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China's Peace, Luv, and Missile Cut

Talk about peace, love and understanding! Reuters today is quoting a Nationalist Party spokeswoman from Taiwan as saying China has vowed to cut the number of missiles aimed at Taiwan.

I said in an earlier post that the stage has been set for a luv-fest between Beijing and Taipei.

Today's report concerns a meeting last week between Nationalist Party Chairman Wu Poh-hsiung and senior leaders in Beijing, including President Hu Jintao. Wu asked about the missiles and was told China would stop deploying them ahead of a gradual reduction. "It was a friendly reaction," spokeswoman Ms. Chen Shu-jung told Reuters. China did not set a timeline or estimate how many missiles might be removed, she said.

If this report turns out to be true, it would be really major. Not just an olive branch, heck, a whole tree, presented by China's leaders to the new president of Taiwan, Ma Ying-jeou, who took office on May 20. Ma has also set his sights on a peace accord, as well as a boost in trade ties. Get ready for negotiations to begin on direct air travel. Shanghai to Taipei, less than a two-hour flight. Good for biznez!

The Taiwan-China luv-fest doesn't stop there. Chinese officials have also asked Taiwan for a proposal on its bid to participate in the World Health Organization. Taiwan wants some type of observer status. At least. Remember, just a few years ago Sha Zukang, now a UN undersecretary, launched into a totally insulting and incredibly undiplomatic rant at Taiwanese reporters in Geneva at the height of China's SARS coverup. Sha taunted Taiwanese reporters, telling them they'd never be recognized by the UN or the WHO. (see this classic Onion piece on Sha.)

Those days are gone, at least for a while.


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Comments (187)

Anonymous:

Overseas Chinese and media around the world have welcomed the resumption of talks between the Chinese mainland's Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Straits (ARATS) and the Taiwan-based Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF).

Li Tao, president of the Chinese Motherland Peace and Unity Promotion Association of Australia, said the two sides' agreements on weekend chartered flights and mainland tourists' travel to Taiwan inaugurated a new chapter in the history of cross-Straits relations.

Cross-Straits relations will become closer and closer with deepening people-to-people exchanges between the Chinese mainland and Taiwan, he said.

Chen Weidong, vice president of the Australian Capital Territory Council for the Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China, said the agreements brought substantial convenience for exchanges across the Taiwan Straits.

He called the agreements important political achievements conducive to Taiwan's economic development, which deserve congratulations from overseas Chinese around the world.

Ni Jian, president of the Czech Council for the Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China, said the resumption of talks between the ARATS and the SEF in Beijing is a great milestone in improving cross-Straits relations.

It has brought a new opportunity for and will exert a significant influence on the development of cross-Straits ties, he added.

In a statement, the Chinese American Alliance for China's Peaceful Reunification and the National Association for China's Peaceful Unification in Washington said the resumption of talks has put cross-Straits ties on a normal track of sound interaction.
---------------------------------------------

its very funny how chinese are calling forign citizens "oversea chinese" and use their position for own propaganda.

why do let australian and american goverments work those spy and propaganda organisations inside of own countries?

Wang Chengde:

All the people to embrace. Peace-loving people. Remember the feeling you all: the joy in life, sadness , even death.
Not to waste your own "the capital of well-being ." In the face of history. Each person is only a "drop"!

Wang Chengde:

Bless all the people:
the Chinese people,
Americans,
Iraqis,
Myanmar,
Japanese,
Korean,
and so on.
Because happiness can only rely on the "treasure".

Wang Chengde:

oh.My God!

Robert of Los Angeles:

Wow China will CUT missiles targeted at Taiwan.

No wait, it will "stop deploying" and then "cut back".

Wow, China will SOON CUT missiles targeted at Taiwan.

No schedule is given.

Wow, China may SOMEDAY CUT missiles targeted at Taiwan.

But will missiles be eliminated or just NOT targeted?
And will missile launchers be removed as well?

Uhh, China may SOMEDAY CUT TARGETING Taiwan with as many missiles and let Taiwanese medical officials "observe" at World Health just like real countries can. How wonderful????????

One-China:

Reconciliation has begun.

Uncle Tom:

Chinese Discusting Pig Nazi is hacking on the West
and Parents for chinese failture:

---------------------------------------------------
Yu Qiuyu: Tearfully asking the victims not be used by anti-Chinese forces

Yesterday, in the overseas media, I saw images of protesting parents holding pictures of their deceased children. These parents demanded a thorough legal investigation on the corrupt officials and contractors who built the collapsed schools, requesting the authorities to penalize individuals involved in these projects. While the police tried to mediate, the parents refused to back down and could not hide their anger. Based on these facts, the anti-Chinese media has again launched its attack against China. Four claims have been made:

1. The earthquake was more of a human tragedy than a natural disaster;

2. The officials claimed that the parents’ demands are beyond the local court's jurisdiction;

3. Five foreign reporters were questioned and held in custody by the Chinese police while videotaping the scenes;

4. Did the earthquake really have an impact on China's democratization?

For this, I tearfully ask the parents to understand the government, calm down, and stop creating new troubles. Your loss, your grief, and your pain are shared by the entire nation; 1.3 billion people have been mourning for the children who died in the earthquake. This is one of the most solemn memorial ceremonies in the history of mankind, and your children will be remembered.

On the national mourning day, a teacher of Buddhism told me that with the prayers of billions of people, all the lost lives will become Buddha and bless this country. I believe that your children in heaven will have eternal peace.

Of course, whoever built the unsafe schools must be held accountable. Those irresponsible contractors and officials must be penalized by law. Under the current circumstances, I cannot even imagine which institutions would dare to cover up for what these people did. What you are asking for are exactly the issues that the government and its people have resolved to address. However, this might be a long process.


http://en.chinaelections.org/NewsInfo.asp?newsID=17932

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

After returning to Taiwan, Wu humbly declared that he was well-treated by the Chinese before dispatching Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF) Chairman Chiang Pin-kung (江丙坤) to negotiate the details of weekend chartered flights and Chinese tourism to Taiwan. But there were previous statements that, once dialogue resumed, Taiwan’s participation in the WHO would be the main priority for discussion.

One begins to wonder if there are matters of greater urgency, or if Taiwan’s WHO membership is no longer considered a priority.

There is no need to relate the oppression that Taiwan has suffered in its attempts to join the WHO. China’s formulation of the “Anti-Secession” Law in March 2005 shocked Taiwan and drew international criticism. But in April of that year, Lien led a group to visit China. In response, China exhibited “goodwill” and in May signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the WHO, promising that information would be passed on to Taiwan and that channels of communication would remain open.

The MOU is built on the precondition that Taiwan is the territory of the People’s Republic of China and must look to the Chinese government for decisions in all matters. Although the government did not accept the memorandum, the WHO secretariat implemented it — a fine example of how Beijing’s “goodwill” operates.

The Department of Health says that between 2005 and last year the WHO held 1,000 technical conferences on infectious diseases. China only informed Taiwan’s Centers for Disease Control of 40 of these events, and Taiwanese experts were only permitted to attend nine. In the last year, the WHO sent 236 health-related notices, only 16 of which were relayed to Taiwan. Of those, most were so delayed that the message was received only after the diseases had been covered in the international press.

Citing the MOU, Chinese representatives to the WHO claim that the medical and health requirements of their “Taiwanese compatriots” are well cared for, that “Taiwanese compatriots” are participating fully in WHO-related events and that China will fully assist in fulfilling the needs of its “Taiwanese compatriots.”

At this year’s World Health Assembly meeting, members asked why Taiwan only received information concerning shigella after a long delay. China calmly replied that the enormity of its country and the size of its population occasionally leads to delays, but that they would work to improve their ability to inform. Their attitude is an immeasurable tragedy for Taiwan.

Following Wu’s recent efforts, China appears once again to be demonstrating their “goodwill.” Yet whether the WHO is still a priority remains unknown. The government may believe that this opportunity must not be missed, and that all should be conducted according to the supreme will of China. But if participation in the WHO must follow the conditions of the aforementioned MOU, then no matter what amendments are made, the degree and nature of participation will remain entirely dependent on Beijing.

The price of accepting this framework is placing Taiwan within the People’s Republic of China. If Taiwan can only increase its participation based on this type of “goodwill,” then in practice it is at the cost of our autonomy. Rather than increasing Taiwan’s international space, this model brings further constraint. The government should proceed cautiously lest it make dire errors in its impatient pursuit of a diplomatic breakthrough.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2008/06/11/2003414453

So much to "China's Peace, Luv, and Missile Cut"

Half-serious:

In the old days, when Chinese scholars and officials got into a little trouble with the emperor, they would be exiled to Hainan island.

But Hainan could become the Hawaii of the East.

Maybe now the Chinese government, instead of sending Chinese dissidents to jail, could consider "exiling" them to Taiwan instead!

Truthsayer:

Someone should remind the Village Idiot that Japan who is occupying Okinawa and Diaoyutai has no right to say anything.

Free Okinawa! Free Diaoyutai!

Taiwan province is already free. Keep Taiwan province of China free!

Ronald:

Rauol:
Sorry, that is a wrong piece. LOL

Ronald:

Rauol:
Excerpt of comment about Tibetan situation from the view of an Indian Journalist.
Simon:
These days are not quite good for you and Dalai Lama. You and Dalai have every reason to be pessimistic. Think about it, China is such a powerful nation nowadays. Not to mention the rising nationalism among 1.3 billion ordinary Chinese who refuse to budge on Tibet. In addition, simply looking at this number: 6 million Tibetans vs 1.3 billion Chinese, no wonder Dalai asked what’s the good to be hardliners (i.e. military confrontation). However, compared to our Americans, Chinese are amateurs and still at entry level in dealing racial issues. Here are some my suggestions for Chinese to learn from Americans to deal with Tibetans. If Chinese indeed finally command our American spirits, I am sure you will feel better and be at peace with Chinese

1). Stop your outdated torturing technique and try our waterboarding (endorsed by our President G. W. Bush).
2). Learn how we have dealt Branch Davidians and lit them up in flame in Waco, Texas. This may enlighten you how to deal with those violent monks, particularly Dalai Lama who has been on our CIA’s payroll ($180,000 a year)
3). Learn our extraordinary rendition, torture by proxy and CIA’s secret prisons.
4). Learn how we loosen up prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
5). Learn our Gitmo system.
6). Learn how to manipulate media and fake the evidence in order to invade another country for oil. Learn the art of PR of how we “liberated” Iraqis and were welcomed with rice and flower. Now Iraqis have the unprecedented freedom to kill each other (plus we also provide weapons and teach them hand by hand).
7). Learn how we have dealt with Native Indians and how we show the world of their wonderful Indian reservation. Adding a casino would be a plus. We believe that this is particularly relevant to your Tibetan problem.
8). Learn how to conduct human experiments to advance science and medicine. One excellent example is the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study initiated by the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS), now called Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). See how we white Americans advance our human science by withholding penicillin and let the disease to spread and kill.

Ronald:

Finally, I think we come to an agreement. Taiwan should stay the way it is forever. Economic integration with China should continue. I call this federalism through economic integration. Tibetan separatism will fade away with time. War is no longer necessary. Universalization of Western liberal democracy has stalled. Countries begin to see that democracy can take many forms.
Coercion/force no longer works in international affair. We can look forward to world peace. China then will start to reform its political system and move towards a more open and accountable government. Isn't that nice? The next question will be, why do the US still need 12 aircraft carriers group, 700 oversea military installations, and 6,000 nuclear warheads that can wipe out this planet twice. Is that what imperialism is? Does that has anything to do with democracy? The US democracy combined with imperialism is the worst of all.

Martin King:

"Long live fascism"? What are you talking about?
Who are you, Anonymous? You must be one of those right wing jerks. We are campaigning for Senate Obama. He will be our next president and you will be ruled by us. Yes, we have black skin color, so what? We will occupy White House and you will see the black faces everyday. No wonder why you end up in the hospital. Maybe you should stay there forever.

Anonymous:

Finally, the hurts stop. I need to check into a hoshiptal. But they would let me use the computer. What should I do ? Free Taiwan, Free Tibet, Free US, Free Japan. Long live Democracy. Long live fascism.

Flight talks:

(Reuters) - Taiwan's top China negotiator, P.K. Chiang, will lead a team to Beijing from June 11-14 to negotiate with his counterpart, Chen Yunlin, on establishing direct weekend flights and increasing Chinese tourist visits to the island.

Reality:

Taiwan would be enjoying it's independent status quo for a long long time!

Deng Xiaoping:

My last will is for Taiwan to be independent forever!

Zhang Qingli:

Mao Zedong was a wolf in a girl’s robe, a devil with a human face but the heart of a beast!

Michael Turton:

Raoul

You are correct. You are always right.

Michael Turton:

I am really sorry for what I said too. Please, forgive me Shawn.

Anonymous:

Shawn:

Please, forgive me.

Anonymous:

I am sorry everybody. I am really sorry.

Anonymous:

To piece of stupid chinese buthurt Sharon Stone weaboo:

1: its all the same stupid butthurt chinese
2: i dont care what stupid butthurt chinese are trying to say
3: you post prove me that i am right and you are the real loser here you stupid chinese

Anonymous:

I am sorry. I sometimes post nonsense when I am high on rocks. Please, I did not know what I was saying. I feel very bad. Shawn, I am really sorry.

Anonymous:

""Free governments around the world have announced that residents can use the term “Okinawa” instead of the occupier “Japan” on their household registration the Central News Agency (CNA) reported yesterday.

China's benign rule of its Taiwan province continues to be a model around the world.""

hey, butthurt arXehole sip to lie here.

Ace Reporter is fired:

Taiwanese can use ‘Taiwan’ on forms in Tokyo.

Tokyo Prefecture announced that resident foreigners can use the term “Taiwan” instead of “China” on their household registration.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/06/08/2003414171

Ace Reporter:


Free governments around the world have announced that residents can use the term “Okinawa” instead of the occupier “Japan” on their household registration the Central News Agency (CNA) reported yesterday.

China's benign rule of its Taiwan province continues to be a model around the world.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

Japan’s Tokyo Prefecture has announced that resident foreigners can use the term “Taiwan” instead of “China” on their household registration, or koseki, in its jurisdiction, the Central News Agency (CNA) reported yesterday.

CNA cited a report in the Japanese-language daily Sankei Shimbun yesterday as saying that Tokyo Prefecture would allow in-coming residents from Taiwan to register using the term “Taiwan” for their nation of origin.

This is the first instance in which a Japanese prefecture has allowed the use of the term “Taiwan” in official documents, and will help ensure the rights of Taiwanese residents abroad in Tokyo, CNA said.

my kudos for the Tokyo Prefecture.

Enders:

I agree Anonymous is sore loser. He bites like a dog everywhere on internet.

Anonymous:

to stupid chinese Sharon Stone weaboo:

i dont care..

Sharon Stone:

To stupid Anonymous:

You are poor fish and sore shXt loser! What the stupid trash!

Anonymous:

--You also know it's name is Inner Mongolia, not Mongolia!--

you know it not, that real name for those areas is SOUTH MONGOLIA. "Inner Mongolia" was just another stupid translation of stupid chinese nazis. i used it for you because you are so damn stupid to understand what i was talking about you stupid chinese.

--then there's difference, they didn't get independent like Mongolia.--

There is no difference. they were independent. South mongolians are still fighting for their freedom you discusting chinese pig.

--if your logic is this way, should New Mexico state belong to Mexico?--

go to south mongolia and talk with local mongols you chinese pig. they are maybe flood by chinese pigs wich are destroyin their lifestyle and nature but mongols in south mongolia do not want to be called chinese you discusting pig from China.

--you can come out with assertion without even thinking, I don't think it's worth to waste my time arguing with you.--

you are everytime welcome to shut you stupid chinese mudhole of mouth and to leave this topic you discusting chinese nazi.

Anonymous:

"Note: Neither the Republic of China nor the People's Republic of China were invited to the San Francisco Peace Conference, and neither were parties to the San Francisco Treaty. The Republic of China concluded a separate Treaty of Peace with Japan in 1952."

--So what? China still acsepted SanFrancisco Agreement about taiwanese referendum. --

you are still a failture.

Luv fest:

With direct flights, the mainland girlies would be plying their trade across the straits.

Tibetan-In-Exile--We Need Money!:


Tibetan in Exile--we need money!:

Yes, our Holiness gets all the attention and money (though not from Sharon Stone) from your governments. But what about us who actually do the shouting, grabbing running around in costumes and waving? Sure we are born in the west and never been to China. But that is not the point. The point is that we need the Tibet issue to survive.

The recent events really helped us a lot with more financial support. But is this enough? Certainly not! We have about 30000 Tibetans living in the US. But we have hundreds of local organizations. They are getting very little money. For example, our "Free Tibet" local chapter in Utah only has a budget of just over 400000$. Why so stingy? I think the British is a little more generous. The Germans and French are talking tough but the money doesn't show. Those are peanuts. We get our lion's share from the US.

So please help us. We are really afraid that you will forget us after the Olympics are over. Please!

Anti-fascist:

Taiwan is free forever and belongs to nobody else!

To "Dolittle":

So sad, you cannot get your little Chinese hands on Taiwan.

Boo hoo hoo!!!

Professor Dolittle:

Funny how the racist liars who try to steal China's Taiwan province keep yelling this "independent" blah blah blah.

If it was really independent, you wouldn't have to yell.

Stop trying to steal China's provinces!

To ANONYMOUS::

Don't try to cover your insecurity by using condescending remarks on people. Your disdainful attitude not only offends other readers who are intelligent beyond your imagination, but also betrays your upbringing. Go apologize to your mom!

Free speech:

Taiwan is already free and independent!

Anonymous:

++What happens if China flood Tibet with massive immigrants and then hold a vote for independent.++
good luck with that. beside a fact that most "chinese immigrants" are not Han-chinese at all.

Anonymous:

<<Isn't that the logic behind the Free Tibetan movement. What happens if China flood Tibet with massive immigrants and then hold a vote for independent.<<

hey loser. you should start to think and stop to make "if" BS.

Most chinese inside of Tibet are state/millitary workers. even if China will flood Tibet it means not that those guys have right to vote because they do not have citizenship of Tibet areas.

Ronald:

Most of the language/dialect spoken in Taiwan are originated from China except those by native Taiwanese. There are 1400 language/dialects spoken on Mainlander China. In order to move the country forward, it was practice in Mainland China that local Language/Dialect were forbidden to be used in school except Manadrin with the exception of non-Han area like Tibet. This policy is not aimed at Taiwan alone. I do not why you guys keep using this an excuse for independent movement.
Only the natives of those states excluding white and outside settlers , should be given the right to vote for independent. Isn't that the logic behind the Free Tibetan movement. What happens if China flood Tibet with massive immigrants and then hold a vote for independent.

Peter:

So much for "greatness"...

Anonymous:

++I wonder whether the natives of Alaska, California, Texas, Hawaii, the island of Garcia and Guam should be given the same right.++

pss idiot. the have those rights and they voted about already. beside a fact that Alaska, Hawaii and Guam are independent States of UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. i hope you are not that dumb idiot who cant search in internet to find out what "constitutional" federal republic and "state" mean.

Anonymous:

++The dialects of the so-called Taiwanese use are Chinese dialects++

sometimes i wish i can kick you into face. just to make your arrogant stupidity come back to your arse.

Because chinese goverment declarate languages to dialects it doesnt makes them to dialects. maybe is that why chinese goverment forced whole PRC-popualtion to learn Madarin and not "local dialects". But anyway Taiwan has different languages. some of them are comming from Sinitic language group and some (around 14 languages) are native formosian languages from Austronesian language family. languages of Taiwan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Taiwan

Ronald:

"Inner Mongolia, etc is not part of China, therefore, Chinese occupation is illegal and they are fascist." It is interesting.
US purchased Alaska from the Russian without the consent of native people. Hawaii was established through force. The island of Garcia in the middle of India Ocean was brutally occupied in 1980+ with local population kicked out. Texas and California was stolen from Mexico by force. A lot of Mexicans still think those two states are theirs. I just wonder who is the fascist.
At the end of the Ming Dynasty, a Ming Dynasty General retreated to Taiwan kicked out settlers from Holland and used it as a base to fight the Government in Beijing. Most of the so-called Taiwanese are descendents of his soldiers. There is a shrine of the General in Southern Taiwan in memory of him. The only real Taiwanese are those called mountain people in Taiwan. The rest are immigrants from China. The dialects of the so-called Taiwanese use are Chinese dialects.
Chang's government was given back two islands by the US government after WWII, Taiwan and Okinawa. Chang only accepted Taiwan. And immigrant from China to the island continued. If Taiwan should be given the right to vote for independent, I wonder whether the natives of Alaska, California, Texas, Hawaii, the island of Garcia and Guam should be given the same right.

Dude to Shawn:

You can stick to your version of history.

Good luck convincing it to the Taiwanese and Tibetans.

Ronald:

Peter:
"civil war is over"
Said who ? Look at North and South Korea. It is the same thing. Both of them still claim sovernity of the terrority of the others.

Ronald:

Peter:
"civil war is over"
Said who ? Look at North and South Korea. It is the same thing. Both of them still claim the terrority of the others.

Anonymous:

--Well, for the guy who claimed the future of Taiwan should be determined by all peoples in Taiwan. I'm touched by your courage and willing. But that's just as stupid as .--

can you please spare you dumb comments about other people. just because it was a part of san francisco teatries wich BTW was acsepted by chinese goverment you stupid idiot.

fixing chinese idiots:

>>no Chinese claim Mongols be part of China by now

gosh your stupidity must be famous in internet.

i do ask you now what are chinese doing inside of Inner Mongolia, Kashgaria, Qinghai and Mandchuria then? Leave those mongolia land and dont claim on it again!

Anonymous:

++That's why the problem raise over here, no Chinese claim Mongols be part of China by now, and no such so called "invasion" to Mongols for more than half century, but there's claim over Xizang which you called Tibet.++

FREE SOUTH MONGOLIA!

CHINESE GO HOME!

Shawn:

Well, for the guy who claimed the future of Taiwan should be determined by all peoples in Taiwan. I'm touched by your courage and willing. But that's just as stupid as ...(forgive me, I couldn't find a comparison).

Why there was American Civil war in the 1860s? if the fate can be determined by southern state, why the northern still put it on war and force it into the Federal union? Well, you can call the southern states are evil and use slavry? How about the Tibet today? it's 150 years after American Civil War, your guys still support a guy who wanted to turn Tibet back to salary society!

Another way, if the fate could be determined by the people living on the land regardless of the rest of the country. Can Taiwan allowed independent of Taipei, Tainan, Miaoli Makung,Chunan,and other cities if the people there claimed so? would it allowed Taiwan to spillit into 10 or 20 independent "countries" if the people there willing so? You are such a saint, but better you ask the rest if they agree with you or not!

Shawn:

Beside, if you compare Mongols and Taiwan and Xizang, why you don't wonder there's no "obsession" towards Mongols from Chinese? It's part of China from Genghis Khan. Or you could say China was part of it along with Tibet. But eventually still become China until it's independent in 1911. The independent was officially recognized by the then government of China in 1945 after WWII. Tibet was also planned to declare independent with support of British, but has never been granted with acceptance by the then and now Chinese Governments.

That's why the problem raise over here, no Chinese claim Mongols be part of China by now, and no such so called "invasion" to Mongols for more than half century, but there's claim over Xizang which you called Tibet.

I never understand your English speaking peoples how to define the word "Invasion", if your army stationed at part of your territory which you never allowed it to independent is called Invasion, do you mean the US Marine stationed at Hawaii is considered as invasion? I've heard there are independent claim by the natives even it's still a small voice.

Shawn to Dude:

Dude to Shawn:

China's obsession with Taiwan and Tibet is exactly like fascist Hitler's obsession with "liberating" Austria, claiming that Austria belonged to the German people.
==========================================
So the point now is:
whether the relation between Germany and Austria is same as Mainland China to Xizang and Taiwan, right?

Let's assume your logic is correct. (which obviously is nonsense, as there are so many territory disputes among countries, they all are fascists?), so if Germany to Austria is same as Mainland China to Xizang and Taiwan, then the Chinese would be called fascist, right?


This is really funny, I would assume you don't have much history knowledge if you are not intentionally compared this way. There are historical records and proof that Xizang and Taiwan are part of China for hundreds years. But I couldn't figure out when Austria was part of Germany. Could any friends from Austria tell us if Austria was part of Germany in the history?

Harmony:

Let's hope Taiwan and Tibet will have further meaningful discussions with China.

Anonymous:

Anonymous June 6, 2008 2:18 AM:
++Vietnam was never Chinese province.++

Boy, some Chinese are so brain-washed, they need a history lesson.

Anonymous:

++This former Chinese province is tenaciously independent, and has fought off invaders from China, France and USA.++

Vietnam was never Chinese province. Stop to call forign empires chinese only because they rulled China and Vietnam in a same time.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

++The economy is already so closely linked with the mainland, the ties of language and family are so close, Taiwan would remain part of the greater family of China.++

you miss a big point here. Taiwan is going to make own national and most Taiwanese who are not linked by family "connections" with mainlanders dont see themselfes as chinese. about "greater family of China" you should see that funny youtube video where official chinese is going to atack taiwanese children because they were holding taiwanese flag.

++If the majority of people on Taiwan really want to be independent, why should you wish to prevent it?++

you must understand that Taiwanese people are splitted into different parties. one party wich was illigaly immigrate back in 50'ens together with Chian Kai Chek has most money in Taiwan and will do nothing aside to come back. zheir problem are new taiwanese laws wich dont let them go away with high-tech firms back to China and bad chinese laws wich dont let them to have a same freedom like in Taiwan. So they are going to built some "one state 2 systems" crap, where they can rule Taiwan like rich Honkongnese do it back in Honkong now. another their problem is that Taiwan is not Honkong.

++Unlike the situation in the US Civil War, in which a massive portion of the territorial United States wished to secede, with overwhelming economic and security implications for the country, Taiwan is an island of a little over 20 million people.++

1: Taiwan is not that small. you must see taiwanese areas inside of South-China Sea. and taiwanese geo-strategical position is very interesting when you are looking on chinese expansion into pacific.

++An independent, or federal, Taiwan would still be economically integrated with the mainland.++

actualy not. to be independent means that Taiwan can make bussines with whole world and that means Taiwan dont need USA and China to sell own production to african and other countries. Btw. Taiwan will do great job being helpfull with Phillipines and other poor east-asian countries.

++Moreover, without the threat of attack, it would likely balance itself between China and the US, wishing to be beholden to neither.++

China is not interested in Balance inside of South-Chinese Sea. Tipp; see chinese talking on the meeting with Gates. some chinese general is going so far to tell koreans they should cut relationship with USA and draw to chinese masters.

++Finally, China would generate such a swell of international good will and admiration that one would see a marked drop in criticisms of the country's government.++

oh dear. sorry but you are wrong. its paradox but china is not interested in calming critism either. Why? very simple. See chinese torch mess. after that China got many chinese close to own nazi agenda just by cheap internet propaganda.

++A Great Power is marked by magnanimity. China should show some++

not for China. China saw great power only when chinese people are inside of your home and eating from your table when 3 chinese soldiers are looking how you are making a food for new chinese masters.

Dude to Shawn:

China's obsession with Taiwan and Tibet is exactly like fascist Hitler's obsession with "liberating" Austria, claiming that Austria belonged to the German people.

Shawn:

One more thing, the fascism head Hitler is democratically elected like George Bush and maybe Obama!

I'm not saying those democracy are worse, but just to remind you thing can goes two different ways!

Shawn to Raoul:

You big dude, you are wrong!

You know what? the biggest difference between China and fascism is who's territory they are claiming. for fascism, they are invasion to other countries. for Chinese, they are uniting their own country.

In this way, I feel the US is more closer to fascism as they are invading countries one after another, like Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq, the next target is probably Iran, who knows.

Raoul:

Based on many of the posts coming from the mainland, I am beginning to think that fascism may be the proper framework for understanding China's future. Some very weird stuff emerging here.

Peter:

Marylander,

Unfortunately, I am only too familiar with this attitude toward what China claims as its country, territory and people.

The point is that Taiwanese do not seem to consider themselves part of your country, territory and people. You insist that they are, under threat of attack, but that does not necessarily make it so.

The attitude to which you refer sounds very much like, "it is so, because we say it is so."

Instead of referring to hallowed tradition as some kind of talisman, have you ever thought about the issue on its own merits? Why shouldn't this group of people on Taiwan have the right to decide how they should be governed?

Hu Zemin:

Vietnam is an inspiration for Taiwan and other restless minorities.

This former Chinese province is tenaciously independent, and has fought off invaders from China, France and USA.

Marylander:

Peter,

There are much for you to learn about Chinese when it comes to their attitude towards their territory, country, and people.

Chinese maybe barbarians to some and uncivilized to others, but they are determined to protect what was given to or inherited by them as their homeland. It is probably resulted from thousands of years of war history that land is the cause for wars. There is no holly war in the Chinese history that I know of, not like the West where religions are the main reason for one killing another even today!

Thus, for thousands of years, it is every ruler's dream to unite the country, and not to split it.
He who protects and unifies the country will go down the history as hero, or otherwise will be cursed, for his generation and many generations after. Take Chen Sui-Bian for example, thanks goodness he is done!

So even for peace-loving and Buddhists by birth, Chinese can be very vicious when it comes to defending their homeland.

Peter:

This "state of civil war" is a convenient construct that the mainland maintains. In fact, the civil war is over. China won.

Ronald:

Peter:
China has already accepted status quo and started negotiation with Ma's government. That threat of war is to prevent Taiwan from declaring independent unilaterally. Taiwan and China are still in the state of civil war, a legacy left behind by Mao and Chang. The two government has to come to solution satisfied to both sides before the state of civil war can be ended. Letting Taiwan go as an independent country right away, will put the Beijing Government on a tight spot politically when dealing with Tibetan separatists. I hope you can appreciate that.

Dahuan Zhou:

Dear Hulla Girl:
I am not used to show you how fluently I can use foreign language to call some other's name.Becaue
I just want to join a discussion.
In case you really called the police for my "false evidence" ,I realy will thank you once more, I even agree to sponsor the air tickets for their trip to China.
Thank you again.

Peter:

Imagine if a mainland leader undertook a "Nixon to China" style turnabout in foreign policy toward Taiwan. Instead of maintaining the current white-knuckle grip on the idea of reunification, China's leaders could publicly accept an acceptance of the status quo -- with no timelines, no preconditions, no pre-stated endpoint of reunification, in its negotiations with Taiwan.

After all, why does it bother China so much that Taiwan wishes to govern itself? The economy is already so closely linked with the mainland, the ties of language and family are so close, Taiwan would remain part of the greater family of China.

If the majority of people on Taiwan really want to be independent, why should you wish to prevent it?

Unlike the situation in the US Civil War, in which a massive portion of the territorial United States wished to secede, with overwhelming economic and security implications for the country, Taiwan is an island of a little over 20 million people. An independent, or federal, Taiwan would still be economically integrated with the mainland. Moreover, without the threat of attack, it would likely balance itself between China and the US, wishing to be beholden to neither. Think of neutral Switzerland.

Finally, China would generate such a swell of international good will and admiration that one would see a marked drop in criticisms of the country's government. A Great Power is marked by magnanimity. China should show some.

Captain Taipei:

Taiwan does not belong to anyone else except the Taiwanese themselves and their President.

Anonymous:

++Yeah...their price is real cheap as well...no cash...I just have to feed them a protein shake.++

i hope you closed their grave after you gived a fun of pleasure to them, my little stupid chionese necrophile.

Anonymous:


++Both your mother and sister told me how out of control you are, and that was while they were screaming in pleasure.++

hmm thats nice to know, they both have a fun of pleasure with chinese necrophile.

Hulla girl:

++I can not accept your obscene language.++

and i cant acsept your racism based on your own stupidity and generalisation. if you cant make a bussines with people from abroad then dont do it.

++I agree to meet you at any place at your convienence for the evidence.++

why? are you that worried about me? i can perfect live without your arrogant atacks.

++If you call the police either in China or in USA, I will thank you very much.++

oh, already did it.

++To tell you the truth , the evidence is already at one of USA Supreme Court.++

so why are you posting this case here? is it that important to the topic here? or are you just going to publish your own failed bussines? are you going to show your "finger of the red quard" here?

++I already showed my real name, what about you?++

why do you need my real name?

btw. my poor chinese bastard. i lost many money with chinese internet sellers.(ebay and book-imports). many people from my town lost their jobs and future because of chinese cheap imports and relocation of factories into China. do you see me or some other here bashing and atacking chinese people for that? You piece of self-pity, selfish and arrogant bastard!

Dahuan Zhou:

To: Hulla Girl:
I can not accept your obscene language.
I agree to meet you any place at your convienence for the evidence. If you call the police either in China or in USA, I will thank you very much.
To tell you the truth , the evidence is already at one of USA supreme Court.
I already showed my real name, what about you?

Captain America:

The first one to use racism lose. The racist liars trying to steal China's Taiwan province lose.

Game, Set, and Match!

CAP:

"???" is a fool and Taiwan is not a province!

Democrat:

China should have more freedom and human rights like Taiwan.

Freedom:

Taiwan president is democratically elected!

???:

Racist CAP boy must be a high school reject.

Poor fellow.

Funny how a racist fool is trying mess with China's Taiwan province.

So you have AIDS too? What a pity fool!

Drusilla:

Suzhou, actually...

???:

Look at his picture, he's old man.

Are you male or female? Are you from Chinese Taipei?

Drusilla:

I love all of you!! Because you make such good arguments!

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

++Taiwan can have Chinese culture and language and still be independent++

WHY AT THE HECK MUST TAIWAN HAVE CHINESE CULTURE?

TAIWAN HAS OWN GREAT CULTURE.

????:

You can call it whatever you want.

Taiwan flag is different from yours.

???:

It is a Chinese province. That is the fact. You must blind and a total moron.

????:

Dream on.

Why would Taiwan want to be a little Chinese province, when it can live independently and freely?

To Dr. Feelgood:

Taiwan is already independent now.

Surrender is meaningless.

Drusilla:

I love you, John Pomfret! You are dreamy!

Dr. Feelgood:

Taiwan is just a Chinese province, what's the big deal?

There isn't anyone strong enough to steal Taiwan from China, so forget it. Chinese Taipei should surrender and stop this pretending this.

May be Bush can surrender to the Chinese too. They'll do a better job running the economy.

Anonymous:

Yo hippies. It's a luv-fest!

you people need help:

You people really have anger problem here. Please seeks help before it too late.

Formosa:

USA, Australia and New Zealand have English culture and language and now they are independent countries.

Taiwan can have Chinese culture and language and still be independent.

Booker T:

Taiwan is like the gangstra son who is under the influence of white dope dealer (the US).

He might be a bad son right now but most of the blame is on the dope dealer, the parents will always want to take back their children - no matter how dope up.

Hulla Girl:

--See, we got another example about how stupid and desperate a China-hater can be.--

OH NO! I LOVE CHINA! i am really worried about this poor chinese bastard! he must contact US and chinese police! as fast as possible! before another poor chinese nazi will start a new troll-war here!

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

++of coz there will be a real peace.++

tell me about..

++No politican in power across the strait actually wants a war.++

funny thing about wars. noone wants them but everyone wants to fight for "great future" and so on..

++The red line of the mainland side is always clear.++

sorry? can you show me that line, please.

++Since the Taiwan side is backing dow, the mainland side will definite ease the tension. Everyone will benefit. Ooops, I forget the karmaed China-haters, whatever, they are getting another karma since China is making progress again. ++

yeahh sure.. Tell that to nations, wich are worried about chinese "red lines" made for spartleys, north-east india, taiwan and north-korea.

oops i forgot to tell your karma about your low education about that karma-thing, my barking friend.

lol:

'Hulla Girl:

@ Dahuan Zhou

You poor chinese bastard!

i called police in China and USA. i think they are going to knock on your door for get some evidences. please dont run away next time.'

See, we got another example about how stupid and desperate a China-hater can be.

lol

Well:

of coz there will be a real peace. No politican in power across the strait actually wants a war.
The red line of the mainland side is always clear. Since the Taiwan side is backing dow, the mainland side will definite ease the tension. Everyone will benefit. Ooops, I forget the karmaed China-haters, whatever, they are getting another karma since China is making progress again.

Hulla Girl:

@ Dahuan Zhou

You poor chinese bastard!

i called police in China and USA. i think they are going to knock on your door for get some evidences. please dont run away next time.

Dahuan Zhou:

"Where would china be without western money and jobs that has built this country from dire poverty. If the west pulled out where would this country be? "
I am both funny and annoying to read the above lines.
It needs too much examples to refute this viewpoint if I were China's spokeman.
My own story on western money is that an American whose name I don't want to mention borrowed from me two million RMB Dollars temporary, after more than two years he still play the game"pay back tomorrow", not only that , he ran back to America and plyed the "hide-and- seek" new game.
My country's story on western money is that:through export products, China has foreign currenct reserves, mainly in US Dollars, the money was earned by hard toil of millions of Chinese people, but devaluation in USD gave China bigger loss than earth quake.

To Ken:

u said "Strategically, Taiwan is like the testicles of China. Unfortunately, they are now in the hands of the United States. What shall you do when your testicles are in other's hand? You try to retrieve your critical part. That's what China tries to do."

Geez, what an analogy! I always thought of China being the man trying to woo Taiwan, the gal.

Though I have yet to see a man successfully reattach his testicles, Mr Pomfret should award you for the most original x-rated comment on Taiwan.

ACT LIKE U MEAN IT:

By trade we co-exist.
Governments and corporations are looking after their own self interest, no one is looking after yours.

If you are so annoyed with China’s obvious abuses, then why you buy so much cheap Chinese made junk?

If you are so tired of the US and EU bending to the will of China; then buy goods from corporations that do not do business in China, and write to your congress or government rep to levy taxes and restrictions on corporations looking forward to reap the benefits of enslaved Chinese people working under communist rule to enrich their party leader’s pockets.

Taiwanese people are not stupid; why would they want to be Chinese slaves when they can be owners of their own businesses, enterprises and way of life?

If you really cared, you would put your money where you mouth is and you would stop buying Chinese junk, poisoned food and all governments’ corporate lies!

But, you won’t, because you are addicted to CHEAP Chinese JUNK, and you like your government LIES!

Alishan:

Ronald said "The situation between Taiwan and China is the legacy of civil war. It is a historical fact."

Taiwan was an independent island until KMT lost the civil war and escaped to Taiwan.

Treaty of Shimonoseki
http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1895.htm

Tzu Kung:

There is a question of government legitimacy in this Beijing/Taipei controversey. How is it that a government created and maintained by warlord force has authority over a government that has a much more advanced perception of human evolution in its democratic way? The Beijing government would need to govern at least five autonomous regions that had their own governments democratically evolved as much has Taipei in order to make a claim as a legitimate 'imperial' central government. The warlord political parties of Mao and Chiang do not qualify as advanced, aware political entities (wu wei) but as reactions to even more primitve political structures created in ther past. Let Beijing create the checks and balances of ordered progressive societies before it makes claims on others.

dcdc:

It's a joke to say that China's willingness to reduce missiles aiming to Taiwan was "Peace". We all know missiles are highly mobilized war gears. Even if China took all 1200 missiles out of the current position, it would take only days to put them back where they are. China does this is in hope that Taiwan will abandon its long time efforts to develop its own missile in response to Chinese threat. In the meantime it can use this tactics to convince Washington to reduce arm sale to Taiwan. The pro-China policy of Ma Ying-jeou's Nationalist Party will make Taiwan become part of China soon.

Anonymous:

to Fate

they build statutes to them.

Anonymous:

This isn't that significant. Once you point the missiles away from Taiwan, they can always quickly and easily be pointed back in their original direction. The US and USSR used to enter into meaningless agreements about this kind of stuff all the time.

Fate:

peter wang wrote: "Taiwan is one part of China, China is the mother and Taiwan is her child,mother is protecting her child and child is also willing to together with mother!"

And what do you call a mother that points missles at her child? In America we put those mothers in jail to protect the child. What do they do in China to those mothers?

Arrey:

If china says it does not recognise taiwan as a nation, why does it receive deplomats from taiwan? Why does china call the president of taiwan "president?" They should concede the fight and give taiwan up. They have openly accepted deplomats from taiwan, that means officialy recognising taiwain as a nation.

To Independent:

"Taiwan is likely to not choose to reunite with China, at least for many decades, if ever."

You've said it. Looks like its gonna be unrequited love.

Ronald:

The situation between Taiwan and China is the legacy of civil war. It is a historical fact. Whether DPP like it or not, the state of civil war still exists up till today. It does not change that just by declaring independent. Shooting between two sides stopped only recently. When I was in Taiwan in 1960+, people I talked to, told me how the frog men from Taiwan swam over to China to bring back souvenir of dead Chinese soldiers. In order to terminate this state of civil war, a peace treaty has to be signed for the benefit of both sides. Taiwan used to say they are the only legitmate government of China and CCP was just a rebel government until US betrayed them. What would have happened, if England decided to support the South militarily during the US civil war. Fortunately, England only sent in obsevers to the South because they abolished slavery in England and cannot support a state based on slavery. One Southern General said that they would have had a better chance of winning the war if the South had abolished slavery before the fighting started. When you think of it, it was illegal to sell opium in England at the time when they sent in warships to force China to buy opium from them.

peter wang:

Taiwan is one part of China,China is the mother and Taiwan is her child,mother is protecting her child and child is also willing to together with mother!

Peace:

Taiwan president called on China to give democracy to its people, on the 19th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square crackdown.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h5BgPqewhB07MR4CxFYPNtVNV8Jw

Go Tibet:

Dalai Lama is a good friend of Taiwan.

yh:

taiwan is province of chinese

To Readin:

u said "Taiwan the independent nation" will not be recognized, but under Ma "Taiwan, Province of the People's Republic of China" will be.

Ma demoting himself from President of Taiwan to governor of Taiwan? LOL!

Readin:

"Sha taunted Taiwanese reporters, telling them they'd never be recognized by the UN or the WHO." And given President Ma's behavior so far, she was right. "Taiwan the independent nation" will not be recognized, but under Ma "Taiwan, Province of the People's Republic of China" will be. Ma did say that sovereignty wasn't important during his inaugural address. So why not trade it for limited participation in the WHO?

To Anon:

"If Taiwan is doing fine and China is doing fine... why do they care about a political union?"

Well said.

Looks like Taiwan is just playing along in this luv-fest, and not looking for a serious relationship.

truth serum:

to MTYOREL

that post was for you

First of all, I am not the blogger you accuse me to be. I have never heard that name before.

Secondly, I disagree with you and your ideas and claims. That does not make me a euro-suprematist or racist or otherwise or wrong for that matter. You aren't the final authority or arbitraiter of truth here. Its a different opinion based on what I know. Coca-Cola was the very first foreign company allowed into china and to do business by Mao in 1975. That was something that Nixon negotiated at their meeting that year. The groundwork for investment was established by the US with Mao and was fully implemented by Dong in 1984. Wen said last year that currently the US alone has almost 1 trillion US dollars in current circulation in the economy here, which is also more than all the other investments put together. He also acknowledged that it has the largest trade deficit.

I report factual truth here about that Jiao Tong scientist and the aftermath of his lies that were published all over the world including the WSJ. That is not racist, thats fact or is this a concept that you think is one and the same?

I've never spoken to you here before. Don't threaten me again or I will report you to WSJ for it.

PROUD ANTI-CHINESE:

@ Independent

i never heard that Taiwan was given to China. It was never given to comunist China at all.

Taiwan is still under "depence" of WW2 Allies.

Maybe thats why Taiwan is still under protection of USA and UN until Taiwanese will do referendum about their indepence.

Anonymous:

First of all, I am not the blogger you accuse me to be. I have never heard that name before.

Secondly, I disagree with you and your ideas and claims. That does not make me a euro-suprematist or racist or otherwise or wrong for that matter. You aren't the final authority or arbitraiter of truth here. Its a different opinion based on what I know. Coca-Cola was the very first foreign company allowed into china and to do business by Mao in 1975. That was something that Nixon negotiated at their meeting that year. The groundwork for investment was established by the US with Mao and was fully implemented by Dong in 1984. Wen said last year that currently the US alone has almost 1 trillion US dollars in current circulation in the economy here, which is also more than all the other investments put together. He also acknowledged that it has the largest trade deficit.

I report factual truth here about that Jiao Tong scientist and the aftermath of his lies that were published all over the world including the WSJ. That is not racist, thats fact or is this a concept that you think is one and the same?

I've never spoken to you here before. Don't threaten me again or I will report you to WSJ for it.

Anonymous:

proud anti-chinese:

What's your points?

Independent:


Taiwan is likely to not choose to reunite with China, at least for many decades, if ever. The governments of China, Taiwan and the United States have been playing a tacit game about the status of Taiwan since Nixon's historic visit there around 1972 CE. The United States government cynically has agreed with Chinese claims there is one China, while selling weapons to Taiwan, as well as somewhat ambiguously promising to defend Taiwan if it is attacked without provocation.

China's government, in turn, seems to have acquiesced in this cynical posture by the United States government, partly because of lacking sufficient military capability to forcibly retake the island, more recently because Chinese leaders have decided economic growth and trade are more important to them than trying to regain Taiwan. The leaders of Taiwan have generally tried to benefit from the ambiguity, but tacit recognition of their sovereignty, but not independence. The Chinese government has tolerated the game as long as the leaders of Taiwan did not upset the status quo, by humiliating China with overt independence, as sought by their previous reckless leader.

proud anti-chinese:

--Many Chinese always say that Westerns, including American, do not understand China, or Chinese culture.--

well..

-first of all noone chinese know chinese culture and doesnt understand chinese himself.
why? because China is just a little part of today People's Republic of China. Most Han chinese from different cities cant talk with eachother because they do not talk a same language or live in completly different lifestyle.

-stupid uneducated chinese tend to use "you dont understand chinese" because they fear to be blamed being stupid and uneducated. so they cut disscutions with "its useless to talk with you because you cant even understand what i am talking about".

--But what does it mean “understand China”?--

actualy we do understand China very well. what chinese do want is that you should shut up and start to lick their boots.

-Do those people really understand Western culture or American culture?

tipp: that kind of things do not exsist. like there is not ONLY ONE chinese culture. (because china is not monolite. China has thousands different cultures) (before Konfuziaism. that failed philosophy is only for some low educated chinese managers and weaboo intelectuals, who cant describe their thinking by modern terms and theories)

--For sure, there are way more Chinese know English or other European languages than American or European knows Chinese. But does merely know the language sufficient enough for “understanding”?--

hey.. i am european and i live in a Euroland with 500 Millions of people. Do you realy think it is possible for me to know all european cultures?

(China is exsactly same big like whole european continent. European continent has around 900 millions of population)

mtyorel:

Truth Serum:

You have to stop using tacky names. You were Hong Kong Wang Chung last time. Your typical tirade and racially-tinged euro-supremacy expressions and dictum give you away each time.

The US in its early days of the republic was a blatant copier of technology and products from Britain and Europe. You can say the same with every single nation on this planet so your point is not just irrelevant but without merit. Nations copy. Academics 'steal' each other's idea or 'improve' upon a theory. Innovation is the mother of existing improvement. The Japanese were accused of the exact same things.

The question is not whether a nation can stop copying but whether a nation will realize that innovation is the way to economic prosperity. Japan, US, and EU nations have established many research centers in China. China turns out more engineers than the US each year. MS establish many research centers in China because it feels the knowledge it can harness from China is counterbalances the piracy. In fact China is the only country where MS opened up its windows source codes for local development.

You should read the WSJ and the FT before making ridiculous claims of 'China collapsing without foreign factories'. The 'West' was not the one who helped China to achieve economic prosperity. Initial investments were from Hongkong - the 'West' were myopic and risk adversed to take the Chinese market seriously until well into the late 80s. In fact, most initial 'Western' investments ended up in total failures. i.e. The saga of Beijing Jeep.

Do your research and quit the racist rhetoric - or the Post will have you blocked once again.

Anon:


"This is our Chinese's fortune. we cant lost Taiwan and we also want democracy.so mailand and taiwan gogether will be only way for Chinese's happy future."

I can't make any logical sense of Tracy's post. How is it all related? Isn't Chineseness a political invention of Chinese nationalists? It seems to go against the threads of current understandings of culturo-ethnic identity development.

It's not like Taiwan and China will form a giant robot if they come together. Besides... modern nation states are not ethnic entities.
The only link between Taiwan and China may be language, but most people in China and Taiwan were illiterate until recently. With that in mind... how could they really imagine each other if they had no way of temporalizing the other. Most people in China and Taiwan didn't have access to maps, couldn't read, had no access to census material. How could they even know about the existence of "Chinese" if there was no way to imagine people they would never meet.

It looks like a bad anachronous nationalizing trope. Smells like a bad anachronous nationalizing trope. Quacks like a bad anachronous nationalizing trope....

Ken:

why China wants reunification with Taiwan?

There're many reasons. One of them has been both emotional and cultural. Chinese culture always attaches importance to family reunion. In Chinese, nation and family are actually intertwined. Taiwan is part of
China- the big family, but due to historical reasons, it's separated from the mainland. There's a day for it to return to the big family, called China. Chinese people on the mainland consider it a must that Taiwan comes back to China.

Besides, do you guys know that many Taiwan residents are from the mainland. Their ancestors were buried in the mainland. They want reunification, so they can lay on the side of their ancestors after they pass away. They consider themselves Chinese, different from independence-minded local residents, who rush to get rid of everything Chinese.

Strategically, Taiwan is like the testicles of
China. Unfortunately, they are now in the hands of the United States. What shall you do when your testicles are in other's hand? You try to retrieve your critical part. That's what China tries to do.

For China to become a real super power, it has to bring Taiwan back. This is not debatable.

The point that is debatable is how to achieve it. By force, or by peaceful means?

truth serum:

Why:
the chinese had their period of creativity and innovation in the tong dynasty about 3000 years ago and that has never been repeated. in fact, the culture has been in a steady decline for all these years since. The recent rise has been due to western infusion of capital to make product for them at a cheaper rate than anywhere else. the rise is not due to innovation or creativity, rather it is due to copy and duplication. They steal and copy other nations' technology, innovations, intellectual property, advancements, achievements more than any other single nation on earth. Where would china be without western money and jobs that has built this country from dire poverty. If the west pulled out where would this country be? The economy would collapse. It could not stand on its own and would lapse into decline once again by its inability to feed itself without help. It does not have one industry that it leads in except the manufacturing of toys that the US buys 80% of the entire output. But the designs for ther big ticket toys are of US design anyway, not chinese. Several years ago, a computer scientist at Jiao Tong University claimed he invented a super chip. president hu hailed this man a hero of china and gave him the highest medal of honor that a chinese can receive and astonishing rewards financial and otherwise. Then a year later, last year, it was discovered that the scientist stole the super chip from Texas Instruments and hired guys from dalian to scratch off the TI logo.

When I was at Jiao Tong, I asked all these students for their comments. Not one said anything about it being wrong or condemned it as unethical or immoral, only that that the stupid guy got caught and that it was common place at the chinese universities for faculty and researchers to do the same things. They weren't surprised or horrified in the least. Plagiarism at the universities is so widespread its jaw dropping. The emphasis is on results not on process and honesty of research.

This is typical.

mtlyorel:

When you live next to a volatile 800 lb gorilla who has 700 missiles pointing at you, you need to tread carefully, prudently, and pragmatically. The Taiwanese have no love of China, and neither do most other Asian countries.

China has been Taiwan's most vociferous critic and bully, in fact, the two sides are still officially at war. Olive branches mean nothing to a regime that sees little value in keeping its word or sacrificing its people for the greater good of the Party (the Chinese history under the communist regime is littered with failed utopian movements that starved or killed hundreds of thousands).

That being said, it didn't stop the US from seeking closer ties with the USSR during the Cold War era. To quote from a high school myspace teenage beauty queen, 'you keep your enemies close' and like Sun-Tze has said eons ago, 'to know your enemy is to win all wars'. Sleeping with your enemy beats the hell out of being shot by an unknown bullet.

Luvfest?? Pomfret has been drinking too much Maotai from Chungnanhai.

Michael Turton:

+++++


Michael,

I am glad to see you have such a firm grasp of "facts". Just remember: it's all the media.
+++++

Raoul:

Anytime you want to discuss facts or show where I have erred, you go right ahead. But you seem to have settled on insults, so there really isn't any place for us to dialogue in. Sad.

BTW, you might try my blog some time, where you can abuse me to your heart's content. (name: The View from Taiwan). It is, in the words of a reporter in Taipei who just emailed me yesterday, "doing a terrific job in reminding readers of facts often forgotten by the mainstream media." Probably just another brainwashed more-DPP-than-the-DPP foreigner, eh?

Michael Turton

Why?:

Many Chinese always say that Westerns, including American, do not understand China, or Chinese culture. But what does it mean “understand China”? Do those people really understand Western culture or American culture? For sure, there are way more Chinese know English or other European languages than American or European knows Chinese. But does merely know the language sufficient enough for “understanding”?

Anon:

I'm sorry folks... call me a simpleton... but would you please explain to me why Taiwan and China need to talk about unification and closer ties?

From all I can see in the news and from the conversation above... China is the aggressor and it is entirely China that is threatening Taiwan and so Taiwan MUST negotiate. Very one sided from the neophyte angle. Isn't Taiwan doing fine on its own... no worse than other Asian nations?

If Taiwan is doing fine and China is doing fine... why do they care about a political union? Does it matter?

This has to be one of the most nonsensical issues.

truth serum:

I would like to hear a chinese blogger here exclaim from the bottom of his or her heart that they would wholeheartedly support and follow a president of china who is from one of the 56 minorities, Tibet, or Taiwainese or woman. That they support the very idea completely. Otherwise, those people would not be real chinese would they? Come on, Ronald, tell everyone here and on chinese blogs just how much you want a minority for your chinese president. Tell the world! Here is your big chance... we are all waiting. And post it on chinese blogs too not just this american one that you love to scream on. We're waiting...and any other chinese too...

Anonymous:

A historic day like today in America makes me proud that a black man can become a presidential candidate. It clearly shows that our system is both evolving and working. But can a Taiwanese or Tibet minority become president of china? Will the han permit it, ever? Can even a chinese woman? Everyone here in china says no. You say Taiwan and Tibet are part of china but with clear reduced roles and opportunities than han chinese mainlanders.

Raoul:

Michael,

I am glad to see you have such a firm grasp of "facts". Just remember: it's all the media.

Michael Turton:

++++
I have lived in Taiwan, too, and met several of those who adopted Taiwan as home, and for some reason felt the need to out-DPP the DPP. Your residence in Taiwan does not qualify you for sainthood or particularly clear vision.
+++++

LOL. Sorry to have pestered you with facts. Next time I'll stick to the media narrative, so your head doesn't explode.

Raoul:

p.s. to Ronald. Your rhetoric really is reminiscent of 1930s style fascism regarding the demise of democracy. Honestly, you might want to read up on it. Perhaps start with Mussolini.

Shawn:

so Mr. Pomfrets are not happy about what's happening between China and Taiwan?

Whatever:

The rise of the Chinese economy and the development of the asia economic circle will move Taiwan (and asian countries) away from the US and towards China. This trend is not based on politics, but on economics.
Right now, Ma and most of Taiwan people are doing whats best for the Taiwan economically and integrating with the Chinese economy, hoping that in the future a political situation for both China and Taiwan to resolve their political differences. That is both the risk and oppertunity they decide to take.

China:

Everybody’s talking all this stuff about me
Why don’t they just let me live? (TELL ME WHY)
I don’t need permission, make my own decisions (OH!)
That’s my prerogative
That’s my prerogative!

if you are less understanding and insightful than Britney Spears, you really should stop talking.

Raoul:

Ronald,

I was just asking for your version of "democracy", or "authoritarianism" if you like, or whatever your vision is. I was waiting with baited breathe to see if you could do anything other than sling garbage. For a brief moment, as I was brushing my teeth, I thought, "maybe Ronald will actually say something that he thought up himself." And my spirits were buoyed ever so slightly....alas.


Anonymous:

WE, TAIWAN, vote Ma by landslide to be our next president to smooth the relationship with China.

understanding:

there is an obvious, servere and dangrous misunderstanding / mistrust / lack of willingness to listen. you r pro-independance, so be it; pro-democracy, so be it; pro-china, so be it. whatever you are, it does NOT mean that you can't listen and see where the OTHER side comes from, maybe THEN a civilized, focused, name-calling-less blog will appear.

assume less, think more. amen + 南沃阿密陀夫。

Ronald:

Michael:
Look at the Balkin, Russia India and the US. Separatist movement always lead to bloody war. I have no idea whether you are Taiwanese or Americans. However, your stand on Taiwan seems to be harder than Chen. You keep saying "We, Taiwan". Do you have a citizenship card yet ?

Hu Zemin:

My point,

Democracy and Confucianism can coexist in Taiwan pretty well.

So one is not a replacement for the other.

Raoul:

Michael Turton,

I was pointing to the "international media" refrain in your post; it sounds like the standard mainlander response to facts that don't easily fit within strongly held preconceptions.

I have lived in Taiwan, too, and met several of those who adopted Taiwan as home, and for some reason felt the need to out-DPP the DPP. Your residence in Taiwan does not qualify you for sainthood or particularly clear vision.

But I appreciate your feedback.

I heart taiwan:

____0000000000______0000000000_____
__000________000__000________000___
_000___________0000___________000__
000_____________00_____________000_
000____________________________000_
000___________TAIWAN___________000_
_000_______ PEACE WITH ________000_
__000______NOT PIECE OF_______000__
___000_________CHINA_________000___
_____000___________________000_____
_______000______________000________
_________000__________000__________
____________000____000_____________
______________00__00_______________
________________00_________________
_______________ 0 _________________

Ronald:

Raqul:
Get this through your head. Western Democracy is on the way down. A new way is being sought. Read Pomfret's last blog "Book Review". You are just uncomfortable when I point out the Western Democracy is not the best way and far from the only way.

Anonymous:

++++++++++
The limits would be, in my opinion, no separatist movement
+++++++++

So actually, "free speech" in your view means only speech whose political principles you agree with. Right.

Taiwan independence is not a separatist movement. That is mere a Chinese propaganda claim. Taiwan has never been part of any state ruled by a Chinese emperor. Half the island was once controlled by the Manchus, but until after WWII, it was never considered part of China. When Chiang Kai-shek proclaimed China unified in 1927, nobody asked him where Taiwan was, because nobody thought of it as part of China.

Michael

Anonymous:

Ronald spin it anyway you want. You display your ignorance and lies for all to see. Thank you for your reply! But unlike you, my sources are the actual and real chinese mothers themselves who told me about your corrupt doctors. You conveniently change the subject from my topic to some blog about a doctor who went to the earthquake site. Your dishonest and namecalling says so much more about you than it ever will about me. Tell you what. why don't you have the courage to ask 10 mothers about what I said today and then come back with you lies instead of getting your information from your blogs.

It was so heartwarming to see all the pics of chinese police dragging grieving parents off to jail to punish them for protesting your corrupt building practices that led to 10,000 children dying. Wghat a great society china is! But thats just western media photoshop spin I guess. hahaha

I am safe in saying that I probably know your country physically better than you, as most chinese always tell me this fact, since I have now been to 14 provinces and over 100 cities here. Additionally, chinese tell me that they are impressed wit what I know of your past and present as well and are not threatened by me as you seem to be by the truth I tell. I get my facts from real people not attention starved bloggers like you cite! what an uneducated moron you make yourself sound like. Go away little boy and grow up.

Michael Turton:

++++
I'm basing my observations from what I read in the Taiwan media, both pan-Green and pan-Blue aligned. Your Western media conspiracy sounds a bit like the standard mainlander complaint. Nice chatting with you anyway.
++++

Yes, it must have sucked when I started trotting out actual numbers. Reality is a painful and surprising experience. No wonder you accused me of being conspiratorial.

What actually happened in Taiwan during the 2000s under Chen is quite interesting --

-- transitioning from manufacturing to knowledge economy
-- transitioning from strongly socialized, government heavy economy to more free market system.
-- KMT-controlled legislature killed infrastructure spending which caused incomes in local areas to plummet, then refused for years to pass stimulus bill. China made things worse by cutting off our gravel supply in 2006, forcing many projects to halt. Our domestic political economy here runs on gravel. If you ever really want to understand Taiwan, follow the flows of gravel.
-- factories moving to China and the hollowing out of the industrial base.

Taiwan's economy is actually doing pretty well, considering.

And I don't just read the freakin' media. I live here, and have been pretty much since 1989.

Michael

Raoul:

So what kind of "democracy" exactly are you talking about, Ronald?

Ronald:

Raqul:
I knew you would say something like that. Open society and accountable government implicitely means freedom with limits (free speech in included). The limits would be, in my opinion, no separatist movement and no terrorist acitivites. I did not say the current structure of government of China is perfect. I just said the democracy US is trying put down China's throat, is nothing but a bunch of bull. You guys should be aware of this. When a country like the US ask you to do something, that cannot be good for you because in big power politic, countries only take care of their national interest and nobody else. Don't be naive. China would do the same in a similar situation.

democra-see, democra-do:

demacracy has worked (well, i guess you can argue about it....after all, half of the people living in the US can't vote, and majority of the other half does not vote) when and only when A) people are educated enough,
B) they have enough money that they won't find it natural to put their voting ballet on eBay,
C) you have the infrastructure to allow for a meaningful election,
D) people give a crap about politics
E) some1 somehow incooperates the concept of "manadate of heaven" into democracy so people don't think democracy is THAT crazy an idea
F) democratic countries (like US....well, u know, we r supposed to be democratic) act responsibly in the world to show that our government isn't a big annoying hated bully
G) we stop electing (and reelecting) people like bush into office

that list is MOST DEFINATELY not all-inclusive, but those circumstances will make a full-scale democracy much more likely. some of those factors are out of our control, but many are not. proud anti-chinese, Sneaky, Raoul et al., why don't yall start DOING some of those things rather than pointlessly bashing china?

Raoul:

Michael Turton,

I'm basing my observations from what I read in the Taiwan media, both pan-Green and pan-Blue aligned. Your Western media conspiracy sounds a bit like the standard mainlander complaint. Nice chatting with you anyway.

Javier:

Pomfret, who pays you more: Xinhua or the WaPo?

Raoul:

So, Ronald, you prefer a system of governance in which individuals will be forbidden from spouting nonsense at will? Hmmm...in your case, it might be appropriate.

Anonymous:

+++++++
I never thought removing missiles qualified as "symbolic". It seems rather concrete. Hmm...relation are "excellent"...interesting point of view.
+++++++

Yes, well, if relations are not good, why the massive investment and mutual tourism, etc? Why the artistic and cultural exchanges? Why the business and technology investments? The Taiwan-China relationship doesn't fall into easy dichotomies.

+++++++
But you simultaneously suggest that cross-Strait "tension" is a psychological ploy aimed at the international media, while you decry the military buildup across the Strait. This is a bit hard to grasp. Isn't the military hardware a very real source of tension?
++++++++

It's a real source of tension in a sense, but how often do you see it portrayed in the media as a source of tension? For every media mention of China's military buildup, there are ten accusing Chen of being "provocative." Plus the real source of tension isn't the existence of hardware but the existence of the intention to use it. That is my point and the Taipei Time's point -- the "tension" will exist as along as China threatens to murder Taiwan's citizens in order to possess their land. It hardly matters what specific weapons they possess, or how many.

+++++++
Also, do you remember China's threats against tai-shang who publicly announced their pan-Green affiliations? This would suggest there is some real "tension" in the immediate area. Also, the term "excellent" certainly doesn't apply to the Taiwan economy over the course of Chen's term. I'm not sure where you got your rosy scenario.
++++++++

Probably because I don't live in media reality, but instead, in the evidence driven world. In that world, we are the number 2 exporter to Taiwan. In that world the Taiwan economy grew at a 4.5% clip through the Chen years, including 4.9 and 5.7% the last two years. In that world unemployment here is under 4%. In that world the real problem is stagnant wages caused by the transition to a knowledge driven economy and by the movement of factories to China. In that world the Chen government could only do little because the KMT held up dozens of crucial bills in the legislature. My "rosy scenarios" seem so weird only because the discussion in the media is so bizarrely out of touch with reality.

And yes I remember the threats against the Taishang. Do you recall that nothing actually happened to them?

+++++
Will removing some missile solve the issue? Of course not. But an you magically cause the post-49 obsession with reunification to dissolve into thin air?
++++++

No, nor did I say I could -- just the opposite, I called for real, incremental progress on the issues.

+++++
In an ideal world, the mainland would allow Taiwan to be independent without a fuss and we would all go home. But that's not today.
++++++

Right. And this should stop us from working toward that goal because....?

++++++++++
Today, China and Taiwan can start talking about reducing missiles, and about increasing transportation -- which the vast majority of businesspeople on Taiwan believe will improve the country's economy. (Yes, restrictions on migration of certain high-tech sectors maintained, of course.)
+++++++

Agreed. Businessmen love the idea of moving their business back and forth. Will that be good for Taiwan? No, but the businessmen will make tons of money.

++++++
China was unfair to Chen, and had a pathological distrust of the guy. But his bombast certainly didn't help.
++++++

Here's a good example -- what bombast are you referring to? And please explain how threatening to plunge the region into war because Taipei is having a referendum is not "bombast." Chen staked out a clear position which Beijing did its level best to get the international media to patronize and denigrate. Yet Chen said exactly the same things about China that Estonia said about Russia (but the western media ate that up). The difference is that Beijing does a much better job of controlling the western media than Moscow ever did, and in shaping the discourse on Taiwan.

+++++
I sincerely doubt Ma Ying-jeou is interested in selling Taiwan down the river. And he was, after all, freely elected by the people of Taiwan to negotiate their future.
++++++

ROFL. Ma's whole political career has been spent suppressing the independent sovereignty movement here. He's a pro-China ideologue to the core. His administration is set up with this in mind -- with Ma and Su Chi, both pro-China mainlanders, in charge of a China-centric foreign policy and the Executive Yuan, composed of technocrats, running the domestic side. But more importantly, he's not in control of either his party or the negotiations -- the Old Guard are. And the people elected Ma to "fix" the economy by moving closer to China, not to use the economy as an excuse to lever Taiwan into China's arms. Big disjunct.

Michael Turton

Ronald:

democra-see, democra-do

Don't even try to import democracy from the West. It is an over-rated political system that is on its way down. Haven't you guys had enough of imported Western ideas. Communism for one. In Taiwan, fist fight in parliment, vote-buying and non-existed unbiased media make the so-called democracy a joke. Corruption is so rampaged that the new government has to put corruption fighting on the top of their what-to-do list. Open society and accountable government can be achieved without all those BS. The world can not have another government behaving like the US. There is another prevailing rumor that the government of Taiwan is not decided in Taiwan by voters, but by politicians in Washington. Go figure that one out. In Hong Kong, "The Democratic Party of Hong Kong" used to go to US congress to report the political progress in Hong Kong in person every year. They stopped when voters started to question their strange behavior. Isn't that something ? Someday, you guys may have to report to US congress in person every year. LOL

Anonymous:

Chen,

So...you want to destroy Taiwan's democracy?

Raoul:

Michael Turton,

I never thought removing missiles qualified as "symbolic". It seems rather concrete. Hmm...relation are "excellent"...interesting point of view.

I agree that one of the mainland's greatest successes is in setting the terms of the debate over the cross-Strait issue, and trying to get the US to restrain the Chen administration.

But you simultaneously suggest that cross-Strait "tension" is a psychological ploy aimed at the international media, while you decry the military buildup across the Strait. This is a bit hard to grasp. Isn't the military hardware a very real source of tension? Also, do you remember China's threats against tai-shang who publicly announced their pan-Green affiliations? This would suggest there is some real "tension" in the immediate area. Also, the term "excellent" certainly doesn't apply to the Taiwan economy over the course of Chen's term. I'm not sure where you got your rosy scenario.

Will removing some missile solve the issue? Of course not. But an you magically cause the post-49 obsession with reunification to dissolve into thin air? In an ideal world, the mainland would allow Taiwan to be independent without a fuss and we would all go home. But that's not today.

Today, China and Taiwan can start talking about reducing missiles, and about increasing transportation -- which the vast majority of businesspeople on Taiwan believe will improve the country's economy. (Yes, restrictions on migration of certain high-tech sectors maintained, of course.)

China was unfair to Chen, and had a pathological distrust of the guy. But his bombast certainly didn't help. I sincerely doubt Ma Ying-jeou is interested in selling Taiwan down the river. And he was, after all, freely elected by the people of Taiwan to negotiate their future.


Ronald:

Raqul:
You are going to love this.
Today, Chinese government arranged another tour of Tibetan monastery, the same site that outburst of discontent from young monks, embarassed the hell out of the government. This time, the same young Lama that complained, came out and apologzed for the outburst. He said he just repeat what he heard from the broadcast from India. When pressed by reporters for more detail, the young guy just choked up and went away. CCP has a very bad PR department. Those guys got to be fired. Stupid always does what stupids do. What a bunch of idiots.

democra-see, democra-do:

or so would be the case if the chinese were monkeys. you say china needs democracy, you say it is corrupted, you say the government, in a nutshell, is evil, but how do i know it is true? Aren't the ruins of Hurricane Katrina still visible everywhere in the land of the free? rn't the "communist authortirians" on the front line, saving lives, pouring blood and sweat, and did the reconstruction already begin? to put it in prospective, FEMA has barely got ready to send a team to evaluate the situation.

and exactly what do you want to see before you start acknowleging that china is on its way to be a democracy? local elections? (check) democratic processes (such as the People's Congress) allowing regular citizens to familarize themselves with the concept? (check) freer media? (check...maybe debateable, but i see a lot of improvements since Mao) education that prep the people to take charge? (check)...

you can't achieve democracy in one day. you can't impose it on others neither. look at Iraq. anyone truly concerned with the wealfare of the people will praise the government for its graduate but sure steps improving the average chinese lives.

Hu Zemin:

Chen, you said
"Confucian concepts, for us, are far superior"
"We do not need to import any Western Imperialist practices"

It seems:

The previous Qing dynasty government also used Confucian concepts.

Communist ideology is also a western import.

Michael Turton:

++++
You seem to be an aficionado of the all-or-nothing school of diplomacy. What, then, do you see as a positive "step" toward improved relations across the Strait?
++++

What a strange accusation -- I ask for concrete rather than symbolic progress, and you accuse me of being all or nothing!

Relations across the Strait are already excellent, Raoul. We've got $200 billion invested in China, tourists coming every day, and thousands of Taiwanese living there. China is our biggest market and we are its number 2 exporter.

It's important to recall that much of the "tension" is a construct aimed at controlling the international media and at influencing Washington to put pressure on Taipei. Beijing never takes concrete moves against Taiwan in its own sphere -- it never restricts the movements of Taiwanese businessmen, never arrests them en masse, and so on. In other words, the "tension" largely takes place in the international media rather than in the real world, and its purpose was to paint former corporate lawyer and center-right nationalist Chen Shui-bian as a "radical." Now that Chen is not in office and Beijing faces the pliable Ma Ying-jeou, who appears to have been bypassed by the pro-China KMT elites who detest him, it is relaxing this posture.

Hence, when you talk about "improved relations" the very concept you have of "improved relations" is a construct that is inherently pro-China because that construct sees peace on China's terms, not in terms of advancements for democracy and independence on both sides. "Improved relations" for me means that each side horse trades and gets something on its own terms, not that the KMT simply sells the island out to China for nothing at all. The DPP offered real improved relations, because it beat out useful deals with China when it could and restricted its influence on Taiwan, preserving our industrial base and keeping Chinese workers out. The KMT is planning to reverse these sensible policies, followed by all the nations around China, in exchange for....?

Michael Turton

Ronald:

Raqul:
I mean peacful unification in whatever form it takes. Somebody even suggested a form of a united China with two soverign states within which Taiwan and China are on equal status. KMT may end up running China one day through general election. War was the last resort to stop Taiwan from separating from China. I really believe that the threat of war from China has successfully stopped Taiwan from being Balkinized. In 1980+ I met some of the radical supporters of DPP. They talked about ethic cleansing openly if they gain powers. They gave me historical evidence that Taiwanese are not Chinese. They belong to a more superior race. They will banish Chinese language and re-create a new written langage along the line of Janpanese.

Chen:

Hu Zemin:

"Democracy", as commonly described, is a western concept. Confucian concepts, for us, are far superior.

We do not need to import any Western Imperialist practices, now that we have our act together.

Raoul:

Michael Turton,

You seem to be an aficionado of the all-or-nothing school of diplomacy. What, then, do you see as a positive "step" toward improved relations across the Strait?

For Ronald:
"China wants peaceful unification whatever it takes. War is just the last, I mean the last resort." This makes absolutely no sense. Please look at what you wrote.

ff:

"Even if they have developed, I just don't see them as exerting any hegemonistic intentions because they just do not have that kind of culture and mindset."

Uhh... what in the hell are you talking about?

Also, what's with all the txt-speak in this blog post? "luv" and "biznez?"

Hu Zemin:

Let Taiwan remain status quo until China develops democracy.

Ronald:

Michael Turton

From your name, I would guess that you are neither a Chinese mainlander, or a Chinese Taiwanese. I don't know why you are taking such a pro-Chen position. Are you one of those lobbyist working for the arm merchants from the US.
China does not hate Taiwan. They hate Chan for his policy. China wants peaceful unification whatever it takes. War is just the last, I mean the last resort. I guess if there is a real peace between Taiwan and China, you will lose your job.

thomas:

Peace across the straits is good for the globe. China right now is too occupied with catching up with other countries economically to be a military threat to anyone.

Even if they have developed, I just don't see them as exerting any hegemonistic intentions because they just do not have that kind of culture and mindset.

Michael Turton:

+++++++
The promise of missile cuts is a good thing. China is not about to reverse its policy on reunification; but this seems like a move toward moderation, one which should be encouraged. I imagine Taiwan will follow a Reagan-esque "trust, but verify" approach.
+++++++

It's not a bad thing, more like an irrelevant thing. Nice to see, but the real threat is in the hundreds of advanced aircraft and rapidly modernizing naval forces, not in a few hundred missiles. Even if China cuts them by 50% -- which it won't -- there will still be 00s of missiles facing us here in Taiwan. And money that China takes out of missiles will simply be invested in other threats to the island and its democratic and independent future.

Michael

Michael Turton:

Here's why I view the WHO thing with such skepticism:

From a blog from a doctor with WHO:

In the course of our research on these areas outside the global surveillance system we obtained a copy of a memorandum of understanding between the WHO and the PRC that set out the circumstances in which contact with Taiwan could take place. While it was an honest attempt by the WHO to make things work, the guidance was totally inappropriate for dealing with an emergency. Permission had to be sought from the Chinese contact point in Geneva 5 weeks in advance of making contact. The PRC contact point could decide which Taiwanese experts should be contacted. If Taiwanese experts were invited to technical meetings an expert of similar status should be included. Taiwanese citizens were not permitted to attend WHO meetings as members of NGO delegations. Most bizarrely, because writing “Taiwan” on an envelope (necessary if it was to reach its destination) would imply recognition of its independence in the view of the PRC, all paper communications had to be faxed.

Raoul:

The promise of missile cuts is a good thing. China is not about to reverse its policy on reunification; but this seems like a move toward moderation, one which should be encouraged. I imagine Taiwan will follow a Reagan-esque "trust, but verify" approach.

fyi: for some perspective on "Ronald", please see his postings on the blog entry for "China's Earthquake Chief."

Michael Turton:

LOL. As the Taipei Times noted yesterday:

"Wu’s optimism about a possible reduction in missiles, meanwhile, is gullibility at its most extreme. For one, even if China were to dismantle or redirect some of its missiles, the fact remains that hundreds would still be aimed this way. One missile — and the threat to use it — is one too many. Furthermore, quantitative cuts mean very little when they could easily be offset by the increasing precision of those still active. In other words, as long as the intent to use missiles against Taiwan exists, talk of cuts is meaningless."

This news on the missiles comes from a KMT spokesman, so I look forward to confirmation from more reliable sources. Shame that China hadn't grown up 15 years ago and never started its aggressive missile confrontation in the Taiwan Strait. In any case, as the Taipei Times notes, the threat to a democratic Taiwan hasn't abated. Already the government has gone through and returned "China" to the names that Chen had restored "Taiwan" to. As I noted, it is far more likely that China will change Taiwan's political system for the worse than Taiwan will change China's for the better....

BTW, China isn't handing this to "Taiwan." China hates "Taiwan" intensely. This concession is being given by one Leninist Chinese party to another.

Where is the report on WHO participation from? That would be good news indeed, if it offers meaningful participation and a status of our own.

Michael

Ronald:

whatever
I think you got the doctor-patient thing upside down. There was a blog about this situation.
A young doctor complained that his patient forced him to accept money under the table. A old doctor told him that is the way most patients in China are. If you don't accept money under the table, they would think you are not doing your best to help them. The young doctor said I would do my best even without money. The older doctor said that as long as they initiate the payment, you should accept it. Otherwise, they will be worrying sick. I am sure that some doctor would demand money before they do anything. It would be a absolute minority. The same thing could happen in US as well. Do be such a stupid ass. You do not know about China as much as you think you do.
On the news today, a doctor got fired from her work because she went to quake zone to help without permission. Does she look like a person who would demand money before she does anything for her patient. Who is going to pay her under the table at the quake zone. You are a real idiot.

Pedro:

Actually, China today seem somewhat like Brazil or Argentina in the late 1960s-70s: an authoritarian regime with the support of the middle classes in favor of rapid industrialization (and keeping the workers and farmers down). China seems to be handling the tensions generated by this model better than Brazil and Argentina, but one might keep in mind the limited life-span of the Latin American authoritarian predecessors.

Tracy:

This is our Chinese's fortune. we cant lose Taiwan and we also want democracy.so mailand and taiwan together will be only way for Chinese's happy future.

Tracy:

This is our Chinese's fortune. we cant lost Taiwan and we also want democracy.so mailand and taiwan gogether will be only way for Chinese's happy future.

Independent:


The leaders of China are primarily interested in maintaining their political power and promoting economic growth in their country. "Communist" China is the most blatant oxymoron in the world. The Communist party should change its name to the Capitalist party, doing so would be more accurate, as well as a major PR achievement.

China is close to what the United States economy was like about eighty years ago, with business interests dominant, the government favoring corporations, weak unions, little regard for worker's rights, minimal concern for consumer safety and widespread neglect of the environment. The Republican party in this country and the "Communist" party in China are natural allies, in terms of economic ideology, as practiced, as opposed to false theoretical ideology, Therefore little surprise China's "Communist" leaders seem willing to abandon any interest in Taiwan forcibly rejoining the mainland or in retrieving Chinese cultural treasures taken by the Nationalist forces from China to Taiwan.

Business interests come first and Taiwan seems to have gotten just about everything it could have realistically expected from this tentative "deal," if it becomes actual. The business oriented leaders of China are people Republicans who represent corporations above all and many Democrats, who are about the same, can do business with.

Sneaky:

Wait for Taiwan to accept the pair of Trojan pandas which former President Chen feared could slowly weaken Taiwanese independence movement,
"Tuan Tuan" and "Yuan Yuan"

"Tuan" "Yuan" as a word means reunion in Mandarin.

mistrustful American:

or should I rename myself "proud anti-chinese"....all mean the same thing anyway.

china likes Ma, likes the nationalists, and likes peace. the US-style world-policing, military-intervention-at-will has got US into depressions and depreciation, and no reasonable gov would follow suit. China def. wants to be peaceful.

so let the luv fest roll!

proud anti-chinese:

WOWOWOWOWOW! NOT SO FAST MY DEAR!!

I think we all know that Chinese are famous for changing their mind very quick.

Until Beijing 2008 there will be no real politics with China. The real chinese forign politics with forigners will start first after the olympics. before that enjoy the firework of chinese nazism, love. keep smile and wave. keep smile and wave.

James:

Wait for direct flights in July before proclaiming any sort of 'luv-fest.'

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