. There's the "lettuce" argument -- we'll be paying $5/head (or starving) if we don't have illegal aliens working in the fields. As Phil Martin, ag economist at UC Davis shows, the field labor cost in a $1 head of lettuce is about 6 cents. Triple those wages and Americans will do the jobs. (They're not career positions. They're seasonal jobs for young people, starting in the world of work. I have did similarly menial jobs.) And you'll be paying 10% more for lettuce and other produce. Do you spend $1,000/year on produce? OK, you'll pay $100 more.

The lettuce argument also parallels that for the retention of slavery.

There's the "everyone's an immigrant except for the 'Native Americans'" argument. Well, the American Indians didn't sprout from the land, they came across the Bering land bridge from Asia. So if the criterion is "You're an immigrant if you had an ancestor who immigrated here," then American Indians are immigrants, too.

In that case, "immigrant" is no longer a useful word, since EVERYONE's an immigrant.

There's the "the U.S. stole the southwest" argument. Well, the land in dispute was "owned" by Spain for a couple of centuries. Then by Mexico for about 25 years. During these periods, there weren't more than a few thousand Spaniards or Mexicans in the entire territory. It's been owned by the U.S. for about 160 years now, much longer than Mexico's reign. And the U.S. has actually done something with the land, made it habitable for tens of millions. As Robert Kaplan has described, the difference between American and Mexican "twin cities" straddling the border is like night and day, yet the land is obviously the same. It's not the dirt that's important, it's the people. Put another way, if culture didn't matter, Mexico and Central America would be paradise.

There's the "illegal aliens pay tons of taxes" argument. Sure, they all pay real estate taxes (in rent) and sales taxes (most states). Those working on the books (typically using stolen Social Security numbers) pay FICA and, perhaps, income taxes. But they're mostly ill-educated and low-skilled and pay very low taxes connected to their working -- in fact, most claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, i.e. negative income tax! If a family with both parents working has two kids in school, that's at least $15k/year just for schooling, way more than the taxes on, say, $35k/year aggregate income.

Robert Rector at the Heritage Foundation has done the systematic accounting on all this. A typical household headed by a low-skilled illegal alien is a net drain of about $20k/year for the rest of us, year after year. (Low-skilled Americans are a similar burden, but they're part of the national family, not gate crashers from other societies.)

There's the "illegal immigration is bad, but legal immigration is terrific" argument. Nope. If that were the case, legalizing (i.e. amnestying) the illegal aliens would solve the problem. But they'd still be (on average) low-skilled workers whose burden on the rest of us would continue. In fact, once legal they'd be able to access more public benefits programs, so their cost to the rest of us would actually rise substantially.

In short, most of the problems of mass illegal immigration are shared by mass legal immigration.

Finally, I offer my distilled observations of what mass immigration is doing to our country based on living in southern California

The flood of immigrants drives wages and living conditions in our central cities toward those of the Third World.

- The influx imposes both sprawl and gridlock on our metropolitan areas.

- Immigrant families needing services overwhelm our schools, taxpayer-funded health care facilities, and other public agencies.

- Those requiring services don’t assimilate and, instead, expect to be served in their native languages.

- American civic culture frays as each ethnic group establishes its own grievance lobby and pushes for preferences.

- Communicable diseases such as tuberculosis (new, drug-resistant strains) return.

- Shortages of water and other resources loom, especially in immigration-blitzed Southwest.
Most that come across our open borders come from countries where, Crime, Corruption, Poverty, Misery, Anti-education, and hate for Americans has existed for centuries and is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same family values across the border with them?

To put it bluntly without being PC the problem with Mexico is Mexicans. In hundreds of years the only type of society you have been able to build is a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, Misery and Cruelly! Look at you sports, Bull fighting, Horse tripping, Dog Fighting, Cock fighting, boxing & of course rape is a great sport for the young men. Which you would think would hardly be necessary since sex is legal with 12 year old girls there. It would seem that would be enough like rape to satisfy even the most jaded! Not surprising as more of your Countrymen come to this country the more like Mexico we become! In the long run it is either good or desirable for us or the world to allow Mexico to turn this country into another Third World Country. If any more proof is required look at the Border cities, they are as different as night and day. Obviously the land is the same so how to explain the poverty on the Mexican side other than Mexican culture?

McCain, Heckabee, Hillary, Obama & the rest of the Democrats, plus Liberal Media and the rest of the open Border pro-illegal Aliens supporters professed & false compassion for Illegal Aliens is sicking. This Nation has 47 millions citizens without medical insurance, Million of our elderly chose between food and medicine every day. Millions of American children live in poverty with no chance at the American dream. Our vets. return from the war that came about by lies from Politicians without proper medical care or treatment. Yet they shower rewards on the Illegal Aliens, free medical, free schooling for their many children, no reward is too great or price to high for the American citizens to pay, for the ones that break our laws, invaded this country and demand their rights while waving the Mexican flag and Slaughtering, Raping and Robbing thousands of American Citizens each year.

The Corrupt Politicians and Liberal Media try to get the public to believe they are Compassion, & Wise for wanting open borders and amnesty. While American Citizens are racist & xenophobe if we request that our Constitution and Immigration laws be followed and enforced for all law breakers irregardless of race or nationally!

It is the money they get from business from supplying them slave labor with 20K worth of benefits paid each year by the tax payers and the Latino votes with the promise of millions more if we give them amnesty that they are really after.

If they really are Compassion and Caring there are Millions of American Citizens that have played by
the rules, payed their taxes, obeyed the laws, fought the wars and built this Nation that are in great need. The Politicians could use American Citizens to show their Compassion. But Compassion for American citizens or legal Immigrants does not get Money and Votes for our Corrupt lying Politicians.

Less face the truth Mexico has a official policy of offloading their Uneducated peons, criminals and other undesirables on the USA. They provide them documents and instruction in the form of funny papers (because many if not most cannot read) on how to avoid the border parole. How to get illegal documents and jobs in the USA. By off loading their uneducated peons, criminals and other undesirables on American taxpayers they avoid a revolution in Mexico and improve the standard of living while gaining billions in remittance back to Mexico. They play the race very effective and appeal to the Compassion of American citizens. In the long run maybe the most effective thing we could do for Mexico is deport every illegal Mexican in the USA. After having lived here and getting used to the standard of living here if we send back the 12 to 30 million back to Mexico they would demand a better, less corrupt government. It may require an revolution there but the end results hopefully would be a better country! Mexico as countries go is rich there is no reason they cannot do a better job in caring for their citizens.

In Spite of the soaring rhetoric and promises from our Presidential Candidates this Nation faces it most perilous times since WWII. Most of the Candidates are refusing to recognize or address problems that in time will destroy this nation!

We have an arrogant, incompetent, illiterate, and inept fool in the White House, a demoralized and decimated military, plundered treasury, trashed world standing, trampled rule of Law and Constitution. While the nation is sinking under an tidal wave of Uneducated Illegal Aliens waving the Mexican flag, demanding their rights, while feasting at the trough of Public Welfare, as they Kill, Rob, and Rape thousands of American Citizens each year. .

We as a nation can survive fools in our White House. What we CANNOT survive is fools both in our Congress and white house like Bush, McCain, Hillary, Obama, Kennedy, Reid, etc. & now they want to be President! Each promising a new American, rebuilding the middle class and taking care of the poor. But what they refuse to acknowledge or recognize is no single Nation or people is rich enough to lift the 100,s of millions of poor out of poverty. In others words American & American taxpayers cannot bear the cost of becoming the welfare state for Mexico and Latin American. To attempt to do so will only reduce all Americans to poverty equaling what the uneducated invaders are fleeing from in their home countries. The poor and criminals pouring across our Borders have an average of an six grade education. Each person with less than a high education is a net cost of 20k per year for American taxpayers. This applies to American citizens as well as the millions of Illegal Aliens. So the displaced compassion endorsed by Edwards, Obama, McCain, Hillary etc. is deeply flawed. Failure to close our border or to give Amnesty to the 12 to 30 millions of Illegal Aliens in this country will in the long run, with the Chain Immigration result in adding 100 to 160 millions poor citizens to our welfare rolls. Their high school drop out rates exceed 50 percent with a high crime rate and a very high illegitimate birth rate, the very combination that keeps Mexico & Latin American a cesspool of poverty & misery!

Maybe the results is what the multinational companies and the rich dream of, a Nation full of poor docile labors like China, India, Mexico so the rich can live like the kings of old and the rest can live like the peons in Mexico that are pouring across our borders, but I do not believe it is the future most Americans aspire to for their children and grand children!

In all, my country, a potential benefactor and beacon for all the world - is headed right off a cliff and to an third world status!

If the Politicians with the Citizens support, decide they must do more for the worlds poor then they must find a way like an Marshall plan for Latin American. What they must not be allowed to do, though flawed logic or by criminal intent is to turn this Nation into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, and Misery by continuing the open borders policy and Amnesty for the millions pouring across our borders.

In my view - and in the view of many educated thinking Americans - this has all come to pass because the Politicians, the elected and sworn stewards of this country, have allowed it to happen. Surely they should have known better…when they refused to abide by the Constitution against invasion or enforce our laws they disgraced their oath of office. One way this Nation can start to recover is for the lot of them to be gone from those hallowed halls of Congress and the White House, because most of them have become a house of party-bound prostitutes paid by the special interests, swirling and partying, amidst the rubble of their own malfeasance - taking this Nation right down with them.

As a proud and concerned American that proudly served my Country in time of War as did my Father, my two brothers and my son. I am appalled and very angry at what self severing, stupid/corrupt politicians have done to my country!

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Why is it that our government cannot force Mexican and Latin American Governments to answer for their own actions towards their own citizens

Why is it that they are forcing people to flee their country just so these immigrants can have a hells chance at LIVING andpossibly help out their family as well. WHAT IN THE HELLARE THEY DOING TO THESE PEOPLE I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUSON FORCING THEIR GOVERNMENTS WAY OF GOVERNING OUT THE DOOR AND HELP THESE PEOPLE BECOME DEMOCRATIZED AND ALLOW FREE TRADE AND DECENT SANTITATION AND WHATEVER ELSE IS NEEDED SO THEY CAN STAY WITH THEIR FAMILYS AND PROSPER AND HAVE A DECENT CHANCE AT SOME SORT OF LIFE AND WITH HOPE AND PROMISE OF BETTERMENT. THATSWHAT WEARETRYINGTO DO FOR IRAQ RIGHT? WHEN IS IT LATIN AMERICA AND MEXICO'S TURN?

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I AM APPALLED @ HOW MANY MEXICAN'S HAVE MADE IT THROUGH THE BORDER OF MEXICO INTO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ... WHAT THESE MEN DID TO THOSE SMALL CHILDREN IN BRUTALLY RAPING THEM - I SAY DEATH PENALTY TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE CREEPS! ENOUGH AMERICA WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO COMPLETELY CLOSE OUR BORDERS - MOST MEXICANS HAVE NOT EVEN APPLIED THROUGH OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS! I AM DISGUSTED AND SICK WHEN I READ AND HEARD ON THE NEW'S THAT THEY HAD RAPED THESE YOUNG CHILDREN ... ENOUGH ALREADY GET THE FREAKING MEXICANS OUT OF OUR COUNTY AND I DO MEAN NOW!

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Mistreated like they were not warned? Theres a reason the signs that say "do not enter" are in spanish also.

Hi all!

Very interesting information! Thanks!


G'night

I think there are many people who forget that Americans also move to Mexico (although they may not be illegally entering the country). I DON"T think that the many people who have retired in Mexico or are planning on retiring on Mexico will appreciate what our U.S. Government is doing to alienate Mexico!

To those who suggest that it's the duty of the United States to open its doors to people in need (of money I guess), why are you fighting so hard to let Mexicans into this country? Probably 90% of Africa is in much more dire need than Mexico, yet I don't hear anyone suggest a huge outreach program to solve Africa's problems by letting everyone there run away to the U.S. Which leads me to believe that most of those who make that argument do so disingenuously.

I'm all for immigration as long as it's legal and doesn't threaten to overwhelm us. This country can certainly benefit from the perspectives, talent and (some of the) values that foreign born people can bring. I simply do not want to have more than half of all the immigrants to this country coming from one country, the vast majority illegally. I don't give a damn what business wants, we've paid dearly for having our lower and lower-middle classes reduced to near second world status by the constant unregulated influx of cheap labor. Americans will do any job, you simply have to pay them fairly.

Sorry I spelled your name wrong ( not intended)

My comment was for J Kaas

I use to work with Mexicans ( you know, it was one of those jobs that Americans won't do, in a factory, it closed down, went over seas.) We tried to befriend these people, we talked about our families, our cultures, how we grew up, exchanged recipes. One day the bosses told them they could only speak Spanish at lunch and breaks. They became very angry. I told the ladies that I worked with that I could imagine how I would feel if I was in another country and I met someone that spoke my language and I could imagine it being nice to converse with them. I told them I didn't mind if they spoke Spanish when they wanted. This was the last time they spoke English! Every day from 7:00 to 3:30 all I heard was Spanish. My friends! The ones that I reached out to make welcome. And they use to make comments like "I bet you wish you knew what we are saying? Maybe we are talking about you". I was at the grocery store, next in line, had all my groceries on the counter, I look up here they are, just go straight to the front of the line. Back to me, didn't say a word. I said Excuse me, would you mind getting to the back of the line? The guy turned around and looked at me like I was crazy. He points to a couple going out the door with their buggy and says I'm with them. All the sudden this older guy comes running over telling me "yeah, we are his parents, he is with us". Like that gives him the right to just cut in line. Had he asked you know, My parents are leaving could I get in front of you, I would have said sure go ahead. Every time I come in contact with these people they are so rude. Don't go to a convenience store those Mexican men stand literally on your back. Now I know there is good in every race; but I haven't met the good ones here yet.

The apologists for Mexico would want us to believe that Mexicans love to share. Not true. Mexico has harsh and restrictive laws against immigrants and foreigners living in Mexico that make it very difficult if not impossible for immigrants and foreigners to buy a house or property or become a citizen of Mexico.

How ironic that apologists for Mexico say we should learn to share yet Mexicans don't want to share theirs?

Mexican government wants us to treat their illegal immigrants humanely, but look how barbaric the Mexicans rob and rape central and south America's migrants crossing Mexico's southern border.

As a mostly Native American, middle class, hard working, tax paying, college educated citizen of the US, it is getting extremely difficult for me to choke down any more crap from governments (ours or anyone else's)and opinionated idiots. Throughout history, peoples and nations have been conquered, invaded and exterminated. Nothing has changed. I think the peaceful, though socially embarassing, movement of Mexico's sons and daughters to the percievably bountiful US is nothing more than a nuisance and if ignorant Americans would take the time to get to know a few Mexicans and maybe even pick up a few phrases, this wouldn't be so difficult. As millions of mothers have said in the past, "Learn to share!"

When there are far more important issues in the world (global warming, Darfur, gas prices, corruption, Iraq, starvation - take your pick), why would we even spend one more minute on this silly subject? GROW UP!

BL wrote "This Nation will be inundated with 10,s of Millions of Prolific breeders." After posting a list of falsehoods.

Racism and lies. What a great combination! Last time we heard that was during the Civil Rights movement when the people like bl were trying to keep the colored folk in their place.

Got some bad news for you. The Mexicans are here to stay--at the express invitation of Big Business. You know you can't beat Big Business, so take your, well, let's be charitable and call them mistakes of fact, and get used to it.

The Mexican population perceive evil in the following order (those that force them to live in poverty): corrupt Mexican oligarchy ruling class, corrupt justice officials and law enforcers, corrupt government bureaucrats, illegal drugs trafficking cartels, criminals,...etc. and the so called "U.S. empire" is not even on top of their list.

If the Mexican government ruling elites couldn't or won't help the poverty stricken Mexican population, then Mexican people have the right to overthrow the corrupt Mexican oligarchy ruling class by revolution.

I also agree with Mr. Krauze's comments that the United States needs allies and probably more so than at any other time in its history. The U.S. is becoming more isolated and losing its influence all around the world. America can't afford to have the Mexican population perceive the U.S. as an "evil empire" the way so many other Latin American countries already do.

Although I think the Mexican government should be held accountable for providing more jobs, I don't think punishing hard-working people by sending them back to their countries is the answer.

If the United States wants to remain the world's dominant force, it will have to compromise its politics and views so that more people around the globe remain sympathetic with American values.

Otherwise, it will be China and the European Union dictating how the world is shaped and the United States will end up as a Second World Country with not a lot of influence.

mr goh, you said "I also contend that the non-racism of any attitude should not be judged vis a vis the existence of nation states. Rather, whether or not an attitude or statement is racist should be judged whether or not such an attitude presumes an individual's inferiority or superiority based solely upon race or national origin."

i, on the other hand, contend that (the eucharist aside) the twee redneck attitudes of the hordes both north and south of any boarder presumes and inferiority not just in the infinite mind of the viewer and the viewee, but also in the great unwashed masses looking in on the problem from another continent, equidistant both to and from the remote access locale co-terminal with any new upmarket racist ideology. furthermore, the dogmatic intervention of all racist elites since the days of the epic of gilgamesh have long foisted their opinions of entitlement upon those who would only work for 23 cents every given work day, no matter, like in the gospel of matthew, if they started their work in the early morning, or waited till well past a mamwich lunch. if we look past this more obvious example, we see the hegemony persists far into the subtleties of interconnectivity between nation states, like veins transisting to capillaries, and in that transfusion we see that third world economies are still up the creek without paddles or outboard motors, trying desperately to wage war with the long surf of the gulf of california, and maybe, after risking their own lives like the greek tragedians and those of their progeny either in the nest back at mazatlan or right there in the boat with them, they might crusade upon the vital shores of orange county, and rise wading in the effervescent surf as a conqueror king like Cuchullian, and only then will the gringos understand, that what they were able to take so easily at the point of a colt and build with the railroad-excreting colon of henry h. huntington, will be scrutinized and derided and lusted after by the lookers on, no matter how much pigment in their skin, or how many wives their religion permits them to take.

so much hate, so much fear, so much frustration, so few sensible suggestions ID and tax all immigrants, legal or illegal, make them pay tax to support Bush's Crusades and social security which the Republicans have raped to support the white baby boomers. Look for the money in this Americans - that is what we are best at. The core problem here is that America is afraid of Democracy - that one day legal Latinos will be in the majority and the tables will be turned on the whites.

The politics of Hate America is going on right now in the US Senate where those who hate America and support Illegal Aliens are in control and winning. They are winning by following the ancient roman notion of DIVIDE ET IMPERA (divide and rule). Instead of having an up or down vote on the entire Kennedy-Mahoney-McCain package, the floor managers are being successful feeding little bits into the mix one at a time. A battle between massed forces and forces fed into the battle piecemeal ALWAYS results in the massed forces slaughtering the forces fed into the battle piecemeal. The typically small-minded and short-sighted Senators opposing this 5 TRILLION dollar every decade boondoogle pork legislation simply seem unable to help each other defeat the entire bill by cooperating on the little bits being expertly fed into the mix. FINIS AMERICA

"GO South young man Go South, beyon the Border(s). As Prophecied and Promised Viva a La Mexican war Treaty???????!

ya Ya, Monroe Doctrine Is Gonna Rise Again! Eeeee Ha! Praise the Lord Holy NoMan ECLATi!

The most serious problem American Faces is not Terrorism but the Mass Invasion from Mexico. The Largest Invasion in World History is destroying our Schools, Medical Systems, Judicial System, and the Rule of Law, while Slaughtering, Raping & Robbing Americans by the 10,s of thousands. They are destroying our Social cohesion & turning us into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Benefiting the Rich paid for by the poor & Middle Class! If this Amnesty is passed it will lead in time to Riots, Fires & Civil unrest on a scale greater than the 60,s and possibly Civil war!

Both Democratic and Republican administrations have ignored Article IV Section IV of our Constitution & our Laws that is supposed to protect this Country from Invasion! They have ignored our Constitution, Failed to enforce our Laws, and dishonored their Oath of Office

President Bush has not only ignored our Constitution & Laws he has Aided, Abided, Encouraged and Collaborated with a foreign government to Subvert our Constitution! To ignore our Constitution is grounds for Impeachment, to engage in Subverting our Constitution is Treason!

This Policy continues today even after the Wake-Up call of 9/11!

When you have Senators that are swore to Defend the Constitution & Uphold our Laws encourage Criminals to break them then you have Criminals for Politicians! When our Politicians that think our Constitution is just a damn piece of Paper & Laws are meant to be broken then we are headed down the Slippery Slope of Anarchy!

Illegal Aliens start by breaking the Law by Arriving Illegally using Forged Document and engaging in a wide range of Illegal Activities that would get an American Citizens Fined and in Jail.

If an American Citizen is caught driving without driver licenses or insurance they face heavy fines & possible lost of driving Privileges. Illegal Aliens on the other hand are usually released with no punishment! The same is true for identify thief and benefits using false SS cards & for a host of other Crimes that American Citizens would feel the full weight of the Law!

Our Politicians answer to these crimes is not to punish them, but to reward them!

Only someone that is Brain-dead would believe rewarding Criminals results in less Criminals or Crime!

People that start out by breaking the Laws & are Rewarded for doing so, have little respect or regard for any Laws & see this Nation and American Citizens as ripe for Plunder!

They take full advantage of every benefit they can get Legal or Illegally!

Illegal Aliens have an informal but highly effective net work to inform other Illegal Aliens where to get bogus documents & any new scams to get benefits illegally! Most Illegal Aliens works off the books & pays no taxes but still somehow gets an Earned Income tax credit ranging form 1500.00 to 3200.00 returned to them every year from American taxpayers!

Illegal Aliens arrive in this Country from Counties where rampant Crime and Corruption has been a way of life for Centuries, is it any wonder they bring those same Family Values across the Border with them and are busy creating the same type of environment in the USA!

They retain loyally to the Native Countries & Exploit the Compassion of Americans & the Corruption of our Politicians by using us & having nothing but contempt for a people & Nation that does not have the Political Will or Integrity in its Politicians to enforce our Laws & our Constitution against Invasion.

To put it bluntly & without being Politically Correct, Illegal Aliens & Many of our Politicians are Parasites & Criminals feasting on the backs of American Citizens!

Illegal Aliens seek not to build this Nation, but to use the fruits of Labor of Legal American Citizens that immigrated to this country legally & have in 230 years of Blood, Sweat, Tears, and Sacrifice built this Nation!

While the Illegal Invaders have built nothing but a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty & Misery in their own Counties for the masses, but a Elite class of very Rich, and Corrupt for the few.

Could this be what many of our Politicians are hoping to Achieve here in the USA?

You hear our Politicians like Bush, Kennedy, Hillary, McCain, Reid, Spector, Brownback, and Martinez, that’s wants to give them Amnesty, only they are so dishonest they refuse to call it Amnesty! They talk about the Rule of Law & Amnesty in the same sentence. This is an Oxymoron of the first order!

We hear the same Politicians speaking of seeking Bipartisan support for a Comprehensive solution to Illegal Aliens which are code words for Amnesty without any means or intend to enforce the Laws or our Constitution & close our Borders, just like they did with the 1986 Amnesty!

They further obscure & confuse the issue with Political Spin & Lies by saying it is only 7 or 8 million when the best independent estimates of the Illegal population was 20 million years ago & we have 5 to 10 thousand more pouring across our borders every day since then.

They conveniently forget to inform American Citizens that each Illegal Alien granted citizenship has the option to bringing in 5 family members in a never ending chain, so at the very least we are talking about 60 million or so in the next 15 to 20 years, a more realistic number is probably 150 million or more.

This Nation will be inundated with 10,s of Millions of Prolific breeders. Citizens with an average of 6 grade education and a 50 percent school drop out rate to populate the gangs & welfare rolls.

This is the same thing that happens with the last Amnesty, only this time it is on a scale large enough to destroy this Nation and turn the USA into another Mexico!

What we really have is a club of Millionaires in the Senate & the Democrat party seeking to deceive American Citizens again & pass a Law to reward other Millionaires with an unlimited supply of 21 First Century slaves.

While they reward their selves with the votes from Latinos and money they receive from Corporations for destroying this Nation!

The intent is to exploit both the Illegal Aliens for their Cheap Labor and the Poor & Middle class American Citizens as victims of the Illegal Alien’s crime, deteriorating standard of living and the 100,s of billions in welfare costs!

While the users of the Illegal Aliens Labor laugh all the way to the bank with their obscene profits! They get richer while the rest sink into Poverty! In Bush’s term in office 5.4 million more American Citizens have slipped into poverty l & if they succeed in this Amnesty, American will become a Nation of Poverty with the Rich, Elite and Corrupt ruling and the rest is slaving for pennies like the Peons in Mexico!

If this Amnesty is passed is anything like the Senate version as currently written, it will result in harm to this Nation almost beyond ones imagination!

The last Amnesty resulted in the largest increase in Crime and Welfare of any bill ever passed & compared to this Amnesty it was minuscule.

Illegal Aliens as percentage of population & the ones given Citizenship by the last Amnesty contribute more too both Crime & Welfare, than any other group in the USA!

So you be the judge of what the results of next Amnesty will be & the harm it will do!
.
The press is as guilty as the Politicians in trying to foster off this massive Amnesty bill on the American Public. They continue to refer to the Mass Invasion of Illegal Aliens as Immigrants which could not be further from the truth.

They fail to point out the harmful impact of the last Amnesty in 1986.

None report what the detrimental affects will be to our Population, Standard of living, Crime, Environment, Welfare or a host of other problems with the Senate bill!

Many Nations have tried to build a great Nation on the Back of Slaves, all have failed. If this were not so Mexico & other third world Nations would be rich instead of poor!

For anyone that has never lived in an third country & experienced the horrible conditions & do not understand what will happen to this Country if the Senate Amnesty is passed go visit the interior of Mexico, there you will see the future of this Nation!

We, as American Citizens owe & have the duty to prior generations that built this country at great personal sacrifice & to future generations, to rise up in protest from coast to coast and tell our Corrupt Politicians, No Not Again!

fxtrader77:
To Krystof-
Your attempt to equate the so called "Iron Curtain" with the right of any nation to secure it's borders in a way it deems necessary is both laughable and fallacious. There is no valid comparison between the two.

ANS:
No my dear friend actually the comparison is, but not in a way that you are insinuating it. In addition, what do you knew about the borders in Eastern Europe any way. By the way, I am not condemning the right of the USA to secure its borders of this republic. Actually only implying that perhaps large number of troops to be deployed as an emergency measure to control the crisis. on the border USA & Mexico.
This to be done in large-scale maneuver just as it was done by Soviet Bloc or the department of INS will hire 250 000 to 500 000 new border guards to deal with this immigration exodus.. This will do the
Job to control the borders of the USA. The current Immigration bill is a joke most law makers
do not know what they voting for, they haven’t read the documents they have not done the
Homework as they should have.
Thanks for attention Krystof

If the USA did this to Mexico they would take action, but we are so PC & Corrupt we let Mexico use a bunch of illiterate Peons with a average 6 grade education take this Nation & make the tax payers pay them for turning this country into another Third World Cesspool!
1. Did the United States violate the sovereignty and borders of Mexico by encouraging, aiding, & assisting 20 million of their most undesirable illiterate American peasants to cross the border illegally?
2. Did American send 128 Billions worth of drugs each year across the Mexican Borders to Destroy Millions of Mexican lives?
3. Did illegal American Citizens in Mexico, kill nearly 10 thousands Mexicans each year & Rob, Rape & Assault 10,s of thousands more?
4. Did American illegal aliens engage in wholesale forgery of vital public documents and commit identity theft in order to secure employment, education, credit, and access to public services?
5. Did American illegal aliens feed at the public trough for health care, education, food, housing and other vital services to which they were not entitled, and which cost Mexican taxpayers hundreds of billions of pesos each year?
6. Did the impact of serving American illegal aliens force scores of medical facilities into bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of vital medical services for Mexican citizens?
7. Did American illegal aliens who refused to pay for medical services manage to send $30 billion a year back to the United States?
8. Did American illegal aliens refuse to learn Spanish, and demand that Mexico provide services in English at considerable cost to Mexican citizens & to their Culture?
9. Did the children of American illegal aliens slow down and otherwise impede the education of Mexican children because of language and cultural issues & add Billions to the Education cost & Dummy down the Mexicans Children Education?
10. Did American illegal aliens demand driver's licenses despite being in Mexico illegally? Did they demand that driver instruction and testing materials be in English?
11. Did American illegal aliens demand the same reduced tuition rates offered to Mexican students there legally?
12. Did American illegal aliens vote in Mexican elections and alter election results?
13. Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexico's penal system, making it impossible to deal with the citizen inmate population?
14. Did the largest state in Mexico contract with another Mexican state for the housing and care of 15,000 inmates because of the impact of American illegal aliens?
15. Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexican hospitals, medical clinics, and emergency rooms and refuse to pay for medical services received?
16. Did American illegal aliens in Mexico in 1986 receive amnesty in an attempt by the Mexican government to end illegal migrations once and for all?
17. Did the Mexican government refuse to enforce the provisions of the amnesty, thereby causing the American illegal alien problem to grow seven times greater in the span of 20 years?
18. Did millions of American illegal aliens take to the streets to protest pending legislation in the Mexican congress that would tighten border security and enforce the nation's immigration laws?
19. Did American illegal aliens wave Old Glory and scream "Yes we can!" and "We are Mexico" & “everything for the “White race & nothing for the rest” in English as they marched to protest the rule of law in Mexico?
20. Did American illegal aliens cry "Racism" every time they were criticized for being in Mexico illegally or challenged to learn Spanish and assimilate into Mexican society?
21. Did Americans Politicians state Often & Openly they were going to take Mexico over? They way Mexican officials have in Mexico & La Raza the Mexican racist, hate Org in the USA has?
22. Did Mexico pay for over 300.000 American Anchor Babies born to Illegal Americans Citizens each year in Mexico & give the Babies Mexican Citizenship?
23. Did American drive millions of cars & trucks each day without driver Licenses or Insurance, clogging the roads, polluting the air & trashing the environment?
24. Did illegal Americans take Mexicans jobs & drive Mexico’s standard living down by 250 billions per year?
25. Did Americans Illegally in Mexico bred like Fruit Flies on a Viagra diet & make the Mexican Taxpayers paid for their medical bills & the 10,000.00 Average per year to send them to School at the expense of Mexican Children Education?
26. Did American Citizens Carry third diseases across the Border to Mexico and infect 10,s of thousands of Mexicans Citizens with disease resistance stains of TB & type A & B liver diseases from feces on food?
No American did not, Mexico did that & much more to American, and they dare to complain!
American is on the down hill race to Destruction! When you ignore the Constitution & Laws of the land to add Millions of Law Breaking, Fast breeding, Uneducated, Criminally Inclined, Welfare loving, Education hating citizens with hated of American & Loyally to a Foreign Nation then you are asking to be destroyed!
If Americans Politicians were not so Corrupt & Willing to sell this Nation & Americans Citizens out for Money & Votes the US Military would be on the Border with Guns Protecting this Nation from the Largest Invasion in History!

I am part of the crowd that believes Mexicans and the other Latinos that form the overwhelming majority of illegals here should go home and focus on improving their own countries. They have no connection with the US, not our customs, nor our culture, nor language, nor armed services. They are ill-equipped to live here -- criticizing Americans while behaving like hungry animals. Go home and leave us in peace.

If the USA did this to Mexico they would take action, but we are so PC & Corrupt we let Mexico use a bunch of illiterate Peons with a average 6 grade education take this Nation & make the tax payers pay them for turning this country into another Third World Cesspool!
1. Did the United States violate the sovereignty and borders of Mexico by encouraging, aiding, & assisting 20 million of their most undesirable illiterate American peasants to cross the border illegally?
2. Did American send 128 Billions worth of drugs each year across the Mexican Borders to Destroy Millions of Mexican lives?
3. Did illegal American Citizens in Mexico, kill nearly 10 thousands Mexicans each year & Rob, Rape & Assault 10,s of thousands more?
4. Did American illegal aliens engage in wholesale forgery of vital public documents and commit identity theft in order to secure employment, education, credit, and access to public services?
5. Did American illegal aliens feed at the public trough for health care, education, food, housing and other vital services to which they were not entitled, and which cost Mexican taxpayers hundreds of billions of pesos each year?
6. Did the impact of serving American illegal aliens force scores of medical facilities into bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of vital medical services for Mexican citizens?
7. Did American illegal aliens who refused to pay for medical services manage to send $30 billion a year back to the United States?
8. Did American illegal aliens refuse to learn Spanish, and demand that Mexico provide services in English at considerable cost to Mexican citizens & to their Culture?
9. Did the children of American illegal aliens slow down and otherwise impede the education of Mexican children because of language and cultural issues & add Billions to the Education cost & Dummy down the Mexicans Children Education?
10. Did American illegal aliens demand driver's licenses despite being in Mexico illegally? Did they demand that driver instruction and testing materials be in English?
11. Did American illegal aliens demand the same reduced tuition rates offered to Mexican students there legally?
12. Did American illegal aliens vote in Mexican elections and alter election results?
13. Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexico's penal system, making it impossible to deal with the citizen inmate population?
14. Did the largest state in Mexico contract with another Mexican state for the housing and care of 15,000 inmates because of the impact of American illegal aliens?
15. Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexican hospitals, medical clinics, and emergency rooms and refuse to pay for medical services received?
16. Did American illegal aliens in Mexico in 1986 receive amnesty in an attempt by the Mexican government to end illegal migrations once and for all?
17. Did the Mexican government refuse to enforce the provisions of the amnesty, thereby causing the American illegal alien problem to grow seven times greater in the span of 20 years?
18. Did millions of American illegal aliens take to the streets to protest pending legislation in the Mexican congress that would tighten border security and enforce the nation's immigration laws?
19. Did American illegal aliens wave Old Glory and scream "Yes we can!" and "We are Mexico" & “everything for the “White race & nothing for the rest” in English as they marched to protest the rule of law in Mexico?
20. Did American illegal aliens cry "Racism" every time they were criticized for being in Mexico illegally or challenged to learn Spanish and assimilate into Mexican society?
21. Did Americans Politicians state Often & Openly they were going to take Mexico over? They way Mexican officials have in Mexico & La Raza the Mexican racist, hate Org in the USA has?
22. Did Mexico pay for over 300.000 American Anchor Babies born to Illegal Americans Citizens each year in Mexico & give the Babies Mexican Citizenship?
23. Did American drive millions of cars & trucks each day without driver Licenses or Insurance, clogging the roads, polluting the air & trashing the environment?
24. Did illegal Americans take Mexicans jobs & drive Mexico’s standard living down by 250 billions per year?
25. Did Americans Illegally in Mexico bred like Fruit Flies on a Viagra diet & make the Mexican Taxpayers paid for their medical bills & the 10,000.00 Average per year to send them to School at the expense of Mexican Children Education?
26. Did American Citizens Carry third diseases across the Border to Mexico and infect 10,s of thousands of Mexicans Citizens with disease resistance stains of TB & type A & B liver diseases from feces on food?
No American did not, Mexico did that & much more to American, and they dare to complain!
American is on the down hill race to Destruction! When you ignore the Constitution & Laws of the land to add Millions of Law Breaking, Fast breeding, Uneducated, Criminally Inclined, Welfare loving, Education hating citizens with hated of American & Loyally to a Foreign Nation then you are asking to be destroyed!
If Americans Politicians were not so Corrupt & Willing to sell this Nation & Americans Citizens out for Money & Votes the US Military would be on the Border with Guns Protecting this Nation from the Largest Invasion in History!

Hum. Let's see. Mexican soldiers fire on U.S. Border Patrol Agents. Drug runners murder U.S. citizens. Millions of Mexican refugees from the violence, poverty and corruption of Mexico flee to the U.S. Once here, over half of the murders and violent crime is due to them. They cost the U.S. taxpayer over 1.5 trillion dollars a year. They take jobs from American's, willingly working 12 and 14 hour days for 6 to 8 and hour paid under the table.

Sounds an awful lot like Iraq to me. Sounds a lot like Somalia and Mymar and other hellish third world disasters. It's on our border, so it's time completely shut down our border. We want no part of the failed and miserable and corrupt state that is Mexico.

REgarding Mexico: Much of what I read here is true. So what? Self rationalization is preaching to a choir of one, your own gang. Perspectives are enriched by self searching and reaching out to walk in anothers shoes. Illegal immigration is both a boon and a bane in the US, depending on where you live. Dealing with the issue is an imbalance between a very legitimate need for sovereignty and border control on the one side and a humanitarian understanding that economic migrants are the norm in history. In the words of Thomas Freidman, we need a good fence with wide gates. However let us please get past the concept that the US stole the Western states from Mexico. These areas were frontier outposts interesting to the Spanish/ French elites that founded the small settlements as a buffer zone to protect the Mexican heartland from the Russians, British and Americans they thought would come down to expell them. There was precious little in the way of settled communities, it was mainly open frontier. America moved west, and yes with a deliberate concoisness of mastering the continent. But it took almost no force to do it. The Mexican Presidio in Monterey was beat with one cannon shot over the head of the Alcalde.

To MEXICANO:

If Mexicans can spend their energy making Mexico a better country instead of using their energy to make Mexico into another "North Korea" in order to hurt the United States, then Mexicans have a better chance of improving their living standard in Mexico.

To Mexicano:

You said: "you just can drop nuke on it, and make it the biggest nuclear waste land in the whole world."

You must be a Mexican with a sick mind. What kind of Mexican would wish his country to be bombed with a NUKE?

You said: "Let Mexico become even more corrupted or change the fake democracy we have into something more like north Korea. My point is what kind of neighbord do you want to have."

I can see Mexicans want to hurt America so much that they are willing to hurt themselves first to achieve that goal by turnint Mexico into North Korea.

What you have is not a solution but a threat. We will not be intimidated by your threat.

Now we can see very clearly Mexicans' evil intention toward the United States.

If our country is so evil - don't come here.
If our movies are so awful - don't watch them.
Don't eat at McDonald's.
Don't shop at Home Depot.
Don't drink Starbuck's coffee.
The NBA is a joke.