Really an explanatory article of Turkey. Congratulations!

Really an explanatory article of Turkey. Congratulations!

JUROS ALTOS E INFLAÇÃO BAIXA , É MÉRITO ?

Será que é recomendável para o Brasil, que irá ocupar este ano, a PRESIDÊNCIA FINANCEIRA, do G-20, levar como credencial, na BAGAGEM, e como PÉSSIMA referencia, a informação de que o nosso país paga ágio de 7,25%, para manter a taxa de inflação em 4,46% ?. Afinal, é um ágio de 160% acima da inflação e nenhum desses países deve estar pagando essa taxação de usura, porque o custo existente, além de injustificável, não transfere nenhum benefício ao Povo.

Verifiquem, por favor, nominando os ágios que esses países pagam, para uma simulação verdadeira com as vantagens do capital especulativo em nosso país.

O Brasil poderia aproveitar essa excelente oportunidade de comando e propor , para o G-20, uma Resolução determinando que nenhum desses países pode pagar ágios superiores a 4% acima da inflação,protegendo, assim,a economia de nações ricas e pobres da especulação financeira mundial. Afinal, o cartel financeiro especulativo mundial já se organizou há muito tempo e está agindo on line c/ muita competencia, para descapitalizar a poupança de muitos países, através da Bovespa, BM&F e Títulos do Governo. E porque os Governos também ñ podem se unir na defesa dos interesses maiores de SUAS NAÇÕES ? Os Bancos Centrais não podem continuar com a inércia de hoje e a reboque do CAPITAL VOLÁTIL E APÁTRIDA. Basta simplesemnte agir , se modernizando E MONITORANDO, com rigor, o sistema FINANCEIRO, NA DEFESA do ESTADO E NÃO SÓ FICANDO
ALIMENTANDO ESSE CAPITAL DE CASSINO. O MERCADO LIVRE TAMBÉM TEM O SEU LIMITE . E POR NÃO RESPEITAR ESSE LIMITE E SE AUTO REGULAMENTAR, COM ABSOLUTA LIBERDADE, É QUE CRIAM CRISES COMO A DAS LETRAS HIPOTECÁRIAS AMERICANAS E CONTINUA IMPUNE, BOLANDO NOVOS ASSALTOS AOS BOLSOS DOS BRASILEIROS.

Pagando ágio de 7,25% acima da inflação, é muito fácil o seu controle, mas muito caro para o tesouro Nacional. CÁLCULOS que ninguem se propõe a fazer.

E, os reflexos nos custos,nas Contas do Goveno, estamos vendo, com a transferencia de mais de R$ 60 bilhões da Conta de Juros não Pagos, p/ a Conta do Prinicipal da Dívida, porque o superavit primário só irá cobrir uns R$ 100 bilhões de \juros Anuais.

E, ainda p/ cima, só as reservas internacionais estão consumindo mais de R$ 16 bi anuais do TN ( diferença entre o q recebemos e o que pagamos para mante-las), financiando o Tesouro americano( maior PIB mundial ou precisamente 1/4).Embora sejamos o menor PIB do G-15.Dá para entender, o país pobre e em desenvolvimento, financiando, à custa do suor de milhões de brasileiros o país rico ?

Destacar mais de 30% de todas as receitas do TN ( s/ INSS), só para pagar juros elevados, será que é mérito e para debeficiar a quem ? Porque ao Povo, com clareza, Não.

Será que de fato, o ágio que pagamos acima da inflação, não é devido à garantia de rolagem mais fácil de nossa dívida que é erroniamente concentrada no Curto Prazo?. E porque o Banco Central não muda o ferfil dessa dívida no Curto para o LONGO PRAZO, sabendo que o Tesouro está CADA VEZ mais vulnerável ao comando dos especuladores internacionais?

Faltam muitas respostas para a manutençao de uma selic elevada e dos pagamentos de juros e engargos que passaram de R$ 160 bilhões em 2007.

Será que para alcançar a meta inflacionária de 4,46% era
realmente necessário o Tesouro Nacional concordar com uma Selic tão despropositada ?. Porque mais de 15 países, com PIB duas a 5 vezes maior do que o do Brasil, refletindo em maior capacidade de consumo, não precisam de ágio tão elevado para conter ainflação ?. Como a sétima economia mundial, somos um péssimo exemplo a dar ao mundo. E olha, se a Selic estivesse em 8,92% ( 100% acima da inflação), a meta do Banco Central não seria comprometida e o Tesouro Nacional (dinheiro do povo) teria uma economia real de quase R$ 30 bilhões, recursos esses suficientes para alavancar a infra estrutura de trasnporte, incluindo uma ferrovia de norte a sul e de leste a oeste, além do trem bala rio são paulo e outros investimentos sociais prioritários.

Enquanto tivemos pressão por demanda de produtos alimentícios , a China também teve, em 18% e o Brasil sómente em 13%. Mas a inflação chinesa foi de 4,7% ou 0,24% maior do que a nossa e lá o ágio ñ passa de 2% acima de inflação. Quem está errado? Será que no grupo do G-20, o Brasil é o único certo?

E a pressão dos alimentos sobre a inflação,se resolve com um simples planejamento do Governo, porque temos uma das maiores áreas agricultáveis do planeta, o que falta ao Japão, Inglaterra, Itália , Alemanha, França e outros nações de primeiro mundo. Não culpem os alimentos como justificativa para uma Selic elevada, por favor. E tem mais, como o Feijão depende de duas Águas, sendo a primeira no plantio e, a segunda , quando estiver cozinhando na Penela, pode ter a prudução ampliada com financiamentos dirigidos aos Agricultores Familiares. O Consumo nacional do feijão não passa de 3,5 milhões de tonelas. Quanto ao Arroz,com consumo previsto de 13,5 milhões de toneladas e que não é um produto de Sequeiro, mas de Varzéas, Tocantins, Maranhão, Piaui, Mato Grosso e Rio Grande do Sul, podem aumentar imediatamente a produção irrigada para atender tranquilamente à demanda interna. Afinal,a maioria dos projetos de Irrigação são financiados a Fundo Perdido pelo Governo Federal, com recursos do Povo.

Greek Christos(means Jesus in greek.Jesus is Love,not Hate)

Turkey has been founded in 1923.So,how can Turkey be Guiılty(!)(?) for 1915.
Where is the ottoman cemetery in Crete island.But,*Hiristos pamma karistos* church(Istanbul,Draman Fethiye mosque) can be seen.
Where are the ottoman buildings in Athens ?
Do you know Basileos II(958-1025)Byzantine Emporer.He had gouged out 20.000 Bulgarians' eyes.

Kerem,

The differences should be in Democracy.Democracy means to live as *equal Human*
*If dogs,donkeys and women pass in front of praying one,Salah is marred*.Canonic saying.
Woman in islam is the second class citizen and she has no right to divorce his master(husband).
Democracy doesnt accept 2=1.Democracy doesnt accept unilateral *I divorce you*.

Christos Anesti:

Who remembers the Greeks that condemned Socrates?

Going by your logic, we would have to go by the numbers, and not the facts. Socrates was found guilty by popular vote, therefore it must be "fact" that he is guilty!

You are poorly attempting to paint mob lynchings or theoretical exercises as "fair trials" or "due process". Nor does the use of subjective "quantifiers" like "widespread acceptance" guarantee truthfulness or correctness. History is replete with many/most people, including wise/important figures, being wrong at the same time. Iraq WMDs is a shining example of this cursed habit.

IAGS is another example: If you/they are so convinced about the IAGS, then provide a link to the supporting materials of the IAGS **Resolution**. We would all live to see the process, evidence, logic, etc. (record and process) that produced the result. I am going to take wild guess: There was no cross-examination, no challenge from the accused, and no Middle East historians with skills and expertise in Ottoman history (many US, French, UK and other non-Turkish historians to pick from). Instead, I am willing to bet we will find a summary execution, Socrates style: "we know it, you did it, accept it" sort of "argument" and a "window dressing convention/meeting" that makes it all good and nice. I doubt you can demonstrate that the IAGS provided anything that resembles a competent and transparent venue, b/c the process to collect, guard and competently and critically analyze "facts" so they really become *fact* is *absolutely* missing. I can tell you that the Turkish side had no opportunity to challenge any claims or evidence, for example. This is a most critical problem with the IAGS Resolution, indeed.

I know the IAGS is only trying to do good. But, the road to Hell is often times paved with good intentions.

Even the Pope is not infallible and with good reason: If you do not do your homework and, instead, take shortcuts (like voting instead of having a court-like due process), you are correct or wrong only by chance. There was "widespread agreement" that the Pope was wise to organize the Crusades; and that Iraq had WMDs. WRONG!

By the way, I can throw names around, too. Bernard Lewis could challenge the IAGS single-handedly. You see, he goes by facts, real ones, not assumed or perceived "facts". You see, the truth is not what you get at the end of a beauty or popularity contest, or a one-party election; it is what can be proven most convincingly among alternative/competing “truths”, i.e. Iraq has WMDs vs. Iraq does not have WMDs.

Ask Socrates; he was alone and he still was right. Who remembers the majority Greeks that killed Socrates? Socrates, the man who emphasized truth, is credited with being the founding father of Western Civilization. I am “sure” he would approve of an assembly like the IAGS passing resolution by vote!…

I wonder if any of the IAGS members even have the skills to read and understand Ottoman Archives. It is impossible to organize a genocide spanning many years and not leave behind even a single telegraph, memo, etc, anywhere to prove it? I mean, was the "Sick Man of Europe" so effective, so efficient that "he" could fight four WW1 campaigns and still systematically execute 700,000 Armenians without a hickup? Even Enron and Arthur Anderson was not that good at shredding evidence, and neither were the Nazis...

There were 4 million genuine Nazi documents on the mass murder of Jews and Gypsies. And, they had a lot more than that.

Nazis: 4 million (and more found recently) plus several massive gas chamber complexes.
Ottomans: 0 (zero) documents, plenty of Armenian testimony, but nothing from the Turks, which explains the "resolutions".

Hmmmm...

So, the only road to "Armenian Genocide" remains: I/We/IAGS/etc. have the "facts", no cross-examination or challenge or defense "necessary".

How you or IAGS determined the "facts" is beyond all humanity, since not even the IAGS attempts to explain it. IAGS was not a fact-finding mission. IAGS also did not involve a Turkish defense or challenge to the ASSUMED "FACTS" (quotes intentional and mine).

As always, the appropriate response to both Greek and Armeninan claims would be: Set up a court (tribunal, commission, etc.) where the process depends on cross-examination of evidence by those that have professional stature/credibility in law, crime, history, etc. You know, like the people that organized and operated the Nuremberg Trials. ONLY THEN can the facts can be determined and REAL/FACTUAL CONCLUSIONS drawn.

Again, show me the Turkish Nuremberg Trials and I will agree with the "Armenian Genocide" or whatever other "Genocide" you want to throw at me.

Quizling courts, propoganda machines, "factless" commissions, congresses, etc. do not say anything about anything. You are better off throwing darts at a board.

Another note: In case you have not realized, Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks are separate peoples with separate geographies and histories. EVEN IF, and that is a big IF, the Turks did commit genocidal acts against, for example, the Greeks, it does in no way say anything about the Armenians, Assyrians. That would be like saying, well, the Nazis were tried and found to be guilty of killing Jews and Gypsies; so, while we are at it, let's blame them for the Rwanda Genocide, too, and lets skip a separate trial and simply assume the facts are there.

That is why "resolutions" is the only thing "Armenian Genocide" accusers ever get.

Being resolute and being right/just are two very different things.

That sounds like mob lynching mentality.

To Basat Tayfun:

The facts have indeed been researched and it is conclusively proven that Turkey is GUILTY of Genocide. I know it must be difficult for you to comprehend that the Turkish nation was founded on conquered land whose former inhabitants (Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians)were either subjected to mass murder or forced into exile never to return from 1914 to 1923. My family is from the great Greek cities of Constantinople and Smyrna and if ever there was a slam dunk case of Genocide this is it. What the Turks perpetrated against the Christians of Anatolia is one of the most despicable acts in human history and they got away with it because if the insidious power politics that the allied victors of World War I engaged in after the war.

My comments are based by FACT. Please read the findings of the International Association of Genocide Scholars(IAGS) posted below.

HISTORY WILL HAUNT TURKEY UNTIL THE TURKISH NATION ACCEPTS RESPONSIBILITY FOR GENOCIDE BEFORE THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD.

Recognition of Genocide perpetrated by Turkey against Greeks and Assyrians from 1914 - 1923

January 4, 2008

International Genocide Scholars Association Officially Recognizes Assyrian, Greek Genocides

Issued by: Adam Jones, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Political Science
University of British Columbia Okanagan

In a groundbreaking move, the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) has voted overwhelmingly to recognize as genocides the massacres of Assyrian and Greek populations of the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1923.

The resolution passed with the support of 83 percent of IAGS members who voted. The resolution declares that "it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks." It "calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution."

In 1997, the IAGS officially recognized the Armenian genocide. The current resolution notes that while activist and scholarly efforts have resulted in widespread acceptance of the Armenian genocide, there has been "little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire." Assyrians, along with Pontian and Anatolian Greeks, were killed on a scale equivalent in per capita terms to the catastrophe inflicted on the Armenian population of the empire--and by much the same methods, including mass executions, death marches, and starvation.

IAGS member Adam Jones drafted the resolution, and lobbied for it along with fellow member Thea Halo, whose mother Sano survived the Pontian Greek genocide. In an address to the membership at the IAGS conference in Sarajevo, Bosnia, in July 2007, Jones paid tribute to the efforts of "representatives of the Greek and Assyrian communities...to publicize and call on the present Turkish government to acknowledge the genocides inflicted on their populations," which had made Asia Minor their home for millennia. The umbrella term "Assyrians" includes Chaldeans, Nestorians, Syriacs, Aramaens, Eastern Orthodox Syrians, and Jacobites.

"The overwhelming backing given to this resolution by the world's leading genocide scholars organization will help to raise consciousness about the Assyrian and Greek genocides," Jones said on December 15. "It will also act as a powerful counter to those, especially in present-day Turkey, who still ignore or deny outright the genocides of the Ottoman Christian minorities."

The resolution also states "the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides." The Assyrian population of Iraq, for example, remains highly vulnerable to genocidal attack. Since 2003, Iraqi Assyrians have been exposed to severe persecution and "ethnic cleansing"; it is believed that up to half the Assyrian population has fled the country.

Extensive supporting documentation for the Assyrian and Greek genocides was circulated to IAGS members in the months prior to the vote, and is available at -http://www.genocidetext.net/iags_resolution_supporting_documentation.htm

Full Text of The IAGS Resolution:

WHEREAS the denial of genocide is widely recognized as the final stage of genocide, enshrining impunity for the perpetrators of genocide, and demonstrably paving the way for future genocides;
WHEREAS the Ottoman genocide against minority populations during and following the First World War is usually depicted as a genocide against Armenians alone, with little recognition of the qualitatively similar genocides against other Christian minorities of the Ottoman Empire;
BE IT RESOLVED that it is the conviction of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Ottoman campaign against Christian minorities of the Empire between 1914 and 1923 constituted a genocide against Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontian and Anatolian Greeks.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Association calls upon the government of Turkey to acknowledge the genocides against these populations, to issue a formal apology, and to take prompt and meaningful steps toward restitution.

Writer tried to analyze the issue from his experiences, I really dont understand you guys who blame him for having a narrow perspective and such... First of all, a point of view can ONLY be narrow and ignorant in YOUR thoughts.
Anyways, problem is not really what mr.domanic wrote. It is really about if Turkey is a democracy and a modern state. First of all it is obvious that turkish state had a way much different historical accumulation than the Western Europe. Even Eastern European countries had various issues and their democratization process is still continuing. Let me give an example: In Greece, the associations with the word "Turk" inside it are NOT allowed. Well, in Istanbul there is a hospital named after Greeks. check: "balikli rum hastahanesi" Maybe linguistics may not be very important for democracy. However, concluding that Turkey is not a democratic state engenders lots of things. Anyways, its really annoying to see these Orientalist comments even in this global era. I mean if democracy also means accepting differences, lets face it: every country in this planet DO NOT have to be like you plan them to be.

JustWatching:

There is no such thing as a shortcut to truth; otherwise, lynch mob executions and summary executions would be called "fair trials", without the quotes.

The day the claim/allegation of the "Armenian Genocide" passes commonly-accepted norms of objective analysis/scrutiny, I will be more than happy to remove the quotes from all references to the "Armenian Genocide". In other words, until the Turks are given at least as good a treatment as the due-process given to the hated Nazis, Saddam, Milosevic, etc., the quotes remain. If it was not "too much" for the enemy-Nazis, then it is not too much for the ally-Turks.

To all those that are sure of themselves about the "Armenian Genocide" and would like the quotes to be removed: If the "Armenian Genocide" happened, then it ought to be a "slam dunk" to demonstrate that it did. Accept or join calls to the formation of a competent, transparent, fact-driven process, like a tribunal or commission. If you do not, then do not complain about quotes or "apologists".

We do not apologize for things that have not been demonstrated to have happened. The more serious the charge, the better standard you have to follow.

We are not talking about pick-pocketing $1 gum from a convenience store; we are talking the alleged systematic murder of countless people.

You ought to be able to make a case in open day and win despite defense from a perpetrator. If you cannot, then, like the WMDs in Iraq, which EVERYONE BOUGHT, may turn up to be a well-crafted story.

Process does matter: I remember, when I saw OJ Simpson being chased in his white Bronco, I thought that he was guilty -- it certainly looked like it. I also remember that a mix-race jury found him not guilty in a few hours of deliberation. Boy, was I humbled. In another TYPE OF PROCESS, he was found responsible in "wrongful death", which relied heavily on the information the criminal trial produced (yet another reason to have due process). SO, PROCESS MATTERS. In another time, another place, OJ would have been declared "guilty" and lynched on the spot, being an African-American. So, again, PROCESS MATTERS.

NO DUE PROCESS. NO CONVICTION. QUOTES REMAIN.

There is no such thing as a shortcut to truth; otherwise, lynch mobs would be called "fair trials".

Until the supporters of the "Armenian Genocide" put their lawyers and historians where there mouths are for open challenge by the accused (i.e. Turkish nation) in open daylight, the quotes remain.

And, this or that legislation "recognizing" the "Armenian Genocide" by politicians (the last people on earth with any decency or credibility or respect for the truth) will remain **political lynching** (without the quotes, only asteriks for emphasis), and their claims as "truthful" as the WMDs in Iraq.

Regards

Goldstein,

Where are you living.In Germany ?
Didnt Interior Minister say *All foreigner must speak in german* and didnt Germany ban headscarf at schools.If you live in Germany,learn Martin Luther and what he did.
Are you living in England.Didnt Mr.Straw,Foreign Minister say *remove the veil from your face*.If you live in England,learn Henry VIII and Elizabeth I.
Are you living in France.Didnt France ban all kinds of religious symbols at schools.
These are also aditional respond to Justwatching.
Yes,Justwatching,black wrap and headscarf are issue and problem in everywhere.People,in Europe are demonstrating against the new mosque building.

Quran says,*(women) and stay quietly in your house*33.33,*Two daughters equals one Son*4.11,*Two women equals one man*2.282(for witness),*flog each of them(adulterers) with hundred strips*24.2 and *take four women*4.3
Bible says*All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect*1 Timothy 6 and *I dont permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man*1 Timothy 2.12 and Bible sharply prohibits the divorce Matthew 19.6
Is *divorce* forbidden in Europe and what are women doing...
Do they disrespect the belief of people ? Of course,no.

Turkey will be governed according to the Human Rights and civilized values.Democracy should be based on Human Rights and Secularism,otherwise Hitler had come by election.

Dear Sirs,

How can you have a republic without having the seperation of the three powers: Legislat,ive, Addministrative and the Judiciary.
You are only deceiving yourself by thinking that you can have a democracy without including the articles of human rights decleation ,n your copnstitution.
Wake up you are living in a false republican democracy.
Sincerely

The article tries to mention too many big events in a very limited space and from a very narrow perpective. It lacks the point that most of the latest events, protests, outcries of some groups etc are good signs that people even in big crowds ( usually bigger gatherings end up with some bigger problemswhich was the case in Turkey at least for the near past) can speak out their views and everybody hears them. Is this the best example of democracy, of course not, however in its own context Turkey has been improving a lot recently. In reality it is the majority of the public that is asking for more democracy, more rights, from education rights to dressing up freely, and practicing their beliefs parallel to being a better citizen. It is the status quo that has been keeping majority of the public under supression, under heavy rule( none can escape from this heavy rule including the majority Turkish, Kurdish other nationality Muslims as well as minorities such as Orthodox Christians and Armenians). It is very easy to grasp the heaviness of such ruling on the majority by just looking at the comments of HALOZCEL, who for the most part curses at the beliefs of millions of people, ridicules them, curses them, discriminates them etc., which is the way pople have been treated for long time for their beliefs for their ethnicity for their outlooks etc. Unfortunately the status quo did this with a Western veil on the face, that is why the people were opposed to Western world for a long time. when they started getting better educated they realized the whole set up and now are asking for more democracy more civil rights just like in the western countries. they are no more worried about being part of the Western world and the liberties, standards it stands for. For many years the majority of Turkey have been living under extreme heavy hand rule, and recently with the EU membership efforts and the recent government efforts there is some improvement; however the status quo, which is dominated by a small minority ( not based on ethnicity but mostly on ideology) is dragging its feet when it comes to applying all the new regulations approved by the parliament. trying to break the hopes and spirits of people. I believe historic matters, such as the Armenian Issue, the last decades of the Ottoman State, the near past of the new Turkish State must be taught at schools as well as the distant past, including the history of all civilizations. It is true that wealthy countries such as France, and other countries are using these issues for their own political agenda and not for the sake of Armenian people or others, proof is that when it comes to their more recent attrocities in Africa they play the three monkeys. I am married to a half Kurdish half Armenian woman from Eastern Anatolia and the picture I see is very differet than what is usually portraited in the media, mine is more positive in terms of the relationships in the public level. It is worthy of note that the thousands of people who marched to protest the assasination of Hrant Dink were the majority of that country who identified themselves as Turkish( not clearly stated in the article). The people would like to live in peace, it is the political powers, countries, status quo who do not let it and scratch different parts of the society for their own gains at different times. I lived in Turkey for a good amount of time and from the insight I receive from my wife I can tell that the true story is not told. Only glimpses of people through their own political and ideological screens are transmitted and do not forget the filters set here in the West too! As a summary Turkey seems more stronger than before, even so many events squeezed in just one year could not shake its stability and in fact it came out stronger. I see that Turkey will become a more important country in the region and will become a better example to the Middle Eastern Countries sending the message" people have the power to govern themselves through democracy not through tyrants and it generates wealth even though you may not have oil wells"

Justwatching,

It is an issue in England,France,Germany and even in USA as well.
If headscarf is free(in Turkey,headscarf is already free,only at Universities,Parliament and state offices have restriction),black wrap should be free.If black wrap is free,veil should be free.If veil is free,burqa should be free.If burqa is free,man can take four women and whenever he likes he should say *I divorce you*.
And,Sharia laws instead of Human Rights and Secularism should come to Turkey and Turkey should be Saudi Arabia,Iran and Afghanistan and the *Real Democracy* should be in Turkey.

Logical Man,
Yes,you are right.Lets dress up as pre-historic human and lets abolish the comtemporary laws,Secularism and Human Rights and lets go bact to the stone age life and *lets all become more modern*
Nobody says *get rid of our clothes*,on the contrary,they say *dress up as modern man*.
Isnt there middle path.

In regards to the issue of the headscarf and its correlation with modernism, I would say that the pre-historic humans were more modern than any of current civilization groups, because they walked around with the most body parts exposed.

So let's all become more modern and get rid of our clothes andlearn something from our modern ancestors

In my eyes the real issue with Turkey is not the Armenian genocide, which by the way I do not enclose in quotes. Turkey's main issue has been their failure to adapt into a truly modern state.

Take a look on the headscarf issue for instance. In theory their problem is whether women will be allowed or not to wear a headscarf in places like say their Universities. In reality the problem lies in that those who support headscarf want to impose to the others to wear it whether they like it or not, while those who oppose headscarf want to impose to the others to not wear it even if they do want to do so.

In a modern state this could have never become an issue. The most obvious answer is that those who want to use a headscarf should be free to use it in accordance to their will, while again those who don't want to should be free to ban it. It is as simple as that. Has anybody heard of the word tolerance? It is such a beautiful word.

Nobody was born educated on issues like say democracy, proper social and political behavior etc. But while some of us have grown into that, others have not. Here the responsibility of a government is not to promote reforms in a some abstract or loose legislative manner, like what the recent Turkish governments have done, always reluctantly and always under excessive foreign pressure, rumors are in exchange of generous financial aid. It is to educate their people on the globally established social and political values instead. It here I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Dominic and it is exactly here that many Turkish friends of mine loose their point.

Real democracy is never given, instead it is taken through what in most cases is a painful process. The good news is that although you may postpone such a process, in the end it is inevitable that it will take place. The longer you postpone it, the more painful it will be. There is no place for banana republics anymore.

Wow, what a stream of intense feelings. The problem with most anaylysis re Turkey appears to be that they treat the country as an island, figuratively and literally. Would the USA and EU enjoy its relative peace and security if they actually bordered the wars or colonialization-ravaged countries they created? What would happen if Turkey and, say, the UK swapped places? Was/is Northern Ireland a beacon of democracy?

The other problem with the analyses such as this and the comments are that they oversimplify and generally miss the big picture. The last one hundred or so years in Eastern Europe and the Middle East is a continuous stream of one catastrophe after another, almost entirely and willingly man-made. For centuries BEFORE that, the area was *relatively* calm and civilized BEYOND most any other parts of the world. Was it perfect? Heck no! For example, did Christians pay extra tax or suffer other forms of discrimination and loss? Absolutely! But, unlike minorities in Europe and the United States, they had a great deal freedoms and rights. If Greeks disagree, then may be they can explain how it is that they still speak Greek, are still Orthodox Christians, and still live in Greece AFTER 400 years of "Ottoman occupation"? African Americans, Native Americans, European Jews, etc. would like to know... When one looks at the big picture, instead of focusing on the fate of a specific family or church, the numbers heavily favor the Ottomans across the board. Otherwise, if the Ottoman system had no humanity, no legitimacy, no just basis for existence, then we have to conclude that it defied gravity for all those centuries -- not likely. It was only a few decades ago that Europe "defeated" its *own* facism (thanks USA!) and the EU came to life. I wonder where they will be in another few decades? I wonder what would happen if the EU did not have the homoginized (read ethnically cleansed) societies (all predominantly Christian and caucasian) buffered from nightmare wars, crises, etc. by the Mediterranean and Turkey and US economic and military might? France is unable to integrate (or assimilate?) non-caucasian, non-Christian communitities in the 21st century. Makes you wonder about those that are tearing apart the centuries-old Ottomans today. Hmmmm...

Yet, there is another problem with much of what I have read above: A perverse, lop-sided application of logic. Modifying/hacking a Jewish saying, we are told "when it rains, only specific people get wet". In reality, rain (and fire) do not discriminate; everybody gets wet (burned). For example, I see common references to the Armenian-Turkish history. I still do not see the Turkish account being discussed at all, not even in Turkey! Only the Armenian side gets mention (by Hrant Dink in Istanbul or the Congress in the US). Can Mustafa Domanic or millions of Turks answer this question: How many Turks died in the "Armenian Genocide"? I am pretty sure Mustafa and many Turks "know" the Armenian account very well. If Mustafa knew about the Turkish losses, it would be MUCH HARDER for him to make points about how Turks are denied "ONLY" the truth about the Armenians, when in fact Turks are denied to truth about BOTH SIDES of the history. There is also the need to have leverage against Turkey. For example, France wants Turkey out of the EU-path, so it brings up Armenians. One might ask, why now? Why not a century ago when France was on the winning side in WW1 and could have pressed for Turkish Nuremberg Trials? The big picture makes it obvious that the Armenians, Azeris and Turks are (again) victims of international power plays. Armenians are feeling good about their string of political victories, but, on the ground in Armenia, they are loosing wealth and blood with each passing day. I do not see France or the USA really doing anything to help the Armenians... Hmmm...

So, the localization of Turkey's problems, the lack of a wholistic (big picture) approach to provide sanity-checks, and the application of logic in a one-sided manner are common problems I see with blogs like these. There is no way to draw a truthful and complete conclusion as long as these problems persist. You either look at the WHOLE TRUTH (and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH) or you leave the matter alone. Turks definitely need to shape up, but they are not alone in that need, not by a long shot.

Who wants Turkey in the EU? USA and, of course,UK, its ally/servant. It is a sure way to destroy it.

Halozcel

You missed the point.
The problem is double standards and bad faith.

If Serbia with all the atrocites it has committed over the past 15 years and can be placed on a fast track to EU membership by a few slaps on the wrist, it is not called civilization , it is called a wink and a nod such as occurred at Srebrenica.

Turkey should wake up and withdraw its application to EU, which I would certainly not equate with a progressive organization acting in good faith, but taking its inspiration maybe from the crusades

The writer is talking about a baby step in a half-sincere reform look-alike emulation where it has proven itself to be the longest emerging market and has earned the title to be a perpetual EU candidate...deservedly so.

Salvation comes from within!

EU can give an invitation to Serbia for rapid entry into EU which was responsible for some of the worst killings/rapes/barbarism just less than a decade ago, but it will keep upping the ante for the turks for joining the EU. The Turks need to look elsewhere for organizational strength rather than EU, even if it is in Africa or Asia. The EU has proven to be not acting in good faith and it's not worth your efforts, Turkey. Got it?

I believe in reason and I am glad to identify Mr Domanic's views within reason. Looks like Turkey is a country, that is terribly mismanaged by their own political elites.

Should the Army be considered a political elite? Well, rid the boots and join politics. Should Turkey take bold steps to clear the mess of their so called "Deep State", comprised by corrupt politicians, ranking civil servants, army members, financial oligarchs and the common underworld which actually has run the country for decades, as a state from within a state? Of course they must. Should Turkey extend their weak Democracy by expanding civil, political and religious rights to their own citizens? Most obviously yes.

Turkey's last chance has a name on it, and this name is European Union. Rather than expecting EU to meet the Turkish agenda, it is Turkey that should be met with the European common practices and ideals. In the end this is the only way withing reach to benefit of the average Turkish citizen, whether secular or religious and whatever his or hers ethnic origin may be. Loose that chance and I can see Turkey remaining in the Dark Ages, sadly for the times to come.

But while Europe may be ready for Turkey, alas it seems Turkey is not ready for Europe. Clearly the political reforms have lost momentum in this country and the locals are been lead and mislead to take Europe as a threat.

For the record neither I am a Turk, nor can I speak the language, but I can understand Mr Serefziz's "Siktir git seni Domenic" as a rude personal insult. Just watching the posts by our Turkish audience, makes me so pessimist. When will these people mature?

STAEMBOATER,

Hey, is burning the American flag an offense?

Yeah, but America ain't a real democracy, right? It's only a mockracy.

Well, sorry!

Re: financial analyst at the London office of a global hedge

When financial analysts start writing nonsense in supposedly well known newspapers, you begin to fear the future when one may have to resort to reading Harry Potter to pass the time of day.

After all the only other option will be to read lies and propaganda and half truths.

If Turkey was a real democracy, insulting "Turkishness" wouldn't even be an issue.
Countries with low self-esteem are always senseitive to any perceived slight. Russia is a great example, with Turkey and a host of other countries too.

Yonkers, New York
31 December 2007

A sincere believer in liberty, I can fully sympathize with Mustafa Domanic and those of his countrymen and -women who feel that their own government is oppressive and quick to deny them their civil rights as citizens of what they must conceive to be a secularist government under Turkey's current Constitution.

Turkey is seeking to be a member of the European Union, and must be under overt or covert pressure from the European Parliament and its organs to fall in line with the rest of the Union as far as making democracy and the freedoms and civil liberties that are associated with it realities for all of the Turkish people.

Turkey has a large stake in being admitted a member of the European Union. It stands to benefit immensely financially, economically as well as politically.

Consequently, it will be in the interest of Turkey's conservative rulers to institute the democratic reforms needed for Turkey to be judged ready to be a full-fledged member of the European Union--even to the extent of amending its current Constitution to make this outcome possible.

Mariano Patalinjug
MarPatalinjug@aol.com

At last another turk ,who admits that the armenians were repeatedly terrorized by the turks. Though he doesn't say that in 1915 took place the armenian genocide,instead he uses the word "plight".
I think it's time the turkish government should have the courage and honesty to admit the murder commited by his ancestors, thus respecting the human justice which sooner or later will triumph in the world.

I am afraid that this is total bunkum, as the continuing huge popularity of Erdogan evidences and the flexibilty of Gul to consider further easing of certain restrictions on free speech and rights of association confirms.

Being a former central banker and financial analyst muself, I hope that Mustafa's insghts into finance (which are, in the final analysis, far more important than charts and econometric models) are more robust tahn his political acumen.