Far, far better... a Palestinian Marshall Plan for the United States. Much better idea.

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How about this for a political theory? I am sick of the Arab governments who are oppressive and tyrannical, I am sick of the racist Israeli government who wont even let me return to my place of birth in Palestine, and I am sick of fateh and Hamas who do not care about their people. I am more sick about the Bush administration whom took a fine great country into international defeat and scorn. Bring them home, quit aid to arab and israeli governments and can we please have some justice in the world?

James:

"These types of judgments are glib and a little naive. If you had been a decision maker at the time intent on forcing a Japanese surrender you may well had come to the same determination because the alternative may have cost far more lives."

No I wouldn't. What you wrote is US government propaganda which attempts to justify its murders of civilians and wanton destruction.

Killing civilians in that magnitude is never justified.

CF :Suppose that Israel had chosen to establish itself within the state of Texas instead of within Palestine. The Texans would have had to be forced off their land (some of them had to be shot in the back ) they are denied any compensation or right of return. Are you absolutely sure that those civilized Texans would not become in turn "people who in general appear to embrace terror, death, and cultural bigotry?"

"As the Palestian people and Arab people in general appear to embrace terror, death, and cultural bigotry" - CF, Washington DC.

HA! You're raving mad. They 'embrace' the only venues left them to survive. Would you rather they just roll over? Maybe empty out neighborhoods for Israelis to move into their homes? And where should these Palestinians go? Jordan? Wake up lad.

And please don't talk about cultural bigotry coming from Palestinians when this whole damned affair is the Jewish 'divine right' to take back the holy lands.

Karim-

It appears you are well versed in statistics.

Do you feel each suicide bomber and his/her victim is a statistic? It seems so.

How can you defend cowards who use women and children as collateral. You cannot.

Islam was once a proud religion that has been hijacked by you and the murderers.

CF

"In response however, the US government slaughtered over 120,000 civilians by nuking 2 civilian cities and completely destroyed them. The same US government firebombed Tokyo in which over 100,000 people were killed, many burnt to death.

"In total, 65 Japanese cities were firebombed by the US."

These types of judgments are glib and a little naive. If you had been a decision maker at the time intent on forcing a Japanese surrender you may well had come to the same determination because the alternative may have cost far more lives.

We can just as easily judge the Arab armies which spread Islam by the sword in the 7th and 8th centuries throughout North Africa and the Middle East.

These types of discussion go nowhere quickly, so let's focus on the issues which we have some hope of solving.

"We will teach our children what happened, and hopefully they will teach theirs the same thing until the day justice can be done."

This leads absolutely nowhere other than more of the same. It offers no hope whatsoever.

I'm curious, Karim, where do you live?

CF:

Free thinking is what lead me to discover the true nature of the criminal governments you defend.

Pearl Harbor's attack was launched on a military target: Japanese forces killed 2,403 American servicemen and 68 civilians and destroyed many warships. This of course was a crime itself (Note almost the same number of people have been killed in Iraq and that the US government considers it a relative success).

In response however, the US government slaughtered over 120,000 civilians by nuking 2 civilian cities and completely destroyed them. The same US government firebombed Tokyo in which over 100,000 people were killed, many burnt to death.

In total, 65 Japanese cities were firebombed by the US.

All of these murders are called an act of heroism in America. So sad.

Because in WWII people had to deal with a greater evil (The Nazis), they accepted the lesser evil policies of the other western nations which at the time were still colonizing half of the globe by force.

Just because the US government fought the greater evil in WWII, it does not necessary make it a force of good especially when we know its record after WWII ended.

The US government is not Switzerland or some peaceful country (but it can be). In fact, even Saudi Arabia with its repressive laws, can be considered peaceful compared with the US governments record in terms of use of violence.

Enough killing.

Karim-

The United States avoided entering WWII at all costs until it was ultimately provoked to enter by the Japanese slaughter at Pearl Harbor.

It appears that you are reading from talking points supplied by Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Taliban.

Free thinking leads to change, not beheadings.

CF

My last post should not be understood as some kind of excuse for some of murderous Arab governments who have killed a good number of people with impunity.

The difference is that all these 22 governments combined can not much US governments record in murdering people.

CF Washington DC:

"I am dubious about the success of this endeavor, as the Palestinian people and Arab people in general appear to embrace terror, death, and cultural bigotry, but it is ultimately worthwhile to make an honest and good-faith effort to at least prove the basic goodness of the American people as compared to the Islamists."

Let's compare how many people the Arab people have killed since the end of WWII and the number of people the US government slaughetered in the same time.

Terrorism is what US government after US government have used since WWII as a matter of official POLICY.

Killing foreigners is not only accepted in mainstream political America (left and right), it is considered an act of heroism where the killers get medals of honor and all kind of government propaganda.

The latest criminal US government have killed over 600,000 civilians in Iraq in less than 3 years, more than what Saddam killed during his entire rule.

The biggest modern bloodbath committed by a western government is still in Vietnam where the US government killed over 2 million people with impunity. None of the criminals who run that terror war were ever convicted.

Don't think the world is going to stand idle in front of this US FASCISM that murders with no remorse and continue to plan for more wars and murders.

Less than 10 years ago, I used to think America with its government was the greatest country in the world. Really, I used to love everything America stood for.
I remember how I used to cheer US troops in Vietnam movies in which they were slaughtering those poor people like flies.

Not anymore.

Make no mistake, My children will not fall for the same trap as I did and hopefully one day the entire world will stand up to this new fascist murderous governments who direct their crimes from Washington.

James/all:

Hamas or any other Palestinian government have no obligation to recognize Israel as long as the latter directly deny Palestinian existence by occupying their lands, restricting their freedom of movement and by denying them any political existence.

Many of you naive observers believe Israel recognizes Palestinians; They don't. If they did then they wouldn't be an Israel in the first place.

Palestinians are only fighting for their freedom and their survival as a people on their own native lands.

The Israeli are fighting for their survival as a people who stole lands from others, and who believe God gave them, and not others, a divine right to claim those lands as theirs.

We Arabs are never going to accept this.

We will teach our children what happened, and hopefully they will teach theirs the same thing until the day justice can be done.

This is not a fight between Arabs and Jews but it is a fight between natives and racist colonists.

"Again, the key is ending the Israeli occupation, but Congress can do a lot to help alieviate the terrible conditions that are brought out as a result of the unjust siege and 39 years of illegal occupation, land confiscation and racist settlement policies that discriminate against Palestinians and builds on stolen land for Jews only."

Then why not a package that makes Hamas - the governing body in Palestine - part of the solution? Hamas has the ultimate responsibility for the welfare of its people. Let them make the necessary political concessions, including acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist, in exchange for the aid. Without this step how can there ever be a long-term solution?

You cannot address the problem of Palestine without addressing the larger regional issue that includes Lebanon. At the same time that you're suggesting a Palestine Marshall aid plan, Hezbollah, with the help of Syria, is smuggling arms into Lebanon in direct defiance of UN resolution 1701, according to UN reports. Additionally, Hezbollah is actively working to undermine the current government in Lebanon, no doubt with the backing of Syria.

Focusing on Palestine only will not address this broader set of issues which will most certainly lead to more regional strife in the years ahead.

You are continually silent on Hezbollah in these pages, Mr. Kuttab.

I believe it is in the national security interests of the United States to attempt some form of major reconstruction assistance to the Palenstian people. I am dubious about the success of this endeavor, as the Palestian people and Arab people in general appear to embrace terror, death, and cultural bigotry, but it is ultimately worthwhile to make an honest and good-faith effort to at least prove the basic goodness of the American people as compared to the Islamists.

Were the USA really interested in Israel's well being, rather then there being a nuclear powered proxy in the ME, without doubt the USA would impose unconditional settlement to benefit Palestine, lest Israel, its leadesrhsip and its Jewish citizens completely degenerate into a moral abyss.

The period since the war with Lebanon [aided and abeted, perhaps even suggested, by USA] and the subsequent destruction in Lebanon and Gaza, where most of the victims were civilians and targets were chosen to inflict the largest posible damage to civilian life, indicate that at least the leaderhsip of Israel is lacking humanity. The recent aleged criminal activity by the President, two Prime ministers, and some Ministers show that the occupation, and inhuman behavor towards Palestinians grealy influence the moral degeneration within the power elite.

The recent addition to the Cabinet of a politician who proposes ETHNIC CLEANSING as a State Modus Operandi-- clearly indicate that the leadership has forgotten the reasson that Jews asked for part of Palestine [before the Balfour Declaration] the constant effort of others to perform ethnic cleansing against the JEWS. LOL, they have now officilly lowered themselves to the other great proponents of Ethnic Cleansing, such as Hitler, Stalin et al.

Israel, therefore needs immidiate help in such way that this moral degeneration cease ASAP. Whereas the USA is the political and economic crutch of Israel, the medicine must be forcefully applied by the USA

Thorn: From 1967 till 1996 Israel administered the "territories" and made many mistakes, amongst others 1) didn't allow the development of local industries that could compete with protected union monopolies in Israel.
2) was to slow in "power sharing" or fostering local elected officials.
On the other hand, in the first 20 years great strides were made in raising standards of living, lowering infant mortality and establishing institutes of higher education. In short, a mixed bag.

The problem, as I see it, stems from empowering the people who use terror and their supporters. The solution, at this stage, is to discredit the elements of terror by preventing them from showing any gains in hope that a new leadership will eventually emerge (which is pretty hopeless by now). Meanwhile, Israel should , IMO, reward "moderate behaivour" with economic incentives (freer movement of people and goods, more work permits etc). Hopefully one day we can have some cooperation between Arabs and Jews where each community will its own self government without "separation walls" and without terror.

There is nothing convenient here, and nothing easy. The current situation is not good, but it is so very hard to imagine that the clock can be turned back in order to gain the missed opportunities.
Instead of talking about "occupation", and "racist policies" , Kuttab might turn his attention to the lack of rule of law in the PA, or the corruption of PA officials (like Dahlan) or even the lack of freedom within the PA because of all the armed groups there. Presently, Kuttab is only making excuses for the PA's failures. People don't invest in failures and so I don't believe the incoming Congress will either.

(by the way, Toren is derived from Thorn)

Shlomo Toren: If calling a spade a spade is part of the problem, then what do you suggest is the solution?

As for condemning the PA, don't you find it interesting that the only reason Israel has allowed it to exist is that if it didn't Israel would be responsible, under international law, to administer the region?

Convenient isn't it?

Considering the size of the Arab population in the PA, the sources of aid they receive and the total amount of aid, I don't believe that Congress would be so receptive to increasing the funding to the PA (the PA already receives aid from UNRWA, the World Bank, the EU - around $2bn a year). Given the government of the PA what would the funds be used for? Probably for increasing the size of the "security forces" of for providing a new source of funding for already wealthy and corrupt insiders.
The problem isn't money, for the oil states have no end of that, but rather that the PA's agenda is conflict and terror. Building infrastructure and cultivating private enterprise they say needs a state first (preferably, they say, after Israel is destroyed).
As for your rhetoric, that is part of the problem, not a way to a solution.