I agree in earnest with the point being made by Mr. Goth. There is one aspect of the essay that I disagree with and that is that the West is supposedly superior than Islamists and it is there job to tame Islamist because they know better. To support my argument when taming can get you into trouble:

Iraq
Afghanistan...let your mind wonder(back in time)
Etc.

When we get to the point where the West rids itself of double standards they will win support of the muslim world and their hearts and mind(if that is still their aim). And not just the war in the traditional sense.
In a nutshell it is a mistake to be selective in what countries can become democratic. What makes Musharraf,Gaddafi and Mubarak different from Saddam.

Radical Islamist can be seen as an "engine" that feeds of poverty and double standards such as mentioned in the essay of Mr. Goth.Thus the engine should be modified and made environmentally friendly(democratically friendly) by combating poverty(CO2) sincerely because time is running out.

P.S
No society will be remotely peaceful whilst gross poverty and tyrants are allowed to thrive as long as oil and other resources are provided to un- and democratic countries.Finally who in their right mind would not want to live in a free and democratic society regardless whether you live in the West or otherwise. I know it is silly to even point out but we are all humans and have the same wants and needs but it is the way you go about it that is the sticking point(understaninding is the only way forward).

The union of islamic courts had a good side and bad side. Even though they restored some order in the southern part, they tried to disturb the peace loving nation of somaliland. Futhermore, they declined to negotiate anyone. It is good to change them,but worlord Abdilahi Yusuf can not handle the problems that are going on there. So somali's need an elected presidnt like Dahir Rayale of somaliland.

Elections do not make a government democratic. China has elections; the former Soviet Union had elections; Emperor Napoleon had plebecites. What makes a republic democratic, in the modern sense, is the enumeration of rights which apply equally to ALL citizens and cannot be trumped by mere government interest nor democratic majorities. Key among these democratic rights is freedom of religion and equality of the sexes. An authoritarian religious party by definition, is not democratic. A government ruled by such a party is not democratic. It is hypocrtical to support authoritarian and anti-democratic measures and then to complain when real democracies give you a cold shoulder.

someone wrote "the closest to moho the child rapist is adolph hitler, stalin, mao, the greak kahn, jack the ripper, they all did a better job than moho"

Let me help you repost the questions that silenced Frank. And please read and study the question before acting like a fool.

Tariq's questions are here..
"Tell me do you know of any man in the entire history
of Mankind who is more successful and more influential than Mohammad.
Also I would ask a more scholarly question can you name one man in the entire history of Mankind who has done more for the rights of Women.
Give me one name. Please.
Please don't name Jesus because he is God and you cannot compare a God with Man."

yes now i see the question.
i dont have to imagine - i am talking to a very stupid man.

the closest to moho the child rapist is adolph hitler, stalin, mao, the greak kahn, jack the ripper, they all did a better job than moho.

what are you talking about?

Frank Collins - It appears that Tarik's questions caught you off guard. Or you are still googling the answers!!

Good job Tariq!

After months of vaciliations and eventually turning the debate over to the United Nations, in 1949 it was decided that in recognition of its genuine economic improvements to the country, Italy would retain a nominal trusteeship of Somalia for the next 10 years, after which it would gain full independence. The SYL, Somalia's first and most powerful party, strongly opposed this decision, preferring immediate independence, and would become a source of unrest in the coming years.

Despite the SYL's misgivings the 1950s were something of a golden age for Somalia. With UN aid money pouring in, and experienced Italian administrators who had come to see Somalia as their home, infrastructural and educational development bloomed. This decade passed relatively without incident and was marked by positive growth in virtually all parts of Somali life. As scheduled, in 1959, Somalia was granted independence, and power transferred smoothly from the Italian administrators to the by then well developed Somali political culture.
Somali's internal disputes were manifested outwards in hostility to Ethiopia and Kenya, which they felt were standing in the way of 'Greater Somalia'. This led to a series of individual Somali militiamen conducting hit and run raids across both borders from 1960 to 1964, when open conflict erupted between Ethiopia and Somalia. This lasted a few months until a cease fire was signed in the same year. In the aftermath, Ethiopia and Kenya signed a mutual defense pact to contain Somali aggression.
Although Somalis had received their primary political education under British and post-war Italian tutelage, the virulently anti-Imperialist parties rejected the European's advice whole cloth, and threw their lot in with the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. By the middle of the 1960s, the Somalis had formal military relationship with Russia whereby the Soviets provided extensive material and training to the Somali armed forces. They also had an exchange program in which several hundred soldiers from one country went to the others to train or be trained. As a result of their contact with the Soviet military, many Somali officers gained a distinctly Marxist worldview.
By the late 1960s, the Somali democracy that had gotten off to such an enthusiastic start just ten years prior, was beginning to crumble. In the 1967 election, due to a complicated web of clan loyalties, the winner was not properly recognized and instead a new secret vote was taken by already elected National Assemblymen (senators).
The stage was set for a coup d'état, but the event that precipitated the coup was unplanned. On 15 October 1969, a bodyguard killed president Shermarke while prime minister Igaal was out of the country.
and that is what somolia did. the US tried once to feed the people but they said thank you by killing 29 or our soldiers and we left and are still gone.
so blame yourself is you house is dirty.

when an islamic says the west, what are they talking about? is there something specific or is it just islam speak, sort of like saying infidels.

now that is a new one!
somolia became a country in 1960 and from that point on it was on its own. it got its own leaders and decided its own path.
so here is what you do, work it out yourself and dont expect the white man to pick up this burden again. murder each other if you want, or create a paradise, if that is your choice.
but what you will not be able to do is allow terrorists to operate from there and attack others, but you can do yourselves in all you want. its not our problem.

but there are some animals that cannot be tamed and just need to be put down.

In Somalia, After suffering 16 years of civil war supported by the west and neighboring country of Ethiopia, people turn into and supported Islamic Courts (Hamas type party), they brought peace stability in six month short they rule,
Also to show peoples rejection of the parliment handpicked (of former warlords),
I don't know what kind of democracy is that.

Again, no the West didn’t respect peoples choice and they start to figh with ICU thru proxy war of neighboring country Ethiopian troops in the name of fighting with terrorist.
not a single terrorist was found inside Somalia ever since the war started six month ago, The only outcome was mass genocide committed against the people, and Ethiopna Army revenge of 1977 war.

This kind of policy will lead into more hate and Chios world, I hope to see Ethiopian troops pulling out from Somalia, and return of normalcy.

Thanks Bashir for revealing the truth,

Mohammad Allam - keep up the good "resistance". You are why there will be no peace in the world.

Democracy is a form of goverment that brought into operation by the world jews with sole aim to save the interest of minority jews.This democracy worked on the thesis that let the majority divide on matter of counting and put minority in command to be a sole balancing factor.By this thesis jews minority got the commanding position in europe to save their interest from christian majority.In america the same thesis applied and here jews emerged the commander in all aspect.In other countires this democarcy hijacked by the powerfull multinational companies which supporting the candidate by huge amount and advertisement in favour and thus working a winner factor.so democracy is not a goverment but it is a form of tactics to paralysed any society to function normally.The question of democracy cannot meet the interest of the west in islamic world.Thats the reason that west will use the different name to not led the plantation of democracy in islamic world.if Hmas is dangerous fellow then what about the repalcemnt of Nawaz sharif by MR musharraf? Why not west made any cry against him?.In west a right wing come in the power then that is mandate of the people but when islamist come in power of islamic countires then it is dangerous.why?The reason is that this west want that muslim countries follow their command.and following that command is the best form of goverment whether it is dictatorship of musharraf or autocratic rule of Husni mubarak or mr qaddafi of libya.They are ready to accept all sort of goverment where there is safety of interest but denied to any goverment which put interest in danger even it is democracy.In a phrase of indian language it is said "for dishonest there is no need of proof and for theif there is no need of strong lock" so,no government is the best in islamic world if it is against the interest of the west.

Every moderate Muslim, Christian and Jew should be rallying together with their Turkish and Pakistani brothers and sisters who reject fundamentalist Islam. They see the genocide, oppression, and deprival of basic human rights that comes along with such a regime. A worldwide rally showing their support will unite people against this clash of civilizations.

Musa, the reason why you reject peace is because you oppose a peaceful regime to become the leading party of the palestinians. These so called "leaders and thinkers" you admire, closure of schools that teach fundamentalist islamic "thought" like Mickey Mouse killing jews...and by the way promoting Islamic control of the world...is not what I call building peaceful coexistance with their neighbor. The rest of the world spoke with Ariel Sharon because they recognize that while the massacre in 1982 at Lebannon was horrible, Ariel Sharon was not the mastermind. Much less can be said about the Heniyeh led regime who send suicide bombers tarketing innocent civilians, continue to throw rockets from the same land Israel withdrew from, and teach murder to their children. Your undying support for those who oppose peace and rejecting that Palestinians should take any responsibility for the society they are creating is why the war will go on.

"A. Musa, Do you not accept that Palestinians should take any responsibilty for their own society as they created it?"
Sure, I do accept that Palestinians and the Palestinian leadership have to accept some blame. Having said that, I do not think the buldozing, concerntarion camps, the air bombardments, palestinian land grabbing by Isreali settlers, the assasinations of palestinian leaders and thinkers, deprival of all means of movement of the palestinian people, the closures of palestinians schools of all levels can no be a responsiblity that any palestians is required to accept.
If you ask me, Ismail Haniya did not kill directly, or indirectly as man lives killed by Arial Sharon, Meneham Begin, Rabin, or every Benjamin Netenyahu.
If Areil Sharon who was responsible for the Massacres of Palestinians in Lebanon in 1982, was allowed to be elected and visit any country he wanted to visit why not for Haniyah?
The Western nations that armed Isreal to the teeth and still supply them advanced weapons and do not have the guts to restrain them have to accept the bloodshed and suffering of the Palestinian people that was going since 1948 and worsened since 1967.

I have read with great interst and patience comments on the question of Jews Vesus Muslims and the unfortunate role played by our govt. But nobody has questioned the fact that why ewere Jews thrown out from every cuontry since 12th. centuary. As far as I remember King John Of Magnaarta infamy, followed by King Edward 2nd drove out Jews from England. Subsequently other counties like Russia, Germany etc. did likewise. Nobody has said about it. Even now things can be set right if we have America act an honesr Broker and have someone Like Arafat who reject the Dayton Accord.
You will excuse my poor typing skill.

A. Musa, Do you not accept that Palestinians should take any responsibilty for their own society as they created it? Since the first day of Israel's existence they have been doing everything in their power to make war against Israel. Perhaps if they started redirecting all the effort they spend in creating violence into education and peaceful coexistance they would not be in the situation they are in. Instead, they shove guns in their children's hands, teach hatred through Mickey Mouse, and have the frutis of a mobster society to show for it. It makes no sense in rewarding bad behavior - so they can show the rest of the world that violence and jihad is an effetive tool against the West.

I agree they can be tamed.
But why does that mean taking money out of the pockets of hard working people to support them? If they spent half their energy used to condemn Israel and threaten people they might be able to get a job. I mean, there are a million Pinoy OFW in the Middle East, not to mention a lot of Bengalis and Indo Muslims...so why can't all those guys who spend their time demonstrating and hating Israel learn to drive a truck and get a job instead?

And why do they think that the US and Europe 'owe" them a free lunch? Why don't they just ask Mrs. Arafat for all that money she stole.

The question is why? Why would the God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, and Jesus, need a child rapist to violate every principal that had been given to the Jews and Christians over the last 3,000 years?
Why would God, who spent more than 2,500 years grooming the Jews, saving them from slavery at the hands of Egyptians, taking them to freedom, defeating every enemy they had, and then fulfilling the long disclosed prophesy of a Messiah, [ok the Jews don't believe that part] create a religion that hated the very people God protected? Why would God, who gave the world Jesus, who told the world that the most important commandment after the love of God, and then tell us that loving thy neighbor as thyself was the next most important commandment, now needed to be replaced by the concept of hate, torture, kidnaping, ransoms, murder and forced conversions? And why would that same God, who now had Jews and Christians doing well, need another religion to hate them and seek to murder them?
The answer is - God did not need to do it and God did not do it!
mohamad's first lie was his assertion that he was a decedent of Abraham through Ishmael, the bastard son of Abraham and his wife's maid, Hagar. Other than moho saying it, there is not one shred of proof that it is correct. Nothing at all. While the Jews can trace their own history, and there is no doubt that Jesus was a Jew, and went through all of the required rituals of Judaism, there is nothing to help with the lie of moho, re Ishmael, for which no proof exists.
And after Jesus what the world really needed was a child rapist named moho - and yes having sex with a 9 year old is rape, to father another religion. No one that young has any capacity to consent to sex, they would not even know what they were allegedly consenting to. And then there are the lessons of moho. This alleged god commanded islamics to hate every Jew or Christian or Hindu [who did not even know of islam when they first declared war on the others] do not associate with them, do not be friends with them, do not work with them, but to take them prisoners, hold them for ransom, sell them into slavery, torture them, cut off their body parts, and if they don't join your religion, well just kill them. Why in the hell would any God, after the coming of the Prince of Peace, decide that a constant state of war - islam has been at war with the rest of the world for 1400 year, and hate and murder, was the way to go?
The answer is - NO GOD, but the DEVIL sure loves it.
What group of people has provided more fodder for hell than islam and those that follow it. And they do it so well too. If people tell them that forced conversions are wrong, millions march in the street for what they say is their god given right to murder to increase their numbers, and demand death for anyone who says they can't kill you if you will not convert.
And they hate their children too. Even now they use characters like Mickey Mouse to teach little children that strapping bombs onto themselves and blowing up other children, just because they are Jewish, is what the islamic god wants them to do.
So let me be plain. islam is not a religion it's a cult. moho is not a prophet, he is a child raping terrorist, that pretended he had a religion to contradict real religious beauty, and which then and now has as its only goal, conquest and slavery. And in 1400 years it never did anything else. Its time to put an end to islam, and to quit pretending its anything but a terrorist organization bent on conquest. Its time the world took what ever action was needed to put a final stop to islam and its cult of death.

Mr. Goth,

You got the story about Turkey wrong. U.S. supports the secular fascists in the Army and not the AKP, despite what some have been led to believe by the media.

You should do a little more research before raising one example after another to support your argument.

Let us admit it with full sincerity: Palestinians elected Hamas because they had lost their patience with their widely acceptable political leaders. The indifference and insincerity shown by the world leaders towards Palestinians' genuine problems led them to elect Hamas.

The need of the hour is to keep all the channels of communication open with Hamas and make them realise that their ways are not in the interest of their country and the world as well. Nevertheless, the world needs to address this Palestine issue sincerely by implementing the UN resolution on the same at the earliest..

Anonymous
Ted Baines
Glen

You guys are not reading.
You have to read.

"I have sent Mohammad came as a mercy for all mankind" (Koran). Every chapter of the Koran starts with the words Merciful (Rahman.Rahim).
You are talking about the greatest man that ever lived. You are talking about the most influencial and the most successful man in all of recorded history. You are talking about a man who saw success in his own life time. He came in the full light of history. Mohammad is revered and his name is recited 5 times a day by 1.5 Billion people belonging to many diverse race and nationalities.
You are talking about a man who continues to draw adherents and new converts from far away places.

Example :the Islamic society of North America is headed by a converted muslim Dr Ingrid Mattson Phd. This 43 year old Canadian born professor is featured in Newsweek article Jan01/07.

I suggest you read : Lt Gen Sir John B.Glubb's book "The Great Arab Conquest" (this for Glen).

Key among democratic rights is freedom of religion and equality of the sexes. An authoritarian religious Islamic party by definition, is not democratic. There are two competing World Views. One World View is founded upon the words and deeds of Christ. The other World View is founded on the words and deeds of Mohamed. Like it or not the government and social order of a nation will reflect the underling religious philosophy. If you are pure secularist or an atheist, just remember that you are in the small minority. The majority of people in any Western or Arab nation believe. So all are subject to the World View of the majority of the religious class where they live. If that majority is worshiping Allah, then you will be subject to that majority's desire to follow Mohamed. If the majority are Christian, then you will be subject to that majority's desire to follow Christ. We should all therefor be careful to discern the character of Jesus Christ and his deeds and teachings vs. the character of Mohamed and his teaching and deeds. We become like those who we follow. A nation of Mohamed followers will try to become like Mohamed. A nation of Christ followers will try to become like Christ.

So the question for us all is do we want the Islamic World order or would you prefer the Kingdom of Christ to rule on this earth. One or the other will eventually rule. Or will there be a stalemate, a perpetual cold war? Islam when it attacked on 911 gave us the answer to this question. We will not be allowed to live in peace. Mohamed commanded that there will be Jihad until every last person on earth bows to Allah. This is a fact and world domination is the goal of Islam.

First, I do commend Bashir Goth for calling spade a spade.
Secondly, this whole issue is one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
No matter what label the Israelis and thier sympathizers give Ismail Hanniyah is Palestinian freedom fighter. He is elected, respect, and admired by his people. He should be welcomed everywhere in the world that an Israeli head of state or dignitary is welcome.
Jews were supposed to learn from their long history of oppression and persecution. Sadly, radical Jews from all the corners of the world are now in the decision makers for both Israel and the United States and they are behind the suffering and oppression of the Palestinians.
The Palestian do not have to be starved to death because of who they elect.
Why double standards? Why the West and most the world community require Palestinians to decline violence why everyone else is waging war?
Why the USA and UK are telling other people to decline violence while they waging war in both Iraq and Afqhaanistan?
If Ismail Hanniya and his people are being punished for fighting the for the independence why every nation has so many heroes who fought for that one nation's independence?

Tarik,

Are we talking about the same Mohammad who supports honor killings, subjects women to be servants to men, and as in many Islamic countries oppreses their right to vote, drive, or wear the same clothes men wear on 120 degree days in the desert.

Frank Collins:
Imagine you are talking to a very ignorant man.

Tell me do you know of any man in the entire history
of Mankind who is more successful and more influential than Mohammad.
Also I would ask a more scholarly question can you name one man in the entire history of Mankind who has done more for the rights of Women.
Give me one name. Please.
Please don't name Jesus because he is God and you cannot compare a God with Man.

Why are most of these people crazy? Talk of killing Muslims, of a death cult? Talk of Israel perpetrating a holocaust on Palestinians? What's wrong with you?

Israel is willing to share the land, but the Palestinians are not, they elect Hamas, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and mass murder as a tactic. Is there any surprise that the Palestinians suffer as a result? This is their choice. They are offered peace but choose war. They are offered compromise and choose extremism. Hamas is a legitimate and democratically elected government, but the espouse war and hatred so of course other countries are not going to support that. There is no hypocrisy there. Just as other countries stood up to democratically elected George Bush, they can defend Israel and the world against a government with no interest in peace.

But not all Muslims are Islamist extremists. We should be fighting the Hamas fanatics, not the good Muslims. And one day the good Muslims will accept Israel and live as neighbors in friendship, and choose to end the cycle of violence. It's in their hands, as Israel has long been ready.

well john - i wasn't alive then and if i had been there is no reason i would have been tossed to them. come to think of it - islam was not alive then either. well, its not really alive now, its just a death cult on its knees to a fake god.

you cant tame a wild animal and that is what islamics act like.

Sounds like Jonathan Polard the Spy can't take criticism from anyone with a different perspective. Perhpas he should live in a place he aligns himself with where freedom of speech is not allowed.

frank collins and the likes of you:
why did the romans forget to throw u to the lions?

It's israel who denies the right to exist for a A Palestinian state as per UN resolution 181 of 1947-which was coerced to create the jewish state;israel denies the right of return to millions of Palestinian refugees since 1947/8 as per UN 194-yet it allows on the basis of a false and racist law of return jews who never set a foot in Palestine to come and settle occupied Palestinian land. SO who should recognize who? HAMAS-who has no state-which state is not even allowed to come into existence by israel in the first place or israel the the occupier of all of historic Palestine cries for recognition-while the whole world looks on especially the US.It's In the mean time israel cancerous settlement expansion goes on with impunity with full support of the US.It's sickning.

You folks are too extreem and miss the most obvious point. We are alive for a limited time and 99% of us would just like to have pleasant lives. But we complicate everything with religion and geopolitics. On top of this we feel that we are of some race or culture and are entitled to some lands or resources. Please, there are more than 6 billion folks who have the same rights to be soooooo special. Get over it. We currently have the technology and ability to provide reasonable living arrangements for everyone alive but only if this is what we want to do. So either you support the lofty evolving goals of civilization or go to some common location and we will exterminate you. Don't whine about your misfortune if you support misfortune against another. But anyone who wishes to live in the circle shall be granted human rights and the fundamental material support to live. The circle of blame stops the minute you step out of it.

it looks like islam is back to lyiong about the problem being israel and the pals. well here is what the koran said - and that was before the pals ever existed.
The Hadith No. 284, The Muslim, volume one, says that any Jew or Christian, who heard of Muhammad but did not convert to Islam, and died in disbelief, would rot in hell! Thus Islam withdraws from all Jews and Christians the right to believe in their faiths, and pratice them as such.
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)
Here those Jews and Christians, who spurn Islam, have been lumped together with the idolators such as the Hindus, and classified as 'the worst of creatures'. Therefore the Koran commands:
"O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..." (V: The Table: 60)
"The true believers say: Has not God ordered a chapter that commands the holy war" (Sura 47:22); or elsewhere: "Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, imprison them, besiege them, ambush them" (Sura 9:5); and, "Make war on unbelievers" (Sura 9:29). "When you come upon unbelievers, massacre them, tighten the bands of the captives that you will have taken. Then you will set them free, or you will release them for a ransom" (Sura 8:57).
"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:57). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:37).
"Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:22). THIS ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE PEACE SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE WAR AGAIN LATER.
4.89": They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
"4.90": Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.
"4.91": You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority."
or the islamics crying over the crusades when they started them. here is a little short history about that:
The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.
so tell us you islamic lying piece of dung, in what context do you put the war like history of islam, considering that they started the war before anyone ever knew about them. or why there are no longer any jews in mecca?
and how you can steal lands belonging to others and then complain when they get it back?
ill tell you how - because your islamic and like the child rapist moho, who made up your fake cult, you have no morals or values.

still lying about the never existed palestine. it never existed. and if the pals were all that great why does every islamic country that has pals keeps them in camps?
and the real crime was when islamic theives stole israel by conquest, and murder.
so give it back you miserable theiving islamic dog.

Israel was created by UN on the ruins of Palestine.That was the biggest political crime of the 20th century. Palestine was wiped off the map and Israel was placed instead.Palestinians were kicked out by military force to refugee camps outside their coutry to be replaced by immigrant jews from all over the world.
What a beautiful and peaceful Middle East we would have now without Israel.The US could have saved tax payers billions of US dollars already paid to the illegally created state to assist them kill Palestinian children and practice the worst holocaust against all non jews in the area,including moslems and christians.
No doubt that Israel is behind all turmoil and chaos in the Middle East and the whole world as well.

Sir:
You and many others seem to feel that Hamas should not have to suffer the consequences of its actions. You apparently believe that the decision of the Palestinians to elect leaders who wish to destroy Israel, blow up Jewish men, women and children at every opportunity, and shoot missiles into Israeli villages on a daily basis, is simply some inconvenient policy decisions that other nations should overlook. These acts are not simply policy decision, they are acts of war, and war is a two way street. Where did the Arabs ever get the idea that they can declare and wage war against another country and suffer no adverse consequences as a result of those actions? They want the world to give them money. They want to world to invite their leaders for conferences. They want legitimacy, even as they deny legitimacy to the Jews of Israel. War is a two way street. If you declare and wage war, you might lose, and your people might suffer and you might be ostracized. If you don't want to suffer these consequences, don't declare and wage war. I don't know why this should be so hard to grasp.

look at it this way. islam did not exist until 620 ad. isreal existed in 2500 bc, 3,000 years before islam. so how did islam get israel, they did it by force so now they have to give back that which they stole. too bad. dont care. hope the rest of the world that islam stole says they want it back and sends you all packing for sauda arabia, all one billion of you.

The ONLY way to "tame" islamists is for EVERY SINGLE NON-VIOLENT AND TRUE LOVER OF THE PROPHET TO SPIT ON THE GROUD THAT A VIOLENT ISLAMIST WALKS ON. REJECT THEM DAILY, VOCALLY, LOUDLY, AND PUBLICLY. STOP HIDING THE SMAE OF ISLAM AND HURT PRIDE.

LOUDLY STATE THE TRUTH THAT ALL ISLAMISTS WHO PRAISE VIOLENT ACTIONS ARE HERETICAL IN THE EYES OF THE PEACEFUL PROPHET. THROW THE IMAM INTO THE STREET WHO PRAISES VIOLENCE AND SPIT UPON HIS PICTURE IN PUBLIC.

Some muslims say they don't need to do this - they have said it "once" and that is enough. Other muslims have told me the problem is thge Quran is written in arabic and all the translations are causing the violence - that is rediculous!

STOP MAKING EXCUSES BECAUSE YOU ARE EMBARRASSED AND PRIDEFUL!

When true muslims reject the violence in their midst -one person at a time and hour-by-hour of evbery day - and stop the well intentioned but foolishly false method of protecting Islam through silence peace will come. When EVRY MUSLIM REJECTS HATE - only then will peace be upon you.

Very few people know that the biggest theft in history took place in 1948 when Israelis forced helpless civilian Palestinians by military force to leave their homes and belongings and turned them into refugees in neighboring countries until this day.We are talking here about tens of cities and hundreds of villages with an estimate value of billions of US DOLLARS.I really wonder why this theft is not listed in the Genis Book.
Israel still arrogantly refuse the return of same refugees to their homes and belongings claiming it could change the identity of Israel as a jewish state. In other words,one either be a jew or he would be kicked out of his home to a refugee camp in a neiboring country. This is the cruelest discrimination I have ever heard of. Maybe it needs to be listed in the Genis book as well.

still waiting for that address abdula:
islamics always say the same thing and do something else. but the islamic cult must be addressed at every opportunity, just like skin heads and nazi's and the kkk. you cannot be allowed to utter one lie without people pointing out to the world that it is a lie and that islamics are nothing but terrorists as long as they keep the koran as the rules they live by.
so burn with islamic hate as i tell the world that islam is not a religion, its a cult.
that 1400 years of islam attacking everyone not islamic is proof that all your cult wants is war.
that no messenger of any god can be that and rape little girls too. that is what moho is - a child rapist. he admitted having sex with a 9 year old and that is rape!
that moho lied about being in a line from abraham, via ishmael. its a lie and there is not one bit of proof that it happened. just moho saying it, nothing else.
that islam hates its children as much as it hates everyone else. who but islamics would take a cartoon character like mickey mouse and turn it into a hate message to kill jews and create more murdering scum who think killing other children as a good thing.
and other than moho saying it no one actually believes that your fake god allah, has any connection at all with the god of the old and new testament. as if jesus would ever take a piece of dog crap like moho and tell him that what god really wants is a new religion that hates, tortures, kidnapp, ransom and murders those who will not join allah. you have to be nuts to think that people really believe it. the problem is they want to get you to quit your war like ways to spread islam and they are pretending to buy into that dung in the hope you will start acting like human beings. but it will not work, they just feed your hate and belief that you can force the rest of us to our knees before you.
you are close to starting your world war, a war that will eventually come and you will lose, becasue in the end you will have to come out of hiding, blowing up little children in ice cream parlors or putting bombs in holes and running away will not get what you want. you will have to come out into the light and actually face your mortality.
islam is not a religion, moho was not a prophet he was a child rapist, and you can all eat crap and die for all i care. the rest of the world has been nice enough for long enough. we hear you - you are the enemy.

Israel was admitted by UN as a member state under reolution 273.However its admittace was conditional and only upon iplementation of resolutions 181 and 194 which clearly call for the return of all Palestinian refugees to their homes and belongings and to limit the borders of the new state as per resolution 181. Since Israerl until now refuses the return of Palestinian refugees and has expanded its borders far beyond the territories specified in resolution 181,it should not be considered a member state anymore.In fact it IS nothing but abunch of illegal military gangs whose only game is to practice all kinds of apartheid aganist all non jews and to kill as many Palestinians as they can everday.

some have commented today that the west should hold political parties such as hamas accoutable for their actions as well as those who voted for them. this is pure hypocracy. if liberal democracy was evr the most recent goal of the american people, then why have we saddled ourselves with bush and cheney for the past seven years. and as far as theocracy goes, there can be no more blatant misuse of it than those presently occupying the white house as well as many of the regimes the white house supports. egypt would be a prime example of democratic values simply being nothing more than a false oasis in the desert. and by denying democracy in an outright fashion in turkey, the turks are setting themselves up for a future showdown with true arab sentiment. what we have seen in south america is a view towards the future of what arrogant and falsely proclaimed democratic political meddling brings to the surface. if the middle east is the cauldron of extremism, then there are plenty of other pots boiling on the stove of falsehoods. africa will be a hellstorm in the near future as america continues to allow herself to remain bogged down in iraq whilst the al-qaeda and other extremists continue to effectively outflank us. if ever there were a time for true and constructive engagement the time has arisen. what we accomplish in the very near future will determine the far-reaching consequences for which all of us will be left to pay for far after the bush administration has left us. this could be the primary reason why they will never be forgotten; for all the wrong reasons.

This is exactly the apartheid mentality of Israelis that our great president carter warned about.I have not seen any comment in this forum calling for the murder of jews,yet I have seen more than one comment calling for murdering moslems.
No need to remind everyone in this forum that criticizm based on colour,race,religion is not acceptable by our civilized world.You criticize others for what they do, not what they are.If we are to adopt this principle,Israel undoubtedly takes the lead. The neo holocaust against Palestinian children is taking place everyday.Israelis are taking revenge for their holocaust in Europe against the wrong people and in the wrong place,Palestine.

hey abdula where is that address you wanted to post. do you really think anyone is afraid of you? do you burn with islamic hate because we know you are full of crap and will tell you so?
i laugh at islam and i have 3 copies of the koran. well actually 2 and one half. i use one of them to wipe my butt when i take a good runny dump.

i want my position clean to everyone. islam is not a real religion, it is a political movement.
moho was not a prophet he was a child raping terrorist.
the fake god allah has nothing to do with the god of the old and new testament.
moho was not a decendent of abraham and islamics are lying when they say they are abrahamatic, as there is no proof that ishmael is an ancestor of islamics.
that islam has what it has becasue it stole it from other people and religions.
islam is a vile terrorist cult and has as much to do with god as hitler and the ss did.
so start your world war so the rest of us can finish it for you.

no im not into murder, but war is fine. so go ahead and put you address out, i bet your mosque is now and has been preaching war and terror, it has to be, its islam. and its not my religion that says to hate and murder its islam. its not my religion that has had 1400 years of constant war to spread my religion, its islam. its not my religion that is telling little children with mickey mouse to go out and kill jews. and yes when the war islam has been demanding finally starts yes islam is toast. so please give everyone your address.

What a scared, pathetic life you must live.
- the only way to stop islam is going to require killing them all, so let the world war start

Want my address and try to start with me?

the pals and israel cannot agree so they should fight it out. the idf should go in and kill everyone they find and the islamics can do the same. no more bs about wanting peace, islam does not want peace, has never wanted peace and has been in a constant state of war for the the last 1400 years. get a clue - the only way to stop islam is going to require killing them all, so let the world war start.

more of the love that is islam:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/threat_to_chris.html
SOMETHING BRAND NEW:
Christians in the tribal Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan have received threatening letters from Taliban groups informing them that they must convert to Islam within 10 days or else.
The letters were sent to churches and homes. Thousands of Christians live in the province, which is largely controlled by the Taliban and tribal authorities after the Pakistan government removed its troops from the area last year.
The Taliban religious police have been cracking down in the area ever since. Girls' schools have been burnt to the ground, video shops have been blown up, and there have been threats to local barbers whom they say insult Islam by shaving beards.

Mr. Goth's note has a grievious error in his note, for he seem to indicate that the West has admirable political values and has observed international law.

The admirable parts of the WEST are in relationship to the Palestninas:

1., disregard for international laws [Security Council resolutions], abusive treatment of Palestinians [wide spread malnutrition, targeted assissinations, destruction of private property, etc].

2., The admirable qualities of the West include: denying medical insurance to the poorest segment of society [USA], pricing postsecondary education beyond the capabilities of the poorer citizens [USA/UK/etc], stratifed elementary and secondary education based on wealth of parents, arming and financing anti-government groups all over the world since WWII [from Chile, to Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Lybia, Nicarague, Cuba, etc ad infinitum].

3., Fostering hatred against non-christians/jews [most of the Muslim World].

4., Supporting dictatorships, heredetery rulers, etc as long as they willing to act as vassals to USA political aims.

5., Disregarding any and all international protocols/laws/agreements when such is not conducive to USA Hegemony.

Based upon the fact that the Palestinians are denied the benefit of the International law by Israel with the strong support of the USA [and her vassals] the Question arises:

WHY SHOULD THE PALESTINIANS subscribe to those laws which are routinely transgressed by the West?

supposed you had a political group that decided that it would hate and discriminate against others. in addition that group said it had the right to kidnapp, hold for ransom, torture, cut off body parts and force other to join their group or be subject to being killed. what would you think of tha