magandang araw po sa inyong lahat..salamat po sa pagkakataong ibinigay nyo na maaari po kaming maglagay ng komento tungkol sa inyong mga isinulat..
Nais ko lang po ipahatid sa inyo na sa aking opinyon, hindi po nakadudulot ng magandang resulta ang mga inilathala nyo sa artikolong ito..
may iilan pong mga filipino sa labas ng bansa ang nakakabasa nito..pati na po mga foreigners...at inakala po nilang ganyan talaga ang mga filipina kahit may ilan ding hindi totoo..
nakakasira lang po ito sa dignidad ng mga filipina..and sa tingin ko nagdadala lang ito ng dungis sa ating pagkatao..
Maraming Salamat Po..

Ok people calm down,

First off this isn't a forum to blast terrorism, religion or any other topic EXCEPT teen girls and oversexualization. Yes it is a problem to the Filipino community, but like wise to every other white, black, and brown family with teenagers today. It is the responsibility of the parents as well as the child to know where they stand with appearance and sexuality. And with that it is in the interest of both to make informed decisions as opposed to ones given by books.

Also I am saddened that people would resort to mud-slinging and going on racial tirades and epithets when we are supposed to be a outgoing society. So guess what people if the rest off the world wants to call us hypocrites, congratulations you made their case.

I have one more thing especially to this "religious" debate. Please read Genesis again and when you finally accept that when Adam and Eve bit the apple it wasn't making them good or bad. It was giving them the power to make their own decisions whether they be good or evil. SO get out of the garden folks. You're way overdue.

Thank God! I am not Christian or Muslim (or anything else). I am an intelligent, pretty and sexy girl with a great career and a nice husband who would cook for me. The men treat their women badly because they are not proud of their culture. The western colonization destroyed the culture and the pride. It takes hundreds of years to build what was lost, but it is better to start sooner than squeezing a little bit of money from the pockets of your western friends who would not give a damn about your country.

You people have no sense of anything...you can really tell who here was a mature one by the way they spoke and who just simply turned stupid and started attacaking...why do americans have to prove their arrogance to the rest...no wonder everybody hates us...we cant even talk calmly and respectfully to each other...its discusting...

Dear Muck Taddah,

Don your bullet-proof turban, Porky Pig,
before you raise your head to slay all of the infidels. Four billion people are not going to roll over and play doormat to a faux-pashah from a slums of history.

From your worst nightmare...

An armed Jew.

Religious debate aside since that is really not what the article is about, I'm more concerned with the degree skin whitening products are used. While Filipinas are trying to make themselves more fair Caucasians are trying to to make themselves more tan. Filipinas should be proud of their brown skin. They should realize that "Americans" are going to the tanning salon and slathering all these bronzers to get the color they naturally have.

Whatever happened to the parents? Didn't the parents/grandparents of these kids teach them to love and respect their bodies? Parents/Guardians should be the primary teacher in their children's lives, not the media or religion so don't blame should not be put on these outlets.

The problem isn't billboards.
Are you insecure about how you look?
mad because you weren't allowed to enjoy your own beauty? jealous?

I'm not in great shape but I don't get all disgusted when Mr. Washboard abs is on some H&M billboard.

Humans need to ditch the shame about the body.
The Catholic guilt and repression in the Phil is probably a major factor in how you feel. You can thank the spanish inquisition style execution, rape and dismantling of the original Phillipino people for that.

All the same, most people I meet from Asia are in general very ashamed of public affection, fear their parents and have little will to think for themselves about major career and lifestyle decisions.
So you are merely experiencing the contrast to your otherwise repressive society.

Girls: don't be ashamed.
live your lives, be beautiful, sleep with who you want and don't let some stupid man say you can or can't do anything.

EQUALITY NOW.

oh and if you can't stop looking... you're the problem.

Ashfaq:
So Americans and their society are to blame for all the ills of the world. Funny how all the tribes of man are represented in my country. And in my tribe women make their own decisions. If men and women were not meant to be attracted to each other then God surely would have made it that way. But as the Muslim and Christian religions were founded by brothers with different mothers why do we fight? Would the father Abraham surely have disowned us all for our ways. Think about it.

Stacey:
I think you misunderstood what I said. A person may be Muslim and not practicing all aspects of his/her religion. So if a friend of yours or a friend of your friend has experienced a situation in which she was denied a right to divorce, then I was simply stating that the person's husband was not acting upon an Islamic principle which allows the woman to ask for divorce. It seems to me that actually you have a narrow view and you can't come to terms with truth.

Ashfaq:

They are wholeheartedly practicing Muslim. Just because they disagree with you does not make them less dedicated. Your comment is just more evidence of your narrow mindness. If it doesn't agree with you it is wrong.

Stacey:
According to the Islamic perspective, humans are born in a state of purity unlike the Judeo-Christian perspective which stipulates that we are born as sinners. We are born with what is called "fitrah" - a natural disposition to submit to God and do what is right. However, God has not left us in the dark. He has given guidance (the Quran) to show us and help us to stay on the natural course of our selves. Those who go against the natural state are being disobedient to their Creator. Also, regarding the issue of divorce. Divorce is the last step which is taken when a marital relationship is not working in Islam. Both the man and the woman have the right to ask for divorce. Perhaps these Muslims whom you are retrieving the information from or about are not wholeheartedly practicing the religion of Islam.

Ashfaq:

Actually I am Canadian. As I said our last leader saaid no toBush and in reurn we were treated as traitors. But because I am a big girl, I knew that that perception of Canadians was limited to an ignorant few, and I did not hold it against all Americans. The same is true of Muslims. You say typically, western men have mistresses. This is not typical. Within my circle, I can say that no one I know is a cheater. Not my father, brothers, husband, friends. We all have value in our lives as they are, and are thereforee not interested in branching out, so to speak. We took our time and made sure we were with the one we wanted, not a partner deemed appropriate, and therefore feel blessed. We do not need our religion to tell us that cheating is wrong, and that it causes nothing but pain. You marriage agreement may exists in America, but not everywhere, and there is limited rights for the woman in most Muslim societies. A man can divorce a woman as he pleases, but she cannot. I know this from my Muslim friends.

Stacey:
The western world has committed many atrocities against the Muslim lands and its peoples. As Muslims we have a right to defend ourselves against that. You are not really objectively looking at the history. Reflect upon the fact that your country colonialized the Muslim lands and killed Muslim peoples. What is happening recently is a consequence of that. Tell your government to leave the Muslims alone. Your country (Britain I suppose) will never do so because you have a scarcity of resources and history has shown the extent to which your society will go to satisfy its material desires. The western world has robbed and continues to rob countless billions of people all throughout the world and has kept them in abject poverty.

Stacey:
Islam allows a Muslim man to marry up to four wives. The marriage to four wives in conditional. A woman can stipulate however in the marital contract prior to the marriage that she does not wish her husband to have any other wife. Also, should the woman allow the husband to have other wife or wives, the man has the responsibility to be scrupulously fair to each one of them. He has to be equal in all respect. He has to spend equal time with them, equal financial resources, etc. It's a responsibility and on the Day of Judgment he will have to answer for any unfairness. Islam gives legal rights to the wives. In Western society typically a man has a wife and mistresses on the side whom he typically does not take responsibility for. The mistress is used simply for sexual gratification. So which system is better? One in which the women are made wives and given legal rights or a system in which a woman is simply a concubine and has no legal recourse?

Ashfaq:

Infidelity - As a Muslim, how many wives will you have or do you wish to have. In my eyes, many Muslim men are hypocrits, because they claim to be holy, yet they have several wives. Does a Muslim woman have the right to take many husbands? No. When you take young men and promise them 16 virgins in heaven so that they will commit heinous crimes against innocent men, women and children in the name of Allah is this holy? Anytime a Christian in the past number of years has done some horrible deed, killing their wife or their children or going to war and taking aim at the wrong building or vehicle, they have not come back and said it was for God. There are many people in the world who do not live under the Islamic guide, and they are people we respect and cherish. If they were Muslim and behaved the same way we would respect and cherish them the same. As I said earlier Ashfaq, being a fanatic is dangerous. Being so fanatical about your beliefs that you turn your back on your homeland is even more dangerous. Many of the persons responsible for the massive horrible events in the Western world in the past 7 years, were Muslim, and they were fanatics who could see no further than their religion. Maybe it was because they had nothing else. Maybe they were preyed upon by "leaders" who made them feel they had no other choice for life here, so do this and go forward to peace and happiness. Is this the way we should think since we are not devout enough as non-Mulsims?

Mother of 2:

I would suggest a book, if you haven't already read it: "Consuming Kids: The hostile takeover of childhood" by Susan Linn.

It's about the effect of advertising aimed at children. Before 1980, advertising aimed at children was strictly legislated and controlled. Then advertisers realized what a many-billion-dollar market share they could tap into by advertising that exploits children and creates disharmony in families by encouraging children to "nag" their parents for consumer goods. It's a great book.

Truth:
Actually even though I was born as a Muslim, I did not come to the realization that Islam was the truth and the best way of life for mankind until I was into adulthood. I used to practice certain aspects of the religion because my parents had wanted me to when i was young but it never had an effect on me. So I did "experience" the world (May God forgive me) and I am speaking about the corruption and immorality prevalent in society with an objective criterion. I came to a realization that the way the people are living their life in a materialistic, worldly manner is not the right way to live. As a Muslim I have a concern both for this current life in the world and in the life to come in the herafter. I have to place emphasis on both lives. This life is short and full of hardships and the life to come is eternal and full of happiness and bliss. If you choose to enjoy yourself to the utmost in this life, you are making a big sacrifice. How long are you going to enjoy this life? 60 years? 70 years? What will happen to you after that? I will tell you what happens. First, if you were rebellious and disobedient to God then you will face punishment in the grave. Then when God decides to bring about the Day of Judgment for all of mankind, you will be thrown in the hellfire for eternity. an eternity of punishment for 60 years of disobedience vs. an eternity of happiness for 60 years of obedience. BTW when I speak of "you" it is for the general human not you in particular. It applies to you and me and everyone in society.

In reality, one of the major reasons why a lot of muslims in the world are in the pathetic state (fanatic, rebellious, over-relegious, highly intolerant = nonaccomodative) is that a majority of them, right from the times they were born, have not experienced freedom (free thought) in the proper sense. This is probably true for individuals like Ashfaq, who despite living in America (apparently, the epitome of free will and thought) has been tied into that relegious school of thought which hasnt let him explore the world as he should have originally done. I only feel sorry for him, for he doesnt understand wt he is loosing. May be never will have his share of 'fun' in life (Not necessarily sexual freedom). Unfortunately the men in their community decides for their women, so cannot blame their women for their sad state [At the bottom of their heart, even your pharmacist or doctor sister will be sad Ashfaq, it makes it even sadder that they are not able to define it since they have their thought process moulded to such an extent].

To the contrary, american women [over sexualised in this context ( because what you see is wt you are looking for) ] are a subset of those women who are fortunate to have experienced free thought and free will. Having a liberal sexual attitude or starting your own successful business amounts to the same concept in this context.

Stacey:
Let me ask you a question Stacey. Why don't you follow the Torah which was revealed to Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him)? I'll answer that it's because Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) was created by Allah without a father and he was given revelation because the Torah had been corrupted. Similarly, the Bible (which we call the Injeel and which we believe was revealed to Jesus - not in its current form however) was corrupted and so Allah sent His final message to Prophet Muhammad. If you choose to deny this message then you will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment. It's your choice though since as a human being you have free will. I also believe violence is wrong unless it's to defend yourself against an aggressor and to stop corruption in the land. In regards to adultery, there is punishment for it in Islam as well as in Christianity (It's considered a major sin even in Christianity). In Islam it is required that four witnesses had witnessed the act of adultery (which is very difficult to find). The application of stoning is a deterrent measure against immorality and decay in society and it is applicable to both the male and the female. As you know the American society has a 50% divorce rate which is due predominantly to infidelity. Families are breaking apart and this has serious ramifications on the children and society. How many people do you think would cheat on their spouses under the threat of stoning? Allah's wisdom and knowledge in infinite and we have very little knowledge. However, it's clear that adultery is deleterious to society. There are ignorant people everywhere and some of the acts which happen in countries which are predominantly Muslim are isolated incidents which are glorified by the media to serve its purposes. I condemn any act which goes against Islamic teachings.

Ashfaq:

Jesus never referred to himself as a Christian, because Christians are those who believe he existed, that he came to us as the son of God, taught us his word, and died for our sins. His name when he was here was not Jesus Christ, and his teachings were the beginnings or the basis of Christianity. His teachings were simply parables on events that did or could occur that contained spitiual messages, that would guide us in life if we listened. The stories of his life and the writings of his followers contained in the Ne Testament of the Bible outline the life and lessons of Jesus' time on earth. Those who read and follow these are Christian. If you respect and honor Jesus and his teachings, then why do you think we need to follow Islamic ways and not our own Christian beliefs. And why do you think that the cause of George Bush's poor judgement (as well as the government he runs) is his being Christian, right wing or not? I will tell you a little secret. Some people show up at church every week on Sunday, but don't live as Christians outside of that hour. There are also many Christians who don't necessarily go to Church every week, but lives their lives by Jesus' teachings all their lives. What I think you don't understand about my arguements is this: Not all Americans are following the same logic as their current leader. And he may be making many mistakes, but they have nothing to do with his religious background. What may be a theory to consider is that he (the military) acted in a violent manner in Iraq and in Afghanistan, because t"he"y stupidly (not naively) believed that was the only kind of action that would make sense in the area as a method of attempting to capture control. When we as westerners have seen violence throughout the Middle East for most of our lives, while living in "Lalaland", we can become misled. As well, when so many acts of violence occur in the name of Allah, we can be somewhat confused about the religion. Back to my original comment, you do not need to be any particular religion to have morals that may be found in any religious teaching. I do not disrespect the word of Islam. What I don't respect is taking violent action in the name of Islam. I don't respect violent action of any kind. I don't believe in the killing or stoning of women for the sex crimes of men. I don't believe that the threat of death or imprisonment placed on many Middle Easterners for their opinions is very Islamic. I also don't think you need to practice Islam to know that little girls do not belong on billboards barely dressed.

Advertisers are missing out - all over the world. Most people in the world are women, and most women don’t want to look at sexualized women/girls. At least in the US, most people who spend money are women. 80% of money spent is spent by women. The Founder of the Gramine Bank of Bangladesh figured this out – started lending 50% to men 50% to women, only the women paid back the loans, built the businesses, grew the household income. Now almost all of the clients are women.

Advertisers are missing out - all over the world. Most people in the world are women, and most women don’t want to look sexualized women/girls. At least in the US, most people who spend money are women. 80% of money spent is spent by women. The Founder of the Gramine Bank of Bangladesh figured this out – started lending 50% to men 50% to women, only the women paid back the loans, built the businesses, grew the household income. Now almost all of the clients are women.

Stacey:
You are right, the Bible as it is currently was written by men and as such is not the literal word of God. The message of Jesus(Peace be upon him), was the same message as that of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). We respect and honor Jesus and what he taught, and the religion taught by Jesus was Islam which means submission to God. He was a servant of God and he never referred to himself as a "Christian." The Quran is the final word of God and it was written as as it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad during his time. Do you know what the US can do? Instead of spending massive amounts of money on killing and destruction, maybe they would try to be beneficial in the world. The US spends about 4% of the GDP (Approximately $600,000,000,000) on military expenditures. The US spends only about .2% ($32,000,000,000) on foreign affairs as a whole. The portion allocated to helping underdeveloped countries is significantly less than this 32,000,000,000. What a grave injustice that the US spends its resources on destruction rather than the improvement of the lives of a majority of the people in the world who live on almost nothing. Do you know how many people around the world don't get one decent meal in a day? I have every right to criticize this and to have animosities towards the policies of this government.

Ashfaq:

Meddling in their affairs how? Where they bombing the hell out of them before Japan dropped bombs? I don't think so. Just because the American Government is made up of Christians doesn't mean they ever proclaimed the war in Iraq to be in the name of God. As I said, I don't agree with much of the American foreign policy, however, I agree less with religious wars. In our world today, wars in the name of religion are the equivalent of bigotry and intolerance. Nothing else. If there is a dispute over land, by all means work it out, but why does it need to be in the name of Allah and why does it need to be with weapons? I don't think the Americans need the oil in the Middle East and therefore need to back off of their protocols and spend the money they spend on bombs, on finding other sources of energy. Oil has been the preventative element in world peace for far too long. I have never heard George Bush say "he is in the Middle East to somehow help Allah along the events necessary to bring about the Day of Judgment. "To restore the holy land to the Children of Israel" which is for them according to his understanding of the Bible". And we as Christians do understand that our Bible was written by men, who may have their own ideals of what God wanted us to know, so I guess I find it distuubing that you cannot see the same of the Quran. I guess too that I find it hard to understand that you're not willing to see the obvious. The troubles of today, whether they be war in the middle east or sexualization of younger and younger girls, were not approached in the Quran. They were not conceived of at the time it was written, so I cannot agree that it is perfect, nor can I agree that to rely on only it as a rule in today's society is approriate. I do not agree that you are able to read the minds of other individuals and so to assume that you know what George Bush is thinking is ridiculous. If you asked me what I though he was thinking, I would say he is a little boy trying to fill big shoes, and his only concept of control is being a hero in world he has no understanding of. He doesn't want to back down from his mistakes, because for him admitting defeat is failure. I don't believe he has had religious intentions at all in the Middle East.

To Mom of 2:
I am sorry you don't agree with the topic. It was never my intention to get to this topic. However I find it hard to allow someone to place religion at the root of the issue, with anti-American (anti-Christian) comments being his expalnation of the world's social insufficiencies. I would never teach my child to not respect the religions of others in the world, andI would never tell them that other religions are reason for any of the world's injustices. Bigotry, ignorance and insecurities are the reasons.

Hey guys? Can we concentrate on the topic at hand? I'd like to hear more views on Glenda Gloria's original post, less debate on Middle East violence.

Stacey:
Only Allah has unlimited knowledge and i have very limited knowledge. However, I feel I have the information I need to make the determination which I did. You speak about America not being involved in the current genocide in Iraq in the name of God. However, if you are aware of the current administration you would find that it is made of right wing conservative Christians. President Bush thinks that he is in the Middle East to somehow help Allah along the events necessary to bring about the Day of Judgment. "To restore the holy land to the Children of Israel" which is for them according to his understanding of the Bible (which by the way is corrupted and most of what is written has nothing to do with the teachings of Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him)). You don't have the whole story regarding Japan either. The U.S. was meddling in the affairs of Japan and Japan attacked the military of the United States. They did not attack the civilian centers of the United States. However, America killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians.

Ashfaq:

You are an American? There are other ways to get unwanted Americans out of Muslim nations. Blowing oneself up, etc, in the name of Allah is not a better way to get your point across. I don't agree with a lot of American foreign policy and applauded my gov't for saying no to them, although our current leader seems to need to be buddies with George. In any case, when you say that Islam is a way to go with regards to curing the world, I don't agree, and the Americans have not gone anywhere in the world in the name of God. They may be intruding in inapprpriate manners and in inappropriate situations, but they haven't said it was for God. It seems to me, in defence of the Americans, I think that if you want to go back to Columbus to count deaths, the Middle east is holding its own. The US never went into Japan, until Japan came to the US, even though they were hiding from the World War that was being fought. And maybe they possess a trend of double standards with the actions they take, but they have never done it in the name of God. The Americans are indeed into too many things in the world, that they neither understand, nor wish to understand, but that has nothing to do with the sexualization of women and girls. You should also be careful about referencing history because I think you have read only some of the facts.

Stacey:
Call me what you want. But history has shown and proven that these so called "fanactics" have caused far less death and destruction in the world compared to the level of death and destruction caused by the American and Western world. Tell me how many innocent people were killed by the U.S. in Japan, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Latin America, America itself before the arrival of Columbus, Iraq, Afghanistan? Tell me what is the main export of the United States? Answer - military hardware. It supplies to whoever is willing to pay the regardless of what these weapons are used for. Before you accuse the Muslims of fanaticism look within. Muslims have a right to defend themselves against the aggression and occupation of their lands by the American and other foreign occupiers. Do you know how many Muslim nations are "hosting" American bases? or shall I say being forced to host them? The government of America is autocratic, despotic and tyrannical and the people of America need to wake up before it's too late.

Stacey:

I wasn't saying that girls think of Barbie or (gag)Bratz dolls as "role models"--more that it's symptomatic of the image of women in general that has been created. The need to look like a flesh version of an impossibly thin doll with big boobs and a hair color shade that I really don't think is probable in nature. That's what we give our girls to play with--usually the Princess version, too. Go figure.

As far as the Dove commercials go--I like that they use "real" women, too. Yes, they are selling a product and these "models" are promoting it (what I believe Ashfaq is saying). But that this company bucked the trend of "our product will make you look like this image of beauty" with a waif-like, over made up model as the spokesperson, and instead sends the message "you're beautiful as you are", is a push in the right direction. Face it, we still have to buy products like soap and shampoo; that's not about making ourselves look like a model, that's just good hygeniene. I think it's a good campaign.

Ashfaq:

By the way, without getting too deep in the value of a woman, the dove commercials are encouraging all of us to appreciate the women who are in the world for who they are, instead of requiring them to be the image of beauty portrayed in marketing campaigns by numerous comapnies, such as was mentioned in the original article. The Dove women are every shape, size and colour. They are all beautiful.

Ashfaq:

Fanaticism is worse than ignorance even though it is a form of ignorance. You are a fanatic, and nothing anyone says to you is going to agree with your level of awareness of the possibilities in the world. By blatantly insinuating that Islam is the only cure for what ails, you are a fanatic. By also continuing to accuse Americans for all that ails the world, you are a fanatic. You are supposed to be an American, and I who am not are less un-American than you. The current conditions you refer to are not American. They are world wide. They are worse in many parts of the world. The level and varieties of abuse against females in the world, are far more serious in Asia and the Middle East than anywhere else. Fanatics are dangerous to the world. Who blows themselves and innocent people up in the name of their god. Who crashes planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent victims in the name of their god. Where in the world have there been years of wars in the name of God for the past 50 years. If Islam is the answer to what ails the world, you are basically saying we may as well just buy one big bomb and get it done. I believe we all need religion as a balance, but not as a rule. Anyone can interpret any passage from any holy book to mean what they wish it to mean, and then apply it in their lives. But if you don't have respect for the world around you, that interpretation is bound to be untrue and unfair. The are millions of people in the world who are not heathens because they aren't Muslim, and you need to get out there and meet some of them for real, not just for fun.

Stacey:
I agree with some portion of your last comment. I however disagree with you in regards to the Dove commercials and billboards because those billboards showed women as objects also. I also feel that the solution to the current conditions of the American community can be resolved by learning from Islamic sources of knowledge. I am not saying that you need to become Muslim (although it's the truth). You should seek knowledge wherever it may be. As an example, if you were to know that a cure for a certain disease was to be found in some herbal medicines in a foreign land versus something here in America, I am sure you would run to it.

The nature of human male sexuality is an unfortunate evolutionary fact. The extent to which women (or sadly, girls) feel pressure to conform to it, however, is a most illuminating indicator of how much economic, social, etc. power men continue to wield over women. Trends towards sexualizing the very young suggest the traditional social focus on male self-interest is alive and well; and proliferating into the global norm.

Ashfaq, I really have to applaud you for keeping up a rational dialogue in the midst of considerable irrational ignorant postings. Mom of 2 I agree with all of your observations.A solution to the over sexualization of girls is to create a media blockade. I haven't had a television in my home for over 5 years. In addition I have not bought any "fashion" magazine in 2+ years. Friends of mine who have children have done the same. Their family life has improved dramatically. In a capitalistic society your ultimate vote is changing yor spending habits.Not participating in the system. The media is not "victimless". As the Bible says " As a man thinketh, he is".By watching shows like Survivor, HOw to marry a millionaire, even Americon Idol these shows focus on the baser values of greed and being covetious of others. When the President speaks of the " American Way of Life" he is speaking of an over extended consumptive way of living. My vision of America is based on freedom and opportunity for all. Opportunity is not license. I believe our American Forefathers would be dismayed at many facets of the American Experience today.

I don't think religion had anything to do with Bratz dolls and Barbie, personally. I think it is important to not narrow down our icons or limit our choices based solely on a religioous perspective either. I completely agree that Bratz and Barbie are somewhat ridiculous as role models for our little girls. Especially since I grew up playing with Barbie, and I never felt intrigued by the idea of a boob job. Never, ever. I maintain my weight by being sensibly conscious about my health and my active interests are sports. I do not need religious passages to tell me to cover myself up or have self respect. I really wish all of us could see past the religious aspect of this conversation. As I told Ashfaq early on, my ideals on dressing have never been risquee irregardless of what religion I belong to.

I think it is up to parents to reverse the cycle we are in by teaching their children that life in Hollywoood or on Billboards is firstly, not attainable by the majority of us in the world. It is also not as pleasant as one would think, based on the ridiculous "news" over the past couple of weeks and therefore not necessarily desirable. Maybe quite undesirable actually, considering the numbers of "stars" who are in rehab, divorced, dead at young ages. I think sad, very insecure people follow examples they see on TV, because they are not given any real reason to have faith in what is right in front of them. And it is up to the parents to give their children reason to value themselves and those around them, so they don't spend their lives chasing a fantasy. We need at an early age to make sure our kids can differentiate between real and pretend, without curtailing their imagination or dreams. Make sure they know it is okay to wish for something, but teach them the important dreams to wish for. I also believe that the media has been so irresponsible and that we need as a whole as one society to demand better standards. You cannot guide people with religion if they are obsessed with the pictures in People magazine, or will sit through a half hour of ET daily absorbing every detail of the celebrity life in hopes that they too will find the luxury and social stature of a bunch of punks, not responsible for anything good or bad in the world. I am sick of Britney Spears. I don't care what Paris Hilton did last weekend, and almost every gown, jewel or designer bag you see these people wearing were given or loaned to them, by marketing persons trying to make everyone else think that a twenty year old has a clue what looks good to anyone else in the world so we would be suckers and pay big bucks for them. There should be more Dove commercials and billboards everywhere. Real women, with real bodies.

Some people grow up, they figure out who they are, and they go through life maybe not famous to the world but famous in their own circles. That is my goal, and I hope my friends and family know how famous they are to me.

Mom of 2:
I agree with you.

To Ashfaq:

I noticed in an early posting you made a good point about Mary, the Blessed Mother as a role model. As a devout Catholic, I will say that is a very excellent point. In each faith, we have "role models". Where those teachings are undercut is the emphasis our media puts on undressed, underfed celebs and places them on a pedastal, while our faiths--and I say that collectively--are bashed in the mainstream as being "intolerant" because we do not believe that "everything goes" when it comes to sex. That comes from Madison Ave--the advertisers who ultimately control what we see on TV, on billboards, in the newspaper/magazines. Afterall, isn't everything just one big commercial now? And what they're selling is sex--because it does sell. We're being brainwashed to believe our sex appeal and our bank account are what matters most. Our kids are bombarded with images, and even when we do our best to keep them away, there they are. If it's not in our homes, it's in the school, in the mall, etc. . our girls grow up believing they have to be impossibly thin, big-breasted Barbies. Or worse, Bratz dolls. What doesn't help is that as adults--we worship that image too. How many moms lament that their stomachs are no longer flat, breasts are no longer firm, bottoms are droopy? How many moms spend a fortune on hair dye, make-up, and retinol creams trying to look like they're 21 when they're 40? How many moms spend their lifes on diets? How many husbands oogle women half their age and leave their wives feeling less than adequate, less secure about themselves? Since when did the great American dream become being able to afford a face lift and breast implants?

I don't believe myself that covering up every inch of a woman's body is the answer. But I do believe that, if as adults, we collectively stop allowing media images of "beauty" to distort our own perceptions of ourselves, of our spouses, our children will also learn to accept themselves and stop trying to emulate the latest skank the media has popped up on virtual alters for us to worship.

Worker and all the people who claim that Jesus Christ is loving and the Muslim religion is not.

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

The truth of the matter is, Christians can say they don't hate but the truth is, they hate whatever they don't understand. Jesus Christ may have stood with everyone but Christians only stand with people who believe as they do and want to turn the USA into the same theocracy they rail against in Muslim countries.

I'm not saying the Muslim religion is any more loving. Or the Jewish religion. Or any religion.

The sad fact is, all religions teach that theirs is the only religion is the true religion and that every other religion is evil.

Period.

TO : BT/DUNBAR

I just wanted to make sure you know that 1.3 billion people revere and follow Mohammad that's almost a forth of Mankind.
You may be aware that Islam has a greater hold on its followers than do most religions.
You probably also know that Islam is a Universal religion embracing a very wide diversity of nations and hundreds of ethinic and linguistic groups.
You may also be aware that Islam continues to be the worlds fastest growing religion.
It has always been the religion of revolt.
Read about Hussain at Karbala and you may appreciate
something about Islam and its message.

James Buchanan:
Mohammad has done more for the rights of Women than any other man in the history of the world. If you dont believe me ask any serious historian. Some of the worlds greatest universities are right here in USA, surely you may ask someone maybe at Harvard or Columbia,Rice or UCLA. Ask him to give one name worthy of comparison.

Mohammad is the most successful and influencial man of the Billions born so far (Michael Hart in his list of the 100).
You want to compare with someone. Think!

I also wonder why Europeans/Americans have not been able to produce a single Prophet.They follow all the Prophets of the Middle East yet seem to treat them with contempt.

There is nothing wrong with scantily-clad females. They want to dress provocatively and guys want to look. It's a win-win situation. Those who disapprove are usually jealous, poor, stupid, or ugly. Us real folks love to be free with any and every 'body' we can!

Hillary Clinton's Indian name

Senator Hillary Clinton was invited to address a major gathering
of The American Indian nation two weeks ago in upper New York State
She spoke for almost an hour on her future plans for increasing
Every Native American's present standard of living, should she one day
become the first female President.

She referred to her career as a New York Senator, how she had
Signed "yes" for every Indian issue that came to her desk for approval.
Although the Senator was vague on the details of her plan, she seemed most
Enthusiastic about her future ideas for helping her "red sisters and
brothers".

At the conclusion of her speech, the Tribes presented the Senator with a
Plaque inscribed with her new Indian name - Walking Eagle.

The proud Senator then departed in her motorcade, waving to the
Crowds. A news reporter later inquired of the group of chiefs of how
they Had come to select the new name given to the Senator.

They explained that Walking Eagle is the name given to a bird so
full of crap it can no longer fly.

Ashfaq:

While I'm sure we all appreciate your attempt to view this topic from an Islamic perspective, it is like trying to figure out someone's religion before giving them medical care. In a situation of life and death, who cares what religion has to say. Whether the person to be treated is a muslim, a christian or a jew, you give them medical care and save their lives. Then you can ask philosophical or contemplate the religious ramifications.

The abuse of children is likewise a medical crisis; a life or death emergency that needs no religious or philosophical contemplation. As a society of HUMANS we need to act, not think abut acting.

If you ever see a child being abused, ANY child, your own or someone else's, what would you do? Wonder what the Prophet would do? Or would you act immediately to save a child? This is the real topic here. Forget scriptures for a moment. You don't need scriptures to tell you what to do. You sound like a decent human being, all I ask is that you stop thinking through the Quran or through someone else's opinion when contemplating the welfare of children.

Just to let everyone know that I am trying to view this topic from an Islamic perspective according to whatever knowledge I have. Please forgive me for any shortcomings in my knowledge.

Stacey:

"Is it possible that by educating men to have respect for all women, no matter what they are wearing, or what class level they belong to?"
Absolutely, men should respect women regardless of what they are wearing, what class level they belong to, etc. Women should also respect themselves as individuals and not fall victim to the media's view of what a woman should be.

"Is it possible to teach them to learn self control?"
Yes, however, as a Christian I am sure you must be aware of the inherent nature of human beings. Humans have been created weak (although some people think they are high and mighty and powerful). Within our self there is a constant "fight" between the good self and the evil self. In addition, there is the constant whispers of satan and his allies (the media, his friends amongst the human race) who tries to deceive human beings to conduct actions which are contrary to the commands of God. Teaching self-control will help, but it has to be done in conjunction with reducing the impact of satan's allies especially the media.

"Why do we women need to cover ourselves, in order for the world to be rape free? Or in order for there to be no extra-marital sexual relations between men and women? Sure you want to reduce the occurance, but don't you think it is up to each indivdual to decide for themselves what they want to do?"
One of the Islamic teachings is that "There is no compulsion in religion." This means that you cannot force an individual to believe something or do something which the individual does not prefer. The right to dress modestly is in the hands of each woman.

Stacey:
There are areas in the world where women are not allowed to vote, get an education, etc., however that has nothing to do with Islam. The first verses which were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) by God (Allah) (Glorified is He) states the importance of gaining an education for men and women. If there are people in the world who do not act according to the commandment of God, then they are being disobedient. Again, I would just like to state that the Quran is perfect and God is perfect but individuals are not. In regards to modesty, the Bible itself asks women to be modest in their attire. The responsibility of being morally upright lies on both the man and the woman. As I have already stated, men should control their illicit lusts and desires and should lower their gaze. However, women should not dress in a way which contributes to creating these lusts and possibly creating an undesirable situation for the woman. However, in no way is rape or sexual assault, etc. an acceptable act regardless of what the woman decides to wear. The Islamic teachings regarding modesty do not completely eliminate evil acts since individuals will in the end do what their souls are directed towards, however they are there as a protection. An analogy to this is the usage of condoms or other contraceptives. These contraceptives are not 100% fool-proof, but they provide a higher level of protection against unplanned pregnancies. Without the contraceptive there would be many unwanted pregnancies and in the case of promiscious individuals, greater levels of contraction of STD's.

Stacey:
I apologize if it seems that way. I will look at your questions above and try my best to respond.

Ashfaq,

One thing I have noticed in your postings is that you will respond the other men who post comments to you, but you will not respond to me, a woman. You have responded directly to many others who addressed your perspective, but you ignore me. Why is that? You did not answer my questions to you. I think you and I started a major discussion here and yet you are not willing to acknowledge me.

James:
Please read my previous posts. As I have already mentioned, each individual is responsible for his/her own action. Also, to be honest with you, there are more individuals who would be considered "dogs" in the American and Western societies then there are in the Muslim majority societies. Also, I have noticed that musicians admire and promote the image of man as "dogs" as if it's an admirable quality for individuals to have. We respect our women, not use them to sell products.

Dear Asfaq,

I wipe my butt with the Quran. Its about the most intelligent use of it.

If you Muslim boys weren't dogs, then your women wouldn't have to cover so much meat, wouldn't they? But then, Allah forbid a Muslim man hold himself accountable for his actions, he's only following Allah's will, or whatever halfwit, brainless excuse you dogs use these days.

To all the relgious zealots constantly quoting some prophet, whether it be jesus, muhammad or moses, please GET A LIFE and start doing your own thinking. This blog was started to talk about a real issue in the world: the repeated and constant abuse of children.

When we are old, vulnerable and decrepid, the same children being abused today won't be inclined to take care of their elders, and who could blame them. Will they turn to religion to understand the meaning of their abuse? I'm guessing probably not. Whether their abuser was a catholic priest, their uncle or their father, chances are they will be angry and damaged for life, and definitely not inclined to turn to their parents' faith. After all their parents' faith in whatever God didn't protect them from abuse early in life, so why should it be a source of comfort now?

We are all free to practice whatever religion we want and we are all free to claim aloud how devout we are; just go do it in some other blog devoted to religion.

Ashfaq-
You say America is responsible for most of the killing in the world. Well, at least we don't follow the Muslim example of car bombs in market places that intentionally target and kill women and children. Face the facts, yours is a failed society and religion. If not for oil, the middle east would be a even nastier pest hole than it is now.

Those people who consider themselves to be Christian should ponder about Mary, the mother of Jesus (Peace be upon them both). She was a chaste woman and one of the best women in all of mankind. Women should try to take her as a role model instead of the Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton, etc. role models whose corruption is being brainwashed into the young minds.

Questions for Chritians: If you were born in Iran would you still believe in Christ as your savior? Questions for Muslims: If you were born in Chile would you still believe in the Koran? Finally this topic orginally was on girls in the Philippinese, funny how it now seems to be a topic of relion

Good Morning all,

I left here yesterday feeling that MY reaction to strong statements had been twisted into odd contexts and actually felt abused for disputing the idea of covering oneself like a good Muslim or not being American was the cure to the exploitation of females in the world. I only wanted to say that that wasn't exactly the best attitude, but in turn had to spend the next hour defending my personal beliefs without ever having truly revealed them to a tyrant who turned the entire arguement into a religious battle, spouting his views on what I should believe. Several folk jumped in to correct him over the course of the conversation, but I actually felt saddened and angered by this stranger. In turn I see that arguement never really dissipated until everyone went to bed. In turn as well, Ashfaq was attacked for his beliefs as a Muslim and essentially blamed for the Muslim violence in the world. It is scary to me that an essential discussion on how to turn around the sexualization and exploitation of young girls was turned into an attack between two religions. I feel partially responsible as had I never voiced my objections to Ashfaq's solution, maybe the issue would never have blown up around us. I appologize to all the interested parties who came here to have an intelligent discussion that could loan growth to our child-rearing skills in the world, not just parts of it. At the same time, I do not appreciate being attacked in the manner that I was for applying the possibility that Muslims weren't the only one's who taught their children well. I actually reacted with unnatural spite.

I am expecting my first child , girl or boy, in July and my greatest fear from the day I found out I was pregnant was that I would not be more open minded and able to grow with my child in the society they were entering, while trying to maintain some of the values I was given in the society I entered. Having been misunderstood in such a huge manner yesterday has given me more reason to question my ability to teach my child without sounding prejudiced or being misunderstood. I am making a promise today to myself and my unborn child to listen first and then be concise. I am sure I will not always have the right answers, but I want them to be as clear as possible however wrong they may be. I will also teach my child to listened carefully and not jump to conclusion based on their own beliefs. As far as self respect is concerned, my child will have it if it kills me. That, more than any other gift will guide them peacefully through life. Self respect creates respect for others. If we are not all the same, it is okay.

Brit:

You are right in that public schools need to enforce dress codes. My children go to a private school with a strict uniform code. Even then, you see them try to push the envelope. But for the most part, the fact that there is a length the skirts HAVE to be--if they're kneeling, the skirt bottoms have to touch the floor, a certain shirt that's required, heels can only be so high, no makeup, etc. Even there "dress down" or "dress up" days require a high level of decorum.

Most of the parents at my kids' school are pretty much the same as me and restrict the overtly sexy clothing that's too old. But some dress overtly sexy themselves, and you can see the hoochy-mama look in their daughters outside of school.

Our public schools in this area are worse, though. I taught Saturday morning religious ed for a few years for kids in our parish who went to public schools. I'll never forget 2 11 year old girls who showed up one morning in a blizzard dressed for a "cheerleading banquet" they were going to that night. Their attire: skimpy,sheer, tight tops--one was a strappy halter; micro-mini skirts--if the put their arms down against their bodies, hands down open palm, their finger tips well went past the line of the skirts; super high heel backless shoes. Remember, these girls were 11, 12 at the most. I commented that there skirts were too short--even had them do their own schools supposed (but not enforced) decency test (the finger tip test described above) and asked them what made them think this was appropriate for here. The director of the program commented on their lack of clothing for the weather. Another teacher commented that these girls were going to be cold. A bunch of their peers even made comments about their clothing. The girls laughed at all of us, but then went to their mothers, sobbing that everyone "picked on them." The mother came in and threatened the director for allowing a "hostile" environment and letting the girls be "picked on" for what they wore. Who's she going to blame when they get picked up by a pedophile, or end up pregnant or with VD at a young age? She thought they were dressed like "young ladies"--ladies of the night maybe.

Ashfaq-
Couldn't let the comment about americans doing most of the killing in the world.

You need to get your facts right before spouting off about how most of the murders in the world are committed by Americans. Have you heard of Cambodia (the Khmer Rouge), Stalin (killed millions of Russians), Darfur (the janjaweed-currently killing thousands), Nazi Germany (6 million Jews, Catholics, Gypsies and Communists killed). Then there is also Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of Congo, China under Mao, Argentina and the disappeared,etc. ,etc. The list of genocides/murders goes on and on and is not limited to Westerners or Christians(the Janjaweed and most of its victims are Muslim). If you choose to ignore or deny that violence is a universal problem and that at least in the US we have a right to speak out against the wrongs we think our government is committing you are clearly delusional. Or at least willfully ignorant.

So, who wants to taste a 15 year old?

the christian religion is the only true religion. to believe in Jesus christ as the son of God is the only true way. Peoples does a lot of evil things in the name of christianity but christianity does not teach that. Jesus taught that we should love one another as he have love for us. love goes way beyond race, creed, color, cultural, are any thing one can name. many waters cannot quence love. neither can the floods drowm them. Just think what a beautiful world we would live in. if we only had love for each other! who of you remember Ronny King? do one know what he said? can we all just get along? think about it. WHY CAN;T WE?

Can't we all just get along?

Carly, Agnostic, and mom of 2 in my opinion are the only ones who have been paying attention. The issue is are our children over-sexualized? You bet they are. Why is this the case? Because we as a society eat it up. If we stopped watching the gossip shows and stopped following the latest fad diet and stopped caring what the stars were wearing (and paying way too much for) we might just get a clue about what it means to not just be a good american but also what it means to be a good person. We don't need a religion or a government to tell us how to be a good person. All it takes is a little common sense. Raise your kids to be respectful and responsible. Practice what you preach. Don't hold others to a higher standard that you hold yourself. Tell your kids that they are smart, talented, etc. and then lead by example. Tell your sons that girls most attractive feature is above their collar. Tell your daughters that augmenting their intelligence will get them further than augmenting their breasts. Teach your children that health and happiness are not bought at a store. Be open with your kids about every subject and don't talk down to them, they're smarter than you think. Remember what it was like to be a kid and you wished adults would just give you the straight-up answer instead of the Sesame Street version. I don't think there is any place for suggestive billboards. Advertisers just give us what they think we want and it is usually geared toward the lowest common denominator. If you don't like how something is advertised...don't buy it, they will eventually get the hint.

Appalled, part of the problem is that our children have no disapline. What are the Teachers going to do give them detension, in my day when you got in trouble at school, you were going to get your butt blistered when you got home. Now parent's talk to them or say no my little angel, he or she wouldn't do that. People complain about our youth and what they are coming to but no one wants to reconize that children had more morals, and respect when they had conaquinzes (i know didn't spell right) and knew that they were going to be punished.

Thank you for your comments Ashfaq. Too bad some Americans can't appreciate another point of view written in a clear and logical manner. This is one example of why America is no longer a great country. Our government and many citizens prefer violence to words.

WE HAVE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN IN THE BEGINING.ADAM,EVE.WHOM GOD UNITED IN MARRIAGE.A MAN,AND A WOMAN.ONE MALE MARRIED TO A FEMALE.GOD VISITED THESE TWO IN THE GARDEN.THUS WE HAVE GOD..ADAM...EVE...REPRESENTING THE CHURCH...OF GOD...NO DENOMINATION EXISED.ALL OTHERS WERE MAN MADE.MAMED AFTER A MAN OPERATED BY MAN.THESE TWO SINNED.AND GOD FOUND THEM BOTH NAKED IN THE GARDEN . NAKED IS A SYMBOL OF SIN. THEY PUT FIG LEAVES ON THEIRSELVES TO CLOTH ..TEMPT TO HIDE THERE NAKEDNESS.(SIN)(NUDITY). GOD PROPERLY CLOTHED THEM WITH TWO COATS OF CLOTHING.TO SATISFY HIMSELF THAT THEY WERE THEN MODEST...BUT YET IN SIN ,HE CASTED THEM OUT OF THE GARDEN.ADAM AND EVE HAD TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS.BEFORE GOD WOULD PARDEN THEM.AND ALSO HAD TO REMAIN CLOTHED IN MODEST APPAREL.AS APOSTLE PAUL ALSO STATES IN THE NEW TEST. GOD REQUIRES ALL OF US TO BE BRETHERN..AT PEACE WITH ONE ANOTHER.(SECOND GREATEST COMM.LOVE THY NEIGHBOR)ALL OF US ARE NEIGHBORS ONE TO ANOTHER.EVERY NATION...NATIONALITY..RACE. GOD IS LOVE.

1. Satanic Verses is fiction

2. Honor killings (stonings) are not a part of the Islamic faith but more related to the tribal ethic.

3. I am a white American, but I have spend time in Hyderabad. While there I wore a salwar suit (loose clothing covering my but and breasts). I honestly didn't feel oppressed wearing this clothing.

4. Despite the fact that I wore concealing clothing in Hyderabad, I still got molested on the bus.

The moral of the story is that no matter what young women wear, heterosexual men want to sleep with them. Regardless of religious affilation men need to be taught to respect women and their bodies.

Many Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist men rape, abuse, sexualize, and exploit women. Arguing about which religions is better will NOT make women safer.

hey where did everyone go?

Well, extremes, extremes. extremes are ok as long as moderation is present and is dealt on a case by case basis. If I sound extreme, I'm really not.

Alot of women might say, a girl has a right to explore her sexuality, they are half right. We are all taxpayers, and if a girl explores her sexuality to the point where she is pregnant or has venerial disease, not all the time does mommy and daddy's insurance plan take of it. Actually, quite often the teen will try to keep it away from thier parents and go to a clinic. There are publicly and privately funded clinics for people who don't have the needs. Now when this happens, they are costing taxpayer money or privately funded money that could help someone with greater problems. And if mom and dad take care of it, VD issue might not come back, however if there is a pregnancy, the child rarely is able to handle complete resonsibility for a few years and that is if she wants to be responible. This thing holds back families and is a rake to the childs social skills as she will not learn how to deal with peers as well as others. Her maturity has halted at 75 to 80% while she is a child raising a child and cannot advance herself while teaching her 80% to her child. Whether your religious or not you can agree; the laws of this country are set at 18 for most and that is for a reason to limit non mature individuals from doing things that take 100% responsibility. They are called children for a reason, they cannot take 100% responsibility. Granted some people arrive early at maturity, they still have to wait until they are certified 18 years.

As for religeon, just about all the old world religeions require female modesty. But also require they males to exert discretion. In some relieons there is no modesty and all is to blame the male when personal sexual control is lost, other religeons are all modesty and don't require thier males to exert sexual contol and in the end the females are made out to be blamed.
There has to be a moderation so societies are not one sided.

In the end for religeon, any maintained extreme usually leads to sin. Extremes hurt others either physically, religiously or emotionally. Moderation is still the key.

Discipline must be carried in one hand, understanding in the other.

I live in a large city, and I was just talking to a friend who works in the school system, and these kids are so corrupted that they have sex in the hall between classes. And the teachers don't do anything!!! what is are our children coming to?

What happened to Ashfaq. I miss his posts.

thanks 'Mom of 2' for making the salient point! It WAS an interesting article to read, a bit worrisome as I do have girls "of that age" (still in high school). It works in Vegas too, but I think most of us here in the USA have grown beyond that kind of childish, emotionless 'visualization' way of thinking.

10 years ago my then less than teenage girl wanted to be a spice girl -- now she thinks most of our pop-stars dress "like skanks" and has no desire to be like any of them. Our High Shools have done a good job of educating today's teens so that my kids (at least) readily see how over-sexualization & exploitation of either sex too often ends up with corrolary issues -- drugs and the desire to think less of or be cruel to others. Of course, watching the Brittany melt-down didn't hurt -- it's kind of an object lesson that being sexy never made anyone happy for long. Here's hoping the Phillipines and other countries catch up soon!

what is the subject we are discussing again?

Moge Cie wydupczyc??

So sorry...I got caught up in the OTHER debate.
I, for one, see this as a societal problem with all the thin, young models and THEIR fashion...society rewards these women because the SELL things...clothing, perfume...and every person, no matter what their age, does want to be accepted and thought of as "cool" for lack of a better word.I think that we, as parents, have to take the first step at home. We need to try and convince our children it is okay to be who you are. A daunting task, no doubt.But responsibility DOES fall on the media for expounding the fact that sex sells....always has, always will. No concrete solution, I'm afraid.

Mom of 2

I have to agree with quite a bit of what you have said, and I applaud you for you eloquence in getting your thoughts across. But you have to admit that peers do have leave an impression on children, it is really hard to be a young girl who is not dressing the same way as all of the girls at school, so while it is the parents job to raise these young girls to be ladies, sometimes that is easier said then done. But now if all public schools would go to uniforms, we might be headed in the right direction.

OK...*sheesh*....until someone can PROVE that the Quoran, Bible, etc. were written by "Allah"..."God"..et.al., don't profess your Ideals to be the truth. These documents, books, scrolls, whatever, were written by HUMAN BEINGS trying to convey a decent way of life and living.Religion uses fear to control a large population. It also, so far, is the only way people can comprehend our existence.Let's get out of the BOX and realize that everyones personal beliefs are just that...personal...and we ALL have a right to them.

PERCEPTION is reality for all.

First I want to say that yes I am an American and will always love my country and support our young men and women in the military.
Second, I believe in God and Jesus Christ, and I believe that we have had fanatics in most of the religions from time to time. We should not blame the religions, but the men that pervert them, and use it as an excuse to do what they want.
Now back to the topic at hand, yes I believe that the media exploits young girls of all cultures, making them think that they need to be a size 2 and have everything hanging out. There is nothing any one individual can do about this. We need to band together and let the media, fashion industry know that young girls should not be dressing like this. And while it is up to the parents to put limits on the children, how do you know that they will not change wants they are out of the house. I know that when I was young and not allowed to wear makeup, as soon as I was out of the house it went on.
But as a woman who tended bar for quite a few years, I will let you know that if I wanted be able to make my bills the skimpier my blouse or the shorter my shorts, the better the tips. You have to decide which is more important keeping a roof over your families head or showing a little skin.

I didn't know this was "pick on the Muslim guy" day. I thought we were discussing the oversexualization of women. Do you think we can do that without resorting to namecalling and accusations? This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not an attack on each other.

Oh, one more thought--going back to the original Glenda Gloria article. She mentioned about the sexualized dance moves young girls perform for their godparents. Many times, it's the parents themselves that encourage this by thinking that their kids acting like mini-adults is "cute". I've seen it in my own family with a young female relative whose idea of dancing was to wiggle her bum in everyone's face--ala her "favorite" singers. Her parents thought it was "cute and sassy". I thought it was repulsive. This child didn't dress in overly tight clothing, or wear anything risque, but I know other parents who think their daughters dressing like a Paris wanna-be is "adorable." There is nothing "adorable" about it.

We haven't even begun to jump on the "beauty" pageant circuit yet. . can anyone say Jon Bonet? Sure. I knew you could.

I think it's interesting that so many women around the world are trying to get pale skin, while us white American women spend $$$ at a tanning bed even at the risk of skin cancer! Religion aside, the world is a funny place.

And to the people fighting it out on this space: People treat you the way you tell them to via your clothing, mannerisms and speech. A confident well dressed woman can go far. We do make up 50% of the population so give us a break already!

Ashfaq: How about spreading the "word of Allah" in Saudi Arabia; the place where women are not allowed to drive; Women cannot be admitted to a hospital, examined by a doctor, travel abroad or leave the house without the express permission and/or company of an immediate male relative; women make up just 5% of the workforce in Saudi Arabia; The testimony of a woman in court is not regarded as fact but as presumption; Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads in large cities.

And re: Islam, I wonder how you feel about non-Muslims; are they in any way inferior? Because your claims sure make it seem as if you have some kind of birthright over God (maybe She's a Goddess ;-)
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

Hm. Let's see if this post can get back to the original topic at hand.

Yes, our young girls are oversexualized. Take at look at who gets "worshipped" in the media. Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, Lindsay Lohan--scantily clad women who reveal their panties (or lack there of) for public consumption. How does the media reward them? Constant coverage, which just builds their unearned "creds". Puh-lease. Let's look at the Anna Nicole Smith fiasco--besides breast implants, did she do anything in her short tragic life to earn such press? While mature adults see this as a car wreck that you want to turn away from but can't--our children, girls in particular, learn this is how you get attention, which in our world equals money which equals power. And that's it. . these girls are taught from a young age that sex equals power. Never realizing that those who are mature enough to recognize this is not the case are mocking these barely dressed objects.

The antidote for this disease: Teaching ALL of our youth about respect for themselves and each other, setting limits in terms of clothing (in my house, the rule is when you're 21 and living on your own, you can decide--and by then, if you want to dress like a tramp, I didn't do a good job), rewarding appropriate behavior and nipping inappropriate behavior in the bud--that includes overly provocative (read: pole-dancing, lap dancing) moves--even if it means a run-in with your child's dance teacher or cheerleading coach, and making sure, if you don't restrict your media viewing (this includes TV, movies, magazines, music), to be clear to your child what you believe is appropriate or inappropriate and why. My 10 year old daughter can tell you when she sees Paris Hilton on TV that "she really dresses inappropriately. That's not attractive." They'll get it. Trust me.

One last thought to our Muslim friend--yes, your sisters may be educated and doing well--you said you live in the US, and their opportunities here reflect that. Not all Muslim woman have that luxury. Most are oppressed in other countries and will continue to be as long as radical islamic groups are allowed to rule.

What a sad waste of collective energy. If only the word "religion" were eradicated from dictionaries! Glenda Gloria's comments were totally taken out of context. ANY exploitation of children is sickening. No society around the globe has totally clean hands, nor does any religion. Religion is about power, wealth and control over masses. Taken individually people are usually pretty reasonable and intelligent. Put them in a group and the collective IQ drops to levels consistent with serious mental illness.

Too many atrocities have been committed in the name of some mythical being. The mythical being doesn't care. The reason the mythical being doesn't care is that you have to exist to give a crap. Religion is an insult to human intelligence. Just look around, everybody dies. Get a grip: there is no hell, no heaven, no glorious death. All we have are carbon compounds and a hell of a lot of nothing around our planet. Children are precious and it doesn't take a religion to teach that to us. All it takes is common sense.

I have many friends, representing every religion under the sun. We get along for one reason only: we don't talk about religion. Our friendship is more important than that.

Religion is fiction, stop wasting your time and everybody else's. If you want to read fiction, go ahead and read the bible, the thora, the quran. They are all great works of fiction, very imaginative, very creative.

If it is common sense you are looking for, you won't find it in any scripture. The only thing religion is good for is entertaining documentaries revolving around archeology. That's right, religion is archaic. I'm sorry, I forgot about several other things religion is good for: great architecture (Mosqs, Churches, Temples), great music, great art.

How sad that all (or almost all) of you have allowed yourselves to be diverted from the real issue by talk of religion, politics, hatred, and ignorance. The intent of this article is to inspire a discussion regarding our CHILDREN....they are being OVER SEXUALIZED. Does this not send any warning signals to you people? How horrific that you can not tear yourselves from your inabilities to get along, even long enough to work together for the sake of our future, for the young women and men of this world. But please, don't let me interrupt your petty bickering...

Some of you need to go back to school. Take Theology, American History, and Cultural Anthropology. Those of you claiming to be Christian seem to have some pretty skewed ideas that really do not fit with the teachings of Jesus.

Study the Constitution. We have freedom of religion in this country. The US was *not* founded on Christianity - do some research. It is not appropriate for any American to tell any other individual that he or she is not a *real* American simply because he or she practices a different religion. That's disgusting, and it's as un-American as it gets. You claim you live in the best country on earth, yet you have no idea about its history or its ideals. No wonder the rest of the world thinks you're wacky.

Ashfaq replied to the actual blog; the majority of the other posters replied to attack his religion or his opinion. That's unfair. He didn't threaten or berate anyone. He is free to express his opinion, especially when he does so in the manner that he chose. It doesn't matter whether you approve of his religion or not. He's free to practice whatever religion he chooses. It doesn't make you right and him wrong. If you don't like it, don't practice the religion! There! Solved!

Familiarize yourselves with the term "cultural relativism." Just because your culture has a certain set of values, it doesn't make them "right" and it doesn't make them applicable to every other culture on earth. That should be apparent: The U.S. tried to set up Iraq in the image of itself without any consideration to the multitude of cultures that were already coexisting in that area. Things don't appear to be going well. If that's too hard for you to grasp, think of the Disney movie Jungle 2 Jungle. Mimisiku didn't have a very easy time functioning in NYC, did he? No, he preferred his own culture. You can't expect everyone around the world to want your way of life, and you cannot force it upon them.

Oh, and disagreeing with your government's actions doesn't make you less of an American, either. That's just dumb. If no one disagreed or spoke up, would we still be keeping Japanese Americans in camps? Would women be allowed to vote, drive, work, and be Supreme Court justices? Would McCarthyism still be running rampant? The ability to disagree is what America is based upon. It was founded by dissidents, after all.

Now, go back to school and start behaving like responsible adults before you raise a new generation of bigots.

This problem is addressed correctly by the Christian society. God Almighty (Jesus Christ) commands the womenfolk in the Bible to cover themselves modestly and not to display their beauty except to their husbands. Practicing Christian women cover their bosoms and their rear ends and in addition they wear loose-fitting clothes so as to avoid the unwanted sexual interest of other men. If the society of the Phillipines and the rest of the world would understand that the religion of Jesus Christ is the best system for mankind, then the exploitation of women would be reduced drastically and they will be viewed with respect instead of as sexual objects.

Interesting.
Only Muslims go to heaven.
Only Christians go to heaven.

I, personally, would not want to go to hell. Since I already must spend this life-time with arrogant Christians, I wouldn't want to go to hell, and then have to spend an eternity with them there, too!

Having said that, does anyone know why the Taliban hand-book suggests that jihaists not bring young boys into their homes, or to the battle field? Pedastry (ass-rape of young boys) is rampant in muslim-controlled societies where men have culturally limited access to females.

The problem isn't religion, but rather religious people foisting their beliefs on others.

Author of the blog does try to say that being catholic means being conservative, I think religion part should have been left out of this discussion instead using just conservative society is perfect.

I am a religious person myself, but I also strongly believe it is also personal to oneself.

I would just like to say that the question did not ask for religion to be brought into it. Not everyone follows the same religion so u have to rule it out when stating your opinion in this situation. Clothing can be considered completely secular. I live on a Caribbean island and for us, wearing short clothing isn't just a matter of a fashion statement or us proclaiming our desire for attention.....it's really hot!! But, it has to be said, the ages of girls that are blatantly sexual is getting lower. What I think: If you're too young to handle sex and all it means, you're too young to be sexual. Parents should remember this.

Hey Muqtada, just wanted to say hi, never talked to a walking dead man before.

Ok so I lied, I can't stay away, what is the weather like in Iran tall boy?

Actually, very dry and sandy. I hear it is going to rain in Philly tonight, though.
Death to the Infidels!

do I smell "tuna" ?

Ok guys, stop all the bickering. I feel sorry for Glenda Gloria. I'm sure she didn't want this to turn into a religion/terrorist argument. There's other blogs to speak about such things.

In other words, I think all women are oversexualized...we do it to ourselves. Some are desperate for attention, so they dress in clothes made of dental floss. Others see it happening and don't do anything about it. Point is, if we don't like it, then protect yourself from it. Don't look at the billboard if you don't like it. Don't watch the news if you don't like it. Or if you want, do something about it. We complain so much as to how much we hate some of the things of this world, and less of doing something to change it.

and just how bad do those muslim girls "stink" under that burka ? That would is also a way to avoid male "attention".

THE THING I LOVE ABOUT THE MUSLIM RELIGION IS WHEN A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL GETS RAPED, THE FAMILY WILL STONE HER TO DEATH BECAUSE SHE HAS DISHONORED THE FAMILY. THING IS, IT IS USUALLY AN UNCLE WHO RAPED THE GIRL. AND WHAT'YA KNOW! THERE'S UNCLE ABDUL THROWING ROCKS AT THE GIRL HE RAPED! WHAT A WONDERFUL SOCIETY YOU HAVE BUILT FOR YOURSELF. ENJOY YOUR RELIGION ISLAM AND TRY READING THE SATANIC VERSES. EVEN MOHAMMAD ADMITTED ON HIS DEATH BED HE WAS FULL OF CRAP...

I do not exist. Now stop all that fighting down there.

Chris, I have tollerence for all religons. I don't care if you believe that god is a st. barnard or a parrot or jesus or muhammad (sp there fed up), the problem is muslims want people of all religons other than theirs, dead. That's tollerence??? What makes Americans, americans, is that regardless of your faith, if you see someone killing someone, you will turn them in. Muslims will not! They will turn their head and let them be killed, becuase they are not muslims first, period. The proved it in England just a few months ago. And the vast majority of muslims siad they were muslims first, and british second. That's the problem.

I would rather have rampant sex on every street corner in America than have to worry about someone blowing themselves up and killing my children.

Ashfaq, I invite you to come to America. Go visit any town in any state. Try to hit a few. You will be very surprised at what you see. America is not the way you have been taught.

Christianity was not founded by someone who did not accept unbelievers. Jesus did not accept only those who followed Him or believed in Him. Christianity is to follow Christ. It was the Catholic Church and later the Church of England (protestant) that brought mayhem and death to everyones doorstep. Not Christianity. Don't get those two mixed up.

As for Islam, there are moderate Islamics that teach exceptance, tolerance, forgiveness and equality. So lets not lump them in here either.

Those folks who are stuck in the Old Testament or stuck in the history of the Quran and are living the 'eye for an eye' have not progressed to the true meaning of the words in there related faith and are the ones bringing death to everyone's doorstep.

First of all, I'm an American:

God doesn't strike people down with a lightning bolt on people who sin. We'd all be dead if that was the case, then what would've been the reason for creating us? Why do you think God hates people, he doesn't hate gays like some "christians" state, he doesn't hate anyone. So why would he hate you, even if you deny him, he will never "smite you now" while you're alive and He won't be the one smiting you on judgement day either...whoever doesn't/does believe, decides his own fate.

God is not a God of wrath, he loves. Why have you imagined him to be so cruel?

Everyone has there opinion...you've stated yours, I've stated mine. You can decide who you want to be.

Back to work... peace out.

Well said Chris.

wow you are all so biased toward one another and just promote sterotypes in comments. I hope I never raise my kids and hear them say any of this crap. The future will hold for them tolerance of Christians, Muslims, Jews and any one else.
One day i hope some of you will see that.

I'm an American:
Cheers to you-I loved the last post!

All of you self-righteous souls - Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever - are the problem. If God exists and can cry, I'm sure he sheds tears over your holier-than-thou attitude.

SAD:
As Muslims we are required to use rationale to explain almost everything. We are not asked by God (Allah) to practice blindly. Although times change, people do not. Nothing has changed within humans biologically or chemically or physically. We are still the same human beings that we were 1428 years ago. We still have the same desires, needs, wants. Some things have changed such as the availability of mass communication, driving of cars versus camels, etc., technology has changed. But everything else remains. The human relationships have not changed. People conducted business then and they conduct business now. So the same rules apply today in business dealings today which applied 1428 years ago. The Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) spoke about every issue in such detail. We just have to apply this message in the context of today's more technologically advanced world.

Real Christian, more of the problem. If he's all that, then he'll smite me now,,,,,, hmmmm,,, still here.

You ALL are kindling wood for the big fire God will be building soon. Profess your faith in Jesus Christ as the only way through which you will find the Father or you will feel His everlasting, eternal wrath. All kidding aside...

Fed up, did I spell bologna right? lol

The only name I called was Ashfaq, when I called him a terrorist, and he is. You can read it in his dialog, he is a terrorist. They want us dead!!!! Don't you Ashfaq. And if kills you to have to put up with our denouncing (SP?) of your religon, doesn't it. Just as it upsets christians when we do. Religon is the problem!!! Not the answer. But if anyone thinks that any muslim in their heart hates us, then you are wrong. And if they don't they will most certainly stand by while their brother cuts our throat.

I gotta get back to work and make some good old capitalist american green backs so I can support the war!!!

Brandy--
Finally! Thanks for bringing it back around to the point!

I believe your sincerity; however, I feel that to believe that the final word on mankind's relationship with god was given 1400 years ago is a problem. God or Allah wants mankind to be continually progreesing and developing both intellectually and in spiritual awareness. He does not want a continuum of repressive rules which are adhered to only because some religion says so. He wants true understanding.

Workder, of course he apeared 3 times, HE WASN'T DEAD!

Ashfaq, EVERY religon believes their's is the only god, give me a break.

This is the perfect example, Worker and Ashfaq, of why this world will never get along as long as you people believe in some trumped up balogna!!!

Author;

Get off your conservative high horse. This isn't the dark ages anymore and yes, even women can express themselves. Even if it is through skimpy clothes. I just hope that these women realize that they and their bodies will be taken full advantage of by advertisers and horny males. Thank you capitalism.

Its time that people started embracing sexuality instead of hiding from it. If you dislike it so much, go join a nunnery.

The superficial and the whimsical will embrace their own ideas in kind. Why don't people understand that in such large populations you have a lot of dumb, impressionable people and a few smart think-on-their-own types? Do your own thing and let others do theirs. Sheep will always follow a shepherd whether it be a diety or fashion advertising.

I'm an American:
Of course you have a right to voice your opinion, that was the main point of my post. But to maliciously attack someone for voicing theirs seems to defeat the purpose. If you can't state your case without stooping to name calling, your argument loses credibility.

Oh, and the comment about me sounding like an English Teacher... Intelligence is spelled with 2 L's. Good one.

Did I miss the point of this article or what?

Are Filipino girls overly sexualized? Are American girls overly sexualized? Regardless of our location, does it matter if we allow the media to teach our 5 year olds, our 10 year olds that their goal is to be a fair and sexy "woman".

This isn't about their religion and what God they believe in, but rather in the ways that we the adults are promoting unhealthy images to our young girls. A ten-year old should not be "sexy". She is not a "woman" either, but we aren't exactly promoting childhood for the sake of itself. I have been to a Filipino Church here in America, and confess that I found myself shocked when the children put on a Christmas pagent that had them dancing with all the moves of Britney Spears while their families applauded their efforts. And this pursuit of many things American - if you are born to be an ethnic woman of any color, shouldn't you celebrate this? Why should you bleach your skin and dye your hair so you appear to be a fair-skinned light-haired Americana? Why aren't we policing the media - in all its forms - to present our daughters healthy images of what they should be, and not sexualized images of what some adult women have chosen to be.

My objective in staying in this country is to educate people and invite people to the message of Islam and try to be as best a human being as I can be. To teach that there is no god worthy of worship except God and that Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is the final Prophet and Messenger of God. To bring people out of the darkness into light. To enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil.

I'm an American:

Jesus appeared to his disciples several times after he was risen.

The Bible states in John 21:14:

14This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

"Just to let you know in this American society people are married and they have mutiple sexual partners on the side. In Islam, we marry our women, not use them simply for sexual relations."

Ashfaq makes a powerful statement, and VERY TRUE! It's so sad that in America all the men need to cheat and women cheat and all these sad tendencies lead to divorce. The divorce rate is 52%!!! Then the children are screwed up...truly sad.
Please let Ashfaq speak as he hasn't insulted anybody but your closed minded people are insulting him and his religion. You would be better served by checking in on your spouse to make sure he/she isn't "staying late at the office to do work."

Ashfaq -

One simple question - why do you stay in this country? As bad as we seem to be in your eyes, could you be exploiting our freedom for your own emds?

No one is saying let's ban women. Women are a very important part of society. Let's have an example of two women. One woman who is wearing loose fitting jeans, a scarf which covers her head and her bosom, and long sleeve shirt extending down past her rear end and one woman who is wearing a short skirt, and a tank top with bosoms overflowing. Which of these women will get the most unwanted attention? Which of these women will most likely be sexually harrassed, objectified, degraded and disrespected? I hope it's easy to see.

Ladies,
If you think a man only cares about your mind and not your body when you wear tight skimpy clothes you are lying to yourself. Men are men, we have one thing on our mind when we see babes without much clothing on.
Please stop lying to yourself. Thanks.

I'M AN AMERICAN:
Give me a break. Go look at some of the papers formulated by the government for decades now. You'll see that the chief strategic objective of the US government is to steal oil from other nations regardless of the cost in human life. Actually, look at the entire history of this continent and you will see that throughout the history, the government has murdered and robbed to get where it is today. From the earliest day of the colonialization of this continent the government and those supporting it have butchered the native people just so they can accumulate the material wealth. This material wealth is so insignificant that on the Day of Judgment these same people will try if they could to barter the entire world and its contents so that they could save themselves from the eternal punishment of the hellfire.

Hello ASHFAQ,

Punishing women because men cannot control their urges seems backward - that is why "the West" (not that I can speak for all) seems to find Islamists so dangerously annoying.

I don't need to see a scantily clad woman in order to commit an offense against her.

As the one true God and his Son, Jesus, said - if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart you have sinned (I paraphrase here).

It is unfortunate that women degrade themselves and copy the Hollywood look or the Amsterdam look or the Gay(i.e. carefree) Paree look and think they will attract a worthwhile man. However - to ban women and cover them with horse blankets is ridiculous.

We've found Jesus's tomb, christanity is a myth, and we will soon prove Mohammed was just a clown as well. Someday we will give up on religon and THEN, and only then, will we live in peace. Open your eyes people, religon is the demise of mankind.

What a waste of space... Can nobody really discuss this issue at hand?

Ashfaq:
Lets lay a hypothetical scenario:

In 2010 - US is at war with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia nuked 10 million US citisens in NYC and they are annoucing they have nuclear weapons aimed at LA and DC in Mecca. The only way US could guarantee safety is to nuke mecca. Would you support USA at that point or want US citizens to die so that mecca can be protected??

The answer would clearly law out if you are an AMERICAN or a traitor. Period.

WORKER:

Go look at the language in which the word of Jesus (Peace be upon him) was revealed and you will find that there is a commonality with the word ALLAH in that language. Allah in Arabic translates to The One and Only God in English. "Allah, He is One. The Eternal, The Absolute. He Begets not, nor is He begotten and there is none other like Him." (Surah Al-Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verses 1-4)

I quote Ashfaq "Why don't you turn in the vicious murderers who destroyed so many lives in Iraq just so they could suck the oil out of the ground to feed their greedy capitalist machine?

You see, Ashfaw IS a terrorist at heart, all muslims are becuase they help fellow muslims. If the people of Iraq would quit harboring terrorist and turn them in, we would leave. But they wont.

And Fed up, while I respect Ashfaq's RIGHT as an american to voice his opinion, I do not agree with him, and I have RIGHT as a born american that has served in the army, to voice my opinion, he is a terrorist indirect. Oh, and spelling is a measure of inteligence, I think not, as if spelling is my main concern. Give me a break. You sound like my high school english teacher.

Religion is man made aka: Baptist, Catholic, Penicostal, etc. etc....

Christianity is the study of Christ. Christ made.

We keep dividing ourselves with these rules and regulations, when we should just all look to the Bible and live according to that. Our world would be a better place in my opinion.

worker - please take the time to educate yourself before you post comments. Alla (incorrectly spelled) is the Muslim version of god - not a man. The man is Mohammed, who is believed to be the prophet of Allah. The problem with all these rants is that people don't take the time to understand what they are speaking about before opening their mouths.

Has anybody bothered to reread the original blog to remind you of what you're commenting about? While I may not agree with Ashfaq's views or beliefs, I certainly respect his right to voice them in an open forum. Grow up people, most of you that are spewing all this nonsense can't even spell. How embarassing.

First of all, Christians worship a risen man, Jesus Christ,

Muslims worship Alla, a man who died and didn't rise again.

There's a difference. I think I'll stick to the One who longs to be with everyone; poor, sick, prostitute, preacher, muslim, satanist, Amish, Jew.God loves everyone no matter of our sins.That's why he wants us to be with his Son, Jesus Christ, the only way to the only true God. He changed my life and I'm now trying to be more like Christ. I'm not perfect, if I was, what would be the point of Jesus Christ?

You can have your opinions, I'm not saying your hell bound if you don't agree with me. That's not my place to judge. Christ is here for you all. I've experienced his love, and I want you all to also.

I AM AN AMERICAN:

Why don't you turn in the vicious murderers who destroyed so many lives in Iraq just so they could suck the oil out of the ground to feed their greedy capitalist machine?

Ashfaq is a brain-dead moron who cannot even see how he has been brainwashed and Rob is a blithering idiot zealot. These 2 extremes are what is wrong with religion.

BT -

I agree, and my amazement in where this conversation went is that he only chose to attack my belief in that I was given good morals to use as tools in my life, even though he was defending the misinterpreted statement (his misinterpretation) I made that Ashfaq shouldn't assume than non-muslim and American ways are the reason for exploitation of females.

Danielle,
Muslims are not sinless. If you step-father committed a sin then he will receive his punishment for it.

Rob - You don't know what is a religion.

Every religion is a way of life.

Christianity: Is a way of life where people TRY to live as sinless as Jesus was.

Islam: Is a way of life where people try to live like how Muhammad lived 1400 years ago.

Can any sane non-racist tell me why is it not better to live like Jesus and not like Muhammad? Muhammad had multiple wives, married his adopted son's wife. He Had slave. He sold slaves and only emancipated slaves when they embraced Islam.

I have no regret in saying the world would be better off by people trying to live like Jesus and not Muhammad.

There are many who worship Hitler as God. Are you going to tell them that their religion is no better than yours?

Ashfaq:
I am only 15 years old and living in chicago, IL. I was raised by a muslim step father, i was accustomed to his ways and what not. My parents were married for ten years. They got divorced October 2005, because he cheated on her. Now you tell me, since the religion of islam is so good by keeping their woman covered, then why do their men chase after those with tight clothes like dogs after a bone?

Ashfaq -

Is it possible that by educating men to have respect for all women, no matter what they are wearing, or what class level they belong to? Is it possible to teach them to learn self control? Why do we women need to cover ourselves, in order for the world to be rape free? Or in order for there to be no extra-marital sexual relations between men and women? Sure you want to reduce the occurance, but don't you think it is up to each indivdual to decide for themselves what they want to do? I am not against fundamental Muslim beliefs, and do know several woman who cover their heads with pride. However, I don't think you need to be covered to warrant safety or avoid sexualization. I think you need to respect each other as humans with the same rights.

In my opinion for women to have to cover themselves to prevent temptation for men, tells me that men are considered very weak, especially since men don't need to cover themselves to protect themselves from the women. We seem to be able to keep our hands off.

Ashfaq, "As Muslims and as human beings we have to try our best within our capacity to see that the evil acts do not occur." Then why do you not turn in your murderous brothers?

I'm an American, and proud of it!

Stacy - I am not trying to raise your ire, but I am truly interested in your perspective of Christinanity. As you just discribed your view of being a Good Christian could also be describing a Good Budhist. What are your core Christian requirements?

The Quran sets a standard according to which individuals will be judged. No one will ever be able to eradicate the social ills prevalent in any society. The point is to lessen the ills to an extent where it is uncommon. Those who are involved in committing actions which are against the commandments of God will get the punishment for it either in this temporal life or in the hereafter. As Muslims and as human beings we have to try our best within our capacity to see that the evil acts do not occur.

The problem is, ASHFAQ is a muslim first, and an american second, if that. He will stand toe to toe, heel to heel, with the most visious muderers in the world and will not single them out. He is not american, he is a muslim, now and always. And he will watch americans die by the hand of his brother and say nothing. Becuase he IS NOT an american first, he is muslim. You watch, he will say nothing about the scum dog Muqtada's remarks. I have no problem with him being a different religon than I, but all the muslim world knows who the terrorist are, but yet they say nothing. Until the muslums turn in their own, I spit on them!

And to "Embarassed by Americans", wake up lady, they want to rape you, gut you, and hang you and your family from a tree and have a party. No, not all mulims, but the peaceful ones will stand by and watch it happen and not turn in the ones that did. Becuase the is no such thing as a mulim american, they are simply muslim.

I thought this was an issue of oversexualized teenage girls, not an issue of what was the best religion for mankind - "the religion of Islam is the best system for mankind, then the exploitation of women would be reduced drastically and they will be viewed with respect instead of as sexual objects" Is this the best system because it teaches, or encourages, them to be hidden for lack of a better term? I think several other cultures and religions have also attempted this position, I believe we too as Americans popularized an ideal of masking women but thanks to women like Rosa Parks, Lucretia Coffin Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and the like, women gained rights. This is not an issue of placing a religion above another it is about respect. Teach women to respect themselves in order to gain and maintain respect, no to hide themselves to avoid sex.

Rob -

My acceptance of the differences in religions of the world and the right to not deny them, makes me a good Christian, because "Judge not, lest ye be judged" I do not think all non-Christians are bad people and I am able to listen to intelligent people discuss their beliefs, as long as they do not turn on all others. I am thankful that in my Chrtistian upbringing, I was taught not to be intollerant of others, and to know the difference between spiritualism and fanaticism. I am also glad that I never became a self proclaimed judge of all other Christians for what they feel.

Posted on March 1, 2007 15:03

Muqtada Sadr:
I love the bickerings of the Infidel Dogs! I know I am hiding my skinny *ss in Iran right now, but Jesus Christ, you don't know how bad it is in Iraq right now. I could be shot!

Ok so I lied, I can't stay away, what is the weather like in Iran tall boy?

Muqtada Sadr-
No bickerings here...just trying to point out that anyone who proclaims to be a Christian, should admit that Christianity is very specific about the fact that all other religions are errant. I am not a fundementalist Christian, but I do take issue with those whose say that others that profess that their religion is the only way are sickening are hypocrites if they are professed Christians. Christians in the fundimentalist sense (Bible following) are be definition intolerant of other religious points of view. Enough said!

Perhaps sexual exploitation of girls/women is more than just how they dress. Certainly, it is more than just preaching certain religious faiths.

It is an unfounded statement to assume the social ills in Islamic society are any less rampant that those of non-Islamic countries. There is drastic under-reporting/non-reporting of such (I've never seen a extramarital affair statistic). Moreover, it is an unfounded statement as to the cause of the social ills. It would appear then, that either humans have failed their faith or the faith has failed them.

Rob -

Copying one sentence out of my comment is not quoting me. Here is what I actually said.

ASHFAQ, I am sorry to say that a majority of Muslim communities treat women without respect. They are not allowed to vote, work, learn, drive, etc in many regions of the world, including America depending on their family's or government's beliefs. They are therefore not allowed to think for themselves. Protection for women is to somehow educate all men and women of the world on the rights women have over their own bodies and minds. If she does not want to have sex with a rapist and he is unable to control his sickness, she is not to blame nor is her clothing. With respect to your faith, I know many Muslims who do not believe it is a woman's job to cover herself to avoid tempting men. It is everyone's responsibility to have repect for all around them.

Most directly to the following:

On a global scale I do believe girls are oversexualized, but I do not believe that the "Muslim" way from your ramblings (AS IN ASHFAQ'S RAMBLINGS ABOVE) is the cure. By the way, I am Christian, and although it has never been recited from our Bible that we should dress a certain way, many virtues are outlined there, and to say the world is wrong because it is not Muslim, (BECAUSE ASHFAQ SAID THE MUSLIM WAY WAS THE ANSWER) is sickening, and then to say it is because they are American (BECAUSE ASHFAQ SAID "God Almighty (Allah) has ordained for us to have sexual relations with our wife not with strangers on the street as so often occurs in the American society. I am a Muslim who have grown up most of my life in this country and I see how women have been subjugated and oppressed in this society. Women are treated with respect in Islam. They are our mothers, our sisters, our wives. We would not want them to be looked at inappropriately or hurt in any way. The modest dress code is a protection for them. In America women are left to fend for themselves. The majority of men in the American society are simply looking to exploit the women sexually and then dispose them after they have been thoroughly exploited.) is even worse. I am not American, and I do not think Americans are responsible for perversions in the world. I believe any close minded and sheltered individual who directs responsiblity on clothing, rather than their own moral judgement is.

Stop putting words and morals in my mouth. God (and Allah) blesses all of his children, not just the self righteous ones.

I love the bickerings of the Infidel Dogs! I know I am hiding my skinny *ss in Iran right now, but Jesus Christ, you don't know how bad it is in Iraq right now. I could be shot!

I believe there is a box on the corner of the street for you people to go stand on...

Stacy - To be Christian is to believe in Jesus Christ correct? If you don't agree with this, and that your salvation rests on your acceptance of Jesus as your savior, then you should not profess to be Christian. Your "exposure" to other religions has no bearing on your declaration of being Christian. What does being Christian mean to you exactly? Did Christ die for your sins? If not, don't falsely label yourself a Christian, you are not!

Rob

Don't tell me what i am bound to believe. I have many exposures to various religions Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and I think they all offer some wealth of virue. If you want to pick a fight with someone, make sure you are actually understanding what they say and offer a valid dispute, not one that is sanctimonious and narrow minded.

Stacy - you need to go back and re-read your inital post. I cut and pasted what you said...and to tell me to shut up, why that is not very Christian like is it?

Can't understand you...Go back to your country....

Wait, what am I supposed to be commenting about?

Shut up. I never said Muslim's said "and to say the world is wrong because it is not Muslim, is sickening," I said Ashfaq said it. Learn to read you stupid spaz.

Stacy -
I did reread your inital post and you did profess to be a Christian didn't you? As a Christian you are bound as a believer in the Bible to accept that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Where exactly did I misinterpret your words?

I find it interesting that Muqtada Sadr can type on a computer keyboard while straped-up in a straight jacket in a mental hospital.

Nah. I was released from the mental hospital last week by God's (Allah's) will.
Infidel!

STOP ALL THE BICKERING & JUST GROW -UP

I better get back to work and leave this thread to the "serious" posters!

Stacy - correct me if I am wrong here, but how am I suppose to interpret your words "and to say the world is wrong because it is not Muslim, is sickening,", other to imply that it is sickening to believe that anyone who does not accept the Muslim point of view? My point is that Christians are fundementally taught to spread God's Word to the world so that they can be saved. Salvation is only achieved through accepting Christ. How is this different than the Muslim perspective that all other religions are in fact errant?

First of all, I am not anti-American, I am against the injustices and evils committed by those in charge of this government who are fooling the ignorant masses in the country. I am sorry but ignorance is very prevalent through a large part of this society as is the case in many other societies. All the views I hear from people are what is being fed to them from the mass media. Learn about Islam and for that matter anything else with an open mind.

Interesting: I am a white boy having fun and I doubt you could kick my 6'2" 200 lb ass ;-)
(At least I hope).
Ha Ha

ROFLMAO!

I find it interesting that Muqtada Sadr can type on a computer keyboard while straped-up in a straight jacket in a mental hospital.

I have been told by a friend who had lived in Algeria, that the women covered their faces at the beach but went topless with their breasts uncovered.

YOU ARE NOT allah YOU ARE A JACKASS AND I AM NOT A WHITE BOY I AM A WOMAN WHO WILL KICK YOUR IRAQY ASS ANY DAY!

Interesting: I am a white boy having fun and I doubt you could kick my 6'2" 200 lb ass ;-)
(At least I hope).
Ha Ha

Rob-

If you read my post, you would see that I did not say that Christianity was the only way. Please don't interpret things with a jaded mind, and make accusations based on your lack of reading. I said Ashfaq shouldn't say Muslim is the right way. There are many religions in the world, and as it has been pointed out in this forum, religion can be interpreted and taught in many different perspectives. My only reference to Christianity was as a Christian, I learned moral virtues that hopefully make me personally a good and charitable peron. I have not been told to dress a certain way to prevent being raped. Maybe some Christians have been told to dress a certain way to avoid being raped. Obviously as a Christian, you did not read with an open mind what I had to say, and are as guilty as you accuse me. I did not say Muslim cite their religion as the only right way. I said Ashfaq should not cite Muslim as the right way.

This blog has gotten out of hand. Now everyone posting is actign prejudice and unruly. Look back at these posts. This is ridiculous.

BTW: Who is to say that any religion is perfect?

I know many muslims whom are religious however have very normal lifestyles and are not close-minded in stating that they're religion is THE religion.

I also know many Muslims that are ashamed of others whom take part in the horrible acts.

On the otherhand, there is a term called "Cultural-relativism" that i think is important to understand this day in age. Everyone on this blog should look it up,better yet register for a class in Cultural communication so we can all get along a little better.

If your so ashmed to be an american then maybe you should go denounce your citizenship..., but I'm guessing you won't....

Muqtada Sadr:
Hey Interesting: Wake up white boy! Muqtada is now hiding in Iran. It is I, Allah, who posted that comment.

YOU ARE NOT allah YOU ARE A JACKASS AND I AM NOT A WHITE BOY I AM A WOMAN WHO WILL KICK YOUR IRAQY ASS ANY DAY!

Ashfaq: Im bi partial to all religions, however it seems that you first comments have changed drastically from you previous posts. I have read many accounts of women whom have be raped and stoned by their OWN families after being pressured into premarital sex by a man. Not only was she beaten beyond belief, she was shamed from the entire community forever. Im sure in the Quran it doesnt promote stoning, rape, death; however this seemd to be prominent in some sections of Muslim countries.

Also, you say that that "Practicing Muslim women cover their bosoms and their rear ends and in addition they wear loose-fitting clothes so as to avoid the unwanted sexual interest of other men" so obviously your religion doesn't believe in equality, rather oppression. Why are women supposed to cover themselves and be "oppressed" while men dress/ speak and have various rights unlike women. It seems to me that the men need a lesson on self-control.

The Christian bible also speaks about covering up and showing modesty; however Christian religions for the most part have become less traditionalist and have chages along with the cultural changes that have happended since the "writing" of htese scriptures.

I think its important that people whom are religious/ non-religious recognize that as the times have changed since biblical scriptures have been written, so has the culture that we live in. Therefore, i feel that in a way religion should follow its tradidions, but still be allowed to progress just as bills can be sent to congress, and loop holes are made in laws.

We are ever evolving

Ashfaq, sounds like your buddy Sadr read the part of the "perfect" Quran that speaks about killing innocent men, woman and children. What I dint understand is, I tell my govenment that killing your innocent people is not acceptable to me, but I never hear from your holy leaders when, in the name of Allah, your own people blow up these "woman" of whom you say your religion respects so much.

I THINK YOUR GOD AND MINE IS INDEED PERFECT, HE FIGURED OUT THAT THE ONE WAY TO ENSURE THAT NEW IDEAS COULD COME INTO PLAY IS TO HAVE "TERM LIMITS"... so that you and I will not be here forever to harvest our ignorance of each other.

Can I also say Ashfaq, that if you are conscious of your obligations in the world as a Muslim, you would be careful enough to think about and abstain from your anti-American comments, extra-marital sex is not limited to America. It happens everywhere in the world, and even in Muslim countries. You being anti-American having grown up in said America, is to me a sign of something really bad.

Hey Interesting: Wake up white boy! Muqtada is now hiding in Iran. It is I, Allah, who posted that comment.

Ashfaq, this is allah. I command you to shutup now. You and the other muslims are violent, religious nuts who follow me. I admit here, publicly, for the first time, that I too was a nut, and everything in the Quran was me talking out my butt.

I am not here to argue with anyone. We are all brothers and sisters (if you believe that we all originated from our parents Adam and Eve (Peace be upon them)). We need to find solutions to combat the sexual exploitation of women. I have suggested something from an Islamic point of view. If you have other suggestions, I would like to hear them.

Muqtada Sadr:
Ashfaq: Quiet my son of God (Allah). We will kill the infidel dogs in good time. Be patient.

Yeah you think your asses are going to fly over here in planes and kill us you have another thing comming. You don't have to worry about Americans killing you, you all do a great job of that yourself. So no you be patient and await our nukes, they are comming straight for you.

Moha:
Humans are not perfect and I am not saying that all Muslims are perfect, there are many who are not. The Quran is perfect. God (Allah) is perfect. If we choose to follow His directives to the letter then ofcourse life would be perfect. But it's not, so yes Muslim societies do have some similar problems, but far from the same extent as faced in Western societies.

Stacy -
As a Christian, I will be the first to correct you in your assertion that Muslims are the only theological entity to proclaim that all others not believing in their point of view are wrong. What do you think Christians believe? Fundementally, if you are to accept the Bible as 'God's Word' and inerrant, then all those who do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and someone who died on the cross for your sins in order to grant you salvation, are doomed to perish in eternal hell. I am adamently opposed to the Islamic proclamations for many reasons, but let's be honest, Christianity is a religion that is founded in intolerance of other viewpoints.

I would like everyone on this panel to go to Muslim women who wear the head cover and ask them if they feel oppressed. I will tell you something, I have a sister who is going to be a pharmacist soon (God-Willing), I have another sister on her way to becoming a doctor. I just ask everyone to look at both sides of the issues before making comments. The mass market media (controlled by the elite) only covers one side and is deliberately painting Muslims and Islam under a bad light. Go to a mosque, search for Islamic sources. Pick up a copy of a book called Sahih Bukhari which has the sayings and teachings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

Ashfaq: Quiet my son of God (Allah). We will kill the infidel dogs in good time. Be patient.

It is important to separate cultural practices from the teachings of Islam. Unfortunately, many Muslims themselves confuse that as well. Islamic teachings are not about oppressing women. However, interpretations of Islamic teachings by man (or rather convenient interpretations of such) often lead to the oppression of women or hatred of other communities. Islam recognizes that women and men are different and both have certain societal obligations (can a man give birth to a child?). Having different obligations does not imply inequality but recognizes the practicality of life.

ASHFAQ sounds like a troll.

EMBARASSED BY AMERICANS sounds either like another troll or ASHFAQ posting under a different name.

Don't feed the troll.

Not all of Islam is bad, as ASHFAQ would like us to believe.

You know Ashfaq, your correct in a lot of your points...way to stick to your guns and intellibly respond to the childest quips.

Ashfaq:

While the intentions behind dressing modestly are admirable, it still has not eliminated sexual deviancy, premarital sex, and extramarital affairs in Muslim countries. Living in a Muslim country, it is shameful that girls are still raped, sometimes by family members. Extramarital affairs are rampant. Premarital sex is common. Dressing modestly has not saved those young girls/women from rape. Dressing modestly has not curbed extramarital affairs or premarital sex. Continuing to deny these problems or to look past them discredits the moral highground of the Umma.

BT:
There are conditions to being able to marry four women in Islam. Just to let you know in this American society people are married and they have mutiple sexual partners on the side. In Islam, we marry our women, not use them simply for sexual relations.

I cannot believe that people would treat such an articulate young man, who happens to be Muslim, with such disrespect.

Here you have a man that is peacefully and calmly stating what he believes to be true, and refusing to stoop to the insulting and bigoted level of those such as Like 2 Keep My Head.

I am ashamed today to be American - as a Muslim man cannot speak his peaceful opinion without being accused of violent tendencies.

God (Allah) has said that there are righteous people amongst the people of the book and God (Allah) knows best who is deserving of paradise. I am in no position to judge except from what I see clearly. I would rather not go into the topic of killing but just to let you know that America and the west have been responsible for most of the destruction which is occuring in the world. The destruction and genocide of Iraq by the use of "shock and awe". The usage of atomic weapons against Japan which led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The usage of chemical weapons against Vietnam which led to the destruction of many cities and many innocent inhabitants of those cities.

Wake up, ASHFAQ. Your interpretation of God's will was written by a human being bent on controlling you. Sorry, but Allah did not write that stuff and you know it. It was a human who was either trying to keep us from killing each other in very different times or trying to manipulate us. Spirituality is God's way, religion is the Devil's. There has been more killing caused by religion (Christianity as well as Muslim) than any other thing in the world.

Think about it.

Haha, American women are "left to fend for themselves". OH the horror! An adult on their own? What should we do? How do we fill our time? Lets let someone else tell us how to behave since we do not have the capacity to do it on our own.

Unreal. When you wonder how people do things in the name of sick interpretation of religion, you need not look any farther than this kind of lemming.

Love,

Allah

ASHFAQ, I am sorry to say that a majority of Muslim communities treat women without respect. They are not allowed to vote, work, learn, drive, etc in many regions of the world, including America depending on their family's or government's beliefs. They are therefore not allowed to think for themselves. Protection for women is to somehow educate all men and women of the world on the rights women have over their own bodies and minds. If she does not want to have sex with a rapist and he is unable to control his sickness, she is not to blame nor is her clothing. With respect to your faith, I know many Muslims who do not believe it is a woman's job to cover herself to avoid tempting men. It is everyone's responsibility to have repect for all around them.

On a global scale I do believe girls are oversexualized, but I do not believe that the "Muslim" way from your ramblings is the cure. By the way, I am Christian, and although it has never been recited from our Bible that we should dress a certain way, many virtues are outlined there, and to say the world is wrong because it is not Muslim, is sickening, and then to say it is because they are American is even worse. I am not American, and I do not think Americans are responsible for perversions in the world. I believe any close minded and sheltered individual who directs responsiblity on clothing, rather than their own moral judgement is.

I suppose that the respect that you speak of ASHFAQ is the rape of a woman because a family member has committed a crime or the stoning of a woman that has committed no crime, but has been raped thereby shaming her family?

Its a shame that we have people like Ashfaq who continue to respect Muhammad the slave owner as a prophet.

Did God make a miskate by not making four eves for Adam or did Muhammad mislead moslems into having multiple wives (Adultery)? Its time the western world say no to racism say no to muhammad the slave owner.

No, you dont hurt anyone under guise of Islam... Ya, you got it all figured out, Ashfaq. You interpet things the way you are told to interpet them. You chop off arms and legs and kill people under the name of your god.. You dont even want your women to go to school... And YOU want to tell the rest of us how much YOU care about women? You think the way you do because you know nbo other way, are not allowed to consider other ways, you will die and rot in the dirt and end up the same place the rest of us will... Unless of course, you have been brainwashed to think that ONLY you and ONLY your religion is the absolute right.... Poor souls.

Yeah, oppressing women really solves the exploitation of women. Lets just take out their vocal chords, right to vote, right to drive, hell, right to live without our say-so.

We do not need to run from sexuality. Sexuality does not equal exploitation. Just do not allow sexually charged images of young girls. Simple. There is no need to take huge steps backwards to some archaic interpretation of "God's Will".

What an insult to humanity.

Like 2 Keep my Head:

It's your decision to do with your life as you will because God (Allah) has given each individual free will. Each individual is responsible for himself/herself. If you choose to view those images, then ofcourse you will receive the sin for that. On the Day of Judgment you will have to answer for your deeds.

I like billboard's with scantily clad women on it. If I don't convert to Islam am I at risk of having my head cut off? It certainly seems like it these days.

God Almighty (Allah) has ordained for us to have sexual relations with our wife not with strangers on the street as so often occurs in the American society. I am a Muslim who have grown up most of my life in this country and I see how women have been subjugated and oppressed in this society. Women are treated with respect in Islam. They are our mothers, our sisters, our wives. We would not want them to be looked at inappropriately or hurt in any way. The modest dress code is a protection for them. In America women are left to fend for themselves. The majority of men in the American society are simply looking to exploit the women sexually and then dispose them after they have been thoroughly exploited.

Re Ashfaq's comment.
And when you treat them like a used car, like you wouldn't treat a dog, did the Quran tell you that was ok too? By the way, we are sexual beings, that's how you exist to sell your Quran garbage to us.

Ofcourse the men have to lower their gaze when they see someone who is dressed immodestly.

I agree Women should be modest in there clothing and actions but men need to control there desires. It it not up to just the woman.

Oh..and another thing, I get plenty of respect from those I work with. They are more concerned with how I think, not how I look.

Women deserve respect based on our thoughts and ideas, not what we wear.

I don't feel overly sexualized or exploited. I like how my body looks and I like to show off that I'm in good health and that I know how to take care of myself.

As for younger girls. It is the parents responsibility to ensure that they are raised properly not a religion or the government.

The Bible says the same things about dressing demurely and what not, so please don't turn this into a religion issue.

And?

This problem is addressed correctly by the Muslim society. God Almighty (Allah) commands the womenfolk in the Quran to cover themselves modestly and not to display their beauty except to their husbands. Practicing Muslim women cover their bosoms and their rear ends and in addition they wear loose-fitting clothes so as to avoid the unwanted sexual interest of other men. If the society of the Phillipines and the rest of the world would understand that the religion of Islam is the best system for mankind, then the exploitation of women would be reduced drastically and they will be viewed with respect instead of as sexual objects.