ALNAJJR,

The economic one that is crumbling before most peoples eyes right now. Oh, just my imagination right Einstein.

And you love it when people imagine things. Like thinking that they can live beyond their means and never having to actually pay for it? Brilliant.
Build arguments around them. And you still don't get it. You silly man. Then reach a conclusion that should be somehow be accepted by others under the banner of reality. Guess housing, Banks, Markets, 401 losses, Job losses are not real enough for you, and the rest that were totally surprised also. Whats wrong, I. Q. not to high for you to reach a reality conclusion? Did you loose your senses also?

Zargon, what real world are you talking about ?

I love it when people imagine things, build arguments around them, then reach a conclusion that should somehow be accepted by others under the banner of "reality".

The final ending of this march of folly will disclose that the USA will eventually find itself back at square one minus 2 Trillion dollars, a stronger Iran, a weaker Pakistan, and eventually a new Iraqi leader that will make Saddam Husein look like a patsy. Oh, and then again I haven't even touched on Afghanistan ( more folly ?).

Obviously many will disagree, just like the many that have been totally blindsided by the current economic situation that has yet to completely unfold. Why, because because most are oblivious to the realities of the real world.

Against the war before it began, this pathetic outcome is no surprise: it is lost. (Next to go folks - Afghanistan!)
Let's face it: this is perhaps the most corrupt war in history. It was to rob oil, after the cruelty Bush 1 delivered to its abused people.
Do not cry too hard over the financial mess it brought on, more is to come. Well deserved, as America showed how bloodthirsty and greedy it could get. Sorry, no sympathies. All our longtime allies told us to stay clear; instead we jeered them with "Freedom Fries"; Whose crying now?

Against the war before it began, this pathetic outcome is no surprise: it is lost. (Next to go folks - Afghanistan!)
Let's face it: this is perhaps the most corrupt war in history. It was to rob oil, after the cruelty Bush 1 delivered to its abused people.
Do not cry too hard over the financial mess it brought on, more is to come. Well deserved, as America showed how bloodthirsty and greedy it could get. Sorry, no sympathies. All our longtime allies told us to stay clear; instead we jeered them with "Freedom Fries"; Whose crying now?

Wow, unanimity! And I concur totally and completely! The certified idiots still inhabit the State, Defense, and other political positions…and still hold the idiotic notions that America has some understanding of the world and that Americans have some unique moral position that gives it some basis for unique “control” of world events! Well, that belief should be repudiated, but like our equally baseless belief in the Christian Bible, it continues on!
Americans are “money” traders, pure and simple, with no values beyond making the short term buck! It is revealed in our military actions, our political actions, our social structures, as well as our economic actions! There would be no American wars if we did not allow for economic “profits” whether direct military weapons and materials, promotions of our Generals, inflated government “contracts”, and jobs for our punditry of MSM, bloggers, and especially the ubiquitous Think Tanks; and lest I forget the spewing nonsense from “talk” radio and our pulpits!
The world can hope that the financial debacles of the great America Ponzi schemes of our Financial and Political “Leaders” will force a small degree of limitation on the Military Hubris and ignorance!

This is why the Iraqis won...

"When attacked, the proper response is to place your head firmly under the boot of the nearest American, then stay that way in abject supplication for a little over 5 years. When they finally get tired of listening to you uyulate and leave, jump wildly up and down, light a few widows on fire and proclaim absolute victory." Taken from the advanced muslim fighting guide, 2002 edition.

First Big Mistake: Invasion of Iraq based on lies or faulty intel.
Second Big Mistake: Being willfully blind to the insurgency for three years.
First Big Thing Done Right: Petraeus/Odierno architected Counter-Insurgency strategy. This corrects the Second Big Mistake and allows:
Second Big Thing That Needs to Be Done Right: Careful withdrawal from Iraq of combat troops.

I wouldn't call that a victory, but neither is it a shameful defeat. What happens after we leave is an Iraqi issue for the Iraqis to solve. And let's give Bush some credit for getting rid of Rumsfeld, not taking more Cheney advice, and finally putting the right people in charge. If not for the COIN strategy implemented by Petraeus and Odierno, Obama would be facing a much worse situation and we would be looking at a humiliating defeat.

Psst guess what, Vietnam was just a series of battles that the US mostly won. And in the larger context of the Cold War, it was a proxy fight showing that the US could defeat soviet equipped and trained forces. You do realize had we not into Vietnam you would not even have posted this on the same "Internet" right.

We also won in Iraq, where we showed arabs that the US was not to be screwed over with by them supplying terrorists and then claiming no responsibility. Did you really think we went to war in Iraq over WMDs? There were many other reasons quoted that were far more germane. please go talk to some military historians and stop drinking up the apologists line for the US.

The last war the US lost was the Civil War. And it was lost before Lincoln even took office. If you can't understand that then you don't even understand wars.

Quote: The problem of Iraq is for the Iraqis to solve, and for its immediate neighbors to help.
----
Excuse me, Mr Endy Bayuni, but Iraq does not have normal neighbors, saying they should help is like asking a gang of rapists to help the victims.

Now, in the grand thought lived by muslims about victimization suffered at the hands of the USA; let's move into this thought process, shall we?

In the eyes of the majority of non-Iraqis, the USA "the one that aided tyrants" has no right to help remove saddam, then going by the same token, why should the neighbors who aided militias that killed thousands upon thousands of Iraqis, why should those criminals have that right of interference in Iraq ?

What makes Iraq the property of muslims and arabs for their opinions to matter, really, when did we become their property?

And why I don't see any Iraqi names in this discussion, fearing different views, are we ?

Our real humiliation will be if we lose any more control over our southern border. The drug cartel war is spilling over into the U.S., throughout the country. Mexico appears to be close to anarchy; law enforcement officials, judges and prosecutors are routinely killed. How long before this begins to happen inside the U.S.? We need martial law along the border; we need our military resources directed to defense of the homeland. Even Rome eventually had to recall its legions to defend the city and its environs from the barbarians.

The situation in Iraq is nothing like Vietnam and parallels would not be accurate and shouldn't be made. If civil war results in Iraq being split along ethnic lines, which appears inevitable, then that will be a free exercise of choice made by the Iraqi people. One thing the U.S. should learn from this intervention is that no country can dictate governance to another. Freedom, peace, and the pursuit of happiness, if there is to be any, must come from the affected people themselves through their own blood, sweat and tears. The ability to choose, which they certainly didn't have before, is what the U.S. has given the Iraqi people. While their choice may not be what we had in mind for them, our mission has not failed.

Wouldn't the world be a far better place if the human species were completely annihilated?

I am now completely ashamed to call myself a human - to be associated with a race of people who take such great pleasure in mutilating each other over greed and spite.

When my time comes to go to the great beyond I will be so relieved to leave all this rot behind me. Most of the world leaders should be put to death for crimes of humanity. Words cannot describe the disgust I feel for what they have done to this planet and all the innocent victims.

God will judge the instigators of the world's travesties and many will weep in despair and shame. But it will be too late for them because they have already been lost.

Do you realize how out of touch you are?

First off, the comparison to Vietnam is way off. You should be comparing it to the likes of Chile, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, et al. The Iraq war is about global economies, greed and despotism that comes right out of the Chicago School Economics. READ: Privatization.

Second; the USA didn't lose the war in Iraq; they won. Halliburton, Blackwater, et al have sucked billions upon billions of dollars as a 'for profit' business.

Who created, managed and directed these companies? That's right - members of the federal US Govt. Who by the way, were never forced to give up their stake in companies that would profit based on their decisions. They masterminded a war for profit at the expense of US taxpayers.

The US will only send their troops in if there is a profit to be gained.

US foreign policy for the past 30+ years has been about funding wars to create a global free market economy.

Welcome to the age of Shock Therapy!!!

Like all empires this one will also fall...it's likely to be sooner rather than later.

It appears as though you need to read a substantial amount about history and geopolitics; it's exactly the same as it was 30-40 years ago.

With all due respect, when did you write this- 3 years ago? Was it laying around for a snow day when you didn't want to write something new? There is no humiliating defeat in Iraq. Thanks to Bush's decision to "double down," Obama can now drawdown responsibly, confident that we have given millions of people a chance at a better future. Whether or not we should have been there in the first place is an entirely different debate. Why you insist on carrying on this Harry Reid "The war is lost" nonsense is beyond me. No amount of attempted revisionism will change the fact that America dug in her heels and stuck it out.

Thank you,
@smrosenberg (twitter)