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Dear Mr. Bathir Goth, Thank you for sharing your thoughtful words which are truth well spoken, revealing and soothing to the eye and mind...Continue your bravery and I pray you will be protected by the Great Knower of TRUTH,TRUTH ITSELF....Your truth speaking will color the dialogue of all cultures and peoples, unifying our lives, bringing us together, brothers and sisters, to face humbly the real wars/plagues of environmental destruction, disease and poverty and more... All people and resources can be brought together to work and live in peace, creating health and wealth...Thank you for what you risk...thank you for your sharing of your understandings and writing them down for us to ponder, Moslem and Christian and Jew alike and Buddhist and Hindu etc.I pray for peace for all our children-the world over... Thank you is not enough, but I pray too for your protection and your family's....Your sister, an IMPERFECT follower of Jesus, in the dream of peace and brotherhood for all humankind, cheryl.

The nun in Somalia was killed by one of her disgruntled employees. Something that ahppens regularly in Somalia, disgruntled employees who ahve been fired killing their employers that is.

Amazing how a lie such as that the nun was kiled because of the popes remarks spread so fast and then become a reality, makes one wonder if not all of world history is one big lie.

ALLAH help us all, we live in an age truth has no value and the lie and the liar is valued.

Chris, you have no credibility when you post such jokes as 80 million Hindis killed by Muslims. Such is a fragrant lie of liars propagated by Hindu terrorists of the Sangh Parivar movement, whose nationalist terrorism has gone unchecked by the BJP/RSS corrupted Indian govt. This gives me a chance to mention that the lie spread that Muslims torched a train of Hindu pilgrims in Gujurat years back was finally proven false 5000 deaths (mostly Muslim) later by a judiciary hampered by RSS backed corrupt politicans and officials. Muslim stores, mosques, and communities have been attacked ever since by RSS terrorists which Chris seems to support.

To further prove Chris' viewpoint, a mosque in Melbourne Florida was attacked and shot at Saturday, Sep 23, 2006. This follows a vandalized Muslim cemetary in Orlando among several other attacks on Muslims in the past year which are ignored by many. Eventhough Central Florida Muslims have reached out to the community a great deal.

Ultimately, the suspects in the murder of the Italian nun in Somalia were arrested by the Islamic government there. Yes? They were not championed as heroes.
And the Palestinian churches burned were defended by Muslimled govt, scholars and Muslims there and abroad have offered to help rebuild them. Yes? And both Somalia, wartorn and destitute for years, and Palestine- occupied, poor, and wartorn for years are two of the worse off Muslim countries. What's Melbourne Florida's excuse? Or Boca Raton or Miami where mosques have been burned? Or Michigan?
Or are hatemongering, violent bigots common among all people, including the world's most powerful nation and leader of democracy? But if Somalia which has been one of the poorest nations on earth is just like Florida, one of America's richest states, what's America's excuse?

The time to start a genuine civil discourse between the great religions and cultures of the world is now.

" Anger is a sin of thought which, if not controlled, may be the forerunner of vicious and violent acts" El Ray Christiansen.

" When the weakness of anger takes over, the strength of reason leaves" Gorden B. Hinckly

Short background information on the Byzantine empire

Byzantine empire also called the Greek Roman empire, or the Eastern Roman empire was based in the ancient city of Constantinople, (modern Istanbul, Republic of Turkey). This empire once extended from Constantinople all the way to Persia in the East and South to Egypt and Syria. Since the rise of Islam in the the 7Th century A.D., the Byzantine empire based on the Greek orthodox church was at war with the then emerging Islamic empire.

Over the years, The byzantine empire has lost ground to the Islamic empire in Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia, Egypt and North Africa. The Seljuk Turks also conquered Constantinople in "1453" and changed it into Istanbul. Therefore, the animosity between the imperial Byzantium empire that have taken vast territory in the Middle East and Asia minor and North Africa, and the resurgent Islamic empire that has started in the 7Th century is understandable. The context by which the Byzantium emperor blasphemy against Islam can be understandable. But what is not understandable is Pope Benedict's citing of the Byzantine emperor Manuel 11 Paleogolos disparaging words against prophet Mohamed.

At any rate, Pope Benedict's citing of the Byzantine emperor Manuel 11 Paleologos, was an unfortunate and counter-productive move at least at this point, when sensitivities between the Muslim world and the west is at all times highs. The Pope, a man of huge intellectual capital and great reader of history, should have to think twice before, quoting a byzantine emperor, the leader of an empire that has been at odds with the Muslim world for hundreds of years. The pope Even if Quoted this very unpopular emperor at least in the Muslim world, should have to point out the context by which that unfortunate statement has been uttered.

Byzantine empire in the Muslim was known as an aggressive empire out for conquest, blunder of bounty, death and destruction. During its long reign, this so-called Greek Roman empire controlled a good junk of Muslim land from Turkey, Persia, Asia minor and the Middle East.

Meanwhile, It is time to stop this kind of controversies and uproars. Such out bursts of anti-western rallies and rhetoric are unnecessary also. These angry rallies, in response to Pope Benedicts unfortunate remarks, at this time are nothing but an exercises on futility. These flare ups won't help an already explosive situation. There are plethora of vital issues and interests, these two great religions of Islam and Christianity have in common. These occasional controversies will further aggravate the long lingering suspicion and distrust, that has been existing between these two religions for centuries. Moreover, nobody needs more gaffes that comes from men at higher echelons of power, such as the pope, a misinformed cartoonist or anybody else. The time for an open dialog has arrived. A direct grassroots open civil discourse must start between the these two communities. Discourse between unpopular and corrupt governments in Muslim countries such as Egypt, Pakistan and the west is not the answer. The existence and the sustainability of these weak, tyrannical states, which primarily depend for their existence on the west, is at the center of some of the anger, spewed at the west.

In the same month, last year, a Danish cartoon assaulted Islam, associating prophet Mohamed with violence. That unfortunate and short sighted cartoon put the innocuous, philanthropic, non imperial and charitable Denmark on the spot light of a bitter controversy. This surely touched off by a myopic journalist looking for any kind of publicity, even if it is a one that offends over one billion people. That cartoon controversy has put small poor Denmark in a whirlwind of international controversy. Surely, the last thing a country like Denmark wants was such a huge negative controversy.

The time of an open civil dialog between the west and the reasonable cool heads of Islam. Somebody must break the ice. A civil discourse must start and soon.

I will end my essay with the following quote. "Bitterness is like cancer, it eats upon the host, but anger is like fire, it burns it all clean" Mayou Angello

Soleiman Egeh a freelance writer

"Look back at 9/11 & the remote justification for that war?
I commend the author of this article & I abhor any country who will use faulty information to justify violence towards any other country.

Posted by: Andrea Timmons"

Your logic fails to account for Islam's bloody borders that long preceeded Bush or 9/11.

Pick up a history book sometime. There's 1400 years of it. A good place to start is the Hindu Holocaust, which Hindis claim the jihadists killed 80 million Hindis from AD 800 to 1974. Or read a history on the millions killed after the Byzantines fell in 1453. Or the eradication of Zorastrans and N India Buddhists. Or how the Muslims set up the black slave trade and raided all along the Mediterranean and Caucus region for slaves and "comfort women" right up to the early 19th Century. Anytime the Islamists are in a position to exert physical power over an independent infidel region, they try conquest. Once an infidel area is conquered they live in misery and fear of massacre, with only brief bouts of tolerance between heavy oppression from intolerant Muslim leaders. The Left loves to ignore what happened outide their great bugaboos of The Crusades, Bush's over-reaction to 9/11 and not realizing that WE THE WEST were all at fault from "root causes", and of course Iraq....

Goth -

I hope you realize that this is the finite period of time for Islam to be trying to work out a way for them to stop attacking infidels, and learn how to coexist with the West and Asia, and achieve compromise short of true large scale conflict. Even in Canada, there has been a big change...the distrust of Muslims and skepticism of the goals of Muslims is escalating.

We see, like Japanese, Swedes, Nepalese, Nigerians, Indians attacked by Muslims - that this has little to do with our politics since we don't back Israel and are not in Iraq - it has to do with a religion that makes many even born in our countries hostile to non-Muslims, reluctant to assimilate and be friends with us, and a culture that says infidel women are fair game for a Muslim to bag, but their womenfolk are too pure to ever be permitted a filthy infidel relationship.

Anyone who has witnessed the birth of one's child can tell you that yes indeed you create your own reality, the question is what do we wish to create for ourselves as reality on this planet, now and for our children's, and their children's future? Not just in this country, but the world as a whole, as an international vision.
Inherently, change is viewed with suspicion, as a threat to culture and ways of tradition and ethical belief systems. As it applies to developing countries in this nuclear age, the post-cold war aftermath presents a vast paradox that present no easy solutions, and has culminated in the reality of the war on terrorism as it exists today.

If there is one thing about people that's a given, it's that they can only change themselves. You can try to understand them, change their circumstances, try to point the roads to peace, but in the end, they must want it for themselves, knowing what the alternatives are.

Got to get folks to deal with their own ethical infants within their societies....the billion and a half Muslims who've rejected bin Laden's interpretation of , and call to Jihad , who've rejected IRI Mullah's terrorist supporting idiocy, WMD programs, and incitement of violence,along with threats to other nations... that billion and a half who love their children too, understand:

Terrorists, in their methodology have been killing innocent Muslims, In Iraq, London, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kashmir, USA, (9/11), Kenya, Lebanon, and a host of other nations in many attacks over the years.

These attacks against civilians...innocents, regardless of any so-called intended target or purpose, political or otherwise are in direct violation of the Islamic code of conduct of Jihad. The article linked will explain further:

http://tinyurl.com/l2fzf

According to three top scholars interviewed by the BBC News website, jihad can only be called in the following circumstances:

"-If a Muslim community comes under attack, then jihad becomes an obligation for all Muslims, male and female, in that community
-If that particular community feels it cannot fight off attackers on its own, then jihad becomes incumbent on Muslims living in nearby communities
-If a Muslim ruler of a country calls for jihad, then it is incumbent upon the Muslims living under that ruler to join the jihad. "

These attacks, and the terrorists...apostates of Islam who have perpetrated them, instigated and supported terrorism itself have placed Muslim communities at risk, both directly and indirectly, taking innocent life, and causing political unrest within the religion of Islam, and fear within the community of Islam. Fear both from the violence emenating from within segments of Islam, and the fear that the non-Muslim societies of the world will make blanket condemnation of Islam as a result of a small violent percentage of the global Muslim population's attempts to interpret Islam for their own political and power mongering ends, to which the word "harim" is a pale description.

The targeting of Mosques, the violent division attempted via terrorist acts between Sunni and Shiite sects of Islam, as well as the direct threat to the teachings of Islam, posed by those who support terrorism, also represent a threat to "the community" as a whole. The community is under attack from within.

It is self evident that all communities are being attacked, all peoples, all civilization. Jihad becomes incumbent on Muslims living in all communities to address the threat to it from within their own communities.

Muslim rulers of Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, and many others have joined the "war on terrorism" the global jihad against terrorists which includes as it's allies, and brothers in arms those nations that are not Muslim, but have significant Muslim populations within their sovereign boundaries.
These non-Muslim nations, recognizing the risk to all peoples in their lands, including Muslims, have called for solidarity in this fight from all Muslims of true heart and mind. Iraqis, Afghan and many Muslims are now engaged side by side with US and coalition forces in the global war on terrorism and in the global war of ideas, as expressed by many clerics and leaders opposed to the violent interpretation of Islam as expoused by the leadership of Iran and al quaida, Hisbollah, Hamas...and other terrorist entities and supporters.

Let there be no ambiguity in this logic. Let their be no hiding place, no sanctuary given, no sponsor of terror, no terrorist left to promote violence in the name of religion once this jihad against terror is justly called for by all Muslims of true faith, and finished. Then Islam can be truly called a "religion of peace" and coexist in harmony with the peoples of the world.

This American Bhuddist "infidel" has no side to be on in this personally, I'm just sick of being witness to it. Just as the Japanese Military Sho-gun mentality ursurped Bhuddist thinking prior to Pearl Harbor and WW2, so too the muslim umma may take a lesson from history of my faith and apply it to whatever future you seek for yourselves...and your children, and their children...coexistance? or the alternative expoused by the radical among you??? I see valid parallel to the leadership of Iran in their words and deeds to the Japanese of 75 years ago.

As an American, I view the attempts to create religious conflicts via terrorism, propaganda and extremism as a threat to our national interests and those of the world's community at large. We are the melting pot of the world, cultures and people...90 different nations lost contrymen on 9/11...it is a global fight, not simply against terrorism, but a fight to live in a sane world that will be worth raising a family in.
As a Human, I can only hope for an elevation of the level of consciousness within societies to deal with the fanatics within them in whatever effective methods neccessary to re-establish Islam as a religion of peace, at peace with all mankind. Fourteen hundred years after the birth of Crist, that religion went through it's "dark ages", and came out of it in "renasance". Fourteen hundred years after Mohhamed, Islam is now in the throws of it's own "dark age". The question of a "renasance of Islam" is moot, all things change...if you do not believe me, find me one person on Earth that believes it is flat.

And so too will pass the belief in Sharia law that a woman is worth exactly half that of a man in an Iranian court of law, as well as the belief that is is incumbent on those of the Shiite 12'lver sect of Islam (including the leaders of Iran) to prepare the conditions apocalyptic return of the mahdi, who is then supposedly to save the world....or what's left of it.

Those of the Muslim faith, as well as those Iranians who read this have my great sympathy for the choice that you must now make as individuals, to preserve your nation and the umma itself from those who lead a great nation, religion and people over oblivion's cliff.

I read excerpts from Qaradawi's web site and was sickened to see God linked to such calls to violence, self- pity and hatred of Jews and Americans, such malicious propaganda and lies, that can only result not in peace but more destruction. Pope Benedict is right on the money by challenging Muslims to explain how they can invoke God's blessings for such acts of violence against His own children.
About these Crusades, these wars were fought to regain land lost to Muslim conquerors not vice versa. They would not have been fought if Muslims had not tried to spread their religion by the sword in the first place. Not a Muslim alive has lived through the Crusades. Not a pope alive today thinks we should fight a religious war. That is the point Pope Benedict is trying to make to Muslims who could understand if they could just silence their animosity and hear what anyone else is trying to say. So let's stop with the Crusades. Christianity long ago renounced using violence in God's name. This seems to be a point that Muslims conveniently forget. You would think Muslims never started a war. Look at Darfur. On 9/11 Americans were attacked viciously by Muslim Crusaders. It is puzzling to the rest of the non-Muslim world as to why Muslims are never at fault and as to why they believe they are entitled to hurt other people, essentially to do whatever they want to anyone else and become so indignant when other question them about this violence in the name of Islam. What kind of religion permits such anger and self- pity and violent reactions to the basic problems and struggles in life? Do Muslims think the West can ever respect this brutality? Christianity long ago laid down its sword. The pope is asking Islam to do the same. It is not God's way to wield a sword.
Joan

An Op-ed on the Somali nun's murder:

"I forgive", she said, "I forgive". True to her nature of kindness, altruism and a heart devoid of rancor and vengeance, Sister Leonella Sgorbati, had with these words taught a lesson to her cowardly killers in her last breath of life.

She was adamant to the last minute to emphasize that the criminal action of a few lost souls were not going to rob her of her love for humanity and the beauty of forgiveness. She refused her goodness to be defeated by evil and her humanitarian mission to be overshadowed by cruelty. She lived as an angel of mercy and died as a saint.

Just like her countrywoman Annalena Tonelli before here, sister Leonella Sgorbati viewed her killers as misguided and disturbed individuals who needed her help and being on her deathbed the only help she could offer was to embrace them and protect them despite their despicable action.

Like Annalena, Sister Leonella had for many years cared for the orphaned children, the mental patients, the infirm elders, the sick and abandoned individuals and the marginalized children of God. She chose her Spartan life in Somalia to a life of plenty in her own country. She found her paradise in caring for the sick and the destitute in one of the most dangerous places and culturally one of the most ungrateful people on earth.

As a martyr she lived and as a martyr she died. And heaven knows that she will reap the good she sowed on earth in the life after.

She forgave her killers because unlike us ordinary human beings she saw that evil could only be defeated by goodness. But we ordinary human beings know that there are certain evil men that cannot be transformed by any amount of good. We, therefore, demand these hapless and mean human beings be brought to justice and punished for their heinous crime.

It is time for the Islamists of Mogadishu to stop shifting the blame and act responsibly to bring these culprits to justice. It is time for them to prove to the world that Islamic justice is not only about flogging delinquents and burning music videos but also protecting and respecting human life regardless of race and religion.

It is about time that they show the world that those foreigners who care for our poor and our sick are holier and deserve God�s mercy more than any self proclaimed cleric who sees nothing but evil come from people of other religions.

http://www.awdalnews.com/wmview.php?ArtID=7905

Democratic west is not equipped to fight Islam. Islam from the start spread by the sword. There is no room for compromise with Islam. All Muslims will celebrate if Osama Bin Laden wins. There can be peace loving Muslim unless he/she renounces Islam. The clash of civilisation is on. Muslims are eager to fight and they already declared war on the west. The west has yet to come to grip with the idea. Goth may be a good man. I veture to say he too will celebrate the victory of Islam. Muslims are possesed by Allah. They can't think rationally as long as they believe in Allah. If they think rationaally they will renounce Islam and stop believing Mohammad received messages from Allah.

I tend to agree with Mr. Goth's commentary and believe that if we think we've got an issue that can be solved by simply getting religious scholars to find the "common ground" we are frankly lying to ourselves.

Religion is a deeply personal commitment for many people around the world, which makes it the best vehicle possible for stirring emotions and action... both productive and destructive. American aren't immune to it either, hence the intertwining of faith and politics that is so often a part of our debates over certain issues. It's divisive, it motivates people and it causes people to choose sides. It also causes people to stray away from seeking out the root causes of the issues we face and stand firm on what they consider their "principals"... That is precisely why church and state are separated.

I sincerely hope the next administration... and next set of elected officials in the congressional branch of government spend more time seeking out the root causes of "terrorism, islamic radicalism, fundamentalism"- call it what you will. There is a growing segment of people in the world who live among millions of everyday people who feel that the West is their sworn enemy... I've yet to hear one thoughtful comment about why that may be from those in our government making decisions.

>>>renowned scholars, Sheikh Yousef Al Qaradawi

you must think we're not paying attention ...

http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/al_Qaradawi_report_20041110.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_2

>>>interfaith dialogue is a non-starter

Right. Especially with people who believe their faith must be spread by the sword ...

If people want war, they'll grasp at anything remotely related to justify their desires to begin/to escalate a war(s).
Look back at 9/11 & the remote justification for that war?
I commend the author of this article & I abhor any country who will use faulty information to justify violence towards any other country.

Like so many people who react to religion rather than seek to understand it, Bashir Goth's commentary fails to understand what "religion" actually is. He claims, "Religiosity and religious anger is the weapon of the desperate and the weak." However, "religiosity" can mean a wide range of thoughts and behaviors, whether Christian or Islamic. For example, the great Sufi (Islamic) poet Rumi would find much in common with Christian poets such as St. John of the Cross, while violent Islamic terrorists would find much in common with Christians fighting against, say, the Moors, in an earlier age. In either case, religiosity has nothing to do with "desperation" or "weakness," but with a desire to live authentically and faithfully. Religious dialogue (not "debate") is both necessary and possible, and the only effective way to find the common ground that the author seeks: economic and social justice that honors the dignity of all humans and all creation.