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Wow! I just spent around 40 minutes reading every post. I want those minutes back. A few enlightened comments sparked my imagination, nevertheless the racist rants that all too often accompany these types of blogs detracted from what otherwise might have been a ligitamate discussion.

To ALL: Did anyone mention EDUCATION? The freedom of thought exists through education and learning to think for oneself. Once, one is able to conjur up a new idea, others will follow and new ideas will be built on new ideas. Besides OUR bloody struggle, America (as we know it) was built on a series of IDEAS brought by those tired of living under other's oppressive ideas.

That said, given the opportunity (and the government that allows it) to obtain an education that is unbiased, thoughtFULL and provoking the world will change and no amount of AMERICAN dollars will aid the course of thought, but it can fuel the process through print.

So with that said, rather than make foolish attempts to draw reactions out of those we know only through postings (I know, "that's the fun part about the internet, BUBBA") make meaningfull remarks that contribute to the welfare of the HUMAN RACE, not America.

Zain, the best of luck to you. I know the system is hell, I had a co-worker run through the wringer to get his kids cleared to come over. But thank you for respecting the system. If we're given the opportunity, we'll fix the damned thing.

As for what we do to other nations, that's simply a matter of ensuring ideal conditions for our own survival. The dream that is the American way of life exists only within 50 states and a handful of territories. If the rest find it for themselves, great, but we're under no obligation to ensure such a life anywhere but home.

I work in architecture and construction, what I've helped build exists in quite a few places around the DC/MD/VA area. And you're right, I got lucky, I was born here. Life is like a crap shoot. I rolled a seven. He didn't. Such is life.

"we as a nation have built for ourselves"
James Buchanan

You didn't build anything. Don't act like you're better than these people because you were fortunate enough to be born in America. It is relevant because condescending and arrogant approaches, such as yours, do not help a complex and emotional situation. Your comments embody the American arrogance that the world has come to detest. Arrogance is the undoing of all empires.

James Buchanan:

I have worked my rear end off, and continue to do so, to attain legal permanent status in the U.S. Because of all the expense, monetary and emotional, that I have accrued in getting where I am the Legal way, I tend to have very little sympathy with amnesty programs or wishy washy ideas like, "leave the doors wide open and let them flood in". Some semblance of organization and some sort of a system to process much larger numbers of honest hardworking immigrants is needed; One that is not a slap in the face and a taunt to people like myself for the efforts we undertook (I'd like my money back if an Amnesty is announced though). But then you say this:

"because these dirt dogs are envious of the lives we as a nation have built for ourselves "

The problem is that this glorious nation has repeatedly, deliberately and willfully sabotaged and destroyed the attempts Latin Americans have made at constructing their own societies. It has overthrown democratic regimes it did not like in favor of bloody dictators (check out U.S involvement in Nicaragua, Chile, Guatemala...). Look up the names of Somoza and Augusto Pinochet.
As JB suggested; pick up a history book and read about how this "great" nation destroyed the lives and aspirations of millions of Latin Americans before you throw the prosperity this country, and you, have attained with no small contribution from the blood, sweat and tears of those who do not have that prosperity. Oh and I am sure you know of the mess the U.S has made in the Middle East over the years; supporting dictators, overthrowing DEMOCRATICALLY elected regimes. The same vicious, ugly pattern over and over again...

Get the F*** up off your chairs, and look at what is happening in the country of Sri Lanka. The government of Sri Lanka is kidnapping, killing, and rapping innocent people. The international communitity must out a stop to this.

People are getting killed everyday, and IF it is all right for the Sri Lankan Government to buy there weapons from Israel and the US why is it not all right for Tamil people to give funds to the LTTE to defend our people?

175 schoolchildren, 9 staff narrowly escape air strike on school

Sri Lanka Air Force (SLAF) Kfir bombers Monday morning bombed a school in Chundikulam, wounding a female teacher and two schoolboys, attending 7th grade and 9th grade at the school, Chundikulam Vidyalayam, located 21 km northeast of Kilinochchi, in the southern part of Vadamaradchi East region in Jaffna district. Three bombs were dropped 25 meters from a class room. A bomb that hit a tree exploded in the air, wounding two children and a teacher. Around 175 schoolchildren, 8 teachers and the principal of the school narrowly escaped from the aerial attack. TamilNet correspondent who visited the site of the attack witnessed a second air strike at 11:45 a.m.
Tamil Net

More than 100,000 people have moved out of Liberation Tigers controlled areas of Batticaloa district to the Military controlled areas as Sri Lankan armed forces continued shelling for the third consecutive day in their attempt to force evacuation of large section of Tamil population with the military agenda to capture additional territory, officials providing relief assistance said Sunday.

"But wouldn't you do the same if it were you on the other side of the border?"

Irrelevent. I am on this side of the border, nothing else matters. If that is the kind of hatred I face because these dirt dogs are envious of the lives we as a nation have built for ourselves and do not give it to them gift wrapped for free, then to Hell with them, their kids, and their country. They are my nation's enemy. An enemy we never had to fire a single shot in anger to subjugate. They can hate us all they care to, so long as they remember their place, and ensure my lawn is cut the way I like it. I am not inherently racist, but if a culture chooses to be my enemy, I will act against them with extraordinary prejudice.

If an immigrant crosses the border by the book, following the rules, no matter how annoying they are (and in DESPERATE need of improvement), then I welcome them with open arms. Its a matter of respect. What I see entirely too many latinos doing is utterly disrespecting the hand they want to feed them. Its offensive to me, and I choose to reciprocate with equal venom.

"Throw a dollar to a day laborer and yell "Fetch!". Its rather amusing."

"We buy and sell Latino laborers like cattle in a market. The only thing missing in a group of day laborers is a lot number tattooed on your whip scarred bodies. "
-----------------------------------------------

Your ability to pepper an argument with racist discourse and general bigotry is well done, and disgusting. But you were just dying to have someone tell you that weren’t you? Nevertheless I agree with a point you have made: that people from Mexico and other parts of Latin America do submit themselves to their own exploitation. But wouldn't you do the same if it were you on the other side of the border?

Maybe read a history book and look how Latin America has been screwed in the past, and how the Mexican government has also failed to provide for its citizens, with plenty of corruption to boot. If you saw your friendly next-door neighbor robbed by the man who sold him his house, would you do anything to help him? Let me guess: You would charge him to do your lawn for less than minimum wage. Nice.

Left unsaid by Mr. Baines, because it would ring false, is that "Christians do not worship Christ."

He should also compare "The wife has no rights over her own body; it is the husband who has them." - 1 Corinthians 7:4 (Jerusalem Bible translation). The misognyistic, self-proclaimed celibate Paul says the same about the husband. But the most prophetic comment from Paul is "...the world as we know it is passing away." (ibid at 7:31). Two thousand years later it is both a real and false prophesy - the more things change the more they stay the same.

My god the racism on this forum. Mr. Baines. As muslems, we also do not believe in pictures or portraits of all Gods prophets including Jesus. We look in disgust at everytime some fool decides to paint a picture or a movie of Jesus as well. As muslems, we also name our kids Issa, arabic for Jesus. As muslems, we await the antichrist and the real Jesus to save humanity from its miseries. I can continue for pages on similarities and why us Muslems respect people of the book. When Salehadiin retook Jerusalem from the Crusaders, he let them walk out to their bases. He did not slaughter them as the Christians did when they took Jerusalem for the first and only time. The Koran invokes many pages on the Virgin Mary and on Jesus. Everytime Mr.Baines, i see you comment on here, you espouse nothing but hatred. I suggest you go to your local mosque and talk to people. Yes, there is a mosque in almost every American city. If you want, you can email me. Simply declaring hatred is not how you l earn about a persons religion.
In regards to the writer, yes, you are right most of muslems wear western clothing and love starbucks, but thats because humans love starbucks and clothes.. religion has nothing to do with it. Lol most terrorists are wearing Nikes when caught. thats because Nike is sold everywhere.
Now, I agree with you that more muslems are turning to Islam. Thats because most of us see the hatred in some on our fellow human beings eyes for things we did not do. Most of us muslems see wars being waged on the majority when the majority has nothing to do with terrorism. Most of us muslems see contradictions in how America treats Israel. We turn to Islam because it teaches us who we are. When someone is afraid, he or she looks to spiritualism i guess. Mostly all of my friends who are girls in america have covered their hair recently. Mostly all of my friends have grown beards and all pray. I think your right. We see our religion attacked so we go to its defense and realize we love our religion. Any other human would do the same.
The difference is, most of us turn to our religion and not the violent interpretation terrorists want us to. Terrorists are a minority of our religion . 1.5 billion muslems and maybe what?? 20k terrorists???
Theres more murderers in American jails then there are terrorists in the world. Does that mean Americans are violent? Heck no.
Anyhow, God bless america. God save us from Bush. And from people who comment with hate and opinions not based on fact, just hatred.

Alfague, hate us all you want, your people are still willing dogs who sit up and beg when we have the greenback milkbone.

Throw a dollar to a day laborer and yell "Fetch!". Its rather amusing. The beauty of illegal labor and the latino invasion is that you're actually making Americans wealthier by providing services to us for much less than we'd have to pay one of our own to do so. Its almost a reason to argue for amnesty, simply because by remitting a pittance back to your dirtfarming kin, you're really not doing all that much damage to us.

We buy and sell Latino laborers like cattle in a market. The only thing missing in a group of day laborers is a lot number tattooed on your whip scarred bodies. Remember to pay the coyotes so they don't cut your kids' heads off.

You don't keep the money you earn, so you don't have much in the way of economic clout. You think you can earn your way into legitimacy by sheer force of numbers, yet you forget just how gifted Americans are at maintaining large numbers of disenfranchised individuals in servitude. We don't "own" you, we "rent" you. Saves a lot of moral handwringing in the end. You're like slaves that don't need chains. You're so addicted to dollars you come back for them freely.

I've said it before, in many parts of the world to effect regime change you don't always have to use bombs... sometimes you just need to give them free HBO!

Joel E.:

I think you should have carefully read Samuel Huntington's quote before you reacted to it. You said the same thing he said.

Alfague:
ou are so wrong, we latinoamericans wear your clothes, listen to your music, eat your food, but still hate you american imperialists....
====================
We know. It is wrong, and it is offensive.

ou are so wrong, we latinoamericans wear your clothes, listen to your music, eat your food, but still hate you american imperialists....

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion (to which few members of other civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do."

—Samuel Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, 1996
================================

Samuel should have gotten an education before he wrote the book. If you look, the extension of the west was into countries that behaved exactly as the west on a smaller scale. What the west had that others did not have were the weapons to extend their will with very little in the way of armies. So it was not a moral flaw that put the west in control of most of the world: it was that the processes were universally recognized and accepted, and the weapons were available. Until those weapons came to be, and all of the elements of corruption came to be, the idea of a single area dominating the world as the west did was very slim.

But we add another element that is critical. At least ..some.. of the indigenous peoples of the countries that became colonized wanted what happened, to happen.

Ted kaines;

I notice that Ibn Ishaq talks of both husbands having rights over their wives and wives having rights over their husbands..somehow, only those particular rights of men over women seem to be expounded upon. A lot of the modern literature on the quran comes from either intellectuals, scholars etc. from cultures and backgrounds that were and, in a lot of cases, continue to be patriarchal and even misogynistic perhaps. Islam needs modern scholars to rethink these interpretations from not so much of a "modern" or "Western" wiewpoint (Western and Christian history itself being full of much more blood, gore and tyranny than Islam), but a "humanistic" approach. The basis of such reinterpretation already exists in the Quran; equality of all humans, respect for all of Gods creations (I see great promise for environmentalists and animal rights groups here) etc.
A new moderate, enlightened intellectual movement is what the Islamic world needs; one that keeps the best of Islamic tradition and culture, and adopts humanistic values where needed. Unfortunately, it seems that the only "scholars" purporting to "save" Islam, are the hate spewing bigots like Ayan Hirsi, Ali Sina etc.

By the way, there is a great article by Geneive Abdo elucidating these very ideas on the main page of the WaPo today (link below). I hope you find it possible to get around the (hate filled?..)haze in your head to reaize that not since the days of the colonizing, arrogant, self-righteous and superiority complex imbued Western invaders has the word "Muhammadan" been used to describe Muslims. Judging from the content of your posts though, you would fit right in with the crowd.
Cheers and happy St. Patty's day to you!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031601941.html

queens english is no longer in the fad try pinglish

I am posting the most authentic version of Muhammad's Last sermon , page 651 of the Sirat RasoolAllah by Ibn Ishaq, translated by A. Guillaume, published by Oxford Press. Read the last two paragraphs.

“O men, listen to my words. I do not know whether I shall ever meet you in this place again after this year. Your blood and your property are sacrosanct until you meet your Lord, as this day and this month are holy. You will surely meet your Lord and He will ask you of your works. I have told you. He who has a pledge let him return it to him who entrusted him with it; all usury is abolished, but you have your capital. Wrong not and you shall not be wronged. God has decreed that there is to be no usury and the usury of ‘Abbas b. ‘Abdu’l-Muttalib is abolished, all of it. All blood shed in the pagan period is to be left unavenged. The first claim on blood I abolish is that of b Rabi’a b. al-Harith b. ‘Abdu’l-Muttalib (who was fostered among the B. Layth and who m Hudhayl killed). It is the first blood shed in the pagan period which I deal with. Satan despairs of ever being worshipped in your land, but if he can be obeyed in anything short of worship he will be pleased in matters you may be disposed to think o little account, so beware of him in your religion. “Postponement of a sacred month is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it another year that they may make up the number of the months which God has hallowed, so that they permit what God has forbidden, and forbid what God has allowed.”

Time has completed its cycle and is as it was on the day that God created the heavens and the earth. The number of months with God is twelve; four of them are sacred, three consecutive and the Rajab of Mudar, which is between Jumada and Sha’ban.

You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity. If they refrain from these things they have the right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their persons. You have taken them only as a trust from God, and you have the enjoyment of their persons by the words of God, so understand (T. and listen to) my words, O men, for I have told you. I have left with you something which if you will hold fast to it you will never fall into error-a plain indication, the book of God and the practice of His prophet, so give good heed to what I say.

Know that every Muslim is a Muslim’s brother, and that the Muslims are brethren. It is only lawful to take from a brother what he gives you willingly, so wrong not yourselves. O God, have I not told you?

This argument is confusing. Politics, economics and culture are three different things. Cultural products (such as McDonalds, Starbucks, movies and music) can be exchanged without the need to bring along politics and, perhaps, economics.

Starbucks is a good way of showing that an American business plan works and employs locals and creates demand. But it does not stop unilateral politics, nor will rejection of it all create a reverse flow. What is needed is sustainable dialogue in a cordial atmosphere. That will bring understanding and then other politics, economics and cultural exchanges will follow. There is no shortage of "hardware" but there is a desparate need for "software" which is interaction of people and thoughts.

Nuhammadans does not imply that Muhammadans worship Muhammad. It implies that Muhamamdans follow the teachings of the self-proclaimed prophet Muhammad as laid down in the Koran and the hadiths and narrated in Sirat Rasulallah by Ibn Ishaq. the reality though is that Muhammadans do worship Muhammad and have made this pedophile the equal of the Arabic godling Allah. What else explains the fact that Muhamamdans will not draw a picture of Moe even though he is described adequately in the hadiths:. broad shoulders, black dyed hair, gap between teh teeth etc.

Buddhists do not worship Buddha but they follow his teachings and therefore they are called Buddhists.

Zoroastrians do not worship Zoroaster and yet they are called Zoroastrians.

"their dream of establishing Islamic regimes"

I understand that this is a very serious stance by many Muslims. Are they being taken seriously? These people would benefit by studying history and reading Locke, at least his letters on toleration.

Islamic or religious regimes can only work if there is absolutely no diversity and the views of people never change.

Even if 90% of a country was Muslim, there would still be a minority. What about that minority? They should leave? Okay, that worked out well for the Israel and their Muslim "minority".

The current religious views will change. Then what? Have more schisms and create new countries?

This has happened before. Christianity created a Christian regime under Papal rule. Religious views eventually changed (the Protestant Reformation), there was bloody (BLOODY) warfare for over a century. Those Christians were just as adamant as these Muslims are now. People started to realize it was ridiculous, and CONSTITUTIONAL democracies were eventually established to allow a diverse population to coexist. It doesn't matter if leaders democratically elected (Taliban, Hamas) if they are not held in check by a legitimate judicial system based on a constitution.

I have very strong religious beliefs, but I recognize that I am not the only person on the planet. Things always end up messy, often bloody, if a leader's God is their commander.

"the onset of globalization... dashed the hopes of the Islamic movements"

Why? How? Is Islam truly anti-modern and anti-global?

Traditional societies are a thing of the past. They will all end up in museums and history books. It is foolish to mix up technological advancement with Western culture.

I'm curious to know how the UAE is governed.

Bashir,
Besides being flagrantly illigitimate, the military invasion of Iraq including the use of military force was disastrous and counter productive.No amount of Starbucks will do.

More importantly: no hearts and minds will ever be won by America while the state of Israeli APARTHEID imposed on the Palestinians continues with vulgar and blind US support. The real issue is accumulated grievances.

Arabs young and old like America and its culture and harbor no ill feelings towards the American people whatsoever:but it's the Bush and his neocons that fight wars against Arabs and Muslims with American blood and treasure on behalf of AIPAC and Israel-and now with 43// forty three Jewish members in congress,we are in for a long wait to change US foreign policy to serve US national interests above all others especially that of Israel.

Ted Baines,
Your ignorance is appaling,are you so illitrate,have you been dropped upon us from outer space? what Muhammadens??? Muslims do not worship Muhammud, they worship GOD,the one and only.
It's unorthy to try and comment on the rest of your post which is even more ignorant.

Muhammedans is not a word. Learn what Muslims are called before you go on an incomprehensible rant about them.

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion (to which few members of other civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do."

—Samuel Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, 1996

While I agree with the Starbucks, Hollywood theory, the US government still stuck on their old ways of thinking of the Middle East and Muslim countries in general. What I mean by that is: they do not want to acknowledge the globalization of the American culture; as a matter of fact the government has the same issue relating and understanding youth in the US. The whole white teens being the biggest consumers of gangster rap Hip-hop ….ect. It is not only cultural gap it is a big generational gap. It is time to get with the realty and move in the right direction. Maybe let some of the young people in this country run it, it would not hurt at this point it might be what is missing.

While I disagree on what is said to be the content of "the bitter memories the Arabs have, of their socialist past during the Cold War period" and think there is more, much more to be said on the subject, I believe it is true to say that "it was due to this desperation that people in the Arab and Muslim world turned to Islam as a source of pride and identity." It seems to me that we very seldom hear that said. Yet it is so very important that this be said, if we are to understand the actions of those in the so-called "islamic" movement, as well as the rationale behind those actions.

I remember a soft-spoken Moroccan younth having recently emigrated to the Netherlands, stating emphatically, in a television documentary (to the apparent amazement of his European friends), that he considered himself Muslim first and Moroccan second. That root identity is what accounts for "Arab" resistance having become "religious". The fact that religion be so meaningless in the West, nowadays, may explain why so few of us understand this point of view on religion as one's source of both identity and pride.

As for declaring complete victory assuming "Starbucks, Hollywood movies, the fashion industry and its cutting edge technology and business acumen, will win for the US the war in a silent revolution"..., I can only believe this has been written tongue in cheek.

I have lived amongst young Arabs, here and in their own countries. They had "bought" everything American mentionned in the last paragraph. Yet all of them watched daily US agressions in the Middle East on Al Jazeera, surfed on the Internet for Arab and Islamic news, etc. Judging 1. from their subsequent hostile reactions, 2. from physical attacks I witnessed repeatedly on Western tourists, etc. I can vouch that most have no reservation joining the fight and that many of them are committed to fighting America regardless. It makes no difference to them fighting America while wearing American t-shirts, caps, jeans and nikes, speaking english, and after having had a coffee at Starbuck listening to American music, something they can also dispense with, whenever necessary.

Let us not forget Arab and other Muslim countries have generally a very young population. Notwithstanding their looks and preferences when it comes to entertainment, not having the young truly on our side can only make for a very long haul, all over the Arab and Muslim worlds.

Trusting Starbucks and Hollywood to win over the youth of the world is an idiotic dream.

This country CAN develop a decent foreign policy that doesn't include an army and armed forces. Most certainly.. weapons from the sky. But this country should not.. and in fact in this day and age.. C.A.N.N.O.T.. cannot play the Lone Ranger role as world policeman.

We need a democratic world organization.. not the U.N., with all member being democratic.

That organization provides those things which discourage corruption and encourages democracy.

That organization makes sure a threat against one is a threat against all.

That organization provides economic support to third world countries that need the basics such as water wells.. and the educational processes to move forward to boot.
===============================

It is not complicated. I see the need for a military dedicated to the support (men and materials) of such an organization and in direct ratio to our presence in the area, and wealth.

It is simple.. it would work!

What you Muhammadans, define as victory, Mr. Goth.

the USA has toppled two Muhamamdan regimes, Saddam and the taleban, the al Qaeada is in hiding, there is a constitution in both countries freely written by the elected representatives, every Muhammadan in the world would like to come to the USA , enjoy the benfits, build mosques all over the place and then declare that they want to have an islamic Republic of USA. Despie all the oil wealth there is not single university that compares to the ones in the USA.

Muhamamdans are killing Muhammadans in Iraq and in darfur and notheing is being done by Muhammadan countries.

How about writing a column criticising the Islamic apartheid in Mecca and urging all Muhammadans to boycott the hajj until non-Muslims are allowed to enter Mecca , freely worship and build their places of worship?

How abot fighting for the right of apostasy by Muslims?