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Many countries have given themselves a world-redeeming role: revolutionary France, Puritan America (the belief in a special mission that inspired the Puritan colonists has persisted to this day!), etc. This is just a quick nod at that part of the history of ideas.

Why should China be considered as having any such responsibility? --- I would expect that most Chinese, having always lived totally outside the Judeo-Christian tradition, would find the suggestion that China should, either odd, or amusing, or simply grotesque.

Personally, I find that suggestion grotesque, therefore most amusing. Yet I can understand the point of making it. It's like the West saying: "Come here, China! Listen... at this time of (world?) crisis, the world needs be saved. Would you not like to become and to be perceived as the greatest nation on earth? You could be, if only you agreed to save the world. Now let us show you how you can go about it…"

Now back to the history of ideas and to the trap (Matthew 4:8): “Again, the devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

I understand that is the trap China stubbornly refuses to fall into. If I am not mistaken, that is why China’s leaders keep on repeating: "China does not aspire to be, nor will it ever be, the world's superpower." ... “China can only save itself …If China can do a good job domestically, that is the best thing it can do for the world,”

One could also refer to “The Frog and the Ox”, that famous fable by Jean de la Fontaine, originally by that old Greek Aesop. But let’s leave that for some other time, shall we?

All the best!

alex65 Author Profile Page:

To Mischipotles: I hope you do not base your judgement on the tibetan issue on the "1.2M" number. This number is NOT materially backed up by any credible source. If you are willing to research the "1.2M" is even discredited by someone who used to work with the tibetans in exile and tried to verify this very number.

However this does exclude the reasonable assumption that far more tibetans than Han-Chinese have died during the long conflict. Contrary to the accusation, the government of China, brutal as can be, has not been proved to have carried out a policy of genocide in Tibet.

hawksmoor Author Profile Page:

@ Citizenofthepost-Americanworld

I don't understand why there is a perception that China has ability or the responsibility to save the failing financial institutions. It seems, at least to me, much of this comes from China's large holding of American treasury bonds, but aren't the fact that China has these bonds means it already has poured those money into the U.S.?

And as have been pointed out by others, China may have a large GDP, but per capita it still lags far behind western nations. When Chinese economic growth slows, it will face a lot challenges domestically.

@Againstbiasedreports

I think, perhaps, you misunderstood what I meant. As Mischitpotles recognizes, it's a parody.
And I understand people might be averse America's policies, but I don't think people outside U.S. hate American citizens.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

More on Rome burning, and on China talking and saving the world.

China Shuns Investments in West’s Finance Sector

HONG KONG (NY Times)— The chairman of China’s sovereign wealth fund said on Wednesday that China had no plans for further investments in Western financial institutions, nor did it have any plans to “save” the world through economic policies.

The comments by Lou Jiwei, the chairman and chief executive of the China Investment Corporation, are the clearest signal yet that after taking heavy losses on initial investments in the Blackstone Group, Morgan Stanley and Barclays, state-run Chinese institutions have no appetite for further purchases in this sector.

“Right now we do not have the courage to invest in financial institutions because we do not know what problems they may have,” Mr. Lou said as part of a panel discussion on the second and final day of the Clinton Global Initiative conference here.

Asked whether China might pursue economic policies aimed at saving the world, Mr. Lou said that the country’s leaders had a narrower focus. “China can only save …If China can do a good job domestically, that is the best thing it can do for the world,” he said.

Laura Tyson, who served as chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Clinton, said at the same panel as Mr. Lou that the current crisis would give further impetus to Asia’s rise in economic importance.

“It’s going to accelerate the move of economic power to Asia,” she said. “It was under way before, but this will accelerate it.” The China Investment Corporation has $200 billion and was initially expected to invest all of it overseas. But the fund has since made its largest investments shoring up the capital of banks in China.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To mischipotles: How do you got the 1.2 million from 6.3 million and 5.4 million? You wrongfully conclude that the difference was killed. There may be explanation or no for the difference that you have not find out. If you say they were killed, others can say they had migrated to India. If there were so many Tibetans killed, then how do you account for millions of Tibetans in India. They cannot posssibly sneak pass the tight border Chinese patrol. They must have been allowed to go to India. If China is killing and suppressing the Tibetans, so for millions of escaped Tibetans in India there were many millions Tibetans killed on their way to India. Since such massive killing could never escaped the eyewitness of the India border guard and have not been reported by India border guards, the rumour of Chinese killing Tibetans is utterly false. I hope you understand. The native Indians have been suffering for the past 200+ years and you want them to forget about their LAND OF THE FREEs and their HOME OF THE BRAVES and, instead, fight for the land of the free and home of the braves of a far away people who they have no relation with and who just cry suffering a few years instead of 200+ years. Where is your compassion?

againstbiasedreports Author Profile Page:

TO hawksmoor:

You are deeply brainwashed.

You know NOTHING about China.

And you do not even know the US, although you are here. Do you know why this country goes into this recession? Do you know who are manipulating the country? Do you know why the US citizen are hated by most people outside of US?

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Peter34: China cursers must be contained otherwise innocernt people reading their posts without the counter points will believe them, such as the bias USA media and the distorted Pomfret's article. A spsrk must be contained otherwise a disastrous fire can result.

mischipotles Author Profile Page:

hanksmoor, brilliant parody and i couldn't agree more. nonetheless, like in israel and china, there is a very sizable minority which is well-read and doesn't eat transfats.
peter, i hate to eat a can of beans and then let rip in your fenqing love-in lounge, but...
thmark, space program advances have as much to do with qing-sheng shu as with ingenuity. manufacture and industry advances are mostly thanks to EU tech. transfers. according to the permanent mission of PRC to UN in Geneva (2004), EU is china's largest trade partner, largest tech. transfer source, and 4th largest investor. as for olympic opening, i liked the traditional song performed by 5 women, "the moon shines bright tonight" (?) and the dancing writing brushes (i've seen that before), but was less impressed with the 7K+ pla cum performers on the drums.
why would west invade china when cpc shoots itself in the foot regularly? i hope you understand.
general blah, stats are from 1959 edition of "people's daily", @ 6.3M and cpc 2002 stats, 5.4M.
tchrd gives 1.2M in-/direct deaths. i'm part native and don't appreciate your exploiting tragedy to defend tragedy.
china and u.s. are tied in olympic medals for high crime, but china wins with 2 gold, 1 silver to u.s. 1 silver, 2 bronze:
gold: genocide, tibetan uighur
silver: abetting democide, china: sudan, u.s.: palestine
bronze: crimes against humanity, iraq, afganistan
the difference here is we wish to stop it while you defend it. that's why i say sarko did right to call beijing's bluff.

loosl Author Profile Page:

Nicolas Sarkozy met the leader who has a government in exile which has been demanding to split a huge piece of territory from China. The Dalai Lama is not purely a religious leader. He is the head of this government in exile. By meeting him, Nicolas Sarkozy is supporting this government in exile. Why should China befriend a president who supports splitting China? Sovereignty of China is non-negotiable. You should know that very well!!

AnsonLeecn Author Profile Page:

Druing a business class, we discussed paradism using Tibet issues as example with our U.S. teacher.(She is a nice woman). We said that repots on the internet and TV are distorted by west media. Before liberation, Tibet was a serf society. Chinese government had spent large human resourses and capital to build roads and railways to speed up their living conditions and also the economic development there. Comparing to Hans, Minorities has more proprities including birth control and college entrance examination,etc.
Initially, our U.S. teacher told us that she didn't believe that because what she was told about Tibet was fully free and religous tales.
We suggested her to use the search Enginewhich was invented by U.S. guy(not from China).She dis as what we suggested.

The next week, she greeted to us and said "You are excellent guys, I know much better of Tibet."

Maybe words are redundant now, the best way to know full perspective of China and Tibet is to visit there. You can gain your own ideas and experiences of China and Tibet.

vmoore55 Author Profile Page:

Why you wanna know and read Chinese history from China?

The VICTOR writes history not the loser. That's why US history is full of BS,

Some losers want only to prolong their lost war and to restore false pride.

wolfpapa Author Profile Page:

John, if you KNOW the Dalai Lama is but a Buddhist spiritual leader, as you say in this article, you shouldn't be working for Washingtonpost, 'cos you are not qualified. But if you say so on purpose only to MISLEED your fooled readers, you are a good selective writer, but not a good reporter, who is sent all the way to China to report to less-knowing people. In other words, you are not qualified, either.

hawksmoor Author Profile Page:

@KOGEJOE

Thank you. Finally! A voice of logic and reason, instead of the pro-China rhetoric.
There are so many reasons why you Chinese mouth pieces are wrong, I shall only list a few

I too, am sick of all the Chinese people want to pull historical facts to support their points. They do not have the benefit of unbiased media like us, we don't have to check history, we have cable news always brings the fair and balanced views on Dalai Lama, I mean, if our President tell us Tibetan ought to be a free and independent Theocracy, then thats that.

Chinese history are notoriously unreliable, constantly re-written. The good old US of A picks one story and stick with it. We say Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, then he has it, no matter what what the evidence says, and we keep saying it.

Of course there are fringe lunatics that will point out the U.S. government put Saddam in power in the first place, but really it just goes back to my earlier point, if it's not on TV, it doesn't exist.

Plus Chinese people don't even know th heir history! The Chinese people wiped it out during cultural revolutions and great leaps. America, however, has always preserved our noble and distinct culture, we only wipe out OTHER people's cultures, like the Native Americans, but now they are better off anyway. Today China wants to copy us and wipe off Tibetan culture, have they no shame? Sooo unoriginal.

Homeland Chinese are brainwashed to say whatever their leader tells them to, in America, we critically think the issues ourselves. Even though we knew there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam, we still decided for ourselves it was a good idea to invade Iraq, now they are living healthy, productive, and short lives. Occasionally there are insurgency bombing, but such is life.

PS - "Boo hoo, I'm boycotting France for life! Waah!" Do you even know what real boycotting means? First you have to buy the French wine, and then dump them down the street, better yet, call them Freedom Wines, yeah, that'll teach them.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace: No country is perfect, otherwise USA doesn't need all the laws, regulations and gun-totting police. USA has been selling unsafe cars for years. Now there is safety regulation for cars. USA has been selling unsafe food for years. Now USA has food safetly regulation and inspection. Today you heard about Ireland's poisonous pork product. Be open-minded. I hope you understand.

Peter34 Author Profile Page:

Bunches of FreeTibet druggies has used mantra to curse China for more than half a century yet China has growing stronger.

So give them a little face,my dear Chinese friends.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Kogejoe: Apparently you have a paranoid perspective of China. If China is as bad as you think, China would not have space venture, one of the manufacture and industrial center of the world, stable society, no foreign wars, has the largest foreign reserve, gave the biggest and the and the most spectecular Olympic opening and closing ceremonies ever and for the futre, no foreign powers dare to invade China as had happened before or as happened in Iraq, etc. If people think as you do, there would be no popular China curriculum in universities, no foreign tourists, and Pomfret' column will disappear and he will be fired, the Chinese division in the State and Commerce Department will disappear. Apparently you are one of the few that have such a distorted perspective of China. I hope you understand

Peter34 Author Profile Page:

Free to bet! Don't argue with these FreeTibet chameleons. History told us they are what they were.Chinese are too naive to those trashes.

kogejoe Author Profile Page:

It's really funny to hear Chinese online spammers say "Westerners should learn Chinese history."

Excuse me? Why should we trust anything China says? Do they think we are blind? That we cannot see that they brazenly like to re-write their own history? And limit what Chinese people see and hear to keep them in the dark about their own country, to keep them like faithful sheep?

I'm sure the "great leap forward" and the Cultural revolition didn't happen either, did it.

China committed cultural suicide. Years of history down the drain. "Kill the four olds. Replace them with the four news." All they have to show for it is bamboo and pandas. They even destroy their own writing system. "Simplified Chinese." Newspeak for blind sheep.

Homeland Chinese are programmed to spew pro-China, anti-Tibet propaganda at the drop of a hat. They're like mindless tape recorders.

The Chinese erased China, Chinese culture and history, and now they want to erase Tibet as well.

"Westerners should learn history." Peh. WHO should learn history? Precisely WHO do you think you are fooling? All the history you threw down the memory hole the West has documented. The West probably knows more about China than the Chinese themselves care to realize. Do you think we're that stupid? That we can't see what's going on?

Don't think the olympics with your fake singer and your fake fireworks display made the world forget what you do. FREE TIBET!!!

PS - "Boo hoo, I'm boycotting France for life! Waah!" Do you know what the world thinks of the phrase "Made in China?" Go ahead! Ask! Nothing but shoddy, 3rd rate goods. Remember what happened to Japan when it decided to seal itself off from the rest of society? Cutting off ties with the rest of the world is suicide.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

In the summer of 2007, a large number of tainted Chinese toys had caused many Americans to stop buying toys. Then the toothpaste, Chinese made vitamins and generic drugs, etc. The US is a consumer country. We love to shop till we drop. But now it’s no fun to go shopping, because most goods on the shelf are made in China, whose credibility is a big concern for consumers. I told my friends that we would have a recession in six months after the tainted toys were reported just about every day. Even the baby bibs from China had lead in it. That’s why most Americans used their $1,200 stimulus checks to pay off their loans last summer. American made goods are now rare, but we don’t like to buy Chinese, either. It’s not protection to be hostile. It is protection for fear of getting hurt by the tainted Chinese imports. I read that the demand for nursing nannies became very high after the melamine-tainted powdered milk killed a baby and damaged many babies’ kidneys. See, normally people want to avoid dangers. China can’t blame the current economic downturn all on us. It’s not our fault that we don’t want to buy more Chinese goods. Greed and corruptions worked against China. I even read that it was Taiwan’s fault. It’s inconceivable. Then a few dictators tried to use oil as their weapon and it backfired. Everything goes up must come down. No economy can continue growing at the same speed forever. Many Americans can lose a few pounds anyway so it’s no big deal. The positive side of this economic downturn is that as production slows down, pollution will decrease as well. This is a great opportunity for us to shape up on everything.

A fellow, whose brother visited China, said that it’s very safe there to walk around, because if you are caught doing something bad, you can be executed in no time. That might be the reason why there are very few prisoners in Chinese prisons. They were mostly executed fast. Probably most prisoners there are either political prisoners or religious prisoners like Falun Gong members, who are the major source for international organs trade. But that’s another subject for another day.

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

mischipotles,

1.2M Tibetan were killed? Where you got the figure?
Right now only 2.5M live in Tibet Province, and not all of them are Tibetan.

Are you suggesting 1/3 were annihilated?
That's the official count of US government's report on Native Indian Lost by Inland Movement, but none of the a few left alive Native really believe that, because they don't believe they were only 1m before Westerner moved in.

And US government forced them to attend US official schools for every pupil to pledge in front of flag, but not all Tibetan children attending China Official school, that I find that whoever responsible should learn from US, if not then should be fired.

Have you ever count how many Iraqis died during these couple years? It's close to 1.2M according to United Nation's estimate. Go check out.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Mischipotles: The Indian settlement is still not settled after 200+ years in a free, human-righteous, demcratic USA! No matter what the face-saving settlement is, the native Indians cannot get back and live in their LAND OF THE FREE and their HOME OF THE BRAVEs. They will lost forever their ancestral and holly land and be excluded from their LAND OF THE FREE and their HOME OF THE BRAVES. I hope you understand. The Tibetans still live on their ancestral land and can still worship in their holly places. If you can excuse the native Indian gencide because it happened many many tears ago, then you can also excuse China of her so-called Tibetan killings because it happened a few years back. If not, China can wait 200+ years to be excused. The poker game you mentioned was started by France. So France is the culprit. If you had studied China history, which I assumed you had not, the living conditions of the Chinese during the European's colonization attempt is much worse than today. The Chinese endured and strive to a very much better living conditions at present. So the Chinese can sail through the present worldwide depression caused by USA. The impact of this economic meltdown caused by USA is worst than that of the 9/11 event. For this 9/11 event, USA sent her armada to chase down the culprit. For this meltdown USA is rewarding the culprits by bailout. I hope you understand. The so-called 84 million killed is just purely speculative. 84 milliom out of 600 million Chinese is more than 10%. That is more than one person in 10. China is densely populated. In a city building of four stories, there can be 30 people living. So three people in that building were killed and in every building throughout the city. In the countryside, a farm house can have 7 people living. One person in each house is killed and in every house in the village. This phenomneon just cannot happen. If it does, bitterness among those survived will stay on to the present time just like the Pearl Harbor, 9/11, the Jews holocast. Since this bitteerness never surfaces among the broad spectrum of Chinese as evidencec by the 2008 Olympic game, that testifies that the 84 million figure is false. I hope you understand. I remind you that USA has the highest number of people in prison per capita in the world and the suicide rate among the native Indians in highest in USA. Since you are SINCERELY fighting for the truth, you must agree with what I said here. I hope you understand.

alex65 Author Profile Page:

Mischipotles wrote: "To date, it's 1.2M deaths from 'peaceful liberation' and counting..."

Really? Can you provide any objective source to back up the number?

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

Sarko purposely doing that so to prevent China leader Hu to join the summit.

He did not want China to participate and he give a good signal.

It is like we try set up a party to invite both Bin Laden and Obama and Bush to come have meal on table.

Does anyone invite his friend and the enemy of his friend to his birthday party?

He does want China to come, Hu gets it.
Don't worry, I am sure Hu had much important stuff to do instead of going to France, a country of rottenness of hundreds year of filthy history. unless Hu is looking for a professional bed maid.

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

I propose US send their best troop into Georgia, only American Boldhead Eagle can defeat Polar Bear Russia.

Let world know that American who stands with liberty and democracy, only they can defeat evil:)

I will surely prepare my popcorn and coke to watch the war btwn Russia and US, or French against US, like a football show!

God bless US politician like John, without you, no drama, no death of US soldier and your imaginable enemy.

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

And dear Mr. Pomfret,

surely you are a political fox;
so now your country US made peace with our nation, but as a politician, you raise up another enemy for our nation huh?

How nice!

You think French and Chinese are that stupid?
So you build a boxing ring, and our two nations fight so you can deliver a pay per view for your people? and you can make some money out our blood and the naiveness of your people? And this way you can bring down two nations, French and China, remember people, there are two nations don't buy US politician's scheme.

Dear John,

I love your work. Even Sun Zi would consider that you are sharp one!

My Salute!

generalyuefei Author Profile Page:

There was a fat French man by name of Paris, made a lady his 'wife', but he often went out to lie with others, and when he needed a meal, he would go back, To meet his lady, first he'd slap his lady, made her prostrate to him and kiss him,
then he would give order for meal, so his lady would stand up and go to the kitchen, and served him as he required, a civilized way, a French music was required to be played, while he is switching his fork and knives and spoon, his steak must be grilled raw, served with blood, on shining white China ware and he enjoyed burgundy wine....
he looked at his woman, old and filthy, never a good comparison of the ones outside, but he knew he could not send her away, because she had deepened stock from her family side, nor he could bring his new 'love' into their house, for she would never cook for him again, nor let him spend one dime of her money, and he could only lie btwn them, with the old ugly one once a week before on sat. night, so he neighbors heard his marriage vow at midnight before he going sunday church to sing his hymn, and other nights he pursuit ed his 'young and undying love' with another young girl outside, whom used to be the maid of his old wife. To sleep with the maid, he must work to seek a room for her, it seemed that his wife had a lot of vacant rooms, and the young maid loved her old room before she ran away. So he can only sleep in btwn his contract of security of marriage, and lust of his concept of freedom and love. But too bad, the young maid got a heart disease, may not live long. And the real tragedy was that his old woman again and again realized that she did not need a contract and she can be happy and hire other young men as her companion for a great sum, and she could afford it.

mischipotles Author Profile Page:

thmak, let me put it this way, native americans are using lawyers in courts of law to sue for $, land, and resource entitlement...and WINNING. Can tibetans, or chinese, for that matter, do the same?
Chinese lawyers who offered their services to tibetans facing riot-related 'chinarges', parents of tofu-schools, and sanlu parents were threatened with loss of their right to practice. The genocides of which you speak happened generations ago while Tibet is happening NOW. And i am no hypocrite.
China shot itself in the foot. how can Beijing convert 300M living below $1/day (asian development bank, 2007) and millions of unemployed into consumers? Beijing will do whatever is in its best interest, which is not necessarily the best interest of the chinese people. Playing poker with EU is definitely not in anyone's interest.
lastly, "a few rebellious tibetans"? To date, it's 1.2M deaths from "peaceful liberation"
and counting, while the overall toll from CPC mis-rule stands at 83M and counting. I hope you understand.

mond12 Author Profile Page:

Oh. The comments are much better than Mr. Pomfret's. WP should pay comment authors instead. I am waiting for my paycheck now.

iewgnem Author Profile Page:

I love the last line: "China just screwed this one up". Mr. Pomfret is really pissed off here isn't he?: "what? they canceled the meeting? damn them, we are big, we are strong, they need us, damn it how dare they treat us like we don't exist?"

Face it, China canceled because China have nothing to lose from canceling it, Chinese leaders are known for their pragmatism, in this case, if theres anything they could have gained from the summit, they will go. Europeans on the other hand are pissed off because they do have a lot to lose.

China is trying to shift from an export oriented to a consumption balanced economy, it will take time but, given the already deteriorating export market, China have far less reason to keep the Europeans happy. Europe on the other hand are watching their buddy US in its current crisis, and Chinese market is where they placed their future hopes on, that's why they are pissed off.

Of course, Mr. Pomfret and their European buddies can continue to rage, China will continue to do whats in its best interest, but because of that, you will see it make a lot more "mistakes" in regard to western interests. Its just that I guess these days there are a lot less common interests than there used to be, heh.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

Here is a suggestion to all Westerners who are interested in seeing a better Tibet. Quit the lecturing, go to Tibet(it is open to foreign visitors, unlike the Western press's claim), or read as much about the place as you can from history to culture, and show your respect for China as a nation. When you attack China, you are attacking the nation as a whole, along with its people, history and culture. Don't even try to tell Chinese that you are only criticizing the government of China. Even most Chinese from Taiwan, which is a political rival of the PRC, are offended by Western attacks on China(the nation) with the Tibet issue. Just talk as an equal to Chinese and you might get somewhere. Your lecturing is bringing only negative impact to Tibetans.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dardencavalcadei: Not really as to be totally different. Americans and Europeans have more in common than difference. Both belong to the same Western culture. They have the same politics of the so-called democracy, human right and freedom. Both have similar culture in art, music and literature. Bother have the similar social infrastures. Their difference is small. If American is really different from the Europeans, they would have follow their ideals and fight against the evils of colonialism instead of joining to share the spoil. I hope you understand.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Mischipotles: Yes. Two wrongs do not make a right. The real trouble is one of the two wrongs is home free while the other is severely punished as you have demonstrated. Double standard that is all. Not equal justice. If you want to seek justice, let us start with the higest priority and the most devastating one first. This one is the America. America is bigger than Tibet and is well known that it is forcibly occupied by the Europians. The native American were slaughtered almost to extinction more than the few rebellious Tibetans. They are confined to barren lands instead of the futile plains. The LAND OF THE FREE and HOME OF THE BRAVES doesn't belong to them anymore. Their holly places exist no more. If you are so SINCERELY concerned, you should start to right this one first just as the USA government is bailing out the most important economically failing institutions first rather than the fired employees. If you are not, you are the universal hypocrite. I hope you understand.

DardenCavalcade1 Author Profile Page:

China cancels a meeting with the Europeans. One American journalist comments on it, and loons from all over the Third World begin to conflate Europe and the United States.

Here's a cultural geography lesson, fellas. Americans may look like Europeans, but we aren't. Europeans may look like Americans, but they aren't. Our politics, cultural values, and perspectives on the world separated long ago.

We share some DNA, but so do Chinese and Japanese!


mischipotles Author Profile Page:

Just to clarify, i'm part native american and naturally, am interested in seeing justice for Tibetans prevail.
These are not "day-to-day" occurances, Hu Jintao investigated, the center of Longnan burning for over 36hrs, Xinhua demanding press freedom and fenqing out-doing the neo-cons (google: New Yorker "2008 China Stand Up"). While i agree that the ICC has its work cut out for it, we'll see if Washington causes as much obstruction in the halls of the UN over the fallout from Iraq as Beijing has over Tibet, not to mention Darfur and Zimbabwe. After all, it was Beijing's tenacious interference in the UN which probably led to the judicial inquiry.
What is "peaceful liberation, other than neo-colonialism. As Sarko stated, China needs the west as much as the west needs China. I say, let's put a stop to imperialism east and west. Let's call our gov'ts to account on their transgressions, east and west. I invite you to join your chinese brothers and sisters who spam wu mao and call on Beijing to conform to international standards of governance and i assure you, i'll do the same here in the west. After all, 2 wrongs don't make a right. The EU did right to call Beijing's bluff.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Mischipotles: Remind you that the colonial era is gone. But those past colonial powers,such as Spain and France, still want to fantacize their colonial dreams by acting out though they can still administrate and tell other countries what to do and behave. Obviously they will be greatly humiliated when reality knocks them shock and awe. The problems you cited for China are just day to day social problems that happen in every country. No surprises. So you "still have your dignity and principles" in illegally invading Iraq, destroying their social infrastructures, killing thousands innocent Iraqis, committing anti-human right crimes, still confining the native Americans to their barren land, creating the first world-wide economic depression, having the highest number of people in prison per capita, etc.

mischipotles Author Profile Page:

Sarko, "One must approach this calmly. The world needs an open China that participates in global governance. China needs a powerful Europe that gives work to chinese enterprise".
Beijing's threats of dammage to sino-franco relations is nothing new. Spain endured a visit from Hu Jintao last spring and chinese foreign ministry threats of dammage to sino-spanish relations over Madrid's judicial inquiry into Li Peng, Jian Zenim and Hu Jintao's roles in Tibet.
Events in China reinforce the EU decision to call Beijing's bluff.
1. an editorial in Xinhua's Liaowang magazine, reprinted in liberal newspapers across China, calls for press freedom, that officials who attempt to suppress the truth are committing an "official dereliction of duty" (sanlu, recent riots).
2. Zhou Tianyong, researcher at the Central Party School in Beijing, recently published in China Economic Times that chinese leaders risk being "bamboozled" by their own incorrect data, citing official urban unemployment at 4% when in reality it's 12% and rising. In reference to growing gap between rich and poor, "The redistribution of wealth through theft and robbery could dramaticly increase and menaces to social stability will grow".
3. A manifesto signed by a chinese who's who list of prominent left and center citizens calls on Beijing to conform to international standards of governance, allow the UN Commission on Human Rights access to Tibet (retiring UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Me. Louise Arbour stated that during her tenure, only Myanmar, N. Korea, and Chinadenied her commission access), and convoke an inquiry into events in Tibet last march.
4. Spam the wu-mao. With the surge of chinese netizens, Beijing set up "internet commentator attendants", gov't bloggers assigned to shape public opinion. Whether it was in reaction to Sichuan's tofu-schools, sanlu, or media reports on recent Longnan riots, netizens coined the moniker "wu mao", or .50centers, for these commentators, a perjorative jab at their gov't paid shiller status.
Beijing has taken a huge gamble with its hard-line stance on DL and it will most likely backfire. Popular support in China for the CPC is as thin as DL's faith in Beijing's willingness to negociate. Beijing shows only contempt for western concerns about human rights. I believe EU to be right to have called Beijing's bluff. We may be broke, but we still have our dignity and principles.

Peter34 Author Profile Page:

The French rooster has been bluffing. Remember the glossy Sarkozy traveling between Russia and Georgia? France is now the world's political superpower and diplomatic master...U.S Down ,France up.

It is amazing that Pomfret has been to China.Unbelievable for his understanding of China. China will not be down,especially being bullied by a narcissistic french.There is no any intersect between Napoleon and Sarkozy,though Sarkozy feel so strongly that there is....It is the blessing to this world.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

People like Pomfret only wants to talk trash about how China overreacts when the West actively supports anti-China elements like Tibetan separatists, but he always skips how American and Western interests are hurt when China and Russia actively supports anti-American, anti-Western forces in the world in response to the attacks on them.

Newton's laws of physics will always apply, Mr. Pomfret. When a force is applied in one direction, there shall be an equal and opposite force against it. When the West attacks the rest of the world, you must expect retaliations. This is why 9/11 happened. This is why 4,000 Americans died in Iraq. This is why Palestinians blow themselves up to kill Iraelis. This is why Vladimir Putin, the most anti-American leader of Russia in decades enjoys universal support from Russians. This is why Hugo Chavas is able to rally up immense anti-American sentiments among South Americans today. Without the attacks from the West, none of these anti-Western forces could gain nearly as much power. People like you may not like to hear it, but most troubles of the world today stem from Western aggressions against others, either with violence and Iraq and Vietnam, or with words like your anti-China articles.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Carryanne: You are repeating your stale anti CCP rhetoric too many times in the post. Not appealling anymore.

carryanne Author Profile Page:

Politics is so yucky. It's hard to believe that some politician actually cares about Tibetans and human rights.....

But, on the other hand, I am very glad that this happened because it makes for a good show of what kind of "peaceful rise" the communist party is really up to.

I mean really, if they tell the downtrodden people and the useless media that they are rising peacefully enough times then it it true? There has been nothing peaceful about the CCPs rise and it has been a shame to the true Chinese culture which is to have dignity. The CCP has robbed the people of their dignity, now all that's left is face.

Every stupid move the CCP makes to control and manipulate through soft and ultra hard means shows just how weak and afraid it is.

Hypocrite1 Author Profile Page:

"As Rome Burns, China Won't Talk". Rome is indeed is on fire, and why should China care? Next time if you are lucky, as Beijing burns, China may wanna talk.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

In Europe, Dalai criticizes China lacks the moral authority of a large nation. What he says is somewhat true. The reason I say somewhat is because the bottom line is: China does not belong to the club yet. Here are the evidences:

- In all US Consulates, Chinese citizens applying for US tourist visa are treated like beggars wanting to illegally overstaying their visa. Then the graceful powers turn around asking Chinese to act like a gentleman.

- In the 2008 Olympics, we saw how Chinese wanted to prove themselves. Then you can see how westerners rejected Chinese. Then, oops, air pollution was not as bad as they "wanted to be". But the damage is done. Western powers, both politicians and public, think they granted China the Olympics, so China better behave like what they said. Again, China does not belong to the club.

- The so call one trillion (or different number) dollars of foreign recserve so many Chinese have to keeping on talking to prove their hard work can be lost easily after a few Wall Street crisis.

Everything Chinese have today come from extremely slave like hard work of Chinese people. Nothing comes easy. Yes, many friendly western friends took a friendly stance toward Chinese like expecting a struggling poor kids fighting for their space in the neighborhood. But many are looking for any opportunity to trash China. Of course, this is not unusual.

One or two generations later, as Chinese used to the world power status, they may be more generous. Just hope there is no major conflict during this China rising period and cause too permanent damage.

Dalai Lama should think what he can lead Tibetians to do for all Chinese, Tibetians included. Instead, Dalai is saying: we did not through bombs at you and you should appreciate that. It may sound like music for westerners to hear Dalai preaching Chinese on moral authority. But for Chinese, he does not have the moral authority to do that. Sorry.

hawksmoor Author Profile Page:

Mr Pomfret

I can't help but notice the glib, almost giddy, attitude that permeates your article. France and China are not a couple of guys sitting around talking trash. The decisions to meet Dalai Lama or postpone the summit are carefully calculated political posturing on both sides. To assume otherwise is just willful ignorance.

First, Dalai Lama is not JUST a religious leader, but also the public face of a political movement. Meeting with him is not the same as meeting a bishop of the local church, it is at least an implicit support of his political agenda.

Now, we know the western media claim Dalai Lama is a benevolent leader trying to preserve the political and cultural autonomy of Tibet while the Chinese sides are saying he is a "splittist" seeking to regain power as the head of a Theocracy that enslaved masses of people. Whatever the truth might be, Sarkozy is certainly aware of how the Chinese government feels about the octogenarian, and to schedule a meeting around the same time as a major economic summit just reeks of politics.

If Sarkozy and the rest of EU leaders really cared about human rights, autonomy, etc in Tibet, they certainly would not do it in this fashion. To challenge a country whose culture values "face" as much as substance like this, is never going to make the Chinese government promote these changes. Almost everyone can agree that Tibet actually gaining independence is extremely unlikely but that doesn't make this symbolic slap in the face any less embarrassing.

You can't force the CCP to cooperate on human rights issues by threatening its territorial integrity, particularly when the changes sought are, to them, likely to cause more political instability. So now China feels embarrassed, throws a fit and postpones the summit, France can't be seen being pressured to step away from supporting human rights and religious freedom, so it cancels the summit altogether. So no this isn't just some "petulant three-year-old" or like others suggest some backward "middle kingdom" BS.

I suspect both parties have overplayed their hand and underestimated how the other would react and now are trying to find some to get back to the table. Already the Chinese government are cautioning its citizens to react calmly, lest a boycott escalates the matter. Perhaps both could realize they need to work together to climb out of this economic chasm.

Aprogressiveindependent Author Profile Page:

Mr. Pomfret, please how about a new topic. I suggest the issue of famous Chinese film stars who abandon their Chinese citizenship, such as Gong Li and Jet Li, as described in a current article at the BBC website, to become citizens of other countries.

alex65 Author Profile Page:

To THMAK:

I can understand your frustration perfectly well.

However, 2008 is not in the 19th century anymore. And tibet will not be independent for the forseeable future.

To quote CDAV531: "Let the DL do his little world tours. Ignore him like a stray dog and he'll go away. You only give him more attention by making the 'Tibet issue' seem more important than it actually is."

vmoore55 Author Profile Page:

Sarkozy have to see and be loved by the Dalai Lama, the EU financial crisis not so important.

China have to let it be known that it may look like a 3 year old baby but it's a black belt master of strategies and it takes what it wants.

We need to wait and see who got screwed best.

MikeOLeary Author Profile Page:

The China/Tibet issue has been around for sixty years. And will be around much longer.

While its nice to worry about Tibet and the Dalai Lama, now is not the time. Our leaders should concentrate on our economic issues.

Cueball2008 Author Profile Page:

THMAK

"The West is a bunch of big overweight and handicapped babies. They throw temper tantrums"

I would say China cancelling this meeting shows it's a far bigger cry baby. Whenever it doesn't get what it wants it throws itself to the floor, starts wailing and beating the carpet with its little fists.

To the Chinese trolls, guys if you want to boycott European goods - fine. In that case we'll pull our hundreds of billions of euros of investment in China out. Try and find a replacement for that in the current financial climate.

If you want to invite Bin Laden to Beijing, we'll invite the Taiwanese president to Brussels and establish diplomatic relations with his nation.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Rangzen: The West is a bunch of big overweight and handicapped babies. They throw temper tantrums by chanting freedom, democracy, and human rights & want to dictate to world leaders what they must do. The Western leaders think the West is the God blessed dictator & all "vassals" must kowtow to them. By trying to exaltingly meet w/ the Dalai Lama on their own soil, the West is interfering in the internal affairs of China. China is overwhelmingly supportive of Tibetan human rights & freedoms. The West want Tibet to be separated from China so they make threats & throw hissy fits whenever China has improved social condition in Tibet. Plus, whenever Western leaders meet w/ the Dalai Lama it makes it easy for the PRC to get their own people to know that Dalai Lama is colluding with the West against China. If the Dalai Lama is so good a dedicated Buddhist of forebearance, compassion and tolerance, why are so many anti-China foreign leaders & foreigners eager to see him & why is he so popular outside China only around anti-China thugs and goons? It's a question the West doesn't want the ordinary Western people asking.

againstbiasedreports Author Profile Page:

About Tibet, it is really an outdated weapon.

Let me put this way. The westerns will be happy if the Chinese government have done the following:

1) Killed up Tibetans in 1950's, just like the European did to Native Americans;
2) Kept Tibetans in some preserves (very undeveloped area) in each state, like the US did to Native Americans;
3) Let the preserves to play casinos, like the US did to Native Americans;
4) Built a Tibetan museum in Beijing, like the US did in Washington;

Will the westerns be really happy? Nope. Does the westerns really want to help Tibetan people? Nope. The westerns just can not keep their ass clean yet. Now they are trying to mess with others' ass. The real purpose of the western's actions on Tibet is only one, to suppress the growth of China.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

It is time for China to seriously consider giving a warm welcome to Osama Bin Laden in Beijing. If Washington or US reporters like Pomfret here start complaining, then they get to be called a petulant 3-year-old. Anyway, Pomfret is just a man very frustrated that his country, which believes is the greatest in the world, can't seem to do a dam thing about China giving the entire Western world a giant middle finger. Actually China has been erecting that finger at the US many times lately, particularly in South America, which Washington considers its own harem where the US can go and rape anyone at will. China, along with Russia, is empowering South Americans to rise up against the 200-year-old tyranny of the United States. You can definitely see the frustration in Pomfret's writing these days.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

To Voter:

You don't have to claim you are not brain washed. They are trying to deny your rights of thinking by saying you are brainwashed.

To RANGZEN:

On your question, why is DaLai Lama so popular in foreign countries? The answer is written on the wall: other countries use him to harass China. I believe that's the real reason behind all the headlines. He has a successful PR campaign is a big factor too. If human rights is really the concern, then Africans, Palestinians, Cashmere issue should be much more urgent than Tibet.

For me, the problem is really on how China should treat a weaker party while insisting on rightful national integrity. It's a problem of China, not Tibet. Ironically, anyone say anything about Palestinian rights, they have to first swear up and down they are true friends of Israel to claim some credential and not to be labeled as anti-semitism. But everyone seem to feel easy to jump and do their China bashing. Enough of that.

I may not support lot of things PRC government is doing, but I support Chinese, whether you like it or not.

voter Author Profile Page:

To Rangzen

I was very respectful of the Dalai Lama and his teaching before. The violent protests in May have shaken my faith in him. The fact that foreign (Western) leaders continue to see him without a word of criticism about the violence, helped me realize that the world has not changed much from the last two centuries of what China had gone through. China still faces the danger of being torn apart by the West. Yes, China needs to change and progress there is a lot of room to improve on human rights, corruption, protection of Tibetan culture and many Chinese cultures as well, etc. All these issues are China's internal problems and the Chinese have to fight it themselves. In case you think I am brainwashed by the Chinese media, I rarely read news from the Chinese media since I was not born or grew up in China. I am not brainwashed.

irwhd Author Profile Page:

I am very disappointed about what Pomfret said.Have been to China's Tibet as a expert of china issue.Most of the tibetants were serfs before 1950s,and now?A flourishing Tibet of Buddhism culture without Dalai.

Rangzen Author Profile Page:

The PRC is a bunch of big babies. They throw temper tantrums & want to dictate to world leaders who they can or can't meet with. The PRC leaders think China is the Middle Kingdom & all "vassals" must kowtow to them. By trying to force politicians not to meet w/ the Dalai Lama on their own soil, the PRC is interfering in the internal affairs of those countries. Europeans are overwhelmingly supportive of Tibetan human rights & freedoms. China doesn't want Tibetans to have int'l support for our cause so they make threats & throw hissy fits whenever foreign govts show some sympathy for Tibet. Plus, whenever foreign leaders meet w/ the Dalai Lama it makes it harder for the PRC to get their own people to believe the Dalai Lama is bad. If the Dalai Lama is so bad, why are so many foreign leaders & foreigners eager to see him & why is he so popular outside China? It's a question the CCP doesn't want the Chinese people asking.

againstbiasedreports Author Profile Page:

I just do not understand the author. You used "The reality is that China just screwed this one up." to catch eyes or what? Don't you see the reality is that US just screwed everything up? Don't you see the reality is that Sarkozy/France is acting like a newborn. Lots of people say that Sarkozy is a two-faced little man. I should say he is messed up, with face down to the ground. He does not have any identity with a series of non-consistent actions. Your report like this will just damage Washington Post's credibility if there is any. It looks to me that Washington Post is hiring elementary students for reports. Could you write something that makes any sense?

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Cdva531: You falsely accused me of calling you name. What name I called you,Sir?. You use 'Chinese rhetoric", I responeded with "American rhetoric", Now you used "indoctrinator", "A" student, elite" Chinese, "you are somehow superior and the rest of the world infantile for not recognizing that greatness". I have the American kindness not to reply the same. You are harshly accusing. I just respond kindly. So what kind of "rhetoric" you have? I hope you understand. You said no Americans are in Gitmo. The reason is USA sentences their own lightly while severely punish those who not their own, ex in Abui Ghraib and all those Amrican Arabs who try to support the suppressed Arabs in the Middle East. I hope you understand. I said irrationale because you are talking things irrelevnt to the topic of this imature 5 months old Pomfret's post.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

DUMMY4PEACE said: "Ma had sent the Taiwanese former President … Chen to jail and he went on hunger strike to protest political persecution."

I admire your knowledge on Taiwan. A little correction: Investigation on ex-President Chen started when Chen was still in position and 1 million people went on the street asked for that investigation. Few if any people believe Ma will interfere with the investigation at all. As of yesterday, Taipei district court is even tougher on the case. That's great progress in the rule of law.

By the way, Chen is done with his two-week hunger strike. He is writing his 2nd book in jail as his supporter crowd getting smaller only to a handful. But his cash count in bank "safety room" (not safety box) only gets bigger. Chen said he regrets he got into politics. He is right, he should have worked as a Wallstreet banker instead of a president. Chen sure has the Walkstreet quality of being shameless.

thmak Author Profile Page:

T^o Alex65: The Chinese government acts out in responsibilities to preserve the integrity of China and not out of anger. It is France who acts out of anger of loosing out its past colonial grandeur and tries to use the Tibet issue to screw China to show to the world that France is somebody of importance that can push countries around in world affairs. Tibet issue was first used by British in the colonial era to subjugate China, continued by USA with Dalai Lama rebellion and now France picks up the tab. I hope you understand. Those countries are acting out of anger, not responsibiity in world peace affairs. China acts out its responsibility for not supporting the independentce movements in Britian, USA or France. I hope you understand.

alex65 Author Profile Page:

TO cdav531:

I love every post of your thus far (I am an ethnic Han-Chinese if it matters to anyone).

There is a under-current of genuine Chinese resentment when it comes to the tibetan issue. However the government of China should act out of responsibility instead of anger.

cdav531 Author Profile Page:

THMAK:

Amazing. You are doing exactly what I said Chinese do almost as if I scripted it. You jumped to the name calling, dismissing what I wrote as "irrelevant" rather than actually responding to it and then called me "irrational." After that came the "I'm not talking anymore." You must have been an "A" student at the "Chinese School of Rhetoric." Your indoctrinator, er, teacher, would be proud.

Exactly what did I say that was irrational? You mentioned Gitmo and I, quite correctly, pointed out there isn't a single American locked up there for criticizing the American government, whereas Hu Jia and Huang Qi are both locked up by their own government. I logically laid out why China making such a big deal over Tibet is silly. Please tell me exactly what is irrational about my arguments, if you can. You conclude by saying I should thank you for giving me the chance to "vent." That is also sadly typical of "elite" Chinese. You sit back, content in your belief that you are somehow superior and the rest of the world infantile for not recognizing that greatness. There comes a time when you'll need to actually prove it. Taking the ball and going home won't win the game. If China is going to be a great world power it's time to act the part.

rgr1 Author Profile Page:

1- what about the europeans on this article? Plenty of chinese and american posts, but the article is about europe and china. Nobody cares, I know... we are being used ones more as proxies (like during the CW)... Lets take France as an exemple. He was used recently by the US, remember Freedom fries? why they didn't take action against russia or china that were against iraq war too? Bc France doesnt really matter or bc they want it to have its support?. Bc is going to be a friend and ally anyway? Bc it is weak? All the above?

2- I think it was an strategic mistake from China, and should warn europeans about our innocens. But the broader picture shows you that european and china relations have been worsening for the last months and Tibet is the excuse. I'm not saying chinese don't care about it, I just say that they care more about other things and Europeans too. Tibet is an excuse for both on whatever real reason.

3- On hard economic times every country is going to be more nationalistic as a way to get legitimation (and China even more). Hope we europeans get more europeanalistic instead of nationalistic, the economic crisis should be an oportunity for us. Even the british should join the effort... hope so.

ONLY WITH A MORE DEMOCRATIC, UNITED AND STRONG EUROPEAN UNION WE CAN STOP BEING MANIPULATED AS WE HAVE BEEN. HOPE THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT REACTION WILL HELP ON THAT.

4-

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

Hold on… I didn’t know that Taiwan is moving closer to China. I thought China has always tried to move to Taiwan. I happened to read that President … Ma had sent the Taiwanese former President … Chen to jail and he went on hunger strike to protest political persecution. Anyway, we must have been such a chaotic country, because almost no two Americans think alike. I am no expert on China, but I am simply amazed by reading the same historical accounts about China and Tibet many times over online. Keeping history intact is a difficult task even today, never mind keeping the story of four or five thousand years in the same version. This requires real skills and loyalty to the job. Too bad, we Americans are such underachievers that we just can't think straight and neither can we talk the same. But we continue criticizing Uncle Sam from our president to the lowly bureaucrat every day.

See, since we criticize ourselves so much, we don’t get bent out of shape about being criticized by others. That's why we would allow everyone from the world to post their opinions for or against us any day here and everywhere. We even invented Internet for your convenience. Not too bad for a three year old, huh? Honestly, don’t you wish all your family and friends in China could read how Americans criticize their own country left and right? Everyone is welcome. If you watch our South Park, you will enjoy it even more. Parker and Stone are two real geniuses. Our stores have been selling those ‘Life is good.’ T-shirts with a smiley face. They are probably made in China and they sell well. Life is good here and will only get better. This crisis is good for us. We will hopefully learn from our mistakes and create new opportunities. For one thing, our planet has slowed down its production and pollution.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Cdav531: I just wrote one sentence and you responded with all irrelevant chants. My sentence must be really to the point otherwise you would not be so paranoid. I'm so sorry you are hurt. But be cool. It is just discussion only. You should thank me because I had released your pent-up irrationale. Now you can think straight and clear. Have a good day and happy holidays if we don't talk again.

cdav531 Author Profile Page:

THMAK:

You surely can do better than that. Unless you're living in a cave you know that the world isn't exactly listening to America anymore even if America IS telling it what to do. You did exactly what I was talking about: Immediately went to the "what you do is worse!" defense. Next will come the old standby: "China has a 5000 year history and culture which Westerners refuse to even attempt to respect or understand." And isn't China angry at France in the first place because France wouldn't play by China's "DL" rules and did not do what it was told?

The shouting insults back and forth approach is grade-school crap that isn't what a modern nation-state that aspires to be a player on the world scene should stoop to. China wants it all. It wants to be a member in good standing of the global community while sacrificing nothing to achieve it. China is too thin-skinned. It can't get so upset over every perceived slight. In choosing not to attend an economic conference it is working against its own self-interests. The time for symbolism and posturing is over. Tibet isn't going anywhere and no Western country is pushing for its "independence" as your government insists is happening. It's filled with snow and monks and is of no strategic importance to anyone except China, which needs its water. It's not worth getting so worked up about. Let the DL do his little world tours. Ignore him like a stray dog and he'll go away. You only give him more attention by making the "Tibet issue" seem more important than it actually is. I've spoken to many Chinese who are so proud of China's "rise" and boast of how in the future China will be what America used to be BB. (Before Bush) I always tell them how tough it is at the top. When you're there everyone is coming after you. China needs to take stock of what is truly important and what isn't. Is clinging to its, "Don't talk to the DL!" policy more important than heading off a global economic disaster? Look around. Is any country, anywhere going to risk its neck for Tibet? Do you think an unemployed ex-factory worker cares about the DL? No. Yea, yea, you have a glorious history and you invented paper and fireworks, blah, blah, blah. But it's now 2008. Deal with the present.

And BTW...none of those locked up at Gitmo is American. The comparison to them and Huang Qi/Hu Jia is simply not valid. BUT...at least you're consistent. You went to "Chinese Rhetorical tool #1." Predictably.

DarylAtamanyk Author Profile Page:

This reminds me of being out in the Canadian bush without my mosquito repellent: with a single mosquito just driving me CRAZY(!). China's leadership has simply gone bush-league now... that's all. It'll be interesting to see how they handle themselves in the middle of an economic depression... all those "favored" communists being chased by a billion mosquitoes with pointy instruments. Pin cushion time for the cadres. Ieeieeiee! Yours sincerely, Daryl Atamanyk

jamesmoylan Author Profile Page:

Jianhan (AND OTHERS) SAID

.... Tibet is the only thing left for those opportunist politicians to snub and pressure China for concessions now that Taiwan is becoming closer and closer to China......
__________________________________
Tibet is only one of a host of reasons that the West is growing ever more wary of China.
China is no longer a Socialist State and is does not even pretend to embrace any form of true democracy. China is now a totalitarian regime where a very few at the top benefit from the labour and service of the majority - the furthest thing possible from a true socialist state. The furthest thing possible from any sort of state that any other country would wish to emulate.

China is headed for a meltdown of epic proportions as their populace will not put up with a lack of civil rights when there is also a total lack of an over-riding ideology and a pervasive spread of literacy and world awareness.

Tibet is the least of Chinas problems. The west will put up the fences again and the economic miracle will fast become a China wide nightmare of starvation, dispossession, and civil war. (Within 10 years)

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Cdav531: it is true that there is also an "American Rhetoric" of "one telling people what to do and not what one do"

thmak Author Profile Page:

To MIBROOKS27: All your finger-pointing is due to the fact that we have a free, democratic, human righteous society where everyone is "free' and has the "human right" to do what he wants.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Cdav531: Hu Jia and Huang Qi are as free as those who are imprisoned in USA Quantanamo Base prison or any USA secret prisons around the world.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page:

JOEWASHINGTON1 - No, that was hyperbole. The idea of millions of people suffering and dying is horrible to anyone. I would, however, like us to mind our own store before messing up the rest of the world. We have problems, right here at home, that we need to fix. The best thing we could do for the world economy is to get our own economy functioning and put our on people back to work. Our government has been using OUR JOBS and our technology as a pawn for their games of international diplomacy. We bride India with technical knowhow and jobs to act as a buffer against Burma and Pakistan, ply China with jobs and factories to not invade Taiwan, etc. It's so transparently obvious and so morally wrong, and the idiots in every Administration since Clinton have been playing it and the Obama Whitehouse shows every indication of continuing that failed policy. So, I'm angry and you should be, too. I mean, look at the stock market. It has been running up and down in three day cycles since the crash. It goes up, sometimes by a huge amount; then, the retirement fund managers and amateurs move in and buy stocks. The next day, short traders move in and fleece them for a couple of days. Then, the whole cycle repeats itself. It's so tiresome and so obvious - rather like the Nigerian scams, the own your own airport internet terminal scam, and on and on. Everyone with a brain can see what's going on, but no one will take the responsibility to stop it. It's very discouraging and tiresome.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

MIBROOKS27 - Interesting comments. Well thought out arguments like yours are always enjoyable, even if I don't agree.

You would really welcome a nuclear war between Pakistan and India? It sounds as if you want the USA to be at war with the entire world. Who did you vote for in the last election? Bet I can guess.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page:

JOEWASHINGTON1 - You're out of your mind. Most experts expect the US and China to be at war within the next five years. US corporations have established the country's in a competitive relationship and the level of animosity is increasing almost daily. Include India in there, too. More than a few people, myself included, would be delighted to see Pakistan and India in an all out war, complete with nuclear exchange, that would destroy both countries. I have very little patience with parasites and India and China have a very real parasitical relationship on the US. So do our business leaders and investor classes.

While we're on the subject, however, the whole reason we are involved in this discussion is because of the world wide economic collapse. Now, it is no secret that this mess originated in the US with Wall Street and and "financial service industries". Everyone agrees that there was fraud and abuse by individuals on a level not seen before anywhere. And our government has been using taxpayer dollars to bail out the same vermin. Look, these criminal are responsible for more human suffering, more harm and economic damage than anything we have seen since Hitler's Armies wrecked havoc upon the world. We should be treating the leaders of Wall Street, the individual investors, the short sellers and market manipulators, and their political allies, exactly as we treated the Nazi SS after World War II. Hold international tribunals and put them on trial, investigate these matters completely, convict the guilty and either kill them or imprison them in some hellhole for the rest of their lives, go after every dime they have stashed in some grubby offshore bank and confiscate it. Bailing them out, has amounted to perpetuating the fraud they have played upon the world. Around half of that money goes of to China and India or other country's anyways, and is essentially a payoff to forestall international action against these vermin anyways.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

CITIZENPOSTAMERICANWORLD - Yes. We saw that one coming. Another example of American "soft power." So now, it appears the alleged $2T is perceived by the Chinese to be more at risk.

Many of their citizens are very concerned and voicing opinions on what the government should do with the money. If the reserves are not managed right there will be tremendous dissent. If I remember correctly, one or two of the reserve fund managers fell to their death from their hospital bedrooms, coincidentally a few years back after nervous breakdowns. You don't just get fired and go home in China.

Since we appear to be moving into a stronger dollar cycle, the Chinese want to be in dollars, they just understandably want a pref for their investments. The world will probably be very surprised at how much closer the USA and China become over the next 5 years.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

Aprogressiveindependent wrote:
"Hopefully the Tibetans and Chinese will eventually reach a more or less satisfactory compromise."

John Pomfret, with his pompas attitude calling China a 3-year-old in dealing with Tibet, has all but destroyed any chances of a compromise. Let me give you an real analogy. If a country like Russia or China wants to make Muslims in the US suffer, all they have to do is calling on Washington to stop the oppression of Islam and let its believers establish an autonomous state. If the US react in any negative ways, call her names, say a "petulant 3-year-old". I'm sure the American public will react the same way it did right after 9/11 and support the total suspension of civil rights for Muslims by the government.

cdav531 Author Profile Page:

To THMAK:

Tell Hu Jia and Huang Qi how free they are to "criticize." You'll need to visit them in jail to do it, of course. And both of them did the majority of their criticizing in their blogs.
The sad thing is I don't think you are "lying", exactly. You really believe what you are saying is true.

Perhaps America will elect a "Native" American president when China's Poliburo has a majority women membership instead of the well, zero, it has now.

I'm not sure if it is actually taught in schools in China but there seems to be a certain "Chinese Rhetoric." It basically consists of first accusing the "other" of doing something as bad or worse of what China has done or is doing. Next, accuse your opponent of not "understanding" or "respecting" China's "long history" as well as its "culture" and "traditions." If your opponent isn't dazzled or intimidated by that immediately go to name-calling. If that fails, simply stop talking.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

China talks after all: “Beijing has called on Washington to stabilize its precarious economy and protect its investments in America as the two sides opened strategic economic dialogues, which is overshadowed by the churning crisis of the global economy." We hope the US side will take the necessary measures to stabilize the economy and financial markets, as well as to guarantee the safety of China's assets and investments in the United States," Vice Premier Wang Qishan told US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and other US officials at the 5th China-US Strategic Economic Dialogue in Beijing, December 4, 2008.”

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummy4peace: I'm sure you are not fluent in Chinese and that will certainly prevent you from getting the first hand information of what is really going on in China. If you know Chinese, you can cruise through their websites to find out how they are free to talk and critcize in their blogs. Remind you that criticism is different from incitation,instigation,slandering,spreading false rumors,calls for social unrest, etc. Can you tell me when will be a native American Indian/Hawaiian be elected President of USA, the land that once belong to them?

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Turtumn: If one goes back in history far enough, America belongs to the native American Indians and not the Europeans. Everyone must know the almost total genocide of the native Indians committed by the Europeans occupiers and the continual confinement of native Indians to their barren land up to the present. The native Indians are in a far worse state than the Tibetans. I hope you understand.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Dummyforpeace: There are non-Han emperors in Chinese history long before Obama was elected. Remind you that Obama was elected only after 200+ years in USA claiming to be the best democratic, free, equality, human righteous country in the world.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Arrogressiveindependent: Remind you that even the self-proclaimed and the most free,democratic and human right country,USA, doesn't grant the equivalent of " allow large scale cultural autonomy, allowing Tibetans to openly honor the Dali Lama, full religious freedom, exempting Tibetan youth from political propaganda in schools, greater Tibetan control over their schools, the continued restoration of monasteries, etc. " to her native Indians and Hawwiians. I hope you understand.

ckk2008 Author Profile Page:

I thought the West had done a thorough job of getting rid of witches. Not so.
To complete the preparation of the witch's broth, Pomfret's toxic words could be used:
Rome Burns
You meet with Buddhist spiritual leader, we blow off key meeting on future of the world.
petulant 3-year-old here
The reality is that China just screwed this one up.

Witch hunt anybody?


Aprogressiveindependent Author Profile Page:

I do not know whether Tibet was or was a part of China during earlier centuries. An argument could perhaps be made Tibet was a protectorate during periods of certain imperial dynasties. Tibet and China were rival powers, with both often being expansionist and aggressive toward neighbors at least during at least part of the Tang dynasty.

Comparing Chinese control of Tibet and United States take over of the Hawaiian islands, there are some similarities and differences. The presence of missionaries, sailors, plantation owners, etc. had an arguably worse effect on the original Hawaiians than Chinese control has had on the Tibetan people. Diseases brought by Americans to the islands killed many of the native Hawaiians. Those who were left were swindled out of most of their land. Americans, especially puritanical missionaries, denigrated native Hawaiin culture, which was largely suppressed until the 1950's or 1960's. The native Hawaiians were overwhelmed by immigrants from the United States and East Asian nations.

Fortunately there has been a noticeable restoration of interest in and respect for native Hawaiian customs since the 1960's. However, native Hawaiians are only a small minority of the population of Hawaii.

The Chinese leaders and a majority of the Chinese people are about as unlikely to give up control of Tibet as Israel is to give up the lands won as a result of wars during the months following the establishment of Israel. This is simply being realistic, whether being fair or unfair.

Hopefully the Tibetans and Chinese will eventually reach a more or less satisfactory compromise. No government is likely to give up political control of a large part of its country. So meaningful political autonomy for the Tibetans seems unrealistic. However, the Chinese leaders should allow large scale cultural autonomy, allowing Tibetans to openly honor the Dali Lama, full religious freedom, exempting Tibetan youth from political propaganda in schools, greater Tibetan control over their schools, the continued restoration of monasteries, etc.


whliu2001 Author Profile Page:

I am interested in Hawaii because I want to support the Hawaiian Independent Movement and am against the human right abuse imposed on the native Hawaiians by the white colonist. The native Hawaiian is suffering from repression. Also, US will lose a major strategic outpost in the Pacific ocean if Hawaii becomes an independent state. US will be contained to the East side of Pacific.

Obama is elected the President after some 100+ years after the slavery is abandoned. It takes time to educate the former slaves and their children so they become qualified to run the nation. Obama attended the best schools in the US.

Chinese liberated the former Tibetan slaves from the Dalai Lama and his elite slave-master class after 1959. We are sending the former Tibetan slaves to the best schools in China as well as schools in US/UK/etc. Giving timing, I see no problem an highly educated former Tibetan slave become the President of China. As a matter of fact, the Governers of Tibet had always been a now-liberated former Tibtan slaves. As a matter of fact, many vice-presidents of China had been other non-Han ethnic minorities of China.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

All the talks about Tibet and Hawaii, why is China becoming so interested in Hawaii?

How is Hawaii similar to Tibet? We just elected President Barack Obama from Hawaii. I really doubt that China will elect a Tibetan or non-Han president for China any time soon.

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

turtonm wrote: "The invasion and annexation of Tibet is a colonial project involving the annexation of territory never owned by any Chinese empire."

Tibet was never part of any Chinese empire? Then how do you explain Tibet being rescued by a Chinese army in 1791 from an invasion of Gurkhas? Why would China bother with something so expensive if Tibet were a foreign country? The answer, clearly, is that China considered Tibet a Chinese province and was only protecting its own territory.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

With internet, anybody with freedom of speech can access news from anywhere in the world. Living in a free country, we have been trained to use our own judgment to screen the news we receive because anybody can publish anything they like online. The problems the Chinese might have is to think that Americans really think so badly about our own country. We criticize everything we see, read or hear, because we love our country to no end. The Chinese won't understand this till the day when they have the same freedom to criticize their own government without fear.

turtonm Author Profile Page:

++++++++++
The simple explanation is most likely to be the correct one: Given the last 150 years or so of Chinese history they are primarily concerned, rightly or wrongly, with any threat to internal stability and unity. After many, many decades of political fragmentation and naked foreign intervention in internal matters, the Chinese government is again manifesting it's signal and characteristic response - Stay out of our internal affairs!
++++++++++++

I wish posters would stop parroting Chinese propaganda as if it were history. The invasion and annexation of Tibet is a colonial project involving the annexation of territory never owned by any Chinese empire. It is not an internal matter, and it has nothing to do with the relatively mild abuse that European empires inflicted on the Qing empire, which is nothing also compared to what Chinese have been inflicting on their neighbors for the last two thousand years.

China wants Tibet classified as an "internal matter" so it can carry out its colonization there without interference from foreign powers, as well as expand its unlawful and ahistorical claims to other places, such as Taiwan, the Senkakus, South Sea islands, and an entire Indian state.

It's time to stop viewing China as the passive and static recipient of colonialist and intefering activities from outsiders, and instead view its reconstructed and propagandistic history as what it is: political talking points designed to create sympathy among ignorant westerners for the current round of Chinese imperial projects.

Michael Turton

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

joewashington1 wrote: "Well, I seem to remember Genghis Khan conquering the Xia Xia (Xian today) empire first and then conquering Beijing at least once maybe twice."

No, it was the other way around. Genghis conquered the Xi Xia (Tangut Empire) twice, the second time after a rebellion by the Tanguts. A Chinese traitor helped him defeat the northern Song Dynasty but he was never able to conquer all of China; that was accomplished by his grandson, Kublai Khan.

"As they were nomads, they had no ability to administer conquered lands."

They were forced to assimilate, to become Chinese, in order to rule China. The Mongols were few and their subjects overwhelmingly numerous; Kublai Khan really had little choice. For the same reason, the Normans were forced to become English in order to rule England.

Assimilation of the conquerors by the conquered is really quite common in history. The Greeks almost did it to Rome; when the empire split up, the eastern part, Byzantium, almost exclusively spoke Greek, so you might say the Greeks succeeded in co-opting their conquerors. The English did it to the Normans. And the Chinese did it to the Mongols. It is really not so surprising.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

These days, many people, even Americans, do not trust the American media's reporting on world affairs. But the rest of the world is becoming far more important to the average American as other countries are rapidly catching up. This is why US publications like Washington Post are going out of business or on life support. It is a hard pill to swallow for the American elites who are used to standing on their pedestal lecturing the world about moral, politics, religion and economic matters, but if the gigantic messes (a deep recession and two wars stuck in a quackmire) that America has gotten itself into does not bring some kind of humility to the American elites, the US is doomed.

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

mibrooks27, I don't know what subject you thought you were discussing in your 6:22pm rant and in your even more incoherent reply. I am only interested in countering your assertion that "China, India, job outsourcing and acting as a dumping ground for their young cheap workers, was the CAUSE, THE PRIMARY CAUSE, of the current depression." I have done so.

jiaming Author Profile Page:

When it comes to reporting on foreign countries, the American media is far more one sided than those from China, which is supposedly a country without a free media. Mr. Pomfret should know this very well, as he must have seen news reports from Chinese media like Pheonix News. It is rare for the Chinese media, especially privately owned ones, to write a piece of garbage like this article.

Mr. Pomfret, if you are going along with this kind of trashy, shallow and sensation-driven writing that everyone else in the American media seems to be doing just to keep your job at Washington Post, you are just as corrupt as all those bank CEOs who went along with others in the industry to make irresponsible risky loans for quick profits and caused a huge mess for the whole world. The mainstream media may be able to lie to the American public about the world while they claim to be baffled as to why so many people in the Middle East, Russia, South America, Asia and Africa as well as Europe who hate the US. But those of us who read and watch news reporting from all sources will never believe your lies. I have nothing but pity for you, Mr. Pomfret.

OnPoint1 Author Profile Page:

Wow! So many diverse opinions. . .I simply can't resist adding fuel to the fire.

The simple explanation is most likely to be the correct one: Given the last 150 years or so of Chinese history they are primarily concerned, rightly or wrongly, with any threat to internal stability and unity. After many, many decades of political fragmentation and naked foreign intervention in internal matters, the Chinese government is again manifesting it's signal and characteristic response - Stay out of our internal affairs!

Civil disorder is on the rise in China, and it is likely in my view that the response will ultimately be the traditional, and heavy-handed use of the Peoples Liberation Army to restore order and stability.

An internal political realignment also seems likely in the near future, probably under the auspices of "stamping out corruption," or some such reason/excuse.

Put simply: The rulers of China will do everything in their power to demonstrate that they are absolutely in control, and that they have the will to remain in power whatever the international consequences.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

@mibrooks27

The Greeks were visionaries. Consider this.

In Greek mythology, the Minotaur has the body of a man and the head and tail of a bull. He grows to become ferocious. A gigantic and elaborate maze-like construction is built, in Knossos, to hold the Minotaur. To stop a terrible plague that has come upon them, Athenians are required to send, every year, seven Athenian youths and seven maidens, drawn by lots, to be devoured by the Minotaur.

Sounds familiar?

I don’t know any contemporary Theseus who will volunteer to go and slay that monster. Do you?

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

JSTANLEY747 - Well, I seem to remember Genghis Khan conquering the Xia Xia (Xian today) empire first and then conquering Beijing at least once maybe twice. Sorry the reference is not handy for me to cite.

As they were nomads, they had no ability to administer conquered lands. A lesson learned either when they took Xia Xia and Beijing the first time. Conquer then withdraw.

I believe Genghis learned to retain the bureaucracy, administrative and yes, cultrual elements of the Beijing government/civilization at that time to supplement his strengths and address his weaknesses. A very famous Chinese figure, can't recall, of history became his main advisor/administrator. Interestingly enough the Incas pursued a similar strategy.

So, yes taking control of the capital and inserting yourself at the head of its bureaucracy is a voluntary assimilation in that you occupy the land? Maybe it is better to say he absorbed the elements of Chinese urban culture that he lacked? Nevertheless, he was the ruler and he was not Han and yet he is regarded as Chinese.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

mibrooks27 writes: "This is the perfect time, then, to call an end to the globalization nonsense."

I believe I can understand how you feel, Mike, but there is no going back

As Hans Tietemeier, president of the Bundesbank, told the heads of state gathered at the 1996 World Economic Forum, in Davos (that was 12 years ago!): “From now on, you are under the control of world financial markets.”

The US helped generate that beast and insisted it should be allowed to roam and plunder the world, including this country, with impunity. The beast has apparently become “too big to fail”. All we can do now, we are told, is help it survive, even that means bleeding to death in the process.

No, mark my words, there is no going back and this drama is of our own making. Super power!

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page:

JSTANLEY747 - Of course I know, and so does everyone else here. The difference is, you keep trying to change the subject, conveniently ignoring the fact that those trillions of dollars derive from the free traitors and like vermin that continue to run their scams. Are you really so stupid hat you don't see the short sellers manipulating the stock market up and down in three day cycles? Are you so blind that you cannot fathom how China was propped up as a competitor for resources, like oil and metals and other commodities, by these same vermin? Now, China has amassed well over 1.5 trillion dollars in U.S. currency reserves and god only knows how much in assets and offshored infrastructure and production capacity. The "mortgage meltdown"? What do you think was the base cause? It was people not being able to pay their mortgages because they lost their jobs or were forced to trade wages and benefits to keep them from being outsourced! If we got back about one-quarter of the jobs we outsourced over the past 8 years, around 10 million of those 40 million outsourced jobs, the present economic death spiral would end overnight. Europe understands this and is taking steps to do just that. Why is that "geniuses" like yourself fail to understand that? I think it is because you are so purposefully smug, so ignorant of history and basic economics, that you must be one of those MBA graduates from our schools. Pathetic.

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

mibrooks27 wrote: "China, India, job outsourcing and acting as a dumping ground for their young cheap workers, was the CAUSE, THE PRIMARY CAUSE, of the current depression."

Do you know what a Credit Default Swap is? It's a totally made-in-America, 62 TRILLION dollar problem. Do you know why Warren Buffet called it a "weapon of financial mass destruction"? If you can't answer these questions, perhaps you should expose your ignorance on some other forum.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page:

POLITICUS1 - "China is key to any economic recovery in the west..." Oh, yah, like we really need poison baby food and pharmaceutical drugs, new Mac with keyboards that stick and monitors with huge dead zone right out of the box. Are you crazy? Or, maybe, one of those million or so cheap guest workers? WE NEED CHINA LIKE WE NEED A BULLET IN THE HEAD! The sooner we end our suicidal one sided trade relations with China and India, the sooner we can start recovering from our current economic plight. China, India, job outsourcing and acting as a dumping ground for their young cheap workers, was the CAUSE, THE PRIMARY CAUSE, of the current depression. Get those jobs back here, tax the living snot out of goods and services entering this country, produced by U.S. based companies and supported by U.S. investors and their money, and the jobs would come flooding home. End the H1-B visa and force every single one of those 3 million "guest workers" back home to India and CHina and you provide jobs, immediate jobs, for 3 million American workers that were displaced by those H1-B workers in the first place. Likewise, end any government subsidies for university science and engineering programs admitting foreign students before American students and you will end the nonsense where more than 50% of the engineering, science, computer programming, and medical students admitted into those schools are from ....tah, dah!... China and India! (The universities receive FOUR TIMES the tuition and fees from foreign students, usually paid in a block by their governments; it's cheaper than building a campus, hiring qualified instructors and staff, equipping laboratories and facilities, etc. and if this country is such a bunch of suckers to allow this nonsense, well then, they will take advantage of it, thank you very much!) So, give us all a big hearty break. Free trade, globalization aren't "inevitable", they are a an unmitigated disaster that have to be ended and China, far from being "our savior", is a competitor in the world for jobs, resources, capital, power, and culture. It's high time we started to recognize that fact and treat China (and India) accordingly.

politicus1 Author Profile Page:

The reason is one and only one:

China is key to any economic recovery in the west so they can afford to force other government to stop bugging them on some of their own regional problems. China didn't blew it, Europe did, believing they do their own moral propaganda in Asia without retaliation.

mibrooks27 Author Profile Page:

This is the perfect time, then, to call an end to the globalization nonsense. How about bringing back tariffs and duties on goods and services imported into this country? For goo measure, let's add punitive taxes on investments and *investors", as well as businesses, that outsource jobs to China. With enough encouragement, I'd bet Apple would close down their Mac and iPod assembly plants in China and bring the jobs back to the U.S. where they belong anyways. We could do the same with Microsoft and Dell and their god-awful Call Centers that have been relocated India (if Dell had to pay $5 for every Call Center call how long do you think it would take them to move back to Texas?). China has assembled a huge reserve of U.S. currency and assets by being allowed to prey on this country. U.S. companies and investors have moved millions of jobs off shore, have scoured the world looking for the cheapest production costs they can find, usually by the guest government's permitting atrocious working conditions, having no environmental laws, and by collusion on the part of our government in not requiring those companies to pay taxes and duties and tariffs on the goods and services they reimport. So, now we have an excuse to end it. Europe, from everything I see, is doing exactly that with China and with India. We need to emulate them and start treating the free traitors amongst us as the vermin, the economic pedophiles they are.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

兩岸的「互不為難」
黃創夏
China Times


「我是中華民國總統馬英九」,這樣的聲音播放出來,對台灣人民而言,這半年以來是司空見慣。

但是,這樣的聲音,卻是從「中央廣播電台」的「台灣之音」播放出來,主要的受眾是中國大陸的聽眾,在兩岸互動歷史上,卻是又邁向了一大里程碑。

十二月三日上午大清早,我應邀到央廣擔任馬英九接受央廣訪問的現場即時評論者,到了現場,聽央廣人員說明後才驚覺,馬英九的這場訪問竟然是如此重大。

因為,馬英九這場訪問,中國大陸方面竟然願意保持「不為難」的態度,破天荒同意讓馬英九的聲音,立刻透過聯播網即時播放,中國大陸方面首度不設限。

九點十五分,馬英九在央廣一樓的聲音播放出去後,不到一分鐘後,央廣的工作人員進到同步轉播的三樓錄音間內,手中擺出OK手勢,中國大陸方面完全沒有「封網」,對方的「聯播網」同步啟動,「中華民國總統馬英九」真的透過「台灣之音」登陸中國了。

從一九二八年成立至今,央廣成立已經八十年了。但是,從一九四九年以後,中國大陸的聽眾,就從來沒有正式地聽到「中華民國總統」這字眼,更別說能聽到「中華民國總統」直接和大陸民眾空中對話了。上一次中國的老人家,聽過的「中華民國總統」叫蔣介石,是在重慶與南京發音的。

再聽到「中華民國總統」,真的是隔世之音啊!

其實,馬英九並不是第一個接受央廣專訪的中華民國總統,陳水扁任內也曾經接受過一次央廣專訪。但那一次,中國大陸恰好「設備故障」,播出陳水扁專訪的那一天之前後連續好幾天,央廣都被中國大陸「封音」,所以,陳水扁的專訪並未登陸。

隨著兩岸的融冰進展,原本,總統府與央廣人員直到確定大陸真的不封音前,都先懷忐忑,不知中國大陸會不會臨時變卦,讓馬英九又變成「獨白」。

結果,中國沒有,中國大陸方面完全如同先前的默契,讓「中華民國總統」隔了五十九年,將近一甲子,又可以和大陸民眾「空中相會」。

這是一件小事,卻正是馬英九與胡錦濤兩人在這半年間不斷強調的「正視現實,互不否認」,彼此「互不為難」的逐步表現。難怪在受訪期間,馬英九對於台灣是否能在明年以適當名義參與WHA,表現的充滿信心。

連台灣、中國兩方都互不為難了,台灣島內的藍與綠,還要彼此為難對方,無法擺脫仇恨動員的殊死對立?這是我走出央廣之後,腦海裡不斷浮現的疑問‧‧‧

Somali Author Profile Page:

Where is my comment, white man? You have divided the world into different colours and used this method to STEAL, MURDER, RAPE and DESTROY entire nations,, white man. You call me a Muslim and Kill me for my DIFFRENCE and you have labeled African Americans "Black people" and Enslaved them on that basis!!!

BUT, and this a big BUT, when I say White man and describe your idiocy nd stupidity, you HOLd my COMMENt??

DAILY you talk about Muslims on your gdamned websites and you have consistently advocated the mass murder of Muslims, the TORTURE of Muslims, stupid white man and you are GENERALLY a well-known racist criminal white man and now you want to POLICE the views of oters Moron?

WHERE IS MY COMMENT AND IF YOU FIND IT OFFESIVE, YOU BLODY HYPOCRITE, YOU DON'T THINK WE MUSLIMS DON'T FIND YOUR CRIMINAL HYPOCRICY AND RACISM AND WAR CRIMES AGAINST OUR CHILDREN AND WOMEN OFFENSIVE, MORON??

IDIOTS!!!

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

joewashington1 wrote: "Correction: The Mongols conquered the Middle Kingdom. The Han then adopted that history as Chinese, sort of reverse assimilation."

You have it wrong. It's the Mongols who were assimilated: Kubla Khan and his people voluntarily adopted Chinese culture; the Mongols were the rulers at the time, so you can be sure the assimilation was voluntary.

It was the same with the Norman conquest of England after the Battle of Hastings in 1066. The English certainly don't consider themselves Vikings, do they, even if their conquerors were. And the reason is that the Normans voluntarily adopted English culture and were assimilated.

The Normans became English, and the Mongols became Chinese. There's nothing strange about that.

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

chinayouren wrote: "Why do chinese people get so excited about a meeting with DL? How is this offensive for the Chinese, when neither of the 2 parties in the meeting are demanding independence from China?"

Because the Dalai Lama is on the CIA's payroll, as proven by declassified CIA documents.

He is also as much of a terrorist, by the US's own definition, as Osama bin Laden. Osama was almost certainly not directly involved in 9/11; he's at too high a level to be personally concerned with the details. But al Qaeda is his organization, so he is responsible. It's the same with the Dalai Lama and the many terrorist acts his people have committed.

Why shouldn't China be upset when France, by treating this terrorist as a hero, lends him legitimacy and gives his cause invaluable publicity? What would you think of France if Osama bin Laden got the same treatment from them?

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

Anyone care to know that Tibet representatives were one of the parties who wrote the Constitution of the Republic of China. (That's the name of the republic before People's Republic of China was formed in 1949. For those of you who claim to be China expert, I am not talk you guys down, just trying to be practical, OK?) I am sure foreign countries like Japan and United States alike were not invited to write the Chinese Constitution. Speak of Tibet being an "independent country", if so, what business they had to write Chinese Constitution?

PeterT2 Author Profile Page:

Meeting with DL empowers him which China do not like. Same feeling will be for US if some important state meet with Bin Laden/for Spanish if meet its separatists, oh that's right, some one already did that/or for France if someone meets with Corsica, Brittany, Euskadi, Catalonia , or French Flanders separatists.

Refer to Dalai Autonomy post about some of his conditions for "autonomy".

ywhoward Author Profile Page:

By going to Europe (how many time?), Dalai Lama is talking to the wrong crowd. He appeals his message to western media; he neglects the real audience – the ordinary and moderate Chinese. Who does the Chinese government fears more these days, EU leader, western media or its own citizens? His tactics lets the Chinese government freely push its own agenda on Tibet and make him the public enemy - anti-racial harmony, anti-Tibet economy development and etc. I would not be surprised that some Chinese citizens view him as we see Bin Laden here.

chinayouren Author Profile Page:

PS. Check interesting discussion on this issue here:

http://chinayouren.com/eng/2008/12/the-eu-summit-and/

chinayouren Author Profile Page:

Why do chinese people get so excited about a meeting with DL? How is this offensive for the Chinese, when neither of the 2 parties in the meeting are demanding independence from China?

Pure paranoia.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

PETERT2 - Well said. Most westerners tend to focus on when the Chinese troops went into Tibet in ~ 1950 as the starting point of the discussion. They fail to realize that the starting point for the issue is about 750 years before that event.

Was Tibet ever a member of the League of Nations during the brief period when it was quasi independent/ignored roughly between WW1 and WW2?

yudong2 Author Profile Page:

"You meet with Buddhist spiritual leader, we blow off key meeting on future of the world."

I seldom see a childish and simplistic statements like this. The author really feels he knows something enough in order to talk about the complexity of the affairs this way ah?. How many US media talk heads are making a living like this?

jeff8888 Author Profile Page:

EU are just the same gangs of thugs and goons as its master USA. It is a group of noisy and impotent proteges of USA. 20 years ago, people might need to pay some ransoms to these proteges while negotiating a final ransom from its master. Now, the world is different. Rusia is recovering; India is a strong pole now; Brazille is catching up; ASIAN and African Union are becoming players too. It is time to ignore these gangs of proteges but directly deal with their master. Let's their master to decide how to break the ransoms.

shadaypr Author Profile Page:

BTW, I must clarify, just in case, that by condemning the "petulant 3-yr-old girl" comparison as immature, not smart and unprofessional, I'm not referring the same adjectives to the author as a person. My intent is one of respectful criticism in any direction.

PeterT2 Author Profile Page:

As for Dalai Lama, since he is both a political leader and religious leader, there is no way to separate him by calling him either a splittist or buddhist. He is both and neither.

As for his "autonomy", if it means to control 1/4 of China's land (greater Tibet as he called it in 1989), removal of all non-Tibet races from this area, control all aspect of social, political, and reglious life in Tibet just like he did during the 1940's up to mid 1950's, it is no wonder China rejected his "autonomy".

By the way, if anyone care to read some more history, the title of Dalai Lama was first given by the Mongols, then every Dalai Lama that came afterwards needed to be approved by the central government of China during the Yuan, Ming, Qing Dynasty. The current Dalai Lama was approved during its self-proclaimed independent years by the Republic of China's leader during the 1930's I believe. The action along disproves Tibet was independent as head of states do not need constant 700 years of approval of another state.

PeterT2 Author Profile Page:

Surely that one nation cannot dictate another to or not to meet someone. But the diplomatic repercussion of meeting someone that another do not like will have problems.

China warned, Sarkozy ignored, China acted negatively, EU whined. I don't see anything surprising about China's move. Any human with emotions can easily do so. Whining about China's reactions only show how little power EU has over China nowadays compare to 20 years ago.

shadaypr Author Profile Page:

As I shared this article on Facebook, I commented the following:

If you want to see some Chinese' comments full of patriotism and rage against Western "anti-China" attacks, check the comments on this article.

The author wrote a book which I've been meaning to check out, Chinese Lessons. I am actually disappointed that he compared the Chinese government to a "petulant 3-yr-old" girl. It's a low and is far from serious commenting. It just gives more reason to the bunch of "pro-China" comments that are full of insults to him, the US-Americans, the French and the West. So he does pull many people with him to that low. I do agree with him that China made a wrong move there, but I think he did as well with this entry. I don't think it's mature, smart or professional to use insulting language to invite an opposing response of equal or worse language.

Still, as always, it's interesting to see the arguments of "pro-China" commentators (I imagine Chinese) which bring up different issues and points of view.

PeterT2 Author Profile Page:

Actually, the Kubla Khan established the Yuan Dynasty and followed the Han tradition of claiming the Mandate of Heaven. He carved up the Mongol Empire across Asia to several kingdoms while ruling them as Emperor from China. His court system is exactly like of the Han emperors of the past and the title of Emperor is of Han as he abandoned the Mongol title of Khan.

In essence to rule China, he had to become Chinese. It is easily seen if people to read some history

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

To SteveRosePhoto

Well actually the commercial paper issued to the market is below the US Govt in the food chain. That is when the USG took 80% stakes in AIG, Freddie and Fannie, it's a convertible preferred, with a preferance over the existing paper holders. There will not be much left if these fold for the commercial paper holders, and zero for the common stock holders.

Given the USA need for foreign capital inflows, and the importance of the strategic partnership, I'm sure the USG will treat the Chinese investments special and with preferance.

I'm just trying to find out what the $2T is invested in other than TBills. I know they set
~$20B in funds aside for CIC to invest for higher returns, but I'd bet that they bought up MBS and CDOs, given the Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are their big advisor - ie. salespeople. The story line was "implicit USG guarantee with higher returns."

If anyone can shed light on the portfolio allocation, I would appreciate it.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

Correction: The Mongols conquered the Middle Kingdom. The Han then adopted that history as Chinese, sort of reverse assimilation.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Cdav531: It can also be said that "The reality is that the vast majority of anti-China people have no idea what the real story is because the anti-China thug and goons has done such a great job of changing and distorting it. When they get sanctimonious without even knowing the truth they sound quite silly". That is the Monguls VOLUNTARILY and COMPLETELY integrated themslves into the Chinese society and what they owned, therefore, belongs to China, including Tibet. I hope you understand.

ckk2008 Author Profile Page:

China, Tibet, Dalai Lama and not dismissing from people minds are the plight of the American Indians, Hawaiians, Palestinians, Iraqis, Australian Aborigines.Already the Tibetans are
getting better attention from the west and the chinese,thanks to the Dalai Lama and a conditioned dislike anything chinese in the west.
The French president may have old memories of french colonists in China, Vietnam, and Africa and of hundreds of nuclear bombs and few aircraft carriers, can't help not to posture (immature leftovers)
American Indians, Hawaiians, Palestinians, Iraqis, Australian Aborigines seem to be no issues in the western press. In the west instead of wishing peace for others, we wish their disgrace; instead of feeling compassion for the suffering of others, we think theydeserve it; instead of feeling joy at the success of others, we feel jealousy; instead of treating others as the same, we discriminate among superior and lower.

anakin1992 Author Profile Page:

john,

to breakup with EU, the time could not be better than now. one stone kills 2 birds: on one hand the breakup would stop EU asking for economic support and indicates US is the only one china cares most; on the other hand, china is playing upper hand to deal with EU on this tibet issue once for all and showing the frustration over EU's political inconsistency over trade, military, and politics.

in a brazen statement: china does not want EU to have that new financial system, if without any concrete gestures from EU. nothing is free at this time.

Janman Author Profile Page:

Something is fishy over here. Why is going on with Sarkozy and Dalai Lama meeting up so often? Damned, can somebody please report what is going on with their hidden relationship?

jstanley747 Author Profile Page:

WHLIU2001 wrote:

"There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union."

Ha ha ha ha ha, you Americans are such liars and hypocrites. Here is what actually happened in Hawaii: the Americans overthrew the previous government. In the subsequent referendum to join the U.S., voting was restricted to wealthy Americans, Europeans, and their native Hawaiian puppets. So of course the fraudulent referendum succeeded.

Hawaii's annexation by the U.S. was about as "voluntary" on Hawaii's part as the Trail of Tears was for the Cherokee.

dummy4peace Author Profile Page:

"We hope France will make efforts to honor its commitments and not do things that harm the feelings of the Chinese people or undermine the foundation for the two countries' cooperation."

I am really glad that the Chinese government now really cares about how their people feel, especially after the Olympics. I remember our Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier was refused a port call in Hong Kong last Thanksgiving, because President Bush received Dalai Lama at the White House. Then they changed their mind, but Kitty Hawk had left for Japan through Taiwan Strait, which angered China. We didn't know Dalai Lama has such a great influence on China.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@Hypocrite1,

The number of posts is apparently positively correlated with the amount of controversy the author can stir up.

The previous posters suggest it is also highly correlated to the year-end bonus John Pomfret receives. I do not know that. But since John is hired to do this job, he'd better be good at provoking people and creating conflicts, to make a living.


jeff8888 Author Profile Page:

Franch is a funny country. It reminds me one of my former coworker. The guy had skills only at most at Sr Engineer level, but always behaved like a CTO. He was not only trying to challange our boss but also scornful at other coworkers too.
Although our boss was sometimes tough and ugly, but he did have the skill to be a CTO. Not like a new entry-level guy who might have a chance to grow up to be CTO, this guy has 25-year experiences.
Frankly speaking, Franch is only a slave of USA, or at most a protege. If it behaves a little bit reasonable and respectful each other, China might support its goal to challange its master USA. But since it is as defiant and ugly as its master, it is much better for China to keep his cards and deal with its master USA directly. In any case, China is far from ready to play a big role in current Financial reform by challanging USA. It is Franch (EU) might have a chance.

But, Well, I would like to bet that Franch would be like the very former coworker of mine: the first one to be layoff when our team was in trouble.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

WHLIU2001 wrote:

"There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union."

Do we really have to mention how Europeans (Americans) "civilized" native Americans? Some called that genocide. Not cultural or religion genocide but genicide on real human life, clean up of a whole race. It was only as recent as a few hundred years ago. Last time I checked, native Americans speak much better American English than Tibetans can speak Chinese. I don't find many movies in Blockbuster praising native American heros fighting against European invasion. Can someone help me on which part I was wrong? If someone feel tired of me going through this American Indian story again and again, I feel sick reading "China's invasion of Tibet" story too. Believe me, North American was never part of Europeans. It's much more bloody than Tibet.

jc2000 Author Profile Page:

To cdav531:

I don't think it's a matter of face or face for CCP leaders. Constantly being the target on various issues for decades, These CCP elite almost "got no face left". You can brand them as whatever you'd like, but there is one thing you need to understand is that they are the ruling elites and they are definitely not stupid. They are perfectly aware of this face thing and they are also very aware that it's not likely they are going to earn it back any time soon. The same goes for the pride. If face worth nothing, pride worth nothing. The average Chinese people are different. They do act on these pride or face thing a lot.

What's most important for both of them is the national interest at here. DL wants China, with a population of more than 1 billion, to fork out 1/4 of its land mass and hand it over to a few millions of Tibetans. That doesn't look much like a good deal for CCP leaders, nor to average Chinese. That's quite a stake here. It really doesn't matter its French or American or whoever else, or how Tibet came to under Chinese rule. What matters is China has something and when you want to take it away, they won't let you and they will try to use whatever leverage they can get to counter whatever leverage you throw to them. The real question at here is of course, when you try to gain something you might lose on something else and a good player gets most while losing the least. It’s nothing about face, it’s just plain interest conflict here.

CCP leaders are well aware that when hundreds of millions of unemployed Chinese lose their ability to feed their families they won't care whose fault it is. They’ve been dealing with this for years and that's why they have always been keeping economy as its #1 priority. Haven't you heard that they risking everything else to pursue economy growth? Also, the Chinese economy is still growing, even though at a much slower rate. That means if there are hundreds of millions people who are unable to feed their family today, there were actually more yesterday. So the genie is not just out of the bottle, it has already been out for a long time.

Nobody should hope the Chinese economy to sink. As you pointed out, everybody is on the same ship. It's a lot more comfortable on the ship than in the water.

pug_ster Author Profile Page:

Why has China screwed this one up? The factories in China are going to close anyways as China does not want to be the cheap crap manufacturer of the world anyways. I think EU has screwed it up because the EU countries needs China's to sell stuff to China and to borrow their money. Maybe China should make it harder for Carefour to do business in China and see how Sarkozy likes it.

sweetycat Author Profile Page:

John Pomfret, are you an idot? Please state the truth. China didn't cancel the summit. France did. China just wanted to postpone the summit due to French President Sarkotrash's disrespect to Chinese government and Chinese people by insisting on meeting with Dalai Lama.

Hypocrite1 Author Profile Page:

Dear John:
did you notice this yet: the number of the post here is highly correlated to the DOW. When DOW goes up, people post more. It is better have your post on bullish days.

By the way, let the Chinese and European do the dog-bite-dog stuff. Who really cares their future and their world. I (and you should too) only care this world in United States of Socialism America. I am worried a lot about $8 trillion debt Uncle Sam just brought upon us, the future of medicare, social security, etc. I hope you did not lose anything yet in the stock moarket and have enough money for your retirement. This is the bottom line of your world.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@JOEWASHINGTON1,

Freddie Mac's stock is a completely different thing. The stock may actually go to 0. But the bonds is backed up by Uncle Sam so tax-payers money is used to pay back China, in a way.

Chinese government did not buy Freddie Mac's stock, as far as I am aware of.

cdav531 Author Profile Page:

The posting above fails to mention, of course, that the Yuan "Dynasty" is actually another name for the Mongols, who were not even Chinese. Tibet and China were brought together only because the Mongols conquered them both. Hardly something to be proud of. Maybe Tibet should be part of Mongolia. Or Mongolia should be part of China. Would that shut up some of the blindly nationalistic Chinese who blather on about this topic constantly? The reality is that the vast majority of Chinese have no idea what the real story is because the government has done such a great job of changing and distorting it. When they get sanctimonious without even knowing the truth they sound quite silly.

Chinese are generally wonderful people but their complete inability to admit even the tiniest of mistakes in an effort to "save face" is far and away their largest shortcoming. (It hasn't exactly worked wonders for Bush either, of course.) Now that they have taken their stand against France they will stick to it no matter what because to do otherwise would be to lose face. It is also very Chinese to cast blame elsewhere for the current crisis, in an ongoing effort to cast China as a "victim." It's getting old but as long as it keeps a lid on internal dissent the government will keep using it. What it fails to realize is that hundreds of millions of unemployed Chinese aren't going to care whose "fault" the crisis is when they suddenly lose their ability to feed their families. The genie is out of the bottle. Chinese are used to a modicum of prosperity now. Who knows what will happen when it is taken away?

Swallow some pride, China. Like it or not, we're all in this boat together. If it sinks we all have to either learn to swim or drown.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@JOEWASHINGTON1

Freddie Mac is bailed out by the US government so their bonds is not worth less. In fact, they are the same as US government bonds now, only with higher returns.

See this one:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D94Q2O6G0.htm

They just sold $1b worth of bonds with 1% rate above government bonds.


wangAustin Author Profile Page:

Haven't we heard this same kind of noise from EU when Russia invaded Geogia? Wasn't Russia's behavior even worse than China's in the eyes of the Westerners? Read today's newspaper, and see what is happening now between Russian and EU!

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

Forget about the Pomfret article. He is a columnist with a brand that requires him to write with this tone. There is better content in the comments.

To WHLIU2001(?) - How do you know about the Freddie and Fannie Bonds? Can you steer me to a source? I much suspect the same.

jc2000 Author Profile Page:

Why people are still citing history reasons for Tibet?

In today’s world you don't get things just because your ancestors owned it 1000 years ago. Nobody gives you a penny for that. They give you a penny when they think what you do for them worth a penny.

So what's the point of arguing to whom Tibet belongs hundreds years ago? Tibet is where it is now. So look forward, not backward from there. You people first chose a side, then citing histories to prove your side is correct and the other side is wrong. But the other side that you are trying to prove wrong has already chosen a side! When people already think you are a pig whatever you do are just lipstick on a pig at most.

The only exception is, when the pig can do amazing things that the non-pigs can not do, the non-pigs will revere the pig as their pig god. You gain respect by the current you being able to; not by your ancestors was able to.

thmak Author Profile Page:

Pomfret's profession depends on his anti-China rhetorics. I wonder if he ever changes to pro-China stance, how many and what kind of responses will he get.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@WHLIU2001,

It was Queen Liliuokalani, not a King, at the time when she has to resign at gunpoint.

dios Author Profile Page:

To Ji Ming,
In today's world, it's better to own someone else $10 trillion than to lend someone else that much money. As the Chinese saying goes: the borrower is king and the lender does the begging. Really, who do you think is more worried? You probably wouldn't rest easy at night if you lend someone your life savings, and pray that he will pay you back.

whliu2001 Author Profile Page:

Here is my reply to "dotellen" whose original reply is at the bottom of this post.

The difference between Tibet and Hawaii is as following:

Tibet VOLUNTARILY joined China 800 years ago. China administered Tibet since Yuan Dynasty and validated every generation of Dalai Lama since then. The current Dalai Lama is not happy because he lost power as both the King and Pope of Tibet and he wants to grasp back that power. He fought a war against China for 10 years from 1959 to 1970 before CIA cut off his funding.

The original Hawaiian residents were wiped by the white immigrants from Europe and the Hawaiian King is forced to resign under gun. The Hawaii is voted to join the union by the white immigrants, not by the original Hawaiian residents. They still want their independent state back as of today.

On your complain about the quality of Chinese products. I am wondering how much did you pay for the rope. You shouldn't complain about that at all as China has brought billions of Mannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds and they are now worthless. They are junk bonds sold by you, yourself, because you are living in a home that you actually cannot afford. You brought that cheap product probably because you are trying to save money to pay your mortgage.


dotellen :
WHLIU2001 wrote: "....Just like majority of Americans will get very mad if China supports to separate Hawaii out of the states of the union. ..."

There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union.

Besides, your products are junk! I bought some rope made in China and it has rotted to pieces, I nearly fell off my roof when I grabbed the piece I had left hanging there for support and it broke. "Don't Buy Junk that comes from China!" (Sung to the tune of "Don't Stop thinking about Tomorrow")

whliu2001 Author Profile Page:

Here is my reply to "dotellen". his original reply is at the bottom of this post.

The difference between Tibet and Hawaii is as following:

Tibet VOLUNTARILY joined China 800 years of old. China administered Tibet since Yuan Dynasty and validated every generation of Dalai Lama since then. The current Dalai Lama is not happy because he lost power as both the King and Pope of Tibet and he wants to get back to power.

The original Hawaiians were wiped by the white immigrants for Europe and the Hawaiian King is forced to resign under the gunship. The Hawaii is voted to join the union by the white immigrants, not by the original Hawaiian residents. They still want their independent state back as of today.

On your complain about the quality of the products. I am wondering how much did you pay for the rope. You shouldn't complain about that at all as China has brought billions of Mannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds and they are now worthless. They are junk bonds sold by you, yourself, because you are living in a home that you actually cannot afford. You brought that cheap product probably because you are trying to save money to pay your mortgage.


dotellen :
WHLIU2001 wrote: "....Just like majority of Americans will get very mad if China supports to separate Hawaii out of the states of the union. ..."

There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union.

Besides, your products are junk! I bought some rope made in China and it has rotted to pieces, I nearly fell off my roof when I grabbed the piece I had left hanging there for support and it broke. "Don't Buy Junk that comes from China!" (Sung to the tune of "Don't Stop thinking about Tomorrow")

crystalseashore Author Profile Page:

Frankly, I'm really happy about this economic meltdown. Finally people will understand the difference between when you can solve your problem with a bit of bug spray or when you need to burn the whole infested orchard down and start fresh with new trees. At last Americans will be forced to give up their mindless consumerism and buy only things that they need. That will solve the entire trade imbalance with China.

indep2 Author Profile Page:

Awww... poor little monkeys trying to make a political statement... How cute...

jiaming Author Profile Page:

You can pretend you are daddy lecturing a 3-year-old all you want. The fact remains, you are still broke and constantly begging this 3-year-old to lend you more money.

faithfulservant3 Author Profile Page:

The EU knew the risks. Out of all the injustices in the world they chose to make this relatively small one a priority.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Pomfret: Pomfret is ignorant to the fact that Dalai Lama is the head of the so-called exiled Tibetan government over his religious role. It is more appropriate to say "There is still something of the petulant 2-year-old here, brazenly pursuing something that is decidedly not in his interests. It illustrates the fact that Pomfret, his strategy and its world view are anything but mature." . First, Pomfret is ignorant to the fact that USA is the root cause of the present world-wide economic meltdown, creating hardship in every countries including China. That is to say USA started this first ever economic World War I. Second, it's not like a meeting between Sarkozy and the Dalai Lama is going to amount too much for Sarkozy to be enlightened by Dalai in dealing with the economic crisis or his own spiritual ascendency anyway. It's not going to result in the needed political support that Dalai could contribute to render France to regain her past colonial glories again, right? And it certainly does not resuscitate the moribund talks that representatives of the Dalai Lama have been holding with France for several years now to grant France priveleges once Dalai gains independence in Tibet. Those talks are practically dead now. So why did Sarkozy really blow off Hu? The reality is that France just screwed this one up.

,

patmatthews Author Profile Page:

Maybe the US business' should have considered the outcome of putting the keys to their cars in the hands of three year olds, instead of leaving the keys in the hands of mature American business' that were respected prior to the Bush Administration's giving tax breaks to American companies for relocating their business to foreign countries like China and India. It serves these companies right to trust immature bussiness' with their futures and their profits. Short lived views at best, and that is why China does not have to come to the table, because America is their biggest buyer. Ask Sam Walton that has built factories in China including outlets for their cheap junk, as well.

Patrick

mshalt Author Profile Page:

Many people in the West still think they are universal experts that have to tell the rest of the world the right thing. The author of this article has that collective mental disease.
China has qualified people that know what's right and what's wrong for Chinese people. If they need your expertise they will talk to you as they do at Harvard, MIT, Oxford....
Europe wants a disintegration of China by helping Tibet to break away. Europeans may not be happy in the way the current nation of China has got the territories it has now. But they need to know that China is not the country that has been formed in the most questionable ways. Most European countries, USA, Russia... are what they are because of conquest wars, annexations...
May be Sarkotrash needs to set some French provinces like Corsica, French Guyana, Reunion... independent as an example and then enroll in a rebellion that will help Tibet to secede. He also needs to stop his supremacist views he expressed in Dakar-Senegal when he said that Africans have no glorious history and civilization of their own they can refer to. All peoples of the world are not going to accept such arrogance and empty belief of superiority in the minds of European leaders.

citigreg Author Profile Page:

Who cares? China is feeding the world chemicals. Tell them goodby and everyone stop buying their crap. Then see how long it takes for them to come around.

teplicky101 Author Profile Page:

Rome burns? I heard Venice is under water, but there was no news about fires in Rome. Or you are suggesting maybe that someone has become an emperor of some empire and has set intentionally metaphorical fires to a part of it, and that has a relation to the diplomatic talks? Oh, my.

youngmen Author Profile Page:

oh! my god! is this writer's level? too simple,too young! i want to say that you don't understand china and chinese people at all.
i think you should know a little about china's history and now.china have accepted the world,but the west have been a ostrich.

mond12 Author Profile Page:

One correction. China did not cancel the summit. France did. As reporter, Mr. Pomfret should stick to the fact.

It is not a like 3-year-old decision. It is a real mature decision. If I were the government leader, I will do the same thing. It is all about the national interest. Under a tough circumstance, China does not have a good chance to benefit from the summit. So better not attend the summit. So using DL as an excuse, delay the summit at first. Then the French jumped out and did what the Chinese wanted--cancel the summit.

It also sends a clear warning to other nations in Eu and shows some toughness to the Chinese people.Americans may have a hard time to understand how the Chinese think about the French. If someone came from the other side of the earth and burned down Washington DC, you will know the feeling. I am sorry, but the French should pay for what they did since 1840.

In the meantime, the Chinese are still doing business with France. They are buying French companies at very low price. And that's something I call mature. Hiding whatever you think, do the right business all the time.

For a single man , it takes decades to achieve something. However, for a nation, it takes centuries.


yihong Author Profile Page:

pomfret: Did you think that China is an idiot same as you?

lhao333 Author Profile Page:

Europe needs China as much as China needs Europe.
You can not expect to do business with China while undermining her stability.
"European businesses want to know why they sell more stuff to Switzerland than to China." what does this meant? chances are there are European businesses sell more to Switzerland than to China no matter what.
Just so much hot air here.
About maturity, Chinese government did not invade another country and caused hundreds thousands people to die.

thmak Author Profile Page:

To Jay-Casey: Your post can be corrected to read: This article says it like it needs to be said. Pmfret is Wrong, France often cuts off its nose to spite its face. The reason France punishes China as if it were a child is because France thinks China is in weak enough position to be bullied. France knows that it can't control Washington so they pick on the waffling Chinese that have set themselves up to be bullied.

Donald2 Author Profile Page:

Can someone tell Tibetans to simply do something constructive? When did you hear Tibetans ever produce anything other than crying foul and taking money from various governments to act like professional abusees?

George20 Author Profile Page:

My sense ..
Neither Zhong Guo ren nor Mei Guo ren are completely honest about the natures of their countries. The Americans seem like Socialist Capitalists - (eroding) Bill of Rights, Government for the People By the People, and lip service to free markets - perceived as "liberal/progressive" in the world.
The Chinese are Authoritarian Capitalists - a dominating National government perceived as "conservative" in the world.
Yet they seem increasingly more alike over the last 60 years. Same wants, same needs, same fears.
W

JMGinPDX Author Profile Page:

kuvasz said "a 3,000 year old civilisation acting like a 3 year old = china."
--------------
Actually, it's not the 3,000 year old Chinese civilization acting like a 3-year-old, it's the ridiculous and out-of-touch Communist government that has taken over the country that is acting like a 3-year-old. They have NOTHING to do with real Chinese culture, and in fact have done a fine job destroying it.

China keeps trying to fit the square peg into a round hole on one of their cheap, defective baby toys.

China, and some of the supporters of the Chinese regime (who have obviously had too much of the kool-aid) who are posting here, prove that people will ignore reality and hold fast to asinine ideas far longer than is sane or reasonable.

jc2000 Author Profile Page:

A few points:

1. It's not that just China needs Europe. Europe needs China as well. So China canceled the summit is just a diplomatic maneuver;
2. When it comes to foreign policy, China is much more united than Europe. Europe has the inherited disadvantage of being a bunch of independent states with different voices. China does not have this disadvantage. So it’s a risky play but definitely not something as foolish as the author suggest;
3. The summit itself is much more a bit of symbolic. You can’t expect a few days of talks between a few head of states to resolve a global crisis. A lot of real talks and works are still going on. The cancellation is just a slap on the face. It’s intended much more as a gesture than causing any real damage;
4. The fact that China is willing to slap Europe does highlight the length China is willing to go on the Tibet issue. The message is quite clear: they will make Tibet an issue that’s not worth for you to play about;
5. Comparing China with German Nazi is nonsense. Not to mention China has not shown any kind of aggression anywhere close to Nazi, but also Nazi was in a much stronger position than China is today. China lives on a per capital income that is 1/10 of the west. Anybody who has such basic knowledge about China would understand that it is neither their best interest to be an aggressor, nor that they will have any chance to succeed even if they wanted to be. Only stupid people will believe that the CCP leaders would stupidly think otherwise;
6. Tibet is a rather complicate issue. China’s does not go with Dalai Lama simply because China thinks DL wants too much. China takes its position because it believes while there are all sort of risk involved, it can ultimately win. It doesn’t really have much to do with DL wants independent or not. It’s basically whatever you want, you only get what you can get.
7. Anybody has the right to boycott anybody else. What matters, however, is not whether you have the right or not; What matters is whether your boycott can have any impact. If you do, great. You win. Otherwise you lose.

So it’s all just business.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

bjameswi :
Having heard the Dalai Lama speak on several occasions, and having attended his teachings once, I can attest to having heard him state definitively that he is not advocating the independence of Tibet. He has, in plain English, stated that Tibet's best chance for becoming a modern nation (as opposed to a "backwards" one... that was his word) lies *with* the People's Republic of China. What he has advocated for is a measure of autonomy in order to preserve a unique culture.

I have read comments here likening China's position to that of Lincoln in his work as the Union's President, to keep from losing the southern US states. China's role here is more like the US's in dealing with the American Indian tribes: one of conquest and exploitation. The Dalai Lama has more in common here with Chief Seattle. And he will have about the same effect.

All of us need to recognize exactly what's happening here. China invaded Tibet, and the Tibetan culture has been damaged to the point of being nearly unsalvageable. The invasion, however, has allowed Tibetan Buddhism to be spread to the far reaches of the globe. In a century or so, the Chinese people will look back on what they've done with regret, and they will try to restore what is left of the Tibetan culture. It won't work; it hasn't worked for us Americans, no matter how many monuments we erect.

---------------------------

A century from now, China, the largest Christian Empire the world has ever seen, will make sure that Tibetan Infidels be converted and a Tibetan theme park (even large than Disney) will be built on Lhasa for all to enjoy. No amount of hate-spewing can stop history; the China haters are on the wrong side of history.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

Does anyone know where China is physically holding the alleged $2T in foreign currency reserves? The lack of transparency and the amount of payoffs to government officials or their State Owned Enterprises that occurs with every deal should give people concern.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

chopin224 :
To meitoumeinao:

You really believe all the hogwash you just spewed?
There have been over 74,000 riots in China so far this year. You folks ar eon the verge of some serious bloodshed as long as the current despots reign. Chinese Communism has been successful? Now this is real funny. China is now like Nazi Germany, state controlled Capitalism. Fascists are fascists no matter what the economic system. I still believe we need to boycott all Chinese made goods. it is a right WE have.

---------------------

You apparently have not graduated from McCarthy's era and stuck somewhere between Warsaw and Chicago. Get a life - you spewing hatred will not win you any audidence.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

All of our goals should be for China to be a integral part of the global system adhering to some semblance participatory government. Poking a stick in their eye isn't going to help.

As in everything, China's role in/with the world is much more complicated and with many moving parts. The government and many educated people know their weaknesses. They need a lot of help, but have a lot of pride. If you treat them with respect and talk about issues rather than preaching about ideology much progress occurs. They are very pragmatic, but not too trusting for obvious reasons.

It is very important that everyone understand that a wide gap exists between the elites and the people. 1.4B people, 70M party members, a dozen with absolute power. The elites greatest fear is rioting and another revolution.

chopin224 Author Profile Page:

To meitoumeinao:

You really believe all the hogwash you just spewed?
There have been over 74,000 riots in China so far this year. You folks ar eon the verge of some serious bloodshed as long as the current despots reign. Chinese Communism has been successful? Now this is real funny. China is now like Nazi Germany, state controlled Capitalism. Fascists are fascists no matter what the economic system. I still believe we need to boycott all Chinese made goods. it is a right WE have.

Geja Author Profile Page:

"Kill a chicken to scare the monkey" - Chinese proverb.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

"...it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, ..."

That was exactly wwhat happened in Hawaii (native Hawaii numbers less than 1,000 today).

bjameswi Author Profile Page:

Having heard the Dalai Lama speak on several occasions, and having attended his teachings once, I can attest to having heard him state definitively that he is not advocating the independence of Tibet. He has, in plain English, stated that Tibet's best chance for becoming a modern nation (as opposed to a "backwards" one... that was his word) lies *with* the People's Republic of China. What he has advocated for is a measure of autonomy in order to preserve a unique culture.

I have read comments here likening China's position to that of Lincoln in his work as the Union's President, to keep from losing the southern US states. China's role here is more like the US's in dealing with the American Indian tribes: one of conquest and exploitation. The Dalai Lama has more in common here with Chief Seattle. And he will have about the same effect.

All of us need to recognize exactly what's happening here. China invaded Tibet, and the Tibetan culture has been damaged to the point of being nearly unsalvageable. The invasion, however, has allowed Tibetan Buddhism to be spread to the far reaches of the globe. In a century or so, the Chinese people will look back on what they've done with regret, and they will try to restore what is left of the Tibetan culture. It won't work; it hasn't worked for us Americans, no matter how many monuments we erect.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

dotellen :
WHLIU2001 wrote: "....Just like majority of Americans will get very mad if China supports to separate Hawaii out of the states of the union. ..."

There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union.

Besides, your products are junk! I bought some rope made in China and it has rotted to pieces, I nearly fell off my roof when I grabbed the piece I had left hanging there for support and it broke. "Don't Buy Junk that comes from China!" (Sung to the tune of "Don't Stop thinking about Tomorrow")

Those 'hurt feelings' are actually guilt pangs.

-------------------------------------

You apparently know nothing about the history of this country. Google Hawaii and see yourself. You UAW lazy "worker" on "Job Bank" status.

zshao Author Profile Page:

pomfret is either an idiot or a liar -- i think the latter is true. china postponed the talk, but it's sarkozy who canceled it. see who cares more about their 'face'.
everybody knows that tibet and dalai his holy liar is one of the most sensitive issues to china. western politicians play the card at their very convenience to manipulate china in their wish. only this time sarkozy played it so poorly(he never played well).
china has 140 airbuses to buy by the contract. this is the least wanted goods at this economic recession period. even delaying the deal will save the precious time and cash that is deadly needed in the domestic stimulation plan. what a great excuse that sarkozy granted china to walk away from the deal for a moment.
china does need friends, a lot of friends. but meeting dalai his holy liar is like a slap on the face to china. a friend doesn't do that.

ukangitmynutz Author Profile Page:

Hey China! You skip our summit and we smack you with an import tariff the likes of which god has never seen.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

gorijenna :
I actually agree with one of these columns for once. China's foreign policy is that of a big, fat, whiny baby (or Xiao Huangdi). The only point of disagreement is that...um, China's foreign policy has ALWAYS been that way. This is nothing new!

When are they going to stop pretending that "this hurts the feelings of the Chinese people" is a viable diplomatic tool? It sounds like something a four-year-old would say. Waaaah, poor China. People don't agree with it's government's totalitarian, morally bankrupt, cruel and irrational policies, and poor wittle China is saaad. Poor baby.

--------------------------------------------------

You Farlungong cult members are crying babies.

dotellen Author Profile Page:

WHLIU2001 wrote: "....Just like majority of Americans will get very mad if China supports to separate Hawaii out of the states of the union. ..."

There is a BIG difference between China's invasion of Tibet, it's destruction of all the Tibetan Buddhist religious buildings, followed by massive colonization, and Hawaii's VOLUNTARY admission as a state in the Union.

Besides, your products are junk! I bought some rope made in China and it has rotted to pieces, I nearly fell off my roof when I grabbed the piece I had left hanging there for support and it broke. "Don't Buy Junk that comes from China!" (Sung to the tune of "Don't Stop thinking about Tomorrow")

Those 'hurt feelings' are actually guilt pangs.

kuvasz Author Profile Page:

a 3,000 year old civilisation acting like a 3 year old = china.

if this is the sort of behavior one shows now, imagine what should be expected once China's GNP surpasses the American's.

i would caution the Sino-jingoists, if you don't want the rest of the world to look at you a threat to freedom whenever you open your collective mouths, you might not treat every expression of national individualism as a slight to your manhood.

Doubter1 Author Profile Page:

Buddhist spiritual leader? Dalai Lama? Give me a break! He is as much deviant as Khoemeni of Iran and its dark age theocracy. China should get out toy business; let Indian and Vietnamese do it.

gavin1 Author Profile Page:

Mr. Pomfret, are you playing naive? "meeting a Buddhist spiritual leader"? what you are you smoking? In Chinese eyes, Dalai is more a politician, which represents an enemy group to China. Is that clear?

voter Author Profile Page:

Mr. Pomfret, I was brought up in a buddhist environment and am a buddhist believer. Please do not refer to the Dalai Lama as simply a buddhist spirtual leader. He is also a politician. It is very misleading to many who do not know much about buddhism.

Tibet is a concern of China's national security. China and Chinese are not going to take it lightly. Maybe you should tell the U.S. to take terrorism against the Americans lightly too.

Citizenofthepost-Americanworld Author Profile Page:

In case I be censored once again and not permitted to post, I believe I need say, very briefly… that John Pomfret is quite right: it is not for China to decide with whom it will meet, hold a conversation, and under what conditions.

gorijenna Author Profile Page:

I actually agree with one of these columns for once. China's foreign policy is that of a big, fat, whiny baby (or Xiao Huangdi). The only point of disagreement is that...um, China's foreign policy has ALWAYS been that way. This is nothing new!

When are they going to stop pretending that "this hurts the feelings of the Chinese people" is a viable diplomatic tool? It sounds like something a four-year-old would say. Waaaah, poor China. People don't agree with it's government's totalitarian, morally bankrupt, cruel and irrational policies, and poor wittle China is saaad. Poor baby.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

Rally around the flag nationalism is nothing new. All governments use it to unify the population around a common cause. The issue is that the world has high expectations of China, much as the world has high expectations of the USA. High expectations usually equal low satisfaction, while low expectations usually equal high satisfaction. Something we both share.

gadlaw Author Profile Page:

The fact that China gets itself so completely bent out of shape over Tibet and the Dali Lama shows their complete fear and moral bankruptcy over the subject. The virulent anti-Tibet posters here are symptomatic of China's Jingoistic chest pounding and flag waving at the expense of thought and at the expense of a moral position over Tibet. The fact is, China has no moral position about their subjugation of Tibet and their hatred of a free Taiwan. Their position and bluster is a position of weakness and fear since their own country is and has historically been a tenuous struggle between control and complete anarchy. Taking their cue from the only National Governments which are similar in temperament and makeup they beat the drum of Nationalism and Taiwan the same way Hitler beat the drum of Nationalism and the various made up slights they could scream about to enrage their population. The louder their screaming, the more irrational their behavior the more I see the spittle spewing, enraged face of Hitler screaming about how badly the Germans were being treated and the more I realize how close to the edge those Chinese Eunichs in the Forbidden City are. As usual, the irrational positions of the Chinese on this subject are evidence of their own slipping grasp over their own country, nothing more.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

It is important to also remember the episode when the Olympic torch went through France and the disabled girl in the wheelchair who was carrying it was attacked and thrown to the ground. It was very embarassing for France. That image was played nonstop in China when it happened. The Chinese do not forget those images.

In regards to Mei Guo Ren, the point is that the Chinese respect and like America - a mutual and face saving respect.

Having been there 25 times in the last two years, I have never once had any Chinese person express anything negative to me about America - only the Europeans. When a Chinese person asked where I was from, there response is frequently something like "America, #1" When I got tired of the attention, I spoke German and they usually muttered something negative.

As China is an Emperor-led culture, ie. they respect strength and stability. They also respect and desire the relationship with America. They remember America siding with them - think Flying Tigers. They do not like the European colonial powers, as much, and remember their actions through history books and memorials regarding massacres by European colonial powers.

When anyone links the Dalai Lama and Tibet to other issues, the Chinese regard it as a loss of face, interference in their internal affairs, and a violation of the one-China policy. It is the kiss of death for any kind of true strategic partnership. If these issues are brought up in private, in a gentle way, they respond and move a bit. But, if you try and corner them and embarass them, you are naive and ignorant about both Chinese and Asian thought overall.

dahuanzhou Author Profile Page:


The French president Sarkozy repeatedly hurted the Chinese feelings by meeting with Dalai Lama, Then, the Chinese government canceled the summit. Mr. Pomfret thought that China's foreign policy is not mature.
Dalai Lama is not only the spiritual leader, but also a political figure who seeks actual independence. Sarkozy interfered The Chinese internal affairs by meeting with Dalai Lama. China has good reason not to attend the summit when French as the Chairperson. If Mr. Pomfret's logic is right, What if Chinese leader meet with Yan Colonna or other spiritual leaders who seek independence of Corsica? Then what will be the "mature " policy of French government?

ujml Author Profile Page:

Tibet is no life or death issue to China. China lived quite nicely without Tibet for thousands of years. It might be for the rulers, for who it is highly convenient that its people run around spewing invective at foreigners, rather than ask themselves why they should be governed by the Communists.

What is a lifethreatening problem for China is the ridiculous immaturity of nationalist screamers like those in the comments above. Get your act together folks, develop what is actually good about Chinese culture, bring out the spiritual depth that lies in your daoist traditions and forget the xenophobic hate crap. Else no one is ever going to take China sriously and it will never be a force for good, neither at home nor abroad.

Bjornen Author Profile Page:

steverosephoto:

"Mr. Pomfret is always anti-China, even if he always pretend to be a friend to chinese."

I think Chinese better stop using 'Friends of China' as a label of approvement in their dealings with the outside world. It might have worked with some leftist groups during the sixties and some African dictators might still buy into it but it's really NOT the way
you succeed with public diplomacy today.

jenng Author Profile Page:

Nothing some of these comments to demonstrate the kind of effort and money the CCP invested into its education system.

There is blame to go around in this international financial crisis, but one cannot expect any country to *not* act in its own (perceived) self interest.

Short-sighted as it may be, China has chosen to shut out anyone that dare to contradict its official stance and to wait for the power vacuum that would follow the death of Dalai Lama. And China can afford to wait with its billions (or is it trillion?) of foreign currency reserves.

However, China is hardly without its weaknesses: the demographic bomb, the simmering internal tension, the widening gap between poor and the rich, coast and interior, and the need to maintain at least an 8% GDP growth a year all make it projected path to outshine the US a less than sure bet.

The unipolar moment may be gone, but America's decline (and fate to join the Roman Empire) is hardly set in cement. Can we not wait to write 21st century until at least 2028?

P.S. “洋鬼子”? 大爷,今年是2008,不是1908!

meitoumeinao Author Profile Page:

I don't believe that westerners hate Chinese people, they just don't like us. The reason is silly: it's ideology-driven.

For years, the westerners hold beliefs that their systems are the models to follow, and that the evil communist system must fail. It didn’t happen, not for China. This fact drives western folks mad. So we often see the incredible scene that some westerners cannot resist cheering up when something bad happened in China, you are hoping that China will eventually broken down, its people will suffer, then you can come to rescue us, like a God.

I don’t blame you, rather I think you are pathetic. Let me tell you a truth, China will not crack, deal with that. So while your leaders can talk to anyone you want, our leaders can stop talking to anyone we don’t like. No big deal.

haereticus Author Profile Page:

操你妈的老B,你妈逼的一帮鬼佬怎么不去死啊~

f*** all the yankee, what the f***ing hell are you?

andio76 Author Profile Page:

It illustrates the fact that China's foreign policy, its strategy and its world view are anything but mature......

WOW..and now you see why China won't be the worlds leading superpower by 2025...

Jeff_from_MD Author Profile Page:

Pomfret, what's also immature is disrespecting the culture and values of other countries needlessly. I have always admired the Dalai Lama with awe, but I also respect the values of social stability and domestic cooperation that gives China an edge over our foreign policy ambitions in terms of our sick Iraq nation-building without regard for pre-existing protective rule of law, simply because the top officials were terrible people.

Entertaining the Dalai Lama is as symbolically stupid as China's response was. Believe it or not, China's leaders do speak for their people, while France's actions do not, in terms of the Dalai Lama.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@FUNINTHESUN1,

Well this time China invested mostly in US government Treasury bonds. Unless the USD tanks, or US government go broke, these things are not going to lose value the same rate as mortgage backed securities the major US and European banks bought. The same reason those major financial companies are in trouble, not the chinese government.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@ZZZHOU,

The word America or USA in chinese is translated based on the pronunciation, not the meaning. The same reason for Deutschland to be called De-Guo, or De-Yi-Zhi, does not really mean "Ethical country". Or the same for England, to be called Ying-Guo, or Ying-Ji-Li, does not mean anything of "Handsome Lucky country".

funinthesun1 Author Profile Page:

I remember the 80's when Japan was the sourse of unneeded goods and they were king. As they bought up overpriced US assets there was panic. When the market fell all the real estate was brought by other at a discount just like all the junk morgages china holds. Good luck with those.
China will have to grow up let this crap go. It has nothing to do with bussiness and they have the most to lose. The poor nations are lined up to sell crap at the lowest cost.

zzzhou Author Profile Page:

VOLPE1, you are mistaken. Meiguo does still mean Beautiful Country. Only three other countries have Chinese names that're positively complimentary. Even more uniquely, America's full name in Chinese means Beautiful-Sharp-Resolute; there's no other country name like this. Someone was definitely sucking up to the US when they were translating country names for the emperor.

These words are strong and coherent enough that they don't lose their meaning when they are used together in a new phrase-word. Weaker and conflicting words like those slapped together to name Russia do lose their discrete meanings once they form a single new phrase-word.

ShawnShang Author Profile Page:

John, I recommend Hu to meet Bin Laden and honor him a citizenship of China, would Europe and American welcome that and give a appluad?

I'm going to dump Chanel 5 to my toilet until they remove the Sharcozy formulation inside!

Aprogressiveindependent Author Profile Page:

Until this post by John Pomfret, despite what some people have said, I did not believe he was anti-China in his outlook. However, this column more importantly leaves out certain facts about this subject.

I read a far more balanced article about this topic I think, at "The New York Times" website. The Chinese government postponed the summit alluded to in Pomfret's column. They did not cancel the meeting. Their actions were, as was stated above, to protest the French president meeting with the Dali Lama. The Chinese singled out the French because France currently has the lead role in some political body of European Union, a council or the Parliament.

The article I read said the Chinese would attend the summit when another country next year has the lead role in the EU entity. The Chinese action is therefore quite measured and hardly the "immature" action described by Pomfret.

One of the Chinese leaders attended the recent G-20 summit in the United States. China hosted a group of European and Asian leaders in late October to discuss the global economic crises. At both meetings, according to western news reports, the Chinese leaders, along with leaders of other countries participating, emphasized the importance of cooperation among nations in effectively dealing with current global economic difficulties.

Whether Pomfret is anti-China or not, he should at least provide the full facts and background of any subject being offered for discussion.

charlie1111 Author Profile Page:

Dalai lama used terror warfare before the 1970s. Here is some US money that supported him in 1964:

"The cost of the Tibetan Program for FY 1964 can be summarized in approximate figures as follows:

a. Support of 2100 Tibetan guerrillas based in Nepal--$ 500,000

b. Subsidy to the Dalai Lama--$ 180,000

c. [1 line of source text not declassified] (equipment, transportation, installation, and operator training costs)--$ 225,000

d. Expenses of covert training site in Colorado--$ 400,000

e. Tibet Houses in New York, Geneva, and [less than 1 line of source text not declassified] ( 1/2 year )--$ 75,000

f. Black air transportation of Tibetan trainees from Colorado to India--$ 185,000

g. Miscellaneous (operating expenses of [less than 1 line of source text not declassified] equipment and supplies to reconnaissance teams, caching program, air resupply--not overflights, preparation stages for agent network in Tibet, agent salaries, etc.)--$ 125,000

h. Educational program for 20 selected junior Tibetan officers-- $ 45,000

Total--$ 1,735,000

4. Coordination--This Tibetan operational program has been coordinated with the Department of State for a number of years. Specific operational activity has been coordinated with the Department of Defense and the [less than 1 line of source text not declassified] as necessary.

5. Recommendations--Barring sudden developments inside Communist China and Tibet, expenses for this long-range, politically-oriented Tibet program are not expected to exceed this amount in the foreseeable future. In fact, there are a number of probable economics, [1-1/2 lines of source text not declassified] for example. Nonetheless, this program will continue to require fairly large expenditures over a long period of time to keep the possibility of a non-Communist government alive to the Tibetan people. We recommend continuance of this program."

Only after the normalization of Sino-US relations in mid 1970s did Dalai stop this guerrilla warfare. But he never stopped instigating hatred toward Chinese people by the foreigners. The March riots was a result of his action.

France arrested Spanish separatists but greet this fake monk with romantic reception. China is right to give Sarko the finger.

bopo Author Profile Page:

volpe1 is being barking ridiculous, I'm sorry, BARKING RIDICULOUS, in comparing Dalai Lama to Osama.

He should post whatever stupid ideas he has in Chinese, where less-discerning blind-with-nationalism readers might appreciate it, the same way they appreciate the Chinese government.

(Pls replace the "bar" in barking with "fuc" where applicable)

roadman Author Profile Page:

Looking at this from the French side: if this is the intended result, then congratulations! You've got what you wished for; if this is not the intended result, then you have the wrong advisors! Don't blame this on the Chinese side, because just about all Chinese understand their government's reaction.

jay_casey Author Profile Page:

This article says it like it needs to be said. Pmfret is right, China often cuts off its nose to spite its face. The reason China punishes France as if it were a child is because Beijing thinks France is in weak enough position to be bullied. Beijing knows that it can't control Washington so they pick on the waffling Europeans that have set themselves up to be bullied.

toosimple Author Profile Page:

"Too simple, sometimes naive".

volpe1 Author Profile Page:

You quite obviously haven't spent much time in china. Or - if you have you have had your head in the sand. Honestly I would expect more from the Washington Post.

Firstly, a simple corrections:

Mei Guo Ren means American, not America (Mei Guo). Just because Mei means 'Beautiful' does not mean that Mei Guo means (Beautiful Country). Just like Ni Hao doesn't mean 'You Good' it means 'Hello'. Americans just tell themselves in order to stroke their egos. When you combine multiple characters together in chinese they form NEW words. That are usually completely unrelated to their components.

Secondly the Dalai Lama is not just a Buddhist Spiritual Leader, to simplify his role as such simply outlines your ignorance. He a person claiming to be the leader of Tibet. He (the Dalai Lama) has inspired many tibetans to do aweful things to the Han (majority ethnic group) chinese in (and outside of tibet).
If he were to do the same to the US, he would be labeled a terrorist and have a bounty put on his head. But as others have pointed out, it suits the west to have some sort of leverage (however false) over china.

To have western leaders meet with the Dalai Lama before a major summit, is some what equivalent to a world leader meeting with Osama Bin Laden before a meeting with the U.S president.

Honestly, when will the Western media outlets stop producing such biased dribble? I realise you are a U.S news reporter, but aren't you meant to at least try to be neutral, and just report the facts?

China canceled the summit for good reason. Why haven't you reported anything about what sort of stupidity the French administration is displaying in meeting with useless people (the dalai lama) who do nothing but offend ACTUAL world leaders.
I would be asking the question: Why does France not want china at the summit?

What's worse, is you write this joke of an article, and do not respond to the people challenging the complete flaws in your report. Have some guts!

by78 Author Profile Page:

The mature way of dealing with the global economic crisis is for the Europeans to abandon, for now at least, its unrealistic, ideal-driven policy of brokering an acceptable outcome on the Tibet issue. The house is on fire, and can't we just ignore Tibet for now and concentrate on dousing the fire? Let us no forget that every country (including the UK) now recognizes Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. If the Chinese regard the Dalai Lama as a separatist, then it should be the end of the argument. All this monkey business about facilitating a dialogue between the Chinese and the Dalai Lama may be entertaining and amusing, but it won't change the fact that the Chinese will never grant the Dalai Lama the concessions he is seeking. We should be pragmatic and drop this matter from our foreign policy agenda entirely. Countries don't normally talk to each other if the parties try to undermine each other's territorial integrity. What do you think the Europeans would do if China supported the Basque Separatist movement, the Northern Ireland secessionists, the Flemish Independence movement, etc.? What do you think the U.S. would do if China tried to compromise its territorial integrity by openly supplying arms and money to the Alaskan Independence Party and the Hawaiian Independence Movement? In the hierarchy of national needs, territorial integrity (or if you prefer, keeping the land already grabbed) is always the top priority, trumping any other concern. Why do you think the Chinese ought to act differently in this case? I think it is the Europeans who need to get their act together on this one.

by78 Author Profile Page:

The mature way of dealing with the global economic crisis is for the Europeans to abandon, for now at least, its unrealistic, ideal-driven policy of brokering an acceptable outcome on the Tibet issue. The house is on fire, and can't we just ignore Tibet for now and concentrate on dousing the fire? Let us no forget that every country (including the UK) now recognizes Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. If the Chinese regard the Dalai Lama as a separatist, then it should be the end of the argument. All this monkey business about facilitating a dialogue between the Chinese and the Dalai Lama may be entertaining and amusing, but it won't change the fact that the Chinese will never grant the Dalai Lama the concessions he is seeking. We should be pragmatic and drop this matter from our foreign policy agenda entirely. Countries don't normally talk to each other if each party tries to undermine each other's territorial integrity. What do you think the Europeans would do if China supported the Basque Separatist movement, the Northern Ireland secessionists, the Flemish Independence movement, etc.? What do you think the U.S. would do if China tried to compromise its territorial integrity by openly supplying arms and money to the Alaskan Independence Party and the Hawaiian Independence Movement? In the hierarchy of national needs, territorial integrity (or if you prefer, keeping the land already grabbed) is always the top priority, trumping any other concern. Why do you think the Chinese ought to act differently in this case? I think it is the Europeans who need to get their act together on this one.

Benkgee Author Profile Page:

China always place unity before economy or trade. Without unity, China may not function as a nation. China will not talk to anyone who appears to undermind its unity.

avenuex Author Profile Page:

Why is China scared of The Dalai Lama? How is the Dalai Lama a national threat to the Chinese government. Leaders of the free world have the right to meet a respected leader like the Dalai Lama.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

Further, I would speculate that the real driver behind China Tibet policy - one China - is their concern about losing the XinJiang province and its oil reserves. It also happens to be the main Islamic province. Plus, obviously Taiwan influences the Tibet discussion.

If anyone has gone to Beijing and goes to the historical tombs outside of the city you will see buildings built 600 years ago to honor the Dalai Lama. He and Tibet were part of greater China then which gives credence to many of the Chinese arguments.

whliu2001 Author Profile Page:

The political leaders, news media and journalists and public of the Western countries need to understand that the Chinese government's position on Tibet is supported by the majority of the Chinese people inside China and living abroad. Just like majority of Americans will get very mad if China supports to separate Hawaii out of the states of the union.

Economic crisis in the US? That is US's problem. The Chinese government will just do enough to protect its own economy.

Do I expect that you pay my hotel room stay if I am going to fool around with your wife in that hotel room.

Jianhan Author Profile Page:

"No surprise to me. Mr. Pomfret is always anti-China"

He just wants to keep his job. Even aliens know.

joewashington1 Author Profile Page:

You can't maintain competitive advantage by being the world's factory floor. Cheap labor gets you nowhere. Major efforts are underway in SE Asian countries to directly compete on labor cost with China. That industry is dead for them in five years. Further, if there really is $2 trillion and not $2 trillion worth of mortgage backed securities, or Fannie, Freddie and AIG stock, I would be very surprised.

China will never be a superpower, but most likely fragment apart. Main issues - a rural to urban migration of 500 million illiterate peasants, environment holocaust, no social security system, and no heathcare system amongst others. Those will cost significantly more than whatever amount of foreign reserves really remains. The Chinese are so concerned about face that they are nearly paralyzed. Having been involved in large multi billion dollar projects there for several years it is rife with corruption across the government where the one with the best guangxi wins. Government officials all have offshore accounts in BVI, Barbados or the Caymans as well as the business people. All the firms dole out stock through anonymous corporations to SOEs and government officials to curry favor. More like a dictatorship trying to hold onto their cash and their lives trying to hold off the inevitable revolution.

It's a tremendous shame as the Chinese people are friendly and like Americans. There name for us is meiguoren (beautiful country.) It's a looming tragedy that can only be solved through them losing face, something they will resist to the end even if it means their end.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

@WPOSHU:

No surprise to me. Mr. Pomfret is always anti-China, even if he always pretend to be a friend to chinese. You can easily get that impression from reading his past articles. Mr. Pomfret's is so out of touch that he still think it is in the 1980's and China is begging US for business.

myday1984 Author Profile Page:

"The reality is that China just screwed this one up." when i read this statment i can't stop myself from laughing. i guess the writer had failed his history classes. ask Lincoln why he fought the South for the unity of the nation. for sure the answer was not because he was seeking great joy from killing, but to hold unity of the country as he see in the pass, and the foreseeable future generations. and today Lincoln became one of the most prominent president in United States. Why? for most of his first term, the country was at war, and unforfunately, he was assassinated in the second term. it was not because of economy expansion that made him famous, it was because he hold the United States as we see it is today. so, ask any politicians who can bear the outsiders to screw his country up.

steverosephoto Author Profile Page:

China finally realizes she can do business with other countries without costing an arm or a leg, which I am referring to sacrificing her sovereignty and territorial integrity.

When can EU realize she can no longer blackmail China using Dalai Lama?

sasquatchbigfoot Author Profile Page:

Not that China's temper tantrum matters. The global economy will spiral down the cosmic toilet regardless of what the Chinese do. The bubble deflation is bigger than any one country, and is so fluid that without coordination, the efforts of some countries to counter the deflation will push the bubble into other countries' economies. China may hold a couple of trillion US dollars, but the monetary value of those dollars will decline as the US standard of living declines.

We greet the Middle Kingdom's arrival to the credit bubble deflation with a time-honored greeting from the USMC: "Welcome to the Suck."

hegar52 Author Profile Page:

Sarkozy shot himself on his own foot. This is the second time he played the Tibetan card with China in this year. The first one before the Olympic games already angered the Chinese. He should understand he is only the president of France, not the emperor of EU. EU is a super power, but France not.

Dalai Lama is not only a Buddhist monk, but also the head of the Tibetan government in exile, who dreams about regain his own theocracy state again. It's funny that democracies are supporting a theocracy against a fake communism country.

Jianhan Author Profile Page:

Let Dalai Lama help europe solve the crisis. I'm sure his pray will be much more welcome by the arrogant and hypocritical europeans than any form of help from China.

Tibet is the only thing left for those opportunist politicians to snub and pressure China for concessions now that Taiwan is becoming closer and closer to China.

But sorry, here is a China in 2008, not 1998, 1988 or 1978, and don't fool/try to convince yourselves to think that China needs Europe as mush as Europe needs China. We don't really need you.

While without Made in Europe, our economy stalls, but only temporarily before the domestic demands pick up. Without Made in China, your Economy collapses.

We don't need others to consume our products, we will learn to do that ourselves.

You need us to manufacture, you rely on us the cheap labour who will love to work 60 hours a week to earn a not wealthy but decent life for the family, and you desperately want us to buy your debts and fill your pension holes.

Using Tibet as a leverage to controll China will only hit back in your only face.

bm123 Author Profile Page:

For a journalist who actually speaks Chinese and spent quite some time in China, you are a disappointment.

yoyo2 Author Profile Page:

come on! Sarkozy hasn't met with Dalai yet.

pwlews Author Profile Page:

China didn't screw this one up. Sarkozy screwed this one up. He's a two face, he's keep saying China is a strategic partner then why is he going to meet with Dalai. If France is a place respect human right then why did Sarkozy allow protester to attack a handicap holding a Olympic Torch in France. Dalai is a rebel Monk, he's nothing but a evil Monk. he talks one thing and does another thing. If he cares so much about human rights, then I don't see him going around the third world country to help out the poor or complain to the UN about the killing and the torturing in other part of the world such as middle east/guantanamo bay camp.

sxie2004 Author Profile Page:

the Real question is, why Sarkozy want to do this? As if he really want to solve the economic problem, but why he still want to upset Chinese?
Make no mistake, Tibet issue is a life and death issue for China, but a stupid playing dollcard for westerners. Isn't it the economy crisis make playing a card to against now very naive and stupid?

attacking Chinese 3-year-old, then the US is probably a new born, who manage to damage the global economy. Sarkozy?

infoshop Author Profile Page:

Oh, really?

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