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Divorce by Text Message

Last week defenders of Islamic law received a publicity blow when a Malaysian court evoked Sharia law to allow a man to divorce his wife by text message.

Yes, text message. As in: "Am dvrcng u".

The decision was, quite rightly, condemned by women's rights groups in Malaysia, who say to condone such frivolity with Islamic law highlights the way it is inherently bias towards men and leaves women with the short end of the stick.

Under Sharia law, a man can divorce a woman simply by announcing his intentions. This is followed by a three month "cooling off" period before the divorce can be finalized, to create an opportunity for resolution. However, if a woman wants a divorce, she must go before a court to seek a divorce, and she must prove her husband has an inadequacy - usually impotency or extended absence. If not, she has no right to divorce him.

Sharia law has its roots in the 7th century Koran, and in personal examples set by Prophet Mohammed. Islamists who see themselves defending the faith have ignored calls to change this legal system to reflect the improvement in women's status in the modern world, saying that God's word stands the test of time.

The irony of this text message ruling is that it subverts both liberals' desire for more modern interpretations of the Koran (you don't get much more modern in the Islamic world than divorce by text message) and Islamists' own goal to uphold the seriousness of marriage.

The issue of text-messaged divorces has been a long-standing topic of debate among feminists and a new, tech-savvy generation of Islamists both here and elsewhere in the Islamic world.

Many Islamic countries, including Malaysia have had long-standing amendments to family law, requiring divorces be brought before a court. But as in many countries, Sharia courts and their rulings have steadily encroached onto state legal systems.

Norhayati Kaprawi, a program director at Sisters in Islam, a Malaysian NGO, said this latest divorce ruling represents a worrying erosion of women's rights in her country, coinciding with the rise of an Islamist political party that won almost a third of the vote in recent parliamentary elections.

"Court rulings like this over text messages, and earlier ones facilitating polygamous marriages, send a pretty clear message to men that they can treat women disrespectfully and get away with it," said Kaprawi.

Dr Abdul Hamid Othman, the government's adviser on religious affairs, was quoted by the New Straits Times daily newspaper defending the text message approach as "another form of writing."

But for Karprawi and thousands of women like her, a text-message is belittling.

"Whilst many women and men court each by text message in Malaysia, ending a marriage requires a lot more careful deliberation than a few taps on a mobile phone."

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Comments (86)

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Observer:

SK claims:
“Prophet Muhammad married Khadijah, who was previously divorced, to break the taboo in pre-Islamic Arabia of men marrying divorced women.”

Are you kidding? He married this divorcee who was twenty years his senior because she was rich and had a thriving business that he wanted to control. There were plenty of younger divorcees he could have picked from if his aim was simply “to break a taboo".

AMH:

Nouri sarcastically alleges:
“I bet Iraq was a country full of Terrorists when it was invaded on the basis of false fabricated information and supported in this ill advised adventure by Extremist right wing fundamentalist.”

I shall repeat for the hundredth time the story of Iraq.
Saddam Hussein thought to intimidate his neighbors, especially Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, by telling them and others in the region that he had weapons of mass destruction. Those Arab leaders lost no time in turning around and passing this information onto us. We were not about to fold our hands and wait till mushroom clouds begin to rise up over our cities. Stop your whining and get over it. You and your ilk are simply fishing for excuses to discredit the USA. I don’t know what is it with this obsession unless it is the jealousy of the weak and poor to the strong and rich.

Apostate:

Ayman Fadel asserts:
“al-Tabari's methodology in his history was to compile narrations and place them in a chronological order, without regard to those narrations' authenticity."

You claim that the Hadith according to Tabari is not authentic. The Koranics claim that all Hadiths are unauthentic. That leaves only the Quran. This book says if it has contradictions it could not be from Allah. It does have plenty of contradictions . What does that leave you with?
When are you and your ilk going to open your eyes and minds and relize that you have been duped for 14 hundred years?

Seeker:

Maybe the upside of this ruling for Malaysian women is that they have written evidence of the declaration of divorce. That way, their husbands can't torment them with threats of divorce that the men then deny.

Babs:

I really don't understand how by typing "Am dvrcng u" that a marriage is null and void.
How are we supposed to know that the husband was the one who sent it?
I could have easily borrowed your phone and send a similar message. Who's the wiser?
What if it was just a joke?
What if it was just sent in a moment of fury?
What if it was just sent so that the man can get away from his duties as a husband?

This post doesnt really discuss the mechanics of such a divorce
Or Maybe cell phone companies there in Malaysia offer special divirce text packages!

And for the ignorant person who said Mohammad married Khadija for her money, let me give you the lowdown----Mohammad made business trips for Khadija. These business dealings always made good profit, so Khadija, the srewed businesswoman that she was, offered to enter a marriage contract with Mohammad. This way she gains a very capable COO that will expand the business while she goes into semi-retirement. DUH! Totally a business case study!
And all this happend way before Mohammad received God's word.

Anonymous:

Long ago Demosthenes had written:

"We keep prostitutes for pleasure; we keep mistresses for the day to day needs of the body; we keep wives for the begetting of children and for the faithful guardianship of our homes. So long as a man supported his wife and family there was no shame whatsoever in extra- marital affairs."
C. Swindoll, Sanctity of Life, Word, 1990, p. 62

And yet this gullible naive Jack Fairweather couldnt resist the temptation to sink his teeth into Islam as if this is the position of Islam concerning Divorce.

Before cleaning other's people houses, start with your own backyard!

SK:

Prophet Muhammad (PBUM) married Khadijah, who was previously divorced, to break the taboo in pre-islamic Arabia of men marrying divorced women.

Secondly, in a muslim marriage, bride is asked, before she signs the marriage agreement, if she wants to attain the power to exercise divorce along side of men.

Anonymous:

Top 10 Countries in the World with the highest level of divorce:

1 United States: 4.95 per 1,000 people
2 Puerto Rico: 4.47 per 1,000 people
3 Russia: 3.36 per 1,000 people
4 United Kingdom: 3.08 per 1,000 people
5 Denmark: 2.81 per 1,000 people
6 New Zealand: 2.63 per 1,000 people
7 Australia: 2.52 per 1,000 people
8 Canada: 2.46 per 1,000 people
9 Finland: 1.85 per 1,000 people
10 Barbados: 1.21 per 1,000 people

Anonymous:

Blaine Barrett,
Muslims are not a monolith. your intro to what Wafa said as well as what she said assumes muslims are one and their thought/actions are similar. muslims are not robots.
the argument would have been stronger had you delimit the 'type' of muslims who are anti every and all things reasonable.

NS:

Too lettery?
URX

Burne-Jones :

We are reading a lot of fake news these days. Did you remember the news about Britney's pregnancy, Lindsay's joining on the famous rich men seeking affairs """"""C e l e b C u p i d.c o m""""""""? Is this news true or not? who knows...

Blaine Barrett:

I decided you should see this it might have meaning for you

What follows is probably the most intelligent assessment of the actual cause of todays conflict between Muslims and everybody else, no favourites.

The following is my transcript of English sub-titles taken from an original Arab language broadcast on Al Jazeera Qatar TV Feb.21, 2006 that someone bless them finally posted on the Web for the world to see.
It is the translation of a partial TV interview with
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan. This is one smart lady

It can still be seen and heard at if the Saudi’s haven’t blasted it off by now.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=
taken from a clip fron

Wafa: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions or of civilizations.
 It’s a clash between two opposites two, eras.
 It’s a clash between a mentality that belongs in the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs in the 21st Century.
 It’s a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.
 It’s a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship.
 It’s a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights on the other.
 It’s a clash between those who treat women like beasts and those who treat them as human beings.

What we seem today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash but compete.

Moderator: I understand from your words that what is happening today is the clash between the culture of the West and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa: Yes, that is what I mean.

Moderator: Who came up with the clash of nations. Was it not Samuel Huntington?
It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue if you don’t mind.

Wafa: The Muslims were the ones who began using this expression
The Muslims were the ones who began this clash of civilizations.
The Prophet of Islam said
“ I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and his Messenger”
When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims and called to fight the others until they believe what they themselves believe, they started this clash and began this war.

In order to stop this war, they must re-examine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.

My colleague has said that he never offends other people’s beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people names they did not choose for themselves? Once he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them “People of the Book.” and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians “those who incur Allah’s wrath”. Who told you they are People of the Book?

They are not the People of the Book, they are the people of many books.
All the useful scientific books you have today are theirs and the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them “those who incur Allah’s wrath”? or” those who have gone astray?” and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the belief of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural but I respect others right to believe in it.

Imam: Are you a heretic?
Wafa: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does no0t believe in the supernatural.


Imam: If you are a heretic there is no point in rebuking you since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran.

Wafa: These are personal matters and don’t concern you. Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you don’t throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people’s beliefs are not your concern. Whether they believe in the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people hyave their beliefs.

The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust) and forced the world to respect them with their knowledge, not with their terror: with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th Centuries to Jewish scientists.

15 million people scattered throughout the world united and won their rights through work and knowledge.

We have not seen one Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant.
We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church.
We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people.

The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble.
We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim or burn down an embassy.

Only Muslims defend their faith by burning down churches, and killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results

The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind before they demand that humankind respect them.

At this point the tape ended, but I wonder where it’s been hiding the last two years?

She’s the only one telling it like it is as a matter of fact and not just opinion.

Anonymous:

The truth that women in Arabia had more liberty and authority before Islam than after it can also be evinced from the fact that Khadijah, the Prophet’s first wife had a business of her own and had many men at her service. Muhammad, in fact was but one of her employees. Do we have any tale of women after Islam, running their own business and hiring men to work for them?

For Muhammad women were nothing more than sex objects. It did not matter if they were young children. Aisha was only nine when he bedded her. It is reported that he refused to shake hands with them. And when they came to give their allegiance he delegated Umar for a such task. What is so sexual about a simple shake hand? Perhaps the Prophet was torn between his sexual impulses and his religious ideals. Something must have happened in his mind that made him feel guilty when he touched women.

The holy Prophet also thought that women are deficient in intelligence and the majority of them will go to hell because they are ungrateful, not to Allah, but to their husbands. Here is what he said.


Bukhari Volume 2, Book 24, Number 541:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

Ted Baines:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:
I had been eager to ask 'Umar about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said (in the Qur'an saying): If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes) (66.4), till performed the Hajj along with 'Umar (and on our way back from Hajj) he went aside (to answer the call of nature) and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler of water. When he had answered the call of nature and returned. I poured water on his hands from the tumbler and he performed ablution. I said, "O Chief of the believers! ' Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet to whom Allah said:

'If you two return in repentance (66.4)? He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn 'Abbas. They were Aisha and Hafsa."

Then 'Umar went on relating the narration and said. "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiya bin Zaid who used to live in 'Awali Al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turns. He used to go one day, and I another day. When I went I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the instructions and orders and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the ansar, we noticed that the ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the ansari women. Once i shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and i disliked that she should answer me back.She said, 'Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.' What she said scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.' …

Ted Baines:

Ayman Fadel


The divorces of Muhammad and his sexual relationships with children are described in Sirat RasulAllah by Ibn Ishaq, the first biography of Muhammad and the most reliable. Tabari came later and borrowed from Ishaq. Fatima Mernissi in her book Behind the Veil confirms that Muhammad was divorced. In fact before Islam corrupted the Arabian peninsula women even had the right to multiple simultaneous spouses. Muhammad took that right away but let men keep four wives and an unlimited number of concubines. Had Khadija been in a position to inherit after Muhammadanism struck Arabia she would never be the rich woman she was because before Moe spoiled it for all Muslim women women could inherit in equal amount to their male siblings. She also got all of her dead husbands' wealth.

Observer:

Nouri lists a number of grievances against the present US administration, Evangelicals, US foreign military bases and foreign policies. This is typical of his cult; they play the part of the victim, to excuse their sorry state of affairs. They never make a mistake and all that violence and other sins against the others, whether Hindu,, Christians or Jews is a direct result of the others actions. That was the exact attitude of those who slammed into the Twin towers. They truly believe the world owes them a much better position in life than they are getting, and blame that ”injustice” on the others, and never on themselves. This is the personality trait of those suffering from paranoia. They are indoctrinated to believe that at one time they were the masters of the ancient world, and simply could not accept their present humiliating status. If this happens to a person most likely would become mentally ill.
America is the only superpower on this planet and has a wide range of interests that span the globe. America needs to protect its interests, and the sooner you and those who think like you accept the present world order the better you will feel. .

Ayman Fadel:

Ted Baines's comment of August 9, 2008 6:07 AM contained assertions from an anti-Islam polemical web site, faithfreedom.org. The basis for most of this web site's accusations against the Messenger Muhammad salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam is a misreading of al-Tabari's Taarikh al-rusul wa al-muluuk. This book is available on line at alwaraq.net. The State University of New York Press translation ("The History of al-Tabari) is available at http://www.sunypress.edu/details.asp?id=61520. The polemical web site's position on al-Tabari and why Muslims don't understand their own religion is expressed at http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/JenniferKing50710.htm.

al-Tabari's methodology in his history was to compile narrations and place them in a chronological order, without regard to those narrations' authenticity. By providing the sources for each of his assertions, he assumed that others more knowledgeable in the study of narrations would cull the stronger narrations from the weaker.

I hope we can keep the focus on women's actual lives in different parts of the world, not on religious polemics. Trust me, when a husband is beating his wife or choosing not to support his kids, he's not reading the Bible or the Quran or Quinn or The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance or anything else.

Nouri:

"Nouri, face it: These aren't Unitarian suicide bombers we see all over the world. They are muslims, and "the real" muslims are responsible for their actions by their failure to speak out against them.
Convince me that we have nothing to fear from islam and I'll take back everything i've said. Dress it up any way you want, but you are deceiving yourself about the true face of islam. You need to open your mind.
billm"

My friend it is not my fault if you are blind and you cannot see what 8 years of NEOCONISM have done to humanity at large from Muslims to Non Muslims.

My disgust with Extremist is apparant here to be seen by every single contributor whether this extremism comes from Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus or else!

I bet Iraq was a country full of Terrorists when it was invaded on the basis of false fabricated information and supported in this ill advised adventure by Extremist right wing fundamendalits Evangelists whose hate towards Islam is ell documented and well known by all!

The misery that this illegal occupation inflicted on millions of Iraqis who were supposed to be protected -not just those living in the green Zone- and yet they were left to their own devices and this is contrary to Geneva's occupation protocols!

I do not need to remidn you about the repuation of the image of the US Administration worldwide not just in the Muslim World but from Africa to Asia to South and Central America. I do not also need to remind you about Abu Ghraib, Guatanamo Bay and Bush / Cheney and their War Crimes against innocent civilians in the Middle East.

Muslims do not possess hundred of military bases around the world going dictating to sovereign countries how to conduct their businesses in an aggressive way via corruptions, bribes, intimidations or threats.

Muslims are not basing their military fleet outside US shores and threatening the security of the USA. Furthermore they are not stationed in Canada or Mexico and supporting one ethnic group over another one from Hispanic to Black and stating that they want to see true freedom and democracy to ordinary US citizens not the Top 1% of the population that controls more than 50% of the US Wealth.

Muslims are not insulting Jesus, Mary the Virgin or other Messengers of God and the faith is keeping its dignity by not allowing itself to go down to the gutter as shon by the likes of Pat Robertson and other corrupt mercenaries who are full of hate, corruption and who have never set themsleves as good example for other fellow Christians so that leaders of these Mega Chrches will be followed by genuine Christians. We all know about their infidelity stories, frauds and crocodile tears!

The Warmongers, Cabals and Neocons are not Muslims and Islam doesnt allow them to behave in such manner.

AS A MUSLIM I SAYS IT LOUD AND CLEAR BIN LADEN AND HIS LIKES HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER TO ISLAM AND ARE NOT MUSLIM SCHOLARS THAT CAN TEACH THE 1.6 BILLION OF MUSLIMS HOW TO LIVE THIER PEACEFUL LIVES AND WILL BE NEVER LISTENED TO AND IGNORED UNLIKE THE FOX NEWS WHO LOVE TO PROMOTE THEM, SURPRISE SUPRISE!

I WISH THE US CITIZENS CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH THEIR US ADMINISTRATION AND IMPEACH THE LIKES OF BUSH, CHENEY, PERLE, RUMSFELD AND THEIR FELLOW WARMONGERS, CABALS AND CORPORATIONS PROFITEERS WHO AT THE EXPENSE OF THOUSANDS OF US SOLDIERS BLOOD AND HUNDRED OF THOUSANDS OF IRAQIS INNOCENT CIVILIANS TURNED A BLIND EYE TO SUCH HORRIFIC CRIMES IN ORDER TO PICK UP A FIST OF DOLLARS!

Ted Baines:

Before Muhammad imposed Muhammadanism aka Islam on Arabia, Arab women could also divorce their husbands by the simple pronouncement of the word "Talaaq" and they would use the applicable idol (Allah, Hubal, Manat etc) to legitimize the divorce. Muhammad divorced one of his wives because she contracted leprosy and he did not wish to take care of her. She was sent back to her tribe and family.

After that two of his child wives, both barely into their teens, divorced him because he was too old for them, in his fifties, and found him unattractive and domineering.

It was the humiliation by the two teenagers that prompted Muhammad to take away the right of divorce by women but retained that right for Muslim men.

It is extremely difficult for a Muslim women in a Muslim country to get a divorce. The khula process is very complicated and the wife has to give up many of her privileges including any bride price that was paid at the time of marriage.

Observer:

Nouri asserts:
“Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) advised Muslims to choose a wife on the basis of her piety. Someone may choose a wife for her wealth, beauty, or high family, but all these qualities may disappear.”

If that is what your prophet truly believed why did he marry Khadija; a two time divorced woman twenty years his senior, if it were not for her wealth? You do not seem to have much respect for the knowledge of the readers.

BobP:

A Roman Catholic can get divorced without penalty -- he or she just can't get remarried.

whm99:

Nouri,

A realistic fear of islam in 2008 is no more unreasonable than a realistic fear of the nazis would have been in 1939.

If you are honest with yourself, you will admit that virtually all terrorists are muslims. You must also admit that "the real" muslims never speak out against islamist terrorists, presumably out of fear of reprisal or by adherence to scripture. The failure of "the real" muslims in not denouncing islamist terrorists makes them complicit. The only muslim demonstrations we ever see are those against westerners who believe in free speech, freedom of the press, and equality. Death to cartoonists who dare show an image of the alleged prophet -- give me a break.

You may think I'm an islamophobe, but I guarantee the next terrorist attack you read about will be carried out by muslims. I further guarantee that there will be no outcry against it in the islamic world. I will also guarantee that the next demonstration by muslims will be against western intolerance of islam -- the intolerant complaining of intolerance.

Until "the real" muslims have the courage to take a stand, the true face of islam will be one of repression, chauvinism, mind control, the murder of non-believers and those who abandon or are critical of the "faith". Am I wrong in thinking that stoning, beheading, and honor killing are islamic practices? Don't those images of young boys bobbing their heads as they mindlessly recite and memorize koranic verse they don't understand make you profoundly sad?

Nouri, face it: These aren't Unitarian suicide bombers we see all over the world. They are muslims, and "the real" muslims are responsible for their actions by their failure to speak out against them.

Convince me that we have nothing to fear from islam and I'll take back everything i've said. Dress it up any way you want, but you are deceiving yourself about the true face of islam. You need to open your mind.

billm

BeowulfthePolitican:

Anonymous wrote:
senseless religion & Beowulfthepolitican

you selfish ones! due to your faith, you have hijacked the topic. it is not about your religion or how you look at religion, generally....

it is about technology and islam.

stick to the topic, please.


----------------------

LoL! Duly noted. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program, "Divorce Text Messaging is bad, ummkay?"

senseless religion:

Beowulfthepolitican[sic]:

very touching and eloquent explanation of the positive aspects of a belief in the unprovable/invisible/unexplainable. True, belief in something 'beyond" has always plagued humanity as it takes time to investigate the causes that end up in effects in this world. And if
"faith" makes people help out and have hope....all the better. But clearly, "faith" being so mysterious and not bound by empirical or physical proof, lends itself to all sorts of misguided interpretations that end up in consequences like the one discussed in this topic (happy anonymous???).

I think I could find common ground with Beowulf somewhere....:-)


Anonymous:

senseless religion & Beowulfthepolitican

you selfish ones! due to your faith, you have hijacked the topic. it is not about your religion or how you look at religion, generally....

it is about technology and islam.

stick to the topic, please.

BeowulfthePolitican:

Hello Senseless:

I believe faith in God can be used for an incredible amount of good in this world. How many countless faith-based charities, feed the hungry, take in orphans, & nurse the sick? It can be a tremendous vehicle of change. True Religion gives hope to the down-trodden, comfort to the bereaved, inspiration to the noble-hearted, & eternal incentive to love your neighbor as yourself.

If you delete religion from the fabric of humanity, you would be short-changing 100s of millions of people who's lives have been irreversibly changed for the better as a result. (Of which I am one.)

I believe firmly in the separation of Church & State to maintain that religious freedom, as true religion (as previously defined) does not require governmental compulsion. Concurrently, the State should have nothing to fear from True Religion either. Thus, my bone to pick with China.

senseless religion:

Beowulfthepolitican [sic]:

Could agree more with the following statements:

"Simply removing God won't remove the greed and lust for power inherent in Men"

"Men do not need religion to subjugate one another. Scarce resources and greed is the single greatest cause of war in the history of mankind. Religion just makes for a convenient rallying cry."

But you must agree also that religion "fuels the masses"...

cheers

BeowulfthePolitican:

senseless religion wrote:
Beowulfthepolitican [sic]:

what the hell does china have to do with this argument? They have their own 4000 year old paternalistic confucionistic heritage to deal with....

Don't equate ignorance or traditionalistic custom to atheism. That's just a cheap (and very old and used) shot.

The moment a cult starts dictating behaviour based on some delusional mythology and builds a whole 'church" infrastructure around that (be it islam, xtianity, or whatever) we will find invariably a male-centric paternalistic doctrine.

It's all "human...all to human"
---------------------------

There's no confusion, Senseless. China's Atheistic policy of no religious expression has been on display in various WaPo articles today. Your narrow-minded attempts to paint belief in God as "nonsense" imply that a godless society by default would lead to a society of "thoughtful conscientious humans". Simply removing God won't remove the greed and lust for power inherent in Men.

China is a stellar modern example of that principle. The worship of the State. Perhaps you're just tired of hearing it, but the description, however "old, cheap, & very used shot", is quite valid.

Men do not need religion to subjugate one another. Scarce resources and greed is the single greatest cause of war in the history of mankind. Religion just makes for a convenient rallying cry.

Apostate:


HMM claims:
“but being a gay in most Islamic states like Iran will get you executed by public hanging.”

Homosexuality is prevalent in Muslim countries, especially those in the Arabian peninsula. This could have sociological causes such as complete isolation of the sexes and the long years between puberty and marriage. It is also culturally condoned. Abu Nuwas, a famous Arab poet, has many popular poems in which he praises the homosexual acts. Many men in those cultures publicly indulge in such acts as a testimonial to their ”masculinity”. The beautiful young lads who serve the faithful in the Muslim Paradise are there for more than serving wine. Many historians believe that the founder of Islam inserted those in his description of Paradise to entice his homosexual friends.

senseless religion:

Beowulfthepolitican [sic]:

what the hell does china have to do with this argument? They have their own 4000 year old paternalistic confucionistic heritage to deal with....

Don't equate ignorance or traditionalistic custom to atheism. That's just a cheap (and very old and used) shot.

The moment a cult starts dictating behaviour based on some delusional mythology and builds a whole 'church" infrastructure around that (be it islam, xtianity, or whatever) we will find invariably a male-centric paternalistic doctrine.

It's all "human...all to human"

Anonymous:

None of these can be claimed to be explicit biblical grounds for a divorce according to the Bible:
spousal abuse (emotional or physical), child abuse (emotional, physical, or sexual), addiction to pornography, drug / alcohol use, crime / imprisonment, and mismanagement of finances (such as through a gambling addiction)

The Bible gives two clear grounds for divorce: (1) sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32; 19:9) and (2) abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Corinthians 7:15). Even in these two instances, though, divorce is not required or even encouraged. The most that can be said is that sexual immorality and abandonment are grounds (an allowance) for divorce. Confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration are always the first steps. Divorce should only be viewed as a last resort.

Top 10 Countries in the World with the highest level of divorce:

1 United States: 4.95 per 1,000 people
2 Puerto Rico: 4.47 per 1,000 people
3 Russia: 3.36 per 1,000 people
4 United Kingdom: 3.08 per 1,000 people
5 Denmark: 2.81 per 1,000 people
6 New Zealand: 2.63 per 1,000 people
7 Australia: 2.52 per 1,000 people
8 Canada: 2.46 per 1,000 people
9 Finland: 1.85 per 1,000 people
10 Barbados: 1.21 per 1,000 people

I am surprised I thought Christians are the happiest in the 21st Century and thus the level of divorce must be the lowest :)

Long ago Demosthenes had written:

"We keep prostitutes for pleasure; we keep mistresses for the day to day needs of the body; we keep wives for the begetting of children and for the faithful guardianship of our homes. So long as a man supported his wife and family there was no shame whatsoever in extra- marital affairs."
C. Swindoll, Sanctity of Life, Word, 1990, p. 62

And yet this gullible naive Jack Fairweather couldnt resist the temptation to sink his teeth into Islam as if this is the position of Islam concerning Divorce.

Before cleaning other's people houses, start with your own backyard!



Anonymous:

Anonymous @August 8, 2008 10:28 AM: Careful ... McCain is paying people to post on these blogs.

;)

Anonymous:

"Anonymous:
Well, Gingrich delivered divorce papers to his wife in the hospital, and one of Giulliani's wives found out she was being divorced from the news reports. Why, then do we have a problem with texting?"

Not to mention the way McCain divorced his first wife in order to be with his plastic doll, Cindy!

His first wife had to wait for him whilst he was emprisoned in Vietnam and as soon as he was liberated, was her grateful, did he has any grounds for divorce, let me think ohhhh NO and yet this US Presidential Candidate is not setting agood example of a marital life!

I am sure Muslims can learn a lot from his this divorcee example! :) Sorry couldnt help it lol

Robert B:

T Boyer talks of being "theologically advanced" What's that? No doubt in the worlds eyes (to include T Boyer's) that means something along the lines of what Unitarians believe...in other words 'whatever'!! No real Creed, no rules, just come and hang out! It's all good!

But the heart of the true Gospel is still that we are all sinners and estranged from God and that Christ died to atone for our sins. Islam has nothing in its theology about a dying and rising Savior and being in fellowship with the Lord. Anyone who cannot see the difference between Christianity and Islam..and their cultures..is just ignorant. But there is no use in going into all this...the Boyer types out there simply get their kicks disparaging orthodox Christian faith and whine that it picks on the girls!! Boo, hoo!!

Anonymous:

Wouldn't it be "M dvrcng u"? After all every little stroke counts.

BeowulfthePolitican:

senseless religion:
It is just incredible to me that after almost 2000 years of christianity's childlike beliefs and almost 1400 years of islam's delusions we are nitpicking on how these 2 male centric dogmas belittle women.
Out with God and all this nonsense. Start thinking and behaving as thoughtful conscientious humans!

Please!

------------------------

You mean like Enlightened Atheist China? No thanks. I'd prefer to cling to my religion and guns instead.

senseless religion:

It is just incredible to me that after almost 2000 years of christianity's childlike beliefs and almost 1400 years of islam's delusions we are nitpicking on how these 2 male centric dogmas belittle women.
Out with God and all this nonsense. Start thinking and behaving as thoughtful conscientious humans!

Please!

T Boyer:

Yes, Sharia law is a Dark Ages artifact.

But if we want to speak of gender equity and great religions, the discussion ought to include the major U.S. religions, which are a long way from gender equity. Catholicism and most evangelical Christianity still basically preach that God's intentions are made known to women through men, to wives primarily through their husbands. Some of our major religious leaders, James Dobson for example, still preach that women were created to bear children and obey their husbands.

And of course the Catholic Church continues to insist that God's intentions can only be divined by a priesthood of men who have never even made love to a woman. Granted, the Catholic Church, unlike Islam, has given up the idea of convert-or-die. But theologically is the Catholic Church really that much more advanced than Islam?

BeowulfthePolitican:

Fuji wrote:

Fabio Baqueiro:
I am not a Muslim, but considering Islam provided a way to divorce from the 7th century on, while Christianity is still at odds with it (it is forbidden to Catholics), it is really surprising someone tries to portrait Islam as backwards.

== Fabio, I am Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church provides for annulment, not divorce. Of course, a Catholic CAN get divorced without annulment (which the Church almost always grants), but if the person does so, they are not supposed to receive communion. It is not excommunication or anything. I should add that the Catholic Church tries to uphold Christ's teachings on marriage and divorce -- better I think, than other denominations. But we've been at it longer, eh?

--------------------

A. There's no such thing as "annulment" in Christianity. Much like most of Catholic doctrine, it's a figment of your Canon-ical imaginations, as there is no New Testament precedent for it.

B. The only thing you've "been at it longer" than is perverting our religion through crusades, inquisitions, imaginary doctrines of papal infalliblity, Mary Worship, Dead "Saint" & Idol Worship, & Church-sanctioned pedaphilia. (Just to name a few.) I have met more atheists, agnostics, and converts to OTHER religions that started out Catholic, than any other denomination of Christianity. Catholicism shrinks while True Christianity grows thanks to your Hubris and Doctrinal Bungling.

C. To uphold Catholicism to the Muslim Community as true Christianity is the largest Straw Man fallacy the world has ever seen.

hikmet:

not important shape of divorce. An important thing what are the rights spouses eachother. what are the childrens to be.

Mhmd:

"Am dvrcng u"?

Too lettery. How about "go 4evr"?

Fuji:

Maybe the whole "sibling rivalry" between the three monotheist religions is pretty pointless? We'd better learn to get along with each other in the short while that we're here.

-- Tell it to the muslims, Julia. Christians and Jews aren't killing each other in the name of God. Muslism regularly kill for God. Witness what's happened in China just over the last two weeks. It's barbarous.

Fuji:

Sensi:
Can I remind people here that divorce was forbidden in Catholic's Ireland until 1996? Alright.

-- Alright, what? Ireland was (and still is) largely Catholic. The Catholic Church provides for annulment ... Annulments are granted by tribunals of lay people. I know -- my dad was on such a tribunal.

Fuji:

Fabio Baqueiro:
I am not a Muslim, but considering Islam provided a way to divorce from the 7th century on, while Christianity is still at odds with it (it is forbidden to Catholics), it is really surprising someone tries to portrait Islam as backwards.

== Fabio, I am Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church provides for annulment, not divorce. Of course, a Catholic CAN get divorced without annulment (which the Church almost always grants), but if the person does so, they are not supposed to receive communion. It is not excommunication or anything. I should add that the Catholic Church tries to uphold Christ's teachings on marriage and divorce -- better I think, than other denominations. But we've been at it longer, eh?

Observer:

Nouri says:
"Islam recognizes the importance of strong healthy families, in order to build a strong healthy society."
Is this why your religion allows a man to have four wives at the same time and infinite number of concubines? Or by making women wards of their male relatives? This divorce by texting is just the most recent demonstration of the low regard that religion accords its women, and that is reflected on how "strong and healthy" Muslim societies are.

Anonymous:

Mohamed EL Nagdi enumerates several rights islam provides for women!!!!.

Bud, what you are saying is a pie in the sky!!!

you are hung up on what ought to be...be real, check what is happening to women NOW.

BeowulfthePolitican:

Fabio Baqueiro:
I am not a Muslim, but considering Islam provided a way to divorce from the 7th century on, while Christianity is still at odds with it (it is forbidden to Catholics), it is really surprising someone tries to portrait Islam as backwards.


--------------------------

We're not at "odds" with it. While Catholicism (which does NOT speak for all of Christianity anymore than the Grand Ayatollah speaks for all of Islam) may take it to the extreme, Jesus allowed for it in the case of infidelity.

In Christianity, when you make a vow to God, God expects you to keep it. Whether you are "happy" or not is irrelevant. "Happiness" is fleeting and is based on temporary pleasures. Joy comes through obeying His Word, even when the going gets tough.


BeowulfthePolitican:

Mohamed EL Nagdi wrote :

I am completely surprised at Her Lao's comments on the tnis piece of news. He claims that the Islamic Law is a copy of the old English Law. this piece of information is an indication of great ignorance of history and the history of religions in particular. Islam was revealed upon Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H) in the 7th centurey A d and he is speaking about the British law of the 19th century. ANy way, this guy seems to have no belief in God! Yet we shouldn't handle marriage and divorce issues in isloation of the other marital issues. Islam has honoured woman by different privillges not endowed to her by any other law before or after. A woman has the right to have a monetary independence and free will to choose her partner.The muslim woman is a great asset of the Islamic socoiety having playing the pivotal role in upbringing of sound citizens and has the right to work or not.
The question of divorce is a delicate one and needs the people to understand it to be not biased inorder to undrestand it well. The man - in Islam - is entitled to spend on his family and of course his wife. But if the woman sees that she can help ,it is ok. Most women are moody and their feelings are not stable and can make quick decisions without careful studying of their consquences so they were not given the right of instant divorce. If a woman sees that she can't live with her husabnd she can get divorce through a legal process to make sure that such a decision is based on fatcs. Moreover if the man divorces his wife without her consent he is entitled to compensate her. DIvorce is - in my opinion-- better than living with a partner you don't like.

------------------------------

Does Allah want you to be happy or obedient?

BeowulfthePolitican:

LOL! OMG WTF????

Anonymous:

Well, Gingrich delivered divorce papers to his wife in the hospital, and one of Giulliani's wives found out she was being divorced from the news reports. Why, then do we have a problem with texting?

Ayman Fadel:

Jack Fairweather has not really done this topic justice.

From a legal point of view, Muslims have discussed proper pronouncements of divorce for centuries. The gamut runs from enforcing the least signifying speech or action (i.e. "go back to your parents' home") to investigation of circumstances and confirmation of intention before enforcing the divorce. The proponents of "light-trigger" enforcement of divorce, most notably the jurist Imam Shafi'i, sought to prevent husbands from verbally abusing their wives with constant talk and threats of divorce. The proponents of verification and removing ambiguity sought to prevent unintentional or ill-thought out divorces, such as a drunk husband divorcing his wife.

In each time and place, different circumstances dictate revising the range of possible forms of the divorce pronouncement.

In either case, of course, there is a 3-month cooling off period, as Mr. Fairweather mentions, before the divorce is finalized.

When I tried to do a quick search about this topic, it seemed that Muslims opposing the ruling regarding the text message were not opposing the idea of divorce as much as the rude, cowardly way in which the husband pronounced the divorce, by text message. You should be "man" enough to divorce your wife face to face.

When I lived in Egypt in 1989, the Q&A sections of religious magazines contained many questions from husbands and wives who sought to reunite as a married couple despite the husband's having said or done something indicating divorce.

I think Mr. Fairweather ignores the real issues, which are maintenance after divorce and women's rights to terminate marriage.

I'm no expert in maintenance issues, so I won't talk about them here. Other than to note that my post office in Augusta, GA and the rest stops along the interstate are filled with posters of men disobeying court orders to provide support for their divorced wives and their children.

Regarding women's initiation of divorce, Muslim women can initiate a divorce without cause without seeking a property judgment regarding the expenses of the wedding, primarily the dowry the husband gave her, and the judge simply verifies that is her desire and the marriage is ended. Contrary to AMH's August 7 10:14 pm comment, this happened for my cousin in Egypt several years ago. Since I don't live in Egypt, I cannot confirm or deny AMH's comments about a more recent law there.

If the wife seeks termination of marriage and a property settlement, she must show in court that her husband has damaged her interests. This could include verbal and physical abuse, failure to bring in money, etc.

The method of termination of marriage, either husband-initiated or wife-initiated, does not impact maintenance judgments.

Having said this, divorces in Egypt (and the United States) can be amicable or nasty. Sometimes legal processes work, sometimes they don't.

I fail to see the superiority of U.S. family law.

Julia Iskandar:

Weirdly, the very formula in Arabic which means "I divorce you" (talat) positively lends itself to text messaging because it is only three letters: t-l-t in written Arabic. It's still rude and uncouth to divorce your wife by text message, and like everything in Sharia law, it would still require two (or four) witnesses to be legally valid - how would texting get around the "witness" requirement?
The whole point of Islam was, and is, that it claims to supersede both Judaism and Christianity, although it recognises some of their main personalities and weaves them into its own narrative. Maybe the whole "sibling rivalry" between the three monotheist religions is pretty pointless? We'd better learn to get along with each other in the short while that we're here.

Nouri:

"whm99:
What a great example of islam combining the worst of both the 7th and 21st centuries.

Another good example of the worst of both the 7th and 21st centuries is, "everything else islamic".

billm"

WoW I can smell love, affection and respect towards Islam and Muslims. Islamophobia at its best!

Keep it up with your intelligent logic objective and constructive ideas. Your parents must be proud of you and your contribution at bringing people of different faiths together!

Nouri:

Merewig Sledger:
MY NAME IS NURI AND I WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF AS I AM PUTTING IT IN A BOLD TEXT...

Sincere apologies for the use of CAPITAL KEYS!

By the way there is a spelling mistake in my name is, it is written: N O U R I. :)

Read the article again to understand the position of Islam regarding Divorce. It is based on on the basis of hapiness not common sense and it is a moderate way of keeping families and communites together in the long term instead of forcing them to be together and creating an atmosphere of sadness, hate and cheating.

Hypocrisy is not the way forward to keep your affection to your partner just because you made the mistake of saying during your sermon: ..until death will do us apart!

whm99:

What a great example of islam combining the worst of both the 7th and 21st centuries.

Another good example of the worst of both the 7th and 21st centuries is, "everything else islamic".

billm

Nouri:

"Fabio Baqueiro:
I am not a Muslim, but considering Islam provided a way to divorce from the 7th century on, while Christianity is still at odds with it (it is forbidden to Catholics), it is really surprising someone tries to portrait Islam as backwards.
Should we remember that what women achieved in Western world was the result of their own social mobilization in a very recent past, and not some intrinsec characteristic that "we" have and "they" have not? In many parts of the Christian world women situation is still a very downgrading one. In no place in the Western world women and men are really equal. As women and other groups throughout the world surely acknowledge, entitlement to and achievement of rights are two very different things.
The kind of parochial reasoning this article and some of the comments posted here brings to surface does not help the struggle for equality in neither Islam or Christian parts of the world. It is simply a bunch of stereotypes and prejudice aimed at stating "our" superiority over "them", as customary."

Well articulated! The world is a better place to live in with people like you! Well said!

Merewig Sledger:

MY NAME IS NURI AND I WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF AS I AM PUTTING IT IN A BOLD TEXT...

Please, the issue is not that people should be able to divorce, or marry, or have their fathers blessing because they might make a big mistake and marry just because they are in love, what a terrible idea that might be. The issue is should it be done by text?

A bit of a cop out in my opinion, you should at least let your partner know to their face, so you can give a reason, talk to the kids, grab whatever belongings you may need to survive etc. A text should be used for 'do we need milk' on your way home from work or to let someone know where you are perhaps. In every society and religion, with access to modern technology comes the possibility of misuse.

Fabio Baqueiro:

I am not a Muslim, but considering Islam provided a way to divorce from the 7th century on, while Christianity is still at odds with it (it is forbidden to Catholics), it is really surprising someone tries to portrait Islam as backwards.
Should we remember that what women achieved in Western world was the result of their own social mobilization in a very recent past, and not some intrinsec characteristic that "we" have and "they" have not? In many parts of the Christian world women situation is still a very downgrading one. In no place in the Western world women and men are really equal. As women and other groups throughout the world surely acknowledge, entitlement to and achievement of rights are two very different things.
The kind of parochial reasoning this article and some of the comments posted here brings to surface does not help the struggle for equality in neither Islam or Christian parts of the world. It is simply a bunch of stereotypes and prejudice aimed at stating "our" superiority over "them", as customary.

rod:

I expect lawyers hate this method of divorce.

R. Albuquerque:

It is self-evident that men and women are created equal. If there is nothing wrong with a man sending a text meassage to his wife ending their marriage then there should be nothing wrong with a woman doing it as well to her husband. The sooner Islam recognises this truth, the better it will be for it's salvation in this changing world.

Nouri:

Jack Fearweather if what you represent in this text is the highest level of intellect about Islam, someimes it is best to consult with people that are acknowledgeable on the topic like in any research rather than using sarcacism and ignorance.

"In Islam, marriage is a blessed bond and social contract. The woman and man, both have to consent to the marriage and cannot be forced into it. If it is her first marriage, some scholars go for the opinion that the woman must also have the consent of her father or guardian. This is to protect her from marrying out of passionate love someone who is unsuitable.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) advised Muslims to choose a wife on the basis of her piety. Someone may choose a wife for her wealth, beauty, or high family, but all these qualities may disappear. Piety is lasting. If the man and wife are both pious, they will make every effort to keep their marriage intact and not divorce for trivial reasons.

But Islam recognizes that men and women sometimes err in choosing a marriage partner. Islam also realizes that changes within them or in their circumstances, might later make them unhappy together. Should they be forced to remain together? There are countless examples in literature - Jane Eyre and Angela’s Ashes come to mind - and real life, in which couples were not allowed to divorce.

They either remained miserable together or one - usually the husband - abandoned the other, without any support for the children. Isn’t it better for couples in truly unhappy marriages - especially when there is physical or verbal abuse or alcoholism involved - to be able to divorce and try to start over with a new partner? Wouldn’t that be better for children, than to witness violence every day?

Thus, Islam takes a moderate stance on this. Although divorce is halal (lawful), yet the prophet (pbuh) said:

“Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah.” (Reported by Abu Dawood.)

The Qur’an directs married couples to live together with love, affection and mercy between them and to be patient with each other’s faults. But if they have problems living together harmoniously, they should seek counseling from their families in an effort to keep the marriage intact. These are efforts to bring success to the marriage, before considering divorce.

Islam recognizes the importance of strong healthy families, in order to build a strong healthy society. That is why the Qur’an and hadith (traditions of the prophet) show us how to live together. Divorce should be used only as a last resort, not just whenever one is going through a difficult or unhappy period."

SO WHEN ALL CONSIDERED OPTIONS FAILED FOR RECONCILIATION FOR WHATEVER VALID REASONS, THE MEANS WITH WHICH YOU COME TO FINALLY FINALISE IT IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS STOPPING THE CONTINUATION OF A MISERABLE LIFE BETWEEN 2 UNHAPPY PEOPLE.

I HOPE YOU WILL FIND THE TEXT ABOVE MORE ENLIGHTENING YOU ABOUT THE MERCY OF ISLAM AND ITS MODERATE STAND (COMPARING TO OTHER FAITHS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH YOUR PARTNER UNTIL DEATH SEPARATE YOU! THOUGH THIS SERMONT IS NEVER TAKEN SERIOUSLY OR PUT IN PRACTISE BY ALL!)

Hmm:

HOMUNCULUS, not sure where you get your information, but being a gay in most Islamic states like Iran will get you executed by public hanging.

Muscat friend:

another nicely written piece by Jack Fairweather. The more examples that can be found exposing Sharia law for what it really is, (rule by men) the better.

And Muslims want this brought to the UK?

r u jking?!

Mohamed EL Nagdi :

I am completely surprised at Her Lao's comments on the tnis piece of news. He claims that the Islamic Law is a copy of the old English Law. this piece of information is an indication of great ignorance of history and the history of religions in particular. Islam was revealed upon Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H) in the 7th centurey A d and he is speaking about the British law of the 19th century. ANy way, this guy seems to have no belief in God! Yet we shouldn't handle marriage and divorce issues in isloation of the other marital issues. Islam has honoured woman by different privillges not endowed to her by any other law before or after. A woman has the right to have a monetary independence and free will to choose her partner.The muslim woman is a great asset of the Islamic socoiety having playing the pivotal role in upbringing of sound citizens and has the right to work or not.
The question of divorce is a delicate one and needs the people to understand it to be not biased inorder to undrestand it well. The man - in Islam - is entitled to spend on his family and of course his wife. But if the woman sees that she can help ,it is ok. Most women are moody and their feelings are not stable and can make quick decisions without careful studying of their consquences so they were not given the right of instant divorce. If a woman sees that she can't live with her husabnd she can get divorce through a legal process to make sure that such a decision is based on fatcs. Moreover if the man divorces his wife without her consent he is entitled to compensate her. DIvorce is - in my opinion-- better than living with a partner you don't like.

WORLD GUARDIAN:

BIRDS DO IT... BEES DO IT...
... EVEN "CHRISTIAN" PRIME-MINISTERS DO IT...

Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen, dubbed Finland's most attractive man, broke up by SMS with the girlfriend he had met on the Internet, Susan Kuronen said in December 2006.

"Matti dumped me in a text message, where he said 'that's it'".

While this scandal was forgotten in NOKIA Home Country, SMS messages which Finland's ex-Foreign Minister Illkka Kanerva sent to a stripper caused his demise.

In Finland, the joke now says that a candidate for high-position must pass a test - in which is SMS-skills are examined...

Anon:

Talking of 7th century Koran- a U.S. publisher refused to publish a new book on Mohamed's 7 year old wife Aisha, fearing it would set off violence in Muslim world.

Anyway, did not Mohamed marry 9 times, including an ex daughter in law? He may have made this law to make it easier for him to move on to the next woman once he was done with one.

Tarik:

I am reading all these comments, and none of them has elaborated on the "right way to divorce". Some would advance talk it over, agree on the terms of the divorc,...etc. isn't an oxymoron to say that the best divorce is based on mutual agreement.

Coming back to the piece of news, I find it funny (dark humor). The guy is frieghten to death of his wife....she must a scary one...that's my explaination.

tech girl:

SPAM! SPAM! SPAM!

Women's groups should merely SPAM everyone in the country with this SMS!

In a country where men and women almost never talk to each other, this could have amazingly chaotic consequences! What civil disobedience! Email the mullah's wives!

Her Lao:

Under Sharia law, a man can divorce a woman simply by announcing his intentions. This is followed by a three month "cooling off" period before the divorce can be finalized, to create an opportunity for resolution. However, if a woman wants a divorce, she must go before a court to seek a divorce, and she must prove her husband has an inadequacy - usually impotency or extended absence. If not, she has no right to divorce him.

++++++++++++++++++

"Sharia law" is an EXACTLY copy of old "English common law" until the late 1800s and especially the early 1900's.

Remember the "great" English jurist Blackstone, whose everyone was taken as divine thinking?:

Man and woman are one (meaning a family) and the man is the one.

Remember Blackstone's revered wording, which became part of a deep-rooted "English common law" nonsense...?

Well, Sharia law --- at least in the mind of Moslems who PRETEND they are living in some time capsule --- is still in such a permutation, plotted against time, human era.

I am watching one of the extremely beautiful and difficult sports humans undertake: women's gymnastics, as I typed this, and to know that Allah, whoever that guy is, is purported to have decreed that no true Moslem women or girls must show her ankle, hair, or face (the "extreme" sects) ----- to me that, if nothing else, tells you no Allah or God exists, just like no Fairy Queen or Locness or Kiri-Kuru exist. It's all childish imagination, came up with by grown ups.

By men, that is.

disapointed human:

Whilst I do not condone this act, what is wrong with it? What is the difference between sending a text message, leaving a note on the kitchen table or having a lawyer hand you a legal document telling you your husband wants to divorce you and will see you in court? The latter is in my opinion the most distasteful as your whole life will be discussed in public, your children will be scarred for life and the only winners are the lawyers.

There is no right or wrong way to get divorced, no better or worse outcome. Rarely does a divorce benefit the husband or wife over the other. In this case, just like any other, there will be acrimony. But the husband will still be liable to child support and will have to provide for the wife until she remarries.

Furthermore, this particular case is a one off and is not a true reflection of Malays and their commitment to marriage.

Ali:

As a US born Muslim who have studies Islam, I find this "Divorce by text message" condescending to women and an over simplification of Islamic law. It never surprises me what some of these governmental advisors and ("sharia law by the government run courts") would say to be supported and sided by their governments, even if that amounts to selling their soul.

AMH:

Samina says:
"woman has the right to seek divorce which is called "khul’", she does not have to prove anything ."

In which Muslim country is this claim true? I know that when Muslim women in Arab countries want to divorce, their only recourse is to convince their husbands to divorce them. A common refrain you still hear in Arab movies is women angrily shouting “Divorce me! Divorce me!”. Recently Egypt introduced the khul’ law against the stiff resistance of the Muslim clergy. In khul’ a woman can file for divorce, which in itself is an improvement, but divorce is granted in only two cases; proof of the sexual inadequacy of the husband, which is very difficult to prove, and desertion for more than 3 years.

Hans Meiser:

Are you kidding me?
No.. no I guess you're not.
I guess all I can say is that to me (atheist) it feels good to share my life with a woman who I let do whatever she wants.
In return, you have a relationship in which conflicts are actually talked over and resolved, preserving not only the marriage but also each others dignity.
The moment you control and limit a partner, she's no longer your partner she's your slave.

Sensi:

Can I remind people here that divorce was forbidden in Catholic's Ireland until 1996? Alright.

@ skai aka surj1936 aka ...

Go spam your propagandist and xenophobic links elsewhere, ty.

Samina:

I would like to clarify the position of women seeking divorce in Islam. A woman has the right to seek divorce which is called "khula", she does not have to prove anything except that sometimes people make mistakes in choosing their partners and they prove to be incompatible with each other.

SISL:

Just one more example of how religions are nothing more than a state of control of men against women and children. Disgusting,, makes my stomach turn.The outlook of the 21rst century when seeing the advance of this retrograde religions across the world looks more similar to the Dark ages than the reinassance.

Garak:

Islam, or 7th-century Arab tribal law? If the later, the Muslim world needs to free itself of Arab tribal law.

Karen:

It may be okay under Sharia (according to one court) but it is craven.

skai:

JBE, All fundamentalist, is bad, disgust god, and control others. True more so in Islam than any other religions, why? log on www.thereligionofpeace.com
www.faithfreedom.org

surj1936:

I don't see any thing wrong with it, that is what Islam and Sharia Law say , that must be followed to the latter. By changing to any thing else would be going against the teaching of Islam. Sura 4:34,"Men have authority over women....." Do we want to change all this? No we don't. log on www.faithfreedom.org

Alan Browne:


Does the message matter?

Once conditions in a relationship are so bad that divorce is decided upon then it is most healthy that the divorce occur without delay and people get on with their lives as quickly as possible.

What is deplorable here is that sharia requires the woman to go to a court to get a divorce whereas the man need only announce it.

KR:

Okay under Sharia law, maybe. Okay under common decency? No.

Martiniano:

I guess Mohammed missed that part of the New Testament where Prophet Issa says "What God has united let no man tear apart."

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

Under Sharia law if a man says I divorce so and so (his wife) , and repeat this sentence two more times , the wife is divorced. If the man had second thoughts and wanted his wife back, he cannot legally remarry her until she marries another man, and this other man divorces her. To get around that hurdle Muslim men hire a man called “muhallel” to play the part of the new husband. In many cases those muhallels do not respect their promise to “not sleep “ with the divorcee or to divorce her afterwards.
Progress and reform in the Muslim cultures as conveyed here is keeping the same old nonsense but executing it through a more advanced technology i.e. telephone or texting..

PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send us your comments, questions and suggestions.