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In China, All Politics (You Can Protest) is Local

The riots last weekend in Guizhou province – an estimated 30,000 people converging on a police station to protest the alleged cover-up of a teenage girl's rape and murder – illustrate something important about China today. In the United States, we generally like our local governments, our mayors and even our city councils. But we’re deeply split about the feds. In China, it’s the other way around. No one trusts the local potentate. The local cops? Worse than dogs.

The girl, Li Shufen, was a high school student. Her body was recovered from a river in Weng’an county on June 22. The police said she had committed suicide by drowning, but her relatives disagreed. The rumor was that Li was raped and killed by people related to local government bigwigs.

It’s important to note that among the people remonstrating with the Communist authorities, no one criticized the central government or, more broadly, China’s system of government. Yes, they attacked all of the Communist Party organs in the county – the cops, the government and the secret police. But throughout, in their letters to the party-state, they drew a clear distinction between the local thugs and Beijing. The implication from the remonstrators was clear: the center – Beijing – is good, but it’s just been led astray by local apparatchiks.

I’ve seen this attitude expressed throughout China’s countryside, where the bulk of China’s protests occur. It is, I think, one of the perverse reasons why the Communist Party can maintain power in China. The Party has generally succeeded in creating this distinction between local and central authorities – even though none really exists.

The tendency of Chinese to buy into this distinction is known to Chinese as the “blue sky” syndrome. The term comes from Judge Bao Qingtian, or “Blue Sky” Bao, a famed incorruptible judge in the Song Dynasty. Bao is revered in Chinese history as an idealized “pure official.”

Some have suggested the “Blue Sky” syndrome is a tactic used by Chinese protesters, who figure that if they damn the whole system, they’ll be crushed by its weight. I disagree. And time has shown that the local Party bosses are as tough with “Blue Skiers” as they are with any other protesters. I think their support of the central government, while perhaps misguided, is genuine. They really believe in a “Blue Sky” Bao who will fly down from heaven (or Beijing) and sweep away the local trolls. Dream on, my nongmin friends.

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Comments (104)

Zhang Fei:

Traditional Chinese state propaganda (dating to pre-communist times) has stressed the idea of rulers being like parents to the ruled. It's a weird conflation of Confucian ethics. Confucius said that loyalty to family trumps loyalty to state. Chinese propagandists have tried to sidestep that distinction by saying that loyalty to state *is* loyalty to family (i.e. the state is your family). There's even a pithy four character saying that if the state dies, your family also dies with it. This is of course, nonsensical, given the continued existence of Chinese families through the demise of the Yuan, Ming and Qing states. But you hear Chinese parroting this silly line all the time, as if it's some deeply meaningful thought.

I think what it really represents isn't all that complicated - the average Chinese has lost his belief in traditional religions. The response has been to put up this new god - the central government - as a benign and benevolent deity that has his best interests at heart. In 60 years of communist rule, traditional religions have withered on the vine with one exception - emperor worship is alive and well in China.

Clear Sky:

Weng'an: A turning point for China?

In "Every County is Weng'an,” Xu Zhiyong states that Weng'an and other incidents like it are symptoms of a larger problem ...

http://shanghaiist.com/2008/07/07/wengan_a_turning_point_for_china.php

Proud American:

You idiot, Americans can't live without enemy!

G8:

"At the Outreach Session of the G8 Summit, leaders of the Group of Eight major industrialized nations, China and other countries invited to the meeting, will discuss the pressing issues facing the world today, such as the world economy, climate change, food security and energy security.

On the sidelines of the G8 outreach session, President Hu is expected to meet some leaders participating in the event to discuss bilateral ties and international issues of common concern."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/07/content_8506147.htm

Hu Lin:

To idiot who cant write his name and wrote to Jay:

Instead to understand why we are called the "sick man" and "the threat to the world" you are going to complain about critism and to try a war againt the whole world. nice choice you idiot.

No wounder that another ethnics of PRC do not want to live with chinese together. We are hunger-greedy monsters who have no idea how to make own and others future.

Anonymous:

To idiot who cant write his name and wrote to Jay:

Accord German Leader of Lamaism Buddhists there was no conspiration about riots and protests against the torch. Asaide that this meeting was officialy and open. There was a protocol wich you can get from him and other people who were on those meeting. (he said that meeting was about immigration and tibetian relligion) so you are lying here.


Another point where you do out yourself as an BIG IDIOT is that The West has own Buddhists and they have own problems. So when they are sponsored by Wesern Gowerments then it is OK. Because many wester goverments sponsor own relligious and cultural unions. Os is it OK when those gropus demonstrate for democracy and own rghts. "The West" is democratic society wich give a S-hit about chinese brainwashed bastards who want to command them how the west should treat own relligions and own people.

To: Jay:

How can Chinese not be senitive when all physical assaut started with verbal criticism.
2007 NED sponsored a world tibet meeting including major German political parties to coordinate world-wide movement aided at Olympic. This year, it was a well-coordinated race riot in Tibet instigated and financed by NED and then well-coordinated verbal assault in the western media on Chinese people. As one Chinese nationist said it plainly.
When we were weak, we colonist us and called us sick man of the East.
When we get stronger, we call us threat of world peace. We had had enough of this. Just leave us alone.
Th West does not like any threat real or imaginary to their dominance of world affair. Until they get over this, this kind of verbal attack from both sides will continue. I hope it will stop at verbal attack.

Jay:

I wish the super-patriots on all sides would cool their rhetoric. While the non-Chinese are often guilty of extreme nationalism I do note that Chinese need to get used to criticism and learn how to both deal with it and learn from it. It seems that Chinese are hypersensitive to criticism and react to it with extreme nonsense and name-calling.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

President Bush on Sunday defended his decision to attend next month's Olympics opening ceremony in Beijing, saying that to boycott "would be an affront to the Chinese people."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/07/06/g8.summit/

gosh.. whats about insult of americans when torch was runing in SanFran?

Polity:

Chinese City Offers a Peek at Political Reform

"Shenzhen, China's first Special Economic Zone, and the first Chinese city to implement a policy of reform and opening up, recently published two guideline documents indicating a shift towards reform of the political system. On May 22, the Shenzhen city government website published a draft document outlining a 19-point reform program for Shenzhen. The first 8 points focused on political, governmental and administrative reforms and the remaining 11 points dealt with the economy, society, education, health, and culture. The points dealing with intra-Party democracy, grassroots democracy and reform of the election mechanism attracted the most attention.

Provisions regarding the development of socialist democratic politics and the promotion of reform of the political system were included in the resolution, including reform of the mechanisms for appointing cadres and making key policy decisions."

http://www.china.org.cn/government/local_governments/2008-07/04/content_15955536.htm

ugly duckling:

American,liberal or conservative, are hypocrite with prejudices built into their DNA.While you American are pointing your index finger on Chinese,don't forget there are three other fingers pointing at yourself.From 1800's [ Yellow Peril ]to 1950's McCarthysm,America really don't have any moral ground to judging other countries.

Wang:

Yeah, but why WOULD they criticize the central government in this case? This is a purely local issue. You also seem to be saying that the Chinese are wrong to make a distinction between the local government and national government--yet you mention that we do this too--only in reverse. So are you saying Americans who are critical of the federal government are wrong?

Ronnie:


I have lived in China for many years. Yes it is
true many Chinese would love come to America, mostly, I believe, for the money.

They are very loyal to China, no matter how the government treats them.

Many Americans in the University feel China is colonizing America. The population of Chinese is reaching up toward four million, with the school
population rising. Many students want to stay in America after graduating, because of the tremendous lack of jobs for degree holders in China.

Many illegal Chinese immigrants come to the U.S. pregnant, so their child will have American citizenship. If you are not Chinese in China you cannot give your child Chinese citizenship. There is a lack of reserprosity.

First generation Chinese in America don't speak to American's because they believe that Americans are not as 'pure' as they are, and can live in America without ever say hello to an American

Yes, after Dong Xiaoping Southern Journey Chinese are doing much better than under Mao's constant pressure for political equalization. But, the capitalist road is tough, and many cannot make a living if they are not well connected to government. Corruption and favoritism is diffiuclt for those with connections.

The 'rice bowl' is no longer offered to the folks in the countryside, and many wander into the cities looking for employment, only to find servitude and hate from the city dwellers.

The dream of many Chinese youth is to immigrate to the West. Education is one way to do so. They fill the Universities..and while college was once 'fun' for American youth, they are no match for the twenty-four hour students from China, who must return to China, were a foreign degree may be an opening for a job in China.

Even in America non-Chinese are considered 'foreignors' to the Chinese immigrant student. The American college students are beginning to resent them at major universities in the U.S.


JiaMing:

To Chinese posters:
Why do you let those people get to you with their attacks? they can shout free Tibet their whole life and it won't change anything. Just like there are plenty of people in the world who are calling for free Iraq from American occupation, free Afhganistan, return California and the western US to the Mexicans, and free Palestine. They are the losers of the modern world because instead of trying to make the world better, richer, and more importantly, safer, they want more bloodshed and suffering. I for one will not lower myself and waste my time with losers like them.

American Pride:

To Wang

I will not forgive the offense of your discriminating words and racist speech. I dont care that you have "good American" friends. You think you can some here insult everyone here and their families and then squirm out of discussion by saying that you are have some friends? NEVER.

You atacked by using dumb and senseless propaganda all time against USA and american sozial and political situation although here is a topic about China(Not Tibet, Not South Mongolia Not East-Turkestan, Not Manchuria) and chinese goverment politics.

and and and..

You cant take critism and you cant understand positive role of. aside that you are failed to bring clear arguments for understanding of actions of chinese local and central goverments in and after girl-death riots.

Sorry but you outed yourself as a very weak collocutor.

I dont even belive you are chinese. Because your knowledge about China is very small and has many negative and overstated positive stereotypes prejudices about Chinese People from different ethnics.

Wang:

To Anonymous and Proud American and Anti-Chinese,

I forgive the offense of your discriminating words and racist speech because I have some very good American friends, it is very hard to meet someone like you in US now.

You guys say whatever you want to now, I am not going to write a prosaic essay with my good poems to hurt other good American friends that I love dearly, and often we are on the same side. I am capable of doing that but I believe my pen serves a better work rather than to stab anyone with their humiliation.

I apologize to all Americans that my offensive post really did no respect.

And all you guys hate Chinese, you can yell whatever you want to, your curse can't ignite my anger no more. Good bye.

Shanghai Daily:

Internet a boost for Chinese democracy

"SEVENTY percent of a China Youth Daily survey believe that the Internet has become a new medium where Chinese people can freely express their opinions.

More than 67 percent of 2,874 surveyed said the Internet had become a major medium for the government to learn about the daily lives of people and to understand their thinking.

About 62 percent of the respondents felt that the government was paying attention to communicating with people and President Hu Jintao's online chat was a good example of Chinese democracy."

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/print.asp?id=365122

Anonymous:

China Wang is great exsample for chinese pigs.

talking s_hit and pure propaganda.

American Pride:

--Joan:
The matter of fact is that people in the PRC are more critical of their central governments than westerns tend to believe.--

realy? any proofs here? see that retard Wang he is saying he hate chinese goverment but he is butthurt biatch when people try to talk about the truth.

--For instance, recently the central government made a deal with Japan on Eastern China Sea oil developments and the overwhelmingly majoarity Chinese are critical of the central government for betraying the national interest of China by signing that agreement.---

WHAHAHAHAHA.. What a BS!! Are you seriously beliving that those nazis are not a product of chinese goverment and propaganda minestry?

--For another example, most Chinese were critical of the central government for being too weak on Xizang (Tibet) successionists.---

LOL. nice sarcasm. BTW. Tibet is much bigger than Tibet Autonomous Region.

--It is dangerous to generalize simply based on one incident which is local by nature and say that all Chinese trust the central government but not the local governments.---

Chinese trust noone. They are happy that their goverment dont make them down with own millitary and police.

Anonymous:

---You are right, my love! We Chinese don't trust our central or local government. We don't allow traitors. Not like American government give their people the permission of gun rights so they could fool the idea of democracy and freedom, but your government don't tell your people that a justified education and true knowledge is the true power of human rights, your government purposely fail that so no Americans would stand to your 'perfect' government as Dr. Martin Luther King. So the 'blind' could easily lead other true blind.---

WTF? Chinese discuting pig is going to teach americans what they should do? how about shut up and learn you dumb discusting chinese pig?

Anonymous:

To Joan:

Yeahh. sure.. thats why they welcome paras and millitary in own streets.

Wang:

To Dear Joan,

You are right, my love! We Chinese don't trust our central or local government. We don't allow traitors. Not like American government give their people the permission of gun rights so they could fool the idea of democracy and freedom, but your government don't tell your people that a justified education and true knowledge is the true power of human rights, your government purposely fail that so no Americans would stand to your 'perfect' government as Dr. Martin Luther King. So the 'blind' could easily lead other true blind.

To Anonymous and Proud American and Anti-Chinese

Oh, my fellow countrymen.
See our July 4th fireworks,
how great our nation shine
the sparks of our perfect ideal
as our dreams of our founding fathers
in the magnificent flash to illume our sky
in all kind of colors and shapes for our night,
but who knows in seconds they disappear
into a gun powder smoke, scattered by the wind
to the world from west to east and forever gone.
and the night over our sky still dark,
only our dreams in our unconscious mind,
continually glow as we sleep,
oh good dreams, my fellow countrymen.

- by China Wang

You feel free to copy and publish my 21th Century best American poem. Your daughter may want to marry me if she reads my poem.

Joan:

The matter of fact is that people in the PRC are more critical of their central governments than westerns tend to believe. For instance, recently the central government made a deal with Japan on Eastern China Sea oil developments and the overwhelmingly majoarity Chinese are critical of the central government for betraying the national interest of China by signing that agreement. For another example, most Chinese were critical of the central government for being too weak on Xizang (Tibet) successionists. It is dangerous to generalize simply based on one incident which is local by nature and say that all Chinese trust the central government but not the local governments.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

Representatives of the Dalai Lama and China made no headway on the status of Tibet in talks this week, an envoy of the spiritual leader said Saturday, describing himself as "disappointed."

"There is a growing perception among the Tibetans and my friends that the whole tactic of the Chinese government is to engage us to stall for time," said Lodi Gyari, who led the two-man team which met Chinese officials in Beijing.

"My colleague and I told our Chinese counterpart candidly that we ourselves are beginning to inch towards this school of thought."

Gyari and Kelsang Gyaltsen met with a series of Chinese officials on Tuesday and Wednesday for the seventh round of a dialogue process that was started in 2002 but broke off last year.

The recent events in Tibet clearly demonstrated the Tibetan people's genuine and deep-rooted discontentment with the People's Republic of China's policies," said Gyari, who briefed the Dalai Lama earlier Saturday.

"We had hoped that the Chinese leadership would reciprocate our efforts by taking tangible steps during this round," said Gyari at a press conference in the Tibetan exile enclave of Dharamshala, in India's Himalayan foothills.

"On the contrary, due to their excessive concern about legitimacy the Chinese side even failed to agree to our proposal of issuing a joint statement with the aim of committing both parties to the dialogue process."
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g4ilurbM15r8jaYxwLlayXg_z5_A

Anonymous:

--Even European think that American are extremely loud, unnaturally fat, and shamelessly embarrassing.

chinese are worse.

Wang:

To MLee,

you are one of clear-head Americans according to your speech, but only a few Americans like you. Maybe you should go pursue a political or media career in US, but I am afraid that sitting on the foundation of US government that built by greed, it is very very difficult to not to give up, because you will be discriminated by all those idiot head politicians who using your system as money machine, current US government is not as dreamable and amiable as period of Independence, that maybe a reason that US is current experiencing a down road from economical, political, global, and social, moral standard, and your kids are not educated as 50 years ago, everything in US is Marketing, which greed is the base. US government system is her own enemy, not other country; I hope Americans realize this as soon as possible, it is a pity to see a great country once held a great hope that going to become a dream never reachable.
In every family or nation, all corrupt from her inside, if American truly remain strong and faithful and righteous to others, who would dislike you or refuse your help?
Physician, heal thyself.

mlee:

J Pomfret : >>The implication from the remonstrators was clear: the center – Beijing – is good, but it’s just been led astray by local apparatchiks....It is, I think, one of the perverse reasons why the Communist Party can maintain power in China. The Party has generally succeeded in creating this distinction between local and central authorities – even though none really exists.<<

I believe this is not a fair interpretation of the locals’ letters. I do not believe you can presume the opinions of the relatives extrapolate to be the opinions of 30,000 onlookers, many perhaps aggrieved in other ways. I do not believe you can so confidently simplify people’s opinions into “black and white.” This process is akin to westerners poll-taking : “Do you believe .... Please answer "Yes or No or I Don’t Know.” Such polls grossly simplify human nature and response into digestible form for the American public, which now seems incapable of understanding, acknowledging or appreciating the breadth and depth of human nature and response, particularly those of foreign peoples and cultures. “Axis of Evil” anyone ?

Second, I believe most Chinese mistrust their government, including the CPC, certainly far more than their American counterparts, who appear easily “misled” into supporting the Iraq invasion and occupation, surrendering their precious individual freedoms to telecommunication corporations, federal security agencies, and the like, because Americans on average lack the capacity or competence to analyze, rethink and solve global complex problems. Remember the US Congress’ response to American overdependence on cheap oil and surging oil prices - a $300 tax credit. Or Senator John McCain’s solution to oil addiction, pollution, and loss of US car manufacturing jobs - a contest worth $300 million in prize monies to whomever discovers a “better car battery”? This Chinese mistrust of the central government, however, was vastly diminished by the grossly simplistic and “wrong-headed” attacks by western activists, journalists and politicians over the Tibet March 2008 protests and riots. Westerners are now viewed suspiciously by many Chinese as ignorant, deceptive, hypocritical and/or possibly racist or at least dangerously xenophobic.

This brings me to the point that freedom and democracy are grossly over-rated and over-simplified by westerners to the point of incompetence. Democracy and freedom are only as good as the people who define them and put them to use in that complex process of filtration and implementation into real-world governance. If the Americans comprise the largest debtor nation in history, the most dangerously armed, the biggest military spender exceeding the next eight nations combined, the host nation to the subprime mortgage fraud and deceit resulting in global financial crises, the nation of gas-guzzling motor vehicles and “bottled water” consumption, most responsible for skyrocketing oil prices with rumored plans to attack Iran, the most overweight and prone to diabetes and related diseases, whose high school students have difficulty in finding Iraq on the global map, and whose unflagging resort to the phrase “freedom and democracy” as a cure-all for all ills and panacea for all problems of whatever scope and nature for all nations, peoples or cultures, the most inmates in prison, many of whom are black or hispanic, whose Supreme Court recently adopted an interpretation of the Second Amendment regarding gun control, going two hundred years backwards in time, demonstrate the alarming course, regression and loss of values once touted as the world’s beacon for hope and the future. The worst parts are how disillusioning Americans are in assessing their world-view and how clueless they now appear to be in going about seeking solutions.

Given the above, I do not see how one can so easily transgress two very different cultures with very different approaches and redefine a real world ideal like “pure official” that one or one’s children can aspire to be to metamorphose into a cure-all, sinicized “angel from heaven.”

Wang:

To American Pride,

Even European think that American are extremely loud, unnaturally fat, and shamelessly embarrassing.
And sometimes they wonder the Americans can't even control their own overweight problem, how the hell are they going to solve the world issues. LOL:) I think they hold a good point.

Kacoo:

Do what you must locally, but no more gatherings in the big square.

American Pride:

To American Pride:

--As Chinese, we are not going to become rich and filthy as soon as Americans, because our policy is not like US that seeks the benefit of their OWN people round everywhere in the world.--

Do you know how "rich" ordinary americans are? Or are you going to count Billionaires there?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ixQlU1GeghWewhn1PFb2nZwzEPPg


---As American, they are so proud that God is on their side so they can rob from the world by their military dressing the cloth as world police,---

WAIT! What? Are you russian or are you chinese?

--holding the banner of Democracy, human rights while tearing other countries apart, so their oil business entering behind and pumping the third world countries like a cheap whole, for $1 per gallon, and they say "liberty march on!" but actually they never tell the world that their liberty is marching on with their guns and missiles. ---

one Word: DARFUR. Should i say another Keywords like Iran, Pakistan, Burma, Fiji, Angola, Zimbabwe... All countries where China "pumps out".

--How proud they should be that luring their young naive people into their military forces by promising them a bankrupt educational college fund, (it is more like you go shooting people outside then I pay you with a better life when you come back), while their political system is no democracy or republic, but oil business and other big fat ass organizations control their system and their people, and their screwed media is never free speech, because money is stacked into their throat, when every time there is some important news or issues would rip off another cover, they print Britney Spear to draw away people's attention,

Hey. It works well until now. poor people get education. Aside that have you even tryed to understand chinese forign politics in third world countires?

--what is so proud to fight every unjust war?--

Dont Know. but you should tell us about. because of north-Korea and Tibet.

--what is proud to set your military forces everywhere in the world and never get out?--

Lol. you know that without american Fleets chinese exports were impossible.

--what is proud to have your untrained soldiers to torture the POW of Iraq war?---

WHAT? TIBET DUDE, TIBET.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nangpa_La_killings

--what is proud when your government betrayed you and your sons? what is proud being a 'human right' banner carrier torture other people? what is proud that the whole world people dislike you? what is proud that you being American but never know your government works not for you but for some big companies? how proud you guys shot your own presidents and Doc. Martin Luther King? how proud you drop atomic bombs? how proud you guys illegally dragged American Japanese into labor camp by their look and race? how proud only your men could vote 100 year ago? how proud that black brothers were chained here to slave for your cotton? how proud 200 years ago land of American filled by native Indians and now all cleansed to almost no more? how proud you guys give Indians your casinos to shut their mouth and abandon their true religion, how proud you guys shooting off the Mormons...

Soo much Bullsh_it. I see you knows more about USA then about China. maybe you should stop to be a Paranoia Joe retard.


---Democracy, Freedom, Human Rights, Free Religion...
to you guys is just a illusion, and if you forget your own history and don't see your present matter clearly, you are easily to think that you are proud.---

Whahahahaha.. BLABLABLA..

your alternatives=rolling chinese tanks full with chinese paras.

---Maybe you should be proud for your stupidness, only in US, people using their freedom of speech to spread their hate, as of this year, Democrats present their leaders, Hilary and Obama, you never lack of any discriminating speech on women and black, have you read this site, how many you guys openly discriminating? Did Washingtonpost did anything, no, it is freedom of speech, you guys don't even know what is freedom of speech.--

Blablabla.. I'm still proud for USA.

----And your international policy is that you must live with an enemy, you guys can't even live without an enemy.

Who supported Ben Laden 20/30 years ago? Who supported Saddam Hussein? Why your used-to-be friends turned against you? You should be so proud the US government seeking their own benefit everywhere around the world, and now being an American cannot roam as you want to in Middle East and Africa.

Proud of what? bombing innocent people? tearing other countries apart? Sending your young soldiers to die? Turning your vague belief for economical benefit of your own people? No wonder all the developing countries rather fight civil war, would not want your government's 'helps'. Simply, They don't TRUST you, proud American.

Print my post, frame it, and hang it in your bed room, My brother, as a good gift from me.
---

Blablabla.. Still proud of USA.

Anonymous:

JiaMing:

---I must say that Western thinkers like yourself are giving the system too much credit for building a just and properous society.--

Have you even smallest understanding of how many "thinkers" and ho different they are in the "West"?

---In the West, the system of democracy evolved out of its culture.---

Nope. thats a part of lifestyle. wich btw very popular in China.

--By the time democracy became a system of government, like in Great Britain, the people had already understood and practiced civil rights and democracy as part of their lives.---

gosh.. spoiler: you are not even close to the truth. i give you a tip go to the shool and learn about.

---The system of democracy is an institutionization of this culture that everybody understood.---

again BS.

---In the non-Western world, time and time again we see democracy shoehorned into different countries where the populations did not have the cultural foundation to practice democracy.---

LOL. what a BIG BS.

---Exercising the democratic responsibilities by individuals, particularly government officials, is more important than the system of elections, independent courts, separation of federal and local jurisdictions.---

another retarted BS.

---Without the basic awareness of the society's citizens is crucial to the success of a democracy.---

This awarnes is called practical critism.

---India, post-Soviet Russia, the Philippines, and many Sout American nations all practice democracy, but they all suffered from rampant corruption by government officials, particularly local officials.---

sorry but i do not understand your point here. what do you mean exsactly?

---In fact, democracy often exacerbates the problems because the rich can easy control the media to get their favorite candidates elected.---

Paranoia Joe is speacking here.

--The federal government is powerless to punish the corrupt local officials due to the separation of power.--

Thats a job of courts and police.

---Mainland China is walking the path of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.---

BIG BS. Beside its a long acsepted fact that those 3 countries are Part of "The WEST".

---Lacking the intrinsic cultural nurishment for democracy that the West has, China chose to develop its economy first, giving the poor more wealth and the opportunity for education.---

BS. China chose nothing. Communist party chose it for China. Communist learned that if will proceed like in Mao time then China will colapse like Soviet Union. So chinese comunist desided to drop own idiology away and to start a walk to a millitary dictature with wild capitalism economy.

---When people become wealthier and emulate the lifestyle of the West, they also pick up the democratic culture of the West.---

BS. In China people will not became wealthier. They will became racistic nationalists with massive imperialistic indoctrination.

---When a critical mass of people possess such awareness, the system can then start to take shape and the way it is supposed to work.---

Already here. but it doesnt work because "China is big and has million of paramilitary police"

Anonymous:

--To tell you the truth, that I hate the current government of China more than you guys here. My family, my grandpa and my father were persecuted by our own government, sitting in prison for years, torturing, my father now is US citizen, and he still hates communist party more than anything, and he loves US.---

typical idiot. "what i dont love i do hate it"

Fan of Bao:

Hoping for "Blue Skies"

"Beijing banned more than a quarter million high-emission vehicles from its roads on Tuesday, part of a drive to curb pollution ahead of the Olympics.

Despite worries over pollution and chronic traffic problems, Beijing environmental protection bureau statistics showed 13 more blue-sky days in the first six months than a year earlier, the best figure in nine years."

http://www.china.org.cn/olympics/news/2008-07/02/content_15922169.htm

Wang:

To tell you the truth, that I hate the current government of China more than you guys here. My family, my grandpa and my father were persecuted by our own government, sitting in prison for years, torturing, my father now is US citizen, and he still hates communist party more than anything, and he loves US.

But I cannot stand that some of you people setting Chinese together with communist party, and openly discriminating Chinese, not the government. Your view is a racist view, not a political view.

We as Chinese working for a better government, we don't lack people; but what we can't accept that some outsiders using our weakness to play their politics for their own benefit.

I was marching in 1989, but those young students mixed with local thugs and backed by a few foreign immature political persons, could only start a march and turned it into a turmoil, that none of student union could stop it for weeks, in the end, forced the army to be on street with each soldier only allow to have one bullet, students died, young soldiers died, both 20 years around age, and then all these outsiders ran back to their own countries and leaving Chinese died, our nation in shame, those outsiders they don't love China, they don't know China, they are not Chinese, they are not loyal to friendship with Chinese, only a few like Mr. John Pomfred. They could only do is discriminating Chinese by our weakness, when they stir a conflict and turmoil with any reason whether in Tibet, Beijing, Taiwan...., anyway, it is only Chinese will die, and then they can sit on their chair laughing, keep discriminating, that how bad is our government, how uneducated our people, so this way they become a better people than the rest of the world.
Too bad, your 'perfect government' is getting old like my dad, and I am younger, stronger, getting better as Chinese.
Before I read your post, I only felt my hatred toward my own government, but after reading you guys' discriminating words, I am forced by you to be a nationalist, and my American wife loves me.

carryanne:

I have come across an article that can help people see China more accurately. I think everyone should read it because it exposes certain facets of the communist party’s ways of censoring reality and justice. If we do not hear about this from dissidents willing to risk everything, then the CCP would effectively have repressed all knowledge of it’s crimes and would get away with it’s absolute abuse of power over China and people of the world.

The article is titled: The Last Hero of Tiananmen
by Philip P. Pan
How an aging doctor became the conscience of China.

As linked to on my blog, http://nomoreccp.wordpress.com/

Actually this story if from Philip Pans new book: OUT OF MAO’S SHADOW, The Struggle for the Soul of a New China

Wang:

To Dear Anonymous:
You are so funny! You forget you don't even have bones, not even soft bone!

From Anonymous:
"sit! brave dog! who is chinese dog here? yes you are chinese dog here! brave chinese dog! here is your bone.."

Wang:

To American Pride:

As Chinese, we are not going to become rich and filthy as soon as Americans, because our policy is not like US that seeks the benefit of their OWN people round everywhere in the world.

As American, they are so proud that God is on their side so they can rob from the world by their military dressing the cloth as world police, holding the banner of Democracy, human rights while tearing other countries apart, so their oil business entering behind and pumping the third world countries like a cheap whole, for $1 per gallon, and they say "liberty march on!" but actually they never tell the world that their liberty is marching on with their guns and missiles.

How proud they should be that luring their young naive people into their military forces by promising them a bankrupt educational college fund, (it is more like you go shooting people outside then I pay you with a better life when you come back), while their political system is no democracy or republic, but oil business and other big fat ass organizations control their system and their people, and their screwed media is never free speech, because money is stacked into their throat, when every time there is some important news or issues would rip off another cover, they print Britney Spear to draw away people's attention,

what is so proud to fight every unjust war? what is proud to set your military forces everywhere in the world and never get out? what is proud to have your untrained soldiers to torture the POW of Iraq war? what is proud when your government betrayed you and your sons? what is proud being a 'human right' banner carrier torture other people? what is proud that the whole world people dislike you? what is proud that you being American but never know your government works not for you but for some big companies? how proud you guys shot your own presidents and Doc. Martin Luther King? how proud you drop atomic bombs? how proud you guys illegally dragged American Japanese into labor camp by their look and race? how proud only your men could vote 100 year ago? how proud that black brothers were chained here to slave for your cotton? how proud 200 years ago land of American filled by native Indians and now all cleansed to almost no more? how proud you guys give Indians your casinos to shut their mouth and abandon their true religion, how proud you guys shooting off the Mormons...

Democracy, Freedom, Human Rights, Free Religion...
to you guys is just a illusion, and if you forget your own history and don't see your present matter clearly, you are easily to think that you are proud.

Maybe you should be proud for your stupidness, only in US, people using their freedom of speech to spread their hate, as of this year, Democrats present their leaders, Hilary and Obama, you never lack of any discriminating speech on women and black, have you read this site, how many you guys openly discriminating? Did Washingtonpost did anything, no, it is freedom of speech, you guys don't even know what is freedom of speech.

And your international policy is that you must live with an enemy, you guys can't even live without an enemy.

Who supported Ben Laden 20/30 years ago? Who supported Saddam Hussein? Why your used-to-be friends turned against you? You should be so proud the US government seeking their own benefit everywhere around the world, and now being an American cannot roam as you want to in Middle East and Africa.

Proud of what? bombing innocent people? tearing other countries apart? Sending your young soldiers to die? Turning your vague belief for economical benefit of your own people? No wonder all the developing countries rather fight civil war, would not want your government's 'helps'. Simply, They don't TRUST you, proud American.

Print my post, frame it, and hang it in your bed room, My brother, as a good gift from me.

JiaMing:

Mr. Promfet,
I must say that Western thinkers like yourself are giving the system too much credit for building a just and properous society. In the West, the system of democracy evolved out of its culture. By the time democracy became a system of government, like in Great Britain, the people had already understood and practiced civil rights and democracy as part of their lives. The system of democracy is an institutionization of this culture that everybody understood. In the non-Western world, time and time again we see democracy shoehorned into different countries where the populations did not have the cultural foundation to practice democracy.

Exercising the democratic responsibilities by individuals, particularly government officials, is more important than the system of elections, independent courts, separation of federal and local jurisdictions. Without the basic awareness of the society's citizens is crucial to the success of a democracy.

India, post-Soviet Russia, the Philippines, and many Sout American nations all practice democracy, but they all suffered from rampant corruption by government officials, particularly local officials. In fact, democracy often exacerbates the problems because the rich can easy control the media to get their favorite candidates elected. The federal government is powerless to punish the corrupt local officials due to the separation of power.

Mainland China is walking the path of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. Lacking the intrinsic cultural nurishment for democracy that the West has, China chose to develop its economy first, giving the poor more wealth and the opportunity for education. When people become wealthier and emulate the lifestyle of the West, they also pick up the democratic culture of the West. When a critical mass of people possess such awareness, the system can then start to take shape and the way it is supposed to work.

wz:

Whether the girl committed suicide or not, it's fairly clear now that the three teenagers involved were not related to the local big-wigs.

You relate the Weng'an case to the traditional 'blue sky' syndrome. For me, it reflects a more present problem, namely that local populace had so many complaints about the government that their anger often erupt on a scale that far outweighs the case at hand seemingly justifies.

BTw, I wonder how many of the 30,000 people were protestors, and how many were on-lookers.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

comments posted on the public security ministry’s website on Friday, Mr Yang said: “As the Beijing Olympics draw daily closer, all kinds of anti-China and hostile forces are further intensifying their activities to create disturbances and carry out sabotage by any means.”

Meng Hongwei, another public security vice-minister, separately this week identified what he called the three main threats to the Games: international terrorists, separatists pushing for independence of China’s Xinjiang region, and “serious crimes”.

While Beijing has long seen the Games as a national “coming-out party”, the tone of much official discussion has stressed the need to maintain order.

China on Friday barred outspoken Hong Kong pro-democracy legislator Leung Kwok-hung from a group making a goodwill visit to earthquake-stricken Sichuan Province because of suspicions he might use the opportunity for political protest.

Mr Leung denied planning any protest and said the ban was “unpardonable”.

China has also recently introduced tougher identity checks for foreigners, an anti-narcotics crackdown in cities holding Olympic events and the installation of anti-aircraft missiles near Beijing venues


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/22eb9a82-49f7-11dd-891a-000077b07658.html

JPa:

To pomfret:
I think this time you are only half wrong and half right. True, all Politics is Local in China. True again, Chinese are more longing the “blue sky” instead of western style of governing system. However, the riots last weekend in Guizhou province involving an estimated 30,000 people were indeed related to the thugs and goons in local governments, instead of that a girl was raped and killed by people related to local government bigwigs. The local party boss and Mayer were both fired by the governor. “The real reasons for the scale and violence of the protests were the suppressed anger at the behavior of local officials. He (i.e. the governor) cited the demeanor of local government officers in denying residents the economic benefits of mining (read, large scale corruption) and the use of force during the resettlement of migrants and forced demolitions to make way for development projects” (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1820345,00.html). This is in agreement with more and more news reports coming out of China, including those interviewing the girl’s boyfriend (a poor farmer’s son)and her family.

Proud Anti-American:

There are so much fear about terror attack on American soil that the Home Land Security Chief has issued yellow to red alert constantly. Border crossing is restricted. Foreigners without proper documents, especially Arab-looking people are arrested and deported to countries labelled as Human Right Abusers, to be tortured. The rights of citizens are constantly violated without proper oversight. WOW. What a country.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

The Olympics are threatened by sabotage and unrest, a senior Chinese security official said in remarks reported on Friday, as authorities sacked officials after a riot in which a police headquarters was set ablaze.

The trouble in Guizhou province in the southwest on Saturday erupted despite China's determination to quell any signs of unrest ahead of next month's Games in Beijing.

Vice Minister of Public Security Yang Huanning told police officials that the Games would be a target for forces hostile to China's ruling Communist Party.

"The current international and domestic situation is full of complications," Yang told the meeting, according to the People's Public Security News.

"Especially as the Beijing Olympic Games draw near, a range of anti-China forces and hostile forces are striving by any means and redoubling efforts to engage in troublemaking and sabotage."

Yang, recently appointed to his post and called an "anti-terror expert" by official media, issued orders at a separate meeting to minimise the flow of aggrieved citizens journeying to Beijing to press petitions over official abuses, the China News Service reported.

China has taken sweeping steps to prevent any protests or violence during the Games, which begin on Aug. 8. The restive regions of Tibet and Xinjiang have been a particular target.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK356706.htm

To: American Pride:

That is why I found trashing anything and everything American, is so much fun. Down USA. Americans are the worst kind of human.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

President Bush on Monday lifted restrictions to allow firearms to be shipped to China for U.S. athletes competing in shooting events at the Olympic Games.

Bush also cleared the way for sending mobile high-definition television cameras embedded with military-grade gyroscopes to China for use by American filming crews.

Bush said the shipments will be approved on a case-by-case basis, and the equipment will be returned to the United States after the Games.

The restrictions are in place to bar the shipment of munitions and sensitive military equipment to China.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i50ytjOIbJybMFpwRoHLEpKuS8pwD91KLNM80

American pride:

To discusting chinese pig Wang:

aehhmm. Can it bee that you already forgot that this is a posting in an american blog of an AMERICAN newspaper?

Anonymous:

Wang:
--Bottom line is

What?

---Tibet is part of China as other 21 region.

Here is a little geographical and historical education for you:

China is a Part of PRC.(Peoples Republic of China)
Tibet is a Part of PRC.(Peoples Republic of China)
Tibet is not a part of China.

---For those who disagree, you may pick your choice to pay the price of your own life in China happily, or seek another country who would take you, so you may raise your voice faraway from China.---

how about you stop to tell other people in a forign countries what they have to do?

---How we solve our own problem is not concerned with you, go ask Mr. John Pomfred.---

actualy it is. because chinese bastrads are coming to our countries for asylum and better life. We want not to pay chinese nazi arrogance with our money and peace. We will concern about how you are going solve "problems".

---For those separatists, die dreaming in China or eslewhere, because you can't do nothing about it, we are not a weak nation as 100 or 50 years ago, while you still have breathe, unleash all your air, after another 20 or 30 or 50 years, China is going to be better and stronger with our young generations, where or what you would be, a handful dust, not even going to be recorded by history. Your life and dream and belief is just vanity.---

Blablabla. Sieg Heil my chinese nazi fellow!

Anonymous:

---Nazi is history, But Anti-Chinese is currently presented by you racist people.
For you dreadful thing that do even have courage to tell world who you are, coward, why don't you change your name on your passport to Anonymous, just a funny suggestion.---


"sit! brave dog! who is chinese dog here? yes you are chinese dog here! brave chinese dog! here is your bone.."

Hua Lon:

Dear Wang

Are you a Chinese? Why you hate China so much? Why you hate Chinese so much?
What is your nationality? Are you American? English? French?
What did China do to you that you have so much hatred toward us?
Please tell us your nationality and your birth place and education background so I may heal your sickness.
It is dreadful to see your Chinese name "Ho Lin" being an other people's puppy barking at your own people. How much money you get paid from their anti-Chinese fund?

Wang:

Bottom line is

Tibet is part of China as other 21 region. Anywhere in China raises a uprising for whatever reason will be put down by military force, June 4th, Lhasa are the examples. Chinese Army is the guarantee of peace and unity of China.

For those who disagree, you may pick your choice to pay the price of your own life in China happily, or seek another country who would take you, so you may raise your voice faraway from China.

How we solve our own problem is not concerned with you, go ask Mr. John Pomfred.

For those separatists, die dreaming in China or eslewhere, because you can't do nothing about it, we are not a weak nation as 100 or 50 years ago, while you still have breathe, unleash all your air, after another 20 or 30 or 50 years, China is going to be better and stronger with our young generations, where or what you would be, a handful dust, not even going to be recorded by history. Your life and dream and belief is just vanity.

Anti-Anonymous:

Nazi is history, But Anti-Chinese is currently presented by you racist people.
For you dreadful thing that do even have courage to tell world who you are, coward, why don't you change your name on your passport to Anonymous, just a funny suggestion.

Wang:

Dear Ho Lin:

Are you a Chinese? Why you hate China so much? Why you hate Chinese so much?
What is your nationality? Are you American? English? French?
What did China do to you that you have so much hatred toward us?
Please tell us your nationality and your birth place and education background so I may heal your sickness.
It is dreadful to see your Chinese name "Ho Lin" being an other people's puppy barking at your own people. How much money you get paid from their anti-Chinese fund?

washington:

hi,I am a Chinese guy.What you have posted,I agree with you very much.And I quote your article in my blog.This is my website

http://loveyougentle.net78.net/flying/

To "Ronald":

u said "The so-called liberal democracy is intriguely full of corruption and inefficiency. They would not acknowledge it. They continue to push the system as if it is the only way out of poverty and corruption."

Well, according to the 2008 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) highlighted by "cool_head", China is ranked 73.

But the United States is ranked 20th, just below Germany, Ireland, Japan and France. Besides, Britain occupies the 13th spot.

Anonymous:

Ronald:

yep.. we already know chinese nazi propaganda..

Ronald:

The problems with Westerners:
1. They think they are the world, and only their opinion matters.
2. The only viable political system is liberal democracy even though some scholars in the western has started to say that the end of that system is near.
3. The so-called liberal democracy is intriguely full of corruption and inefficiency. They would not acknowledge it. They continue to push the system as if it is the only way out of poverty and corruption.
4. There is no absolute democracy and human right. The standard can be different from country to country. Using the Western standard as a norm is hypocratic.

the great anon:

Firing automatic weapons from a Segway: good idea, or not?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13908_3-9984127-59.html

:) :)

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

An envoy for the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader said Friday that the latest round of talks with China were "one of the most difficult sessions" held so far, but that he will return for more discussions after the Beijing Olympics.

Lodi Gyari said during the meetings he countered China's accusations that the Dalai Lama planned to sabotage next month's Olympics and was behind anti-government protests that rocked Tibet and other Tibetan-inhabited areas of China in March.

"Such baseless accusations make the Chinese government really look ridiculous in the eyes of the world," Gyari said. "This time they realized that labeling his Holiness being responsible for the present disturbances in Tibet and accusing him of sabotaging the Olympics is something that no one buys."

Gyari called the discussions "one of the most difficult sessions" the two sides have had, but said they agreed to meet again after the Olympics.

"I told my Chinese counterparts very candidly that if there is not seriousness on their part it is almost pointless for us to waste each other's time," Gyari told reporters at the New Delhi airport Friday before returning to Dharmsala, the base for Tibet's government-in-exile.

Two days of meetings were held this week in Beijing between Chinese officials and the Dalai Lama's envoys.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h99vAT8gsZnDb-i3szSZTkFQVswAD91MU4Q82

Me too a commy thug:

Kind of like the Algae that's smothering Tsing Tao huh? Didn't they promised Blue Sky and Water? It's kind of green eh? Like the athletes faces! Broken promises, like their broken democracy and human rights!

Ronald:

The latest event about Tibet:
DL high ranked officials were invited to Beijing for a former talk with one of member of ruling circle. DL was so happy that he announced there is finally a break-through. He hoped the recent riot in Tibet and condemnation from the West will finally bent the will of Beijing. Even the notorious French President said that he might attend the opening ceremony in Beijing if there is a break-through in talk.
Reality is that nobody in and outside China cares whether the French President would show up or not. 85% of internet bloggers in China said if he ever shows his face in China, he will be greeted with eggs and tomato.
In the meeting, DL representives was given a lecture of how to behave within the framework of Chinese constitution. It is wrong that the Tibetan movement has become a Western obession. Western activitist outnumbers the entire population by 4 to 1. If DL wants a next meeting, he should get TYC under control for instigating anymore violence in Tibet. Good luck for that. TYC is funded and controlled by Tibetans born and raised in US. Rumor has it that NED was funding and responsible for training of TYC movement.
A British University who gave a honorable Doctor degree to DL, has written a letter of apology to the Chinese government for that event. The reason was a huge drop of attendance by Chinese students at the university.
According to French Embassy in Beijing, tourist visa application from Chinese citizen has dropped by 83% recently. I guessed the French Embassador has to apology for the behavior of their President as well. LOL

Blue Sky is Gray!:

Bahhh! Mooo! Feed me. Feed me!

Boa means covering up!

I'm a Commy Thug:

Democracy take time and need to adjust slowly based on society maturity level.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For every act of protesting or media exposure, which are the necessary steps towards progress for any maturing democracy society. US is still marching towards that goal after all these years. And for good or bad, every re-action or consequential outrage would dragged a reluctant society closer to the idealistic society that we are fighting for.

In China however, CCP Thugs are smothering China to death.

Where in a society that doesn't know how a true democracy should operates or what human rights really can do for them, Big Brother keep your head underwater for as long as possible without drowning you to death.
Then they let them go and tell you must stop being a naughty monkeys and behave like the chicken and sheep that were appertained by default. They'll tell you Big brother is merciful, and punished you for your own good.

Like any criminal organizations, the boss' never touch the knifes and guns, their just give out the execution orders and then showing up at your funereal to give condolences and recruiting your sons and daughters to kill other naughty monkeys.

One of the revered Chinese culture trait is called ren(忍), endurance. Like the sheep and the cow, people will 'endure' as long as big brother keep feeding them grass and the slaughter house is out of sight.

Anonymous:

---It take United State 100 years from the birth of democracy to repression of black people. and it take another 50 years for United State to have the possibility of Black president.

here we go my russian hacker.:

1: Democracy is a political system. Democracy worked well for USA very well from begining. only problem with blacks was that they were excluded from democracy.

2: In a democracy it ABSOLUTLY DOESNT MATTER when people are black or white. So black president were possible back in the first years of USA. But because in that time black people were excluded from democratic process... sh_it happens.

(why at the fuc_ck must i teach those idiots such simple things here? why they dont move their ar_ses back to the school?)

---Democracy just not working when the society is not mature enough.

Back again. Democracy works very well everytime. Problem is wich parts of society are involvet in it and wich not. (For exsample many children and prisoners are not involved democracy system. or another exsample; in USA you must register yourself into voting table. what do not work for immigrants wihtout american citizen (around 30 million people))

---China just coming out of poverty and cultural revolution. It will take time for the society to be mature---


Thats another BS. figure why by yourself. Aside that many ex-soviet or ex-colonial countries were in a worse situation then China after Mao.

Shawn:

my comments was censored, cannot post over here. sigh!

Anonymous:

cool_head:
__If you believe in the theory that democracy is the solution for China, look at India - a democracy that is even more corrupt than China. Democracy works well in developed countries, but the theory almost never worked well in any developing countries, go figure.

(idiotmode on)

democracy cant be corrupt. people can be corrupt.
(idiot mode off)

aside that India isnt more corrupt than China. amnd China isnt democratic state. so you cant compare China and India.

Democracy works fine for all developing countries. Stop to post your dumb and uneducated sh_it here.

Shawn:

My comments were held by the filter, I don't know which word I used draw such a "censorship", have to post seperately.
--------------------------

I've been kept working to defend China when peoples in the west criticized the media freedom and censorship in China. My excuse was certain censorship is necessary and it could bring the mass to a proper direction, rather than been mis-directed by some people intentional, like the CNN version of Tibet riot.

But somethings make me doubt if my belief is correct. One of the recent thing happened as discussed in this topic.

Steve:

Democracy take time and need to adjust slowly based on society maturity level.

You cannot just offer "Democracy or Die".

It take United State 100 years from the birth of democracy to repression of black people. and it take another 50 years for United State to have the possibility of Black president.

Democracy just not working when the society is not mature enough. China just coming out of poverty and cultural revolution. It will take time for the society to be mature

Steve:

Democracy take time and need to adjust slowly based on society maturity level.

You cannot just offer "Democracy or Die".

It take United State 100 years from the birth of democracy to repression of black people. and it take another 50 years for United State to have the possibility of Black president.

Democracy just not working when the society is not mature enough. China just coming out of poverty and cultural revolution. It will take time for the society to be mature

Steve:

Democracy take time and need to adjust slowly based on society maturity level.

You cannot just offer "Democracy or Die".

It take United State 100 years from the birth of democracy to repression of black people. and it take another 50 years for United State to have the possibility of Black president.

Democracy just not working when the society is not mature enough. China just coming out of poverty and cultural revolution. It will take time for the society to be mature

greg:

Chinese president and prime minister and other famous leaders or some senior officials are morally good.They are all clean.And China doesn't lack in laws,the point is China has weak control of their officials around the country,from province governors to the lowest employees of the local governments.It means the central government is good but the local governments are bad,though some are good.That is why Chinese support their central government and important leaders,president and prime miniter.

But Chinese central government is usually criticized for their weak control of their officials.Chinese hate corruption extremely.If Chinese leaders can eliminate corruption and make their officials of all ranks obey laws and professional ethics,China will be more peaceful and stable politically.Then there is no need for central leaders to be worried about security problems.In fact the central government had made effort to do this for many years but it never succeed in addressing corruption problem.Their methods are so uneffective!China really needs radical reforms in all ways.

cool_head:

To back up my statement: in 2008 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), China ranked 73 and India ranked 74.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/India_ranked_74_on_corruption_index/articleshow/3167344.cms

cool_head:

If you believe in the theory that democracy is the solution for China, look at India - a democracy that is even more corrupt than China. Democracy works well in developed countries, but the theory almost never worked well in any developing countries, go figure.

Wang Hua:

This is most objective article we ever read from Washington Post about China! We always trust central government more than local government. President Hu Jiantao and Premier Wen Jiabao are immensely popular among 1.3 billion of Chinese people from all sectors. We really love them. During this deadly earthquake, they have truly shown the high moral character and competence of leadership. They have done everything they can to save people's life, which is truly remarkable. It is fair to say that they are on the same par as the best leaders of any government in the whole world.

Of course, our society is far from perfect. We hate those ugly, corrupted, and incompetent local officials and cops, too. If you understand Chinese, you will see many posts and comments in lots of Chinese web sites which openly denounce those corrupted officials. We are very confident that our central government will have more time to smash those despicable corrupted officials after the Olympics.

Ho Lin:

For guy:

--I think there is no any good solution for China governing body currently,--

solution: Acsept your failture and do it like soviets in Gorbashjev time. To force people living in a state wich cant exist without massive millitary and politicaly pressure will make things only worse.

--the first 50 years of 20th century, China was in war period,

gosh dude wich fu_cking school made your education? Peoples republic of China was in a wars until 80'ens.

---1.3 billion people, it's very difficult to make them live in peace, but every country must be in a peace state to grow and change and develop, it is a time thing. Freedom is not free, people do need to fight for it; But peace is also needed to be protected by a strong government body. And Development takes time, as cooking a dish, growing a tree, educating a child to become a man.--

SIEG HEIL MY FUEHRER!!

aside that you are a dumb nazi you still lack understanding of political, national development and geographical knowledge.

--I think China is going to develop better in future,

do not see it until now.

---she had deep culture,

(idiotlanguage mode on)
she cant have culture. she is a big chunk of the planet. People do have culture. China is not people.
(idiotlanguage mode off)

--nowadays Chinese need to learn from, because majority Chinese are talking loud, fighting for seat and unmannered.

another BS.

---It seems their ancestors abandoned them.

Yeahh sure.. and you are the best exsample for it!

Ps. chinese should pray like syphilitic prostitute that their minorities dont start a payback when they will learn the truth about chinese colonialism and rule back in the past.

Wang Hua:

This is most objective article we ever read from Washington Post about China! We always trust central government more than local government. President Hu Jiantao and Premier Wen Jiabao are immensely popular among 1.3 billion of Chinese people from all sectors. We really love them. During this deadly earthquake, they have truly shown the high moral character and competence of leadership. They have done everything they can to save people's life, which is truly remarkable. It is fair to say that they are on the same bar as the best leaders of any government in the whole world.

Of course, our society is far from perfect. We hate those ugly, corrupted, and incompetent local officials and cops, too. If you understand Chinese, you will see many posts and comments in lots of Chinese web sites which openly denounce those corrupted officials. We are very confident that our central government will have more time to smash those despicable corrupted officials after the Olympics.

Peace:

China hopes to see Mongolia maintain stability

"more than 300 others injured in Mongolia's political turmoil on Tuesday, sparking a four-day state of emergency declared by President Nambariin Enkhbayar.

The riots were a result of alleged fraudulent practices in Sunday's parliamentary elections"

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/04/content_8485957.htm

Ronald:

According to the reporter from Ming-pao, the police reports showed the following event:
The boys was showing off to the girls doing push up on the bridge. All of a sudden, the boys heard the would-be-dead girl, said "Watch me, Good bye. I am going to jump." Then she was in the water. Nobody of the victim family believes that story. Was it the truth or not. Nobody knows. It is just like the Kennedy assination and 9/11. So many rumors and so many theories. You can believe what you want. Why would they blame the police on this ? I cannot understand this in a million year.

Ronald:

According to the reporter from Ming-pao, the police reports showed the following event:
The boys was showing off to the girls doing push up on the bridge. All of a sudden, the boys heard the would-be-dead girl, said "Watch me, Good bye. I am going to jump." Then she was in the water. Nobody of the victim family believes that story. Was it the truth or not. Nobody knows. It is just like the Kennedy assination and 9/11. So many rumors and so many theories. You can believe what you want. Why would they blame the police on this ? I cannot understand this in a million year.

Ronald:

According to the reporter from Ming-pao, the police reports showed the following event:
The boys was showing off to the girls doing push up on the bridge. All of a sudden, the boys heard the would-be-dead girl, said "Watch me, Good bye. I am going to jump." Then she was in the water. Nobody of the victim family believes that story. Was it the truth or not. Nobody knows. It is just like the Kennedy assination and 9/11. So many rumors and so many theories. You can believe what you want. Why would they blame the police on this ? I cannot understand this in a million year.

Guy:

people, lets just ignore Anonymous, it seems that he/she just wants some attention.

I think there is no any good solution for China governing body currently, maybe after another 50 years they will get better, comparing China 50 years ago to now, she is gradually developing into a better state.
the first 50 years of 20th century, China was in war period,
and next 50 years China stepped into a open door economical development after some of the curved road of political struggle,
and now China's target is concentrate on the foundation of economical development,
then if China could pass that state, surely education development will be picked up after food and job crisis are solved, then majority Chinese would improve their country's political system by that time most government officials are better educated, and commons are better educated, China will naturally grow into a democracy country.

From a bystander's view, China currently does have a lot of problems, such as population causes food and job and environment... and political system that is not balanced, and very weak to protect herself from corruption. But China is doing the right thing, that she first seeks a peace environment to develop needs, when she is filled then she would seek to grow a better system.

1.3 billion people, it's very difficult to make them live in peace, but every country must be in a peace state to grow and change and develop, it is a time thing. Freedom is not free, people do need to fight for it; But peace is also needed to be protected by a strong government body. And Development takes time, as cooking a dish, growing a tree, educating a child to become a man.

About Tibet issue, I have a US printed world map in my hand, it is within the boundary of China, but I only hope China could deal the local uprising more carefully.

I understand the last two or three centuries the world was in a colonization state, but that is history, any generation should not hold other for the deed of history, and we are more educated and open-minded than our former generations, whether colonize period, WWI, WWII, we all should not carry and pass down the burden our governments.

I think China is going to develop better in future, she had deep culture, history, talents that nowadays Chinese need to learn from, because majority Chinese are talking loud, fighting for seat and unmannered. It seems their ancestors abandoned them.

Ronald:

A detailed chronicle of the event by Ming-pao.
June 21, 2008, 8:00 pm the girl was invited by her female classmate for a night out. Then came two boys from a near-by village who are sons of farmers.
At 11:21 p.m. the classmate phoned the brother of the dead girl that the girl is going to sleep over at her house and is not coming home that night.
June 22, 0:29 a.m., the female classmate called her brother again, telling him that she was drowned.
June 22, 0:27 p.m. Police station received a phone call about the incident.
June 22, 3:44 p.m. the body of the girl was fished out of the river by the relatives.(According to the girl's relative), According to the police, the girl's body was fished out by the fire department.
June 22, 7:40 a.m. , Police started the investigation
June 22, 10:00 a.m. the main suspects, the three companions of the night was released with no charge.
June 22 8: p.m. preliminary medical report said that the girl was drowned. No crime has been committed.
June 25, the girl's uncle went to the police station to compain about the investigation. After a heated argument with one policeman, he left. Later, according to the uncle he was beaten at the entrance of a near-by building. Was it a robbery ? The county was well-known for similiar crime.
June 26, the relatives of the girl went to the police station to settle the dispute and agreed to sign a settlement agreement on June 28. This seems to be a very odd to an outsiders especially westerners. Why would a settlement agreement is needed. I do not have an answer.

June 28, 4:oo p.m. a large group of people around 300 started protesting around the town square with big banners. The size of group grew as on-lookers joined in. AT 4:30 p.m. the group gathered in front of the police station. At 8:00 p.m., riot broke out.
According to the police, the relative insisted on $500k compensation from the family of the three companions.

A similiar situation happened that involved a hospital. A boy died in a county hospital and relatives wanted large sum of money for compensation. The hospital refused stating that it was a natural death and the hospital was not responsible for it. Hours later, a large crowd gathered outside the hospital and later, the hospital was trashed. Doctors and nurses were beaten. Police was accused of arriving late and cover-up for the instigators.
Another incident:
A group of farmers protested by sit-in on the farm-land destined to be used as a warehouse for state-owned company. The protest went on for three years with no result. On one day, a group of outsiders jumped out of taxi cabs, attacked the sit-in farmers with knives and sticks, and then left without a trace. The developer was the main suspect. However, he insisted that he knew nothing about it. He said his hope of ever getting a settlement after the incident, is nil now. Why would he do something so stupid after three years. One interesting twist after this, happens when hords of outsiders including local and western journalists decended on the village. It was so annoying that the villagers decided to set up a picket line outside the village to stop outsiders from coming in. One provincial member of parliment along with a Guardian reporter went to the village together. A scuffle broke out and nobody managed to get in. According to western media, there was corruption to the core and corrupted officals send out thugs to beat up outsiders. The Provincial member of parliment was killed and his eyes taken out. Surprisingly, the member of parliment showed up in news conference couple of days later with a black eye. Guarian immediately recalled the reporter and issued an apology.
The conclusion of my stories, is the followings:
1. How can you solve this complicated situations with local election. The so-called democracy being pushed by westerns like a used car salesman is a joke .
2. Do not make judgement without knowing the details and stop associate everything with democracy and free election. Democracy is the most over-rate political system in the world. Period.
3. Do not believe anything said in the media, especially the Western Media. They are all liars with motives behind it.

Ying Yang:

We are just beginning to have more information or more disinformation on what happened.

Power comes most of the time with corruption. Wetter the authority is ''democratically'' elected or not, wetter the power comes from top to bottom or bottom to top; they are all the same and allot of the officials thinking is:

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING; JUST DON'T GET CAUGHT DOING IT

There are not much societies in this world protected against that.

It is not confirmed yet who will pay for that poor girl’s death but somebody will. I just hope it is the one(s) that really took that girl’s life.

Ronald:

We can draw a parrallel between this and Tibet. Most of the people are on-lookers watching a show. According to one researcher from Ming-pao, the incident started when the classmates of the young girl along with the relatives from the same village went to the police station demanding a more detailed investigation. They were blocked by the police at entrance of the police station. The number of people was around 300- 500 people including almost the entire village of the dead girl. This happens very often in rural China especially involving ethic minority. There was scuffle between relatives and student and police for an hour. As more and more people gathers, the situation became more and more volatile. Then police became retreating back to the police station and some people on the outside became throwing stone at the station. Nobody knew who threw the first stone. It sparked the riot and people started burning police cars and destroying furnitures. I think all in all, it faired far better than the LA riot. According to the police, the relative of the girl demand $500k compensation from her companions who happened to be sons and daughters of farmers themselves. Nobody knows how the girl died. We should send in an independent team, investigate and make a movie out of it. Anything for a buck. I hope some of you can read Chinese. Here is the link.
http://www.yzzk.com/cfm/Content_Archive.cfm?Channel=ae&Path=2348282692/27ae3.cfm

Anonymous:

In my opinion, George is partially right though. China is not and was not a purely communist states.
---------------------------------------------
NOONE COUNTRY IS AND WAS COMMUNIST STATE!

PRC IS A STATE OF COMMUNISTS.

WE TALKED ABOUT "NATURE". WHAT MEANS IDIOLOGY AND LIFESTYLE.

HAHAHA:

The top two police and security officials in this county are sacked. (Today's news).

HAHAHA:

The top two police and security officials in this county are sacked. (Today's news).

gg:

In my opinion, George is partially right though. China is not and was not a purely communist states. And communism is more in terms of economy, in which case China is clearly not currently. I would say China is more of an autocratic or authoritarian type of government, like what it was for many years. They prefer more stability than freedom. Often this type of government surpress their people and media in the name of peace, prosperity and stability. And in the middle of all this, confucianism was a big pillar. It has been used or misused to make the central government stable, throughout China's history.

great dude of haked victims:

---What ppl still fail to understand about China is its confucian nature.---

That is BIG BullSh_it. first off all PRC is a big country with very different ethnical groups, nationalities and many different cultures and lifestyles. After Peoples Republic of China was founded whole country was forced to follow a comunist nature. This did not change until now. Something like "confucian nature" do not exsit in China.

PS.

One helpful tip for you: Stop to post a same sh_it again and again around the internet. It is borring, it is useless and misinform people about China..

George:

What ppl still fail to understand about China is its confucian nature. Liberalism was rejected long ago in china because liberalism had nothing in common with confucianism. Confucianism = Collectivism. Confucianism is the foundation of all chinese Moral values. Unlike you who draw your moral principles from the Bible or liberalism, and hope that the chinese either do so too or will do so, they do not. They draw their moral principles from Confucianism. Just like an evangelical believes that the bible is above all other rules and is the ultimate set of rules, they too innately feel the same way about confucianism. The Communists have not really changed the rules they just changed the name of confucianism to socialism.

Perhaps the ppl refuse to criticize the central government because they are afraid, I don't doubt that some do. Or perhaps more likely they refuse to criticize the government because they fear the ethical backlash that they will face. For doing so will be viewed as immoral and unethical by the general public. I cannot stress how important morality is to win public opinion in China, and that to succesfully argue anything a strong morality argument must be made. And what is the moral in the Chinese case, an individual's human rights, fairness, justice, NO. The only moral is the "common good" or more specifically the interests of the nation to become strong and powerfull, there are no other winning arguments in Chinese morality. The chinese view a good government as one that accomplishese this "common good". Against a good government only constructive criticism is acceptable as moral. In today's China criticism of local governments qualifies as or at least looks more like constructive criticism.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

Up to 30,000 people were involved in the protest, which was prompted by a controversial police report on the death of Li Shufen last month. Police concluded the 17-year-old drowned, but her family and relatives contend she was raped and killed.

The protest turned violent and rioters mobbed government office buildings. More than 150 police and protesters were injured, but no deaths were reported. About 160 offices and more than 40 vehicles were torched.

Police believe 134 people committed the destruction, and later took 59 into custody. Currently, 16 are in detention.

Earlier, provincial Communist Party chief Shi Zongyuan said the incident started from a simple reason, but was used and incited by a few people with ulterior motives. However, he added there must have been deep-rooted reasons behind the violent protest.

He criticized local officials, saying they had shortcomings that dissatisfied residents. "We must draw a lesson from the problems exposed."

Wang Fuyu, provincial deputy Party chief, and Vice Governor Huang Kangsheng joined the discussion on Wednesday.

Wang, who is also heading an investigation into the protest, urged Weng'an officials to listen to the voice of the people and solve the problems that were closely related to their interests.

He said the violent protest would not have happened if local officials had communicated with angry people in time after the first signs of protest emerged.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/03/content_8484446.htm

FromChina:

I'm a chinese came from a small town in china. When I read the news first time I knew western people and media would be very excited about the news.

I wasn't there too and don't know what really happened, but one thing I'm sure, it's not that big incident as you think and You, western people, who never been in China, especially in those rural area, probably will never understand.

Just some backgrounds, please try harder to understand the scenario
- in those small towns/counties people do like watching 're nao', - all kinds incidents/accidents, like car accident, street fighting etc. that doesn't mean they involved, they just like to watch the 'show'.

- 30000 people gathered in a few hours?? probably most of them had no idea what was happening and just wanted to see 're nao' (live show?).

- in rural area, if one man was 'qi fu' (bullied) by outsiders, normally whole town/village will go out to fight for him, the core of the riot is about 200~300 people, I guess they are probably just from a same village.

- don't assume people there are like people you see in Washington, or even Beijing, normally people there in rural area more like to solve problems by their fists, keep in mind that people/cultures cross china are extremely diversified.

- people in west believes what western media says, but people in China normally don't believe what Chinese media says, before, they believed what western media said, but after Tibet riot they think all western medias are lairs as well. They tend to believe what their friends or relevant say. That's why the girl's parents thought the girl was raped, they believed them instead of police.

- at beginning it was said it's the town's communist party secretary's son rape the girl, apparently it's a lie, because there's a rule in china that local government's major leaders are always come from different places. e.g. if you were born in place A then you will never be place A's mayor/cp secretary, you will be 'rotated' through different places B, C, D..., 4 years a term, and you don't take your family with you except your wife.

- later turned out the parents of the two boys stayed with the girl that night are farmers from close villages.

One advice to you, kind and nice western people,

Things/people you hate might not be as bad as you thought.

Anti-CNN:

Police officials sacked in wake of wild protest

"Meanwhile, the provincial government ordered an investigation into top Party and government officials of the county over dereliction of duty and abuse of power that has nurtured a grudge among local residents over the years, Shi Zongyuan, the Party chief of Guizhou, told a special conference on the protest.

Shi urged local authorities to search out and punish criminal elements who took advantage of the dissatisfaction with the county authorities and fanned the incidence into a mass protest, Xinhua news agency reported yesterday."

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/print.asp?id=365614

ApplyChineseVisadotcom:

If you just look one aspect, the author may be right. But 6.4 demonstration is for central government. Right now most demonstrations are local because people become more aware of their interest and right, such as land, compensation, employment, school, and justice.

ApplyChineseVisadotcom:

If you just look one aspect, the author may be right. But 6.4 demonstration is for central government. Right now most demonstrations are local because people become more aware of their interest and right, such as land, compensation, employment, school, and justice.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

The police chief whose inquiry into the alleged rape and murder of a schoolgirl triggered riots in southwestern China is facing the sack for sparking the unrest, state media reported early Friday.
Xinhua on Tuesday cited officials saying the case would be reopened in acknowledgment of public anger over the inquiry's handling.

But a day later Jinqian Online quoted local police official Wang Daixing, who it said had been involved in the forensic investigation, telling a news conference that there had been no rape.

"According to investigations, there was no sexual activity before the death," said Wang.

The Wednesday report also quoted local party official Luo Yi saying the government official whose son was accused of the crime had no relatives in the area and that the girl was with other people at the time of her death.

The Hong Kong-based Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy has said more than 2,000 paramilitary and riot police had been dispatched to the county to squash the unrest and that at least 300 people had been arrested.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hOW1Z0oeF0iAqCgBdPsgR2-p_3BA

iewgnem:

People in China like the central goverment because they attribute their improvement in living standard to the central goverment, while attribute corruption and local grievances to local officials. In the US, the living standards are coming down and corruption are linked to big cooperations, local governors are however quite clean, so you have the opposite.

Pomfret's analysis is not entirely correct. If everyone just aimlessly wait for "blue sky", as you put it, Hu wouldn't have to worry about popular perception and to yield to public pressure, people in China does not have a habit of directly overthrowing those they have grievances against, 2000 years of bureaucracy means they tend to look at the higher level official to exact justice on the lower. The central goverment is the highest level, they are where everyone look to for justice, that's why they care. The local officials on the other hand answers to their boss, not the people, so unless central goverment issues a directive, they are far less worried.

Chinese politics is top-down, that's also why people trust top leaders more than local. American politics is bottom up, that's why they trust local more than feds.

One have to make the distinction between rioters and onlookers, only a hundred or so people actually did something, you can tell it from the video quite clearly. If 30000 people did all rioted then the situation would be a lot worse than just a burnt building.

none:

Wish all of you know that: Now all the riots have been broken down and the town was sent into peace again. Official news claims that People there are proud of and thankful to the "dearest" policemen and army, who arrested and killed anyone against them. This is what a "harmonic" society is. The girl deserves her "suicide", because whatever the government reports is and must be righteous.

hindous:

The politicans in cntral government care more their reputation in history book. They behave better with better income. The local politicans, their names will unlikely be recorded in history books, their incomes are much lower than those in central government. They tend to be more corruptive and be hated by local people.

On the other hand, don't forget the riots in early 1990s in LA. The mistreat of a black male by polices angried many people in LA. The damage from the riots were much worse.

Make conclusion from one incident is not very logic.

gg:

Very very interesting analysis. It shows a difference in psyche between China and North America population, which few people noticed.

Fishy:

In the United States, the local governor of each state is democratically elected.

In China, the local governor of each province is appointed by the state's central authorities.

Ying Yang:

I fail to see the point of this article.

Ok, China may have more corruption that the U.S. But the U.S. is fare from an angle in regards to corruption. If a cop in L.A. rapes and kill a girl or a U.S. soldier in Iraq do the same; will you blame the whole U.S. government?

The only reason this incident maid news is because 30000 peoples protested against this incident. If the same amount of peoples would protest in the U.S. or any other country for similar incident, it would make the news to.

hoho:

---Luo Yi, the police chief of Qian'nan prefecture, which administers Weng'an, said the violence was 'fanned and exacerbated by local gangs and criminals, who were organized in sending gasoline, machetes, clubs and fireworks to aid the destruction.' ---

300000 people rioting. (much harder then tibetan riots) that must be a realy big and powerfull gangs.. is a power of chinese maf.... aehhmm.. comunist party not that powerfull?

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

Beijing - China on Thursday said a string of unresolved 'social grievances' and encouragement by criminal gangs sparked rioting by 30,000 people after the death of a teenage girl in the south-western province of Guizhou.

At a meeting on Wednesday, provincial leaders said local officials in Guizhou's Weng'an county had 'failed to resolve disputes over mines, demolition of illegal buildings, immigration, reform of state-owned enterprises and many other issues', state media said.

'Some legitimate interests (of the people) were not effectively protected, and some people bore grievances,' the Guizhou Daily newspaper said.

Officials said that about half of the estimated 600 to 800 crimes committed annually in Weng'an remained unsolved.

Theft, robbery and assault were 'frequent occurrences,' the official Xinhua news agency said.

Luo Yi, the police chief of Qian'nan prefecture, which administers Weng'an, said the violence was 'fanned and exacerbated by local gangs and criminals, who were organized in sending gasoline, machetes, clubs and fireworks to aid the destruction.'

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1414793.php/China_blames_%26quotsocial_grievances%26quot_gangs_for_riot_in_south-west

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