magandang araw po sa inyong lahat..salamat po sa pagkakataong ibinigay nyo na maaari po kaming maglagay ng komento tungkol sa inyong mga isinulat..
Nais ko lang po ipahatid sa inyo na sa aking opinyon, hindi po nakadudulot ng magandang resulta ang mga inilathala nyo sa artikolong ito..
may iilan pong mga filipino sa labas ng bansa ang nakakabasa nito..pati na po mga foreigners...at inakala po nilang ganyan talaga ang mga filipina kahit may ilan ding hindi totoo..
nakakasira lang po ito sa dignidad ng mga filipina..and sa tingin ko nagdadala lang ito ng dungis sa ating pagkatao..
Maraming Salamat Po..

Ok people calm down,

First off this isn't a forum to blast terrorism, religion or any other topic EXCEPT teen girls and oversexualization. Yes it is a problem to the Filipino community, but like wise to every other white, black, and brown family with teenagers today. It is the responsibility of the parents as well as the child to know where they stand with appearance and sexuality. And with that it is in the interest of both to make informed decisions as opposed to ones given by books.

Also I am saddened that people would resort to mud-slinging and going on racial tirades and epithets when we are supposed to be a outgoing society. So guess what people if the rest off the world wants to call us hypocrites, congratulations you made their case.

I have one more thing especially to this "religious" debate. Please read Genesis again and when you finally accept that when Adam and Eve bit the apple it wasn't making them good or bad. It was giving them the power to make their own decisions whether they be good or evil. SO get out of the garden folks. You're way overdue.

Thank God! I am not Christian or Muslim (or anything else). I am an intelligent, pretty and sexy girl with a great career and a nice husband who would cook for me. The men treat their women badly because they are not proud of their culture. The western colonization destroyed the culture and the pride. It takes hundreds of years to build what was lost, but it is better to start sooner than squeezing a little bit of money from the pockets of your western friends who would not give a damn about your country.

You people have no sense of anything...you can really tell who here was a mature one by the way they spoke and who just simply turned stupid and started attacaking...why do americans have to prove their arrogance to the rest...no wonder everybody hates us...we cant even talk calmly and respectfully to each other...its discusting...

Dear Muck Taddah,

Don your bullet-proof turban, Porky Pig,
before you raise your head to slay all of the infidels. Four billion people are not going to roll over and play doormat to a faux-pashah from a slums of history.

From your worst nightmare...

An armed Jew.

Religious debate aside since that is really not what the article is about, I'm more concerned with the degree skin whitening products are used. While Filipinas are trying to make themselves more fair Caucasians are trying to to make themselves more tan. Filipinas should be proud of their brown skin. They should realize that "Americans" are going to the tanning salon and slathering all these bronzers to get the color they naturally have.

Whatever happened to the parents? Didn't the parents/grandparents of these kids teach them to love and respect their bodies? Parents/Guardians should be the primary teacher in their children's lives, not the media or religion so don't blame should not be put on these outlets.

The problem isn't billboards.
Are you insecure about how you look?
mad because you weren't allowed to enjoy your own beauty? jealous?

I'm not in great shape but I don't get all disgusted when Mr. Washboard abs is on some H&M billboard.

Humans need to ditch the shame about the body.
The Catholic guilt and repression in the Phil is probably a major factor in how you feel. You can thank the spanish inquisition style execution, rape and dismantling of the original Phillipino people for that.

All the same, most people I meet from Asia are in general very ashamed of public affection, fear their parents and have little will to think for themselves about major career and lifestyle decisions.
So you are merely experiencing the contrast to your otherwise repressive society.

Girls: don't be ashamed.
live your lives, be beautiful, sleep with who you want and don't let some stupid man say you can or can't do anything.

EQUALITY NOW.

oh and if you can't stop looking... you're the problem.

Ashfaq:
So Americans and their society are to blame for all the ills of the world. Funny how all the tribes of man are represented in my country. And in my tribe women make their own decisions. If men and women were not meant to be attracted to each other then God surely would have made it that way. But as the Muslim and Christian religions were founded by brothers with different mothers why do we fight? Would the father Abraham surely have disowned us all for our ways. Think about it.

Stacey:
I think you misunderstood what I said. A person may be Muslim and not practicing all aspects of his/her religion. So if a friend of yours or a friend of your friend has experienced a situation in which she was denied a right to divorce, then I was simply stating that the person's husband was not acting upon an Islamic principle which allows the woman to ask for divorce. It seems to me that actually you have a narrow view and you can't come to terms with truth.

Ashfaq:

They are wholeheartedly practicing Muslim. Just because they disagree with you does not make them less dedicated. Your comment is just more evidence of your narrow mindness. If it doesn't agree with you it is wrong.

Stacey:
According to the Islamic perspective, humans are born in a state of purity unlike the Judeo-Christian perspective which stipulates that we are born as sinners. We are born with what is called "fitrah" - a natural disposition to submit to God and do what is right. However, God has not left us in the dark. He has given guidance (the Quran) to show us and help us to stay on the natural course of our selves. Those who go against the natural state are being disobedient to their Creator. Also, regarding the issue of divorce. Divorce is the last step which is taken when a marital relationship is not working in Islam. Both the man and the woman have the right to ask for divorce. Perhaps these Muslims whom you are retrieving the information from or about are not wholeheartedly practicing the religion of Islam.

Ashfaq:

Actually I am Canadian. As I said our last leader saaid no toBush and in reurn we were treated as traitors. But because I am a big girl, I knew that that perception of Canadians was limited to an ignorant few, and I did not hold it against all Americans. The same is true of Muslims. You say typically, western men have mistresses. This is not typical. Within my circle, I can say that no one I know is a cheater. Not my father, brothers, husband, friends. We all have value in our lives as they are, and are thereforee not interested in branching out, so to speak. We took our time and made sure we were with the one we wanted, not a partner deemed appropriate, and therefore feel blessed. We do not need our religion to tell us that cheating is wrong, and that it causes nothing but pain. You marriage agreement may exists in America, but not everywhere, and there is limited rights for the woman in most Muslim societies. A man can divorce a woman as he pleases, but she cannot. I know this from my Muslim friends.

Stacey:
The western world has committed many atrocities against the Muslim lands and its peoples. As Muslims we have a right to defend ourselves against that. You are not really objectively looking at the history. Reflect upon the fact that your country colonialized the Muslim lands and killed Muslim peoples. What is happening recently is a consequence of that. Tell your government to leave the Muslims alone. Your country (Britain I suppose) will never do so because you have a scarcity of resources and history has shown the extent to which your society will go to satisfy its material desires. The western world has robbed and continues to rob countless billions of people all throughout the world and has kept them in abject poverty.

Stacey:
Islam allows a Muslim man to marry up to four wives. The marriage to four wives in conditional. A woman can stipulate however in the marital contract prior to the marriage that she does not wish her husband to have any other wife. Also, should the woman allow the husband to have other wife or wives, the man has the responsibility to be scrupulously fair to each one of them. He has to be equal in all respect. He has to spend equal time with them, equal financial resources, etc. It's a responsibility and on the Day of Judgment he will have to answer for any unfairness. Islam gives legal rights to the wives. In Western society typically a man has a wife and mistresses on the side whom he typically does not take responsibility for. The mistress is used simply for sexual gratification. So which system is better? One in which the women are made wives and given legal rights or a system in which a woman is simply a concubine and has no legal recourse?

Ashfaq:

Infidelity - As a Muslim, how many wives will you have or do you wish to have. In my eyes, many Muslim men are hypocrits, because they claim to be holy, yet they have several wives. Does a Muslim woman have the right to take many husbands? No. When you take young men and promise them 16 virgins in heaven so that they will commit heinous crimes against innocent men, women and children in the name of Allah is this holy? Anytime a Christian in the past number of years has done some horrible deed, killing their wife or their children or going to war and taking aim at the wrong building or vehicle, they have not come back and said it was for God. There are many people in the world who do not live under the Islamic guide, and they are people we respect and cherish. If they were Muslim and behaved the same way we would respect and cherish them the same. As I said earlier Ashfaq, being a fanatic is dangerous. Being so fanatical about your beliefs that you turn your back on your homeland is even more dangerous. Many of the persons responsible for the massive horrible events in the Western world in the past 7 years, were Muslim, and they were fanatics who could see no further than their religion. Maybe it was because they had nothing else. Maybe they were preyed upon by "leaders" who made them feel they had no other choice for life here, so do this and go forward to peace and happiness. Is this the way we should think since we are not devout enough as non-Mulsims?

Mother of 2:

I would suggest a book, if you haven't already read it: "Consuming Kids: The hostile takeover of childhood" by Susan Linn.

It's about the effect of advertising aimed at children. Before 1980, advertising aimed at children was strictly legislated and controlled. Then advertisers realized what a many-billion-dollar market share they could tap into by advertising that exploits children and creates disharmony in families by encouraging children to "nag" their parents for consumer goods. It's a great book.

Truth:
Actually even though I was born as a Muslim, I did not come to the realization that Islam was the truth and the best way of life for mankind until I was into adulthood. I used to practice certain aspects of the religion because my parents had wanted me to when i was young but it never had an effect on me. So I did "experience" the world (May God forgive me) and I am speaking about the corruption and immorality prevalent in society with an objective criterion. I came to a realization that the way the people are living their life in a materialistic, worldly manner is not the right way to live. As a Muslim I have a concern both for this current life in the world and in the life to come in the herafter. I have to place emphasis on both lives. This life is short and full of hardships and the life to come is eternal and full of happiness and bliss. If you choose to enjoy yourself to the utmost in this life, you are making a big sacrifice. How long are you going to enjoy this life? 60 years? 70 years? What will happen to you after that? I will tell you what happens. First, if you were rebellious and disobedient to God then you will face punishment in the grave. Then when God decides to bring about the Day of Judgment for all of mankind, you will be thrown in the hellfire for eternity. an eternity of punishment for 60 years of disobedience vs. an eternity of happiness for 60 years of obedience. BTW when I speak of "you" it is for the general human not you in particular. It applies to you and me and everyone in society.

In reality, one of the major reasons why a lot of muslims in the world are in the pathetic state (fanatic, rebellious, over-relegious, highly intolerant = nonaccomodative) is that a majority of them, right from the times they were born, have not experienced freedom (free thought) in the proper sense. This is probably true for individuals like Ashfaq, who despite living in America (apparently, the epitome of free will and thought) has been tied into that relegious school of thought which hasnt let him explore the world as he should have originally done. I only feel sorry for him, for he doesnt understand wt he is loosing. May be never will have his share of 'fun' in life (Not necessarily sexual freedom). Unfortunately the men in their community decides for their women, so cannot blame their women for their sad state [At the bottom of their heart, even your pharmacist or doctor sister will be sad Ashfaq, it makes it even sadder that they are not able to define it since they have their thought process moulded to such an extent].

To the contrary, american women [over sexualised in this context ( because what you see is wt you are looking for) ] are a subset of those women who are fortunate to have experienced free thought and free will. Having a liberal sexual attitude or starting your own successful business amounts to the same concept in this context.

Stacey:
Let me ask you a question Stacey. Why don't you follow the Torah which was revealed to Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him)? I'll answer that it's because Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) was created by Allah without a father and he was given revelation because the Torah had been corrupted. Similarly, the Bible (which we call the Injeel and which we believe was revealed to Jesus - not in its current form however) was corrupted and so Allah sent His final message to Prophet Muhammad. If you choose to deny this message then you will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment. It's your choice though since as a human being you have free will. I also believe violence is wrong unless it's to defend yourself against an aggressor and to stop corruption in the land. In regards to adultery, there is punishment for it in Islam as well as in Christianity (It's considered a major sin even in Christianity). In Islam it is required that four witnesses had witnessed the act of adultery (which is very difficult to find). The application of stoning is a deterrent measure against immorality and decay in society and it is applicable to both the male and the female. As you know the American society has a 50% divorce rate which is due predominantly to infidelity. Families are breaking apart and this has serious ramifications on the children and society. How many people do you think would cheat on their spouses under the threat of stoning? Allah's wisdom and knowledge in infinite and we have very little knowledge. However, it's clear that adultery is deleterious to society. There are ignorant people everywhere and some of the acts which happen in countries which are predominantly Muslim are isolated incidents which are glorified by the media to serve its purposes. I condemn any act which goes against Islamic teachings.

Ashfaq:

Jesus never referred to himself as a Christian, because Christians are those who believe he existed, that he came to us as the son of God, taught us his word, and died for our sins. His name when he was here was not Jesus Christ, and his teachings were the beginnings or the basis of Christianity. His teachings were simply parables on events that did or could occur that contained spitiual messages, that would guide us in life if we listened. The stories of his life and the writings of his followers contained in the Ne Testament of the Bible outline the life and lessons of Jesus' time on earth. Those who read and follow these are Christian. If you respect and honor Jesus and his teachings, then why do you think we need to follow Islamic ways and not our own Christian beliefs. And why do you think that the cause of George Bush's poor judgement (as well as the government he runs) is his being Christian, right wing or not? I will tell you a little secret. Some people show up at church every week on Sunday, but don't live as Christians outside of that hour. There are also many Christians who don't necessarily go to Church every week, but lives their lives by Jesus' teachings all their lives. What I think you don't understand about my arguements is this: Not all Americans are following the same logic as their current leader. And he may be making many mistakes, but they have nothing to do with his religious background. What may be a theory to consider is that he (the military) acted in a violent manner in Iraq and in Afghanistan, because t"he"y stupidly (not naively) believed that was the only kind of action that would make sense in the area as a method of attempting to capture control. When we as westerners have seen violence throughout the Middle East for most of our lives, while living in "Lalaland", we can become misled. As well, when so many acts of violence occur in the name of Allah, we can be somewhat confused about the religion. Back to my original comment, you do not need to be any particular religion to have morals that may be found in any religious teaching. I do not disrespect the word of Islam. What I don't respect is taking violent action in the name of Islam. I don't respect violent action of any kind. I don't believe in the killing or stoning of women for the sex crimes of men. I don't believe that the threat of death or imprisonment placed on many Middle Easterners for their opinions is very Islamic. I also don't think you need to practice Islam to know that little girls do not belong on billboards barely dressed.

Advertisers are missing out - all over the world. Most people in the world are women, and most women don’t want to look at sexualized women/girls. At least in the US, most people who spend money are women. 80% of money spent is spent by women. The Founder of the Gramine Bank of Bangladesh figured this out – started lending 50% to men 50% to women, only the women paid back the loans, built the businesses, grew the household income. Now almost all of the clients are women.

Advertisers are missing out - all over the world. Most people in the world are women, and most women don’t want to look sexualized women/girls. At least in the US, most people who spend money are women. 80% of money spent is spent by women. The Founder of the Gramine Bank of Bangladesh figured this out – started lending 50% to men 50% to women, only the women paid back the loans, built the businesses, grew the household income. Now almost all of the clients are women.

Stacey:
You are right, the Bible as it is currently was written by men and as such is not the literal word of God. The message of Jesus(Peace be upon him), was the same message as that of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). We respect and honor Jesus and what he taught, and the religion taught by Jesus was Islam which means submission to God. He was a servant of God and he never referred to himself as a "Christian." The Quran is the final word of God and it was written as as it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad during his time. Do you know what the US can do? Instead of spending massive amounts of money on killing and destruction, maybe they would try to be beneficial in the world. The US spends about 4% of the GDP (Approximately $600,000,000,000) on military expenditures. The US spends only about .2% ($32,000,000,000) on foreign affairs as a whole. The portion allocated to helping underdeveloped countries is significantly less than this 32,000,000,000. What a grave injustice that the US spends its resources on destruction rather than the improvement of the lives of a majority of the people in the world who live on almost nothing. Do you know how many people around the world don't get one decent meal in a day? I have every right to criticize this and to have animosities towards the policies of this government.

Ashfaq:

Meddling in their affairs how? Where they bombing the hell out of them before Japan dropped bombs? I don't think so. Just because the American Government is made up of Christians doesn't mean they ever proclaimed the war in Iraq to be in the name of God. As I said, I don't agree with much of the American foreign policy, however, I agree less with religious wars. In our world today, wars in the name of religion are the equivalent of bigotry and intolerance. Nothing else. If there is a dispute over land, by all means work it out, but why does it need to be in the name of Allah and why does it need to be with weapons? I don't think the Americans need the oil in the Middle East and therefore need to back off of their protocols and spend the money they spend on bombs, on finding other sources of energy. Oil has been the preventative element in world peace for far too long. I have never heard George Bush say "he is in the Middle East to somehow help Allah along the events necessary to bring about the Day of Judgment. "To restore the holy land to the Children of Israel" which is for them according to his understanding of the Bible". And we as Christians do understand that our Bible was written by men, who may have their own ideals of what God wanted us to know, so I guess I find it distuubing that you cannot see the same of the Quran. I guess too that I find it hard to understand that you're not willing to see the obvious. The troubles of today, whether they be war in the middle east or sexualization of younger and younger girls, were not approached in the Quran. They were not conceived of at the time it was written, so I cannot agree that it is perfect, nor can I agree that to rely on only it as a rule in today's society is approriate. I do not agree that you are able to read the minds of other individuals and so to assume that you know what George Bush is thinking is ridiculous. If you asked me what I though he was thinking, I would say he is a little boy trying to fill big shoes, and his only concept of control is being a hero in world he has no understanding of. He doesn't want to back down from his mistakes, because for him admitting defeat is failure. I don't believe he has had religious intentions at all in the Middle East.

To Mom of 2:
I am sorry you don't agree with the topic. It was never my intention to get to this topic. However I find it hard to allow someone to place religion at the root of the issue, with anti-American (anti-Christian) comments being his expalnation of the world's social insufficiencies. I would never teach my child to not respect the religions of others in the world, andI would never tell them that other religions are reason for any of the world's injustices. Bigotry, ignorance and insecurities are the reasons.

Hey guys? Can we concentrate on the topic at hand? I'd like to hear more views on Glenda Gloria's original post, less debate on Middle East violence.

Stacey:
Only Allah has unlimited knowledge and i have very limited knowledge. However, I feel I have the information I need to make the determination which I did. You speak about America not being involved in the current genocide in Iraq in the name of God. However, if you are aware of the current administration you would find that it is made of right wing conservative Christians. President Bush thinks that he is in the Middle East to somehow help Allah along the events necessary to bring about the Day of Judgment. "To restore the holy land to the Children of Israel" which is for them according to his understanding of the Bible (which by the way is corrupted and most of what is written has nothing to do with the teachings of Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him)). You don't have the whole story regarding Japan either. The U.S. was meddling in the affairs of Japan and Japan attacked the military of the United States. They did not attack the civilian centers of the United States. However, America killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians.

Ashfaq:

You are an American? There are other ways to get unwanted Americans out of Muslim nations. Blowing oneself up, etc, in the name of Allah is not a better way to get your point across. I don't agree with a lot of American foreign policy and applauded my gov't for saying no to them, although our current leader seems to need to be buddies with George. In any case, when you say that Islam is a way to go with regards to curing the world, I don't agree, and the Americans have not gone anywhere in the world in the name of God. They may be intruding in inapprpriate manners and in inappropriate situations, but they haven't said it was for God. It seems to me, in defence of the Americans, I think that if you want to go back to Columbus to count deaths, the Middle east is holding its own. The US never went into Japan, until Japan came to the US, even though they were hiding from the World War that was being fought. And maybe they possess a trend of double standards with the actions they take, but they have never done it in the name of God. The Americans are indeed into too many things in the world, that they neither understand, nor wish to understand, but that has nothing to do with the sexualization of women and girls. You should also be careful about referencing history because I think you have read only some of the facts.

Stacey:
Call me what you want. But history has shown and proven that these so called "fanactics" have caused far less death and destruction in the world compared to the level of death and destruction caused by the American and Western world. Tell me how many innocent people were killed by the U.S. in Japan, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Latin America, America itself before the arrival of Columbus, Iraq, Afghanistan? Tell me what is the main export of the United States? Answer - military hardware. It supplies to whoever is willing to pay the regardless of what these weapons are used for. Before you accuse the Muslims of fanaticism look within. Muslims have a right to defend themselves against the aggression and occupation of their lands by the American and other foreign occupiers. Do you know how many Muslim nations are "hosting" American bases? or shall I say being forced to host them? The government of America is autocratic, despotic and tyrannical and the people of America need to wake up before it's too late.

Stacey:

I wasn't saying that girls think of Barbie or (gag)Bratz dolls as "role models"--more that it's symptomatic of the image of women in general that has been created. The need to look like a flesh version of an impossibly thin doll with big boobs and a hair color shade that I really don't think is probable in nature. That's what we give our girls to play with--usually the Princess version, too. Go figure.

As far as the Dove commercials go--I like that they use "real" women, too. Yes, they are selling a product and these "models" are promoting it (what I believe Ashfaq is saying). But that this company bucked the trend of "our product will make you look like this image of beauty" with a waif-like, over made up model as the spokesperson, and instead sends the message "you're beautiful as you are", is a push in the right direction. Face it, we still have to buy products like soap and shampoo; that's not about making ourselves look like a model, that's just good hygeniene. I think it's a good campaign.

Ashfaq:

By the way, without getting too deep in the value of a woman, the dove commercials are encouraging all of us to appreciate the women who are in the world for who they are, instead of requiring them to be the image of beauty portrayed in marketing campaigns by numerous comapnies, such as was mentioned in the original article. The Dove women are every shape, size and colour. They are all beautiful.

Ashfaq:

Fanaticism is worse than ignorance even though it is a form of ignorance. You are a fanatic, and nothing anyone says to you is going to agree with your level of awareness of the possibilities in the world. By blatantly insinuating that Islam is the only cure for what ails, you are a fanatic. By also continuing to accuse Americans for all that ails the world, you are a fanatic. You are supposed to be an American, and I who am not are less un-American than you. The current conditions you refer to are not American. They are world wide. They are worse in many parts of the world. The level and varieties of abuse against females in the world, are far more serious in Asia and the Middle East than anywhere else. Fanatics are dangerous to the world. Who blows themselves and innocent people up in the name of their god. Who crashes planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent victims in the name of their god. Where in the world have there been years of wars in the name of God for the past 50 years. If Islam is the answer to what ails the world, you are basically saying we may as well just buy one big bomb and get it done. I believe we all need religion as a balance, but not as a rule. Anyone can interpret any passage from any holy book to mean what they wish it to mean, and then apply it in their lives. But if you don't have respect for the world around you, that interpretation is bound to be untrue and unfair. The are millions of people in the world who are not heathens because they aren't Muslim, and you need to get out there and meet some of them for real, not just for fun.

Stacey:
I agree with some portion of your last comment. I however disagree with you in regards to the Dove commercials and billboards because those billboards showed women as objects also. I also feel that the solution to the current conditions of the American community can be resolved by learning from Islamic sources of knowledge. I am not saying that you need to become Muslim (although it's the truth). You should seek knowledge wherever it may be. As an example, if you were to know that a cure for a certain disease was to be found in some herbal medicines in a foreign land versus something here in America, I am sure you would run to it.

The nature of human male sexuality is an unfortunate evolutionary fact. The extent to which women (or sadly, girls) feel pressure to conform to it, however, is a most illuminating indicator of how much economic, social, etc. power men continue to wield over women. Trends towards sexualizing the very young suggest the traditional social focus on male self-interest is alive and well; and proliferating into the global norm.

Ashfaq, I really have to applaud you for keeping up a rational dialogue in the midst of considerable irrational ignorant postings. Mom of 2 I agree with all of your observations.A solution to the over sexualization of girls is to create a media blockade. I haven't had a television in my home for over 5 years. In addition I have not bought any "fashion" magazine in 2+ years. Friends of mine who have children have done the same. Their family life has improved dramatically. In a capitalistic society your ultimate vote is changing yor spending habits.Not participating in the system. The media is not "victimless". As the Bible says " As a man thinketh, he is".By watching shows like Survivor, HOw to marry a millionaire, even Americon Idol these shows focus on the baser values of greed and being covetious of others. When the President speaks of the " American Way of Life" he is speaking of an over extended consumptive way of living. My vision of America is based on freedom and opportunity for all. Opportunity is not license. I believe our American Forefathers would be dismayed at many facets of the American Experience today.

I don't think religion had anything to do with Bratz dolls and Barbie, personally. I think it is important to not narrow down our icons or limit our choices based solely on a religioous perspective either. I completely agree that Bratz and Barbie are somewhat ridiculous as role models for our little girls. Especially since I grew up playing with Barbie, and I never felt intrigued by the idea of a boob job. Never, ever. I maintain my weight by being sensibly conscious about my health and my active interests are sports. I do not need religious passages to tell me to cover myself up or have self respect. I really wish all of us could see past the religious aspect of this conversation. As I told Ashfaq early on, my ideals on dressing have never been risquee irregardless of what religion I belong to.

I think it is up to parents to reverse the cycle we are in by teaching their children that life in Hollywoood or on Billboards is firstly, not attainable by the majority of us in the world. It is also not as pleasant as one would think, based on the ridiculous "news" over the past couple of weeks and therefore not necessarily desirable. Maybe quite undesirable actually, considering the numbers of "stars" who are in rehab, divorced, dead at young ages. I think sad, very insecure people follow examples they see on TV, because they are not given any real reason to have faith in what is right in front of them. And it is up to the parents to give their children reason to value themselves and those around them, so they don't spend their lives chasing a fantasy. We need at an early age to make sure our kids can differentiate between real and pretend, without curtailing their imagination or dreams. Make sure they know it is okay to wish for something, but teach them the important dreams to wish for. I also believe that the media has been so irresponsible and that we need as a whole as one society to demand better standards. You cannot guide people with religion if they are obsessed with the pictures in People magazine, or will sit through a half hour of ET daily absorbing every detail of the celebrity life in hopes that they too will find the luxury and social stature of a bunch of punks, not responsible for anything good or bad in the world. I am sick of Britney Spears. I don't care what Paris Hilton did last weekend, and almost every gown, jewel or designer bag you see these people wearing were given or loaned to them, by marketing persons trying to make everyone else think that a twenty year old has a clue what looks good to anyone else in the world so we would be suckers and pay big bucks for them. There should be more Dove commercials and billboards everywhere. Real women, with real bodies.

Some people grow up, they figure out who they are, and they go through life maybe not famous to the world but famous in their own circles. That is my goal, and I hope my friends and family know how famous they are to me.

Mom of 2:
I agree with you.

To Ashfaq:

I noticed in an early posting you made a good point about Mary, the Blessed Mother as a role model. As a devout Catholic, I will say that is a very excellent point. In each faith, we have "role models". Where those teachings are undercut is the emphasis our media puts on undressed, underfed celebs and places them on a pedastal, while our faiths--and I say that collectively--are bashed in the mainstream as being "intolerant" because we do not believe that "everything goes" when it comes to sex. That comes from Madison Ave--the advertisers who ultimately control what we see on TV, on billboards, in the newspaper/magazines. Afterall, isn't everything just one big commercial now? And what they're selling is sex--because it does sell. We're being brainwashed to believe our sex appeal and our bank account are what matters most. Our kids are bombarded with images, and even when we do our best to keep them away, there they are. If it's not in our homes, it's in the school, in the mall, etc. . our girls grow up believing they have to be impossibly thin, big-breasted Barbies. Or worse, Bratz dolls. What doesn't help is that as adults--we worship that image too. How many moms lament that their stomachs are no longer flat, breasts are no longer firm, bottoms are droopy? How many moms spend a fortune on hair dye, make-up, and retinol creams trying to look like they're 21 when they're 40? How many moms spend their lifes on diets? How many husbands oogle women half their age and leave their wives feeling less than adequate, less secure about themselves? Since when did the great American dream become being able to afford a face lift and breast implants?

I don't believe myself that covering up every inch of a woman's body is the answer. But I do believe that, if as adults, we collectively stop allowing media images of "beauty" to distort our own perceptions of ourselves, of our spouses, our children will also learn to accept themselves and stop trying to emulate the latest skank the media has popped up on virtual alters for us to worship.

Worker and all the people who claim that Jesus Christ is loving and the Muslim religion is not.

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

The truth of the matter is, Christians can say they don't hate but the truth is, they hate whatever they don't understand. Jesus Christ may have stood with everyone but Christians only stand with people who believe as they do and want to turn the USA into the same theocracy they rail against in Muslim countries.

I'm not saying the Muslim religion is any more loving. Or the Jewish religion. Or any religion.

The sad fact is, all religions teach that theirs is the only religion is the true religion and that every other religion is evil.

Period.

TO : BT/DUNBAR

I just wanted to make sure you know that 1.3 billion people revere and follow Mohammad that's almost a forth of Mankind.
You may be aware that Islam has a greater hold on its followers than do most religions.
You probably also know that Islam is a Universal religion embracing a very wide diversity of nations and hundreds of ethinic and linguistic groups.
You may also be aware that Islam continues to be the worlds fastest growing religion.
It has always been the religion of revolt.
Read about Hussain at Karbala and you may appreciate
something about Islam and its message.

James Buchanan:
Mohammad has done more for the rights of Women than any other man in the history of the world. If you dont believe me ask any serious historian. Some of the worlds greatest universities are right here in USA, surely you may ask someone maybe at Harvard or Columbia,Rice or UCLA. Ask him to give one name worthy of comparison.

Mohammad is the most successful and influencial man of the Billions born so far (Michael Hart in his list of the 100).
You want to compare with someone. Think!

I also wonder why Europeans/Americans have not been able to produce a single Prophet.They follow all the Prophets of the Middle East yet seem to treat them with contempt.

There is nothing wrong with scantily-clad females. They want to dress provocatively and guys want to look. It's a win-win situation. Those who disapprove are usually jealous, poor, stupid, or ugly. Us real folks love to be free with any and every 'body' we can!

Hillary Clinton's Indian name

Senator Hillary Clinton was invited to address a major gathering
of The American Indian nation two weeks ago in upper New York State
She spoke for almost an hour on her future plans for increasing
Every Native American's present standard of living, should she one day
become the first female President.

She referred to her career as a New York Senator, how she had
Signed "yes" for every Indian issue that came to her desk for approval.
Although the Senator was vague on the details of her plan, she seemed most
Enthusiastic about her future ideas for helping her "red sisters and
brothers".

At the conclusion of her speech, the Tribes presented the Senator with a
Plaque inscribed with her new Indian name - Walking Eagle.

The proud Senator then departed in her motorcade, waving to the
Crowds. A news reporter later inquired of the group of chiefs of how
they Had come to select the new name given to the Senator.

They explained that Walking Eagle is the name given to a bird so
full of crap it can no longer fly.

Ashfaq:

While I'm sure we all appreciate your attempt to view this topic from an Islamic perspective, it is like trying to figure out someone's religion before giving them medical care. In a situation of life and death, who cares what religion has to say. Whether the person to be treated is a muslim, a christian or a jew, you give them medical care and save their lives. Then you can ask philosophical or contemplate the religious ramifications.

The abuse of children is likewise a medical crisis; a life or death emergency that needs no religious or philosophical contemplation. As a society of HUMANS we need to act, not think abut acting.

If you ever see a child being abused, ANY child, your own or someone else's, what would you do? Wonder what the Prophet would do? Or would you act immediately to save a child? This is the real topic here. Forget scriptures for a moment. You don't need scriptures to tell you what to do. You sound like a decent human being, all I ask is that you stop thinking through the Quran or through someone else's opinion when contemplating the welfare of children.

Just to let everyone know that I am trying to view this topic from an Islamic perspective according to whatever knowledge I have. Please forgive me for any shortcomings in my knowledge.

Stacey:

"Is it possible that by educating men to have respect for all women, no matter what they are wearing, or what class level they belong to?"
Absolutely, men should respect women regardless of what they are wearing, what class level they belong to, etc. Women should also respect themselves as individuals and not fall victim to the media's view of what a woman should be.

"Is it possible to teach them to learn self control?"
Yes, however, as a Christian I am sure you must be aware of the inherent nature of human beings. Humans have been created weak (although some people think they are high and mighty and powerful). Within our self there is a constant "fight" between the good self and the evil self. In addition, there is the constant whispers of satan and his allies (the media, his friends amongst the human race) who tries to deceive human beings to conduct actions which are contrary to the commands of God. Teaching self-control will help, but it has to be done in conjunction with reducing the impact of satan's allies especially the media.

"Why do we women need to cover ourselves, in order for the world to be rape free? Or in order for there to be no extra-marital sexual relations between men and women? Sure you want to reduce the occurance, but don't you think it is up to each indivdual to decide for themselves what they want to do?"
One of the Islamic teachings is that "There is no compulsion in religion." This means that you cannot force an individual to believe something or do something which the individual does not prefer. The right to dress modestly is in the hands of each woman.

Stacey:
There are areas in the world where women are not allowed to vote, get an education, etc., however that has nothing to do with Islam. The first verses which were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) by God (Allah) (Glorified is He) states the importance of gaining an education for men and women. If there are people in the world who do not act according to the commandment of God, then they are being disobedient. Again, I would just like to state that the Quran is perfect and God is perfect but individuals are not. In regards to modesty, the Bible itself asks women to be modest in their attire. The responsibility of being morally upright lies on both the man and the woman. As I have already stated, men should control their illicit lusts and desires and should lower their gaze. However, women should not dress in a way which contributes to creating these lusts and possibly creating an undesirable situation for the woman. However, in no way is rape or sexual assault, etc. an acceptable act regardless of what the woman decides to wear. The Islamic teachings regarding modesty do not completely eliminate evil acts since individuals will in the end do what their souls are directed towards, however they are there as a protection. An analogy to this is the usage of condoms or other contraceptives. These contraceptives are not 100% fool-proof, but they provide a higher level of protection against unplanned pregnancies. Without the contraceptive there would be many unwanted pregnancies and in the case of promiscious individuals, greater levels of contraction of STD's.

Stacey:
I apologize if it seems that way. I will look at your questions above and try my best to respond.

Ashfaq,

One thing I have noticed in your postings is that you will respond the other men who post comments to you, but you will not respond to me, a woman. You have responded directly to many others who addressed your perspective, but you ignore me. Why is that? You did not answer my questions to you. I think you and I started a major discussion here and yet you are not willing to acknowledge me.

James:
Please read my previous posts. As I have already mentioned, each individual is responsible for his/her own action. Also, to be honest with you, there are more individuals who would be considered "dogs" in the American and Western societies then there are in the Muslim majority societies. Also, I have noticed that musicians admire and promote the image of man as "dogs" as if it's an admirable quality for individuals to have. We respect our women, not use them to sell products.

Dear Asfaq,

I wipe my butt with the Quran. Its about the most intelligent use of it.

If you Muslim boys weren't dogs, then your women wouldn't have to cover so much meat, wouldn't they? But then, Allah forbid a Muslim man hold himself accountable for his actions, he's only following Allah's will, or whatever halfwit, brainless excuse you dogs use these days.

To all the relgious zealots constantly quoting some prophet, whether it be jesus, muhammad or moses, please GET A LIFE and start doing your own thinking. This blog was started to talk about a real issue in the world: the repeated and constant abuse of children.

When we are old, vulnerable and decrepid, the same children being abused today won't be inclined to take care of their elders, and who could blame them. Will they turn to religion to understand the meaning of their abuse? I'm guessing probably not. Whether their abuser was a catholic priest, their uncle or their father, chances are they will be angry and damaged for life, and definitely not inclined to turn to their parents' faith. After all their parents' faith in whatever God didn't protect them from abuse early in life, so why should it be a source of comfort now?

We are all free to practice whatever religion we want and we are all free to claim aloud how devout we are; just go do it in some other blog devoted to religion.