Comments (12)

SICK. I have so little hope for the middle east. It makes one believe that they will never be able to join the civilized world. Why do the women and children always have to suffer most?

Oy, you must have trouble reading because I provided an elaborate analysis of the situation in Jordan, not a 'blame it on the west' polemic.

As for Israel, it recieves over 10 billion a year from America. A recent Congressional report revealed Israel is fundamentally dependent on American money, otherwise it would fall into what rabbit hole it's straddling at this moment. The US cost of aid to Israel is over $130 billion.

And it is correct the Jordanian monarchy instructed the Muslim people to leave Palestine. That same monarchy was serving the British empire which wanted the Zionists to be in Palestine. So the colloboration between the Jordanian monarchy with the British is known. AND the secret alliance between the Israelis and the Jordanian monarchy has emerged as well, where dead king Hussein had a secret alliance for decades.

Surprise surprise, the foxes running the henhouse are colloborating with the wolves at the door.

This is what happens when a 7th-century mentality persists in the modern world of instant news reporting.

The Islamist says:
“What I and millions support is the resumption of a single Islamic state, a caliphate based solely on Divine Law. And tiny nations like Jordan should join with this state even if the king cries.”

Moi: The Turkish Caliphate that went down the tube during World War I, ruled all the Arab states for over 500 years. What has that caliphate accomplished for its Arab subjects? It taxed them back into the Stone Age to support the lavish lifestyle of its Caliphs and their cronies. They took out and never put in. They went as far as cut down fruit trees from the plains of Palestine and hills of Syria to fuel their trains. That was happening when the West was moving from the Exploration age into the Colonization Age into Religious Reformation, into the Age of Enlightment and the Industrial Revolution. Yet many in those Arab countries, such as the Islamist quoted above, never blame Turkey for any of their ills and instead blame all their shortcoming on the British and French. At least those who colonized the Arab countries for a decade or two after liberating them from 500 years of subjugation and humiliation at the hands of ruthless and ignorant hordes ,had opened them up to the rest of the world and tried to teach them how to run a modern state with modern institutions. What had the Turkish Caliphate ever given the Arabs besides grief and destitution? I don’t know which is worse; this half millennium scourge called Turkish Caliphate or people’s yearning for its return. Why would any Arab in his right mind wants the return of a Caliphate? The Turks themselves do not want its return despite its many advantages to them. For no other reason than that the Caliphs, whether Arabs or Turks, would be believers in Allah and unlike the Europeans and Americans who are infidels. Are you still wondering why those people are moving backward when everybody else is moving forward?

So, who's version of Islam will run this Islamic Caliphate? An Iranian or an Iraqi one (10 year war against each other), a Taliban or a Saudi one (wonderfully inclusive), a Bin Laden or an Arafat type (give me everything), or some other wonderful, easily agreed to by all people's version of Islam, the world's great trouble, errr Peace makers?

And yes, "honor killings" are to keep the family together and to punish those who threaten the institution. Yeah. So why aren't wives killing their errant husbands, daughters killing their straying fathers, or any other part of the reverse? Power and control, not equality or family values.

The author is correct, and Usama is displaying exactly the "thinking" that is keepping the Muslim world from advancing.

Blame the British, (always) blame the Jews, it's not us, it's the guy behind the tree.

Whya aren't there any Arab (or Persian) democracies, why no advances, why no French type or American type Revolution? Because the leaders and the wanna-be leaders all want what's good for them, and not what's best for the people.

Taliban in Afghanistan, Kings, princes, Presidents, dictators in others, Muftis and Mullahs, PLO, PA, Hezz's, Hizz's, Islamic Jihads, Black September, and the rest, all call and appeal, with force, to follow their path or perish. Keep feeding the masses a steady diet of hate, of false images, of wrongs, real and imagined from 600 years ago that must be revenged, and you get what we all got.

Let's contrast. Israel accepts some 750,000 refugees from Arab states after 1948, absorbs them, teaches them, provides jobs, homes, irrigates the desert and swamps bought at high price from Arab landowners, and builds a State. Oh, and includes Arabs in the nation, and in the governing body.

The Arabs exhort their citizens to leave Israel so they won't impede the conquering armies, puts everyone in camps for 60 years, and trains for war and terror. Can't live with any more than a token Jew, or Christian, in any of the territories, and certainly none in the government, judiciary, or elsewhere; can't get along with those who believe the same thing, only differently, and don't want to give up the "old" ways, like honor killings and burkas, which were not part of the original religion.

Not likely to see a change in the desire for power and control, won't see an improvement in the rights, education, prosperity, food shortages, etc, not in our life-times or in those of our grandchildren.

And if you thik honor killings are bad, how much restraint do you expect from a nuclear Iran, that is calling for the destruction of Israel, and that could threaten every state in the region, with nary a word of protest from any of those threatened?

Nationalism and national citizenship serve to reenforce the privileges of tribalism and serve to create elitism within several Muslim countries. Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Gulf Emirates, even Egypt: nationalism & nationalist citizenship serves to divide the people from the rest of the region and people regardless. It is well known that no foreigner can be a Saudi citizen unless they marry into a family of citizens even if foreigners live there for decades. It is also well known that noncitizen Palestinian refugees in Lebanon have been repressed and mistreated for decades (as in almost all other Arab nations) while Christian Lebanese have been granted greater rights and power than arguably any other people in Lebanon because of their support from the West, and Lebanon is a secular Arab nationalist state.
Nationalist models have been accepted by some Islamic movements as in Sudan, but only in deviation from the authoritative concepts of Islamic governance. A recent book by Noah Feldman The Fall and Rise of the Islamic State is recent recognition of this. As well, Sudan has been dominated by an authoritarian regime for a decade following Egypt's political direction ( Bashir was trained in Egypt) and Egypt is a classic nationalist regime.

Ultimately, Jordan's monarchy is a result of British colonization. And the traditionalist ulama, subjugated to the monarchy, are the ones who both protect the reactionary notion of honor killing without leading the people and protect the monarchy despite its negative effects on the people.

What I and millions support is the resumption of a single Islamic state, a caliphate based solely on Divine Law. And tiny nations like Jordan should join with this state even if the king cries.

As for the problem of 'honor killing'.
Western thought makes the individual the basis and foundation of the society. Laws are based on the individual superceding the rights of the family. This premise serves economic interests, but negative consequences include the dismantling and desecration of the family unit as pivotal to the success of society. Hence, Europe is facing with more single than married people, as is America.

As well, individual rights of personal freedom have opened the door to widespread sexual perversions (including sex outside of marriage), as well prostitution is legal in majorities of nations (most of Europe, Australia, Japan, Israel), sexual slaves is widespread (estimated 27 million slaves worldwide is the highest numbers in history and includes sex slaves).

What was percieved as a solution to the problems of Western Christian based social problems revolving around the Church's archaic dogma on sex and the family and propagated worldwide by Western empires and now by the UN, NGOs and the American empire, has created new problems for the world. Besides the aboved mentioned, STDs have now returned as global pandemics again.

In contrast to the individualism of the Western ideologies, Islam renders the family as the foundation of the society and the individual as an important element and component therein. The West says: the individual can have sex with whomever with no consequences. Islam says: the individual can have sex within marriage only.

The Western idea does not consider the pregnancy from such an incident except as a right of the individual to abort. Islam considers pregnancy as pivotal to the family unit and encourages it with both parents and families accepting it.

Correction;
Usama says:
“It is the Islamic movements' efforts to educate and lead the people out of the moral decay and revive justice amongst the people.”

My reply above should be clarified further to read: It was the Islamists groups who demonstrated against the repeal of the (present) so-called “Honor Killing”(laws), when (at the same time) members of the royal family marched in the support of the repeal of the (present law that practically exonerates the women murderers.)

Usama says:
“Arab nationalist secularism from Egypt and Beirut, led by atheists, secularists, and Arab Christians, propagate western style pop culture consistent with the most decadent Western ideas of culture.”
Moi; Those above mentioned people strive for nationalism; equal rights for all citizens i.e. men and women Muslims and non Muslims. This off course is anathema to those who wish to reintroduce the Sharia laws that discriminates against all but Muslim men.

He says:
“In the wake of the failures of the monarchy and the weaknesses of the traditional establishment,” .
Moi; the sole legitimacy for the Hashemite monarchy is its supposedly blood relationship to your prophet.

He says:
“Islamic groups and their movements are the heart and future of the people.”
Moi: This is the main aim of this post; to bring us the tidings of the approaching Islamists rule in predominantly Muslim countries. As if those places need more tragedies.

He says:
“It is the Islamic movements' efforts to educate and lead the people out of the moral decay and revive justice amongst the people.”
Moi: It was the Islamists groups who demonstrated against the repeal of the so-called “Honor Killing”, when members of the royal family marched in the support of that repeal.

He says:
I do not trust the WaPo journalist account of this incident, but every woman has a right to divorce in Islamic law, its called Khul
Moi: Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Women could not divorce their husbands according to the Sharia. Recently Egypt introduced a new law to allow women to sue for divorce and despite the very stringent guidelines for granting them a divorce, yet that law was bitterly contested by the Islamists in Egyptian parliament.

He says:
“Islamic movements' are the future of the Muslim people. They bring advanced understanding, realistic application of Islam and ideology to the Muslim people.”
Moi: Sudan and Saudi Arabia are ruled according to Sharia law. Is that how you wish for the rest of the predominantly Muslim countries to be ruled?

He says:
“The Jordanian monarchy and its judicial arm are failed, reactionary, impotent, unable to lead the people, much like America's judicial system is unable to stem the tide of its own moral crumbling and growing criminalist culture.”
Moi: This is the main message you wish to convey to WAPO readers i.e. the US is an immoral country. If this country is not to your ethical or moral taste what are you doing in Texas? Why not go and live among the miserable people from the failed societies with failed institutions from where you had hailed in the first place?

Jordan doesn't represent Islam. Its a product of British imperialism. Its monarchy is framed from British guidance and its society fails to live up to the minimal definition of an Islamic society.

People who know reality, rather than those lost in dogmatic distopia's and impotent intellectual self aggrandizments, realize that Jordan is a tiny nation caught between more powerful forces that draw it in competing directions.
Israel which has treaties with Jordan and which the Jordanian monarchy relies on for its defense, wants to open Jordan up to Israeli trade and cultural dominance. However, the Jordanian people are majority Palestinian and Muslim and resent Israel and its manipulation of the monarchy.

Arab nationalist secularism from Egypt and Beirut, led by atheists, secularists, and Arab Christians, propagate western style pop culture consistent with the most decadent Western ideas of culture. This force pulls Jordan to be more like its own design. However, this cultural propaganda is not from the people of Jordan, its propagated to them like a foreign message through TV, movies, music, and moral laxity of the monarchy to allow EU style dance clubs, prostitution, sexual promiscuity. Add to this the influx of secular, rich Iraqi refugees who have brought millions in US dollars, bought up lands, and have begun to dominate Jordan economic forces.

Then there is the multifaceted pull of Muslim forces within Jordan. There is the traditionalist Sunni establishment with its grand mufti who works with the monarchy. Its vision is backwards, seeking to retain notions of past Islamic social norms ONCE found in the people, but is afraid to confront the monarchy on it's failure to lead the society toward morality.
In the wake of the failures of the monarchy and the weaknesses of teh traditional establishment, Islamic groups and their movements are the heart and future of the people. It is the traditionalist notion that the law can be used to protect ignorance that leads to murdering one's duaghter.

It is the Islamic movements' efforts to educate and lead the people out of the moral decay and revive justice amonst the people.
I do not trust the WaPo journalist account of this incident, but every woman has a right to divorce in Islamic law, its called Khul`. If the father felt bad about her leaving and abusive marriage, his feelings are not grounds for dishonor. His actions should have been to protect his daughter and confront the abusive, failed son in law. An educated, pious man would take action to protect her and uphold his family honor at the same time. That is if what is reported here actually happened, which WaPo probably slanted for its own ideological agenda.

Islamic movements' are the future of the Muslim people. They bring advanced understanding, realistic application of Islam and ideology to the the Muslim people. The Jordanian monarchy and its judicial arm are failed, reactionary, impotent, unable to lead the people, much like America's judicial system is unable to stem the tide of its own moral crumbling and growing criminalist culture.

The Catholic church also says women are deficient by refusing to let them be priests or hold other positions of teaching and leadership. Multiple Protestant churches say women are deficient by not letting them be pastors, deacons, carry the offering plates, vote in church decisions, etc. Western countries need to accept that their own view of women must change in order to ensure that women are valued as completely worthy human beings worldwide.

Re:Honor? Killing
The Muslim culture which is derived basically from the Quran and the tradition of Islam’s prophet, the Hadith, demonizes women. Furthermore, it depicts women as deficient in “ faith and intelligence” which makes them even more dangerous. Their solution for this “ scourge” is to control their women by any means they deem effective. They veil them, they keep them home, they mutilate their sex organs, they marry them off before they mature etc. Then there is the ever-present threat of murder. There is a clear command in their holy book and Hadith to stone women to death for adultery. Men on the other hand are to be forgiven if they “repent”. This is where the Jordanians get their cues for treating their women (and men). Surprised?