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"International Humiliation" on Food Safety May Be in China's Best Interest

By Wang Feng

I awoke this morning to the headline in the Chinese newspapers: “China bans diethylene glycol in toothpaste.” My first reaction: Finally, the bureaucrats have given in to international pressure. It seems China can use all the international humiliation it can get.

Diethylene glycol, a toxic industrial solvent, is often used in China to replace the similar but more expensive glycerine, a harmless food additive. Chinese-made toothpaste containing diethylene glycol has been discovered and recalled all over the world. But until this morning, Chinese officials had insisted that a small amount of diethylene glycol in toothpaste was harmless to the human body. Never mind that a Chinese shipment of it was blamed for the deaths of over 100 Panamanians after a drug maker there put it into a cough syrup, believing it was glycerine. Chinese officials maintained that it was a safe additive in toothpaste even in the very statement that later banned such a use: “There is no known case of direct human poisoning by toothpaste with diethylene glycol,” the statement said. Yeah, right. Pardon me if I would still rather do without it in mine.

I am happy with the outcome now – that is, if China can really enforce this ban effectively. Good luck with that. Our government has, under mounting U.S. pressure, vowed more than a few times to root out pirated DVDs of Hollywood blockbusters. But guess how much I paid for a copy of “Spiderman III” at my neighborhood store?

The toothpaste saga is a textbook case of a public health and food safety crisis that wouldn't have even raised eyebrows inside China, much less been addressed and resolved on a national level, if it hadn't escalated into an international scandal. And the toothpaste issue is a relatively minor case in a string of serious crises that have continuously tarnished the "Made in China” label. Among those are the recent American pet food scare and the Panamanian cough syrup deaths (although I've never quite figured out why the deaths of 17 U.S. cats got so much more worldwide news coverage than the deaths of more than 100 Panamanians.)

Even when domestic scandals do break, they aren’t usually handled in a way that instills public confidence. When a fake medicine killed dozens of patients in China a year ago, it triggered a national outcry and a subsequent government investigation. In the end, officials announced only that they had fined the factory, and suspended its license "pending further inspection and improvement." The public was told nothing else -- why the Chinese FDA had approved the drug in the first place, or why regulators hadn’t found the problem until the patients were dying in agony.

The final revelation came earlier this year when Zheng Xiaoyu, then head of the Chinese FDA, was sacked, investigated for corruption and swiftly sentenced to death. He lost his appeal six weeks later and was executed this past Monday. In the media storm surrounding Zheng’s downfall, we learned that the man had almost single-handedly approved tens of thousands of drug licenses without following due procedure, pocketing millions in bribes from pharmaceutical firms. His corrupt administration was also blamed for some of the international crises, including the Panamanian poisoning case. Zheng's execution was no surprise to observers. Many believe he was made into a scapegoat, a convenient target for focusing public wrath.

So, transparency at last? Not according to Zheng's lawyers. They tried hard to spare his life, citing the amount of money involved (much less in comparison to many other convicted corrupt officials sentenced only to life in prison), and his cooperation with investigators. But Zheng's trial was also one of the most secretive and least publicized in recent years. The government never released the details of its case against him, and no one knew which companies had bribed him until his lawyers defied a government gag order and posted court documents on the Internet. They did so in a desperate protest against the shroud of secrecy under which the case was handled.

Ours is a country with a weak central government, whose laws are good but whose local enforcement of those laws is lacking; our corrupt and inefficient judiciary, especially on the grassroots level, rules often in favor of the side that pays the higher bribe. Under those circumstances, we as journalists have long advocated the free flow of information as another antidote to corruption. That can help the public learn what went wrong, even if only after the fact.

I admit it may be an exaggeration to say that only a major international loss of face will make Beijing clean up its act. But as both a journalist and a consumer in a country where the public almost never learns the full story behind any scandal, I welcome the pressure and the subsequent change that such attention can bring.

Wang Feng is a Beijing-based journalist.

Posted by Wang Feng on July 12, 2007 4:44 AM

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I'm also amazed at the hubris of a person who could actually claim that the RMB could rise without the dollar dropping. By definition, if the RMB rises, the dollar drops... which by golly is what's been happening for the last year!

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Then, the Chinese could buy movies, books, software, and other intellectual property; or, they would buy those things, if the CCP stopped encouraging their manufacturers to pirate them.


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July 25, 2007 1:07 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 25, 2007 01:07

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Posted on July 20, 2007 11:06

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Hyperion 76 replies:

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Posted on July 20, 2007 10:59

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Posted on July 20, 2007 02:59

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"Don't you think you should begin your message by thanking Wang Feng and wishing that other Chinese could be more like him?"

ASDF replies:

But most Chinese are like him. They're pissed off at their government and absolutely despise corruption. Your average Chinese mainlander want to do something about it but its not exactly a free country. They are smart, they KNOW media pressure is the best way, especially foreign media. Given the opportunity they will voice their opinions in front of cameras, "face" be damned.

You lived in China for three years, you should know this. You need to give Chinese people a LOT more credit, and not talk down about them as much.

July 19, 2007 11:30 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 23:30

Hyperion 76:

Anonymous says:

"Europeans did not tell the native American Indians about the plague Europeans carried from Europe to America which eventually killed most of the native American Indians."

Hyperion 76:

No, and the rulers of Cathay never told the Europeans about the bubonic plague which Chinese merchants and traders exported from China to Europe, thus exterminating as much as a third of the European population. Or, did you forget about that?

Sir, what are you trying to say? Rory pointed out, quite correctly, that the CCP has worked hard to cover up Chinese disease like bird flu and SARS, thus endangering the people of China and the world. Rory pointed out that this shows the same mentality as that of the jingoes who have cursed brave and honest Chinese, like Wang Feng. Don't you think you should begin your message by thanking Wang Feng and wishing that other Chinese could be more like him?


July 19, 2007 10:31 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 22:31

Hyperion 76:

American In China asks:

"As far as American products, um which products would those be that they need to buy?

Hyperion replies:

Food, for one. I spent three years in China and I have a very good idea of how the ordinary Chinese eat; the Chinese I met were actually bitter about how undernourished everyone except a few city people were; and I know damn well that that country could easily absorb thirty or forty pounds of American meat per person, all one point six billion of them, if the Reminbi rose high enough that the could afford it, and if the the CCP stopped creating Non-Tariff Barriers (NTB) to keep American meat out.

Then, the Chinese could buy movies, books, software, and other intellectual property; or, they would buy those things, if the CCP stopped encouraging their manufacturers to pirate them.

July 19, 2007 10:23 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 22:23

Hyperion 76:

Rory said:

"China's fixation on "face" just means they eschew short term humiliation by covering things up in exchange for long term failure and the deaths of innocent people."

Hyperion replies:

You are correct -- the Chinese obsession with 'face' is at the root of the problem. You have spoken very well.

July 19, 2007 10:17 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 22:17

Anonymous:

"RORY: what about the friggin' bird flu epidemic?"

You don't know your history, RORY.
Europeans did not tell the native American Indians about the plague Europeans carried from Europe to America which eventually killed most of the native American Indians.

July 19, 2007 7:37 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 19:37

Hyperion 76:

American in China said:

"I'm pretty sure laughing in China's face will really make them want to help or cooperate with the U.S. "

Hyperion replies:

I spent three years living in the People's Republic of China, and I learned the hard way that the Chinese learn nothing whatsoever from diplomacy. If you talk to them diplomatically, the Chinese will simply twist your words to fit their prejudices, and then they will go away thinking that you really believe that Tibet is part of China, or that Vietnam attacked China in 1979. I learned, time and time again, that the Chinese will not learn anything until you tell them the flat and simple truth, and sometimes you have to laugh in their faces to do that.

Secondly, there is no amount of persuasion that will ever make the Chinese Communist Party want to 'cooperate' with us on trade or any other issue. If you give the CCP the shirt off your back, they will tell you that you must be doing it because it serves your secret evil plan, and then they will demand that you give them your pants and your shoes as well. The only thing that ever gets cooperation from the Chinese Communist Party is sanctions or the threat of sanctions. For example, the Chinese Communist Party stood solidly behind the genocidal government of Sudan until the international community threatened to boycott the Beijing Olympics, and then for the first time the Chinese government agreed to let the UN send peacekeepers to Sudan.

American in China says:

"If China allowed the RMB to float, Chinese goods would certainly be less competitive, but the dollar would go into a free fall and interest rates would skyrocket."

Hyperion replies:

Wrong. If the value of the Reminbi rose, then Chinese people would use the Reminbi to buy American dollars so they coud buy American products. The value of the dollar would not drop in the least.

I will add more to this later...

July 19, 2007 4:30 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 16:30

Rory:

Every country has sketchy grey market manufacturers who cut corners, skirt the law, and endanger the public.

The US public doesn't lose respect for this happening in China, they lose respect for China when they LIE about it afterwards.

As is typical in communist countries, there is a long history of Chinese scandals that we only even know about because of a few gutsy whistle blowers who end up going to the Western press after they are gagged at the local level. Put aside the recent pet poisonings - what about the friggin' bird flu epidemic? That was made much, much worse by the complete refusal of Chinese officials to even admit there was a problem, letting the virus therefore spread further among the population (and travel out of the country via the airports). God only knows what other horrible things are happening there that party officials are still fighting tooth and nail to hide.

If you screw up, you DESERVE to be humiliated. In America, this happens all the time - but the caveat is that we are very forgiving of companies that own up to their mistakes and correct them. This is basic public relations for modern industry. China's fixation on "face" just means they eschew short term humiliation by covering things up in exchange for long term failure and the deaths of innocent people. Probably not the best way to go for the supposed "next superpower".

July 19, 2007 12:26 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 12:26

Anonymous:

American Federal health officials warned consumers Wednesday to throw away certain cans of American made hot dog chili sauce after the product was linked to botulism in commercially canned foods. The products were made by the Castleberry's Food Co., owned by Bumble Bee Seafoods LLC, based in San Diego. FDA has sent experts to the Castleberry's plant in Augusta, Ga., where the products were canned.

Botulism is a muscle-paralyzing disease caused by a toxin made by a bacterium called Clostridium botulinum. The toxin is so potent if they get it on their hands or it sprays in their face, it could make them ill.

Symptoms of botulism include double or blurred vision, drooping eyelids, slurred speech, difficulty swallowing, dry mouth and muscle weakness that moves down the body, according to the CDC. Eventually, paralysis can cause a person to stop breathing and die, unless supported by a ventilator.

Four people were hospitalized. The victims _ two each in Texas and Indiana _ were seriously ill but expected to survive.

The warning applies to 10-ounce cans of Castleberry's, Austex and Kroger brands of hot dog chili sauce with "best by" dates from April 30, 2009, through May 22, 2009, the Food and Drug Administration said.

July 19, 2007 10:55 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 10:55

Chinese Too:

This article reveals how Chinese government regulatory system works. It's nothing new, but is a must read.

I think every adult Chinese know this situation for years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/18/AR2007071802768.html?hpid=topnews

July 19, 2007 9:02 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 19, 2007 09:02

American in China:

Hyperion says:

>>Is that a joke? If the Chinese make an accusation like that, I will only laugh.

Good response. Don't give up your day job to go into diplomacy. I'm pretty sure laughing in China's face will really make them want to help or cooperate with the U.S.

>>Actually, 'American', there is a fundamental problem with your logic. The Chinese only have money to lend because they keep the value of the reminbi so low that anyone can buy their products, while the Chinese people cannot afford to buy American products.

This is fundamentally not true. The Chinese have $1.33 trillion in foreign currency reserves, most of which is in U.S. dollars and most of which is invested in U.S. treasuries. This is why they can make bids for entire oil companies or buy huge portions of Blackstone. To think that this was all accomplished by currency manipulation is foolish. I suppose all developing countries can devalue their currency until they're rich.


>>If the Chinese government allowed the value of the reminbi to float like a normal currenty, the reminbi would rise immediately. Then, Americans would no longer afford to buy floods of 'cheap' Chinese goods, while the Chinese would suddenly find American products to be very affordable. China needs American trade more than America needs Chinese trade. If trade between America and China ended tomorrow, Americans would pay ten or fifteen percent...

You seem to always miss half of the equation. If China allowed the RMB to float, Chinese goods would certainly be less competitive, but the dollar would go into a free fall and interest rates would skyrocket. Americans wouldn't be only paying 10-15% more, we wouldn't be able to pay at all. China subsidizes our buying by taking payment in U.S. dollars, reinvests those dollars to keep our borrowing rates low, and then tolerates our trying to devalue those same dollars. So they give us product and we give them paper that they have difficulty using. So they need us to keep their economy growing... but don't think for a moment that we don't need them almost as badly. Who's going to absorb all of those extra dollars that we give out like frequent flyer miles? As far as American products, um which products would those be that they need to buy?

July 16, 2007 1:19 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 16, 2007 13:19

Chinese Too:

One report indicates Beijing is activating its "Olympic food safety" program. According the report, this program was designed to ensure some safety issues during Olympic next year. With so much media attention on the food crisis, they decided to activated it early.

It's good that international attention triggers Chinese government to pay attention to food safety. However, Chinese media have been reported so many food problems before, only western criticism and export crisis get the attention.

July 16, 2007 11:23 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 16, 2007 11:23

Chinese Too:

In Chinese term, "thin face" is a personality problem associated with inferior complex and therefore cannot take any criticism at all.

It's OK to have inferior complex, as long as we know it and not to lose sight of the reality. Inferior complex is not that bad, and can be a strong source of energy to drive us to advance ourselves, to catch up.

We are all normal human being with normal strength and weakness. We should be happy to be normal.

July 16, 2007 11:15 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 16, 2007 11:15

Anonymous:

As an American I've had enough of the systemic problems that contaminate American products, including American bioengineered food.

It's systemic when Americans eat cow crap hamburgers for generations. I for one will never eat hamburger again.

Does that mean I hate America? No, I love America, but America needs to fix its systemic problems with poisons and contaminants getting into products.

American food manufacturers and processors must stop messing around with our food. No more growth hormone and pesticide in our food, please?


July 16, 2007 11:00 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 16, 2007 11:00

Sean from California:

Getting back to the original issue under discussion, I don't want melamine in my food [or my pet's food, if I had one] or antifreeze in my toothpaste. Period. Yes, the U.S. has problems, but they are not as systemic as the ones in china. Last year's E. Coli outbreak was because one small patch of spinach in California had some E. Coli germs on it, not because [as in China] there are systemic problems with contaminated products.

Does that mean I hate China? No. I think it has a lot of good features, and the Chinese people I've met have all been very nice. What it means is that China needs to fix its systemic problems with poisons and contaminants getting into products. I don't have a solution for doing that. but until it happens I will try to avoid consuming products made in or processed through China.

I hope the Chinese find a solution. I would like to see that great country take it's proper place in a free and democratic global society where people of all races live happily and countries cooperate with each other, viewing themselves as parts of a team -- humanity -- and not as rivals. That will not happen until countries can trust that the things they sent to and from each other are reliable.

July 16, 2007 1:20 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 16, 2007 01:20

Anonymous:

Washington Post
July 14, 2007

China has suspended imports from several major U.S. meat processors, frozen poultry products from Tyson Foods Inc., the world's largest meat processor, were found to be contaminated with salmonella, frozen chicken feet from Sanderson Farms, Inc. tainted with residue of an anti-parasite drug, as well as frozen pork ribs from Cargill Meat Solutions Corp. containing a leanness-enhancing feed additive.

July 14, 2007 12:05 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 12:05

Chinese Too:

I think for majority of Chinese, the most hateful two things have to be proverty and corruption. The 1989 Tien-An-Men Square demonstration was called by western media as a democracy movement. However, most slogans I saw were actually anti-corruption messages.

China has come a long way. The proverty level is getting better as China abandoned Communism, but the society suffered a lot too. Corruption only became much worse as most Chinese can't wait to get rich quick enough; divorce rate increased quickly; not to mention the migrant workers.

July 14, 2007 11:05 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 11:05

I LOVE DOG & CAT MEAT!!!:

I love it so much I ate both of my neighbors' dogs and cats. And sometimes I eat dogs and cats alive!!!

July 14, 2007 10:14 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 10:14

ck:

It\\\'s been a long and winding road: Archaeological findings suggest human activity in Hong Kong dates back over 5,000 years. Bronze fishing and combat tools during Bronze Age have been excavated on Lamma and Lantau Islands. Stone religious carvings on outlying islands and coastal areas have also been found, possibly related Che people in Neolithic! The territory was incorporated into Qin Dynasty China over 2,000 years ago.

The Opium trafficking Brits took over the Island in 1841, then Kowloon in 1860, and then the leasing of the New territories in 1898. It was only until the formation of the ICAC from 1974 now that the normal practice of nepotism and bribery was, shall we say, made redundant and outlawed.

July 14, 2007 2:03 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 02:03

CK:

We all know that certain projects and activities are prone to corruption. In areas, for example, of public works contracts, licensing systems, public procurement, and law enforcement.

The Hong Kong Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) since its inception in 1974 have attack corruption through vigorous law enforcement, corruption prevention and continuous public education. These are carried out by the three functional departments of ICAC : the Corruption Prevention Department, the Operations Department and the Public or Community Relations Department.

Public education and interaction: To a great degree, the Hong Kong ICAC program owes it success to the simple, easy to understand and to follow procedures for members of the public to cooperate with the HK government. There are minimal bureaucratic entanglement and therefore avoiding unnecessary administrative delay.

Transparency & Accountability: At the same time, the public sector policies and procedures are made to be as transparent as possible. Then there is the question of supervisory accountability. Civil service managers and supervisors are required to account for the way that their subordinate staff perform their public duties.

July 14, 2007 1:10 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 01:10

CK:

\"Yet, non-democracies such as Taiwan under Japanese rule before 1945, or Hong Kong and Singapore, can survive without corruption. Any ideas?\"

Imperial rule over Small territories, and small populations?

July 14, 2007 12:44 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 14, 2007 00:44

Chinese Too:

I am sure Zheng Xiaoyu was not alone in Chinese government. He was a scientist with a vision to develop Chinese food and drug industry. Yet only in a few years, he was so addicted to money and caused his own destruction and the life of so many others.

After this swift and unpleasant execution, I wonder is there any serious study to find out what causes these corruptions. We know the usual answer of not having enough media watchdog and lack of democracy. Change to a democracy is definitely a long shot for China. In Asia, other democracies still cannot aviod corruptions as in the case of the Philippines and India. Yet, non-democracies such as Taiwan under Japanese rule before 1945, or Hong Kong and Singapore, can survive without corruption. Any ideas?


July 13, 2007 9:26 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 21:26

Chinese Too:

Chinese In America:

Not to worry. In Internet standard, this level of fighting is nothing.

In terms of Korean and Japanese, I respect their work ethics and loyalty. There might be some superficial differences between North and South Koreas. I believe Koreans and Japanese are very similar in lot of ways. My Japanese friends may get very mad of me saying so. But that's my opinion.

We all receive the gift from our culture, and we can easily be the victim of this group identity. We just have to think out of our culture box.

July 13, 2007 8:04 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 20:04

Chinese in America:

The comments here have become very racial between Chinese and Korean. OK, guys, enough of that. I have a lot of good Korean friends and Japanese friends. The historical hatred between China, Korea and Japan still need to be forgotten and forgiven. I know we all look down upon each other. But the truth is that nobody is better than the other. There are things in Chinese culture that suck, as do some things in Korean and Japanese culture. I never understand why Japanese would feel superior to Chinese or Korean or vice versa.

July 13, 2007 5:49 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 17:49

Korean Guy:

Anonymous

Again, get your facts straight. So China invented paper? I'm sure China stole the idea just like it steals all its technology nowadays. China has a long (I mean thousands of years) history of pirating ideas and inventions. Middle Kingdom of thievery.

July 13, 2007 5:34 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 17:34

Anonymous:

Korean Guy, you must be so proud Korea "invented" everything that came from China.

Why, even the Korean "invention" of paper, used in printing Korean books and newspapers, came from China.

July 13, 2007 4:52 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 16:52

Korean Guy:

Chinese Too

In fact, I'm sure Dogmeat eating was invented by the Chinese. Other infamous creations attributable to the Chinese are foot-binding, slaughtering Tibetan monks, and forced abortions to control population growth. You can have credit for all that. You must be so proud.

July 13, 2007 4:34 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 16:34

Chinese Too:

Anonymous:

Americans may have been eating contaminated meat for generations and big American tobacco companies are killing people all over the world, Chinese still have the responsibility to save themselves from dangerous food, drugs and corruption.

Two wrongs do not make one right.

July 13, 2007 4:33 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 16:33

Chinese too:

Korean Dude:

After Koreans claimed soy milk was invented by Koreans , Dragonboat Festival and ChiYu (the guy who fought with Chinese ancestor HuangDi) were Korean, do you want to declare dog meat is authentic Korean national delicacy too?

July 13, 2007 4:11 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 16:11

Anonymous:

Boycott Korean dog meat and cat meat.

July 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 14:46

Korean Guy:

Chinese in American

Name me one BBQ place in Korea you've ever visited. Otherwise, you are in no position to comment. Thank you.

July 13, 2007 2:29 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 14:29

Korean Guy:

Anonymous

You have no idea what you're talking about. And thank you for not visiting Korea. You're doing us a favor. Go visit China and enjoy contaminating your body.

Boycott Chinese Products and the Beijing Olympic games.

July 13, 2007 2:24 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 14:24

Anonymous:

Americans have been eating feces contaminated hamburger meat for generations because American meat processing plants run the assembly line too fast and workers don't have time to fully remove fecal matters from dead animals. All the fast food restaurants use such hamburger meats.

July 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 13:49

Chinese in American:

I think this international outcry and resistence to things "Made in China" will be good for China in the long run. Chinese people need to learn and practice food safety and regulations as well as to enhance personal table manners in their family. I am sincere on this as a Chinese. We need to stop eating from the plates that are meant for everyone and start using serving spoons. It's gross and unclean for family members, let alone friends, to swap saliva through meals. Chinese will never gain the respect of other people as long as we share foods without a serving spoon. My family has stopped buying any food made in China. You can never be too safe. Oh, Korean dude, get lost. Your BBQ places are so filthy. How could you eat dog meat and claim it to be a national delicacy? In China, only very few sick Chinese would eat dog meat, cat meat, or horse meat. And those people are shun upon by the majority of Chinese. We may not be clean with our food processing, but we are not sick people.

July 13, 2007 11:24 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 11:24

Anonymous:

As an American I will never visit Korea much less eating Korean food, which I understand to include cat meat, dog meat, and God knows what else.

July 13, 2007 10:49 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 10:49

Chinese too:

Korean guy:

South Korea is the envy of Asia for her newly formed democracy and honest, harsh punishment to corrupted officials. But not all democracy can stop corruption.

With democracy, Taiwan's first lady is still claim sick and not to show up in court and she may get a pardon from her president husband for all the corruption charges. A good husband must love and protect his wife. Taiwanese men are good husbands.

There is election and democracy in the Philippines and India, but they too have their due level of corruptions.

There was no election in Hong Kong a few years back. They were under British colonial rule, but corruption level was very low. Brits did by rule of law, but not democracy.

There is not much democracy in Singapore either. They also stop corruption by clear rule of law.

July 13, 2007 9:43 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 09:43

Chinese Too:

Hyperion 76:

It's wrong to assume if RMB goes up, there will be more US export to China. Chinese exports are driven by low labor cost, not by quality or advance innovation. If RMB goes up, Chinese exports will be replaced by products from Vietnam, which is happening now because of rising labor cost in Chinese coastal cities.

All successful developing countries have to go through the growing pain to rise beyond the sweatshop stage and start to produce high quality and higher profit margin products.

July 13, 2007 9:29 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 09:29

Hyperion 76:

American in China says:

>>No doubt there is a lot to complain about China, but Americans fail to understand that a huge portion of our economy is tied in with China... with us getting by far the better deal. Witness the $1 trillion that we owe them and then think about how you're going to boycott what you've become so addicted to. It's likely that they're lending you the money in your mortgage. If you want to change someone's behavior on intellectual property, how much leverage do you think you'll have if you first borrow a trillion dollars?<<

Actually, 'American', there is a fundamental problem with your logic. The Chinese only have money to lend because they keep the value of the reminbi so low that anyone can buy their products, while the Chinese people cannot afford to buy American products. If the Chinese government allowed the value of the reminbi to float like a normal currenty, the reminbi would rise immediately. Then, Americans would no longer afford to buy floods of 'cheap' Chinese goods, while the Chinese would suddenly find American products to be very affordable. If the reminbi rose to its natural level, China's surplus would melt like snow, and the Chinese companies which rely on the current imbalance would collapse like a house of cards.

China needs American trade more than America needs Chinese trade. If trade between America and China ended tomorrow, Americans would pay ten or fifteen percent more for a wide range of goods, but in a week or a month or a year we would find other sources of manufactured goods in India or Indonesia or Brazil. The situation in China would be much harder, because the Chinese would never find a market as big or rich or accommodating as ours. Without the American market, two hundred million Chinese would be out of work, and the Chinese Communist Party would either have to resort to more massacres, or be driven out of power. That is why America has far more power in the relationship than you seem to understand.

July 13, 2007 8:40 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 08:40

Hyperion 76:

American in China says:

>>Yes, it's horrible that there are poisoned products coming out of China. But before you stake out the moral high ground, try staying on your high horse when they accuse you of killing 100,000 Iraqis for oil. <<

Is that a joke? If the Chinese make an accusation like that, I will only laugh. First, because I don't think we have killed anyone for oil, and secondly, because the Chinese Empire remains in Tibet, and Xinjiang, and Inner Mongolia, and the part of Korea which China stole after the Korean War. Third, because the Chinese Empire continues to support genocidal regimes in North Korea, Burma, and Sudan. It will be a cold day in hell before the Chinese get to talk about 'moral high horses.'

July 13, 2007 8:20 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 08:20

Korean Guy:

Give me a break, Anonymous.

Dogmeat is a delicacy in Korea and is very expensive. Yes, I admit that Dogmeat is sold in Korea, but the industry is regulated. And no restaurant owner would ever sell it to “unsuspecting” customers, because it is too expensive and wasteful to do that. Chicken and pork are much more inexpensive. Dogmeat is considered a delicacy and is sold for medicinal purposes. And don’t give me your disingenuous indignation about Dogmeat. China sells Dogmeat too. They also sell Catmeat, which you will never see in Korea.

Also, your assertion that South Korea does not have food safety standard is absolutely incorrect. South Korea does have quality control. You don’t see problems with Korean food products or any products in the international press like you do with Chinese goods. China is reaping what it has sown.

I concede there are corrupt Korean officials in the government, but we have free elections and a free press, unlike China. If there is corruption, the average Korean citizen can do something about it.

Needless to say, this does not alter the truth: If you go to the Beijing Olympic Games, you are going to risk your health.

July 13, 2007 8:11 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 08:11

bob tichell in Rochester:

Unfortunately almost all countries have corrupt and lying officials. repressive countries more so because they cannot be outed easily. The US. dependence on cheap goods from the third world also encourages sweat shops to thrive.The presence of so many undocumented foreigners in the U.S. allows the same to happen here. Until we can convince other nations to force manufacturers and farmers to pay better wages and commence the rise in working conditions that began in this country only 100 years ago there will always be the disparity. Neither Communism or the free-market system has been willing to do this. The cause is overpopulation in developing countries due to the lack of birth control, or in China's case just the huge numbers in spite of it. Penicillin and other antibiotics have resulted in this by curing sterilizing types of venereal disease such as gonorrhea as well as preventing death due to childhood infections. The U.S. in it's religious wisdom refuses family planning aid to nations that allow abortion.The most evil person in the world, THE POPE, preaches the evils of birth control to the Catholics in the developing countries. The world will experience heartbreaking famines, Rwandas, and Darfurs before we all get together and figure it out. Meanwhile, good luck trying to avoid products from China.

July 13, 2007 6:49 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 06:49

bob tichell in Rochester:

Unfortunately almost all countries have corrupt and lying officials. repressive countries more so because they cannot be outed easily. The US. dependence on cheap goods from the third world also encourages sweat shops to thrive.The presence of so many undocumented foreigners in the U.S. allows the same to happen here. Until we can convince other nations to force manufacturers and farmers to pay better wages and commence the rise in working conditions that began in this country only 100 years ago there will always be the disparity. Neither Communism or the free-market system has been willing to do this. The cause is overpopulation in developing countries due to the lack of birth control, or in China's case just the huge numbers in spite of it. Penicillin and other antibiotics have resulted in this by curing sterilizing types of venereal disease such as gonorrhea as well as preventing death due to childhood infections. The U.S. in it's religious wisdom refuses family planning aid to nations that allow abortion.The most evil person in the world, THE POPE, preaches the evils of birth control to the Catholics in the developing countries. The world will experience heartbreaking famines, Rwandas, and Darfurs before we all get together and figure it out. Meanwhile, good luck trying to avoid products from China.

July 13, 2007 6:49 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 06:49

American in China:

Wow, the posts on this thread reveal so much misinformation on the part of fellow U.S. citizens that I don't know where to begin. To preface this post, let me say that I love my country. It is where I was born and bred and the ideals of our founding fathers is the land that I hope my children will grow up in and live to the fullest in pursuit of happiness.

However, accomplishing that goal is going to be much difficult if we don't wake up and get a clue about how people in other countries feel about us. No doubt there is a lot to complain about China, but Americans fail to understand that a huge portion of our economy is tied in with China... with us getting by far the better deal. Witness the $1 trillion that we owe them and then think about how you're going to boycott what you've become so addicted to. It's likely that they're lending you the money in your mortgage. If you want to change someone's behavior on intellectual property, how much leverage do you think you'll have if you first borrow a trillion dollars?

Yes, it's horrible that there are poisoned products coming out of China. But before you stake out the moral high ground, try staying on your high horse when they accuse you of killing 100,000 Iraqis for oil.

July 13, 2007 6:11 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 06:11

Anonymous:

" DAVE: The developing country conditions foster the sweatshop atmosphere "

There are sweatshops in the U.S., don't be a hypocrite!


July 13, 2007 1:00 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 01:00

Anonymous:

PATTY L,

There are one million dogs and cats abandoned and put to death each year in California alone. Yes, 1,000,000. Imagine the total number for 50 states in the U.S., get the picture? 4000 is a drop in the bucket in comparison.

July 13, 2007 12:48 AM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 13, 2007 00:48

American girl:

Dave,
There is a difference between encouraging competition and efficiency and supporting irresponsible corporate practices. Goods can be made at a reasonable, affordable price under conditions that are responsible to the workers, the consumer, the environment. It's an issue of corporate social responsbility and consumers are vital in demonstrating to companies that they are willing to pay enough so that workers are paid a living wage, not a sweatshop wage, and that the real product is included, not a toxic substitute.
Yes, I'd rather have sweatshops in China than nothing, since the alternative for many of the workers I have interviewed is prostitution or selling blood (which is risky in many countries including China for the obvious health issues as well as the risk of contracting diseases like AIDS). But by supporting companies like Costco, which has a great record on corporate social repsonsibility, and not supporting companies that have a bad record on it, wages can be improved for factory workers, products can be safer (because the companies spend the money and effort for regular quality control checks) and the environment is less impacted.
Low prices generally do mean that something is being made cheaply -- ie cutting corner. China does legimately have much lower labor costs than the US, but the prices you are getting at Walmart (and other things in that price point) are not due to the legimate difference in purchasing power, but in short cuts that damage workers, the environment and product quality. I speak from first-hand experience on this -- I've been in those factories, on the floor watching them make the products in China, the US and a few other places (never toothpaste, but clothes, shoes, toys, toilet seats, dog chew toys etc.)
The key is to find the balance in the middle which I think is done through more educated consumers who understand and act on the links that their purchasing choices have on the greater world -- which include the wages of workers on the other side of the world and the chemicals those workers are putting in toothpaste.

July 12, 2007 11:04 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted on July 12, 2007 23:04

Maurie Beck:

Anonymous,

You sure are prickly. You sound like you have a persecution complex.

U.S. citizens don't hate Chinese. However, if China doesn't fix the health and safety problems, Americans won't buy the goods from China. I'm sure companies that use Chinese produced products are looking for alternate suppliers. They can't afford to poison Americans because the rule of law carries more weight here (though it's not perfect) than in China.

By the way, your benzene example is a false equivalency; the amount of diethylene glycol in toothpaste is at least three orders of magnitude higher than the benzene in soft drinks.

July 12, 2007 9:39 PM |