Mr. Aboubakr:

Moroccan individual liberties are already curtailed.

The veil is banned in many places including among the staff in Casablanca's airport.

Veiled women are practically not present in Morocco's public televisions even though there are many Moroccan women who wear the hijab.

The Sahrawi people are brutalized for expressing their opinions regarding the Sahara.

Hashish (Marijuana) is banned but alcohol is not. Alcohol is now sold in every corner in big cities including to minors (check out French-owned ACIMA supermarkets) while Moroccan farmers of marijuana in the North see their fields burnt down and destroyed by the state.

Banning or restricting alcohol consumption should not be an agenda of "Islamists" alone. I am secular and I do drink occasionally but I would support PJD's move against this alcohol industry that is getting out of control in Morocco.

One of the major obstacles to democracy in Morocco is the small French-educated elite. These groups run the country like a mafia and are allied with the Monarchy. They both benefit from each others politically and economically while the average Moroccan is serving them like slaves.

Mr. Aboubakar,

If you frame these issues in the context of ideology "Islamist vs secular" (basically a western view of things), then you know who will win.

The word secular sounds so bad in Arabic that it is perceived as a substitute for "anti-Islam". Also, unfortunately to many westerners it is so.

The PJD is not worried about imposing certain "illiberal things" (such as the restriction of alcohol) because it knows it can pass them with the support of most Moroccans. I would vote for it and I am not what the West calls an Islamist (I am close to being an atheist than anything else).

Moroccans need to be able to debate these issues freely and then decide for themselves.

I will not accept that some French-educated Moroccan elite (some of them can't even read Arabic) who read about Moroccan news on French media tells average Moroccans how to conduct their lives according their so-called "elitist liberal" views.

The Moroccan elite for the most part never said anything about the brutality and violence used by their allies in the Palace against other Moroccans. They just didn't care as long as they were able to carry on their mafia businesses in Morocco, read their imported French magazines, watch their French programs, and send their kids to French schools to learn about French history.

This poll was publicized last spring by Le Journal. Why are you just getting around to writing about it as if it was news? I largely agree with Karim, and indeed with you. It is mostly a small Westernized elite that fears the PJD. This same elite has been in bed with the monarchy for too long, and has flubbed every opportunity to deliver genuine reforms.If not the nationalists or the socialists, then who? If one is seeking a force uncompromised by power, it makes sense to turn to the one major party that has never held power, the PJD. Reform is what Moroccans will be voting for in 2007. The secular parties don't have much time left to persuade Moroccans that they have changed their stripes, and this time around are up to the task.

this is a response to the above comments! why on earth do you guys hold such a grudge against what you call the French educated elite in Morocco. and wat is this nonsense about them being related to the monarchy. that is absolute nonsense! yes indeed i agree that the elite have to get involved into politics if they want to change the country, but to say that they are the masters and the rest of the population is a slave, i take offence to that. maybe you should get up and do something about politics if u care so much. but dont ever say that its the rich elite who screwed up........as you say, they are a small minority so if the majority of moroccans wanted to do something about it, they should have......i think i can deduce from the above comments that it looks like the majority of moroccans are scared that the PJD wins and are trying to blame it on the rich class because you know very well that whether its the islamists that win it next year or not, it doesnt affect the rich class at all!!!! so i say stop all this hatred of the rich from the majority.......a lot of those rich families have worked their whole lives to get to where they are! jst dont 4get one thing, morocco is moving towards modernism, democracy, and secularism where the PJD wins or not next year! so lets try and focus on that rather than blaming each other abt responsibilities! cant we just turn the page and work for making a better future rather than dwelling on the past?
merci @+

MOROCCO IS, HAS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE POLITICALLY INSIGNIFICANT. In the global scheme of things Morocco is a hostage to grand ambitions that are proportionate to its self-delusions. Morocco an African nation that pretends not to be African. It is the only Arab coutry with the Zionist Triangle in its national flag. Its aspiration to be quasi-European illicits only knowing winks and mockery in EuropeZ halls of geo-political power. Morocco acts as a sentinel for Europe against African migrants to Europe, and what does it get in return? Political Ostracism from Africa and the privilege to pick the crumbs off EuropeZ political table.

MOROCCO IS, HAS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE POLITICALLY INSIGNIFICANT. In the global scheme of things Morocco is a hostage to grand ambitions that are proportionate to its self-delusions. Morocco an African nation that pretends not to be African. It is the only Arab coutry with the Zionist Triangle in its national flag. Its aspiration to be quasi-European illicits only knowing winks and mockery in EuropeZ halls of geo-political power. Morocco acts as a sentinel for Europe against African migrants to Europe, and what does it get in return? Political Ostracism from Africa and the privilege to pick the crumbs off EuropeZ political table.

Which political parties will emerge as winners and which as losers will be decided by the people of Morocco in legislative elections in 2007. However, what is worth noting here is that unlike in most of the rest of the MENA region, in Morocco we can be certain that a truly free and fair election will determine those winners and losers. As a variety of international NGOs and the media observed at the time, this was certainly the case in the last Moroccan legislative elections held in 2002. In that election, PJD did well, but so did Morocco's traditional secular political parties.

What I find contentious about Mr. Aboubakr Jamai's editorial view is the unsubstantiated causal link he attempts to draw between the Monarchy's continued progressive and skillful management of the on-going process of political and social reform in Morocco and the rise of political Islam in the country. The success of those reforms are well documented in the international press and widely acknowledged by independent political observers from the West and elsewhere. Whether it is a question of establishing women's rights or an unflinching and wholly public and transparent look at the country's past human rights abuses or the holding of internationally recognized free and fair elections, the process of political and social reform in Morocco, which has been fostered and encouraged by the Moroccan Monarchy, has made greater strides and made them more rapidly and successfully than anywhere else in the region. That an Islamist political party, the PJD, has emerged to achieve some success in the political space that the Monarchy has opened and nurtured in Morocco is only natural. It is also pretty clear evidence on the face of it that Morocco is hardly the brutal and repressive political environment that Mr. Jamai consistently alleges in his continuing campaign against one of the most progressive, modern and forward looking governments in the region. Incidentally, one that also remains unwaveringly friendly to the United States of America - even in these troubling times.

Morocco certainly has more to do in its process of political and social self-transformation. Good progress is being made. Indeed, remarkably good progress given the circumstances of the region as a whole. What I hope does not happen in Morocco is that voices like those of Mr. Jamai, who would let the best become the hasty and fatal enemy of the good, do not prevail in Morocco's public debate about the country's future.

Sincerely,

Robert M. Holley
Executive Director
Moroccan American Center for Policy
Washington, D.C.

With all due respect Mr. Robert Holley, we don't need an apologist for dictators and monarchs hired by a Moroccan regime lobbying firm to tell us that Morocco is democratic and wonderful. The societies of Arab countries are crumbling under the dual weight of absolute rulers and extremist Islamists. From Morocco and Tunisia to Egypt, and Syria, Islamists are gaining the upperhand because dicators and kings have failed to open the space politically and economically. They have indeed let the Islamists work unopposed by any secular movements so that they can continue to be supported by short-sighted Western governments who don't realize the ramifications of this political, social and economic asphyxiation.

Mr Holley i completely agree with you! shame some people cannot look at the positive outlook on this! shouldnt they consider themselves lucky they live in a country where they can or cannot practice their religion.....instead of being in another country where they are being suppressed!!! and i am sure that all these people making nasty comments about morocco have, unlike me, probably not lived in morocco. my suggestion is to come live back in morocco for awhile and see how things are changing......or maybe do they just want to keep saying negative things about morocco cause they dont have anymore excuses for immigrating abroad.......maybe a question they should ponder upon......

S.Amar:

I am Moroccan, born and raised in Morocco. My comments were not directed exclusively at Morocco's wealthy. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. Also please don't take this personally, some of these "elites" belong to my own family. Also this is not against France or French ways. I admire French culture but I don't look down at my own (the way many Moroccan elites do).

The Moroccan french-educated elite is for the most part really a cast (as in the Indian cast system) who lives in a their walled-off world (the movie Marock tells it all). Many (not all) of these people control key positions in Morocco and basically share them among their exclusive cast.

Here is a small example that shows what I am talking about. Take for instance the entry requirements for the school of Medicine and the school of finance in Casablanca (ISCAE). If you graduate from a French school (French mission), you can be admitted with a much lower GPA (moyenne) than if you graduated from a non-French high school. This blatant discrimination that favors the elites (instead of merit) still goes on today in many aspects of Moroccan life.

The Moroccan people, almost half of which speak Amazigh (Berber), finance through their tax contributions a public TV (2M) that broadcasts many of its programs in French, some Arabic and almost nothing in Amazigh. Some of its pathetic programs included children shows in French (not to confuse with language programs to each kids other languages). If the PJD ever wins, one of the things they have to do is to put an end to this type of farces. If the Moroccan elite wants a French-based TV, well they can run one themselves and pay for it from their own pockets.

I would like to make sure that you understand that I am not arguing against foreign languages, or foreign press (French), etc. I am a big fan of French press.

If you want to understand how the elites can be responsible for holding the wealth/welfare of a given country hostage to their exclusive cast, take a good look at the South American countries. Read about Bolivia, Venezuela, etc.

The problem with the Moroccan elite is not only economical, it is social and ideological. The latter is the dangerous element that feeds religious extremism. In the old days, we had an elite that understood well Morocco and tried to modernize the country by consolidating western thinking with the local one without causing any clashes. That's not the case today. Today's elites lost touch with the ground in Morocco.

Modernity is understood differently by different people. I certainly do not agree with the type of modernity put forward by the elites. Not that I find faults with it but I think it lacks sensitivity towards the local culture of which they are ignorant.

A bon entendeur.

Mr. Molley:

I understand that it is your job to polish the image of the Moroccan government (I am a Moroccan citizen myself) but your attack on Mr. Jamai's work is unjustifiable and irresponsible.

If the Moroccan government is not repressive as you claimed, then how do you explain the brutality and torture that is used by the police forces against Sahrawi people in the south? Last june, the Moroccan police tortured one of the Sahrawi activists (Saidi Salek) by pouring gas on him which caused him all kind of burns on his body.

As a Moroccan, I am quite embarrassed by this government that violates the rights of its citizens with impunity.

Please tell the Moroccan officials that you are in touch with to stop using violence against people and to stop torturing them. Enough is enough.

Islamism is rising because political parties are totally incapable of showing enough political maturity,of showing they can control the situation,they can offer an alternative,they have plans for the society. Look at their "campaigns" for 2007. Inexistent agendas. No leadership whatsoever. And then they complain and say the monarchy is responsible. And you,Mr Jamai,put everybody in the same basket. Well,the monarchy is certainly to blame for many mistakes but if Islamism is rising, it's not entirely because the King bla bla...
And naturally,people want to give the PJD a chance because they are more democratic,more active,rely a lot on women and are "more concerned with applying good governance principles",as A.J. said; something people have never seen.
No Mr Jamai,I'm not voting for USFP,RNI,Istiqlal,etcétéra etcétéra etcétéra. Just seeing the leaders' faces on TV makes me sick. That's reality. And as long as political parties won't show "7ennet yiddihoum",there's noway i can give them my trust. Even fear didn't shake them up. What will?

Islamism is the natural result of an educational system that is flavored with religious ingredients even in sport.We know that what we call islamists or the the manipulated according to me are the products of social education. Islam in Morocco is everywhere without being nowhere.Moroccans don't give a damn about religion.What do you expect from a society that lost everything to do. history taught us that the less educated a society the more there is a presence of religion, superstitions.In Morocco as the case in many other countries we tried to impose religion as the only alternative despite the fact that many of our politicians and the king himself is an atheist. For how can we spend the whole of one's life in western schools without being influenced by their ideas (a human being is the result of his education). Religion makes people accept their plight (God or Allah wanted me to be like that and no objection to the will of God, Allah. People discovered acroos the years that moderate islam is only beneficiary to the rulers and they fell into extremism.It is natural if we evaluate the degree of knowledge they have. The moroccan society is living an alienation never seen in history. For exemple we repeat to the moroccans through the whole day on tv and academic books that we are arabs, and the truth is that we are majority berbers.90% of moroccans do not understand the language on the tv, which is standard arabic. whereas the majority speak moroccan dialect,a combinaision of amazigh and arabic. that's an exemple concerning culture. economically ans geographically speaking Morocco is the nearest to the West. because there's a european part in the moroccan territory (sebta, melilla). And it's well known that the moroccan economy without Europe is nada. So what is legitimate to consider ourselves Eastern(which the moroccans have never seen) or Western because every moroccan family has a link there?

Arayzim:

Welcome on board. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to present here the Amazigh nationalist point of view (A bit extremist if you ask me). I am a defender of the Amazigh language but I do not subscribe to Amazigh nationalism and its extremist ideas.

1- You claim that Moroccans don't give a damn about religion. I don't think it's true. Would you mind backing your claim with some evidence such as a study or some poll?

2- You claimed that history taught us that the less educated a society the more there is presence of religion. I disagree, I think it is more complicated than that. America is one good example. The most advanced and the strongest country in the world has become the most religious western country among all western countries. How do you explain the rise of religious conservatism in America?

3- The fact that few of our politicians are atheists is true and not surprising. Marxism is present in Morocco with its followers. For the king himself, do you have any evidence?

4- The King didn't spend his whole life in western schools as you wrote. The king went to the royal high-school in Rabat, then spent 4 years in Rabat's Law University then got his Phd from France.

5- The Moroccan government (which I don't defend) claims that Morocco is officially an Arab state and part of the Arab world. It never claimed that all Moroccans are Arabs. My family is Berber, never felt they were called Arabs and never had a doubt about their identity. Whether the majority of Moroccans are Arab-speaking or Amazighen is not clear. As far as I know, there is no available data to support your claim.

6- You claimed that 90% of Moroccans do not understand the language on TV because supposedly they do not understand standard Arabic. Again this is not true. Morocco's literacy rate is about 50%. Now anyone who went to school in Morocco (public not French mission) will be able to understand standard Arabic. So your 90% figure is exaggerated. Besides, what percentage of Moroccans watch the pathetic government propaganda Moroccan TV anyways? More over, you people in north watch Spanish TV in SPANISH anyways but that you don't seem to mind.

7- Sebta and Melilla (2 Spanish colonies on Africa) are only relevant to the surrounding people in the north. Where I come from (Casablanca), I know nothing about these 2 cities and could care less. I feel insulted when you tell me that I am closer to Europe when the people of Europe do not want anything to do with me.

8- Morocco has a rich, diverse and complicated heritage. It has African-Berber heritage (music, language, traditions, etc), Eastern heritage in terms of religion (Islam and Judaism) and language (Arabic, which evolved quite a lot in Morocco) and also a mediterranean heritage.

9- Since the Arab conquest of Morocco in the 7th century, 3 great Berber-led Muslim dynasties ruled, led and expanded Morocco all the way to sub-saharan Africa and parts of Spain. It is inaccurate to claim the Berbers of Morocco became subjects of the few Arabs who conquered it.

10- I agree that the Moroccan government must include Berber as an official language and must promote it (I suggest replacing French with Berber) but that doesn't mean we should deny our connection to the Arab world.

religion can control a country is an abhorrent one to me. We in the United States have recently been subject to a resurgence of fundamentalism, that is really primitive tribalism. Putting the face of gawd on controlling other people in order to feel superior is pathetic. I hope you recognize the voice of control for what it is and look for the beauty within and the Union with that or as Rumi called it, "the friend," Certainly the friend is nota fanatic. Beware.

karim,it's not surprising that truth hurts. it seems that you re totaly brainwhashed and the official propaganda worked on you.whenever we speak about real subjects we become nationalists and i will not be surprised if you add that i am an agent of the west who is sent to creat havoc in the arab world.i am not saying that moroccans do not understand at all the classical arabic which is used nowhere else except on tv.Every (muslim)nation has its own dialect.a moroccan arabic is not like the egyptian not like any other dialects of the (arab)nations.i forgot moroccans speak well egytian and that's because of their films that dominate our moroccan tvs.no other (arab)nation broadcasts a moroccan film or song or whatever. you know the reason why: they say that they do not understand the moroccan dialect or (arabic).Because of the impossibility of union on real grounds like language, the politicians invented a standard arabic.try to speak the classical arabic withwhomever you want and he or she will find it funny.
i agree with you that moroccans are fed up with the moroccan media, by the way you give the proof of what i wanted to say.anybody who vists morocco will be amazed by the the infinite number of the satelites on every moroccan house. my explanation goes like this and is based on discussions with friends and personal observations: first possibility:the moroccans are looking for sex channels if we hold in mind that the channls concerned broadcasts in languages thatthe moroccans never heared before,which refutes the idea that moroccans care about religion or, the second possibility: moroccans are tired of this archaism and want change without been permited to because the politicians are afraid of modernity which implies the disappearence of their paternalism.
concerning the second point that despite the fact that america is a very modern country but holds to religion i answer that we are not talking about the same thing. religion in the developped countries is one among many things. In the muslim countries it is the ONE.An ignorant fggih(religious man) dictates how people must behave, must marry, must wear clothes, must teach children and so on.
the other point about the fact that you feel insulted when i say that you feel insulted when i say that we are closer to europe. i say that the harm is alredy done man. our politicians sold us years ago. but for economic reasons we leave dignity apart for a while. we are number one in europe concerning the number of immigrants. the first in Italy, the first in Spain, the first in netherlands, second in germany after the turks, and in france the first, before it were the algerians. we are the third in canada and i am sure that we will become the first in the next ten years. so you imagine the influence of these people on the moroccan econmy, culture and so on knowing that the majority of them hold a double citizenship. the moroccan government is aware of this and they try to use them as a loby for the present and the future.
concerning the inclusion of the amazigh language i advice the politicians to hurry up before it's too late like what happens in Irak with the kurds. because amazigh people discovered the truth and they will not be cheated any more.

All the interesting debate about Morroco aside, when did the triangle become a zionist symbol?

Confused,

I think you're confused about where you are posting.

Moroccans are having a very interesting debate and examination over our present and future. Please do not push us aside to try and manipulate this conversation into Jew vs. Arab meaningless back and forth. Please go somewhere else.

i think some excellent comments have been made here and i am proud to see for once that moroccans are debating vital issues sans ke netlahou 3ala les autres! hehe
i think that if history taught us anything, that is that religion and politics dont mix! turkey is politically a secular country for decades now......that didnt make them any less muslim or less attached to their religion?
in morocco i jst feel that we have a loss of identity.....i, a casablanca born with a berber father completely agree wid arayzim from hoceima! in the past couple of months, LECONOMISTE presented a series of data concerning the berber population in morocco....and im sorry to let u know karim that yes the berbers are still the vast majority in morocco and that is not ready to change anytime soon! now i dont agree with extremist berbers but i do want to point the fact that i dont enjoy being called al maghrib al arabi when were not! i mean a country is supposed to represent its countrys profile......and the one in morocco is berber.....but yet were arab?
concerning our culture.....i think we all have to understand that even though we are muslim and a minority of us are arabs wid a majority of berbers, we do indeed have some arab culture inside us.....but then again, look at where were positioned geographically....were located even more to the west of spain! lol and we were conquered by france, spain, and our different cities held by different countries, ie tangiers! so there is undeniable truth that no one can deny, which is that our pure moroccan culture that we are living today has nothing to do with arab culture.
call me patriotic or nationalistic, but i feel that moroccan language is moroccan, and should be considered as a different language!!! no wonder why other arab nations cant understand us....because it seems like our government still doesnt want to understand that its a different language! and on a sidenote- a lot of my middle eastern friends at university wid me in the uk sometimes watch the tv news wid me on the snrt website in arabic and they keep laughing when the guys talking cuz they say its really bad arabic wid many mistakes! hehe
we shud not be surprised with the culture and the way moroccans live because weve been mislead our whole lives by our government about everything, we have been colonised by several countries so our culture has adopted and integrated....but instead of being proud of it, embrace it and bolster it, we choose to look at everything wrong with it......
i was told by many elderly people that the government should not be surprised that there are islamists in morocco since the government had once removed philosophy from the educational system and reinforced religious studies.....i mean the mistakes that countries make......
in terms of politics, i have nothing against the PJD, and i have to secretly admit that i admire them to a certain extent because of the notorioty they have been able to attain in a short period of time....but i would never vote for them because i strongly believe that any party that used religion as a way to get to their goal or present religion as their basis of political structure is a big NO for me.....i dont live in america but having studied in an american school in casablanca my whole life, i know exactly how americans think and how their government works....as u say americans are quite attached to their religion.....but those are the republicans, white capitalistic religious men with a huge feeling of superiority! and look at what happened to the republicans in the elections? they were crashed both in the senate and congress!
as a young moroccan, i consider myself as the new moroccan generation and there are a few things i would like changed; that the king be stripped of his powers and that we become a proper constitutional monarchy. for those like nadia yassine who believes we dont deserve a king, well then that woman just needs to take a long look at herself in the mirror....i love my king and am devoted to him but i think that we, the people, should have more power to elect a strong government. why couldnt we be like the uk? i see how things work here and most of the people are still devoted to their queen. i want us to be able to chose between right wing and left wing, be presented with the head of each side, and we, as a nation, be able to vote on who we want and thats how we have our own elected government.
i would also like religion to completely detach itself from politics. but i dont think that would have a drastic effect on moroccan peoples life as we are already living like that but the laws are jst hypocritical....ps- thats one of the reasons i love my country because we have freedom of religion, well alsmot, where one can go to a bar or the mosque and people are not affected by it since theyre used to it....i jst wish the laws could be made up so as the whole world would know wat is it we feel about religious influence in morocco.
i would also like the media to completely change its tactics.....why on earth do you think most people watch french or spanish satellite? its because we can understand it better....our channels speak in a language that most people dont understand. and mr karim, i think that wat mr arayezmi meant by 90% is that 90% of literate people.....we just dont understand it! that is not our arabic, its just not our identity. and jst think how much more attractive programs in moroccan could be cause you would really be able to express what you really feel!!!! humor will be better, feelings, emotions, everything....with the arabic that were using, i feel like im being patronised by someone telling me what to do...that is why i dont like watching the news in arabic in morocco!!!
n for the comment abt the moroccan flag having a zionist star....my answer to that is.....so? wat if it were the star? its just a motif......i am glad that the moroccan flag is not the typical crescent or green and white n red like our easter neighbors and all the rest! hehe and even if it were a zionist triangle, lets not 4get that moroccan sephardic jews make up a huge history of who we are! they are moroccan just like dak moul ddetail that sells the cigarette at the corner of the street! lol
bon ben je pense la ke ive carried on for 2 long donc je v!
mais thank you karim for the response....i do agree with you.....except on the ISCAE thing.....the fact that the people from les missions francaises ont plus de chances davoir acces a cet etablissement c'est juste du au fait que le systeme deducation francais qui est mieux adapte pour les universtites. cela dit i dont feel that the moroccan system is bad.....je trouve que le niveau est bien mais comme la pedagogie et les resources sont nuls, rien nira crescendo tant qu'un autre syteme nest pas adopte!
excuz moi pr le changement de langues....c pas fait expres....c thoughts written as they come along in my mind whether they b in french or english...n if u think that ive carried on 4 2 long then tell me so...lol

oh n 1 last thing concerning the sahara.....i think that the government should really polish its image and let the sahrawis protest if they want to.....as long as its in peace.....and we should really get to the bottom of this.....a solution has to be reached concering le sahara cuz its deteriorating moroccos image abroad! as a moroccan, there is no way i wanna give up the sahara which i believe is historically linked to us....whether its ours or not is another question....thats y a part of me wants to get to the bottom of this issue and resolve it...have a referendum but not the way its been proposed where the truly sahrawis who used to live there in 1990-91 vote....it should be everyone having a property there and living...whether sahrawi or dakhil.....after all they have been living together for decades. and algeria should stop poking its nose around our business!

First, I would just like to say I'm impressed by Mr. Aboubakr Jamaïs's work as a journalist. I follow Le Journal via the Internet, and believe that it is precisely this kind of independent-minded and hard-hitting journalism that the country needs. And not only Morocco, that goes for all of its neighbours too: Le Journal sets a standard for oppositional, activist journalism in the region.

Second, I would argue PJD are not as dangerous as people think, and that the Moroccan secular elite especially views them in too sinister a light. They're in-house Islamists, in thrall of the Monarchy, and the danger they project is mostly indirect: they provide the monarchy with cover for curtailing liberties further (as Mr. Jamaï points out), and they may encourage the wider Islamist trend by their successes (and/or themselves splinter and radicalize, if that happens).

Islamism in Morocco strikes me as, to a large extent, a socio-economic question. If Morocco's elite could finally be convinced to get out of the dead end that is the Sahara Question, hold the referendum and accept the results, the vast amount of money poured into settlement projects and military repression there could be put to use to alleviate poverty in Morocco proper. That would help undercut support for Islamism, and loosen the social tensions leading to ultra-radicalism (whether religious or political -- or both), and thus also make further reform easier.

My best wishes to Morocco and Le Journal.

Oh, and by the way, it's downright distasteful that a hired propagandist for the regime like Robert Holley dares stick his head into this and criticize Mr. Jamaï for his writings. Mr. Holley takes money from Morocco's regime to stop the progress of its people, while Mr. Jamaï, on the other hand, takes risks to help his country evolve towards democracy -- it's rich to hear the former criticize the latter.

(Now, that would be something for the Washington Post to have a look at: American citizens who work for dictatorial regimes abroad, to prevent democracy in those countries.)

hope le beaugosse is not passing for others to contribute to this blog. I was a fan of Yassin Zizi blog and he used to animate his blog by using different nicknames of himself.
sorry le beaugausse but hope it is not contagious
cheers

Alle:

The repressive Moroccan government is an ally of the current US administration, and even tortures suspects for them (Rendition program).

The mainstream US media knows this and factors it in the way they report on Moroccan affairs. As a Moroccan myself I can tell you there is a relative subtle pro-Moroccan bias in US media compared with how they deal with other Arab states. Not that Morocco's record in terms of human rights abuses or corruption is any better.

The Moroccan leadership has chosen (for better or worse) to never upset any US administration and has also for tactical reasons kept good low profile relations with Israel. Both US governments and US media "reward" Morocco for its "good wise behavior" even though Moroccans at large are opposed to these policies.

Amar:

On the Sahara issue, what you should be concerned about is not the "image of Morocco" but the suffering of Sahrawi who get beaten up and tortured by the Moroccan police and security forces.

If past (and current) Moroccan governments were not as repressive as they were, perhaps the Sahrawi would have never risen up against it. We all know where the phosphate money goes and where it is extracted from. After all, OCP bares the name of the monarchy.

Both Algeria and Spain are involved in the Sahara conflict.

Arayzim:

Thanks for your reply.

I don't think there was anything nationalist in my arguments. I have debated this issue with other Imazighen including few radical nationalists, so I think I heard quite a lot from all sides.

Like all Moroccans who went to public school, I certainly was subject to state propaganda and brainwash (like in all countries). It however doesn't mean I never figured things out for myself. I didn't claim that I held the ultimate truth.

Before I address the rest of your points, I would like to clarify the following. The Arabic that you refer to is called Modern Standard Arabic (MSA), not classical Arabic (in French it is called that way and it is inaccurate). Moroccan TV uses a mix of MSA, a "polished" Moroccan Arabic dialect, and French. MSA is used in news along with French and Berber with its 3 versions.

You have to remember that even Moroccan Arabic dialects are different across regions. Where you come from in the north, your dialect is sometimes hard to understand. You guys use words that are not used anywhere else. MSA provides some kind of reference for different dialects that are spoken in Morocco.

You also forgot to mention that MSA is used in newspapers.

On Egyptian movies, I am afraid that your explanation is not accurate. Moroccan movies are not watched elsewhere because Moroccan cinema produces very few movies every year. Egyptian cinema is well established and quite frankly relatively well developed. Egypt is basically the hollywood of the Arab world. Moroccan spoken Arabic is hard to understand once you cross over to Libya but that doesn't mean people can't get used it. The same way Moroccans got used to Egyptian dialect, so can other Arabs if Morocco's movie industry was well developed.

The Rai music (which is sung in Algerian Arabic dialect) has become quite popular in the East. Who doesn't know Cheb Khaled?

On the issue of satellite TVs, well it is not all about sex. And even if it was, it doesn't mean Moroccans do not care about their religious beliefs. I believe most Moroccan homes watch Arab satellite TVs and few European TVs (except for the elites who are always tuned to France. They miss their beloved colonists). Moroccan TV lacks credibility in reporting the news and contains a lot of "the King is the greatest" etc. There are some good programs that are produced by the second TV 2M, they just have to stop broadcasting them in French.

As to religion in the developed world, well America has a unique experience in this regard (hence why I brought it up). The French TV France3 produced an interesting documentary about this, and it is called "Dieu Superstar: le nouveau reve American". Look it up on the web, it is available for download. In case you didn't know, Nadia Yassine's movement says that they want to follow the footsteps of US evangelists.

The fqih can say whatever he wants (it is just opinion), you don't to have to do as he says. This is common knowledge among Moroccans. You do have to do as the King says though, or else he'll have you arrested.

Amar:

I will reply to your other message, but I can already tell you that you seem to be way off in your arguments.

Just came in....

20 Moroccan Imams were removed from the mosques where they were preaching by the Moroccan government.

The Moroccan government is also prosecuting 2 lawyers who defended a Moroccan Islamist group accused of terrorism. The state prosecutor claims that the 2 lawyers violated the ethic standards of law practice.

300 Moroccan lawyers came to their defense and are representing the 2 lawyers (we all know what the court will decide).

The minister of Information Mr. Nabil Benabdallah said on Al-Jazeera that "Morocco as a DEMOCRATIC nation is taking the necessary steps to fight terrorism".

Do these officials have any face left?

If things continue the way they are with these violations and blatant disregard of the law, the police will one day refuse to carry their orders.

Personnaly I think that Mr Jamai suffers from a deep ego problem. As I read it in many comments, Morocco is obviously one of the most advanced countries in the region in terms of democracy and political reforms. Despite the fact that the "region" is not an exemple of freedom, the path followed until now by Morocco under the new era shows clearly the good intentions of the "regime" (as it is used to call the moroccan monarchy in Mr Jamai's magazine) in modernizing the country on both economical and political sides. Mr Jamai's denies totally this and refuses to move. He stands on his position which consists in positioning himself as a "systematic opposant". Such attitudes absolutely not serve the interets of the country.

karim: Thanks for your response, you've made several very interesting posts.

I agree that the Moroccan regime's alliance with the US has served it well, as has the even stronger alliance with France. But that's the regime. It has been a mixed blessing for the rest of Morocco: good relations with the US in trade etc is important, but it has also virtually removed pressure for reforms from the US, and so let Hassan II continue his near-medieval rule unchecked for decades. That kind of quiescence may be the attitude of an ally, but not of a friend of the country.

As for US media reporting, I don't think Morocco gets preferential treatment: there's generally very little reporting from the region.

Since Morocco has been "quiet" in American eyes -- no war since the W. Sahara ceasefire came into effect (and the media swiftly forgot that question; I would be surprised if the W. Post has reported on it at all in the last five years, despite that it's one of the major military occupations in the world), and no inflammatory conflict between the US and the government.

What little noise is made to fill the silence, comes largely from the government itself, promoting coverage of reforms, "moderate Islam" (that nasty term), tourism, etc.

One needs to see the media dynamic here. The Moroccan government nowadays is good at selling itself as pro-democratic (having effected real reform helps, of course, and one should not ignore what M6 has done, even if it is far from what they're trying to sell it as), which is exactly what the Western press is looking for -- a "good native" in the region. They employ a horde of PR people in the US, to work mainly but not exclusively the Western Sahara question. Such as Mr. Malley, in the comments above, whose website makes it clear he's working directly for the monarchy, but who pretends to be concerned for democracy in Morocco -- by smearing the democrats, like Mr. Jamaï.

I think that what Mr Jamai is trying to say, is that reforms in Kingdom of Morocco are not necessarily made with the speed that many educated moroccans were expecting. that is true, and I agree with him on this point, but is it a reason to denonce the only monarchy for that ? every single Morroccan is part of the change that we expect, even if the Moroccan legacy in terms of human rights or free expression do not encourage Moroccans yet to show a real engagement in order to realise this change. Now regarding the islamism influence in Morocco, it is not true to say that it is a systematic consequence of social or political exclusion, Morocco have a history of religious diversity and islamic activism that used to emerge each time the country encoutered social and political difficulties. Who can pretend the opposite ? I am shocked to read some people here trying to explain the problems in Morocco by social casts and ethnic origins and their supposed fight inside Morocco as a deep lecture of political problems in the country. casts or social differences as well as ethnic groups exists in Morocco and everywhere in the world, and that's a proof that we have a history, a deep culture and a social diversity...

if some supposed educated Moroccans are unable to make the difference between politics, democraty or History and society, even if they try to proof that they speak and write english fluently, that should be understood as a proof of the fail of manners and education they received by the casts of stupid and ignorant mentors they had !

I don't speak english as good as they do, but I can not imagine or accept that we still read, hear and see a supposed educated people talking like that of their country !

Saleh:

The Monarchy detains absolute power and it is not willing to let it go.

Do you understand that the King outlaws his self-proclaimed subjects, that is us, to criticize his policies even though he is the head of state?

We are not the King's slaves and never will be.

Historically, Morocco was ruled by some kind of federal system where tribes/regions were de-facto independent. That is, the Palace did not intervene in their lives or their local politics. For this reason, there was some kind of mutual respect and understanding.

Since the end of the French rule, the palace imposed itself in pretty much all parts of Morocco.

If the King wishes to be involved in the political process and wishes to contribute to Morocco's future, it is fine by us. I fully recognize the Monarchy's historical legitimacy.

But they should let people evaluate his performance without fear or intimidation. It is only fair and beneficial for both of us.

oops just got moderated out! Twice!

..try to read it here then:
http://mohblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/high-noon-bird-eye-view-of-owl-on.html#links

The brave people of Morocco is trapped between a monarchy sold to it's masters and a corrupt parties who are running after crumbs.

C'est du deja vu, nothing new under Jamaa Lafna skies, the facts are that Morocco lost the control of it's own destiny long time ago (we can go back to the treaty of Algegiras),it's obvious that the decision makers are not in Rabat but in Paris, London and Washington,D.C.

USFP or PJD, who ever win the election (both has the benediction of their beloved amirmouminin), their laverage is very limited and they will have to deal with the real world, all they can do is try their best to manage a crisis left by decades of missmanagement and centuries of governments left uncheked and unbalanced.

Below is my reply to your other post that I didn't get a chance to
address earlier. Thanks for reading.

1- Mixing religion with politics. In the west there are 2 models:
there is the Anglo-saxon model and the French model. The Anglo-saxon
model is less "rigid" than the French one and doesn't fear religion as
much the French one does. Some argue that the Anglo-saxon model is
more realistic. The French model considers some aspects of the
Anglo-saxon model a violation of laicite as the French understand it.
Now which one is better? Do Muslim nation have to choose between the
2, and only those 2 because the west came up with them? Our elites in
Morocco (who breath and sleep on French models), will tell you that
our model is the French. It doesn't matter to them that France has its
own historical context that influenced its ideals.

How do you convince average Moroccans that they can only chose from these 2 models?

2- Berbers in Morocco. If you can post the link from LECONOMIST, it
would be great. Most estimation that I read put the figure at 30-40%.
Perhaps you are confusing Moroccans who identify as Berbers vs
Moroccans who are "racially Berbers" (which is diverse). Being an Arab
is not a race. Most Moroccan-Arabs are racially Berbers who have been
Arabized within time.

Take the king himself. The Alaouites (ruling Monarchy) have followed a
tradition that dictated that the Sultan must marry a Berber woman.
Technically speaking, the King is Berber but he identifies as an Arab.
The current King was the first one to break away with this tradition.
Hassan II did speak Berber, not sure about the current monarch.

My last post is addressed to Amar.

Continued:

3- You claimed that most literate Moroccans do not understand Arabic
as it is written in newspapers and spoken on many programs in the
media. Now you might not understand it because it was never taught to
you. You however can read and write English, correct? So let me ask
you this: how did you master reading and writing English? Is English
used among Moroccans? Is it used in the media? is it used in the
streets of Morocco? The answer is no. You are able to read and write
English because it was taught to you in school for many years. That's
exactly how we Moroccans who attended public schools know Modern
Standard Arabic. I had Arabic classes every single year until I
graduated from High school, not to mention the books, magazines and
newspapers that I read AND the shows that I watched on TV since I was
a kid.

Modern monarchy is a moderating force. In mechanical words: It works as a sort of shimmy dampener against extremes. It is like the shocks on your car on a bumpy road! Maghribi monarchy is very important as a moderator during these bumpy and confusing times. It assures that knowlegable and skilled minds are at work for the nation. Populism is very dangerous in that emotional and or uninfomed, undiciplined minds may guide the country. Islamism is a form of populism, emotional and reactive.

As a stranger who has visited your beautiful Morocco several times in the past twenty years I found during my last visit (spring 05)a new energy (I was especially in Marrakech). This energy is probably due to the youthful age of the population. Perhaps because of the king's reforms on women's rights, manner of women's dress seems to be a choice for young women. Seeing many different attires in the same groups showed that each respects the other's choices. The economy was booming although there was still too much unemployment. The religion is sincere;it is touching to see the believers stop their activities to pray without fanfare. Those who don't pray respect the right of those who do. I believe in Morocco's future because of its people:kind,proud, tolerant knowing and cultured(not necessarily western culture).

Encinitas:

Populism is one of those labels that are now used to de-legitimatize a democratic process in non-western countries that become not so-friendly towards Western or US hegemony.

Hugo Chavez has been accused of populism and he just won the elections fair and square (his pro US-hegemony opponent accepted the defeat). This is going to be hard to swallow for some of the imperialist forces in Washington and their supporters in the Arab world, including in Morocco.

Perhaps you guys could come up with new rules for voters in those backward countries. Anyone who is suspected of voting with their emotions should be disqualified. In fact, why not just disqualify anyone who doesn't vote like you want them to. It is easier that way.

Iraq's "elections" which were conducted in a war zone in a volatile and hostile environment were hailed "democratic" and an example for all of us (and others) to follow. Really.

This elitism and this form of "enlighten dictatorship" will not stand.

Is it not a form of extremism to jail anyone who criticizes the King?

Is it not a form of extremism to ban anyone to discuss/debate the outrageous Palace's budget (which is more than Britain's and Spain's monarchies)?

The Moroccan leadership (Monarchy plus their corrupt allies in the government) has killed more Moroccans than any Islamist group in the country. This is obviously not a form of extremism.

Last year, the Moroccan leadership finally decided to let the victims of government abuse tell their stories to the Moroccan public but they couldn't name their abusers. Please tell me why this enlighten leadership wouldn't persecute these officials who ruined people's live? I guess it must be because it falls into the "emotions" category. It is "emotions" unless the one going to jail is some average Moroccan or some journalist who doesn't observe the rules.

to Karim. If the Monarchy allows the IER to reveal the identity of officials who persecuted, tortured and sometimes assassinated the victims of the black days of Morocco, This would be a suicide of the Monarchy ! FYI M. karim, everybody knows who are the officials who are designated by the IER and the victims...The press gave their names but not officially, and there are so many alive victims who knows very well who are they, but preferred to choose accalmy and moderation, wich can not be reproached to the victims themselfs ! Today, too many morroccans make the choice to build Morocco, avoid provocations and simply ignore the symbols of division and tension, including the victims of one of the most tragic stories of despotism in the arab world. Mr Karim, you have never beeing a victim, so why don't you try to help the people in Morocco who are doing so, building the country and giving a better image of the country to young generations ? do you have personnal motivation to talk and never act ? if you are sincere M.karim, I think you will not have difficulties to understand what is happening in Morocco, and you will sincerely join the rank of beleivers in better futur in Morocco.
Sincerely !

Nour,

Thanks for joining us.

The purpose of naming the abusers is not for revenge but rather for true reconciliation. The ultimate goal would be to make sure that these violations never happen again.

No one seems to agree about what constitutes a better Morocco.

The Monarchy believes it means a modernized country in which it can keep its status, the elites believe it means a liberal western-like country, and the Islamists look more for an Islamic country.

Who gets to make that decision?

I have just a comment about Jami positions... He has a lot of extremism and little of moderation.
I want to remind you that you were within the makhzen machinery when your father was a member of Allal fassi part, It's ridicule to read what you write now. You are just adolecent democrate.

To Mostafa :

Why Aboubakr Jamaï would have to follow his father's way ?? He has HIS personal view of things, and he says what he really thinks : he represents freedom in Morocco.

Alger Le 12 octobre 2006

LETTRE D'UN GUEUX PAGE
A
UN DESPOTE ROTURIER

MAJESTE,

Honneur de porter à votre connaissance que je suis un citoyen marocain , âgé de 46 ans, célibataire, militant des droits de l'homme, républicain démocrate, journaliste freelancer répondant au pseudonyme de MOURAD DEGAULLE alias KADDOUR ERRAMI. Et comme vous le savez très bien, je suis actuellement réfugié en algérie.
Majesté,
A partir de 1975, j'ai milité pour la liberté, la justice et l'égalité des marocains, au sein de la gauche marxiste , dans la perspective de voir un Maroc meilleur, prospère et juste ; Ces valeurs nobles et morales ne cachaient nullement l'intention de déstabiliser notre pays, ni à renverser votre régime. Mais comme votre père et son entourage avaient un acharnement absolutiste du pouvoir, il a appliqué un maccartisme à la marocaine. Votre père a tué des innocents, beaucoup plus qu'on vous ont raconté ceux qui essayent de muter les réalités, et qui vivent toujours dans votre giron. Cette réalité Majesté, vous ne la trouverez aucunement chez ceux qui essayent de vous faire croire que vous avez réalisé un changement effectif, ceux qui vous font de la spéculation de l'espoir, ceux qui vous tracent le contour d'un Maroc en rose.
Votre papa Majesté, a tué tout ce qui est beau dans notre pays. Il a tué l'homme, Il a métamorphosé la femme, Il a profané la loi, Il a bafoué les libertés, Il a trituré le peuple, il a volé nos rêves pour lesquels nos parents ont chassé la colonisation et ont intronisés vos aïeuls, il nous a fait une constitution à sa mesure qui renie nos droits naturels, il a détourné nos richesses, il a tué nos enfants et nos dieux.
Et finalement, et après beaucoup de sacrifices de notre jeunesse pétulante, et après avoir découvert que le peuple se trouve entre charybde et Sylla, et n'a plus que deux issus, émigrer ou mourir dans ses geôles ; et de peur de rester seul dans cet immense et beau pays, sans esclaves comme il nous considérait, et comme vous nous considérez vous-même, du moment que votre constitution que vous maintenez toujours nous considère ainsi, votre papa a décidé d'effectuer un de ses miracles coups magiques : La démocratie et le changement.
Majesté,
Vous savez que le changement pour lequel avait opté votre père, et vous avez continuer à pratiquer, n'est que de la manipulation simpliste qui ne dupe personne, même pas des fillettes de quatorze ans, que vous avez arrêtées et incarcérées, pour tentative de renversement du pouvoir, votre pouvoir absolu.
La réconciliation que vous avez inventée, n'est qu'une fuite en avant, car elle n'a jamais fait l'objet de nos sollicitations, et vous l'avez exécutée d'une manière parodique et burlesque, avec l'aide des nouveaux judas de la nation, que votre père a élevé dans ses geôles auparavant, et qui jouaient le rôle de courtisans et rabatteurs entre votre père et les hommes intègres.
Aujourd'hui, vous les avez utilisés comme chevaux de bataille pour leurrer les opinions, et faire croire au monde entier que votre despotisme a évolué, que les marocains sont heureux sous votre règne, que nos droits ont été rendus, que nous avons une liberté d'expression, que les marocains sont tous égaux, et que celui qui gouverne au Maroc est responsable de ses actes devant le peuple et ses représentants, que les richesses du Maroc sont partagées équitablement entre ses enfants.
La réconciliation que vous avez exécutée, Majesté, restera une bévue et une horreur sur le front du Maroc, c'était une seconde trahison à l'encontre du peuple marocain après cette indépendance tant regrettée. La première était juste après le départ des colons français, lorsque vos parents se sont accaparés du pouvoir, ont tué tous les artisans de la résistance, ont usurpé le pouvoir, ont expropriés toutes les terres fertiles qui appartenaient au peuple avant le protectorat, et enfin ils ont instauré une constitution archaïque, esclavagiste et totalitaire : une anomie.
Vos parents majesté, nous ont réduit à la servitude d'antan et celle des républiques bananières.
Votre réconciliation dont vous vous vantez, n'est qu'une corruption et une division de la populace victime des exactions et des tripotages et malversations et gabegie de votre père. Vous avez crée une nouvelle souche sociale de voyous, d'arriviste et d'aventuriers politiques et des cerbères de garde.
Vous n'avez fait que corrompre et acheter des minables et perfides vendables pour essuyer les génocides qu'a commis votre père, au détriment d'un peuple qui a été démuni, appauvrit, asservit et réduit pendant quarante ans.
Par ce comportement, vous ne deviez pas trop loin des manipulations de votre père. Lui il utilisait la violence dans sa dictature, et vous le mensonge et l'hypocrisie dans votre démocratie, mais le résultat est toujours le même, rester au pouvoir et voler nos richesses, profaner nos croyances et nous mettre dans le dépotoir de l'histoire.
Durant ces années de votre règne, je peux vous citer autant d'exemples que vous voulez, qui prouvent que votre politique n'est pas meilleure que celle adoptée par votre père, et comme je ne peux pas vous envoyer toute une bible, je ne vous citerai que quelques exemples :
- Les quinze employés de la société de transport urbain de Casablanca qui ont été écrasés par leur propre patron moyennant d'un bus, car ils étaient en grève et empêchaient ce patron de faire travailler des substituts. Vous les avez envoyés à la morgue, avec un sans froid. Et l'assassin a été interné dans un centre de psychiatrie pour une durée déterminée. L'état d'Israël en aurait fait un deuil national.
- Les habitants de la banlieue de Casablanca appelée « Haraouiyine », que vos escadrons de la mort ont encer