Paris, France - We have a system which guarantees homosexuals financial and legal rights whilst avoiding the connotations of "marriage".
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Posted on February 15, 2007 09:57
scott ,
we all pay for many things we never receive. If yr white , you wont get the benefit of affirmative action. If yr the wrong sex, you wont get the benefit of title 9. you should get all the civil rights anyone else has, but
you don't need marriage to get them.
Deanna, you lost me here, if you get all the civil/legal rights that marriage has, why do you need marriage ? if you fight for civil rights , you'll win 8 yards, if you want the full 9 yards then its going to be difficult. Neither side will win there first choice, that is compromise.
My point was originally was why one side calls the other self righteous when clearly both sides act pretty much the same, self righteous.
November 1, 2006 11:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 1, 2006 23:57
Marriage should be abolished and removed from the laws all together.
Marriage should be regarded by the government as a contract like business contracts out there.
Any couple who wants to get married needs to come up with their own contract.
November 1, 2006 9:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 1, 2006 09:57
One of the common arguments used by gay marriage opponents in arguing against gay rights is a vicious circular argument -
"Gays can't get married because they're immoral" - but why are gays immoral? "because they can't get married." By denying gay people the opportunity to prove that they're just like everyone else (not that they should ever have to PROVE this), you insist on making us second-class citizens. Another way to look at it is that when married people get tax benefits and rights that are paid for in part by my tax dollars, but you say that I cannot ever receive those benefits under any circumstances, that is a fundamental unfairness and definitely runs afoul of the 14th amendment equal protection clause. Why should I suffer an increased tax burden to provide benefits to others that I am barred from ever choosing to receive?
October 31, 2006 10:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 10:37
It isn't about approval it's rights.
We ARE married already. The state just refuses to give my wife the same legal priveledges. I am the only person who could care for my MIL should something happen to my wife, but I will have to jump through many more hops if I will be given right at all to speak for her if the time comes.
My wife desrves my home without paying the huge taxes and other moneys that it would cost someone who was not married to me.
The issue here is gay marriage, not poly marriage. Stay on topic please.
October 31, 2006 7:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 07:56
Deanna, I support full rights for parents , gay or otherwise. But for me, it gets tricky when its two moms and one dad or two dads and two moms. At a certain point there s/b no argument for any number of wives or husbands, but I dont think this would function well in a society which bases much of its existence on heterosexual marriage.
or the very least "two parents". How would you argue against(not sure you would)any number of combinations or age restrictions for future marriages ? demonstrating commitment, loving can be many things to many people. It does seem you look out for yr own interest, which is natural but you have to then understand the other side who does the same . So where do we go ?, it has to be some type of compromise.Society s/b caring enough to help parents who adopt /have kids. But the line should be drawn somewhere. I think full rights would cover
the concerns that parents have. But as a compromise, if the other half who dont support gay marriage want to keep there traditions, then let them have it. Its a democratic society and we need more or less to learn to live together. Yr kids will have a mom in dad in every sense except for
societies approval via "marriage". In a sense that is unfair but in another sense it has underpinnings that cause societies great angst and the devil is in the details. Even from a secular point of view, , we should be able to compromise.
October 31, 2006 7:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 07:48
Ps. Alex.
Most states, including the one I'm currently in because my wife's mother is sick, does not rescognise those rights under a civil union.
In your friends' minds, we're not even good enough for that.
October 31, 2006 2:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 02:55
Mike is right on.
The same rights for two adults who wish to engage in domestic partnerships, for whatever reason.
The rest of it is personal, and not invited to look in my window or that of anyone I know, gay or straight.
October 31, 2006 2:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 02:52
Alex,
I am aparent of a lovely little girl no one would adopt due to her physical problems. My wife, who is also a wonderful person, is barely allowed to take her home from school, much less deal with things should something happen to me.
That little girl is 7 now and she deserves to have certainty that the people who have cared for her since 13 months will always be able to do what is necessary for her as parents.
If I die, they will have no home.
If I become injured, it will be next to impossibel for my wife to see me.
We are married in church. It's just you who keep out rights from us.
October 31, 2006 2:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2006 02:49
I agree with the concept of government adminstered civil unions, both for heterosexual and homosexual couples.
Frankly, it's my belief that the government should not be engaged in marrying anyone. Rather, the government should restrict itself to guaranteeing the rghts of couples who wish to enter into a legally binding, contractual agreement with each other.
Unless operating under a theocratic model, the government's job should not be to dictate what is morally correct. Instead, the government should limit its scope to ensuring the legality of mutually-agreed upon partnerships, maintaining law, preservation of its people, etc.
Leave morality and marriage to religious establishments, and let the government do what it does best - legislate the lives of its citizens.
October 30, 2006 11:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2006 23:37
How about we limit access to the institution of marriage, as the goverment bestows it, only to people who have children? Who else really needs it? How about either heterosexual or homosexual childless couples who want to make certain determinations such as who pulls the plug, who gets their money when they die, etc., has to make a contract up, but those that share the responsiblity of raising a child get the short-cut of marriage because they are maybe too busy raising that child and changing its diapers to go see a lawyer, which is understandable. If the institution of marriage is *really* just about raising kids, let's limit it to the people who are raising them, ALL of the people that are raising them, but churches can still "marry" whoever they want and whoever they DON'T want, in whatever manner they deem acceptable?
We should still have laws against incest because of the high risk of birth defects, but what if my brother and I agree to raise our brother's children if something should happen to their parents? Shouldn't we have the benefits of marriage for the children's sake? As for polygamy, is that really so different from the staggered monogamy that we have now?
If marriage is for children, craft the laws so it really is for their benefit, and theirs only. Adults can take care of themselves.
October 30, 2006 10:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2006 22:09
Deanna,
you have civil unions, guaranteeing every right, why do you need marriage ? a stamp of approval ? for what ? there is no right to marriage. It is a tradition that has always been heterosexual. You want rights , you have them. As long as everyone needs to live in the same country, everyone needs to stop behaving like they have the ultimate authority or right to enforce or deny something. The religious right may do that, but you certainly also are pretty self righteous.
Dan , equal protection means no rights denied, civil unions do all that.The right to marry is not in the constitution. You can interpret the constitution any way you want but yr position is no more legitimate then those who oppose gay marriage.
October 30, 2006 9:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2006 21:44
Why do pro gay marriage supporters believe there "source" of beliefs which are just as questionable have a greater weight then anyone else's?
The 14th amendment to the U.S. constitution says "...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
If any state allows a woman to marry me but does not allow another man to marry me, I consider that a denial of equal protection. (I happen to be a happily married lifelong heterosexual, but that's entirely beside the point.) The point is that gay marriage opponents want to use the government as a tool to perpetuate their bigotry. When the tide of mainstream American society is turning further and further against this particular type of discrimination, it is not appropriate or wise for candidates to run on anachronistically prejudiced platforms. Despite short-term political success, they will force future generations to spend far more time and energy undoing the damage.
October 30, 2006 4:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2006 16:52