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IMHO, if you want peace in the Middle East, give Israel its GOD given land and move the "poor"
Palestinians to Jordan (75 to 80% Palestinian).
Israel must go back to the Faith of Their Fathers,
and regain their rightful place in this so-called
"real" world. Peace in this region will never be
attained by human means. Only when The Prince of
Peace comes to rule, it will be possible. Thank you.

PF,

As I have pointed out many times, these are not ideas I just cooked up myself. They are represented clearly in the very charter of Israels Kadima party, the Iraq Study Group, Bush I, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Z. Brzeninski, Colin Powell, Walt and Measheimer, Tony Blair and vitually the entire world as represented by their votes in the UN on related matters, and not just one or two votes, but 30 or 40.

So, if you don't like what I am saying please direct your criticisms to their proper sources, which I have listed above.

Between baseless, childish insults, it would appear that your central thesis is: everything that Israel is doing can be blamed on some sort of "security" issue. That seems to contradict the thinking of israels own people, who want very much to dump most if not all of the settlements, due to their crushing costs, inspiration of terror, and the moral stain they they have marked Israel with in the eyes of the entire world. So your opinion seems to be opposite of the very opinions of the people you see as so vulnerable to attack. And by the way, attack from whom? Jordan? Egypt? You have got to be kidding.

When the settlements are removed, It is highly probable that there will be a UN peace keeping force in the west bank for as long as it takes for Palestine to stabilize, so there is little chance of attack from there either.

In fact, no matter how far back or forward you move the borders, Israel is no more or less defensible. That arguement is rejected completely by the entire world.

But I am more interested to hear your opinions about what should be done with the Palestinians if the settlements are not removed and keep growing.

I also would like to hear your views about why you think it is that Israel needs financial aid in the first place, and what could be done to lift Israel out of the apparent poverty that must cause it, if it is not caused by the settlements and the occupation.

I would also like to hear any thoughts you have about why that list of people and nations I provided above seem to believe everything that I have indicated that they believe, and disregard your arguements out of hand.

Why no, please CivicDoody, repeat yourself, again... Enthrall us with your acumen. Regale us with your brilliant military and realpolitic skills and amazing new idea that one party's retreating to indefensible, contested cease fire lines will cure all the world's ills. Just another inch is all they need... Such dreams are so refreshing.

Sari,

Your confusing the worlds disgust with the settlements and occupation with suppport for Israel proper (Green Line Israel).

Israel is as great a nation as any other and deserves to continue in its existance, and no one is questioning that.

However, the growing boycotts and cold shoulder that Israel recieves is due to their settlement program, which even a majority of the Israeli people abhor and is condemned openly by virtually the entire world.

People are calling for an end to THAT, not Israel.
Israel will be SAFER when the settlements and the occuapation are removed. The US will be SAFER when that happens.

Ever wondered why you see all kinds of video and interviews of Palestinians in the media but you NEVER see interviews with Israeli settlers talking about their issues? Its because their viewpoints and beliefs are so bonechillingly racist and ultranationalist that most American people would be shocked and disgusted to hear their views, which are diametrically opposed to the principles that shape US views on freedom and human rights.

The majority of Israelis find the settlers views equally appalling.

you are trying to equate ANY change in Israeli stance with the end of Israel. You are trying to equate peoples legitamate criticism of isreals settlements, which, by the way, THE ENTIRE WORLD has abandoned as a practice for quite some time now, as indicating their desire to see the END of Israel, which could not be further from the truth.

When the settlements are gone, the wall has been rebuilt on the green line only, and UN peace keepers are sent in to replace the IDF in the occupied territories, Israel will be infinitly more safe and will no longer need aid from the US, in that tourism and outside investment will flood Israel at unprecedented levels. They will be recognized and at peace with all major Arab nations. Terrorism world wide will be reduced, because the settlements are, as Bill Clinton said, the "philosohical underpinning of middle eastern terrorist recuiting". The US and Israel will regain the moral highground.

And most importantly, (at least in terms of your arguements above) it will lead to much greater assuranaces of Israels continued safty and prosperity, and not toward israels destruction.

In fact, regardless of what happens, Israel (even when we are forcing them to tear the settlements down and withdraw the occupation) will always have the protection of the US, and they have a huge military and 200 nukes of their own. They are not in any credible danger now, nor have they been for quite some time.

I don't mean to repeat myself, but it cannot be said too many times, : Removing the settlements, (which are morally indefensible in the first place) and occupation are the key to Israeli security, and will only HELP Israel, not hurt it.

I think Mr. Malka makes good points. The two governments are too weak. Olmert has only 2% support. The Israeli government will not last 3 months. Likewise, Abbas is weak. The Hamas is not unified. There are at least 3 different factions within it. You need strong leaders to make peace. Mr. Malka is correct to say that perhaps, you need some piecemeal agreements first.

Israel believes it is fighting for its survival. It believes that every country would gladly sell it down-the-river except for the USA. Why? Because history has given them evidence of this. The wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973. Who intervened? Who gave them aid? No one. The UN only stepped in when they started winning. When Israel was being clobbered, the UN was silent. British universities bar Israeli scholars and cancel speeches by pro-Israel scholars without apology. Hamas makes speech after speech promising that Israel will be defeated. They say they will never recognize a Jewish state.

To those who oppose Israel's national character as a Jewish state, do you also oppose having Islamic states like Malaysia, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? Should they have to abandon their religious character? Greece has a strong Greek Orthodox Christian national identity. Should they have to abandon it? Or is it only states with a Jewish identity?

I am honestly baffled by people’s misperceptions about the settlements and occupation.

1) The settlements are absolutely morally reprehensible and have no security value. They, like south African apartheid, need to be put out of commission first and foremost because they are a horrendous violation of human rights and stand in direct contravention to every principle of behavior that the US holds dear and expects of nations that it refers to as it's allies.

2) In fact, the settlements (and the occupation, which exists almost exclusively to support them) are the primary inspiration for Middle Eastern terrorism. In large part, 9/11 was inspired by the settlements and our support of them. That is why The Iraq study group, Bush I, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and virtually every nation on the earth as evidenced by numerous UN votes on the subject place the blame for Arab and Muslim terrorist backlash at the US squarely in the laps of the settlers and those who support them. That is what Tony Blair and the Iraq study group mean when they say that there will NEVER be an end to the war on terror until the Israeli Palestinian conflict is ended. 99% of the conflict is caused by the constantly growing settlements and the daily increase of hopelessness and violence that is visited upon the Palestinians. Remove that, and the conflict falls well below the critical level. Put a large UN peace keeping force in to pick up where the IDF left off, and Israel becomes VASTLY more secure after the settlements are raised and the occupation ended.

3) The US is not even remotely a fair broker of peace, in that we PAY for the shortfall caused by the crushing costs of the settlement movement and the occupation that supports them. However, we recognize that they are so morally reprehensible that officially we have never supported them.

This dichotomy only serves to fool the American people: like many people here, many Americans labor under the illusion that the US is somehow not involved in propping up and protecting the very settlement movement that we condemn.
In the Middle East, however, it is common knowledge that the settlements and occupation are solely supported by US funding in the form of foreign aid (Israel receives more foreign aid than any other country in the world) military aid and loan guarantees which are NEVER repaid.

4) Contrary to the propaganda, if we cut off funding to Israel in order to inspire them to pull out of the settlements entirely (or better yet, make all funding completely dependant upon immediate and full compliance with our wishes), end the occupation and to build the wall on the green line only, it would not only NOT cause Israel to become financially unstable but in fact would result in them finally ATTAINING financial stability and even wealth because, if you remove the utterly counterproductive and totally unnecessary costs of a 40 year occupation and aggressive settlement movement, Israel is actually a rather wealthy country in comparison to MANY other countries in the world, none of whom receive aid from us or anyone else. If Israel removed the settlements, many people who would NEVER visit it for tourism reasons or because of security concerns would start flooding the country. Tourism alone would make Israel very wealthy if the albatross of the settlements and occupation was removed from around its neck. Israel is also a major tech center, but many countries fear its insecurity and also the stigma of working with a nation engaging in a practice (settlements) that virtually the rest of the world has abandoned and abhors.

I am an ameircan of palestinian origin, 6 years a go I visited hebron/west bank where 200,000 palestinians and 150 israeli settlers guarded by hundreds of israeli soldiers live. While I was touring the old city a jewish settler kid approached me and spit at me, he stared at me in defiance tempting me to retaliate. I wanted to take the kid by the hand and explain what happened to his parents, if you think I could have done that, think a gain, becasue the second I lay my hand on him I would have been shot by the IDF - israeli terror forces - . Now, six years later, majority of palestinains living in the old city, moved out. After all how long can you put up with the daily humiliation, spitting, throwing trash on you and forcing you out of your home under the mighty IDF protection. Americans are good people and they need to visit th west bank and gaza to see the APARTHEID ISRALEI SYSTEM at work.
It is your decision you can enlighten your self by reading president Carter's book (PALESTINE PEACE NOT APARTHEID) or you can keep tuning in to the mind control and spin doctors of fox, cnn, etc..

There will be no peace unless the US forces Israel to negotiate. The Israeli position has not changed in 40 years. Israel wants all of the land and none of the people. Anything that can drag out the "process" is to the benefit of Israel (not the citizens of Israel, but the government of Israel). The Palestinians have been fooled with this "peace process" as an alternative to real negotiations for 40 years. The apartheid regime will not end unless the US demands it and demands that Israel respect international law. Which ,incidentally , will occur the same day that hell freezes over.

Oh please. Such naive drivel, regurgitated over and over and over. Sir, Hamas does NOT "understand" the "goodness" of a long term cease fire as you now peddle to your Western readers. They offer this empty ceasefire "hudna" to give them the time and opportunity to grow their strength, build and army and wait till the time is ripe to wage war and try to destroy Israel. They themselves have preached this to their Arab audiences for decades! Co-existance is not their goal. -- Extermination of Israel is. Do you not believe what Hamas itself advocates? I have frankly lost a lot, if not most, of my sympathy for the Palestinian Arabs, as have many other people at this point. You can only blow so many chances, so many times before it gets old. There are far more peoples in this world more deserving of our time, aid and attention, like the hundreds of thousands of black Africans being killed in in Darfur, the oppressed in Tibet, Iraqi refugees the stateless Kurds and many others. The horrendous deaths in Darfur, frankly, make the deaths over all the years of the Arab-Israeli conflict look like a hat dance. After the Arabs turned down the Clinton peace plan, that just blew it for me. If someone wants to wallow in his own hateful, pathetic mess, playing the hapless victim and repeating the same mis-steps over and over, year after year, you may never be able to help him. Until the Pales. Arabs get their acts together, we may have to accept that we in the West may not be able to do anything constructive. Let them help themselves. Can we stop the Sunnis from butchering the Shiites in their thousands-of years-old blood fued? Stupid people. So lets just move on. Next!

Until the Palestinians and Arab nations start teaching more about coexistance and peace, instead of martydom via suicide killings, hatred in their textbooks, and chants of death to Israel and America, I don't see how there will ever be peace. Israel will always be in a game trying to defend itself and Paelstinians will always be in on the attack. The ball is in the Palenstinians court - peace will come when they want it.

As long as most of the American government and its key advisors have dual loyalties to Israel and the USA there will never be any support for a solution which delivers anything like Justice to Palestine. WE are told that Israel will have to pay a big Price in a prisoner swap. Well given the hundreds of political prisoners it is holding without trial I would think they could have a fire sale and still have lots of bodies to interrogate.

The Arabs have their madmen, and the Israeli's, many of them descendants of the Holocaust survivors, are obviously paranoid about their security.

I don't have personal experience, but I've been told that Arabs and Jews lived in the region and got along reasonably well for 2000 years. This isn't a war about religion, it's a war about land. Of course the populace in Palestine has been poisoned by religion, and the Israeli's are falling into the hard line 'nationalist' camp who only believe success comes out of the barrel of a gun (thank Chairman Mao on that one). We cannot ignore the fact that when politics fail, and economics fail (for the Palestinians this is true), war becomes the next alternative.

The Israeli's have to take a chance on peace, it is as simple as that. As an American, a fair solution to this problem would do a lot to get Muslims in general to open their minds, vs. how so many see us as crusaders due to the Iraq catastrophe. We can influence the Israeli's and to H%^& with their lobby. We can't run the middle east, but with 80+ percent of the people there Sunni Muslims, the Saudi proposal of having the Arab states all recognize Israel in return for the west bank wouldd go a long way toward a political solution and hence peace (there will still be a lot of nuts to go around), setting an example for Muslim nations, and helping to extract us to some extent from this region.

By the way I'm nominally Jewish. I'm also concerned that with Bush's Christian Taliban Wannabees in this country, if they gain more power America will become a fountain of hatred for Jews who will be next in line after the Gays - if you make a pact with these extremist absolutist conservative Christians you make a pact with the devil, so where in the world do I and my family live. A real question, because I'm the person who told some Shas party (ultra-orthodox Jews) legislators there that they belong in the same box with Arafat, and one wonders if they are extensions of the current pope politically. Those people are proof of life after death, because they should have been gone eons ago.

No easy solutions, but dear Israel, I will not support the status quo. You've seen military force doesn't work personally, and just look at Iraq for another horrible example of the same thing.

So, you have an opportunity. I could always join the UU church ("the best of Jewish and Christian teaching"), or move to SW Canada. That's my solution. You have a choice, so go for it. You are not innocent.

so what exactly were the 'practical steps' that the palestinians were supposed to take?

how about recognizing israel? - nothing on this. all a long term ceasefire agreement will do is weaken's israel's military superiority vis a vis palestine. yes it is not even close, but what state would want to give up any ground to people who still view them as an enemy?

The solution to mid east conflicts is simple: the US should go neutral. In reality, is that possible?

So the Jews should withdraw from the West Bank? What happened when they withdrew from Gaza? Rockets, rockets, and more rockets. What dreamland do you live in Haim?

Peace can be achieved by two parties really wanting it and willing to negotiate with each other their respective claims. At this time they are too far apart to reach a minimum agreement. What is accomplishable is an agreement to start changing the educational programs, aggresive press and incitment to violence and hatred in mosques and Palestinian and other Arab country schools. Furthermore, only negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis count. Foreign pressures on Israel which call for suicidal commitments will not be heeded. So, I believe that Mr. Malka can return in five years from now for a rerun of his article. I don't think that much will have changed.

Haim Malka sounds reasonable - but it's the same thing that has been going on for 40 years - people who are outside the Middle East encouraging reconciliation, and the people that are there are urging each other to fight. The Arab League has proposed an reasonable compromise that is compliant with U.N. resolutions and the wishes of the majority of the people in the Middle East. Iran has said that it will accept a two-state solution if the Palestinians choose to accept it. If Israelis want to survive more than a few years more as a state, they will jump at the chance. With the U.S. tied up in a hopeless war, this might be the time for a final status solution. If the Israelis now show the generosity of spirit of an Einstein or a Rabin, they can build a Middle East worthy of the Prophets. If they choose to maintain and expand Jabotinsky's Iron Wall, it may be 5, 50 or 500 years, but sooner or later demographics and democracy will overwhelm them. Small steps won't work. The Middle East needs vision to avert a greater catastrophe.

It doesn't matter. The Israeli-Palestinian crises will be solved naturally by the demographics. From my last trip to israel, I saw a nation increasingly turninig towards religous fundamentalism, nationalism, and arabic. From what I saw, Arab jews are Arabs, speak arabic, keep company with other arabs, and increasingly hostile towards the dominant Ashkenazi jews of Europe who they percieve as "non-jewish" and arrogant. Everybody knows that Israel is not one nation and the rate at which European/American/Russian jews are emigrating, and the rate at which Arab jews and muslims are reproducing, the country will not doubt be Arabic within your lifetime. Israel has become an ego issue with pro-Israeli/ anti-arab Americans but there is little they can do to keep Israel a western nation

When the time comes when American politicians stop pandering to every possible constituency, this 40 year nightmare can end. In the meantime Haim Malka's suggestion is sound. Let's hope that the next administration will be an honest and fair broker for peace.

So, to summarize, Mr. Malka says that band aid's can be useful. If the Israeli's trade one illegally captured soldier, captured in contravention to established international law, for hundreds of Palestinians, convicted in a court of law of a variety of heinous crimes, there will be peace. If Israel does this, then walks away from the "occupied territories," which presumably include the Western Wall, Chevron, and other areas that are at the heart of Jewish identity, then there will be increased good will.

Wow. How was the kool-aid?

Furthermore, proposing as a solution an end to US economic assistance to Israel, as a "starve the beast" technique, is hilarious. So, if we economically cripple Israel, they will be forced to take their citizenry out of the "West Bank" and everyone will be happy! I mean, does anyone think for one second that if Israel no longer had a military advantage that it would not be destroyed?

What world do we live in?

No one ever mentions this, but why can't there be Palestinian Jews? I know the settlements have been ruled illegal, but the reality is that there are 250,000 or so people living on the West Bank and many of them are there only because they were promised a cheap home. Compare that with the roughly 4 million Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel has about 1 million Israeli Arabs, who have Israeli citizenship. Those Jews living in what becomes Palestine should become Palestinian citizens. If they want to keep their Israeli citizenship, they must move back to Israel. Do this, and the problem of settlers will take care of itself (as I bet most of them will want to remain Israeli). And those few who do stay for whatever reason, will form part of a vibrant, multicultural Palestinian society.

The best thing that can happen for the Israelis and Palestinians is for the Saudi King to recognize Israel. And then stop the diatribe of incendiary misinformation that they have pushed for decades (the Nina Shea article on Saudi textbooks from last year puts it all in perspective).

This accomplishes multiple things. It removes much of the threat Israel sees from the Arab world and pushes the Palestinians to give up on the idea of that Israel won't exist one day. If Israel believes its future is acceptance based instead of military power based, then it can negotiate things away without feeling existential risks. Much easier to negotiate if you believe you'll be OK at the end of the day. Better for the Palestinians because the hope that Israel will disappear, as is in the Hamas charter, needs only to be seriously believed by small portions of the population for that portion to keep the war alive.

A Saudi move also removes fuel from the fire. Unteaching bigotry takes time and it should have begun long ago.

A Saudi move also gives the Palestinians a basis to rebuild a society that is currently so distorted. Pride in suicide bombers is not healthy. Pride in peacemaking is. Pride in democracy is. Pride in building up your country is.

A real Saudi move, one that is truly courageous, is the real start to this process.

Well, another testosterone challenged Chamberlain solution. Sure, they blow us up, and, we "deal" with them. BiBi will deal with them.

To many actors in the region don't want peace.

The Palestinians are being played by the Arab nations and now people are just totally fed up.

For Isreal, they just want to be accepted by its neighbors. Unfortunately that will never happen in my lifetime.

Look at it this way, in the medieval times countries went to war for hundreds of years (England-France) they just had pauses between battles and rulers. Same as now.

looks like the interested readers are not buying the shopworn
excuses for continued war in Palestine.

Bush I attempted to cut off ALL aid to Israel, military and Foreign aid, because he correctly observed that it was ridiculus that the US stand in opposition to the Settlements and the Occupation that protects them while paying for them at the same time.

Unfortunately, political pressure caused him to reduce the cuts to a level that became meaningless.

We veto UN resolutions that would allow for the introduction of a UN peace keeping force that would replace the occupation and help keep the Israelis to keep their constant promises to stop expanding the ever expanding (expanding at this very moment, both in size and population) settlements.

Bill Clinton said (in 2002 or 2003) said on teh Charlie Rose show that the israeli palestinian conflict is the "philosophical underpinning of terrorist recruitment and funding in the middle east". Certainly, it could be said that this means that we have been financially supporting and diplomatically covering for a morally bankrupt program which eventually led to 9/11 and the war on terror.

Mr. Malka, You are absolutely wrong. There is a great deal that we can do. In fact, the US is uniquely capable of ending this conflict by cutting off all aid to Israel and removing the constant diplomatic cover we afford Israel in the UN.

If stopped covering the Huge economic shortfall caused by the cruhing costs of teh occuaption and the settlements, Israels political systenm would take care of the problem very quickly. Those settlers, who many Israelis (the majority) resent for putting the children of Israel in constant danger as they are commissioned by the military to stand in big circle around these morally bankrupt, fanatical reprobates in order to pretect them from the people whose land they have been stealing in increasing increments for the last 4 decades.

If the Israeli people began to feel the true economic costs that their actions ( or lack thereof) are creating, they would send the settlers and the army that protects them packing in very short order, in the same way that south Africa changed only after the US finally began to join in the boycotts and divestment of the apartheid government.

We could send in a UN peace keeping force to assist in keeping order. They would stay as long as it took for the Palestinians to stabilize their new nation and increase security to acceptable levels. The UN would also help in keeping the IDF and Settlers OUT of Palestine.

We could offer to help pay for the return of refugees to the west bank or gaza, and build them housing to make reparations for the homes they lost decades ago in Israel proper.

There would be some increase in violence for a while and there woud be costs, but it would be a tiny price to pay in comparison to the trillions of dollars and untold thousands of lives saved by putting an end to the engine that has primarily driven middle eastern terrorism for the last 4 decades.

But before any of ths is likely to happen, we must label AIPAC as an agent of a foreign nation. They have undermined the peace process for decades. Furthermore, two of their top officals will soon go on trial for espionage agaisnt the US for takng classified US intel on Iran to contacts in Israel.

I am tired of hearing how Palestinians want to drive Jews into the sea. Its crap. Israel has the army. Israel has the weapons, cluster bombs, nukes, aircraft, and soldiers. If anyone was going to drive anyone into a sea, its Israel. While sad, all the Israelis deaths in this conflict in the last twenty years, have not amounted to 5k. Palestinians deaths and injured are in the tens of thousands.
Peace is available if the politicians would get off their a@#.
Abbas of the Palestinians doesnt want peace. Why should he? Hes making millions by stealing from foreign funds. Olmert cant do peace because his coaltition is full of right wing extremists. Its like asking Bush to approve gay rights when he has evangelicals in his cabinet.
Peace? Yes, the people want it. I lived there during Oslo and hung out with many Israelis in Jerusalem. Everybody realizes this is politics bullcrap and a solution must be found. But until America takes the lead, pushes them together or threatens someone with cutting off aid, peace will never happen.
Bush doesnt have the political capital for anything. I dont even think he knows how to spell peace.

I am not sure how there can be peace when all Palestinians want is Jews driven out to sea and all the land belonging to them.
Arafat had a great deal to get peace but of course they do not want to give Jews even an inch of land to live on.

The reason there is no peace between Israel and
Palestine is that it is far too easy for a politician to make a nice living in both countries by being against any peace. In other words, it is on the people of both countries to stop the destructive
madness.

The article regurgitates all the excuses from the history of non-peace aims. International law is set by the UN on this issue for over 50 years. Sole reason it is unapplied is USA "friendship of Israel" a.k.a. as total USA disregard for international law and human rights issues of the Palestinian population.

Until the time that the USA decides that peace in the Israel-Palastine issue is a necessity to be achieved in short order, til then nothing will happen. Israel is certain of US backing in whatever steps she decides.

Perhaps Opec can force the issue - oil boycott of the USA until such time that Uncle Sam decides to be serious, and impose the UN resolutions on Israel - no Israeli consent, no USA Aid, and total trade sanctions [enforced by the USA NAVY - they have too many useless warships threatening sovereign states, it is time that the ships enforce international law.

I am aware that the the USA will not force the Israeli issue at least not til the next president assumes office [probably not even than]. Without USA decision there shall be no peace.