Most of the western audiance and mostly liberals in Turkey ignore the fact that although it is a muslim society, Turkish people did not admire to strict and radical orders of muslim way of living and rather chose a way to enjoy their religion without any exaggeration and bubble.

It is a pitty that most of the Turkish people is fooled by media, liberal businessmen and political promise on better economic expectations.

There is no stop for the fundementalists. You give them an inch and they will want a mile.If they are so religious then they should obey everthing in Koran.For example in one of the verses of Koran it states that the muslims must not make trade or friends with cristians nor jews.(God knows why?)But the AKP government of Turkey is in full cooperation with both economically and military wise.They are not very sincere, all they want is to make women their slaves.Keeping half of the citizens under lock is a disgrace and will keep the country behind.Mr Domanic cannot realize this.Shame for such a well educated fellow !

ı am a turk and % 85 percent of turkish people want to have right to take headscarves

ı am a turk and % 85 percent of turkish people want to have right to take headscarves

ı am a turk and % 85 percent of turkish people want to have right to take headscarves

And Women in Islam

Islam gives men and women different roles, and equity between the two is laid down in the Qur’an and the example of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings. A marriage gift is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband's. Both men and women are expected to dress in a way which is modest and dignified. “The Messenger of God (peace be upon him) said: "The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife."”

Violence of any kind towards women and forcing them against their will for anything is not allowed. A Muslim marriage is a simple, legal agreement in which either partner is free to include conditions. Marriage customs thus vary widely from country to country. Divorce is not common, although it is acceptable as a last resort. According to Islamic teachings, a Muslim girl cannot be forced to marry against her will.

The religion of Islam was revealed for all societies and all times and so it accommodates widely differing social requirements. Circumstances may warrant the taking of another wife, but the right is granted, according to the Qur'an only on condition that the husband is scrupulously fair. No woman can be forced into this kind of marriage if they do not wish it.

Polygamy is neither mandatory, nor encouraged, but merely permitted. Images of "sheikhs with harems" are not consistent with Islam, as a man is only allowed at most four wives only if he can fulfill the stringent conditions of treating each fairly and providing each with separate housing etc. Permission to practice polygamy is not associated with mere satisfaction of passion. It is rather associated with compassion toward widows and orphans. It was the Qur'an that limited and put conditions on the practice of polygamy among the Arabs, who had as many as ten or more wives and considered them "property". It is both honest and accurate to say that it is Islam which regulated this practice, limited it, made it more humane and instituted equal rights and status for all wives. What the Qur'anic decrees amount to, taken together is discouragement of polygamy unless necessity for it exists. It is also evident that the general trend in Islam is monogamy and not polygamy. It is a very small percentage of Muslims that practice polygamy over the world. However, permission to practice limited polygamy is only consistent with Islam's realistic view of the nature of man and woman and of various social needs, problems and cultural variations. It also is the frank and straightforward approach of Islam in dealing with practical problems. Rather than requiring hypocritical and superficial compliance, Islam delves deeper into the problems of individuals and societies, and provides for legitimate and clean solutions which are far more beneficial than would be the case if they were ignored. There is no doubt that the second wife legally married and treated kindly is better off than a mistress without any legal rights or expermanence.

Muslims respect and love Jesus, upon him be peace, and await his Second Coming. They consider him a great messenger from God to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as 'Jesus', but always adds the phrase 'upon him be peace' (abbreviated as (u) here). The Qur'an confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled 'Mary'), and Mary is considered amongst the best and most noble women. The Qur'an describes the Annunciation as follows: «"Behold!" the Angel said, "God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and shall be of the righteous." She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?" He said: "Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, "Be!" and it is" (Qur'an, Chapter 3: Verses 42-47) »

Jesus (u) was born miraculously through the same power which had brought Adam (u) into being without a father: «"Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." (Qur'an, Chapter 3: Verses 59)» During his prophetic mission Jesus (u) performed many miracles. The Quran tells us that he said: «"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by God's leave." (Qur'an, Chapter 3: Verses 49)» Neither Muhammad (pbuh) not Jesus (u) came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in One God brought by earlier prophets, but instead to confirm and renew it.

In the Qur’an Jesus (u) is reported as saying that he came: «"To attest the law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey Me. (Qur'an, Chapter 3: Verses 50)» The Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: “"Whoever believes there is no god but God, alone without partner, that Muhammad(pbuh) is His messenger, that Jesus is the servant and messenger of God, His word breathed into Mary and a spirit emanating from Him, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven. "(Hadith related by Bukhari) ”

Ann,

Thank you for your tyrannical reference to irrelevant religious history and your carefully chosen passages to discredit all Christian and Jewish values toward women. And what a surprise to find how noble Islam is toward women in contrast! :) Apparently, Islam subjugates its women to protect them. In other words, they can never be more than just women so let's keep them down as they are.

I hope many will take the time to evaluate your logic or as some will say lack of logic. I wish I were a playwrite because in my opinion it would make a hilarious satire for the theater.

There is no better example of why the separation of church and state and religious freedom are so important as human values.

Because I believe in freedom of worship, I could care less whether you or anyone else cover your head, feet, or any other part of yourself. I don't even care why you think it's necessary. What I take issue with is that God has anything to do with it or that he mandates that all women in society must be forced à la Iranian Morality Police to conform.

Religious freedom means that you can wear your hijab, become a nun, build your church or mosque, and worship as you wish BUT you can't stiffle the rights of others to worship as they choose. In a healthy society I believe that the state has laws to guarantee that you don't smother the rights of others.

Hopefully, permitting the turban to Turkish university students will permit them to choose and that it won't encourage the radical subjucation of women by local Turkish fundamentalists (something all too common in Islam). Also, hopefully now that the Turkish politicians have opportunistically removed the turban ban to prepare for the next local elections, someone will get on with promoting a better education for Turkish men and women.

Because I'm an optomist, I'll hope for the best in the Turkish situation but it's a good reality check to understand that people of your persuasion exist and are actually taken seriously by some.

Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

A good example is in advertising, where a woman's body is used to sell products. Women are constantly degraded, and subjected to reveal more and more of themselve.

Feeling that one has to meet the impossible male standards of beauty is tiring and often humiliating.Women are not going to achieve equality with the right to bear their breasts in public, as some people would like to have you believe. That would only make us party to our own objectification. True equality will be had only when women don't need to display themselves to get attention and won't need to defend their decision to keep their bodies to themselves

A better ending to a poem:

Be free my sister Emma
Escape from your deep mire
Know that your dedication to God
Has nothing to do with your hijab

Avoid all those selfish controllers
Who try to keep you down
Walk down the street with dignity
Take pride in who YOU are

Strength lies in freedom
Be yourself and not another
Speak and interact as an equal
To all of those who smother

You’re a smart girl Emma
Make your own choice to veil or not
Don’t blindly follow all around
DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD

To IDOLATOR, I think your argument does not fly well. You think if a few people commit crimes or killings that makes the whole religion evil.

Remember WWII, when Christians went on rampage and killed over 30 million people in just 6 years. Does that make Christianity evil, NO.

Adding WWI and all other conflicts in the 20th century, Christians killed over 60 million people. If we use your convoluted logic then Christianity takes the blame. No sir.

Anna,

Yes,you are right.
*True equality* will be had only when women wear black wrap and burqa.
*True equality* will be had when *two women equals one man* come.
*True equality* will be had when the order of *I divorce you*(but woman has no such a right) comes.
*True Equality* will be had when *man takes four women*,then what shall you call those four women ? *concubines*,*mistress* or *sex-slave butterflies* ???

Woman in the Desert Rules is second(even third) class citizen.This is the degradation and humiliation.
What was the men and women equality in Ottoman Empire during 620 years.
How many woman sultan was there in Ottoman ? In England,Mary Tudor was Queen in 1553 and later Elizabeth I(45 years)
How many woman high-level officer was there in Ottoman ?
How many muslim woman professor,jornalist,lawyer,doctor,businesswoman were there in Ottoman ?

Subjugation is not and can not be *woman right*

Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

A good example is in advertising, where a woman's body is used to sell products. Women are constantly degraded, and subjected to reveal more and more of themselve.

Feeling that one has to meet the impossible male standards of beauty is tiring and often humiliating.Women are not going to achieve equality with the right to bear their breasts in public, as some people would like to have you believe. That would only make us party to our own objectification. True equality will be had only when women don't need to display themselves to get attention and won't need to defend their decision to keep their bodies to themselves.

Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.

A good example is in advertising, where a woman's body is used to sell products. Women are constantly degraded, and subjected to reveal more and more of themselve.

Feeling that one has to meet the impossible male standards of beauty is tiring and often humiliating.Women are not going to achieve equality with the right to bear their breasts in public, as some people would like to have you believe. That would only make us party to our own objectification. True equality will be had only when women don't need to display themselves to get attention and won't need to defend their decision to keep their bodies to themselves.

Freedom for headscarf really means freedom for MEN to supress WOMEN, pure and simple.

Anyone thinks the masses of girls (oops, I meant to say independent women) that now are clamoring for headscarves are only seeking freedom is by definition too late: That train left the station during those girls' pre-puberty years.

There is an implicit falsehood in the so-called freedom to wearing the headscarf. First of all, a Muslim that believes she is by definition compelled to wear a headscarf (or hijab, burka, or whatever) -- she is NOT exercising freedom. She is simply bowing to a strict (and exagerated) interpretation, courtesy of male imams.

So, countering one kind of opression (male interpreted Islam) by another (state secularism) is what may be happening. Then, how to break the stale mate? Which side would educated, intelligent people should take, if any?

I submit that Muslims are less free to live Islam freely under an Islamic system. If the system is based on Islam, it means it is necessarily based on ONE (read narrow, strict) interpretation of it. A secular system, on the other hand, does not care what shade of Muslim a person is. Secular system only cares that you submit to reason, including the ability to make compromises to, for example, seek higher education. Also, the secular system seeks such compromises ONLY in publically financed/managed spaces, not in the mosque or even streets of Turkey. So much for opression.

Another way to say this: Do girls (by definition NOT women) REALLY have the FREEDOM to decide if they want not to cover their heads? Or, are they subject to the pressures coming from parents, neighbors, teachers, leaders, etc.? In reality, girls are trained (re brainwashed) to act and dress a certain way.

The phrase "peer pressure" is a gross understatement. The reality is girls are by in large pressured (i.e. told) to cover their heads. They are told they are at the root of male misbehavior and temptation of all sorts. Boys go free (and enjoy freedom) and girls pay the price.

Anyone who says otherwise has been living under one huge rock for the last 1400 years.

I couldn't agree more.

Mr. Domanic, this is a very astute and cogent article. Yet, it with regret, that I must disagree with your supposition. The fact that the head scarf has been kept out of the universities and public arenas, is a very well founded and astute piece of legislation. The head scarf worn by women who keep halal, is not a cultural growth, but is a pure piece of religious and political oppression. Women must wear them, not only to please the imams sensibilities but also as a sign of ownership by their husbands. Kamal Ataturk, rightly decided that women must be free from the oppression of the religious fanatics that were at that time prevalent in the society. To now say, that it is a matter of religious freedom, to change the Constitution of Turkey, so that religious fundamentalists can enforce the wearing of hi jab, is not only oppressive but a completely and utterly spurious argument. To also say that should the far right religious fundamentalists try to enforce the rules of their interpretation of the Koran, and deny freedom of the press and many other of the freedoms guaranteed under a democratic society, that you would then be out protesting in the streets, would be way too late for any change to occur. The time for protestation is now, not later when the religionists of an Islam, that is antithetical to democracy, have taken over and changed the political life of Turkey. Please understand that what those secularist members of the Turkish state stand against is the gradual and inevitable encroachment of the freedoms that were won by Kamal Ataturk. Should you one day wake up and not be able to speak and write about any disagreement with the religious fundamentalist faction of your government, that day you will know the truth and the truth will not set you free. For you will be in the grasp and chains of an medieval system, that will not brook any dissent or deviance from their norms. I, hope that, you will stand with those who are against this gradual encroachment of an outdated and too-long lived interpretation of a system of oppression that has not recognized the value of human life and the liberty that all mankind craves and desires.

Of all the countries I have been to, I have found Turkey to be the most beautiful and fascinating. It has a rich history, culture and people. If you ever have the chance to visit Turkey (Turkiye) do so.
One of the things I found most fascinating is how integrated the women in Turkey are. It is very common to find women who wear headscarves friends with those who do not. Even in America where we feel live in the most open, free and liberated society in the world, it is rare to see groups as well integrated (particularly along the religious). In the US, everyone sticks with their own kind so to speak. Though a hard-line religious stance could grow in the more conservative eastern part of Turkey, I doubt it will ever take hold in the west or south. The country simply has too much to lose to become an Iranian type Islamic state. Let us not forget, we too in the US live with the threat of religion impeding on our liberties. Christians in this country are just as dangerous as the Muslims in Turkey. The key for Turkey, US and all countries is to allow the freedom of religion without demanding that everyone be governed by it.
In my opinion, all ultra-religious leaders are a sheep in wolves clothing. They promise the grace of God (whichever that may be), but are only looking to conquere and control the people as they see things. Thankfully Turkey has the military and Ataturk's legacy to keep the government balanced. Too often America's Christians use the founders Christianity as a reason to pull the country into more conservative "Christian" beliefs (racism, sexism, homophobia, pro-"life" i.e. pro-war, unfunded health and social programs, but no abortion). I say "Christian" because true Christians don't believe in this type of bigotry and hatred, just as true Muslims do not believe in the Taliban brand of Islam, but rather both distort religion to push their ignorant, small minded, and cowardly ideas.
I understand the idea that there will be more pressure from parents to have girls wear headscarves, particularly in more conservative areas, but that is why Turkey should push for more liberties and withhold them in the sense of liberty. If you push for more liberities, then a culture that oppresses women and forces them into the ideal woman for conservative men will be harder to take root.

Neither peer or parental pressure is going to force woman to wear the scarf as rape will. By passing such a law you will have added to the normal supply of sick people ready to rape a large group of sick people who will consider this to be their religious duty to punish the miscreants. Any judge punishing such a rapist will have to face a lynch mob of traditionalists.

The problem is universal under these circumstances.

Not only is enticement still the favorite defense in rape cases in the US, but how many murderers were unleashed by the abortion debate?

A giant step backward for Turkey.

Neither peer or parental pressure is going to force woman to wear the scarf as rape will. By passing such a law you will have added to the normal supply of sick people ready to rape a large group of sick people who will consider this to be their religious duty to punish the miscreants. Any judge punishing such a rapist will have to face a lynch mob of traditionalists.

The problem is universal under these circumstances.

Not only is enticement still the favorite defense in rape cases in the US, but how many murderers were unleashed by the abortion debate?

A giant step backward for Turkey.

ALL MUSLIM BELIEF, RELIGIOUS OBLIGATIONS, LIFE-STYLES, CULTURAL DRESSING LIKE GHOSTS (DRESSING THE GHOST-LIKE "BURGAS"), FILTHY-APPEARANCE HEADSCARVES, CHILDREN'S SEXUAL ORGANS DESTRUCTIONS, BEHEADING, HANGING, TERRORIZING, MURDERING FOR FAMILY PRIDES, AND ALL SORTS OF KILLING THEMSELVES ARE THE ODOUS THINKING AND BELIEF CREATED BY CRAZY MUSLIMS AND THEIR MURDEROUS RELIGION AND CULTURE!
IT'S REALLY HORRIBLE TO THINK ABOUT MUSLIM WRONGFUL BELIEF AND BARBAROUS, BLOODY CULTURE!

Georgiason says: 'The main lesson we Americans should draw from the Turkish experience, especially when it is combined with the experience of West European governments with their Muslim populations, is the danger of allowing a too great an expansion of the Muslim population in the United States. We are creating a big black hole, which will eventually begin devouring everything in its path.' --- Might not a better lesson be that religions (regardless of the variety) are inherently hostile to secular societies? America is not threatened by Islam but by its homegrown Christian political and social circles bent on turning the US over to their own version of God's Reign. Turkey is simply the canary in the mine. When people are frightened and lost, they turn from scientific objectivity, rational political discourse, and tolerance to 'faith' and all the fanaticism involved in that very scary word...

With daily mass killings of innocents carried out by Muslims all over the world, who in theie right mind would think that Islam is a religion of peace of even a religion?

Remember all the plots that have been stopped by the authorities, otherwise we would all be dead.

Islam trumps in turkey and any where Islam has significant percent of Muslims. Islam and democracy can't coexist. So democracy can't really exist in a Muslim country.

West has won over communism but west may not win against Islam unless it recognizes Islam for what it is, a totalitarian idealogy like communism. Islam flurishes in the west using liberties the west grants all citizens. But if Islam becomes majority there will be no equal rights non Muslims. All non Muslims may become dimmies.

People who call others "evil" are equally extremists. I am wondering if nuns were barred from wearing their hear covering? Or the secularists are as offensive to nuns as well?

I feel, if Turkish majority wants head scarf they should have it if not let them get rid of it. Don't give a minor issue a national importance. If secularism is threatened by head scarf, is it then a viable system?

Turkey has gone a long way since 1920s to change its identity and Europeans have not accepted them as long as they Muslims. Perhaps Europe wants Turkey to be a non-muslim society. Is it price worth paying? Turks have to decide not others.

Outsiders, please keep hands off of Turkey otherwise we will drive them to extremism.

Females have been brainwashed since birth to accept the traditions of covering up their body!I saw first hand small children wearing full length chadors (sp?) - which also covered their heads! and this was in about 90 degree heat!
It's absoultely rediculous that these children are indoctinated at such a young early age - hence the brainwashing!
Female bodies should be celebrated - and if the religion dictates females covering their bodies up - then it's an archaic religion.
You don't see MALES having to cover their bodies up do you?
DOUBLE STANDARDS in my opinion!!

I don't understand - why don't the people Of Turkey just reject Islam altogether and adopt Christianity? Why bother to call yourself Muslim, if you reject all of the tenants of Islam? Pay attention to the real reasons that it has been difficult to establish the Sharia in other countries:the West has continually launched covert and overt operations to create distrust and confusion, and they have had a measure of success. God bless those in Turkey who understand that the Plan of God is the best of Plans, and no form of secular government can prevent that Plan from being implemented.

no no no

(By Fahim Firfiray)

Emma is a lawyer
And so is Aisha too
Colleagues going into court
At circa half past two

Its 1 O'Clock right now
They grab a bite before the trial
They chat about this and that
Conversing with a smile

Aisha is in full hijab
With a loose all over suit
Emma's in her business wear
With accessories taboot

Emma's really quite bemused
At Aisha's godly ways
She looks Aisha in the eyes
And very firmly says

You're a smart girl Aisha
Why do you wear that across your hair?
Subjugated by "man"-kind
An object of despair

Take it off my sister
Let your banner be unfurled
Don't blindly follow all around
DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD

Aisha is amazed
But not the least bit shy
She bravely puts her milkshake down
And gives Emma the reply

My dear sister Emma,
Why do you dress the way you do?
The skirt you're wearing round your waist,
Is it really you?

Now that we've sat down
I see you tug it across your thighs,
Do you feel ashamed?
Aware of prying eyes?

I see the way you're sitting,
Both legs joined at the knees,
Who forces you to sit like that?
Do you feel at ease?

I'll tell you who obliges you,
To dress the way you do,
Gucci, Klein, and St. Laurent
All have designs on you!

In the main, its men my friend,
Who dictate the whims of fashion,
Generating all the garb,
To incite the basest passion

"Sex Sells" there is no doubt
But who buys with such great haste,
The answer is likes like you,
Because they want to be embraced...

They want to be accepted,
On a level playing field
Sure, with brain and intellect
But with body parts revealed

Intelligence and reason
Are useful by and by
But if you want to make a mark
Stay appealing to the eye

You claim your skirt is office like
A business dress of sorts
Would we not laugh at Tony Blair?
If he turned up in shorts?

His could be the poshest of pants
Pinstripe from Saville Rowe
But walking round like that my friend
He'd really have to go

Why do you douse yourself in creams
To make your skin so milky?
Why do you rip off all your hair
To keep your body silky?

A simple shower's all you need
To stay respectable and clean
The time and money that you spend
Is really quite obscene

Why do you wake up at dawn,
To apply a firm foundation,
Topped with make up and the like,
In one chaotic combination?

And if you should have to leave the house
Devoid of this routine
Why do you feel insecure
That you should not be seen?

Be free my sister Emma
Escape from your deep mire
Don hijab today my friend
And all Islam's attire

Avoid all those sickly stares
Or whistles from afar
Walk down the street with dignity
Take pride in who you are

Strength lies in anonymity
Be a shadow in the crowd
Until you speak and interact
When your voice will carry loud

You're a smart girl Emma
Wear this across your hair
Don't be subjugated by "man"-kind
An object of despair

To use your very words my friend
Let your banner be unfurled
Don't blindly follow all around
DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD

Turkey is not an ally as long as they trend towards Islamic fundamentalism. The pressure put on them by the Arabs and Persians is more than they are willing to fight. Historically they are anti-Western.

Every Muslim women and specially in Muslim Nation
headscarves is religious obligation.!!!!

Well Mustafa, what you say is true, especially about secularists not seeing "the future" that would come soon and not marching against inequality etc...

But there is one thing you're missing... The problem is not about ban or freedom. The only thing that matters is to keep up with old topics, so that the whole nation forgets about the present. People are still getting burned in Europe and guess what? It is off the headlines already in Turkish media. What we talk is headscarves arguement. The secularists? Well as one of them, I still do not agree with you. I think people should see the people, not the ones that are talking by their rights. Because we did not want them to talk for us, we did not choose them... We did not have another choice, so they held the secularists flag.

Tracking Mr. Domanic's core argument is somewhat difficult, so let me give my brief assessment of what's going on in Turkey, which admittedly may only skim the surface of the issues.

After WWI ended the Ottoman Empire and took the Caliphate with it, Kamal Attaturk established Turkey as a secular nation. As a result of that basic decision, Turkey finally emerged in recent years as a full-blown democracy. No country is perfect, but overall, Turks enjoy the blessings of liberty and civil rights such as freedom of expression. They also enjoy the prosperity that goes along with democracy and free enterprise.

But Turkey's population is predominantly Muslim. And Islam in regard to democracy and personal freedoms is like a big black hole: it sucks up everything within its reach and imprisons it in the vortex, never to be seen or heard from again. Islam is never content to accept democracy and freedom. Islam sees such things as alien to its very soul. Islam sees itself as at war with democracy, and for Islam, it's a sum-zero game. There must be a winner and a loser. The black hole at the heart of Islam must suck up and imprison every aspect of modernity and democracy.

What we are witnessing in Turkey is the inevitable expansion of that black hole. Even after 90 years of secularism, modernity and democracy are too weak to escape its grasp.

The Turkish people are now doing something that we Westerners find inexplicable. They are voluntarily surrendering their freedoms and their democracy. They are, in increasing numbers, showing their willingness to sacrifice their rights on the altar of Islam. The Turks, with eyes wide open, are re-establishing a 7th century theocracy to rule over them. The religious mentality once more triumphs over secularism and rationality.

Outsiders, in the end, will be unable to do much to reverse this trend. The main lesson we Americans should draw from the Turkish experience, especially when it is combined with the experience of West European governments with their Muslim populations, is the danger of allowing a too great an expansion of the Muslim population in the United States. We are creating a big black hole, which will eventually begin devouring everything in its path.

By the way, if you want to understand the real views of the AKP, you just need to read their own media. To summarize it in a few words, you will find the following almost on daily or weakly basis:
- support for suicide bombers
- anti-semitism
- anti-US, which extends to expressing joy at the news of another killed US soldier
- admiration for Iran

So, this is the true face of AKP. Its leaders are just too smart to show it in public. They are funded by this same media and brought to power by the followers of that same media.

The article is good up to a point. But then shifts into naivity again. The peer pressure the author has referred is much more serious than he thinks. There are many parts in Istanbul and in most other cities, where women will be treated as prostitutes if they don't wear a headscarf.
This was not the case only 5 years ago. Such people are gradually forced to cover their heads.
Also, he has not mentioned anything about the top appointment policies of the AKP government. It is based on 1 principle: you have to belong to one of the still illegal Islamic organizations (named tarikats) and your wife has to have a veil.
I think this provided enough reason to march in the streets, though some people such as the author will decide to march only when they completely lose their freedoms.

The article is good up to a point. But then shifts into naivity again. The peer pressure the author has referred is much more serious than he thinks. There are many parts in Istanbul and in most other cities, where women will be treated as prostitutes if they don't wear a headscarf.
This was not the case only 5 years ago. Such people are gradually forced to cover their heads.
Also, he has not mentioned anything about the top appointment policies of the AKP government. It is based on 1 principle: you have to belong to one of the still illegal Islamic organizations (named tarikats) and your wife has to have a veil.
I think this provided enough reason to march in the streets, though some people such as the author will decide to march only when they completely lose their freedoms.

The article is good up to a point. But then shifts into naivity again. The peer pressure the author has referred is much more serious than he thinks. There are many parts in Istanbul and in most other cities, where women will be treated as prostitutes if they don't wear a headscarf.
This was not the case only 5 years ago. Such people are gradually forced to cover their heads.
Also, he has not mentioned anything about the top appointment policies of the AKP government. It is based on 1 principle: you have to belong to one of the still illegal Islamic organizations (named tarikats) and your wife has to have a veil.
I think this provided enough reason to march in the streets, though some people such as the author will decide to march only when they completely lose their freedoms.

Mr. Domanic is a naive young man… He is closing his ayes and running to a disaster which was happened more or less same way in Iran some years ago. To bend under pressure is easy. Main question is how many Turks have guts to no to this terrible situation.

The big, fairly new mosque in the center of Anakara is the symbol of Turkey's capital. No image could be more indicative of Islam's greater influence on the country. Before the mosque was built, maybe twenty or so years ago, the symbol of Ankara, as many still know, was a ceremonial bronze object, from an ancient Anatolian site (Hittite?), which is probably a finial for a ceremonial staff. It shows three three-dimensional stags facing forward, surrounded by a wreath. A giant replica of this 'heathen' object can still be seen in a major square between the old and new parts of Anakra. Up the hill, directly on line with the square, the giant mosque can be seen. It dominates much of the view of Ankara. . Over recent years, new mosques have sprung up all over Turkey, ofen with thriving commercial shops in the basement to generate cash for the mosque. The one in Ankara has basement shops: this combination of religion and commerce is, to my mind, emblematic of the AK Party. With or without headscarves, all women are entitled to a university education. On the other hand, many Turks have good reason to be wary of the AK Party.

Turks are in Denial?

Do the Egyptians know about that? My god, it's like an invasion!

So, you just told us that in a secular country, there are religious study lessons in schools? Typically Turkish!

Then you say that secularists want to be democrats but force their way on issues? and there is censorship on TV and Internet? And that neither the secularists and the religious politicos are really aware of their own history or the history of their neighbour (Iran) where at least half of words in vocabulary of Turks comes from...? AND you guys want to be in the same club as Denmark, Sweden and Germany?

It has been a while since you Turks had a civil war....about 30 years.....looks like another is looming!

I think you are a idiot!!!

There is no secularism in Turkey but pure fascism. Here you have an ideology interested in women's clothes and nothing more. Up to 2002, the Per Capita of the Turk was 2,000$, what a joke! For 80 years, they have been arguing about clothes as the world moves on to create better countries and systems. Turks have always been "secular" in the true sense of the word but not "un-Islamic" as Kemalism demands. Secularists should give rights to Kurdish, Alevis, and many other people. It is not the AKP which created the fascist constitution that suffocates the Turkish people to date. Turkey should stop engaging in endless edifying jokes about clothes and should put its house in order. There is a power struggle going in Turkey and not about secularism.

Niels Kadritzke summarizes the whole struggle:

"Headscarves, generals, and Turkish democracy."

http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2008-02-01-kadritzke-en.html

Turkey's Islamists are winning the battle of minds and hearts and the secularists want to impose their version secularism on others. Let this be a contest of ideas and let secularists try to win people to their sides.

That is democracy. Using suspicion and bigotary to ban other people from practicing their peronal beliefs is as evil as communism was in Soviet Union.

Turkey's Islamists are winning the battle of minds and hearts and the secularists want to impose their version secularism on others. Let this be a contest of ideas and let secularists try to win people to their sides.

That is democracy. Using suspicion and bigotary to ban other people from practicing their peronal beliefs is as evil as communism was in Soviet Union.

Turkish secularists and army have two choice,become a part of real democratic socity or join,Egypt,Aljeria,Tuenisa,like socities.Egyptions Rulers are spending 120% of their efforts to stop Islamist its not working, they are ganing more public sempthy,in real democratic environment head scarf will become none issue.What government delivers what will become importent,that will lead Turkey to EU.Head scraf is not problem in Turkey its militry interference over and over in politice.Justic for all is not in Turkey.Solving Kurdish problem is challenge for all Turks.Solving Cypress problem is importent for all Turks.

islam is a beautiful religion and its not evil.

Islam is evil.

Sorry, but with fanatics if you give an inch they take a mile. I predict within a year there will a major incident of acid-throwing on young, non-headscarf wearing women on a Turkish university campus. This is not the fault of Refa, it is the fault of the entire society in Turkey for treating Islamic fanatics with kids gloves, e.g. the burnings at Sivas, in which you forgot to mention the minority religious status of the majority of those murdered.

I am rather ignorant of the issues in Turkey and all the cultural subleties at hand, but as a newcomer to the conversation...who the hell cares if they cover their heads? Are they banning that for the symbolism of it? It seems that would just come across as persecution and, if anything, embolden their religious resolve in other more threatening ways. I think I would have to agree with the previous poster that victory in more concrete issues pertaining to Islam, such as honor killings, would be much more desireable and condusive to a creating a free and just society, no?

Should we add to that what Turkish friends tell me regarding the boost that the crushing of the Turkish communists by the Kemalist deep state gave to the Islamic cause. You crush the "evil commies" and you get Islamic republic. Good job..., now drink up cause the party may soon be over.

Great article. We need to hear more on issues like this from common-sense people such as Mr. Domanic who are on the inside & live through situations such as this one rather than the self-designated "experts" who basically run around screaming, "The sky is falling!"

The problem with Muslims and head scarves is that they don't just stop at wanting to wear the stupid things themselves. They inevitably want to push other people into wearing them. Once they do that, it's on to other repressive demands in an endless circle jerk game of who is the most devout. Eventually they start chopping off heads and hands, blowing each other up, and flying planes into buildings.

So, the people in Turkey who want to maintain the head scarf ban are the sane ones in my view. These others are suspect based on the behavior of their religious brothers, and their own history. They can not be trusted in light of their bad behavior.

Fascism is fascism, no matter if it waves a flag or religious symbols, and we need to treat it honestly, lest we allow these greedy fools to keep their killing ways.

quite a strange brand of secularism that is practiced in Turkey. Is it any surprise that the EU refuses to have Turkey be a member of it!

Using the scarf issue in Turkey is an appropriate counter weight to the ideology paraded as secularism.

I would like to see Turkey not obsessing about headscarves, but freeing up the energy to deal with the other civil liberty issues mentioned. The headscarf ban seems quite counterproductive. It convinces Muslim women and their families that as observant Muslims, they will never be full citizens of Turkey. Excluding them from jobs and educations just makes them easier targets for more radical islamists who manipulate the marginalized. (I think there are a lot of parallels to the forbidding of the use of Kurdish; did it make people want to integrate, or did it make them want to have their own state, since they could not be both openly Kurdish and Turkish?) It would seem to me that "allowing" people to wear the religious symbols of their choice would allow you to know who and where they are, rather than demanding that they give up part of themselves, or else go underground. (Personally I abhor the theological reasons for covering women's hair --- classic blame-the-victim thinking-- but I suspect that after centuries, many people don't even think about the underlying rationale, and simply want a way to show that they belong.) Turkey marginalizes these folks at its peril.

I would like to see Turkey not obsessing about headscarves, but freeing up the energy to deal with the other civil liberty issues mentioned. The headscarf ban seems quite counterproductive. It convin