Force and violence are such patriarchal methods to approach conflict and disputes that it amounts to an international crisis when it occurs between two different nations.

Diplomacy, not violence, is the mark of statesmanship in politics, domestic or international, in public or in the privacy of a home.

Politicians and preachers apparently forget the unique wisdom of the christian passage that claims that violence begets violence. What could possibly be the outcome otherwise?

Or, paraphrased as offense begets defense, it makes sense of the wisdom of human non-violence as human relations. It's questionable whether force and violence is appropriate for dealing with anything or anyone, object, tool, animal, or human. Reduced to using force or violence "to win," necessarily subjects an opponent to the indignity and lack of respect that is the basis of such malignant and malformed philosophy of self righteousness. It is master-servant attitude, not the social justice of equals.

MY PEACE PLAN
1. Give the Kurds independence. They deserve it, but make a contract with them that they will be good global citizens.
2. Reward Turkey for letting their Kurds go with entry of rest Turkey into EU.
3. Reward Iran for letting their Kurds go with Shia areas of Iraq and parts of Western Afghanistan if they want them.
5. Divide rest Afghanistan and give areas to their neighbours China, Pakistan, Turkmenistan etc.
6. Give what is left of Iraq (after Kurds went independent and Shia areas went to Iran) to Syria if they acknowledge that is a reward for respecting Israel's and Libanon's sovereignty.
This should separate those peoples who cannot live with each other and eliminate incessant hostilities. This plan deletes Iraq and Afghanistan who do not deserve to be sovereign countries because they are incapable of being good citizens.
A process should then be developed by which a country can forfeit sovereignty, or the warfare with its immense greenhouse gas pollution, will never stop. Deleting Iraq and Afghanistan from the map needs to be done before, though, because with these countries, we cannot afford to wait. The next candidates for forfeiting sovereignty are on the horn of Africa.

moho the child rapist started the hate for the jews. the fool expected them to bow down to him and proclaim him the missah. they said no and about every time the rapist talks about jews its to say to kill them because they deserve it, or so he thought.
im all for carpet bombing, it works really well. it kills anyone under it. you have not lived until you feel the ground shake as 10 b52's dump over 1,000 bombs at one time. the sight is fantastic. being under it is pure hell.

here is how islam is different from all other religions - islamics say that all their conduct, their hate, murder, torture, all of it is done with the blessing and demands of their god. no other religion demands it.
so i am scum? i have been killing everyone not islamic for 1400 years? oups that is islam! if i am a bigot for saying the truth about islam, are islamics bigots for hating anyone not islamic? YOU BET!
and i have had my war and im still alive.

Hey Frank

Go to Iraq. Fight there. Let what happens, happen. You are the scum of the earth, and you are the problem with this country. We will be better off without you. And dont worry you ignorent white trash idiot: im not an "islamic," im a good american like yourself. Go straight to hell.

Hey Frank

Go to Iraq. Fight there. Let what happens, happen. You are the scum of the earth, and you are the problem with this country. We will be better off without you. And dont worry you ignorent white trash idiot: im not an "islamic," im a good american like yourself. Go straight to hell.

Still, I don't see how Islamists, Zionists, and Right-wing Americans are truly different.

Their excuses and labels are different, but they all have done similar things.

It should be realized that all should honestly look within for their own faults, and try to live up to their own ideals.

That said, Israel is not going to be pushed into the sea. It's never going to happen. Palestinians aren't going to accept their displacement without some real compromise by the Israelis. Islamic societies will never thrive without accepting modernity and religious tolerance for differing ideas. And when America starts immoral wars, it will never be a good decision, because it is against the character of its ideals.

And innocent people are suffering at the hands of ideological, heartless, ruthless leaders on all sides.

If Palestine question didn't exist, the Islamists would have to invent it.

Mr. Frank Collins is dead wrong on the role of carpet bombing.

The damage done by carpet bombing is debatable - the raids were mostly off target and for all the damage done, the facilities were rebuilt and most importantly, it raised morale of citizens for the facists.

Ultimately, it was the slow ground warfare campaign that finally ended the war once and for all.

you wrote:

Civility and nonviolent conflict resolution have been thrown out the window and a winner-takes-all battle cry has replaced dialogue.

to do that islam would have to dump more than 100 verses of the koran, including that part that tells them to lie.

im not worried about the west - they are not saying that god told them to do it, as islam is.
they have not spent 1400 years trying to force their religion on us.
and they are not doing it now, islam is.
now answer one of my questions, you islamics never seem to do that.
tell me in what context these commands of the koran are acceptable.
The Hadith No. 284, The Muslim, volume one, says that any Jew or Christian, who heard of Muhammad but did not convert to Islam, and died in disbelief, would rot in hell! Thus Islam withdraws from all Jews and Christians the right to believe in their faiths, and practice them as such.
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)
Here those Jews and Christians, who spurn Islam, have been lumped together with the idolators such as the Hindus, and classified as 'the worst of creatures'. Therefore the Koran commands:
"O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..." (V: The Table: 60)
"The true believers say: Has not God ordered a chapter that commands the holy war" (Sura 47:22); or elsewhere: "Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, imprison them, besiege them, ambush them" (Sura 9:5); and, "Make war on unbelievers" (Sura 9:29). "When you come upon unbelievers, massacre them, tighten the bands of the captives that you will have taken. Then you will set them free, or you will release them for a ransom" (Sura 8:57).
"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:57). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:37).
"Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:22). THIS ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE PEACE SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE WAR AGAIN LATER.
4.89": They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
"4.90": Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
"4.91": You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority."

Frank,

Of course, the Islamic extremists & their fanatical religious ignorance and violence, annoy the hell out of alot people, but moral superiority isn't an excuse for violence.

What about Western European Civillization?

Invaded, conquest, and genocide of all of North America, South America, the Carribbean, and Australia.

Massive slavery programs, and colonization of parts of Africa.
If you count Germany as part of Western civillization (of course), then the Holocaust also on the record.
Some colonies in Asia.
Forced opium/narcotics trade upon Asia.
Conquest of Hawaii & the Phillipines (including a massacre of Balangiga).
Jim Crow and institutional racism.
The firebombing and nuking of Japan (hundreds of thousands of civillians killed).
Some massacres of civillians during the Korean War.
Millions killed in Vietnam, including by burning of villages by ground troops, torture (such as Operation Phoenix), and massacre (ie: My Lai, and many, many undocumented incidents).
Millions killed in illegal bombing, covert, and military activities in Laos & Cambodia.
Colonization of Palestine by Western European/American Jews.
Covert programs overthrowing of democratically elected, left leaning leaders in Central and South America.
Covert overthrow of Democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, Mosaddeq -- because of oil.
Selling arms and possibly chemical weapons to both Iraq and Iran during their bloody (millions+ killed) war.
Invasion of Iraq.

See a pattern here too?

The problem is that territoriality, greed, evil, ignorance, and the other general nastiness of human behavior are universal.

Why don't all these groups learn their lesson, repent, and stop their nastiness.

Love the Constitution and American Ideals, that's the America we all love, not the militaristic, sneakily exploitative, ignorant, greedy, cunningly evil/cynical nastiness, initiated by the special interests and corrupt politicians.

ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM. LOOK AT HOW ISLAM HAS BEEN AT WAR FOR 1400 YEARS - AND YOU WANT TO BLAME INFIDELS FOR THIS?

Throughout the world, there are people, mostly insecure males, who pump their fists or shoot their into the air for violence and war. They apparently wouldn't care less if they would push a button to blow up an innocent family somewhere on the other side of the globe, if it somehow proved some convoluted egocentric point of theirs.

Perhaps it results because they can't control their overriding genetic animal urges: territoriality, controlling women, power, pride, feeling macho, feeling empowered by weapons & military prowess, etc...

So they want to invade and control other territories, and feel like the dominant alpha male by stocking up on weapons and demand respect from others by intimidation -- from the high-tech weapons of modern countries to the AK-47's of the poor countries.
The smarter neanderthals make smarter, more crafty & cunning rationalizations for their domination and violence. The less advanced ones are stuck with their less sophisticated and more irrational excuses.

It's almost incomprehensible how these neanderthals think and feel as real human beings. But in the context of understanding animal behavior, it is all very consistant and easy to understand.

It's almost funny, in a pathetic way.

There are everywhere among us in our own societies. From the rednecks who wanted to invade Iraq ('cuz they look Arab just like Osama), even though they really know (but deny) that Saddam's Iraq had nothing to do with 911, WMD, and an Al Queda threat, to the Islamist versions of these ignorant rednecks in the Middle East, to the extreme Zionists who do want to manipulate the US to fight and bleed for their own cause.

For the rational, reasonable human beings, who are open to reason, cooperation, and sharing, our problems stem from these testosterone over-dosed hyperflaggellating cro-magnons.

The only beneficiary from the ugly war in Iraq is AIPAC and Israel against the national interests of this country and at the expense of the blood of our brave soldiers and the money of our taxpayers.Sometimes I wonder if we are really independent as we seem to be fully controlled from within by some malicious power centers whose only goal is to serve the interests of Israel even against the national interests of this great country.

In the early stages of World War I, in 1915 Russian armies advanced on islamic Turkey from the north and the British attempted an invasion from the Mediterranean. Citing the threat of internal rebellion, the islamic Ottoman government ordered large-scale roundups, deportations, and systematic torture and murder of christian Armenians beginning in the spring of 1915. Estimates vary from 600,000 to 2 million deaths out of the prewar population of about 3 million Armenians. By 1917 fewer than 200,000 Armenians remained in Turkey.

and im the war monger and islam is just so peaceful.

630AD: Arabia, Mohammed moves against Mecca and conquers it. War with the Hawazin. Rapid spread of Islam. The Ka'aba in Mecca, a repository of idols, is cleansed of idols and becomes a building deeply revered by Moslems.

632AD: Death of Mohammed. The Prophet's successor is his father-in-law, Abu Bakr (Abu Bekr) who is chosen Caliph, or representative, and pursues an expansionist policy. Persians are expelled from Bahrein. An army under Khalid sets out against the Byzantine Empire. An Arab army moves up the south coast of Palestine and takes Gaza. Abu Bakr reduces a revolt in Nejd and Yemen, and defends Medina.
634AD: Moslem conquest of Yemen.

635AD: Islam: Moslem capture of Damascus. by 636 are added conquests of Emesa, Heliopolis, Chalcis, Beroae, Edessa, Battle of Yermuk. Heraclius abandons Syria to the Moslems.

636AD: Kingdom of Ghassan (300-636AD): Founded about 300AD by Thalaba, the first to take the name of king. His successors rule until 636, when Djabala VI surrenders to the Mohammedans.

637AD: Arabia: Middle East, Battle of Cadesia, or Kadisiya, Moslem victory over the Persians. Omar captures Jerusalem, then Aleppo and Antioch.

637AD and later: Moslem missionary expansionism had meant that Moslems had intervened at Jerusalem from 637AD. Moslems, partly due to their existing maritime skills, were actually invited into Portugal to help with problems by 711. Later they occupied Toledo. They were on Crete by 826, taking the island from the Byzantines, another obviously maritime adventure. Moslems had intervened in Sind (India) by the early Eighth Century, but they did not dominate Northern India till the Eleventh Century.

637AD: Sasanid power in Iran is broken by Moslem Arabs.

638AD: Mesopotamia is conquered by Islam who also take Tarsus and Diar-Bekr.

639AD: Invasion of Egypt by Moslem, Amru.

To 640AD: Arab forces take Palestinian cities such as Dara, Caesarea, Antioch, the isthmus of Suez. Iraq was taken by 637AD. In 639, Egypt was invaded by Moslem Arabs. In 641, Babylon (Old Cairo) was taken. Alexandria was recaptured in 645. By 700AD, Roman Africa was under Moslem control.

640AD: Islam, The Arabs invade Egypt and burn the library of Alexandria . However, the Arabs preserve the use of engineering skills known in Egypt at the time, while Europe remains ignorant.

610AD-641AD: Emperor Heraclius fails to stem the Arab threat and loses Africa, Spain and Northern Italy.

641AD: Islam: Battle of Nehavend, great victory for Islam over Persians, and many Persian nobility come to terms with Islam. Yezdegerd the king flees to a remote corner and holds a vestige of power till about 651-652. Alexandria is captured.

642AD: Islamic invasion of Egypt.

644AD: Islam: Death of Omar succeeded by Othman, a weak ruler who allows Islamic power to fall into the hands of the Koreish nobility.

647AD: Islam: Invasion of Africa by Abdallah, Arabs expel the Romans.

649AD: Islam: Invasion of Cyprus in 649, Conquest of Aradus in 650, Conquest of Armenia in 652, Conquest of Rhodes in 654, in 655 is defeat of emperor Constans by Mohammedans in naval battle off Mt Phoenix in Lycia.

Circa 650AD: Revelations of Mohammed are written; they become The Koran.

656AD: Islam: Murder of Othman by a party in opposition to growing worldliness of Islam. Leader of the opposition, and son-in-law of Mohammed the Prophet, is Ali, who succeeds. Battle of the Camel. Moawiyah, governor of Syria, heads the opponents of Ali, and incites them to revenge.

657AD: Islam: Ali invades northern Syria. Battle of Siffin. The theocratic faction rebels against Ali.

658AD: Islam: Decision of the Umpires, Ali and Moawiyah, the latter wins. Peace made with the Byzantine Empire. Egypt conquered for Moawiyah.

659: Islam: Moslem conquest of Egypt.

661-750AD: The Moslem Omayyads rule in Damascus, Syria.

662-663AD: Islam: Great invasion of Asia Minor. Death of Amru.

668AD: Islam: Islam advances to Chalcedon and holds Amorium for a time.

669AD: Islam: Great invasion of Sicily. In 670, foundation of Kairwan.

670AD: Moslem conquest of Kabul (Afghanistan).

673-677AD: Islam: Mohammedans besiege Constantinople but are driven off by Greek fire.

677AD: Islamic world: Siege of Constantinople.

691AD: Islam, In Jerusalem, The Dome of the Rock is completed for Caliph Abdul-Malik.

697AD: Sweeping Arab Moslems capture Tunisia, a state with parts of Algeria.

697-698AD: Islam, Hassan invades Africa, takes Carthage.

709AD: Islam, Conquest of Tyana.

711AD: Islam: Invasion of Spain at instigation of Julian, governor of Ceuta. Battle of Xerxes. Tarik destroyed the Visigothic Kingdom.

711AD: Islam, Moslem forces occupy Spain. By 717, Moslem forces are trying to take Constantinople.

711AD: Tariq ibn Ziyad lands at Gibraltar, begins Moorish conquest of Spain.

711AD: Omayyads conquer Sind and found first Moslem state in India.

711-712AD: Islam: Arab and Berber armies cross the Strait of Gibraltar, Africa to Spain. The Moors are the Mauri, a Berber people based at Cordoba, hence the name, Moors.

712AD: Islam, Mohammedans take Antioch in Pisidia. Great success for Moslem generals Kotaiba and Muhammed b. Kasim in Asia.

716AD: Islam: Mohammedans invade Asia Minor, siege of Amorium, the town is relieved by Leo the Isaurian.

717AD: Islam: Siege of Pergamus, siege of Constantinople.

718AD: Islam: Repulse of the Mohammedans from Constantinople, in revenge the Caliph excludes all Christians from servants of the state.

721AD: Islam: Death of Ibn Muhallab in battle. Mohammedans cross the Pyrenees and capture Narbonne, France, but are defeated at Toulouse, and they retire under Abd ar-Rahman.

725AD: Islamic armies have moved up the Rhone River.

726AD: Islam: Mohammedans invade Cappadocia.

732AD: "Islam versus Europe": Battle of Tours in France.

732AD: Charles Martel (the grandfather of Charlemagne) stops the advance of Moslems between Poitiers and Tours.

734AD: Islam, Mohammedan invasion of Asia Minor.

739AD: Islam, Byzantine victory at Acroinon.

746AD: Islam: Mohammedan invasion of Cyprus.

751AD: Arabs win Battle of River Talas, central Asia; Islam comes to China.

755AD: Islam, Spain is lost to the Abbasids.

756-757AD: Islam, Invasion of Asia Minor, capture of Malatiya, defeat of the Byzantines in Cilicia.

775AD: Islam, Continued invasion of Asia Minor.

776AD: Islam, Destruction of Charlemagne's army at Roncesvalles, on its return from the invasion to restore Hosein to power in Spain.

780AD: Islam, Capture of Semaluos by Harun ar-Rashid. In Spain, capture of Saragossa, Hosein is taken and executed.

788AD: Islam, Spain, Death of Abd ar-Rahman. HIs son and appointed heir, Hisham I, succeeds. He proclaims a holy war and finishes the mosque of Cordova.

789AD: Islam, Arabs invade Rumania.

792AD: Islamic invasion of Southern France, from Spain.

807AD: Islam: Spain, After continual disorder in Toledo, Al-Hakim massacres the chief citizens. Resistance is abandoned.

815AD: Islam: Spain, Rising in Cordova against Moslems put down with great cruelty. Exile of the inhabitants who go to Africa.

829AD: Islam: Mohammedans from Africa invade Sicily, take Palermo.

831AD: Islam: Mohammedans being long invasion of Asia Minor.

832AD: Islam: Capture of Heraclea. In Spain in 832, Toledo rebels against Moslem rule and is suppressed again.

838AD: Islam: Moslem victory at Dasymon. Amorium captured.

839AD: Moslem occupation of Southern Italy.
846AD: Islam, Moslem forces sack Rome.

847AD: Islam: Death of Wathik. State officials elect Mutawakkil. He is noted for atrocious cruelty and persecutes Jews and Christians.

852AD: Islam, Serious revolt suppressed in Armenia.

858AD: Islam, Great war with Byzantines begins in Asia Minor. Mohammedans capture the Byzantine commander.

860AD: Islam, Byzantine defeat near Melitene.

872AD: Islam: The Tahirites are overthrown in Persia, and War with the Byzantines recommences.

887AD-888AD: Islam: Mohammedan invasions of Asia Minor.

904AD: Islam: Moslems capture Thessalonica.

917AD: Sicily falls to the Saracens, "an Arabic race" based at Palermo.

939AD: Islam: Capture of Mosul.

985-986AD: Islam: al-Mansur conquers and sacks Barcelona, a port of eastern Spain.

987AD: Islam: Spain, Bermudo tries to free himself from Moorish sovereignty, Al-Mansur razes Coimbra and in 988 invades to the heart of Leon.

996AD: Islam, Spain, Moorish capture of city of Leon. Al-Mansur now takes Compostella. In Africa, Al-Mansur's generals have victories in Mauretania.

997-1030AD: Mohammed of Ghazni rules Afghan empire; he invades India 17 times.

From 1000AD: Turkey transforms Islamic Society and carries Islam into India and Europe.

1008AD: Islam: Spain, Death of Abul-Malik. His brother Abd ar-Rahman (Sanchol) succeeds to chief ministry, and he conducts a campaign in Leon.

1009AD: Jerusalem: Holy Sepulchre destroyed by Al Hakim.

1010AD: Islam: Hakim destroys Christian Churches in Syria.

1019AD: Islam: Moslem conquest of Punjab in India.
1058AD: Islam, persecution of Christians in Alexandria.

1065AD: Muslim Seljuk Turks invade Asia Minor.

1074AD: Islam, Suleiman, the Seljuk, conquers Asia Minor and founds kingdom of Rum or Iconium.

1090AD: Islam, Hassan b. Sabba, of Nishapur, organizes a band of Karmathians called The Assassins.

1192AD: India: Moslem Muhammad of Ghur captures Delhi.

1192AD: India: Sultanate of Delhi is founded by Afghan invaders.

1194-1199AD: Islam: Moslem conquest of Northern India and Bengal.

1238-1492AD: In 1238 founding of the Moslem Kingdom of Granada.

1336AD: India: Hindu empire of Vijayanagar founded by Harihara I, and becomes centre of resistance to Islam.

Circa 1390AD: Islam: Ottoman Turks complete conquest of Asia Minor.

1550: Islam spreads to Indonesia.

630AD: Arabia, Mohammed moves against Mecca and conquers it. War with the Hawazin. Rapid spread of Islam. The Ka'aba in Mecca, a repository of idols, is cleansed of idols and becomes a building deeply revered by Moslems.

632AD: Death of Mohammed. The Prophet's successor is his father-in-law, Abu Bakr (Abu Bekr) who is chosen Caliph, or representative, and pursues an expansionist policy. Persians are expelled from Bahrein. An army under Khalid sets out against the Byzantine Empire. An Arab army moves up the south coast of Palestine and takes Gaza. Abu Bakr reduces a revolt in Nejd and Yemen, and defends Medina.
634AD: Moslem conquest of Yemen.

635AD: Islam: Moslem capture of Damascus. by 636 are added conquests of Emesa, Heliopolis, Chalcis, Beroae, Edessa, Battle of Yermuk. Heraclius abandons Syria to the Moslems.

636AD: Kingdom of Ghassan (300-636AD): Founded about 300AD by Thalaba, the first to take the name of king. His successors rule until 636, when Djabala VI surrenders to the Mohammedans.

637AD: Arabia: Middle East, Battle of Cadesia, or Kadisiya, Moslem victory over the Persians. Omar captures Jerusalem, then Aleppo and Antioch.

637AD and later: Moslem missionary expansionism had meant that Moslems had intervened at Jerusalem from 637AD. Moslems, partly due to their existing maritime skills, were actually invited into Portugal to help with problems by 711. Later they occupied Toledo. They were on Crete by 826, taking the island from the Byzantines, another obviously maritime adventure. Moslems had intervened in Sind (India) by the early Eighth Century, but they did not dominate Northern India till the Eleventh Century.

637AD: Sasanid power in Iran is broken by Moslem Arabs.

638AD: Mesopotamia is conquered by Islam who also take Tarsus and Diar-Bekr.

639AD: Invasion of Egypt by Moslem, Amru.

To 640AD: Arab forces take Palestinian cities such as Dara, Caesarea, Antioch, the isthmus of Suez. Iraq was taken by 637AD. In 639, Egypt was invaded by Moslem Arabs. In 641, Babylon (Old Cairo) was taken. Alexandria was recaptured in 645. By 700AD, Roman Africa was under Moslem control.

640AD: Islam, The Arabs invade Egypt and burn the library of Alexandria . However, the Arabs preserve the use of engineering skills known in Egypt at the time, while Europe remains ignorant.

610AD-641AD: Emperor Heraclius fails to stem the Arab threat and loses Africa, Spain and Northern Italy.

641AD: Islam: Battle of Nehavend, great victory for Islam over Persians, and many Persian nobility come to terms with Islam. Yezdegerd the king flees to a remote corner and holds a vestige of power till about 651-652. Alexandria is captured.

642AD: Islamic invasion of Egypt.

644AD: Islam: Death of Omar succeeded by Othman, a weak ruler who allows Islamic power to fall into the hands of the Koreish nobility.

647AD: Islam: Invasion of Africa by Abdallah, Arabs expel the Romans.

649AD: Islam: Invasion of Cyprus in 649, Conquest of Aradus in 650, Conquest of Armenia in 652, Conquest of Rhodes in 654, in 655 is defeat of emperor Constans by Mohammedans in naval battle off Mt Phoenix in Lycia.

Circa 650AD: Revelations of Mohammed are written; they become The Koran.

656AD: Islam: Murder of Othman by a party in opposition to growing worldliness of Islam. Leader of the opposition, and son-in-law of Mohammed the Prophet, is Ali, who succeeds. Battle of the Camel. Moawiyah, governor of Syria, heads the opponents of Ali, and incites them to revenge.

657AD: Islam: Ali invades northern Syria. Battle of Siffin. The theocratic faction rebels against Ali.

658AD: Islam: Decision of the Umpires, Ali and Moawiyah, the latter wins. Peace made with the Byzantine Empire. Egypt conquered for Moawiyah.

659: Islam: Moslem conquest of Egypt.

661-750AD: The Moslem Omayyads rule in Damascus, Syria.

662-663AD: Islam: Great invasion of Asia Minor. Death of Amru.

668AD: Islam: Islam advances to Chalcedon and holds Amorium for a time.

669AD: Islam: Great invasion of Sicily. In 670, foundation of Kairwan.

670AD: Moslem conquest of Kabul (Afghanistan).

islam and nazi's http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/
and now for a history lesson -
622-623AD: Mecca-Medina: Mohammed with followers flees opposition in Mecca and go to Medina. The first mosque is built. Mohammed becomes a warrior.

625AD: Arabia: Battle of Ohod, victory of the Meccans.

624AD: Arabia: First battle for the faith with the Meccans at Bedr. Victory of Mohammed.

628AD: Mohammedan war against the Jews of Khaibar.

629AD: Arabia, Mohammedan war against the Greek subjects in Arabia.

629AD: Emperor Heraclius in Constantinople receives embassies from as far away as France and India, and surprisingly, also a letter (as an apocryphal legend) from an Arabian chieftain and a Prophet of God, Mohammed, suggesting that he join a new faith.

so i am a warmonger? how funny to have an islamic tell me that.
what of their book of death, the koran?
without limitation or qualification it and its god demand for all jews, christian, hindu's, anyone not islamic, then and now, hate, theft, kidnaping, ransom, torture, cutting of body parts, slavery, rape and murder. all with only one limitations - if they are infidels all this is permissible.
and now im a warmonger?
all islamics who follow the koran, which is all islamics, follow that same hateful path that all islam first commenced 1400 years ago.
but i am a warmonger, and islam and its followers - let me guess - faithful adherents to the inspired of a god that told them to murder the only two peoples, in the entire world, that believed in him, jews and christians.
but i am the warmonger?
WAKE UP!

"The perpetrators -- Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith and the rest -- should be held to account, in this life if possible or the next if not. Pat Tilman must not have died in vain, and those who covered up the truth about his violent killing -- be it assassination or negligent homicide -- must pay."

Excellent post...Here are the reasons behind the invasion of Iraq and the war on terror in general:

1. The neo-cons Zionist element - Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, all of FOX NEWS - all of these neo-cons have a pathological desire to wipe out all threats to the state of Isreal in the region by using American power (i.e. the military) to do their proxy bidding.

2. Bush and Cheney - They are in Iraq for a different reason- to have more control of the worlds oil resources for strategic benefit and the benefit of their corporate cronies (i.e. Haliburton)

These forces combine to give us the Iraq disaster that won't be solved in the next thousand years by anyone...And soo many Iraqis and Americans have died..it is an absolute tragedy and one which must lead to at least and impeachement if not a court date at the Hague for Bush, Cheney and the architects of that war..

Frank you are a total idiot! Now we know where Cheneys nine percent approval rating is coming from!!!

Thanks for the compliment.I'd rather be naive and peace promoter than full of hatered and warmonger like you.Make sure you are not that different from Bin Laden,Hitler,Mosolini,Bush,Cheney and other extermist in this world.The whole world will never see peace as long as people like you contunue to spill their posion and hate on all moderate and peaceloving people.

It's strange, but after reading Frank's posts with such a regularity, I came to a moment of realization, that he is real, that he exists and although he may be mad or whatever, the chance that somebody like him sitting in the white house is not zero. And to Malleck Amode, Canada, I agree that he isn't Oppenheimer, but Truman also wasn't. What happened in 1945 in Japan was so unreal, but they did drop those bombs and they did manage to teach the Japanese so that even their minister believe in those "justice" of mass murders.

So if you believe in game theory, it's fine. But the world is weird and full of people like Frank.

Look at those suicide bombers...

Frank,

You have the brains to make the nuclear bombs to nuke Mecca, Medina and Iraq? Oppenheimer did and he regreted it.

Nope? You don't have the brains?

At least you have the brawns to go to the front to fight the Iraqis, the Saudis and the Iranians?

Stll no?

Well how about taking me on? Not along 'brawns' lines but along 'brains' lines -- say an IQ test?

never tit for tat. that assumes the foolish concept of proportionality. that concept lets the enemy dictate the response by determining the possibility of success and knowing the amount of response. that is not how wars are won.
so if someone attacks, you kill them. then they will not attack again. and if they hide within a group of others, well that is their problem, becasue the bombs fall where the enemy is and anyone around the enemy has made a problem for themselves.
so my advice to the enemy is dont stand near the terrorists/enemy. dont room with them, shop with them, go to the market with them, or even the mosque with them. the enemy is the target and if you and/or your family are near them when they are found you all get to die with them.
then there will be peace. for there are more bombs and bullets than there are enemies, and eventually the enemy will either be dead or they will understand the problem with being the enemy, and will choose a different path.
with that in mind my suggestion is to nuke mecca and medina, along with iran, at least for a start. enough of this playing at war. islam wants a war - then lets give it to them, full and bloody.
the people will either continue to fight or they will quit, but there will be an end to it one way or another.

To Frank Collins,

Hello, Frank!

I was away, first to attend my youngest son's graduation, with high distinction in Actuarial science from the University of toronto and then off to South Africa wherte my medical-student daughter got married. The first thing (almost) that I see when I get back and open the WAPO website is your very generous comment of Daoud Quttab naively pacifist piece --namely that violence can end violence.

For once, you are half right, and not in the supremely 'intelligent' and 'rational' way of Christopher Hitchens when he argues that those who say that "There is no God but God" are half right in the first part of the sentence.

You would know how 'violence can end violence' if you studied Game Theory, especially the latest theoretical and empirical results around the concept of 'optimal penal code'. Whether you are the lamb or the lion, the 'modified tit-for-tat' strategy (or, in Daoud Quttab's more spiritual language, 'modified unto others') is often the best strategy. It goes like this -- if your rival cheats once, give him the benefit of the doubt but make him understand that you are not amused; if he cheats twice, and you are the strong party, retaliate less than proportionately, but make him understand that you could have retaliated more violently; if he cheats a third time, retaliate more than proportionately and make him understand that you could have retaliated savagely. That will do the trick and get him to engage with you constructively. Now, if you are the weaker party? Same strategy, but on being cheated a second time, try to retaliate more than proportinately if you can to express your assessment that your survival may be at stake and next time around you would be ready to die retaliating rather than take it lying down. On being cheated a third time, be prepared to die retaliating after having, in the interim, prepared a new generation of resistance fighters to take over and get your message across more clearly.

Eventually, either peace is achieved or the weaker party becomes the stronger party.

This has been the process of war and peace throughout history -- read the book War&Peace&War by Turchin

Shalom, and good to resume exchanges with you.

Talk about Palestinian violence and Israeli violence and Al Qaeda violence and Hamas violence. Bush and Cheney take the cake for violence. They've opened Pandora's Box of violence in Iraq, and oceans of blood are on their hands, making Palestine look like small change by comparison.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST LEST HE BOMB IRAN AND MAKE THINGS WORSE.

Wikipedia says, "Under the Nuremberg Principles, the supreme international crime is that of commencing a war of aggression, because it is the crime from which all war crimes follow. The definition of such a crime is planning, preparing, initiating, or waging a war of aggression, or a war in violation of nternational treaties, agreements, or assurances. Also, participating in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any such act constitutes such a crime."

This definition from the Nuremburg Trials fits Bush's violent Iraq invasion exactly.

So the time is nigh for Americans to finally awaken to the bitter truth that, from the outset, the Iraq War has been a criminal enterprise, run by criminals, Bush's violence hasn't got us anywhere, and the American lives lost or ruined, the countless Iraq casualties, the $billions squandered, the grinding agonies day after day, have been for ignoble, unworthy ends.

The perpetrators -- Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith and the rest -- should be held to account, in this life if possible or the next if not. Pat Tilman must not have died in vain, and those who covered up the truth about his violent killing -- be it assassination or negligent homicide -- must pay.

Mr. Kuttab's admiration for the Palestinian PM's trying to encourage his people to try to resolve problems with diplomacy instead of violence is good. Anything can be solved over time with effort - IF there is a desire on BOTH sides to resolve it peacefully. As you said, good faith is lost when past aggressions destroy trust. Trust has to be re-earned.

In history, terrorists are weak groups of people fighting against a much stronger enemy they cannot hope to defeat face to face. For instance, the British American colonists fought against the British redcoats in the 1770's-80's 0 a much more organized, better-equipped and better-trained fighting force - by shooting while hiding behind trees, and were roundly denounced as cowards for doing so. But they won. They wore the redcoats down. And they learned their tactics from the Native Americans, who taught them to blend in with the trees, to use natural habitat as a cover, to hide in swamps and throw rocks if that was all that was available. They won not just because they were better military strategists, but because they were fighting for their home, their native land, the right to rule their own lives. I think defending one's home always gives one an extra advantage. They also won because the redcoats acted arrogantly & meanly at times, and public opinion turned against them.

About Palestine, my question is: who exactly lived in Palestine before the Jews began arriving in the middle of the 20th century? The history I've heard doesn't say. Was it a heavily-settled area or a sparsely-settled area, and who did the Jews replace and how did they do it?

There are plenty of cases in America where the rich have bought up all the land in an area gradually, then took over the area and remade it completely. Sometimes a few leftovers want to stay, but can't. I have cousins who had to move because an Interstate was to be built right thru their land. They deeply resented moving, but their wishes didn't matter. They gave in to the greater good. And they were compensated.

The point is, people are always being displaced, somewhere, somehow. The issue is HOW it was done, whether it takes the wishes of the residents into account, whether it reimburses them with something of equal value. I don't know how the Palestinians were displaced, but more needs to be said on the subject.

SAM,

I cant help but laugh at how naive you are. You can give out all Israel and Europe combined to Muslims still it doesnt make a dime of a difference.

Palastine is just an ugly excuse to support what they are doing. I dont think there was a palastine in India and they still made my country into 3 pieces and we still let them live free among us. now they are trying to blow the rest of the land.

Wipe the muslims from the face of earth, thats the only solution. Sure we will have many other problems but they will be settled with a war or two every 40, 50 years.

Every muslim is a terrorist its just that some wait for their turn and never get the chance to act. You can demonize me all you want but you cant prove me wrong.

Put the most peace loving bunch of muslims you know on earth in a room with a couple of imams and see if any one of them doesnt turn into a terrorist.

Sure there are millions of muslims living in peace..like i said its just not their turn yet..when needed every one of them will blow your family without a blink of an eye.

PALISRA could be the long-sought dream for settlement.
It is a sad situation that both Israelis and Palestinians have been fighting and killing each other for more than 60 years now and unfortunately, no light could be seen at the end of this dark tunnel.
The geography and demography of the area that extends between River Jordan and the Mediterranean indicate the complexity of the current situation. Every party is trying hard to grab by mere force what is in the hand of the other. Many wars have been staged and thousands of innocent lives have been shed for this purpose.
Nowadays, almost everybody is talking about setting up two countries for both Israelis and Palestinians. This simply means that the land of historical Palestine will be divided between the two parties, Israelis and Palestinians.
I doubt very much that either party will be satisfied with his share of the cake. There are chronic problems like Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, borders, water resources that nobody on earth can sort out to the satisfaction of both parties.
The short vision of setting up two separate states could sow the seeds for more bloody conflicts in the future. Nobody can guarantee or secure permanent and lasting peace under this proposition.
A far better viable solution that should satisfy both parties and put an end to all complicated issues is available. It is the establishment of one secular country for all on the whole territory of historical Palestine that includes the West Bank and Gaza besides Israel. Jerusalem will remain united for both parties, settlements could remain where they are now provided an appropriate compensation is made to the original land owners, natural geographical borders are already in place for the whole country and the issue of refugees could be settled by allowing all refugees to return home and to be compensated for the 60 years of misery they had to spend at refugee camps. All citizens of the new state, PALISRA (Palestine +Israel), would enjoy equal rights and bear the same responsibilities.
The newly established state, PALISRA will emerge as a prosperous and safe country within a very short period of time, and citizens of this state will learn how to tolerate,respect and even cherish each other. PALIRA will become a key player and an integral part of the Middle East as yesterday's enemies will become today's friends and allies for ever.

democracy versus violence? spare me, please! the united states under the inept and corrupt tutelage of the neo-cons led by bush and cheney have amply demonstrated to the entire world it's views where so-called democracy is concerned. simply stated; we support the right to free voting rights and unbiased elections provided that those we support win, period. if we do not get our way then the bombs will begin to fall upon your heads or the sanctions will begin. you have a choice; death by genocide(i.e. military action) or; death by genocide(no food, water, or electricity). isn't democracy great!! well, that pretty much explains the actions of those who refuse to threatened or coerced by the west. groups such as hezbollah and hamas were simply ignored and therefore regained the footing by properly promising to protect those that the u.s. and israel have bombed back into the stoneage. this will not end soon and in fact is now spreading accross the planet at an alarmingly rapid rate. we in the west have no one to blame other than ourselves by supporting the continued actions of our govts. if the people of the middle east and central asia are feeling cheated and disenfranchised it is because it is true. the neo-cons and the zionists have to be stopped and new govts. elected which can deal with the current and coming problems in a much more pragmatic manner. the present course is unacceptable and highly dangerous. my heart breaks for what my country has done to these people and i simply cannot accept anymore genocidal actions by elected leaders. if we wish to co-habitate upon this planet with muslims and others it will be by building bridges, not by bombing them. this is the only way to disenfranchise extremism; on both sides of the planet.

@Robert of Los Angeles:
"Perhaps more a cow, we want to milk it?"

The cow is dead. You can't consume it. Saddam is dead, also. And forget the AQ stuff, it's for 5th grade schoolboys. Everybody knows it's about oil, or milk shall we say ?

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!

Return to the quote, the lamb, Iraq, appears to be well-armed from IEDs to EFPs, and it blows up in your face :-)

So much for the well advertised democracy. More like democrazy to me.

It's hard to be civil when the shaking of the coffee in your cup is from a bomb detonated next
door or when the tea is shaking because your neighbor's house is being bulldozed! Violence is a fact of life in that part of the Middle East. It maybe the first thing kids feel inside their mother's womb. You can't just wish it stopped. It needs a solid determination and planning that spans through generation. Although the desire for peace is there, I do not think that the will exists.

LET'S NOT FOOL OURSELVES AND TURN A BLIND EYE TO THE REAL CAUSE OF ALL THIS HAVOC IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IN THE WHOLE WORLD.IT'S THE CREATION OF THE ILLEGAL STATE OF ISRAEL ON THE RUINS OF PALESTINE.THIS IS THE STEM CELL THAT HAS BEEN BREEDING ALL CHAOS AND TERROR WORLDWIDE.UNLESS THIS ISSUE IS HANDLED ADEQUATELY AND ALL PALESTINIAN REFUGEES RETURN HOME,WE WILL BE FOOLING OURSELVES AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT INVISIBLE GHOSTS THAT WE CALL TERRORISTS.

Where is my comment.Any censorship for readers comments.

Well, Ben Franklin, that's gotta be the worst analogy I've ever heard. Saddam's Iraq was a Lamb? US and UK want to consume it??

Perhaps more a cow, we want to milk it?

OK, but we pay the cow, wow??!!

And its Iran, Turkey, Saudi want to cut it up and eat beef or lamb chops not us!!

And it's a cow or lamb that's been suffering from cancer from AQ and other terrorism for a long time as well as Saddam's depravity and oppression.

And so we treat the lamb before we eat it, is that it??

Other than that, makes sense to me, Ben. Put that key out there again on a cable next lightning storm, OK.

Actually you were more going with the prophet Nathan to King David - his lamb analogy to Bathsheba - that's a bit too jewish for ya, though??

"It is easy to put all of the blame on those choosing martyrdom ..."

Yes, yes it is. It's also entirely appropriate. After all, it's hard to have a "democratic process" with people who want to blow you up because a poorly documented book consisting mostly of third-hand oral histories from the 7th century tells them to. And if you question what the book says, it's just another reason for them to kill you! As the Simpsons said, disparaging the boot is a bootable offense.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Pakistan spend weeks trying to convince militants that occupying a mosque (what were the odds) and using women and children as human shields wasn't the way to go? It is a truism that you can't argue with fanatics.

As for the culture of violence, if it weren't so depressing, I'd suggest there is a funny SNL skit to be had on the prevalence of violence in Palestinian "society" - namely someone who tries to suicide bomb others for even the most miniscule slights. Sorry, not bombing - "choosing martyrdom." Anyway, took his parking spot? That's a bombing. Accidentally picked up his sandwich instead of yours at the deli line? That's a bombing. Window screen not keeping the flies out? That's a bombing. Loud rooster in the morning? Bombing. Sunburn? Bombing. Earth's yearly rotation resulting in sun coming into his window earlier in the Spring? Bombing.

Actually, I probably shouldn't even joke about these things since there is likely some Imam out there harnessing all the power of his 3rd grade education to generate a fatwa for each of these offenses to Islam.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/11/news/fatwa.php

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well – armed lamb contesting the vote!

(Wolves: US UK, lamb: Iraq)

Salam Daoud.

May you be without fear and a leader of your people.

of course violence can end violence. we learned a lesson we have forgotten during ww2. if you kill enough the other side will quit fighting.
we want everything to be so nice and clean these days. carpet bombing does a lot of good, as it did in ww2. the german people supported the nazi's but after 2 years of bombing anything larger than a shoe box in germany the german people finally started saying that the nazi's brought this on them and they quit supporting the nazi's.
oh, did i forget to show what islam was doing in ww2 when others were fighting the terrorist nazi's? here it is - http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/