Racheli in TA:
This is what I would like every one of you people who think we should just stop defending ourselves against the Palestinians. ...

The Washington Post has done it again. Instead of a balanced op/ed piece from someone who knows what they are talking about, they have hand-selected someone from the US who does not live here...
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Racheli,

This is what living in a state of constant war does to one; eventually you may find it hard to achieve any other state.

Nir wasn't proposing surrender, he was proposing peace. Yes, former enemies have made peace successfully in the past - France and Germany, Israel and Egypt. It's hard work; you have to get to understand the other's point of view, you have to make concessions. But most us who live in a country at peace with their neighbors think it is worth it.

But there is something more here. You're complaining that the Post let someone from the US state his opinions. Two things: 1) The world is interconnected - what Israel does affects the rest of the world. 2) The US is largely paying for your occupation and struggle with the Palestinians. We get to have opinions too.

Shalom, Insh'Allah

As an American Jew, with dozens of relatives living in the settlements, I have visited Israel more than 50 times since 1956. Let me provide some perspective.
1 - The issue of hatred goes both ways. Neither Israeli or Palestinian school books show the green line or clearly identify the other party.
2 - Hamas(and other Palestinians) spew hateful words about Israel and Jews. Attend shul in west bank settlements and you will hear words in Hebrew that make Hamas sound like a little kitten. Both sides need to knock it off.
3 - Terrorist is just another word for freedom fighter. It's pure hypocricy for Israel to claim that the Stern Gang and Irgun were acceptable freedom fighters when they blew up arab markets and civilians and killed British soldiers but Hamas is not. The world must abolish killing civilians as acceptable no matter what the cause.
4 - Gaza is still an open air prison - nothing goes in and out without Israel's permission. Palestinians cannot even collect their own taxes. Just witness the 7 Fullbright winners who were not allowed out to study abroad. Gaza has been a prison since 1967 and until that changes rockets will continue to fly toward the Negev. When Israel withdrew from Gaza, it kept a stranglehold on the Palestinian economy and dignity. Rockets flew before withdrawal and after and until a peace agreement is made there will be no change. Imagine if some occupying force was in Israel and said that Haifa could be free of troops but not the rest of Israel. Do you think Jews would be grateful and stop fighting?
5 - The settlements are a cancer that will kill a two state solution, if they have not already. The settlers have a plan and they are implementing it. I've heard Kadima politicians give talks in settlement towns to the effect that ultimately the Palestinians will be given autonomous "reservations" just like the American Indians. If it was good enough for the USA, it's good enough for Israel.

This is not a diatribe against Israel. I am a firm believer in Israel as a Jewish homeland. But if Israel ever wants peace it MUST do a LOT more than it seems willing to do. G-d has cast the Jews out of Israel many times over the past few thousand years, Israel should remember that when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians fairly.

This is what I would like every one of you people who think we should just stop defending ourselves against the Palestinians. Go to Youtube. Type in Hamas. Go look at videos of what they teach ALL Palestinians children in Aza. Go read translations of speeches given in mosques by "moderate" Palestinians on MEMRI's website. Go see videos posted on HonestReporting.com's website. Then come back and be sure to tell me why in the world we should not have separation fences, borders and an army.

The Washington Post has done it again. Instead of a balanced op/ed piece from someone who knows what they are talking about, they have hand-selected someone from the US who does not live here, does not have to worry about living in a bombshelter or living next door to Iran which we sort of do now de factor thanks to the Lebanese caving into to ALL of Hezbollah's demands. And you want us to give the Syrians the Golan? Sure, it was such a lovely piece of land when the Syrians had it before they attacked Israel. No one pays any attention to the Peace Now folks and for good reason, regardless of where they are located.

For the conspiracy theorist who mentions the Liberty, get over yourself. The US freely admitted spying on Israel and deserved what it got. They also had all of their radio signals in the Sinai picked up by the Egyptians and were within their rights to attack it.

And finally, no we are not all blood-related to Arabs. Not sure who ever made this one up, but it is a lame argument with nothing scientific to back it up. Our recent genetic testing indicates we are most closely connected with Kurds, not some morons wandering around in the deserts of Arabia.

And as for you "amoo" consider yourself reported to the Post for your offensive and racist comments which have no place in this discussion.

Sounds like Olmert is trying to draw attention away from his criminal bribery charges. He has the nerve to dictate to Iran when Israel has unchecked arms??

I'm glad to see people are waking up to the 50+ year LIE. Party's over.

After cremation, CPR is not an option.

Since Olmert is finished in any case, he should forthrightly offer peace to the Palestinians and say go to hell to the settlers and the right wing Israelis. What does he have to lose?

Yes the Palestinians harbor some terrorists. Israel has bulldozed houses of familiies whose sons threw rocks, burned down olive groves of innocent families to flush out rocket launching thugs and many other forms of "punishment by proxy". This is what Nazis did in Europe. If a resistance fighter shot Germans from a hiding place in a village, the Nazis would punish the villagers. Using the methods of your former oppressors does not become you Israel.

Right... the whole world is bigoted? And you do realize the Palestinians and Arabs are also Semites, yes? And Israel is completely innocent?

Both sides have much blood on their hands, starting way back in 1948. Terrorism is an inexcusable means for fighting war, particularly targeting innocent civilians as many of the Palestinian groups have done repeatedly. But so is forcing hundreds of thousands of people to spend several decades as refugees with no chance of ever going home so that one group can have an ethnically cleansed pseudo-utopian society on the others' land.

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TAZ said:

the Palestinians already have 2 countries.....they don't need nor do they seem to want a third Pal country. Maybe one day the pals will love their own children more than they hate innocent Israeli citizens....when that day comes they will deserve their own (third) country. As of right now, the Pals deserve absolutely nothing....they have turned their backs on deals for their own (third)state and have stated again and again thru elections and actions that they only want to destroy Israel, kill civilians and drive the Jews into the sea(massacre them)...not create a real home. Please read The Case for Israel by A Dershowit and maybe you'll see the reality and not the terrorist propaganda spread by a foolish and anti-semitic world media and a useless and bigoted U.N.

"Israel is America’s closest and longest ally in the region"

Tell that to the crew of the USS Liberty.. or explain why there are so many Israeli spies such as Pollard and literally dozens of others..

Ever notice that liberals can't finish a sentance without calling someone a name?

Who cares what you people think. You have the maturity level of 6 year olds.

You're assuming two things in this PURELY hypothetical communication -- neither of which are true.

First, you're suggesting that anyone close to power in Israel has either the political capital or the cojones to demand an immediate, unequivocal stop to those god-forsaken settlement expansions at the epicenter of all Arab and Islamic antipathy in that part of the world. Don't forget for a minute that the last great Israeli with the credibility and courage to move toward such a goal, Yitzhak Rabin, was shot -- in the back no less -- and killed by some punk Likud zealot.

Secondly, and just as important, you're imputing to GWB an intellect and courage that the little chicken hawk sorely lacks. Instead, he shows up in places like Jerusalem as a gutless, whimpering fool, all choked up while raising the specter of Nazi Panzers rolling across Europe 70 years ago.

Chimpy?? Saving his legacy?? At this point??

ROFLMAO!!! LOL!!! 8^)

Damn, that was funny.

Please tell me the conversation didn't involve a "Helluva job, Ehud!" regarding the war in Lebanon. Please tell me Bush isn't going to give him a medal, then announce he is suggesting Olmert to lead the World Bank.

I am sadly amused by the first two posts I read here; the first, by sickofit, stated that Israel does not want peace. The second, by ZZIM, basically said that Palestinians don't want peace.

These aren't just views on the topic... they're views on the world. And they are, unfortunately, the biggest impediment to peace. No, believing and clapping won't make peace come. But disbelieving will make sure it never does.

GOOD GOD! (so to speak!

Are we pretending here that Israel wants peace?

Israel doesn't want peace, Israel wants Palestine. It's so insulting to pretend otherwise.

As for Ohlmert's resignation for bribery, etc., we'll just get another crooked leader, as corrupt as those before him and those to follow. In that ugly and most corrupt of nations.

Who would think that savage warmongers deep in genocide would be decent or pristine in matters of money?

And THIS mess is supported by the struggling American taxpayer. Allowed to ruin our good name.
It's sick.

Ori, Implicit in your article is the assumption that anyone can get the Palestinians to live peacefully with anyone, including themselves. That is a silly and naive assumption. There is absolutely nothing in the Palistinian history that gives any indication that this is possible. Really the optimum solution given current realities is the one we have right now. Israel and both Palestinian-rules territories exist in a stable balance. Why muck things up? The Palestinians won't agree to allow Israel to exist, so why should Israel talk to them? About what? And what the heck does this have to do with Gearge Bush's presidency? What do you expect - has he got to walk on water and turn water into wine? You're assumptions (or is that presumptions) are ridiculous.

What has become of the Israeli people? How can any Israeli hope to have peace through land concessions? While some, perhaps even most Palestinians would live in genuine peace with their Israeli neighbors, certainly a significant and intimidating number will continue to refuse peace, and continue to strive for the day Israel no longer exists.

Israel is fifty nine years old with three generations of Israelis, native born and naturalized living there. Regardless of anyone’s opinion toward the appropriateness of nationhood, Israel is there to stay, as it should.

Closer to home; Israel is America’s closest and longest ally in the region, and regardless of our wishful thinking, we will be at war with Islamic extremism that not only threatens the United States and the West in general, but the sovereign nations in the Arab world as well.

Before throwing land concessions on the table, perhaps the “Peace at Any Cost” movement ought to first decide who and where the "determining" Palestinians will be in the long struggle against Islamic fundamentalism. Perhaps then they will make a more sober assessment of the issue.

Even if Olmert would say this to Bush, Bush would not listen. Remember, Bush is an idiot.

In bushies case, SOS is Sack of Shi*

Explain to me how the palestians can build any infrastructure ?, while there getting bombed, attacked,and constantly being harrassed by the Israelis ??, In addition, dividing them up even more will only add to the problem.

Israel never wanted peace with the Palestinians.They just want to keep killing more and more Palestinians everday hoping that desperate Palestinians will eventually leave the country and take refuge somewhere else.This is not going to happen regardless of this ruthless and systematic genocide. Palestinians have stood against all European Invaders during the Crusades in the 12th. centry while the Zionist neo invaders were hiding in Europe making business and collectong money. Throughout all their history,Palestinians never gave in to foreign invaders.The only solution for this chronic Dlemma is establishing one secular country on all the land of Historical Palestine for Jews,Moslems and Christians with equal rights and responsibilities and without any kind of descrimination.

Seventy years ago, on 27 July 1938 David Ben Gurion, MAPAI Party leader told the Zionist Union Council: "The Arabs have resided in Palestine longer than the English in England. They live here, and revolt against the others [=Jews] who want to take over their land. It is true that you [Zionists] have an affiliation to the land. But the other nation already lives here".

The Arab revolt, or war, for their country' according to Ben Gurion started 72 years ago.

So why does it still go on?
Since 2002, when the Arab League offered Israel Total Peace for Total Withdrawal to the pre June 1967 lines, the blame is solely with the Israeli Government and the Bush Administration, as ex-Haaretz West Bank specialist Ori Nir suggests,

[Document found in Ben Gurion Archive, at Beer Sheba University. - my translation].

As it is the Zionists intention to either force Gazan residents to flee or die, and the west bank as well, America's funding of Israel should cease immediately and completely. Israel is a state sponsor of terror, and the source of most of the tension in the middle east (which the Zionists think belongs to them)

Why does the Post print something like this?

I love the Jewish people and the Jewish religion, but Zionism is racist and bigoted in my opinion.

When Christians say that God gave them America, I feel the same way. That is a hateful and bigoted attitude.

And yes of course many people who are followers of various religions, including Islam, have similar awful attitudes.

Why does the Washington Post print these things?

loveandinfinity.com

Amen to Taz!
What have Pals done to uphold their end?
Stopped firing rockets?
Stopped teaching to hate?
Reigned in any of the violence?
Built any infrastructure other than rocket factories?
NO!

the Palestinians already have 2 countries.....they don't need nor do they seem to want a third Pal country. Maybe one day the pals will love their own children more than they hate innocent Israeli citizens....when that day comes they will deserve their own (third) country. As of right now, the Pals deserve absolutely nothing....they have turned their backs on deals for their own (third)state and have stated again and again thru elections and actions that they only want to destroy Israel, kill civilians and drive the Jews into the sea(massacre them)...not create a real home. Please read The Case for Israel by A Dershowit and maybe you'll see the reality and not the terrorist propaganda spread by a foolish and anti-semitic world media and a useless and bigoted U.N.

A reasonable and well proffered argument. Which means that GW will never even consider it. It does not fit in with the dilusional picture he has built up (or was built up for him) in his mind.

I totally agree with this. There must be a lot of string pulling and stupidity going on, otherwise we would be a lot closer to what this article is saying already since it obviously makes a lot more sense than GW's and Israels current boneheaded/malicious stance. GW is a weakass chimp with a low IQ apparently controlled by the prince of darkness.

Very reasonable proposition, I felt.

A rarity in the highly emotionally charged political arenas, these days.