Comments (113)

Criticizing a government of 1.3 Billion is indeed easy, I don't think I will be able to do anything else for the rest of my life if I try to enumerate their faults. But I am not about to join this alreeady big enough army of Chna bashers.

It is ironic all these economic achievements that the West sees as new opportunities would not have existed had China been a democracy. The Chinese model has been simple, achieve collective good at the expenses of some. This would never have been tolerated in a democratic society.

Democracy or authritarian, none of them is a perfect solution to China's problems. Instead of arguing which one of them is better, why don't people, at least those who do care about genuine progess in China, discuss how China can adopt a system that works? Who the hell cares what it is called? I imagine whatever system that works for China can never be labled and can never be a static system.

The centripetal forces in China today will continue to tear at the nation's social fabric. 19th century capitalism? What answer does that provide? Its excesses spawned the very Marxism that is the ideological basis of the Chinese state. What happens when China suffers a few years of sub-5% growth, or even a contraction. The Chinese state has not repealed the business cycle. China will reach the point where its political model becomes unworkable. And it will be a vicious mess.

@Simple Simon: "China will close itself off from the rest of the world, which, don’t forget, it has done for some 2,000 years,” said Jacques Rogge, Chairman of IOC in an interview.

As Simple Simon pointed out, this is BS. Rogge needs to go back to history class. For a start, he should read, "The Open Empire, A History of China to 1600", by Valerie Hansen, and "When China Ruled the Seas: The Treasure Fleet of the Dragon Throne, 1405-1433", by Louise Levathes. During the Tang Dynasty (618-907), when most Europeans were living in huts in isolated little villages, the Chinese were carrying on a vigorous trade and exchange of ideas with Central Asia and India (the silk road), as well as with Southeast Asia...during the Song Dynasty and later, the Chinese traded as far away as Africa. During the Tang there was a craze for all things foreign, such as foreign food (yogurt), foreign dances and music, foreign sports (polo), foreign clothes, etc. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs, Sogdians, Africans, Malayans, Vietnamese, etc., lived in the great Chinese cities such as Chang'an and Guangzhou. It is only unfortunate that the Manchus tended to isolate China later. OK, history lesson over. I just wish that people would stop talking about things they know nothing about and leave the Chinese to decide their own fate.

Democracy, Amercan-style, is very expensive.
Look at the time-consuming contest between the US presidential candidates.

They have to travel from state to state getting supporters.
They require a multi-million dollar "war chest" and campaign contributions.

In the end, the elected candidate will be obligated more to the campaign donors than to the electorate.

This system will not work in China.

There's an old joke in China, "Stalin (or some Russian Leader) was on his way to the UN, and his chauffeur asked, should I turn left or right, he said, 'Turn right.'. Then Dengxiao Ping (the Chinese leader) was also on his way to the UN, and his chauffeur asked the same question, and he said, 'Turn on the left blinker, and turn right.'"

This has become a sort of motto for the Chinese society as a whole. The same thing is prolly true when it comes to the propaganda that seeps into every aspect of daily Chinese life. Even scientific publication start with, "Under the leadership of the communist party...we have discovered..." And most Chinese have accepted this as a part of our culture. It is sort of like how Canada still calls her ships, HMS, or Her Majesty's Ships. Propaganda is everywhere in China, it'd prolly faze an unsuspecting freedom-loving and commi-hating American, but it is largely ignored as a formality by most Chinese.

It is interesting that the west places such a strong emphasis on human rights and free speech, while in China, people are not taken seriouly or mocked for being political - only peasants or labourors (simplitons basically) get caught up in those things. And this is how a lot of Chinese intellectuals view Americans and Europeans, naiive simplitons who do not know the true meaning of violent crackdowns or human rights abuses. The people who signed a petition boycotting LV prolly could never afford LV in the first place. The true focus of upper middle class Chinese life is office politics or moving out of China. While the upper class Chinese life, from what I've heard, is like the old days when the emperor was still around - limitless power and money pouring everywhere, and supplication to your superiors. But I'm probably boring my American readers about what Chinese actually care about.

People move out of China not for fear of political persecution. They move out for more opportunities ($$$) and because they hate the office politics scene, people spend their entire lives in one firm, the result is like a small American town down south where everyone knows everyone, also because their children can have a better future, etc. the usual immigrant story. The humble author of this comment himself is guilty of selling our his motherland in favor of the great nation of the US of A, and he is very very happy to be here.

NO NO NO.

I am chinese; and I an not anti-government; but I think the current system is only suitable for the next 3-5 years at most.

In order to keep up, the chinese government must evolve, change, and correct its problems EVERY YEAR just like it did in most years since 1978.

They'd better not to remain in a stand-still for the sake of their own existence. It is ok to have problems; let's put all issues on the table and resolve them. This is the only way Chinese as a nation can progress.

Is the system sustainable solely depend on one thing : can the chinese government develop a sustainable check and balance system which is the heart and soul of the democracy system. Human rights should be protected but standard may be set to fit China; free speech is nothing more then a way for people to let out their steam, chinese government should be willingly to let people say whatever they want which is good before a fully functional check and balance system deploy.

Overall, there is a system in developing, so sustain
is not the question, rather how a different ( then the USA)system be developed?

Software professionals have long known that it's not the best system that wins (otherwise you'd be using Unix now), but the most adaptive. So, the real question is not if the current Chinese system is sustainable, but if it's agile and adaptive enough. I personally think both the Chinese government and people have embraced the inevitability of changes. The famous "Mozhe Shitou Guohe" settles the tone for the future. It's good that the foreigners are constantly after us on various issues, so we know we need to change and reform. I think the future is on the brighter side for China.

At the same time I can't say the same for the US system. Many intellectuals have long been spoon-fed with the idea that they have the best system in the world, therefore lack the incentive, and even the willingness to change. They've been intellectually lazy for quite some time now. We've heard the "change" rhetorics from Obama, but then there's not much reality to backup his words, also the deep rooted sense of entitlement isn't going to change any time soon. I actually want to ask a similar question, is the current US political system sustainable? If not, how's that going to influence the world?

If what have happened in Tibet accidentally happened in LA or Chicago, a bunch of people waving knifes, throwing stones, killing people, and burning buildings, I am sure they would be welcomed with real bullets coming out of guns of police. And I seriously doubt media will shed any sympathy to these violent people despite of their motivations or causes.

But why are medias acting so differently when this happens in Tibet? And many of the postings here are desperately defending the media of accusation of bias by apparently Chinese or pro Chinese posters.

And it even went so far as to if those Chinese posters continue to protest the biased reports manufactured by our media, they need to GO BACK TO CHINA, because we are a country of FREE SPEECH.

Would like to hear any comments.

Really, if it isnt Tibet or Sudan, I'm sure interest groups in the West will inevitably find another issue to exploit. What next?

"Boycott the Olympics because Beijing doesnt have enough trees and parks" movement? "Boycott the Olympics because Chinese cabbie like to spit" movement?

What the PRC government really needs to do is to hire some PR consultants from the Israeli government, at least in the short term.

Longer-term, keep up the 10% GDP and 50% military budget annual growth , and things will resolve itself in favorable way. Might makes right. Look at US of A.

Really, if it isnt Tibet or Sudan, I'm sure interest groups in the West will inevitably find another issue to exploit. What next?

"Boycott the Olympics because Beijing doesnt have enough trees and parks" movement? "Boycott the Olympics because Chinese cabbie like to spit" movement?

What the PRC government really needs to do is to hire some PR consultants from the Israeli government, at least in the short term.

Longer-term, keep up the 10% GDP and 50% military budget annual growth , and things will resolve itself in favorable way. Might makes right. Look at US of A.

CNN claims to be RESPONSIBLE AND IMPARTIAL in their reporting.

RESPONSIBLE means you are accountable for your behaviour.

Has CNN accounted for their behaviour when they refers to CHINESE AS GOONS AND THUGS WITHOUT ANY RESERVATION?

THE ANSWER IS NO.

THIS IS AN EXTREMIST REMARK AND ITS INTENT IS TO STIR UP HATRED FOR THE CHINESE, YOU BET!

How about IMPARTIAL, which CNN proudly proclaimed?

EVERYONE KNOWS THE ANSWER TO THAT, DON'T WE?

FREEDOM OF SPEECH DO NOT GIVE A PERSON OR AN ORGANISATION LIKE CNN, THE RIGHT TO DISPENSE RACIAL HATRED THROUGH IRESSPONSIBLE, HIGHLY PARTIAL AND EXTREMELY BIASED AND LOP-SIDED ACT OR REPORTING.

LET'S NOT PRETEND THAT THIS IS AN UNINTENTIONAL ACT!

ON THE CONTRARY, THIS IS AN INTENTIONAL ACT TO SMEARS CHINESE ALL OVER THE WORLD AND TO STIR OTHERS TO HATE CHINESE WHEREEVER THEY ARE.

CNN IS NO ANGEL. IT IS AN ARCH ANGEL AND IT DISPENSE RACIAL HATRED FREELY!

What's so imperative to question if the system is sustainable or not? Being a software engineer, I know for a long time that the best quality software don't always win the market. It's the most agile that wins. So the better question to ask is, is there any willingness to change in China? I believe the answer to this is yes, while I can't say the same for the US, where people generally think they have the best system in the world and there's no need to any systematic change.

Nothing is sustainable. When the situation changes, the system will need to change with it. It would be intellectually lazy to think that you can get a sustainable system then stick to it for the next 2000 years. China has learned that lesson, and the general mood is that changes will happen and it's undergoing everyday. Not many people in China are against the changes as long as the changes are small, well experimented, planned, and progressively implemented. Chinese people are better mobilized than their US counterparts, who still think they are entitled to the $30 hourly pay assembling cars.

You've said it, Mozhe Shitou Guohe. The current anti-China sentiment in the west is a good reminder to Chinese that we are far from perfect, so we'll move on and make better changes.

History is full of examples of capable emperors in Roman and Chinese empires. So capable single-party rule is also possible, as long as there are no ego-mad leaders.

The American economy is great not because of the democratically-elected leaders, but because of private enterprise. Likewise the Communist Party does not micro-manage the economy and leaves it to the business experts instead.

In fact, all armies and businesses are not democratic institutions at all, where business leaders are not voted in, and can hire and fire as they please.

As a Chinese I can point out no Chinese is really proud of the human right situation in China, but most people are satisfied with the progress in the country. We are at a different development stage with regard to individual right when compared to the west. Yes, the progress is slow, very slow, but nonetheless it's moving forward. Chinese are often accused of being paranoid with stability. Yes, that's true. But we have all the rights to be paranoid because we know what chaos mean. Have you ever stood in a train station in China overwhelmed by hundred of thousands of people all around you? Can you imagine one single meal in China costs over a billion bow of rice. One single misstep or bad policy may cause disaster affecting million of lives. When the Soviet collapsed, it brought chaos for some time, but Russians were at a more advanced stage of development and they eventually were able to withstand it. China, on the other hand with its collosal country folks will not stand a chance under the same circumstance.

Western media often brushed aside Chinese view of their country, calling them not understanding the real situation because of news blockage. When a demonstration broke out against China, the news was swiftly broadcasted, when thousands of Chinese demonstrated for China in Canada just a few days ago. Not a single western media reported that. Would you think these people have lack of news access in Canada? In that sense, western media selective broadcasting is no difference from the Chinese media.

Often western media uses hidden terms to demonize the situation, like "China appointed governor of Tibet or Hong Kong". But when Hong Kong was a British colony, I never saw a single term "British appointed governor of Hong Kong". As a matter of fact, no citizen of HK even knew how the governor looked like until he landed. Bias can be hidden and the western media is making full use of them.

As the prime minister of Singapore had said, the youths of the west did not know the recent humiliation of Chinese will have serious consequence in their own lifetime. Unfortunately, it's true. The naive trust of any western by the Chinese had been broken by the latest saga. Meaningless animosity revealed by the people of the west against China will be faced off by the Chinese people with an equivalent senseless animosity. And what does that bring to the world?

Yea John, it deserves cheers? They probably can't even read your webpost? What are they so happy about again? Money, the absence of flagrantly horrible rights violations in exchange for freedom of speech, etc? So much to be happy about, right? Cmon.

I like to post as other people and back myself up.

Brambles, thanks for your mature and balanced approach of such a complicated matter and dealing with some of the aggressive and immature Posters.
Most people don't really know what they are writing about, because they never have been there and did not study the subject thoroughly.

TO Learn Something:

Thanks for the msg, really. Nothing is changed without a fight. For that I totally agree with you. I dont know how soon but you'll see changes. This is a country in transition. It changes in its own ways. I wish there's more I could do about it.
All I m saying is people like you (who does care to read and think about things Chinese) should at least have the courtesy of listening to a different voice. I m not saying what you see and read from your media are all biased. I for myself trust them much more than party propaganda and I receive most of the news through Your media. But as a Chinese, I also know when and how much to trust a journalist who has very limited understanding/experience of a country so different from the one he/she grew up with where he was indoctrinated with the notions like "communist oppression" just like we were indoctrinated with "the moral degeration of the capitalists". But that was decades ago.
There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of my people reading this post. I m among the few in actually posting a few words. I might as well act like most of other Chinese reading these msgs because, as Mr./Ms. YA RIGHT rightly put: I shouldnt "be making a fool of myself on American boards where nobody cares what you say". Funny, why do YA post about China and not about America on YA American boards?
Fact is, most of my fellow people dont post because they "dont care what you say". Make no mistake about it. They were fed up with the typical arrogance and ignorance.
It's easiest if the people of the east and west simply "dont care what each other say". But that does not make any sense.
Also, if peole of the west, even someone such as you, continue to think of the Chinese people as semi-autonomous RED ANTs, unable to reason and descide what's best for them, that's sad. That's nothing but bigotry. I wouldnt call that stupid but, is that "white-pride"?
There's no way and no need for communication if you dont treat others as equals. Then there's only the logic and talk of naked power. That does not make any sense either, particularly in a BBS.
Oh forget it. I'll just wait and see what new piece Mr. Pomfret will write.

"A wolf in sheeps clothing"

Do you mean I'm pretending to be a Chinese sheep but am actually and American wolf?

Or do you mean I claim to be an American sheep but am actually a Chinese wolf?

The sociological underpinnings of that statement is just too rich to be left unmined.

Whatever the construct, it means I'm a vicious wolf which in my line of business is a high compliment.

Does it matter what I am?

My shoe size is 11.

A wolf in sheeps clothing

I'm American

JoeBu

Let the first without sin, cast the first stone.

Without constant oppression, you would know what we are talking about and wouldn’t be making a fool of yourself on American boards where nobody cares what you say.

Our Confucius say:
"Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day."

Nice words from old Benny boy. But his liberty (and yours) was built on genocide. Without the mass wipeout of pesky natives, there would be no US of A.

So learn something.

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security".
I loved it the instant I read it. But are you talking about the Patriotic Act or the domestic eavesdropping law?
Let's learn together. We are all but part of the history. Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow... let's strut and fret no more.
--------------

One of the many things the American public doesn’t like is the Patriot Act. All aspects of it. That is the very reason we are working to remove those responsible for it, from power.

We understand you are a growing nation with many of the same problems all major nations experience as part of the growing process, but when your people cannot engage in debates such as these to voice their own opinions on Western media boards as you have done, that is a major issue. Not because they might re-enforce china's government rhetoric, but because they have no chance to voice anything in opposition to it.

When the master is unwilling to change its action, the dog will eventually bite the master if treated unfairly. The progress China has shown over the last 6 months has been GREAT! Please continue and eventually you will see first hand why we as Westerners fight so hard for our rights a well as yours.

I am glad you enjoyed the teaching of one of our great leaders and thinkers. As you know, he is responsible for many of the ideals you are currently working towards.

TO Learn something:

Maybe it surprises you, there are actually people here reading The Federalists. Not as many as I'd like to see but, quite a bunch, among 1.5 billion people.
The point is, everything is easily said than done. You dont force a population to learn what you want them to learn, even if it's something you deem to be self-explainatory or truism. At an intelligible everyone "understand" what you are saying, however, there's not much you can do if they dont empathy with you at the "belief" level.
You cant rush history. I wish I could.
The history of this nation will be written with none other than the cumulated daily trivialities of its own people. I cant change that. Neither did Franklin's remarks shade off any years from your democracy (or republic?)'s over two hungred years of evolution.

___
"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security".
I loved it the instant I read it. But are you talking about the Patriotic Act or the domestic eavesdropping law?
Let's learn together. We are all but part of the history. Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow... let's strut and fret no more.

As our own Ben Franklin once stated,

“Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement, and success have no meaning.”

“He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else”

And the most important one… Try to understand things now….

“Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”

Don't be too optimistic about the power of American people. We have seen that before the Iraq war. Alright, you made a big noise against the war. That's it. You have no power to stop your imperialism government from committing war crimes, and from stealing your own rights.

If there is any policy shift regarding China, it will not come from grass root Americans. It will be the big big boss counting all the beads in his pocket. Americans have no power of that sort, although every 4 years they have chance to make a voice on who is the least disliked candidate for president.

TO I hope you are proud:

Dude, go out and see the world, if you are young enough. Lol. That's about the only thing I CAN say to you.
I thought I could reason with you. You disappoint me.
BTW, the only reason I can post here is because I know your language and something about your country and culture. You dont post on my "Government" website because you are totally ignorant of my country, let alone its language and culture. Dont float any hubris over your ignorance, and pls, stop pretending you know anything about what you just said. Everyone in the world can view these posts. They will be disappointed of your "Standard".
Also, when is the Post a government branch?
Bye dude. It's been a complete waste of my precious RMB time.

Oh brother...

I suggest you improve your English, your knowledge of economics, and adjust your self regard.

You're embarassing yourself.

As for me, it's time to get back to work begging for American generosity.

How do you think those same 400m people came out from their hovels and into slightly larger ghettos? Because of American generosity and our corporate greed structure. But keep in mind that those same people answer to their families at home and would willingly remove their business from your country if we, the American people as well as the other Western nations, pushed for it.

What debt China owns is pittance in comparison to what we generate globally every single day. All this is well in excess of even what you think you hold over us.

I have no love of GITMO either and admit our system is not perfect, but so far it has proved to be the most open and successful system of governance this world has ever seen.

Thanks for correcting an already grammatically correct sentence. I hope you understand it better, as well as my position on your human rights situation against your own people.

Even I am pissed about my own governments Patriot Act that essentially removed a lot of our civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism, but the difference between you and me is the fact that you see no problem with people being beaten and killed for peacefully demonstrating against the government. You have no problem with the fact that Han Chinese citizens walk hundreds of miles to find out if they can get their land back, only to be chastised and turned away without a chance to voice their arguments. You fight for the “people” which is fine. But you fight for the wrong causes. Stop spending your time fighting me online and spend it fighting for your basic rights!

Your comparison, though on the surface sounding good, is like comparing apples to oranges. You cannot, and as such have no valid point without me sitting around all night refuting your points line by line by line. Which, unlike you, I don’t have time to do.

Thank you though for your last post. It was much better and much more cohesive in terms of thoughts and argument. Keep up the good work!

If you had an uncensored media you won't be this uninformed.

There's a story floating around, that a homeless man approached a Chinese fellow in the center of a major US city to start a conversation. He said "Your government should free the Tibetan people." The Chinese was a little puzzled by the encounter, and responded "I think Tibetans' lives are better than yours. What your government have done for you? Look, you don't even have your own roof." The homeless man looks very confused.

So you keep a better watch on your own human rights. It may not be as good as what you think.

About 400 million people in China have been brought out of abject poverty in last 25 years. That's an accomplishment unparrelleled in human history.

Human rights progresses in lock step with economic development. Every country follows the same path. What you accuse China of is partially true and lamentable but in context, it is part of the growing pains of a developing economy. The growing pains of Western colonialism was far worse.

I also suggest that you fix Guantanomo Bay and other secret prisons before pointing fingers at beatings, kidnappings, unreported deaths, and detentions in China. Maybe you should let a few Chinese journalists to teach them about freedom of the press?

As for my English ability, I know it sucks - I'm learning.

But for a native speaker, this paragraph is just atrocious:

"But as such they, as well as all other factions of Chinese citizens not at the top of the food chain, deserve a voice. Your current regime and constant policing of your citizenry do not allow that luxury without a price. That price usually consists of losing ones land, or being arrested, or being beaten within an inch of your life in an effort to “reeducate”, or even publically unreported death. "

Let me correct it for you:

"But as such they, as well as many other groups of Chinese citizens not at the top of the power structure, deserve a voice. Your current regime suppresses that voice with beatings, arrests, violent "re-education", and even death - which of course go unreported."

I think it reads much better.

Why are you arguing about borders with me? I am not for an independent Tibet. As far as I am concerned they are Chinese.

But as such they, as well as all other factions of Chinese citizens not at the top of the food chain, deserve a voice. Your current regime and constant policing of your citizenry do not allow that luxury without a price. That price usually consists of losing ones land, or being arrested, or being beaten within an inch of your life in an effort to “reeducate”, or even publically unreported death.

If you feel you are sacrificing yourself because it requires compassion to understand the need for basic human rights, you are a very very sad human being that totally undervalues the meaning of life and ones right to live in peace without fear of being controlled by ones government.

If everyone is of the same mind in China, why not prove it and begin uncensored media coverage all over your country like we do? What do you have to fear other than the world hearing first hand the things you already say are true? The only reason to keep out the international cameras is because you DO have something to hide and do not want it leaking out onto pirated internet connections and snuck out under coats of sympathetic media reporters who have a hot story to share with the world.

As for me learning Chinese… Why? Am I posting my comments on a Chinese website? No.

You chose to come here and post on an English website. So learn it better before trying to make a point and engaging in arguments with native English speakers and writers. Or at the very least hire an American educated Chinese translator instead of using Google Translator from the comfort of your Beijing Apartment.

I want to learn from your example.

Either open your borders so that everyone can enjoy the land you stole (this will actually solve the Darfur problem) or give up America back to the natives.

Without sacrifice on your part, I ain't doing mine.

Now learn some Chinese to educate me properly.

So you choose not to learn from our mistakes? Do you see us doing that still? Have you not learned from our own Civil rights movement and our civil war itself?

Why reinvent the wheel? Just because you want to act like a spoiled 3 year old to make a point? Thats real smart.

That brings me back to my other point of LEARNING ENGLISH WELL ENOUGH TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR AUDIENCE.

So what China should do is follow the Western model.

1) Kill most of the natives
2) Stick the survivors in squalid concentration camps
3) Make movies about what a tragedy it's been.

Pass the popcorn

Look for this article on:

www dot globalresearch dot ca

Risky Geopolitical Game: Washington Plays ‘Tibet Roulette’ with China
- by F. William Engdahl - 2008-04-10

This is a very insightful article on the current affair of Tibet, backed by comprehensive references.

Haven’t you gotten the point we have no interest in fake news?

Go post it on a Chinese website where people are more apt to actually agree with your view of what’s right and what’s wrong in dealing with your own citizens.

Check out this video clip on Youtube:

XhG9-LdwG_k

You will never see it on your TV channels.

BRAMBLES:
“Sometimes You (and the western) are not understood well here.”
------------------------------
Uh O. You messed up. Where is “Here” ? Bejing? LOL
Sorry buddy, the only people in China with access to this site are folks that work for the Chinese Government or Military.
And here is the thing, why are you even posting on our American sites? Seriously. Do you see us posting on your Chinese Government Sites? No.
Though I can’t stop you, you must realize that every post you make is causing more harm to the worlds public image of China. In particular, the same community of people that is the very reason for China’s rise in power in the first place. Every time you try to plaster your Communistic rhetoric onto Western Media boards, you are becoming your own countries worst enemy every day. Eventually those same nice people that took an interest in China will no longer, and you may find yourself replaced. I believe if you know your history of your own country well enough, it has happened to you in the past. Not because we don’t believe in the ability of the Chinese people, but rather the world is not ready to lower their standards just because an oppressive regime like China says so.

@Jack,

... to continue the thought...

Over time, many Tibetans will assimilate into China as they realise that's the only game in town. Many don't and will eak out a living on the fringes with myriad social problems like illiteracy, alcholism, broken homes, suicide etc.

By then, the Liberal Chinese Communist Party (LCCP), which has just won an election taking over from the Nationalist Chinese Communist party (NCCP), will send in social workers as part of its revamped poverty alleviation campaign. These social workers will travel to US Indian reservations and visit Australian aboriginies to gather data on what programs work and what do not. Not much seems to work but it's a great photo-op.

At that time, the hottest movie in China (and overseas) will be "Dances with Tibetans" starring the heart-throb Yao Yuan (great-great-grandson of Yao Ming). This is a tragically beautiful tale of a Beida graduate (with great pectoral muscles) sent by the old CCP to administer Tibet. He falls in love will a beautiful Tibetan maiden who shows him the meaning of spirituality. But alas, it will be lost in time.

At the Shanghai premier, teenage girls swoon as Yao Yuan walks the carpet with his lovely co-star Tsering Thubten.

As Yao Yuan accepts his best actor statuette, he condemns the human rights abuses of the rising Indian superpower who are brutally subjugating the peaceful citizens of Kashmir.

What most of the people do here is ridicule themself by showing nothing but complete ignorance.
Oh forgive me, a correction: not just ignorance, it's ignorance + arrogance.
Maybe it's not time for a real conversation. Nor is it necessary at this level.
Talk to us in 10 - 20 years and find your complacence then.

Brambles fm Beijing, China

@Jack

To secure the western border.

I think if you scratch deep enough, that is the reason China is in Tibet. Securing resources is kind of a wash considering the cost of administering a recalcitrant population. Very few Han Chinese want to live permanently in Tibet so "lebensraum" isn't really it either.

China is in Tibet for the same reason Israel in in the West Bank. It does not feel secure without a buffer. It's realpolitic.

Now guarantee China that the US has no intentions of ever building an airforce base on the Tibetan plateau and they might consider more autonomy for Tibet. But history makes no guarantees and a power vacuum will always be filled.

@AIDSMONKEY

"They have. There are large populations of Tibetan professionals in Chengdu, Chongqing, and Beijing as well as other Chinese cities."

Then, why was the invasion needed at all? It seems implicit that they would have emigrated into China regardless.

Jack,
"Tibetans would have naturally migrated into Chinese lands to seek opportunities in these last 50 years."

They have. There are large populations of Tibetan professionals in Chengdu, Chongqing, and Beijing as well as other Chinese cities.

But of course, you would rather think of them as cute little monks living spiritually in Shangri-la ... or being shackled to walls.

@HS

I'm not excusing the crimes of the Manifest Destiny or Continental Expansionism, but saying that utilitarian progress has its costs. There is no excuse of the abhorrent crimes done to them. And I'm aware of China's mass investments in Tibet in recent decades, but it's simply hubris on anyone's part to assume complete progress is being made and what is done is best for them. There are very few who would speak confidently of Chinese progress and policy in Tibet now, let alone how it will look in 50 years.

Honestly speaking, we're not talking about a cultural difference, but more of a moral difference. It comes down to comparing the deaths and displacement of a people, continued cultural erosion, continued discrimination, and intermittent conflict to billions spent in reconstruction, human capital invested for modernization, and cultural assimilation.

However, if the ideas of progress and modernization are powerful magnets, then Tibetans would have naturally migrated into Chinese lands to seek opportunities in these last 50 years. Even North Koreans, on threat of death and with barriers placed in their own country and out of it, risk life and limb to migrate into China for opportunities themselves.

TO: I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD

Real conversation is only possible by mutual understanding. When there's difference in mind the best thing to do is to acknowledge, accept and move on. Or there would be no point in talking further. Sometimes You (and the western) are not understood well here. Is that surprising? Sometimes We (the Chinese people) are not understood by You.
Well, it seems to me that the next relevant question is: do you think there's a need for "MUTUAL" understanding? Or that it would totally suffice if WE understood You?
Yes we are in many ways students because in so many more ways You and Your Way of Civilization are way ahead of us. But as we are appropriately on the receiver end of the constructive criticism, there should be room for US to analyze and digest and there will be. Sometimes we'd even fight you and your criticism. Be not surprised and easily offended. Because that's also what we learned from you: independent and critical thinking.
SO let's talk. Only that let's talk substance.

Have you not asked people to stop posting things embarrassing to the Superpower?

BTW, Call me "Pro Chinese Regime posters" is laughable. I was among the protesters in Beijing 1989. Came here with a willing ear to hear intelligent constructive criticism on my government. I was completely disappointed, what I hear here is actually helping prove the point that the west is anti-China.

See the point? Your propaganda machine is quite smart to fool Americans, but they are quite dumb to fool the Chinese. Our propaganda machine is quite dumb to fool anyone, in that sense you have a better propaganda machine. Congratulations.

Do you understand the meaning of reading comprehension?

You are right. Now I don't think I understand you.

"If you don’t learn to accept change by constructive criticisms ........ way to Greatness."

So you want to help us?

"Why fight the Chinese when we can simply isolate them again?"

So you want to screw us?

Apparently you are pretty mad and confused at this moment. "Save face" or "Save Butt", it is entirely your own business. I don't want to second guess where your madness truly comes from. It's TAX time, everyone is a little bit on the edge. So just take a bottle of your favorite drink and cool down.

“If I understood correctly you are basically saying: Just because US is a super power, her dark side should not be mentioned even though US media and government are on the offensive with distorted facts and abusive reports.”
------------------------------------------

I think you missed the point. Much like the rest of the Chinese. So no, you do not “understand” us correctly.

Also, when was the last time the US Media didn’t offer multiple points of view on things? If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be creating dialogue about issues. Can you say the same thing about Chinese Media? No, I didn’t think so… But perhaps your understanding of “free speech” doesn’t include the provisions that the “WHEN and WHERE and HOW” is up to the individual.

Obviously EVERY SINGLE SOURCE of publically accepted media has come from OUTSIDE OF CHINA. For good or bad, all large countries accept this criticism as part of GROWTH. But not China? Why not? If you don’t learn to accept change by constructive criticisms and support your people’s ability to truly live without oppression to promote global growth, your country will be replaced by others that are more than willing to take some bruises along their way to Greatness. No pain no gain. Haven’t you ever learned that lesson?

Why fight the Chinese when we can simply isolate them again? (Who do you think even brought you this far? Yourselves?!? LOL) But it seems you Pro Chinese Regime posters find it far better to continue to drive that wedge of misunderstanding deeper in your quest to “Save Face”. What will you do when we begin replacing the Yen with some other currency?

Do yourself, and your government a favor and stop posting on American boards. Your comments are only harming your countries image further. If the Chinese government Reps are reading these posts, I would highly suggest sitting your countrymen down and having a chat with them as I am sure there is a reason your Leaders have hired Western Media Consultants. Start with your Bloggers and posters on Washington DC Websites who will obviously taint anyone against China in general just by reading. This will effectively not be good for you as you well know. Don’t “save face”, “Save your butts” I think would be more appropriate at this point.

I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD:

If I understood correctly you are basically saying: Just because US is a super power, her dark side should not be mentioned even though US media and government are on the offensive with distorted facts and abusive reports.

Being in US for over ten years I know American people (classmates, professors, colleagues, neighbors, etc) as really nice individuals. Frank, humorous, intelligent, always willing to help others. Unfortunately, come to international politics they are almost fully inline with the position of the media and government.

I came to US from China with the believe that western media is the golden standard for factual and unbiased newsmanship. To my surprise, I found that is true only to the realm of domestic affairs. As far as report on China is concerned I can hardly make the connection between what I hear from the news and my 30 years of experience in China.

Now I realize I was a bit naive. The media objectivity does not come from thin air. It is the supervision from the viewers that forced them to be objective. For the same reason, since there is not a force of viewer supervision on China new report, they are free to say anything they want (or the government want).

The anti-China news wave is on the high tide these days. It is like in the wartime against an enemy state. I am really concerned that maybe someday American people will be misled to a real war with China, just like the way they were misled to the war in Iraq. Your hearts and minds have been prepared with over ten years of anti-China propaganda, so the task for the com