Comments (201)

Footnote to my comment below: Ethics means mutual morality. (in case westerners haven't learnt it from Christ or Dalai Lama.)

If I were a westerner and were sincere to help, below would be what I would say to Beijing (assumming honesty of western media, but it is edvident by now that they are not honest, including editting Nepali pictures and even scenes from movies into reports of so-called “Chinese police violence in Tibet”. However, for the sake of analysis, let’s assume relative honesty of western media at this momment):

“We westerners have committed so many crimes: slavery trading, global colonization, genocides, cultural genocides, Nazism…. you name it, we did it, and we have not even been punished yet. But we feel very bad about it, and things have not turned out good according to the law of Karma. Racial tensions, family failures, morality crisis… Even the word “white” sounds like a bad word now (at least in USA), morally we have already been being punished, our conscience tortures us….. So, if you, China, is doing or even just thinking anything remotely similar to what we have done, please do not do it.”

That way, China has no choice but at least listens. This is the only truthful, sincere, and mostly importantly, the only effective way of doing it. By the way, what did Christ say to the mod when they were about to stone that poor woman? The west must confess sincerily in heart and in action first. This is the universal ABCs of ethics. So westerners don’t even know that? A murderer protesting at someone else for his not respecting life, a rapist protesting at someone else for his not respecting women, will that someone else respect the opinions of the unconvicted, unpunished murderer? Rapist? This behavior can generate nothing but mutual contempts at best.

As it is clear, westerners feel OK to protest as the murderer and the rapist described above, un-enlightened, un-embarrassed, un-convicted, un-punished. What does this phenonmenon reveal? It reveals: under the surface righteousness, westerners are still of the same arrogance (we are now “good people” since we are not doing slave trading any more, we therefore can criticise you, after all we are still better than you…), and the stubborn self-centeredness, in other words, the same illness of the heart that once made westerners white colonists and slave owners and still at this very moment war profiteers, and this is what hypocrisy means in a more fundamental sense if not a more hopeless sense.

Such simple basic ABCs of ethics, do we really need to “explain” it to westerners here? Is not the west supposed to be more “developed”? Where are the west's culture or wisdom?

And besides, protesting is a very lame form of culture. Oganized rudness and yelling are still rudness and yelling. Should any people of intelligence really believe yelling at someone’s face will make a difference for the better? There is something called “communication” in human culture which takes sincerity and patience. But as it is edvendent now, westerners know only two things: going to war and going to protest. Impatience, if not Stupidity, this is what I call it.

Hawaii is an independent Kingdom, until it was annexed by US. The Queen of Hawaii was forced to sign to surrender to US with US army gun pointed at the Queen head. It is illegal invasion to make Hawaii a military base for US army. The same happen to Guam. FREE HAWAII.

If you really want to change China, stop buying American and British made crap products. US and British products are expensive and not worth the money. Buy more Chinese made products, cheap and good, make the Chinese rich, and they will love democracy after that. Don't believe me my foreign devil friends ? Try it out. If you like Xichang (Tibet) so much, buy Xichange products as well, it is made in China, because Xichang is in China.

US support British colonisation of Nothern Irelend. We want the British to stop killing and hanging of IRA soldiers without trial. US only support so called human rights in countries that are regarded as enemy or competitor of US, such as China, Russia, German, Iran, Venezuela, etc. But US never support human rights in countries that are regarded as friends (which actually are puppet states) such as British, France, Spain, Saudi Arabia, Israel etc. British brutally tortured and killed many Irish young males and females, Isreal killed many Arabs, Saudi Arabia is a corrupt Anarchi Kingdom, but you never see US say a word (of course you never see this John Promfret said a word about British or Israel human rights abuses, he just pretend it never happened). We hope China can support us.

Nationalism and especially ethnic-nationalism (nationalism based upon race and blood) is a rather archaic, often racist, and clearly reactionary form of political thought. When one thinks about ethnic-nationalism, one can't help but think about Nazi Germany and more recently the brutal war that split up what was the former Yugoslavia.

Therefore, it is rather ironic and shocking to see so many in the West under the banner of liberalism advocating for Tibetan nationalism, cheering and fanning the flame for ethnic separation rather than for universal human rights in China as a whole.

Nationalism by its very nature is irrational and tribal. It's about separation of human beings, it's about arbitrary divisions, and it's about selective historic memories. Thus, as far as this author's opinion is concerned, less is better.

So I urge anyone who fancies himself/herself as a progressive or a liberal to think twice before jumping on the "Free Tibet" bandwagon. What exactly are you championing for? Are you championing for further division of people based upon ethnicity and racial lines?(i.e. only when we all live in ethnically and racially "pure" countries, can we have peace and justice.) Or are you championing for more human rights? If that is in fact the case, then say that, say "I am for more human rights for all Chinese citizens-that includes all ethnicities in that country: Hans, Mongols, Koreans, Huis, Tibetans..." After all, if the British and the Spanish are given the opportunity to work out their national crisis with respect to their restless ethnic minorities in Northern Ireland and the Basque Region without the hysterical and juvenile "Free Northern Ireland" and "Free Basque" bumper stickers, why isn't the Chinese being accorded with the same courtesy?

Ah, but you say, China has an undemocratic government. But let's think logically for a moment; does the fact that a country has an undemocratic government at a particular moment in its history somehow justify the rest of the world getting on a particularly high horse and in a rather ironic way, using that supposedly moral high ground to fan and promote ethnic divisions within that country to break it into little pieces? I think not.

Ah, but you further argue, look at how the Chinese government has send in so many soldiers into Tibet, with GUNS!! Yes, I hate soldiers, guns, and nationalism just as much as the next liberal. But in a world where the notion of a nation and nationhood still exists, would the national government of any other nation react any differently if people from one of its provinces decided to unilaterally declare independence or go on a riot in support of one? Therefore, should we in the West impose a double standard on the Chinese nation because we find their current form of government not to our liking. Isn't that just a tad bit hypocritical?

Return the Falklands to Argentina!
Oops, that's for London 2012.

Might Is Right!

The answer to all gonernments' bully action toward the others is simple:" we came, we saw, we conquored. What Are you going to do auou it!"

To think that we ar civilized, be real!

Dear Dalai Lama,
if u truly love your people in and out of Tibet,
please make the ultimate sacrifice.

Declare yourself as the last Dalai Lama, i.e. no more reincarnation.

Though there is no more living Buddha after u have passed, Tibetans will still continue to pray to u, just as Christians continue to pray to Jesus.

For this sacrifice, China would reciprocate by confering permanent "One Country, Two systems" status to Tibet, and limit the no. of non-Tibetan settlers.

First of all, that Amerikan yes-puppet Iraq president has to go, and let the Iraqies elect their own president.

Give Iraqies the right to maintain law and order in Iraq.

Having Amerikan solders swarming all over Iraq, just smacks of occupied territory.

First of all, that Commie yes-puppet Tibet governor has to go, and let the Tibetans elect their own governor.

Give Tibetans the right to maintain law and order in Tibet.

Having Chinese solders swarming all over Tibet, just smacks of occupied territory.

Politicians, Lobbiests, Pundits, Tree Huggers, Chicken-hawks ...

I thank you for your concern over the human rights situation in Tibet as one part of China. However after seeing the protests towards the torch relays, and the treatment China side has been getting from your MSM, we have come to a conclusion that both sides have reached the end of the dicussion. It's painful in the short term but helpful in the long term to have our romantic feelings and views towards the West crashed by your medias and people in the past 2 weeks, I have to thank you for that too.

So at this point there's really not much to talk about, the only thing I can say is that China has vital national interests in Tibet, that 1.3 billion Chinese will never give it up, it has absolutely nothing to do with ideologcial frames, sorry.

And we dont think Dalai Lama can be trusted before he segregate himself with TYC and denounce 3.14 rioters in public. I know it'd be hard for him do that, sorry.

I acknowledge there are problems in Tibet, if things can work out under OUR terms, good for everybody, if not, too bad. If the world claims we are cracking down on them harshly then we will crack down on them harshly and never look back. If somebody has to give, it's better them than us, sorry.

So if you want to come for the olympic thing, you will be welcome as dear friends. If you want to boycott and continue to protest, be as it may. We cant afford to care one way or the other, sorry.

peace out.

So what u saying? thoese tibetans had a reason to beat, kill and loot? they had a reason to burn 5 defenseless girls to death? of course, so did those terrorists hit the twin-tower. I didnt know anybody were interested to investigate what happened to them in their earlier lives.

I appreciate the posting of some of the Chinese here and their willingness to see if there is another side to the story of Tibet, other than that of Beijing's. Unfortunately, what the current ethno-centric demonstrations by Chinese in China and in the West is doing is only deepening the feeling among the "minorities" that China=Han. Just look at the postings on the websites or the people who demonstrates.

Both the Chinese students in the United States as well as those in China who demonstrate against Tibet seem to have similar slogans despite saying they are not organized.

Yes, there are two sides to every issue and if our Chinese friends can start learning that we can begin the process of mutual understanding in earnest.

Till today, the views of the majority of the Chinese are shaped by CCTV and Xinhua reportage on what happened on March 14 with the implication that Tibetans started the violence. Only an investigation will show who started it. More importantly, the demonstrations began four days earlier than March 14 and they were peaceful. Our Chinese friends may do well to ponder over why the Chinese media does not talk about those.

Gentlemen:

It is extraordinary hypocrisy on your website, you could speak loudly around the world about the China human rights violation, but you do not see, or you do not want to see the USA human rights violation, the shameless, brutal, animal cruelty of the United States government, and it is everywhere in the your country, not in China. For example, the extraordinary tragedy is in progress right now, the Federal Government of the United States of America is killing the innocent man: silently and secretly, and, if you could see, the so called the Law of the Land does not work, and the Court is a part of system of persecution.

Please note that such case is absolutely impassible in the China: even in China is a normal person that set allegation first, at least explain the reason for action, but in the USA government can kill everybody silently, secretly, without any explanation.

It is the United States government, and you as usually would keep the grave silence, the world greatest hypocrisy.

The up to date story on the website:

http://www.mykolalyssenko.net

Thank you very much for your attention.

On one side, it's alarming to see Tibetan's disapproval of Chinese rules in Tibet, even though we Chinese kept thinking of our "generosity" towards the Tibetans. And it's not only the exiled Tibetans outside Tibet, but also Tibetans in "Tibet", so it's really an awakening call for us that something is wrong, no doubt about it and no need to deny either.

On the other hand, is the charge by Dalai Lama and others (exiled Tibetans and western media) of cultural genocide that really frustrates me. Comparatively speaking, China is really one of the very few country that tries to preserve the cultures of its minorities. Please don't wipe my stmt as ignorant yet. If you looked at Uigurs in Russia, Okinawans in Japan, Chinese in Indonesia, most have their names changed to suit local flavors. But minorities in China maintained their own names.

For Uigurs and Tibetans, they actually learn Mandarin in high school or college. The schooling system maintains their local languages as the main language. Maybe that's actually a bad thing, since many Uigurs and Tibetans now complain they can't find good jobs since they can't speak Mandarin well, it's similar to foriegners in the U.S. entitle to only disk washing because they can't speak English. Yes, something needs to be changed for this, but to what direction? More or less Mandarin?

Han Chinese in urban area are entitled to one kid per couple, 2 in the country side if the 1st one is a girl. But 3 for Tibetans! More for some small minorities. It's a way for cultural preservation. No wonder the Han Chinese are frustrated with their "generosity". I remember a "Too" man, a small minority in Hunan once "proudly" told me he could not be executed, even if he murdered someone else, because he's a minority.

Tibetans can enter university with lower scores from national exams. The Chinese gov't set up "cultural" universities in Tibet just to preserve Tibetans' culture.

No doubt when Chinese are accused of cultural genocide, they are confused. Maybe we should have "assimilated" the minorities in the 1st place and we will not have this accusation upon us now?

Certainly there are way to go in terms of more religious freedom and I'm not denying that.

As to why the Chinese are not talking to Dalai? I thought they did for 6 rounds already. And sound like the Chinese felt cheated when Dalai sent delegation to meeting on one hand and kept his accusation of China on the other. Worst, the exiled Tibetans seem to be demanding the area more than the "proper" Tibet to be under their automonous control, they actually in "real" control of "proper" Tibet for a very short of time in they eyes of the Chinese, not to say the area of Gansu, Sichuan and so on. Do you think the Chinese will give in? Unrealistic goal is impossible goal.

I went to a Tibetan's village in western Sichuan 2 years ago. There was a influx of tourists and the owner of the coaches we were riding actually was a ethnic Tibetans, I could tell he's pretty contented with his business. I also happened to pass by a Tibetan's new house, the owner actually gave us a warm welcome and he seemed content also. So I guess these are 2 sides stories, many Tibetans who remained in Tibetans are kids of former serfs, some are happy with progress and some are not when they are out of luck in the progress of development, due to insufficient education etc, similar to situation to every other country. The exiled Tibetans are a different story, they are displaced when many of their ancestors were high monks and serf owners, today they are really no one but refugees.

I do hope western media when accusing Chinese of news blockage also remember their own action of selective news coverage. Their recent action actually brought Chinese of different orientations together, that probably is not their initial goal. Please do reporting in true perspectives. Chinese actually do not trust their own news that much, now they found out they can not trust anyone.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but protests can never hurt me.

"For those so igorant to think they are perfect and every other country has to obey their advice,"

This is another fallacy common in these discussions. That someone disagrees with you doesn't imply that they think they're perfect, nor does voicing criticism amount to ordering other countries to obey.

TO SUJO:
>>See, this brings back to my original point, the mere Mention of Tibet, gets all these folks jumping up and down. Whats up with that? I did not say anything about the status of Tibet, just mentioned it.. And that was enough to get "Karma" worked up!! (END OF QUOTE)

That's actually easy. Either there's something terribly wrong with more than 1 billion of us, which is apparently the answer to you, or there's something that you DONT UNDERSTAND A BIT.

I wouldnt name any wrongs on either side. Neither you nor us are WRONG. We have a difference of opinion. When there's a difference of opinion, like, when you argue with your GF/BF, do you always scream "what's wrong with you?"? Does she/he yell back the same words everytime you do that?
Why you keep thinking you are always right? Why?

Pls, dont tell me the answer. I m just saying you are saying nothing. There's no fast cure for a difference of an opinion, especially when it comes to beliefs, religious or not. The Chinese has a thing for national unity. You dont have to understand. I would want to summarize it as a historical issue but it still is too complicated for anyone outside of this nation. Accept it as a fact, if not a quirk of us, cause there's nothing you/we can do about it.

For that matter, I totally support the true autonomy of Tibetans, the preservation of their culture, including their distinctive language and religion. That's their inalienable right under the law. And I support the policy that gives preferential treatment to the improvement of the Tibetans' welfare. Just dont talk to me about independence. Even Dalai would do that. He claims for true autonomy under the current constitutional framework. Believe it or not, most educated Chinese would want the same. There are unfortunately other fenetic nationalistic elements among us but I doubt they'd have any influence on the policy in question. They need time to discern and distinguish the independence leaning riots from the real issue here: Tibetan grievances.
Anyone talking about independence, pls take a Tibet history 101 first. Or you'd be humiliating your majesty self.

"And why is it that every time China's criticisms are brought to light, someone shovels up what the West did 150 years ago, or even what Japan did to China 60 years ago? Yes, those atrocities and crimes are horrible, but are you trying to justify current repression with past repression? That somehow China is fully in the right, because it was wronged before?"

Very simple: west has a tracking record of doing things wrong and horrible. For those so igorant to think they are perfect and every other country has to obey their advice, this just shows that you need need to have better education before jioning the discussion; otherwise, no one is going to you seriously, except, of course, by the same igorant people as you.

Mark Twain II:

The Olympic games should always be in the United States, Great Britain, France or Japan, as these are the only nations having impeccable human rights records,

WOW!! Dubya is that you?

Free Tibet:
It's ironic that majority if not all barbaric Han Chinese think they liberated Tibet from the Daila from the barbaric Han's "standard". Let's me ask the Han Chinese this way, what do you think if the CIA rid of Hu Jintao and free you guy from his dictatorship according to the Western standard of democracy?
What you want them (Tibet) to have is not what they want to have? Respect for other culture's differences. Remember, when you push the kindest dogs to the corner, they will come out and bite you, no matter how nice the dogs are. They don't need your money and they don't need your fake freedom either. Get out of Tibet!

Funny isnt that the reason US invaded Iraq? to liberate iraqis from a tyranny, to save them from a backwards civilization?(those were the reasons after the WMD claim, the biggest lie in human history fell through...) Get out of Iraq before you come here shouting.

"And why is it that every time China's criticisms are brought to light, someone shovels up what the West did 150 years ago, or even what Japan did to China 60 years ago? Yes, those atrocities and crimes are horrible, but are you trying to justify current repression with past repression? That somehow China is fully in the right, because it was wronged before?"

Because the West have never officially apologized for it, and compensated for it, so there's no closure brought, untill then, you have no rights to judge anybody else.
Besides, you continue to do it even now, see iraq. how many iragis died? 100K? that's not genocide? if you can blame China for what's happening in Darfur, how can excuse US for what's happening in Iraq?

To that SOJO Indian guy, you claimed:

You can go to All parts of Unites States. No one says a reporter cannot go to Vermont. You can go to all parts of England, India, for Gods sake even Sri Lanka which has a bloody insurgency going on.

Really? I m very concerned about the human rights abusement in Guantanamo bay camp, can we send our reporter to go in there take a look?

Tibet will never become a country, unless you start to nuke all chinese cities one by one. Olympics will take place, and finishes, like all other stupid parties. Nothing, I mean there is absolutely nothing the Lamas or western media do, could make a difference.

The only thing they could change, is how ordinary chinese people think of tibetans and western media in general. by Chinese people I mean 1.4 billion men and women, 25% of the human race, more than all the white people and tibetans combined in this planet, who are able to hate, able to kill. so think carefully before you take further actions. There're a lot of chinese people like me, who dont give a f**k about tibet and olympics. Do not make us do ......

Boo hoo.. Treat China with Kid-gloves, else we will end up pushing them back!!

Why is the whole world supposed to accommodate this arrogant attitude? Grow up!! All these guys are towing the Chinese Government line!! nothing else. The message seems to be "we will do what we want, you guys need to accept it and be nice to us" . Too bad, it does not work that way.

"Do not talk about Tibet, It is our internal matter"
Seems to be the only thing the CCP and the Chinese Government and the Chinese posters on this website seem to be able to come up with. Is there a distinction between these three entities?

One of the guys "Karma :" even tried to "warn" me!!

"If I were you, I would be very extremely careful in exercising "freedom of speech" on international issues especially when the people and government of a foreign country are involved."

I have no interest in Tibet, but have a huge problem with this attitude where there are things that are just not supposed to be talked about just because a someone says so!

Freedom of speech means freedom of speech, without any restriction. I am not in your country, I can say what I want. You have the right to disagree,but you cannot tell me what to say and what not to!! When will you guys understand this concept.

I am sick and tired of hearing the same line again and again.. "Don't talk about Tibet, if you do this it will push China back and no progress can be made" .

So in effect these folks are saying "It is my way or the highway". They are using scare tactics, arm twisting and every thing available to just force people to agree with them.Arm twisting, secrecy , scare tactics, under handedness, well enough of it.

See, this brings back to my original point, the mere Mention of Tibet, gets all these folks jumping up and down. Whats up with that? I did not say anything about the status of Tibet, just mentioned it.. And that was enough to get "Karma" worked up!!

Ditto to any Chinese person I speak to.. What do you call this attitude??

To: LUKE – THE POWER OF FORGIVENESS

The sentiment of Han towards Tibetan’s past and present situation shows Han's racism. Such mentality is insensible and unbearable to any Tibetan, especially their younger generation educated in Western countries. So it deserves to be condemned.

But HK being colonized for 99 proved to be good and most HK people appreciated what British government brought to them. Look at India, how much British culture has been assimilated by Indian people who are, at least, very fluent and good at English language and more democratic than current China. So my point is that cultural assimilation, or even, colonization, can have very positive effects. It goes with the rationale in Tibet. The undeniable truth is: CCP gave the land to the serfs from the hands of nobles and the monks, CCP set up schools to teach serfs’ children how to read and write, CCP set up hospitals so that then sick Tibetans went to hospitals not temples for medical help. The list goes one and one…

I believe many Chinese including myself has a family history to tell on inhuman and brutal things CCP did to its people by using MOBS and RED GUARDS. But we forgave the CCP. WHY? Because we knew that such cruel and inhuman deeds were the results of idolization of MAO by its people, the ignorance and lack of education of the mass and manipulation of “GANG OF FOUR” who manipulated and wanted to get the power after the death of MAO. Back then MAO was THE GOD. Any one opposed him is EVIL. Isn’t that a familiar when comes to Dalai Lama as a living GOD? I heard so many Tibetans in NYC who told me that Dalai Lama is their GOD

We forgave CCP. We forgave Japan. We forgave Britain. Isn't that the COMPASSION Daila Lama is going to preach in the U.S? I remember that Esmond Tutu said in his book “The Power of Forgiveness”: Forgiveness is “I forfeiture the right to seek revenge from you which I am entitled to”. That is what Chinese people did towards our government: we forfeiture our right to seek revenge from our government because we are people of peace and humanity like people everywhere. Is that more powerful and solid than any words of any preachers?

Although China has its own human right issues, we are witnessing rapid changes and progress in the democratic and legislative development in the country. Since the foundation of the country half century ago, its people are bestowed the rights of free ally, freedom of speech and publication, and freedom of religion. As the number of educated and well-trained legal professionals and consulting firms growing, attorneys start using the weapon of constitution and legislations to defend their clients and pushing forward the legal evolution. In 2005, there were about 90,000 massive civic demonstrations and protests took place in China. The year 2003 was dabbed "the year of rights defense", as it saw more and more lawyers accusing the government of land seizure from the farmers, middle classes attending courts to protect their personal properties and consumers rights, parents fighting for equal education opportunities for their children, and pet lovers striving for the animal protection. That shows the quick awakening and awareness of human rights in Chinese, which just stepped out of the struggle for food and shelters three decades ago.

The transformation to free market started in 1979 has not only revitalized the country's economy, improved people's standard of living, but also opened the country and changed people's minds. West culture and ideas are adopted and localized so quickly. A great number of Chinese are studied, trained, or visited oversees, which grant them a chance to open their eyes to the rest of the world, to see how China is perceived by them, and what's the defects and deficiencies in their own system. All those are diversifying and reshaping people's values and thinking. Rival standards are competing with each other from underneath. It's important for the world to have a deep understanding of the changes, so that they will not only criticized and press on the Chinese government, but also constructively advise so that the open, rational, and peaceful values of the country will dominant.

The following truly shows how limited knowledge some people have about China and Chinese people. Limited knowledge leads to, most times, wrong conclusions.

“My knowledge of East Asian history is admittedly limited but as I recall, at the beginning of "China's humiliations" there actually was no China, only the Manchu Empire. And within this notoriously repressive political unit, Han Chinese were subjects of the Manchus in much the same way that the Tibetans, Uighurs and Hans are subjects of the CCP.”

Qing Dynasty is the last Dynasty in China. Indeed, the emperors were from Manchu. Before Manchu took power, they belonged to previous Chinese Dynasty and finally got separated. Manchu were studying Chinese culture for hundreds of years before they took power in China. After Manchu took power, Manchu kings chose to become Chinese by fully adopt/embrace the Chinese culture, fully aware of the inevitable result of Manchu race would finally disappear among Han Chinese people. Some Qing Dynasty kings became more Chinese than Han Chinese by further developing Chinese culture. The current reality is that Manchu people/race has mostly “disappeared” into Han Chinese.

We can even trace back further about 2000 years, Han Dynasty was fighting with Huns and great wall was built to prevent the invasion of Huns. Some people believe that this Hun is the same Hun as for “Attila the Hun”. The result of the war was that half of the Huns (northern part) went to west, most likely to become “Attila the Hun”. Other half of the Huns (southern part) merged with Han Chinese and become Han Chinese.

Han Chinese got the name from Han Dynasty. Thousands of years before Han Dynasty, however, there was no such Han Chinese identity. China was much like current Europe. Han Chinese back then lived in various different countries. Like US being a melting point, a unique Han Chinese identity appeared stronger later with even more merges. There is a lot of history behind this. All these merges are possible because people on this land are basically and most likely from the similar/same origins. This is why people say that there are currently 56 races in China but they all belong to Chinese family.

When American and European came to China, there were just too many differences. However, American values (freedom, liberty, democracy, science and technology) actually now took deep root among Chinese people, especially the young and educated Chinese people because it is proven to be the right way.

It is very interesting to know that some people think that more educated Chinese are difficult to talk to.

Some ancient Chinese emperor and some Chinese leader back in 1960s to 1970s also “discovered” the same thing. In order to control people, some Chinese emperor tried to give people less education. The 10 year “culture revolution” started from top in 1960s to 1970s was actually also partially to serve this purpose when colleges/universities were closed because it was considered from top that it is not necessary and it is only causing troubles due to people having just too many different ideas. Of course, this went no where and caused only damage and whole Chinese people now fully realized this.

In a democratic society, is it supposed to have different opinions? Can these young and educated Chinese have different opinions simply because they now have more knowledge about both East and West and they perceive things differently since they have a very different vantage point to know both East and West to a good extent?

To me, it is people from West that do not have good enough knowledge about East.

As a regular mid-west American it is good to hear the point of view of the "average" Chineese person. As an average American, I could care less about what China does about Tibet. Please don't take what our media says too seriously or hold it against the people of America. Most Americans have very little respect for our media and realize that see things the way they want to. We will fight to the death for freedom of speech, but most of our media is controlled by special interest so it must be taken with a grain of salt. I am very happy to hear the the oppressive policies of China are relaxing and that the normal citizens are experiencing increased freedoms. America's freedoms are a wonderful thing but sometimes people take thier rights to an extreme, just to prove that they can.

The vast majority of people are, saddly, stupid (this is a conclusion after interacting mostly with people who has a Ph.D. at least), and most of human beings are racists (that includes eveyone). It is in our genes. The debate can go on forever, and it will not solove anything. The current issue with China is just one of the millions we will face in the next few years. As for China, no one but only Chinese can change their country, and I beleive they are changing. For Americans and others, focus on your own issues, paying off your credit card bill, your mortgage, having a black friend, or gambling in an Indian casino, vote for Obarma when it counts.

I am a Chinese (born and raised in Taiwan), US educated and now living in Singapore.

The real strength of Chinese can only be found in CCP, who is the saviour (from who... make a guess..) to all the Chinese people (including the Chinese overseas who may not have realized it).

Travelled and stayed long term in Beijing over the last eight years, awed, humbled and respect greatly of my mother land. People are having a greatly improved quality of life(yes, better than most prosperous countries in Asia) and a very positive outlook.

Too much baseless negative comments from outsiders with ulterior motives. It is none of your business if you have not even a grade school level of knowledge about China. If you do not shut up, I would only regrad you as being a brainless racist, bigot neocon who is not aware that the days of western imperialism are over. Whatever, soon, whether you like it or not. It will be up to China to say if he wants to respect you as equal or not.

I believe that Western medias did not think about how their behaviors will be judged by normal Chinese people when they rushed in and broadcasted the "fake" news.

Western medias have equated China with Chinese government and did not even take a moment to think how normal Chinese people will think about "rushed in and fake news". They should since they care so much about human rights unless they actually do not mean it.

Also, Western medias did not think/realize that there are a lot of changes in China, changes to Chinese people, changes to Chinese government, changes to the overall society including the freedom and human rights Western media cared so much about.

When the riots (arsons, vandals, murders) happened and normal Chinese people (including Muslim Chinese) were being vandalized or killed, even before Chinese government took any actions, Western medias were already and immediately condemning a Chinese government bloody crack down. How do you think normal Chinese will react?

You may still think that China is behind iron curtain and no real information can go around in China. The reality is that the whole China society and Chinese people have moved on to a very different society and people but western media did not catch up.

Now, you can see that even the Chinese worldwide are having a different view, including the ones who really can not get along with current Chinese government. Does this mean anything?

Here again, some people again rush into some even less reasonable conclusions about even Chinese culture. It does not help.

In order to make right judgements, there need to be a lot of facts finding, including the most current facts. Rushing in to conclusions usually causes mistakes.

Tibet issue is not that simple and is related to a lot of history, including the whole Chinese history and how China/Chinese come into being. The outsiders think that Tibetans are a totally different people from Han Chinese. However, Tibetan languange is found to belong to the same language family of Han Chinese. Current DNA studies also indicated that Tibetans originated from the same people where Han Chinese originated from. Tibetans also moved into Tibet from other places and were consisted of various tribes that do not share same language. Rushing into the conclusion of Han Chinese simply took Tibet country in 1951 can not really convince ordinary Chinese people.

Chinese government is now taking a stronger stand against Western medias due to a lot of pressure from ordinary Chinese people. In this situation, more democracy and freedome in press in China will actually cause even harsher reactions, the opposite to what Western medias might think.

How ironic it will be then?

By the way, please let me know which word in Chinese that has the same meaning of Barbarian and Foreigner and under what condition it is be used. If I guess right, the people that word refers to have already become Han Chinese for thousands of years. How ironic?

My knowledge of East Asian history is admittedly limited but as I recall, at the beginning of "China's humiliations" there actually was no China, only the Manchu Empire. And within this notoriously repressive political unit, Han Chinese were subjects of the Manchus in much the same way that the Tibetans, Uighurs and Hans are subjects of the CCP.

For any Han Chinese who finds it unfathomable that Tibetans can seemingly be so ungrateful for not having been involved in their own development process, consider for a moment how irritating it would be if the British and the French started claiming that they had "liberated" China from the decadence and corruption of Manchuria and that this somehow made the unequal treaties not only permissible - but justified.

My knowledge of East Asian history is admittedly limited but as I recall, at the beginning of "China's humiliations" there actually was no China, only the Manchu Empire. And within this notoriously repressive political unit, Han Chinese were subjects of the Manchus in much the same way that the Tibetans, Uighurs and Hans are subjects of the CCP.

For any Han Chinese who find it unfathomable that Tibetans can seemingly be so ungrateful for not having been involved in their own development process, consider how irritating it would be if the British and the French started claiming that they had "liberated" China from the decadence and corruption of Manchuria and that this somehow made the unequal treaties not only permissible - but justified.

I think the damage to the Olympic game this year may have done already. It supposed to be a great opportunity to have China to better understand the world and to have the world better understand the China this coming August. Therefore I am 100% for the decision to award the Olympics game to Beijing.

Yes, most of the protestors from last couple weeks are well-intentioned to advance their cause for human rights in Tibet, Darfur, etc. Yes, the Chinese government has reacted badly to the international criticism by restricting the foreign journalists and censoring the news coverage. But after weeks of protests, especially the violent protests in London, Paris and San Francisco, I am afraid that we just pushed China 10 years backwards. I am a Chinese living in the west for the last twenty some years. I remember back in 2001, I was not particularly exited about the news that the Olympic game awarded to Beijing. But when I look back the past seven years, China changed a lo to, to the positive, both economically as well as in the aspect of the political freedom. I think the awarding Olympics to Beijing had its effect and I am very happy for China. Now I also noted that my compatriots in China are hugely proud of the Olympics and I think that they deserved a party like Olympics game after last twenty years achievement. But now the party is crashed, people in China are naturally angry. You can blame on the violent protestors or the Chinese government’s handling (although I don’t have first hand information, I believe firmly that the government and the police were very restrained on 3/14 and many Han and Hui Chinese’s lives were sacrificed unnecessary, the fact is that the restraints were not given any credits for in the western media). With the world condemning China, the Chinese government went back to the old methods and speaking a language that is more common back 10 years ago. This is sad.

Anything could have happened differently? I am afraid not. I believe that many historical events are inevitable. I think this time, the Chinese people are ready, but the Chinese government is not ready for the Olympics spot light. I remember that 1989 during the Tiananmen protests, I was young then and a huge supporter for the students and was thinking if that was not the time, when would the democracy come to China. There was also a historical event around the same time when a Soviet leader (Gorbachev) visiting China for the first time after more than 20 years. But he had to avoid the Tiananmen Square to avoid the demonstrators. A huge embarrassment for Deng Xiaoping. Everyone knows now what happened afterwards. But luckily, the government learned a lesson and focused on the economical development in China. Right now I am not optimistic about this year in China, including the Olympics game. But eventually, a new leader will come, may not be democratic elected yet, will learn what the world want from China and will make China a great country.

Hey, my Indian friend:

If I were you, I would be very extremely careful in exercising "freedom of speech" on international issues especially when the people and government of a foreign country are involved.

I have lived in the U.S. as long as you have. But I dared not exercise such privilege until now when I am 100% sure that the tones in its media reports regarding the Tibet riots were wrong and that the consequences such reports would inspur overnight outcry of Chinese worldwide. I am very SPECIFIC and very ACCURATE when I first sent my opposing letter to to CNN and Washington Post.

I am ok now because I saw the improvement after our voice was heard. So I moved forward and began to warn other Chinese the danger of the nationalism and to remind them the prejudice many Chinese including me had towards Tibetan people. I don't venture into the jurisdictional issue of Tibet nor presume Chinese government was right or wrong with its military presence in Tibet because the jurisditional issues belongs to the work of lawyers and the UN and the death rate of the people in Tibet is a process of fact-finding which will come into light sooner or later.

Whatever you said about China, Chinese people and Chinese government did not bother me. But I would not say anything about your people, your country and your government because I am neither an Indian nor an academic expert on India. I believe in what you told me about your country since there is no need for you to lie about your country, right?

On my part, I know the world, the people and events in the world are extremely complex, different and evolving. There is no such thing as simple as "black" and "white" in international disputes. So I conduct my life not per the rule of freedom of speech when politics is involved. Instead, I try my best to follow my cultural and family upbringings: Don’t say things you do not know.

Nationalism is bad, period. Chinese, Indian, American, whatever. Nothing wrong with patriotism, but join the 21st century, forget centuries-old resentments without modern significance, and start acting like adults here, not kids bragging about who has the coolest toy.

To "Karma:"

No one has attacked China. So there goes your argument. Second, why do I "jump in"? Because I have a concern for free speech, human rights , cultural values and diversity. These are values I grew up with and will support them no matter where I am. All of these are being trampled upon as we write. And no , other nations do not "think uniformly" to use your paraphrasing. There are times when a country is attacked , its citizens unite, but as i said, where is the attack?? There is a deeper issue here , and if you are smart, you will recognize it. Tibet or no Tibet there is a fundamental problem that exists.

If all is so well, why not allow foreign reporters uninterrupted in all parts of China? You know and I know it is not going to happen. No matter which way you try to spin this my friend, it looks BAD.

You can go to All parts of Unites States. No one says a reporter cannot go to Vermont. You can go to all parts of England, India, for Gods sake even Sri Lanka which has a bloody insurgency going on.

I am pretty sure there are only a handful of countries and only one the size of China which has restrictions like this. What does it have to HIDE? Or it is not sure if Tibet is fully colonized or not?

I agree with the Indian friend that Chinese thinks uniformly. But we do that only when we are attacked as a nation and as an individual by joint foreign forces. Same goes with you, the Tebet-exiles and any citizen of any other countries. Otherwise, why you suddenly jumped out since no one was talking about you?

I would strongly urge all the Chinese who claim that "Tibet was, is and will be part of China" to read the Wikipedia on Tibet. Tibet does not belong to any country but the people who live in Tibet. Chinese people indeed made Tibetan people feel bad because Chinese feel they are culturally and economically superior. However, those sentiments do not give Tibet exiles any right to represent Tibetan people in Tibet. It is ok for them to use a leverage for a contract negotiation. But using Olympics as the leverage is wrong. Tme will tell.

I have seen a lot of Chinese chest thumping about their great nation. Well guys, if you are so great , why do you need the Olympics to tell the world about your greatness? There's got to be something wrong with the culture where Barbarian and Foreigner have the same word. It shows an ignorance and understanding that others too are can be equal and better than you are.

No matter how loud your nationalistic voices grow the fact remains that China is short of original ideas. They imported Buddhism from India, communism from Russia/Europe and Capitalism from America and Europe. I see a nation (and off late a lot of its people), so short on self confidence that it needs all kinds of reassurances from everyone else. So sensitive, that every chinese person I met starts jumping around at the very mention of Tibet. How come so many people think exactly alike? And don't you think (if you can??) that it might have something to do with not having any original idea?

I am amazed at such similarity of thinking and such lack of originality.

I love the US even though it is not my birth place. I can appreciate their democracy, freedom, rights for free speech and even the second amendment. This country is full of original thinking and original ideas. They only can come from a free people who are free to think whatever they like. The very reason there are so many Chinese in the America is a testament to its openness and greatness.

I know you folks like to compare yourself to the US, that is a noble goal. What you forget however, that all your technology, comes from the US (and Europe). All your goods are sold to these countries. In fact the US is exporting all its inflation to your great nation, and your government is so scared of managing a real financial system that their only solution is to peg Yuan to the Dollar!

To "REASON"
Something about India: you comments about India not unexpectedly trashes my country for no reason. You will not be arrested for protesting or speaking your mind in India (and in most parts of the world)- it may not matter to you, but it does to us.That is why we are so different people and there cannot be a comparison. India has a long way to go in many areas-- hard infrastructure being the biggest, but in no way we would like to compare it with China. We know better than that. In India, one can create their own regional party and contest elections. You can even ask for a separate country without being killed! So before you start taking the higher road of trashing India, we know we are no competition to the Chinese dictatorship and their brutality. By writing India off as a non-entity, you show your ignorance. Yes we have many difference of opinions in India and sometimes it becomes un-manageable, but the solution is not to silence everyone else who disagrees with you. But then I can't expect a you to understand this point of view ? Can I?
And yes, whether you like it or not, we are your neighbors sooner or later you will start dealing with ordinary Indians (well you are encroaching and coming pretty close to us now that you have control over Tibet). Word of advice, dealing with the Indian government is not the same as dealing with India or Indians. We make that distinction unlike some of the Chinese posters here. So I would be very very careful taking the higher road on anything.

To quote the Great Helmsman (Mao): “Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy.” China will crack down on any and all who try to do anything at the sacred Olympics. The legitimacy of the regime, or lack thereof, is at stake.

Remember Strike Hard? That will look like the dinner party referenced in one of Mao’s other silly quotes. The big question will be, how much the west will kow tow to the thugs in Zhongnanhai? I would suspect much, and the CPC will do whatever they like.

Xiao

Have any of you read the book "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"? The oppression is the perfect soil to raise jingoism. Now we have Chinese jingoism v. Tibetan exile Jingoism, a very dangerous game. The victims will be the people, the ordinary Chinese and ordinary Tibetans inside and outside China.

Haven't we had enough of such victims around the globe?

The comments from jingoistic chinese bloggers here remind me of what I have read about Nazi Germany and how super nationalistic the rhetoric was then.

If China treates its minorities in the same way as the Nazis did, it may suffer the same fate.

I am disappointed that Chinese people seem to be so paranoid, nationalistic, jingoistic, self-righteous, and largely ignorant. Oh well.