PostGlobal co-moderator David Ignatius is a Washington Post columnist with a wide-ranging career in journalism, having served at various times as a reporter, foreign correspondent and editor. He has also written widely for magazines and published six novels. Ignatius’s twice-weekly column on global politics, economics and international affairs debuted on The Washington Post op-ed page in January 1999, and has been syndicated worldwide by The Washington Post Writers Group. The column won the 2000 Gerald Loeb Award for Commentary and a 2004 Edward Weintal Prize. From September 2000 to January 2003, Ignatius served as executive editor of the Paris-based International Herald Tribune. Prior to becoming a columnist, Ignatius was the Post´s assistant managing editor in charge of business news, a position he assumed in 1993. He served as the Post´s foreign editor from 1990 to 1992, supervising the paper´s Pulitzer Prize-winning coverage of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From 1986 to 1990, he was editor of the Post´s Sunday Outlook section.
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David Ignatius
PostGlobal co-moderator David Ignatius is a Washington Post columnist with a wide-ranging career in journalism, having served at various times as a reporter, foreign correspondent and editor. He has also written widely for magazines and published six novels
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i seem to have inspired you to tell lies. Israel did not carry out massacres. The Arabs expelled Jews from their lands. They were imitating Muhammad, the founding mullah of Islam.
Ask the Arabs who live in Israel if they would like to live alongside their Palestinian Muslim brothers. I have asked them. Their answer is an emphatic "no." The proof of the pudding is in eating it. The Arabs of Israel have tasted their pudding and they do want the Palestinians to spoil it.
While no supporter of Netanyahu or our current government, I have to wonder which two states the Jordanian king is referring to. Israel must be one of them, since he's talking about us. But which is the other one? Is it the one represented by Arafat's only crony, Abbas, working out of Ramallah in the West Bank or the one controlled by Hamas located in Gaza? Since these two are politically and philosophically opposed to one another and have, of late, been engaged in quite lethal violence to supress the other on their respective home turfs, the question of what the kings means is far from academic. At the moment then, Netenyahu gets my support for his policy, if only because there really is no Palestinian peace partner. Ze'ev
I have a great deal of respect for the Dictator of Jordan. Despite all of the anti Israel and antisemitic hatred in the responses a simple fact has been forgotten.
If the Arabs were to lay down their arms against Israel there would be peace between Israel and it's neighbors. If the Israeli's were to lay down their arms a horrible massacre would take place.
If you don't believe me ask Hamas and Hiz b'allah
Security for Israel:Justice for Palestine. That is the only formula I would support if America asks me to send my children and grandchildren off to fight in the Middle East.
President Obama must know that "we won't go"( to borrow the chant from the 60's)as long as the Palestinian people suffer under apartheid.
How many Palestinian refugees are there in the Middle East, living in various camps?
President Obama needs to do two things to bring peace in the Middle East: prosecute AIPAC and other parasite jewish lobby groups for espionage including traitors like Jane Harman; and tell Nethanyahu no more US aid and arms. Israel is a rich country by Western standards, and there is no reason why the US continues to provide almost $1000 annually to every Israeli citizen. The reason aid continues is due the power of the Jewish lobby backed by wealthy jews. We voted for Obama, not the jewish lobby which conspired to torpedo his election every step. Obama has no need to obey the dictates of the jewish lobby. If Obama gets tough with these parasites, he will be reelected by a bigger margin.
It's so clear what Israel has to give up. A Palestinian state run by Hamas will emerge. The Golan will have to be returned to Syria, the refugee camps holding 1.5 million people will simply be allowed to move back into Israel proper.
Gaza and the West Bank will be connected right through Israel displacing many Israelis and creating a security nightmare . All this for what??? What type of recognition are we talking about? Arab leaders won't even visit Israel to negotiate a peace deal. These Arab countries cannot even treat their own people with dignity.
King Abdullah is presenting Israel with an offer that cannot be refused if Israel really wants peace with its arab neighbors. However, Israel does not appear to want peace with its arab neighbors for several reasons: 1) Israel is committed to expanding its borders to include all of Palestinian land, as well as lebanon and Syria. 2) Israel profits financially from conflict with its arab neighbors-- uses Gaza is a cash cow, receives annual shipments of sophistcated weapons from the US that cost millions of dollars along with intelligence. 3)Conflict is a tool for soliciting charitable contributions from US and around the world. 4)Israel has an exceptionally close relationship with the US because of its conflict with arab neighbors.
It will be interesting to read Israel's justification for not accepting King Abdullah's offer, but Israel will come up with something. In any case, Israel's rejection of King Abdullah's offer should dispel all illusions that Israel wants to live in peace with its arab neighbor neighbors.
Netanyahu was the Israeli participant in the flawed Oslo Agreements thus supports a two state solution.That was when the Palestinians were homogeneous. Now we have two irreconcilables, Fatah and Hamas. One committed to a two state solution and the other committed to the eradication of Israel. A reading of the Hamas Covenant reveals:
1.Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
2.The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Abdullah and Raina, the 2 pretty lil poster children for what a good Ayrab should be know their catechism well and recite it very nicely indeed.
Their pocket money keeps coming if they keep all the Washington Aunties and Uncles happy and nothing makes the Aunties and Uncles in Washington happy than 2 state solution, reconciliation, solving The Mid east.
Bibi also knows his catechism well and knows how to make so called Friendly Ayrab leaders happy.
Ya can have a Palestinian state in Idaho, Texas or Hamburg, ya can't have one in Israel. Oh and as for Jordan's Abdullah, he IS the Palestinian state but he is too scared of them after the chaos they created for his Daddy.
The king's rationale has a fundamental flaw: that Israelis want to play by the rules of the international community and or be a responsible member of a world system. And I wonder who had let the Israelis think that they could be different, exceptional or just a spoilt childish system of chaos?
I think what King Abdullah states is eminently reasonable and productive and encouraging...and I sense that it is rooted in sincerity. Human beings must interact with each other predicated on mutual respect in order to overcome historical inequities and differences. Debating history, and/or militarism and conflict will never solve problems."A journey of a thousand miles, begins with just one step"..I pray that we can find the strength and wisdom to take that first step together, with good will and create mutual trust for the betterment of mankind. Can you imagine how wonderful the middle-east would be if Israel and its neighbours pooled its' resources for the prosperity and peaceful co-existence of all of its' inhabitants? Halevi..Inshala...Catuv..Machtub! Respect...and empathy is essential..
Dave, Dave Dave..... I've been reading your columns for 9+ years, now, and you generally seem like a decent guy. I don't always agree with you, but every time I read your stuff I find it hard to discern whether or not you're speaking from your heart or just saying what your zionist puppet-masters at "The Post" want you to say, in order to keep your job. If, as I suspect, the latter is true, I think you should take a good long walk and realize that you're not doing yourself, us readers, justice, truth or your soul any good by staying where you are. Start your own web-site. I'll be the first to pay you to tell THE TRUTH. It ain't much, but I'm willing to bet there are a LOT of "Post" readers who are sick and tired of reading nonsense designed to deflect the ugly truth from the most racist and lying regime EVER: Israel.
As the country’s first Prime Minister Polish born David Ben-Gurion infamously proclaimed,
"We must do everything to insure they [the Palestinians] never do return...The old will die and the young will forget."
“To maintain the status quo will not do. We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion.”Relinquishing conquered territory, ending occupation, halting further settlement activity (let alone dismantling existing ones), stopping home demolitions or anything deemed to conflict with this fundamental objective will never be (seriously) considered.
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
The catastrophe of the Palestinian people could have been mitigated tremendously had it not been for the ignorance of the whole Arab people. The Palestinians’ big mistake was the faith they placed in the Arab leaders’ promises. The Arabs in general had failed to correctly assess the geopolitical map of the modern world. They tried to displace a modern nation with the mentality of the Middle Ages. They had only recently (1917) come out from under 5 centuries of utter subjugation , oppression and impoverishment by the even more backward Turks. Those were the same years when most of the rest of the world advanced from the Dark Age into the Industrial Age. Even today those 23 Arab countries along with the other 34 Muslim countries pay only lip service to the Palestinians , at best because they are impotent, and at worse because they could care less.
More history: The Arab League post-1967 told Jordan to drop its claim on the West Bank and Jerusalem in order to further the cause not of a Palestinian/Israeli two state solution but a two Palestinian state solution. Without the support of the Arab League, Jordan no longer sought the return of the West Bank. That's a shame.
There is no solution to this, only ultimate ruin and disaster as in the historic parallel of the Crusader States. This is because the US has no effective power to restrain Israel. To be an elective official in this country requires slavish adherence to Zionism.
Example: Sec. Clinton could say no more that more and more annexations and colonization of Palestinian land was "unhelpful". How simply pathetic is this? But that is reality.
When I first read the title, I thought that Obama still was under the impression that the United States had 57 states because he stated that he had visited 57 states during the coampaign.
Israel is a racist state that has instituted an apartheid against the Palestinian people. Their recent attack on Gaza complete with the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent civilians and wholesale destruction of their critical infrastructure was no less horrifying than the collective punishment of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. The United States should present Israel with a simple ultimatum: move back to the 1967 borders and close all settlements (racist gated communities) or US aid will halt entirely. I am disgusted that my tax dollars are used to arm the Israelis so they can pursue their brutal apartheid and steal land.
Palestine and Israel: one-state or two-state solution
The success or failure of the administration of President Obama with Israel would determine the nature of future stability for the Middle East.
Any rational and humanistic resolution of Palestinian dilemma has been non-starter with Israel. The problems of Palestinian subjugation to Israel occupation are the seeds for an unstable world including the Middle East. Many expect, as previously stated by Iran and many Arab counties, that they would not reject a reasonable break through between Washington and Israel over the Palestinians home state or a Federal State for both people.
The Palestinian issue, over 40 years of baffling by Israel throwing one excuse after another to derail any prospect, is independent of any other world concern for the US administration. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton should not allow Israel to dictate the foreign policy of the United States. Israel has used Iran as diversion away from creation of an independent Palestinian state.
What are the options for Palestinian and Israeli people? Among those mostly discussed are: a two-state models for Palestine and Israel, or a Federal State of Israel-Palestine
The two-state models for Palestinian and Israeli is not acceptable with Israel. Many experts on the Middle Eastern politics and people would suggest that a two-state solution in not viable model. We have struggled with it for nearly 60 years.
Should we be looking at the region as a Federal States with one government elected by all of the people? This model may have a much better chance of survival as a solution for both Israeli and Arabs.
USA can’t afford war after war to support failed attempts to stabilize the region. Palestinians have paid a high price for failed attempts to consider the human side of the Palestinians struggle for peaceful life.
Many suggest that only as one nation, Federal State of Israel-Palestine, the peace may endure. We, Americans, have failed to recognize that Palestinians and Jews both are Semitic people, they have common historical and religious heritage.
The advocates for one-state solution stress that under a two-state solution, Jerusalem can not be the capital of Israel. This city is religious holy city belonging to Jews, Muslims and Christians. This city should not be controlled by a theocratic Jewish state; in that case, it should be an open international city.
but wonder whether most decent nations of the world could be delivered to relagions with constantly warring
barbarian Israel.
Particularly when Americans and others find that the whole torture thing thing here was the neocon's gig... to tie Osama to Iraq...to get us to war. Which they did.
Who wants to partner with a government headed by
the Netanyahoo with his fetid and terrorist history as long as any in the modern world. Only Sharon, Israel's beloved Sharon, was worrse.
The only path to a two state solution is for the United States to pressure Israel to stop building settlements and to remove existing illegal settlements. Israel could still control the land as a bargaining chip, but there would be no Israeli population on those lands.
This will have the following beneficial effects:
1. end the interactions between Palestianians and the Israeli settlers and the Israeli military tasked with protecting the settlers. This would lower the level of friction somewhat.
2. end the dream of some Israelis of a "greater Israel" that includes the settlements. While it persists, the clinging to the hope of a greater Israeli is a barrier to peace.
3. reduce the influence of the settlers on Israel politics. The settlers include many violent extremists. Many of them beleive their actions are willed by God and God gave them the settlement lands. This faction needs to be diluted or peace will never occur.
4. undermine the view of many Palestinians that Israel is occupying the land merely to try to take it.
If you include the West Bank and Gaza, Israel has been ruling over a population that is only 50% Jewish for over 50 years. It still effect governs Gaza in terms of borders, utilities, resources, taxes, and other such factors. This imbalance cannot continue forever and it will demoralize Israel in the long run if it has not already.
Obviously, the Palestinians, the Arabs, and the Iranians and others will have to make many serious concessions as well before the land is returned.
But a good first step would be to eliminate illegal settlements. I am talking about the illegal settlements -- not ones on lands lawfully annexed to Israel.
Let's give peace a chance. Ultimate Israeli security and prosperity can not be obtained with Palestinians living in squalor and abject poverty. Palestinians won't have a better life if a few among them keep firing rockets at Israel.
Bombing Iranian nuclear installations will set back the Iranian bomb a couple of years, but it makes an Iranian bomb a future certainty. A better way must be found.
A little history is in order. Jordan was part of the historic Palestine mandate and the majority of its citizens are Palestinian. Geographically, it is far larger than Israel and the occupied territories. Abdullah's family was installed by the British, east of the Jordan River in compensation for losing Arabia to the Saudis.
For their part, Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1948 only to lose it to Israel in 1967. The point of this is that there is already a functioning Palestinian state and it is Jordan. If the world were logical, the West Bank would be returned to Jordan which appears to be a real country with a viable government. It seems that the idea of a two state solution for many means two Palestinian states with no room for a Jewish one. (By the way, Jews are forbidden to own land in Jordan and sale of land to Jews in the PA is also verboten. I wonder if the first poster finds that at all troubling.)
But let us face:the jews have not left any land for a viable Palestinian state;"isreal" occupies 100% of Arab historic PAlestin and has already colonized well over 92% of it and mutialted it by cancerous jewish settlements,military roads,an apartheid wall of shame and no Jerusalem, and no contiguity with Gaza.
So where on God's earth is this "viable Palestine state" going to be built??
Only one solution:one secular democratic Palestine for all-nothing else will work.
Israel can do everything asked of it to obtain a 2-State, 22-State, 57-State, or 180-State solution but if it does not include the participation of Iran, its client groups, plus any other of the assorted "Militant Islamic" groups that have declared war on Israel and its citizens, it will all come to naught with Israel still on the receiving end of rockets, bombs, and suicide bombers. Can King Abdullah guarantee that the above groups will accept and follow such agreements?
In Science, one of the ways we solve difficult problems is to consider whether a possible solution is stable, and another is to look backward from a solution to see how we could arive at it.
The only viable, stable, solution is for al of Israel's neighbors to welcome it as a returning long lost relative to live together in peace.
"Now as the setting up of Israel was a hoax perpetrated by the west..." That is patently false.
But then, that is not even what Ahmadinejad has stated. His statements are more to the effect that Iranians question why Israel has come to cause so much suffering to the Arabs of Palestine, and points to its own suffering and fear of extermination as justification for subjugating Arabs in Gaza, the West Bank, and throughout the former mandatory Palestine. In that he raises important questions. Erasing what he identifies as the aggressive Zionist regime from the page of time, is an oft misquoted statement by Kohemeni, certainly not tempered by any appearance of conciliatory diplomacy on the part of Mahmoud.
The experience of Jewish suffering in the Holocaust gave the construction of the State of Israel a great deal of urgency--both in the eyes of Israelis and in the eyes of the great power states which provided, and today continue to provide security guarantees to it.
Svreader makes an extremely important point--that "taking off one's Pyongyang hat" to build trade relationships leads to the best ends. Of course, matters are not as simple as that, contemporary and historical grievances and all. Gandhi said that poverty is the worst form of violence. Violence is so often the fruit of poverty. Addressing poverty defuses a great deal of hatred driven violence.
And I wonder where the Palestinian state is supposed to be. After all the country of Palestine has never been obliterated has it?
Surely the state of Palestine is the country that has existed for thousands of years.
Now as the setting up of Israel was a hoax perpetrated by the west as rightly stated by Ahmedinijad - after all there was no nazi Germany to flee in 1948 was there - and as the west helped the zionist terrorist gangs push 800,000 Palestinians into the sea, how about all the squatters and land thieves living in the West Bank simply go home.
300,000 or so from the US live in the West Bank illegally - they could go home easily.
Over 350,000 non jewish Russians could go home.
British, Australian, Canadian jews could go home.
After all, the vast majority of the world's jews do not live in Israel and are perfectly safe.
Israel wants peace.
We are all children of the children of Abraham.
Cousins shouldn't kill each other.
War is hell. Peace is holy. Only God himself has the right to take a life. Ever. The ultimate sin is to take life in God's name.
LOL! I thought this was going to be a commentary yet again on Obama's slip of the tongue during the campaign. Maybe Obama had Israel on his mind when he "slipped" ...
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
Yessir, it's those darn Jews who are resisting a two-state solution.
The King of Jordan is an enlightened, modern, educated leader that Israel should WIUSE UP and work with.
I'm Jewish. Jews are not allowed to keep an entire race of people in bondage.
The UN resolution giving both Israel and Palestine legitemate sovereignity in the shared capital of Jerusalem must be followed.
Eliminate 100% of settlements and settlers from the West Bank, make east Jerusalem the Palestinian Capital, establish normal economic, and political relationships with 57 Islamic governments.
This is far better than having those governments tolerating Hamas and Islamic Jihaad because it covers them with their public... the current situation.
Only religious fundamentalists and racists want the current situation to continue, or are against the King of Jordan's proposal.
No more religious or ethnic "states" - the racial and religious bigotry we resist in this country shouldn't be codified with our blessing elsewhere on earth. Pakistan and Israel were mistakes made by post-colonial opportunists. The Balkanization of the planet isn't going to be good for us: no religion or tribal identity or degree of pigmentation should determine national rights.
This Idea of two states of Palestine and Israel has been revolving around for a long time. Every time it inches closes to materialize Israeli politicians to win the votes of right wing voters backs off. King Hussein was a smart Arab leader and did a lot for peace between Jordan and Israel, his son now is on his footstep. Born to a British mom he is a peace loving monarch. Peace can be achieved but Israel has to show flexibility in land for peace deal.
The real problem is Israeli domestic political landscape - polarized and becoming ever so *racist* in discussing two-state solution.
The Azkanzi-led period of Israeli politics and its liberal content is long over and burried.
That's why Liberman is on the stage and may be leading the PM by the nose! Because if he deviates from the coalition agreement...there is no government in Israel.
Israel may be comforted from having the formal acceptance of states like Saudi Arabia, if they adopt a peace plan, but in practical terms, it will mean little. But it's a start. Abdullah should realize that Israel will also need time to wait until Iran has its elections. If the current regime wins again, it will be a blow to the peace process because it increases the likelihood that Israel would have to strike Iranian nuclear facilities eventually. No Arab country could be seen as standing by Israel if that happens. The main signal that Israel could give that it is serious about an eventual peace would be to stop expansion of settlements, dismantle outposts, and plow-over some of the cross-connect roads within the West Bank (or at least open up the roads to Palestinian traffic). That would do more to help the peace process than any amount of negotiations, final status or not.
PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions for PostGlobal to Lauren Keane, its editor and producer.
All Comments (45)
Garak
i seem to have inspired you to tell lies. Israel did not carry out massacres. The Arabs expelled Jews from their lands. They were imitating Muhammad, the founding mullah of Islam.
Ask the Arabs who live in Israel if they would like to live alongside their Palestinian Muslim brothers. I have asked them. Their answer is an emphatic "no." The proof of the pudding is in eating it. The Arabs of Israel have tasted their pudding and they do want the Palestinians to spoil it.
April 25, 2009 11:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 23:18
While no supporter of Netanyahu or our current government, I have to wonder which two states the Jordanian king is referring to. Israel must be one of them, since he's talking about us. But which is the other one? Is it the one represented by Arafat's only crony, Abbas, working out of Ramallah in the West Bank or the one controlled by Hamas located in Gaza? Since these two are politically and philosophically opposed to one another and have, of late, been engaged in quite lethal violence to supress the other on their respective home turfs, the question of what the kings means is far from academic. At the moment then, Netenyahu gets my support for his policy, if only because there really is no Palestinian peace partner. Ze'ev
April 25, 2009 5:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 17:39
I have a great deal of respect for the Dictator of Jordan. Despite all of the anti Israel and antisemitic hatred in the responses a simple fact has been forgotten.
If the Arabs were to lay down their arms against Israel there would be peace between Israel and it's neighbors. If the Israeli's were to lay down their arms a horrible massacre would take place.
If you don't believe me ask Hamas and Hiz b'allah
April 25, 2009 3:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 15:35
The prevailing atmosphere of revenge and hatred obscures simple fact, Israel lives on, good and beautiful.
How about making something of similar nature for Arab constituency? Any advises?
April 25, 2009 3:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 15:02
Security for Israel:Justice for Palestine. That is the only formula I would support if America asks me to send my children and grandchildren off to fight in the Middle East.
President Obama must know that "we won't go"( to borrow the chant from the 60's)as long as the Palestinian people suffer under apartheid.
How many Palestinian refugees are there in the Middle East, living in various camps?
April 25, 2009 12:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 12:52
President Obama needs to do two things to bring peace in the Middle East: prosecute AIPAC and other parasite jewish lobby groups for espionage including traitors like Jane Harman; and tell Nethanyahu no more US aid and arms. Israel is a rich country by Western standards, and there is no reason why the US continues to provide almost $1000 annually to every Israeli citizen. The reason aid continues is due the power of the Jewish lobby backed by wealthy jews. We voted for Obama, not the jewish lobby which conspired to torpedo his election every step. Obama has no need to obey the dictates of the jewish lobby. If Obama gets tough with these parasites, he will be reelected by a bigger margin.
April 25, 2009 12:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 12:47
It's so clear what Israel has to give up. A Palestinian state run by Hamas will emerge. The Golan will have to be returned to Syria, the refugee camps holding 1.5 million people will simply be allowed to move back into Israel proper.
Gaza and the West Bank will be connected right through Israel displacing many Israelis and creating a security nightmare . All this for what??? What type of recognition are we talking about? Arab leaders won't even visit Israel to negotiate a peace deal. These Arab countries cannot even treat their own people with dignity.
April 25, 2009 10:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 10:27
King Abdullah is presenting Israel with an offer that cannot be refused if Israel really wants peace with its arab neighbors. However, Israel does not appear to want peace with its arab neighbors for several reasons: 1) Israel is committed to expanding its borders to include all of Palestinian land, as well as lebanon and Syria. 2) Israel profits financially from conflict with its arab neighbors-- uses Gaza is a cash cow, receives annual shipments of sophistcated weapons from the US that cost millions of dollars along with intelligence. 3)Conflict is a tool for soliciting charitable contributions from US and around the world. 4)Israel has an exceptionally close relationship with the US because of its conflict with arab neighbors.
It will be interesting to read Israel's justification for not accepting King Abdullah's offer, but Israel will come up with something. In any case, Israel's rejection of King Abdullah's offer should dispel all illusions that Israel wants to live in peace with its arab neighbor neighbors.
April 25, 2009 9:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 09:17
Netanyahu was the Israeli participant in the flawed Oslo Agreements thus supports a two state solution.That was when the Palestinians were homogeneous. Now we have two irreconcilables, Fatah and Hamas. One committed to a two state solution and the other committed to the eradication of Israel. A reading of the Hamas Covenant reveals:
1.Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
2.The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
mooting Ignatius opinion of Netanyahu.
April 25, 2009 7:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 07:37
Abdullah and Raina, the 2 pretty lil poster children for what a good Ayrab should be know their catechism well and recite it very nicely indeed.
Their pocket money keeps coming if they keep all the Washington Aunties and Uncles happy and nothing makes the Aunties and Uncles in Washington happy than 2 state solution, reconciliation, solving The Mid east.
Bibi also knows his catechism well and knows how to make so called Friendly Ayrab leaders happy.
Ya can have a Palestinian state in Idaho, Texas or Hamburg, ya can't have one in Israel. Oh and as for Jordan's Abdullah, he IS the Palestinian state but he is too scared of them after the chaos they created for his Daddy.
April 25, 2009 3:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 03:41
The king's rationale has a fundamental flaw: that Israelis want to play by the rules of the international community and or be a responsible member of a world system. And I wonder who had let the Israelis think that they could be different, exceptional or just a spoilt childish system of chaos?
April 25, 2009 3:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 03:28
I think what King Abdullah states is eminently reasonable and productive and encouraging...and I sense that it is rooted in sincerity. Human beings must interact with each other predicated on mutual respect in order to overcome historical inequities and differences. Debating history, and/or militarism and conflict will never solve problems."A journey of a thousand miles, begins with just one step"..I pray that we can find the strength and wisdom to take that first step together, with good will and create mutual trust for the betterment of mankind. Can you imagine how wonderful the middle-east would be if Israel and its neighbours pooled its' resources for the prosperity and peaceful co-existence of all of its' inhabitants? Halevi..Inshala...Catuv..Machtub! Respect...and empathy is essential..
April 25, 2009 2:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2009 02:14
Dave, Dave Dave..... I've been reading your columns for 9+ years, now, and you generally seem like a decent guy. I don't always agree with you, but every time I read your stuff I find it hard to discern whether or not you're speaking from your heart or just saying what your zionist puppet-masters at "The Post" want you to say, in order to keep your job. If, as I suspect, the latter is true, I think you should take a good long walk and realize that you're not doing yourself, us readers, justice, truth or your soul any good by staying where you are. Start your own web-site. I'll be the first to pay you to tell THE TRUTH. It ain't much, but I'm willing to bet there are a LOT of "Post" readers who are sick and tired of reading nonsense designed to deflect the ugly truth from the most racist and lying regime EVER: Israel.
April 24, 2009 10:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 22:25
As the country’s first Prime Minister Polish born David Ben-Gurion infamously proclaimed,
"We must do everything to insure they [the Palestinians] never do return...The old will die and the young will forget."
“To maintain the status quo will not do. We have to set up a dynamic state bent upon expansion.”Relinquishing conquered territory, ending occupation, halting further settlement activity (let alone dismantling existing ones), stopping home demolitions or anything deemed to conflict with this fundamental objective will never be (seriously) considered.
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
.
April 24, 2009 10:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 22:22
The catastrophe of the Palestinian people could have been mitigated tremendously had it not been for the ignorance of the whole Arab people. The Palestinians’ big mistake was the faith they placed in the Arab leaders’ promises. The Arabs in general had failed to correctly assess the geopolitical map of the modern world. They tried to displace a modern nation with the mentality of the Middle Ages. They had only recently (1917) come out from under 5 centuries of utter subjugation , oppression and impoverishment by the even more backward Turks. Those were the same years when most of the rest of the world advanced from the Dark Age into the Industrial Age. Even today those 23 Arab countries along with the other 34 Muslim countries pay only lip service to the Palestinians , at best because they are impotent, and at worse because they could care less.
April 24, 2009 10:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 22:11
More history: The Arab League post-1967 told Jordan to drop its claim on the West Bank and Jerusalem in order to further the cause not of a Palestinian/Israeli two state solution but a two Palestinian state solution. Without the support of the Arab League, Jordan no longer sought the return of the West Bank. That's a shame.
April 24, 2009 9:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 21:27
There is no solution to this, only ultimate ruin and disaster as in the historic parallel of the Crusader States. This is because the US has no effective power to restrain Israel. To be an elective official in this country requires slavish adherence to Zionism.
Example: Sec. Clinton could say no more that more and more annexations and colonization of Palestinian land was "unhelpful". How simply pathetic is this? But that is reality.
April 24, 2009 9:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 21:23
When I first read the title, I thought that Obama still was under the impression that the United States had 57 states because he stated that he had visited 57 states during the coampaign.
April 24, 2009 9:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 21:20
Israel is a racist state that has instituted an apartheid against the Palestinian people. Their recent attack on Gaza complete with the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent civilians and wholesale destruction of their critical infrastructure was no less horrifying than the collective punishment of Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. The United States should present Israel with a simple ultimatum: move back to the 1967 borders and close all settlements (racist gated communities) or US aid will halt entirely. I am disgusted that my tax dollars are used to arm the Israelis so they can pursue their brutal apartheid and steal land.
April 24, 2009 9:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 21:07
We had a Palestinian state. It was called Jordan. What happened to it was that, Israel took half of it, and won't give it back.
April 24, 2009 8:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 20:57
Palestine and Israel: one-state or two-state solution
The success or failure of the administration of President Obama with Israel would determine the nature of future stability for the Middle East.
Any rational and humanistic resolution of Palestinian dilemma has been non-starter with Israel. The problems of Palestinian subjugation to Israel occupation are the seeds for an unstable world including the Middle East. Many expect, as previously stated by Iran and many Arab counties, that they would not reject a reasonable break through between Washington and Israel over the Palestinians home state or a Federal State for both people.
The Palestinian issue, over 40 years of baffling by Israel throwing one excuse after another to derail any prospect, is independent of any other world concern for the US administration. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton should not allow Israel to dictate the foreign policy of the United States. Israel has used Iran as diversion away from creation of an independent Palestinian state.
What are the options for Palestinian and Israeli people? Among those mostly discussed are: a two-state models for Palestine and Israel, or a Federal State of Israel-Palestine
The two-state models for Palestinian and Israeli is not acceptable with Israel. Many experts on the Middle Eastern politics and people would suggest that a two-state solution in not viable model. We have struggled with it for nearly 60 years.
Should we be looking at the region as a Federal States with one government elected by all of the people? This model may have a much better chance of survival as a solution for both Israeli and Arabs.
USA can’t afford war after war to support failed attempts to stabilize the region. Palestinians have paid a high price for failed attempts to consider the human side of the Palestinians struggle for peaceful life.
Many suggest that only as one nation, Federal State of Israel-Palestine, the peace may endure. We, Americans, have failed to recognize that Palestinians and Jews both are Semitic people, they have common historical and religious heritage.
The advocates for one-state solution stress that under a two-state solution, Jerusalem can not be the capital of Israel. This city is religious holy city belonging to Jews, Muslims and Christians. This city should not be controlled by a theocratic Jewish state; in that case, it should be an open international city.
April 24, 2009 7:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 19:59
I vey much admire the Kind of Jordan...
but wonder whether most decent nations of the world could be delivered to relagions with constantly warring
barbarian Israel.
Particularly when Americans and others find that the whole torture thing thing here was the neocon's gig... to tie Osama to Iraq...to get us to war. Which they did.
Who wants to partner with a government headed by
the Netanyahoo with his fetid and terrorist history as long as any in the modern world. Only Sharon, Israel's beloved Sharon, was worrse.
April 24, 2009 7:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 19:07
The only path to a two state solution is for the United States to pressure Israel to stop building settlements and to remove existing illegal settlements. Israel could still control the land as a bargaining chip, but there would be no Israeli population on those lands.
This will have the following beneficial effects:
1. end the interactions between Palestianians and the Israeli settlers and the Israeli military tasked with protecting the settlers. This would lower the level of friction somewhat.
2. end the dream of some Israelis of a "greater Israel" that includes the settlements. While it persists, the clinging to the hope of a greater Israeli is a barrier to peace.
3. reduce the influence of the settlers on Israel politics. The settlers include many violent extremists. Many of them beleive their actions are willed by God and God gave them the settlement lands. This faction needs to be diluted or peace will never occur.
4. undermine the view of many Palestinians that Israel is occupying the land merely to try to take it.
If you include the West Bank and Gaza, Israel has been ruling over a population that is only 50% Jewish for over 50 years. It still effect governs Gaza in terms of borders, utilities, resources, taxes, and other such factors. This imbalance cannot continue forever and it will demoralize Israel in the long run if it has not already.
Obviously, the Palestinians, the Arabs, and the Iranians and others will have to make many serious concessions as well before the land is returned.
But a good first step would be to eliminate illegal settlements. I am talking about the illegal settlements -- not ones on lands lawfully annexed to Israel.
April 24, 2009 6:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 18:57
Let's give peace a chance. Ultimate Israeli security and prosperity can not be obtained with Palestinians living in squalor and abject poverty. Palestinians won't have a better life if a few among them keep firing rockets at Israel.
Bombing Iranian nuclear installations will set back the Iranian bomb a couple of years, but it makes an Iranian bomb a future certainty. A better way must be found.
April 24, 2009 6:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 18:33
A little history is in order. Jordan was part of the historic Palestine mandate and the majority of its citizens are Palestinian. Geographically, it is far larger than Israel and the occupied territories. Abdullah's family was installed by the British, east of the Jordan River in compensation for losing Arabia to the Saudis.
For their part, Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1948 only to lose it to Israel in 1967. The point of this is that there is already a functioning Palestinian state and it is Jordan. If the world were logical, the West Bank would be returned to Jordan which appears to be a real country with a viable government. It seems that the idea of a two state solution for many means two Palestinian states with no room for a Jewish one. (By the way, Jews are forbidden to own land in Jordan and sale of land to Jews in the PA is also verboten. I wonder if the first poster finds that at all troubling.)
April 24, 2009 6:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 18:07
Undoubtedly the King is very sincere.
But let us face:the jews have not left any land for a viable Palestinian state;"isreal" occupies 100% of Arab historic PAlestin and has already colonized well over 92% of it and mutialted it by cancerous jewish settlements,military roads,an apartheid wall of shame and no Jerusalem, and no contiguity with Gaza.
So where on God's earth is this "viable Palestine state" going to be built??
Only one solution:one secular democratic Palestine for all-nothing else will work.
April 24, 2009 5:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 17:11
Israel can do everything asked of it to obtain a 2-State, 22-State, 57-State, or 180-State solution but if it does not include the participation of Iran, its client groups, plus any other of the assorted "Militant Islamic" groups that have declared war on Israel and its citizens, it will all come to naught with Israel still on the receiving end of rockets, bombs, and suicide bombers. Can King Abdullah guarantee that the above groups will accept and follow such agreements?
April 24, 2009 4:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 16:05
King Abdullah --
A peaceful middle east could become the greatest economic success story the world has ever seen.
Lets join together to end poverty and pain.
So many people, on all sides, suffer so much, so needlessly.
Instead of building weapons, let's work together build trust.
Lets work together to build decent housing for every man, woman, and child in the middle east.
Lets work together to make sure that no man, woman, or child in the middle east ever dies from violence or poverty.
Lets work together to make sure that every child in the middle east has the chance to live to have children, and grandchildren, of their own.
We are not God.
Only God has the right to take a human life. Ever.
God does not want us to kill in his name.
Thst is what he told Abraham.
That is our common bond.
There is no greater sin than to kill in God's name.
Only God has the right to take a life, ever.
We cannot escape these two facts, no matter how hard we try.
The insanity of war between Arab and Jew is beyond description.
.
April 24, 2009 3:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 15:37
In Science, one of the ways we solve difficult problems is to consider whether a possible solution is stable, and another is to look backward from a solution to see how we could arive at it.
The only viable, stable, solution is for al of Israel's neighbors to welcome it as a returning long lost relative to live together in peace.
April 24, 2009 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 15:15
"Now as the setting up of Israel was a hoax perpetrated by the west..." That is patently false.
But then, that is not even what Ahmadinejad has stated. His statements are more to the effect that Iranians question why Israel has come to cause so much suffering to the Arabs of Palestine, and points to its own suffering and fear of extermination as justification for subjugating Arabs in Gaza, the West Bank, and throughout the former mandatory Palestine. In that he raises important questions. Erasing what he identifies as the aggressive Zionist regime from the page of time, is an oft misquoted statement by Kohemeni, certainly not tempered by any appearance of conciliatory diplomacy on the part of Mahmoud.
The experience of Jewish suffering in the Holocaust gave the construction of the State of Israel a great deal of urgency--both in the eyes of Israelis and in the eyes of the great power states which provided, and today continue to provide security guarantees to it.
April 24, 2009 3:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 15:01
Svreader makes an extremely important point--that "taking off one's Pyongyang hat" to build trade relationships leads to the best ends. Of course, matters are not as simple as that, contemporary and historical grievances and all. Gandhi said that poverty is the worst form of violence. Violence is so often the fruit of poverty. Addressing poverty defuses a great deal of hatred driven violence.
April 24, 2009 2:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 14:51
And I wonder where the Palestinian state is supposed to be. After all the country of Palestine has never been obliterated has it?
Surely the state of Palestine is the country that has existed for thousands of years.
Now as the setting up of Israel was a hoax perpetrated by the west as rightly stated by Ahmedinijad - after all there was no nazi Germany to flee in 1948 was there - and as the west helped the zionist terrorist gangs push 800,000 Palestinians into the sea, how about all the squatters and land thieves living in the West Bank simply go home.
300,000 or so from the US live in the West Bank illegally - they could go home easily.
Over 350,000 non jewish Russians could go home.
British, Australian, Canadian jews could go home.
After all, the vast majority of the world's jews do not live in Israel and are perfectly safe.
April 24, 2009 2:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 14:50
If a visitor from the future were to come back in time, they'd marvel at the lunacy of war between Arabs and Jews.
We are cousins. We both have somewhat of a reputation for being talented in business.
Somehow we forgot all that.
When Israel was founded, Arabs shouldn't have shouted "Infidel!"
They should have thought "Customers!"
Its better to sell a man a fish than to sleep with them.
April 24, 2009 2:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 14:30
Well, it took Nixon to go to China.
Perhaps, it will take Netanyahu to establish a Palestinian state.
You need the credentials to make the bold moves, and not be called an appeaser.
April 24, 2009 2:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 14:20
Israel wants peace.
We are all children of the children of Abraham.
Cousins shouldn't kill each other.
War is hell. Peace is holy. Only God himself has the right to take a life. Ever. The ultimate sin is to take life in God's name.
April 24, 2009 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 14:01
what important states DO NOT recognize israel? And how does that fact affect isreal?
April 24, 2009 1:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 13:46
LOL! I thought this was going to be a commentary yet again on Obama's slip of the tongue during the campaign. Maybe Obama had Israel on his mind when he "slipped" ...
April 24, 2009 1:25 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 13:25
From the Hamas charter:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
Yessir, it's those darn Jews who are resisting a two-state solution.
April 24, 2009 1:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 13:22
The King of Jordan is an enlightened, modern, educated leader that Israel should WIUSE UP and work with.
I'm Jewish. Jews are not allowed to keep an entire race of people in bondage.
The UN resolution giving both Israel and Palestine legitemate sovereignity in the shared capital of Jerusalem must be followed.
Eliminate 100% of settlements and settlers from the West Bank, make east Jerusalem the Palestinian Capital, establish normal economic, and political relationships with 57 Islamic governments.
This is far better than having those governments tolerating Hamas and Islamic Jihaad because it covers them with their public... the current situation.
Only religious fundamentalists and racists want the current situation to continue, or are against the King of Jordan's proposal.
April 24, 2009 1:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 13:11
BLUESKIESTRAVEL:
I'm confused. Was Yasir Arafat a right wing Israeli politician??
April 24, 2009 1:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 13:04
No more religious or ethnic "states" - the racial and religious bigotry we resist in this country shouldn't be codified with our blessing elsewhere on earth. Pakistan and Israel were mistakes made by post-colonial opportunists. The Balkanization of the planet isn't going to be good for us: no religion or tribal identity or degree of pigmentation should determine national rights.
We never learn, liberal or conservative.
April 24, 2009 12:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 12:56
This Idea of two states of Palestine and Israel has been revolving around for a long time. Every time it inches closes to materialize Israeli politicians to win the votes of right wing voters backs off. King Hussein was a smart Arab leader and did a lot for peace between Jordan and Israel, his son now is on his footstep. Born to a British mom he is a peace loving monarch. Peace can be achieved but Israel has to show flexibility in land for peace deal.
April 24, 2009 12:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 12:45
The real problem is Israeli domestic political landscape - polarized and becoming ever so *racist* in discussing two-state solution.
The Azkanzi-led period of Israeli politics and its liberal content is long over and burried.
That's why Liberman is on the stage and may be leading the PM by the nose! Because if he deviates from the coalition agreement...there is no government in Israel.
April 24, 2009 11:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 11:45
Israel may be comforted from having the formal acceptance of states like Saudi Arabia, if they adopt a peace plan, but in practical terms, it will mean little. But it's a start. Abdullah should realize that Israel will also need time to wait until Iran has its elections. If the current regime wins again, it will be a blow to the peace process because it increases the likelihood that Israel would have to strike Iranian nuclear facilities eventually. No Arab country could be seen as standing by Israel if that happens. The main signal that Israel could give that it is serious about an eventual peace would be to stop expansion of settlements, dismantle outposts, and plow-over some of the cross-connect roads within the West Bank (or at least open up the roads to Palestinian traffic). That would do more to help the peace process than any amount of negotiations, final status or not.
April 24, 2009 11:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 11:41
He has the hallmarks of becoming like his father - a true statesman. Wishing him luck in his brave endeavor.
April 24, 2009 11:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 24, 2009 11:37