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I completely agree with your point of view. Hope the US and the rest of the world would get 'real' soon before it is too late.

Leaving aside a strong emphasis on religion, I guess Iran has all traits of being a rational country. There is nothing wrong in being ambitious. The country is a democracy after and I believe we should let the people of Iran decide who should run them.

9 out of 10 Americans believe in God, yet they lack a single shred of physical proof for his existance.

Belief != Fact.

September 11th is a clearly documented, blatantly acknowledged act by a terrorist organization. The accusations of controlled demolitions have been dismissed time and again and yet some idiots, particularly those feeling the pressure of their countrymen's actions, seem to think they can prove it simply by shouting it loud enough and long enough.

Public Opinion != Fact, either.

Scream all you like, you cannot alter the facts, you cannot change history, nor can you alter reality.

So they pulled it off!

The Iranians got their diplomat back from Iraq (with other considerations not made public, of course...) and had a good laugh.

Better than destroy a whole country, meet none of one's objectives, be cursed by the world, and get no one back!

Tough day indeed for all those in favour of all they know: permanent conflict and perpetual war.

British authorities only realized how far is far enough. As for the British themselves, they can still smell a rat, after years of lies and deception. In any case, their "leader-to-remember" is on his way out, isn't he... or is he gone already?...

Well deserved by British diplomacy.

The US and UK invade Afghanistan and then Iraq. Time shows that their justification was preposterous. Lately, the US has been threatening to bomb Iran. When the Iranians grab 15 Britons the US and UK behave neurotically and psychotically. They will have to learn that they cannot come into someone's neighbourhood and kick the s**t out of them without upsetting them. The belligerence of Bush and Blair will not get the captured Britons back. However, diplomacy and respect will bring about their return.

I am surprised at the number of un-informed, ill-informed sheeple on earth as well as politically correct hypocrites.

Several polls have consistently shown that about 84% of the American people believe that 911 was an inside job. The fact is the 911 was a RACIST AND HEINOUS CRIME by a group of criminal and racist Americans themselves. There is no video that Federal Bureau of Incompetence could produce of plane hitting the Pentagon. On the contrary, they acted as Foolish PATSIES for the criminal operators of 911 by confiscating and destroying all other camera footage from buildings around Pentagon. Next, WTC7 just committed suicide. Thermate residue has been found as finger print left by the criminals. Please visit 911blogger.com, st911.org and many other sites.

911 official story is a forgery like the protocols of the learned elders of zion. It is as fake as a magician pulling a rabbit out of his hat, and does that mean you can have a rabbit farm from that hat? I cant believe how many idiots that we have.

And the most interesting thing is that most lead researchers of the movement are either Christian or Jewish. The MIT engineer, Jeff King does not sound like an Arab name.

Now what is the connection with Europe? Note the very first post in this discussion starts with Islamophobia. Its probably a patsy of the criminal cabal that pulled off 911. We have a strong feeling that almost ALL THE INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS of EUROPE knew instantly that 911 was a fraud. President Putin himself had carried out such a false flag operation based on blowing Moscow apartment buildings to enter the second Chechen war.

Jon Carlson has written an excellent investigative piece entitled "Russia Watched 9/11 In Real Time On Satellite" which you can find via google using these clues.

Racists of Europe, such as in France, Holland were immediately ready to take full advantage of 911 hoax. India, immediately understood that 911 was a hoax and staged its own fake terrorist attacks to harass Pakistan. Bush used it to harass Pakistan into submitting the father of their nuclear bomb, Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan to CIA interrogation. There was another goal of 911. Scare Muslim leader into becoming patsies to destroy their society from within. Once it is internally weak, then a stone can be shattered by one blow. Iraq was thus first weakened by sanctions, and then attack to shatter it.

By God, they will not succeed. Allah has power over all things. The universe has hidden dimension and God watches everything from there. That is what is happening. They can conspire but they will be defeated. All those who have died in Iraq from crimes are going to go to heaven. All the Americans who have committed atrocities will go to hell. All Americans or Iraqis who will do good deeds will be judged accordingly. God has absolutely no partiality towards any religion or race.

You are seeing events move extremely fast.

Iran has brought UK to a stalemate. Hezbollah has essentially defeated Israel, in the sense that the latter has failed to obtain its objectives of the war. The racist and heinous crime of the 911 operators has been exposed. This is the lynchpin from which will follow a large change in the world, but not in the way the 911 operators of controlled demolition intended, but totally opposite. The wife cheaters, the newt gingrichs, the pedophiles reagans herbert bush, as in the video "conspiracy of silence" where FBI criminals tried to criminally coverup is now exposed. This is never going to go away. The video evidence is far and wide dispersed on earth and archived.

The true believers from all faiths have joined hands and will not be divided by pedophile, sex crazed, wife cheaters and genocidal murderers and their deception and lies based on psychological tactics of Edward Bernays.

I ask you all for a moment of silence in the honor of 911 truth movement people, Alex Jones, Dr Steven Jones, Dr Fetzer, Dr Jeff King and many others I am failing to mention but God knows them and their reward is with Him.

I am surprised at the number of un-informed, ill-informed sheeple on earth as well as politically correct hypocrites.

Several polls have consistently shown that about 84% of the American people believe that 911 was an inside job. The fact is the 911 was a RACIST AND HEINOUS CRIME by a group of criminal and racist Americans themselves. There is no video that Federal Bureau of Incompetence could produce of plane hitting the Pentagon. On the contrary, they acted as Foolish PATSIES for the criminal operators of 911 by confiscating and destroying all other camera footage from buildings around Pentagon. Next, WTC7 just committed suicide. Thermate residue has been found as finger print left by the criminals. Please visit 911blogger.com, st911.org and many other sites.

911 official story is a forgery like the protocols of the learned elders of zion. It is as fake as a magician pulling a rabbit out of his hat, and does that mean you can have a rabbit farm from that hat? I cant believe how many idiots that we have.

And the most interesting thing is that most lead researchers of the movement are either Christian or Jewish. The MIT engineer, Jeff King does not sound like an Arab name.

Now what is the connection with Europe? Note the very first post in this discussion starts with Islamophobia. Its probably a patsy of the criminal cabal that pulled off 911. We have a strong feeling that almost ALL THE INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS of EUROPE knew instantly that 911 was a fraud. President Putin himself had carried out such a false flag operation based on blowing Moscow apartment buildings to enter the second Chechen war.

Jon Carlson has written an excellent investigative piece entitled "Russia Watched 9/11 In Real Time On Satellite" which you can find via google using these clues.

Racists of Europe, such as in France, Holland were immediately ready to take full advantage of 911 hoax. India, immediately understood that 911 was a hoax and staged its own fake terrorist attacks to harass Pakistan. Bush used it to harass Pakistan into submitting the father of their nuclear bomb, Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan to CIA interrogation. There was another goal of 911. Scare Muslim leader into becoming patsies to destroy their society from within. Once it is internally weak, then a stone can be shattered by one blow. Iraq was thus first weakened by sanctions, and then attack to shatter it.

By God, they will not succeed. Allah has power over all things. The universe has hidden dimension and God watches everything from there. That is what is happening. They can conspire but they will be defeated. All those who have died in Iraq from crimes are going to go to heaven. All the Americans who have committed atrocities will go to hell. All Americans or Iraqis who will do good deeds will be judged accordingly. God has absolutely no partiality towards any religion or race.

You are seeing events move extremely fast.

Iran has brought UK to a stalemate. Hezbollah has essentially defeated Israel, in the sense that the latter has failed to obtain its objectives of the war. The racist and heinous crime of the 911 operators has been exposed. This is the lynchpin from which will follow a large change in the world, but not in the way the 911 operators of controlled demolition intended, but totally opposite. The wife cheaters, the newt gingrichs, the pedophiles reagans herbert bush, as in the video "conspiracy of silence" where FBI criminals tried to criminally coverup is now exposed. This is never going to go away. The video evidence is far and wide dispersed on earth and archived.

The true believers from all faiths have joined hands and will not be divided by pedophile, sex crazed, wife cheaters and genocidal murderers and their deception and lies based on psychological tactics of Edward Bernays.

I ask you all for a moment of silence in the honor of 911 truth movement people, Alex Jones, Dr Steven Jones, Dr Fetzer, Dr Jeff King and many others I am failing to mention but God knows them and their reward is with Him.

Just do it! Maybe they did it in Nike shoes. A proper cause, there is no border, but it is also no terra nullius, and it is ok as a reaktion to the kidnapping of the Iranian diplomats anyway. They even announced something illegal as a reaction to the, in their opinion, maybe true, illegal acts of the UNSC. Why should anybody be allowed to stop Iran? What have they made wrong?

A shout to the Dude with all the Ya Ya's and Eclacti, or whatever? Bro Man, you need to ease up on that medication. As some of the brothers ova here would say: Dayyyym!
I'm going to break it down the way I see it. It's my opinion, but I would like to share it.
Iran - You're playing with fire, and eventually you will be burned.
Britton - You're giving up your strength, don't let the Molsims take over your country. Stand up and call a spade a spade for crying out loud.
U.S.A. - Arguing with the left is like trying to catch the wind. No matter how you try to explain things to them, they have an excuse and try to turn it around on you. It's a waste of time. They won't get it until something terrible happens, then they'll just twist it back and blame someone else anyway. "It was their fault we we there in the first place". You just can't win. And for all the people who cry about the rights of the Gitmo detainee's? You're so stupid if you think they are all there for doing "nothing" You're pathetic.
They are bad guys, you dumbasses. They want to kill you, you stupid fools. Wake the hell up. You just don't get it.

The Iranians have showed why the world cannot trust their president. The leadership is not in control of affairs, that is why there have been so many killings in the name of Islam. Violence breeds violence. Gandhi was right truth and love are the twin sisters of peace. Iran cannot continue to remain in isolation for yet another generation, its noble people unfettered by fundamentalism can play a valuable active part in global affairs. However, it must once and for all control those powerful minority elements which promote hostage taking and the use of violence. It is that element that is making capital out of an ambiguous issue of borders.
The people of Iran deserve better than that inept power seeking war-mongering so called president. He has single-handedly done more harm for the people of Iran than any foreign enemy could. Maybe the sensible approach of Mr. Ali Larijani will prove far more successful. He at least seems to be a man seriously interested in peace and commands the respect of his people - unlike the president of Iran who knows only the opposite of anything ‘peaceful’ and has earned for himself the distrust of his own people and literally the world.

There are men in American jails that are innocent - and until we invent the crystal ball that will continue to happen because we can't read minds.That doesn't mean we should "stop paying attention" and hope it all goes away. That was Clinton's approach - 3,000 died because of it.

Guantanamo is important because this is a war like no other. Where are the unforms the 19 hijackers wore on September 11? These aren't countries per se that are attacking American civilians, but terrorists that cross borders at will and train inside any country that will let them.

One way to get governments to police their own so that we don't have to invade their country and do it ourselves is to show them we will hold them responsible for terrorism conspired from their country. Ask the Pakistan president if he understands that message...

Do you let the bomb maker go after 4 years at Guantanamo? Any information he has to offer has been given, but can we afford to let him free when he believes with all of his heart that Allah desires him to kill infidels? That's the moral question - as president of the
nation, would you release enemy combatants found on the battlefield from Guantanamo because Democrats told you to?

To Mike, CHICAGO:

"Do you have proof to say that everyone in Gitmo wants all Americans dead? Trials? Evidence to prove that? Gitmo is a place where everyone is assumed to be guilty."

3 British Muslims were held in Gitmo for years, tortured and abused without a single charge.

In the end, they were told that their arrests was a mistake and were released.

Watch the Film-Documentary "The Road to Guantanamo" which tells the ordeal of these 3 innocent men.

It will shock you.

Over the past four years have the British not even once strayed into Iranian Waters. Most unlikely. Remember a few months back when the Brits were staging manuevers on Gibralter and instead of hitting a beach in Gibralter landed on a Spanish beach. The comical headline then was "Britain Invades Spain". A miscue in navigation.

The U.S. seized Iranians and the Iranians seized Brits. Its like children in a play yard. Except these are countries in a bigger play yard. The game is the same.

Gitmo -- so the model for the 21st century is that we are helpless in the face of non-aligned religious zealots who work to destroy us and anyone who won't submit to their authority? It seems to me that Gitmo is indeed a 20th century model being used for 21st century warfare. We find those "soldier" who don't wear uniforms and don't "belong" to a country and treat them as if they did -- by putting them in a place for prisoners of this "war." You folks who abhor your country don't seem to have any better model to put forward -- unless it is to surrender and do nothing. Maybe you can tell me in what wars we offered prisoners the right to challenge their status in our criminal courts? I actually understood that such treatment was against the Geneva conventions (making the act of waging war subject to a nation's criminal justice system).

Perhaps YOU will change your tune when it is you who is the subject of a WTC bombing, or a WTC plane attack, or an embassy bombing by those you want to absolve of any responsibilty for their actions. I get you hate GWBush, I get you generally blame the US for all the evil in the world -- get that I think you are idiots who can not be trusted to exercise good judgment!

"Guantanamo is not intended to be diplomacy, model or otherwise. It is, rather, a place to hold enemy combatants, as allowed by the Geneva Conventions, until the end of hostilities."

Show me the part under the Geneva Conventions which supports your claim. Gitmo, is a place to throw people suspected of terrorism until we can be sure they aren't. No due process, not trials - only Kangaroo courts deciding their case. What a model for the 21st century.

"Gitmo is not supposed to be diplomacy. It is a prison for enemy combatants"

And who or what exactly is "enemy combatants"? Which country is the US at war with? Perhaps you will change your tune when your government finds it convenient to label you "enemy combatants" as well. The CIA kidnaps civillians and hold them incommunicado from their families or lawyers. Bona fide POWS at least get to send letters to their families. So, thank the American Government for regressing the world diplomacy back to the 14th century.

"Gitmo not exactly model diplomacy"
Gitmo is not supposed to be diplomacy. It is a prison for enemy combatants. Unfortunately, Iran regards kidnapping and hostage taking to be a legitimate means of gaining leverage internationally. THIS SITUATION IS IRANIAN DIPLOMACY

Guantanamo is not intended to be diplomacy, model or otherwise. It is, rather, a place to hold enemy combatants, as allowed by the Geneva Conventions, until the end of hostilities.

You know, the same Geneva Conventions that make it illegal for Iran to parade the kidnapped British--the ones we've been hearing nothing about recently.

We should all stop paying attention. When it seems that no one cares anymore, the diplomats can quietly arrange repatriation with minimal loss of face. If we answer the Iranian's chants of "Death to fill-in-the-blank!" with our own chants of "Death to Iran," a lot of ugliness will ensue. Our most practical strategy is probably containment. Left to themselves, these radical ideologies will eventually burn themselves out, perhaps after warring among themselves for a while. Cultures evolve. My own country, the US, was very aggressively expansionist with broad popular support in its younger days. But attitudes changed, and you'd get almost no support for taking over any other country these days. And if you think that we now find it more convenient to be economic imperialists, look at the latest South Korea-US free trade pact. A real global hegemon would have forced a much better deal.

I was hoping to hear from Bill Emmot what realism was, I would have loved to put it on my blog as sturdy example of that mode of thought. Apparently it can be boiled down to one word: equivacation. Iranians are being surly, but America has innocent people in Guantanamo so they're both the same. Bush - Mahmoud: what's the difference? His last comment:

"So the answer to the question of how to negotiate with Iran is also simple: with realism. We are dealing with an argumentative, discontented regime that exercises power and leverage in a raw, not even ideological, calculated way."

What? Iran is not ideological? You think they're not ideological when they demand Israel be wiped off the map? When they treat their women like dogs, or ban dancing at concerts - not ideological? Wielding power in a thuggish way shouldn't mean we disrespect the real damage they could do. Ponder: Of all the ways one can come up with to warn off or deny the British movement through Iranian waters, they chose to kidnap them. This is not the first time Iran has kidnapped Westerners. Emmot forgets that, so he's willing to sacrifice dignity for peace. Not so simple, Bill.

"Ships sailing close to the (apparent) boundaries can easily make mistakes. We don’t know whether the British government is telling the truth or the Iranians. Neither may actually know the full facts in any case."

Mr. Emmott, I appreciate your honesty, under such difficult circumstances. It makes for refreshing reading, on this side of the large pond.

I agree with you: "Gitmo (is) Not Exactly Model Diplomacy". But neither was Britain's role in that "coalition" of the so-called "willing", in Iraq, when a majority of Britons were against that adventure in the first place, don't you think? Having once lived in England for four years, I could never understand how the British people did tolerate that abuse of power (with all the lies and the deception) from the Blair government.

As war is for the weak and there is no future in humiliating others, I sincerely hope this gets resolved diplomatically and that those service men and woman are back in England soon, safe and sound. Britain has enough diplomatic experience and finesse to pull this off.

Wow, what a surprise! Liberal pundit blames America for everything and liberal posters praise him.

Liberals also priased Stalin's dictatorship while disparaging Western actions. Why should we surprised that liberals take Iran's side over the West? Liberals hate the West and happily side with anyone who opposes it.

As a small boat sailor familiar with modern navigation systems (i.e. GPS, depth finders, radar), and navigating in close quarters close to shore, it's hard to imagine that the generally well-trained British sailors were unaware of just where they were. So it's likely that they WERE in Iranian coastal waters and the Iranians are telling the truth. It's a "gotcha" situation. Now the US and the Brits as our closest ally have nothing much they can do but submit to the Iranians. But there are many optiions...perhaps the US can return those Iranians we took into custody in Iraq.

"You compare British soldiers in uniform with prisoners of war whom admit to wanting all Americans dead?"

Do you have proof to say that everyone in Gitmo wants all Americans dead? Trials? Evidence to prove that? Gitmo is a place where everyone is assumed to be guilty.

This is not a comparison the author is making, but talking about moral ground - which in our case is quite shaky as well.

We know who is running Iran as surely as we know who is running Iraq. In Iran it is Ahmadi-Nejad (of course, in the West, they call him AhMAD-Jihad, ergo, they don't know who is running the country); in Iraq, it is Al-Maliki, although, with the his reluctance to self-destruct by taking Muqtada head-on, soon the West will make sure that the Iraqis enact the Western script of staging a coup to put Itad Allwai in place (not that I am against Iyad, but he could be other than just a puppet, as Benazir Bhutto is pining to be in Pakistan).
The next question is who wields real influence and legitimacy in Iran and Iraq? In Iran it is Khamenei; in Iraq, it is Ali- al-Sistani. Contradiction? Not necessarily. In US, we have Bush/Cheney and Nancy Pelosi; in Britain, we have Blair and David Cameron.
But sanity can still prevail. As Hans Blix and Senator Ray MacGovern and others in the Vetarans for Sanity Group remind us : THE NOBLE ART OF SAVING FACE -- WILL SOME DAY SAVE THE HUMAN RACE.
From all sides in this stand-off, the judicious exercise of the noble art of saving face will humanity from another catastrophic war.

Mr Emmotts analysis is spot on. The British sailors
are being held to show Bush that 2 can play the grab and hold game.

The U.S. should come out firmly, and unequivocably, in support of Britain -- including backing the Brits with force, if necessary.

After this "public" statement of bravado and solidarity, the real work should be left to diplomats behind the scenes. Let's not forget that we are dealing with 15 lives...

A one-to-one serious confrontational response (whatever that means) in this case is quite improbable, since Iran is a notoriously difficult country to negotiate with. Iran is taking advantage of a lack of cohesion and coordinated response among biggest EU countries (France, Germany, and perhaps Italy). If US were to push harder, Iran would get even more aggravated. China and Russia apparently are enjoying this standoff. The rest of the world is quite irrelevant in the eyes of Ahmadinejad. So, we are left with the "core" of the EU to travel to Iran and mediate the crisis. This is the best shot we seem to have right now.

You compare British soldiers in uniform with prisoners of war whom admit to wanting all Americans dead? That's the reality even if you refuse to see or acknowledge the truth.

Whosoever is telling the 'truth', the fact is that it is one of those unfortunate incidents which could have unfortunate repurcussions on the global scene, especially in the Middle-East. The US, the UK, the Arab league along with the UN should try to resolve this impasse as soon as possible.

"We don’t know whether the British government is telling the truth or the Iranians."

The first position published by Iran substantially agreed with Britain and showed the position of the boat outside of Iran waters. It was Iran's "corrected" version which put the boat inside of Iran and you now accept that as sufficiently credible to say "We don't know"??

Rubbish!

We won't get realism until this administration no longer runs this country. I wish that weren't true, but there it is.