Pomfret's China

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China's Harmonious Diplomatic Symphony

While its propaganda machine might be sounding a little shrill lately, China's foreign policy is hitting all the right notes. In the past few weeks, President Hu Jintao has met twice with leading politicians from Taiwan following the election of Ma Ying-jeou. First Hu met with VP-elect Vincent Siew and then with KMT bigwig Lien Chan. There's a good possibility that the two sides will move a lot closer -- setting up direct flights and freight services -- once Ma takes power on May 20 and Taiwan's both incompetent and ideologically rigid president, Chen Shui-bian, leaves. Good for China and Taiwan.

What's more, last week, Hu spent five days in Japan using "smile" diplomacy with China's Asian nemesis. By all accounts, it was a pretty successful trip, a stark contrast to complete disaster that occurred when Hu's predecessor Jiang Zemin visited Japan in 1998 and gave a screaming lecture about history. The lecture played well in China but not anywhere else. China and Japan have reason to buddy up. Last year, China replaced the US as Japan's biggest export market - a trend that isn't going to change.

Then, last weekend in Shenzhen, lower ranking Chinese officials met with representatives of the Dalai Lama. They've agreed to keep talking. No one expects this to go anywhere, but it's a whole lot better than yelling at each other via the media.

And Wednesday, the China Philharmonic Orchestra, joined by the Shanghai Opera House Chorus, performed Mozart's "Requiem" and Chinese folk tunes for Pope Benedict at the Vatican City. Pope Benedict gushed about the performance saying it "helps us to understand better the history of the Chinese people, their values and their noble aspirations." Translation: After almost 60 years of no relations, the Vatican and China are moving rapidly toward closer ties.

It's interesting that press reports say the concert at the Vatican was added at the "last minute" and was apparently arranged with the help of Deng Rong, one of the daughters of the late Deng Xiaoping, the architect of China's reforms. It's also interesting that the Chinese players performed the "Requiem," Mozart's last composition and long considered one of his darker and more spiritual pieces.

There's no way the concert was really a last minute addition -- anything involving China and the Vatican is being vetted at the highest levels of both governments. But what it could mean is that China and the Vatican are ready to re-establish diplomatic ties, which means the Vatican would drop its recognition of Taiwan. Two key reasons: it looks like the Communist Party hacks who opposed better ties, like Ye Xiaowen, the chief of the Religious Affairs Bureau, and Bishop Fu Tianshan have finally been moved out of the way. Fu died last year and Ye is rumored to be stepping down.

While the warming trend with Beijing is good news for Taiwan, losing the Vatican would be a blow. And it comes as Taiwan's foreign policy establishment - which staked its prestige on its ability to stop China's diplomatic juggernaut -- is in meltdown. On Tuesday Taiwan's foreign minister Jason Huang and Vice Premier Chou I-jen stepped down over a botched attempt to win diplomatic recognition from Papua New Guinea from China after $30 million "went missing." Ooops.

Taiwan and China have long paid off various tinpot dictatorships around the world as part of their competition for diplomatic recognition. Taiwan is losing that battle. Now, only 23 countries -- mostly tiny ones -- recognize Taiwan, compared with 30 when Chen Shui-bian took power in 2000. So China's fiddling while Taiwan burns.

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Comments (127)

Anonymous:

Russia's Natural Resources Ministry has sent a protest note to China over a spillage from a chemical facility in northeast China, near the Russian border, which killed at least three people earlier Friday.

Local authorities have not yet given details on the facility, the cause of the spill, or the type of chemicals that have leaked into the surrounding area, located in the Heilongjiang province.

"Unfortunately, the Chinese side has provided us with no official information, which is a violation of an agreement signed between the Natural Resources Ministry and China's Environmental Committee," Minister Yury Trutnev said.
http://www.bradenton.com/193/story/660560.html

Anonymous:

++While its propaganda machine might be sounding a little shrill lately, China's foreign policy is hitting all the right notes.++

i am sorry but how much do you know about chinese forign policy?

in real world China doesnt have forign policy. only secret agreements and secret diplomacy. not a open and transparent policy like in many other countries in the world. Nothing like open talks in UN or other international organisations. all what we get about chinese forign policy are chinese media propaganda(where chinese present themselfes like Hitler or Dutche did it after talks with forign nations) and some reports of UN or human right groups. everything else are "nothing for forigners" thing.

"right notes" FTW. you should just travel into Indian/mongolian/korean/kazakhstanian/kirgisian/russian-chinese border areas and hear what people there are thinking about chinese forign policy. ohh, wait. you should travel in all countries wich have links to chinese forign ministry. noone country is lucky about chinese politics. but noone country will talk about because chinese keep all talks and agreemens under "dont talk about or we will cancel all our settlements"

Michael Turton:

Eric Heagy's comments below are exactly correct. In the Chen-Ma pairing the competent one is Chen, not Ma. Again, as Heagy notes, Beijing reporters clearly does not have a very good understanding of Ma's domestic position. In the talks he has been almost totally bypassed, more of a puppet than I had imagined possible, at least so quickly. A lot of us had felt the 17 point victory manufactured for him would give him some money in the bank, but the widespread contempt for Ma within ruling circles in the KMT has simply adumbrated that. He doesn't appear to have any leverage. The legislature has been bypassed as well. The Old Guard seem in control at the moment. Bad news for the island's economy and democracy.

More importantly, as we have just seen, the recent talks did not mention cargo flights, which is what Taiwan needs. They also put a huge dent in our sovereignty which Chen had been patiently expanding for the last eight years. Instead Wu even refused to call Ma "President" and talked only of tourism. The missiles, which Ma had insisted should be on the table, are not. Beijing is fully in control of the talks.

And no, John, this is good neither for Taiwan nor China. If Taiwan is to remain an example for China, it must remain separate, sovereign, and democratic. As the Wu-Hu lovefest shows, if trends continue, it will not be any of these things.

Michael
The View from Taiwan

Jed Clampett:

Your silence tells me you understand and agree.

Fine, then, let's stop this stupid bickering between races, countries and ideologies and lets start realizing we have a common enemy that must be identified and engaged... hopefuly it can be convinced to depart in a friendly way rather than begining a conflict of major proportions.

Jed Clampett:

RTGTW-Idiot

This is the truth of war, regardless of whether it is between families, cities, states, countries, planets or galaxies. They are all absurd endeavors to begin with and an assault on civility. And those who feed the beast by raising their ire and then unleashing it on others, be it on these boards or physically, is nothing less than a traitor to his species and a helper of the destroyer of worlds.
Hope you are proud of yourself, you are helping sell your own people out.

American Observer:

Is there any post which can make it to the page here?

Multiethnicity:

A nation can exist in harmony within a state, just as the Apache Nation can exist peacefully within the USA.

American Observer:

Rest Talk,go to work.Idiot! (sic) says:

"There are hundreds civil wars around the world in the past and present would be renamed according your definition."

American Observer replies:

What are they? And how and why would they be renamed? Do you have something to say, or are you just babbling?

Rest Talk,go to work.Idiot! (sic) says:

"Don't play a game between nation and state."

American Observer replies:

When you use the word 'state,' what exactly do you mean? Do you mean state as in 'province of American or Australia,' or do you mean 'state' in the international sense, to mean an area of land which is ruled by a sovereign oovernment? If you mean 'state' as in province, then Tibet is clearly not a province -- instead, Tibet is a nation which the Chinese have conquered and turned into a colony; and if you mean 'state' as in 'area of land which is ruled by a sovereign oovernment,' then the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere was a state, but China and Japan were still different nations, and The People's Republic of China is a state, but China and Tibet are different nations.

Rest Talk,go to work.Idiot!:

American Observer says:

Yes, 'Jed Clampett' is a very intelligent person, and he knows what a civil war is. A civil war is fought inside a nation. A civil war is fought between people who speak the same language and worship the same religion and come from the same culture. For example, the war between the KMT and the Communists was a civil war. An invasion, on the other hand, happens when one nation sends soldiers into another. When this happens, the invaders come from a different culture and speak a different language and usually worship a different religion. This is what happened when Japan invaded China, and this is what happened when China invaded Tibet. The war between the KMT and the Communists was a civil war, but the war between China and Tibet is an invasion.
========================================
So this is your concept of "civil war"! There are hundreds civil wars around the world in the past and present would be renamed according your definition. Don't play a game between nation and state.There are numerous countries that do not follow your game,including U.S.
It is so great Tibet is not under your

thmak:

To American observer: You said" When this happens, the invaders come from a different culture and speak a different language and usually worship a different religion." So You finally say that the Europeans invaded America and the Europeans must cede back America to the natives and return back to Europe. That means the Europeans in Australia too. You must agree to that. I hope you understand.

thmak:

To Post Card: Thanks for reading my post. You are right that the boundary of China has been changing throughout history and so are the boundaries between the provinces inside China. Right now part of the boundary with Russia and India have yet to be determined. I don't have the authority to rewrite the Chinese history in modern times to fit anything. I just state the facts as of now and don't know what the future will be. I'm not as powerful and dictatorial as Hitler or Bush who want to fit their own nation building with dishonesty. I hope you understand.


thmak:

To American Observer: After your most recent post to me, there is a poster,Free Hawaii, calling for "Restore the Kingdom of Hawaii!". You must very happy to support his action. We are dealing with facts at the moment. So Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Zinjiang and the Korean Autononmous Prefecture belong to China. I hope you understand and don't dispute that fact. No body can predict what the future will be. As you wish, so do I. May be in the future, to your astonishment, USA is happily and willingly be part of China !!

Shawn:

Pomfret will surely be on fire when he see all those posts here.

Free Hawaii:

Restore the Kingdom of Hawaii!

Jed Clampett:

A civil war is the stupidest endeavour human beings can embark on.
It is brother fighting brother for the benefit of another. It is self delusion that when someone else tells you a lie that is utterly unbelievable, you accept it. And that you allow yourself to believe that lie in order to help a leadership that is incapable of resolving disagreements in a civil manner.
The people are convinced by the leadership that it is in all their best interest to sign a homicide/suicide pact for the benefit of the group. But in reality, the leadership and their circle of friends are the only ones who benefit. The rest of the population is left in famine and hardship. They are left to fend for themselves and in desperation they are forced to do things that make them feel worthless and guilty. When people are forced to live in this sort of anguish, crime ensues and fear is prevalent. When people are in fear, they try to find a cause for their fear. This is when the leadership gives them a foreign enemy to hate and fear, and when the level of tension has reached a pitch, they unleash that hatred on another people, another race, another brother, cousin, uncle, potential friend. All for the benefit of some greedy selfish bastards that did not have the mental capacity or the forsight to understand that peace brings prosperity for all, while war brings wealth to a ruthless few while bringing misery to the many.
So yea, I understand what civil war is. It is the suicide of the masses at the behest of an evil few. It is humanity commiting suicide while nero fiddles and savours the spoils. A war on civility, civilization if you will.

Anonymous:

Seems to me Japan had possession of Nanking not so long ago, shouldn't it be rightly returned to them.

wei:

American Observer replies:

All countries in the world recognized that Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Khazakstan was part of the Soviet Union until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Eritrea was part of Ethiopia until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Bangledesh was part of Pakistan until it wasn't. When Tibet is free from China and all three Koreas are united, then the world will recognize that too.

Exactly. So until that day comes, it's pointless to argue Tibet being an independent country. Who knows, the day may come when Mexico takes back Cal and Tex, Hawaii declares independent, or New England starts a second revolution war if US keeps electing presidents like W. BTW with the illegal immigrants in US, Mexicans may take back Cal and Tex sooner than we expect.

American Observer:

No Kidding says:

"...do you know what's a civil war?"

American Observer says:

Yes, 'Jed Clampett' is a very intelligent person, and he knows what a civil war is. A civil war is fought inside a nation. A civil war is fought between people who speak the same language and worship the same religion and come from the same culture. For example, the war between the KMT and the Communists was a civil war. An invasion, on the other hand, happens when one nation sends soldiers into another. When this happens, the invaders come from a different culture and speak a different language and usually worship a different religion. This is what happened when Japan invaded China, and this is what happened when China invaded Tibet. The war between the KMT and the Communists was a civil war, but the war between China and Tibet is an invasion.

American Observer:

Thmak says:

"All countries in the world recognize that Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, Tibet, Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang are parts of China."

American Observer replies:

All countries in the world recognized that Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Khazakstan was part of the Soviet Union until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Eritrea was part of Ethiopia until it wasn't. All countries in the world recognized that Bangledesh was part of Pakistan until it wasn't. When Tibet is free from China and all three Koreas are united, then the world will recognize that too.

rymnd2008:

To american observer,

Oh well, referendum is killer to Chinese in every respect, isn't it?

Look, if USA has nothing to hide, why not hold referendum now for your local issues like

1. gay marriage
2. freedom of abortion
3. closure of Guatamo Bay
4. stop blockage of Cuba

Not many states in your home country allow the above. Can I therefore conclude USA is a oppressive regime? Tell me who should vote in these referendum?

1. let just gay people to vote, ok?
2. let women choose to freedom of abortion to vote, ok?

Above all, people against these issue should stand by and watch them to vote, ok?

you are again working on huge hypothetical assumption about China affairs. If Chinese should ever get out of tibet, then USA, please do the same to

1. alaska
2. all states occupied by native Indian
3. hawaii

Will you let native Indians to hold referendum? Oh remind you there are very few of them left comparing with 200 years ago. You, hypocrate, after you comitted enough racial genocide against the native, 200 years later, you hold a referedum to decide their future by mainly white people, of course you get it your way.

When will you learn?

1. first, get out of Iraqi, Afganistan where your soldiers killing women and children everyday,
2. USA is a land of freedom and issues, therefore, USA should hold referendum EVERYDAY, this should keep USA busy for 100 years and let the world lives in peace and tranquility.

post card :

To Thmak and all the other idiotic Chinese here

Google the territorial maps of China for every single dynasty of your history. You will discover an amazing truth that China's borders were forever shifting by expansion and reduction over the course of history. What you claim today didn't exist during the times you claim it did. You people claim national borders of the current PRC government is being reflective of your 3000-5000 year history. That bogus claim couldn't be farther from the truth based on the historical territorial maps of your own former dynasties. What is true is that you have tried to rewrite your own history in modern times to fit your own nation building with dishonesty.

no kidding:

How a people can be ill informed and minded to think in a logic way ...let's watch 'jed Clampett'
'Jed Clampett:
If Tibet was part of China, why did China feel the need to assault it by force of arms? '

hi, idiot, do you know what's a civil war?

Cleaner:

American Observer:"No matter how guilty America is and no matter how guilty Germany is, both America and Germany have a duty to refuse to help foreign empires like China kill people in other countries such as Tibet."
===========================================
You scenario:Your politicians made a invasion that killed millions people in Iraq and then they feel "guilty" and are going home for a good retirement. How come such metaphorically punishment or your favorite "guilt" makes your "guilty" folks so noble and thick-skinned enough to spew moral teaching to other "barbarian"?

Since you call "Tibet" a country, I recommenced you do not squander your time here arguing something you hold nothing common with other arguers.So stop any wishy-washy talk.Be determined and be ruthless.

Jed Clampett:

If Tibet was part of China, why did China feel the need to assault it by force of arms?
Without any opposition or resistance to their invasion, China still treated the population of pacifists as if they where attacking a camp of mongol raiders.
Those are not the actions of a nation asserting it's control over a surrogate. They are the actions of an invader imposing it's will on a peaceful population by force of arms and fear. For the last half century and more the people of Tibet have been lamenting their misery to the world. They have told us of the inhumane conditions they are subjected to. How they are forced to renounce their religion and insult their revered leaders. How their girls are turned into prostitues and their boys into slave labor.
After 50 years of abuse, do you not realize that anyone would revolt and demand redress? Did not Mao's revolution not also arise from the injustice perpetrated on the populace by the state? You should be thankful Tibetans are pacifists, were they warriors without heart or compassion, with their kowledge, they would have brought down your corrupt comunist empire from within a long time ago. That is why ancient Chinese lords would much rather use them as advisors than make war against them.
I guess back then, before the Chinese people had their way of belief in a higher power stripped from them by force, there was no way the state could muster such hatred for pacifists. Unfortunately, the dragon has been in control of China for a long enough time that it's young people do not realize the value of such beliefs and look upon them with disdain. It is much easier now to turn the tide of popular opinion against their true enemy... those that still hold a link to that which we all understand in our hearts... the higher power that is the living Earth.

thmak:

To American Observer: All countries in the world recognize that Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, Tibet, Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang are parts of China. So there is no issues such as invasion to be considered. If you insist dictatorially that they are not part of China, then you intend to separate them from China, amounting to invade China, another terrorist/extremist in the making. Since you have no objection to my other points in my last post, I consider you agree to them. I hope you undersstand.


thmak:

To American Observer: All countries in the world recognize that Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture, Tibet, Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang are parts of China. If you insist that they are not part of China, then you intend to separate them from China, amounting to invade China, another terrorist/extremist in the making. Since you have no objection to my other points in my last post, I consider you agree to them. I hope you undersstand.


American Observer:

Chris says:

"It definitely seems to be the case that the U.S. has neither reasons nor moral high ground for a boycott of the Olympics -- "

American Observer says:

Excuse me, Chris -- how pure does a country have to be before that country has a duty to do the right thing? It seems to me that you don't need to be pure or innocent to do the right thing. In fact, the more guilty a country is, the more duty that country has to do what is right. I have spoken to any number of Germans, and they tell me that is why the German youth are so eager to protest against Li Peng and the other butchers of Beijing. No matter how guilty America is and no matter how guilty Germany is, both America and Germany have a duty to refuse to help foreign empires like China kill people in other countries such as Tibet.

Chris says:

"This is also not an issue that should be used as a pressure point to try to get Chinese cooperation on Darfur."

American Observer says:

Why not, Chris? If the world cannot use the Olympics to pressure China, what can we use to pressure China? Is there anything we can do to make the Chinese stop supporting the genocide in Darfur? Or, are you saying that pressure is always wrong if it is China which is being pressured?

Chris says:

"One of the most fundamental questions I hope you’ll try to clarify is: on what secular authority does the Dalai Lama base his claims? He is not an elected representative."

American Observer replies:

Excuse me, Chris -- on what secular authority did Mohandas Gandhi base his claims? Excuse me, Chris -- on what secular authority did Martin Luther King base his claims? Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King were local religious leaders who raised the claims of oppressed people against secular rulers who justified their rule by pointing to laws which those same secular rulers had written themselves to justify their own power. In this sense, the Dalai Lama is exactly the same.

If you wish to challenge the legitimacy of the Dalai Lama, why don't you challenge the legitimacy of the Dalai Lama in a free and fair election. You could withdraw all Chinese soldiers from Tibet and then allow the Tibetans to form their own political parties and debate the issues freely. Then the Dalai Lama could run for election as the secular president of Tibet, and you could run your own Chinese candidate against him.

Tell me, Chris -- who do you think would win that election? The fact that the Tibetans continue to fight against the Chinese occupation despite the overwhelming force and brutality of the Chinese shows how much the Tibetans want to be free. You and I both know that any Pro-China candidate would be crushed in any free election in Tibet.

Chris says:

"I have to agree with those who are arguing that solutions can only be achieved slowly and painstakingly by the Chinese themselves and that foreigners should enter the debate only after recognizing the integrity of China’s borders."

American Observer replies:

What slick and evil nonsense. The real truth is that solutions can only be achieved slowly and painstakingly by the TIBETANS themselves and that CHINESE should enter the debate only after recognizing the integrity of TIBET’s borders. Chinese go home! Chinese out of Tibet!

American Observer:

jiaming:

To PHOEPA,

"Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism."

By this standard, Qinghai and Gansu and all those other provinces that you and the Dalai Lama claim are definitely not Tibet. Look it up. By the way, Qinghai was under the Qing dynasty's control since 1724.

This is exactly my point. Instead of fighting for the freedom to practice Tibetan buddhism which includes the Dalai Lama, you are claiming every territory that has ever been part of Tibet in history. That is like the Mongolians claiming Eastern Europe."

American Observer replies:

What a clever word game from a clever Chinese colonialist! First, the Chinese invaded Tibet. Then the Chinese carved big pieces of Tibet away to be 'Autonomous Prefectures,' and then the Chinese included those Autonomous Prefectures inside other Chinese provinces. Then the Chinese claimed that anyone trying to liberate those 'autonomous prefectures' was actually trying to 'steal' Chinese provinces.

What a transparent trick. That would be like having Russia invade America and then give Florida to Cuba. Then, if the Americans demanded Florida back, the Russians could claim that America was trying to conquer Cuba. What a clever trick from clever colonialists!

Things you are not reading in Wiki:

"Wikipedia says : Amdo is one of the three traditional provinces of Tibet, the other two being Ü-Tsang and Kham; it is also the birth place of Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama. While culturally and ethnically a Tibetan area, Amdo has been administered by a series of local rulers in recent centuries. Since the Chinese Communist party invasion into Amdo in the 1950's, Amdo has been annexed into Gansu, Sichuan and Qinghai."

Actually, the 14th Dalai Lama was named "Llhamo Döndrub" when born. Tenzin Gyatso is the name when he became the 14th Dalai Lama.

Wiki: "In 1928, after its victory in the Northern Expedition, the Kuomintang-controlled government established Qinghai as a province of the Republic of China, which encompassed most of the old Amdo". So " Since the Chinese Communist party invasion into Amdo in the 1950's Amdo has been annexed into Gansu, Sichuan and Qinghai" is not accurate.

You also know that Dala Lama's father did not speak/read/write Tibetan, right?

American Observer:

Thmak says:

"The only country that are now at war with foreign countries is USA."

American Observer replies:

That is nonsense. The People's Republic of China continues to occupy the 'Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture' as well as Inner Mongolia, and the People's Republic of China is still at war with Tibet and East Turkestan. The Chinese invaders murder more people in East Turkestan and Tibet every month, with the support of colonialists like you.

Chinese looking for solution:

Shawn: I agree with you. I guess WP could make people register like some other blog sites. This will reduce some of those personal attack postings.

Shawn:

being absent for a few days, I flipped through all comments and found a fact, that is: there are few extremes from both sides who are attacking each side. None of them are really aiming to solve problem/interact/communicate rather than attacking.

But still can enjoy the intellectual points posted by some folks without prejudice and hatred.

HiloBob:

To anonymous 5/12/08 12:43a.m.:

There were a number of different kinds of "democracies" in ancient Greece. Most "radical" was Athenian democracy which encouraged even the poor to have a voice although only free males could vote. Its critics of doubted that it could survive.

Chinese "democracy" as practiced, if you can make a stretch and call it that, resembles an oligarchy. Leadership is open to a select few. So as a "democracy" I guess it's about 2500 years behind the times.

Anonymous:

Some previous posts have mentioned that the democratic process practiced in ancient Greece was only available to the Assembly, which was the only body entitled to vote.

Likewise, China's National People's Congress has a voting process to select the next President.

Peter:

Apparently, Whitepuppet has the power to define "blackness". Nice.

HiloBob:


whitepuppet:

Jessi and Al have a lot of ham for the camera, and they have done some wonderful things. But they don't appeal to everyone even within their own race or political party.

Some folks don't agree, and I don't agree with them. Some folks like Rush and sometimes we've got to agree to disagree. Barack bridges the gap between the two.

Do YOU even engage in the democratic process or do you just have ONE party replete with slogans and jingoisms?

You can't lay it all to race, that's a side issue here. We have racists and so do you...take note down the column here to see crap with White Supremacist accusations blanketly aimed at Americans as a whole.

New Mexico has an Hispanic governor who was in the presidential race. From my state, our two senators are Asian.

My wife is from Mexico. We have friends of all races. I wouldn't vote for either Jesse or Al, not because they're black or I'm white, but rather I don't feel either would make very good presidents. Obama will be one of our GREAT presidents.

whitepuppet:

@HiloBob:

Barack Obama is "Black"? holly cow I didnt know that ... Come back when Jessi or Al Sharpton becomes president.

Asian:

In Wikipedia :
Hu was appointed Party Chief of the Tibet Autonomous Region in 1988, during a time of political instability and was responsible for a political crackdown in early 1989 in Tibet.
The British media network BBC alleged that he was believed to have been involved in the 1989 unexpected death of the Panchen Lama, Tibet's second highest religious leader, an allegation supposedly stemming from hearsay of common Tibetans.
Hu's stance in Tibet attracted attention from the Central Government in Beijing and was further promoted by the Government.

In 1982, Hu was promoted to the position of Communist Youth League Gansu Branch Secretary.
In 1982, Hu was transferred to Beijing and appointed as secretariat of the Communist Youth League Central Committee ("CY Central").
Two years later Hu was promoted to First Secretary of CY Central, thus its actual leader.


Hu is ruling PRC's real world.
His faithful young followers(CYLC) is ruling PRC's cyber world(sometimes Western's cyber world).

If they will rule PRC the same way as they has ruled, Can Tibetan(Uyghur) become Chinese's Friends or Enemies?

Asian:

Rymnd2008 said : When will USA elect its FIRST president from ethnic minority? ... Under these conditions, the chance, USA will ever elect a president from ethnic minority is pretty slim... Yes of course you can run but you will NEVER win.

I want to say : PRC will never ELECT a president(CCP's frist secretary in province(autonomy) and Military, Police chief as well) from 200 ethnic minorities even in their Autonomy(Colony?) regions. Yes of course, not to mention winning, you can never run.

To jiaming
Wikipedia says : Amdo is one of the three traditional provinces of Tibet, the other two being Ü-Tsang and Kham; it is also the birth place of Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama. While culturally and ethnically a Tibetan area, Amdo has been administered by a series of local rulers in recent centuries. Since the Chinese Communist party invasion into Amdo in the 1950's, Amdo has been annexed into Gansu, Sichuan and Qinghai.

To China's one child policy
I agree to your commnet "Little Emperors". But I want to say more "Little Imperialists".

I heard that many Manju and Zhuang people living in PRC feel happy, but Uyghur(East Turkestan) and Tibetan people do not feel happy in PRC.

It seems that CCP members adhering to oppressive and crafty policies on Uyghur(Tibet) could succeed in CCP as Hu Jintao has been on a fast track since he(CCP's first secretary in Tibet) ordered discharge on Tibetans in 1989 (right before Tiananmen Square protests of 1989).

When I heard Uyghur(Tibet) and Manju(Zhuang), a Aesop Fable "The North Wind and the Sun" came to my mind.

I think that the more Hu and his followers(tens of millions of young tuanpai(Communist Youth League of China)) adhere to their oppressive and crafty policies on Uyghur(Tibet), the more Uyghur(Tibetan) cherish resentment against Chinese.

Wikipedia says : With some groups, such as the Tibetans and the Uyghurs, there is some resentment against the majority. Other groups such as the Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, and Koreans are well integrated into the national community.

HiloBob:

Hypocrite2 said:

"I know Western language and culture, I don't like the West.

I come and live in the West, I don't like the West.

I work and play in the West, I don't like the West."

May 9, 2008 7:51 PM

There is an easy solution to your problem...DRY YOUR TEARS, LEAVE, and DON'T COME BACK.

To hypocrite1 May 10, 2008 9:23 AM:

"DUDE"!!

What is ridiculous is your incomprehensible inability to understand what I said about the Tuskegee Experiment. As I said, it was a HORRIFIC part of our PAST. I'll go slooowly here so it's easier for you.

There..was..a..time..when..blacks..were
..considered..inferior..now..one..is..running..for
..president..I'm..going..to..vote..for..him..

And by the way, you have to admit as a physician that waterboarding as interrogation technique is infinitely healthier than a bullet to the back of the head for not paying your taxes.

It's still cheaper than the fancy new execution buses you use to kill a person a day on average. Stepping up in the world aren't we??

ohboytheyjustgrowfromtrees wrote: May 10 8:44 a.m.

"@HiloBob:

where did you come up with such a long stinky piece of sh/t? brainwashed by commie is unfortunate, brainwashed by wing-nuts is pathetic."

I guess it's easy to respond to a short stinky piece of sh/t.

Brainwash no good for YOU. You no can make argument. You argue with self and LOSE. You got plenty nuts loose.


HiloBob:

rymnd2008:

Ho brother, you don't get out much. It looks like not only will Barack Obama, our first black man to run for president, get the Democratic nomination, all polls in the U.S. predict he'll beat the Republican John McCain by a large margin.

How about that Politburo...How many minorities are on it out of a billion of YOU??!!

China's one child policy:

Most of the Chinese posters here are only child, so-called "Little Emperors".

Wonder if that affects the mental development?

C. Chapman:

You guys should accept this fact: most of the Chinese citizens inside and outside China currently support their government. So ...that's their choice. Let them be ... One government's legistemacy should only be decided by their own people, no matter it is communism or monarchy or democracy.

If your government can lead a 30 years double digit economical growth, can they get your support?

thmak:

To Troyce key: Your use of sensational words "blood thirsty", "millions", "invasion of surrounding countries" come only from your mouth and, if they are so serious, are not even raised and debated in UN. That means your accusation is just baloney. Keep on chanting those useless words. They only derange your mind. The only country that are now at war with foreign countries is USA. Since you raise no objection to what i said in my previous post, i consider you agree with my view. I hope you understand.


wow, scotland:

It is nice to notice scottish want to independent, and the England PM Gordon Brown pledged to do "whatever is necessary" to preserve the English rule.

Free Scotland~

Anonymous:

A lot of people think that the issue with CHina stems from "human rights" or CCP or etc... The really nasty issue is the lack of women. Remember, 40 million of these male youths uner 30 will not be able to find wives, not to mention keep them. The sex ratio is nuts. Plus, a lot of young chinese women find themselves better off with older, financially capable chinese men, or westerners, who treat them better, with more attention, affection, and commitment. A lot of these young males have been spoiled, drink, gamble, cheat, and are difficult to marry, as they get divorced soon, when the women finally realize they are married to a child. Let's face it, a lot of these youths will never have a true relationship, the best they can do is "paid" temporary relationships, from chinese girls who are either slaves to "fashine" or actual "sex" slaves. With a 40 million difference and over 10 million in the sex industry, plus millions dating or mistresses to older men, plus hundread's of thousands trying to find western husbands, plus the young and divorced, that most chinese will not want to marry? The difference actually is probably more like 60 to 70 million chinese men under 30 without a real life partner. Now that is scarry. Crime, selfishness, aggression, drinking, gambling, etc...

Anonymous:

Taiwan's DDP government stopped the Olympic torch from going thru Taiwan, and the incoming KMT government is redeeming itself by accepting the panda gifts.

On hindsight though, not having the torch relay in Taiwan is good, because there are many Tibetan exiles living there who have the support of the Taiwanese.

jiaming:

To Chinese looking for solution:

You are right. Mainland China and Taiwan must work out a better framework than this winner takes all situation, where the mainland is giving Taiwan no breathing room diplomatically. The corrupt, pro-independence DDP government destroyed any trust between the two sides. Hopefully, the KMT administration can restore some of the mutual confidence between them. No meaningful negotiations can take place if any one side have a deep mistrust for the other. This is the same with Taiwan as it is with Tibet.

jiaming:

To PHOEPA,

"Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism."

By this standard, Qinghai and Gansu and all those other provinces that you and the Dalai Lama claim are definitely not Tibet. Look it up. By the way, Qinghai was under the Qing dynasty's control since 1724.

This is exactly my point. Instead of fighting for the freedom to practice Tibetan buddhism which includes the Dalai Lama, you are claiming every territory that has ever been part of Tibet in history. That is like the Mongolians claiming Eastern Europe.

Chinese looking for solution:

I am actually conflicted about this diplomatic game on recognition of one China. If I am a Taiwanese, I would not have any diplomats in many countries providing me some very basis service. Would I be happy?

Recognize the Republic of China instead of the People's Republic of China:

Burkina Faso, El Salvador, Belize, Nauru, Palau, Tuvalu, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Kiribati, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Paraguay, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Panama, the Vatican, Swaziland, Malawi, Sao Tome and Principe, Haiti, Gambia and St. Kitts and Nevis

Chinese looking for solution:

To PHOEPA: “Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism.” If this concept is generalized in the world, I am pretty sure that we will create more conflicts in more countries. Just a couple quick questions, do you think that Iraq should be divided then?
How about Northern Irland?

Chinese looking for solution:

I read a blog post and find the argument quite interesting on why people in China are not trusting that Tibetans are only seeking autonomy:

"With the imagination that American and the west would support them economically, I think that the Tibetan independence would continue regardless what the CCP would do, western style democracy included. Just look at the Quebec independence movement, they almost succeeded in 1995: the "no to independence" camp won, but only by a very small margin — 50.6% to 49.4%, It is a stunning result considering that one of the biggest city in Quebec – Montreal has a sizable English speaking Canadians (30 %).
There are many reports stated that the younger generation of Tibetan, once attended Chinese universities outside of Tibet, are more supportive to independence movements. This is very troubling. This reminded me of the situation of the African Americans in the US. I think you can find a sizable number of African American people that they always think that American could never do enough for the African Americans to compensate the sin of the slavery. China never enslaved the Tibetans, but we did have had our history of Culture revolution, regardless whether it is specifically targeted to Tibetans (it is not, but nobody cares).
I think the fair question is: would China ever do enough to make the Tibetan happy in the face of the western support of the independence movement?
The “no” answer would certainly have its influence on China’s Tibetan policy. "

PHOEPA:

Tibet is the area where most people speak Tibetan and follow Tibetan Buddhism. It includes many areas that the Chinese have annexed to neighboring Chinese provinces such as Qinghai and Gansu. These correspond roughly to the eastern parts of the traditional Tibetan provinces of Kham and Amdo.

That is why so many of the March protests were in "western China", not in Tibet. Just because the Chinese government decided to declare these people as "Chinese" and not Tibetan doesn't mean they will become so. They have always been Tibetan and they remain so.

Authoritarian governments like the PRC and colonialists like the Chinese people like to believe they can destroy people's lives and make them change their entire being by order. Fortunately that's not always the way it works. This is not about some notional "greater Tibet" -- it's just Tibet. All of it.

When the Chinese go to any part of Tibet, including any of the areas they are so keen to describe as "greater Tibet", they usually express horror and disgust at the food. Getting them to eat tsampa would be a miracle. So, why go there at all? Take your rice noodles and go back to China.

termfret Chinese:

to Samuel4:
I like your “Plato’s analogy of the cave" and agree many things you said in your post.

But do you know that you just fell into the same trap with Grace Wang that you only saw the shadows but not the reality? Having sympathy with her and supporting her freedom of speech is one thing (I do too), praising her act is quite different (I don't).

I guess that both American and Chinese could behave like the chained prisoner because they all have their prejudice.

rymnd2008:

hilbob,

when will USA elect its FIRST president from ethnic minority?

1. USA is a country where racism is a norm;
2. USA is a country where media rules public opinion under the banner "freedom of speech".

Under these conditions, the chance, USA will ever elect a president from ethnic minority is pretty slim. Chance is one can win a multi-billion lottery than win a presidency if you are an ethnic minority in USA.

Yes of course you can run but you will NEVER win.

Samuel4:

Haven't you guys heard “Plato’s analogy of the cave”? According to Wikipedia: allegory of the cave, Plato used “the analogy of the cave” to illustrate his idea of forms. The analogy goes like this:

“Imagine several prisoners who have been chained up in a cave for all of their lives. They have never been outside the cave. They face a wall in the cave and they can never look at the entrance of the cave. Sometimes animals, birds, people, or other objects pass by the entrance of the cave casting a shadow on the wall inside the cave. The prisoners see the shadows on the wall and mistakenly view the shadows as reality.”

“However, one man is released from his chains and runs out of the cave. For the first time, he sees the real world and now knows that it is far beyond the shadows he had been seeing. He sees real birds and animals, not just shadows of birds and animals. This man is excited about what he sees and he goes back to his fellow prisoners in the cave to tell them about the real world. But to his astonishment, they don’t believe him. In fact, they are angry with him. They say the shadows are reality and that the escaped prisoner is crazy for saying otherwise. According to Plato, the world outside the cave represents the world of forms while the shadows on the wall represent objects in the physical world. The escape of the prisoner represents philosophical enlightenment and the realization that forms are the true reality. Most people are like the prisoners in the cave. They think the shadows are reality. Philosophers, though, are like the man who escapes the cave and sees the real world. They have true knowledge."

"In another version of the analogy, there is a pathway through the cave which people cross with a fire behind it. It is this which casts the shadows, so when the prisoner turns round, he first sees the fire which caused the shadows, then the cave entrance; so he goes through several different ideas of reality.”

Do you guys know what happens to those Chinese Chauvinists? They are exactly like prisoners confined to the cave prison built and maintained by Chinese Communist Party for more than fifty years. It would be really hard for those Chinese prisoners, especially for those who still have illusions for CCP, to believe the philosophical enlightenment of democracy and realize the true reality of “One world, one standard” represented by the escaped prisoners, e.g. Grace Wang on Duke Campus and others who are ready to share opinions from the outside world.

Greg:

to Mr real dude
I have extreme shame on you!I can't understand why you dare say so awful words about Chinese students.You are a Chinese immigrant.I think you should know accurately and thoroughly what the truth is about China.Why are the Chinese students so angry about people vilifying China and advocating Tibet independence?Western people are ignorant about China,they just stupidly believe their own media.And western media are so horrible.They don't report the real truth;they just report China used cruel violence to surpress protest(It was not a peaceful protest,it was a shocking riot as matter of fact).The media called Tibet a country and it is an occupied country by China.This is totally nonsense!You live in America you know this,right?What you think hearing those nonsense?You were Chinese.

The Chinese students are not thogs.They just bravely defend their motherland's honor.Since they are surrounded with arrogant and ignorant and hostile western people,they should react to those nonsense opposition strongly.You sound a ugly and annoying nuisance Carfty.Actually Americans,your host country's soldiers and police officers are thogs.Look at what American soldiers did to Iraq and Afghan.The situation in Iraq is mess.So is Afghan's situation.America is a terrible invader.They massacre innocent civilians or torture them cruelly.Under America's control Iraqi and Afghanistans don't have human rights whatsoever.It is real genocide.China has serious and extreme concern about those countries.

America's friends are so awful too.Britain is just like America's dog.Britain is so stupid that he took part in invasion of Iraq and so called anti-terrorism war.Look Britain,he is now the top target of attack around Europe.It is fantastic!He deserve that.France is stupid too.He deserve boycott.Germany is Nazi.so Germany can be a good friend of America.Because they share the same values---Killing nations beyond white world.What Satan Allies you are!

Real dude, your comment about China and Chinese students in US is unforgivable totally.I feel sick of your spirit and your allegiance to America.Don't say again you were Chinese,that will definitly humiliate the whole Chinese.Screw you!and May God hate you!

Eric Heagy:

@ Geez:

I was around for the first four of the eight 'hard years' you point to under Chen. He campaigned on solid issues: ending black gold, extending social justice, and creating greater political space for Tawain self-determination. Lien Chan was lackluster with few fresh ideas and little vision. So, Lien and Soong split the vote and Chen slipped in -- but his message resonated and had substance.

What's the source of your dissatisfaction? That Chen is a thief! Okay...have the allegations been sorted out by an 'independent' investigative council? Not really. The public white wash of Chen has equalled a feeding frenzy pumped up by KMT supported media. Most of the crap brought against him(again, not his son-in-law or wife)amounts to a misuse of a spending fund much like the one Ma was recently pardoned for abusing by the high court of Taiwan. Double standard? Geez, you don't seem to have your shorts in a wad over Ma spending hundreds of thousands of Taipei city tax dollars to wine and dine guests, right? What about Ma's wife and her cozy relationship with banking interests in Taipei. Conflict?

Hey, thank the effectiveness of the KMT and other anti-Chen factions from blocking any meaningful legislation or policy ideas supported or put forward by Chen for the last eight years. That would suck, I agree. Honestly, I think the DPP legislative body has done a worse job than Chen, really. They indulged themselves in bickering and did little to really back Chen's ideas at critical times.

Check the polls after China owns half of Taiwan and Chen will look a little better. That's where your headed with Ma.

Anonymous:

Chris

"It definitely seems to be the case that the U.S. has neither reasons nor moral high ground for a boycott of the Olympics and that waiting until just before the opening ceremony before deciding what to do. It can surely be stated right now that a boycott would both backfire and be the height of hypocrisy by the U.S."

You are assuming any nation shows up. If China can not contain the current epidemic hiting tens of thousands of children there, do you believe any nations health organization will allow anyone to go or come back, pandemic anyone????

lauwei:

What is fascinating is that here in China this whole bogus protest movement against Carrefor has just tanked and fizzled out before it even got started. It was not supported nationwide. It is just a lot of hot air with zero intellectual basis. I live 5 minutes from a Carrefor in Shanghai. May 1st, about 15 20 year olds were there with flags but the store was packed with everday shoppers. When interviewed, the shoppers there and nationwide, particularily in Beijing, the political capital, said that the whole thing felt like a return to the national furvor to denounce fellow Chinese by the red youth. Beijing had about 200 protesters in a city of 30 million people. What does that tell you? All this blogging is a big joke.

Troyce key:

to THMAK

....the west has done worst human atrocities in the world?

Really?

Even though China's history is an endless river of blood of waring warlords showcased in the endless stream of movies released here; its own blood thirsty invasions of surrounding nations, and Mao who killed 70 million fellow Chinese, and don't forget the astonishing Cultural Revolution that either murdered and forced into slavery through its reeducation processes the displacement of millions of Chinese who were separated from their families and sent to distant provinces to work in farms and coal mines. In your mind, that never counts, huh?

real dude:

Democracy in China? I'm a chinese immigrant, and I have to say there are more brain-washed university red guard chinese students in America than in China. Some of them are very close to thugs. On the Tibet issue, I saw really radical chinese students shouting the party lines and are very aggressive towards people expressing other opinions. They even don't realize this is AMERICA!! Rarely any of these guys examine why there is so much negative opinion on China. Look at China's buddies: Myanmar, North Korea, Iran, Sudan ... anywhere there is massacre and oppression, there is China. I am sicken and tired of my own country.

Anonymous:

Now how to stop those pesky activists from protesting during the Olympics?

John:

John could say the same about the South and North in America then and now. I am sure you would not be pleased if some of us want to be independent from the US.
---------------

Taiwan was part of China for only a very short time, and before that it was ruled in succession by Portuguese, Japanese and other colonial powers. By the PRCs logic these nations all have a claim to Taiwan.

The most important thing is that the Taiwanese themselves do not want to unite with the mainland. They identify as their own nation, with its own culture and national identity. Robbing them of their sovereignty and asserting that it's a part of the Mainland because of an old honor feud between the KMT and CPP is cruel and unjust.

Wuer Kaixi:

KYT, it appears you believe that the unrest in Tibet was engineered by the Dalai Lama. Except when organized by the State, when does any coordinated protest occur? Isn't within the realm of possibility that this was a spontaneous reaction to Chinese oppression? It really is sort of hard to tell when the "thugs and goons" in charge restrict access. You'll notice that I used the qualifier "in charge" so as to avoid a libel suit over hurting the feelings of the Chinese people.

Chris:

It definitely seems to be the case that the U.S. has neither reasons nor moral high ground for a boycott of the Olympics and that waiting until just before the opening ceremony before deciding what to do. It can surely be stated right now that a boycott would both backfire and be the height of hypocrisy by the U.S. This is also not an issue that should be used as a pressure point to try to get Chinese cooperation on Darfur. One of the most fundamental questions I hope you’ll try to clarify is: on what secular authority does the Dalai Lama base his claims? He is not an elected representative. As the hereditary head of a traditional hierarchical and non-democratic religious organization, he has a certain status as a leader in society in general that resembles a bit the social status of someone like, perhaps, Billy Graham or the late Jerry Falwell in the U.S. However, if a leading American religious leader had attempted to negotiate with the U.S. government for territorial rights inside the U.S. so that its members could escape, say, the pernicious influence of modern science, what would be the secular legal grounds for this claim? Of course this is a rhetorical question. But when the Dalai Lama’s claims are discussed, he is usually presented in the American media as being the legitimate political representative of an oppressed people. This seems like quite a leap. He is a charismatic religious leader, but his territorial and political claims need to be examined in a 21st-century legal framework. His charisma can never be a substitute for the rule of secular law. The very fact that the Dalai Lama doesn’t wish to return to Tibet under conditions of certain geographical borders and under a strict separation of church and state is suspicious and lends some credence to the Chinese government’s claims. It is the Dalai Lama’s status as a socioeconomic and political actor which is in question, not his limited status as a strictly religious leader. I hope you’ll discuss the status of the Dalai Lama’s claims from the standpoint of international law and also examine the problem of freedom of religious belief in contemporary Tibetan society from the point of view of Confucianism, Daoism, shamanism, and other religions which may not recognize the authority of the Dalai Lama — as well as from the point of view of secularists and atheists. I myself need to do more research on this problem, but it is obviously a multi-layered, complex situation not amenable to simplistic solutions such as self-righteous boycotts. I have to agree with those who are arguing that solutions can only be achieved slowly and painstakingly by the Chinese themselves and that foreigners should enter the debate only after recognizing the integrity of China’s borders.
— Posted by Chris

KYT:

China really needs to modernize its propaganda machine and to compete in the world of media. What this current Tibet affaire shows is really China’s total failure in the world of media.

China has been so powerful and successful in the world of manufacturing, and yet fails to spread a few simple words outside of China, like Theocracy, Slavery and Cult on the subject of Dalai Lama.

Why is it that it is so hard to spread the facts of Dalai Lama?

Can anyone deny that the old Tibet under His Holiness the Dalai Lama was a Theocracy?

Can anyone deny the old Tibet under His Holiness the Dalai Lama was a form of Slavery where 95% of Tibetans were subject of various monasteries?

In the dictionary, what do you call a mystifying religion that worships a living God? Don’t you call it Cult?

Why is it that the West shows no sympathy to the whole Tibetan population under 100% shacks of the Dalai Lama religious CULT?
What happens to the light of Renaissance? What happens to modernity?

Only Arabs need modernity, Tibetans don’t deserve modernity?

Even in Wikipedia, it is stated that the very Dalai Lama as a theocracy was established by a Chinese emperor. If China has no sovereign over Tibet how could China bestow Tibet’s living God?

The question all the people in China want to know is:

Why it is so hard to spread the facts of Dalai Lama and his old Tibet?

Wuer Kaixi:

Christian Brotherhood, you seem to have no trouble making personal attacks. Perhaps you would like to address my statements.

MR C:

Yeah, Tibet, the Torch debacle, their refusal to move Myanmar, their support for the genocide in Dafur are all working out so well for them.

Christian Brotherhood:

Wuer Kaixi:
Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?


-------------------------------------------

Are you really that idiot who egged on the young students in Tianmen sqaure in 1989 while planning your own escape? You coward infidel! Get out of the US of A; you don't belong here!

Christian Brotherhood:

Wuer Kaixi:
Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?


-------------------------------------------

Are you really that idiot who egged on the young students in Tianmen sqaure 1989 while planning your own escape? You coward infidel! Get out of the US of A; you don't belong here!

Anonymous:

John said:
I'm fluent in Chinese and have lived in both Mainland China and Taiwan. They are not the same country and their culture is not the same. Most Taiwanese I talk to do not want to reunite with Mainland China and their voice should be respected
-----------------------------------------

John could say the same about the South and North in America then and now. I am sure you would not be pleased if some of us want to be independent from the US.

Wuer Kaixi:

Ken, you want to give them some time? OK, let's wait until after the Olympics, assemble some democracy activists in Tianamen Square, then see how long it takes the PLA to start shooting.

Greg, if you think politics should be separated from religion, why does the CCP have to vet any religious organization before it can operate in China?

Troyce Key, do you think that if Japan bashing would serve their interest in maintaining control, the CCP would hesitate to resume doing so?

Pomfret, do you suppose that the Taiwanese will ever be able to pay off the tinpot dictatorship on the mainland?

greenpoint:

There was a young lady from Niger,
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
At the end of the ride
The lady was inside,
And the smile was on the face of the tiger.

Cecil of Kirkland:

As a mainlander, I'm sympathetic of Taiwan's desire of its own identity. I say that as a Chinese (who I think Taiwanese ultimately are) and for the sake of China (the government).

My concern is that China may be unwittingly stoking an identity of a separate nation in TW by refusing to accept the reality of two separate states.

The Chinese government is a fool if it thinks by winning those "recognition" battles will win the war of belongingness, particularly when the TW government is democratically elected. By denying the rightful place of their government, China is humiliating the people who elected it. The pride one takes in one's own choice of polity is something most mainlanders never experienced.

Therefore, the real right notes are from the ones in China who advocate a more pragmatic approach. But as this article points out, sometimes, even those strategically imperative decisions (such as renewing relations with the Vatican) are shaped by seemingly petty bureaucratic infighting.

Not that this is anything unique about China though. When it comes to ideolo-bureaucratic interests taking foreign policy hostage, no one--by scale or by audacity--beats the United States of America.

John:

I'm fluent in Chinese and have lived in both Mainland China and Taiwan. They are not the same country and their culture is not the same. Most Taiwanese I talk to do not want to reunite with Mainland China and their voice should be respected.

Greg:

Yes,it is a good fact that Mr Ma became the Taiwan's new elected leader.Because his political ideas are very practical and constructive for China's complete union progress.or at least closer and wider cooperation between Beijing and
Taibei.We are all Chinese.We should reunite to become a whole entity.Hongkong,Macao successfully came back to China mainland.Taiwan should get closer to China mainland.Because Chinese around the whole territory should work together to compete with other international competitors in every field.Science,medcine,hi-tech,sports,entertainment,etc.No matter where any Chinese comes from,they should have full access to the whole Chinese any kind of resources.for example human resources,natural resource,labor resource,land resources,market resources and so on.In doing so,we can become more competent and have big chance to lead the world in economy and other ways.The whole China can have more influence in the world and in the international affairs.We can take more responsibilities to make big contributions to the earth.And one more good thing:any Chinese no matter where they comes from will feel very proud and much confident.I think that is what the whole Chinese want to achieve.

But in achieving that big goal,both sides---Taiwan and Beijing should talk about political cooperation.I think the effective political solution can make both sides unite again in a perfect way.

As for Dalai Lama,I don'think the above talk can work on him.Because he is a spiritual leader.He has influence in religion.I think politics should be seperated from religion.Since he is an influential figure in religion,then he should return to religion.He had better commit himself compeletely to Buddhism.Never touch politics!Not to mention independence.Be smart!Dalai Lama.Beijing should talk to Dalai Lama in a different way and base on a different principle.Religion is religion;politics are politics.Don't push Dalai Lama!

Jed Clampett:

bravo zhubajte. interesting to hear a good spirit and how they express themselves... without hyperbole or exagerations or distortions. Keep up the good works.

Angkor (what?) Get rid of your virus/trojan/spywear. That's what's causing your pop ups, not the site.

zhubajie in Beijing:

Yet again, Mr Pomfret, you have very cleverly perceived a trend of profound significance in China.

In this Olympic year China's diplomacy has been planned as statesmanlike, with a hand of friendship and dialogue being extended to areas where previously there was only frost.

If Tibet had not happened to ruin the pre-planned Chinese script, we would all be hailing on front pages around the world Hu's meeting in Hainan with the Guomindang as the most positive thing to happen in cross-Straits relations in the past 15 years; and now Hu plays ping-pong and hands out pandas to the people who are nightly on Japanese television portrayed as evil guezi.

China is playing its part in the six-party talks, the Iran nuclear issue and also in Darfur, though not to the Western media's liking.

All these things are of profound and positive impact for China and the world. But the PR disaster of Tibet has cast a vast pall over China's achievements and the way it is changing before our very eyes.

You are quite right, Mr Pomfret, there is a profound discord between China's actions, and its words through mouthpieces like Xinhua, Renmin Ribao and China Daily. I think it's evidence that Hu is behaving like a statesman, while his state-run and centrally-controlled media cannot break the habits of its leaders' Cultural Revolution upbringing and resort to lies, distortions, half-truths and demonisations of the Dalai Lamai, CNN, Jack Cafferty and Grace Wang in an incompetent and deeply unpleasant bid to persuade world opinion.

Far better to let Hu take the stage and open and reform China through actions, than to allow the shrill, bad voices of the state media machine repeat their mantras of hate and dogma. One day gaige kaifang will roll through the Chinese media and these people will all be out of a job. Roll on that day.

And just a note to Sadie. What a tiresome old argument you trot out. Do try and be original, dear. I'm a Westerner, I've come to China and work here, and I'm an expert in my field both here and in the West and I find much to criticise about your government's appalling barbarism in Tibet. I would love to take the spirit of your advice and find out for myself, by taking an extended trip to Tibet. However your government won't allow me.

Gsme, set and match to me, I think.

Angkor:

Good summary review of China's recent foreign policy -- except for the intrusive and unmovable box-ad two-thirds of the way down which blocks a good part of the article!

thmak:

To Troyce Key: Since slightly before 1839, China has been under the constant onlaught by the West and later on savagely by Japan up to the present. When Chinese study their recent history,they learn mainly the humuliation forced upon them by foreigners in contrast to the peaceful American history for about the same period of time. It is not that easy to forget 170 years of suffering, a period longer than any other country. So far, the Chinese hate of foreigners has not turned into any devastating unilateral/premptive invasion of their hated countries in contrast to USA, unless provoked. Just a thought, the West has been intensely immersed in the Christian religion of love and forgiving for the past 2000 more years. Yet the worst human calamities and devastations in the world were wrought by the West. I hope uou understand.

Angkor:

Good summary review of China's recent foreign policy -- except for the intrusive and unmovable box-ad two-thirds of the way down which blocks a good part of the article!

DocChuck:

This forum will never have any educational value so long as chinese are allowed to deposit their venom, hatred, ignorance and propaganda on it.

Mr. Pomfret should continue writing his great analysis of the chinese world, but shut down the forum.

After all, such a forum would NEVER be allowed in china, would it?

Anonymous:

i don't know why you foreigner criticize the ccp ,if you have never studied about chinese histories ,please try not to be
misleaded by the media ,when you come to china ,you would know what is going on in china ,we welcome the ones that admire there is one china
i want to say there are only chinese ,not what Taiwanese,taiwan is always part of china


Hypocrite1:

To HiloBob:
Dude, I am glad that you come up these ridiculous excuses for our wrongdoings. However, I am going just set one of your ridicules straight as an example. As a physician practicing in the States, I can tell you everyone in medical research field knows that The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male conducted between 1930’s and 1972 in Tuskegee, Alabama. Penicillin was widely available since World War II (1940’s). Several hundred poor black males were either given placebo or nothing for their syphilis without their consent. Penicillin can cure the disease, period. I believe it was Presedent Clinton who appologized on TV. When I was a medical student, we were told in lecture that many african american distruct medical professions because of this and other reasons. This research study, along with many misdeeds or crimes in medical research we have conducted over the past half century brought so much changes along with restriction in the States so that many Big Pharms would prefer going overseas to conduct clinical trials and research.

sursum:

A business associate of mine returned to China after 20 years and is quite proud of his native land these days. He left a crippled, cruel and impoverished land and now rejoices for the progress on all fronts he witnessed. People who are my neighbours, immigrants from China, don't recogize the crap spewed by the Western media and for what it's worth, neither do I. If anybody bothered to read something of Chinese history one could easily understand the justified fear and mis-trust of the West and the fact they have overcome past nightmares speaks to an openess to be envied.

free is what I want too:

As a Chinese,I do do not want Tibet to be separated from China. I am satisfied with present relative piece and quiet environment. I do want our country to be prosperous and strong. So many years' mess and poverty, I really fed up with it. As review our history, I only feel shame and sorrow, when we are poor and falling behind, who will or shall help us? Today's improvement is mainly the result of our labour, I recognize that there are defects in our country,but every country has their own defects, we will improve gradually, please believe us.

Sadie:

As a Chinese university student who visited Tibet last summer, I regard myself as the right person to tell you the real situations in Tibet: Despite the relatively lower living standards compared to big cities in eastern part, the Tibetans share the equal opportunities to receive education, get access to welfare. And autonomy is successfully functioning. Besides, I have asked scores of students studying in the Chinese top universities whether they feel democracy in China, answers were positive. How can you American criticise China when you have NEVER EVER come here, nor know it well?

ohboytheyjustgrowfromtrees:

@HiloBob:

where did you come up with such a long stinky piece of sh/t? brainwashed by commie is unfortunate, brainwashed by wing-nuts is pathetic.

Geez...:

@Eric Heagy:

"Chen. He's a brilliant politician " ...LOL, put down that pipe already. After 8 yrs under him Taiwan is a mess. If Taiwan held a poll today his rate would be in single digit. There 's a good chance he will go to prison after step down. People talk preventing him from escaping the island after 5/20 like he's dirty thieve. that's what you call brilliant? what a moron.

To yabut:

Look at it positively.

If because of the Olympics, China is looking into the Tibet, Burma, Darfur and other issues,
I say why not?

It is not the means, but the ends that matter.

Eric Heagy:

I have no idea if Mr. Pomfret has spent as much time following Taiwanese society and politics as he has in the mainland, but my sense is that he's shooting from the hip on the first few paragraphs in this commentary. His analysis of Ma and Chen are flipped. Ma was previously mayor of Taipei (as was Chen before Ma) and he was a political train wreck. Luckily, the city runs itself and Ma was largely a symbolic figure because he's not very bright and is a bumbler. Ma has been groomed for his new role as president so top KMT officials can get on with selling Taiwan down the river to China -- all these fine folks stand to gain big from a more cozt relationship.

Most Taiwanese, however, in polls taken for many years, show that they have no interest in letting China get too close. They have every right to be distrustful. China's track record in Hong Kong is pathetic. Plus China's influence over Taiwanese television media through second party investors was been clearly evident the political propaganda leading up to the latest presidential election in Taiwan. And let me stick up for Chen. He's a brilliant politician and a firm proponent of Taiwanese independence. But he always had been willing to talk with China. It's China that would not talk with him. The allegations against him (not his son-in-law)have been distorted and blown out of proportion. The KMT political party has taken advantage of social unrest over the 'scandel' and made gains with the electorate -- I hope they have not dupped the Taiwanese into believing they are in full control of the Mainland relations. Now they are lining up to see Hu and company, China's policy makers are bringing out the best silverware to make a meal of Taiwan.

Lastly, I wonder how much time Mr. Pomfret has spent in Taiwan. I don't want to make an assumption in his case, however, many of the reporters doing the China beat have not. They are incredibly knowledgeable on Asian affairs, of course, but really lack insight into Taiwanese issues -- their reporting with the AP has often been dissappointing and lacks depth.

rymnd2008:

"All governments have blood on their hands for one reason or another."

Thanks very much.

Therefore, the statement should read "Shame on everybody" which is meaningless.

yangzhixiang:

As a chinese, i think present governmen has change a lot in the diplomacy, administration,environment protection,and so on,for the world's and the domestic pressure.

yabut:

All governments have blood on their hands for one reason or another. That is no reason to minimize any government's misdeeds. China is changing fast and trying hard to stick to its own ways while impressing the world at large at the same time.
And they're working extra hard now, pre-Olympics.

Tibet. Burma. Darfur.

And the exploitation of their own poor.

Shame on the Chinese Government.

Anonymous:

Smaule4 It's quite simple really, they don't want to have to live under the oppressive regime they themselves have set up in the mainland. Would anyone with the wealth they have ammassed from abusing power, they want to be in a good, healthy place to spend it. Also, they wish to use their money and it's influence to slowly undermine the Taiwanese government, create violent dissent, create the conditions necessary to enslaven the Taiwanese as they have done the mainlanders.

Hilobob, I know it's rethorical, but... These posters claim things are so good in china, that Tibet is being developed and modernized, being brought into the new millenium. The numbers of people trying to escape and the way the border guards stop them from leaving... same way east german border guards did with those trying to escape east berlin... belie a different situation.
Thing is, a slave holder has a really hard time letting his property go, in many occasions they would much rather kill them than suffer the indignity of having lost another source of income. Evidently, the people, to the ccp are nothing more than property, to be used and bartered with rather than care for and help become prosperous.

HiloBob:

hypocrite1:

Firstly, I have seen this cut and paste everywhere. Redundancy of distortions and sins of omission only detract from your credibility to those who know the truth.

1) Waterboarding is used on terrorist suspects who are conspiratorial in trying to effect another 9/11 on everyday innocent Americans going about their daily lives. It's non-lethal like some of the methods you use.

If you were in our position would you just use the cattle prod technique so often cited by you former political prisoners detained in reformation camps or maybe something more onerous like a bullet in the back of the head for which the family is charged?

Oh that's right, you now have those fancy execution buses that are killing at a rate of almost one a day.

That's a hell of a way to deal with tax cheats don't you think? Who pays the taxes then??

2) The Branch Davidians were an apocalyptic group who used accelerants to immolate their own children and executed followers as FBI agents were being shot trying to rescue them...what would you have done??

3) Who knows where you have your prisons? We are open about what we do and those who were involved in wrongdoing at Abu Ghraib have been punished.

4) Kurds were mass slaughtered by poison gas under Saddam. It is not in our best interests to have Iraqis killing each other over sectarian divisions that have existed for hundreds of years. We just can't make them stop it.

5) Yes, we were misled about weapons of mass destruction as we deposed Saddam, but our ELECTORATE can and will reverse course in the coming free and open election.

Democracy must be such a heavy burden to the Chinese people that your government spares them the trouble.

6) Our mistreatment of Native Americans took place in a time of history when all major powers in the world were colonizing and subjugating people where they could, including China. They were men of their times and still believed in a sort of Darwinian superiority that justified what they did.

Are you going to apologize for Ghengis Khan? Or how about someone more contemporaneous like Mao Ze"DUNG" who slaughtered 70 million of his own?

7) Native Americans are enjoying newfound wealth from casinos, at least the ones who choose to live on their AUTONOMOUS reservations.

Autonomy, now there's a concept. Maybe you should try that with the Tibetans. I'll bet they'd like that.

8) The Tuskegee experiment was a horrific event involving black men who were already infected with syphilis when the experiments were begun and at a time when there was no effective treatment for it.
That was also a time in our history when blacks were considered inferior.

A black man is now running for president and I plan to vote for him.

By the way how many blacks or any other minorities are in the National Congress of the Communist Chinese Party or the Politburo Standing Committee out of the over one billion members of your society??

Our citizens are freely allowed to criticize our government and carry signs just like the ones you propose to meet our athletes with...I'm all for it if we can bring our own that demand "Free Tibet" and "Free Political Prisoners" or "Democracy for Chinese Citizens"...you get the point.

Oh, and here's a cut and paste I found.

The Associated Press

Published: January 31, 2007
DHARAMSALA, India:

"Nearly three dozen Tibetans captured by Chinese troops as they tried to sneak out of their homeland were tortured with cattle prods and forced to do hard labor, a teenager who identified himself as one of the former detainees said, in the first reported account of the fate of the group.

Jamyang Samten, 15, said Tuesday that he was one of 75 Tibetans who tried to cross the 5,800-meter-high, or almost 20,000-foot-high, pass called Nanpa La on Sept. 30.

Chinese border guards opened fire on the group, killing a 25-year-old Buddhist nun and another person. The incident was filmed by a mountaineering expedition and broadcast by a Romanian television station, bringing an international outcry.

Forty-one of the refugees managed to reach India after the shooting, but 32 others were caught and detained."

How about letting Tibetans vote with their feet unimpeded?

Like maybe a U.N. supervised opening of the Chinese-Tibet border just to see if everyone in Dharamsala flees back to Tibet??

smaule4:

Historically Taiwan serves as the refuge for those rich people and politicians from down-falling Chinese dynasties. Recently a wave after another wave of rich people and communist politicians are paying visits to Taiwan. Most of them go looking for real estate rather than for simple sightseeing in Taiwan. Do they sense that the impending collapse of communist government or the possibility of any chaos may arise in the near future in China? Otherwise, why are they so anxious to seek sheltering in Taiwan? The frequency of their coming and going makes people feel quite unusual and suspect something serious may happen soon. Can anybody explain the situation?

To burma:

China will continue to prop up North Korea, since it is in its interests.

burma:

I think China has made some positive steps of late but I would like to see Beijing step up to the plate with Burma. They are one of the few countries left with any sway with the junta and its time they used it.

Troyce Key:

To Anonymous, why don't you tell everyone about all your "duck stores" here in China? Oh! I guess you forgot in your zeal to spew more hate and revenge.

Well, for those of you here who aren't familiar with the term-'duck store', it refers to male brothels. Ducks are male prostitutes who serve Chinese women and are exceedingly popular in China. Duck stores have been around for centuries, long before the west arrived here.

kang:

Troyce Key:

This is a culture where they go their entire lives and never say "I love you' to anyone. Literally. Not to their families or their children or their spouses.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Trocyce,

let me tell you the correct translation of love in chinese, xihuan(喜欢).

The counterpart of love in chinese is not ai(爱), which may involve commitment, devotion and responsibility etc.

If you are in china, you surely can hear xihuan(喜欢) a lot, but rarely ai(爱), which I bet nobody has ever said to you in your life in english.

Anonymous:

"This is a culture where they go their entire lives and never say "I love you' to anyone. Literally. Not to their families or their children or their spouses."

Does ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME count? I guess you have never partaken in the cheap paid love from any of the tens of millions of chinese hookers worldwide. Not to mention if you are white and living in China, payment would definitely not be required.

Troyce Key:

One interesting thing Hu said, while in Japan, was that it is time for the Chinese to stop holding grudges against Japan, and move on. It is a good thing. But for a nation that holds grudges as a national hobby and pastime, I wonder just how real Hu will make good on his words and how effective they will be. All these postings to this site and other blogs all cite grudges that the Chinese still hold that go back several hundred years to the First Opium War and onward. And, thats just ton the west! The grudges go back to the Monguls when Khan beat their asses good.

I live in China. For 8 years all I hear Chinese say-I hate the Japanese, I hate the West, I hate that country or that other country. Revenge revenge revenge!

Where are the peace loving Chinese they always describe themselves to be, but act like they never are?

This is a culture where they go their entire lives and never say "I love you' to anyone. Literally. Not to their families or their children or their spouses.

I have never ever heard one Chinese talk about the need to instill and build love. How can you be a peace loving culture without love as its core value?

Taiwan to China:

Don't touch me, you commie!

Taiwan is part of China:

The name is what I want to say!
Time is at the side our Chinese!Where is the west? They still dream to presse China with any shifts!Good bye,the bias & selfish west!

Anonymous:

HYPOCRITE2:

The whole west? That's a lot of countries.

Funny thing, Argentinians, Chileans and Uruguayans think of themselves as part of the "West", given their populations are all about 90% Europeans. However, only in Asia and anglo nations see them as not being part of the West.

Just a point.

Hypocrite2:

I know Western language and culture, I don't like the West.

I come and live in the West, I don't like the West.

I work and play in the West, I don't like the West.

mtlyorel:

Hi Pomfret,

Looks like you've been enjoying vintage Mao-Tai. I'm shocked at the gushing entries on China.

China's diplomacy has always been one of 'hot and cold' and plays the other countries like a fiddle. All this charm offensive can be summed up with one word: Olympics.

However it is very comforting to see that China and Japan as well as China and Taiwan each have decided to bury the hatchet - for the time being at least - and work together to make (more) money for themselves.

Say what you will about money, but the mutual desire to generate (more) wealth is the most powerful incentive for peace. 'Dem gold nuggets trump all historic grievances and regional rivalries.

Anonymous:

to a chinese:

same as you, I was born and grew up in China and also went to college there . If you want to know how much China has improved and how fast is improving, go live there.

A Chinese:

Hi hypocrite1,

I'm a 43 years man from China, I grew up and gent college there. My suggestion to you is: US may have these and those problems, to understand how precious this society is, go to China and live there.

Alfred Standler:

No, the U.S. bombed the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia because the Chinese were implicated in running weapons to Milosevic.

Anonymous:

to Hypocrite1:

Brilliant. You have really pointed out a few things, one, governments are not much the same world over, except, Iraq was not closed off like Tibet. One might think that China must see Tibet as more dangerous than Iraq??? You see my friend, the big difference is, nothing you pointed out is secret or hidden, if not very exagerated. 1 million dead in Iraq, please. At least keep your estimates in the realm of say, reality vs fantasy. If you had said 200,000 dead and say 1 million refugees, then fine. When using statistics, try to lower the number to say 75% of reality vs increasing it by 300%+. Second, repeating yourself makes people more likely to think like you. That does not make sense. Make your point, stop spamming. Third, back with the rehashing of history, that works. lol. Fourth, Native Indian reserves make billions and billions a year in profits, easy money, for decades. If they have not made it big with the profits, no tax, welfare, etc... Then what, make it so all of them win the lottery??? You fail to understand, the Indian issue is more about culture, then about money. If you make billions a year, yet do not invest it properly, you end off building nothing. Free money for all, just like China does for its 800 million rural farmers. No, that does not make sense, China has $1.5 trillion in surplus reserves, they must have the top living standard to be able to save so much, best medical system where the response time means no epedemics, Clean water for all, great pensions, amazing clean air, blue skies for all, best education, greatest opportunities for all and equal. No forced child labour, no sex slavery, no women being kidnapped for wives or prostitution, no corruption, no secret policy that beat people in plain sight, no higherd thugs with bats killing dogs being walked, no mine disasters, the banks do not to be bailed out every five years because they record tens of billions worth of loans that will never get paid back, never steal intelectual property, never get food poisoning, etc. Wow, can I move there??? I had to stop as this can go on all day.

Hypocrite1:

Again I want to remind the Chinese who we Americans are:
1). We are not concerned at all that South Korea in 1988, a military dictator government that killed thousands students (with the support from America), hosted the Olympic game. We did not boycott anything.
2). We bombed Yugoslavia simply because the ethnic cleansing there killed a few ten thousand people in Europe. However, we watched and refused to save 1 million Tutsi being slaughtered by Hutu. Now we are watching genocide occurring again in Darfur. Where are our army and bombs?
3). We bought more oil from Saudis, another notorious dictatorial government that brutally suppress its citizens than the Chinese from Sudan. We are comfortable and not making any noise about this.
4). One million Iraqis died after we liberated them and 4 millions more are refuges. Now we are clamoring to send help to Myanmar. Why don’t we help some of these Iraqis.
5). We bombed Yugoslavia and made Kosovo independent. However, Dalai Lama claimed that 1.2 million Tibetans were killed by the Chinese. Where are our army and bombs? Are we cowards and hypocrites because we can bully a small country and has no gut to meet a real counterpart?

hypocrite1:

I have said many times, unless the Chinese adopted ways of our life, they can never be one of us. Here are my repeated recommendations:
1). Stop your outdated torturing technique and try our waterboarding, which is endorsed by our President G. W. Bush.
2). Learn how we have dealt Branch Davidians and lit them up in flame in Waco, Texas. This may enlighten you how to deal with those violent monks, particularly Dalai Lama who has been on our CIA’s payroll ($180,000 a year)
3). If you really need to jail someone, use secret prisons just like our CIA’s. Learn the advantages to install these facilities overseas.
4). You must learn how we loosen up prisoners in Abu Ghraib
5). You must learn the art of PR to convince the world to liberate another country, like we did in Iraq. We liberated Iraqis and now they have the unprecedented freedom to kill each other (we also provide weapons and teach them hand by hand).
6). You must learn our history of how we dealt with Native Indians and how we show the world of their wonderful Indian conservation. Adding a casino would be a plus. We believe that this is particularly relevant to your Tibetan problem.
7). You must learn how to conduct human experiments to advance your science and technology. You must study the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study initiated by the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS), now called Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). See how we white Americans advance our human science by withholding penicillin and let the disease spreads and kills.
On the other hand, if you really want show the world how good you have learned from us. Do the following: greeting US athletes during the Olympic Games with banners of "Free Iraq!" "Stop genocide and ethnic cleansing in Iraq!" "Stop Gitmo!" "Stop water boarding and torturing prisoners!" "Stop CIA’s secret prisons!" "Yankees, please teach Chinese how to run Tibetan reservation/casinos like your Indian reservation/casinos"

hypocrite1:

I have said many times, unless the Chinese adopted ways of our life, they can never be one of us. Here are my repeated recommendations:
1). Stop your outdated torturing technique and try our waterboarding, which is endorsed by our President G. W. Bush.
2). Learn how we have dealt Branch Davidians and lit them up in flame in Waco, Texas. This may enlighten you how to deal with those violent monks, particularly Dalai Lama who has been on our CIA’s payroll ($180,000 a year)
3). If you really need to jail someone, use secret prisons just like our CIA’s. Learn the advantages to install these facilities overseas.
4). You must learn how we loosen up prisoners in Abu Ghraib
5). You must learn the art of PR to convince the world to liberate another country, like we did in Iraq. We liberated Iraqis and now they have the unprecedented freedom to kill each other (we also provide weapons and teach them hand by hand).
6). You must learn our history of how we dealt with Native Indians and how we show the world of their wonderful Indian conservation. Adding a casino would be a plus. We believe that this is particularly relevant to your Tibetan problem.
7). You must learn how to conduct human experiments to advance your science and technology. You must study the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male, also known as the Tuskegee Syphilis Study initiated by the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS), now called Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). See how we white Americans advance our human science by withholding penicillin and let the disease spreads and kills.
On the other hand, if you really want show the world how good you have learned from us. Do the following: greeting US athletes during the Olympic Games with banners of "Free Iraq!" "Stop genocide and ethnic cleansing in Iraq!" "Stop Gitmo!" "Stop water boarding and torturing prisoners!" "Stop CIA’s secret prisons!" "Yankees, please teach Chinese how to run Tibetan reservation/casinos like your Indian reservation/casinos"

CASTRO:

"The west never understand a WSD in China will be ,by no mean, a favour to the west."

Very, Very true. The west seems to assume that a communist run China has a lot of ambition, but if it were a democracy, there be less ambition? Democracy by its very nature is ambitious. Russia anyone? They were communist, but now they are more ambitious. Democracy is usually just a popularity contest, in which a few rich and hand picked ego manics spend a ton of money they get from special interests. They push everyone to listen to their and I use the term their views very loosely. Democrats/Republicans, ya that is a choice on par with McDonalds/Burger King? Democrecy is pointless, depending on the envolvement of the people and no insurance to peace and security. For example, America, not much choice there. Italy, South Korea and Japan, more about old guys trying to avoid scandle and being caught with there hands on the bribes. England, only attention they get is in the tabloids, it is like a soup opera. Russia and the other former Soviet countries, spend more time making excuses than decisions. There are some that seem to work fairly well, not sure if it is because of the culture or the system. Canada seems to work, nothing very radical, powers are limited, etc. Germany seems to work, Finland, Norway, etc work well. To a smaller extent, so does Portugal and Brazil, if not the most efficient, they are stable and do not tend to fail due to public strikes. Most of the South and Central American countries seem far to chaotic.

rymnd2008:

The softly-softly approach towards japan could have NEVER EVER happened, if China is a western style democracy (WSD). In this respect, I rather wish China to adopt WSD to take harder line against japan.

The general public opinion towards japan now and then is somewhat distorted by Chinese government.

We should be very pessimistic about Sino-jap relationship in the future when general opinions is allowed to shown.

The west never understand a WSD in China will be ,by no mean, a favour to the west.

diplomacy is better than war:

One of Deng XiaoPing's famous quote is "Whether a cat is black or white makes no difference. As long as it catches mice, it is a good cat." --the Chinese government is not as ideology-driven as the US thinks (probably US is more ideology-driven than itself realizes), and China's Pragmatism approach definitely benefits China as well as the international community.

thmak:

So you conclude that China is not a threat to the World and behaves better internationally than USA.

Anon:

Pragmatism is a long Chinese tradition dating back to the Confusius :-). The current leaders may not be imaginative, but pragmatic. Things will likely cool down by the time of Olympic in the summer.

feel good :

diplomacy is always better than saber rattling or grandstanding.


Anonymous:

Just as Tibet can never be independent, Taiwan can never break free.

Shawn:

yo, Pomfret, you are updating pretty fast! Thanks!

I think Ken made a good point which compared with some extreme in this forum. The current leaders are pretty wise ( not the word "smart", but "wise"). We should give them some positive signal instead of tarnishing with vicious words. of course, certain pressure is always needed.

Feel quite sorry for Taiwan over loosing it's diplomatic space. But I believe as long as there's less tendency towards independence, there's no need for competing over this issue.

ken:

Chinese leadership, whatever criticism you may have for them, seem to have been wise and cool-minded. At least they know where they stand and what their country needs to become a real superpower.

Hope they can make progress in human rights in China, after decades of development lifted millions of people out of poverty.

We should give them some time, while keeping pressure in terms of transparency, democracy, and freedom.

SIMS:

China, now, is trying a bit too hard, judging by the timing.
Still, a warmer Sino-Japan relation goes a long way.

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