We need analysis, objectively looking into the facts and what's happening in China today, so we can see a better picture of a real China.

American people and Chinese undeniably hold some bias and misunderstanding about each other. For one thing, if the Communist Party is really as bad and incompetent as some people think, how does China achieve the miracle of economic and social development? Misunderstanding, in international relations, could be dangerous and that's why we have diplomacy.

We need to know better about the Chinese. And the least we need is hatred.

to Z:
Thank you for reminding me of why I am Chinese and the way was.
What I said previously might give you the impression that I am a pro-communist, but I am not. Personally I don't like the CCP, neither do millions of my countrymen. But most of us deeply believe in the critical importance of STABILITY at the present stage for all Chinese people and the notion of economic progress as the top priority above anything else. For western human rights observer, such belief could be seen as utterly selfish and naive, and a consequence of a totalitarian brain-washing campaign. Yet i think such different perspective is not a result of communist propaganda, but the different stage of national economic development. China is still a developing country with GDP per head less than 10% of most of the western world. It is very ignorant to judge China according to the standard of the west. When countres like UK and US were in the same stage as China is today, I guess the human rights condition at that time were at least as appalling as it is today in China.

""they might even happen right in front of your door step, yet you ignore them", it seems to me that you underestimated the consciousness of many Chinese toward human rights (Frankly speaking I am personally a bit displeased and offendedby such ignorant comment). I think my previous participations in numerous Chinese NPOs suffice me to say that there is growing consciousness among the well-off class to help the weak, and there are increasingly more Chinese people willing to take their own initiatives to improve the human right conditions in China. And it seems to me that such promising trend somehow evades western media's attention. While you are reminding me of the pervasiveness of human-right abuses in China(which I don't deny), I also want to remind you of how mis-informed and ignorant many Westerners about the emerging countries like China.

"There are Chinese people like you in Burma as well, they control Burma Economy with the Military Junta Govt, and they engaged in human trafficking and other crime worst then this", well again i think you are misinformed about the situation in Burma then, you have simply ignored the presence of Western companies like Chevron who has lucrative operations in Burma and are providing much needed revenue to the government, also other democracy like India who are trading partners with Burma. Therefore it would be wiser for you to protest to Western democratic governments like the US and France who would, idealistically and theoretically, consider the voices of their own citizens, rather than to pressure on a Chinese totalitarian regime based on misinformed and exaggerated information.

China acts when it is in its national and economic interests. It has economic interests in Myanmar, just like it has int Sudan (oil). So, it has no intention of helping the downtrodden people in Myanmar. Just like the U.S. would not intervene unless it was in its best interests, the U.S. will not act in the case of Myanmar (just like in Rwanda) or in Bosnia (except when under duress and things were getting really bad). What has the U.S. done in the Sudan other than talk about acts of genocide, now a real genocide?

I am a foreigner who has lived in China for the last three years. I am appalled at the kind of ignorant comments about China so many of the people on this forum are making. Come to China, live here for a while and then see if you can still make the claims you are making.

Hey, man, please don't mess the Olympics with Politics. People, either athletes or fans, would have been waiting for four years (1460 days) to join the a game.

Yes, Beijing itself sometimes messes between the two, internally. But, it's communist, are you a communist now ?

To :PCG:

I Think Thurira: have answer why you're chinese and the way you are.

Lucky of you to be sent oversea and get education, yet there are over 500 million people in China suffering human rights crime everyday. "they might even happen right infront of your door step, yet you ignore them".

There are Chinese people like you in Burma as well, they control Burma Economy with the Military Junta Govt, and they engaged in human trafficking and other crime worst then this.

The call by Western Administrations for more sanctions against the regime in Myanmar as well as boycotting the 2008 Olympics in Beijing is the height of hypocrisy. The chairman of Total (France) just recently said the company wasn't going to cease operations in Myanmar. Chevron (USA) likewise said the same. Both companies are actually extracting and selling oil from Myanmar at this stage and providing the Myanmar government with much needed revenue. This is in contrast to potential gas and oil shipments to countries like China and India. Chevron, Total and other companies from Thailand and Australia that are currently extracting oil will be reluctant to pull out unless their respective governments enact legislation to force them to do so. Will that happen when there is so much oil, money and larger geopolitical issues involved? Place your bets...

Burma is the way it is because of China. If you are okay with this, then go to the Olympics. If not then the author has a point.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL

For AMERICAN JEWS' SAKE

Well put Thurira. I hope these people understands.

After Tiananmen Massacre, China’s middle class emerged through years of timorous struggle now have grown into the new ruling class; malformed into a large body of social capitalists bribed into the communist overlord’s ensnarement of wealth for political complacency. The very people that marched for democracy during 1989 Tiananmen campaign now buys into “slow is good” propaganda.

They turned a blind eye to millions of migrant working for crumbs while the new millionaires lives their new found wealth decadently like there is no tomorrow. All the while claiming China is changing for the better because people owns more things now then they have in the past; And now that their offsprings are attending and learning from the capitalistic kingdom, they now well become the next generation rulers of the "New Socialist China" and will continue to provide the army of peasants to supply Walmart and Costco with cheap supplies, where part of the labor force come from the inmates locked up by their famously impartial judicial system who will never sees the date of light nor a single penny from the proceeds.

Sons of dragons under the stewardship of lizards don’t have instinctive inclination to befall into the natural majestic features they inherits. The cohort must be lured and only through chastisement can they do the right things for themselves and their people.

How else can we pressure this "regime" to pressure Burma's regime to reform if we don't hit them at the pocket books and the false national facade they try to build.

This is history repeating itself. Dictators do not need a fixed affiliation with any ideology nor economic system to rule the people. They do not need any state religion as they only worship Power. They only need the trained career personnel who are willing to carry out the so-called duties assigned by their supreme leaders.
Ruling elite usually form a parasitic mutualism with their followers by safeguarding their welfare and by constantly feeding those followers with assurances that their cause is just and essential to protect their country in order create the Orwellian state.
Once this is established all these regimes have to do is to implement practical social and economic systems to stay in power. Chinese model so far succeeded where Soviet model failed because the Socialist China provides the largest labour force needed by the world’s capitalism at present.
However at the heart of every totalitarian system lies its deadly threat to the system. It is the ability of human beings to reason, question and voice their differing opinions. This is the main reason behind the use of excessive and brutally repressive force by these regimes to stem out the threat because of the reality that the voice of the 3000 Proles could apparently shake the core of the totalitarian system controlling 52 million Burmese peoples which the world has witnessed in recent weeks.
China, in no doubt, is one of the world’s super powers. With their super economic power and military might, it must be very difficult for the Chinese leaders to admit that their system is also built on a same thin sheet of ice which can collapse anytime.
For the 'officers' who carried out the brutal killings in Burma this time I present you an excerpt from my favourite book;
“ All these men who were going to murder or to torture the famishing and defenceless creatures who provide them their sustenance had the air of men who knew very well that they were doing their duty, and some were even proud, were “glorying” in what they were doing.
What is the meaning of it?
All these people are within half an hour of reaching the place where, in order to provide a wealthy young man with three thousand rubles stolen from a whole community of famishing peasants, they may be forced to commit the most horrible acts one can conceived, to murder or torture, as was done in Orel, innocent beings, their brothers. And they see the place and time approaching with untroubled serenity.
To say that all these government officials, officers, and soldiers do not know what is before them is impossible, for they are prepared for it. The governor must have given directions about the rods, the officials must have sent an order for them, purchased them, and entered the item in their accounts. The military officers have given and received orders about their cartridges. They all know that they are going to torture, perhaps to kill, their famishing fellow-creatures, and that they must set to work within an hour.”
Leo Tolstoy. In “The Kingdom of God Is Within You”

When will anyone in the entire government of the USA stand up for the principles we were supposedly about? Where are our dear leaders??????? Boycott the Olympics for Tibet, Burma, for their own repression of their own people, This is another Berlin Olympics 1936 Hitleresque Style.

CHINA BOYCOTT NOW!!!!! DO NOT BUY CHINESE GOODS, BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS

WRITE YOUR SENATOR, CONGRESSMAN, DEMAND THAT THEY STAND UP FOR SOMETHING!!!! IT JUST SHOWS HOW WEAK OUR "DEAR LEADERS" ARE, HOW CORRUPT THEY HAVE BECOME!!!!

WHAT A SAD COMMENTARY ON THE USA AND THE "BEACON OF HUMAN RIGHTS" THAT IS LOST ON OUR ABSENT LEADERS WHO ARE TOO BUSY SCURRYING ABOUT FOR MONEY FROM LOBBYISTS!!!!!

THROW OUT EVERY INCUMBENT THIS NEXT ELECTION IF THEY REFUSE A BOYCOTT OF THE BEIJING OLYMPICS AND TELL THEM YOU ARE WRITING EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO DEMAND THAT THE USA BOYCOTT NOW!!!!!

WE CAN DO THIS, THE INTERNET IS POWERFUL, ORGANIZE, REFUSE TO LET OUR LEADERS GET AWAY WITH THIS IN OUR NAME AND THE CHINESE AND BURMESE PEOPLE'S BLOOD SPILLED ON THE STREETS!!!!!! NO TO CHINA NOW!!!!!

The Chinese government wants to use the Olympics as a showpiece for how much progress they have made. In that sense the games have already been very beneficial as China addresses pollution and in small ways adjusts how they treat their population.

The best way to encourage change in China is to continue to help build a large, strong middle class - this can be done by continuing to trade with China, and continuing discussions with China on areas of difference.

As for Darfur and Burma...if the games were being held in Khartoum or Yangon perhaps a boycott would make sense. The atrocities are being committed by the regimes in Sudan and Burma - NOT by the Chinese. Being friends with undesirables in order to secure oil is not unique to China - how long has the US been friends with the Saudis? It would also be wise to remember that the advances made this week in the Koreas would not have come about without China's support.

So, to the hypocritical, self-righteous Americans sounding off here, please take a look at yourself before telling other countries how to go about their business or insulting others who disagree with you. Iraq, torture, complete disregard for the Geneva conventions, Abu Ghraib, secret CIA prisons, domestic spying, rigged elections, support for 'friendly' dictators who do far worse than China and so on and so on.

And finally...why punish the athletes who have dedicated years of their lives to prepare for this? They have done nothing wrong (at least in terms of international relations)

No one gives a damn about Burma.

Let's just assume that the Olimpics were held in the United States in 2005 when Katrina happened,should the Chinese boycott us to pretest the injustice done to those poor people by the Bush administration? The golden rule says" don't do to others what you do not want do to you." International affairs are more complicated than you think. Of course we want Chinese to be more responsibl for their acts in the global arena, but it takes time. Camparing the behavior that the Chinese are performing to the Mao's age, one will find it is improving by the days. Please give them time, they are trying very hard to be an international member.

China is a country run by genocidal maniacs. Any normal everyday person values life and freedom. Only mentally warped and psychopathic people believe in killing and think nothing of dispensing of innocent lives as they have no morals, no conscience and no mind healthy enough to respect life. We all die one day and cannot take our armies, diamonds, gold and palaces that we have built with us. We cannot even hold onto power after living this life so why bother cruelly oppressing and crushing people for something that is not lasting? Eventually the world will change and freedom will come to all lands one way or another. How long people will suffer brutality depends on the willingness of the rest of humanity to put people before profits. Until they do that the world will suffer needlessly for there is enough force and power in a united world to confront and destroy any genocidal government such as those in China and Burma.

First，I want to point out that I am a Chinese national living in Beijing throughout my upbringing . I went to local Chinese school right from elementary school up to senior high school. I am currently studying in one of the most renowned university in the US as an undergraduate and tentatively going for a degree in IR. I think my educational background would make my views more balanced than most people here. There are so many comments here that I want to contest, but due to time pressure, i will just respond to a couple of them thread by thread.

"The China Olympics will be another Berlin 1936, a propaganda pageant for a bunch of dictators more interested in their own personal power than freedom for their own people" I think the author here is insulting the intelligence of our average Chinese and completely ignoring the development of Chinese telecommunication sector and dissemination of information by comparing Chinese today with the Germans back in 1930s. First, We Chinese people live in the mainland are not stupid or naive to take whatever the CCP propaganda say without a pinch of salt. We HAVE the intellectual capacity and awareness to challenge the CCP propaganda by looking for reliable and unbiased sources. Second, the world we live in today are not the old world back in 1940s. Did the German have access to internet there? Could they have access to alternative sources of information other than the Nazi propaganda? There are hundreds of millions of web users in China today (For exact figure I cannot be bothered to check out), this gigantic group of information-hungry people have far easier access to 'sensitive' information than most of you would think based on what the West Press is portraying .The dissemination of information in China is way way way easier and more facilitated than that in 1936 Germany!!! So a comparison between China today and 1936 Nazi Germany is utterly groundless, appalling 'amusing' and extremely ignorant.

"Whether boycotting the game or not won't change a bit on their hatred towards the Americans" What? For Heaven's sake, Chinese people's hatred towards the Americans??? I wonder if you have read any books written by US journalist about their first-hand experience in interaction with Real Chinese people in China. I have read almost all of the books written by them, and I have found none of them conclude a general hatred of Chinese towards the American. I recommend you one recent book written by a Wash Post reporter - John Pomfret called "The Chinese Lessons", since your knowledge of contemporary China would be less mis-informed if you do so.

Regarding boycotting the Olympic Games, well, I found this idea very very amusing, and I seriously question the ethics of those who support the boycott. The Olympic Game is a great opportunity for the CCP to expose itself to the whole world. Such an exposure should be welcomed even by those who opposed CCP. I think the Olympic Game could potentially become a turning point in the trajectory of Chinese history, whether in the direction the CCP and Chinese people want it or not. We should just sit back and watch history unfold, rather than shouting out mis-informed and brain-washed opinions.

One of my impressions about the American people is that many people (actually the majority) in the US are not aware of the fact that they are mis-informed or brainwashed by their government and media just as many of the mainland Chinese.

The China Oylmpics will be another Berlin 1936, a propaganda pageant for a bunch of dictators more interested in their own personal power than freedom for their own people. Let's not fool ourselves though. It's not just a handful of thugs who rule China. They couldn't overlord the country without millions of cogs in their wheel who support them.
If we do not boycott the China Olympics, the question arises as to if not now, when do we have the fortitude to publicly show China that enough is enough? Private diplomacy won't work. For the rulers of China, everything dear to them is done in secret. They couldn't care less about what is said in private. China can throw barbs about 19th century imperialism at us if we tell them the Olympics is persona-non-grata but most importantly the peopl eof Burma and Darfur will at least know that someone gives a damn, and cares enough to tell China that we will no longer stand for business of mass murder as usual.

I am not for boycotting the Olympics in China. We should do everything to help speed-up the downfall of the Communists, which is exactly what attending the Olympics will do. China's history as far back as the Chin dynasty has repeated itself over and over again. A new dynasty comes to power, they treat the peasants badly, they control everything, and are incredibly corrupt. The peasants have enough and eventually overthrow the dynasty. So, we should do everything we can to help the Communists become as corrupt and controlling as possible, and eventually, the Chinese people will have had enough and overthrow the commies. Don't you just love when history repeats itself because people are just too damn dumb to learn from past mistakes. See you in Beijing, showing off all that we have and they don't. Viva-la-revolution!!!

Mainland Chinese had been long be taught to hate foreigners especially Americans whom they thought had been hindering their union of Taiwan and hostile to their government. Whether boycotting the game or not won't change a bit on their hatred towards the Americans.

Let us not forget that the government in Beijing remains an illegal military government, the only legal government of China being that of the Republic of China based in Taiwan.

Nothing that the government in Beijing says has any force and the UN should be free to ignore them altogether.

Recognising this military dictatorship (China) was the biggest mistake the rest of the world made in dealing with the country. It is time to reverse the decision and cut off all diplomatic ties with this oppressive monster.

Let's not mix politics with sports. The idea behind the modern Olympics was to bring people and countries together. Besides the power for an American Olympic boycott lies with the U.S. Olympic Committee who had repeatedly said no boycott. Politicians don't usually interfere or have much influence over sports. One official said the Committee would not send American athletes only if the situation was dangerous to their well being.

I totally support a boycott of the China games, and I seriously question the ethics of those of my countryman who do not. In fact, I think that it is very seriously unethical for people to participate or support them.

I can think of very many reasons to boycott these games, and I plan on not working on them, or watching them, or giving a single nickel for any product that does support them.

I have worked on other games, and I will not work on the China games. I would encourage other US citizens to boycott participating corporations since the US itself doesn't have the guts to do anything moral in this situation.

If China should help depose the current Burmese government for violent suppression that killed dozens or maybe even hundreds as some would speculate, then wouldn't it make sense for China to also to try to bring down the Israeli government for killing thousands of Lebanese in its indiscriminate bombing campaign only a year ago?

This anonymous PLA goon show the world every reason to punished China and keep "it" on its leash.

Mr. Liu speaks for too many Chinese still saddle with the memories of Tiananmen Massacre. But I suppose he should of dressed up as Charlie Chan with mustache, ponytails and top hat and all.
Or maybe he should of consulted Micheal Jackson on appropriate photographic portraits before you the image savvy bunch can pick him apart!

The world feels for all the Burmese protesters that's been killed, injured and jailed. We the world citizens should do everything we can to contribute to the downfall of authoritative regimes.
And threaten China with boycotts is one of the best way that the free world societies can uses to kill two birds with one stone.

Bush will not deliver "Freedom" to Burma because the country don't have oil reserves, and won't help them with all he can because a liberated Burma won't provide any economic advantage in Asia or provide any political points for himself or the GOP. And the Democrats are too busy bashing Bush and concentrating beating the GOP in 2008.

If Olympics were awarded based on good behavior by the government of the hosting country, the USA should not have had the 1904, 1932, 1984, or 1996 games. China may be friendly with the Myanmar dictatorship, but USA trained brutal dictators in its School of the Americas in Florida and its CIA helped install them into power through coups like the one that overthrew Guatemala's elected government. These US-trained and supported dictators slaughtered civilians for decades in America's 'backyard'. Listing individual abuses of power and human rights abuses committed by the USA since its founding and continuing on today would take an encyclopedic volume and not to be attempted here.

Come on, wants majority Chinese to hate Americans? Wants to create a new enemy? You guys are extremists. Have you seen that boycott as a punishment worked for any countries? We need a law to punish those who engage the international hate crime.

Do you think the Chinese would be happier if the American athletes would boycott the Beijing Olympics? It would give them a good chance of scoring more gold medals, and the Chinese people would celebrate just the same without the Americans or whoever wnats to boycott them.

"Berlin 1936"....

Assuming the man knows China, he obviously does not know (like so many posters on that side of things) who was who, in 1936, and what they were about.

Let's be minimally serious, shall we?

Hypocrite? Retard? That's easy for people who live in free society to say. Do you live in China? Have you experienced torture and persecution because you happen to disagree with the government? I am ashamed as an American to be hearing my fellow Americans spout such ignorance and hate. For those of you who think China is so wonderful, maybe you should live there. I'd love to hear what your opinion of the Chinese government is then.

It's interesting how one person's hate, in this case Kin-Ming Liu, for a particular country blinds him from objective reasoning. There are many self hating individuals, and it says a lot about themselves than the countries they hate.

There are many people who criticize a country for any grievance yet keep silent on other countries that have similar conditions, especially if it's their own country.

People like Kin-Ming Liu are hypocrites.

anymore kool-aid?

What do you think of Fallows observation that a boycott of the Olympics would cause dramatic hatred of Americans by the Chinese population? While perhaps too strongly phrased, in principle I agree that any boycott of the Beijing Olympics would backfire.

By having a strong presence in the Olympic Games, wouldn't America and its allies be missing out on an excellent way of opening up China to foreign influences? The Olympics could be a great way for America to win favor with the general Chinese population, let alone with the ruling party. It would also be a great way for Americans to gain an appreciation of Chinese culture, something noble in itself.

Despite the many problems with China (and I hope other readers can detail this better than I) alienating the world's most populous nation would be the worst way of encouraging real progress.

not only Chinese Olympic issues regarding burma.

hello Mr.Bush!,
hundreds of thousands of young burmese protested on the streets of Rangoon repeatedly asked US forces (and or Blue helmet forces) to come into Burma for protection of monks and young students. but now they were gone after troops were knocking their door after midnight. no one can imagine how their fate will be, where they have been beaten or tortured or killed or even burnt alive. so, even now, it's too late, really really too late.

Bloodsheds are not in the front-line, gun fire not in the forest, but in the downtown, in front of world's media regardlessly. just talking in UNSC and voting with unaccountable governments in the permanent seat and taking years means giving the chance and time to brutal regime for killing more monks, students, civilians took part in protest. it's a shame in world history. Bush! cant you hear? that millions of Burmese people both in and out of Burma are crying, crying, shocking everyday, looking around for humanitarian protection and living with fear all days.
they wont deserve to be human?

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