Former Washington-based columnist for The Hong Kong Standard, The New York Sun, and Insight on the News, an online weekly published by The Washington Times. Covered economic and political relations between the United States and East Asia, with an emphasis on China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Former chairman of the Hong Kong Journalists' Association. Currently a business executive at a Chinese-language newspaper in Hong Kong.
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Kin-ming Liu
Hong Kong
Former Washington-based columnist for The Hong Kong Standard, The New York Sun, and Insight on the News, an online weekly published by The Washington Times.
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Mr. Nut trots out with another useless and recycled Taiwan independence "argument" from the 80's. He must have his head stuffed full of these.
As for FAPA? Their undue influence has waned with the growth of China and will continue to do so. In fact, where is FAPA these day? I think they must be in hibernation.
QUEREM CRIAR UMA AMPLA RECESSÃO, DE QUALQUER JEITO
Pela primeira vez, em décadas, o Tesouro Americano deixou de tutelar, de fato, as sugestões e iniciativas dos grandes cartéis financeiros. E essa inesperada reação, com o anúncio de um pacote de medidas pelo governo americano, que não beneficia bancos, mas a economia do país e milhões de americanos, está acarretando, em cadeia,uma forte transformação no mercado financeiro mundial cartelizado.
O governo americano entendeu e outras nações também devem entender, que a fragilidade dos Bancos Centrais no monitoramento
do sistema financeiro, é que está causando tanta tempestade e rebordosa.
O mundo se cartelizou no sistema financeiro, no petróleo, nas bolsas de valores e de mercadorias e em uma dezena de outras atividades e os governantes das principais nações do mundo, ficaram escravos e impotentes para agirem na defesa dos interesses dos povos de suas nações.
E, agora, estamos vendo, com transparência,como o sistema financeiro agia em absoluta tranquilidade e, em, alguns casos, com irresponsabilidade total e impunidade que continua até hoje. E esse alvoroço todo só tem um culpado, o próprio sistema financeiro, sofisticado, competente, ágil e se comunicando para iniciativas de um mesmo comando e On line.Por outro lado, os Bancos Centrais não foram capazes de acompanhar e de monitorar essa evolução que beneficia milhares, em detrimento de bilhões de pessoas.
Os cartéis estão tentando, de todas as formas, um maior envolvimento do Tesouro americano, com a crise que os próprios bancos criarem, alimentarem e se beneficiaram dela, auferindo lucros de alguns bilhões de dólares. Agora, terão que voltar ao mundo real,entendendo que o dinheiro de bilhões de pessoas não pode mais ser transferido para milhares de pessoas da especulação volátil, improdutiva, sem custo, mas com sacrificio e a troco de que ou de quem ?
Uma nova paginação para os Bancos Centrais e para o sistema financeiro é imperativa, urgente e passa necessariamente por profundas transformações, benéficas para as Contas do Tesouro de países pobres e ricos, totalmente factíveis e de efeito imediato, dependendo apenas da vontade política das Nações.
Como os cartéis que atuam em todas as áreas, estão cada vez mais fortes e os governos cada vez mais fracos para enfrentá-los, basta simplesmente a criação do Cartel do Povo,via Tratado ou qualquer outro instrumento, através dos governantes do G-20, para defender os direitos de mais de 6 bilhões de pessoas, apenas limitando o ágio, acima da inflação, a um porcentual máximo de 3%, para rolagem ou assunção de dividas. É uma iniciativa de efeito multiplicador, democrática, capitalista e de cunho também profundamente social e que pode gerar economia de mais de USD 1 trilhão para os cofres de países ricos e pobres e os matemáticos podem confirmar. E com isso, com certeza, não haverá mais a necessidade da costumeira democratização de lucros e da socialização de prejuízos( em nome do mercado livre) e o mundo viverá em tranquilidade para gerar mais riquezas e reduzir as gritantes desigualdades entre nações ricas e nações pobres e para extinguir a categoria de indigentes. Em consequencia, a vergonhosa ratificação estatística de que somente 2% da população mundial responde por 50% da riquezas, será compulsoriamente reduzida, ano a ano. E o Brasil, que assumirá, em poucos dias, a Presidencia Financeira do G-20, poderá entrar para a história das nações, se conseguir criar esse Cartel que defenderá os interesses de bilhões de pessoas, para que tenham condições dígnas de vida.
Quanto ao sistema financeiro, que ganhou muito com as Letras Hipotecárias, em Investimentos de alto risco e ainda acumula lucros de bilhões de dólares nos últimos cinco anos, é natural que devolva agora parte dessa gordura que está bem localizada e que não levará o paciente à UTI. E países como o Brasil, devem refletir,com calma, sobre a importancia da iniciativa do governo americano ao cortar o cordão umbilical atado ao pernicuioso protecionismo ao capital especutivo mundial. Essa corrente americana começou e deve continuar e se fortalecer, mesmo com as fortes pressões de todos os lados, porque está no correto caminho de defender bilhões para não continuar privilegiando somente milhares de pessoas. O capitalismo de hoje nunca mais será o capitalismo perverso de ontem, felizmente.Esperamos que o presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, não deixe que o noticiário da imprensa mundial e dirigido, atrapalhe a tragetória de queda da Selic, em decorrencia das frágeis argumentações. Façamos uma corrente prá frente, Brasil.E PARA ONDE IRA OU ESTÁ INDO ESSE CAPITAL APÁTRICA DE TRILHÕES DE DÓLARES ?
Why does the US continue to give the Israelis billions of dollars in foreign aid each year, even though we can’t afford it and have to borrow the money from the Chinese (plus interest)?
I don’t know either unless it’s because AIPAC owns our congress, senate and executive branches of government.
BAQAA CAMP, Jordan (AP) -- Election time is a unique moment for Palestinian refugees in Jordan: A chance to try to improve their lot in their adopted land and press their dreams of returning to homes in what is now Israel.
Some in this squalid camp, where frustration and poverty are widespread, see little use in voting in Tuesday's parliamentary elections. But unlike Palestinian refugees elsewhere in the Middle East, refugees here at least have a voice -- Jordan is the only Arab nation that has given them the right to vote…
''We want all the perks and rights offered to Jordanian citizens,'' said Wael al-Sharif, a 40-year-old contractor who lives in Baqaa, home to 120,000 refugees, where raw sewage flows into the alleyway, creating an acrid stench as barefoot children play.
''We want to get on with our lives until we return to our long lost homeland,'' he said.
The refugees, Palestinians who lost their homes in 1948 and their descendants, say they are relegated to second-class status in Jordan.
They say government jobs, particularly in the royal palace, the foreign and interior ministries, army and intelligence are closed to them. So is the free university education offered to the Bedouin tribes who form the bedrock of support for Jordan's King Abdullah II.
The so-called ''1948 Palestinians'' who make up 1.9 million of Jordan's 5.5 million population, live mostly in 10 impoverished camps around the country, relying on U.N. aid -- a condition that imposes a degree of segregation from the rest of the population. Frustration among camp youth provides fertile ground for Islamic extremists.
An additional 800,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in the West Bank in the 1967 Middle East war are more integrated into the society because they lived under Jordanian rule between 1950 and 1967, when Israel seized the land.
The 1948 Palestinians have about 10 percent of parliament's 110 seats, a proportion they are expected to maintain after Tuesday's vote -- though they note that it doesn't reflect their 34 percent of the population…
By STEVEN GUTKIN
The Associated Press
Saturday, November 17, 2007; 1:43 PM
JERUSALEM -- Years of negotiations have already revealed the only workable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, sizable majorities on both sides want peace and the cost of failure is clear: a victory for Hamas and its patron, Iran.
Yet despite what appear to be ideal conditions for relaunching peace talks, the two sides are finding it as difficult as ever to get to work _ bogged down by domestic weakness, mutual distrust and the growing influence of extremists...
In recent days, the two sides have disagreed heatedly over a fresh Israeli demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state. And Palestinian negotiators said Israel's offer to partially freeze settlement construction and release a few hundred prisoners before Annapolis falls far short of their expectations...
Palestinians fear that Israeli "facts on the ground" _ expanding West Bank settlements, far-flung Jewish outposts, a massive separation barrier jutting deep into Palestinian territory _ have eroded prospects for a viable Palestinian state.
After the past six years of bloodshed killed more than 4,400 Palestinians and 1,100 Israelis, the sides are again coming together for peace talks _ a paradoxical consequence of Hamas' Gaza takeover, which led to the creation of a moderate West Bank government viewed as a credible negotiating partner by Israel and the West...
The stakes also seem higher now than before, especially with Hamas and Iran ready to pounce on failure as a way to bolster Mideast extremists. But with Hamas in control of Gaza and Olmert plagued by a series of corruption probes, the Israeli and Palestinian leaders are likely to have a difficult time mustering the strength and support needed to achieve a peace deal.
Though talks at Camp David and Taba failed, they did sketch what many still see as the only way out of the last six decades of conflict:
_ A non-militarized Palestinian state would be created based on Israeli frontiers before the 1967 Mideast War. Israel would keep most of its so-called settlement blocs where some 80 percent of its West Bank settlers reside. In exchange, Palestinians would be compensated for such land with equal amounts of Israeli territory.
_ Jerusalem would be the capital of both states, with Arab sections going to Palestine and Jewish neighborhoods to Israel. The deal would include a delicate power-sharing arrangement for the Old City, with each side controlling its respective holy sites.
_ Palestinian refugees who lost their homes when Israel was created in 1948 would get financial compensation and resettlement assistance, and Israel would offer some acknowledgment of their suffering.
_ An international presence in Israel/Palestine would help monitor implementation of the deal.
The proposed solution entails bitter pills for each side. The Palestinians would have to give up their dream of having all refugees return to cities or villages inside Israel, and Israel would have to relinquish its long-standing demand to keep all of Jerusalem...
"The devil lies in the details," he said. "It's a big devil."
Polls show a majority of Palestinians and Israelis now favoring the establishment of a Palestinian state on territory captured by Israel in 1967. Yet overcoming the historical stumbling blocks _ the religious attachments to the Holy Land, the shadow of the Holocaust on the Israeli psyche, Palestinians' deep-seated sense of victimhood _ will never be easy.
Shortly after the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian fighting in 2001, President Clinton gave a speech in which he said the choices facing Israelis and Palestinians would remain the same, regardless of "whether they come today or after several years of heartbreak and bloodshed."
"The parties will face the same history, the same geography, the same neighbors, the same passions, the same hatreds," he said. "This is not a problem time will take care of."
High-level Saudi presence seen unlikely at Annapolis
By Andrew Hammond
Reuters
Monday, November 19, 2007; 11:23 AM
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia could keep the United States guessing until the last minute on whether it will attend a Middle East peace conference next week, but analysts and diplomats say a high-level delegation is unlikely.
Saudi Arabia -- a key U.S. ally whose presence would give a major boost to the U.S.-sponsored November 26-27 summit in Annapolis, Maryland -- has said it will attend only if core issues are tackled at the latest in a line of high-profile Arab-Israeli meetings dating back to Madrid in 1992.
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal declined to speak on the issue, telling reporters on Sunday: "The Arab countries will meet on November 22 and the Arab position will be fixed then." He was referring to an Arab foreign ministers meeting at the Arab League in Cairo...
They said Riyadh fears that without clear results on a peace deal, the conference could play into the hands of Iran, whose growing regional influence has alarmed U.S. and Saudi leaders.
"People here would rather not see the conference take place than for it to happen and come to nothing. That would reinforce Iran and weaken Abbas," one diplomat said.
In Riyadh for an OPEC summit this week Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attacked Arabs who attend.
"Those who plan to go there -- who will they represent? The people of Palestine have not given them permission to represent them," he told a news conference.
I found the poll results interesting so thought I would share them. Even though they are from pro-Israeli sites, I have no reason to doubt them. I knew that most Americans favored the Israeli side of the conflict, and wondered what the numbers were.
They are not all that surprising I think: 59% sympathize with Israelis, 15% sympathize with Palestinians and 26% have no opinion. Since the more people pay attention, the more they sympathize with the Israelis; I think that the analysis by some that the “terrorist” attacks on civilians by suicide bombers are largely responsible. People fail to realize that this is just the only response left to the Palestinians who have been unjustly displaced from their homes. The Israeli civilians and settlers are actually foot soldiers in a battle to the death against the displaced rightful owners of their land.
I think that other factors are at work, like political/religious and cultural factors. Democrats and independents are roughly neutral on the subject, while 77% of Republicans sympathize with Israelis. Ah, that explains it; the same people who gave us George W. Bush are also giving us a pro-Israeli bias.
I think that religious/cultural influences play a strong role. It is telling that the mainly secular Europeans side with the underdog Palestinians, while the mainly religious U.S. sides with Israel. Most of us identify with the Old Testament stories of Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, Jonah and the Whale, David and Goliath, etc. David and Goliath is a particularly apt one considering tiny Israel being perceived as the underdog David fighting the giant Goliath Arab League of Nations; when actually the opposite is the case with the world’s only superpower giving the Israelis unconditional support (for the moment).
Ignorance of the history of the conflict has a lot to do with the poll results I think. Most, unlike you and I, are unaware of the manner in which the land was taken from its rightful owners (in my opinion) and transferred to the illegal and unwanted Zionist immigrants.
A parallel case might be if a powerful alien invader were to decide that we were not the rightful owners of the good ole U.S. of A., and decided to return everything west of the Mississippi to the Mexicans and Native Americans. They would have a much more valid case to make, since we have only occupied this land for less than two hundred years, whereas the Arabs had occupied Palestine for almost two millennia.
Oh well, “things” are about to change dramatically I think. The coming energy wars, the $100 per barrel (and rising) cost of oil, and our $10 Trillion (and rising) national debt is about to cool our enthusiasm for financing our colonialist ambitions by borrowing from the Chinese. If not, the Chinese and oil exporting nations will dictate terms to us on just about any matter of their choosing.
Most Americans support Israel in her war against Palestinian Islamic terrorists
Gallup has published a poll that clearly shows that a large majority of the American people supports Israel in their war against Palestinian Islamic terrorists:
Gallup's long-standing trend question on the Middle East, first measured in 1988, asks Americans whether their sympathies in the conflict lie more with the Israelis or the Palestinians. As has typically been the case, Americans are much more likely to sympathize with the Israelis (59%) than with the Palestinians (15%), with the remaining 26% not taking either side or not having an opinion. The current figures represent one of the most lopsided margins in favor of the Israelis ever recorded by Gallup. The only other times sympathy has been this high were during the first Persian Gulf War in February 1991 (when Iraq was launching Scud missiles into Israeli territory) and shortly before the start of the second war with Iraq, in February 2003 (58%). In 2004 and 2005, sympathy toward the Palestinians, though still low, was as high as it has been historically (18%).
Republicans (77%) are significantly more likely to sympathize with the Israelis than are Democrats (50%) or independents (50%). Gallup also finds that Americans who say they follow news about world affairs "very closely" are more likely to sympathize with the Israelis (66%) than Americans who follow foreign news only somewhat closely (59%) or who do not follow it closely (52%).
Gallup's World Affairs Poll also obtains basic favorable ratings of a variety of countries each year, including Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The new poll finds 68% of Americans saying they have a favorable opinion of Israel, including 21% who are "very favorable" toward it. Twenty-three percent view Israel unfavorably. Those numbers are essentially unchanged from last year, and are the most positive for Israel aside from a 79% favorable rating in February 1991 during the first Persian Gulf War.
In stark contrast, just 11% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the Palestinian Authority, while 78% have an unfavorable view (29% say their view is "very unfavorable"). Last year, opinion was considerably more positive, with 27% favorable and 62% unfavorable. In fact, the current readings are the most negative Gallup has found since it began asking about the Palestinian Authority in 2000, while last year's were the most positive...”
"Glenn M. Frazier is a freelance writer and editor of GlennFrazier.com."
“The European bureautocracy is shocked by the American stance toward Israel. The common views outside the United States range from seeing Israel as an oppressor state — some say "terrorist" — to the milder "well, both sides are guilty, but Israel is stronger."...
In a poll taken by the Pew Research Center in early April, the growing transatlantic gap in opinions on the Israel-Palestine conflict was confirmed. According to the poll, most people on the continent (France 63 per cent, Germany 63 per cent, Italy 51 per cent) disapprove of current U.S. policies with regard to the Middle East, while only 26 per cent of Americans themselves polled said they "disapprove".
Further, when asked to choose sides between Israel and the Palestinians, most Europeans either primarily sided with the Palestinians (France 36 per cent, Great Britain 28 per cent), or selected "neither" (Germany 33 per cent, Italy 32 per cent). Most Americans, on the other hand, placed their sympathies with Israel (41 per cent), with 21 per cent saying "neither" and only 13 per cent choosing the Palestinians. (Interestingly, in every country surveyed, those sympathizing with "both" were outnumbered by those choosing "neither.")...
President Bush`s popularity is in large part due to the great gift he brought us in September: moral clarity.”...
[Obviously this is an old document (May 2002)]
“As idealistic as many Americans are when it comes to notions of right and wrong, we are deeply, deeply cynical when it comes to words and ideas. We are the "show-me" nation. And that`s one more reason the notion of a conspiratorial Jewish Controlled Media is so silly to the average American. Who trusts the media?!...
This, in the end, is the great divide between Europe and the U.S.: We believe nothing, they believe in nothing.”
TT
I harbor no hatred toward any country and Israel in particular...
"you are incredibly misinformed and ignorant in regard to what is going on in the rest of the world". Actually, I think I'm quite well informed. I'm well aware of what's going on in Darfur, and I feel for the Darfuris as much as I feel for the Palestinians. My compassion and outrage are not selective, unlike the writer of this article. But I digress... Anyway, there are plenty of people who have been very vocal in their criticism of Sudanese government, and they can do so without ever worrying about being labeled as anti-sudanese bigot. Yet whenever someone criticize the Israeli government for its inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people, they are instantly labeled as anti-semitic. Can you tell me why that is? If you have an answer for it, I love to hear it. If not, then say so, I won't think any less of you.
Help me understand your motivation. Is it human rights in general or is it just Israel that elicits your hatred?
If it is human rights then I can only assume you are incredibly misinformed and ignorant in regard to what is going on in the rest of the world. No one who is serious about human rights could state as you have, that Israel is currently the most egregious human rights violator in the world--especially in light of what is taking place in Darfur and Burma to name a few.
By Jeffrey Heller
Reuters
Monday, November 19, 2007; 8:29 AM
“JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sought wide Arab support on Monday for a U.S.-led peace conference by agreeing to release 441 Palestinian prisoners and reaffirming a pledge not to build new Jewish settlements....
Olmert did not say in earlier remarks to his cabinet if he would freeze construction within existing settlements in the occupied West Bank, as sought by the Palestinians and the United States. A senior Palestinian negotiator, latching on to the uncertainty, called Olmert's comments "nonsense."...
In addition, settlers have set up several dozen hilltop outposts without government approval.
Olmert repeated at the cabinet session a long-standing promise to remove the outposts, but again set no date.
In a gesture to Abbas, he also won cabinet approval to release 441 Palestinian prisoners, a government official said.
All were members of Abbas's Fatah faction "without blood on their hands" and could go free as early as Friday after a review of a release list by a ministerial committee, the official said. Abbas had wanted 2,000 freed...
SAUDI PARTICIPATION
Saudi Arabia, which has not said whether it would attend the November 26-27 conference, had demanded a "freeze of settlements" before the meeting. It was unclear whether Olmert's remarks would go far enough to persuade Riyadh to participate.
"What Olmert announced today is nonsense," senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said. "Olmert has to understand he either declares a full settlement freeze in all occupied areas including East Jerusalem, or it's nothing."
The road map calls for a freeze to "all settlement activity," including "natural growth," a reference to building in existing settlements to accommodate growing families.
"If Olmert does not halt 'natural growth' then nothing has changed," said Nabil Abu Rdainah, an Abbas aide.
About 270,000 Jewish settlers live among 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians. The World Court has branded all settlements on land captured by Israel in a 1967 war as illegal.
Abbas's chief negotiator said Israeli and Palestinian teams had failed to make progress on a pre-conference joint document that would address in general terms core issues such as borders and the future of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.
In a surprise announcement, Olmert's office said the prime minister planned to go to Egypt on Tuesday for talks with President Hosni Mubarak.
His trip appeared to be part of efforts to ensure broad Arab participation in the Annapolis meeting, a launching pad for formal talks on Palestinian statehood. Arab League foreign ministers meet in Cairo on Friday to decide whether to attend...
TT
"Bringing things like the Torah and "god's chosen people" into this... You obviously have some personal issues with the jews."
I have no personal issues with the Jews. I'm just wondering why anyone who dares to criticize the brutal treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli government are immediately labeled as anti-semi. And I'm postulating that maybe it's because the Jews are "god's chosen people", and therefore their actions are beyond the reproach of us mere mortals? Maybe only god has the authority to rebuke the Jews (as he has often done in the old testament time). BTW, do you consider god anti-semi, since his punishments seemed to be rather harsh.
As for my comment about Jews committing genocide, well, I don't know how else to describe what they did to the tribes that lived in the "promise land" before the Jews got there. When a group of people is subject to wholesale slaughter, because of their religion or tribal identity, isn't that the definition of genocide.
Freedom babes : I am familar with US History; the source of your Israeli history is somewhat distorted. I know of no UN report that claims Israel drove over 4million Palestinians out of their homes. The exact amount of Palestinians who LEFT Israel is unkown. The Arabs claim their children and their children's children are refugees. In fact most LEFT during 1948 when they and Egypt,Jordan,Lebanon, Syria,Saudi Arabia,Iraq,and sundrey Arab volunters failed to kill off all the Jews. I am however, familar with roughly 800,000 Arabic Jews driven out of Arab countries who settled in Israel. I must say our Indian bros. were treated quite poorly.
Territory and the exercise of power are emotional issues. There is no predicting what the Chinese will do.
Taiwanese politicians have an easy mass appeal subject when it comes to speaking of independence, etc.
The truth is that the Taiwanese and Chinese economies are a lot more interdependent than most people realize. Taiwanese businessmen routinely travel to China.
It is the undercurrent of uncertainty accompanied by immense power that is cause for concern. Even if the US levied economic sanctions which is about all we could do, given our reliance on China, that will be short-lived and the Chinese will get over it.
As for your comment:
>
Well, I buy the more conventional thesis that Ronald Reagan outspent the Soviet Union into oblivion. Of course, we will never know to what extent Gorbachev and Yeltsin accelerated the process because they saw that it made sense.
Putin doesn't seem to think it makes sense to let everything go.
Anyhow, thanks for the comments and I hope you are right in your optimism.
A. Handle:
I believe, maybe naively, that there will be peaceful solutions to all these conflicts in the world. The only thing is that human beings may not have enough intelligence to avoid them.
Arrogance has always driven us to conflicts and human suffering. George W. Bush and his neocons were too arrogant to realize that the low-tech Iraqis are capable of and determined enough to drag the mighty US miliatry into a quackmire. It does look like the Chinse leadership sees that Taiwan may be another Iraq if China is to attacked unprovoked. But if Taiwan is to declare independence, then Beijing has no choice but to act militarily just to keep its legitimacy as the government of China. The determination of the Taiwanese to keep their automomy is only matched by the determination of the mainlanders to resolve their own internal issues on their own terms, especially when it comes to sovereignty. Nobody should underestimate a determined people.
There will be a time in the future, when the people across the Taiwan Strait will be able to sit down as friends and as equals to calmly discuss the status of Taiwan in relation to China. Tibetans may someday be allowed to choose whether they want to stay with China. In the same spirit, Native Americans may one day decide to establish a sovereign country (not tiny reservations) of their own in Florida or Alaska, and other Americans will understand. Muslims may also welcome Israelis as fellow good neighbors. Time is the key. Who in 1943 America would have thought that their bitter enemy, the Japanese and Germans, could become their close allies?
The United States won the Cold War not because she has better weapons or more allies than the Soviet Union. It is because she showed the Russians and Eastern Europeans what they could've achieved had they not been practicing a planned economy. Today's China is more capitalistic than even the US in many respect. The persue of happiness, as stated in the American Constitution, is the driving force behind humans to understand each other. If the US and her allies cannot convince Chinese people that their way of life is far better, then they can't achieve it by brute force, as that "Rationlist" character is proposing.
The arrogant foreign policies practiced by post-Cold War administrations of the US has finally met its demise in Iraq. It's time to go back to the game of winning hearts and minds for the major powers like the US and China, and maybe we as a species have a chance of not destroying ourselves. That is what I consider true FREEDOM.
I don't disagree with anything you write so seriously as to want to dissect it bit by bit.
However, it is not clear to me that China is satisfied with maintaining the status quo indefinitely. Obviously, independence is a radical step away from the Mainlanders' notion that Taiwan remains a part of China.
It has been quite some time since the Taiwanese were disabused of the notion that they were the sole spokespersons for all China.
As a practical matter, the US had to, at some point, abandon the charade about China's role in the Security Council, etc.
What is remarkable is that in the 21st Century, anyone could think that it makes a bit of difference to Chinese identity and dignity whether Taiwan is formally declared a part of the mainland or not.
Sometimes, the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach makes a lot of sense.
However, I am sure that superior minds like Koko or Joko or whatever his name was - that I can't see now while posting this - will enlighten us as to what history has already happened 2 or 3 years from now.
You ask in respect of my question posed to Freedom: "'And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?'
Is that a rhetorical question?"
Well, I'll tell you what smart guy who tells me that I am ignorant without ever having met me or spoken with me, you figure this one out. I suspect that anyone who has finished 10th grade knows what this particular rhetorical illustrative device is called.
"Just who exactly does china need to get permission from to take over Taiwan?"
Right now, no one because no one has the ability to stop any such action. It is for Chinese leaders to determine whether such a move makes sense in the modern world. On the one hand they have the horrible results of their own experience with Tibet - a takeover that has achieved nothing other than the satisfaction of saying a land about the size of a condominium development in the overall context of China, is Chinese.
On the other hand, they have the experience of Hong Kong - a more or less, and getting less each day autonomous area, but make no mistake, it's all about money. And that's where Taiwan stands out.
"You are as ignorant of Chinese history as you are of jewish hisotry. well, let me enlighten you."
Thank you for the enlightenment, oh wise one. How did you know that you are a superior intellect? I mean really, how did you come to decide that when you were going to "enlighten" me about "history" you would be writing about what is going to happen in the "future" as opposed to what unskilled and unenlightened minds like mine perceive to be the meaning of "history" as being what HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
See, here is what you wrote about HISTORY:
"Taiwan is the last vestige of Chinese civil war. And the Chinese will decide the timing and manner in the which their war will be finished. Should the US government be duped by the Taiwan lobby, and compeplled to join the fight, it'll make the Iraq imbroglio look like a walk in the park... Sooner or later, the US governmFent and the US congress will realize what a folly the TRA has been and repeal it."
Yes, you are absolutely correct that I am ignorant. Obviously, I was ignorant about the meaning of the word "history."
Rationalist:
India lost in the War with China in 1962, which she provoked. I know it's eating Indians up from the inside, but deal with it. There are winners and losers in this world. Winners only do and losers only talk. You Indians know nothing but talk. The British rule India for two centuries and you are still bragging about it. Japan lost the war to the US and she quietly built herself back to the top. Until this day Japan doesn't claim that she will be a superpower by 2010 or 2020, neither does China, but Indians are already telling the whole world exactly that. What a loser!
Incredible some bloggers are suffering from a Syndrome called " Self deluding Hallucination", that appears to be incurable for them. These Guys are presumably brain-washed by their Peking musters. They still feel that they can ensue a " MAO type Long March" and grab and chew any nation they like"? However they have to realize that this is 21st. Century, and lots of water flown through Yangtze river and world changes around them unrecognizably, But these MAO type communists and their slavish followers are stuck in their own mind sets of "Hegemony", from where they have no escape.
The ASEAN Nations are well aware of china- Commies' well planned evil design, and ASEAN-s are well prepared for that. For Commie's information only- ASEAN-s and America recently have joined in a Forum to chalk out a future plan to establish an Army cum Naval forces - militarized corridor that will placate Commies' intended "Preemptive Strike" on Taiwan [Vietnam and probably on India]? In the meantime Taiwanese are receiving short and medium range Ballistic Missiles, that means if commies do strike Taiwan, on retaliatory measures, China's few shining SEZ zones and glittering Modernized Cities could be evaporated.
For further informations for Peking's commies only- The nuclear defence deal between India and America is on final stage. What is the purpose of this Nuke-deal? Within Year and half time- anti missile Defence system will be operational, and few number of AMDs will be setup inside Indian territories, specially near IndoChina border. Recent Modernized and mechanised Indian Naval fleets are regularly patrolling on Indian ocean, Malacca strait, and south China sea up to Taiwan coast. And rest is looked after by Seventh Fleet. So dear commies what all these are about??
The main purpose of all these to give protection to Taiwan, and don't make any mistake about it.
We know that China is buying huge amount of latest Military and Naval hard wares from Russia, and very recently she received a Nuclear Sub. from Russia. We also know that Russia herself is not happy about Peking's motive. So Russia and America + ASEANs are coming together to block China's any expanding tendency. So Please desist from being unnecessary boastfulness, better apply some sobering thoughts.
A. Handle: I am glad that you ask some intelligent questions, unlike thos who keep shouting rhetorics.
My point is that the Tibetans were no more oppressed than Native Americans or Palestinians or many other people in the world. To use Tibet or any history as an excuse for Taiwan's independence is nothing but rhetoric.
Taiwan had been a part of China for over 2 hundred years. The inhabitants on the island are 95% Chinese. No matter what the United States say or do, Chinese people on the mainland and many in Taiwan still feel they are one people and should be reunited.
The issue is not whether Taiwan should go back to China at this time. China has made it clear that she is willing to keep the status quo, which is neither reunification nor independence. The Taiwanese government on the other hand, wants to declare formal independence knowing that war is the only outcome.
The worst part of this is that unlike Israel, Taiwan is not capable of fighting off China by herself. That is why Kin-ming Liu is here lobbying Americans to send their sons and daughters to fight for Taiwan's independence.
I support Israel's existence as a nation. I think the Israelis earned their place in the world against overwhelming odds. But Israel should, and must, for its own continuing existence, try more to make peace with the Arab world. The point is not to change the hatred of Muslims toward Israel, but to show the world, especially the other major powers like Europe, Russia, China and India, that Israel is not the trouble maker. That goes a long way to help her cause and peace in the Middle East. The United States alone may not be enough to support Israel forever, or even much longer.
Remember this huge difference between Israel and Taiwan. The Muslim world wants to drive all Jews out of Israel while China only wants Taiwan to return in name. Taiwan's government, institutions, economic system and even military can stay unchanged. And China is willing to wait until Taiwan changes its mind. Try asking the Muslims to wait peacefully for the Jews to leave Israel.
Compared to Israel as Liu is trying to do, the Taiwanese government is just a whiny little baby milking the good will of America for everything it needs to stay in power.
"And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?"
Is that a rhetorical question? Just who exactly does china need to get permission from to take over Taiwan? You are as ignorant of Chinese history as you are of jewish hisotry. well, let me enlighten you. Taiwan is the last vestige of Chinese civil war. And the Chinese will decide the timing and manner in the which their war will be finished. Should the US government be duped by the Taiwan lobby, and compeplled to join the fight, it'll make the Iraq imbroglio look like a walk in the park... Sooner or later, the US government and the US congress will realize what a folly the TRA has been and repeal it.
So, Freedom, if we accept the accuracy of your numbers, your point is that 6 million Israelis should now be driven from their homes?
And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?
Should all modern day Americans be required to leave the territory of the US? Who'd go to the casinos?
I don't know enough about the history of how Israel was created, and sometimes think all I have is anecdotal information. It'd take far more time than I have to study the subject in detail.
However, it is clear that the transition process has been badly mangled by all sides. I've commented on this in other posts.
Richard Cohen who is a columnist for the Post wrote some months ago that the creation of Israel was probably a mistake. I assume he means in the Middle East.
What I can say is that for as long as other countries threaten to destroy Israel, there will be no peace.
How much better for them to get together and build homes, schools, factories, power plants, and infrastructure for the Palestinians in a viable state? Might give them a stake in something to build and enhance.
The Native American population in the modern-day US went from 12 million in 1500 to 237 thousand in 1900. Ever heard of the Indian Removal Act of 1830? 100,000 Native Indians were driven out of their homes at gun point and marched west. Many of them died on the way. Four thousand Cherokees perished on the Trail of Tears.
According to the UN, 4.6 million Palestineans were driven out of their homes by Israel to become refugees.
People who represent oil interests lobby on energy policy. So do people in the electric and gas and ethanol spheres.
People who represent health insurance companies, and people who represent pharmas and people who represent hospitals and people who represent physicians and people who represent nurses, lobby on health care policy.
People lobby about transportation, tort reform, class actions, women's rights, pets...
agricultural subsidies, tobacco, faith based stuff, education,
free trade, foreign trade, nuclear energy, hydroelectric power ...
hmmm... this is how a democracy works. It's got good and bad aspects.
People who are interested in Israel lobby for Israeli interests.
People who are interested in Saudi Arabia lobby for Saudi Arabian interests.
People lobby for Islamic causes.
When we don't like the outcome, we can either criticize the lobbyists or lobby on our own to change the result.
Take a look at what China did to Tibet.
Take a look at what Ahmadinejad and the Supreme Leader of Iran said they will do to Israel.
The author of this piece has a point.
You may not like his position, but he makes a lot of sense.
Mr Liu writes - "As a strong supporter of Taiwan, I have no choice but to lend my support to Israel as well"... Here's a guy who who harps on any chinese human rights violation, real or imagined. And yet he's completely oblivious to the unspeakable pain and suffering of the palestinian people. Where's your outrage, where's your compassion? Whether Mr Liu's criticism of China is base on ulterior motives or self-loathing, it's certainly not based on moral principle.
In case I wasn't clear, here is the truth about Taiwan.
Israel earned its right to exist and even thrive in the Middle East on their own strength. The Muslims can keep whining about how the US supports Israel all they want. The bottom line is, Israel fought off attacks by eight Muslim countries whose combined land mass and population are 100 times greater than the Jewish state! And the Israelis don't even have the luxury of hiding behind a huge ocean strait like Taiwan does.
For Taiwan to compare itself to Israel, it has to stand on its own ground and tell China that it can defend itself without the direct military assistance of the US. When was the last time you heard the Israel lobby ask America to send troops into the West Bank or Televiv to defend her against the Muslims? so the Taiwan Lobby shouldn't flatter itself and claim to be in the same boat as Israel. Taiwan is not even in the same league as Israel.
The difference between Israel and Taiwan is not that any of the above. It is that Israel is a Jewish state while the rest of the Middle East is Arab; Taiwanese are Chinese ethnicly. They share the same language, culture and history as mainland Chinese.
An even bigger difference between Israel and Taiwan is that Israel established itself as a sovereign nation by fighting off attacks from the Arabs all by itself. The Israelis do not need America to send its military to help out if attacked again. Taiwan is NOT capable of defending itself against an attack from the mainland. The US will have to send troops to fight if it wants to help Taiwan.
In the end, the world today is the result of the power struggle of the major nations. Has nothing to do with human rights or freedom. The small and weak nations exist because the major powers agree they can. Plain and simple. Israel is one of the powers while Taiwan is one of the pawns that was allowed to exist. That is the difference folks. So don't fool yourself.
To
Dear Mr. Kin Ming Lue-
I am observing Very negative blogging and unfounded allegations are salvos-ed against Taiwan and Israel which is unfortunate and uncalled for. And for that reason I am compelled to express my views against Communist China and Theocratic Islamic states.
Lets start with China-
China as a nation, with great culture and heritage for last 6 to 7 thousand years and her civilization legacy can be compared with Indian civilization. But most unfortunate for present day Chinese, their ancient civilization, cultures and wisdom are thrown in to the Garbage of Communist dictatorship at Peking, who literally hijacked the soul of Mother China and converted them to bonded labours and slaves. To day in china- You don't see any human rights's existence, you don't see any civil rights, you don't see any Justice, no freedom of speech., Women are subjugated to various social tortures and social injustices and they are being degraded to Women- slave labour force, and commies pushed them forcefully to work in construction industries, to create SEZs to shine in the eyes of Wests and world at large? Commies' one child policy created a most destructive social imbalance in China's history., so M/F ratio now extremely skewed in favour of Male folks. As a result social instability and social resentment are growing. These commies have created a Monolithic Communist Evil Empire, on the basis of borrowed Philosophy and doctrine from Carl Marx, Lenin, and Bolsheviks, and that philosophy is now proved to be Unscientific, unworkable and Unsound. For that reason Russians have thrown it in their Dust beans.
Commies of China are not Patriotic or Nationalists, but living in a parasitic life styles and put on a mantle of Modernization and fast tract economic growth and back piping of so called democratic Tune. We know why Westerns are flocking in Your shinny SEZs? Because you have created such demographic changes to supply very down graded cheap labours comprising of of Displaced Peasants and women from Rural China??
Hello Commies!! You are behaving as Land-lords of bygone days [as Feudal Lords], You make Your subjects as Bonded labours, Created a despicable and extreme corrupt Bureaucrats, and official operatics, and internal security forces, there functions is to catch and kill the dissidents and HR activists. You have corrupted Your Judiciary system. Chinese Communists are creating a formidable War machine to cow down their Asian neighbours, and illegally grabbed their territories, Swallowed Tibet illegally, and destroyed Tibetan Civilization completely. Now these Chinese Commies are helping Terrorists, Taliban, Pakistanis and Iranians to weaken NATO and other Democratically elected Govt. of Small Asian countries?? So Chinese commies are acting like Marauding War lords?. But This Type of Commies' Behaviors will not be allowed to last long and totally unacceptable.
Best option for Chinese Communists to establish Multi-party systems, Uncorrupted Judiciary system, restore HR and Your WH situations. And final ward don't harbour any evil design or malicious intent against Taiwan, and don't forget your shining SEZ hallows are due to Bucks that flown from Taiwan.
What about ME Islamic states?? I only stating a news that flashed in CBS News last night:-
Riyadh 16th. Nov.2007. A nineteen years old Muslim women, received a Judgement from a Riyadh court and she received punishment of 200 lashes and 6 month Jail. Her sin or wrong doing?? Few months ago she was Brutally Raped by Six Riyadhi unknown Muslims youths, in a car [and these youths hijacked her car in first place], and she lodged a complain against this brutal acts. Court's argument was like this- According to strict Sharia law, The Muslim women should not be with unknown males on any circumstances. And That victim must be punished for violating sharia law, with or without knowing the law of the land. Phew... What a Islamic Judgement. So Dear disclaimers - better Tide your own houses, before you criticize Israel. God be merciful. Amen.
Well, there are some interesting parallels between Taiwan's situation and that of Israel. Both are now democracies (Taiwan only lifted martial law in the 1990s, though) and both are considered illegitimate states by large chunks of the world's population, and of course both are directly or indirectly supported by the U.S.
An important difference however is the geo-economics affecting each state. China is a growing economic power that has attracted investment and immigration from Taiwan; many of China's largest industrial concerns are run by and owned by Taiwanese businessmen. The Arab world shuns Israel and allows no cross-investment, even though Israel has much to offer the rest of the Middle East. For example, Israel could help the Arabs learn how to diversify away from oil dependency and turn their deserts into productive farms.
The fellow above who called Israel an occupying force disregards--or is ignorant of--Israel's internal situation. Arabs living inside Israel have full rights, except that most of them don't serve in the army. None of them seem eager to emigrate to a majority-Muslim state, either, and Arabs living in Jerusalem are said to oppose its re-partition into a Palestinian-administered area. It's remarkable how people with little knowledge or sympathy for the plight of any of the peoples of a region can hold such bitter and hateful opinions.
If people who are critical of Israel are called anti-semi, then all the china bashers in the US congress (and the sycophone media) are racist bigots...
Why is anyone who is critical of Israel is always immediately labelled an anti-semi. Why???????? Because the Jews tell everyone they are god's CHOSEN people - hence they are beyond reproach? Give me freaken break. You can belive whatever the hell you want, but I don't buy it... BTW, if you really believe the Torah, then the Jews were the first people to have committed genecide on record!!!!
Rick, Rick : I'm heading out of town for a meeting with Quinn. I fear your solution would be the "final solution ". Iran,Iraq,Syria,Lebanon, Saudia Arabia,Jordan,Egypt,assorted Arab gangs and Muslim volunteers, All brave souls,would decend upon Israel and kill her. Now Rick, Quinn and I cannot allow that to happen. You know thats not Kosher,Rick. Well, I will see you later.
The difference between Isreal and Chinese-Taiwan is Jewish people are a God fearing country and Taiwan is a corrupt country rules by the incompetent government. And most of all, many of the people in "Taiwan" are devil worshiping people. Jewish people will fight for their country's existing with their life with or without outside helps. By using loud noises and playing phony politic with the people would not fool anybody. "Taiwan people" will be united with the mainland people and the U.S. will not interfere at all in the near future. If "Taiwan people" deny they are Chinese, then let exodus start now. I recomand Imperial Japan.
"I only wish the Formosan Association for Public Affairs, a Taiwanese counterpart to the AIPAC, would become as effective and successful as their Jewish friends.".. This can never be the case unless you have an established Taiwanese population in US that is rich and as politically involved as the US Jewish population.
Force Israel to unilaterally destroy its planes, tanks and nuclear weapons and then see what happens? That sounds like a plan worthy of the Warsaw Ghetto and Nazi SS Commander Jurgen Stroop. Your ideas are very clear.
Ah, Taiwan, the ancessor of folks who stolen the emperor's money and famous from their boat people and their skyscrapers and their sick food ... they whishing more power to dictate 300 million with Western heritage? Sorry, not even Israel can do it well.
Loud and Vladi reveal their true antisemitism in their myopic focus on Israel and complete ignorance regarding history elsewhere. Taiwan DOES have an indigenous population of aborigines who HAVE suffered as second class citizens after Chinese Nationalists fled the mainland. You two need to get out of your antisemitic echo chamber and stop reading antisemitic websites and Mein Kampf.
Loud and Vladi reveal their true antisemitism in their myopic focus on Israel and complete ignorance regarding history elsewhere. Taiwan DOES have an indigenous population of aborigines who HAVE suffered as second class citizens after Chinese Nationalists fled the mainland. You two need to get out of your antisemitic echo chamber and stop reading antisemitic websites and Mein Kampf.
Democracy and aparthied don't belong in the same phrase. Let's call Israel for what it is - it's the most eregious human rights vilator and the most racist regime in the world today,
All Comments (61)
Mr. Nut trots out with another useless and recycled Taiwan independence "argument" from the 80's. He must have his head stuffed full of these.
As for FAPA? Their undue influence has waned with the growth of China and will continue to do so. In fact, where is FAPA these day? I think they must be in hibernation.
February 25, 2008 8:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 25, 2008 20:12
O GOVERNO AMERICANO AGIU A FAVOR DO POVO
QUEREM CRIAR UMA AMPLA RECESSÃO, DE QUALQUER JEITO
Pela primeira vez, em décadas, o Tesouro Americano deixou de tutelar, de fato, as sugestões e iniciativas dos grandes cartéis financeiros. E essa inesperada reação, com o anúncio de um pacote de medidas pelo governo americano, que não beneficia bancos, mas a economia do país e milhões de americanos, está acarretando, em cadeia,uma forte transformação no mercado financeiro mundial cartelizado.
O governo americano entendeu e outras nações também devem entender, que a fragilidade dos Bancos Centrais no monitoramento
do sistema financeiro, é que está causando tanta tempestade e rebordosa.
O mundo se cartelizou no sistema financeiro, no petróleo, nas bolsas de valores e de mercadorias e em uma dezena de outras atividades e os governantes das principais nações do mundo, ficaram escravos e impotentes para agirem na defesa dos interesses dos povos de suas nações.
E, agora, estamos vendo, com transparência,como o sistema financeiro agia em absoluta tranquilidade e, em, alguns casos, com irresponsabilidade total e impunidade que continua até hoje. E esse alvoroço todo só tem um culpado, o próprio sistema financeiro, sofisticado, competente, ágil e se comunicando para iniciativas de um mesmo comando e On line.Por outro lado, os Bancos Centrais não foram capazes de acompanhar e de monitorar essa evolução que beneficia milhares, em detrimento de bilhões de pessoas.
Os cartéis estão tentando, de todas as formas, um maior envolvimento do Tesouro americano, com a crise que os próprios bancos criarem, alimentarem e se beneficiaram dela, auferindo lucros de alguns bilhões de dólares. Agora, terão que voltar ao mundo real,entendendo que o dinheiro de bilhões de pessoas não pode mais ser transferido para milhares de pessoas da especulação volátil, improdutiva, sem custo, mas com sacrificio e a troco de que ou de quem ?
Uma nova paginação para os Bancos Centrais e para o sistema financeiro é imperativa, urgente e passa necessariamente por profundas transformações, benéficas para as Contas do Tesouro de países pobres e ricos, totalmente factíveis e de efeito imediato, dependendo apenas da vontade política das Nações.
Como os cartéis que atuam em todas as áreas, estão cada vez mais fortes e os governos cada vez mais fracos para enfrentá-los, basta simplesmente a criação do Cartel do Povo,via Tratado ou qualquer outro instrumento, através dos governantes do G-20, para defender os direitos de mais de 6 bilhões de pessoas, apenas limitando o ágio, acima da inflação, a um porcentual máximo de 3%, para rolagem ou assunção de dividas. É uma iniciativa de efeito multiplicador, democrática, capitalista e de cunho também profundamente social e que pode gerar economia de mais de USD 1 trilhão para os cofres de países ricos e pobres e os matemáticos podem confirmar. E com isso, com certeza, não haverá mais a necessidade da costumeira democratização de lucros e da socialização de prejuízos( em nome do mercado livre) e o mundo viverá em tranquilidade para gerar mais riquezas e reduzir as gritantes desigualdades entre nações ricas e nações pobres e para extinguir a categoria de indigentes. Em consequencia, a vergonhosa ratificação estatística de que somente 2% da população mundial responde por 50% da riquezas, será compulsoriamente reduzida, ano a ano. E o Brasil, que assumirá, em poucos dias, a Presidencia Financeira do G-20, poderá entrar para a história das nações, se conseguir criar esse Cartel que defenderá os interesses de bilhões de pessoas, para que tenham condições dígnas de vida.
Quanto ao sistema financeiro, que ganhou muito com as Letras Hipotecárias, em Investimentos de alto risco e ainda acumula lucros de bilhões de dólares nos últimos cinco anos, é natural que devolva agora parte dessa gordura que está bem localizada e que não levará o paciente à UTI. E países como o Brasil, devem refletir,com calma, sobre a importancia da iniciativa do governo americano ao cortar o cordão umbilical atado ao pernicuioso protecionismo ao capital especutivo mundial. Essa corrente americana começou e deve continuar e se fortalecer, mesmo com as fortes pressões de todos os lados, porque está no correto caminho de defender bilhões para não continuar privilegiando somente milhares de pessoas. O capitalismo de hoje nunca mais será o capitalismo perverso de ontem, felizmente.Esperamos que o presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, não deixe que o noticiário da imprensa mundial e dirigido, atrapalhe a tragetória de queda da Selic, em decorrencia das frágeis argumentações. Façamos uma corrente prá frente, Brasil.E PARA ONDE IRA OU ESTÁ INDO ESSE CAPITAL APÁTRICA DE TRILHÕES DE DÓLARES ?
January 22, 2008 10:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 22, 2008 10:59
Question for the group:
Why does the US continue to give the Israelis billions of dollars in foreign aid each year, even though we can’t afford it and have to borrow the money from the Chinese (plus interest)?
I don’t know either unless it’s because AIPAC owns our congress, senate and executive branches of government.
November 26, 2007 1:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 26, 2007 13:28
From AP, a glimpse of the life of the Palestinian Refugee in Jordan:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/J/JORDAN_REFUGEES_VOTE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-11-19-12-30-17
November 19, 2007
Palestinian Refugees Vote in Jordan
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 12:30 p.m. ET
BAQAA CAMP, Jordan (AP) -- Election time is a unique moment for Palestinian refugees in Jordan: A chance to try to improve their lot in their adopted land and press their dreams of returning to homes in what is now Israel.
Some in this squalid camp, where frustration and poverty are widespread, see little use in voting in Tuesday's parliamentary elections. But unlike Palestinian refugees elsewhere in the Middle East, refugees here at least have a voice -- Jordan is the only Arab nation that has given them the right to vote…
''We want all the perks and rights offered to Jordanian citizens,'' said Wael al-Sharif, a 40-year-old contractor who lives in Baqaa, home to 120,000 refugees, where raw sewage flows into the alleyway, creating an acrid stench as barefoot children play.
''We want to get on with our lives until we return to our long lost homeland,'' he said.
The refugees, Palestinians who lost their homes in 1948 and their descendants, say they are relegated to second-class status in Jordan.
They say government jobs, particularly in the royal palace, the foreign and interior ministries, army and intelligence are closed to them. So is the free university education offered to the Bedouin tribes who form the bedrock of support for Jordan's King Abdullah II.
The so-called ''1948 Palestinians'' who make up 1.9 million of Jordan's 5.5 million population, live mostly in 10 impoverished camps around the country, relying on U.N. aid -- a condition that imposes a degree of segregation from the rest of the population. Frustration among camp youth provides fertile ground for Islamic extremists.
An additional 800,000 Palestinians who fled their homes in the West Bank in the 1967 Middle East war are more integrated into the society because they lived under Jordanian rule between 1950 and 1967, when Israel seized the land.
The 1948 Palestinians have about 10 percent of parliament's 110 seats, a proportion they are expected to maintain after Tuesday's vote -- though they note that it doesn't reflect their 34 percent of the population…
November 20, 2007 8:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 20:22
From today’s WP:
Analysis: Mideast Peace As Tough As Ever
By STEVEN GUTKIN
The Associated Press
Saturday, November 17, 2007; 1:43 PM
JERUSALEM -- Years of negotiations have already revealed the only workable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, sizable majorities on both sides want peace and the cost of failure is clear: a victory for Hamas and its patron, Iran.
Yet despite what appear to be ideal conditions for relaunching peace talks, the two sides are finding it as difficult as ever to get to work _ bogged down by domestic weakness, mutual distrust and the growing influence of extremists...
In recent days, the two sides have disagreed heatedly over a fresh Israeli demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state. And Palestinian negotiators said Israel's offer to partially freeze settlement construction and release a few hundred prisoners before Annapolis falls far short of their expectations...
Palestinians fear that Israeli "facts on the ground" _ expanding West Bank settlements, far-flung Jewish outposts, a massive separation barrier jutting deep into Palestinian territory _ have eroded prospects for a viable Palestinian state.
After the past six years of bloodshed killed more than 4,400 Palestinians and 1,100 Israelis, the sides are again coming together for peace talks _ a paradoxical consequence of Hamas' Gaza takeover, which led to the creation of a moderate West Bank government viewed as a credible negotiating partner by Israel and the West...
The stakes also seem higher now than before, especially with Hamas and Iran ready to pounce on failure as a way to bolster Mideast extremists. But with Hamas in control of Gaza and Olmert plagued by a series of corruption probes, the Israeli and Palestinian leaders are likely to have a difficult time mustering the strength and support needed to achieve a peace deal.
Though talks at Camp David and Taba failed, they did sketch what many still see as the only way out of the last six decades of conflict:
_ A non-militarized Palestinian state would be created based on Israeli frontiers before the 1967 Mideast War. Israel would keep most of its so-called settlement blocs where some 80 percent of its West Bank settlers reside. In exchange, Palestinians would be compensated for such land with equal amounts of Israeli territory.
_ Jerusalem would be the capital of both states, with Arab sections going to Palestine and Jewish neighborhoods to Israel. The deal would include a delicate power-sharing arrangement for the Old City, with each side controlling its respective holy sites.
_ Palestinian refugees who lost their homes when Israel was created in 1948 would get financial compensation and resettlement assistance, and Israel would offer some acknowledgment of their suffering.
_ An international presence in Israel/Palestine would help monitor implementation of the deal.
The proposed solution entails bitter pills for each side. The Palestinians would have to give up their dream of having all refugees return to cities or villages inside Israel, and Israel would have to relinquish its long-standing demand to keep all of Jerusalem...
"The devil lies in the details," he said. "It's a big devil."
Polls show a majority of Palestinians and Israelis now favoring the establishment of a Palestinian state on territory captured by Israel in 1967. Yet overcoming the historical stumbling blocks _ the religious attachments to the Holy Land, the shadow of the Holocaust on the Israeli psyche, Palestinians' deep-seated sense of victimhood _ will never be easy.
Shortly after the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian fighting in 2001, President Clinton gave a speech in which he said the choices facing Israelis and Palestinians would remain the same, regardless of "whether they come today or after several years of heartbreak and bloodshed."
"The parties will face the same history, the same geography, the same neighbors, the same passions, the same hatreds," he said. "This is not a problem time will take care of."
November 20, 2007 4:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 16:02
From today’s WP:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/19/AR2007111900716_pf.html
High-level Saudi presence seen unlikely at Annapolis
By Andrew Hammond
Reuters
Monday, November 19, 2007; 11:23 AM
RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia could keep the United States guessing until the last minute on whether it will attend a Middle East peace conference next week, but analysts and diplomats say a high-level delegation is unlikely.
Saudi Arabia -- a key U.S. ally whose presence would give a major boost to the U.S.-sponsored November 26-27 summit in Annapolis, Maryland -- has said it will attend only if core issues are tackled at the latest in a line of high-profile Arab-Israeli meetings dating back to Madrid in 1992.
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal declined to speak on the issue, telling reporters on Sunday: "The Arab countries will meet on November 22 and the Arab position will be fixed then." He was referring to an Arab foreign ministers meeting at the Arab League in Cairo...
They said Riyadh fears that without clear results on a peace deal, the conference could play into the hands of Iran, whose growing regional influence has alarmed U.S. and Saudi leaders.
"People here would rather not see the conference take place than for it to happen and come to nothing. That would reinforce Iran and weaken Abbas," one diplomat said.
In Riyadh for an OPEC summit this week Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attacked Arabs who attend.
"Those who plan to go there -- who will they represent? The people of Palestine have not given them permission to represent them," he told a news conference.
November 20, 2007 3:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 15:27
Good morning TT,
I found the poll results interesting so thought I would share them. Even though they are from pro-Israeli sites, I have no reason to doubt them. I knew that most Americans favored the Israeli side of the conflict, and wondered what the numbers were.
They are not all that surprising I think: 59% sympathize with Israelis, 15% sympathize with Palestinians and 26% have no opinion. Since the more people pay attention, the more they sympathize with the Israelis; I think that the analysis by some that the “terrorist” attacks on civilians by suicide bombers are largely responsible. People fail to realize that this is just the only response left to the Palestinians who have been unjustly displaced from their homes. The Israeli civilians and settlers are actually foot soldiers in a battle to the death against the displaced rightful owners of their land.
I think that other factors are at work, like political/religious and cultural factors. Democrats and independents are roughly neutral on the subject, while 77% of Republicans sympathize with Israelis. Ah, that explains it; the same people who gave us George W. Bush are also giving us a pro-Israeli bias.
I think that religious/cultural influences play a strong role. It is telling that the mainly secular Europeans side with the underdog Palestinians, while the mainly religious U.S. sides with Israel. Most of us identify with the Old Testament stories of Adam and Eve, Noah and the Ark, Jonah and the Whale, David and Goliath, etc. David and Goliath is a particularly apt one considering tiny Israel being perceived as the underdog David fighting the giant Goliath Arab League of Nations; when actually the opposite is the case with the world’s only superpower giving the Israelis unconditional support (for the moment).
Ignorance of the history of the conflict has a lot to do with the poll results I think. Most, unlike you and I, are unaware of the manner in which the land was taken from its rightful owners (in my opinion) and transferred to the illegal and unwanted Zionist immigrants.
A parallel case might be if a powerful alien invader were to decide that we were not the rightful owners of the good ole U.S. of A., and decided to return everything west of the Mississippi to the Mexicans and Native Americans. They would have a much more valid case to make, since we have only occupied this land for less than two hundred years, whereas the Arabs had occupied Palestine for almost two millennia.
Oh well, “things” are about to change dramatically I think. The coming energy wars, the $100 per barrel (and rising) cost of oil, and our $10 Trillion (and rising) national debt is about to cool our enthusiasm for financing our colonialist ambitions by borrowing from the Chinese. If not, the Chinese and oil exporting nations will dictate terms to us on just about any matter of their choosing.
Thanks for the posts.
November 20, 2007 9:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 09:00
Most Americans support Israel in her war against Palestinian Islamic terrorists
Gallup has published a poll that clearly shows that a large majority of the American people supports Israel in their war against Palestinian Islamic terrorists:
http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000832.html
...“Increased Sympathy for the Israelis
Gallup's long-standing trend question on the Middle East, first measured in 1988, asks Americans whether their sympathies in the conflict lie more with the Israelis or the Palestinians. As has typically been the case, Americans are much more likely to sympathize with the Israelis (59%) than with the Palestinians (15%), with the remaining 26% not taking either side or not having an opinion. The current figures represent one of the most lopsided margins in favor of the Israelis ever recorded by Gallup. The only other times sympathy has been this high were during the first Persian Gulf War in February 1991 (when Iraq was launching Scud missiles into Israeli territory) and shortly before the start of the second war with Iraq, in February 2003 (58%). In 2004 and 2005, sympathy toward the Palestinians, though still low, was as high as it has been historically (18%).
Republicans (77%) are significantly more likely to sympathize with the Israelis than are Democrats (50%) or independents (50%). Gallup also finds that Americans who say they follow news about world affairs "very closely" are more likely to sympathize with the Israelis (66%) than Americans who follow foreign news only somewhat closely (59%) or who do not follow it closely (52%).
Gallup's World Affairs Poll also obtains basic favorable ratings of a variety of countries each year, including Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The new poll finds 68% of Americans saying they have a favorable opinion of Israel, including 21% who are "very favorable" toward it. Twenty-three percent view Israel unfavorably. Those numbers are essentially unchanged from last year, and are the most positive for Israel aside from a 79% favorable rating in February 1991 during the first Persian Gulf War.
In stark contrast, just 11% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the Palestinian Authority, while 78% have an unfavorable view (29% say their view is "very unfavorable"). Last year, opinion was considerably more positive, with 27% favorable and 62% unfavorable. In fact, the current readings are the most negative Gallup has found since it began asking about the Palestinian Authority in 2000, while last year's were the most positive...”
November 20, 2007 8:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 08:54
Why Americans Support Israel And Europeans Don`t
http://www.netanyahu.org/whyamsupisan.html
Posted 5/15/2002
By Glenn M. Frazier
"Glenn M. Frazier is a freelance writer and editor of GlennFrazier.com."
“The European bureautocracy is shocked by the American stance toward Israel. The common views outside the United States range from seeing Israel as an oppressor state — some say "terrorist" — to the milder "well, both sides are guilty, but Israel is stronger."...
In a poll taken by the Pew Research Center in early April, the growing transatlantic gap in opinions on the Israel-Palestine conflict was confirmed. According to the poll, most people on the continent (France 63 per cent, Germany 63 per cent, Italy 51 per cent) disapprove of current U.S. policies with regard to the Middle East, while only 26 per cent of Americans themselves polled said they "disapprove".
Further, when asked to choose sides between Israel and the Palestinians, most Europeans either primarily sided with the Palestinians (France 36 per cent, Great Britain 28 per cent), or selected "neither" (Germany 33 per cent, Italy 32 per cent). Most Americans, on the other hand, placed their sympathies with Israel (41 per cent), with 21 per cent saying "neither" and only 13 per cent choosing the Palestinians. (Interestingly, in every country surveyed, those sympathizing with "both" were outnumbered by those choosing "neither.")...
President Bush`s popularity is in large part due to the great gift he brought us in September: moral clarity.”...
[Obviously this is an old document (May 2002)]
“As idealistic as many Americans are when it comes to notions of right and wrong, we are deeply, deeply cynical when it comes to words and ideas. We are the "show-me" nation. And that`s one more reason the notion of a conspiratorial Jewish Controlled Media is so silly to the average American. Who trusts the media?!...
This, in the end, is the great divide between Europe and the U.S.: We believe nothing, they believe in nothing.”
November 20, 2007 8:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 08:49
TT
I harbor no hatred toward any country and Israel in particular...
"you are incredibly misinformed and ignorant in regard to what is going on in the rest of the world". Actually, I think I'm quite well informed. I'm well aware of what's going on in Darfur, and I feel for the Darfuris as much as I feel for the Palestinians. My compassion and outrage are not selective, unlike the writer of this article. But I digress... Anyway, there are plenty of people who have been very vocal in their criticism of Sudanese government, and they can do so without ever worrying about being labeled as anti-sudanese bigot. Yet whenever someone criticize the Israeli government for its inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people, they are instantly labeled as anti-semitic. Can you tell me why that is? If you have an answer for it, I love to hear it. If not, then say so, I won't think any less of you.
November 20, 2007 1:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 01:57
Vladi,
Help me understand your motivation. Is it human rights in general or is it just Israel that elicits your hatred?
If it is human rights then I can only assume you are incredibly misinformed and ignorant in regard to what is going on in the rest of the world. No one who is serious about human rights could state as you have, that Israel is currently the most egregious human rights violator in the world--especially in light of what is taking place in Darfur and Burma to name a few.
November 20, 2007 12:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 00:31
From today’s WP:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/19/AR2007111900213_pf.html
Olmert acts to bolster Abbas before meeting
By Jeffrey Heller
Reuters
Monday, November 19, 2007; 8:29 AM
“JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sought wide Arab support on Monday for a U.S.-led peace conference by agreeing to release 441 Palestinian prisoners and reaffirming a pledge not to build new Jewish settlements....
Olmert did not say in earlier remarks to his cabinet if he would freeze construction within existing settlements in the occupied West Bank, as sought by the Palestinians and the United States. A senior Palestinian negotiator, latching on to the uncertainty, called Olmert's comments "nonsense."...
In addition, settlers have set up several dozen hilltop outposts without government approval.
Olmert repeated at the cabinet session a long-standing promise to remove the outposts, but again set no date.
In a gesture to Abbas, he also won cabinet approval to release 441 Palestinian prisoners, a government official said.
All were members of Abbas's Fatah faction "without blood on their hands" and could go free as early as Friday after a review of a release list by a ministerial committee, the official said. Abbas had wanted 2,000 freed...
SAUDI PARTICIPATION
Saudi Arabia, which has not said whether it would attend the November 26-27 conference, had demanded a "freeze of settlements" before the meeting. It was unclear whether Olmert's remarks would go far enough to persuade Riyadh to participate.
"What Olmert announced today is nonsense," senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said. "Olmert has to understand he either declares a full settlement freeze in all occupied areas including East Jerusalem, or it's nothing."
The road map calls for a freeze to "all settlement activity," including "natural growth," a reference to building in existing settlements to accommodate growing families.
"If Olmert does not halt 'natural growth' then nothing has changed," said Nabil Abu Rdainah, an Abbas aide.
About 270,000 Jewish settlers live among 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians. The World Court has branded all settlements on land captured by Israel in a 1967 war as illegal.
Abbas's chief negotiator said Israeli and Palestinian teams had failed to make progress on a pre-conference joint document that would address in general terms core issues such as borders and the future of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.
In a surprise announcement, Olmert's office said the prime minister planned to go to Egypt on Tuesday for talks with President Hosni Mubarak.
His trip appeared to be part of efforts to ensure broad Arab participation in the Annapolis meeting, a launching pad for formal talks on Palestinian statehood. Arab League foreign ministers meet in Cairo on Friday to decide whether to attend...
November 19, 2007 10:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 10:22
TT
"Bringing things like the Torah and "god's chosen people" into this... You obviously have some personal issues with the jews."
I have no personal issues with the Jews. I'm just wondering why anyone who dares to criticize the brutal treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli government are immediately labeled as anti-semi. And I'm postulating that maybe it's because the Jews are "god's chosen people", and therefore their actions are beyond the reproach of us mere mortals? Maybe only god has the authority to rebuke the Jews (as he has often done in the old testament time). BTW, do you consider god anti-semi, since his punishments seemed to be rather harsh.
As for my comment about Jews committing genocide, well, I don't know how else to describe what they did to the tribes that lived in the "promise land" before the Jews got there. When a group of people is subject to wholesale slaughter, because of their religion or tribal identity, isn't that the definition of genocide.
November 18, 2007 8:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 20:41
Freedom babes : I am familar with US History; the source of your Israeli history is somewhat distorted. I know of no UN report that claims Israel drove over 4million Palestinians out of their homes. The exact amount of Palestinians who LEFT Israel is unkown. The Arabs claim their children and their children's children are refugees. In fact most LEFT during 1948 when they and Egypt,Jordan,Lebanon, Syria,Saudi Arabia,Iraq,and sundrey Arab volunters failed to kill off all the Jews. I am however, familar with roughly 800,000 Arabic Jews driven out of Arab countries who settled in Israel. I must say our Indian bros. were treated quite poorly.
November 18, 2007 8:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 20:39
Freedom
Territory and the exercise of power are emotional issues. There is no predicting what the Chinese will do.
Taiwanese politicians have an easy mass appeal subject when it comes to speaking of independence, etc.
The truth is that the Taiwanese and Chinese economies are a lot more interdependent than most people realize. Taiwanese businessmen routinely travel to China.
It is the undercurrent of uncertainty accompanied by immense power that is cause for concern. Even if the US levied economic sanctions which is about all we could do, given our reliance on China, that will be short-lived and the Chinese will get over it.
As for your comment:
>
Well, I buy the more conventional thesis that Ronald Reagan outspent the Soviet Union into oblivion. Of course, we will never know to what extent Gorbachev and Yeltsin accelerated the process because they saw that it made sense.
Putin doesn't seem to think it makes sense to let everything go.
Anyhow, thanks for the comments and I hope you are right in your optimism.
November 18, 2007 5:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 17:35
A. Handle:
I believe, maybe naively, that there will be peaceful solutions to all these conflicts in the world. The only thing is that human beings may not have enough intelligence to avoid them.
Arrogance has always driven us to conflicts and human suffering. George W. Bush and his neocons were too arrogant to realize that the low-tech Iraqis are capable of and determined enough to drag the mighty US miliatry into a quackmire. It does look like the Chinse leadership sees that Taiwan may be another Iraq if China is to attacked unprovoked. But if Taiwan is to declare independence, then Beijing has no choice but to act militarily just to keep its legitimacy as the government of China. The determination of the Taiwanese to keep their automomy is only matched by the determination of the mainlanders to resolve their own internal issues on their own terms, especially when it comes to sovereignty. Nobody should underestimate a determined people.
There will be a time in the future, when the people across the Taiwan Strait will be able to sit down as friends and as equals to calmly discuss the status of Taiwan in relation to China. Tibetans may someday be allowed to choose whether they want to stay with China. In the same spirit, Native Americans may one day decide to establish a sovereign country (not tiny reservations) of their own in Florida or Alaska, and other Americans will understand. Muslims may also welcome Israelis as fellow good neighbors. Time is the key. Who in 1943 America would have thought that their bitter enemy, the Japanese and Germans, could become their close allies?
The United States won the Cold War not because she has better weapons or more allies than the Soviet Union. It is because she showed the Russians and Eastern Europeans what they could've achieved had they not been practicing a planned economy. Today's China is more capitalistic than even the US in many respect. The persue of happiness, as stated in the American Constitution, is the driving force behind humans to understand each other. If the US and her allies cannot convince Chinese people that their way of life is far better, then they can't achieve it by brute force, as that "Rationlist" character is proposing.
The arrogant foreign policies practiced by post-Cold War administrations of the US has finally met its demise in Iraq. It's time to go back to the game of winning hearts and minds for the major powers like the US and China, and maybe we as a species have a chance of not destroying ourselves. That is what I consider true FREEDOM.
November 18, 2007 4:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 16:58
Freedom
I don't disagree with anything you write so seriously as to want to dissect it bit by bit.
However, it is not clear to me that China is satisfied with maintaining the status quo indefinitely. Obviously, independence is a radical step away from the Mainlanders' notion that Taiwan remains a part of China.
It has been quite some time since the Taiwanese were disabused of the notion that they were the sole spokespersons for all China.
As a practical matter, the US had to, at some point, abandon the charade about China's role in the Security Council, etc.
What is remarkable is that in the 21st Century, anyone could think that it makes a bit of difference to Chinese identity and dignity whether Taiwan is formally declared a part of the mainland or not.
Sometimes, the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach makes a lot of sense.
However, I am sure that superior minds like Koko or Joko or whatever his name was - that I can't see now while posting this - will enlighten us as to what history has already happened 2 or 3 years from now.
November 18, 2007 3:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:52
Kojo
You ask in respect of my question posed to Freedom: "'And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?'
Is that a rhetorical question?"
Well, I'll tell you what smart guy who tells me that I am ignorant without ever having met me or spoken with me, you figure this one out. I suspect that anyone who has finished 10th grade knows what this particular rhetorical illustrative device is called.
"Just who exactly does china need to get permission from to take over Taiwan?"
Right now, no one because no one has the ability to stop any such action. It is for Chinese leaders to determine whether such a move makes sense in the modern world. On the one hand they have the horrible results of their own experience with Tibet - a takeover that has achieved nothing other than the satisfaction of saying a land about the size of a condominium development in the overall context of China, is Chinese.
On the other hand, they have the experience of Hong Kong - a more or less, and getting less each day autonomous area, but make no mistake, it's all about money. And that's where Taiwan stands out.
"You are as ignorant of Chinese history as you are of jewish hisotry. well, let me enlighten you."
Thank you for the enlightenment, oh wise one. How did you know that you are a superior intellect? I mean really, how did you come to decide that when you were going to "enlighten" me about "history" you would be writing about what is going to happen in the "future" as opposed to what unskilled and unenlightened minds like mine perceive to be the meaning of "history" as being what HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
See, here is what you wrote about HISTORY:
"Taiwan is the last vestige of Chinese civil war. And the Chinese will decide the timing and manner in the which their war will be finished. Should the US government be duped by the Taiwan lobby, and compeplled to join the fight, it'll make the Iraq imbroglio look like a walk in the park... Sooner or later, the US governmFent and the US congress will realize what a folly the TRA has been and repeal it."
Yes, you are absolutely correct that I am ignorant. Obviously, I was ignorant about the meaning of the word "history."
Thanks for the enlightenment, genius.
November 18, 2007 3:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:42
Rationalist:
India lost in the War with China in 1962, which she provoked. I know it's eating Indians up from the inside, but deal with it. There are winners and losers in this world. Winners only do and losers only talk. You Indians know nothing but talk. The British rule India for two centuries and you are still bragging about it. Japan lost the war to the US and she quietly built herself back to the top. Until this day Japan doesn't claim that she will be a superpower by 2010 or 2020, neither does China, but Indians are already telling the whole world exactly that. What a loser!
November 18, 2007 3:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:16
Incredible some bloggers are suffering from a Syndrome called " Self deluding Hallucination", that appears to be incurable for them. These Guys are presumably brain-washed by their Peking musters. They still feel that they can ensue a " MAO type Long March" and grab and chew any nation they like"? However they have to realize that this is 21st. Century, and lots of water flown through Yangtze river and world changes around them unrecognizably, But these MAO type communists and their slavish followers are stuck in their own mind sets of "Hegemony", from where they have no escape.
The ASEAN Nations are well aware of china- Commies' well planned evil design, and ASEAN-s are well prepared for that. For Commie's information only- ASEAN-s and America recently have joined in a Forum to chalk out a future plan to establish an Army cum Naval forces - militarized corridor that will placate Commies' intended "Preemptive Strike" on Taiwan [Vietnam and probably on India]? In the meantime Taiwanese are receiving short and medium range Ballistic Missiles, that means if commies do strike Taiwan, on retaliatory measures, China's few shining SEZ zones and glittering Modernized Cities could be evaporated.
For further informations for Peking's commies only- The nuclear defence deal between India and America is on final stage. What is the purpose of this Nuke-deal? Within Year and half time- anti missile Defence system will be operational, and few number of AMDs will be setup inside Indian territories, specially near IndoChina border. Recent Modernized and mechanised Indian Naval fleets are regularly patrolling on Indian ocean, Malacca strait, and south China sea up to Taiwan coast. And rest is looked after by Seventh Fleet. So dear commies what all these are about??
The main purpose of all these to give protection to Taiwan, and don't make any mistake about it.
We know that China is buying huge amount of latest Military and Naval hard wares from Russia, and very recently she received a Nuclear Sub. from Russia. We also know that Russia herself is not happy about Peking's motive. So Russia and America + ASEANs are coming together to block China's any expanding tendency. So Please desist from being unnecessary boastfulness, better apply some sobering thoughts.
November 18, 2007 2:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 14:40
A. Handle: I am glad that you ask some intelligent questions, unlike thos who keep shouting rhetorics.
My point is that the Tibetans were no more oppressed than Native Americans or Palestinians or many other people in the world. To use Tibet or any history as an excuse for Taiwan's independence is nothing but rhetoric.
Taiwan had been a part of China for over 2 hundred years. The inhabitants on the island are 95% Chinese. No matter what the United States say or do, Chinese people on the mainland and many in Taiwan still feel they are one people and should be reunited.
The issue is not whether Taiwan should go back to China at this time. China has made it clear that she is willing to keep the status quo, which is neither reunification nor independence. The Taiwanese government on the other hand, wants to declare formal independence knowing that war is the only outcome.
The worst part of this is that unlike Israel, Taiwan is not capable of fighting off China by herself. That is why Kin-ming Liu is here lobbying Americans to send their sons and daughters to fight for Taiwan's independence.
I support Israel's existence as a nation. I think the Israelis earned their place in the world against overwhelming odds. But Israel should, and must, for its own continuing existence, try more to make peace with the Arab world. The point is not to change the hatred of Muslims toward Israel, but to show the world, especially the other major powers like Europe, Russia, China and India, that Israel is not the trouble maker. That goes a long way to help her cause and peace in the Middle East. The United States alone may not be enough to support Israel forever, or even much longer.
Remember this huge difference between Israel and Taiwan. The Muslim world wants to drive all Jews out of Israel while China only wants Taiwan to return in name. Taiwan's government, institutions, economic system and even military can stay unchanged. And China is willing to wait until Taiwan changes its mind. Try asking the Muslims to wait peacefully for the Jews to leave Israel.
Compared to Israel as Liu is trying to do, the Taiwanese government is just a whiny little baby milking the good will of America for everything it needs to stay in power.
November 18, 2007 1:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 13:37
"And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?"
Is that a rhetorical question? Just who exactly does china need to get permission from to take over Taiwan? You are as ignorant of Chinese history as you are of jewish hisotry. well, let me enlighten you. Taiwan is the last vestige of Chinese civil war. And the Chinese will decide the timing and manner in the which their war will be finished. Should the US government be duped by the Taiwan lobby, and compeplled to join the fight, it'll make the Iraq imbroglio look like a walk in the park... Sooner or later, the US government and the US congress will realize what a folly the TRA has been and repeal it.
November 18, 2007 12:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 12:13
So, Freedom, if we accept the accuracy of your numbers, your point is that 6 million Israelis should now be driven from their homes?
And China should be allowed to physically take over Taiwan?
Should all modern day Americans be required to leave the territory of the US? Who'd go to the casinos?
I don't know enough about the history of how Israel was created, and sometimes think all I have is anecdotal information. It'd take far more time than I have to study the subject in detail.
However, it is clear that the transition process has been badly mangled by all sides. I've commented on this in other posts.
Richard Cohen who is a columnist for the Post wrote some months ago that the creation of Israel was probably a mistake. I assume he means in the Middle East.
What I can say is that for as long as other countries threaten to destroy Israel, there will be no peace.
How much better for them to get together and build homes, schools, factories, power plants, and infrastructure for the Palestinians in a viable state? Might give them a stake in something to build and enhance.
November 18, 2007 11:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 11:21
Pale Rider:
The Native American population in the modern-day US went from 12 million in 1500 to 237 thousand in 1900. Ever heard of the Indian Removal Act of 1830? 100,000 Native Indians were driven out of their homes at gun point and marched west. Many of them died on the way. Four thousand Cherokees perished on the Trail of Tears.
According to the UN, 4.6 million Palestineans were driven out of their homes by Israel to become refugees.
November 18, 2007 1:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 01:34
Freedom : No. Please explain.
November 18, 2007 12:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 00:18
Take a look at what the US did to the native Indians.
Take a look at what the Israelis did to the Palestinians.
See the similarity?
November 17, 2007 9:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 21:52
Hmmm... let me see.
People who represent oil interests lobby on energy policy. So do people in the electric and gas and ethanol spheres.
People who represent health insurance companies, and people who represent pharmas and people who represent hospitals and people who represent physicians and people who represent nurses, lobby on health care policy.
People lobby about transportation, tort reform, class actions, women's rights, pets...
agricultural subsidies, tobacco, faith based stuff, education,
free trade, foreign trade, nuclear energy, hydroelectric power ...
hmmm... this is how a democracy works. It's got good and bad aspects.
People who are interested in Israel lobby for Israeli interests.
People who are interested in Saudi Arabia lobby for Saudi Arabian interests.
People lobby for Islamic causes.
When we don't like the outcome, we can either criticize the lobbyists or lobby on our own to change the result.
Take a look at what China did to Tibet.
Take a look at what Ahmadinejad and the Supreme Leader of Iran said they will do to Israel.
The author of this piece has a point.
You may not like his position, but he makes a lot of sense.
November 17, 2007 7:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 19:47
Mr Liu writes - "As a strong supporter of Taiwan, I have no choice but to lend my support to Israel as well"... Here's a guy who who harps on any chinese human rights violation, real or imagined. And yet he's completely oblivious to the unspeakable pain and suffering of the palestinian people. Where's your outrage, where's your compassion? Whether Mr Liu's criticism of China is base on ulterior motives or self-loathing, it's certainly not based on moral principle.
November 17, 2007 7:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 19:36
Based on your raving and ranting, "Rationalist" is obviously an anti-chinese racist bigot.
November 17, 2007 7:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 19:09
In case I wasn't clear, here is the truth about Taiwan.
Israel earned its right to exist and even thrive in the Middle East on their own strength. The Muslims can keep whining about how the US supports Israel all they want. The bottom line is, Israel fought off attacks by eight Muslim countries whose combined land mass and population are 100 times greater than the Jewish state! And the Israelis don't even have the luxury of hiding behind a huge ocean strait like Taiwan does.
For Taiwan to compare itself to Israel, it has to stand on its own ground and tell China that it can defend itself without the direct military assistance of the US. When was the last time you heard the Israel lobby ask America to send troops into the West Bank or Televiv to defend her against the Muslims? so the Taiwan Lobby shouldn't flatter itself and claim to be in the same boat as Israel. Taiwan is not even in the same league as Israel.
November 17, 2007 6:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 18:15
The difference between Israel and Taiwan is not that any of the above. It is that Israel is a Jewish state while the rest of the Middle East is Arab; Taiwanese are Chinese ethnicly. They share the same language, culture and history as mainland Chinese.
An even bigger difference between Israel and Taiwan is that Israel established itself as a sovereign nation by fighting off attacks from the Arabs all by itself. The Israelis do not need America to send its military to help out if attacked again. Taiwan is NOT capable of defending itself against an attack from the mainland. The US will have to send troops to fight if it wants to help Taiwan.
In the end, the world today is the result of the power struggle of the major nations. Has nothing to do with human rights or freedom. The small and weak nations exist because the major powers agree they can. Plain and simple. Israel is one of the powers while Taiwan is one of the pawns that was allowed to exist. That is the difference folks. So don't fool yourself.
November 17, 2007 5:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 17:37
Vladi,
Bringing things like the Torah and "god's chosen people" into this... You obviously have some personal issues with the jews.
November 17, 2007 12:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 12:37
To
Dear Mr. Kin Ming Lue-
I am observing Very negative blogging and unfounded allegations are salvos-ed against Taiwan and Israel which is unfortunate and uncalled for. And for that reason I am compelled to express my views against Communist China and Theocratic Islamic states.
Lets start with China-
China as a nation, with great culture and heritage for last 6 to 7 thousand years and her civilization legacy can be compared with Indian civilization. But most unfortunate for present day Chinese, their ancient civilization, cultures and wisdom are thrown in to the Garbage of Communist dictatorship at Peking, who literally hijacked the soul of Mother China and converted them to bonded labours and slaves. To day in china- You don't see any human rights's existence, you don't see any civil rights, you don't see any Justice, no freedom of speech., Women are subjugated to various social tortures and social injustices and they are being degraded to Women- slave labour force, and commies pushed them forcefully to work in construction industries, to create SEZs to shine in the eyes of Wests and world at large? Commies' one child policy created a most destructive social imbalance in China's history., so M/F ratio now extremely skewed in favour of Male folks. As a result social instability and social resentment are growing. These commies have created a Monolithic Communist Evil Empire, on the basis of borrowed Philosophy and doctrine from Carl Marx, Lenin, and Bolsheviks, and that philosophy is now proved to be Unscientific, unworkable and Unsound. For that reason Russians have thrown it in their Dust beans.
Commies of China are not Patriotic or Nationalists, but living in a parasitic life styles and put on a mantle of Modernization and fast tract economic growth and back piping of so called democratic Tune. We know why Westerns are flocking in Your shinny SEZs? Because you have created such demographic changes to supply very down graded cheap labours comprising of of Displaced Peasants and women from Rural China??
Hello Commies!! You are behaving as Land-lords of bygone days [as Feudal Lords], You make Your subjects as Bonded labours, Created a despicable and extreme corrupt Bureaucrats, and official operatics, and internal security forces, there functions is to catch and kill the dissidents and HR activists. You have corrupted Your Judiciary system. Chinese Communists are creating a formidable War machine to cow down their Asian neighbours, and illegally grabbed their territories, Swallowed Tibet illegally, and destroyed Tibetan Civilization completely. Now these Chinese Commies are helping Terrorists, Taliban, Pakistanis and Iranians to weaken NATO and other Democratically elected Govt. of Small Asian countries?? So Chinese commies are acting like Marauding War lords?. But This Type of Commies' Behaviors will not be allowed to last long and totally unacceptable.
Best option for Chinese Communists to establish Multi-party systems, Uncorrupted Judiciary system, restore HR and Your WH situations. And final ward don't harbour any evil design or malicious intent against Taiwan, and don't forget your shining SEZ hallows are due to Bucks that flown from Taiwan.
What about ME Islamic states?? I only stating a news that flashed in CBS News last night:-
Riyadh 16th. Nov.2007. A nineteen years old Muslim women, received a Judgement from a Riyadh court and she received punishment of 200 lashes and 6 month Jail. Her sin or wrong doing?? Few months ago she was Brutally Raped by Six Riyadhi unknown Muslims youths, in a car [and these youths hijacked her car in first place], and she lodged a complain against this brutal acts. Court's argument was like this- According to strict Sharia law, The Muslim women should not be with unknown males on any circumstances. And That victim must be punished for violating sharia law, with or without knowing the law of the land. Phew... What a Islamic Judgement. So Dear disclaimers - better Tide your own houses, before you criticize Israel. God be merciful. Amen.
November 17, 2007 6:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 06:56
Well, there are some interesting parallels between Taiwan's situation and that of Israel. Both are now democracies (Taiwan only lifted martial law in the 1990s, though) and both are considered illegitimate states by large chunks of the world's population, and of course both are directly or indirectly supported by the U.S.
An important difference however is the geo-economics affecting each state. China is a growing economic power that has attracted investment and immigration from Taiwan; many of China's largest industrial concerns are run by and owned by Taiwanese businessmen. The Arab world shuns Israel and allows no cross-investment, even though Israel has much to offer the rest of the Middle East. For example, Israel could help the Arabs learn how to diversify away from oil dependency and turn their deserts into productive farms.
The fellow above who called Israel an occupying force disregards--or is ignorant of--Israel's internal situation. Arabs living inside Israel have full rights, except that most of them don't serve in the army. None of them seem eager to emigrate to a majority-Muslim state, either, and Arabs living in Jerusalem are said to oppose its re-partition into a Palestinian-administered area. It's remarkable how people with little knowledge or sympathy for the plight of any of the peoples of a region can hold such bitter and hateful opinions.
November 17, 2007 3:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 03:07
If people who are critical of Israel are called anti-semi, then all the china bashers in the US congress (and the sycophone media) are racist bigots...
November 17, 2007 12:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 00:24
TT,
Why is anyone who is critical of Israel is always immediately labelled an anti-semi. Why???????? Because the Jews tell everyone they are god's CHOSEN people - hence they are beyond reproach? Give me freaken break. You can belive whatever the hell you want, but I don't buy it... BTW, if you really believe the Torah, then the Jews were the first people to have committed genecide on record!!!!
November 17, 2007 12:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 00:17
Rick, Rick : I'm heading out of town for a meeting with Quinn. I fear your solution would be the "final solution ". Iran,Iraq,Syria,Lebanon, Saudia Arabia,Jordan,Egypt,assorted Arab gangs and Muslim volunteers, All brave souls,would decend upon Israel and kill her. Now Rick, Quinn and I cannot allow that to happen. You know thats not Kosher,Rick. Well, I will see you later.
November 16, 2007 11:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 23:48
The difference between Isreal and Chinese-Taiwan is Jewish people are a God fearing country and Taiwan is a corrupt country rules by the incompetent government. And most of all, many of the people in "Taiwan" are devil worshiping people. Jewish people will fight for their country's existing with their life with or without outside helps. By using loud noises and playing phony politic with the people would not fool anybody. "Taiwan people" will be united with the mainland people and the U.S. will not interfere at all in the near future. If "Taiwan people" deny they are Chinese, then let exodus start now. I recomand Imperial Japan.
November 16, 2007 11:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 23:42
"I only wish the Formosan Association for Public Affairs, a Taiwanese counterpart to the AIPAC, would become as effective and successful as their Jewish friends.".. This can never be the case unless you have an established Taiwanese population in US that is rich and as politically involved as the US Jewish population.
November 16, 2007 9:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 21:44
TT,
Yep, how about a fair fight for a change.
November 16, 2007 3:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 15:04
Force Israel to unilaterally destroy its planes, tanks and nuclear weapons and then see what happens? That sounds like a plan worthy of the Warsaw Ghetto and Nazi SS Commander Jurgen Stroop. Your ideas are very clear.
November 16, 2007 1:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 13:31
I rue the fact that my tax dollars are being used so foolishly to provide unconditional support for the illegitimate “State of Israel”.
God forbid that we should be drawn into a similar war with China over its dispute with Taiwan.
My solution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict:
1. Declare a no fly zone over the region.
2. Demand that Israel destroy all planes, tanks and nuclear weapons. If they refuse, we do it for them.
3. Stand back and say: “O.K. boys and girls, have at it.
November 16, 2007 10:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 10:40
Ps: Mr Kin-ming Liu, on this picture here, presented by WaPo, you don't looks very happy. I don't blame you. Principles traded for income.
November 16, 2007 7:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 07:01
Ah, Taiwan, the ancessor of folks who stolen the emperor's money and famous from their boat people and their skyscrapers and their sick food ... they whishing more power to dictate 300 million with Western heritage? Sorry, not even Israel can do it well.
November 16, 2007 6:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 16, 2007 06:52
Loud and Vladi reveal their true antisemitism in their myopic focus on Israel and complete ignorance regarding history elsewhere. Taiwan DOES have an indigenous population of aborigines who HAVE suffered as second class citizens after Chinese Nationalists fled the mainland. You two need to get out of your antisemitic echo chamber and stop reading antisemitic websites and Mein Kampf.
November 15, 2007 11:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 23:36
Loud and Vladi reveal their true antisemitism in their myopic focus on Israel and complete ignorance regarding history elsewhere. Taiwan DOES have an indigenous population of aborigines who HAVE suffered as second class citizens after Chinese Nationalists fled the mainland. You two need to get out of your antisemitic echo chamber and stop reading antisemitic websites and Mein Kampf.
November 15, 2007 11:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 23:33
Democracy and aparthied don't belong in the same phrase. Let's call Israel for what it is - it's the most eregious human rights vilator and the most racist regime in the world today,