Pomfret's China

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The Olympic Battle to Watch

So the Olympics in Beijing are not just a battle between athletes but a battle between systems, huh?

So it's not just shot-putters and crew jocks, bicyclists and divers, sprinters and ping pong paddlers. It's democratic capitalism (US) vs. authoritarian capitalism (THEM).
It's war by any other means, huh?

For those of you who buy into this "struggle of the titans" story line, the muscle-bound American Gladiators vs. the wily Fu Manchu, please, for a moment, take the new-Cold-War bong off your mugs and listen up.

Yeah, I know it's a really cool story line. A new enemy. A big one. Kinda like the Soviets only with a racial element thrown in as well. How titillating. Moscow 1980 all over again, except this time we showed up. It's also cool because it makes the stakes at Beijing's Olympics so much higher, so much more significant. I mean, if they were just the Summer Games (think Sydney or Athens), heck, no big drama there. But now that these Games are being framed as a battle of existential proportions, well, I guess I - and the rest of the world - really have to pay attention. A Beijing victory would then be a sign of our inevitable fall, "Clash of Civilizations"-- like, into the dustbin of history. PricewaterhouseCoopers has predicted a PRC win. Of course, this couldn't be related to PWC's substantial business interests in China. No, of course not.

But the story line is wrong.

First, look around the world and tell me where China's model - a one-party state with a fast-growing, privatizing economy - is being held up as a goal? Who is looking to China as a shining city on a hill? Zimbabwe? China just turfed Pres. Mugabe out of Beijing. Sudan? Burma? North Korea? Venezuela? Cuba??? Bad actors, for sure, but together or separately do any of these tinpot republics amount to an existential challenge to Western liberal democracy? Do they? Yes, Pyongyang has nukes and is run by a nut case. Zimbabwe's regime specializes in immiserating its people. Burma in beating its. Sudan in killing its. But, moon people, these guys ain't the East Bloc or the Warsaw Pact. They just ain't.

Perhaps the only "bloc" that could be formed that would amount to much of a challenge to the West would be some type of real strategic partnership between China and Russia. And, yes, China's model is no doubt attractive to Putin and his ilk. I mean, compared to Russia, China's economic success has been stellar. But China and Russia as a team? C'mon. They tried that in the 1950s and it failed. Too much historic distrust. Too much downright mutual racism. Same holds even truer for India. Not much systemic convergence there.

Second, I have a hard time worrying about a system that revokes visas from people like Joey Cheek. I mean, the dude is really fast on skates and cares about Darfur, but does he really constitute a threat to China's stability? Really. I mean, if a system is going to challenge ours, a basic prerequisite is self-confidence. But China is not self-confident. Lord knows, it wants to be, but it's not.

Finally, what exactly is this Chinese model that we're supposedly battling against? In one corner, we're told, we've got authoritarian capitalism - a mix of free-market elements of an economic system, significant state control of strategic industries (think telecoms, energy, steel), all wrapped up in a one-party state. In another corner they're us. (Two cheers for democracy because it doesn't deserve three...)

The problem with this scenario, however, is that it assumes China's system is stable. And if ever there was a system in serious flux, it's China's. Despite its 5,000 years of continuous cultural history, China at this moment is a very, very young country. It's system isn't fixed, like (for better or worse) ours is. China's social, economic and political systems are evolving -- toward exactly what, nobody really knows. But they are changing. And rapidly. Look for hints of that at the Beijing Games. Not for the big battle between US and THEM.

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Comments (66)


There's something people tend to overlook when talking about China: its population is bigger than the US and EU combined, and in the information and industrial age, people, the productive force rather than land resources are the primary indicator of a country's potential, China isn't finished yet, not by a long shot, sure, when it reaches western level of development it too will stagnate, but that indicator is measured in per-capita development and China is still a long, long way from getting there.

I find the western fascination with exporting their ideologies amusing, and why exactly does a country need to get everyone else to believe in their ideals to be a global power? It seems western culture is still not finished with their 15th century spreading of Christianity mindset. Live and let live, that's China's model, and its pretty popular last time I checked.

As for political structure, you better hope China's political development goes smoothly because in the globalized world, instability in China will have repercussions around the world, and the longer we wait, the more the rest of the world has to lose compared to China.

Mr. Pomfret is angry and is in denial, but he doesn't want to admit it, its ok, we get your underlying message: China might look big today, but its not, really, because of A, B, and C, really, I'm sure of it, it must be true, it need to be true because I really really hope its true.


MIDORI, Gunma -- A local fireworks manufacturer was forced to abandone plans to dispatch two pyrotechnics experts for firework displays during Beijing Olympics opening and closing ceremonies, sources close to the company said.

Tamaya Kitahara Fireworks Co., headquartered in Midori, was told by Chinese officials that a team of Chinese pyrotechnicians will handle the work without the help of foreign workers.

Tamaya had intended to dispatch two staff to China to handle three of the 12 fireworks launch sites for the Games' closing ceremony. It was also expected to be in charge of the electrical wiring for the fireworks at Friday's opening ceremony.


Battle of the Titans:

Washington Post kowtows to Chinese Communists...
My posts here were deleted by the Washington Post.
I criticized the GCD, or Chinese Communist Party, for being comprised of insecure, murderous thugs.
Is the Washington Post so afraid of losing access in China that free speech suffers?
Shame on the Washington Post.


Pomfrets blog is full with chinese spamer and propaganda. Why does it not surprise me?

Flame on:

The XXIX Olympiad has begun!


You see how sexy and handsome your American athletes in our QiPao style dress?

now, That's culture, okay!



John, you have many Chinese poets reading you,

good job!

but you need to get alliance from some Misty poets,
please hire them to help you from US:)

American Observer:


China's most famous modern writer, Lu Xun, said that Chinese history is 'four thousand years of cannibalism.' And of course, the late president of the People's Republic of China, Zhao Ziyang, said that forty-eight to fifty-two million Chinese died of hunger during the Great Leap Forward. Jasper Becket's famous book 'Hungry Ghosts,' showed that most of the survivors stayed alive by eating other Chinese, usually their own children. Obviously, Lu Xun was right.

Cannibalism has always been part of Chinese civilization. However, there are other horrors which need to be investigated at deeper length. For instance, 'China Daily,' the English-language newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party, used to claim that China had a hundred thousand eunuchs in the Forbidden City at the time of the fall of the Ching dynasty. Whether the number is strictly correct or not, castration has also always been an important part of Chinese civilization.

I am sure that everyone here recognizes the name of Zheng He. Zheng He was the admiral of China's fleets and is usually considered a great hero. And in fact, his childhood can teach us a great deal about China's heritage. As we all know, Zheng He was born in a Moslem nation to the west of China, but Chinese invaders attacked his country, killed his parents, and kidnapped Zheng He; and then they castrated Zheng He when he was only ten years old. According to the BBC website, and I quote:

"Zheng He was born in the poor, mountainous Chinese province of Yunnan in 1372, just as Genghis Khan's Mongols were being overthrown by a new, home-grown dynasty, the Ming.

His family were Muslims from Central Asia who had fought for the Mongols. When Ming armies came looking for rebels, they captured the 10-year-old boy and, as was the custom with young male prisoners, castrated him.

"He was ashamed of being a eunuch," said Professor Liu Ying Sheng of Nanjing University, adding there was little information about this aspect of Zheng He's life. "


We seem to have many 'experts' on Chinese history here. Will any of these experts tell us how many children the Chinese captured in other countries and forced to become slaves? Will any of these experts then tell us how many children the Chinese castrated against their will? It would be great to get a number for this.


Oops, the translation by Visitor wasn't accurate, and I missed out two lines when I put up the poem. Below is what I intended and with my own translation (casual, since my English is secondary).

赠 Pomfret 先生

战争示威最够 cool

P. S.

赠 Pomfret 先生
For Mr. Pomfret

A loafer from the west across the ocean arrived the middle kingdom
Though never mastered its language but at least got a woman (with respect, love is love)
Yet instead of helping the in-laws, he worked on splitting it
Those splitted the "Chinese watermelon" were indeed his fathers
Only now Democracy and Freedom are so Sexy
战争示威最够 cool
while wars and protests are so Cool
The shining lies reach higher than the clouds
The blood debts have accomulated thicker than the earth
With what, they deserve a "clash of civilizations"?
All (culture) they have is Madonna and jeans
When a death will come from the east, their twin towers fall (with respect, only describing a historic event here)
Their (US) dark forces set off in all directions in waves of blood
Even before the blood dries, their tongues are put to action as well
Spitting at the city that hosts the Olympics
If a sick person does not seek help from a doctor
Can he be healed by cursing others?
The Roman Empire is hopeless with a resurrection in its fatigue
The (new) Roman empire like the setting sun can hardly take care of itself
So much harm they have done to others and so little blessing given
Their wrongs will pass down to later generations and there will be hardly a sympathetic place for them

P. S.
I would like to advice him to learn more of her language from his wife
And try not to show off to those who are native to it



$100 million spent by China for these stupid Olympic games.

Yet the "Communist" party is so incompetent it does not even provide basic socialist services like health care, housing or food for it's people any more.

$100 million spent on lame games while local government bureaucrats seize land and homes from peasants.

$100 million spent on stupid games while Chinese in rural areas sleep outside and go without food or health care.

$100 million spent on dumb games while the GCD tortures political prisoners.

Shameless, shameless China.


Please, gentlemen.

To Anonymous, I would like to say that the present Bush Administration is NOT the United States, but a group of political extremists who have taken control of our government. The Chinese may have some understanding of that. We presently both suffer under Police State governments. Give us time to self-correct. You've had three-to-five thousand years, and you're not perfect yet, either.

Our economies and futures are intertwined - let's stop quarreling and start working together to solve the problems we all face as global humanity.

Citizen of the post-American world:

"I have a hard time worrying about a system that..."

One could not have hoped for a more amusing statement than the above, coming from John Pomfret!

It is to be legitimately wondered how anybody can worry so much about something, while claiming to have such "a hard time worrying about" it!...

How can John Pomfret ever hope to convince anybody, writing everything he writes on "his" China, unless he manages to convince himself of what he writes first?

For him to keep on worrying, the more he writes about "his" China, is obviously not his greatest achievement so far.

Those who worry not are currently in Beijing, competing and enjoying themselves at the great 2008 Olympics", both a turning point and a milestone in today's world.








This Wapo post is'nt by Pomfret.

Who the heck is Spinnovative?


Gabriel Angelous:

The cowardly Anonymous said:

"Heroic Chinese are against all bad governments;"

There are no free heroic Chinese. The ones that were heroic were massacred at Tienanmen Square under order from those blasphemous heathens in the Chinese Communist Party, and the remaining few are rotting in prisons. Anyone that grows a spine and protests against the CCP are either purged or sent to a gulag. And if that was not enough brutality to satiate the CCP's blood lust, they engage in campaigns to purge Tibet and East Turkestan of their natives.


Many of those elites in Tienanmen Square Event are doing business in China,traveling freely and busying for their business.

A few months ago, when China detained a few East Turkestan terrorists wanting to bomb a plane, Western experts said Chinese government exaggerate. Two weeks ago, when the East Turkestan terrorists bombed two bus killing dozens of citizen in Yuanan,Western experts said Chinese government exaggerate. A week ago,East Turkestan terrorists bombed and killed dozens of police,Western experts said Chinese government exaggerate....

Are the Western experts nut cases? What the hell are they talking? Do you guys want to instruct Chinese? Your guys lost the merit,in history or today.


For American Observer:

--"How about a study of how the Chinese exterminated the Li, the Yue, and the Miao?"

It is unbelievable you mention even Li,Yue,and Miao, who in China are angry at your guy's nonsense about Tibet,not to mention your this absurdity of talking them in this way. In history, Han conquered and was conquered by many ethnic groups like Mongol,Manchu,to name a few.But most of them gravitated to Han culture and agricultural technology.So they mingled together and it is really hard to tell who force who together.

Countries with similar history are plenty in this world. India,Russia...or Scotland&England (? I have to write this way to cater you,LOL).Why do you just pick China?

Many Chinese oversea are not Han.If you want somebody of them to ridicule you,you could have a good shot.

--"How about a case study of how the Chinese abolished their cultures and filled their land with Chinese settlers? "

"Dominant culture" has its appealing.Ethnic groups filled land each other and you have to figure out the question of "what comes the first" between egg and chicken.You use of "Chinese" also is completely confusing here.

--"How about a case study of how the Chinese brought the Great Leap Forward to Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous prefecture, starving the people until they had to eat their own children to survive? "

All Chinese suffered from the Great Leap Forward,regardless Han or ethnic groups. If you can make a regression analysis to demonstrate that the t-value of those ethnic groups' death is much more significant than Han,you win.LOL.

--" Then, please give us a case study of how China's Red Guards attacked Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture and forced the teenagers there to beat their mothers and fathers to death. "

So who're those "Red Guards"? Are they all Han? Are those tragedy only driven against ethnic groups? So what is the point you want to make? That government then wasn't carrying out a campaign against particular group of people. It has long been openly admitted by the following Chinese government that those chaotic time prove wrong and so they made reform.

You talked a lot of history to justify your judgment for today's China,while you could never use the history of Westerner for today's Western countries.If you talked Mao ZeDong's influence to today's Chinese, majority of Chinese could drop to the floor,laughing to death immediately (little exaggeration,sorry).

To 青蛙:

Are you going to claim that you find a GCD apologist again and threat to find out my IP from FBI? People come here to exchange their point view,though sometimes discussion fares poignantly.

I am not a big fan of either GCD or American politicians.But if you insist on slapping people in different view with your preconception,so we are,so what? Personal attack does not make your argument look no ugly.LOL.


China calls for dialogue on human rights

"Aug. 7 (Xinhua) -- China and the United States should conduct dialogues and exchanges based on equal-footing and mutual respect to solve their disputes on human rights and religious issues, said the Foreign Ministry."


Gabriel Angelous:

The cowardly Anonymous said:

"Heroic Chinese are against all bad governments;"

There are no free heroic Chinese. The ones that were heroic were massacred at Tienanmen Square under order from those blasphemous heathens in the Chinese Communist Party, and the remaining few are rotting in prisons. Anyone that grows a spine and protests against the CCP are either purged or sent to a gulag. And if that was not enough brutality to satiate the CCP's blood lust, they engage in campaigns to purge Tibet and East Turkestan of their natives.

Countdown begins!:

IOC chief Rogge said the Olympics will allow the world to learn more about each other.

"I believe that the spotlight put by the Olympic Games on China will help both the world to understand China better and maybe for China to understand the world better," he said. "Is it going to be today? I don't know. Is it going to be at the moment of the closing ceremony? I think that this is something that will definitely extend beyond the closing of the games on the 24th of August."




Heroic Chinese are against all bad governments;
When they are in China, they protest against Communist Party;
When they are in US, they post against left-wings, right-wings, and chicken-wings.

One world one drink!


Freedom and Human Rights!

Why don't these American preach to those Chinese that they killed about Freedom and Human Rights!

Why don't they tell our Qing government about freedom and human rights!

Qing government did not welcome those people, but you know what, they broke in.

I am sure those Americans were hiding behind the flag of Christianity, Freedom and human rights, when they marched in with their guns and ships, and broke China into parts to colonize; when some Chinese protested for their rights, and religion rights, and freedom and land, what American did, their professional job of their tradition: rape, kill, loot, but on Sunday they take a rest.

And I am sure there were many different ethnic Chinese were killed by American, included Tibetan and Manchurian too.

Good jobs!

Keep Bashing! The world cannot continue without American shows!


In the USA we citizens proudly condemn our corrupt officials, and admit our past mistakes in public because we know that only when one studies failures of the past can such failure be avoided in the future.

The people posting here favorably about China's government seem to deny thier governments failures - and thus will learn nothing.

It is no secret that local communist party officials are responsible for every school that fell in the horrible earthquake. Those officials took bribes to look the other way as shoddy construction was done in every city in which the tragedy struck...

...Yet the heroic Chinese citizens who lost their children are forbidden to mourn their loss and demand answers in public.

Why do the angry people posting in defense of china always seem naieve, hypocritical, and blind to their government's failures?

Perhaps they are in the employ of the chinese government?


The Eight-Nation Alliance (simplified Chinese: 八国联军; traditional Chinese: 八國聯軍; pinyin: bāgúo liánjūn) was an alliance of 8 nations (Austria-Hungary, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States) which put down the 'Boxer Rebellion' in China in 1900. The troops looted the capital and thousands of citizens died during the campaign.

At the end of the campaign, the imperial government was forced to sign the unequal Boxer Protocol of 1901.

100 years ago, American were one of the Eight-Nation colonizers killing Chinese local protests in Beijing.

Now, after 108 years, again Americans are coming, to Beijing for a program of Bashing China.

Wow! What a grandpa generation!
Wow! What a grand children seed!
Like father like son!

I wonder when Americans would leave China alone, and crawl back from Middle East, and other places of the world;)

Before American and western robbers arrived in China, Chinese were fine; but once they entered, hell!

Look at Africa, and Middle East, and South America, when would these western peoples would stop?


To 青蛙,

You should not judge people by race, only by their culture.

Da Shan is a Chinese, even though he is white.
Many Chinese descendant in US, are Americans, 100%; because they are programmed by US, they serve in Iraq war also.
Faith defines a person, not their color and race.

For example:
John is a American, his wife used to be Chinese before she married to the American jerk, now after years pillow study, she is an American now.

If I somehow brawl with him, who you think his wife would stand for? Of course her husband, not me, ok.


Deighton's comments during a presentation by London to the International Olympic Committee session in Beijing came as The Daily Telegraph learnt that 2012 Olympic organisers had secretly agreed to reduce the size of the athletes' village by a further 500 apartments to stem rising costs.

The village has already been scaled back by a third from the 4,200 flats originally planned due to problems in raising private finance for the £1 billion project.

With 130 officials from London in Beijing as observers, Deighton is determined to learn crucial lessons from the Chinese organisers. But he concedes that the sheer scale of the Beijing Games will make them an impossible act to follow.

"These Games are going to be spectacular and I say that with some trepidation because they are going to be setting high standards for the future," Deighton told IOC members.

He later added: "I want our team to get a sense of the scale and intensity, I want our team to have had battle experience. I don't want London 2012 to be the first time they stick their head up out of the trench, they see 10,000 people charging at them and they want to run away. I want them to have experienced it so they are not intimidated by it.

"London will be very different, and it may well set the standard for future Games because otherwise the IOC may find the field of candidates that can stage the Games narrowing.

"If we can manage a Games that is manageable in terms of finance, planning and operations then I think we really will have achieved something."

Athletes arriving in Beijing for tomorrow's opening ceremony have been full of praise for the facilities, especially the village. But London's own village plans are already being scaled back due to a £300 million gap in funding.

Deighton said the slump in property values had led to a rethink on the scale of the project, explaining that the village would now be built for athletes first and the resale as flats after the Games second.

A decision on the final make-up of the village is to be made by Christmas. Deighton added: "I think the difference the credit crunch has created is that before it was being built as a residential development which on the first part of its journey can serve as an athletes village. Now we are going to build an athletes' village which will then turn into a residential development."

American Observer:

Some people have compared what the Chinese did to the Yue to what Americans did to the original peoples of this continent. The comparisons are apt. Wikipedia is always sympathetic to China, but Wikipedia is still a good place to start. I quote:

"The Qin armies also advanced south along the Xiang River to modern Guangdong and set up commanderies along the main communication routes. Throughout the Han Dynasty period two groups of Yue were identified, that of the Nan-Yue in the far south, who lived mainly in the area of what is now Guangdong, Guangxi, and Vietnam; and that of the Min-Yue who lay to the southeast, centred on the Min River in modern Fujian.

Sinification of these peoples was brought about by a combination of imperial military power, regular settlement and Chinese refugees. The difficulty of logistics and the malarial climate in the south made the displacement and eventual sinification of the Yue peoples a slow process. When the Chinese came into contact with local Yue peoples, they often wrested control of territory from them or subjugated them by force. When a serious rebellion broke out in 40 AD by the Trung Sisters in what is now modern Vietnam, a force of some 10,000 imperial troops was dispatched under General Ma Yuan. Between 100 and 184 no less than seven outbreaks of violence took place, often calling for strong defensive action by the Chinese.

As Chinese migrants gradually increased, the Yue were gradually forced into poorer land on the hills and in the mountains. Unlike the nomadic peoples of Central Asia, such as the Xiongnu or the Xianbei, however, the Yue peoples never posed any serious threat to Chinese expansion or control. Sometimes they staged small scale raids or attacks on Chinese settlements - termed "rebellions" by traditional historians. The Chinese for their part regarded them as being highly uncivilised and prone to fight one another.

While most Yue peoples were eventually sinicized, the Kam-Tai (Daic):Zhuang, Buyi, Dai, Sui(Shui), Kam(Dong), Hlai(Li), Mulam, Maonan, Ong-Be(Lingao), Thai, Lao, Shan and the Vietnamese peoples retained their ethnic identities. Some of these peoples also have their own nation-states today. In particular, the Vietnamese people broke free from Chinese rule in the 10th century and have their own state to this day."


So as you can see, some of the Yue successfully resisted Chinese colonialism, and these people now live in Vietnam and Laos and Thailand. Others, however, were completely crushed; and a few, like the Zhuang, will probably be independent someday. If you want to read more, you can read the rest online at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yue_%28peoples%29

American Observer:

'Anonymous' says:

"China's people don't even know your "racist term" since they are not trashy minded like you."

American Observer replies:

That is a lie. I have heard the term 'White Trash' from Chinese many times -- it is an important part of modern Chinese culture.


To American Observer,

Case Comparison Study:
United States Government vs. Native Indians
Chinese Communist Party vs. Tibetan Separatists

Please answer my questions.

---How about a study of how the Chinese exterminated the Li, the Yue, and the Miao?---

They are driving cars and living in mansions, wearing American Eagle Brand, read and write Chinese poetry, and listening American rap, and watching Hollywood films... better than Han and Americans.

But how about your native Indians, do they have enough stones to throw at your cops, not allowed huh?

Maybe your government should allow them to be in our Tibet, to learn from our monks about how to throw stones at their own government.

by the way, how many Natives your family and Ancestors had killed, do you still collect their trophies? And you wanna show them off at Roadshow program on Channel 13? What a learning huh?

Maybe you should mix them with the ones you got from Iraq. Set a section of trophies around world or something, maybe you have one from China too that passed from your great great grandpa and grandpa.

American Observer:

Here is the web site for the Southern Mongolian Human Rights Information Center. You can find the link at http://www.smhric.org/index.htm .

There is a lot of good history on the board. For example, the Southern Mongolian Human Rights Information Center reports on the crimes of the Chinese against the Mongol people during the Cultural Revolution. I quote an article entitled:

"Mongolian Genocide by Communist China during the Cultural Revolution in Inner Mongolia"

"The political landscape of Inner Mongolia was completely turned over in 1966, however when, out of the blue, Mao Ze-dong, Chairman of the Central Committee of the CCP, accused the IMPP headed by Ulaanhu of persistently refusing to dissolve since 1947, and that it had continued an underground “political movement aiming to divide the motherland, China”. With this accusation, the genocide against Mongols started, with the aim of rooting out the Mongolian elite. A conservative estimate by the Chinese government states that 16,222 Mongols lost their lives. An independent study reports, however, that a further 50,000 Mongols were victims of the Revolution. The genocide against Mongols in the IMAR was triggered against the background of confrontation between two forces, “one for the unification of a nation state and the other against it”. "


Of course, the Chinese empire is still persecuting Mongols who resist the Chinese empire. As this latest article should show us, and I quote:

"Another Mongolian Arrested for Alleged Links with 'Separatists'

As China’s pre-Olympics crackdown intensifies in Southern (Inner) Mongolia, a young ethnic Mongolian businessman named Burildguun, 35 years old, was arrested by the Eveenkh Banner (“E Wen Ke Qi” in Chinese) State Security Bureau personnel during his trip to attend a Traditional Mongolian Chess Competition in the said Banner on July 29, 2008, for alleged links to overseas “separatists”. Native of New Barag Right Banner (“Xin Ba Er Hu You Qi” in Chinese) of eastern Southern Mongolia’s Hailaar Municipality, Mr. Burildguun, along with his wife Sarnaa, owned two souvenir shops named “Toonot Nutug Mongolian Artworks” in the Banner capital Altan-Emeel Town. "


Anyone who is interested in the truth about the Chinese empire and Chinese colonialism can start by reading this site.


American Observer:

This has got to end. It is time for the Chinese to give up their Chinese arrogance and it is time for the Chinese to give up their Chinese condescension and it is time for the Chinese empire to withdraw from all of the colonies of the Chinese empire. The Chinese empire must get out of Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Monogolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture. China out of Tibet! China out of East Turkestan! Unite Inner and Outer Mongolia! Unite all three Koreas!

I feel sorry for those people arguing with you.
You are just a loser rattling your fork with much hoopla. I am an Mongol in China,who told you we want independence?
There has not any Chinese empire in this world but white criminals cheating and killing.
Come,killer,you can find your tomb in China.

American Observer:

Anonymous, my logic has defeated you, and so you have stooped to racist name-calling, and you have spammed this board four times. Your behavior should teach our readers more about the level of modern China than anything I can do or say.


//How about a study of how the Chinese exterminated the Li, the Yue, and the Miao?//

American Observer,
You really, really think we chinese are like your white people.

White Trash your are!

American Observer:

Allan says:

"What is more important is that, a nation which is
modest and good at learning from others is a promising group. In the contrary, a country which is proud everyday and wants to force others to learn his success instead of respecting the diversity of the world and learning others' advantages may get into troubles..."

American Observer replies:

Exactly. We all know that the Chinese conquered the Li, the Yue, and the Miao and we all know that the Chinese killed their people, stole their land, and forced the survivors to live the Chinese way. Now, the People's Republic of China continues to occupy Tibet and Eaast Turkestan and Inner Mongolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, and the People's Republic of China is 'proud everyday and wants to force others to learn his success instead of respecting the diversity of the world!'

This has got to end. It is time for the Chinese to give up their Chinese arrogance and it is time for the Chinese to give up their Chinese condescension and it is time for the Chinese empire to withdraw from all of the colonies of the Chinese empire. The Chinese empire must get out of Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Monogolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture. China out of Tibet! China out of East Turkestan! Unite Inner and Outer Mongolia! Unite all three Koreas!


Seeing is believing.

My friend Jason is studying in US now and he says US is good.

My teacher Ola from US who is in China now says China is good.

What I want to say is that the world consists of more that 200 countries ,just like 200 students in one class, John may be good at playing basketball and Li may be fond of Kung Fu , both of them enjoy their life. The difference makes our world colorful.

What is more important is that, a nation which is
modest and good at learning from others is a promising group. In the contrary, a country which is proud everyday and wants to force others to learn his success instead of respecting the diversity
of the world and learning others' advantages may get into troubles, just like the ancient China , which had a glorious civilisation and then refused to see others' good points before being invaded .

This history may happen again on US if they focus themselves as the centre of the world, just like what ancient Chinese rulers did.
Because there is no country capable to be the centre of the world.
Just like you think yourself as the centre of your own mind, you won't to follow others' ordering. There may be someone worth learning from , but the learning is to enrich your own power.

Do you know why our Chinese respect US?
Because it can welcome all the talented people to its country and make use of their intelligence to promote the development of the country.
This is a wisdom.

The idea that suggests the US's university stop foreign students and teachers is obvious naive.
I think no professors will accept that.

Please remember, All of our human beings are in the
same family.
One world, One dream. This is not just the slogan of Beijing Olympic Games, but also a good wish for
all of us in the era of globalisation.

American Observer:

'Anonymous' says:

"Case Comparison Study:
United States Government vs. Native Indians
Chinese Communist Party vs. Tibetan Separatists


Please put on some of your input. "

American Observer replies:

How about a study of how the Chinese exterminated the Li, the Yue, and the Miao? How about a case study of how the Chinese abolished their cultures and filled their land with Chinese settlers? How about a case study of how the Chinese brought the Great Leap Forward to Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous prefecture, starving the people until they had to eat their own children to survive? Can you give that case study to us, 'Anonymous'? Then, please give us a case study of how China's Red Guards attacked Tibet and East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture and forced the teenagers there to beat their mothers and fathers to death. Those case studies will help everyone on this board understand Chinese culture. We all need your 'input!'

American Observer:

Algonquin says:

"Personally, I'll take China over Bush's U.S.A. anytime. I don't recall China invading any country without cause lately unlike Bush & Blair's war crime of invading Iraq for it's oil."

American Observer replies:

Algonquin, is that a joke of some kind? The Chinese empire remains in occupation of Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture. The Chinese kill their people and steal their land, and the Chinese are in the process of filling the stolen land with Chinese settlers -- just as the Chinese did to the Yue and Miao in centuries past. Is that what you support? If so, I don't think you are a real Algonquin -- I think you are just an old-fashioned Pretendian.


UN General Assembly calls for Olympic truce

'Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon joined the General Assembly in calling on all those who are at war to observe the traditional two-week Olympic Truce.

“Let them lay down their weapons, if only temporarily, so that humanity can lay claim to gold even before the Games begin,” he said in a message ahead of the Games.

Such a truce, while limited in duration, can provide a pause in which to reconsider the heavy cost of war, as well as an opening to initiate a dialogue and a window to provide relief for suffering populations, he said.

“It can demonstrate to the world that peace is possible in even the most seemingly intractable situations if we truly work towards it,” he added.'



Personally, I'll take China over Bush's U.S.A. anytime. I don't recall China invading any country without cause lately unlike Bush & Blair's war crime of invading Iraq for it's oil.


No doubt, the Chinese system will collapse after the Olympics.
As a nation, China will continue to exist, but its culture will be in the museum of world history.

Michael Turton:

John, you couldn't pay me enough to blog on an unmoderated blog like this. Why don't you have people who delete the fruitcakes?



Most posters here are missing the point of the article. Mr. Pomfret is NOT advocating the "us" versus "them" argument, he is subtly criticizing those in the media that ARE making it. So what if he points out a couple of blemishes he sees in the country? Every country has them, and John has a right to state his opinion. China's "destiny" is by no means pre-ordained. They might become a great nation...or they might not. They have much going both for and against them, and predicting the future is usually a difficult and dangerous undertaking. Only time will tell how the China story plays out.


What the chinese nationalist "students" who regularly TROLL this forum will not admit is that as soon as Americans stop shopping at Wal-Mart, the entire chinese "economy" will go down the toilet.

As soon as Americans stop chinese invasions into our colleges and universities, there will be NO educated people in china.

As soon as Americans STOP chinese immigration into our country, we will not be subject to the non-sensical verbal attacks by the chinese "students."

China invented gunpowder and noodles. That's about it.

EVERYTHING else that the chinese enjoy (temporarily, most likely) they were given by, or they STOLE from, Americans.


all i can say my feiiow AMERICAN go their to win and do your best

Game on!:

'The United States is the sole superpower of the world. But after the Games, America's superpower status in sports could be ceded to China. If so, the Mao Zedong's slogan, "surpassing Britain, catching up with America" would become reality.

So, if you are not familiar with the song "March of the Volunteers," you'll probably get an earful during the Olympics, more than what you'll hear of the Star-Spangled Banner...'


wu ming:

all the chinese ever do is say only their opinions are true and everyone else is a liar and they don't know anything about china or chinese. It really is so tedious to never be able to have any kind of discussion with them. Its one reason they will never be any kind of great power. All their bravado about their 5000 years of culture and the seven inventions are the past. The world has moved past all that years or hundreds of years ago. What inventions have they created in the last 2 hundred years? Why does Hu repeatedly say innovate innovate? Because they don't. They copy other people's hard efforts and then call it theirs. Remeber the Jiao Tong "computer expert" who "invented a new superchip? Then, later it was discovered that he stole it from Texas instruments. What a loss of face to Hu! But, they have an excuse for that...as they always do. No one is allowed to criticize them and if they do then they are trying to block their development, even if it comes from theft.


Can John Pomfret write in more serious English?

"Huh?" "kinda" "wily Fu Manchu"... even "??", just to collect a few. This isn't a high school campus newspaper.

Or is this the norm of American English?

Game on!:

The writer George Orwell said, sport is war without bullets.

Richard Conn Henry:

KMAN Australia,

I liked your summary of American culture so much I copied it and mailed it to myself. What is it - something in the drinking water? - that makes America so innovative. One of my former neighbors (from Russia), well, his son, Sergei Brin, co-invented that Google you mentioned. I'm from Canada, and am so glad I'm now American! My wife is from England, and so glad to be American now! This is a truly remarkable country.

Yang C:

Poffret never make sense to me. He not Chinese, but he crazy for it. He always say that what every person think of China is no good. Why this man must say these things? I think Porfert wants to make fight no matter if it hurt Chinese.


Hi jiggly mew,

When I said I give up buying Omega, I didn't mean to show off or anything. And I'm indeed just an ordinary Chinese who waiting for pay cheque every month.

The China is changing now, especially in those big cities like Shanghai or Guangdong, people get paid for about 2k USD per month if they are highly professional and work in a big organization. with year end bonus, to purchase an 10K USD Omega watch isn't a big issue. I'm young and don't want to start saving right now, and paying in installment with my girl rather than an lump some.

There are plenty of my friends or classmates live in a similiar way as me. Although maybe they are just the top 20% in the big cities, and there are still a lot Chinese paid few hundreds USD or even less, but the world is keep changing, don't think China is still in the 1970S when people cannot afford bread.

I guess that's also the big reason why the western journalists are still reporting China like in the Cold War.

Erik :

Could one of you US or THEM's get this Soviet a Vodka...


hi Shawn,
what you wrote is great, Westerners don't understand our culture, they see some Chinese bad and say all the Chinese are bad, let him ask his own fellows who are now in Beijing, ask them what is real China, you people, be aware, we Chinese are a big ethnic group, we Chinese are decent people, and I hope you can realize that afterwards!

kman australia:

"there is no clash of civilization as John dreams the same as your government, that US has no culture at all"
Let's understand one thing -I don't know where you live but the culture you are living right now is American culture.After WWII the world adopted American culkture. The US has invented just about everything that makes our lives easier,safer and cheaper.America invented everything thing from dishwashers, washing machines and indoor air conditioning, supermarkets to shopping malls,bowling alleys and indoor flush toilets,the electric light and elevators,ATM's,Ipods the six-pak,credit cards, most electric tools and credit cards..Also the modern brassiere, sewing machines,Tupperware,Band Aids ,Kleenex,razor blades, Americans invented the airplane,bulldozers, mass produced cars,cellular phones,I Phone,Ipods,GPS, Personal Computers, the internet,search engines including Google. Ipods,Blackberry,Blueberry,Wi Fi, Ti Vo, cable TV . Even the modern Santa Claus is American, as is basketball, baseball,surfboards,body boards, snow boards, skate boards and the frisbee. Then there is fast food, TV dinners,most soft drinks and almost all video, music and dance including jive, jazz,blues,country and western and rock and roll etc.etc.The US invented denim jeans,T-shirts,sneakers ,baseball caps,hooded sweatshirts,loafers,gym boots,contact lenses,bi focals and polaroid sunglasses.Almost all board and video games and poker are American. All TV news,and other formats, including game shows,serials, soaps,and cartoons from Mickey Mouse to the the Simpsons are American. Every aspect of your daily life is influenced by American ingenuity, and you say there is no such thing as American culture?











Hi Anonymous,

Don't push too hard on Mr. Pomfret, after all, he's just someone need pay cheque. Quote William said, We shouldn't "insult and humiliation those less informed Westerner"

Maybe Ms Zhang (or Ms Pomfret?) hold the same belief as John Pomfret? and that's the reason she married him? You couldn't force people to hold the same belief as you, even though she was your compatriot.

But I'm indeed not happy with John Pomfret's report as well. As a good journalist, it's great you criticize some governments, dig out the dark side. But aren't you supposed to report everything? both bad and good, in order to create a full picture to your readers? What I seen from John Pomfret's blog is that he filtered those good news or even neutral news and only left the controversial or dark side news. This really made me doubt if he's in a neutral stance to report. I feel this is no better than the censorship in China over BBC or Anmesty International's website. At least the Chinese government has a good reason to censor those website as they are attacking the government. so to washington post and John, what's ur excuse to censor the news? because the Chinese grab your job? or "to put down China in order to avoid attacking it"?

as to Joey Cheek, I'm sorry he's starting from a wrong position, pointing to a wrong person over Darfur. Not only the Beijing Government won't issue Visa to him, all the Chinese won't either. He's lucky being protected by the Beijing Government for not issuing visa, or he might end up being kicked at the street in Beijing.

Luckily he didn't present any famous brand, or those poor company would lose their sales due to this guy's action. Remember George Clooney? Omega lost a chance to sell two watches to me because of Clooney, while i'm just an ordinary Chinese with no special support to China communist.

Last,don't count this as warning, but do remember, we all are watching! There's a balance in our heart.


John Pomfret,


Since I read your blog for a long time, so I edit your Chinese.

By the way, does your Chinese wife cook?

Talk about Joey Cheek, he asked what he wanted.
He is sportsman and allowed to support his belief,
he sacrificed some of his time and he did not have to be a crying babe in front of cameras.

Everything in this world takes sacrifice, a athlete knows about it more than anyone.

Look at Wang Dan and Dalai, and many could not go back to China; a few years ago, my father, also, but he was happily to suffer for his belief.

When the Olympic torch in France, and your right-wing Bashing China episode taking on stage, who are the ones really caring about sports?
Who respects Olympic spirit?
Who gives crap about true friendship? your politician, your media?

You do not even know that this is the last time Chinese want to host Olympic and try to invite friends from the world, and all you guys treat our country like these?

Even the Communist party did a lot of bad things, but everyone is clear that you guys doing it to Chinese, at least if you guys respect Chinese or China the country, you would not play your drama like right now.

John, from the bottom your heart you tell yourself that you do this only to the Chinese government?

9 out of 10 Chinese would not want another Olympic in future, why, we want peace.

And you American have not realize that your bashing attitude will be recorded into Chinese history book, and that would effect future US and Chinese relation to next generation, When future Chinese talk about their Olympic history, they would look at the Americans, and that image is not good as you guys never imagined,

We Chinese invited Americans here, just after the earthquake and many other political and weather problems, but those Americans came with mask and treat us like we live in the pig bed, and held our government weakness and never let go to ruin our good time in front of whole world...

have you ever thought about that, like you invite some friends to your birthday party while you save your three month allowance for it, and they come in and bash you for your fault and mistake? Couldn't they wait for the next day? Why they choose the time to yell at you when you pass them the drink?

You Americans are disgraceful and unfaithful and idiotic people in the world.

This is the way you treat someone who invites you to his party?

Even any 7 yrs old kids know better than this.

Would Communist party earn any credits or honor if no one yells against them? God is above, no one can clean off the blood off his hands, nor Communist party, nor US government.

But you guys just want to make fun of Chinese, that's all.


Bashing on China is a in-thing this season.First starting by media subscribing to that French "Journalism without border",or whatever,nobody care its name, this vogue is followed by some celebrities showing off the intelligence they should have otherwise and now by some less informed athletes who buy in the media only.

Too few in American columnist like Pomfret that have experience in China and know what is real in China.

Informed Chinese now are used to the insult and humiliation those less informed Westerner throw on them.


While John Pomfret is right to criticize the mentality he describes, this subject is essentially a non-issue because few persons, even among the hordes of ignorant people in the world, are sufficiently "intellectually challenged" or stupid to believe such nonsense, as the Olympics being a struggle between two competing systems.

In any event, the United States is not and definitely was not intended to be a true democracy. The fact is most of the founding fathers were very distrustful of democracy, believing it often led to "mob rule." Therefore the Constitution was deliberately written as a form of mixed government. There are still major structural elements in the Constitution that are quite undemocratic. So when Bush and others talk about this country being a "democracy" and wanting to spread "democracy" to other countries, what exactly are they talking about? Certainly Bush was not democratically elected president almost eight years ago.

As has been written by numerous writers, John Dean, Al Gore and Mike Nicols being a few examples, the Bush-Cheney administration has seemed to many people to aspire to monarchial pretensions. The Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, has been repeatedly violated. Yet most Democrats, except the valiant Dennis Kuccinich and a few others, do not seem to care if the executive branch violates the Constitution in ways more serious than the abuses leading to the impeachment efforts against Nixon and especially Clinton. One of the hallmarks of our quasi-democratic political system is supposed to be reverence and adherence to the Constitution. Yet most persons do not seem to care much about this anymore.

China may have very limited freedom of the press, especially concerning criticismz of the national leadership. The United States has shown less freedom of the press than many may think during the last sixty years. Most persons in the media were intimidated, believed government propaganda or exercised self-censorship during McCarthyism, the cold war until the Vietnam war in the mid 1960's and Bush foreign policies, especially the invasion of Iraq, until quite recently.

There have been and are major human rights violations by the Chinese government. But who is Bush to have any credibility on this issue? Numerous writers and editorials during the last two or three years have transcended earlier pervasive inhibitions, to strongly criticize the Bush=Cheney administration as being responsible for serious human rights abuses. A majority of historians are likely to regard Bush, primarily because of the human rights abuses, violations of the Constitution and Iraq as being one of the five worst presidents.

The Olympic games have long lost any claim to being purely athletic competitions between individual amateurs. Excessive nationalism by many countries, including media coverage, professionalism, greed linked to commercial success for certain athletes, politicizing the games by individuals in many countries, have made a mockery of the Olympic ideals. These ideals are very unlikely to be revived during the coming Olympics in China or in any other country in the future.



It is the sad fact that only a small fraction of Americans having the idea like you. Otherwise the game between China and US will be much easier.

To the side of Chinese people, I believe few of them have the enthusiasm to erect a enemy and bash on it, which is favored by some American Media. It is not a smart way to prove your superiority, and people outside this country won't subscribe that. The extreme example is the terrorists, who are more or less created by US own.


A senior moment (what I get for posting with insomnia!). My apologies to Mr. Pomfret for misspelling his name.


The Olympic Games are the Olympic Games. They are (or should be) about sports, nations coming together in peace (guess Americans don't want to do that) to highlight international peaceful competition.

They should be a chance for people to learn about each other and for the host city/nation to highlight itself.

But so much of the Western media is so determined to Bash China, that they have arrived with closed minds full of anger.

A clash of civilizations? Why? Do we need to clash?

Mr. Pomfrey's best effort requires him to put down China in order to avoid attacking it. Sigh.

What would be curious would be to see how the rest of the world press is covering all of this, you know, outside the center of the universe, the beltway.

John Pomfret:




---Yes, Pyongyang has nukes and is run by a nut case. Zimbabwe's regime specializes in immiserating its people. Burma in beating its. Sudan in killing its. But, moon people, these guys ain't the East Bloc or the Warsaw Pact. They just ain't.---

I think they should do a genocide like how US government did to Native Indians, and after all done, washing their hands, put on another dress, and make a Human right flag and set a table of democracy.

The only difference between these countries and US is that they can do a clean job, so in future they will have a separatism problem like China is facing right now.

People should all take care those bad-listeners like US government did to Native Indians, model case of ethnic problem solution.

Case Comparison Study:
United States Government vs. Native Indians
Chinese Communist Party vs. Tibetan Separatists


Please put on some of your input.


there is no clash of civilization as John dreams the same as your government, that US has no culture at all, whether from Hollywood or Capital hill; you wish. Even though China is a young country status, still we were young so many times, since Shang Dynasty to now, read our history, how Chinese build back our country and retain and flourish our culture, for some of western countries like US and French, that they just cannot stand that someone is better or going to be stronger than they are, but time is in our hands, and surely as the ceremony of Olympic showcases not communist belief, but Confucius, and rest of deep Chinese tradition...

John you dream to be a challenger of world Culture, and always picks Chinese to be your competitor, or I should say your enemy, but in fact, US is not, you cannot do nothing;

Chinese are our own enemy; and we don't struggle against world and around world like some of the old women, we struggle within ourselves, and every time we become better and stronger.

This is beginning of new era, that the world would see a true friend that has lived over 5000yrs in the true concept of peace and harmony, and no communism, nor capitalism, but Confucius, Mencius, Taoism...

China don't compete around world as western countries had been doing for over 3000 yrs, US is her own enemy, you can fight within yourself to be better by using your so called 'democracy' system to improve yourself, or, still vote for the benefit of American to bully the whole world.

No matter how you try, the fact is it is good time, and God favors the true peaceful people. You are only seeing the beginning, but in the end, The peaceful people will receive the earth - Jesus

Repent, John, so you will have your share. Stop provoking the world into a conflict, you don't look well in that dress, it is time to take it off.

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