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how should i comment this one?
well, i think this one hits the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QoA44c23A

I believe that most of chinese are kind to the whole world.We love peace and truth.We ought to say sorry to the victims,but we are trying to reform to be a new and more democratic country.Please trust us!

To Zhang Wei:

Unfortunately the grandson of Ghiasuddin Ghazi nee Ganga Dhar and son of Mobarak Ali named Nehru was the first PM of India thanks to the machinations of Archbishop of Canterbury's plant Edwina Mountbatten and British MI6 plant Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who against the patriotic wishes of the Union Cabinet with Sardar Patel at the chief voice recogonized the violent occupation of Tibet by the Chinese lumpen elements led by the genocidal freak called Mao tse Tung. Today the world including the British pays for the mistakes of planting Nehru and Gandhi into the freedom movement of India. But the fact is you Chinese have no business in Tibet not Inner Mongolia nor Sinkiang, Get out. The forthcoming solar and lunar eclipse in July/August this year within 15 days of each other will be the begining of the end for the present lumpen govt in China and it's hegemony, let me also tell you that the bloody internicine war you are getting into will finish off your economy. You are the bloody chaps who killed the royal family in Nepal and planted that Xian thug Prachanda. This is in no way condones the occupation of the Americas and Australias by the Caucasian tribes from Europe after whole scale genocide.

And to come to solution both West and Chinese have to turn away from barbaric food which is the root cause of animist behaviour for If you eat a dog you behave like one without imbibing the good qualities since the moment the dog is killed it's whole body becomes toxic and you barbarians cook animals live and call it a delicacy, aren't you ashamed of your barbaric ways?

What can I say? The author is crazier than the Chinese communists, who had abandon the communism after realizing that it would never not work no matter how hard they tried. Parallel with Nazi? Where is the Third World War plan? Where is the death camp? FLG alleged that there is a death camp in North China and some Westerns went there but found nothing. I cannot help but thinking all these only existed in Mr. Liu’s imagination. No wonder the dark stare from his eyes.

What I can say?

The author is crazier than the Chinese communists, who had abandon the communism after realizing that it would never not work.

Today, no leader in their right mind would want to start a world war, because every major power has nukes, and nobody wants a doomsday scenario.

Oh I see.

You won some arguments with your Chinese friends. How nice.

1. was your "fluent" Chinese language to facilitate your argument with Chinese people?

2. you were only clever in picking stupid people to start your argument, of course you won everytime.

3. you won because not many Chinese know, understand how USA was ugly in the past and now.

Compiling what others have said， especially doing so selectively, doesn't lead to a consistent piece of article, not to say consistent opinions.

Wow, Mr. Liu is sounding an incredible alarm that the Beijing Olympic Games is somehow a prelude to the pending World War III pitting China against the West. I think he should just lighten up. It was this kind of extreme ideological and unbalanced thinking that drove the US into the disastrous Iraq War. While Mr. Liu pray for another Churchill and Roosevelt, I pray for all peace loving ordinary people in China. Their natural sense of pride and accomplishment for hosting the Olympic Games suddenly now becomes "brainwashed" action. Maybe in a future war instigated by Mr. Liu's western savior, these people will justifiably be part of the collateral damage, the same way as the ordinary Iraqis are being treated now.

Rymnd says:

"Bravo.

For the first time, we have an American confess they learn history from TV and movies."

American Observer replies:

I have studied Chinese history in depth from a wide range of sources, and I spent three years living in the People's Republic of China. I have won many arguments against many Chinese, and I learned one thing about the Chinese over and over again; when a Chinese is not clever enough to answer the questions or resist the arguments of an intelligent person, the Chinese tries to hides his defeat by telling the winner that the winner said something that he did not say. If you have nothing to say except to put words into my mouth, Rymnd, it is clear that I have won.

Bravo.

For the first time, we have an American confess they learn history from TV and movies.

Don't you think your media can or is very capable of manipulating pictures at a very different angles to sensationalise any news they choose to portrait.

This is the very reason why young Chinese are so angry about distorted media coverage about China.

At least we are right on this one. American are brainwashed by media sub-consciously.

TV =/ TRUTH. Got it.

if you check his other article, there is only 1 comment. For his next article, we should ignore him. We give him too much credit!

Rymnd2008 says:

"You must have had too much history lessons from hollywood movies."

American Observer replies:

Our history lessons come from watching all of those tanks chasing people in the streets of Beijing. Our history lessons come from watching you shoot missiles at Taiwan. Our history lessons come from watching your thugs beat up Korean protesters in the streets of Korea. Our history lessons come from watching the people of Tibet fight for their freedom, over and over again, only to get pounded to the ground by people like you, Rymnd. Those lessons are clear enough for us to learn and remember, and none of your whining or special pleading is going to make us forget what your thugs have forced us to learn.

Now, what some western people can do is to resort to branding people

- brainwashed
- secret agent
- stupid
- not living in the land of freedom
- not allowed to demo against Chinese government
- living in the west, go back to China
- blah blah blah.....

Oh yes, I must admit I am a brainwashed secret agent hiding from a dark corner.

Yes I was recruited by PLA from a poor village called Ah Gou in a remote mountain region, therefore, I know nothing about the outside world.

Does this fit into your preconception of doing things within China, isn't it? You must have had too much history lessons from hollywood movies.

Thmak says:

"Only the nonknowledgeables use vulgar language and empty words,like "fools", as their argument and rationale. "

American Observer replies:

Actually, I merely observed that you are a fool because you are a fool, Thmak; but I offered for more information and reasoning than that simple observation. I would add in passing, however, that only fools call other people 'smarty.'

Thmak says:

"....the separatists and the warlords will prevail. Al-Qaeda and the Sadrists and the Kurds will carve Iraq.....". So you realized what a human calamity USA has created in Iraq under the banners of democracy, human right, freedom of this and that."

American Observer replies:

No, I never conceded any such thing, Thmak. The real human calamity in Iraq was Saddam's endless wars against his neighbors and his massacres of his own people; and as an American I am proud that America ended those massacres and gave the people of Iraq the ability to build a future of their own.

To American Observer: Only the nonknowledgeables use vulgar language and empty words,like "fools", as their argument and rationale. "......the separatists and the warlords will prevail. Al-Qaeda and the Sadrists and the Kurds will carve Iraq.....". So you realized what a human calamity USA has created in Iraq under the banners of democracy, human right, freedom of this and that. That is why UN recognized Iraq to keep it intact even though UN does not support USA's occupation of Iraq. Like everyone before him, Malaki is one of the many "last hope" Iraqi presidents. He is a symbol of USA occupation which the Iraqis don't want. If the Iraqis support him, they will have an annual national day celebrating their new found freedom and democracy. What happens? I hope you understand.

I smell China trolls.

You know, the state-employed Chinese internet surfers who do nothing all day but troll Western websites and blogs, trying to pose as Americans or other Westerners, quashing criticism of China and Chinese policies.

I am not fooled. You can usually tell who they are because they often drop the "the" from in front of their nouns. A classic indicator of a non-native English writer.

Chinese government trolls... clever but so obvious once you're attuned to them. Really, one's ISP address should be displayed on blogs, so readers know (literally) where you're posting from.

No offence. But the current batch of Chinese leaders do not have the charisma of Mao or Hitler, so they are unlikely to lead China down the war path.

Unless China is provoked to the breaking point.

Thmak says:

"To Amercian Observer: Sometime it is better to be a fool than smart. Smart people like Hitler and Bush had done enormous human calamities."

American Observer replies:

Clever criminals like Mao and Hitler have always found legions of fools like you to carry ou their crimes. Fools like you shattered Germany for Hitler, and fools like you ate your children and beat your mothers to death for Chairman Mao. China has been tormented for centuries by fools like you, Thmak, and I feel sorry for the country.

Thmak says:

"So far US was not challanged because of its superpower/dictatorial status."

American Observer replies:

Actually, the world supports the Malaki government because the world knows that the Malaki government is Iraq's last hope for a unitary government. If America leaves Iraq, then the separatists and the warlords will prevail. Al-Qaeda and the Sadrists and the Kurds will carve Iraq into three parts -- or more than three parts -- and the name of 'Iraq' will join 'Yugoslavia' and the 'Austro-Hungarian Empire' on the list of states which once existed and will never exist again.

pappy:

"Lets hope the authors prediction of the coming colaspe of China is accurate and is realized quickly. With loss of stability in China maybe the multinationals will bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S., and with the resulting decrease in Chinese demand for oil the world markets will cool."

Such sinophobic wishful thinking adds nothing to intelligent discussions here. We should fear, not hope, for China (highly improbable) collapse. When a nuclear-armed state collapses into chaos, the result could be global nuclear catastrophe.

To American Observer: At the beginning it seems the USA Iraq invasion was smooth sailing. a unitary government was setup. But the Iraqi situation turns worse for USA and USA is not able to pacify the whole country. Words to divide the Iraq into different regions were spread out to test the international reaction. The reaction is negative since Iraq was recognised by UN as a whole just a while ago. I hope you understand smarty.

To Amercian Observer: Sometime it is better to be a fool than smart. Smart people like Hitler and Bush had done enormous human calamities. Smart people use sleigh of hand language to cover up their vicious mission. A fool doesn't have that capability. It seems at the surface that US has no hand in setting up the Iraqi government. You have to know that the present government was not there before US invasion and it was there after US invasion. You are reminded that US Iraq invasion was not approved by UN and was executed by US unilaterally under false pretenses. So far US was not challanged because of its superpower/dictatorial status. Which country dares to challange US except Bin Laden who has no country? To cover up its mission US requested UN to overlook the set up of the Iraqi government. UN is obliged but not fully committed, but just enough to prevent further political deterioration( As you know UN plays no major role in Iraq). But US imposed the form of the government and staff personnel qualification. Any persons US doesn't like are excluded or removed by behind the scene political techniques. Those approved by US are allowed to be voted by the public. On the surface, it seems that the Iraqis are running the government but it is the US imposed political system that the iraqi have to live with, whether they like it or not. Every Iraqis knows that US is funding and protecting the Iraqi government that US helped to set up. They didn't setup the Iraqi government themselves. The Iraqi government does the calling of the USA. That government dares not tell USA to get out of Iraq or functions as independent as Saddam. It is totally dependent on USA. So it is a USA government. Is it clear, smarty? What happens to any anniverary celebration of freedom and democracy in Iraq? I hope you understand smarty.

Michael Ladeen is also the pointman for the anti-Iran flow of blindly negative spam. Just a miserable mind and a confused soul in the middle of Lobby Central in Washington. Not exactly a scholar of sense or logic as commonly accepted.

Lets hope the authors prediction of the coming colaspe of China is accurate and is realized quickly. With loss of stability in China maybe the multinationals will bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S., and with the resulting decrease in Chinese demand for oil the world markets will cool.

"The Ugly Chinam*n."...."Chinam*n"..."Chinam*n!!!"

This self hating punk, sh*ting on his own people, wannabe white Westerner, trash author, should be beaten everyday, until beating him becomes as recognizable to him as affectionate attention--as though it was his mother's love. He should then be shot for sedition!

Fracking self-hating traitor!!!

The India government recognizes Tibet to be part of China.

too lazy to type, I just copied Micheal Liu's words, His comments is just exactly what I wanted to tell this China-Basher Liu!

Dear Mr Liu:

I am shock and apalled by your awfully harsh and biased assessment of China today. What you affectionately called "brainwashed angry youths" are actually not the only ones who are willing to support the current Chinese government. I am a Chinese-American, born and raised here, and I hold both an undergraduate and Masters degrees from two very liberal schools in the United States. But I must say that I find China's government doing a credible job so far in developing China, and bringing it into the 21st Century. How would you explain someone like myself, or many of my friends who are also overseas Chinese, and have open access to free information, and still support the Beijing government? Maybe you dont want to know about us because we completely contradict your assertions about China? Might I suggest that you examine your own assumptions, and try to open your mind. I think you may be the one "brainwashed" into assuming that if China does not follow everything "western", then it is doomed to failure. Such simplistic view, and I am shocked that you actually have the face to post such a ridiculous thing on the web. Keep complaining, but it does not matter one bit. China wll progress, and I will be enjoying the Games come August. I have my ticket ready, and plenty of money to spend in China, and no one will be able to spoil our party.

Sincerely yours,

Michael Lou
Milton, Massachusetts

I have one doubt about all these China business.

Did not God Almighty told his followers without mincing words that he will not tolerate any dissidence or questioning of his authority? The very same words Saddam Hussein must have utterd when he took over the reins of Iraq. Then why blame the Chinese if they are following God's own words. How then it is wrong if they put 39 blasphemist ( I mean in the political sense) in the dungeon.( I wonder why they stopped it at 39. There could not have been any dearth and they could have made it into a nice 100 ) God has also specifically told that till the fourth generation there will not be any reprieve. In the case of Chinese they have never threatened to imprison the progenies. The 39 dissidents can even get a parole. In fact they are much better than in God's terrtory.
So in fact, even though God has forbidden, we should make shrines for all the big wigs in China and burn incense and all. We should show our appreciation rather than these unending bashing.

Ayurveda says the food determines the mind. Unless China and the West give up their barbaric ways of eating they cannot get civilized nor acheive a higher plane. Ahimsa and Satvic food is the root to better living. The West is surely realizing it but will China the rogue "civilazation" since 1949 ever? Let it vacate Tibet first.

Ayurveda says the food determines the mind. Unless China and the West give up their barbaric ways of eating they cannot get civilized nor acheive a higher plane. Ahimsa and Satvic food is the root to better living. The West is surely realizing it but will China the rogue "civilazation" since 1949 ever? Let it vacate Tibet first.

Democracy is only benefitial at the lower hierachies of a civilization. Maybe someday China will do that. But as a civilization, China must be guided by the Confucian sage-kinghood, like Ganghdi's India.

I have no fantasies for democracy, US's or Taiwan's. No way a culture like that of the US can endure.

It is the limitted spans of life that makes us short-visioned. Seeing a few years by our times, yes, democratic nations are immpressive, but seeing merely a few decades more, as broad enough to include two world wars, the other side of democractic culture is obvious.

China the civilization is very imperfect, but has outlived even Egypt, and will surely outlive the west. One needs open and broad mind to put today's China in the right perspective.

I am of the opinion that Communism come and go, China stays.

Thmak says:

"The present Iraqi government was set up by USA after USA invasion and occupation not approved by UN or the majority of the world countries, not even by the Iraqi people like Sadar."

American Observer replies:

Thmak, you are either a fool or a liar. I have gone to the Encyclopedia Britannica online to prove this. I quote:

"The Governing Council that had been installed by the U.S. in July 2003 was dissolved, and in its place an interim administration was appointed with the task of preparing for general elections to be held by Jan. 30, 2005. UN Special Adviser Lakhdar Brahimi (see Biographies) selected Ghazi al-Yawar, a Sunni sheikh trained as an engineer, to be president and head of the interim administration. On June 8 the UN Security Council approved his appointment. "

Unquote.

If I may continue, quote:

"The first general elections to be held in Iraq following the U.S. occupation took place as scheduled on Jan. 30, 2005....

The vote produced a transitional National Assembly in which the Shi'ite religious parties won 51% of the seats, the Kurdish alliance claimed 27%, and the secular Shi'ite list led by Prime Minister Ayad Allawi took 14%. Only 16 of the 275 Assembly members elected were Sunni. On April 6 the new parliament elected Jalal Talabani, leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, as the new Iraqi president. Ibrahim al-Jaafari (see Biographies), head of the Islamic Da'wah Party, was chosen as prime minister. Jaafari was sworn in, along with the cabinet he selected, on May 3.

The main task of the transitional parliament was to write a permanent constitution for Iraq by mid-August. To this end a constitutional committee of 55 members was selected from the parliament. Since the majority of its members were either Shi'ites or Kurds, the Sunni protested that their representation was insufficient. To rectify this problem, some Sunni were added, but they were able to join the committee only after its work was well under way. The committee had difficulty meeting its schedule, but a draft was finally approved by the National Assembly, and it was submitted to a popular referendum on October 15.

The draft constitution was narrowly approved."

Unquote.

As you can clearly see, the Iraqi government has been elected by the people of Iraq and the Iraqi government has been recognized by the UN.

Thmak says:

"UN's recognition of the present Iraqi government is to prevent USA's attempt to divide up that country into different regions so that USA can more effectively control only one oil rich region which is of utmost important to its self interest."

American Observer says:

That is nonsense. America has no plan to 'divide up that country into different regions.' If we had such a plan, we would have done it long since. Furthermore, you would have to be an absolute idiot to claim that recognizing the government of Iraq kept us from dividing the country. After all, America supervised the elections which brought the government of Iraq to power, and it makes no sense to suggest that America helped Iraq elect a unitary government if America wanted to divide the country. Thmak, you are a complete fool.

Maybe Taiwanese democracy will work for China, not American democracy.

A doom sayer who lost touch with reality in China!

Jason Li says:

"On any discussion between Chinese and Westerners, as shown in the comments to this article, there is an underlying conflict that is cultural. The Chinese values based on confucianism and Taoism teachings simply are not compatible with western democratic liberalism."

American Observer replies:

Japanese, Taiwanese, and South Korean culture are also based on Confucianism and Taoism, Jason, but Democracy is clearly doing well in all three countries. Telegraphs and railroads are also Western ideas, Jason, and that is why the Boxer rebels burned them; but now the Chinese like railroads and the telephone just fine. Chinese culture will adjust to Democracy the same way.

Westerners should celebrate the return of China. Eventually, Confucianism and Daoism will sinofy the Communists just like the Mongols and Manchus. China will unite all under heaven into Confucian harmony and Daoist naturalism, and will finally help the west to resolve its spiritual crisis.

So, westerners, help China! Bashing is only destructive, and besides, one can't blow the Pyramid away by spitting at it obssessively!

By the way, most westerners like to forget, and most Chinese already forget: Communism is a western culture, it just took over China. In this sense, the west has already won (if just the first battle). The west should feel save. Bashing China's coummunism is arrogant for it assumes the universality of the wsetern world view, and is stupid for Chinese. Westerners should not pretend the western world is the world. To me, it has been getting more and more clear that China, the civilization and its people are the true force that is bringing China back to world centrality. It is at the most fundamental level a competittion of culture. Having lived in the west for years, I am convinced of China's cultural supperiority in long run, in fact, the longer the better for China. A bad time for China and its people now, but there was always a bad time between two dynasties. The fact that China gets so much bashing from the collected western world that is at this momment far stronger than China only reveals the magnitude and the profoundity of the return of the Middle Kingdom to the surface of the world.

By the way, most westerners like to forget, and most Chinese already forget: Communism is a western culture, it just took over China. In this sense, the west has already won (if just the first battle). The west should feel save. Bashing China's coummunism is arrogant for it assumes the universality of the wsetern world view, and is stupid for Chinese. Westerners should not pretend the western world is the world. To me, it has been getting more and more clear that China, the civilization and its people are the true force that is bringing China back to world centrality. It is at the most fundamental level a competittion of culture. Having lived in the west for years, I am convinced of China's cultural supperiority in long run, in fact, the longer the better for China. A bad time for China and its people now, but there was always a bad time between two dynasties. The fact that China gets so much bashing from the collected western world that is at this momment far stronger than China only reveals the magnitude and the profoundity of the return of the Middle Kingdom to the surface of the world.

I think democracy means first mediocrety, then vulgarity, as has been evident with the protest culture in the last month or so. Democracy is a short term thing, like Capitalism. China is the true eternal culture, up and down, and very imperfect, but we will perfect ourselves, to the end of all history.

To American Observer: What UN says is better than only one country dictatorially, like USA, says. The present Iraqi government was set up by USA after USA invasion and occupation not approved by UN or the majority of the world countries, not even by the Iraqi people like Sadar. The present Iraq government have no support among its people and cannot exist if there is no US force support. Therefore for its own existance, it invites US to stay. The same in Afganistan whether they like it or not, USA is going in. Who dares to prevent the superpower USA under its unilateral foreign policy and its preemptive strike policy. USSR tried that before. I hope you understand. UN's recognition of the present Iraqi government is to prevent USA's attempt to divide up that country into different regions so that USA can more effectively control only one oil rich region which is of utmost important to its self interest.. I hope you understand

What does that prove? Do you think the UN can say what is right and what is true, and do you accept the opinion of the UN? If so, let me remind you of a few things. As you know, the United Nations has recognized the government of Iraq, and American forces are in Iraq at the invitation of its government. Therefore, America is not at war with Iraq. The United Nations has also recognized the government of Afghanistan, and Nato forces are in Afghanistan at the invitation of its government. Therefore, America is not at war with Afghanistan. Thus, if you accept the UN's opinion, America is not at war with any nation. Or, are you saying that you accept the UN's opinion when it suits you, and you reject the UN's opinion when

On any discussion between Chinese and Westerners, as shown in the comments to this article, there is an underlying conflict that is cultural. The Chinese values based on confucianism and Taoism teachings simply are not compatible with western democratic liberalism. This is not unlike the current conflict between Islam and Christianality. This conflict is going to be the key conflict between China and the West even if/after China becomes a democracy. However, at the end of the day, capitalism trounces all and that is why China and the West will not head into an eventual war.

And for Western readers, Mr. Liu is a victim of the CCP. Although I feel for his suffering, I would like to point out that his opinions are extremely biased given his point of view.

Thmak wrote: "He is also "ignorant " of the fact that, despite 50 more years of continuous military, political and economical suppression by the western anti-China axis of evil countires, China has made tremendous progress politically, economically, militarily and socially. Instead of falling from grace, China gains the respect of the majority of the countries in the world and the jealousy of the few anti-China axis of evil countires. "

Standard rhetoric from those who think their government does no wrong. Let me ask you this... the tremendous progress economically... how do you think that happened? It was mainly due to the "anti-China axis of evil countries" investing in China.

I guess they're not so evil after all but thanks for playing.

Mike says:

"Let me just say that, if the Chinese had followed the American example of dealing with native peoples, then this "tibet problem" would not exist today. Capish? Look at your own ugly face before you complain about someone else."

---the commies have done much better,Forget native people, how about butchering yr own, no need to leave yr own borders. It is estimated that 20-30 million chinese died under foolish Chinese economic and "re-education" plans.
Those are numbers only Stalin could envy.

American Observer, nice job fact checking.

Mike says:

"Right, blame all unscrupulous trade practices on the government..."

American Observer replies:

The local officials tolerated and encouraged slavery because they were bribed to do so, Mike. Leaders who have to face election do not tolerate this kind of thing, not even for bribes, because a free press will discover this and their own people will turn them out of office. This is one of the many reasons that democracies are better than dictatorships.

Mike says:

"Let me just say that, if the Chinese had followed the American example of dealing with native peoples, then this "tibet problem" would not exist today. Capish? Look at your own ugly face before you complain about someone else."

American Observer says:

Mike, you don't know much history so I don't know if you will recognize these names, but back in the nineteen-thirties Eleanor Roosevelt was the wife of the president of the United States, and Winston Churchill was still a high British official. And Eleannor Roosevelt was concerned about human rights everywhere, and she was opposed to colonialism everywhere. And at that time India was still a colony of the British Empire. So one day Eleanor Roosevelt met Winston Churchill, and she gave him a long list of bad things that were happening to the Indians. And, at the end, Winston Churchil had a question. Winston Churchill said "When madame refers to 'The Indians,' does madame refer to the BROWN Indians of Asia, who continue to prosper under benevolent British rule? Or, does madame refer to the RED Indians of America, who are -- as I understand it -- now almost extinct?"

Well, the 'red Indians of America' are very far from being extinct -- in fact, the last census counted almost three million Native Americans living in the United States; but you should get the basic point. Whenever America tries to put sanctions on some dictator or aggressor, the dictator or aggressor always points to the 'red Indians' and says that no nation can cut off the money supply to a dictator or aggressor if that nation has anything wrong in its history. And of course, I disagree. Even if your charges were all true and even if all of your charges were ten times worse than you claim, America would still have an obligation to cut off trade when that trade allows foreign governments to murder foreign people.

Capish?

Mike says:

"harry wu (sic) is an opportunist who made that bogus organ harvest video that is now the laughing stock of all who knows about China. He has no credibility. Can you find a more credible person to bring up? I personally would not have allowed to to go overseas to spread his malicious lies, but he does make a good negative example of what a traitor looks like...all for a quick buck, and a green card.

American Observer says:

Actually, I have never seen any intelligent observer question Harry Wu's testimony. Instead, the only people who disagree have been supporters of the Chinese empire, like you.

Mike says:

"Tibet is FREE because of CHINA!!!!!get it?"

American Observer says:

Mike, if you have something to say, your arguments will probably impress people more if you use fewer exclamation points; and also, you should take care to capitalize the first letter of proper nouns, and the first letters of sentences. Just a bit of friendly advice...

Mike says:

"Right, blame all unscrupulous trade practices on the government..."

American Observer replies:

The local officials tolerated and encouraged slavery because they were bribed to do so, Mike. Leaders who have to face election do not tolerate this kind of thing, not even for bribes, because a free press will discover this and their own people will turn them out of office. This is one of the many reasons that democracies are better than dictatorships.

Mike says:

"Let me just say that, if the Chinese had followed the American example of dealing with native peoples, then this "tibet problem" would not exist today. Capish? Look at your own ugly face before you complain about someone else."

American Observer says:

Mike, you don't know much history so I don't know if you will recognize these names, but back in the nineteen-thirties Eleanor Roosevelt was the wife of the president of the United States, and Winston Churchill was still a high British official. And Eleannor Roosevelt was concerned about human rights everywhere, and she was opposed to colonialism everywhere. And at that time India was still a colony of the British Empire. So one day Eleanor Roosevelt met Winston Churchill, and she gave him a long list of bad things that were happening to the Indians. And, at the end, Eleanor Roosevelt said "When madame refers to 'The Indians,' does madame refer to the brown Indians of Asia, who continue to prosper under benevolent British rule? Or, does madame refer to the red Indians of America, who are -- as I understand it -- now almost extinct?"

Well, the 'red Indians of America' are very far from being extinct -- in fact, the last census counted almost three million Native Americans living in the United States; but you should get the basic point. Whenever America tries to put sanctions on some dictator or aggressor, the dictator or aggressor always points to the 'red Indians' and says that no nation can cut off the money supply to a dictator or aggressor if that nation has anything wrong in its history. And of course, I disagree. Even if your charges were all true and even if all of your charges were ten times worse than you claim, America would still have an obligation to cut off trade when that trade allows foreign governments to murder foreign people.

Capish?

Mike says:

"harry wu (sic) is an opportunist who made that bogus organ harvest video that is now the laughing stock of all who knows about China. He has no credibility. Can you find a more credible person to bring up? I personally would not have allowed to to go overseas to spread his malicious lies, but he does make a good negative example of what a traitor looks like...all for a quick buck, and a green card.

American Observer says:

Actually, I have never seen any intelligent observer question Harry Wu's testimony. Instead, the only people who disagree have been supporters of the Chinese empire, like you.

Mike says:

Tibet is FREE because of CHINA!!!!!get it?

American Observer says:

Mike, if you have something to say, your arguments will probably impress people more if you use fewer exclamation points; and also, you should take care to capitalize the first letter of proper nouns, and the first letters of sentences. Just a bit of friendly advice...

Japanese invasion of Manchuria occurred in 1931 and a full war with China broke out in 1937. So American government, according to AMERICAN OBSERVER, waited till 1941 to threat oil embargo against Japan. A very long delayed action by WEST is easily ignored by AMERICAN OBSERVER.

I understand that it is difficult for a person who bears grudges against past Beijing administrations to agree with anything achieved by the current Beijing administration. For your own peace, the best way is to visit China and find out the facts on your own instead relying on someone like Harry Wu.

"Thus Westerners in China are never enslaved to work in brick factories the way so many Chinese children have been forced"...

Right, blame all unscrupulous trade practices on the government...boy do you have a lot to lear.

"Westerners living in China are never tied to trees and violated with truncheons by the PLA the way Tibetan nuns have been violated"...

Let me just say that, if the Chinese had followed the American example of dealing with native peoples, then this "tibet problem" would not exist today. Capish? Look at your own ugly face before you complain about someone else. By the way, did you get that from the "free tibet" terrorist group (TIbetan Youth Congress)? They will be classified as a terrorist group very soon, and you will be a terrorist sympathizer.

"Westerners living in China are never thrown in prison and forced to work naked in tanneries the way Harry Wu was forced"...

harry wu is an opportunist who made that bogus organ harvest video that is now the laughing stock of all who knows about China. He has no credibility. Can you find a more credible person to bring up? I personally would not have allowed to to go overseas to spread his malicious lies, but he does make a good negative example of what a traitor looks like...all for a quick buck, and a green card.

Tibet is FREE because of CHINA!!!!!get it?

Peace says:

"Please don't be so ridiculously ignorant not to know that Tibet,East Turkestan,Inner Mongolia are recognised by UN and its member countries as part of China. By that China at present, unlike USA, has no military conflict with any countries. "

American Observer replies:

What does that prove? Do you think the UN can say what is right and what is true, and do you accept the opinion of the UN? If so, let me remind you of a few things. As you know, the United Nations has recognized the government of Iraq, and American forces are in Iraq at the invitation of its government. Therefore, America is not at war with Iraq. The United Nations has also recognized the government of Afghanistan, and Nato forces are in Afghanistan at the invitation of its government. Therefore, America is not at war with Afghanistan. Thus, if you accept the UN's opinion, America is not at war with any nation. Or, are you saying that you accept the UN's opinion when it suits you, and you reject the UN's opinion when it does not?

To American Obseerver: The Bush's Presidency was decided not by the majority of the popular vote (which is less than the 33% for Hitler. 33% can be considered the overwhelming majority vote in a democratic system. In USA, the Presidency is usually decided by a bit over 25 % of eligible voters), but by the Electoral College. Inspite of that, the Bush's Republican control of the Presidency, the Senate and the Congress gave the Bush administration the authoritarian power to take on a war path just like Hitler in sizing the German government administration to take on a war path. And the Bush administrtion says USA can only be 'strong' (only superpower on earth) with dictatorship (premptive strike, unilateral foreign policy); and just as the Nazis used violence against their opponents in Germany, Bush administration use violence ("you are witn me or against me", in depth electronic surveillance, terrorist act) to keep power. Finally, the Nazis attacked all of their neighbors, just as USA has a long history of violence against other nations, such as Korea, Cuba, Guatamana, Vietnam, China, etc. In fact USA is the only country in recent history in the world that waged more foreign wars than any country in the world and the only country that is presently engagerd in a foreign war. Please don't be so ridiculously ignorant not to know that Tibet,East Turkestan,Inner Mongolia are recognised by UN and its member countries as part of China. By that China at present, unlike USA, has no military conflict with any countries. I hope you understand.

"In 1927 the KMT ..."

Dude, whatever you say about KMT, You can't refute the fact that KMT became essentially a dictatorship before they fled to Taiwan and the dictatorship continued until 1996, not to mention the 228 incident.

KMT was weak and got weaker at the end of WW2. They were taken over by CCP, just like any other dynastic change in the Chinese history. If there's a force that's stronger than CCP, CCP will be toppled over, again, just another dynastic change. At present day, I am just not seeing it happening soon, regardless how the west is trying to consolidate the anti-China forces of Tibet Independence, Taiwan Independence, Xinjiang Independence, Fa Lun Gong, and whatever.

'Peace' says:

"Why not using oil embargo against Japan to limit its military expansion in China?"

American Observer says:

Actually, America did exactly that. When Japan invaded Vietnam, FDR threatened to put an embargo on Japan if Japan did not withdraw from Vietnam and China both. Without oil the Japanese Empire would have shut down, so the Japanese had only two choices -- withdraw from Vietnam and China, or find an alternative source of oil. The Japanese found an alternative source of oil by invading Indonesia, and the Japanese kept America from stopping their invasion of Indonesia by attacking Pearl Harbor.

As the Encyclopedia Britannica puts says, and I quote:

"Yet it was in the Pacific rather than the Atlantic that war came to the United States. When Japan joined the Axis powers of Germany and Italy, Roosevelt began to restrict exports to Japan of supplies essential to making war. Throughout 1941, Japan negotiated with the United States, seeking restoration of trade in those supplies, particularly petroleum products."

Peace says:

"But it's still shameless for any Westerner to claim that China was saved from Japan by the West."

That is not shameless, that is just the simple truth. If you want to hear something shameless, please listen to the CCP claim that the Chinese drove out the Japanese. In fact, the Japanese won every battle against the Chinese until the atomic bomb hit Hiroshima, and the Japanese would have stayed in China for decades or generations more if America had not defeated Japan. Indeed, the Japanese might have remained for another one hundred and eighty seven years, just like the Mongols did; and apologists for Chinese culture would now be describing the Japanese as another 'Chinese Dynasty' on a long list which goes back thousands of years.

Mic says:

"I have lived china for almost three years now and am quite happy with my stay!"

American Observer replies:

I am glad that you are happy, Mic. Nonetheless, I also spent three years living in China, and I never forgot that foreigners living in China enjoy a special rank which is very different from that ordinary Chinese. Thus Westerners in China are never enslaved to work in brick factories the way so many Chinese children have been forced; Westerners living in China are never tied to trees and violated with truncheons by the PLA the way Tibetan nuns have been violated; and Westerners living in China are never thrown in prison and forced to work naked in tanneries the way Harry Wu was forced. As long as you judge China by what you see within the bubble that the government has placed you, you will remain happy as clam, but you are still looking at a Potemkin village and telling people that you have seen reality.

Mic says:

"The Chinese citizens are aware of problems in the own land just as any one else is aware of problems on their own soil."

American Observer replies:

No, they are not aware, and the Chinese government keeps them from being aware by censoring the news. That is why international press organizations keep getting in trouble in China.

FDR did send TOKEN assistance to China in the form of volunteer "Flying Tigers" before Perl Harbor. But American government did NOT block Japan from any commercial trades of militarily important materials such as oil, iron, nickel, etc. until Perl Harbor was attacked. That is the fact! What a couple units of pre-World II "Flying Tigers" could have done against the mighty Japanese Army? Why not using oil embargo against Japan to limit its military expansion in China?

I fully understand that FDR was sworn in to serve the best interests of America not China. But it's still shameless for any Westerner to claim that China was saved from Japan by the West. By tying down millions of best Japanese armies, China should claim the credit of saving at least thousands if not millions potential Western casualty in World II. So far no Westerner acknowledge that!

To compare this government with Nazis seems quite extreme, don't you think?! As a Canadian i have witnessed countless scandals within my own govt, i can only image how hard it must be to run and contain a govt and country of this size! I have lived china for almost three years now and am quite happy with my stay! The Chinese citizens are aware of problems in the own land just as any one else is aware of problems on their own soil. But just like anyone else they believe "home is HOME" and have all the beauty and love that goes with that belief.

Thmak says:

"Hitler and his party were overwhelmingly voted into office by a democratic Germany. "

American Observer replies:

Hitler came to power with only thirty-three percent of the vote; but once he was in power he used his conspirators to set fire to the Reichstag and do other things which allowed him to expand his dicatorship. As the Encyclopedia Britannica says, and I quote:

"owever, it was the effects of the Great Depression in Germany that brought the Nazi Party to its first real nationwide importance. The rapid rise in unemployment in 1929–30 provided millions of jobless and dissatisfied voters whom the Nazi Party exploited to its advantage. From 1929 to 1932 the party vastly increased its membership and voting strength; its vote in elections to the Reichstag (the German Parliament) increased from 800,000 votes in 1928 to about 14,000,000 votes in July 1932, and it thus emerged as the largest voting bloc in the Reichstag, with 230 members (38 percent of the total vote). By then big-business circles had begun to finance the Nazi electoral campaigns, and swelling bands of SA toughs increasingly dominated the street fighting with the communists that accompanied such campaigns.

When unemployment began to drop in Germany in late 1932, the Nazi Party's vote also dropped, to about 12,000,000 (33 percent of the vote) in the November 1932 elections. Nevertheless, Hitler's shrewd maneuvering behind the scenes prompted the president of the German republic, Paul von Hindenburg, to name him chancellor on Jan. 30, 1933. "

Unquote.

In short, Thmak, the Nazis never won a majority in any national election; instead, the Nazis used the same arguments that you make. You and the Nazis both say that democracies are weak, and you and the Nazis both say that your nations can only be 'strong' with dictatorship; and just as the Nazis used violence against their opponents in Germany, the Communists use violence to keep power over China, with the support of people like you. Finally, the Nazis attacked all of their neighbors, just as the Chinese Communist Party has a long history of violence against other nations, such as Korea, Tibet, Vietnam, East Turkestan, and Inner Mongolia, and China remains at war in Tibet and East Turkestan, with full support from people like you. Thus, you and Hitler truly are brothers.

To Fate: Thanks for reading my post. Hitler and his party were overwhelmingly voted into office by a democratic Germany. Hitler and his party had total control of the German government and as a result became a totalitarian government. In other words, a democratic institution was changed into a totalitarian institution through a democratic process. About USA rise to world power after WWII, you can also say "Replace Bush's USA with Nazi Germany in the above and you have what many were saying in 1936 about Germany". The USA Republican party controlled the USA Presidency, Senate and Congress. It went on a war path, just like Hitler. If the Iraq war went well, war with Iran and North Korea will follow and finally with China, just like the WWII. So far, China has not embarked on a war path like USA and has not shown signs of planning any. Democracy doesn't guanrantee lasting properity either as evidenced by the frequent recessions happened in USA as recently as the present one. I hope you understand.

'Peace' says:

"American government didn’t help Chinese against Japanese invasion, which started in early 1930, until Perl Harbor was attacked by Japan in December, 1942."

American Observer says:

As usual, your words have no connection to reality. President Roosevelt sent American pilots and warcraft to China long before Pearl Harbor. If I may quote Wikipedia:

"The American Volunteer Groups were volunteer air units organized by the government of the USA in order to aid the Nationalist government of China against Japan in the Second Sino-Japanese War. The only unit to actually see combat was the Flying Tigers, the 1st AVG.

In an effort to aid the Nationalist government of China and to put pressure on Japan, President Franklin Roosevelt in 1941 authorized the creation of three clandestine aviation units to be equipped with American aircraft and staffed by aviators and technicians who would resign from the U.S. Army, Navy, and Marine Corps for service in China.

The 1st American Volunteer Group was organized, deployed and trained BEFORE the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, 7 December 1941. It became famous as the Flying Tigers under the command of Claire Lee Chennault."

Endquote

Truly, 'Peace', you live in a fantasy world.

'Peace' says:

"Each new Chinese Dynasty or new Administration must acquire its mandate through Chinese supports from within. The history has shown many times that any Chinese leader who heavily depends upon foreign supports never lasts."

American Observer says:

Really? Then how do you explain the fact that China was ruled for almost two hundred years by foreigners from Mongolia? How do you explain the fact that China was ruled for almost three hundred years by foreigners from Manchuria? The Chinese hated the Mongols, but the Mongols held power through raw violence three times longer than the Communists have so far.

Perhaps you are completely ignorant of China's ancient history, and you feel more 'comfortable' talking about more recent events. Tell me, then, how do you explain the fact that both Sun Yat-sen and Mao Zedong accepted enormous amounts of money and military aid from the Soviet Union? Supporters of the Chinese Communist Party like to claim that 'true' Chinese never accept aid from foreigners, but history shows that aid from the Soviet Union kept the CCP alive throughout the twenties and thirties.

I am not pro or anti China. But.... I fail to understand why the world (Financial institutions, stock markets, traders politicians etc.)have for years now been feeding the Dragon and now that it is HEALTHY & STRONG... everybody wants to pull its tail!! Like Pogo said "We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us" This to my logic of thinking, smells of disaster. with the downturn of world economy and famine in many countries staring us in the face, we would do a lot better to address the issues at hand with "detente"
The notion that boycotting the opening ceremony or the whole Olympics might be even be an idea, not to mention the absurd notion it might be a “Good Idea” has the following flaws. It has proved in the past that IT DOES NOT WORK! second, mixing POLITICS with anything is guaranteed to turn into a disaster because Politics by its nature is Foul - ask anybody who is not a politician or an honest politician. (I know I know) Sooo... why taint one of the most revered competitions in the world with it? It can only be to promote your own "CAUSE" which you have failed so dismally to do on your own, however noble it may be or seem.
For anyone willing to buy into the boycott agenda I say this: Be careful what you wish for you might just get it - which is GOOD! right? Me thinks NOT! - it will surely come to bite you in the derier! Remember, this is only one Olympics, one of many held every 2 years, which country will be next or does it ALL indeed end here? DO NOT PULL THE DRAGONS TAIL! I know I am probably going to have to come back to this forum and say: I told you so! What part of DO NOT did you not get?
Live long and prosper

Anonymous says:

KMT was given a chance to rule China all right from 1911-1949. What happened during that period?

American Observer replies:

Oh, wow, another dude who cannot read a history book. The KMT did not rule China in 1911 because the KMT did not exist in 1911. The KMT did not exist until the warlords drove Sun Yat-sen out of Beijing, and Sun Yat-sen went to Canton (GuangDong) and founded the Whampoa Military Academy in the nineteen twenties. In 1927 the KMT made their Great Northern Expedition to reach Beijing and unify the nation, but in the nineteen-thirties the Japanese invaded China and made that impossible. As you know, when the Japanese Prime Minister Tanaka visited China in the nineteen-seventies, Mao told him that the Chinese should feel grateful for the Japanese invasion, because without it the Communists 'would still be hiding in the mountains.'

Anonymous said:

"And you have to wonder why KMT was defeated by CCP in the first place."

American Observer replies:

The KMT was defeated by the Communists for the same reason that Hitler defeated the Weimar Republic and took power in Germany. The nation had been traumatized by an overwhelming military defeat, and it was ready to be led astray by an ideology of hatred and violence.

Anonymous said:

"Indian has been a democarcy since independence just about the same time CCP took over China. Compare them and tell the difference."

American Observer replies:

That is easy to do. The people of independent India have never eaten their own children by the millions or beaten their own mothers and fathers to death. In China, on the other hand, the Communist dictators engineered the Great Leap Forward, where forty-eight to fifty-two million people starved to death, and millions of the survivors stayed alive by eating their own family members, and the Communist dictatorship created the Cultural Revolution, where teenagers frequently showed their revolutionary spirit by beating their parents to death.

If any of this is news to you, you need to start reading some history books. Then you need to read some books about culture, and understand that East and South Asia are as different from each other as they are different from the Arab world or from Central America. India has been held back by the caste system, not by elections.

"If China had been ruled by the KMT, China would be twenty-five years ahead of where it is today, and if China been a democracy, China would be much further ahead still."

Yeah right. KMT was given a chance to rule China all right from 1911-1949. What happened during that period? Wars, wars and more wars and in the end they took all the valuables to Taiwan. The for the first 40 some years after 1949, there was no democracy, freedom in Taiwan. Sorry dude, KMT was too weak. And you have to wonder why KMT was defeated by CCP in the first place.

Indian has been a democarcy since independence just about the same time CCP took over China. Compare them and tell the difference.

The idea that Democracy makes a country more advanced or that it will fix all problems is just not true. The Chinese will work out its own system however works for them.

It’s interesting to see that my comment has elicited drastic different views from AMERICAN OBSERVER, e.g. China was saved from Japan by Western Armies. I respect his rights for voicing his opinions but we need to stick to facts. American government didn’t help Chinese against Japanese invasion, which started in early 1930, until Perl Harbor was attacked by Japan in December, 1942. So you can see what motivated Western help. I don’t know if he can read Chinese history. Each new Chinese Dynasty or new Administration must acquire its mandate through Chinese supports from within. The history has shown many times that any Chinese leader who heavily depends upon foreign supports never lasts.

As for understanding modern China, the best way is to take a visit and find out what Chinese people wants TODAY instead of dreaming up something they are not even interested for the time being. Democracy will prevail in China but only when Chinese people, not by a Western savior, determine it’s the time. As a Chinese American who grew up in Taiwan, the 3-week visit in China has drastically changed my past perception about CCP. Finally but not the least, CCP will have to continue its own evolution to become a less corrupt and more open society in order to maintain the supports of Chinese people. Otherwise Chinese people will rise up and make a drastic change again as done in the past. No Western help is needed.

Anonymous says:

"The present day China is vastly bette than it was in 1949. "

American Observer replies:

Excuse me -- how many Asian nations are not 'vastly better than they were in 1949?' Only North Korea is worse, and all of the other East Asian nations are vastly better, even Burma. The improvement has come, of course, because all of those Asian nations have been adopting ideas and technologies which arose in the West, not because those countries have been ruled by Communist dictators. If China had been ruled by the KMT, China would be twenty-five years ahead of where it is today, and if China been a democracy, China would be much further ahead still.

Szu Student says:

"I live among the urban educated elite Chinese and they are no different than the frothing at the mouths nationalists who are attacked people in Seoul.

American Observer says:

Well said, Szu Student. Every Chinese in the world should be ashamed of the antics of the Chinese in Seoul, just as every Chinese in the world should be ashamed of China's role in the Korean War.

Szu Student says:

"Here is another secret the world does not yet know about their former favorite new power: The Chinese are rabid vicious racists. They consider themselves white and openly hate and discriminate against people of color who have the misfortune to work or attend school in the mainland."

American Observer says:

Again, well said. The Chinese fear, hate, and despise Africans and other people they consider to be 'untermenschen.' The world should know this, and the Chinese should work on correcting their own attitudes rather than complaining about some imaginary sign on a park in Shanghai.

peace4all1 says:

"From his last statement, Mr. Kin-Ming Liu typifies a Western-worshiping Chinese who prays for a Western savior for China. If Mr. Liu is a true believer in what he states, he should try to risk him own life to be that one for the future of China. "

American Observer says:

Oh? You mean he should go to a Chinese prison like Wei Jingsheng? I will bet that you would like to see that, 'Peace'; but criminals like Li Peng should go to prison, and heroes like Kin-Ming Liu deserve to be safe.

peace4all1 says:

"Looking back at many thousands years of Chinese history, I doubt if Mr. Liu ever learnt from it, only Chinese people had made and will make better changes for China, not a Western savior from outside."

American Observer replies:

You are fantasizing. Westerners have saved the Chinese many times. For example, the 'Not-Bind Foot Society' was founded by a Western missionary, and hundreds of thousands of people were saved by Western missionaries and businessmen when the Japanese high command ordered the Japanese army to kill everyone in Nanjing, and neither the KMT or the Eight Route Army did anything to help the Chinese. And as you recall, China was saved from Japan by Western armies, after the KMT had been chased to Chunking and while the the Eight Route Army was hiding in Yannan and plotting to bring China down.

peace4all1 says:

"If Mr. Liu’s statement is true that Chinese Communists Party holds onto its power only by making lies and repression, China should still be ruled by Mongols or even further back by Chin, the 1st dynasty in China, for both were known for their brutalities and repressions against Chinese people. However both dynasties lasted the shortest time among twenty four dynasties in Chinese history."

American Observer says:

Again you are talking nonsense, 'Peace.' Your Communist friends admire the Chin Dynasty for conquering all of China and establishing the pattern for all Chinese dynasties to come; and any one who can read a history book can quickly discover that the Mongols ruled China for more than a hundred and eighty years, which is longer than the Sui Dynasty and far longer than any of the 'Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms.' I will concede that the Tang, Song, and Ming Dynasties ruled China longer than the Mongols did, but you can only make the Han Dynasty seem longer if you choose to forget that the Han were once overthrown, and the Han Dynasty is usually divided into the early and late Han Dynasties; and of course, the Ching Dynasty were Manchurians, and foreigners. Thus, your argument that the Mongols "lasted the shortest time among twenty four dynasties in Chinese history." is a simple stupid lie.

peace4all1 says:

"While there is still a long way to go in modernizing China, but I can bet that today’s Chinese Communists Party will definitely last longer than both of them because CCP has already made tremendous progress in improving Chinese living standards and even their political Human Rights too!"

American Observer says:

Do you really think that the Communist Party will outlast the Mongols by holding power for a hundred and eighty-eight years? Oh, I would be amused to hear what our other readers think.

Mornin' KC,

Re: some bad experiences with 1st generation SinoAmericans - most of my opinion comes from discussions with 6-7 friends with whom I've only had pleasant experiences (the # I recall has indeed grown since my last post). I toss in my negative experiences to show a disjunction between a career and a sense of mission... one that is somewhat less prevalent in other societies (if this makes me a racist then I am a racist). In any case, if I'm a racist, then so too are quite a few SinoAmericans in so far as they stereotype *themselves*.

By the way, none of the above justifies the rudeness people have shown towards our Olympic hosts. I agree with many here who think that the greater Chinese populace should have its day in the sun.

As to your prediction that China will eclipse America, it doesn't pan out to me. We have 300 million people to generate a huge economy, and we have closer economic/cultural ties to another 300 million east of the Atlantic than has China. As important, due to party dictates, China has a demographically aging population. All of those sons and daughters who have no siblings have twice/thrice/ four times the burden of caring for elders than do middle-aged Americans.

Re: my fundamental point on innovation, you state:

"Do you know that, by chance, that the Chinese people were one of the greatest innovators/creators in the world that brought the world such important inventions as the paper, compass and gun-powder? How presumptious you are to presume that the trend would not continue??"

What trend?? The examples you give are all 1,000 years old +/- ! For a 'trend' to be of any note at all, you should cite some examples that have occurred after 1850 at the very least. The 'trend' seems to have withered sometime before Columbus.

Can the 'trend' resurrect itself in an impressive manner? Certainly. I just don't see it catching up to the West in the next 50 years.

Liu,
It is your face makes me realize what the 'Ugly Chinaman' truly means - Chinese face & name, emmits the most poisonous words on his motherland. I do know lots of peaceloving west friends who hope a better China chose to come and see China with their own eyes, they gave Chinese people practical advices on all aspects with grounded reasons, but you wish the worst, posted something your west masters really hope to see. I wonder how much of China you do know before writing your lofty comments on her.

Anonymous Says:

"China is a DEVELOPING country, Germany was a world power, and in decline..."

American Observer replies:

That statement is historical nonsense. Germany was nothing more than a geographical expression until 1879, when Germany united; after that, Germany became a rising power, and the Germans were very frustrated to see that other European states like Britain and France and even Belgium and Holland had captured vast empires and left only 'crumbs' for Germany. After being smashed in the First World War, Germany rebuilt itself; and with a rising economy and rising population, the Germany of the 1930's was very much a rising power. If the Germans had not brought their country to ruin by starting another war, Germany would be the center of Europe today, and a rival to America and Russia both.

Anonymous says:
"....if anything, the USA much more resembles Germany than China does and certainly our Neocons resemble the Nazis far more than any government in China."

American Observer replies:

More nonsense. When intelligent observers point out that modern China and Nazi Germany are very similar, they mean that both countries are Capitalist dictatorships which brutalize their own people, and then attack other nations, kill their people, try to obliterate their cultures and erase their languages, and finally fill their countries with colonialists. Just as the Germans invaded countries like Poland and Ukraine in order to erase their societies and fill their lands with settlers, so have the Chinese invaded Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and the northern quarter of Korea.

While I'm not all that upset about China and trade; I'm NOT enamoured of their government.

It's ripe with corruption, has little or no checks and balances in it to protect the people, and is more repressive than our own.

The fact that China goes so far to restrict free flow of information to its populance is a clear and present indicator that it is unwilling to embrace true democracy and human rights centric behavior.

Thmak wrote: "...China has made tremendous progress politically, economically, militarily and socially. Instead of falling from grace, China gains the respect of the majority of the countries in the world and the jealousy of the few anti-China axis of evil countires."

Replace China with Nazi Germany in the above and you have what many were saying in 1936 about Germany, a nation that rose from defeat in 1918 to become an economically powerful nation with a growing military. Some in the US and elsewhere, where the depression was making life miserable, looked to Germany as a model for prosperity. What those people did not understand was that prosperity without freedom, with a totalitarian government, is a false prosperity. China is currently experiencing a prosperity which it can only hold onto by moving toward democracy. History shows that totalitarian governments do not maintain prosperity for the longterm.

I think this article is INSANE, and neocon, frankly. If followed, this will lead to world disaster and utter defeat for the USA.

China is a DEVELOPING country, Germany was a world power, and in decline; if anything, the USA much more resembles Germany than China does and certainly our Neocons resemble the Nazis far more than any government in China.

And China shows a vast willingness to change in a concrete manner, although not ideologically, while we seem to be willing to shout any ideology and yet will not change or even accommodate the results of the changes we ourselves have made, such as the global economy.

Germany could not bring itself to restructure and face a lesser position in the world vs. an expanding USA and Russia, frankly.

The problem in the world right now is that the economic base and the superstructure are way, way out of line; we need to join together to build solid international institutions for the new world that has been created; the post World War II consensus was based on reality then, but now it is not.

"Brainwashed" by the West and "ignorant of the bloody history" of the predatory Western foreign policy, Kin-Ming continues his stale China demonizing slogans of the past 50 years. He is also "ignorant " of the fact that, despite 50 more years of continuous military, political and economical suppression by the western anti-China axis of evil countires, China has made tremendous progress politically, economically, militarily and socially. Instead of falling from grace, China gains the respect of the majority of the countries in the world and the jealousy of the few anti-China axis of evil countires. "It is only a matter of time before China will pursue confrontation with the West," predicts Mr. Ledeen. His prediction is 50 more years too late. 50 more years ago, China contronted the West in their hidouts in remote China and has been confronting the West ever since, e,g, during the China civil war, Korean war, Vietnam war, etc. I hope you understand.

lzl wrote: "So China today is like Nazi Germany you say? You really must be blind..."

The comparison is valid. The government of Germany in 1936 was peaceful, but like the government of today's China considered its own population more of a danger than any foreign power. Both are totalitarian governments who show that not just maintenance of power but looking good are a priority that transcends any human right.

One part of this well written article I disagree with though. I do not think China will become an expansionist nation as Germany did. It is not in their culture or history. They will seek to retain anything they consider Chinese, such as Tibet and Taiwan, and I feel that war with Taiwan, and thus the USA, is inevitable unless Taiwan and China reunify. That should be the USA's number one goal in the next decade. However getting a communist to give up power, or share power, is not unlike asking a Nazi to do the same. Power is what defines them, what they exist for. Without total power they would be swept aside as they have in former communist nations by the will of the people. There is a reason communism, an economic system, requires a totalitarian government to run it, and that is to maintain the communist economic system against the free market that is natural to human beings. Now that the free market is replacing communism in China, there is no need for a totalitarian government. Its legitimacy is empty. Its prevention of democratic institutions taking hold an afront to the hard working people of China who deserve better governance.

Our goal should be to continue to respect the Chinese people while holding its government's feet to the fire and let them know the USA will not stand for brutality within any nation's borders, that human rights are valued more than any single party's grip on power, and that moving toward democracy should not be feared but become a goal that will lead to the reunification with Taiwan. Then, if the people of China agree with a move toward democracy, they might convince their government to relinquish power, as happened in Russia and its former Soviet states. What we should not do however is give any communist party member a reason to think we, the USA, consider their hold on power to be valid without an election that underwrites it. We led the world against such governments before, we should continue to stand for those same values today.

China has dubious distinction of a totalitarian country where every individual rights are under the scanner of government . The manufacturing scnene in China is no different. While the US and other watchdogs lament for poor working condition prevailing in other developing world , they simply close their eyes on the gross and grave violation of human rights and almost non existent individual freedom in china. The Chinese labour is like slaves who work for limited remuneration and they work and work for making cheap and often substandard merchandise under the Governments iron clout on them. so The sceret behind chinas prosperity is nothing but cruel violatin of human rights and individual freedom and substandard living conditions.

From his last statement, Mr. Kin-Ming Liu typifies a Western-worshiping Chinese who prays for a Western savior for China. If Mr. Liu is a true believer in what he states, he should try to risk him own life to be that one for the future of China. Looking back at many thousands years of Chinese history, I doubt if Mr. Liu ever learnt from it, only Chinese people had made and will make better changes for China, not a Western savior from outside.
If Mr. Liu’s statement is true that Chinese Communists Party holds onto its power only by making lies and repression, China should still be ruled by Mongols or even further back by Chin, the 1st dynasty in China, for both were known for their brutalities and repressions against Chinese people. However both dynasties lasted the shortest time among twenty four dynasties in Chinese history.

While there is still a long way to go in modernizing China, but I can bet that today’s Chinese Communists Party will definitely last longer than both of them because CCP has already made tremendous progress in improving Chinese living standards and even their political Human Rights too!

The swinging pendulum of perception on future China can be moderated to a more lasting and realistic view by improving mutual understanding as opposed to this kind of wishful thinking.

this liu is absolutely mentally retarded---I mean it--not a personal attack.him.evil in a retarded way. period.

Correction: I meant "authoritative" and not "autocratic"

stupid article

totally all nonsense

if anyone tries to hide something,will he do whatever it takes to attract the world's attention?it's absurd to compare china with the Nazi regime,of course,the chinese government is flawed,who doesn't?is Bush administration perfect?i think to the ppl in Iraq,maybe Bush adminitration is more like Nazi,cuz they have one thing in common,they committed mass murderer.

So China today is like Nazi Germany you say? You really must be blind...

Shahid wrote: "And the fact that no any poor but fully democratic country becomes rich, may indicate that democracy is not suitable for poor countries."

Actually, there are many examples. Ireland comes immediately to mind as the most recent. Many destroyed and impoverished nations prospered under democratic governments after World War II including Japan, Finland, West Germany, etc. Contrast the economic picture in West Germany and East Germany after WWII. I'd say that democracy did pretty well.

In order to have a functioning democracy, the people of a nation need to be willing to live in a civil society where particular groups don't always get their way. Where "democracy" fails, one usually finds that it is because the elected government begins to rule as an autocracy, ruling only for the benefit of its own tribe. Corruption and conflict follow, and in this environment, economic development is stunted. In other cases, democratic governments are hindered by massive corruption, but this is not a problem with democracy but with the practices of the underlying society. Sometimes, democracy is pasted onto a society in which a few wealthy families control everything, and this stunts economic development because it creates an economic culture in which the "peasants" have no access to capital and the fabulously wealthy have no incentive to create wealth for them. You can see this in the difference between Canada and Mexico. Both have ready access to the largest economy on earth. If a Canadian wants to start a business, if she has a good idea, she'll be able to raise some capital and give it a go because the economic system is set up to make this possible. Through the whole process, she will never have to bribe anyone. She need never fear kidnap. This is a business environment conducive to growth.

Dear Mr. Liu, I myself have been a critic of China's human rights policies before, but you are truly living in a fantasy land with your hatchet job attack on the Chinese nation and people.

When did people ever have this "rosy view" of China that you claim? If anything, in the 20 years I've been working in Asia, North America and Europe, overall opinion about China is better than it's ever been before.

If anything, the anti-China protesters in the Olympic Torch ceremonies only made fools of themselves by e.g. attacking Chinese Paralympians in wheelchairs or lamely trying to put out the flame with a fire extinguisher in Britain, France or Australia.

If anything, the vast majority of people I talk to are more favorable to China than ever before-- they see a country more confident of itself and able to stand tall. The protesters just look like fools with far too much time on their hands.

None of this is to argue that things are rosy there-- China does need reforms. It needs to improve its environmental record, improve copyright and intellectual property protections, to end the restrictive One Child Policy, increase energy efficiency, free political prisoners, compensate property owners for confiscated land and allow more open discussion of problems.

But China is moving in the right direction on all these issues-- it's clearly a nation progressing here. Independent judicial officials and other hallmarks of a republic are also arising. (FWIW, I don't think that China should adopt a US-style election system-- considering the way that lobbyist money, PACs, media stupidity and identity politics have taken over our elections, this hardly seems a smart way to pick leaders, as 8 years of George W. Bush should demonstrate. China is smartly using a more meritocratic system to pick leaders, while allowing popular votes and input in a more carefully designed system than we have here.)

This maybe isn't occurring as fast as many of us would like. But it's happening. China's young people are now more nationalistic than ever, and nothing is going to stop them from becoming the world's predominant nation. But there's every reason to be optimistic that, when China does take the mantle from the USA, it will be a respectable nation that we'll very much recognize.

I would not be surprised if China nationalizes foreign owned companies after the olympics having seen their dollar reserves almost cut in half by the sinking value of the dollar. It was hard earned money, money now gone. I can hear them gritting their teeth in Beijing.

A doom sayer who lost touch with reality in China!

To Thrawn: "I thought it was suppose to be analytical rather than emotional? I guess the fact that there are different kinds of nationalism within the Chinese populace, better educated Chinese within and abroad PRC China that DO know the history before and after 1949, Everything is black and white, just stereotype all of them seems to be the key of the westerners as well as some ill-thinking Chinese. "

I think you are wrong. I live among the urban educated elite Chinese and they are no different than the frothing at the mouths nationalists who are attacked people in Seoul. Despite their education they are full and willing participants in this orgy of nationalism that used to be known as the olympic games. Just today we were informed by our instructors here at Shenzhen University that despite the fact that the olympic torch supposedly represents unity, we foreign students will not be allowed to attend as it passes through Shenzhen. This despite all schools and universities in the city will be closed to allow everyone to attend. How is that for "one world one dream"?

Here is another secret the world does not yet know about their former favorite new power: The Chinese are rabid vicious racists. They consider themselves white and openly hate and discriminate against people of color who have the misfortune to work or attend school in the mainland.

Why is this important? Because this is just one more reason why China in its present form is incompatible with the values of the majority of the people in the world.

The chinese of today were raised by wolves, communists. There are a few bright spots in chinese youth but most sadly look up to the wolves who raised them . It will take a number of generations before the mainland chinese see the truth of there parents and the murderous machine of communism. Until then the chinese of today will lack any sense of how the world views them and there behaviors.
Wolves have no manners and only look out for themselves, witness darfur and China's mad dash for resources at any cost.The wolf will change, it takes time.

Hi Jeff,

I am sorry about the negative experience you had with some Chinese people, but you can by no means draw conclusions on the Chinese from the isolated incidence. To do so borders on blatant racism. I am not going to draw a conclusion about Western people's intelligence if I happen to have a few Western friends who failed in their math exams, am I?

But I am really appalled by your conclusion that Chinese people will remain poor in innovation, which I believe you drew from China's experience as the factory of the world in recent years. What an ignorant judgement!! Do you know that, by chance, that the Chinese people were one of the greatest innovators/creators in the world that brought the world such important inventions as the paper, compass and gun-powder? How presumptious you are to presume that the trend would not continue?? Plus, you mentioned that Japan would continue to be one of the major sources of innovation.. Like another reader said, in the 1970s when Japan was the factory of the world, I don't recall Westerners' having assumed that the Japanese would become innovative... Certain Westerns like yourself are making the same interpolations again today.. Sigh. Why would people never learn from mistakes?

a funny and stupid article.

Liu, remember that nowadays millions of Chinese and Chinese students are studying and living overseas, they have extensive access to news and information, and it is easy for them to keep close contact with their friends and relatives in China. Therefore information could be shared rapidly and conveniently between domestic and oversees Chinese. For most young generation, they used to trust every words from the westen medias, but after they have lived in westen countries for several years, they found they were fooled by those medias who labelled themselves as "justice" and "objective". Your article was designed to fool the ignorant people, but not smart ones. If you wrote this article just for living, then I forgive you.

Isn't it curious that the so-called "century of shame and humiliation" that's so frequently mentioned is not an obsession in Taiwan, one of the few places that was actually ceded and subjected to colonial rule? Does that suggest that the term and all the outrage it creates is a product of something other than purely facts on the ground?
Of course it is.
Amid all the sturm und drang over China's nationalism and its cultural/historical roots, Taiwan goes virtually unmentioned. If both places share so much history, why are average Taiwanese so muted on the issues?
The answer is simple: opinions are too nuanced and diverse in Taiwan to permit the foaming-at-the-mouth nationalism it sees across the Strait.
So there you have it, a moderate counter-example to China. A Chinese society that isn't subject to radical mood swings. In time, Taiwan will serve as the model for China, not the other way round.

"It is only a matter of time before China will pursue confrontation with the West," predicts Mr. Ledeen.

This is self-fulfilling prophecy.
Treat China as an enemy, and it will become one.

Engage China as your partner, and it will be your lifetime ally.

Hi! Do you think that Chinese capitalism will do "join or starve" (get a job) to their 18 yr olds, like USA capitalism does? Do you think they'll see the massive servitude infestation just like USA capitalism? Do you think the Chinese will see and experience the massive "pay up or lose your wellbeing" like USA capitalism and Elliot Ness-era Chicago mob felony extortion? Will the Chinese rat-race (cookieplate chase) for green papers with pyramid scheme symbols on the back of the one dollar note? Do you think they'll get addicted to enjoyments and being serviced... like the American herd? Do you think it will turn into a giant anti-Christian toybox tug-o-war over empowerments, just like USA capitalism? Will they name it AmWay/American Way or 'New World Order' like the USA? Does the Chinese military supply/survival system and Chinese libraries... use moneyless, ownerless, pricetagless, luxury-repositoried (shared), Christian socialism... instead of felony pyramid scheme survival systems like the USA? Does Chinese AmWay hold "the exclusive" (legal tender) on the TYPE of survival coupons (money) accepted/allowed in supply depots (stores)... just like the USA/American Way? Do you think the Chinese will buy into sham/con pyramid schemes-o-servitude as readily as Americans... or are the Chinese more moral and intelligent? Do the Chinese understand how capitalism is just like farmyard childhood servitude-infested pyramids we failed-at as kids, where the upper 1/3 is "heads in the clouds" while the kids on the bottom ALWAYS GET HURT from the weight of the world's knees in their backs? Do you think the Chinese are as gullible as Americans... to immoral and illegal systems like American capitalism?

Larry "Wingnut" Wendlandt
MaStars - Mothers Against Stuff That Ain't Right
(anti-capitalism-ists)
Bessemer MI USA

What ever happened to “professional journalism” ?????

I pity you, Liu, for having to go so low as to fantasize and employing your logic in such a devious and manipulative manner to earn your living.

You believe all are evil like yourself.

Luckily, you belong to the very small minority in this world. The rest of us, the silent majority, believe in that we learn from our mistakes from history and we (Europeans, Americans & Asians) can coexist in a peaceful and harmonious manner. Yes, we do make mistakes but we do learn from them.

May be you are the only one who doesn’t and will never learn. So, stop terrorism in your so called journalism.

Liu's comments about China is rather funny and even more funny is that his views are more westerner and the westerner, who knows very little about China.

Liu knows full well that China is NOT Nazi Germany, yet, his attitude is so out of touch with the general public in China, which caught him by surprise. Therefore, losing the argument, Liu brands pro-China people as brainwashed. Liu is the Chinese with clear conscience unlike millions of local Chinese. Urgggggg.

Liu, don't you come up with something better to write to cheer up your lost western masters to catch their eye balls.

China is NEVER aggressive. Liu's view will go down in history like a joke along with his master's China bashing.

Olympics is equal to dictatorship?
China is Hitler's Nazi/Mussolini's Fascism?
Get some sleep!
Your linear projection is way off base.

Olympics is equal to dictatorship?
China is Hitler's Nazi/Mussolini's Fascism?
Get some sleep!
Your linear projection is way off base.

I suggest people just to take a laugh whenever reading this particular author's articles. If anyone has not realized yet that all he writes about China is bad, bad, and bad beyond reasonable logic or common sense.

So, I still fly through his articles but laughing at his non-functioning brain! Criticizing China is for its bad side is one thing but all you write about China only shows his internal hatre, that's another story. No merit at all!

To response to one of the poster regarding Madame Chiang Kai-shek being honor in DC in the 1980. It's possible because she only died in New York 2003. She did come to DC to make a speech on the annivesary of her first Capitol Hill speech during World War 2.

Thought I'd go with this name due to some of the rather ridiculous statements I have read on this discussion board. I find that there is a constant desire, and even need, for individuals to contrast China with the United States rather than simple assess each country separately.

Is the United States perfect? Very, very far from it. However, this should not cloud our ability to judge our strategic rivals and the international system. Moreover, it should not negate our ability to offer criticism of regimes responsible for committing gross human rights violations, including our own (which is very often anyway).

We are people. We should be able to think idependently about each state without the constant, and generally counter-productive, need to bring up America's many problems. This does not mean we should ignore America's problems either, we should actively criticize and seek to change American policy for the better as well. But let us not get so American-centric that we are completely incapable of separating issues.

I do believe that this approach is "fair and balanced" (though definitely not in the Fox news connotation of the term). I also noticed that Sino-sense commented:
- "In the meantime, where are China's Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe? Where is its demagogic condemnation and persecution of an ethnic minority? Where is its Sudentenland threat?"

I would respond that you contrast is astoundingly simple-minded if you actually believe that conditions must exactly mirror Nazi-Germany from 1936 to 1939 in order for China to constitute a similar threat to world-peace. China is building and conserving its strength, in all likelihood preparing for the nearly inevitable clash over oil, water, and natural resources which will shape the next half-century. The world is vastly over-populated. This is due to the fact that the population has grown exponentially without the mass die-offs which would intermittently occur prior to the age of oil.

That age is coming to an end and China is the principle strategic rival to the West. China has vastly expanded its military spending (though it is still immensely less than American spending) and is currently constructing a level 5 air-defense system. It is the only country in the world doing so and it is only useful against the West. Furthermore, China is rapidly expanding their naval and satellite capacities. They also possess one of the most advanced cyber-war programs in the world, which most Westerners have likely already experienced without even knowing it.

China is more a corporatist state than a fascist state, however, so too is the United States. This, I would argue, represents the greatest threat to the world. Corporate states are very militant and exploititive. The United States,due to its overwhelming power and corrupt corporatism, is more than equally dangerous. However, I think it is necessary to examine China as well. We do not have to pick one or the other as too many seem to do here, we can and should condemn the policies of both.

"Along the Taiwan Strait, mainly. You do know that the CCP has been increasing the military budget far ahead of GDP growth for several years running, right?"...

Do a little research as to the absolute size of China's defense budget, then look at the US defense budget, not including the Iraq expenses...Do another little research as to the japanese defense udget vs the Chinese one...and look at China's population and size, which is at least ten times bigger. Big whale vs small fry. Whose the real threat? You are truly ignorant.

"Well, I suppose that Falun Gong doesn't count as an *ethnic* minority, but the whole herding into forced labor camps and systematic organ harvesting does ring a few bells nonetheless.."...

Wow, the true color shows through. An Epoch Time reader! did you know that the "organ harvest" video has been discredited by doctors in the US as totally untrue. It's actually a real video of a real operation, not some organ harvest. you are the last person to know this...get with the program.

"Did I mention Taiwan already?"...

You must be really angry that the KMT is back in power, and the prospect of another Chinese civil war has just gotten a lot smaller. Now where could you vent your hatred of China? By the way, China threatens taiwan, the US actually invaded Iraq, and will do the same to Iran. Is China the threat?

May 6

"goonews:

What do you expect from a Washington Times columnist? Washington Times!

Look at this writer's track record. Anti-china articles are his sole source of income.

May 6, 2008 6:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments"

Guess you aint heard yet, but under a Joint Operating Agreement the papers are now called The Washington Post/Times (WaPoTi)

Some time in the 1980's the then Washington Times reported in its Social Pages that Madame Chiang Kai-shek attended a party in her honor somewhere in DC. You could have knocked me over with a feather!

I had long assumed Madame Chiang was long dead or at least hidden in a bunker somewhere in Formosa. Another Grand Conspiracy of the MSM and their Patrons, the MacArthur Republicans.

Monte Haun mchaun@hotmail.com

When writers are pressed for a deadline, they write an article like this. By cherry picking facts and then analyzing the "facts" out of historical and/or political context, the author solemnly pronounces that country XXX is like Nazi Germany. .I've ready several other articles just over the last year about Bush and Hitler. In some ways, I pity the authors of these articles. They are like two year olds screaming for attention. They cannot make their points without evoking the name "Hitler."

"In the meantime, where are China's Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe?"

Along the Taiwan Strait, mainly. You do know that the CCP has been increasing the military budget far ahead of GDP growth for several years running, right?

"Where is its demagogic condemnation and persecution of an ethnic minority?"

Well, I suppose that Falun Gong doesn't count as an *ethnic* minority, but the whole herding into forced labor camps and systematic organ harvesting does ring a few bells nonetheless..

"Where is its Sudentenland threat?"

Did I mention Taiwan already?

very funny

very funny

"We must never lose sight of what many perceive as the goal of the Chinese. World domination, in any way it can achieve it."...

Wow....who is in Iraq today? In the sport of "world domination", China has a lot to learn from the USA. On the Tibetan issue, the US has lots of valuable lessons to offer too...just look at how many Cherokees or Sioux are walking around today....

There are 6 million Tibetans alive today...how many native Americans are still walking around?

Before you call someone ugly, look in the mirror.

The phrase "brain washing" has been linked to non-democracies. I myself came from a non-democracy, living in a Western democracy for 11 years. I noticed that the amount of political "brain-washing" here is not much different from back at home (if the level of brain-washing is quantifiable). People in democracies are "brain-washed" to believe the superiority of their political system; however, there isn't any scientific prove indicating that. And the fact that no any poor but fully democratic country becomes rich, may indicate that democracy is not suitable for poor countries.

The disagreement between China and the West plain mutual fear because they are different.

There is much in Chinese History to be admired. What is happening in that Country since the Communist take-over is not, however. Although, on the outside, it looks like economic democracy is rising, the truth is that the repressive government still exists as it has since it's inception. As the article's author said, it's all about retaining power. The Soviet Union fell because it spent it's resources on an arm's race with the US that was unwinable. People went without the basics of creature comfort in order to build more missles and enslave Eastern Europe. Eventually the system in the USSR went bankrupt, both economically and morally, trying to keep up. China saw this happen and made up it's collective Communist mind to take a different tack from the USSR. Little by little, the Chinese have selected certain economic paths that have brought more of a sense of possession of goods to Chinese people. Their use of labor and trade, on the back of the citizens, have made them a player in the economic world, but as repressive as ever to the Chinese people. What we witnessed with the fall of the USSR isn't going to happen in China, I believe. China is on the rise. Economically, politically, and militarily, it is going to be the rival of the US and the West for the next decades. We must never lose sight of what many perceive as the goal of the Chinese. World domination, in any way it can achieve it. New strategies must be created to deal with the coming threat to US best interests.
China is not a country we should ever take for granted in their desire to control. The fall from grace was no surprise to anyone who was paying attention to world political events.

Liu Kin-Ming first describes the back-and-forth swinging pendulum of external public opinion on China. One anticipates that he will try to offer a balanced view. Instead, noting that the pendulum is now swinging towards disfavor, he throws his weight into the attempt to push it as far to the extreme as possible - yes, he compares the regime to Hitler and the Fascists!

Yes, the regime intends to maintain its power, and propaganda, nationalism, and fear/anger towards competing countries are part of it. Someday it may indeed imitate Bismark's use of fine little wars to shore up support.

In the meantime, where are China's Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe? Where is its demagogic condemnation and persecution of an ethnic minority? Where is its Sudentenland threat?

(Note that the regime attacks the Dali Lama, not the Tibetan people. And did you know that China, a few centuries ago, campaigned among the monks of Tibet for the creation/recognition of the sacred office of the Dali Lama? The political relationship of Tibet and China has oft been fraught, but it goes back to before the creation of the Western democracies. This is not to get all Polyannish; Vietnam has been fighting off a closer political relationsip with China for centuries.)

Liu is fair and balanced like Fox News.

Pomfret is a bigot.Why don't you give China a chance to grow? Are you a member of that "terrorist" Writers without Borders" who are paid with one sole purpose: to attack China.Kin mIng lie is a loser looking for money by writing anti-China article.

Pomfret is a bigot.Why don't you give China a chance to grow? Are you a member of that "terrorist" Writers without Borders" who are paid with one sole purpose: to attack China.Kin mIng lie is a loser looking for money by writing anti-China article.

All I can say, Liu, is that you are a fool. By the way, you also look like a fool. Tsang

All I can say, Liu, is that you are a fool. By the way, you also look like a fool. Tsang

Not even close to be objective
worthless article imo

What do you expect from a Washington Times columnist? Washington Times!

Look at this writer's track record. Anti-china articles are his sole source of income.

"Great Satan"? That's the term Iran, not Europe, uses to refer to America. Europeans aren't (yet) anti-American to the point of labeling us "Satan."

Dear Mr Liu:

I am shock and apalled by your awfully harsh and biased assessment of China today. What you affectionately called "brainwashed angry youths" are actually not the only ones who are willing to support the current Chinese government. I am a Chinese-American, born and raised here, and I hold both an undergraduate and Masters degrees from two very liberal schools in the United States. But I must say that I find China's government doing a credible job so far in developing China, and bringing it into the 21st Century. How would you explain someone like myself, or many of my friends who are also overseas Chinese, and have open access to free information, and still support the Beijing government? Maybe you dont want to know about us because we completely contradict your assertions about China? Might I suggest that you examine your own assumptions, and try to open your mind. I think you may be the one "brainwashed" into assuming that if China does not follow everything "western", then it is doomed to failure. Such simplistic view, and I am shocked that you actually have the face to post such a ridiculous thing on the web. Keep complaining, but it does not matter one bit. China wll progress, and I will be enjoying the Games come August. I have my ticket ready, and plenty of money to spend in China, and no one will be able to spoil our party.

Sincerely yours,

Michael Lou
Milton, Massachusetts

Communists cannot be trusted. EVER. PERIOD.

..Unless you are trusting them to lie, be corrupt, take advantage of the uneducated in theri society, and co-opt the priveleged in their society to be corrupt.

The Communist regime in China is responsible for sending poisoned medicine, toys, and food around the world.

They deserve a total boycott of everything chinese until rule of law is more important than a party official with his greedy hand out for a bribe.

The US participated in the 1936 games, as it will in the 2008 games. Why draw any distinction? The Chinese authorities will surely prevent any disturbances, or keep them off-camera. The government can also rely on, or facilitate, adequate nationalist sentiment and actions to suppress any dissident or separatist elements. As in the US, flag lapel pins will be a reliable test of patriotic sentiment. Fortunately for China, there is no disgruntled expatriate community in Miami or Jersey City to cause trouble for the homeland. US Chambers of Commerce are also in tow with Beijing. When beholding the maginificent Chinese achievement Even the almighty Ruppert Murdoch finds reasons to bow and praise. Who would dare label China a less than pluralistic, free-market wonderland? A good share of the GOP and DEM leadership seem to share a devout admiration for the CCP-PRC and its magnificent hold over public opinion. After all, Beijing holds enough US IOUs to call the shots in Washington. Snap the fingers and watch the craven minions obey. As the Great Sage says, Go long renimbi, go short dollar.

Kin-ming Liu thank you - very frightening but its sounds about right.

Kin-ming Liu thank you - very frightening but its sounds about right.

"The Chinese Communist Party is interested in only one thing: holding on to power."

Given many dynasties lasted a couple hundred of years in the Chinese history, what's so not acceptable to the Chinese that CCP wants the same? The present day China is vastly bette than it was in 1949. If enough Chinese feel they are repressed, they will resist just like any other change of dynasties or republics.

I don't understand why so many here think the western value is the best and the only value. To impose the western value on the Chinese is no betther than on the Iraqis.

You have a little bit of anger problem there buddy. Please seek help soon.

The neighboring Southeast Asian nations aren't threatened by China, yet a growing population of Americans and Europeans thousands of kilometers away feel more threatened. Diplomatic relations between Russia and China are the best ever in world history with strategic cooperation. Southeast Asia is rapidly integrating into the Greater China Economic Bloc. Australia's largest trade partner is China and the largest immigrant group of Chinese is transforming that country into a multi-ethnic society. Even India and China that fought border wars in the 1960's have recently conducted joint military exercises. It seems that the further geographically distant from China, the more threatening China appears to many Westerners. What China does represent is the end of Western geo-political dominance to a multi-polar world order which is perhaps the real reason that the Washington Consensus so terribly fears the Chinese.

@Bob
You write:
"reason Chinese culture pressure everyone to become doctor and engineers is because the same people were living in more or less poverty less than 20 years ago. The next generation will not feel as much social pressure as you think"

I hope you're right. I believe you make a valid point about poverty issues/bootstrapping. But too many Asian friends have suggested to me that cultural pressures for career tracking are quite strong independent of the economics of a generation. If it was all about economics, my Asian *AMERICAN* friends would not feel the same sense of pressure, as there are very many avenues for wealth attainment in America. Their own generational roots have been in the New World too long for economics to be the primary influence.

In any case, I think KC intends for us to be fearful, which I certainly am not.

Is "China's Fall From Grace No Surprise" the title of Mr. Liu's article?

I did not know that China had fallen from grace? Let along whether it is surprising or not? I thought China was still developing its country and trying to lift the life of its people? It does not have a high point of grace to fall to begin with?

I though I missed something and tried to get myself informed by reading Mr. Liu's "analysis". But it becomes clearly to me that he has no idea what he is talking about himself.

On one hand, i have an urge to bash the author on the wonderful piece of propaganda, but then again, its journalists like him that's running America to the grounds. This article reminds me of the countless articles I've read back in the 70s and 80s, in China, "analyzing" how the Americans are evil and no good. China eventually realized national interest is ultimately the key to success, not ideology, all the while these journalists who lacks a basic understanding in geopolitics or economy starts turning the west in the opposite direction. It was the journalists that allowed US to enter the self-destructive war, and now the journalists are pushing US into a economical conflict with China at a time when it need China the most.

At the end of the day, its not who can write the best article, or even comment, who wins, it's the guys giving them the paycheck. Who do you think gives Mr. Liu here his paycheck? Who do you think gives the paycheck to those American soldiers stationed in Japan, flying their F22s? The US dollar will be worth nothing without Chinese goods, and that's exactly why ideological campaigns are all but useless if not counter-productive.

China does make a lot of engineers, as someone pointed out earlier, and true that they care more about their carrier than innovation, but that also remind me of the guys who "analyzed" Japan back int the 70s, when they were the world's factory. Its always easier to "predict" where a path that has no turns will lead. The reason Chinese culture pressure everyone to become doctor and engineers is because the same people were living in more or less poverty less than 20 years ago. The next generation will not feel as much social pressure as you think.

The disinformation in the US mainstream media also applies to China with CNN and Fox News engaged as propaganda tools to denigrate the Chinese people. Blatant, falsified Videotape was presented to the American people regarding the Tibet Riots that burned portions of Lhasa and destroyed the minority Hui Moslem community. Was it also really acceptable behavior that Athletes carrying the Olympic torch were violently attacked in Paris France and San Francisco by protestors demonstrating freedom of speech?

VIDEO: The Tibet Riots: What Really Happened - Truth and Lies (Click to view Videos):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8693

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8696

@KC
You say China's burgeoning body of engineers and scientists will make it preeminent. In fact, from a manufacturing perspective this may be somewhat true. But cultural forces exist that will ensure that innovation will chiefly flow from Europe, the US, Japan, and elsewhere. In college and throughout a long time in academia, I've known a lot of 1st & 2nd generation SinoAmericans (and Koreans who claim a parallel cultural tradition). What sets them apart from non-Asian Americans is a pressure they feel to be one of two things - a doctor or an engineer. At least 3 such friends have assured me that this is not some shallow stereotyping on my part - it's a very real two-track path to success status. One friend was so convinced that he had to attend med-school to impress his parents (both doctors), he scared me 1/2 to death with a suicide note when he didn't make dean's list. Thankfully, when his parents came to collect him for a few days of chilling out, they assured him that his happiness mattered more to them than did his career choice.

On the darker side, I've had Sino-American landlords (ghost tenants actually), whose primary jobs were all at the Presbyterian Hospital in Manhattan. All most knoble professionals, but they were so insensitive, greedy, and uncaring as landlords, that I eventually sued them in housing court for negligence (and was relieved of paying them 7 months rent for my efforts). So much for the Hypocrattic oath!

The point I lead up to is that the numbers of engineers, scientists, medical professionals, etc. which China lists on its scorecard are a poor reflection of what people's inner ambitions or intentions actually are. Measured per capita, Chinese will not achieve the innovations seen in the West. People innovate when their inner passion is wrapped up in their professions. When they pursue a career because they feel pressured to do so by cultural standards (real or assumed), they simply are not going to surpass the achievements of truly impassioned people.

I don't know if this author really believes his writing or he has to sell his soul, if he has any, to his master, just to make a living. The mentality of those "elites" produced by the coloniel occupation is quite different from us normal Chinese people. We (and our forefathers) struggled, bleed, and died for our national independence. We have stood on our own feet. We march on our own way. We don't give a damn to the west and their opinion. 1.4 billion Chinese world is bigger than that of 0.8 billion West.

By the way, Mr. Liu, isn't that "sad" that the HK people, when given the freedom to protest, came out in force to cheer and support the Olympics and China during the Olympics torch stop here? As they said in Chinese, the people's eyes are clear: they recognized the Chinese government's success and achievements in developing the country and lifting people out of poverty, and they rewarded it with support. They also saw the Olympics as a source of pride. How dare can you deny the wish of the 1.3 billion Chinese people in China and tens of millions of overseas Chinese worldwide?

Hmmm, the Chinese "claim a major role in the world because of their history and culture, not just on the basis of their current power, or their scientific or cultural accomplishments"... I do believe China is regarded as a global power these days, if not the emerging superpower that will replace the US. Well, and China's scientific and cultural accomplishments will be increasingly numerous with its annual graduation of the world's biggest number of science/engineering students and its increasing soft power... I think you are either ignorant or choose to be one, which is sad..

I thought it was suppose to be analytical rather than emotional? I guess the fact that there are different kinds of nationalism within the Chinese populace, better educated Chinese within and abroad PRC China that DO know the history before and after 1949, the split between the reformists and conservatives within the CCP itself, doesn't matter to the author. Everything is black and white, just stereotype all of them seems to be the key of the westerners as well as some ill-thinking Chinese. No wonder the West did what the CCP didn't do in over 30 years, it unified its people to support China, regardless of their love/hate relationship with CCP.

Good job on putting two culture on the clashing path toward conflict.