Good site! I'll stay reading! Keep improving!

Lamis Andoni,

Sorry, but you have to realize that your socialist propaganda and agitation is out of touch with reality. Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Ze Dong, Minh, and other socialist dictators and mass murderers are dead as well as socialism. So what? Do you really believe that socialism gets a second chance? No doubt, that's never going to happen.

By the way, without guys such as George W. Bush you wouldn't be able to spread such a nonsense.

While I understand how your criticism is founded on many horrible events, and there are no signs of popular support anywhere for the war in Iraq, criticism without constructive content does us no good.

Unfortunately, a decision that was poorly made will be poorly concluded unless people speak up about what Iraq needs, especially those that actually know from experience. As much as I would love to recall the troops and stop the current surge in Iraq, it is the US obligation (moral, political and otherwise) that must be fulfilled before we leave.

Perhaps it is disheartening to look at it from this perspective, but the term "you broke it, you bought it" comes to mind. Displeased as I am at the way the war has gone and lives it has cost I will be disgusted if we leave without putting things back together. The best I can hope is for a greater show of cooperation from all parties involved.

And maybe next time, when you write to tell us that we are doing things wrong, you can tell us what needs to be changed?

Rob writes:

"I suppose that you, American Observer, would also excuse the foreign policies of George W. Bush on the logic that he is not the first president to have waged a war to "promote democracy."

American Observer replies:

Actually, you can blame George Bush for a lot. You can blame George Bush for failing to protect the governmental buildings of Iraq and you can blame George Bush for failing to protect the museums of Iraq, even though every expert on the region know that the Arabs of Iraq would start looting their own city as soon as the tyrant was gone. You can blame George Bush for not quickly and dramatically executing the thousands of Arabs who started stealing and kiling other Arabs as soon as the tyrant was gone. You can blame George Bush for sending Arthur Bremer to Iraq to institute the 'Flat Tax' -- oh, you can blame him for that. You can blame George Bush for failing to hold elections within ninety days, as he could have done, and you can blame George Bush for not installing an elected government within six months, as he could and should have done.

You can blame George Bush for a lot of things, Rob, and as an American I am proud that I voted for Bill Clinton, twice; and I am proud that I voted for Al Gore and I voted for John Kerry. Nonetheless, I think it is time to puncture a few illusions.

The people of Iraq are now in control of the future of Iraq. The Iraqis have had an elected government for two years now, and the Iraqis have cell phones and internet connections and the use of the mails. If the Iraqis were civilized enough to hold their own 'constitutional convention,' they could and should have done that, and they could have negotiated any sort of government that they wanted. Then, if the people of Iraq wanted 'the imperialist gringo yankees' to leave, a few weeks of passive resistance wouold have driven 'the imperialist gringo yankees' right home -- at this point, I think even the most fanatic Republican would be glad to see the last of Iraq.

Unfortunately, the Arabs of Iraq have not choosen to do any of those things. Instead, the Arabs of Iraq have choosen to slaughter each other in the ancient way of the Arabs. Neither Dick Cheney nor anyone else has enough 'outer space voodoo death rays' to make the Arabs do what they don't want to do, Rob; the constant violence today merely shows the Arabs working out their differences with the same methods they have used since the time of Mohamed.

American Observer writes:

"Moslems have been killing Moslems since long before America existed, and Moslems have been killing Moslems since long before any 'Western Imperialists' reached the Middle East....Moslems kill Moslems because violence is fundamental to Islam."

To obscure the instability caused by American and European involvement in the Middle East (and Africa), however much violence might have been going on before the modern period, is simply ridiculous.

I suppose that you, American Observer, would also excuse the foreign policies of George W. Bush on the logic that he is not the first president to have waged a war to "promote democracy."

the dream of two neo imperialist is dead end of iraq. now one became the envoy of middle east peace and another may be the next king of afghanistan afater zaheer shah.so work still half done but better half done.

Ms Adoni seems to have forgotten her history. Saddam killed more Arabs and Muslims than any man who ever lived.

Bush is piker, compared to Saddam. Bush rescued the Iraqi people from Saddam.

In fact, it's not Bush who is doing most of the indiscriminate killing. It's Ms Adoni's Arab brethren who are accomplishing that all by their lonesome.

Ms Adoni is a pathetic enabler. But Islamofascists are like that. Everyone is to blame but them.

It's time for Middle Easterners to take responsibility for their sordid, murderous history and come out in support of a free and democratic Iraq.

At least Mr. Bush thinks he is doing something to facilitate change in the region. Ms Adoni and her ilk only seem to want more of the same old Islamofascist butchery and oppression.

JRLR says that Bokko In Australia is:

"Quite right. Very astute."

American Observer:

Shakes his head in sorrow and disappointment.

JRLR, you need to understand the difference between logic and rhetoric. We both see Moslems killing Moslems in Palestine and Lebanon and Iraq and Sudan and Nigeria and Pakistan; but Moslems were killing Moslems in Palestine and Lebanon and Iraq and Sudan and Nigeria and Pakistan before America wrote the Declaration of Independence, and Moslems were killing Moslems in Palestine and Lebanon and Iraq and Sudan and Nigeria and Pakistan before Columbus sailed across the ocean and landed on the island of Hispanola.

Moslems have been killing Moslems since long before America existed, and Moslems have been killing Moslems since long before any 'Western Imperialists' reached the Middle East. Moslems have been killing Moslems since the grandson of Mohamed led his rebellion against the Caliph and began the ancient war between Shia and Sunni, among other wars. Moslems do not kill Moslems because Dick Cheney has outer space voodoo death rays to control Moslem minds; Moslems kill Moslems because violence is fundamental to Islam.

The Moslem religion was founded on violence. It is too easy to forget that Mohamed himself was not just a prophet -- Mohamed was also a general and a king who forced his religion on other nations by military conquest, and who taught his followers to do the same, as well as to capture the women of other nations and use them as 'the trophies of battle.' Today Moslems are killing Moslems because the Moslem religion teaches them that it is okay to kill apostates and heretics and to solve political and religious problems by violence. If you doubt that, you need to go back to the books and study the history and scriptures of Islam for yourself.

Bukko wrote:

"President Cheney's job has also included getting the Palestinians to kill themselves (CHECK!), having the Lebanese kill each other (CHECK!) and various other Muslims in African nations engage in massive fratricide (Sudan -- CHECK! Nigeria -- CHECK!)"

American Observer replies:

Wow -- that is quite a list. Most of the people to who you refer cannot read or write, and they never watch American news broadcasts and they never trust anything that Americans say. Will you explain to us how Dick Cheney persuades these masses of illiterate Moslems to slaughter other masses of illiterate Moslems? Does he use outer space voodoo death rays, or what? Will you also blame Dick Cheney for the Bubonic Plague, the death of Hussein Ali at Karbala in the seventh century, and the extinction of the mastodons?
Perhaps you and Lamis Andoni can collaborate on a book on those subjects...

Bukko in Australia wrote: "Ms. Andoni's satire does not go far enough. President Cheney's job has also included getting the Palestinians to kill themselves (CHECK!), having the Lebanese kill each other (CHECK!) and various other Muslims in African nations engage in massive fratricide (Sudan -- CHECK! Nigeria -- CHECK!) His plan is coming to fruition in Pakistan, and they're working on starting internecine warfare in Iran. Will he have enough time in office to get Saudi Arabians cutting each others' throats?"

Quite right. Very astute.

Surprising, coming from the representatives of perhaps the society that believes most in "the survival of the fittest"! Beware, remembering there are now organisms that have become resistant to all known antibiotics...

One of the greatest calamities is when too much "success" turns into unmitigated, ultimate failure.

Law of negative returns: Eventually adding more "successes" might even lead to an overall decrease in the production of success", ultimately leading to what is known as failure. (CHECKMATE)

I get so tired of reading the antiislamic diatribes posted here. Thoughtful discussion does not include comparing the Koran to Mein kampf. It does not include "nuking" all Arabs. I have no special place in my heart for Islam or for that matter any religion. But some facts seem clear. All sides in this matter justify there claims with a religious ideology. Whether that is Bin laden making claims to a religious Caliphate or George Bush claiming to be doing God's bidding in establishing democracy in the Middle East the outcome is more death and suffering. The problems of Israel would be more readily solved if it were a secular, not a "Jewish" state. The West Bank Jewish settlements are justified by God's promise to the Jewish people. Not only is this believed by many observant Jews, but also by many fundamentalist Christians. As long as we allow the religionists to drive the discussion there will be no solution. Bin Laden and his minions must obviously be stopped. Their religious fanaticism has no place in the Christian or Islamic world. The US should withdraw support from Israel until it sits down with the Palestinians and implements a third party supported peace accord with teeth. Real muscle might have to be applied to keep the Israelis and the Palestinians apart possibly by a US supported United Nations force. The money saved by leaving Iraq could be used for this. The goal would be to return the West Bank to the Palestinians minus the Jewish settlements and the wall as well as full equality for Arab citizens of Israel. The US must immediately leave Iraq; the rest of the world including its nearest neighbors have to table religious differences and step to the plate to stabilize the country and keep the waring factions apart. This must be done by both Sunni and Shia Arab countries. The west can have no roll except perhaps logistical. A western troop presence only adds fuel to the fire. This also means talking to the parties involved, including Iran and its proxies. Finally we cannot allow Bush and Cheney to muck this up for another 18 months. Immediate impeachment to remove them from office for war crimes is needed. Furthermore strong action to force energy conservation including increased taxes, 55 mph speed limits, and limited use of fuel for entertainments such as boating and NASCAR as well as mass transit initiatives will also be needed so that we have enough independence to be able to stand up diplomatically to the Gulf Sates. I would support politicians who can clearly articulate a comprehensive plan along these lines.

Ms. Andoni's satire does not go far enough. President Cheney's job has also included getting the Palestinians to kill themselves (CHECK!), having the Lebanese kill each other (CHECK!) and various other Muslims in African nations engage in massive fratricide (Sudan -- CHECK! Nigeria -- CHECK!)

His plan is coming to fruition in Pakistan, and they're working on starting internecine warfare in Iran. Will he have enough time in office to get Saudi Arabians cutting each others' throats? Maybe it will take a "national state of emergency" in the U.S. that requires a "temporary suspension of electoral activity" to ensure "continuity of government" (see Presidential Directive 51, issued in May this year) to buy more time.

And when Muslims have killed enough of each other, as the U.S. set Central Americans to doing in the 1980s, the resultant demoralised, disorganised, depopulated regions will be ready for tractable rulers.

Hitler could not have planned it better. Adolf did his genocide the old-fashioned way -- having his own army do it. The Republican way is to outsource -- have other people do the killing of their neighbours for you!

American Observer,

Wish you good luck in your dream.

what i find most distressing is that the american people themselves have turned their backs on the innocent people of the middle east and central asia. every time that an american citizen fills up their gas tank, why does the face of an innocently slain child never appear to at least touch our souls and hearts? why, because american has become a hedonistic, and nihilistic society without a soul much as the romans were. our leadership is a direct reflection of the american people themselves and it trulysaddens me to think that we have become the most externally and internally violent modernized society on the face of the planet. when i read that we are now pplanning to send "newly improved" technological items such as "reaper drones" to iraq and probably to many places that the american public willnever be told about, it mekes me believe that what is about to happen to us over the next half century is truly what we deserve. the level of violence which will be focused upon all americans as a result of our attempt to dominate the globe financially and militarily will be beyond the expectations and comprehension of most americans. for those wishing to travel our wonderful planet i would suggest budgeting enough money into your travel plans for personalized security. it may become a priority compliments of the neo-fascists whom have seized control of our govt. at the very least all of us must make it a priority to see to it that the type of individuals presently occupying the white house can never again come to power; unless we have chosen to turn our backs on democracy as well as humanity. remember, military service at this point in time is VOLUNTARY. personal participation is not required. what will your children choose to do, and what type of individuals will they be when they grow up; if they get the chance?

JRLR:

see the graph showing total dewbt in USA:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1205

The file is long with lots of graphs -- mostly discusses housing crisis, but other info there, too

Anonymous says:

'The mightiest military in the world fails to achieve its strategic goals and is, in the end, politically defeated by an economically and technologically inferior adversary."

And what goals have we failed to achieve?

* Have we failed to keep Iraq from invading Kuwait? No, we did that -- Iraq will never endanger Kuwait again.

* Have we failed to keep Iraq from threatening our other allies in the Persian Gulf? No, we have succeeded in that -- Saddam, as you know, printed up thousands of license plates which showed the northern end of Saudi Arabia as being part of Iraq; but no Iraqi ruler will ever dare to lust after Saudi Arabia again.

* Have we failed to overthrow Saddam? No, we did that too.

* Have we failed to kill Saddam, and Uday, and Qusay, and Mustapha, so dead that they will never even dream of coming back to power? No, we have done that -- Saddam's heirs died in a hail of American bullets, and Saddam died like a dog at the end of a very long rope.

* Have we failed to overthrow the Baath Party? No, we did that just fine, the Baath will never rule Iraq or any part of Iraq again.

* Have we failed to keep the rulers of Iraq from creating vast clouds of poison gas and killing their own people and threatening their neigbors with them? No, everyone knows how Saddam used poison gas to exterminate entire Kurdish towns, and I am convinced that Saddam would have recreated his poison gas if the UN had lifted sanctions; but now no one in Iraq will dare to try that again.

* Have we failed to keep the Sunni from inflicting their Sunni colonialism over the Shia and the Kurds? No, that has succeeded very well -- the Sunni will never rule Kurdistan or Southern Iraq again.

We have clearly succeeded in a long list of strategic goals.

Have we failed to persuade the Sunni, Shia, and Kurds to live together in freedom and peace? Yes, we have -- but that is due as much to the stupidity and cruelty of Arab culture as it is to our mistakes. Yes, we wanted more from the Iraq war; but considering the long list of goals we have achieved, I think the orthodox Leftist view that we have simply 'failed' is very far short of the mark. Even if Iraq does break up into three separate republics -- as seems likely -- Iraq will never be the danger to ourselves and our friends that it was during the reign of Saddam.

American Observer,
Weather the anecdote war truth or not, it was to the point of the Vietnam war, or now the Iraq war.

American politicians relying on a class of speech-writers and policy makers unwittingly make a stupid show of themselves.

"Americans have probably not yet fully woken up to the appalling fact that, after a long period in which the first motto of their military was "no more Vietnams", they face another Vietnam. There are many important differences, of course, but the basic result is similar. The mightiest military in the world fails to achieve its strategic goals and is, in the end, politically defeated by an economically and technologically inferior adversary."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2129477,00.html

Well written Ms. Andoni. The bite of your sarcasim tells it all. The invasion and occupation of Iraq by the U.S. under our new Ceaser has been an unmitigated disaster for the Iraqi people. Hundreds of thousands killed or wounded; massive destruction of an already diminished civilian infrastructure; millions fleeing their homes; the economy in shambles. Former Prime Minister Alawi wrote that Iraq today is worse off than it was under the Baathist regime. He writes that corruption and incompetence are rampant. Drinking water and electricity are rare commodities. Basic security (not from terrorists) but roving criminal gangs is gone. Bush and his arrogant pro-Israeli handlers will leave the US with a strategic disaster which for generations it will be paying in blowback scenarios that will make 911 look insignificant. All this for what? Can anyone really tell me why so many have died and so much has been spent to destroy an entire country? How in Heaven's name does this advance US interests?

By researching and documenting Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA's background in the CIA and the Salvadoran oligarchy, the Truth About Kos blog is providing progressives with the tools to fight back against Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA (MAMZ).

Those who don't know about MAMZ's CIA history and his fabulously wealthy right-wing oligarchy family in El Salvador should definitely read this series of reports, based on Salvadoran and US Government documents, Salvadoran corporate websites and Markos' own words. It's The Truth About Kos blog.

Read about his family members' participation in a group (ANEP) connected to Salvadoran death squads, their offices in Odessa, Texas of all places (Bush was born there), their pollution of grey whale spawning grounds off the coast of Baja Mexico, and their pollution of the Jaltepeque Estuary, where they maintain a fabulously posh five-star hotel, private club and condominium conglomerate. Why didn't MAMZ tell us about any of this before?

And why did MAMZ spend six months training with the CIA in 2001?

Lamis

You are very cute.

JRLR:

Found one pair of articles
please see: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/naked-hegemon.html
Gl

JRLR:

Found one pair of articles
please see: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/others/naked-hegemon.html
Gl

Shanks said:

"A crafty con man would create a problem and then get appointed himself to solve the problem."

American Observer replies:

You are giving Bush, and even Cheney, far too much credit. Neither of them caused the Queda to attack New York, and neither of them created the Taliban. As for Iraq, both of them really did think they could declare "Mission Accomplished" safely less than a year after the fall of Saddam. Bush and Cheney are completely willing to exploit the problem -- of course they are -- but instead of having a problem they can exploit, they have a crisis that will drive the Republicans completely out of power in 2008. Nothing about that shows cunning or foresight or any ability to think, even in the lowest ways.

Shanks said:

"This war is not against a defined enemy. It is war against an idea. How can you fight an idea with bullets? The more they kill, more people with the idea comeup like mushrooms."\

American Observer replies:

We have already fought and won a very similar war, Shanks -- against Communism. Political Islam will continue to be a nuisance for a long time, but Political Islam cannot deliver prosperity, or peace, or dignity, or an end to corruption; and in time the Arabs will give up on the concept of Political Islam just as the Arabs have abandoned Marxism. It will take more than a day and it may take more than a decade, but eventually the Arabs will abandon the path of Khomeini and Osama just as they have abandoned the path of Nassar and Saddam. In the meantime, bullets will keep Political Islam from causing too much damage, just as bullets stopped and slowed the spread of Communism.

Finally, Anonymous, your story about the Senator is really funny -- but it is also not true. Yes, like many fables, it represents a psychological truth, but if you look in the history books you will not find a name for the Senator or a date for the speech.

JRLR:

Sorry do not remember the sources, on economic issues re USA vs/world usually very good at Asia times attimes.com

alsop usually check data from commerce dept, and postings by Fed. reserve

If I cam accrooss the right site, will post it to you an WP -- you always here

GL

Thanks for your note, Anonymous.

I must confess I had not read "How to Win in Iraq", by William S. Lind.

Now that I have, I find Lind's proposal even more remarkable than his anecdote. His strategy is a brilliant mix of realpolitik, of Machiavelism, of refined flexibility and of good humour that I have not often perceived in a document made public, such as this one.

Come to think of it, is it not simply that too many of us take themselves much too seriously, after all?...

Could Lind's strategy work? It very well might... I wish Lind were wrong when he concludes: "There is no chance the Bush administration, locked in a Totentanz with its dreams of world empire, will adopt this strategy." For Lind is right: if it adopted it, "yawningly dull debates might get a lot more interesting", including here, on PG.

Should you know of any other such inspiring document, please post the link to it. I am most interested in what people of that stature and calibre have to say.

Thanks again, Anonymous, for the conversation.

No good option is the conclusion of the best brains of think tanks in America.

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/iraq/iraq071607_policy.rm

JRLR,

The author of that anecdote was William S. Lind, director of the Center for Cultural Conservatism at the Free Congress Foundation in Washington, D.C.

I forgot to post his name. But the link to the article was posted.

The war is Vietnam was a distant past to most Vietnamese today. When all is over, the Vietnamese usually asked themselves also, what the fxck was all that about?

People generally live their lives without the need of a omnipotent God in mind, but war and invasion are the best tool of manifesting that part of the human mind. When a nation is invaded, the people will muster all their glorious past survival skills that help them to survive to fight the invader. That's why the Korean model or Germany model for occupation doesn't seem to me workable in Iraq.

Lamis Andoni

You are right, from the perspective of Israel and the Neocons, Iraq has not yet been destroyed completely, there is still work to be done. On a macro level other parts of the Middle East and the Islamic world have to be equally unhinged.

Unfortunately thanks to all this even USA is getting unhinged. Some years back we had a budget surplus. There was a "fear" that all USA Government bonds would be paid off. Today the surplus is gone, the dollars is at its record lows. Synthetic drugs, domestically made, is all over (being pushed by former Israeli army). We are a colony occupied by Israel. It is time Patriotic American Citizens made an effort to make USA free of Israel and the Neocons. Let there be democracy and true trade in USA.

Thank you for speaking the truth. May your words reach people in the main streets of USA.

"Sectarianism is confined to a conflict between Shias and Sunnis..."

Behold, and justice decended upon the earth...

The Koran, the Mein Kampf of our era and many past, celebrates the darkest corners of the human spirit. Those impulses which the great religions, spawned of the rut of 6,000 years of civilization, do their utmost to surpress, Islam extolls. To the Catholic, wine is transmogrified into Christ's blood; to the moslem, the blood of the beheaded infidel celebrates the essence of Allah.

Thge brilliance of Cheney/Bush is that it has ignited a fire in the tinderbox of islamobarbarism. The moslems may now with time canabalize themselves. In the meantime, it remains entirely consistent with the Judeo christian tradition to aid and abet islamist martyrdom.

The extripation of the moslem threat remains the standard by which all western politicians will be judged by the future generations. The time is at hand.

Ladies (?), gentlemen, I did appreciate your posts.

SALAMON, July 20, 2007 7:31 PM.

Would you have time, Salamon, to give us your sources? I should very much like to have them for future reference and be able to pass them along, upon request. -- Thanks.

SHANKS, July 20, 2007 11:14 PM.

You wrote: "This war is not against a defined enemy. IT IS A WAR AGAINST AN IDEA. How can you fight an idea with bullets? The more they kill, more people with the idea comeup like mushrooms." (my emphasis)

Personally, I am fascinated, Shanks, by the fact that so few people can see that it is ideas that lead them and this world. July 14, Bashir Goth was stating in PG that "Men Die for Other Men, Not for God." I insisted and still insist: men die for God, i.e. for what they consider of the highest value, most often of higher value than even their own life. That is God. That is the God they may die for. God being "omnipotent"... God cannot be bombed into oblivion.

Should you like to elaborate on your IDEA, I shall be the first to read what you write with interest. Thanks.

ANONYMOUS, July 21, 2007 6:27 AM.

Thanks for that amusing anecdote, Anonymous. I have lived and worked in that kind of environment... Hope you will give me permission to reproduce what follows like the twelve disciples spread the Gospel...: "At the bottom of the seventh page, he proclaimed, “I will now lay out my plan for winning the Vietnam War.” Page eight began with the words, “Now you’re on your own, you S.O.B. I quit.”"

LET'S NOT FOOL OURSELVES AND TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE REAL CAUSE OF ALL THIS HAVOC IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IN THE WHOLE WORLD.IT'S THE CREATION OF THE ILLEGAL STATE OF ISRAEL ON THE RUINS OF PALESTINE.THIS IS THE STEM CELL THAT HAS BEEN BREEDING ALL CHAOS AND TERROR WORLDWIDE.UNLESS THIS ISSUE IS HANDLED ADEQUATELY AND ALL PALESTINIAN REFUGEES RETURN HOME,WE WILL BE FOOLING OURSELVES AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT INVISIBLE GHOSTS THAT WE CALL TERRORISTS.

Among the bits of lore of the United States Senate is a story that dates back to before I arrived there in 1973 as a staffer to Sen. Robert Taft Jr. of Ohio.

A senator—from New York, perhaps—known for depending wholly on his staff while treating it with contempt, told his assistant for foreign policy, “I want to give a major speech on the Vietnam War tomorrow morning. Stay here all night and write it.” With that, the senator headed out for a Capitol Hill reception rich with giant shrimp and large checks.

The staffer did as he was bidden, despite the fact that it was his anniversary, and his wife had made grand plans. The next morning, the senator found the text of the speech in his inbox. Snatching it eagerly, he proceeded directly to the floor of the Senate. His voice booming, he laid out a brilliant and incisive analysis of the war. At the bottom of the seventh page, he proclaimed, “I will now lay out my plan for winning the Vietnam War.” Page eight began with the words, “Now you’re on your own, you S.O.B. I quit.”

http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_07_16/article1.html

A crafty con man would create a problem and then get appointed himself to solve the problem. However he would keep the problem expand in all directions so that his job and his earning can grow continuously and in leaps and bounds.

Cheney and Bush are doing this. They are playing the biggest con-game.

Who benefited from the so called war on terror.

a. American companies run by the politicians or with links to the ruling class.
b. International , mostly American, Oil companies.
c. Arms manufacturers.
d. Close friends of the US administration: Israel, Pakistan.

Can the war of terror end...
Not possible..
This war is not against a defined enemy. It is war against an idea. How can you fight an idea with bullets? The more they kill, more people with the idea comeup like mushrooms.

Iraq under Saddam was not an al-Qaida base. Now they have a base.

Afghanistan is getting back to being Talibanised and in the process North West Pakistan is also getting to become Talibanised.

The longer US and their friends sit in Iraq, the more there is going to be carnage. When they get out, at any point of time there is going to be more killing.

Bush is being arrogant and idiotic when he says US should stay in Iraq to prevent terror attacks in USA. Prevention of terror attacks in USA requires better national security in USA - not going and killing civilians in Iraq.

While they stay in Iraq , US is getting weakened , losing the capability of its military forces, all their hardware is run down and armaments are stretched to breaking point..And if a crisis occurs within USA, they do not have neither manpower nor hardware to protect the nation; and if they have to rebuild they need money - which they have to borrow..for US has spent all its surpluses and more down the bottomless pit it created in Iraq.

We Kill You said:

"...they continue to reject the hydrocarbons law written by Cheney and thwart the Bush dream of a puppet regime."

American Observer replies:

Actually, they continue to reject any government which gives a fair and proportionate role to the Shia and the Kurds, and they continue to thwart the dreams of millions of ordinary Iraqis for peaceful and prosperous lives. Truly, the insurgents are the KKK of the Middle East.

Five percent of anti coalition forces enter Iraq from other countries. Ninety five percent are citizens of Iraq. Iraqi dead number somehwere between one hundred thousand and half a million.

But it seems you are correct because, given all the deaths and great displacement of the population of Iraq, they continue to reject the hydrocarbons law written by Cheney and thwart the Bush dream of a puppet regime.

Miss Adoni is right, the cup is still half full. Unfortunately the author made a mistake, it is not Iraq which Mr. Bush and his boss, Mr Cheny are trying to destroy, it is the USA in their sight:

1.,, Since the above named idiots took over the government of USA, a surplus became a deficit of ungodly proportions, held by the USA's dearest friends, such as China, OLD EUROPE, OPEC, and Russia - with some contribution by Japan.

2., in 1980 the USA was the world's foremeost creditor, in 2007 the USA is the world's leading debtor by a very large margin.

3., The USA was the primary industrial power in 1980, now it depends on China to supply the goods due to offshoring to satisfy the greed of Bush's friends.

4., in 2000 there were 8 nuclear armed nations, in 2007 due to "EXCELLENT RECORD OF FOREIGN POLICY by the BUSH CADRE" there are 9, with Dear Leader of North Korea joining the elite club.

5., Notwithstanding 20 -30 years of political yapping by various Presidents, the USA's reliance on foreign based hydrocarbon has greatly increased during Bush' leadership as did the price.

6., the Value of USA $ has dropped by 30% due to the EXCELLENT ECONOMIC LEADERSHIP OF BUSH and CO.

Rejoice USA, 14% of your corporate stock is held outside, 35 % of your corporate debt held outside, and with T bills added in you owe the world more than $10 trillion. A few more years of such foolish leadership and the AMERICAN CENTURY will reach at the bottom of the barrel.

Please do support Bush or his warmongering clones presntly trying to win the President's seat in 2009 Jan 20th - the prize is falling standard of living.

American Observer,

Is it not time for each and everyone of those who have put us all in that mess to be the ones who tell us how they are now going to get us out of it?

What do THEY say?

To be quite candid, I shall say that I find it amazing they be the ones who have the cheek to constantly dare ask people who were against that excursion from its very inception, what is the answer to the question: "What do we do now?" Were they not listening, earlier on, to what those who opposed that adventure had to say? Or were they just laughing and making fun at them?

I, for one, would very much like to hear what those who had such "good will" towards Iraq and the Iraqis as to support that invasion and occupation all along, now have to say, hundreds of thousands of victims and millions of refugees later.

Suffice to add that I happen to believe common binary "thinking" (we have no choice, EITHER we "stay the course" and "move forward", OR we "cut and run") is simply equivalent to non-thinking. It is precisely what has got us into that mess in the first place. These days, binary "thinking" is commonly used by those who want to stay the course, so as to intimidate into submission anybody who opposes the New Way Forward. That is why one needs to get away from what is in fact binary NON-thinking.

See, a person can not only move forward or backward. Anybody can also move sideways, diagonally, can jump, crouch, kneel, sit, lie down, etc. There are indeed innumerable ways to move.

The onus is therefore first on those know-it-alls who got us where we are, to come up with vision, imagination and creativity and tell us what they suggest the next MOVE be. We can subsequently let them know in detail what we think of it.

Is it too much to ask from them, or is it simply too late to do so and assume, rightly, that they can come up with a satisfactory answer?

Sam says:

"Unless the Palestinian issue is settled in a fair way to all concerned parties and unless all Palestinian refugees return home under UN resolutions, we will continue to fight ghosts for many years to come."

American Observer replies:

I think that is backward. When the Israelis left Lebanon, they were sure they had created peace with Lebanon. Instead, the Hezbollah declared victory and shot rockets over the border into Israel, and even kidnapped Israelis. By giving the Hezbollah a victory, the Israelis made the Hezbollah feel like heroes, and instead of declaring peace, the Hezbollah doubled and redoubled their hunger for war. Letting the Palestinians overwhelm Israel would only encourage more terrorism.

The root of the struggle in the Middle East is not Israel. As you should know by now, the Sunnis and the Shia have been killing each other since the seventh century. The root of the war in the Middle East is the confusion of the Arab people as they confront the modern age. Every day newspapers, television and the internet fill their eyes with violent imagery, while their politicians and mullahs fill their minds with violent philosophies. The Arabs know that some people are rich while the vast majority of the Arabs are poor. At the same time, the prophet Mohamed promised that Islam was the one true religion, and that Islam would spread across the world like a wave. Now, the Arabs know that Islam is not spreading across the world like a victorious army; instead, Islam is only one religion among many, and the Moslems are usually weaker and more ignorant and more poor than their non-Moslem neighbors -- as in India, or Malaysia, or Israel, or any place where Moslems live near non-Moslems. This fills the Moslems with frustration, and the Moslems have no other way to deal with frustration than through religion and war. That is the root of the violence in the Middle East.

It is so infantile to personalize a situation as large and serious as the war in Iraq. When a discussion starts at that level it invariably sinks rapidly.

As long as there is tons of money to be made in Iraq by Defense, Construction, and Services Contractors, which are criminal chronies of the Thing(Bush) misadministration, the Violence will continue.

War on terror is like war on ghosts that we can neither see nor feel around. How can anybody win a war against such an enemy who appears only when he decides to strike,who can be near you all the time without knowing it,who can be with you in the street,on the train,on the bus,on the flight,even near your house,school or garden.Let's be honest about it. This is not a conventional war that we used to know.Even with the most powerful neuclear weapons,we simply cannot win such a war.However,this doesn't mean that we have to give up or surrender to the enemy.We can simply eradicate all terrorists and terrorism by eliminating the major cause behind it.The illegal creation of Israel on the ruins of Palestine is the stem cell that has been breeding all chaos and trerror in the Middle East and in the whole world.Palestinians,being moslems or christians,were kicked out of their country to be replaced by jews from Europe,Ethiopia,Russia,Poland etc.
Unless the Palestinian issue is settled in a fair way to all concerned parties and unless all Palestinian refugees return home under UN resolutions, we will continue to fight ghosts for many years to come.

For the UK it's over.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/images/20070221.WWW000000318_le_quotidien_des_soldats_britanniques_en_irak.html

The 7.100 mobilized English soldiers could start to gradually leave the Iraqi quagmire in spring. The large one of the battalions should have even returned before the beginning of the year 2008.

JRLR says:

"To this day, "Ben Tre Logic" is a common saying for whenever a "logical" conclusion is to destroy something out of the perceived best interests of everyone involved."

American Observer replies:

You are right, that is a famous saying -- I think I must have heard someone 'It was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it' at least once a month for the last thirty years. I have never, however, heard anyone refer to it as 'Ben Tre Logic.' The phrase 'Ben Tre Logic' is completely new to me.

During the Vietnam War a lot of people said we should just leave Vietnam and let the Vietnamese fight it out among themselves. Now a lot of people say something similar; they say that if we just pull out of Irag, then the Shia and the Kurds will descend on Bhagdad and Anbar province and deal with the Sunni the way the Sunni dealt with the Shia and the Kurds during the reign of Saddam.

CT & JRLR -- what do you say? We have read what Lamis Andoni said above, and she has destroyed what little goodwill I have left for Iraq. I personally feel like I don't want even one more American to get hurt while keeping two gangs of vicious Arabs from killing each other. Should we pull out today and let the Sunni Iraqis get what they deserve -- in big doses?

As a reminder, for the record:

"One of the most famous quotes of the Vietnam War was a statement attributed to an anonymous American major by AP correspondent Peter Arnett. Writing about the provincial capital, Ben Tre, on February 7, 1968, Arnett said: "'it became necessary to destroy the town to save it,' a U.S. major says." To this day, "Ben Tre Logic" is a common saying for whenever a "logical" conclusion is to destroy something out of the perceived best interests of everyone involved."

(Bến Tre is a city in the Mekong delta area of southern Vietnam. It is the capital of Bến Tre Province.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Tre

Maybe that's the "Plan for Victory" we keep hearing about from the Bush Administration. Borrowing from our glorious victory in Viet Nam, we will save Iraq by destroying it. Now it all makes sense!

Iraq was set into turmoil the instant the Religiously oppressed Shias were allowed to Religiously oppress! The Sectarian violence is all that should be expected with a Country that allows fractious Religious Sects to play Politics!

Yes Iraq can still be saved. A Non-Sectarian Iraq, that treats each individual with respect for that individual's rights and freedoms-personal and religious, is something they all might be able to KEEP LIVING WITH!

After 4 YEARS of living in the Sectarian Nightmare al-Sadr started, you would think they would have realized this by now!

I just chalk it up as Brain Damage done by the Heat!-Sort of like our McCain and his idiotic and suicidal stance on the Invaders in a State that has been destroyed by them-A State I call Aridzona!

Nice, at least you aren't hiding behind any journalistic pretensions anymore. Keep on cheerleading for rampaging Islamists everywhere - the same people who actually are killing all the Iraqis and destroying humanity. I'm sure you'll be just as outspoken when you're stuffed into a burqa and stoned whenever you step out on the street without 6 men from your own family.

So, then, Ms. Andoni -- what should be done?
As a professional journalist and as a Middle Easterner, you might have something more illuminating to add. Your despair is shared by many (including myself). Yet, something must be done, and intelligent discussion is what's needed.

Sometimes its hard to figure out who wants to destroy humanity more isn't it?

Lamis says,

"Poor Bush. He is worried that his successor will not finish the grand mission of destroying humanity..."

Allah Save The Arabs replies,

Lamis, does Mossad pay you a salary? If not, you should be able to walk into any Israeli embassy and demand money. Your columns consistently do more to discredit the voice of the Arabs and destroy Arab credibility in American than a thousand Mossad agents ever could.