Masha Lipman is the editor of the Pro et Contra journal, published by Carnegie Moscow Center. Lipman is also an expert in the Civil Society Program at the Carnegie Moscow Center. She served as deputy editor of the Russian weekly newsmagazines, Ezhenedel’ny zhurnal from 2001 to 2003, and of Itogi magazine from 1995 to 2001. She has worked as a translator, researcher, and contributor forMoscow bureau of The Washington Post and has had a monthly op-ed column in The Washington Post since 2001.
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Masha Lipman
Moscow, Russia
Masha Lipman is the editor of the Pro et Contra journal, published by Carnegie Moscow Center. Lipman is also an expert in the Civil Society Program at the Carnegie Moscow Center.
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FINALMENTE A CRISE MOSTROU OS CULPADOS, MAS SEM CRIMES
Somente depois da recente reunião realizada na Basiléia, Suíça, sede dos BIS ou USB (Banco Central dos Bancos Centrais), com a presença de Governadores ou Presidentes dos Bancos Centrais dos países do Grupo do G-10, compreendendo Bélgica, Canadá, França, Itália , Japão, Holanda, Suécia, Suíça, Inglaterra e Estados Unidos, foi possível saber, de direito, porque de fato já sabíamos, que os responsáveis
Pela propalada e administrada “Crise Mundial...” são os Cartéis do Sistema Financeiro e os Bancos Centrais, por omissão.
Essa reunião da Basiléia deixou bem claro que os Bancos Centrais dos Países mais ricos do Mundo, venceram a queda de braço contra o Tesouro Nacional americano e mostraram, sem nenhum constrangimento, que são verdadeiros agentes do sistema financeiro mundial. Enquanto o Secretário americano defendia ajuda restrita às vítimas inocentes das subprimes, limitada aos USD 160 bilhões, o FED (banco central americano) cobrava a ampliação desses benefícios aos especuladores e aos Bancos, indistintamente e foi o grande vencedor da peleja, em prejuízo de bilhões de dólares a milhões de contribuintes. E o FED está fazendo redescontos de títulos com garantia de 85% do Valor de Face, quando é sabido que a cotação desses papéis não passa de 10%. E uma prova transparente de que as Raposas continuam Fiscalizando os Aviários.
O interessante é que o sistema financeiro , através dos Bancos Centrais, sem necessidade de compromisso com o povo ou de representatividade através de eleições populares diretas, conquistou poderes absolutos para manipular mercado , inflação, juros e ainda com a vantagem de sacar do Tesouro Nacional, sem limite, recursos para a cobertura de fabulosos prejuízos ( R$ 48 bilhões foram sacados recente pelo BC Brasil) FAZ BEM LEMBRAR o que disse THOMAS JEFFERSON, EX-PRESIDENTE AMERICANO: “Se o povo americano alguma vez permitir aos bancos controlarem a questão da nossa dívida, primeiro através da inflação, depois pela deflação, os bancos e as corporações que crescerão privarão o povo de toda a prosperidade até que os seus filhos acordem sem casa no continente que os seus pais conquistaram”. A profecia está se materializando e mais de dois milhões dos americanos (vítimas inocentes) estão abandonando as suas casas, porque foram enganados e manipulados pela ganância da especulação financeira.
A era Greenspan, de juros negativos e de excesso de liquidez, com os ganhos abusivos nos países em desenvolvimento (continua até hoje), alastrou a especulação habitacional e de outros ativos de risco, mostrando uma prosperidade irreal e deixou os Bancos totalmente livres para a manipulação do mercado financeiro Mundial . E os Bancos Centrais não estão sendo capazes ou não querem mostrar a dimensão dessa crise e até parece que desejam que a instabilidade e as incertezas continuem. De acordo com o IIF ( Instituto de Finanças Internacionais), os Emergentes devem receber um fluxo de capitais de mais de US$ 730 bilhões este ano, sendo somente que US$ 260 bilhões em investimentos Diretos e o restante para giro na especulação financeira volátil, que não gera mais produção , emprego ou renda. E esse capital nocivo continua vasculhando o planeta, em busca de atrativos ganhos em países como os do Brasil, que infelizmente sempre privilegiou esse capital em detrimento das prioridades maiores da Nação.
A fraqueza do Tesouro americano. demonstrada frente ao seu Banco Central , como vem anunciando alguns jornais, já despertou em muitos países a necessidade de devolver ao Congresso Nacional o controle do dinheiro e a sua volta às mãos do povo, mas com competência, seriedade e total TRANSPARENCIA. As lições valiosas do passado, a partir de 1929 de nada serviram ou estão servindo, exatamente porque os países democráticos continuam socializando prejuízos de bilhões de dólares (do povo) em favor de uma ínfima minoria de especuladores e banqueiros internacionais. Esperamos que o governo brasileiro tenha maturidade suficiente e não seja embevecido com o noticiário bajulador da imprensa internacional, mostrando o País como o berço da prosperidade para esse capital nocivo. Basta lembrar, com uma certa tristeza que o crescimento real estupendo das receitas do Tesouro não foi suficiente para conter uma dívida de US$ 157 bilhões em janeiro de 1991 que passou para R$ 1,333,8 trilhão em 2007 e deve chegar a R$ 1.540 trilhão em 2008, de acordo com projeções do Banco Central.Tudo isso, depois do pagamento, no mesmo período, de alguns bilhões de dólares em juros e encargos financeiros. Somente de 2007 para 2008 haverá um crescimento nominal da dívida em mais de R$ 200 bilhões, independentemente dos juros que serão pagos com o aproveitamento do superávit primário. E de 1991 para cá esses bilhões de reaias que estão gerando novos endividamentos estão sendo direcionados única e exclusivamente para alimentar a ciranda financeira ou o capital de “motel” e a concratação de riquezas. Esperávamos, sinceramente, que os Bancos Centrais e o FMI , na reunião da Basiléia apresentassem soluções concretas para o MONITORAMENTO DO SISTEMA FINANCEIRO, NA DEFESA DE BILHÕES DE PESSOAS.OS AMERICANOS E A UNIÃO EUROPEIA, EM NOME DA CRISE, ESTÃO GANHANDO ALGUNS BILHÕES DE DÓLARES ANUAIS, ROLANDO DÍVIDAS DE MAIS DE US$ 20 TRILHÕES A CUSTO ZERO OU MESMO NEGATIVO. NADA MAU PARA QUEM ESTÁ EM CRISE.
The US got involved in this Balkan feud as a re-
sult of The Stainmeister's antics in the Oval Of-
fice. Wag the dog, so to speak.
Various nineteenth century treaties threw differ-
ent ethnic groups into one pile, and now they want
to dissentangle themselves. This, of course, may
not always suit the dominent group; so you have
conflict.
As it happens, the US supported the Moslem group
here, for which we were nicely repaid with 9/ll.
As for the Russians, inveterate spoilers that they
are, how ironical that a bunch of KGB atheists are
shedding crocodile tears over their fellow Ortho-
dox Christians. Have they no shame?
"Spend time in bed with your wives" do not killed and bomb.Iran for example.
Iran and USA were good partners in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. They fought against Serbs on side of muslims(Bosnia) and Albaniens-muslims (Kosovo)
These were "clean wars", now says Hillari. Bil Klinton had a "clean hands". Serbia had not nuclear bombs, no "tomahawk", no "visible" no "invisible". Serbia was bombed 78 days and nights. It was very safe attacks Serbs. After that Klinton's "great result" Bush had not choice. He had to jump into "dirty war". So, war against Serbs was not a real test. It was illusion-american dream.
why people have nothing to do instead of sitting and posting nonsense thoughts and valueless info to use up internet computers memories!
Spend time in bed with your wives if you have many to please them as you should be a good husband for them!
All wives are waiting for you to please them! all the times! believe it or not you must please your wives first before please strangers here!
"You don't seem to have anything relevant to add to the conversation, and are only interested in using it as a platform for regurgitating cheap invective about America being evil."
American Observer comments:
Your comments are intelligent and comprehensive. Thanks for sharing them.
"who the hell is “we”? Are you presuming to speak for all Americans?"
That was the editorial we.
"What you call “cynical view of American foreign policy”, I call it “fair and balanced”,"
Uh... making a list of exclusively negative aspects of American foreign policy doesn't strike me as particularly balanced. Anyway, call it whatever you want: your shrillness and inability to stay on-topic speak louder than any labels you could insist on.
"(I believe most of the world would agree with me)."
Ah, so you speak for the entire world now. Well, God told me that I'm right, so nah-nah-nah!
Can we please move past the juvenile assertions of authority? It's not fooling anyone. Your inputs will be judged on their merits.
"As an American I’m deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy with which the US deals with the rest of the world – especially since Bush and his warmongering cronies came to power. Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!! But I digress…"
Indeed you do. While you've made it abundantly clear that you believe America behaves hypocritically, you have been pathologically unable to demonstrate how this applies to Kosovo. What are America's motivations in the Balkans, if not the stated ones? What is the right thing to do regarding Kosovo, if not what we're doing? As I made clear in my first response to you, unless you can answer these question, your portrait of American hypocrisy is, at best, irrelevant.
"So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them as “taking cheap shots at America”. Talk about cynical!! "
Unbacked assertions do not carry much weight. Rather than persist in the fiction that I'm unable to respond to you (and abuse the word "cynical"), it would behoove you to consider my input seriously and phrase an appropriate response. Simply shouting "nuh-uh!" didn't work in elementary school, and it won't work now.
"Pointing out what the US did wrong does not make me look petty."
Well, to be specific, it's the pointing out of mistakes *unrelated* to Kosovo or the Balkans that makes you look petty. You don't seem to have anything relevant to add to the conversation, and are only interested in using it as a platform for regurgitating cheap invective about America being evil. This is petty. A detailed, insightful analysis of mistakes in Americans policy towards the Balkans, on the other hand, would be highly relevant and interesting. Unfortunately, you seem too distracted by questions relating to the Middle East and more interested in reinforcing an essentialist view of the United States.
"On the contrary, defending the indefensible by people like you and A.O is what sullies American reputation around the world."
Right, it's anonymous posts on the internet that determine America's reputation. If only people would stop challenging your childish rhetoric, the world would love us again. Anyway, exactly what have I defended? Objecting to your incoherent, divisive tactics does not amount to a defense of anything other than reasoned discourse.
Anyway, I said it last time, and I may as well repeat it: the way to get people to take you seriously is to respond with a clear, reasoned argument detailing what the right course of action in the Balkans would be, and why America is not pursuing such a course. You might even find that my previous post on NATO expansion would be very helpful in constructing such an argument.
What's becoming clear, however, is that you are emotionally committed to an essentialist view of America as evil. Hence the implicit assumption that demonstrating American failures in unrelated times and places is sufficient to prove that America's motivations in the Balkans (whatever they may be) are necessarily nefarious and, as a corollary, any stated good intentions are simply propaganda. After all, Iraq proves that America (or the government, anyway) is inherently evil, right? And so it follows that any policy America pursues is an instantiation of its evil inner nature. Thus, there's is no need for any understanding or analysis of the Balkans as such: the priority is to oppose America. And never mind that various forces will exploit your myopia for their own ends: after all, they aren't America, and so they aren't evil.
Well, if that's your agenda, I suggest you go find an audience that hasn't already heard it a thousand times. Like high school students, maybe...
Unfortunately, I am not in Pristina, so I can't do that? Why don't you find a source for me, or admit that all of your numbers are fantasies?
Gandra replies
State Department declared that there are 250.000 murdered in Kosovo by Milosevic's forces. Pope believed in that and asked Klinton to bomb Serbia (it said Klinton when pope died, or it is fantasy?). American observer come to 10.000 victims(Albaniens) Total number (without NATO) of murdered (Serbs, Albaniens, Roms, muslims...=Kosovars) does not nearly reachd level 10.000.
There was a public session Security Council of U.N. Prime minister Kostunica publicly declared that in Pristina 1999. lived 40.000 Serbs, now there only "living" (it is more than ghetto) 10-20 Serbs. It is not fantasy, it is brutal ethnic cleaning, it is shame for U.N. and all West and all people which thinking by CNN brain.
"So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them..."
American Observer replies:
I addressed them very nicely, 'Krajina,' but you failed to thank me for it, so I can easily understand why FF thought your 'points' were not worth his time.
"Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!"
American Observer says:
If you are an American, then you understand the term 'yadda-yadda-yadda.' 'Krajina,' would should we have done in Iraq? Yes, nobody likes the situation there now, but what would Iraq be like today if we had left Saddam in power, so he could rule for the rest of his life and then give power to Uday and Quasay and then Mustapha, thus ensuring the same kind of rule for another half-century after time itself caught up with Saddam? You feel like you have the moral authority to blame America for overthrowing Saddam, so tell me -- would you like to take the moral responsibility for having left him in power?
We have a similar question in the former Yugoslavia. What should we have done there? You seem to feel like you have enough moral authority to blame America for stopping the Serbs and allowing their victims to escape; but tell me, what would those nations be like today if we had lowered ourselves so low as to have 'kept our big noses out'? Would you like to be responsible for the dozens of Srebrenica massacres that the Serbs would have perpetrated on millions of people?
Oh, and by the way -- how is it that an 'American' chose the screen name 'Krajina?' Krajina is the region in Bosnia where the Serbs did some of their most evil crimes, and where the Serbs suffered some of their most humiliating defeats. Why would a politically-correct American choose that screen name? Do you have Serbian ancestors, or what?
“Even if we accept your cynical view of American foreign policy” – who the hell is “we”? Are you presuming to speak for all Americans? If that’s the case I can tell you right now - you don’t speak for me! What you call “cynical view of American foreign policy”, I call it “fair and balanced”, (I believe most of the world would agree with me). As an American I’m deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy with which the US deals with the rest of the world – especially since Bush and his warmongering cronies came to power. Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!! But I digress…
So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them as “taking cheap shots at America”. Talk about cynical!! Pointing out what the US did wrong does not make me look petty. On the contrary, defending the indefensible by people like you and A.O is what sullies American reputation around the world.
Krajina, your post is incoherent. Even if we accept your cynical view of American foreign policy, it doesn't add up to an argument that recognizing Kosovo wasn't the right thing to do, or that America shouldn't try to do the right thing now. Taking cheap shots at America (wherein you presume to speak for the Iraqi people, no less) doesn't do your cause any good. It just makes you look petty and vindictive. Also, as much moral authority as the United States may have lost over the years, we still possess vastly more than Serbia or Russia, neither of whom ever aspired to any in the first place. You need to at least propose some plausible alternative motivations for America if you want to be taken seriously.
"Why believe or not believe that Pristina increase from 200.000-250.000 (1999. y.) to 600.000 today.
Ask US office in Pristina"
American Observer:
Unfortunately, I am not in Pristina, so I can't do that? Why don't you find a source for me, or admit that all of your numbers are fantasies?
Krajina says:
"The right thing to do would be helping the oppressed Palestinian people against its Israeli oppressors."
American Observer says:
Actually, I agree. The sad fact about the Middle East is that both sides have such bad intentions. The Israelis actually believe that they can drive the Palestinians to Finland, and the Arabs actually believe that they can 'erase the Israeli state' and drive the Israelis into the sea. America has always tried to negotiate between these two sides, and then both sides betray us. A good example is how close Clinton came to a comprehensive peace in 2000. The treaty was almost signed; and then the Israelis withdraw from Lebanon, and Arafat decided that the withdrawal proved that the Israelis were weak. This inspired Arafat to believe that more violence could get him more concessions, so Arafat stopped the negotiations and started a new intifada. I have always said that you if you want to understand the Arab point of view, you have to speak to an Israeli, and if you want to understand the Israeli point of view, you have to speak to an Arab.
Krajina says:
"I don't recall the US government ever appologized to the people of Iraq for invading their country, depite the fact the ostensible reason for invasion proved to be complete false."
American Observer says:
We never should and we never will apologize to the Iraqis for overthrowing Saddam or the Ba'ath, but I hope we all agree that the Iraqi people should thank America. Even today the Shia and the Kurds are glad that we overthrew Saddam; only the Sunni feel differently. As an America, I am proud that we kicked the asses of Saddam and his dogs just as I am proud that we kicked the asses of Milosovic and his dogs; and I hope we always keep our boots laced for that kind of kicking.
American observer says:
if the Serbs slaughtered around 10,000 Kosovars,
Gandra replies: It is not truth. Total number (without NATO) of murdered (Serbs, Albaniens, Roms, muslims...=Kosovars) does not nearly reachd level 10.000. It is manipulation, as many other (Irak and Sadam's weapons, say). First number was 250.000 slaugtered Albaniens. Did you not remember?
The bigest ethnic cleanings in Yugoslavia are 250.000-300.000 Serbs from Croatia, and 250.000 from Kosovo. Unbelievable? Yes, but it is truth.
Why believe or not believe that Pristina increase from 200.000-250.000 (1999. y.) to 600.000 today.
Ask US office in Pristina
A.O. is nothing but full of you-know-what. Since when does the US ever care about "the right thing to do"!! The right thing to do would be helping the oppressed Palestinian people against its Israeli oppressors. The right thing to do would be to get an UN resolution before launching an invasion against Iraq on false pretense. I don't recall the US government ever appologized to the people of Iraq for invading their country, depite the fact the ostensible reason for invasion proved to be complete false. That would have been the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be supporting the democractically elected governments in Iran (in the 50s) and a host of countries in Latin America ( in the 70s and 80s), instead of subverting them and then orchstrated their overthrow. And list goes on and on....
The US has surrendered its moral high ground (if it ever had) a long time ago. So don't go around and preaching to people that recognizing Kosvo is the "right thing to do"!!
maybe I do not fully understand this issue; but my first reaction has been, if the Serbs slaughtered around 10,000 Kosovars, and aggressively pursued a policy of ethnic cleansing in the region . . . . .that to me is about sufficient to support K's independence. I realize that is ignoring all of the more delicate ins and outs of the regional relationships. . . but doesn't the ethnic cleansing history count for something ?
"Before 1999. in Prishtina (The capital of Kosovo) lived 40.000 Serbs (of 200.000 citizens). Now in Prishtina "living" only 10-20 Serbs (of 600.000 citizens)."
American Observer replies:
From 200,000 to 600,000? Are you seriously suggesting that the population of Pristina rose from 200,000 to 600,000? I am sorry, I find it hard to believe that the population of that city has tripled in less than ten years. Where do you get your figures?
Before 1999. in Prishtina (The capital of Kosovo) lived 40.000 Serbs (of 200.000 citizens). Now in Prishtina "living" only 10-20 Serbs (of 600.000 citizens). Only in Prishtina, Albaniens grab 10.000 private apartments of Serbs. There are 250.000 refugees from Kosovo(Serbs, Roms). So, it is not blah-blah, it is shame for democray and dead human rights. It is not question between Russia and USA it is question of modern civilization.
supporting creation of smaller states is not good for the world's future. all the cases are not one and the same. the countries should respond according to the situation prevailing in the troubled regions.
language or religion should not be taken in to consideration before a smaller state is to be created. there must be some criteria to do justification for independence seeking smaller countries.
international intervention is however unavoidable to resolve this type of problems.
The Kosovo matter has diverse complexities to be sure. However, the U.S. public has little knowledge of any of them. Lipman is quite correct in her assessment of the "moderate",i.e.non-nationalist, Russians. The U.S. government continues its Clinton-Bush/Council on Foreign Relations policy for what was Yugoslavia, that being FRAGMENTATION, ECONOMIC PENETRATION & DOMINANCE, PRIVATIZATION ( for multi-national firms' gains). Further, the Israelists in Washington posture to show that they are not really anti-Muslim & that an overpopulated Albanian community with well over 70% unemployment can really be a viable state with Wall Street & The City as proper directors of the project. Finally, Kosovo can become yet another operations base for the U.S. imperial war machine to transport its forces & supplies to the Middle east & Israel.
If you want some insight into Russia's attitude with this development, take a look at a map of NATO members. The recent expansions form a continuous wall of allies from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea, effectively cutting Russia off from the Balkans. Furthermore, Albania, Croatia and Macedonia are set to join NATO later this year, with Montenegro and possibly Bosnia not far behind. Bear in mind that Russia has historically considered the Balkans to be in 'their sphere of influence,' and you see that they are alarmed at being pushed out of the region, and so have been making a full-court press for influence there. The swing state in all of this is Serbia: the most influential single Balkan state, and a historical ally of Russia. Thus, Russia's staunch (some might say overweening) support for Serbia throughout the conflicts of the 90's, and their backing today. If Russia loses its relationship with Serbia, or if Serbia is marginalized, then Russian influence in the Balkans will be effectively finished. The alarm at Kosovo independence, then, stems not so much from concerns over Kosovo per se (much less the laughable peans to international legal precedent), but rather from unease at the dimunition of Serbia (both territorially and politically) and the creation of yet another Balkan state that is sure to join NATO.
Frankly, things don't look so great for Russia on this front. Kosovo or not Kosovo, it's unlikely that the United States, or NATO, would be able to peel Serbia away from Russia (especially with Russia prepared to do just about anything to keep Serbia friendly). But it is very much possible that the lure of EU membership could draw Serbia into the fold.
"Does our recognition improve our public standing in Europe? or anywhere else (the Muslim world)?"
American Observer replies:
Darden, it was the right thing to do. After years of genocide and years of divorce, it was obvious that the Serbs and the Kosovars do not love each other or respect each other, and the only thing that could hold Kosovo inside the Serb Republic was simple violence. Helping Kosovo become independent means that the Serbs and the Kosovars can start building their own cultures and societies on something except war.
How does that help America? It helps America because we can now been seen standing where we have always stood -- doing what is right, and helping the weak protect themselves from the strong. The Serbs and the Russians may hate us, for a time; but make no mistake, the Russians have never thanked us for letting the Russians run roughshod over Chechnya; instead, the Russians have sneered at us and made trouble everywhere else; and the Serbs would never have thanked us for allowing them to hold Kosovo through more violence. Recognizing Kosovo has given us nothing except intangibles, but pretending that Kosovo is still part of Serbia would have given us even less. As it stands, America remains the mainstay of freedom and safety in Europe. That is where Europe expects us to be, and that is why Nato still exists and that is why we still lead Nato.
Darden Cavalcade says:
"Does our recognition address an important US geopolitical objective in the region? Is there realpolitik behind this boon granted to Kosovars?"
American Observer replies:
No. Serbia has very little to offer and Kosovo has less. If we were simply operating from our own self-interest, we would have helped the strongest Balkan power -- the Serbs -- dominate their neighbors. Nonetheless, as I said above, doing the right thing puts us in the position where Europe and the world expect us to be.
Darden Cavalcade says:
"....right now I don't see why we should care whether one group of goons or another is in charge of Kosovo."
American Observer replies:
I think you are oversimplifying. When the Serbian goons ruled Kosovo, the Serbs filled ten meat truck full of dead civilians and drove them into the Daunube; and the Serbs would have done a lot more if Nato had not stopped them. I will be the first to admit that the Kosovars are one of the most primitive races in Europe; but even primitives have rights, and I see no reason to believe that independence will inspire the Kosovars to massacre anyone. After all, the Kosovars have centuries of grudges of their own, but the Kosovars want to be part of Europe and they need to live within limits that Nato and the European Union establish.
For those who believe the US was correct in recognizing Kosovar independence, can you explain to me what American national interest was served with our recognition? I reject as implausible the idea that poking Russia early and often is an American national interest.
Does our recognition improve our public standing in Europe? or anywhere else (the Muslim world)?
Does our recognition address an important US geopolitical objective in the region? Is there realpolitik behind this boon granted to Kosovars?
It would be helpful to understand how our position helps the United States, because right now I don't see why we should care whether one group of goons or another is in charge of Kosovo.
I can not help but see the parallel between Kosovo and Chechnya – in one case Russia was able to retake its rebel republic with its full military might, in the case of Kosovo, Nato intervened and now Kosovo has declared independence – illegally I might add. There are two operative lessons here.
1) If a country wants its sovereignty respected – by the west, it must be strong enough and its people must have the will to fight for it. While I am not an apologist for Milosevic – he shares some of the blame (along with people like Tudman) for what happened in the bloody break up of Yugoslavia, although he had been made a convenient scapegoat in the western media, he was ABSOBLUTELY right in fighting the terrorists from KLA, an organization that the US state department once branded as terrorist organization!! NATO’s argument of intervening on humanitarian grounds was baseless. No doubt, there were civilian casualties in the conflict, but there are civilian casualties in every conflict. So why is that Kosovo Albanians died at the hands of Serbia security force were considered victims of Serb “genocide”, while innocent Iraqis, by the thousands, met their death at the hands of their foreign occupiers are called collateral damage? Why is NATO not moved by the plight of Palestinian people – are Palestinians less human than Kosovo Albanians? Talk about hypocrisy!!
2) There are no international laws, but the laws of jungle that governs the international relations today. The west and US, in particular, can twist and turn any and all UN resolution to suit its needs. The talk of western respect for rule of law is nothing but a myth perpetuated by a sophisticated western propaganda machine – aka western media.
Russia needs to enter the 21st century and stop with the 19th century diplomacy which sees the world as a threat to its borders. Now hear this Putin, no country out there wants to invade your country. They are interested in developing their own countries and economies by permitting their people the freedom to pursue their personal creative destiny. A free Kosovo, a democratic Kosovo might mean a successful, thriving country on Russia's border exposing this autocratic Russian government as the failure it is and will remain. Not a comparison Putin's gang wants Russia's people to see up close.
This Russia is similar to all of the previous Russias going back centuries, a managing armed gang leverages fear of the rest of the world to maintain a choke hold on its population for the benefit of the few at the top. Thus, the Russian people will fall farther and farther behind most of the world's modern states culturally, economically, etc.. Eventually, this oil gusher will end and when it does it will become clear that Russian has once again misunderstood and ignored its true national resource: its people.
The U. S. should recognize Kosovo because it is the right thing to do. It might not benefit the current Russian thugs running the country, but in the long run, it will be beneficial to the people who live in today's Russia as a future argument for true democracy and a free market economy. South Korea vs. North Korea? Not exactly, but the same idea. Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia? Closer, same idea.
DANILOD writes:
"CD has his/her heart in place, but does not exhibit enough knowledge of facts or Sherlockian mind to cut through all the crap, smoke, and falsehoods in order to come to the just and true conclusion."
Well Sherlock, the facts themselves are in dispute. This is a century old conflict in which at least two living generations are not willing to give any ground and compromise. So what is the just conclusion and who will make that determination? Clearly the Serbs and Kosovars have two different ideas as to what is just. All I'm submitting is that I believe this generation of Serbs and Kosovars are too angry and hurt to make amends right now. Furthermore I think it's unrealistic to think that a century old conflict will be resolved in such a short time frame. As we've seen so many times throughout history, it can take decades to resolve generational struggles like this. I think that both sides should embrace this time apart and look inward. If a just resolution is out there, it will take time and reflection on all sides to find it. Everyone will know when that time has arrived, but it clearly isn't now.
CD writes"
"For the first time, I think I believe the negotiators. All of whom seemed to indicate that they just couldn't find any common ground. With so much finger pointing happening between the Serbs and Kosovars, it was just impossible to untangle the mess. Sometimes it's just best to start over."
CD has his/her heart in place, but does not exhibit enough knowledge of facts or Sherlockian mind to cut through all the crap, smoke, and falsehoods in order to come to the just and true conclusion.
The Ahtissari plan was part and parcel of the whole plot of deception from the ottset to get Molisevic and punish the Serbs. According to it, IF there was no agreement between KLA and Serbia within a prescribed time, then independence would be declared. THEREFOR, why in heaven's name would the Abanians agree? The USA was THE guarantor, sealed by a kiss by the US Secretary of state for the whole world to see on TV at Rambouillet>
The recognition of Kosovo arises from one incontrovertible fact: there is nothing that Serbia can so or say that will interest or scare other nations in the least. It is a weak, inconsequential country. Don't overthink the analysis, pseudo-intelligentsia.
As for precedent, the entire 20th century is filled with tales of nations interfering with each other's internal affairs, recognizing and aiding secessionist movements. Kosovo hardly comes out of the blue.
Of course nobody is going to start recognizing every region that would want to break off from Russia or China. That would be absurd.
Kosovo is for the people of Kosovo. If Russia can give humanitarian aid to improve the lives of the people of Kosovo, send money not bullets. Let them live in peace.
How many can point to mistreatment somewhere in their family tree? History has not been kind to every generation. Can we afford to make right every injustice? Or should our efforts concentrate on getting it right going forward? Better world governance should trump unilateralist/exceptionalist with a coalition of vested interests. When will the world see true multilateral leadership from United States?
Would it be heresy to simply admit that none of us really knows what's going on in the minds of Putin, Bush, etc -- and that therefore we really don't have a clue as to why these fellows are making such a big deal over a patch of insignificant dirt? Aren't a lot of us simply speculating why the leaders do what they do, hypothesizing about how their minds work, and guessing about how each party thinks it will benefit by backing one side or the other? I for one am willing to simply say, 'I don't know what makes government leaders tick... and I probably never will'.... The other obvious question, 'Should I care?' I leave to others....
For the first time, I think I believe the negotiators. All of whom seemed to indicate that they just couldn't find any common ground. With so much finger pointing happening between the Serbs and Kosovars, it was just impossible to untangle the mess. Sometimes it's just best to start over.
Frankly, it's both of their faults. In situations like this it's hard to believe that one side is all wrong and one side is right. I'll concede that maybe that was the case. Maybe Kosovars are victims in this. But there didn't seem to be a "Rwandan" moment from anyone in Serbia forthcoming. The only way that Kosovo was going to remain under control of Serbia is if Serbia came forth with a major conciliatory gesture from it's leadership all the way down to the grass roots level. With the wounds still open, that just wasn't going to happen.
But good fences make good neighbors. With time apart, maybe the next generation or two will find a way to turn a good neighborly relationship into a reunification. People are people and sometimes two people need to take a step back, let emotions subside, reflect and take responsibility for his or her own actions, then reach out and try to make it work again later. In the case of nations, that time apart can be generations. But it is what it is.
I don't think there's any need to even argue about it. It's just not going to happen any other way.
If the U.S. responds to a Latino secessionist movement in California by terrorizing civilians in Los Angeles, San Diego, and California, dumping thousands of Latino bodies in mass graves, driving the Latino population from their homes, creating a refugee crisis; and the international community intervenes to prevent another massacre of the kind it witnessed just a few years earlier in the breakaway Republic of Texas; and after intervening, if the international community sets up a process to resolve final status of California, and the U.S. fails to negotiate in good faith, while California, under an international peacekeeping force, establishes democratic institutions, and its people vote in a referendum for independence, and finally---after nine years---if California declares its independence, then it would be OK for the international community to recognize California's independence, even if California has a problem with criminal gangs and the drug trade."
American Observer says:
What a wonderful tour-de-force, Poster. I was going to write something like it, but I am at work and too many things have gotten in the way. Good job!
Let's stop pretending that the US or even NATO is interested in defending anyone for reasons other than profit and greed. Why did we attack Iraq? Because they had weapons? That was the first lie. The second lie was saying we attacked because the Iraqi people were being oppressed. That was never why. If we care about oppressed people, there are lots of places in this world we should bomb. Or maybe the outdated organization called NATO went to 'defend' Kosovo so they could gain control over the Trepca Mine? Thats the real reason we went in there. Stop pretending America has any good intentions in this world other than to rape it of it's resources.
Holbrooke on the floor of a Kosovo Albanian home, discussing with KLA leaders some time BEFOR the USA/NATO bombing.
To disregard the Dayton agreement and UN Resolution 1244 a document was submitted to Milosevic and the KLA. No self-respecting statesman would have signed such a document, nor indeed would KLA.
At this point, on the stairs of the entrance to Rambouillet palace, the US Secretary of State Albright hugged and kissed Hashim Tachi, leader of KLA, following which he signed the document, and thus provided a semi-legal right to bomb Kosovo and Serbia.
Prior to that, a huge refugee camp was constructed in Macedonia, and when the bombings started, the Yu army began its operations in Kosovo. KLA was provided with satellite phones to provide "intelligence" to USA/NATO. And, mass exodus of Kosovo inhabitants started, of Albanians and non-Albanians.
Even without encouragement by KLA, the exodus should be no surprise to any one who has any idea of the small area of Kosovo. And the intensity of USA/NATO bombing could frighten and horrify any sensitive and intelligent viewer of the TV broadcasts.
Independence was promised to people formerly regarded by America authorities as terrorists and common criminals before all this has started.
To speak of "negotiations" about the future of Kosovo was hypocrisy and deception. The endgame was ready years earlier.
The fall of the USSR allowed America and its "satellites" free to expand the USA super-empire.
I am very sad to see to what low level have fallen my World War II Allies together with the former enemies. During that war, I was dreaming of a better world even as at least 90% of my Battalion perished on the front in in Srem, fighting the Hitler's and his puppet Ustasha army. And I was stupid enough to dream again when the Soviet Empire collapsed with the Berlin wall.
Most of all Russia is afraid of the numerous nationalities within their own country. If these groups all wanted to become independent, there wouuld be a major reduction in size of the country now known as Russia. Consider the cis-caucasus for example.
This is an interesting article. Given Russia's nuclear arsensal, oil reserves, and geopolitical importance for nuclear proliferation, North Korea, Iran, and Europe, the U.S. must take internal Russian opinion into account in making its foreign policy decisions. Our decision to recognize Kosovo was right on the merits - Kosovo was de facto independent already and was a recent victim of ethnic cleansing. But this decision probably made little sense from a real-politic perspective. The U.S. got no tangible benefit from the recognition, and further antagonized a vital partner in many U.S. national security interests.
1. Islamic terrorism is BAD, except when it's the KLA in Kosovo.
2. The U.S. Constitution considers treaties, such as United Nations treaty, the supreme law of the land. The U.S. respects its treaty obligations, except when the U.S. attacks a sovereign nation without the authority of the U.N. Security Council, as was done with the bombing of Serbia.
3. War in Bosnia could have been prevented by an agreement reached among the three parties in 1991, except that the U.S. told the Bosniaks they could get a better deal, so Izetbegović withdrew his consent. The Dayton agreement was basically the same as the 1991 Carrington-Cutileiro peace plan, except the Dayton agreement was brokered by the U.S. and the 1991 agreement was not.
4. Any group supported by the terrorist government of Iran is BAD, except when Iranian policy agrees with U.S. policy, such as promoting a Muslim Bosnia.
5. The U.S. will prevent ethnic cleansing under a policy of humanitarian intervention, except when the victims are Serbs, as when Croatia expelled 300,000 from Krajina.
6. The U.S. main stream media will present both sides of any important foreign policy issue, except in the Balkans, where the Serbs are always BAD, and everybody else is always GOOD, even the Islamic terrorists.
I've always considered Russians a hearty group, certainly among the toughest, most resilient peoples in the world. Yet, reading this article makes them sound rather insecure. I remember quite clearly President Bush's attmepts to form a close relationship with President Putin during his first term. At times Bush was so effusive in his adoration for Putin that it was akward if not embarrassing for Americans. I think most Americans have become frustrated with its government's continued acceptance of Russia's own anti-democratic tendnancies, including political assassinations at home and abroad. The Russian government should be able to manage Russia however they see fit and without American interference, but to suggest we should not stand up to a monster like Slobadon Milosevic, or to now smother our democratic ideals so as not to appear to be bullying Russia is ridiculous.
"American Observer, so when the percentage of Latinos in California reaches 75 percent (some predictions say this could be by 2050, or earlier), a new independent nation should be created?"
Poster replies:
If the U.S. responds to a Latino secessionist movement in California by terrorizing civilians in Los Angeles, San Diego, and California, dumping thousands of Latino bodies in mass graves, driving the Latino population from their homes, creating a refugee crisis; and the international community intervenes to prevent another massacre of the kind it witnessed just a few years earlier in the breakaway Republic of Texas; and after intervening, if the international community sets up a process to resolve final status of California, and the U.S. fails to negotiate in good faith, while California, under an international peacekeeping force, establishes democratic institutions, and its people vote in a referendum for independence, and finally---after nine years---if California declares its independence, then it would be OK for the international community to recognize California's indenpendence, even if California has a problem with criminal gangs and the drug trade.
Interesting that according to this article the US fully endorses breaking up other countries by helping secessionist, especially in light of out own history when well know civil war over that tore our country apart to prevent such an action.
I'd like to think I'm an open-minded person who tries to look at things from neither a western or eastern, but human attitude. The situation in Kososvo is not unlike what we've seen before in eastern Europe. The breaking apart of a hastily thrown together conglomerate of peoples in what the world knew as Yugoslavia has been a hard thing for most of us to watch. Like with Charles Darwin's natural selection, we witnessed the stronger groups and alliances within oppress the weaker to the detriment of millions of people who neither chose or pushed their own ethnicity on others. For the better part of 3 decades, we've seen a gradual regression of a once-civilized part of Europe back to an existence that was probably less civilized than the area had been during the Renaissance! Out of all this, we are now FINALLY witnessing the re-birth of that civilization in the form of a resurgent minority that could care less what western or eastern politicians think regarding its effects on them. On one side, you have a powerful west that sees a newly-independent Kososvo as another playing card that changes the dynamic of it's monied interests in the region and on the other side is a weak, paranoid east that sees itself losing yet another playing card in an already west-heavy stacked deck. Maybe these political poker players might best be served by taking a step out of their iron boots and walking a mile in some Kosovan sandals....maybe then, and only then, might they see themselves in the mirror of human spirit that shines now in Kosovo as it did when their own nations were born!
If you want to know what it's like to have the shoe on the other foot, have Russia recognize Quebec's independence (after all, there are already signs at the main highway entrances to Quebec City that read, "Welcome to the Nation's Capital"). Then have Russia offer to support and nurture the new independent state of Quebec, encourage its pursuit of Russian values and culture, and perhaps offer to train the fledgling Quebec Armed Forces from a new Russian military base.
How do you think that'd go over in Washington? Russia sees Washington creeping closer, closer every day, agitating the restive among satellite populations and stirring up revolution, negotiating for new American military bases on their doorstep. After claiming to be a friend to Russia, and then continuing to follow the same old cold war prescription, it is hardly astonishing or ungrateful that Russia does not trust America - and there, they are comfortably with the majority. Unchallenged American domination of every aspect of world affairs was a stated goal of the Bush administration when it assumed power; it's not as if America's "enemies" were making it up.
Russia's done some horrible things during its own foreign policy and expansionist efforts, and they have a lot to answer for. However, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
I agree. We should not have recognized Kosovo. How would we like it in say 100 years when California or Texas are a majority Mexican and China or Russia acknowledged the demands of these people to make and independent state. Not very far reaching. We should not have gotten involved in Kosovo from the beginning. No wonder Russia is taking an adverserial position with Iran and Syria.
"The ill- advised recognition of breakaway Kosovo is a pathetic appeasement by some western powers to the Muslim world, which perceives them as hostile to Muslims and Islam. The West figures that by "liberating" Kuwait and egging Kosovo on to secede from its motherland will wipe out all that hostility that have been building against them since the First Crusade War."
American Observer:
I have never heard anyone say any of that. I have never heard anyone say that the liberation of Kuwait was an attempt to 'appease' the Moslems. After all, most Moslem radicals supported Saddam and wanted Saddam to control Kuwait and the rest of the Persian Gulf as well. If anything, our liberation of Kuwait had the effect of provoking and enraging a lot of Moslem radicals. As for Kosovo, only the Russians and the Serbs have suggested that the West 'encouraged' the Kosovars to leave Serbia. Everyone else recognizes that helping Kosovo has cost a lot of time and money, and all independent experts agree that the West has practically begged the Kosovars to find a way to reconcile with the Serbs. Unfortunately, the Serbs have murdered too many Kosovars for the Kosovars to forget.
"Observer," we both know that Putin is a gangster and Putin tells a lot of lies. Where did you get your stories? Did you invent your stories yourself, or did you get them from one of Putin's propaganda rags?
The basic error here is the confounding of Serbian war crimes with its legitimate national interests.
Yes, we should be concerned about ethnic Albanians being abused by some Serbs. This is a tragic theme in the 1990s. Why there could not be a cohabitation of conflicting interests illustrates a failure of Western diplomatic imagination.
Why could not Russia been involved in the problem?
If for no other reason, than to expose to the world their true intentions, and maybe find an extract of legitimate ethic blending as was found under Tito?
The Kosovo partition is not unlike making the battle of the Alamo part of Mexico.
The opportunity of ethnic re-blending in mutual respect and peace may been eclipsed by the political actions of NATO and UN as well as the United States.
I accept that for the time being there is no possibility of agreement between the West and Russia on this issue; for our values are fundamentally at odds. The Russians, for whatever reason, have acquired an affinity for centralized order at the expense of everything else. I have no doubt that the average Russian reads Richard Holbrooke's quote quite differently from the average westerner. They cannot comprehend why an American diplomat would actually care about Kosovo's self determination. They assume that Holbrooke must be using Kosovo as a pretext to further humiliate a fallen enemy. Freedom, even their own, is far down the list of Russian priorites. This is why, after the fall of Soviet Communism, they were so quick to surrender their new found freedoms to the first Chekist to come along.
Russia was on the wrong, and ultimately losing, side during the Kosovo conflict. How would Russians justify the mass murder of Kosovars during that conflict? It is understandable for Kosovars to want to cut ties with a Government that waged war against them. What is Russia's justification for keeping the two together? It appears to me that the Russian Government and their Dictator for Life, Putin, are simply mad that Kosovo actually respect and appreciates what America did for them. Their anger is componded by their realization that only terrible, dictatorial backwater countries actual want Russias input and support. Russia has only its Government and citizenry to blame for their standing in the world. Americans maybe wide eyed idealist when they go into the world to "do right," but at least the effort is usually in earnest. Russia has only ever gone into the world to "do what is right for Russia."
It is difficult to understand why Western Nations, especially the United States, continue the anti-Russian dialogue. Russia, Putin, and its Duma are not error free, nor are others. Russia has much to offer in time as their strength improves. I welcome writers, political pundits, journalists that have some depth of reason.
If someone wonders why Albanians refused to live under Serbia, take a look at the link how Serbia treats its citizens and then you can guess how much the care about non-Serbs.
If someone wonders why Albanians refused to live under Serbia, take a look at the link how Serbia treats its citizens and then you can guess how much the care about non-Serbs.
Backing independence for Kosovo is indeed a bad precedent, for reasons that go far beyond Russia and its current concerns.
This is not part of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, in which ethnic areas that were not part of Serbia were pushed into a new nation (Yugoslavia) and held there by Tito.
Kosovo has been part of Serbia for centuries, and for most of that time had a large-majority Serbian and Christian population. When Albania and other countries occupied by the Muslim Turks converted to Islam, Serbia and its province, Kosovo, remained Christian. Their staunch opposition to the Turks culminated in a great battle in Kosovo that is still celebrated.
But in recent decades, the mix changed drastically as more and more Albanians moved into Kosovo and the birth rate for that ethnic group outstripped that of Serbian families, leading in a fairly short time to a predominantly Muslim and Albanian majority.
Only months before the U.S. and other NATO members decided to weigh in on the side of the Kosovo independence movement, the U.S. State Department had labeled the Kosovo Liberation Army as a terrorist organization. This was because the KLA had bombed police stations and assassinated Serbian police and politicians. (If this happened in the United States, would we hail the KLA assassins as freedom fighters?)
Of course, in the end NATO bombed both Serbian military units and the infrastructure of cities in Serbia, as well as a group of Chinese journalists.
What does all of this bode for the future? Consider that rapidly expanding ethnic minorities which do not agree with the culture of their host nations exist in France, the Netherlands, Great Britain and other countries including the U.S.
When some of these minorities become majorities in parts of their host nations and demand independence, will NATO and the U.S. start bombing to support the "liberation" movements?
Perhaps the movements will demand this, based on the precedent of Kosovo.
The ill- advised recognition of breakaway Kosovo is a pathetic appeasement by some western powers to the Muslim world, which perceives them as hostile to Muslims and Islam. The West figures that by "liberating" Kuwait and egging Kosovo on to secede from its motherland will wipe out all that hostility that have been building against them since the First Crusade War.
"It is almost a universal belief in Russia that the West consistently takes advantage of Russia’s weakness.."
Funny thing, I grew up during the Cold War with the exact same belief in reverse- that the Soviets, in those days, took advantage of U.S. weakness. There were many examples held up to us, from the days of the blockade that spawned the Berlin Airlift right through to Afghanistan, which spawned that which we know all too well today. But we survived even so. And so will Russia.
Kosovo, and its recent rise to independence.
During the Clinton Administration, when we bombed
Serbia, it was to halt the Genocide being committed by Serbia against Kosovo. We owe the world a review of the circumstances that led to the present situation, and we owe nothing to Russia, who, if anything, was a huge obstruction to our efforts. We succeeded in spite of Russia, who , as I recall, sent a column of tanks to try to intercept our good intentions.
Notwithstanding Ms. Lipman's disclaimer at the beginning of her post here, it seems perfectly evident that Russia's agenda in the Balkans is being set in Belgrade, not in Moscow.
The dissolution of the Yugoslav state proceeded as it did because the consensus on suppressing ethnic identity that existed under Tito was deliberately shattered by the Serbian leadership under Milosevic, beginning as it happens in Kosovo. The Serbians thereafter gave every reason for non-Serbian Kosovars to want to leave Serbia, and but for Western intervention would have gone much farther than they did. Throughout, Russia stood resolutely not behind its own interests, but behind those of the Serbs. It now feels humiliated because it was unable to serve as the Serbs muscle, not because it had ceded and continues to cede judgment as to what is in Russia's interest to a foreign government.
This is not the way a truly great power behaves. It raises questions as to how genuine or durable Russia's late revival really is. It Russia really "back," or are Russians merely indulging a petro-illusion?
We live in a shrinking more dangerous world. If not careful we could link up the middle east tinder box to the balkan one. Turkey attacks northern Iraq nervous of the intent of Kurds and ever wary of a future Kurdistan. If Serbia is divisible, is Kosovo? Who protects minorites when the status quo falters? Is the U.S. with Britain, France, Germany etc. (most of the EU) a coalition not unlike the Iraq one carrying odious connotations? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Was the groundwork done sufficiently before encouraging and recognizing Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence? There is a problem and seemingly irreconcilable differences but without a wider consensus and a better probability of success, should the trigger have been pulled now? It is not just Russia that views with rapt interest.
Changing the status of Kosovo from one of full autonomy to one of independence is a bad idea and not just because it infuriates the Serbs and Russians and encourages independence movements in Spain, Russia, Georgia and elsewhere. Kosovo is a non-viable state by almost any standard. It is tiny, landlocked, devoid of natural resources, poverty stricken with a relatively small educated class. It will be a state on the dole for the forseeable future. Better to maintain its current status as a de facto protectorate of the United States and the EU.
We live in a shrinking more dangerous world. If not careful we could link up the middle east tinder box to the balkan one. Turkey attacks northern Iraq nervous of the intent of Kurds and ever wary of a future Kurdistan. If Serbia is divisible, is Kosovo? Who protects minorites when the status quo falters? Is the U.S. with Britain, France, Germany etc. (most of the EU) a coalition not unlike the Iraq one carrying odious conotations? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Was the groundwork done sufficiently before encouraging and recognizing Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence? There is a problem and seemingly irreconcilable differences but without a wider consensus and a better probability of success, should the trigger have been pulled now? It is not just Russia that views with rapt interest.
Has Russia made one positive contribution to the whole Kosovo debate? Their behavior in the negotiations has consisted entirely of accusing the West of arrogance and bullying while it has brought nothing to the table. What is the Russian solution to the whole Serbian mess? To go on pretending that the Serbian government did not sponsor a genocidal campaign against Kosovars in the 1990s? Have the Russians (or Serbs) offered any vision of a Kosovo where non-Serbs can live in peace?
"A nation that continually reasserts its unilateral doctrine (the Monroe Doctrine) of supremacy over two continents, its spheres of influence, has a lot of nerve criticizing Russia for attempting to dominate the affairs of nations on its borders."
American Observer replies:
Chuck B? I hate to mention it, but you are repeating Marxist koolaide. The Monroe Doctrine does not 'assert supremacy over two continents.' Nothing could be further from the truth. America proclaimed the Monroe Doctrine two hundred years ago, when America was still too weak to assert supremacy over Oregon, let alone Brazil. The only thing the Monroe Doctrine stated was that we would not try to overthrow European rule in colonies which the Europeans still had, but that we would protect the independence of countries which had already driven out the Europeans. That is why we sent the guns which the Mexicans used to drive out the French on 'El Cinco De Mayo,' and that is why we kept the Nazis from occupying the French and Dutch colonies in the Caribean when the Nazis occupied France and Holland, before America entered the Second World War. That is why we kept the Soviet Empire from seizing colonies in Bolivia and Greneda.
As an American I am proud of the fact that America has done so much to protect the independence of the nations of the New World, just as I am proud that we have done so much to bring down the Nazi and Soviet Empires. I am proud that we are smacking Putin's claws in Ukraine and Kosovo, and I hope we continue to stand behind nations like Kosovo and Ukraine. As for you, Chuck -- if you want to write about history, you should go read some of it first.
The Kosovo issue is not over yet. The media ball around this subject is rolling. I’ve watched carefully, these days, all the newspapers and TV shows that have discussed the Kosovo issue and, implicitly, the issue of territorial autonomy of the szeklers population in Covasna and Harghita counties. Judging objectively, I think there are some partial conclusions that can drawn, conclusions based on the fact that I was borne in Sfantu Gheorghe, Covasna County, and I have lived there for 25 years.
Whether Romania likes it or not, the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR) has, at the present moment, the possibility to do what the Albanians from Kosovo did. At a governmental level, UDMR has representatives in all the administrative institutions. There is not a single ministry or public agency which doesn’t have a Hungarian clerk, a secretary of state or a simple secretary, both ethnic Hungarians. At the local level, in Covasna and Harghita counties, the ethnic Hungarians living in Romania have rights that ethnic Romanians living in France and Greece, countries that do not recognize ethnic minorities, don’t even dream about: newspapers and radios in Hungarian, Hungarian coat of arms, Hungarian flag, Hungarian national anthem, teaching system starting from the first grade up to college exclusively in Hungarian, economical associations built exclusively on the principle of the membership to the Hungarian minority. If we add to that the territory and the population we have the premises of an independence of Szeklers Land in the hearth of Romania.
Secondly, by not recognizing Kosovo, Romania is pointing out, at least in my opinion, that it has a problem on its territory, the szeklers problem. Don’t get me wrong, I am not implying that the szeklers as people are a problem. What I am trying to say is that due to their leader’s political speech, the Hungarian community in Romania presents itself in a bad light. And what do countries that don’t recognize Kosovo have in common? They are all states with ethnic issues and territorial claims, just like Romania.
Furthermore I do not understand why Romania is so friendly towards Serbia. What do we get by supporting them? Ethnic Romanians, from Serb Timoc are terrorized and assimilated, submitted to a ferocious process of ethnic assimilation. There are no newspapers in Romanian nor is there a Romanian minister in the Belgrade Government. The ethnic Romanian community in Serbia barely managed to build up a church although the religious service in Romanian is forbidden in Serbia.
Further more, one of the biggest stupidities is the speech of Romanian politicians and political annalists is the idea that without UDMR in the government the things will blow up right now. The cultural association called UDMR, which pretends to be a political party, is a kind of evolved political species without which the Romanian State will disappear. Just like the idiots that say that without bishop Laszlo Tokes there would have not been the Romanian Revolution in 1989, there are a lot of political annalists that stand by the idea that the exclusion of UDMR from the Romanian Government would be a catastrophe for Romania. UDMR is posing as a victim of the electoral system reform, estimating that the Hungarians in Romania will no longer be represented in a proportional way in the Romanian Parliament.
None the less, if you look at the speeches of Hungarian leaders at their reunions, held in Hungarian, you will se that they are full of venom and threats at the state integrity of Romania. Still, if you look at the same Hungarian leaders on public and private televisions these days you will see that they are very humble and that they do nothing else but deny the attacks on Romania’s integrity. The Hungarian cultural association’s discourse is now the one of “we can do more but we will settle for less”, Romania being blackmailed in the way of: “Romanian’s, if we want we can get the independence because USA and EU is supporting that, so give us the territorial autonomy if you want to be at peace”.
The Hungarian community in Romania, along with their leaders, forgets an important aspect: the independence of Kosovo was built on the corpse of thousands of Albanians and Serbs. I say that it is much more intelligent of us to be happy that on the streets of Covasna and Harghita counties we can hear the sound of children playing instead of bombs and tanks. May God clear up our minds!
American Observer, so when the percentage of Latinos in California reaches 75 percent (some predictions say this could be by 2050, or earlier), a new independent nation should be created?
A nation that continually reasserts its unilateral doctrine (the Monroe Doctrine) of supremacy over two continents, its spheres of influence, has a lot of nerve criticizing Russia for attempting to dominate the affairs of nations on its borders. Our government and many of its citizens become righteously indignant whenever it is suggested that we are an Empire which seeks global domination. I am not sure, then, what one would call a nation that insists on exclusive domination of its neighbors' affairs while continually meddling in the affairs of nations far from its borders. At the least we appear to be very self-righteous and egoistic.
Good afternoon! (I ask a pardon for my bad English!)
I lived 10 years in Israel (at me the Israeli citizenship) and as thousand left for Israel in 1991 - in 1998 I have returned to Russia, to Moscow! Last ten years I live in Moscow. In Russia it is a lot of still problems (social and economic character), but these problems have no attitude to about what write every day the American newspapers! I having visited many countries, would tell so: Russia - NEW, Russia-HAS changed, and the USA - have remained in 80th years!" Cold war " and propagation against Russia NEVER came to an end and it is the fact, many clever people in Israel and all over the world understand it! As soon as Russia became weak in 90 - America and the West as a whole at once have started to use this weakness in the purposes: to expand NATO, to finance the footmen Yuschenko, Saakashvili, to create military bases in the Europe and in Asia, to conduct the antiRussian propagation in all directions!America always considered strong Russia and considers as threat of the hegemony, to the sovereignty! I, as well as many my Israeli friends we consider, that America has made a historical mistake when in 90 has started to support drunkard Yeltsin and to help it to plunder Russia when has started to cover thieves and gangsters who plundered Russian people, to use weakness of Russia, to finance tyrants in Georgia and Ukraine, naming their democrats! America in the future will very dearly pay for this mistake, since for 95 % of Russians today, America is an enemy! Putin is the most westernized politician from possible for today in Russia, but to vegetables of cold war, such as Bush and чейни it to not understand, they live still a policy 80! In Russia all people considers, that on expansion of NATO it is necessary to return bases to Cuba, necessary to build new nuclear rockets, the ships, to distribute the Russian-Chinese influence by the same ways as it is done by America! Why it "is possible" for America, and Russia, or still someone "IS impossible" for China, Iran, Canada??? Really you think, what writing down every year all the new and new countries in " an axis of a harm " America remains the influential country? America harms to Russia in economy where can, for example, agitates to build oil pipelines and gas mains around of Russia... And as you look at if China or Russia will finance and will change a mode in Mexico (which has come to power very doubtful by!) also will start with Mexico to sell oil " around of America "? The world has changed! If America wants, that with it respected - IT SHOULD RESPECT with OTHERS, Including Russia! STOP FOR THE BEGINNING TO CONDUCT the IMPUDENT, FALSE PROPAGATION AGAINST Putin And Russia!
well by accusing me of demonizing Kosovar which I am clearly not doing if anyone bothers to read what I have written you are hoping for an a chorus of voices to come to slam me...you are very obvious. In any event this is my last exchange with you...look at what you write !...there is something more than weird, even off balanced about your personal attacks...
"Lisa is just repeating Serb accusations because those accusations make 'the straight white males' of America look bad. We call this pathology 'Spoiled White Girl From The Suburbs Syndrome."
"in any event as I said it will be interesting to see what Condi means by " international supervision" ...sounds like nice words for ocupation or maybe a system like the British Mandate in palestine....who knows what will be cooked up..."
American Observer replies:
Why should anything be 'cooked up?' I mean, 'occupation' and 'independence' are clearly opposites, and the 'British Mandate' hardly included the kind of free elections that the Kosovars are holding. Why reach for these bogus comparisons? After all, America and Britain have both had soldiers in Germany for sixty years, but nobody imagines that there is anything 'cooked up' about Germany's democracy. Lisa, aren't you just demonizing the Kosovars and everyone who supports them again?
Separatists movements have a long history... and now perhaps an even bigger future...especially NOW with the unilateral proclamation of Kosovo's independence...its immediate recognition by the US and by GB, France,Germany...in any event as I said it will be interesting to see what Condi means by " international supervision" ...sounds like nice words for ocupation or maybe a system like the British Mandate in palestine....who knows what will be cooked up...
"and this is only the beginning of what will eventually be a big headache felt around the world..."
American Observer replies:
The begining, Lisa? The ABSOLUTE beginning? Wow, I would have thought this trend began when Bangaledesh left Pakistan, or when Eritrea left Ethiopia. I would have thought this trend began when Ukraine left Russia, or when Slovenia left Yugoslavia, or when Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke up. Indeed, I might have thought that it began when the Irish left the United Kingdom. However, if Lisa tells us that rebel provinces first started getting independence when Kosovo left Serbia, Lisa must be right, so I guess the Kosovars will have quite a burden of responsibility. Oh, my...
It's very nice statement by the State Dept.
It will be interesting to see "period international supervision " defined .
However, this of course is Bull Sh-t...many peoples can make the same claim....
"The unusual combination of factors found in the Kosovo situation -- including the context of Yugoslavia's breakup, the history of ethnic cleansing and crimes against civilians in Kosovo, and the extended period of UN administration -- are not found elsewhere "
And this is WHY Kosovo for better or worse is setting precedent...
and this is only the beginning of what will eventually be a big headache felt around the world...
"I am not taking Serbia's side...but this divorce should have been negotiated..."
American Observer replies:
Lisa, Serbia started war against Kosovo almost a generation ago, and we have had a ceasefire for nine years. Serbia has had nine years to 'negotiate' this divorce, and the Kosovars and Nato both waited patiently for the Serbs to 'negotiate.' Now, look out the window and tell us what you see. Do you see any Serbs doing any negotiating? If you see them, nobody else does.
Lisa, The Serbs are still brooding over a military defeat seven hundred years ago, and the Serbs would have waited another seven hundred years to negotiate. That is why the Kosovars decided to quit waiting and get on with their lives. If you have been stuck in the middle of a homicidal divorce for nine years, you would have done the same.
You did take Serbia's side in your earlier posts, and you did that by using a typical Serbian line of shameful propaganda.
At any rate, since you seem to rely so much in State Deapartment's reasoning concerning Kosovo, here you have the perfect explanation as to why US supports Kosovo's independence:
"U.S. Recognizes Kosovo as Independent State
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Washington, DC
February 18, 2008
The United States has today formally recognized Kosovo as a sovereign and independent state. We congratulate the people of Kosovo on this historic occasion.
President Bush has responded affirmatively to a request from Kosovo to establish diplomatic relations between our two countries. The establishment of these relations will reaffirm the special ties of friendship that have linked together the people of the United States and Kosovo.
Nine years ago, the international community, led by NATO, acted to end brutal attacks on the Kosovar Albanian population. This timely international intervention ended the violence, leading to a United Nations Security Council decision to suspend Belgrade’s governance and place Kosovo under interim UN administration. Since that time Kosovo has built its own democratic institutions separate from Belgrade’s control. Last year, UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari developed a plan to build a democratic and multi-ethnic Kosovo and recommended Kosovo be independent, subject to a period of international supervision. In light of the conflicts of the 1990s, independence is the only viable option to promote stability in the region. The United States supports the Ahtisaari Plan and will work with its international partners to help implement it.
We welcome the commitments Kosovo made in its declaration of independence to implement the Ahtisaari Plan, to embrace multi-ethnicity as a fundamental principle of good governance, and to welcome a period of international supervision.
The unusual combination of factors found in the Kosovo situation -- including the context of Yugoslavia's breakup, the history of ethnic cleansing and crimes against civilians in Kosovo, and the extended period of UN administration -- are not found elsewhere and therefore make Kosovo a special case. Kosovo cannot be seen as a precedent for any other situation in the world today. http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/02/100973.htm
The United States takes this opportunity to reaffirm our friendship with Serbia, an ally during two world wars. We invite Serbia's leaders to work together with the United States and our partners to accomplish shared goals, such as the protection of the rights, security, culture and livelihood of the Serb community in Kosovo.
As Kosovo today begins its life as an independent state, the United States pledges to continue to be its close friend and partner".
Mikra, it may or may not be erroneous it was part of State Dept documenttaion during the 1990's...
I am not taking Serbia's side...but this divorce should have been negotiated...now the issues raised by Kosov's action need to be thought out, now that this has happened...this is not just about Kosovo ...who gets to redraw the map?, succeed? on what grounds, via what process? Basques of Spain, the Palestinians living in Galilee, and Occupied territories, minorities in Pakistan, the Kurds in Iraq & Turkey...the list goes on...I am sure they will all be interested in how the US,GB, France and Germany answer these questions
".... the KLA funded itself thru drug profits and according to at least one State Dept report (in the 1990's) loans from "fugitive bin Laden"
Is that why KLA became NATO's and State Department's main partner in sweeping Serbian thugs in uniform out of Kosovo in 1999? Is that why Albright, the then Secretary of State, partnered with then commander of KLA, Hashim Thaci(now Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo) to go through Rambouillet peace talks?
Again, this is really a cheap shot.
If you want to argue in the Serbian way, you better switch to their way of arguing, which is detailed in my earlier posts.
Here is a list of wise steps that Serbia could take following Kosovo’s independence:
1. Recognize it
2. Open an Embassy to start building diplomatic relations with its new neighboring COUNTRY
3. Promote Albanian language courses for the benefit of Serbian citizens for two main reasons:
a. Considering that the region is dominated by a large Albanian population and much of the trade is going to occur between Serbs and Albanians, it would help Serbs a lot to speak Albanian just like many Albanians already speak Serbian.
b. As Serbia is a landlocked country following Montenegro’s independence, many Serbs will start planning their vacations to the beautiful Albanian coast; thus, knowing the local language could prove as a great asset for having a great vacation. Otherwise, Serbs will have to resort to spending their vacations in Siberia, where, certainly, they will be “warmly” welcomed by their Slavic brothers.
On the other hand, the Republic of Kosovo along with the European Union would do everything they can to help Serbia move ahead towards its European path. The Prime Minister of Kosovo, has already expressed that he believes that Serbia belongs to Europe and should not hesitate to seek Kosovo’s support in getting there, despite our troubled past. The capital of the Republic, Prishtina, has also expressed its readiness to provide Belgrade with the much needed expertise in democratic governance and political reform. Kosovo has a long tradition of organizing free and democratic elections, so there too, the Kosovo expertise will be crucial in helping the Serbian people to identify leaders with radical and fascist platforms and implement ideas on how they can avoid electing them in the future.
Therefore, for all of those who have been skeptical about Kosovo—Serbia relationship, they are wrong. The Republic of Kosovo will be there for Serbia as it recovers from these difficult times.
No one could argue that Serbia has not comitted atrocities and has never taken responsibility for its actions.
However, the KLA funded itself thru drug profits and according to at least one State Dept report (in the 1990's) loans from "fugitive bin Laden"
It is the UN, US State Dept, and Interpol and US Drug Enforcement Administration (not the Serbs, or certainly me) that charge with verifiable documentation the serious problems in drug trade via Kosovo criminal clans smuggling drugs and minors around the world along the "Balkan Route" This went on during the 1990's briefy interrupted during teh war and started up again immeditately and has continued throughout the "protectorate" years...
There is also an "international law" issue here that can like any law be argued pro or con ...no one is arguing that there should not be a divorce but that it should be negotiated divorce...it is unclear from an international law perspective if Kosovo's action was the correct one to take...
Like most of the geopolitical issues that have surfaced as dicey emotional heart tugging issues in the world this is not a black/ white, right/ wrong situation...
"From what I can understand, the Serbs dislike the Kosvars, and vice-versa. Therefore it may be in the best interest of both if they could live their lives separately..."
American Observer replies:
It sounds like we agree. The relationship between the Serbs and the Kosovars is now so bad that it is not going to get better in our lifetimes. Whether Serbs and Kosovars can ever be friends again is a question for the coming centuries to answer. In the meantime, it would be insane to try to keep the Serbia and Kosovo inside the borders of the same republic.
Steve says:
"Cannot these contrived boundaries be reconfigured to allow the northern section of Kosovo which is predominantly Serbian to be associated with Serbia?"
American Observer replies:
I agree. Moving a few boundaries would make things easier. I wish the Kosovars would suggest it. Perhaps the Serbs could offer some land in exchange.
Rightfully, you brought a lot of facts to this discussion, facts that are out there for anybody to see, Serb, American, Russian, or Albanian. But I tell you something, Serbs don't really like facts. I know this because I lived with them. They just don't feel comfortable with things that can be verified by others. They like myths, fairy tales, and things from distant pasts. That's why they stay there and dont's want to hear what you and I have to say to them. That's why they don't hear anyone from the present, because thy like living in ancient times. In addition, they like to celebrate defeats like that Great Lost Battle of 1389. I wonder how they will celebrate Last Week's Defeat!
I am trying to think of who am I reminded when I hear Serbian interpretation of historical events. Oh yes, that's right: Ahmadinejad! For him Holocaust didn't happen! Millions of Jews gassed themselves to death because they felt like it, just like Serbs seem to suggest that thousands of Albanians rushed into mass graves to make a point -- remember, their bodies are still being dug-up in mass graves in Serbia- I don't know what kind of other evidence would be convincing enough for Serbs!
Serb comments, not only in this blog but elsewhere on the web, are so revealing of what a profound and destructive impact the Serbian radical propaganda has had on its people. I guess it would take years and years of massive psychological counseling to deal with something of this scale.
The hatred that Serbia preaches today is a natural reaction that comes from defeat! As someone who suffered the terrors of Serb regime during the 1990s, I thought that there was nothing worse in the world than being a victim of the Serbian savagery at that time! I was so wrong! Now I understand that the only thing worse than being a victim of that regime was to be the blind believer of it. One can be healed from the former, but the latter is what consumes you.
P.S. It is pathetic when Serbs comment using American and other non-Serb names... a desperate move to have others support their genocidal past.
Thank you all for interesting perspective on a complex and difficult issue. I am sure that most Americans do not have a clue. The issue of states seceding raises intersting issues; the US went through this in the 1860's and it was horrifyingly bloody.
From what I can understand, the Serbs dislike the Kosvars, and vice-versa. Therefore it may be in the best interest of both if they could live their lives separately while they try to resolve their differences.
It seems that much of the strife is aggravated by artificial regional boundaries created during the early, middle and late 20th century. If the Kosovo region, except for the north is predominantly ethnic Albanian, it would appear reasonable for it to be associated with it's neighbor Albania. Cannot these contrived boundaries be reconfigured to allow the northern section of Kosovo which is predominantly Serbian to be associated with Serbia? Would not the elimination of enclaves contrived with the stroke of the pen help to ease tension? Why are none willing to do this?
"Once again, this is the type of garbage that has actually remained of the self-perpetuating pathology of Serbian lies and propaganda."
American Observer says:
Good work, Mikra. Somebody had to tell the truth, and you came and told it. If you want to know, however, there is no chance that Lisa is a Serb, and there is no chance that Lisa feels any commitment to the Serbian cause. Instead, Lisa is just repeating Serb accusations because those accusations make 'the straight white males' of America look bad. We call this pathology 'Spoiled White Girl From The Suburbs Syndrome."
"...gangs who run the drugs and the sex slave trade of minors that drive the underground economy of Kosovo, that corrupt and/kill government officials that don't play along ...because if not...all of Europe will be impacted and infected by these criminal gang..."
Once again, this is the type of garbage that has actually remained of the self-perpetuating pathology of Serbian lies and propaganda.
You know, before the world discovered the true face of the Serbian fascism, Serbs tried to portray Albanians as creatures living on trees. When this racism didn't work in the modern world, the Serbs switched to another desperate mode of attempting to make Kosovo look like some Islamic place infested by islamofascists that would start exporting terrorism across Europe. Then they realized that can't actually make the international community swallow this garbage as Kosovars are the most pro-western, pro-American, non-religious people in the entire continent.
What are they up to now?
You see from the post above. Another pathetically desperate move to try and make the place a criminal heaven. And this is not just from anybody. Slobodan Samardzic, a Serbian minister in charge of the so-called Kosovo affairs, was quoted on BBC a few days ago as saying: "Our aim [Serbian] is to make Kosovo look as a criminal state". Of course they are going to try to do this, just like they tried everything against Kosovo Albanians, but in the end, Kosovars triumphed because the democratic world discovered the true face of Serbian fascism and eventually decided to put a stop to it.
What has remained of Serbia and Serbs today is nothing but empty slogans, resentment, desperation among people, and a moral and political breakdown of leadership.
Or as Mark Mardell of BBC put it today: "Serbian toothless syndrome".
"I always get stuck with some old cudger (or maybe the same ol' cudger) that insists on personalizing and lecturing me here -- "
American Observer says:
Its your personality, Lisa. Most people here take one side or the other and then back up their arguments with logic and evidence. You never do either. In this case, some people support Serbia and some people support Kosovo, but everyone except you recognizes that real choices have real consequences. You cannot see that. Instead, you just toss accusations around like a spoiled little girl without taking responsibility for endorsing a course of action. Thus, you invite lectures -- you seem to demand them.
"Kosovo became majority Albanian the past 25 or so years. After Tito put the Albanians in charge in 1969, they proceeded to cleanse the territory of non-Albanians."
Wikipedia says:
"In 1910, an Albanian uprising spread from Priština and lasted until the Ottoman Sultan's visit to Kosovo in June of 1911. The Aim of the League of Prizren was to unite the four Albanian Vilayets by merging the majority of Albanian inhabitants within the Ottoman Empire into one Albanian State. However, at that time Serbs have consisted about 25% of the whole Vilayet of Kosovo's overall population and were opposing the Albanian rule along with Turks and other Slavs in Kosovo, which disabled the Albanian movements to occupy Kosovo."
American Observer comments:
I went to Wikipedia and read the history of Kosovo. Like other sources, Wikipedia made it clear that the Turks did in fact take Kosovo from the Serbs, and the Turks did oppress the Serbs. Wikipedia also said that Kosovo has been in the process of becoming more Moslem for five hundred years, and that process was almost complete by the beginning of the twentieth century.
However....
Wikipedia says:
"In 1912, during the Balkan Wars, most of Kosovo was taken by the Kingdom of Serbia, while the region of Metohija (Albanian: Dukagjini Valley) was taken by the Kingdom of Montenegro. An exodus of the local Albanian population occurred. This was described by Leon Trotsky, who was a reporter for the Pravda newspaper at the time. The Serbian authorities planned a recolonization of Kosovo.[11] Numerous colonist Serb families moved into Kosovo, equalizing the demographic balance between Albanians and Serbs. Many Albanians fled into the mountains and numerous Albanian and Turkish houses were razed. The reconquest of Kosovo was described as retribution for the 1389 Battle of Kossovo. "
American Observer comments:
So, the pendulum tipped the other way very quickly. The Serbs reconquered Kosovo and began massacring the Kosovars, thus raising the percentage of Serbs in Kosovo.
However...
Wikipedia says:
"The greatest part of Kosovo became a part of Italian-controlled Fascist Albania, and smaller bits by the Tsardom of Bulgaria and Nazi German-occupied Kingdom of Serbia. During the fascist occupation of Kosovo by Albanians, until August 1941 alone, over 10,000 Serbs were killed and between 80,000 and 100,000 Serbs were expelled, while roughly the same number of Albanians from Albania were brought to settle in these Serbian lands."
American Observer replies:
I know we have all heard this before, of course -- it is part of the national mythology of Serbia. Nonetheless, Axis massacres of Serbs tipped the scales back toward a Moslem majority in Kosovo.
And then...
Wikipedia says:
"In the 1970s, an Albanian nationalist movement pursued full recognition as a Republic within the Yugoslav Federation, while extreme elements aimed for full-scale independence. The ethnic balance of Kosovo tilted as the number of Albanians tripled, rising from almost 75% to over 90%, but the number of Serbs barely increased, dropping from 15% to 8% of the total population. Even though Kosovo was the least developed area of the former Yugoslavia, the living and economic prospects and freedoms were far greater than under the totalitarian Hoxha regime in Albania."
American Observer says:
No matter how you choose to view it, Wikipedia and AMVienna are giving completely different stories. Wikipedia says that the Moslems formed more than seventy-five percent of the population of Kosovo in nineteen-seventy, while AMVienna says that the Moslems did not even form a majority until 'the last twenty-five years,' which sounds like after 1982. In fact, if you read Wikipedia closely, Wikipedia indicates that the Moslems have been a majority of the Kosovars since the Second World War.
Either Wikipedia is right or AMVienna is right, and I have far more faith in Wikipedia than I have in AMVienna. Sorry, AMVienna, you are peddling false numbers once again. Anyone who wants to check this out can go to the link at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo
American Observer "Lisa, I am going to remind you, in difficult times real people have to do more than complain and vent their own wounded egotism.."
geesh, I always get stuck with some old cudger (or maybe the same ol' cudger) that insists on personalizing and lecturing me here...interesting...it is a form of stalking...
Before WW2 Serbs made up just about 50% of the Kosovo population. Just before 1999 Serbs made up 15% of the population of Kosovo. Now there is a 5% Serb population in Kosovo. Whose doing the Ethnic Cleansing??
Retired Army Officer :"US wants out of Kosovo for ONE reason. This reason was brought up in most senior level briefings I attended- get our Brigade out of Kosovo. These soldiers are needed elsewhere by an already stretched thin military. The merits of Iraq and Afghanistan are outside the scope of this discussion."
It is really disturing if this was a "driver" or even ONE of the drivers for US actions... if true, it shows the enormous "reach" that all the poor decisions made to wage and execute the Iraq War has had on US foreign and security issues...again, this precedent set by Kosovo is a Slippery Slope...forget Russia's concerns for a moment...what are the US and West going to do when Taiwan pulls a Kosovo?
"....let's hope you are in a position of authority in US government that so that you can make sure that Kosovo receives the great amount of foreign aid it will need. Also hopefully you can build and fund the multi-national force that will be needed to protect the Serb minority in Kosovo..."
American Observer replies:
That is exactly what America and the European Union are doing right now. Remember, Kosovo will need a military presence and economic aid under any circumstance. Even if Kosovo did not declare independence, Kosovo would still need aid and foreign soldiers. Remember, Kosovo was an economic disaster area before Nato intervened, and the Kosovars were being slaughtered before Nato intervened. Remember, we did not ask the Kosovars to declare independence -- the Kosovars have done that for their own reasons. If America lowered itself to your level and decided 'keep our big noses out,' then economic conditions in Kosovo would immediately get ten times worse, and the killings would immediately get a hundred times worse.
Lisa, I am going to remind you, in difficult times real people have to do more than complain and vent their own wounded egotism. Instead, real people have to make real decisions, because, as Winston Churchill said so well, "In times of crisis, words are deeds.' You talk a lot about hope. Well, I 'hope' you have the courage to go back to choices A, B, and C, and make a stand.
Nick Ulaj: Kosovo became majority Albanian the past 25 or so years. After Tito put the Albanians in charge in 1969, they proceeded to cleanse the territory of non-Albanians.
As a matter of fact, the NY Times created term ethnic cleansing to describe what the Albanians have been doing to the non-Albanians. I posted 'have been doing' because churches are still being burned, even under NATO's benevolent gaze.
American Observer"C) Recognize reality by recognizing that Kosovo and Serbia are now divorced, and start building the future?"
Well I am glad to hear that you are all for building Kosovo's future...let's hope you are in a position of authority in US government that so that you can make sure that Kosovo receives the great amount of foreign aid it will need. Also hopefully you can build and fund the multi-national force that will be needed to protect the Serb minority in Kosovo, and this force will aslo be needed to impede the power of the criminal clan gangs who run the drugs and the sex slave trade of minors that drive the underground economy of Kosovo, that corrupt and/kill government officials that don't play along ...because if not...all of Europe will be impacted and infected by these criminal gang...
You know I love America, but I am an American observer too...and the "nation buiding" that is needed here is NOT our strong suite... I wish Kosovo well, but we could be looking at another "Afghanistan" ...only in Europe....
"Affinity with Serbia and the Serbs does not play an important role. Slavic or Orthodox brotherhood may be an issue for those on the nationalist front, but otherwise it’s of little interest here."
Bollocks. The Pan-Slavic theme, and its attendant power projection into the Balkans, have been consistent elements of Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years. It is no secret that Russia has long identified the Balkans as part of "their" sphere of influence, and jealously resisted any attempts at undermining their authority there.
"For moderate Russians, Kosovo’s independence in itself may be OK —it is its recognition by Western countries that matters. Independent political commentators, as well those among the intellectual circles, believe that the West is creating a dangerous precedent by effectively enforcing a division of a country (Serbia) without its consent;"
Oh, right, it's simply concern over international law that motivates Russian animus. Do you actually expect anyone to swallow this?
"that the West disregards the consequences of such an enforcement - not just in Abkhazia or South Ossetia, the two secessionist territories of Georgia, but elsewhere in the world."
It's hilarious how you follow up an appeal to international law with a thinly-veiled threat to support insurrections across the Russian sphere of influence. You don't actually think that you're going to get away with this silly charade of rattling sabres at your neighbors and then trying to somehow blame it on America, do you? By all means, though, go ahead and try: Russia is the one who will suffer from the ensuing instability and loss of goodwill, and it will only push the former Soviet states even farther into the arms of NATO.
You also fail to mention the Serbia is the legal successor state to Yugoslavia, for what it is worth.
"And it’s not just their leaders. Don’t forget that Slobodan Milosevic was promoted (by the majority of Serbian voters) as president of Yugoslavia in 1997 even though his fascist policies had already killed more than 100,000 Bosnians and Croats by then."
--- The official numbers, according the Bosnian government (who for the most part is Muslim) asserts the final dead at about 90,000. This number includes casualties from all ethnic groups (Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, Croats, Roma, Etc...). Also, by 1997, over 250,000 Serbians were ethnically cleansed from the Krajina region in Croatia. Many were also killed in that operation (Storm), and the Croatian general Gotovina is now on trial in the Hague for those exact war crimes. Although, the American who supported and openly funded Storm have pretty much washed their hands of the entire situation.
Furthermore, according to UN figures the death toll in Kosovo prior to the NATO bombing is about 2,000. These numbers also include casualties from all ethnic groups. Also, the 1.5 million refugees who fled from the "Serbian savages" were actually fleeing the NATO bombing. International video crews vividly recorded Albanian refugees in Kosovo saying they were fleeing the NATO bombs.
From 1999 to today, there are 250,000 Serbian refugees from Kosovo living in central Serbia while 300,000 more ethnic Albanians occupy Kosovo.
Has anyone here ever actually read any transcripts from the Hague trial???
MS:
"...Kosovo was part of Serbia starting in 1912 prior to the formation of Yugoslavia".
Kosovo has never been legally part of Serbia. During the 1912 and 1913, while Ottoman Empire was collapsing, Serbia, together with the help of some regional allies, seized the moment and invaded the territory of Kosovo what was then called "Ottoman Vilayet". Now, this was not legal because no one had recognized Serbian sovereignty over the province. The new country of Turkey recognized only Belgrade's authority over Kosovo under the understanding that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia. So, Serbia never really had legal sovereignty over Kosovo. That is why when Kosovar Albanians became vocal and wanted their status defined in 1968, Josip Borz Tito responded with the 1974 act that gave Kosovo its autonomy within Yugoslavia. So, in other words, Kosovo was really kept by force illegally under Serbia just as it was snatched by force from the crumbling Ottoman Empire in 1912. Now you can argue all day long that Serbia had a "moral" right to take Kosovo back from the Ottomans, and the ensuing nonsense that "Kosovo is a Jerusalem of Serbia", but the historical facts of last century are laid out in open for everyone to see.
That's why Serbs usually respond to Kosovo's independence with a fury of opinions and emotions loaded with myths, because the facts are not on their side. This, in addition, to trying to eradicate more than 2 million Kosovar Albanians from the face of the earth during the late 1990s. But the most outrageous act is that Serbs show no remorse for crimes against humanity that were committed on their behalf by their leaders during the last decade not only in Kosovo, but Bosnia and Croatia as well.
Now, it is no surprise that Serbia has always tried to rewrite history when it came to its relationship with its neighbors. But it is really amazing how they still attempt to deny mass killings of Albanians just a few years back---although it was one of the most documented wars of the last century and more bodies of Albanians have just recently been dug up in Serbia.
And it’s not just their leaders. Don’t forget that Slobodan Milosevic was promoted (by the majority of Serbian voters) as president of Yugoslavia in 1997 even though his fascist policies had already killed more than 100,000 Bosnians and Croats by then.
But this time, they seem to be in a really deep hole but still denying their own predicament. Pathetic!
People of Kosovo have their own right to vote for independence as all nations and all groups of people wisht to seek indepence for themselves!
Serbia has created too much deaths and suffering for kosovo people already in the evil assistances of Russia!
Russia is the land of death and terrorizing their own citizens and numerous nations as have seen in the history!
1/ KOSOVO MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS!
2/ TIBET AN OCCUPIED NATION MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS!
3/ UIGHUR AN ISLAMIC OCCUPIED NATION IN THE BRUTAL EVIL CHINA MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS AS WELL!
3/ TAIWAN AND TAIWANESE HAVE BEEN THREATENED FOR DECADES MUST HAVE ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS AS A NEW NATION TO LIVE IN PEACE AND STAYING AWAY FROM THREATS CAUSED BY CHINA!
These nations must do claim fot this righteous way to thrive themselves instead of living as slaves in the brutal and murderous bigger nations such as Serbia, Russia, China!
This world is not fair, never failed to be dominated by evils such as Russia, China, Serbia, etc.., and always shown to all world citizens of lacking of proper justices and now is the time for all nations in the world to choose for their own future and fate!
Mirka states ... "Kosovo has always been a Yugoslav province, not Serbian."
This is not correct, Kosovo was part of Serbia starting in 1912 prior to the formation of Yugoslavia. The latter did not take place until after WWI. This did not change until 1945, when Tito became dictator and made an arbitrary decision to make Kosovo an autonomous region within the Serbian Republic of Yugoslavia. Neverthess, Kosovo was still part of Serbia.
Mirka, given you can't get this simple historical fact correct, what reason is there to believe any of your other assertions are valid.
"In any event,the "setting precedent" issue will come back to haunt the West."
American Observer replies:
Lisa, you certainly sound like you enjoy seeing the West 'haunted.' I am sure you think that the situation is complicated and I am sure that you think that Bush is stupid. In fact, I agree on both points. Nonetheless, real people in the real world need to take real stands.
What is the right or wrong here -- according to your morality? Should we:
A) Allow the Serbs to assert their sovereignty by massacring the Kosovars -- as the Serbs have done in the past, and as they would if they could today?
B) Preserve the illusion of Serb sovereignty by sending peacekeepers to protect the Kosovars while denying 'formal' independence?
C) Recognize reality by recognizing that Kosovo and Serbia are now divorced, and start building the future?
You already know that I support option C; and any expert will tell you that there is no option D; so please feel free to answer the question clearly and honestly. Where do you stand?
US wants out of Kosovo for ONE reason. This reason was brought up in most senior level briefings I attended- get our Brigade out of Kosovo. These soldiers are needed elsewhere by an already stretched thin military. The merits of Iraq and Afghanistan are outside the scope of this discussion.
In any event,the "setting precedent" issue will come back to haunt the West. It is hardly surprising that now that this has happened that many countries are getting squeamish. Afterall, any country (and there are many) with a specific geographic area and a population dominated by a specific ethnic minority are now vulnerable to be “Kosovoed.” i.e., ethnic minorities demanding autonomy or even secession or joining up with a neighboring country. Kosovo has set the precedent for succession and that oppression by the majority group is enough to warrant this…. There were 2 Kosovo/self-determination related stories this past week, a Fatah leader floated the idea that the Palestinians in occupied territories should pull their own “Kosovo” (Abbas quickly quashed the idea!) and an even more interesting article in HaAretz that asserts that Israel has some real concerns about the possible precedent Kosovo is setting as leading Arab intellectuals at Haifa University see the potential for the area of N. Israel, the Galilee (Galil) which is dominated by an Arab majority could potentially pull their own “kosovo” and announce succession from Israel !
"Russia's own strategy vis-a-vis Abkhazia and South Ossetia has been to freeze those conflicts..."
American Observer replies:
Masha, your statements are nothing more than word games. The conflicts in the Transdneister Republic, Abikhazia, and South Ossetia continue because the Russians are keeping Russian soldiers in all three regions. If the Russians withdrew their invading army, the 'Transdneister Republic' would collapse like a house of cards overnight, and Moldova would be whole once more. You can read more about this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Army_involvement_in_Transnistria . If the Russians took their 'peacekeepers' out of South Ossetia, then the Republic of Georgia would quickly pacify the insurgents. You can read more about this at http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav020906.shtml .
The attitude of Russia is clear. Russia's attitude is that no province can leave either Russia or a republic which is subservient to Russia, so if the Kosovars want to leave Serbia or the Chechens want to leave the Russian Federation, it is okay and even necessary to massacre them. On the other hand, the Russians feel that it is always okay to use military force to help a province leave a republic which is hostile to the Russians, so the Russians feel they have a right to use Russian soldiers to help the Transdniester Republic defy Moldova, and the Russians feel they have a right to use Russian soldiers to help Abikhasia and South Ossetia leave the Republic of Georgia.
The Russians have a simple position. The Russians have no regard for international law or any other kind of law, and the Russians have no regard for morality. Instead, the Russians simply believe that the Russians are big and strong and everybody else should do what the Russians want. It does not matter whether Russia is ruled by the Czars or the Commissars or by Putin's mafia -- the Russians have always thought this way.
Helping Kosovo become independent is not just about helping the Kosovars get their freedom from the Serbs; it is also about showing that Europe and the West are not afraid of Russians. Should we 'poke the Russian wolf with a stick?' We should do a lot more than poke the wolf with a stick. We should kick the Russian wolf in the jaw.
DP:
"No, Law is Law, and it should apply to all. This was a resolution made by and agreed to by ALL members of the Council, including Russia and China".
That's exactly right. No one, in the right mind, is saying that the law should be applied selectively. But let me use your argument against you. 1244 is a resolution that recognizes Yugoslav sovereignity over Kosovo. Kosovo has always been a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Yugoslavia seized to exist in 2003. In addition, 1244 specifically states that after a period of transition, the people of Kosovo will have the right to hold a referendum on their own future, which is pretty much what Kosovars did after nine years of transition. Furthermore, the western world, including US, gave Serbia and Russia a chance to resolve their differences through Ahtissari Plan---a UN sponsored plan, which Russia agreed to. Then, after this plan saw no other way out of the dispute but to grant Kosovo independence, Russia backed down from a plan that it had helped to sponsor. Putin claimed that it needed more talks. OK., said the western world, let's honor Russia's request and waste another 6 months of money and plane tickets. The talks, with Russia on board, led to a dangerous dead end. The world had no other choice,then, but to follow what the UN sponsored Ahtissari Plan based on 1244 had said: grant Kosovo supervised independence.
So, you see here, there is no violation of 1244 by Kosovo or those who recognized it. It is precisely Russia that turned its back on UN sponsored plan, and sought to freeze the conflict indefinitely like Abkhazia and other breakaway regions and not let Kosovars move ahead.
Well, the West righfully had enough of Russian obstructionism and uncooperative attitude. For the first time, it looks, most EU countries are on the same page with the US and this is really good for the entire democratic world, which by the way, Russia excludes itself from.
Nick. "UN SC Resolution 1244 blah blah blah" That is the Law you're blah blah blah-ing about. Would you blah blah blah it if someone got off on a murder charge because the rules were bent for him??? No, Law is Law, and it should apply to all. This was a resolution made by and agreed to by ALL members of the Council, including Russia and China.
The fact that you're saying that "90% of the people are Albanians for centuries" [sic] demonstrates that you have no knowledge of the region.
Also, all the peoples in the Balkans, the Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, etc. all committed atrocities and acted as you claim "Nazi-like," not just the Serbs. Moreover, the civil war in Serbia over Kosovo produced a grand total of 10,000 casualties which includes Serbian and Albanians. Call that a genocide if you like, but then I ask you, and the world for that matter; how can you call 10,000 deaths a genocide and intervene, declaring that territory independent, but then do nothing in Rwanda, Sudan, the Congo, etc.? Hundreds of thousands have died and are continuing to die as we speak, yet the world does nothing. Where is that moral outrage now?
The question should be, "is Russia right to poke the rest of the world with a stick" (not that it hurts much obviously). Come on people, the Serbs acted like Nazi's towards all the people in the Balkans. The meak shall inherit the earth, and the Serbs need to come back to reality. They are not a priveledged people despite what they tell themselves.
"UN SC resolution 1244" blah, blah, blah... Yawn!. 90% of the people are Albanian for centuries. Serbia has to get over it, your free ride is over. Join the rest of the west and get a job.
The Kremlin's case is weak. Their backing of the Serbs has no logical justification except for what seems to be spite of the West. It would be irresponsible for the West to back down from a just resolution simply because Russia wants to flex.
How come so called International community does not wring their hands that UN SC resolution 1244 which clearly guarantees the territorial integrity of Serbia was so flagrantly violated? The said community could not shut up about Iraq for 5 years even tho there was a history of 12 years of anti-Saddam resolutions with 1441 on top promising "serious consequences".
Where is the outcry and demands for Kosovo independence to be approved by UN?
I think that Russia's opposition to Kosovo's independence has almost nothing to do with other breakaway regions. It is, first and foremost, a way to demonstrate its relevance in the today's international decision making process. But how much does it really help Russia to regain its respect in the world stage by having its ambassador to NATO tell the world that his country will use force in the case of Kosovo--- a statement so outrageous---that few serious western diplomats bothered to respond. The ambassador eventually withdrew this statement denying that he has ever said so---although major world media were present when he said it. How could western world take such moves seriously? In addition, there is a growing sense among europeans and the US that Putin's Russia doesn't even resemble remotely to the powerful Soviet Union. Today's Russia is mostly a country fueled by cash from rising oil prices and a resentment for lost glory. And this is precisely what makes Russians think that in order to regain that respect, it must somehow obstruct and oppose anything that US and EU stand for. The country is largely a negative power at this point with autocratic policies at home and increasingly uncooperative attitude in the world stage. The fall from this kind of attitude, though, is that if Russia keeps on building its diplomatic resume with empty and meaningless politics, it risks being even more irrelevant and toothless power.
PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions for PostGlobal to Lauren Keane, its editor and producer.
All Comments (118)
FINALMENTE A CRISE MOSTROU OS CULPADOS, MAS SEM CRIMES
Somente depois da recente reunião realizada na Basiléia, Suíça, sede dos BIS ou USB (Banco Central dos Bancos Centrais), com a presença de Governadores ou Presidentes dos Bancos Centrais dos países do Grupo do G-10, compreendendo Bélgica, Canadá, França, Itália , Japão, Holanda, Suécia, Suíça, Inglaterra e Estados Unidos, foi possível saber, de direito, porque de fato já sabíamos, que os responsáveis
Pela propalada e administrada “Crise Mundial...” são os Cartéis do Sistema Financeiro e os Bancos Centrais, por omissão.
Essa reunião da Basiléia deixou bem claro que os Bancos Centrais dos Países mais ricos do Mundo, venceram a queda de braço contra o Tesouro Nacional americano e mostraram, sem nenhum constrangimento, que são verdadeiros agentes do sistema financeiro mundial. Enquanto o Secretário americano defendia ajuda restrita às vítimas inocentes das subprimes, limitada aos USD 160 bilhões, o FED (banco central americano) cobrava a ampliação desses benefícios aos especuladores e aos Bancos, indistintamente e foi o grande vencedor da peleja, em prejuízo de bilhões de dólares a milhões de contribuintes. E o FED está fazendo redescontos de títulos com garantia de 85% do Valor de Face, quando é sabido que a cotação desses papéis não passa de 10%. E uma prova transparente de que as Raposas continuam Fiscalizando os Aviários.
O interessante é que o sistema financeiro , através dos Bancos Centrais, sem necessidade de compromisso com o povo ou de representatividade através de eleições populares diretas, conquistou poderes absolutos para manipular mercado , inflação, juros e ainda com a vantagem de sacar do Tesouro Nacional, sem limite, recursos para a cobertura de fabulosos prejuízos ( R$ 48 bilhões foram sacados recente pelo BC Brasil) FAZ BEM LEMBRAR o que disse THOMAS JEFFERSON, EX-PRESIDENTE AMERICANO: “Se o povo americano alguma vez permitir aos bancos controlarem a questão da nossa dívida, primeiro através da inflação, depois pela deflação, os bancos e as corporações que crescerão privarão o povo de toda a prosperidade até que os seus filhos acordem sem casa no continente que os seus pais conquistaram”. A profecia está se materializando e mais de dois milhões dos americanos (vítimas inocentes) estão abandonando as suas casas, porque foram enganados e manipulados pela ganância da especulação financeira.
A era Greenspan, de juros negativos e de excesso de liquidez, com os ganhos abusivos nos países em desenvolvimento (continua até hoje), alastrou a especulação habitacional e de outros ativos de risco, mostrando uma prosperidade irreal e deixou os Bancos totalmente livres para a manipulação do mercado financeiro Mundial . E os Bancos Centrais não estão sendo capazes ou não querem mostrar a dimensão dessa crise e até parece que desejam que a instabilidade e as incertezas continuem. De acordo com o IIF ( Instituto de Finanças Internacionais), os Emergentes devem receber um fluxo de capitais de mais de US$ 730 bilhões este ano, sendo somente que US$ 260 bilhões em investimentos Diretos e o restante para giro na especulação financeira volátil, que não gera mais produção , emprego ou renda. E esse capital nocivo continua vasculhando o planeta, em busca de atrativos ganhos em países como os do Brasil, que infelizmente sempre privilegiou esse capital em detrimento das prioridades maiores da Nação.
A fraqueza do Tesouro americano. demonstrada frente ao seu Banco Central , como vem anunciando alguns jornais, já despertou em muitos países a necessidade de devolver ao Congresso Nacional o controle do dinheiro e a sua volta às mãos do povo, mas com competência, seriedade e total TRANSPARENCIA. As lições valiosas do passado, a partir de 1929 de nada serviram ou estão servindo, exatamente porque os países democráticos continuam socializando prejuízos de bilhões de dólares (do povo) em favor de uma ínfima minoria de especuladores e banqueiros internacionais. Esperamos que o governo brasileiro tenha maturidade suficiente e não seja embevecido com o noticiário bajulador da imprensa internacional, mostrando o País como o berço da prosperidade para esse capital nocivo. Basta lembrar, com uma certa tristeza que o crescimento real estupendo das receitas do Tesouro não foi suficiente para conter uma dívida de US$ 157 bilhões em janeiro de 1991 que passou para R$ 1,333,8 trilhão em 2007 e deve chegar a R$ 1.540 trilhão em 2008, de acordo com projeções do Banco Central.Tudo isso, depois do pagamento, no mesmo período, de alguns bilhões de dólares em juros e encargos financeiros. Somente de 2007 para 2008 haverá um crescimento nominal da dívida em mais de R$ 200 bilhões, independentemente dos juros que serão pagos com o aproveitamento do superávit primário. E de 1991 para cá esses bilhões de reaias que estão gerando novos endividamentos estão sendo direcionados única e exclusivamente para alimentar a ciranda financeira ou o capital de “motel” e a concratação de riquezas. Esperávamos, sinceramente, que os Bancos Centrais e o FMI , na reunião da Basiléia apresentassem soluções concretas para o MONITORAMENTO DO SISTEMA FINANCEIRO, NA DEFESA DE BILHÕES DE PESSOAS.OS AMERICANOS E A UNIÃO EUROPEIA, EM NOME DA CRISE, ESTÃO GANHANDO ALGUNS BILHÕES DE DÓLARES ANUAIS, ROLANDO DÍVIDAS DE MAIS DE US$ 20 TRILHÕES A CUSTO ZERO OU MESMO NEGATIVO. NADA MAU PARA QUEM ESTÁ EM CRISE.
March 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 19, 2008 16:09
The US got involved in this Balkan feud as a re-
sult of The Stainmeister's antics in the Oval Of-
fice. Wag the dog, so to speak.
Various nineteenth century treaties threw differ-
ent ethnic groups into one pile, and now they want
to dissentangle themselves. This, of course, may
not always suit the dominent group; so you have
conflict.
As it happens, the US supported the Moslem group
here, for which we were nicely repaid with 9/ll.
As for the Russians, inveterate spoilers that they
are, how ironical that a bunch of KGB atheists are
shedding crocodile tears over their fellow Ortho-
dox Christians. Have they no shame?
March 1, 2008 5:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 1, 2008 17:20
"Spend time in bed with your wives" do not killed and bomb.Iran for example.
Iran and USA were good partners in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. They fought against Serbs on side of muslims(Bosnia) and Albaniens-muslims (Kosovo)
These were "clean wars", now says Hillari. Bil Klinton had a "clean hands". Serbia had not nuclear bombs, no "tomahawk", no "visible" no "invisible". Serbia was bombed 78 days and nights. It was very safe attacks Serbs. After that Klinton's "great result" Bush had not choice. He had to jump into "dirty war". So, war against Serbs was not a real test. It was illusion-american dream.
March 1, 2008 1:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 1, 2008 01:24
why people have nothing to do instead of sitting and posting nonsense thoughts and valueless info to use up internet computers memories!
Spend time in bed with your wives if you have many to please them as you should be a good husband for them!
All wives are waiting for you to please them! all the times! believe it or not you must please your wives first before please strangers here!
March 1, 2008 12:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 1, 2008 00:12
Abkhazia is a beatiful country. It must be Russian!
February 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 18:19
FF says:
"You don't seem to have anything relevant to add to the conversation, and are only interested in using it as a platform for regurgitating cheap invective about America being evil."
American Observer comments:
Your comments are intelligent and comprehensive. Thanks for sharing them.
February 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 16:44
"who the hell is “we”? Are you presuming to speak for all Americans?"
That was the editorial we.
"What you call “cynical view of American foreign policy”, I call it “fair and balanced”,"
Uh... making a list of exclusively negative aspects of American foreign policy doesn't strike me as particularly balanced. Anyway, call it whatever you want: your shrillness and inability to stay on-topic speak louder than any labels you could insist on.
"(I believe most of the world would agree with me)."
Ah, so you speak for the entire world now. Well, God told me that I'm right, so nah-nah-nah!
Can we please move past the juvenile assertions of authority? It's not fooling anyone. Your inputs will be judged on their merits.
"As an American I’m deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy with which the US deals with the rest of the world – especially since Bush and his warmongering cronies came to power. Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!! But I digress…"
Indeed you do. While you've made it abundantly clear that you believe America behaves hypocritically, you have been pathologically unable to demonstrate how this applies to Kosovo. What are America's motivations in the Balkans, if not the stated ones? What is the right thing to do regarding Kosovo, if not what we're doing? As I made clear in my first response to you, unless you can answer these question, your portrait of American hypocrisy is, at best, irrelevant.
"So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them as “taking cheap shots at America”. Talk about cynical!! "
Unbacked assertions do not carry much weight. Rather than persist in the fiction that I'm unable to respond to you (and abuse the word "cynical"), it would behoove you to consider my input seriously and phrase an appropriate response. Simply shouting "nuh-uh!" didn't work in elementary school, and it won't work now.
"Pointing out what the US did wrong does not make me look petty."
Well, to be specific, it's the pointing out of mistakes *unrelated* to Kosovo or the Balkans that makes you look petty. You don't seem to have anything relevant to add to the conversation, and are only interested in using it as a platform for regurgitating cheap invective about America being evil. This is petty. A detailed, insightful analysis of mistakes in Americans policy towards the Balkans, on the other hand, would be highly relevant and interesting. Unfortunately, you seem too distracted by questions relating to the Middle East and more interested in reinforcing an essentialist view of the United States.
"On the contrary, defending the indefensible by people like you and A.O is what sullies American reputation around the world."
Right, it's anonymous posts on the internet that determine America's reputation. If only people would stop challenging your childish rhetoric, the world would love us again. Anyway, exactly what have I defended? Objecting to your incoherent, divisive tactics does not amount to a defense of anything other than reasoned discourse.
Anyway, I said it last time, and I may as well repeat it: the way to get people to take you seriously is to respond with a clear, reasoned argument detailing what the right course of action in the Balkans would be, and why America is not pursuing such a course. You might even find that my previous post on NATO expansion would be very helpful in constructing such an argument.
What's becoming clear, however, is that you are emotionally committed to an essentialist view of America as evil. Hence the implicit assumption that demonstrating American failures in unrelated times and places is sufficient to prove that America's motivations in the Balkans (whatever they may be) are necessarily nefarious and, as a corollary, any stated good intentions are simply propaganda. After all, Iraq proves that America (or the government, anyway) is inherently evil, right? And so it follows that any policy America pursues is an instantiation of its evil inner nature. Thus, there's is no need for any understanding or analysis of the Balkans as such: the priority is to oppose America. And never mind that various forces will exploit your myopia for their own ends: after all, they aren't America, and so they aren't evil.
Well, if that's your agenda, I suggest you go find an audience that hasn't already heard it a thousand times. Like high school students, maybe...
February 29, 2008 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 14:56
American Observer says:
Unfortunately, I am not in Pristina, so I can't do that? Why don't you find a source for me, or admit that all of your numbers are fantasies?
Gandra replies
State Department declared that there are 250.000 murdered in Kosovo by Milosevic's forces. Pope believed in that and asked Klinton to bomb Serbia (it said Klinton when pope died, or it is fantasy?). American observer come to 10.000 victims(Albaniens) Total number (without NATO) of murdered (Serbs, Albaniens, Roms, muslims...=Kosovars) does not nearly reachd level 10.000.
There was a public session Security Council of U.N. Prime minister Kostunica publicly declared that in Pristina 1999. lived 40.000 Serbs, now there only "living" (it is more than ghetto) 10-20 Serbs. It is not fantasy, it is brutal ethnic cleaning, it is shame for U.N. and all West and all people which thinking by CNN brain.
February 29, 2008 8:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 08:55
Krajina says:
"So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them..."
American Observer replies:
I addressed them very nicely, 'Krajina,' but you failed to thank me for it, so I can easily understand why FF thought your 'points' were not worth his time.
February 29, 2008 4:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 04:36
'Krajina' says:
"Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!"
American Observer says:
If you are an American, then you understand the term 'yadda-yadda-yadda.' 'Krajina,' would should we have done in Iraq? Yes, nobody likes the situation there now, but what would Iraq be like today if we had left Saddam in power, so he could rule for the rest of his life and then give power to Uday and Quasay and then Mustapha, thus ensuring the same kind of rule for another half-century after time itself caught up with Saddam? You feel like you have the moral authority to blame America for overthrowing Saddam, so tell me -- would you like to take the moral responsibility for having left him in power?
We have a similar question in the former Yugoslavia. What should we have done there? You seem to feel like you have enough moral authority to blame America for stopping the Serbs and allowing their victims to escape; but tell me, what would those nations be like today if we had lowered ourselves so low as to have 'kept our big noses out'? Would you like to be responsible for the dozens of Srebrenica massacres that the Serbs would have perpetrated on millions of people?
Oh, and by the way -- how is it that an 'American' chose the screen name 'Krajina?' Krajina is the region in Bosnia where the Serbs did some of their most evil crimes, and where the Serbs suffered some of their most humiliating defeats. Why would a politically-correct American choose that screen name? Do you have Serbian ancestors, or what?
February 29, 2008 4:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 04:33
FF,
Your posts are complete nonsense.
“Even if we accept your cynical view of American foreign policy” – who the hell is “we”? Are you presuming to speak for all Americans? If that’s the case I can tell you right now - you don’t speak for me! What you call “cynical view of American foreign policy”, I call it “fair and balanced”, (I believe most of the world would agree with me). As an American I’m deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy with which the US deals with the rest of the world – especially since Bush and his warmongering cronies came to power. Personally, I think Bush would be on trial at the Hague for war crimes had he been the president of any other country!! But I digress…
So you couldn’t address any of the points I made, but callously dismissed them as “taking cheap shots at America”. Talk about cynical!! Pointing out what the US did wrong does not make me look petty. On the contrary, defending the indefensible by people like you and A.O is what sullies American reputation around the world.
February 29, 2008 2:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 29, 2008 02:49
Krajina, your post is incoherent. Even if we accept your cynical view of American foreign policy, it doesn't add up to an argument that recognizing Kosovo wasn't the right thing to do, or that America shouldn't try to do the right thing now. Taking cheap shots at America (wherein you presume to speak for the Iraqi people, no less) doesn't do your cause any good. It just makes you look petty and vindictive. Also, as much moral authority as the United States may have lost over the years, we still possess vastly more than Serbia or Russia, neither of whom ever aspired to any in the first place. You need to at least propose some plausible alternative motivations for America if you want to be taken seriously.
February 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 19:21
Gandra says:
"Why believe or not believe that Pristina increase from 200.000-250.000 (1999. y.) to 600.000 today.
Ask US office in Pristina"
American Observer:
Unfortunately, I am not in Pristina, so I can't do that? Why don't you find a source for me, or admit that all of your numbers are fantasies?
Krajina says:
"The right thing to do would be helping the oppressed Palestinian people against its Israeli oppressors."
American Observer says:
Actually, I agree. The sad fact about the Middle East is that both sides have such bad intentions. The Israelis actually believe that they can drive the Palestinians to Finland, and the Arabs actually believe that they can 'erase the Israeli state' and drive the Israelis into the sea. America has always tried to negotiate between these two sides, and then both sides betray us. A good example is how close Clinton came to a comprehensive peace in 2000. The treaty was almost signed; and then the Israelis withdraw from Lebanon, and Arafat decided that the withdrawal proved that the Israelis were weak. This inspired Arafat to believe that more violence could get him more concessions, so Arafat stopped the negotiations and started a new intifada. I have always said that you if you want to understand the Arab point of view, you have to speak to an Israeli, and if you want to understand the Israeli point of view, you have to speak to an Arab.
Krajina says:
"I don't recall the US government ever appologized to the people of Iraq for invading their country, depite the fact the ostensible reason for invasion proved to be complete false."
American Observer says:
We never should and we never will apologize to the Iraqis for overthrowing Saddam or the Ba'ath, but I hope we all agree that the Iraqi people should thank America. Even today the Shia and the Kurds are glad that we overthrew Saddam; only the Sunni feel differently. As an America, I am proud that we kicked the asses of Saddam and his dogs just as I am proud that we kicked the asses of Milosovic and his dogs; and I hope we always keep our boots laced for that kind of kicking.
February 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 17:27
American observer says:
if the Serbs slaughtered around 10,000 Kosovars,
Gandra replies: It is not truth. Total number (without NATO) of murdered (Serbs, Albaniens, Roms, muslims...=Kosovars) does not nearly reachd level 10.000. It is manipulation, as many other (Irak and Sadam's weapons, say). First number was 250.000 slaugtered Albaniens. Did you not remember?
The bigest ethnic cleanings in Yugoslavia are 250.000-300.000 Serbs from Croatia, and 250.000 from Kosovo. Unbelievable? Yes, but it is truth.
Why believe or not believe that Pristina increase from 200.000-250.000 (1999. y.) to 600.000 today.
Ask US office in Pristina
February 28, 2008 4:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 16:12
A.O. is nothing but full of you-know-what. Since when does the US ever care about "the right thing to do"!! The right thing to do would be helping the oppressed Palestinian people against its Israeli oppressors. The right thing to do would be to get an UN resolution before launching an invasion against Iraq on false pretense. I don't recall the US government ever appologized to the people of Iraq for invading their country, depite the fact the ostensible reason for invasion proved to be complete false. That would have been the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be supporting the democractically elected governments in Iran (in the 50s) and a host of countries in Latin America ( in the 70s and 80s), instead of subverting them and then orchstrated their overthrow. And list goes on and on....
The US has surrendered its moral high ground (if it ever had) a long time ago. So don't go around and preaching to people that recognizing Kosvo is the "right thing to do"!!
February 28, 2008 4:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 16:10
maybe I do not fully understand this issue; but my first reaction has been, if the Serbs slaughtered around 10,000 Kosovars, and aggressively pursued a policy of ethnic cleansing in the region . . . . .that to me is about sufficient to support K's independence. I realize that is ignoring all of the more delicate ins and outs of the regional relationships. . . but doesn't the ethnic cleansing history count for something ?
February 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 13:51
Gandra says:
"Before 1999. in Prishtina (The capital of Kosovo) lived 40.000 Serbs (of 200.000 citizens). Now in Prishtina "living" only 10-20 Serbs (of 600.000 citizens)."
American Observer replies:
From 200,000 to 600,000? Are you seriously suggesting that the population of Pristina rose from 200,000 to 600,000? I am sorry, I find it hard to believe that the population of that city has tripled in less than ten years. Where do you get your figures?
February 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 13:09
Before 1999. in Prishtina (The capital of Kosovo) lived 40.000 Serbs (of 200.000 citizens). Now in Prishtina "living" only 10-20 Serbs (of 600.000 citizens). Only in Prishtina, Albaniens grab 10.000 private apartments of Serbs. There are 250.000 refugees from Kosovo(Serbs, Roms). So, it is not blah-blah, it is shame for democray and dead human rights. It is not question between Russia and USA it is question of modern civilization.
February 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 12:31
N Bhanu Kishore says:
"language or religion should not be taken in to consideration before a smaller state is to be created."
American Observer replies:
Why not?
N Bhanu Kishore says:
"there must be some criteria to do justification for independence seeking smaller countries."
American Observer replies:
What do you suggest?
February 28, 2008 10:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 10:29
supporting creation of smaller states is not good for the world's future. all the cases are not one and the same. the countries should respond according to the situation prevailing in the troubled regions.
language or religion should not be taken in to consideration before a smaller state is to be created. there must be some criteria to do justification for independence seeking smaller countries.
international intervention is however unavoidable to resolve this type of problems.
February 28, 2008 9:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 09:08
The Kosovo matter has diverse complexities to be sure. However, the U.S. public has little knowledge of any of them. Lipman is quite correct in her assessment of the "moderate",i.e.non-nationalist, Russians. The U.S. government continues its Clinton-Bush/Council on Foreign Relations policy for what was Yugoslavia, that being FRAGMENTATION, ECONOMIC PENETRATION & DOMINANCE, PRIVATIZATION ( for multi-national firms' gains). Further, the Israelists in Washington posture to show that they are not really anti-Muslim & that an overpopulated Albanian community with well over 70% unemployment can really be a viable state with Wall Street & The City as proper directors of the project. Finally, Kosovo can become yet another operations base for the U.S. imperial war machine to transport its forces & supplies to the Middle east & Israel.
February 28, 2008 9:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 28, 2008 09:02
Thank you, American Observer.
February 27, 2008 5:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 17:59
If you want some insight into Russia's attitude with this development, take a look at a map of NATO members. The recent expansions form a continuous wall of allies from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea, effectively cutting Russia off from the Balkans. Furthermore, Albania, Croatia and Macedonia are set to join NATO later this year, with Montenegro and possibly Bosnia not far behind. Bear in mind that Russia has historically considered the Balkans to be in 'their sphere of influence,' and you see that they are alarmed at being pushed out of the region, and so have been making a full-court press for influence there. The swing state in all of this is Serbia: the most influential single Balkan state, and a historical ally of Russia. Thus, Russia's staunch (some might say overweening) support for Serbia throughout the conflicts of the 90's, and their backing today. If Russia loses its relationship with Serbia, or if Serbia is marginalized, then Russian influence in the Balkans will be effectively finished. The alarm at Kosovo independence, then, stems not so much from concerns over Kosovo per se (much less the laughable peans to international legal precedent), but rather from unease at the dimunition of Serbia (both territorially and politically) and the creation of yet another Balkan state that is sure to join NATO.
Frankly, things don't look so great for Russia on this front. Kosovo or not Kosovo, it's unlikely that the United States, or NATO, would be able to peel Serbia away from Russia (especially with Russia prepared to do just about anything to keep Serbia friendly). But it is very much possible that the lure of EU membership could draw Serbia into the fold.
February 27, 2008 1:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 13:57
Darden Cavalcade asks:
"Does our recognition improve our public standing in Europe? or anywhere else (the Muslim world)?"
American Observer replies:
Darden, it was the right thing to do. After years of genocide and years of divorce, it was obvious that the Serbs and the Kosovars do not love each other or respect each other, and the only thing that could hold Kosovo inside the Serb Republic was simple violence. Helping Kosovo become independent means that the Serbs and the Kosovars can start building their own cultures and societies on something except war.
How does that help America? It helps America because we can now been seen standing where we have always stood -- doing what is right, and helping the weak protect themselves from the strong. The Serbs and the Russians may hate us, for a time; but make no mistake, the Russians have never thanked us for letting the Russians run roughshod over Chechnya; instead, the Russians have sneered at us and made trouble everywhere else; and the Serbs would never have thanked us for allowing them to hold Kosovo through more violence. Recognizing Kosovo has given us nothing except intangibles, but pretending that Kosovo is still part of Serbia would have given us even less. As it stands, America remains the mainstay of freedom and safety in Europe. That is where Europe expects us to be, and that is why Nato still exists and that is why we still lead Nato.
Darden Cavalcade says:
"Does our recognition address an important US geopolitical objective in the region? Is there realpolitik behind this boon granted to Kosovars?"
American Observer replies:
No. Serbia has very little to offer and Kosovo has less. If we were simply operating from our own self-interest, we would have helped the strongest Balkan power -- the Serbs -- dominate their neighbors. Nonetheless, as I said above, doing the right thing puts us in the position where Europe and the world expect us to be.
Darden Cavalcade says:
"....right now I don't see why we should care whether one group of goons or another is in charge of Kosovo."
American Observer replies:
I think you are oversimplifying. When the Serbian goons ruled Kosovo, the Serbs filled ten meat truck full of dead civilians and drove them into the Daunube; and the Serbs would have done a lot more if Nato had not stopped them. I will be the first to admit that the Kosovars are one of the most primitive races in Europe; but even primitives have rights, and I see no reason to believe that independence will inspire the Kosovars to massacre anyone. After all, the Kosovars have centuries of grudges of their own, but the Kosovars want to be part of Europe and they need to live within limits that Nato and the European Union establish.
February 27, 2008 1:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 13:53
Very interesting posts.
For those who believe the US was correct in recognizing Kosovar independence, can you explain to me what American national interest was served with our recognition? I reject as implausible the idea that poking Russia early and often is an American national interest.
Does our recognition improve our public standing in Europe? or anywhere else (the Muslim world)?
Does our recognition address an important US geopolitical objective in the region? Is there realpolitik behind this boon granted to Kosovars?
It would be helpful to understand how our position helps the United States, because right now I don't see why we should care whether one group of goons or another is in charge of Kosovo.
February 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 27, 2008 12:55
I can not help but see the parallel between Kosovo and Chechnya – in one case Russia was able to retake its rebel republic with its full military might, in the case of Kosovo, Nato intervened and now Kosovo has declared independence – illegally I might add. There are two operative lessons here.
1) If a country wants its sovereignty respected – by the west, it must be strong enough and its people must have the will to fight for it. While I am not an apologist for Milosevic – he shares some of the blame (along with people like Tudman) for what happened in the bloody break up of Yugoslavia, although he had been made a convenient scapegoat in the western media, he was ABSOBLUTELY right in fighting the terrorists from KLA, an organization that the US state department once branded as terrorist organization!! NATO’s argument of intervening on humanitarian grounds was baseless. No doubt, there were civilian casualties in the conflict, but there are civilian casualties in every conflict. So why is that Kosovo Albanians died at the hands of Serbia security force were considered victims of Serb “genocide”, while innocent Iraqis, by the thousands, met their death at the hands of their foreign occupiers are called collateral damage? Why is NATO not moved by the plight of Palestinian people – are Palestinians less human than Kosovo Albanians? Talk about hypocrisy!!
2) There are no international laws, but the laws of jungle that governs the international relations today. The west and US, in particular, can twist and turn any and all UN resolution to suit its needs. The talk of western respect for rule of law is nothing but a myth perpetuated by a sophisticated western propaganda machine – aka western media.
February 26, 2008 5:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 17:44
Finally, a great analysis of the situation. Bravo Masha.
February 26, 2008 4:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 16:05
Russia needs to enter the 21st century and stop with the 19th century diplomacy which sees the world as a threat to its borders. Now hear this Putin, no country out there wants to invade your country. They are interested in developing their own countries and economies by permitting their people the freedom to pursue their personal creative destiny. A free Kosovo, a democratic Kosovo might mean a successful, thriving country on Russia's border exposing this autocratic Russian government as the failure it is and will remain. Not a comparison Putin's gang wants Russia's people to see up close.
This Russia is similar to all of the previous Russias going back centuries, a managing armed gang leverages fear of the rest of the world to maintain a choke hold on its population for the benefit of the few at the top. Thus, the Russian people will fall farther and farther behind most of the world's modern states culturally, economically, etc.. Eventually, this oil gusher will end and when it does it will become clear that Russian has once again misunderstood and ignored its true national resource: its people.
The U. S. should recognize Kosovo because it is the right thing to do. It might not benefit the current Russian thugs running the country, but in the long run, it will be beneficial to the people who live in today's Russia as a future argument for true democracy and a free market economy. South Korea vs. North Korea? Not exactly, but the same idea. Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia? Closer, same idea.
February 26, 2008 3:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 15:42
DANILOD writes:
"CD has his/her heart in place, but does not exhibit enough knowledge of facts or Sherlockian mind to cut through all the crap, smoke, and falsehoods in order to come to the just and true conclusion."
Well Sherlock, the facts themselves are in dispute. This is a century old conflict in which at least two living generations are not willing to give any ground and compromise. So what is the just conclusion and who will make that determination? Clearly the Serbs and Kosovars have two different ideas as to what is just. All I'm submitting is that I believe this generation of Serbs and Kosovars are too angry and hurt to make amends right now. Furthermore I think it's unrealistic to think that a century old conflict will be resolved in such a short time frame. As we've seen so many times throughout history, it can take decades to resolve generational struggles like this. I think that both sides should embrace this time apart and look inward. If a just resolution is out there, it will take time and reflection on all sides to find it. Everyone will know when that time has arrived, but it clearly isn't now.
February 26, 2008 3:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 15:38
I'm Dutch and my point off view on this case?
The US can expect bodybags coming from Europe, be prepared for US soldier dying in insurgent attack's.
Plain and simple, the Kosovo quistion has not ended, it has just begun.
February 26, 2008 3:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 15:34
CD writes"
"For the first time, I think I believe the negotiators. All of whom seemed to indicate that they just couldn't find any common ground. With so much finger pointing happening between the Serbs and Kosovars, it was just impossible to untangle the mess. Sometimes it's just best to start over."
CD has his/her heart in place, but does not exhibit enough knowledge of facts or Sherlockian mind to cut through all the crap, smoke, and falsehoods in order to come to the just and true conclusion.
The Ahtissari plan was part and parcel of the whole plot of deception from the ottset to get Molisevic and punish the Serbs. According to it, IF there was no agreement between KLA and Serbia within a prescribed time, then independence would be declared. THEREFOR, why in heaven's name would the Abanians agree? The USA was THE guarantor, sealed by a kiss by the US Secretary of state for the whole world to see on TV at Rambouillet>
February 26, 2008 3:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 15:14
The recognition of Kosovo arises from one incontrovertible fact: there is nothing that Serbia can so or say that will interest or scare other nations in the least. It is a weak, inconsequential country. Don't overthink the analysis, pseudo-intelligentsia.
As for precedent, the entire 20th century is filled with tales of nations interfering with each other's internal affairs, recognizing and aiding secessionist movements. Kosovo hardly comes out of the blue.
Of course nobody is going to start recognizing every region that would want to break off from Russia or China. That would be absurd.
February 26, 2008 2:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:57
Kosovo is for the people of Kosovo. If Russia can give humanitarian aid to improve the lives of the people of Kosovo, send money not bullets. Let them live in peace.
February 26, 2008 2:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:51
How many can point to mistreatment somewhere in their family tree? History has not been kind to every generation. Can we afford to make right every injustice? Or should our efforts concentrate on getting it right going forward? Better world governance should trump unilateralist/exceptionalist with a coalition of vested interests. When will the world see true multilateral leadership from United States?
February 26, 2008 2:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:41
Would it be heresy to simply admit that none of us really knows what's going on in the minds of Putin, Bush, etc -- and that therefore we really don't have a clue as to why these fellows are making such a big deal over a patch of insignificant dirt? Aren't a lot of us simply speculating why the leaders do what they do, hypothesizing about how their minds work, and guessing about how each party thinks it will benefit by backing one side or the other? I for one am willing to simply say, 'I don't know what makes government leaders tick... and I probably never will'.... The other obvious question, 'Should I care?' I leave to others....
February 26, 2008 2:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:28
For the first time, I think I believe the negotiators. All of whom seemed to indicate that they just couldn't find any common ground. With so much finger pointing happening between the Serbs and Kosovars, it was just impossible to untangle the mess. Sometimes it's just best to start over.
Frankly, it's both of their faults. In situations like this it's hard to believe that one side is all wrong and one side is right. I'll concede that maybe that was the case. Maybe Kosovars are victims in this. But there didn't seem to be a "Rwandan" moment from anyone in Serbia forthcoming. The only way that Kosovo was going to remain under control of Serbia is if Serbia came forth with a major conciliatory gesture from it's leadership all the way down to the grass roots level. With the wounds still open, that just wasn't going to happen.
But good fences make good neighbors. With time apart, maybe the next generation or two will find a way to turn a good neighborly relationship into a reunification. People are people and sometimes two people need to take a step back, let emotions subside, reflect and take responsibility for his or her own actions, then reach out and try to make it work again later. In the case of nations, that time apart can be generations. But it is what it is.
I don't think there's any need to even argue about it. It's just not going to happen any other way.
February 26, 2008 2:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:07
Poster says:
"Poster replies:
If the U.S. responds to a Latino secessionist movement in California by terrorizing civilians in Los Angeles, San Diego, and California, dumping thousands of Latino bodies in mass graves, driving the Latino population from their homes, creating a refugee crisis; and the international community intervenes to prevent another massacre of the kind it witnessed just a few years earlier in the breakaway Republic of Texas; and after intervening, if the international community sets up a process to resolve final status of California, and the U.S. fails to negotiate in good faith, while California, under an international peacekeeping force, establishes democratic institutions, and its people vote in a referendum for independence, and finally---after nine years---if California declares its independence, then it would be OK for the international community to recognize California's independence, even if California has a problem with criminal gangs and the drug trade."
American Observer says:
What a wonderful tour-de-force, Poster. I was going to write something like it, but I am at work and too many things have gotten in the way. Good job!
February 26, 2008 2:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:04
Let's stop pretending that the US or even NATO is interested in defending anyone for reasons other than profit and greed. Why did we attack Iraq? Because they had weapons? That was the first lie. The second lie was saying we attacked because the Iraqi people were being oppressed. That was never why. If we care about oppressed people, there are lots of places in this world we should bomb. Or maybe the outdated organization called NATO went to 'defend' Kosovo so they could gain control over the Trepca Mine? Thats the real reason we went in there. Stop pretending America has any good intentions in this world other than to rape it of it's resources.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/trep-j28.shtml
February 26, 2008 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:01
Holbrooke on the floor of a Kosovo Albanian home, discussing with KLA leaders some time BEFOR the USA/NATO bombing.
To disregard the Dayton agreement and UN Resolution 1244 a document was submitted to Milosevic and the KLA. No self-respecting statesman would have signed such a document, nor indeed would KLA.
At this point, on the stairs of the entrance to Rambouillet palace, the US Secretary of State Albright hugged and kissed Hashim Tachi, leader of KLA, following which he signed the document, and thus provided a semi-legal right to bomb Kosovo and Serbia.
Prior to that, a huge refugee camp was constructed in Macedonia, and when the bombings started, the Yu army began its operations in Kosovo. KLA was provided with satellite phones to provide "intelligence" to USA/NATO. And, mass exodus of Kosovo inhabitants started, of Albanians and non-Albanians.
Even without encouragement by KLA, the exodus should be no surprise to any one who has any idea of the small area of Kosovo. And the intensity of USA/NATO bombing could frighten and horrify any sensitive and intelligent viewer of the TV broadcasts.
Independence was promised to people formerly regarded by America authorities as terrorists and common criminals before all this has started.
To speak of "negotiations" about the future of Kosovo was hypocrisy and deception. The endgame was ready years earlier.
The fall of the USSR allowed America and its "satellites" free to expand the USA super-empire.
I am very sad to see to what low level have fallen my World War II Allies together with the former enemies. During that war, I was dreaming of a better world even as at least 90% of my Battalion perished on the front in in Srem, fighting the Hitler's and his puppet Ustasha army. And I was stupid enough to dream again when the Soviet Empire collapsed with the Berlin wall.
February 26, 2008 2:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 14:00
Most of all Russia is afraid of the numerous nationalities within their own country. If these groups all wanted to become independent, there wouuld be a major reduction in size of the country now known as Russia. Consider the cis-caucasus for example.
February 26, 2008 1:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 13:48
This is an interesting article. Given Russia's nuclear arsensal, oil reserves, and geopolitical importance for nuclear proliferation, North Korea, Iran, and Europe, the U.S. must take internal Russian opinion into account in making its foreign policy decisions. Our decision to recognize Kosovo was right on the merits - Kosovo was de facto independent already and was a recent victim of ethnic cleansing. But this decision probably made little sense from a real-politic perspective. The U.S. got no tangible benefit from the recognition, and further antagonized a vital partner in many U.S. national security interests.
February 26, 2008 1:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 13:48
1. Islamic terrorism is BAD, except when it's the KLA in Kosovo.
2. The U.S. Constitution considers treaties, such as United Nations treaty, the supreme law of the land. The U.S. respects its treaty obligations, except when the U.S. attacks a sovereign nation without the authority of the U.N. Security Council, as was done with the bombing of Serbia.
3. War in Bosnia could have been prevented by an agreement reached among the three parties in 1991, except that the U.S. told the Bosniaks they could get a better deal, so Izetbegović withdrew his consent. The Dayton agreement was basically the same as the 1991 Carrington-Cutileiro peace plan, except the Dayton agreement was brokered by the U.S. and the 1991 agreement was not.
4. Any group supported by the terrorist government of Iran is BAD, except when Iranian policy agrees with U.S. policy, such as promoting a Muslim Bosnia.
5. The U.S. will prevent ethnic cleansing under a policy of humanitarian intervention, except when the victims are Serbs, as when Croatia expelled 300,000 from Krajina.
6. The U.S. main stream media will present both sides of any important foreign policy issue, except in the Balkans, where the Serbs are always BAD, and everybody else is always GOOD, even the Islamic terrorists.
February 26, 2008 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 13:47
I've always considered Russians a hearty group, certainly among the toughest, most resilient peoples in the world. Yet, reading this article makes them sound rather insecure. I remember quite clearly President Bush's attmepts to form a close relationship with President Putin during his first term. At times Bush was so effusive in his adoration for Putin that it was akward if not embarrassing for Americans. I think most Americans have become frustrated with its government's continued acceptance of Russia's own anti-democratic tendnancies, including political assassinations at home and abroad. The Russian government should be able to manage Russia however they see fit and without American interference, but to suggest we should not stand up to a monster like Slobadon Milosevic, or to now smother our democratic ideals so as not to appear to be bullying Russia is ridiculous.
February 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 13:45
ChuckB wrote:
"American Observer, so when the percentage of Latinos in California reaches 75 percent (some predictions say this could be by 2050, or earlier), a new independent nation should be created?"
Poster replies:
If the U.S. responds to a Latino secessionist movement in California by terrorizing civilians in Los Angeles, San Diego, and California, dumping thousands of Latino bodies in mass graves, driving the Latino population from their homes, creating a refugee crisis; and the international community intervenes to prevent another massacre of the kind it witnessed just a few years earlier in the breakaway Republic of Texas; and after intervening, if the international community sets up a process to resolve final status of California, and the U.S. fails to negotiate in good faith, while California, under an international peacekeeping force, establishes democratic institutions, and its people vote in a referendum for independence, and finally---after nine years---if California declares its independence, then it would be OK for the international community to recognize California's indenpendence, even if California has a problem with criminal gangs and the drug trade.
February 26, 2008 1:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 13:12
Interesting that according to this article the US fully endorses breaking up other countries by helping secessionist, especially in light of out own history when well know civil war over that tore our country apart to prevent such an action.
February 26, 2008 12:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:59
I'd like to think I'm an open-minded person who tries to look at things from neither a western or eastern, but human attitude. The situation in Kososvo is not unlike what we've seen before in eastern Europe. The breaking apart of a hastily thrown together conglomerate of peoples in what the world knew as Yugoslavia has been a hard thing for most of us to watch. Like with Charles Darwin's natural selection, we witnessed the stronger groups and alliances within oppress the weaker to the detriment of millions of people who neither chose or pushed their own ethnicity on others. For the better part of 3 decades, we've seen a gradual regression of a once-civilized part of Europe back to an existence that was probably less civilized than the area had been during the Renaissance! Out of all this, we are now FINALLY witnessing the re-birth of that civilization in the form of a resurgent minority that could care less what western or eastern politicians think regarding its effects on them. On one side, you have a powerful west that sees a newly-independent Kososvo as another playing card that changes the dynamic of it's monied interests in the region and on the other side is a weak, paranoid east that sees itself losing yet another playing card in an already west-heavy stacked deck. Maybe these political poker players might best be served by taking a step out of their iron boots and walking a mile in some Kosovan sandals....maybe then, and only then, might they see themselves in the mirror of human spirit that shines now in Kosovo as it did when their own nations were born!
February 26, 2008 12:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:54
If you want to know what it's like to have the shoe on the other foot, have Russia recognize Quebec's independence (after all, there are already signs at the main highway entrances to Quebec City that read, "Welcome to the Nation's Capital"). Then have Russia offer to support and nurture the new independent state of Quebec, encourage its pursuit of Russian values and culture, and perhaps offer to train the fledgling Quebec Armed Forces from a new Russian military base.
How do you think that'd go over in Washington? Russia sees Washington creeping closer, closer every day, agitating the restive among satellite populations and stirring up revolution, negotiating for new American military bases on their doorstep. After claiming to be a friend to Russia, and then continuing to follow the same old cold war prescription, it is hardly astonishing or ungrateful that Russia does not trust America - and there, they are comfortably with the majority. Unchallenged American domination of every aspect of world affairs was a stated goal of the Bush administration when it assumed power; it's not as if America's "enemies" were making it up.
Russia's done some horrible things during its own foreign policy and expansionist efforts, and they have a lot to answer for. However, let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
February 26, 2008 12:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:47
I agree. We should not have recognized Kosovo. How would we like it in say 100 years when California or Texas are a majority Mexican and China or Russia acknowledged the demands of these people to make and independent state. Not very far reaching. We should not have gotten involved in Kosovo from the beginning. No wonder Russia is taking an adverserial position with Iran and Syria.
February 26, 2008 12:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:39
"Observer" says:
"The ill- advised recognition of breakaway Kosovo is a pathetic appeasement by some western powers to the Muslim world, which perceives them as hostile to Muslims and Islam. The West figures that by "liberating" Kuwait and egging Kosovo on to secede from its motherland will wipe out all that hostility that have been building against them since the First Crusade War."
American Observer:
I have never heard anyone say any of that. I have never heard anyone say that the liberation of Kuwait was an attempt to 'appease' the Moslems. After all, most Moslem radicals supported Saddam and wanted Saddam to control Kuwait and the rest of the Persian Gulf as well. If anything, our liberation of Kuwait had the effect of provoking and enraging a lot of Moslem radicals. As for Kosovo, only the Russians and the Serbs have suggested that the West 'encouraged' the Kosovars to leave Serbia. Everyone else recognizes that helping Kosovo has cost a lot of time and money, and all independent experts agree that the West has practically begged the Kosovars to find a way to reconcile with the Serbs. Unfortunately, the Serbs have murdered too many Kosovars for the Kosovars to forget.
"Observer," we both know that Putin is a gangster and Putin tells a lot of lies. Where did you get your stories? Did you invent your stories yourself, or did you get them from one of Putin's propaganda rags?
February 26, 2008 12:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:38
The basic error here is the confounding of Serbian war crimes with its legitimate national interests.
Yes, we should be concerned about ethnic Albanians being abused by some Serbs. This is a tragic theme in the 1990s. Why there could not be a cohabitation of conflicting interests illustrates a failure of Western diplomatic imagination.
Why could not Russia been involved in the problem?
If for no other reason, than to expose to the world their true intentions, and maybe find an extract of legitimate ethic blending as was found under Tito?
The Kosovo partition is not unlike making the battle of the Alamo part of Mexico.
The opportunity of ethnic re-blending in mutual respect and peace may been eclipsed by the political actions of NATO and UN as well as the United States.
February 26, 2008 12:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:38
I accept that for the time being there is no possibility of agreement between the West and Russia on this issue; for our values are fundamentally at odds. The Russians, for whatever reason, have acquired an affinity for centralized order at the expense of everything else. I have no doubt that the average Russian reads Richard Holbrooke's quote quite differently from the average westerner. They cannot comprehend why an American diplomat would actually care about Kosovo's self determination. They assume that Holbrooke must be using Kosovo as a pretext to further humiliate a fallen enemy. Freedom, even their own, is far down the list of Russian priorites. This is why, after the fall of Soviet Communism, they were so quick to surrender their new found freedoms to the first Chekist to come along.
February 26, 2008 12:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:32
Does the putative genocide change the equation within Serbia? What was to have been done instead of the bombing, and now separation?
February 26, 2008 12:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:27
Russia was on the wrong, and ultimately losing, side during the Kosovo conflict. How would Russians justify the mass murder of Kosovars during that conflict? It is understandable for Kosovars to want to cut ties with a Government that waged war against them. What is Russia's justification for keeping the two together? It appears to me that the Russian Government and their Dictator for Life, Putin, are simply mad that Kosovo actually respect and appreciates what America did for them. Their anger is componded by their realization that only terrible, dictatorial backwater countries actual want Russias input and support. Russia has only its Government and citizenry to blame for their standing in the world. Americans maybe wide eyed idealist when they go into the world to "do right," but at least the effort is usually in earnest. Russia has only ever gone into the world to "do what is right for Russia."
February 26, 2008 12:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:15
It is difficult to understand why Western Nations, especially the United States, continue the anti-Russian dialogue. Russia, Putin, and its Duma are not error free, nor are others. Russia has much to offer in time as their strength improves. I welcome writers, political pundits, journalists that have some depth of reason.
Sheffer Clark
February 26, 2008 12:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:15
If someone wonders why Albanians refused to live under Serbia, take a look at the link how Serbia treats its citizens and then you can guess how much the care about non-Serbs.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21790870/
I am sure, there will be Serbs to deny this one too! It didn't happen right? It is anti-Serb propaganda??
February 26, 2008 12:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:09
If someone wonders why Albanians refused to live under Serbia, take a look at the link how Serbia treats its citizens and then you can guess how much the care about non-Serbs.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21790870/
I am sure, there will be Serbs to deny this one too! It didn't happen right? It is anti-Serb propaganda??
February 26, 2008 12:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 12:02
Serbis/Kosovo compared to USA/CSA - there is no difference, so expect yet another Civil War to "preserve the union".
February 26, 2008 11:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 11:42
Backing independence for Kosovo is indeed a bad precedent, for reasons that go far beyond Russia and its current concerns.
This is not part of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, in which ethnic areas that were not part of Serbia were pushed into a new nation (Yugoslavia) and held there by Tito.
Kosovo has been part of Serbia for centuries, and for most of that time had a large-majority Serbian and Christian population. When Albania and other countries occupied by the Muslim Turks converted to Islam, Serbia and its province, Kosovo, remained Christian. Their staunch opposition to the Turks culminated in a great battle in Kosovo that is still celebrated.
But in recent decades, the mix changed drastically as more and more Albanians moved into Kosovo and the birth rate for that ethnic group outstripped that of Serbian families, leading in a fairly short time to a predominantly Muslim and Albanian majority.
Only months before the U.S. and other NATO members decided to weigh in on the side of the Kosovo independence movement, the U.S. State Department had labeled the Kosovo Liberation Army as a terrorist organization. This was because the KLA had bombed police stations and assassinated Serbian police and politicians. (If this happened in the United States, would we hail the KLA assassins as freedom fighters?)
Of course, in the end NATO bombed both Serbian military units and the infrastructure of cities in Serbia, as well as a group of Chinese journalists.
What does all of this bode for the future? Consider that rapidly expanding ethnic minorities which do not agree with the culture of their host nations exist in France, the Netherlands, Great Britain and other countries including the U.S.
When some of these minorities become majorities in parts of their host nations and demand independence, will NATO and the U.S. start bombing to support the "liberation" movements?
Perhaps the movements will demand this, based on the precedent of Kosovo.
February 26, 2008 10:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:53
The ill- advised recognition of breakaway Kosovo is a pathetic appeasement by some western powers to the Muslim world, which perceives them as hostile to Muslims and Islam. The West figures that by "liberating" Kuwait and egging Kosovo on to secede from its motherland will wipe out all that hostility that have been building against them since the First Crusade War.
February 26, 2008 10:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:52
"It is almost a universal belief in Russia that the West consistently takes advantage of Russia’s weakness.."
Funny thing, I grew up during the Cold War with the exact same belief in reverse- that the Soviets, in those days, took advantage of U.S. weakness. There were many examples held up to us, from the days of the blockade that spawned the Berlin Airlift right through to Afghanistan, which spawned that which we know all too well today. But we survived even so. And so will Russia.
February 26, 2008 10:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:51
Kosovo, and its recent rise to independence.
During the Clinton Administration, when we bombed
Serbia, it was to halt the Genocide being committed by Serbia against Kosovo. We owe the world a review of the circumstances that led to the present situation, and we owe nothing to Russia, who, if anything, was a huge obstruction to our efforts. We succeeded in spite of Russia, who , as I recall, sent a column of tanks to try to intercept our good intentions.
February 26, 2008 10:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:40
Notwithstanding Ms. Lipman's disclaimer at the beginning of her post here, it seems perfectly evident that Russia's agenda in the Balkans is being set in Belgrade, not in Moscow.
The dissolution of the Yugoslav state proceeded as it did because the consensus on suppressing ethnic identity that existed under Tito was deliberately shattered by the Serbian leadership under Milosevic, beginning as it happens in Kosovo. The Serbians thereafter gave every reason for non-Serbian Kosovars to want to leave Serbia, and but for Western intervention would have gone much farther than they did. Throughout, Russia stood resolutely not behind its own interests, but behind those of the Serbs. It now feels humiliated because it was unable to serve as the Serbs muscle, not because it had ceded and continues to cede judgment as to what is in Russia's interest to a foreign government.
This is not the way a truly great power behaves. It raises questions as to how genuine or durable Russia's late revival really is. It Russia really "back," or are Russians merely indulging a petro-illusion?
February 26, 2008 10:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:18
We live in a shrinking more dangerous world. If not careful we could link up the middle east tinder box to the balkan one. Turkey attacks northern Iraq nervous of the intent of Kurds and ever wary of a future Kurdistan. If Serbia is divisible, is Kosovo? Who protects minorites when the status quo falters? Is the U.S. with Britain, France, Germany etc. (most of the EU) a coalition not unlike the Iraq one carrying odious connotations? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Was the groundwork done sufficiently before encouraging and recognizing Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence? There is a problem and seemingly irreconcilable differences but without a wider consensus and a better probability of success, should the trigger have been pulled now? It is not just Russia that views with rapt interest.
February 26, 2008 10:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:17
Changing the status of Kosovo from one of full autonomy to one of independence is a bad idea and not just because it infuriates the Serbs and Russians and encourages independence movements in Spain, Russia, Georgia and elsewhere. Kosovo is a non-viable state by almost any standard. It is tiny, landlocked, devoid of natural resources, poverty stricken with a relatively small educated class. It will be a state on the dole for the forseeable future. Better to maintain its current status as a de facto protectorate of the United States and the EU.
February 26, 2008 10:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:17
We live in a shrinking more dangerous world. If not careful we could link up the middle east tinder box to the balkan one. Turkey attacks northern Iraq nervous of the intent of Kurds and ever wary of a future Kurdistan. If Serbia is divisible, is Kosovo? Who protects minorites when the status quo falters? Is the U.S. with Britain, France, Germany etc. (most of the EU) a coalition not unlike the Iraq one carrying odious conotations? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Was the groundwork done sufficiently before encouraging and recognizing Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence? There is a problem and seemingly irreconcilable differences but without a wider consensus and a better probability of success, should the trigger have been pulled now? It is not just Russia that views with rapt interest.
February 26, 2008 10:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:14
Has Russia made one positive contribution to the whole Kosovo debate? Their behavior in the negotiations has consisted entirely of accusing the West of arrogance and bullying while it has brought nothing to the table. What is the Russian solution to the whole Serbian mess? To go on pretending that the Serbian government did not sponsor a genocidal campaign against Kosovars in the 1990s? Have the Russians (or Serbs) offered any vision of a Kosovo where non-Serbs can live in peace?
February 26, 2008 10:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:12
ChuckB Says:
"A nation that continually reasserts its unilateral doctrine (the Monroe Doctrine) of supremacy over two continents, its spheres of influence, has a lot of nerve criticizing Russia for attempting to dominate the affairs of nations on its borders."
American Observer replies:
Chuck B? I hate to mention it, but you are repeating Marxist koolaide. The Monroe Doctrine does not 'assert supremacy over two continents.' Nothing could be further from the truth. America proclaimed the Monroe Doctrine two hundred years ago, when America was still too weak to assert supremacy over Oregon, let alone Brazil. The only thing the Monroe Doctrine stated was that we would not try to overthrow European rule in colonies which the Europeans still had, but that we would protect the independence of countries which had already driven out the Europeans. That is why we sent the guns which the Mexicans used to drive out the French on 'El Cinco De Mayo,' and that is why we kept the Nazis from occupying the French and Dutch colonies in the Caribean when the Nazis occupied France and Holland, before America entered the Second World War. That is why we kept the Soviet Empire from seizing colonies in Bolivia and Greneda.
As an American I am proud of the fact that America has done so much to protect the independence of the nations of the New World, just as I am proud that we have done so much to bring down the Nazi and Soviet Empires. I am proud that we are smacking Putin's claws in Ukraine and Kosovo, and I hope we continue to stand behind nations like Kosovo and Ukraine. As for you, Chuck -- if you want to write about history, you should go read some of it first.
February 26, 2008 10:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 10:06
Serbia is not part of Russia. It was part of the former Soviet Union, but that dissolved if I remember my history correctly.
How is it any of Russia's business what Kosovo does?
February 26, 2008 9:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 09:48
Loser’s strategies
The Kosovo issue is not over yet. The media ball around this subject is rolling. I’ve watched carefully, these days, all the newspapers and TV shows that have discussed the Kosovo issue and, implicitly, the issue of territorial autonomy of the szeklers population in Covasna and Harghita counties. Judging objectively, I think there are some partial conclusions that can drawn, conclusions based on the fact that I was borne in Sfantu Gheorghe, Covasna County, and I have lived there for 25 years.
Whether Romania likes it or not, the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR) has, at the present moment, the possibility to do what the Albanians from Kosovo did. At a governmental level, UDMR has representatives in all the administrative institutions. There is not a single ministry or public agency which doesn’t have a Hungarian clerk, a secretary of state or a simple secretary, both ethnic Hungarians. At the local level, in Covasna and Harghita counties, the ethnic Hungarians living in Romania have rights that ethnic Romanians living in France and Greece, countries that do not recognize ethnic minorities, don’t even dream about: newspapers and radios in Hungarian, Hungarian coat of arms, Hungarian flag, Hungarian national anthem, teaching system starting from the first grade up to college exclusively in Hungarian, economical associations built exclusively on the principle of the membership to the Hungarian minority. If we add to that the territory and the population we have the premises of an independence of Szeklers Land in the hearth of Romania.
Secondly, by not recognizing Kosovo, Romania is pointing out, at least in my opinion, that it has a problem on its territory, the szeklers problem. Don’t get me wrong, I am not implying that the szeklers as people are a problem. What I am trying to say is that due to their leader’s political speech, the Hungarian community in Romania presents itself in a bad light. And what do countries that don’t recognize Kosovo have in common? They are all states with ethnic issues and territorial claims, just like Romania.
Furthermore I do not understand why Romania is so friendly towards Serbia. What do we get by supporting them? Ethnic Romanians, from Serb Timoc are terrorized and assimilated, submitted to a ferocious process of ethnic assimilation. There are no newspapers in Romanian nor is there a Romanian minister in the Belgrade Government. The ethnic Romanian community in Serbia barely managed to build up a church although the religious service in Romanian is forbidden in Serbia.
Further more, one of the biggest stupidities is the speech of Romanian politicians and political annalists is the idea that without UDMR in the government the things will blow up right now. The cultural association called UDMR, which pretends to be a political party, is a kind of evolved political species without which the Romanian State will disappear. Just like the idiots that say that without bishop Laszlo Tokes there would have not been the Romanian Revolution in 1989, there are a lot of political annalists that stand by the idea that the exclusion of UDMR from the Romanian Government would be a catastrophe for Romania. UDMR is posing as a victim of the electoral system reform, estimating that the Hungarians in Romania will no longer be represented in a proportional way in the Romanian Parliament.
None the less, if you look at the speeches of Hungarian leaders at their reunions, held in Hungarian, you will se that they are full of venom and threats at the state integrity of Romania. Still, if you look at the same Hungarian leaders on public and private televisions these days you will see that they are very humble and that they do nothing else but deny the attacks on Romania’s integrity. The Hungarian cultural association’s discourse is now the one of “we can do more but we will settle for less”, Romania being blackmailed in the way of: “Romanian’s, if we want we can get the independence because USA and EU is supporting that, so give us the territorial autonomy if you want to be at peace”.
The Hungarian community in Romania, along with their leaders, forgets an important aspect: the independence of Kosovo was built on the corpse of thousands of Albanians and Serbs. I say that it is much more intelligent of us to be happy that on the streets of Covasna and Harghita counties we can hear the sound of children playing instead of bombs and tanks. May God clear up our minds!
Dan Tanasa, Bucharest, Romania
http://fearlesstaxpayer.blogspot.com/
dantanasa@yahoo.com
February 26, 2008 9:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 09:39
American Observer, so when the percentage of Latinos in California reaches 75 percent (some predictions say this could be by 2050, or earlier), a new independent nation should be created?
February 26, 2008 9:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 09:27
A nation that continually reasserts its unilateral doctrine (the Monroe Doctrine) of supremacy over two continents, its spheres of influence, has a lot of nerve criticizing Russia for attempting to dominate the affairs of nations on its borders. Our government and many of its citizens become righteously indignant whenever it is suggested that we are an Empire which seeks global domination. I am not sure, then, what one would call a nation that insists on exclusive domination of its neighbors' affairs while continually meddling in the affairs of nations far from its borders. At the least we appear to be very self-righteous and egoistic.
February 26, 2008 9:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 09:20
Good afternoon! (I ask a pardon for my bad English!)
I lived 10 years in Israel (at me the Israeli citizenship) and as thousand left for Israel in 1991 - in 1998 I have returned to Russia, to Moscow! Last ten years I live in Moscow. In Russia it is a lot of still problems (social and economic character), but these problems have no attitude to about what write every day the American newspapers! I having visited many countries, would tell so: Russia - NEW, Russia-HAS changed, and the USA - have remained in 80th years!" Cold war " and propagation against Russia NEVER came to an end and it is the fact, many clever people in Israel and all over the world understand it! As soon as Russia became weak in 90 - America and the West as a whole at once have started to use this weakness in the purposes: to expand NATO, to finance the footmen Yuschenko, Saakashvili, to create military bases in the Europe and in Asia, to conduct the antiRussian propagation in all directions!America always considered strong Russia and considers as threat of the hegemony, to the sovereignty! I, as well as many my Israeli friends we consider, that America has made a historical mistake when in 90 has started to support drunkard Yeltsin and to help it to plunder Russia when has started to cover thieves and gangsters who plundered Russian people, to use weakness of Russia, to finance tyrants in Georgia and Ukraine, naming their democrats! America in the future will very dearly pay for this mistake, since for 95 % of Russians today, America is an enemy! Putin is the most westernized politician from possible for today in Russia, but to vegetables of cold war, such as Bush and чейни it to not understand, they live still a policy 80! In Russia all people considers, that on expansion of NATO it is necessary to return bases to Cuba, necessary to build new nuclear rockets, the ships, to distribute the Russian-Chinese influence by the same ways as it is done by America! Why it "is possible" for America, and Russia, or still someone "IS impossible" for China, Iran, Canada??? Really you think, what writing down every year all the new and new countries in " an axis of a harm " America remains the influential country? America harms to Russia in economy where can, for example, agitates to build oil pipelines and gas mains around of Russia... And as you look at if China or Russia will finance and will change a mode in Mexico (which has come to power very doubtful by!) also will start with Mexico to sell oil " around of America "? The world has changed! If America wants, that with it respected - IT SHOULD RESPECT with OTHERS, Including Russia! STOP FOR THE BEGINNING TO CONDUCT the IMPUDENT, FALSE PROPAGATION AGAINST Putin And Russia!
February 26, 2008 7:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 07:12
well by accusing me of demonizing Kosovar which I am clearly not doing if anyone bothers to read what I have written you are hoping for an a chorus of voices to come to slam me...you are very obvious. In any event this is my last exchange with you...look at what you write !...there is something more than weird, even off balanced about your personal attacks...
"Lisa is just repeating Serb accusations because those accusations make 'the straight white males' of America look bad. We call this pathology 'Spoiled White Girl From The Suburbs Syndrome."
February 26, 2008 2:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 02:31
Lisa says:
"in any event as I said it will be interesting to see what Condi means by " international supervision" ...sounds like nice words for ocupation or maybe a system like the British Mandate in palestine....who knows what will be cooked up..."
American Observer replies:
Why should anything be 'cooked up?' I mean, 'occupation' and 'independence' are clearly opposites, and the 'British Mandate' hardly included the kind of free elections that the Kosovars are holding. Why reach for these bogus comparisons? After all, America and Britain have both had soldiers in Germany for sixty years, but nobody imagines that there is anything 'cooked up' about Germany's democracy. Lisa, aren't you just demonizing the Kosovars and everyone who supports them again?
February 26, 2008 2:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 02:15
Separatists movements have a long history... and now perhaps an even bigger future...especially NOW with the unilateral proclamation of Kosovo's independence...its immediate recognition by the US and by GB, France,Germany...in any event as I said it will be interesting to see what Condi means by " international supervision" ...sounds like nice words for ocupation or maybe a system like the British Mandate in palestine....who knows what will be cooked up...
February 26, 2008 2:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 02:02
Lisa says:
"and this is only the beginning of what will eventually be a big headache felt around the world..."
American Observer replies:
The begining, Lisa? The ABSOLUTE beginning? Wow, I would have thought this trend began when Bangaledesh left Pakistan, or when Eritrea left Ethiopia. I would have thought this trend began when Ukraine left Russia, or when Slovenia left Yugoslavia, or when Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke up. Indeed, I might have thought that it began when the Irish left the United Kingdom. However, if Lisa tells us that rebel provinces first started getting independence when Kosovo left Serbia, Lisa must be right, so I guess the Kosovars will have quite a burden of responsibility. Oh, my...
February 26, 2008 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 00:33
It's very nice statement by the State Dept.
It will be interesting to see "period international supervision " defined .
However, this of course is Bull Sh-t...many peoples can make the same claim....
"The unusual combination of factors found in the Kosovo situation -- including the context of Yugoslavia's breakup, the history of ethnic cleansing and crimes against civilians in Kosovo, and the extended period of UN administration -- are not found elsewhere "
And this is WHY Kosovo for better or worse is setting precedent...
and this is only the beginning of what will eventually be a big headache felt around the world...
February 26, 2008 12:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 00:27
Lisa says:
"I am not taking Serbia's side...but this divorce should have been negotiated..."
American Observer replies:
Lisa, Serbia started war against Kosovo almost a generation ago, and we have had a ceasefire for nine years. Serbia has had nine years to 'negotiate' this divorce, and the Kosovars and Nato both waited patiently for the Serbs to 'negotiate.' Now, look out the window and tell us what you see. Do you see any Serbs doing any negotiating? If you see them, nobody else does.
Lisa, The Serbs are still brooding over a military defeat seven hundred years ago, and the Serbs would have waited another seven hundred years to negotiate. That is why the Kosovars decided to quit waiting and get on with their lives. If you have been stuck in the middle of a homicidal divorce for nine years, you would have done the same.
February 26, 2008 12:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 00:25
Lisa:
You did take Serbia's side in your earlier posts, and you did that by using a typical Serbian line of shameful propaganda.
At any rate, since you seem to rely so much in State Deapartment's reasoning concerning Kosovo, here you have the perfect explanation as to why US supports Kosovo's independence:
"U.S. Recognizes Kosovo as Independent State
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Washington, DC
February 18, 2008
The United States has today formally recognized Kosovo as a sovereign and independent state. We congratulate the people of Kosovo on this historic occasion.
President Bush has responded affirmatively to a request from Kosovo to establish diplomatic relations between our two countries. The establishment of these relations will reaffirm the special ties of friendship that have linked together the people of the United States and Kosovo.
Nine years ago, the international community, led by NATO, acted to end brutal attacks on the Kosovar Albanian population. This timely international intervention ended the violence, leading to a United Nations Security Council decision to suspend Belgrade’s governance and place Kosovo under interim UN administration. Since that time Kosovo has built its own democratic institutions separate from Belgrade’s control. Last year, UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari developed a plan to build a democratic and multi-ethnic Kosovo and recommended Kosovo be independent, subject to a period of international supervision. In light of the conflicts of the 1990s, independence is the only viable option to promote stability in the region. The United States supports the Ahtisaari Plan and will work with its international partners to help implement it.
We welcome the commitments Kosovo made in its declaration of independence to implement the Ahtisaari Plan, to embrace multi-ethnicity as a fundamental principle of good governance, and to welcome a period of international supervision.
The unusual combination of factors found in the Kosovo situation -- including the context of Yugoslavia's breakup, the history of ethnic cleansing and crimes against civilians in Kosovo, and the extended period of UN administration -- are not found elsewhere and therefore make Kosovo a special case. Kosovo cannot be seen as a precedent for any other situation in the world today.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/02/100973.htm
The United States takes this opportunity to reaffirm our friendship with Serbia, an ally during two world wars. We invite Serbia's leaders to work together with the United States and our partners to accomplish shared goals, such as the protection of the rights, security, culture and livelihood of the Serb community in Kosovo.
As Kosovo today begins its life as an independent state, the United States pledges to continue to be its close friend and partner".
February 26, 2008 12:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 26, 2008 00:03
Mikra, it may or may not be erroneous it was part of State Dept documenttaion during the 1990's...
I am not taking Serbia's side...but this divorce should have been negotiated...now the issues raised by Kosov's action need to be thought out, now that this has happened...this is not just about Kosovo ...who gets to redraw the map?, succeed? on what grounds, via what process? Basques of Spain, the Palestinians living in Galilee, and Occupied territories, minorities in Pakistan, the Kurds in Iraq & Turkey...the list goes on...I am sure they will all be interested in how the US,GB, France and Germany answer these questions
February 25, 2008 11:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 23:54
Lisa:
".... the KLA funded itself thru drug profits and according to at least one State Dept report (in the 1990's) loans from "fugitive bin Laden"
Is that why KLA became NATO's and State Department's main partner in sweeping Serbian thugs in uniform out of Kosovo in 1999? Is that why Albright, the then Secretary of State, partnered with then commander of KLA, Hashim Thaci(now Prime Minister of the Republic of Kosovo) to go through Rambouillet peace talks?
Again, this is really a cheap shot.
If you want to argue in the Serbian way, you better switch to their way of arguing, which is detailed in my earlier posts.
But you won't get that far, anyway.
February 25, 2008 10:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:51
Here is a list of wise steps that Serbia could take following Kosovo’s independence:
1. Recognize it
2. Open an Embassy to start building diplomatic relations with its new neighboring COUNTRY
3. Promote Albanian language courses for the benefit of Serbian citizens for two main reasons:
a. Considering that the region is dominated by a large Albanian population and much of the trade is going to occur between Serbs and Albanians, it would help Serbs a lot to speak Albanian just like many Albanians already speak Serbian.
b. As Serbia is a landlocked country following Montenegro’s independence, many Serbs will start planning their vacations to the beautiful Albanian coast; thus, knowing the local language could prove as a great asset for having a great vacation. Otherwise, Serbs will have to resort to spending their vacations in Siberia, where, certainly, they will be “warmly” welcomed by their Slavic brothers.
On the other hand, the Republic of Kosovo along with the European Union would do everything they can to help Serbia move ahead towards its European path. The Prime Minister of Kosovo, has already expressed that he believes that Serbia belongs to Europe and should not hesitate to seek Kosovo’s support in getting there, despite our troubled past. The capital of the Republic, Prishtina, has also expressed its readiness to provide Belgrade with the much needed expertise in democratic governance and political reform. Kosovo has a long tradition of organizing free and democratic elections, so there too, the Kosovo expertise will be crucial in helping the Serbian people to identify leaders with radical and fascist platforms and implement ideas on how they can avoid electing them in the future.
Therefore, for all of those who have been skeptical about Kosovo—Serbia relationship, they are wrong. The Republic of Kosovo will be there for Serbia as it recovers from these difficult times.
February 25, 2008 10:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:46
No one could argue that Serbia has not comitted atrocities and has never taken responsibility for its actions.
However, the KLA funded itself thru drug profits and according to at least one State Dept report (in the 1990's) loans from "fugitive bin Laden"
It is the UN, US State Dept, and Interpol and US Drug Enforcement Administration (not the Serbs, or certainly me) that charge with verifiable documentation the serious problems in drug trade via Kosovo criminal clans smuggling drugs and minors around the world along the "Balkan Route" This went on during the 1990's briefy interrupted during teh war and started up again immeditately and has continued throughout the "protectorate" years...
There is also an "international law" issue here that can like any law be argued pro or con ...no one is arguing that there should not be a divorce but that it should be negotiated divorce...it is unclear from an international law perspective if Kosovo's action was the correct one to take...
Like most of the geopolitical issues that have surfaced as dicey emotional heart tugging issues in the world this is not a black/ white, right/ wrong situation...
February 25, 2008 10:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:39
Steve says:
"From what I can understand, the Serbs dislike the Kosvars, and vice-versa. Therefore it may be in the best interest of both if they could live their lives separately..."
American Observer replies:
It sounds like we agree. The relationship between the Serbs and the Kosovars is now so bad that it is not going to get better in our lifetimes. Whether Serbs and Kosovars can ever be friends again is a question for the coming centuries to answer. In the meantime, it would be insane to try to keep the Serbia and Kosovo inside the borders of the same republic.
Steve says:
"Cannot these contrived boundaries be reconfigured to allow the northern section of Kosovo which is predominantly Serbian to be associated with Serbia?"
American Observer replies:
I agree. Moving a few boundaries would make things easier. I wish the Kosovars would suggest it. Perhaps the Serbs could offer some land in exchange.
February 25, 2008 10:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:23
American Observer:
Rightfully, you brought a lot of facts to this discussion, facts that are out there for anybody to see, Serb, American, Russian, or Albanian. But I tell you something, Serbs don't really like facts. I know this because I lived with them. They just don't feel comfortable with things that can be verified by others. They like myths, fairy tales, and things from distant pasts. That's why they stay there and dont's want to hear what you and I have to say to them. That's why they don't hear anyone from the present, because thy like living in ancient times. In addition, they like to celebrate defeats like that Great Lost Battle of 1389. I wonder how they will celebrate Last Week's Defeat!
Any ideas?
February 25, 2008 10:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:10
I am trying to think of who am I reminded when I hear Serbian interpretation of historical events. Oh yes, that's right: Ahmadinejad! For him Holocaust didn't happen! Millions of Jews gassed themselves to death because they felt like it, just like Serbs seem to suggest that thousands of Albanians rushed into mass graves to make a point -- remember, their bodies are still being dug-up in mass graves in Serbia- I don't know what kind of other evidence would be convincing enough for Serbs!
Serb comments, not only in this blog but elsewhere on the web, are so revealing of what a profound and destructive impact the Serbian radical propaganda has had on its people. I guess it would take years and years of massive psychological counseling to deal with something of this scale.
The hatred that Serbia preaches today is a natural reaction that comes from defeat! As someone who suffered the terrors of Serb regime during the 1990s, I thought that there was nothing worse in the world than being a victim of the Serbian savagery at that time! I was so wrong! Now I understand that the only thing worse than being a victim of that regime was to be the blind believer of it. One can be healed from the former, but the latter is what consumes you.
P.S. It is pathetic when Serbs comment using American and other non-Serb names... a desperate move to have others support their genocidal past.
February 25, 2008 10:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:04
Thank you all for interesting perspective on a complex and difficult issue. I am sure that most Americans do not have a clue. The issue of states seceding raises intersting issues; the US went through this in the 1860's and it was horrifyingly bloody.
From what I can understand, the Serbs dislike the Kosvars, and vice-versa. Therefore it may be in the best interest of both if they could live their lives separately while they try to resolve their differences.
It seems that much of the strife is aggravated by artificial regional boundaries created during the early, middle and late 20th century. If the Kosovo region, except for the north is predominantly ethnic Albanian, it would appear reasonable for it to be associated with it's neighbor Albania. Cannot these contrived boundaries be reconfigured to allow the northern section of Kosovo which is predominantly Serbian to be associated with Serbia? Would not the elimination of enclaves contrived with the stroke of the pen help to ease tension? Why are none willing to do this?
February 25, 2008 10:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 22:00
Mikra says:
"Once again, this is the type of garbage that has actually remained of the self-perpetuating pathology of Serbian lies and propaganda."
American Observer says:
Good work, Mikra. Somebody had to tell the truth, and you came and told it. If you want to know, however, there is no chance that Lisa is a Serb, and there is no chance that Lisa feels any commitment to the Serbian cause. Instead, Lisa is just repeating Serb accusations because those accusations make 'the straight white males' of America look bad. We call this pathology 'Spoiled White Girl From The Suburbs Syndrome."
February 25, 2008 9:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 21:55
Lisa,
"...gangs who run the drugs and the sex slave trade of minors that drive the underground economy of Kosovo, that corrupt and/kill government officials that don't play along ...because if not...all of Europe will be impacted and infected by these criminal gang..."
Once again, this is the type of garbage that has actually remained of the self-perpetuating pathology of Serbian lies and propaganda.
You know, before the world discovered the true face of the Serbian fascism, Serbs tried to portray Albanians as creatures living on trees. When this racism didn't work in the modern world, the Serbs switched to another desperate mode of attempting to make Kosovo look like some Islamic place infested by islamofascists that would start exporting terrorism across Europe. Then they realized that can't actually make the international community swallow this garbage as Kosovars are the most pro-western, pro-American, non-religious people in the entire continent.
What are they up to now?
You see from the post above. Another pathetically desperate move to try and make the place a criminal heaven. And this is not just from anybody. Slobodan Samardzic, a Serbian minister in charge of the so-called Kosovo affairs, was quoted on BBC a few days ago as saying: "Our aim [Serbian] is to make Kosovo look as a criminal state". Of course they are going to try to do this, just like they tried everything against Kosovo Albanians, but in the end, Kosovars triumphed because the democratic world discovered the true face of Serbian fascism and eventually decided to put a stop to it.
What has remained of Serbia and Serbs today is nothing but empty slogans, resentment, desperation among people, and a moral and political breakdown of leadership.
Or as Mark Mardell of BBC put it today: "Serbian toothless syndrome".
What a tragedy for these people.
February 25, 2008 9:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 21:33
Not quite American Observer...you are stalking me...and that is "your personality"...and your pathology...
February 25, 2008 9:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 21:29
Lisa says:
"I always get stuck with some old cudger (or maybe the same ol' cudger) that insists on personalizing and lecturing me here -- "
American Observer says:
Its your personality, Lisa. Most people here take one side or the other and then back up their arguments with logic and evidence. You never do either. In this case, some people support Serbia and some people support Kosovo, but everyone except you recognizes that real choices have real consequences. You cannot see that. Instead, you just toss accusations around like a spoiled little girl without taking responsibility for endorsing a course of action. Thus, you invite lectures -- you seem to demand them.
February 25, 2008 9:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 21:08
AMViennna says:
"Kosovo became majority Albanian the past 25 or so years. After Tito put the Albanians in charge in 1969, they proceeded to cleanse the territory of non-Albanians."
Wikipedia says:
"In 1910, an Albanian uprising spread from Priština and lasted until the Ottoman Sultan's visit to Kosovo in June of 1911. The Aim of the League of Prizren was to unite the four Albanian Vilayets by merging the majority of Albanian inhabitants within the Ottoman Empire into one Albanian State. However, at that time Serbs have consisted about 25% of the whole Vilayet of Kosovo's overall population and were opposing the Albanian rule along with Turks and other Slavs in Kosovo, which disabled the Albanian movements to occupy Kosovo."
American Observer comments:
I went to Wikipedia and read the history of Kosovo. Like other sources, Wikipedia made it clear that the Turks did in fact take Kosovo from the Serbs, and the Turks did oppress the Serbs. Wikipedia also said that Kosovo has been in the process of becoming more Moslem for five hundred years, and that process was almost complete by the beginning of the twentieth century.
However....
Wikipedia says:
"In 1912, during the Balkan Wars, most of Kosovo was taken by the Kingdom of Serbia, while the region of Metohija (Albanian: Dukagjini Valley) was taken by the Kingdom of Montenegro. An exodus of the local Albanian population occurred. This was described by Leon Trotsky, who was a reporter for the Pravda newspaper at the time. The Serbian authorities planned a recolonization of Kosovo.[11] Numerous colonist Serb families moved into Kosovo, equalizing the demographic balance between Albanians and Serbs. Many Albanians fled into the mountains and numerous Albanian and Turkish houses were razed. The reconquest of Kosovo was described as retribution for the 1389 Battle of Kossovo. "
American Observer comments:
So, the pendulum tipped the other way very quickly. The Serbs reconquered Kosovo and began massacring the Kosovars, thus raising the percentage of Serbs in Kosovo.
However...
Wikipedia says:
"The greatest part of Kosovo became a part of Italian-controlled Fascist Albania, and smaller bits by the Tsardom of Bulgaria and Nazi German-occupied Kingdom of Serbia. During the fascist occupation of Kosovo by Albanians, until August 1941 alone, over 10,000 Serbs were killed and between 80,000 and 100,000 Serbs were expelled, while roughly the same number of Albanians from Albania were brought to settle in these Serbian lands."
American Observer replies:
I know we have all heard this before, of course -- it is part of the national mythology of Serbia. Nonetheless, Axis massacres of Serbs tipped the scales back toward a Moslem majority in Kosovo.
And then...
Wikipedia says:
"In the 1970s, an Albanian nationalist movement pursued full recognition as a Republic within the Yugoslav Federation, while extreme elements aimed for full-scale independence. The ethnic balance of Kosovo tilted as the number of Albanians tripled, rising from almost 75% to over 90%, but the number of Serbs barely increased, dropping from 15% to 8% of the total population. Even though Kosovo was the least developed area of the former Yugoslavia, the living and economic prospects and freedoms were far greater than under the totalitarian Hoxha regime in Albania."
American Observer says:
No matter how you choose to view it, Wikipedia and AMVienna are giving completely different stories. Wikipedia says that the Moslems formed more than seventy-five percent of the population of Kosovo in nineteen-seventy, while AMVienna says that the Moslems did not even form a majority until 'the last twenty-five years,' which sounds like after 1982. In fact, if you read Wikipedia closely, Wikipedia indicates that the Moslems have been a majority of the Kosovars since the Second World War.
Either Wikipedia is right or AMVienna is right, and I have far more faith in Wikipedia than I have in AMVienna. Sorry, AMVienna, you are peddling false numbers once again. Anyone who wants to check this out can go to the link at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo
February 25, 2008 8:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:59
American Observer "Lisa, I am going to remind you, in difficult times real people have to do more than complain and vent their own wounded egotism.."
geesh, I always get stuck with some old cudger (or maybe the same ol' cudger) that insists on personalizing and lecturing me here...interesting...it is a form of stalking...
February 25, 2008 8:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:54
Before WW2 Serbs made up just about 50% of the Kosovo population. Just before 1999 Serbs made up 15% of the population of Kosovo. Now there is a 5% Serb population in Kosovo. Whose doing the Ethnic Cleansing??
February 25, 2008 8:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:49
Retired Army Officer :"US wants out of Kosovo for ONE reason. This reason was brought up in most senior level briefings I attended- get our Brigade out of Kosovo. These soldiers are needed elsewhere by an already stretched thin military. The merits of Iraq and Afghanistan are outside the scope of this discussion."
It is really disturing if this was a "driver" or even ONE of the drivers for US actions... if true, it shows the enormous "reach" that all the poor decisions made to wage and execute the Iraq War has had on US foreign and security issues...again, this precedent set by Kosovo is a Slippery Slope...forget Russia's concerns for a moment...what are the US and West going to do when Taiwan pulls a Kosovo?
February 25, 2008 8:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:36
Lisa says:
"....let's hope you are in a position of authority in US government that so that you can make sure that Kosovo receives the great amount of foreign aid it will need. Also hopefully you can build and fund the multi-national force that will be needed to protect the Serb minority in Kosovo..."
American Observer replies:
That is exactly what America and the European Union are doing right now. Remember, Kosovo will need a military presence and economic aid under any circumstance. Even if Kosovo did not declare independence, Kosovo would still need aid and foreign soldiers. Remember, Kosovo was an economic disaster area before Nato intervened, and the Kosovars were being slaughtered before Nato intervened. Remember, we did not ask the Kosovars to declare independence -- the Kosovars have done that for their own reasons. If America lowered itself to your level and decided 'keep our big noses out,' then economic conditions in Kosovo would immediately get ten times worse, and the killings would immediately get a hundred times worse.
Lisa, I am going to remind you, in difficult times real people have to do more than complain and vent their own wounded egotism. Instead, real people have to make real decisions, because, as Winston Churchill said so well, "In times of crisis, words are deeds.' You talk a lot about hope. Well, I 'hope' you have the courage to go back to choices A, B, and C, and make a stand.
February 25, 2008 8:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:29
Nick Ulaj: Kosovo became majority Albanian the past 25 or so years. After Tito put the Albanians in charge in 1969, they proceeded to cleanse the territory of non-Albanians.
As a matter of fact, the NY Times created term ethnic cleansing to describe what the Albanians have been doing to the non-Albanians. I posted 'have been doing' because churches are still being burned, even under NATO's benevolent gaze.
February 25, 2008 8:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:09
American Observer"C) Recognize reality by recognizing that Kosovo and Serbia are now divorced, and start building the future?"
Well I am glad to hear that you are all for building Kosovo's future...let's hope you are in a position of authority in US government that so that you can make sure that Kosovo receives the great amount of foreign aid it will need. Also hopefully you can build and fund the multi-national force that will be needed to protect the Serb minority in Kosovo, and this force will aslo be needed to impede the power of the criminal clan gangs who run the drugs and the sex slave trade of minors that drive the underground economy of Kosovo, that corrupt and/kill government officials that don't play along ...because if not...all of Europe will be impacted and infected by these criminal gang...
You know I love America, but I am an American observer too...and the "nation buiding" that is needed here is NOT our strong suite... I wish Kosovo well, but we could be looking at another "Afghanistan" ...only in Europe....
February 25, 2008 8:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:05
"Affinity with Serbia and the Serbs does not play an important role. Slavic or Orthodox brotherhood may be an issue for those on the nationalist front, but otherwise it’s of little interest here."
Bollocks. The Pan-Slavic theme, and its attendant power projection into the Balkans, have been consistent elements of Russian foreign policy for hundreds of years. It is no secret that Russia has long identified the Balkans as part of "their" sphere of influence, and jealously resisted any attempts at undermining their authority there.
"For moderate Russians, Kosovo’s independence in itself may be OK —it is its recognition by Western countries that matters. Independent political commentators, as well those among the intellectual circles, believe that the West is creating a dangerous precedent by effectively enforcing a division of a country (Serbia) without its consent;"
Oh, right, it's simply concern over international law that motivates Russian animus. Do you actually expect anyone to swallow this?
"that the West disregards the consequences of such an enforcement - not just in Abkhazia or South Ossetia, the two secessionist territories of Georgia, but elsewhere in the world."
It's hilarious how you follow up an appeal to international law with a thinly-veiled threat to support insurrections across the Russian sphere of influence. You don't actually think that you're going to get away with this silly charade of rattling sabres at your neighbors and then trying to somehow blame it on America, do you? By all means, though, go ahead and try: Russia is the one who will suffer from the ensuing instability and loss of goodwill, and it will only push the former Soviet states even farther into the arms of NATO.
February 25, 2008 6:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 18:54
Mikra:
You also fail to mention the Serbia is the legal successor state to Yugoslavia, for what it is worth.
"And it’s not just their leaders. Don’t forget that Slobodan Milosevic was promoted (by the majority of Serbian voters) as president of Yugoslavia in 1997 even though his fascist policies had already killed more than 100,000 Bosnians and Croats by then."
--- The official numbers, according the Bosnian government (who for the most part is Muslim) asserts the final dead at about 90,000. This number includes casualties from all ethnic groups (Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, Croats, Roma, Etc...). Also, by 1997, over 250,000 Serbians were ethnically cleansed from the Krajina region in Croatia. Many were also killed in that operation (Storm), and the Croatian general Gotovina is now on trial in the Hague for those exact war crimes. Although, the American who supported and openly funded Storm have pretty much washed their hands of the entire situation.
Furthermore, according to UN figures the death toll in Kosovo prior to the NATO bombing is about 2,000. These numbers also include casualties from all ethnic groups. Also, the 1.5 million refugees who fled from the "Serbian savages" were actually fleeing the NATO bombing. International video crews vividly recorded Albanian refugees in Kosovo saying they were fleeing the NATO bombs.
From 1999 to today, there are 250,000 Serbian refugees from Kosovo living in central Serbia while 300,000 more ethnic Albanians occupy Kosovo.
Has anyone here ever actually read any transcripts from the Hague trial???
BTW, Kosovo is Serbia.
Get over it.
February 25, 2008 6:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 18:40
MS:
"...Kosovo was part of Serbia starting in 1912 prior to the formation of Yugoslavia".
Kosovo has never been legally part of Serbia. During the 1912 and 1913, while Ottoman Empire was collapsing, Serbia, together with the help of some regional allies, seized the moment and invaded the territory of Kosovo what was then called "Ottoman Vilayet". Now, this was not legal because no one had recognized Serbian sovereignty over the province. The new country of Turkey recognized only Belgrade's authority over Kosovo under the understanding that Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia. So, Serbia never really had legal sovereignty over Kosovo. That is why when Kosovar Albanians became vocal and wanted their status defined in 1968, Josip Borz Tito responded with the 1974 act that gave Kosovo its autonomy within Yugoslavia. So, in other words, Kosovo was really kept by force illegally under Serbia just as it was snatched by force from the crumbling Ottoman Empire in 1912. Now you can argue all day long that Serbia had a "moral" right to take Kosovo back from the Ottomans, and the ensuing nonsense that "Kosovo is a Jerusalem of Serbia", but the historical facts of last century are laid out in open for everyone to see.
That's why Serbs usually respond to Kosovo's independence with a fury of opinions and emotions loaded with myths, because the facts are not on their side. This, in addition, to trying to eradicate more than 2 million Kosovar Albanians from the face of the earth during the late 1990s. But the most outrageous act is that Serbs show no remorse for crimes against humanity that were committed on their behalf by their leaders during the last decade not only in Kosovo, but Bosnia and Croatia as well.
Now, it is no surprise that Serbia has always tried to rewrite history when it came to its relationship with its neighbors. But it is really amazing how they still attempt to deny mass killings of Albanians just a few years back---although it was one of the most documented wars of the last century and more bodies of Albanians have just recently been dug up in Serbia.
And it’s not just their leaders. Don’t forget that Slobodan Milosevic was promoted (by the majority of Serbian voters) as president of Yugoslavia in 1997 even though his fascist policies had already killed more than 100,000 Bosnians and Croats by then.
But this time, they seem to be in a really deep hole but still denying their own predicament. Pathetic!
February 25, 2008 5:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 17:57
People of Kosovo have their own right to vote for independence as all nations and all groups of people wisht to seek indepence for themselves!
Serbia has created too much deaths and suffering for kosovo people already in the evil assistances of Russia!
Russia is the land of death and terrorizing their own citizens and numerous nations as have seen in the history!
1/ KOSOVO MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS!
2/ TIBET AN OCCUPIED NATION MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS!
3/ UIGHUR AN ISLAMIC OCCUPIED NATION IN THE BRUTAL EVIL CHINA MUST HAS ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS AS WELL!
3/ TAIWAN AND TAIWANESE HAVE BEEN THREATENED FOR DECADES MUST HAVE ITS OWN RIGHTS TO SEEK AND DECLARE INDEPENCE FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS AS A NEW NATION TO LIVE IN PEACE AND STAYING AWAY FROM THREATS CAUSED BY CHINA!
These nations must do claim fot this righteous way to thrive themselves instead of living as slaves in the brutal and murderous bigger nations such as Serbia, Russia, China!
This world is not fair, never failed to be dominated by evils such as Russia, China, Serbia, etc.., and always shown to all world citizens of lacking of proper justices and now is the time for all nations in the world to choose for their own future and fate!
February 25, 2008 5:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 17:31
Mirka states ... "Kosovo has always been a Yugoslav province, not Serbian."
This is not correct, Kosovo was part of Serbia starting in 1912 prior to the formation of Yugoslavia. The latter did not take place until after WWI. This did not change until 1945, when Tito became dictator and made an arbitrary decision to make Kosovo an autonomous region within the Serbian Republic of Yugoslavia. Neverthess, Kosovo was still part of Serbia.
Mirka, given you can't get this simple historical fact correct, what reason is there to believe any of your other assertions are valid.
February 25, 2008 4:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 16:55
Lisa says:
"In any event,the "setting precedent" issue will come back to haunt the West."
American Observer replies:
Lisa, you certainly sound like you enjoy seeing the West 'haunted.' I am sure you think that the situation is complicated and I am sure that you think that Bush is stupid. In fact, I agree on both points. Nonetheless, real people in the real world need to take real stands.
What is the right or wrong here -- according to your morality? Should we:
A) Allow the Serbs to assert their sovereignty by massacring the Kosovars -- as the Serbs have done in the past, and as they would if they could today?
B) Preserve the illusion of Serb sovereignty by sending peacekeepers to protect the Kosovars while denying 'formal' independence?
C) Recognize reality by recognizing that Kosovo and Serbia are now divorced, and start building the future?
You already know that I support option C; and any expert will tell you that there is no option D; so please feel free to answer the question clearly and honestly. Where do you stand?
February 25, 2008 4:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 16:26
US wants out of Kosovo for ONE reason. This reason was brought up in most senior level briefings I attended- get our Brigade out of Kosovo. These soldiers are needed elsewhere by an already stretched thin military. The merits of Iraq and Afghanistan are outside the scope of this discussion.
February 25, 2008 4:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 16:21
In any event,the "setting precedent" issue will come back to haunt the West. It is hardly surprising that now that this has happened that many countries are getting squeamish. Afterall, any country (and there are many) with a specific geographic area and a population dominated by a specific ethnic minority are now vulnerable to be “Kosovoed.” i.e., ethnic minorities demanding autonomy or even secession or joining up with a neighboring country. Kosovo has set the precedent for succession and that oppression by the majority group is enough to warrant this…. There were 2 Kosovo/self-determination related stories this past week, a Fatah leader floated the idea that the Palestinians in occupied territories should pull their own “Kosovo” (Abbas quickly quashed the idea!) and an even more interesting article in HaAretz that asserts that Israel has some real concerns about the possible precedent Kosovo is setting as leading Arab intellectuals at Haifa University see the potential for the area of N. Israel, the Galilee (Galil) which is dominated by an Arab majority could potentially pull their own “kosovo” and announce succession from Israel !
February 25, 2008 4:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 16:01
AMERICAN OBSERVER I SECOND THAT MOTION ON MIRKA I THIS HER COMMENT IS INTELLEGENT, DETAILED AND CONVINCING AND I TOO THANK HER FOR HER COMMENT
February 25, 2008 3:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 15:24
Mikra,
Your post is intelligent, detailed, and convincing. Thanks for sharing it.
February 25, 2008 3:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 15:08
Masha Lippman says:
"Russia's own strategy vis-a-vis Abkhazia and South Ossetia has been to freeze those conflicts..."
American Observer replies:
Masha, your statements are nothing more than word games. The conflicts in the Transdneister Republic, Abikhazia, and South Ossetia continue because the Russians are keeping Russian soldiers in all three regions. If the Russians withdrew their invading army, the 'Transdneister Republic' would collapse like a house of cards overnight, and Moldova would be whole once more. You can read more about this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Army_involvement_in_Transnistria . If the Russians took their 'peacekeepers' out of South Ossetia, then the Republic of Georgia would quickly pacify the insurgents. You can read more about this at http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav020906.shtml .
The attitude of Russia is clear. Russia's attitude is that no province can leave either Russia or a republic which is subservient to Russia, so if the Kosovars want to leave Serbia or the Chechens want to leave the Russian Federation, it is okay and even necessary to massacre them. On the other hand, the Russians feel that it is always okay to use military force to help a province leave a republic which is hostile to the Russians, so the Russians feel they have a right to use Russian soldiers to help the Transdniester Republic defy Moldova, and the Russians feel they have a right to use Russian soldiers to help Abikhasia and South Ossetia leave the Republic of Georgia.
The Russians have a simple position. The Russians have no regard for international law or any other kind of law, and the Russians have no regard for morality. Instead, the Russians simply believe that the Russians are big and strong and everybody else should do what the Russians want. It does not matter whether Russia is ruled by the Czars or the Commissars or by Putin's mafia -- the Russians have always thought this way.
Helping Kosovo become independent is not just about helping the Kosovars get their freedom from the Serbs; it is also about showing that Europe and the West are not afraid of Russians. Should we 'poke the Russian wolf with a stick?' We should do a lot more than poke the wolf with a stick. We should kick the Russian wolf in the jaw.
February 25, 2008 3:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 15:04
DP:
"No, Law is Law, and it should apply to all. This was a resolution made by and agreed to by ALL members of the Council, including Russia and China".
That's exactly right. No one, in the right mind, is saying that the law should be applied selectively. But let me use your argument against you. 1244 is a resolution that recognizes Yugoslav sovereignity over Kosovo. Kosovo has always been a Yugoslav province, not Serbian. Yugoslavia seized to exist in 2003. In addition, 1244 specifically states that after a period of transition, the people of Kosovo will have the right to hold a referendum on their own future, which is pretty much what Kosovars did after nine years of transition. Furthermore, the western world, including US, gave Serbia and Russia a chance to resolve their differences through Ahtissari Plan---a UN sponsored plan, which Russia agreed to. Then, after this plan saw no other way out of the dispute but to grant Kosovo independence, Russia backed down from a plan that it had helped to sponsor. Putin claimed that it needed more talks. OK., said the western world, let's honor Russia's request and waste another 6 months of money and plane tickets. The talks, with Russia on board, led to a dangerous dead end. The world had no other choice,then, but to follow what the UN sponsored Ahtissari Plan based on 1244 had said: grant Kosovo supervised independence.
So, you see here, there is no violation of 1244 by Kosovo or those who recognized it. It is precisely Russia that turned its back on UN sponsored plan, and sought to freeze the conflict indefinitely like Abkhazia and other breakaway regions and not let Kosovars move ahead.
Well, the West righfully had enough of Russian obstructionism and uncooperative attitude. For the first time, it looks, most EU countries are on the same page with the US and this is really good for the entire democratic world, which by the way, Russia excludes itself from.
February 25, 2008 2:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 14:50
Some Thoughts on 'Abkhazia is not Kosovo' by David L. Phillips (Transitions Online, 7 Feb 2008)
by George Hewitt (Professor of Caucasian Languages, SOAS, London University)
http://www.circassianworld.com/News/Abkhazia_Kosovo.html
February 25, 2008 2:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 14:15
Nick. "UN SC Resolution 1244 blah blah blah" That is the Law you're blah blah blah-ing about. Would you blah blah blah it if someone got off on a murder charge because the rules were bent for him??? No, Law is Law, and it should apply to all. This was a resolution made by and agreed to by ALL members of the Council, including Russia and China.
The fact that you're saying that "90% of the people are Albanians for centuries" [sic] demonstrates that you have no knowledge of the region.
Also, all the peoples in the Balkans, the Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, etc. all committed atrocities and acted as you claim "Nazi-like," not just the Serbs. Moreover, the civil war in Serbia over Kosovo produced a grand total of 10,000 casualties which includes Serbian and Albanians. Call that a genocide if you like, but then I ask you, and the world for that matter; how can you call 10,000 deaths a genocide and intervene, declaring that territory independent, but then do nothing in Rwanda, Sudan, the Congo, etc.? Hundreds of thousands have died and are continuing to die as we speak, yet the world does nothing. Where is that moral outrage now?
February 25, 2008 2:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 14:10
The question should be, "is Russia right to poke the rest of the world with a stick" (not that it hurts much obviously). Come on people, the Serbs acted like Nazi's towards all the people in the Balkans. The meak shall inherit the earth, and the Serbs need to come back to reality. They are not a priveledged people despite what they tell themselves.
February 25, 2008 1:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 13:07
"UN SC resolution 1244" blah, blah, blah... Yawn!. 90% of the people are Albanian for centuries. Serbia has to get over it, your free ride is over. Join the rest of the west and get a job.
February 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 13:04
The Kremlin's case is weak. Their backing of the Serbs has no logical justification except for what seems to be spite of the West. It would be irresponsible for the West to back down from a just resolution simply because Russia wants to flex.
February 25, 2008 1:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 13:01
How come so called International community does not wring their hands that UN SC resolution 1244 which clearly guarantees the territorial integrity of Serbia was so flagrantly violated? The said community could not shut up about Iraq for 5 years even tho there was a history of 12 years of anti-Saddam resolutions with 1441 on top promising "serious consequences".
Where is the outcry and demands for Kosovo independence to be approved by UN?
February 25, 2008 12:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 12:57
This is one time
were I agree with the Russians
What were you guys thinking?
February 25, 2008 11:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 11:51
I think that Russia's opposition to Kosovo's independence has almost nothing to do with other breakaway regions. It is, first and foremost, a way to demonstrate its relevance in the today's international decision making process. But how much does it really help Russia to regain its respect in the world stage by having its ambassador to NATO tell the world that his country will use force in the case of Kosovo--- a statement so outrageous---that few serious western diplomats bothered to respond. The ambassador eventually withdrew this statement denying that he has ever said so---although major world media were present when he said it. How could western world take such moves seriously? In addition, there is a growing sense among europeans and the US that Putin's Russia doesn't even resemble remotely to the powerful Soviet Union. Today's Russia is mostly a country fueled by cash from rising oil prices and a resentment for lost glory. And this is precisely what makes Russians think that in order to regain that respect, it must somehow obstruct and oppose anything that US and EU stand for. The country is largely a negative power at this point with autocratic policies at home and increasingly uncooperative attitude in the world stage. The fall from this kind of attitude, though, is that if Russia keeps on building its diplomatic resume with empty and meaningless politics, it risks being even more irrelevant and toothless power.
February 25, 2008 11:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 11:47