Comments (139)

Posted on May 7, 2008 03:13

@lucidus:

If a nation can be said to be based on ethnic group, then China has been one for a very long time. "Chinese" are not all Hans (Han is like the term for "TRUE/REAL Chinese").

BUT, 92% of all Chinese call themselves HAN, including many descendants of Mongols, Manchus, etc. If you want language unity, 81% of all Chinese, or 88% of all Hans, speak Mandarin as their first language at home.

Within the Hans, there is no discernible division - they are one ethnic group, with almost one language, as the numbers show.

It seems quite a natural nation-state to me, even though I only lived there for one year. BTW, the above was my name there; I am American.

Having seen their dollar reserves almost cut in half by the sinking value of the dollar I would not be surprized if they nationalized foreign assets after the olympics.

@justsomelaowai:
I think what CJ means in "China is a civilization pretending to be a country." is that China is not a "nation states" in the sense as traditionally defined by modern European countries.Most Chinese identify themselves first as Chinese, then as whatever ethnic groups they are in ,while it is usually the other way around in European "nation state" in which ethnics border define national border. "Identifying as Chinese" means accepting the Chinese value system, which includes two major points: incrementalism(which avoids radical revolution)and concept of universality( which translates to internal unification politically). Thus the recent confrontation between China and west is more like clash in value system.

Chinese ultra-nationalists today remind me of pre-1945 Japanese nationalists. Both thought their country was a rising power & thought the West was trying to contain that power. Both looked down upon foreigners, including other Asians (Yes, Chinese do consider Tibetans to be foreign barbarians no matter what their propaganda says). Both can become violent when faced w/ critics of their regimes/empires. Both thought their country is the center of Asia & even the world. Both thought their country had a manifest destiny to be major power & critics were either lying or just jealous. And both thought their empire was a benevolent ruler in their colonies (Korea & Taiwan to Japan; Tibet & E. Turkestan to China), while either ignorant or lying about atrocities committed in those colonies. Japan's militant nationalists were defeated in WWII. Let's hope China's ultra-nationlists don't lead us down the path of war.

Wow, there's a great big "didn't think of that" lurking around in this article.

Westerners tend to rather blithely assume that anyone who is against an anti-Western government is for them, that anything that comes after the CCP would inevitably be better.

What unnerves people, including me, is that the underground national sentiment in China is not pro-Western, pro-engagement, or pro-responsible stakeholder, but even more radical, even more confrontational that the government we're currently dealing with.

Like many people I know, I was fervently opposed to the Chinese Government BEFORE I went to China. The difference between the CCP and the nationalist nutters that are clogging up the internet is that the CCP, at least, knows that what its peddling is crap. Talk to anyone you meet on the street, and its like taking a time warp back to the 19th century.

@CJ: "To paraphrase Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, "China is a civilization pretending to be a country." For any potential critics, I've been living in China for 4 years, earned a master's from Beijing University, and speak Mandarin (Putonghua) fluently. I'm also an American."

This is what I don't get: if the Chinese try to form a nation, then they are called "chauvinists" and "racists" (how DARE they teach Chinese to Uyghur and Tibetan children)!--and if they don't, then they are ridiculed as a "culture pretending to be a country." My credentials don't match up with CJ's, as I only studied ancient Chinese history at UCLA many years ago, and my knowledge of the Chinese language is very limited, so perhaps a Chinese or a "China-expert" can help me out here. BTW, I'm an American too, who wishes the Chinese only the best in building their nation.

Nationalism is a form of national loyalty where people speak with one voice. No other view is tolerated.

German nationalism resulted In WWII.
Did any German dare to speak out against Hitler?

See what happened to Hu Jia, Grace Wang, and others.

NO people on this planet will be against their government if the government can lead a 30 years long double digit economical growth. Even if the government had a bad history, but which country's government has no bad history? As long as the government is doing almost right thing currently, people will forgive the past.

@Taste of DC:
"
The funny thing is that while the Chinese blogging on our boards have no power to effect change in their communities… The American people typically blogging on the Washington Posts website typically are the same ones that create policies and CAN effect GLOBAL change with a couple hours work.
"

Some Chinese people comment on this board because this board is in English. The chinese community mostly speak and blog in chinese. Unless you know the language you won't be able to see if those comments/blogs are also world-changing. (Of course, that also depends on the size of the WORLD one perceives, and the knowledge of the person who draw the conclusion)

stop fanning:
You points are taken. But Please note that Chinese don't go day after day bashing US government and pressing US troops to withdraw from Iraq immediately. So if US don't act like world police that believe it holds higher moral ground than other countries, you won't see those comments here.

Having a debate between pro-Chinese and anti-Chinese is like having a debate between Muslims and Christians.

Noone is able to convert the other.

The funny thing is that while the Chinese blogging on our boards have no power to effect change in their communities… The American people typically blogging on the Washington Posts website typically are the same ones that create policies and CAN effect GLOBAL change with a couple hours work.

Do you think you are hurting or helping your fellow countrymen at this point by continuing to post the same things over and over and over again? Even your own Government has decided to respond in a positive way towards the west… Perhaps you didn’t get the memo.

Well said, Bubba. And I think that's the main point many Chinese have been trying to make all along. So perhaps it's time to tell your fellow Americans to get off their high horses and stop pointing fingers at others for doing the same thing. After all, as you said, nationalism (and many other things) "is human nature (and) we all do it".

I seldom read such discussion. To me, it is almost meaningless. 80% of the people who have negative statements about China have never been to China at all. They know very little from CNN or BBC, which was distorted already. The Chinese people here have been in US for many years and most of them obtained US Master or Ph.D. degrees. They have been living here for many years and they can see both sides at least. I believe this group of people know China and USA better than most Americans here. How many Americans have master or Ph.D. degrees obtained from China? How long have you guys been there? Do you know the history of Tibet? Since you do not agree Tibet is a part of China, what Country issued the visa for you to enter Tibet? What county issued the passport for Tibetan? USA? Why a third-party cares too much about other people's business? Do you want to experience the violence in Tibet by yourself? Do those innocent people died in Chicago a week ago have any human rights? Were those gangs expressing their angry about your so-proud of society? Do your own businee! Americans are not angels of peace from the haven. Most of the time they raise the flag of human rights or democracy with their bombs on their back!!! That's history.

ANTI-BIGOTRY:
If you take my comment as begin defensive so be it. I was only making a point that you expect to be treated by Americans on American blogs as your fellow Chinese treat you on your Chinese boards…

If I went onto a Chinese site and began blogging in total opposition to the masses day after day, don’t you think I would have already had a death threat or two by now? Has that happened to you yet for blogging your opinions here? Has your family been arrested? Your livelihood threatened? I don’t think so.

Take note of the difference and you tell me what society is more barbaric and in need of an attitude adjustment.

@ Grammar police:

I totally agree with you on that "History is always narrated by someone".
But are you saying there's no fact, but narration of history by SOMEONE?
I happen to disagree.

In "fact", I didnt say Mr. Pomfret is completely ignoring facts but that he could do much better if he pays more attention to the substantiation of "facts", because he's now read by many of my people besides Americans. A typical Chinese reading his blog would react to the mistakes by a sigh and smile: these westerns indeed know nothing but China.

An example:
Mr. Pomfret said in an earlier article that Hu (the president of PRC) comes to power in "2001".
That's plainly wrong. Dont you think that's "FACTUALLY" wrong?
Many readers including me have pointed that out days ago. Mr. Pomfret never corrected the error.
So, to the point I m trying to get across, a typical Chinese reader would be amused and his "bias" toward "western media" would be strengthed.

I dont want to see that. I m not getting paid to do this.

Do you know what are you saying, dear author? You have used your value to replace others',just like USA using its thinking way to replace other countries'. From your words, we can see that you are favor yourself very much, you think you know everything, and what you think always is right,just in your mind. THE USA is playing an important role in the world ,because he is the WORLD POLICE. However, this is NOT what other countries want. Where is other countries' freedom?

Brambles, you and others would do well to use "observation" in place of "fact." By saying 'fact' you are precluding anyone else from access to the truth. History is always narrated by someone, and that someone casts themselves into it, affecting it. When you narrate history, you voice yourself as well.

Mr. Pomfret,

I know you wrote a book on China issues. Compared to most of your readers you know China much much better.
But as a POST correspondent writing a blog affiliated with the POST, I reiterate, you are expected to hold a much higher standard than typical Internet bloggers.
You should at least be a little bit more professional in organizing and substantiating the facts referenced in your article before jumping to conclusions.

A small suggestion: would you please at least acknowledge the many egregious mistakes (factual) in the 4 -5 articles you publish so far and make some corrections?
So many readers have pointed them out for you and you didnt seem to care about the twist of facts.

Again, it's the POST's credibility at stake here. Not just yours.

How much would an ordinary Chinese expect from "western medias", now that a famed correspondent from the well respected POST would so blatantly ignore even basic facts regarding China and then so blithely put forward "theories" that many of us found so "impossible"?

Please do some homework first. I hope one day you could be a real China expert.

Watching people posting here is sometimes amusing but most of the times agonizing.
I dont know the mutual rejection would affect our lives how much but it wont be in a good way. But that's stupid, in that the antagonism is not even remotely justified and it does nothing besides exhausting resources that could've been used for sth with real value.

I didnt give a damn about the Chinese government's bid for the Olympics. I thought it amounts to nothing but an empty gesture of showing good faces. Now I totally support the event.

If the expected 1.5 million tourists to China this summer wont make a change, I'd say China should host more, bigger international events.

Anyone here with doubts to our postings here, you are welcome to China.

Come and See. That's the only thing we can communicate to you.

Reasonning alone is futile. I thought I was old enough to understand that.

COME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

I spent part of my youth in Asia but now live in the US. I went to PRC twice in the 1980's before Tiananmen. I recall seeing far more nationalism and pride at that time in Japan than anywhere else in Asia. This was of course when Japan was the great economic fear with their electronics and cars.

When I lived in South America in the 90's several Peruvians tried to persuade me, with great passion and pride, that Coca-Cola was invented in Lima. Last summer in Johannesburg a few South Africans, beaming with confidence, tried to convince me South Africa invented the idea of the national park.

In order for a people to succeed they need a history. I think most are prone to revising theirs to seem a bit rosier. Perhaps this is an effort to persuade themselves their future will too: American, Chinese, Japanese, Peruvian... I think this is human nature. We all do it.

Hey Bubba, you see how defensive STOP FANNING is getting there? "It's OUR (AMERICAN) message board. Stop posting opinions against ours..."

BTW, to answer your question, STOP FANNING, of why so many Chinese immigrate here. They come here for the same reason that 99.9% of all immigrants come here: money. People go where the money is and that's the number one priority. I know you'd rather see them only letting in immigrants holding the same ideology as yours, (and perhaps even the same skin tone as yours?), but then it would make the American claim of tolerance and diversity a total hypocricy, wouldn't it?

To Bubba: the bitter tones of many of the anti-China posters here also verifies the point of the Chinese, don't ya' think? And you should see how defensive many Americans get when they hear foreigners criticizing the US gov't.

To KT: it seems that your mind has already been made up, but I just want to point out one example. You mentioned that 1959 was a long time ago and thus CIA's intentions back then is irrelevant. Yet you are fascinated by the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, one of which happened prior to 1959, the other > 30 years ago. China is a whole different world today from those days, just like the US now is totally different from its segregation years. I think this example is a nice little illustration of the double standards employed by many China-criticizers and so despised by most Chinese.

The funny thing is every single son or daughter of an immigrant Chinese that I have ever met have all viewed their own parents as the ones with the overbearing sense of Chinese pride. And their parents were their primary influence growing up.

But as they all tell me; the more their parents imposed the Chinese thinking onto them, the more they felt closed off from the rest of society. The more they experienced our culture, the more they embraced it. Not because we were evil, but because it finally gave them a chance to be individuals.

Now if our culture, media, world actions and overall sense of what’s proper in this world is so bad, why do you even immigrate here? Why do you go to our Universities? Why do you work here? Why do you stay here? Why Why Why?

We understand the Chinese culture to save “face” above doing the right thing, but come on. This is getting retarded. If you can’t manage to understand our intentions when we post things online on AMERICAN boards, other than trying to interfere with your country, you shouldn’t even be trying to reason with us since it makes you come off sounding just like the PLA days of old.

As such, especially in DC where people make and break entire countries within a span of 10-20 years (including China), you should think twice before continuing to fan the flames due to ignorance of the vast differences in the way we view partnerships in business.

Yes our business comes with conditions. That being that you adhere to the same decency standards as the rest of the major nations on earth.

But I suppose this is all a foregone conclusion at this point now that your government has been imposing tougher restrictions on standards in your country. With enforced standards comes the lesson of earning respect and learning how to properly balance the costs of a nation. Soon it will be more costly to do business in China because of the added assurances in which case we will simply move on to another in hopes that China’s leadership continues to better the nation as a whole and is able to sustain itself properly into the 22nd century (unlike the last 1000 years).

While you’re at it, would you feed North Korea for the world since you seem so in tune with that region? I think Americans giving attitudes are quickly waning….Especially since they like to paint over the flags on the bags of rice.

I'm an average people from a small town in China. what I felt is our living standard has improved much during the past 20 years although we still have much weakness in our system. It's imporssible to lead 1.3 billlion people to rich life overnight.

No, u don't speak for 1.3 billion people.

Are u an English-speaking Chinese posting from behind that Great Firewall of China?

It's so pity that so many chinese clearify the truth,but still many others can't believe . It's so ridiculous that they prefer trusting Daliar to trusting 1.3 billion people. their intention is so apparent.So I think it's no need to argue it any more with those fools

who surpressed minorities? China?
it's a pity that the westerner r fooled by their media,it's not the faults of foreigners,but the media.
I knew our government built the first railway for us,give us many priorities,including the opportunities for education, they invest much for our ecomomic development. our military saved many tibetan who r injured and hurt by Daliars group.Daliar is a truly liar.

Seems to me that the Chinese will eventually have to take a look at whats happening right in front of them at home--they certainly have their fill of problems like any other country, unless they happen to like inflation, and large amounts of farmland being taken over for their urban growth, pollution of the worst unchecked kind, and the ever growing division between poor and rich. HOWEVER, we can talk about these things freely in the U.S; I would not feel free to criticize in China, I would certainly feel and BE threatened. The Chinese government is still a dictatorship, just now they happen to embracing the money while suppressing the individual.
I lived in Asia, I have some experience with the culture, and I really thought Bejing was an extremely poor choice for the Olympics. But since its there, I would still root for just about any other countries' athletes to beat the Chinese on their home turf, not unlike the 1936 Olympics in Nazi Germany.

What I feel this time is the westerns are really poor salesman --

They sale the 'human right'; And, they humiliate the customer when the customer don't want buy, or thinking to buy

Therefore, I think Chinese people now don't buy that anymore. That stuff definition changes from time to time, place to place.

The customer is gone. Sorry.

All the defensively toned comments by reportedly Chinese posters kind of proves this column right, eh?

You are wrong in saying that Chinese Nationalism threatens Beijing. Since you know Chinese history, you should know that it is Chinese nationalism that propels China to its present achievements, not threatens it to collapse. I hope you understand. On the contrary, it is the provocation by the anti-China axis of evil that threatens the foundation of the Western political system of democracy, freedom,rule of law, human rights and law and order turning those lofty ideals into symbols of imperialism, prejudices, torture, untruths, inhuman practices, any qualities of goon and thug, even after 2000 years of immersion in Christian religion of love and forgiving.

whatever other conclusions we draw from these comments, I think we can safely assume that no one knows what happened in Nanjing in 1988.

This is a nice article and very interesting to read for me, as a Chinese. I just want to comment on a few things the author may want to check.

1) There was not a women involved in 1987 event and I have not seen anything saying about a woman in the protests. There was some Chinese students got beaten up and the criminals, some offspring of African official was let go without charges, which angers many Students. This is not the kind of racism we experienced here in the US, where lynching and noose was the norm.

2) The so called "hotheads" you mentioned are not really as hot as you described. Yes, many of the students never demonstrated before, but none of them, tens of thousands all over the world, has involved in any kind of violent or uncivil activity.

3) The reason many Chinese Americans got involved in protesting the biased coverage is because almost all of us experience racism first hand. (If you do not believe it, just check this thread and you will find many racism charged comments). The wide spread racism against Asian/Chinese in this country has never been addressed seriously. This effectively pushed many Chinese to the side of the Chinese government.

4) In China, people hold very positive view of American people, and will not forget the help we get from Americans in WWII.

Nationalism and patriotism are basically the same thing, only one word is viewed negatively, the other positively. In essence we need to view what the substance of nationalism is (ethnic vs. civic) and whether it is oriented for or against something (constructive or destructive). Nationalist behavior is always about group (or mob) behavior because the individual subjugates him or herself to the nation. Sometimes this can help build a good country, in other cases it can also lead to blind following. Hitler was a master, but others today use nationalism/patriotism to make war, suppress minorities or opposition, etc.

Nationalism and patriotism is basically the same thing, only one word is viewed negatively, the other positively. In essence we need to view what the substance of nationalism is (ethnic vs. civic) and whether it is oriented for or against something (constructive or destructive). Nationalist behavior is always about group (or mob) behavior because the individual subjugates him or herself to the nation. Sometimes this can help build a good country, in other cases it can also lead to blind following. Hitler was a master, but others today use nationalism/patriotism to make war, suppress minorities or opposition, etc.

I,m afraid that you maybe have some misconcept about the issue you referred to Nanjing in 1988.

Some african students tried to bring several prostitutes into their domitory, however, they wered stoped by campus guard cus it is not permitable. maybe it is also forbiden to bring prostitutes in US campus? i don't know. and these african students kicked the guard and threaten him with knives, and then chinese students witnessing surroud them and ask police to get rid of it. Unfortunately, the police did not punish those african students, and then what you see happend.

plz tell a whole story, do not play biased report,just like CNN

@KT

I'm curious as to how your reach the conclusion as to how ABCs would be against the CCP. For me, it appears that the large majority of ABCs, both young and old, don't really outright state their opinion, especially on politics. Because of the diversity of the ABC community, which includes those born in the US, and those that emigrated from the Mainland, HK, Taiwan, and Singapore.

I see no conflict in that I view myself as an American of Chinese descent, but apparently with emotions high, there seem to be some Chinese that are simply hurling a more nationally charged version of calling others "bananas".

This is the one of the worst misleading articles I have ever read in a while.

We name our conducts as "Patriotism" while lable everyone else "Militant nationalism".

Get over yourself. What goes around, comes around.

runsinghappy wrote:
"hey,kt
automomy doesn't mean independent."

Isn't that obvious? I'll paste in what I wrote before.

...what do you have against the Dalai Lama? His stated position is that he is willing to settle for autonomy rather than go all out for independence. He supports the Beijing Olympics and opposes calls for boycotts. He tries to restrain the young militants who want to march into Tibet. This is a reasonable guy that you can negotiate with.

And with that, goodnight.

You out of context, ignoring history! Without any significance, is no more than meet your Yiyin!

jian wang:"_KT_, do you know how many years had China been existing before "ABC, BBC , CNN" foundation……
your logic is really ridiculous."

Sorry, but I think you have me confused with someone else. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ann Lau, nice post. If you are Chinese, you are a true patriot for trying to improve her country.

(Sorry, I forgot to type in my name the first time I posted.)

hey,kt
automomy doesn't mean independent. every thing has its degree and limit, if the border has been exceeded,the essence will be changed. Tibet people has more priorities compared with other people 55 minorities. and tibetan call for unity. Much work our centre gov has been done for developing this remote areas. I persuade u to know the painful tibeten history.if u read them ,u will know the truth. don't tell me u want to be fooled

Hi Anti-Bigotry,

Nice talking with you. Now to address your post:

"The excerpt from Pomfret's story is clearly sarcastic and patronizing. A quick perusal of his other articles suggests that's his writing style. Do you not know anything about writing skills?"

You are proving Pomfret's point. This is what he means by "thin-skinned." Hang out in the blogosphere long enough and you'll get used to it. In a few months, you won't even notice anymore. You may not realize it, but the tone he adopts helps in his effort to diffuse Americans' disgust toward Chinese protesters and to ask for more understanding and tolerance.

"...yet nobody in the US is even remotely upset by all the anything-but-peaceful shows put up by anti-China groups against the Olympic torch in recent weeks?"

Personally, even though I think China should give Tibet autonomy, I think messing with the Olympic torch or its carrier is really gauche. I live in the US. If there are others out there, give me a shout-out. Of course, I think arresting someone for having a picture of a religious leader on the wall is much, much worse.

"Next, you really don't know about CIA's special interest in Tibet? Who do you think funded and trained Dalai's "clique" for their 1959 "uprising"?"

1959 was a long time ago. China and the US do massive business together now. The Cold War is over, and China isn't even really communist anymore, anyway. I suspect that the CIA's focus in China is more on trying to figure out what the CCP's regional strategic and military plans are and on who they're selling weapons to. They are undoubtedly trying to stop Chinese spies in the US. Tibet, I suspect, is not high on their list of priorities. If you think about it, it is in the US's best interest strategically for China to remain stable, even if that means that Beijing continues to control people like the Tibetans and Uighurs. The CIA is all about realpolitik. These days, the CIA has bigger fish to fry in the Middle-East.

"As for Bush, who do you think awarded Dalai his medal (or some sort of civilian honor) last year at the White House? Tibet and Dalai is one of the biggest political cards played against China by the west."

For Bush, it's a card that costs nothing to play. The US government response is probably the weakest in the West. Anyway, what do you have against the Dalai Lama? His stated position is that he is willing to settle for autonomy rather than go all out for independence. He supports the Beijing Olympics and opposes calls for boycotts. He tries to restrain the young militants who want to march into Tibet. This is a reasonable guy that you can negotiate with.

"A lot of the things you cite against CCP and China are those from two generations ago."

I brought up the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in response to your comment "Also, for your information, Japan recovered economically after WWII because the US dumped a gazillion tons of aid on them. South Korea built up its economy during a military dictatorship in the 1960's and 70's (way before it had any meaningful democracy)." Both Chinese events occurred after the beginning of Japan's phenomenal rise in the world, so it's not so long ago, in this context. This came up because people were boasting about the current rate of economic growth in China. I responded that the growth rate seems large because the baseline was so low. Concerning economic growth since the end of WWII and the Korean War, the CCP has little to boast of compared to Japan and South Korea. The CCP is not the great savior of the Chinese people. On the contrary, the current economic growth comes from the CCP getting out of the way of regular Chinese.

"I don't know who gave you the authority to decide what the proper subject is here,"

The same people who gave the CCP the authority to decide how Tibetans should practice their religion. No one gave me that authority. I just took it. :-) Do you feel put upon over this little thing? Imagine how Tibetans feel.

"...but it's not Tibet per se. The original Pomfret article is about nationalism in China."

True enough, but nationalism in China in reference to the current debate about Tibet.

"Incidentally, they deleted one of my earlier critical comments regarding Pomfret, even though they tolerated many postings calling other posters commie agents."

Try again.

"Speaking of which, KT, why are you so sensitve about the term "Dalai Clique"?"

I am not sensitive about it at all. I am honored that anyone would associate me, someone whose sacrifice for Tibetan freedom consists of posting comments to a blog, with him. But the term "Dalai Clique," along with the old, "Capitalist Roaders" and "Running Dogs of Imperialism," are inextricably linked to party apparatchiks, i.e. "communist shills," because no one else uses them. To Western ears, they are really funny. Maybe you didn't understand this, but this is the context in which I used "communist shills." I never used it to describe those who disagree with me, just those who use ridiculous-sounding terms like, "Dalai Clique."

I dont't think those examples u refer to have any relation to this topic. who can say their country has no corruption? why pick so many negative examples ,why don't u put many more positive examples here? because all u heard of r those negative aspects.Chinese people clearly know the situations and many flaws in our system, it needs to be improved,and it is improving,no need u to interfere. Our country has made a great progress comparing with the past 20 years. u dare to say ur country has no negative aspects?Why u find those excuse for interferent us. It's none of ur business. imagine 1.3 billion people come to ur land,can u feed then all?

I'm not a nationalist, i'm working in a German company, so i usually come here to improve my reading ability. but i found so many US people here know little about China and Chinese.

_KT_, do you know how many years had China been existing before "ABC, BBC , CNN" foundation……
your logic is really ridiculous.

MARTIN is the one who really know Chinese very well.
Chinese people very much respect their central Gov.and are fully convinced that the central Gov. are working hardly for the whole country(which can be proven by the life level improving during past 20 years)

Corruption usually happens in current Chinese society, but that happens between the central Gov. and common people. it happens in the mid-level administration organization, we also hate it very much.

In fact we thought that you are protesting the whole Chinese people when you protest our central Gov.

Chinese people are very charitable and virtuous, both to our central Gov. and you(people outside China). We are willing to give more time to our Gov. to lead us to a better life and give you more time to understand Chinese well.

We are now fostering 1/4 population of the whole world and the whole world are living under the same sky.

Chinse culture is really wonderful, we welcome you come to China and know more about this country and then give your comments here.

Echoing the Voice of the Voiceless
By Ann Lau
When Empress Dowager paid indemnity to the eight nations, the U.S. used it for the first Chinese students to study abroad.
When Sun Yat Sen came to the U.S. as a fugitive, the U.S. opened her arms.
When China was invaded by Imperial Japan, the U.S. sent in the Flying Tigers.
When China put up the bamboo curtain, the Chinese risked the shark infected sea to escape to Hong Kong and then to the west.
When the Dalai Lama called Mao as his Big Brother, it was not enough; religion is the opium of the people.
With Communism, the Chinese suffered the greatest famine in the history of mankind.
Again, the west welcomed those refugees.
When China was facing economic collapse, it was those Chinese who left China who first went back to establish commerce.
When China needed investments, the IMF came to its aid.
With Capitalism, corruption went rampant and the Chinese floating migrants became second class citizens in their own cities.
With a billion people, China has great potential; why is their government afraid of them?
Tell me why blind legal expert Chen Guangcheng was sentenced to jail when he helped villagers to file class action against forced abortion and sterilization?
Tell me why Wu Lihong, a farmer who became an environmentalist, was sentenced to jail when he tried to save Lake Tai?
Tell me why farmer Jiang Jinzhu called on outside China to help when his land and mushroom farm was illegally torn down?
Tell me why Hu Jia was sentenced to three and half years in jail when he wrote an article on the internet?
Tell me why attorney Teng Biao was kidnapped when he tried to help Hu Jia?
Tell me why Baixing's editor-in-chief, Huang Liangtian was fired when he reported too many stories on corruption and official land grabs?
Tell me why Zeng Jinyan is in house arrest with her baby when she only blogged on the environment and AIDS?
Tell me why the petitioners in Beijing crowd around the western press and beg them to listen to their stories?
With their own fellow citizens unjustly treated, where is the outrage?
Tell me what top Chinese intellectuals said in their open letter on the Olympics and why they send their letter to the west?
Tell me what top Chinese intellectuals said in their open letter on the Tibet issue and why they send their letter to the west?
Why do Chinese in China call on the west to highlight their injustice?
Why do Chinese in China want the western press to report on their grievances?
Why do Chinese in China even went in front of the U.S. embassy to bring attention to their plights?
Could it be that their own government is not listening?
The west can turn a blind eye and close their ears to those Chinese people who pleaded for their help just as their own government have done.
There is little the west can do except to merely echo the voice of the voiceless.
If we even refuse to do that, then what kind of people are we?

but u should think it first: what caused this patriotism in China？what provocated Chinese people? What is the initiator? if u'r offended by other's offensive words and smeared intentionally, u will feel happy? more important, the truth has been completely distorted and unreal,what's ur reaction?if u didn't have ur freedom to show anger,what's the "human right"?

When we were the Sick Man of Asia, We were called The Yellow Peril.
When we are billed to be the next Superpower, we are called The Threat.
When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.
When we embrace Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.
When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, Free Tibet
you screamed, It Was an Invasion!
When tried Communism, you hated us for being Communist.
When we embrace Capitalism, you hate us for being Capitalist.
When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights.
When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts.
When we build our industries, you call us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming.
When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide.
When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law.
When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights.
When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.
When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobics.
Why do you hate us so much, we asked.
No, you answered, we don't hate you.
We don't hate you either, But, do you understand us?
Of course we do, you said,We have AFP, CNN and BBC's...
What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer... Because you only get so many chances.
Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for This One World.
We want One World, One Dream, and Peace on Earth.
This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

Duo-Liang Lin, Ph. D
Professor Emeritus of Physics,
University at Buffalo, State University of New York, Buffalo, New York 14260-1500
Email: LLIN@buffalo.edu

I never felt more frightened then what happened after September 11, 2001. The American flags, the lapel pins, and the "Us Versus Them" mentality. The patriotic fervor of Americans scared me more than Osama bin Laden. Patriotism leads to irrational and emotional responses to certain challenges. Fellow countrymen believe in violent and drastic reactions to any threat to the Republic. As an American and one who celebrates dissent, I found the post 9/11 atmosphere more dictatorial in America.

I see the same thing in China and Tibet today. I hate the fact the ethnicity and national heritage divides people. How can you hate someone based on nationality or ethnicity? I don't understand the vitriol. The ugly patriotism and anti-West hate displayed by Chinese pro-government sympathizers is disturbing. But isn't ALL displays of patriotism truly disgusting? Whether you are American, Chinese, or Tibetan...your demonstration of patriotism divides humanity more than brings harmony. Standing behind a flag just makes you more blind to reality.

If it we didn't have nation-states and if we didn't have religion...the world would be a better place. Enough said.

No evidents,no rights talking.
if u haven't been to China ,of course what u r saying are pointless,in other words-----rubbish. Media's duty is to report the truth without much comments.That's all. of course every one have its freedom of showing his opinions,but u all should know one thing: there's no absolute "freedom", so control ur mouth,and be resiponsible to every word u speak out to the public.

In my opinion,it's all about China's interior affairs. and much misunderstandings r coming from the different cultures,ideologies and systems. No system is perfect,so it's no need to compare ours to others. Tolerant the difference,and carry forward the good facts.Mabye it's the right time to let the world know this country---- China.

I never said our media wasn’t slanted…. But we have access to all sorts of views on things, its those that choose not to research like you that cause a lot of misunderstandings.

For the leaders of America based in DC (Washington Post’s hometown FYI) we actually do speak out against slanted news. Much like we speak out about your slanted news. I choose not to bother saying anything about our media when I am addressing your issues because I am not trying to make a point about MY media… But maybe my point would be about YOURS. See my point? Its YOUR JOB to point out our faults which you have done, but you seem to like to pop up all the time and keep on shooting your mouth off. Yes you can do what you want, but at some point you have to think…. What is so wrong in your life that you feel the need to blog on a papers website half-way around the world night after night to spew the same crap? Do you feel like you are going to affect change in the greater Western world? Even you can’t be that retarded….. So I guess it’s just because you have some aggression issues.

My fighting words? LOL Why would we bother getting into physical confrontation when instead, businesses would invest in cheap labor in another part of the world? That would effectively shut down your government and your people will starve unintentionally… Are you aware of what’s happening in N Korea right now? Had they spent the money on better things instead of trying to put the “cart before the horse” and invest in technology instead of social progress, they wouldn’t be in near as bad a shape as they are. That was my point if applied to China… If you stand all alone again. Nothing more. In the mean time, some other 3rd word nation would be abused by our big businesses around the globe…. Unfortunately.

It’s not because we want that to happen, but the world can only put up with so much crap from an amateur country with a big mouth. Even we as America couldn’t stop Anti-China sentiments that expansive around the globe.