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I know that this is a very late post, but I am new to this site and can't resist adding my "two cents' worth."

I want to respond to Buchanan who says that he saw a University presentation that depicted Cleopatra as Black. He is right when he says that she was a member of the Ptolemaic Dynasty and was of Greek descent. The fact is that the dynasty began with Ptolemy I, a Greek general under Alexander the Great. He maintained and encouraged the royal practice of intermarriage, so that by the time Cleopatra VII (the one who seduced J. Caesar and M. Antony) came along, she still had pure Greek blood and was therefore, not biologically disposed towards dark skin. Buchanan's arguments, however, imply that ALL or a majority of the ancient Egyptians were of Mediterranean stock (which he determined by looking at some unspecified artwork). That is simply not true.

While the Pharaohs may have practiced intermarriage, it was not a common custom, so the average ancient Egyptian was dark as befits a people who live under a broiling sun. Also, artwork from the Rhameside Dynasty depicts at least one Ramses with thick lips, wide nostrils and wooly hair. And the Nubians did indeed contribute to Egyptian history in that they ruled Upper Egypt at a point which significantly predates the Ptolemys.

I found Buchanan's posts engaging and have no major problems with them. I think, however, that he "jumped the shark" when he tried to imply that ancient Egyptians were not dark-skinned. Come on, James. Egypt is in Africa and its' people are Africans (analogy: People who live in Virginia are Virginians, but since Virginia is in the United States of America, Virginians are also Americans). Is it too hard to accept that those ancient Africans who worked the Nile, developed a bureaucracy that surpassed and predated the one in Rome and possessed an enormous treasury of gold and grain could have been dark-skinned? After all, you were very quick to accept that Cleopatra was not.

To my way of thinking calling someone 'a fat, black girl' would not be viewed as complimentary

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of documentaries on the Sphinx. Could you narrow that down a bit?

As far as race and ethnicity, one I've seen that always makes me giggle is the picture that I saw in a university presentation on Black History that had Cleopatra done up as black. Pure revisionist drivel. She was a part of the Ptolemaic dynasty of Greek descent. I have no doubt there were major contributions by Nubians during the Pharonic era, but cripes people, stick to the facts, they do well enough on their own.

Larry-
Just too bad the Africans who first mastered algebra were not smart enough to write that down in some form of record.

"Ancient Egyptians weren't black, they're own artwork betrays this." -- JAMES BUCHANAN

You must not have seen the documentary on the Sphinx.

Egypt has a long history. Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt were 2 different races/cultures.

I have hips, a substansial bottom, and rather large breasts that are real, not surgically enhanced. . .because I'm white, this makes me "un-sexy". You don't see fat white girls worshipped in the media too often--but our plumper African-American sisters like Queen Latifah, Jennifer Hudson (who's red carpeted wardrobe was much nicer than her skinny counterparts!), even Oprah when the yo in her yo-yo weight goes the other way, are considered "wow."

I used to think I was just too short for my weight, now I think I'm the wrong color!

Ancient Egyptians weren't black, they're own artwork betrays this. They're appearance would seem to be more along the lines of Mediterranean or Arabic stock. Besides, its a skin color, not a culture. I understand the motivations for such celebrations as Black History month, so please do not take my comment as a desire to see it removed from the calendar. I only wanted to point out that even the most noble swords are double edged.

To WAD: I work in the fashion industry. There really aren't any "straight male designers." And if there were, the fashion industry isn't ruled by them. There is, however, no reason to assume homophobia by recognizing this fact or that there is a real agenda that is being pushed down our throats. Homosexuals and lesbians have a worldview that gives broad acceptance to their lifestyles and ways. This includes influencing us heteros to alter our perceptions of what is good. It can easily be argued that the trend toward hairless men has been brought out by the homosexual movement. Men with hairy faces and bodies, etc. are now considered ugly and unsophisticated. I, for one, am happy to remain ugly.

I do not think that American and the west have anything to do with what the authors’ is talking about. One of the post say that
“One of the main fuels of the fire of racial prejudice is the opinion that blacks never contributed anything to science, mathematics……”
One thing to remember is that we are talking about African man and African woman, too even suggest that racism in the west influence the Dark/slim issue is intellectually dishonest, this have been going on since the beginning of time. If you are from East Africa ( Somalia, Ethiopia, ….) you are called not black enough, and the same thing happen if you are from West Africa then you are too dark…ect. The world will never be without prejudice if you like Slim woman, or “Plump” woman Dark or light good for you just do not expect everyone to like what you like. Also it is not a sin to like specific kind of woman that is your Prerogative. The only issue I have with all of this is: there is no one size fits all, do not try to tell the world what is attractive. I it is a fact the people are getting much bigger than they used to, so the phrase “Plump” will be mid size now days.

Peace and love

To James, for someone to imply that black history month may backfire is an unfortunate opinion. One of the main fuels of the fire of racial prejudice is the opinion that blacks never contributed anything to science, mathmatics, etc, so if this ignorance was eliminated by educating everyone of the facts that we were the first kings, that life began in Africa, the we first mastered algebra (the pyramids could'nt have been built without this knowledge)This was done before alexander's birth,so the greeks were'nt the first to master medicine,astronomy,etc as we were told in school.Which brings about another point,blacks such as king Tut,Ramses etc are depicted as white, why? So if the truth were told it would help eliminate racism. And incedently one of the things that attracts men to women are their hips,breasts etc, and the concensus was always the more the better,cause to a lot of women size still matters.

An interesting discussion. One of the more interesting points I think is the assertion of a homosexual influence on the widespread problem of anorexia. I'm not really even sure how to take that, except that it sounds a bit paranoid in nature. Do we really give "homosexual fashion designers" so much credit/blame as to think that they are behind this trend? Could there not be equal pressure derived from straight male designers or even female designers and female peers? I think in a social trend like this, one really has to look at media and marketing as a whole. Pinning the blame on a small group such as gay fashion designers seems ridiculous to me, and largely ignores other sources of the problem. Just a thought.

Amanda,

It's actually 2007.

Amanda, unfortunately those prejudices will remain as long as someone can promote themselves as better because of it. I have three cousins who have a black father, and they receive no end of grief from black students that hit them with the same prejudice coming in the other direction. As long as people insist on reminding the impressionable that such differences exist, and matter, there will be sparring across the ethnic lines. In this, I think, ethnic "celebrations", such as Black History month, actually backfire.

I live in Alabama and have a 14 year old daughter that I am raising. Her father is Indian and my mother is Hispanic. She has an olive complexion. She gets asked all the time at school if she is mixed. The only thing they see is black and white. There is to much emphasis placed on size, weight and skin tone. She is beautiful. She has come home in tears becuase people have called her racist terms. People this is 2006 this should have stopped by now.

Dark skinned people having a positive attitude of themselves is difficult as society embraces close to white as possible attitude. Go figure a pre-dominantly white society wanting a pre-dominnantly white appearance and claiming fairness and no bias towards skin color. The issue of skin color still exists because this article exists. In america there was the paper bag test. If you were lighter than a paper bag than you were in, otherwise out. Color discrimination leaving people of dark color left to feel less than the rest of our society. As the posters note what is the diference, get over it! Right! Color Bias is what this author is writing about in Africa that is also the case in America and around the world. Skin color and intelligence are not directly related.

Plump is not a black problem. I think plump is on the rise world wide as we all super size at our favorite McDonalds. Plump is epidemic because we, for the first time in human history, have more than enough food to eat. Being plump used to be considered an indication that you were rich. Now that everyone can be plump, the rich want to be thin. It takes money to be thin because you have to pay people to help you overcome your natural inclination to eat. The limbo starts for me when deciding at the drive through whether or not to go regular or super size. If only I could aford a personal trainer and a personal chef, then I am sure that I could get myself out of limbo. But then I would have to be rich.

I am confused.

On the one hand you write: "Today, the most popular western soaps and sitcoms in East Africa depict black women -- “Eve”, “Friends”, you name it."

On the other you insist: "So many Africans are trapped in this limbo, where nearly all of what they see in most magazines and their television screens is a world where it is thin women who are fashionable and desirable, and the real one they live in where mainstream worships ebony and plump."

I was just wondering if the issue was not essentially mediatic (and cultural, of course): I mean, should the African media better send back to the African populations their own image of beauty, would not ebony and plump, for instance, be for Africans reality through and through, with no discrepancy, no divorce, there being no dominance of western media in their societies?

I do not know your society well enough to judge. But I wish I did, and that I could figure that one out.

Enjoyed the smile, between your lines.

Just for the record, wasn't referring to weight gain with age, but looks to fade.

Amen, East, amen.

Here is where all the confusion comes in, beauty and weight have nothing to do with each other. And yes people do get married most of time on pure physical attraction. I reject the notion that say you gain weight with age . You can be beautiful and Heavy, but if you were 140 when you get married and a year later balloon to 220 you got go if you don do something about it.

One would hope the attraction in a relationship, be it simple intimacy or a marriage, would be founded on something a little more solid than physical appearance. Hate to bust any horny dog's bubble, but time is hell on beautiful bodies. Beauty does NOT last, despite often heroic efforts. If people are getting married on the basis of something so superficial as appearance, the 55% plus divorce rate in the US makes a heck of a lot more sense than I imagined.

I think this slim/Dark issue has been going on for a long time in some fashion or other. What have changed is the definition of “Plump” there are new standard of what is considered an over weigh. Also the Fact that most of the woman let them self go after married might be the bigger issue. When you find someone you are attractive to then couple years in to marriage they gain 50LB that might kill the relationship, and that goes for both sexes, maybe more of an issue for man since we are more visual when it comes to attraction. The point is I do not think that so much of it is TV’s fault it is more due to the fact when you find some you like, then they change physically, that attraction is not there anymore why stay in an unfair situation for both parties and it is socially acceptable to leave them.

Whatever floats your fantasies, dude. Even us white guys are getting a lot tired of the endless parade of anorexic waifs fashion nitwits seem to think are God's gift to feminity. Personally, I blame homosexual fashion designers for starting it with the Global War on Breasts. Pushing for ever flatter figures finally drove them to look for women for whom puberty just ain't gonna happen, and the results are pretty disgusting. 85 pounds is a good weight for a 10 year old, not a 25 year old.

So, if you've got a jones for the fat bottomed girls, go for'em with gusto. This anglo westerner salutes you in your quest for horizontal glory