Ahmet looks out over the channel below. Ships inch by. Beyond them, layered red roofs and minarets undulate on the Asian side of Istanbul. And next to him, punks, bohemian-sheeks, modest Anatolians, fashionistas, and bedraggled test-takers gossip together. Ahmet stares past it all.
Ahmet was one of nine children who grew up in Mersin city, within a Kurdish neighborhood called Yeni Pazar, which means "new bazaar." The bazaar was far from new. Ahmet's under-resourced primary school, Hatice, scrunched 60 students together into each classroom. In the afternoons, Ahmet helped his father earn money by pushing one of their vegetable carts around town. He read books over potatoes and watermelons.
Then, in eighth grade Ahmet surprised everyone by maxing out on the national standard exam. His score earned him a place at a prestigious boarding school, the Teacher Training High School, where he picked up English and recognized his knack for languages. He went on to the prestigious Bosphorus University, where he pursued his interest in language.
That summer, Ahmet paid $3,000 of his scholarship money to a Turkish travel-exchange company to see the American experiment first hand. He was partly skeptical, expecting black Americans to sympathize with him because he was a fellow minority, and white Americans to show him relative indifference.
He was surprised by what he observed between June and September, 2004, serving breakfast and lunch at a local Ocean City diner. Ahmet found that identifiers like age and gender had far more to do with how people related to him in America than did race or ethnicity.
"For example, when I had a hard time understanding the teenagers [ordering food] in English, they would say, 'If you don't understand our language why are you here? Why are you in America?!' I was so upset I never expected these kinds of statements from black and Mexican teenagers."
Then, he befriended a 70-plus-year-old white American couple from Pennsylvania. "They asked me about my life as a student in the university and about what I cared about.” When Ahmet told them of his interest in languages and minority rights, they asked, "Do you have a girlfriend?" to which Ahmet sheepishly lied and said, "Yes."
"Too bad," the old couple responded, "Our adopted daughter is from India. She speaks seven languages and is in medical school and is also concerned about minorities." Ahmed had missed his chance. He learned English without pressing tongues, he admits.
Now he's back in Istanbul, designing a bilingual Kurdish-Turkish syllabus he hopes may be implemented one day. "Multilingualism is part of multiculturalism," he says, buzzwords ringing, "Knowing many languages makes people more sociable, more democratic, more empathic, and more humanistic."
"America is not a perfect model," he cautions, but some of its foundational texts and ideas did inspire Ahmet when he entered university. And on the Maryland shoreline, he saw that "In the U.S., people are people: black, white, all with red blood. You never know who tips well or who is rude just by their looks.”
"I know where I stayed [Ocean City] is a holiday place, a rest place. Maybe it's not representative of America. But then again you can never make a generalization about a country, or even a group of people. Everyone is different. That is what I am trying to say."
Comments (74)
Spiridon,
Love your wikipedia comments, why don't you wikipedia George Horton (the guy who wrote Blight of Asia) and see how he demonized Turks 20 years before Smyrna.... An Osama Bin Laden if you will...
May 11, 2008 8:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 11, 2008 20:23
Anybody else wants to carry on with false claims and unsupported, malicious attacks? Where's that genious quebecer from Montreal? Where's your response? Bunch of hypocratical biased racist people! Just because you're in Canada, US or UK, do you really think you can throw a slime on the history and expect it to become blurry forever?
Anyway, PKK terrorists (NOT Kurdish "rebels" or "guerillas" nor "Freedom Fighters" got their rear ends kicked with fire. Hopefully they won't be sneaking up our border, then attack and kill our people anymore.
HEY, spiton, the Quebecois!!!! Why somebody like yourself, in the deep freeze of Montreal in winter, worry about the article 301 of the constitution of Turkey? Why the hell do you worry about it? It's meant for the citizens of the Republic of Turkey. Unfortunately, some of them have plans of seperating the country (like you'd know being from Quebec) and this article is meant for them, not for you. Also, go back to the link you sent and re-read the article. It's just a normal law, not a fascist or discriminating in any way.
Anyway, tell me: WHY THE HELL DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THE ARTICLE 301 OF THE TURKISH CONSTITUTION??? WHY?
December 17, 2007 5:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 17, 2007 05:45
Monsieur S,
Turkey is located in a very nasty neighborhood. Almost everybody around wants a piece of us. Armenians, Kurds, Greeks are the obvious ones. Arabs and Iranians don't claim land but they want us to be more radical muslims. They don't like that we drink and -most of- our women are not wrapped up in black bed sheets. Although, when they come to Turkey, they enjoy our Raki & wines as well as topless beaches. (By the way, FYI: I live in BC, Canada and I have very good Greek friends, but their government does not let go easy. Greeks and us share almost every aspect of life, down to the arts, music etc. except religion. We should be the best neighbors. We're so much alike.) Kurds are absolutely fine, except the fanatic ones who use violance and guided by other foe forces. Armenians on the other hand... I swear they're nuts! I could not make any friends myself, but my Turkish friend is dating an Armenian girl. Her parents are not happy about it. Almost all of them hate us with a passion. They talk to me as if I committed the famous "killings" with my own hands. Are they crazy or what? I read some British history books, which clearly say: "Armenians who live in Eastern Ottoman Empire joined forces with Russians upon their "land" promise and attacked Turks who ended up winning the fight." Of course, they don't say it wasn't an organized ethnic cleansing. That's why the Armenians in Istanbul or Western Turkey were not forced to move, only the ones close to the Russian border. OK, perhaps that was not a nice thing to do, but it was 1915 and it was the WW-I. Nobody denies that many Armenians have died but also Turks had died as well. We don't want to be labeled as "nazis", just because we're NOT.
Sultan Fatih Mehmet, The Conqueror thought a lesson in human rights back in 1453 by allowing the main Greek and Armenian churches remain untouched physically as well as their functions. That's why they still exist in Istanbul. Turks have been living in harmony with every nation and religion ever since. Even we accepted large numbers of exiled Jews from Europe twice, tens of thousands of Afghans escaping from Russian red army and over a million Kurds running away from Saddam's forces back in 90-91.
Where was I? Aha, bad neighborhood. Article 301 was a necessity but it's flawed, no question about it. There are articles like that in Western countries' constitutions, but they're not as heavy handed as the "301". I think 301 mixes up "critcism" with "insult". As I said, it was made due to necessity. The sad but true fact is: Many Turks are not educated well. Illiteracy rate is low, but being "educated" is indeed necessary for making correct analysis of the situation, comprehand it well so the right democratic decisions can be made. Otherwise it's not that difficult to drag masses behind some radical religious and/or ethnic ideals. Despite the democratic improvements, these type of "bandwagons" are full and ready to roll. Econimical hardship is also a great cause of easily influencing masses. Both of these negatives are present in Turkey, especially, way more so in the Eastern provinces. So, bottom line: Article 301 is doomed to be revised to a lighter note. I don't see it being dropped all-together.
Mon Francais est oxydee,anyway ok, my French is rusty. Is this a satisfactory response?
My question: Why people worry about Article 301? They can say what they have to say without attacking "Turkishness". Well, because their problem is to create a division in between Kurds and Turks, so Turkey would be easier to break it up. Who really wants to do this? The US,UK and France. The land is so strategic and so rich in every resource, it's irresistably attractive. Believe it or not, there are some people who think Sevres agreement is in effect, but don't accept it being null & void due to the Lausanne Agreement.
Jehangir
November 17, 2007 4:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 04:01
@ Turk,
Habibi,
I understand your position on the matter but please tell us about your impressions about the teaching of history in Turkey.
It is interesting how you claim that your version of history, which goes against the international accepted eye witness reports, is the truth.
I would like to point out to you that the Turkish version of the truth is greatly compromised by the constant attempts by Turkey to alter the facts, or simply punish anyone who makes these facts available.
Please comment on Article 301.
I have found a simple definition on this in the following link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_(Turkish_penal_code)
I will quote from the first paragraph but would like your response on the relevance on this law and how it relates to the teaching of history in Turkey.
"Article 301 is a controversial article of the Turkish penal code, taking effect on June 1, 2005, and introduced as part of a package of penal-law reform in the process preceding the opening of negotiations for Turkish membership of the European Union (EU), in order to bring Turkey up to EU standards. It makes it a crime to insult "Turkishness". Since this Article became law, charges have been brought in more than 60 cases, some of which are high-profile. Büyük Hukukçular Birliği ("Great Jurists Union") headed by Kemal Kerinçsiz, a Turkish lawyer, is "behind nearly all of [301 trials]". Kerinçsiz himself is responsible for forty of the trials, including the high-profile ones."
****
J'ai bien compris votre réaction mais je voudrais une réponse.
Meilleures salutations,
Spiridon
Montreal Canada
November 15, 2007 12:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 12:48
Hey Speedo,
Have you ever been in Izmir and 400km radius around it? It's like an open air museum. Going back 4000 years, the oldest rock-built bridge in the world as well as more antique Ionian, Lydian, Roman and Byzentium ruins... probably more than what today's Greece has. What artifacts are destroyed? They're all there.
Don't believe everything you read. First of all, it's so illogical to burn down the entire city that you're trying to recapture, because it was yours to begin with. It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, losers (occupying Greeks) wanted to leave the city in ruins as they were escaping by sea as soon as they realized they're lost.
Also, as if Western history books are always fair and unbiased as well as Western diplomats, especially from chaotic war times. If you think Western history books are telling the truth, nothing but the truth, you're grossy mistaken.
Besides, if Turks burned down Izmir, it may not be written in Turkish history books, but we would have heard about it. You can't shut everybody up about something so outragous and in grand scale. To top it all, arrival of the Turkish forces into Izmir in Sept.9th.1922 has been filmed. You can clearly see what's going on with your own eyes.
As a personal witness, I grew up in Izmir, there are so many old (200, 300+years) buildings, homes in Izmir. Greeks burned down the government offices to clear their documents that left behind.
Izmir also have very old 4 Greek, 3 Anglican and 5 French/Italian Catholic churches, as well as 2 synagogs. All these buildings are couple of hundred years old, still functional in Izmir. Brand new churches also have been built. If Turks burned the place down in a plundering rage, with that hype and anger, probably they'd have burned down these places first.
As we say: Sun can not be covered up with smearing mud. The truth can not be kept secret forever. You should double-check your sources on this info.
I will not respond to any other claim/argument regarding this matter, because it's pointless no matter how many ex-US or other European ambassador stories you can come up with. Make sure you don't freeze your brain like the rest of Montreal.
C'est la vie mon cher!
November 15, 2007 3:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 03:57
Hey Speedo,
Have you ever been in Izmir and 400km radius around it? It's like an open air museum. Going back 4000 years, the oldest rock-built bridge in the world as well as more antique Ionian, Lydian, Roman and Byzentium ruins... probably more than what today's Greece has. What artifacts are destroyed? They're all there.
Don't believe everything you read. First of all, it's so illogical to burn down the entire city that you're trying to recapture, because it was yours to begin with. It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, losers (occupying Greeks) wanted to leave the city in ruins as they were escaping by sea as soon as they realized they're lost.
Also, as if Western history books are always fair and unbiased as well as Western diplomats, especially from chaotic war times. If you think Western history books are telling the truth, nothing but the truth, you're grossy mistaken.
Besides, if Turks burned down Izmir, it may not be written in Turkish history books, but we would have heard about it. You can't shut everybody up about something so outragous and in grand scale. To top it all, arrival of the Turkish forces into Izmir in Sept.9th.1922 has been filmed. You can clearly see what's going on with your own eyes.
As a personal witness, I grew up in Izmir, there are so many old (200, 300+years) buildings, homes in Izmir. Greeks burned down the government offices to clear their documents that left behind.
Izmir also have very old 4 Greek, 3 Anglican and 5 French/Italian Catholic churches, as well as 2 synagogs. All these buildings are couple of hundred years old, still functional in Izmir. Brand new churches also have been built. If Turks burned the place down in a plundering rage, with that hype and anger, probably they'd have burned down these places first.
As we say: Sun can not be covered up with smearing mud. The truth can not be kept secret forever. You should double-check your sources on this info.
I will not respond to any other claim/argument regarding this matter, because it's pointless no matter how many ex-US or other European ambassador stories you can come up with. Make sure you don't freeze your brain like the rest of Montreal.
C'est la vie mon cher!
November 15, 2007 3:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 03:53
Hey Speedo,
Have you ever been in Izmir and 400km radius around it? It's like an open air museum. Going back 4000 years, the oldest rock-built bridge in the world as well as more antique Ionian, Lydian, Roman and Byzentium ruins... probably more than what today's Greece has. What artifacts are destroyed? They're all there.
Don't believe everything you read. First of all, it's so illogical to burn down the entire city that you're trying to recapture, because it was yours to begin with. It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, losers (occupying Greeks) wanted to leave the city in ruins as they were escaping by sea as soon as they realized they're lost.
Also, as if Western history books are always fair and unbiased as well as Western diplomats, especially from chaotic war times. If you think Western history books are telling the truth, nothing but the truth, you're grossy mistaken.
Besides, if Turks burned down Izmir, it may not be written in Turkish history books, but we would have heard about it. You can't shut everybody up about something so outragous and in grand scale. To top it all, arrival of the Turkish forces into Izmir in Sept.9th.1922 has been filmed. You can clearly see what's going on with your own eyes.
As a personal witness, I grew up in Izmir, there are so many old (200, 300+years) buildings, homes in Izmir. Greeks burned down the government offices to clear their documents that left behind.
Izmir also have very old 4 Greek, 3 Anglican and 5 French/Italian Catholic churches, as well as 2 synagogs. All these buildings are couple of hundred years old, still functional in Izmir. Brand new churches also have been built. If Turks burned the place down in a plundering rage, with that hype and anger, probably they'd have burned down these places first.
As we say: Sun can not be covered up with smearing mud. The truth can not be kept secret forever. You should double-check your sources on this info.
I will not respond to any other claim/argument regarding this matter, because it's pointless no matter how many ex-US or other European ambassador stories you can come up with. Make sure you don't freeze your brain like the rest of Montreal.
November 15, 2007 3:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 03:53
@ The Turk,
I am sure you think you are right since you read the only history book available in your country, but if you look at the American and other International observers present in Smyrna, you will notice that your history books have been written by the same people who advocated Article 301 in your country.
Thank you for your cultural point of view; we will stick to the history reported and known to be true, though we have no problem with entertaining your position.
You might ask yourself though, how is it possible for the Greeks to destroy 3000 years old artifacts, if they only served to substantiate their presence there for that time.
You might also ask yourself whether all the others, like the Armenians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians... also were at fault like you claim the Kurds are presently at fault and thereby giving Turkey the right to brutalize them.
Thank you for your history, we will stick to the version that is proven as true.
antibaro.gr/references/Horton_The_Blight_of_Asia.pdf
THE BLIGHT OF ASIA
An Account of the Systematic Extermination of Christian Populations by
Mohammedans
and of the Culpability of Certain Great Powers; with the True Story of the Burning of
Smyrna
By
GEORGE HORTON
For Thirty Years Consul and Consul-General of the United States in the Near East
With a Foreword by
JAMES W. GERARD
Former Ambassador to Germany
Spiridon
Montreal Canada
November 14, 2007 12:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 12:09
Spiridon from Montreal.
It's obvious that you're either a fanatic Greek or Armenian having some axe to grind with unrelated issues. For your info: The Greeks burned down Izmir just before their asses were kicked and fell in the Aegean, LITERALLY. Sept. 9th. 1922 marks the end of Turkey's independence war, which was fought against UK, France, Italy, Greeks, Russians and backstubbing your friendy neighborhood Armenians. What a crock of crap that "Ottomans" burned Izmir??? There was no physically "Ottoman Empire" left after 1920 and the "empire" left in the palace in Istanbul became full history in 1922. What a made-up, outrageous and ridecilious lie!
November 14, 2007 3:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 14, 2007 03:35
@ Great Read,
I agree with A.C. Bakshi. Thank you for the link.
If anyone is interested in a great PDF book on the burning and destruction of Smyrna by the Ottomans in 1922, as documented by the US Ambassador at the time, I will post the link.
Peace.
Spiridon
Montreal Canada
November 9, 2007 3:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 15:36
Hi, Thank you for this reading suggestion. I will print it out and read it on the plane to Lebanon shortly. Many thanks again.
November 8, 2007 6:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 18:50
Dear Amar,
When you have time, here is a link (see below) from which you will benefit, as you consider the totality of your experience in Turkey. Hear the voices of the past, and how Turkey has left its indelible mark on millions.
http://www.interlitq.org/content/issue1/thalia_pandiri/thalia_pandiri.html
Blessings to you, and safe travels.
November 8, 2007 4:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 16:08
WOW!
That's a lot of Turkish bravado. Why don't we talk about the real issues now.
****
To anyone interested in formulating an objective and personal opinion on the matter at hand, a good place to start is by reading where the Turkish problems come from. Please copy/paste the line below into your browser and simply read the thousands of Human Rights violations by Turkey as listed by the organization HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH:
hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=turkey
****
Spiridon
Montreal Canada
November 7, 2007 10:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 10:36
Hey Kurd, from Northern Irak...
You say: "Liberated Iraq"????? Dream on baby! You'll be a full strings attached puppets of US, used as a bumper country against Iran and as a source of nuisance for Turkey which is not wanted to get any stronger in that region due to US' desire to have as much power and control in the region as possible. That's your function and PKK seems like doing just that fine.
Besides, for your knowledge: North, like the rest of Iraq, is currently being invaded and occupied. The head of drugs and weapons (as well as oil and many other goods) smuggler ring head hancho Barzani and Talabani are not real statesmen, they're just hired actors by the US. Are you guys brave enough to go down the well with US' rope?
November 6, 2007 2:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 02:25
You're welcome Victoria.
November 3, 2007 3:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 03:58
Hey, thanks for using my name to post something that isn't mine, tough guy.
November 2, 2007 1:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 2, 2007 01:52
Iraq, Turkey, Syria are not that old either. Their boundaries are fake.
November 1, 2007 6:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 1, 2007 18:23
Ow, wow Kurd! I guess you've even heard about Northern United States (Canada) and Southern United States (Mexico)!
Let's be realistic. That'd be like Mexico calling Texas "North Mexico." Sure, technically, Texas used to be Mexican territory. A long time ago. California used to be Mexican territory as well. You don't hear the French calling Oklahoma "West France."
Get over yourself. Kurdistan doesn't exist and nobody is going to support it. America wouldn't even set your "East Kurdistan" free from Iran. And you're fooling yourself if you think anyone is going to jump on the political drive to tell Turkey that its southern region should be its own country.
All this rhetoric on a Kurdistan that doesn't exist is really getting on my nerves.
November 1, 2007 3:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 1, 2007 15:11
Some political terms. These are the names of 4 new mini-states composing “ Great Kurdistan”. They are banned in most of the under-mentioned countries and one even could face life-imprisonment or execution for just referring to them.
Iranian occupied Kurdistan: East Kurdistan
Iraqi liberated Kurdistan: South Kurdistan
Turkish occupied Kurdistan: North Kurdistan
Syrian occupied Kurdistan: West Kurdistan
East + West + North + South = The Great Kurdistan
October 31, 2007 11:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2007 23:40
thank you mr seaborn
October 31, 2007 1:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 31, 2007 01:24
Chairs? They'll put anything in their spaces! And if you're riding your winter rat, you'll push it out of the way with your bumper while you park! This trick only works in summer when people are driving their nice cars and don't want to do any damage to them. Or maybe I'm just not a nice guy...
Anyway, no...he was yelling at me because I was in the fire lane. That was hilarious. He was screaming about what would happen if the building was burning and the fire truck couldn't pull up. It's hilarious and ironic now, but I was hopping mad right about then.
And just because you don't live there doesn't mean you don't come from there. We all come from somewhere. Most of us come from a lot of places. I can go anywhere in the world, but I'm a jagoff out of Southside that moved into Columbus at heart.
October 30, 2007 9:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2007 21:12
I honestly am having such a difficult time understanding how people act these days here in America. When I was young I was considered a Hippie/Flower Child. But we cared about each other. We were fighting against racism, prejudice and intolerances of all types.
When I was 19 I was invited to go to live as long as I wished by illigal Mexican Migrant workers. I took them up on their offer. These men were picking fruit in the hot sun so they could support their families for the rest of the year. And yet they wanted to pay my way to go to their small village in the desert.
Three days on a bus and a long taxi ride and I was in a small village with no cars, no safe drinking water for three miles, and no toilets or electricity except some of the people had a lightbulb as they had just gotten electricity the year before.
These people treated me like family. They all took turns sharing their homes with me. I wanted to stay forever but I knew they could not afford to feed me.. even though they would have. I stayed two months and they all chipped in and sent me back when I was ready.
My point is this: Hate begats hate. Somewhere after all the progress we were making back then against racism... it reared it's ugly head again.
I can tell you the problem with America in two words: GREED and SELFISHNESS. I think it applies to all things in all countries. I would also add the word INTOLERANCE.
I actually lost my faith after a lifetime of living it with vigor and conviction. I do not like what religion causes in respect to wars and hatred. If there was a god... a supreme being of any kind... you cannot convince me he or she would be happy with the way we treat each other.
Everyone I meet from a poor country has a heart as big as a mountain. I watched many of my Mexican friends move to the U.S. and over time I watched them lose sight of who they were. It is easy for people to get caught up in the greed and forget what is really important. Most families here are not close at all compared to those from poor countries. I am 55 and dying. I wish I could convince you all to just stop arguing about who and what is right.
When I found out I was going to die I wrote 6o typed pages to my children so they would have all the knowledge and wisdom I wanted to leave with them. It was too long. They would not remember. I reduced it to 10 pages, 3 pages, 1 page. It was still too long. I knew they would not remember. So I went out and bought bright orange neon cards and I took a black marker and wrote the following: "This is the sum total of all my knowledge and wisdom:
1. Love everyone.
2. Forgive everyone.
3. Judge no one.
I knew they could remember that. In closing, I met a young Kurdish man after emailing him back and forth for a few weeks. He came and stayed in my home for the weekend. I have never met a finer man in my life. I hope all of you who read this lose all of your intolerance, greed. selfishness and use your minds and hearts to treat each other the way you would want to be treated... no matter who the person is, no matter what they look like, believe, their religious preference, sexual preference, etc. Just treat everyone the way you want to be treated.
"Evil flourishes when good people do nothing."
"If you want to get to the other side of the lake, tow someone else's boat and lo... yours will be there also."
I read those when I was 12 years old and never forgot them. Go see the movie 'Ghandi' starring Ben Kingsly. It is long and not action packed. No special effects. But it's message is powerful
and moving. Surround yourselves with happy tolerant people and learn to enjoy all the differences in each other. The only prejudice a person should have is the prejudice of prejudice.
May you all come to know the happiness I have known in my life.
My love and best wishes to all of you and for your loved ones and even for your enemies.
So let it be written...So let it be done.
Joseph Seaborn gaspdesign@earthlink.net
October 30, 2007 7:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2007 19:22
Dear Mr. Gandhi,
If you will base your opinion on Turkey on Mr. Bakshi's writings, it is really saddening. I symphatize with your support to him as a journalist who seems to be of the same country of origin with you. But when it comes to getting an objective understanding, it would take much more than Mr. Bakshi's fluent writings in a thriller mood with a romantic view to supporters of PKK killers who have taken lives of more than 30000 innocent Turkish people including babies and other civilians for over 20 years now. Truth surely has many versions, so does history and consequently anyone can be seriously misleaded by the biased kind of it. But of course, distorted truth might be just what you need to convince a credible audience if you aim to lay a legitimate foundation for seperatist terrorist organizations like PKK. Such is the gratitude we receive from United States media for sending Turkish soldiers to Afghanistan to help United States with their search of Al-Qaida. Terror done to US is terror definitely, but terror done to Turkey? Well maybe or not even that much so…
October 30, 2007 9:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2007 09:05
southsiders put kitchen chairs on the street to save parking spaces- i have never seen any city in america that does this- or actually honors it -
maybe he was getting his chair vic and you beat him to it
thanks for the yinzer talk- it reminds me that i actually came from someplace a long time ago :)
October 30, 2007 2:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 30, 2007 02:29
I know it's bad to knock the homeless. There's actually a guy who sits there singing all the time out on High St for change. The poor guy's just so happy all the time, even though he has nothing, that I've bought him lunch a couple times. He was a cleaner at OSU until they fired him, or so he says. Nice guy.
There was a movement last year, though, that is moving the homeless farther north with a lot of initiatives. I hardly see the guy anymore. Hopefully he'll be able to get out of that rut someday.
I feel bad about saying anything about the homeless situation... and then I'm in Pittsburgh on Carson's St. and some guy shows up demanding that I move my car because I'm parked illegally. He says this from in front of my car. I keep telling him to move, and he gets mad and yells at ME to move. I'm the one illegally parked, he's just standing in the street. Then I don't feel so bad.
October 29, 2007 6:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 29, 2007 18:07
After Reading comments from many writers here defending the northern Irqai region, does anyone question that this region is a terrorist haven? when US led invasion occrued the saddam army depots were opened and hundreds of thousands of all kinds of military explosives,machines guns equipment were looted. Plus over 190 thousand guns were somehow! been stolen from the US Army goverment depots. Now iraq is a big weapon open market. Where is the iraq security? Where is the US military security? and how about Barzani Talabani organized crime family security forces? No one is talking about this? a total failure of security effecting every country that neigbors Iraq! Including Turkey
The pandora box has been opened with the 2003 invasion and the reponsibility lies whoever opened this. Turkey has decided to defend itself against this terrorist haven of northern iraq and has the whole Turkish nation behind it. Turkish peoples livelyhood is at stake and each citizen is ready to defend itself against this encirlement of enemies and terrorists.
October 29, 2007 5:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 29, 2007 17:33
Amar,
Thank you for bringing all these diverse voices to our notice. The aspect of your reporting that I admire and enjoy the most is your ability and integrity in letting the "individual's" voice come through. I love the way you manage to keep the humanity of everyone you interview at the forefront of all your stories.
Well done!
October 29, 2007 11:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 29, 2007 11:33
ill give you some off topic fun vic-
i fed homeless people a 100 a day for a year in '87 in venice beach with 2 slightly inebriated ex hare krishnas- (i was christian mystic flavor)
one time ed bradley from 60 minutes was interviewing people-
a homeless guy i knew well whose license actually read jesus h.christ- ( i am not kidding he thought jesus middle? name was h)
obligatory long blond hair and dirty beard was complaining to ed that the christians wouldnt even give jesus a pbj sandwich.
he was hopping mad too- i fed him every day and he didnt want my christian food- he wanted the other christians sandwich.
true story
ed bore him pretty bemusedly but patiently
peace
October 29, 2007 12:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 29, 2007 00:33
Hey, can we get a homeless guy off the street, Amar? Nothing says fun like the craziest people in the world getting a shot at the mic.
Or one of the religious nut jobs? Not like a respectable religious leader, but someone we can all agree is a nut case. Like the guy who stands on OSU's Oval in good weather screaming at people who walk by how damned they are.
If for nothing else, than just to see the comments people drop. If they think THIS is unconventional, just wait until we get the Turkish version of the American homeless, "the world is being bought by politicians and paid for by aliens living in Nevada" speech.
I don't know, I'm sick but in a good mood today.
October 28, 2007 6:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 28, 2007 18:30
Kurdish people are never had a country.They always lived as a nomad.Why are they need a state now,for themselves or for USA? Realy who needs new Kurdish state?I dont need answer it is very clear.
October 28, 2007 6:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 28, 2007 18:27
Sorry to have been away from the comment threads for a few days. I read them with a mixture of emotions, and wanted to make sure when I re-engaged, I could do so productively.
There are many feelings swirling around right now, and as a rather unconventional reporter, my job is to present a different viewpoint each day as accurately as possible.
That said, Turkey is as multifaceted and multi-layered as Istanbul is as a city, and every community I turn to here as a very specific voice. This is wonderful for this project, as long as each post is read in the context of an ongoing series.
I have received numerous emails from secular, patriotic Turks who say I am not representing Turkey, to which I would re-quote Ahmet's last line, which sums up my position as well as any. But at the same time, I do want to reflect the voices of many Turks in Istanbul who I have met who want to develop Turkey along secular lines, don't believe there are serious divisions within the country, and have total faith in the democratic process (incidentally, Ahmet is one of those people, though he is a Kurd).
So this coming week, Hassan and Victoria and a number of others who have been waiting for a certain Turkish voice will likely here it, for indeed, like Ahmet's voice, it exists within Turkey, and I have been confronted by it.
I greatly appreciate all the conversation you are having. Each post is a snapshot, and your back-and-forth enriches the site, so it's useful for those who want to drill down deeper into each issue raised and see alternate points of view. For that I am very grateful.
The post that just went up is likely to be somewhat controversial as well, about the Gulen movement, but this coming week I am posting on musicians, and will almost certainly be going to Izmir to hear the perspective there.
Right now I'm meeting up with a reader named Holiday in Taksim Square. She got in touch when I was still in the U.S. to let me know she'd be here. Should be an interesting time. I will be back and spend much of the day tomorrow responding to the comments raised over the past week.
October 27, 2007 12:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 27, 2007 12:48
You say:
"What happened to the "Bush doctrine"? Remember, it was about attacking to the countries which harbour terrorists. North of Iraq is exactly doing just that. Iraqi president says now (These days he changes his tune almost hourly!) that Iraq can not control where PKK is. Well, if you can't do it, let Turkey do it. Actually, Iraqi government has less power than Greenpeace. As an occupying force, it's US' responsability to find these terrorists and handover to Turkey."
OHHHH YOU FORGOT...! US is supplying PKK with full logistics, training and weapons to attack Iran. OH! I forgot that PKK that attacks Iran is called PJAK, which is conveniently NOT classified as "terrorist organisation", but PKK is. They both are the same terrorists! What did you say? "The King of Double Standards"? You've got it!
October 27, 2007 7:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 27, 2007 07:03
I just missed these important 2 points:
1-What happened to the "Bush doctrine"? Remember, it was about attacking to the countries which harbour terrorists. North of Iraq is exactly doing just that. Iraqi president says now (These days he changes his tune almost hourly!) that Iraq can not control where PKK is. Well, if you can't do it, let Turkey do it. Actually, Iraqi government has less power than Greenpeace. As an occupying force, it's US' responsability to find these terrorists and handover to Turkey.
2-Not too long ago, US media and US president Bush kept saying: "Israel has every right to defend itself" They were just about to wipe off Lebanon off the map. Who's there now to protect Lebenon? Turkish soldiers! Who're in Afghanistan? Turkish soldiers? Turkey did not want to join "coalation of the willing" in Iraq, on the sole basis of being a neighbor and we'll look at each-other after the US is gone. (That does not seem like is going to happen any time soon.)
Now Turkey needs to defend itself. Millions are on the streets demanding the government to finish this up for once and for all! We're not allowed, apperantly.
The King of double standards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2007 6:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 27, 2007 06:53
Well, I have read ALL the comments. I will list some FACTS, because there are many "out to lunch" statements here.
1-Throughout the history, Kurds have remained nomads and have not even formed a small kingdom, EVER. "Kurdistan" first pronounced by UK politicians who were looking for any ethnic group to form in order to break up OSMANLI (Ottoman) Empire at the end of WW-I. Kurds are tribal people. The people in each tribe, are loyal to their "Reis" or chief to the death. This loyalty comes from the land ownership of each chief, who usually owns the villages, including the people. They have a few really bad habits. One is the bloodfighting. It's not unusual to spark a deadly fight over a cow or a few feet of agricultural land dispute. It'd be fine if that ends there, but it doesn't, until ALL of the male members of the family kill each-other for decades! If a married woman is talking or looking at another male, it often ends up with execution of the wife, and that is called "cleaning one's honour." It's well accepted by the Kurdish society. Individually wonderful people, but within their own society, they tend to jump on any bandwagon due to their high degree of loyalty and fearlessness. As the expression goes: "Fear, as wellas fearlessness comes from ignorence." Education is not something they usually cared until recently. Turkish government's fault is big there, but cold war and freaky Iran also caused that area to remain underdevelopped. I never forget. In the late 70's, the government built a new housing after a devestating earthquake in Eastern Turkey. Kurds kept their cows in these brand-new homes, and they built their own homes from rocks, mud, hay and cow manure used as mortar. They just didn't know any better.
2-In the early 90's Present Iraqi Kurdish leader M. Barzani and J. Talabani were given Turkish diplomatic passports so they can travel all over the world for their cause, because Saddam treated them as cattle. Turkwy has also accepted over a million Kurds running from Saddam's army during the first gulf war. Turkey also allowed its air space and US air base in its soil to protect Kurds from Saddam after the 1st. Gulf War with "Northen no fly zone" until US' 2003 Iraq invasion.
3-Kurds have been in Turkish parliament since the 20's. Thanks to their feodal/tribal structure, almost always those tribal leaders are voted as the regional representatives in Turkish Parliament. Unfortunately, these characters only filled their own pockets with either land-realestate/construction/development deals/jobs and using their own people as slaves in other parts of Turkey (whereever the construction was) making them work just for food and shelter, abusing the loyalty of the kurds from his own tribe. In brief, Kurds have been having their own voice in the parliament for decades, but their voted and also tribal leaders have done nothing other than using their status to fill their own pockets. Many, probably 100's of thousands of Kurds have been enjoying prosperous and successful businesmen, actors, singers, politicians, governors and even prime minister! Nobody in Turkey looked at any Kurd or any other ethnicity in a wrong, degrading and even disgusted way like the caucasions used to towards the blacks in the "land of the free" USA. So, don't even go there. There's no racism in Turkey towards Kurds.
4-PKK is indeed a terrorist organization, which have not hasiteted to kill unsupportive Kurds with their babies, women and childeren. PKK militants/terrorists ambush novice Turkish soldiers who were in their early 20's to do their mandatory military service. In other words easy targets. (Actually I blame Turkish army for not keeping professional special forces close to the Southern border!) They always attack in a coward way, just like any other terrorist. Additionally, civilian bombings, machine gun fire to police stations in big cities and killing or kidnapping Europen tourists from the coastal touristic towns. These are the hallmarks of what the terrorists do. Please spare me the "Let's find a political solution to this" story! Right now there are 35 Kurdish politicians in the house. What do they do? Keep saying "we're peaceful but don't ask us to call PKK terrorists, furthermore, they do nothing to stop PKK violance.
5-USA wants the water and oil fields in Northern Iraq -as well as the south- and in Southeast Turkey. Since they can not invade a NATO member, this is their plan. Have you ever wondered why Kurds don't fight for any land or rights or whatever they want in Iran, Iraq or Syria? Why even they're still fighting with Turkey when they're just about to create their own country in Northern Iraq? Ironically, as of now, Kurds are only able to get somewhere within the democratic society in Turkey, not in Syria, nor Iran. That's because US wants Turkey for its natural resources and strategic location. That's why. Bush is just about to start WW-III. We've never been chewed off easily in the history. Somebody needs to teach him some history! He's insane. Actually he should be charged as war criminal for killing 100's of thousands of innocent Iraqis as well as over 4000+3000=7000 Americans. At least he should be impeached while he's a president, who does not deserve to retire honorably. USA, 50+ year ally turning enemy.
There are many more things to write but this is enough now.
October 27, 2007 6:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 27, 2007 06:26
I rest my case.
October 26, 2007 9:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 21:56
Do not worry I am not an immigrant in your country.
October 26, 2007 9:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 21:54
"In US, minorities have the liberties to serve table and wash the dishes. "
Why are yu in our country if you have such contempt for it? Why don't you leave?
October 26, 2007 9:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 21:10
Dr. Rashid Karadaghi,
Thanks for your threats. I will make sure my friends are thrilled with your stance as well. Do you want to add anything else? It was really enlightening, expect one thing:
When you say "..will be true to their age-old tradition..." do you mean terrrorism?
October 26, 2007 4:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:46
I have been asked about Istanbul so many times. Is it like New York Or San Francisco? Is it big like Paris or small like Rome? People like to simplify things and the easiest way is using an analogy. No matter how wrong it is an analogy can give the reader the satisfaction she needs "I got it! It is like part of New York and part of Boston. Do you drive on the right side of the road?"
Growing in Siatnbul and living in New York. I can assure everyone that Black-White issue has no similarities to Kurd-Turk issue.
In US, minorities have the liberties to serve table and wash the dishes.
Maybe we should adapt the US model. Kurds are minority, we Turks are the real owners of the country ;) We can add the ethnicity to the IDs, registration forms, etc. Let's change the school system so that good schools are only accessible to certain neighborhoods, where Turks are the majority. Kurds should start going to their own restaurants and bars. Turks have their own. We should make sure the tax collected from Turks are not spent on the Kurdish regions.
Then we can focus on the crime, literacy, etc rates to come up with theories.
October 26, 2007 4:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:38
I have been asked about Istanbul so many times. Is it like New York Or San Francisco? Is it big like Paris or small like Rome? People like to simplify things and the easiest way is using an analogy. No matter how wrong it is an analogy can give the reader the satisfaction she needs "I got it! It is like part of New York and part of Boston. Do you drive on the right side of the road?"
Growing in Siatnbul and living in New York. I can assure everyone that Black-White issue has no similarities to Kurd-Turk issue.
In US, minorities have the liberties to serve table and wash the dishes.
Maybe we should adapt the US model. Kurds are minority, we Turks are the real owners of the country ;) We can add the ethnicity to the IDs, registration forms, etc. Let's change the school system so that good schools are only accessible to certain neighborhoods, where Turks are the majority. Kurds should start going to their own restaurants and bars. Turks have their own. We should make sure the tax collected from Turks are not spent on the Kurdish regions.
Then we can focus on the crime, literacy, etc rates to come up with theories.
October 26, 2007 4:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:37
Turkey.
Mmmmm.
Curds and Whey.
Mmmmm.
Thanksgiving!
October 26, 2007 4:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:22
Turkey.
Mmmmm.
Curds and Whey.
Mmmmm.
Thanksgiving!
October 26, 2007 4:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:22
I thought you would write about Turkey.
October 26, 2007 4:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:14
I thought you would write about Turkey.
October 26, 2007 4:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 16:14
The Kurds and Turkey: Victim and Victimizer :
The ancient, deep-rooted conflict between Turkey and the Kurdish people is flaring up again, fueled by the Turkish obsession to keep the Kurds, all Kurds everywhere, in chains and in the box that the occupiers of Kurdistan have put them in. The Turkish racist, militaristic state, mislabeled erroneously by many who are blinded by their perceived self-interest as “moderate” and “democratic,” cannot tolerate seeing the Kurds just south of their part of occupied Kurdistan in charge of running their own affairs and enjoying freedom and security, and having a government, a parliament, a disciplined army of freedom fighters (the Peshmargas), and a president. For many years now, the Turks have been issuing their frequent and usual threats that they will not tolerate even an autonomous Kurdish region with expanded authority, let alone an independent Kurdish state, as if it was their mission to do everything in their power to keep the Kurds anywhere in the world from attaining their freedom and their national rights.
Having the enormous power of the state and control of the mass media, Turkey has succeeded, unfortunately, in convincing the powers-to-be in the world that it is the victim in this perennial conflict with the Kurds. Nothing could be further from the truth, for Turkey continues to victimize the Kurds by committing organized, state terrorism against them within its borders and is about to commit, as it has done in the past, terrorist activities against their brethren beyond those borders, too.
Looked at in isolation, the recent violent acts against Turkish troops may seem to suggest that Turkey is the victim. However, as much as this writer is against violence of any sort and from any side regardless of the justifications, these incidents must be looked at in the context of one hundred years, not counting six centuries of the cruel Ottoman rule, of abuse and terror by the Turkish state against the Kurdish people for no reason other than being Kurds. Let no one be deceived by Turkish propaganda about cosmetic “reforms,” for twenty million Kurds are still viewed as sub-human by Turkey, subjected to daily terror by the state, and denied even the most elementary of human rights, which is using one’s own language in education and communication.
How can Turkey or anyone else expect the Kurds to keep quiet forever in the face of the inhuman treatment they are getting from the state that is supposed to nurture them and treat them with dignity as a people with their own identity? It would take a thick book to narrate all the atrocities Turkey has committed against the Kurdish people since the establishment of modern Turkey following WW1. So, who is the real victim and who is the real victimizer in this conflict?
The world must realize, and so must the Turks, that at the root of the current conflict there is a very obvious and fundamental problem, namely, that a nation of over thirty-five million people is being denied its most basic rights, a condition they will no longer accept regardless of the consequences. Why is this simple truth hard to understand? Until and unless the occupiers of Kurdistan --- be they Turks, Arabs, or Persians --- wake up to the fact that they can no longer rule over the Kurds and their homeland and deny them their God-given rights, there can be no peace in the area and everybody will be the poorer for it.
The Turkish parliament made a historic blunder last week by giving the trigger-happy Turkish army a free hand to conduct military operations in South Kurdistan presumably to pursue PKK fighters. Ostensibly, the Turks are after the PKK, but every Kurd and anyone familiar with this ancient conflict knows that the real goal of any operation will be to destabilize the stable situation in South Kurdistan. Turkey has been trying desperately to use its agents to create trouble for the Kurds in South Kurdistan since the Iraqi liberation in 2003 and is now seizing on this situation as a golden opportunity to meddle in Kurdistan’s affairs directly. But if the Turks think it is that easy to achieve their evil goal, they are mistaken.
The Turks are making a big miscalculation if they think that the Kurdish people are going to give up the freedoms they have achieved with the blood of untold thousands to Saddam’s (and previous Iraqi governments’) tyranny without a fight. If Turkey thinks this is going to be another Cypress, it should think again. There is no doubt that the Kurds will get hurt in any confrontation, which is why they hope Turkey will reconsider its aggressive posture and let reason win over arrogance, but there should also be no doubt that they will inflict more damage on the invading army than they will receive.
Bloodshed and violence cannot solve the fundamental conflict between Turkey and the Kurds, but recognizing that the Kurds are a people with their own identity and aspirations for freedom might. This is why the Kurdish leadership in South Kurdistan has repeatedly called for dialogue in the hope that bloodshed can be averted. However, statements such as the one made by the Turkish deputy prime minister, which is typical of statements made by other Turkish officials also, that Turkey “Does not talk with Iraqi Kurdish groups,” do not signal any willingness to search for a peaceful resolution of the crisis. While the Kurds are trying to defuse the crisis through dialogue, the Turks are escalating it by their arrogance and their refusal to recognize that there is a legitimate government in South Kurdistan with which they should talk directly.
The Kurds don’t want this fight, but if it is imposed on them, no one should doubt that they will be true to their age-old tradition and defend themselves against any aggression. Turkey must also realize that the very thing it fears most may happen sooner than later if it carries out its foolish threats.
October 26, 2007 3:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on October 26, 2007 15:56
Defending Kurdistan :
The most critical issue on almost all Kurds' minds is the talks of a Turkish invasion. The Turkish parliament finally approved a resolution granting the military approval to invade Southern Kurdistan (also known as northern Iraq). Turkish politicians and generals claim that their purpose for the invasion is to destroy PKK camps in the region. However, the reality is that Turkey is disturbed by the autonomy Kurds have gained in Iraq. They are disturbed by the growing international acknowledgment of a Kurdistan that lingers along their border and the legitimacy that Kurds have been able to achieve. As a response, the Turkish state has taken several steps in addition to the 400,000 soldiers that have been deployed along the Turkish-Iraqi border. They have sent messages to the Iraqi government demanding arrests of 140 individuals (36 of which are in the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG)). They have even went as far to demand the arrest of the President of the Kurdistan region's son. The Turks have even already begun launching small operations along the border this week but were stopped short in their tracks when Kurdish rebels effectively ambushed their troops and destroyed their plans. But most importantly in addition to all these things, Turks have ignored all Kurdish calls for a peaceful solution and have effectively rejected political dialogue with Kurds on all accounts.
However, Kurds will not be so quick to adhere to Turkish demands. Despite all the domestic problems, corruption, and democratic issues that Kurds face in their own semi-autonomous region, the Kurds realize what they have gained in Iraq is their right and nothing like they've ever experienced before. Kurds realize that this Kurdistan state that they have been able to create and maintain in northern Iraq is the ultimate prize of all Kurds. This is a prize that Kurds have been trying to win for generations upon generations. Through all the injustice and genocide against the Kurdish people by the oppressive states surrounding and occupying them, Kurds have finally earned their own state to rule their own affairs. They have finally seen peace in a region of the world that is infamous for war. Even during a bloody Iraqi war, Kurdistan remains the only peaceful region. Hence, politicians and generals in Turkey should be considered foolish if they believe Kurds would be willing to give up their own rights so easily.
In a recent speech to his people, the Kurdistan region's president, Massoud Barzani, declared that Kurds would not accept any offer from Turkey outside of peace and dialogue. Many Kurdish politicians like Barzani have come to realize that the PKK problem stems from Turkey's own problem with Kurds. The Turkish state has oppressed the Kurdish people for decades upon decades and has denied them their political, economic, social and cultural rights. Rather than tackling these issues and granting Kurds their rights, the Turkish State has believed in the use of force to further suppress and oppress their Kurdish minority.
This Turkish suppression and oppression was once believed to only be used against Kurds in Turkey. However, now, the Turkish state has decided to try and directly enforce these same anti-Kurdish policies against Kurds across the border in Iraq.
It is natural that the Kurdish reaction to Turkish