Comments (99)

Some previous posts have mentioned that the democratic process practiced in ancient Greece was only available to the Assembly, which was the only body entitled to vote.

Likewise, China's National People's Congress has a voting process to select the next President.

Apparently, Whitepuppet has the power to define "blackness". Nice.

whitepuppet:

Jessi and Al have a lot of ham for the camera, and they have done some wonderful things. But they don't appeal to everyone even within their own race or political party.

Some folks don't agree, and I don't agree with them. Some folks like Rush and sometimes we've got to agree to disagree. Barack bridges the gap between the two.

Do YOU even engage in the democratic process or do you just have ONE party replete with slogans and jingoisms?

You can't lay it all to race, that's a side issue here. We have racists and so do you...take note down the column here to see crap with White Supremacist accusations blanketly aimed at Americans as a whole.

New Mexico has an Hispanic governor who was in the presidential race. From my state, our two senators are Asian.

My wife is from Mexico. We have friends of all races. I wouldn't vote for either Jesse or Al, not because they're black or I'm white, but rather I don't feel either would make very good presidents. Obama will be one of our GREAT presidents.

@HiloBob:

Barack Obama is "Black"? holly cow I didnt know that ... Come back when Jessi or Al Sharpton becomes president.

In Wikipedia :
Hu was appointed Party Chief of the Tibet Autonomous Region in 1988, during a time of political instability and was responsible for a political crackdown in early 1989 in Tibet.
The British media network BBC alleged that he was believed to have been involved in the 1989 unexpected death of the Panchen Lama, Tibet's second highest religious leader, an allegation supposedly stemming from hearsay of common Tibetans.
Hu's stance in Tibet attracted attention from the Central Government in Beijing and was further promoted by the Government.

In 1982, Hu was promoted to the position of Communist Youth League Gansu Branch Secretary.
In 1982, Hu was transferred to Beijing and appointed as secretariat of the Communist Youth League Central Committee ("CY Central").
Two years later Hu was promoted to First Secretary of CY Central, thus its actual leader.

Hu is ruling PRC's real world.
His faithful young followers(CYLC) is ruling PRC's cyber world(sometimes Western's cyber world).

If they will rule PRC the same way as they has ruled, Can Tibetan(Uyghur) become Chinese's Friends or Enemies?

Rymnd2008 said : When will USA elect its FIRST president from ethnic minority? ... Under these conditions, the chance, USA will ever elect a president from ethnic minority is pretty slim... Yes of course you can run but you will NEVER win.

I want to say : PRC will never ELECT a president(CCP's frist secretary in province(autonomy) and Military, Police chief as well) from 200 ethnic minorities even in their Autonomy(Colony?) regions. Yes of course, not to mention winning, you can never run.

To jiaming
Wikipedia says : Amdo is one of the three traditional provinces of Tibet, the other two being Ü-Tsang and Kham; it is also the birth place of Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama. While culturally and ethnically a Tibetan area, Amdo has been administered by a series of local rulers in recent centuries. Since the Chinese Communist party invasion into Amdo in the 1950's, Amdo has been annexed into Gansu, Sichuan and Qinghai.

To China's one child policy
I agree to your commnet "Little Emperors". But I want to say more "Little Imperialists".

I heard that many Manju and Zhuang people living in PRC feel happy, but Uyghur(East Turkestan) and Tibetan people do not feel happy in PRC.

It seems that CCP members adhering to oppressive and crafty policies on Uyghur(Tibet) could succeed in CCP as Hu Jintao has been on a fast track since he(CCP's first secretary in Tibet) ordered discharge on Tibetans in 1989 (right before Tiananmen Square protests of 1989).

When I heard Uyghur(Tibet) and Manju(Zhuang), a Aesop Fable "The North Wind and the Sun" came to my mind.

I think that the more Hu and his followers(tens of millions of young tuanpai(Communist Youth League of China)) adhere to their oppressive and crafty policies on Uyghur(Tibet), the more Uyghur(Tibetan) cherish resentment against Chinese.

Wikipedia says : With some groups, such as the Tibetans and the Uyghurs, there is some resentment against the majority. Other groups such as the Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, and Koreans are well integrated into the national community.

Hypocrite2 said:

"I know Western language and culture, I don't like the West.

I come and live in the West, I don't like the West.

I work and play in the West, I don't like the West."

May 9, 2008 7:51 PM

There is an easy solution to your problem...DRY YOUR TEARS, LEAVE, and DON'T COME BACK.

To hypocrite1 May 10, 2008 9:23 AM:

"DUDE"!!

What is ridiculous is your incomprehensible inability to understand what I said about the Tuskegee Experiment. As I said, it was a HORRIFIC part of our PAST. I'll go slooowly here so it's easier for you.

There..was..a..time..when..blacks..were
..considered..inferior..now..one..is..running..for
..president..I'm..going..to..vote..for..him..

And by the way, you have to admit as a physician that waterboarding as interrogation technique is infinitely healthier than a bullet to the back of the head for not paying your taxes.

It's still cheaper than the fancy new execution buses you use to kill a person a day on average. Stepping up in the world aren't we??

ohboytheyjustgrowfromtrees wrote: May 10 8:44 a.m.

"@HiloBob:

where did you come up with such a long stinky piece of sh/t? brainwashed by commie is unfortunate, brainwashed by wing-nuts is pathetic."

I guess it's easy to respond to a short stinky piece of sh/t.

Brainwash no good for YOU. You no can make argument. You argue with self and LOSE. You got plenty nuts loose.

rymnd2008:

Ho brother, you don't get out much. It looks like not only will Barack Obama, our first black man to run for president, get the Democratic nomination, all polls in the U.S. predict he'll beat the Republican John McCain by a large margin.

How about that Politburo...How many minorities are on it out of a billion of YOU??!!

Most of the Chinese posters here are only child, so-called "Little Emperors".

Wonder if that affects the mental development?

You guys should accept this fact: most of the Chinese citizens inside and outside China currently support their government. So ...that's their choice. Let them be ... One government's legistemacy should only be decided by their own people, no matter it is communism or monarchy or democracy.

If your government can lead a 30 years double digit economical growth, can they get your support?

To Troyce key: Your use of sensational words "blood thirsty", "millions", "invasion of surrounding countries" come only from your mouth and, if they are so serious, are not even raised and debated in UN. That means your accusation is just baloney. Keep on chanting those useless words. They only derange your mind. The only country that are now at war with foreign countries is USA. Since you raise no objection to what i said in my previous post, i consider you agree with my view. I hope you understand.

It is nice to notice scottish want to independent, and the England PM Gordon Brown pledged to do "whatever is necessary" to preserve the English rule.

Free Scotland~

A lot of people think that the issue with CHina stems from "human rights" or CCP or etc... The really nasty issue is the lack of women. Remember, 40 million of these male youths uner 30 will not be able to find wives, not to mention keep them. The sex ratio is nuts. Plus, a lot of young chinese women find themselves better off with older, financially capable chinese men, or westerners, who treat them better, with more attention, affection, and commitment. A lot of these young males have been spoiled, drink, gamble, cheat, and are difficult to marry, as they get divorced soon, when the women finally realize they are married to a child. Let's face it, a lot of these youths will never have a true relationship, the best they can do is "paid" temporary relationships, from chinese girls who are either slaves to "fashine" or actual "sex" slaves. With a 40 million difference and over 10 million in the sex industry, plus millions dating or mistresses to older men, plus hundread's of thousands trying to find western husbands, plus the young and divorced, that most chinese will not want to marry? The difference actually is probably more like 60 to 70 million chinese men under 30 without a real life partner. Now that is scarry. Crime, selfishness, aggression, drinking, gambling, etc...

Taiwan's DDP government stopped the Olympic torch from going thru Taiwan, and the incoming KMT government is redeeming itself by accepting the panda gifts.

On hindsight though, not having the torch relay in Taiwan is good, because there are many Tibetan exiles living there who have the support of the Taiwanese.

To Chinese looking for solution:

You are right. Mainland China and Taiwan must work out a better framework than this winner takes all situation, where the mainland is giving Taiwan no breathing room diplomatically. The corrupt, pro-independence DDP government destroyed any trust between the two sides. Hopefully, the KMT administration can restore some of the mutual confidence between them. No meaningful negotiations can take place if any one side have a deep mistrust for the other. This is the same with Taiwan as it is with Tibet.

To PHOEPA,

"Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism."

By this standard, Qinghai and Gansu and all those other provinces that you and the Dalai Lama claim are definitely not Tibet. Look it up. By the way, Qinghai was under the Qing dynasty's control since 1724.

This is exactly my point. Instead of fighting for the freedom to practice Tibetan buddhism which includes the Dalai Lama, you are claiming every territory that has ever been part of Tibet in history. That is like the Mongolians claiming Eastern Europe.

I am actually conflicted about this diplomatic game on recognition of one China. If I am a Taiwanese, I would not have any diplomats in many countries providing me some very basis service. Would I be happy?

Burkina Faso, El Salvador, Belize, Nauru, Palau, Tuvalu, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Paraguay, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Panama, the Vatican, Swaziland, Malawi, Sao Tome and Principe, Haiti, Gambia and St. Kitts and Nevis

To PHOEPA: “Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism.” If this concept is generalized in the world, I am pretty sure that we will create more conflicts in more countries. Just a couple quick questions, do you think that Iraq should be divided then?
How about Northern Irland?

I read a blog post and find the argument quite interesting on why people in China are not trusting that Tibetans are only seeking autonomy:

"With the imagination that American and the west would support them economically, I think that the Tibetan independence would continue regardless what the CCP would do, western style democracy included. Just look at the Quebec independence movement, they almost succeeded in 1995: the "no to independence" camp won, but only by a very small margin — 50.6% to 49.4%, It is a stunning result considering that one of the biggest city in Quebec – Montreal has a sizable English speaking Canadians (30 %).
There are many reports stated that the younger generation of Tibetan, once attended Chinese universities outside of Tibet, are more supportive to independence movements. This is very troubling. This reminded me of the situation of the African Americans in the US. I think you can find a sizable number of African American people that they always think that American could never do enough for the African Americans to compensate the sin of the slavery. China never enslaved the Tibetans, but we did have had our history of Culture revolution, regardless whether it is specifically targeted to Tibetans (it is not, but nobody cares).
I think the fair question is: would China ever do enough to make the Tibetan happy in the face of the western support of the independence movement?
The “no” answer would certainly have its influence on China’s Tibetan policy. "

Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism. It includes many areas that the Chinese have annexed to neighboring Chinese provinces such as Qinghai and Gansu. These correspond roughly to the eastern parts of the traditional Tibetan provinces of Kham and Amdo.

That is why so many of the March protests were in "western China", not in Tibet. Just because the Chinese government decided to declare these people as "Chinese" and not Tibetan doesn't mean they will become so. They have always been Tibetan and they remain so.

Authoritarian governments like the PRC and colonialists like the Chinese people like to believe they can destroy people's lives and make them change their entire being by order. Fortunately that's not always the way it works. This is not about some notional "greater Tibet" -- it's just Tibet. All of it.

When the Chinese go to any part of Tibet, including any of the areas they are so keen to describe as "greater Tibet", they usually express horror and disgust at the food. Getting them to eat tsampa would be a miracle. So, why go there at all? Take your rice noodles and go back to China.

to Samuel4:
I like your “Plato’s analogy of the cave" and agree many things you said in your post.

But do you know that you just fell into the same trap with Grace Wang that you only saw the shadows but not the reality? Having sympathy with her and supporting her freedom of speech is one thing (I do too), praising her act is quite different (I don't).

I guess that both American and Chinese could behave like the chained prisoner because they all have their prejudice.

hilbob,

when will USA elect its FIRST president from ethnic minority?

1. USA is a country where racism is a norm;
2. USA is a country where media rules public opinion under the banner "freedom of speech".

Under these conditions, the chance, USA will ever elect a president from ethnic minority is pretty slim. Chance is one can win a multi-billion lottery than win a presidency if you are an ethnic minority in USA.

Yes of course you can run but you will NEVER win.

Haven't you guys heard “Plato’s analogy of the cave”? According to Wikipedia: allegory of the cave, Plato used “the analogy of the cave” to illustrate his idea of forms. The analogy goes like this:

“Imagine several prisoners who have been chained up in a cave for all of their lives. They have never been outside the cave. They face a wall in the cave and they can never look at the entrance of the cave. Sometimes animals, birds, people, or other objects pass by the entrance of the cave casting a shadow on the wall inside the cave. The prisoners see the shadows on the wall and mistakenly view the shadows as reality.”

“However, one man is released from his chains and runs out of the cave. For the first time, he sees the real world and now knows that it is far beyond the shadows he had been seeing. He sees real birds and animals, not just shadows of birds and animals. This man is excited about what he sees and he goes back to his fellow prisoners in the cave to tell them about the real world. But to his astonishment, they don’t believe him. In fact, they are angry with him. They say the shadows are reality and that the escaped prisoner is crazy for saying otherwise. According to Plato, the world outside the cave represents the world of forms while the shadows on the wall represent objects in the physical world. The escape of the prisoner represents philosophical enlightenment and the realization that forms are the true reality. Most people are like the prisoners in the cave. They think the shadows are reality. Philosophers, though, are like the man who escapes the cave and sees the real world. They have true knowledge."

"In another version of the analogy, there is a pathway through the cave which people cross with a fire behind it. It is this which casts the shadows, so when the prisoner turns round, he first sees the fire which caused the shadows, then the cave entrance; so he goes through several different ideas of reality.”

Do you guys know what happens to those Chinese Chauvinists? They are exactly like prisoners confined to the cave prison built and maintained by Chinese Communist Party for more than fifty years. It would be really hard for those Chinese prisoners, especially for those who still have illusions for CCP, to believe the philosophical enlightenment of democracy and realize the true reality of “One world, one standard” represented by the escaped prisoners, e.g. Grace Wang on Duke Campus and others who are ready to share opinions from the outside world.

to Mr real dude
I have extreme shame on you!I can't understand why you dare say so awful words about Chinese students.You are a Chinese immigrant.I think you should know accurately and thoroughly what the truth is about China.Why are the Chinese students so angry about people vilifying China and advocating Tibet independence?Western people are ignorant about China,they just stupidly believe their own media.And western media are so horrible.They don't report the real truth;they just report China used cruel violence to surpress protest(It was not a peaceful protest,it was a shocking riot as matter of fact).The media called Tibet a country and it is an occupied country by China.This is totally nonsense!You live in America you know this,right?What you think hearing those nonsense?You were Chinese.

The Chinese students are not thogs.They just bravely defend their motherland's honor.Since they are surrounded with arrogant and ignorant and hostile western people,they should react to those nonsense opposition strongly.You sound a ugly and annoying nuisance Carfty.Actually Americans,your host country's soldiers and police officers are thogs.Look at what American soldiers did to Iraq and Afghan.The situation in Iraq is mess.So is Afghan's situation.America is a terrible invader.They massacre innocent civilians or torture them cruelly.Under America's control Iraqi and Afghanistans don't have human rights whatsoever.It is real genocide.China has serious and extreme concern about those countries.

America's friends are so awful too.Britain is just like America's dog.Britain is so stupid that he took part in invasion of Iraq and so called anti-terrorism war.Look Britain,he is now the top target of attack around Europe.It is fantastic!He deserve that.France is stupid too.He deserve boycott.Germany is Nazi.so Germany can be a good friend of America.Because they share the same values---Killing nations beyond white world.What Satan Allies you are!

Real dude, your comment about China and Chinese students in US is unforgivable totally.I feel sick of your spirit and your allegiance to America.Don't say again you were Chinese,that will definitly humiliate the whole Chinese.Screw you!and May God hate you!

@ Geez:

I was around for the first four of the eight 'hard years' you point to under Chen. He campaigned on solid issues: ending black gold, extending social justice, and creating greater political space for Tawain self-determination. Lien Chan was lackluster with few fresh ideas and little vision. So, Lien and Soong split the vote and Chen slipped in -- but his message resonated and had substance.

What's the source of your dissatisfaction? That Chen is a thief! Okay...have the allegations been sorted out by an 'independent' investigative council? Not really. The public white wash of Chen has equalled a feeding frenzy pumped up by KMT supported media. Most of the crap brought against him(again, not his son-in-law or wife)amounts to a misuse of a spending fund much like the one Ma was recently pardoned for abusing by the high court of Taiwan. Double standard? Geez, you don't seem to have your shorts in a wad over Ma spending hundreds of thousands of Taipei city tax dollars to wine and dine guests, right? What about Ma's wife and her cozy relationship with banking interests in Taipei. Conflict?

Hey, thank the effectiveness of the KMT and other anti-Chen factions from blocking any meaningful legislation or policy ideas supported or put forward by Chen for the last eight years. That would suck, I agree. Honestly, I think the DPP legislative body has done a worse job than Chen, really. They indulged themselves in bickering and did little to really back Chen's ideas at critical times.

Check the polls after China owns half of Taiwan and Chen will look a little better. That's where your headed with Ma.

Chris

"It definitely seems to be the case that the U.S. has neither reasons nor moral high ground for a boycott of the Olympics and that waiting until just before the opening ceremony before deciding what to do. It can surely be stated right now that a boycott would both backfire and be the height of hypocrisy by the U.S."

You are assuming any nation shows up. If China can not contain the current epidemic hiting tens of thousands of children there, do you believe any nations health organization will allow anyone to go or come back, pandemic anyone????

What is fascinating is that here in China this whole bogus protest movement against Carrefor has just tanked and fizzled out before it even got started. It was not supported nationwide. It is just a lot of hot air with zero intellectual basis. I live 5 minutes from a Carrefor in Shanghai. May 1st, about 15 20 year olds were there with flags but the store was packed with everday shoppers. When interviewed, the shoppers there and nationwide, particularily in Beijing, the political capital, said that the whole thing felt like a return to the national furvor to denounce fellow Chinese by the red youth. Beijing had about 200 protesters in a city of 30 million people. What does that tell you? All this blogging is a big joke.

to THMAK

....the west has done worst human atrocities in the world?

Really?

Even though China's history is an endless river of blood of waring warlords showcased in the endless stream of movies released here; its own blood thirsty invasions of surrounding nations, and Mao who killed 70 million fellow Chinese, and don't forget the astonishing Cultural Revolution that either murdered and forced into slavery through its reeducation processes the displacement of millions of Chinese who were separated from their families and sent to distant provinces to work in farms and coal mines. In your mind, that never counts, huh?

Democracy in China? I'm a chinese immigrant, and I have to say there are more brain-washed university red guard chinese students in America than in China. Some of them are very close to thugs. On the Tibet issue, I saw really radical chinese students shouting the party lines and are very aggressive towards people expressing other opinions. They even don't realize this is AMERICA!! Rarely any of these guys examine why there is so much negative opinion on China. Look at China's buddies: Myanmar, North Korea, Iran, Sudan ... anywhere there is massacre and oppression, there is China. I am sicken and tired of my own country.

Now how to stop those pesky activists from protesting during the Olympics?

John could say the same about the South and North in America then and now. I am sure you would not be pleased if some of us want to be independent from the US.
---------------

Taiwan was part of China for only a very short time, and before that it was ruled in succession by Portuguese, Japanese and other colonial powers. By the PRCs logic these nations all have a claim to Taiwan.

The most important thing is that the Taiwanese themselves do not want to unite with the mainland. They identify as their own nation, with its own culture and national identity. Robbing them of their sovereignty and asserting that it's a part of the Mainland because of an old honor feud between the KMT and CPP is cruel and unjust.

KYT, it appears you believe that the unrest in Tibet was engineered by the Dalai Lama. Except when organized by the State, when does any coordinated protest occur? Isn't within the realm of possibility that this was a spontaneous reaction to Chinese oppression? It really is sort of hard to tell when the "thugs and goons" in charge restrict access. You'll notice that I used the qualifier "in charge" so as to avoid a libel suit over hurting the feelings of the Chinese people.

It definitely seems to be the case that the U.S. has neither reasons nor moral high ground for a boycott of the Olympics and that waiting until just before the opening ceremony before deciding what to do. It can surely be stated right now that a boycott would both backfire and be the height of hypocrisy by the U.S. This is also not an issue that should be used as a pressure point to try to get Chinese cooperation on Darfur. One of the most fundamental questions I hope you’ll try to clarify is: on what secular authority does the Dalai Lama base his claims? He is not an elected representative. As the hereditary head of a traditional hierarchical and non-democratic religious organization, he has a certain status as a leader in society in general that resembles a bit the social status of someone like, perhaps, Billy Graham or the late Jerry Falwell in the U.S. However, if a leading American religious leader had attempted to negotiate with the U.S. government for territorial rights inside the U.S. so that its members could escape, say, the pernicious influence of modern science, what would be the secular legal grounds for this claim? Of course this is a rhetorical question. But when the Dalai Lama’s claims are discussed, he is usually presented in the American media as being the legitimate political representative of an oppressed people. This seems like quite a leap. He is a charismatic religious leader, but his territorial and political claims need to be examined in a 21st-century legal framework. His charisma can never be a substitute for the rule of secular law. The very fact that the Dalai Lama doesn’t wish to return to Tibet under conditions of certain geographical borders and under a strict separation of church and state is suspicious and lends some credence to the Chinese government’s claims. It is the Dalai Lama’s status as a socioeconomic and political actor which is in question, not his limited status as a strictly religious leader. I hope you’ll discuss the status of the Dalai Lama’s claims from the standpoint of international law and also examine the problem of freedom of religious belief in contemporary Tibetan society from the point of view of Confucianism, Daoism, shamanism, and other religions which may not recognize the authority of the Dalai Lama — as well as from the point of view of secularists and atheists. I myself need to do more research on this problem, but it is obviously a multi-layered, complex situation not amenable to simplistic solutions such as self-righteous boycotts. I have to agree with those who are arguing that solutions can only be achieved slowly and painstakingly by the Chinese themselves and that foreigners should enter the debate only after recognizing the integrity of China’s borders.
— Posted by Chris

China really needs to modernize its propaganda machine and to compete in the world of media. What this current Tibet affaire shows is really China’s total failure in the world of media.

China has been so powerful and successful in the world of manufacturing, and yet fails to spread a few simple words outside of China, like Theocracy, Slavery and Cult on the subject of Dalai Lama.

Why is it that it is so hard to spread the facts of Dalai Lama?

Can anyone deny that the old Tibet under His Holiness the Dalai Lama was a Theocracy?

Can anyone deny the old Tibet under His Holiness the Dalai Lama was a form of Slavery where 95% of Tibetans were subject of various monasteries?

In the dictionary, what do you call a mystifying religion that worships a living God? Don’t you call it Cult?

Why is it that the West shows no sympathy to the whole Tibetan population under 100% shacks of the Dalai Lama religious CULT?
What happens to the light of Renaissance? What happens to modernity?

Only Arabs need modernity, Tibetans don’t deserve modernity?

Even in Wikipedia, it is stated that the very Dalai Lama as a theocracy was established by a Chinese emperor. If China has no sovereign over Tibet how could China bestow Tibet’s living God?

The question all the people in China want to know is:

Why it is so hard to spread the facts of Dalai Lama and his old Tibet?

Christian Brotherhood, you seem to have no trouble making personal attacks. Perhaps you would like to address my statements.

Yeah, Tibet, the Torch debacle, their refusal to move Myanmar, their support for the genocide in Dafur are all working out so well for them.

Wuer Kaixi:
Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?

-------------------------------------------

Are you really that idiot who egged on the young students in Tianmen sqaure in 1989 while planning your own escape? You coward infidel! Get out of the US of A; you don't belong here!

Wuer Kaixi:
Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?

-------------------------------------------

Are you really that idiot who egged on the young students in Tianmen sqaure 1989 while planning your own escape? You coward infidel! Get out of the US of A; you don't belong here!

John said:
I'm fluent in Chinese and have lived in both Mainland China and Taiwan. They are not the same country and their culture is not the same. Most Taiwanese I talk to do not want to reunite with Mainland China and their voice should be respected
-----------------------------------------

John could say the same about the South and North in America then and now. I am sure you would not be pleased if some of us want to be independent from the US.

Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?

There was a young lady from Niger,
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
At the end of the ride
The lady was inside,
And the smile was on the face of the tiger.

As a mainlander, I'm sympathetic of Taiwan's desire of its own identity. I say that as a Chinese (who I think Taiwanese ultimately are) and for the sake of China (the government).

My concern is that China may be unwittingly stoking an identity of a separate nation in TW by refusing to accept the reality of two separate states.

The Chinese government is a fool if it thinks by winning those "recognition" battles will win the war of belongingness, particularly when the TW government is democratically elected. By denying the rightful place of their government, China is humiliating the people who elected it. The pride one takes in one's own choice of polity is something most mainlanders never experienced.

Therefore, the real right notes are from the ones in China who advocate a more pragmatic approach. But as this article points out, sometimes, even those strategically imperative decisions (such as renewing relations with the Vatican) are shaped by seemingly petty bureaucratic infighting.

Not that this is anything unique about China though. When it comes to ideolo-bureaucratic interests taking foreign policy hostage, no one--by scale or by audacity--beats the United States of America.

I'm fluent in Chinese and have lived in both Mainland China and Taiwan. They are not the same country and their culture is not the same. Most Taiwanese I talk to do not want to reunite with Mainland China and their voice should be respected.

Yes,it is a good fact that Mr Ma became the Taiwan's new elected leader.Because his political ideas are very practical and constructive for China's complete union progress.or at least closer and wider cooperation between Beijing and
Taibei.We are all Chinese.We should reunite to become a whole entity.Hongkong,Macao successfully came back to China mainland.Taiwan should get closer to China mainland.Because Chinese around the whole territory should work together to compete with other international competitors in every field.Science,medcine,hi-tech,sports,entertainment,etc.No matter where any Chinese comes from,they should have full access to the whole Chinese any kind of resources.for example human resources,natural resource,labor resource,land resources,market resources and so on.In doing so,we can become more competent and have big chance to lead the world in economy and other ways.The whole China can have more influence in the world and in the international affairs.We can take more responsibilities to make big contributions to the earth.And one more good thing:any Chinese no matter where they comes from will feel very proud and much confident.I think that is what the whole Chinese want to achieve.

But in achieving that big goal,both sides---Taiwan and Beijing should talk about political cooperation.I think the effective political solution can make both sides unite again in a perfect way.

As for Dalai Lama,I don'think the above talk can work on him.Because he is a spiritual leader.He has influence in religion.I think politics should be seperated from religion.Since he is an influential figure in religion,then he should return to religion.He had better commit himself compeletely to Buddhism.Never touch politics!Not to mention independence.Be smart!Dalai Lama.Beijing should talk to Dalai Lama in a different way and base on a different principle.Religion is religion;politics are politics.Don't push Dalai Lama!

bravo zhubajte. interesting to hear a good spirit and how they express themselves... without hyperbole or exagerations or distortions. Keep up the good works.

Angkor (what?) Get rid of your virus/trojan/spywear. That's what's causing your pop ups, not the site.

Yet again, Mr Pomfret, you have very cleverly perceived a trend of profound significance in China.

In this Olympic year China's diplomacy has been planned as statesmanlike, with a hand of friendship and dialogue being extended to areas where previously there was only frost.

If Tibet had not happened to ruin the pre-planned Chinese script, we would all be hailing on front pages around the world Hu's meeting in Hainan with the Guomindang as the most positive thing to happen in cross-Straits relations in the past 15 years; and now Hu plays ping-pong and hands out pandas to the people who are nightly on Japanese television portrayed as evil guezi.

China is playing its part in the six-party talks, the Iran nuclear issue and also in Darfur, though not to the Western media's liking.

All these things are of profound and positive impact for China and the world. But the PR disaster of Tibet has cast a vast pall over China's achievements and the way it is changing before our very eyes.

You are quite right, Mr Pomfret, there is a profound discord between China's actions, and its words through mouthpieces like Xinhua, Renmin Ribao and China Daily. I think it's evidence that Hu is behaving like a statesman, while his state-run and centrally-controlled media cannot break the habits of its leaders' Cultural Revolution upbringing and resort to lies, distortions, half-truths and demonisations of the Dalai Lamai, CNN, Jack Cafferty and Grace Wang in an incompetent and deeply unpleasant bid to persuade world opinion.

Far better to let Hu take the stage and open and reform China through actions, than to allow the shrill, bad voices of the state media machine repeat their mantras of hate and dogma. One day gaige kaifang will roll through the Chinese media and these people will all be out of a job. Roll on that day.

And just a note to Sadie. What a tiresome old argument you trot out. Do try and be original, dear. I'm a Westerner, I've come to China and work here, and I'm an expert in my field both here and in the West and I find much to criticise about your government's appalling barbarism in Tibet. I would love to take the spirit of your advice and find out for myself, by taking an extended trip to Tibet. However your government won't allow me.

Gsme, set and match to me, I think.

Good summary review of China's recent foreign policy -- except for the intrusive and unmovable box-ad two-thirds of the way down which blocks a good part of the article!

To Troyce Key: Since slightly before 1839, China has been under the constant onlaught by the West and later on savagely by Japan up to the present. When Chinese study their recent history,they learn mainly the humuliation forced upon them by foreigners in contrast to the peaceful American history for about the same period of time. It is not that easy to forget 170 years of suffering, a period longer than any other country. So far, the Chinese hate of foreigners has not turned into any devastating unilateral/premptive invasion of their hated countries in contrast to USA, unless provoked. Just a thought, the West has been intensely immersed in the Christian religion of love and forgiving for the past 2000 more years. Yet the worst human calamities and devastations in the world were wrought by the West. I hope uou understand.

Good summary review of China's recent foreign policy -- except for the intrusive and unmovable box-ad two-thirds of the way down which blocks a good part of the article!

This forum will never have any educational value so long as chinese are allowed to deposit their venom, hatred, ignorance and propaganda on it.

Mr. Pomfret should continue writing his great analysis of the chinese world, but shut down the forum.

After all, such a forum would NEVER be allowed in china, would it?

i don't know why you foreigner criticize the ccp ,if you have never studied about chinese histories ,please try not to be
misleaded by the media ,when you come to china ,you would know what is going on in china ,we welcome the ones that admire there is one china
i want to say there are only chinese ,not what Taiwanese,taiwan is always part of china

To HiloBob:
Dude, I am glad that you come up these ridiculous excuses for our wrongdoings. However, I am going just set one of your ridicules straight as an example. As a physician practicing in the States, I can tell you everyone in medical research field knows that The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male conducted between 1930’s and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama. Penicillin was widely available since World War II (1940’s). Several hundred poor black males were either given placebo or nothing for their syphilis without their consent. Penicillin can cure the disease, period. I believe it was Presedent Clinton who appologized on TV. When I was a medical student, we were told in lecture that many african american distruct medical professions because of this and other reasons. This research study, along with many misdeeds or crimes in medical research we have conducted over the past half century brought so much changes along with restriction in the States so that many Big Pharms would prefer going overseas to conduct clinical trials and research.

A business associate of mine returned to China after 20 years and is quite proud of his native land these days. He left a crippled, cruel and impoverished land and now rejoices for the progress on all fronts he witnessed. People who are my neighbours, immigrants from China, don't recogize the crap spewed by the Western media and for what it's worth, neither do I. If anybody bothered to read something of Chinese history one could easily understand the justified fear and mis-trust of the West and the fact they have overcome past nightmares speaks to an openess to be envied.