Comments (127)

Two Women were led out of a crowd when they tried to lay flowers for the Ataturk in his death anniversay in Osmaniye.

Their mistake was wearing headscarves.http://www.yenisafak.com.tr/politika/?t=11.11.2007&c=2&i=81094

They were warned about the dress code for attending such a thing.

The Ataturk hated Islam to the bones. He hated God and his Prophet s.a.s. He asked his servants that they must not perform the Janazah Prayer,which is performed on the dead, when he dies but his sister intervened in the last minute and the prayer was performed.

Turks must be really proud of this man who fought Allah and his prophet s.a.s especially when they curse the people who made Turkey, Osmanlis.

((And whomsoever Allâh disgraces, none can honour him. Verily! Allâh does what He wills.22:18))

@ OSMANLI November 10, 2007 8:06 AM

You are right. Turkey is experiencing a whole lot of guilt and it is seen from the youngest member of society right up to the governing elite.

Wouldn't it be so much easier to admit the gross inhumanity shown toward other peoples by the Ottomans that continues to this day as seen in Turkey's actions toward the Kurds and others?

Hiding behind the veil of denial will not solve Turkey's problems. The whole country needs therapy. A good place to start is to acknowledge the Armenian genocide, repeal Article 301 and bridge gaps between the minority and special interest groups in the country.

This is a good opportunity for Turkey to show that strength is not shown by flag waving, muscle flexing, finger pointing posturing. Strength is something that does not need to be flaunted since it is the knowledge of unmovable moral certainty.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

" TO GET A PRIZE CURSE ANCESTORS"
This headline appeared in one of Edirne's local newspapers. Teachers in an elmentary school in Edirne made a composition competition and the subject was to write about Sultan Vahdettin, the last Ottoman Sultan being a traitor.
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/egitim/anasayfa/7664074.asp?gid=180&sz=15347

Teachers are teaching thier stundents to curse their ancestors during the 69th anniversary of Mustafa Kemal's death.

Is there a nation on earth who so hateful of its ancestors!?

They also want to be a bridge between West and the Moslem World!!

To anyone interested in formulating an objective and personal opinion on the matter at hand, a good place to start is by reading where the Turkish problems come from. Please copy/paste the line below into your browser and simply read the thousands of Human Rights violations by Turkey as listed by the organization HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH:

hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=turkey

****

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

All this Turkish bravado is so irrelevant.

We all know who the real masters are here and the dog that barks will not bite.

It is time for Turkey to put away the flags and devote some energy to developing a democracy instead of pretending it has one.
A good place to start is to acknowledge world history instead of the self-indulgent propaganda that is taught to Turkish young men, designed to make them go off to war and die for their ungrateful leadership, that does not care.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

Victoria

Add these two sites too. They are very important. It defines Modern Turkish life style. It also shows that Turkey is a secular country and that it is not an Islamic state-in fact it shows that Hindus in India have better values than Turks who call themselves Moslem.
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=82627

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9675837

Spiridon
"Saddam and Iraq were 'friends' to the US before the Kuwait invasion by our friendly, undereducated dictator at the time. We all know how that story ended.

A word of advice:
Since the Turkish 'shop' is ready to close, as a Turk, I would not go around making any risky investments in your position. I would consider the wisdom in this, very, very carefully.

Spiridon"

No power has existed on the earth to erase turkey, and turkish. It is same for China. U know the piece of puzzles but you try to combine them in reverse side. Reas history and try to know who you re, do u have identitY?

zubaida - if you dont mind- id like to repost your post here on the first blog on the PKK here.

im responding to spidons same post

"State Control of Women’s Virginity in Turkey: June 1, 1994
"...An investigation of the prevalence of forcible virginity control exams........"

This happens only in Kurdish areas. Honor killings take place in Kurdish areas. Turkish jounalists love to talk about honor killings and they allways link it to tribal stuff. As if they are telling the world that the only pure"namuslu" women are in the Kurdish areas and the rest of Turkey is modern!!!! I'm sure western Turkey is very very modern!!!!

"…Many Turkish secularists know full well this is not theocracy by stealth; there is, indeed, a definite whiff of class animus in their resistance to the shift in the balance of power towards Turks from the provinces and the countryside. Their outlook is ossified. They are shrine-keepers for Mustafa Kemal Atatürk who, like many of those who built republican Turkey from the remains of the Ottoman empire, was a refugee, regrouping behind an essentially defensive political (and military) culture…."
Europe should celebrate milestone in Turkey’s transition,David Gardner
Published: August 16 2007.Financial Times.

In Salonica, the place from which the Ataturk came, two thirds of the population were Non-Moslems and one third was Moslem during the Ottoman times. If Bektashi Alevis considered themselves Moslems then what is left is the Donme. Ataturk belonged to that sect. Donme are known to be mixers of two identities, Jewish and Moslem. Certainly, all sane Moslems and Jews know that you can never mix the Two. You either be a Jew or a Moslem. Donmes were Jews pretending to be Moslems.

I've come late to this thread. A whole lot going on. And it is of course clear to me how any brief mention of Turkish nationalism, without a thorough discussion of its historical, cultural, religious and political roots can stir dialogue for good or ill. As for 74 v 84, it was indeed a typo. My apologies for that. There have been a lot of fascinating conversations I've had about nationalism in Turkey that haven't made the blog: but most recently from Hakan Bural who says that Turkey has a "positive nationalism" that is "welcoming" and "grounded in religion and democratic ideals." But Bulent rejoins that even the best of things can be twisted in times of crisis for less savory ends. As a newcomer to a vast and complex place, I pass no judgment, but do want to faithfully pass on what I hear, when I hear it, and how it fits into what I'm seeing, thinking etc. day by day. Thanks for fleshing out observations with your many insights.

The cause of all hatred is hatred itself.

See the link below:
It is from The Human Rights Watch report on Turkey: Violations.

****
hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=turkey
****

You will find such tittles as

Turkey: Military Meddling Mars Run-Up to Elections: July 18, 2007
"...Turkish military’s interference in the political arena has threatened progress on human rights in the country..."

Turkey: Dink Murder Trial a Test for Judiciary: June 28, 2007
"...In the 18 months preceding his murder, officials in Istanbul and Trabzon also reportedly failed to act on numerous police intelligence reports revealing a plan to murder Dink."

Turkey: Displaced Villagers Denied Fair Compensation: December 20, 2006
"...the Turkish government is failing to provide fair compensation for hundreds of thousands of mainly Kurdish villagers displaced by the military’s brutal counterinsurgency campaigns in the southeast..."

Turkey: Letter to Minister Aksu calling for the abolition of the village guards:
"...The Turkish government must take immediate steps to abolish the system of village guards, which has given rise to some of the most serious human rights violations in southeast Turkey, and continues to present an obstacle to the return of displaced villagers in that area."

Turkey: Anti-Terror Law Used Against Peaceful Activists:
"...three Kurdish activists on anti-terrorism charges after they attempted to stage a peaceful protest near the Iraq border calls into question the Turkish leadership’s commitment to human rights reforms, Human Rights Watch said today in a letter to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan."

Turkey: Case Against Novelist Threatens Freedom of Expression: September 29, 2005
"...Human Rights Watch was surprised and disappointed to learn that the state prosecutor has opened the proposed case against Orhan Pamuk for “insulting Turkishness” under article 301 of the criminal code." (The Novel Prize winner for Literature 2007)

A Matter of Power
State Control of Women’s Virginity in Turkey: June 1, 1994
"...An investigation of the prevalence of forcible virginity control exams and the role of the government in conducting or tolerating such exams, this report cites several separate incidents in the spring of 1992 when young females committed suicide after authorities ordered them to submit to examinations of their hymens."

***

This last one was on page 8 and is one of the oldest listed. The other ones are quite recent.

Is it reasonable to assume that a country that behaves in such ways against its very citizens has any international claim toward brutalizing them and further; and wanting to invade a foreign country with the intent of brutalizing the people there?

The conclusions on this matter are personal to those that are able to read.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

To Amar and all dear readers: Please visit this very important video coverage. This is what is happening in Turkey. yes, This is Turkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJUKEmXJfc&eurl=http://www.kurdistanpost.com/

To Amar and all dear readers: Please visit this very important video coverage. This is what is happening in Turkey. yes, This is Turkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJUKEmXJfc&eurl=http://www.kurdistanpost.com/

To Amar and all dear readers: Please visit this very important video coverage. This is what is happening in Turkey. yes, This is Turkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJUKEmXJfc&eurl=http://www.kurdistanpost.com/

Dear Readers please be acquainted with the following political terms. These are the names of 4 new mini-states composing “ Great Kurdistan”. They are banned in most of the under-mentioned countries and one even could face life-imprisonment or execution for just referring to them.

Iranian occupied Kurdistan: East Kurdistan
Iraqi liberated Kurdistan: South Kurdistan
Turkish occupied Kurdistan: North Kurdistan
Syrian occupied Kurdistan: West Kurdistan

East + West + North + South = are called Great Kurdistan

Independence for Kurdistan !
Pretty soon Turkey will be partitioned. An independent Kurdish state will come into being in South Eastern Turkey called " North Kurdistan ".

Bir deli kuyuya tas atmis kirk akilli cikaramamis. Bizden nefret eden adamlara enerjinizi harcamayin.

Yorum yazarken hedefinizin Turkiye'yi tanimayanlar olsun. Amerikalilarin bircogu daha karar verebilmis degil ;)

TO SPIRIDON:

AS YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH AS AN ANSWER -AS EXPECTED- IN REPLY TO YOUR OVER AND AGAIN QUESTION, YOU MIGHT EITHER LEVEL QUITE LOW ON AN IQ SCALE OR HAVE A SERIOUS DEMANCE PROBLEM. I AM ALMOST BEGINNING TO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU SINCE YOU SOUND AS IF YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE NEEDING SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP. OBSESSIVELY RESISTING TO GIVE ANY CREDIT TO ALTERNATIVE IDEAS ON THIS TOPIC, WHY DO NOT YOU POST ANOTHER MADE-UP STORY IN REPLY TO YOUR OWN QUESTION IN ORDER TO ENLIGHTEN (!)US WITH YOUR DEEP KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM? APPARENTLY, THIS HATRED OF TURKS OF YOURS IS WHAT KEEPS YOU UP AND COMING EVERYDAY. AND THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO CALL SICK...

I see that the more things change in Turkey, the more these things stay the same.

The Turks are doing a splendid job of compromising themselves, and since they are about to swallow a lot of their misplaced anger, it would be wise for them to play nice with the rest of the kids in their neighbourhood.

I have one question though:
What claims does Turkey have for the territorial part of Northern Iraq, where the Kurds now live, based on historical proof?
Is there any proof to substantiate Turkey's territorial claim to the Kurdish regions?

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

Well Spiridon, pretty much like repeating yourself over and over again in your writings, you keep asking the same question and insist on not accepting anything as an answer as long as it does not conform with your own dogmatic beliefs. For your information once again, Turkey is evaluating the option of using militaristic force on Northern Iraq because Northern Iraq is a terrorist heaven. It is hosting the PKK, which is a separatist terrorist organization with efforts concentrated against Turkish Republic. PKK uses Northern Iraq as a base to organize their attacks on Turkey. Because of the geographical feature of the Turkish-Iraq border, PKK uses northern Iraq also as a place to run back to when they complete their terrorist missions inside Turkish territories killing Turkish people -including Turkish citizens with Kurdish ethnicity-. They hit Turkey and run back to Iraq on and off. They have been involved in this kind of activity for over 20 years now and taken lives of over 30,000 Turkish citizens including babies and other civilians. What Turkey claims of Iraq is very simple; them to clear their own house from terrorists. If Iraq does not collaborate with Turkey in this, Iraq will have to bear the consequences since Turkey will have to take the initiative itself. In that, Turkey does not need any approval to self defend its territories and its people against terrorists. I wonder if you will accept this as an answer or prefer making up stories on how bad intentions Turkey has over the region. I am sorry that this is not an answer you would love to hear but this is the simple truth. Reality hurts...

Spidon today i wont spend my time with you, i am ill and got things to do. answer of your questions.
1)Turkey has no claims over iraq, turkey is trying to secure its border.
2)Read the answer 1.
bye for today

Can anyone answer this basic question:

What claims does Turkey have for the territorial part of Northern Iraq, where the Kurds now live, based on historical proof?

Is there any proof to substantiate Turkey's claim to the Kurdish regions?

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

Regarding the portrait above, for some reason, I always thought Kemal Ataturk had somewhat less hair!

sri-jaggu-gandhi

inde: sky blue
inde: (latin) therefore, for this reason, because of

pendence: hanging, awaiting a decision, settlement, adjustment

blue is for democracy.
red is for Life and Being Read-y.
pentagon has the golden ratio.

1. the Flag in Anatolia, 2D Crescent with Star, is an Alliance of Moon Earth Sun Star in 3D.

2. the Flag in Anatolia, Moon in front of Sun, is a Solar Eclipse, where some play drums in demonstrations.

sky blue is after the solar eclipse.
indigo blue is after the lunar eclipse.

inde pendence!

1. a public must know the sources of the words

2. a public must have the worths on the words from its sources.

3. there must be no quarrel between the sources of the worths on the words.

4. the sources must be open, and they must be free to apply.

Levent Alkan

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=121852&title=aasif-mandvi-turkey-lurking

VERY FUNNY AND TRUE

Hi Tom, thanks very much for the note. I am going through the comments now. And I too hope that this dialogue can be a constructive one.

TO SPIRIDON (OR SPIDON?):

I HAVE READ A COUPLE OF YOUR COMMENTS AND ALL I SEE IS THE REPETITION OF SAME SENTENCES OVER AND OVER AGAIN. INSPIRED BY THE WIDE SCOPE CAMPAIGN THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING HELD BY MASS WESTERN MEDIA, YOU ARE CURSING TURKEY'S RIGHTS BASED ON INTERNATIONAL LAW TO DEFEND ITS LAND AGAINST MILITARY ATTACKS ORIGINATING FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. SO SIMILARLY YOU MEAN THAT, IF THERE IS A TERRORIST ATTACK FROM INSIDE U.S. BORDER TO CANADA, CANADA HAS NO RIGHT TO ACT. STILL IF THERE IS A TERRORIST ATTACK FROM MEXICO TO U.S., U.S. CAN NOT RETALIATE. NEITHER U.S. NOR CANADA CAN GO AFTER KILLERS WHO KILL 12 OF THEIR SOLDIERS AND KIDNAP 8 OF THEM! IT WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THINGS WOULD BE AND HOW THESE NATIONS WOULD REACT IF THEY FIND THEMSELVES SOME DAY, UNDER CONDITIONS SIMILAR TO WHAT TURKEY IS EXPERIENCING TODAY. YOU SEEM TO HAVE A LOT OF FREE TIME TO SPEND ON THE INTERNET SPIRIDON, SO JUST TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, PLEASE MAKE A SEARCH ON WHAT ISRAEL DID IN LEBANON VERY RECENTLY IN ORDER TO RESCUE THEIR 2 (NOT 8, NOT EVEN A KILLED 12!) KIDNAPPED SOLDIERS. TERROR AGAINST U.S. IS TERROR, TERROR AGAINST CANADA PROBABLY IS TERROR, SO IT IS IF AGAINST ISRAEL BUT NOT SO IF AGAINST TURKEY... IS THAT WHAT YOU SAY AND YOU SAY IT IS FAIR?

BASED ON INFORMATION YOU CLAIM YOU HAVE RECEIVED FROM SOME INTERNET SITES (WHICH DEFINITELY DOES NOT MAKE THE INFORMATION YOU GIVE ANY CREDIBLE SINCE ANYONE CAN HAVE A SITE AND WRITE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET)AND ON ALLEGATIONS WHICH ARE YET TO BE PROVED BY HISTORIANS, YOU CLAIM THAT TURKEY IS PLANNING TO INVADE OTHER NATIONS' TERRITORIES AS AN EVIL POWER WHO DESERVES THE WORST OF EVERYTHING AND NOT ENTITLED TO THE BASIC LEGAL RIGHTS BECAUSE OF HAVING DONE ALL THE BAD THINGS YOU CLAIM! WHAT AN ILLUSION!

I CAN'T HELP WONDER WHAT YOUR REAL ORIGIN IS AND WHAT IS AT THE ROOT OF YOUR IMMENSE HATRED AND HUMILIATION AGAINST TURKEY AND TURKISH PEOPLE...

Is there any other country that is so controverys as Turkey i wonder?
Can you imagine living under a global hatred?
It makes you feel alone in the universe but also strong.
Spidon, there is too much hatred in your heart don't forget if you cant forgive others you can not expect God to forgive you for your sins.

Turkey should go it alone for awhile. It would cause them to grow up.

The original post from Amar was interesting and could have led to some serious discussion related to Turkish nationalism. Unfortunately, it appears that too many grinding axes use these forums to immaturely promote their shallow opinions picked off the net or over the media. I often hear about the dangers of Turkish nationalism but I have also heard a lot of what I believe are simply biased opinions about a nation that literally had to pull itself up almost single-handedly after World War I and navigate the alligators of Greece, Britain, France, Italy and our own bumbling Woodrow Wilson to create the Turkish state and survive as a new nation-state. I believe that if you have really read a serious history of the period you can't help but admire Ataturk and what he accomplished. The creation of Turkey was not always nice and pretty but it succeeded where so few have succeeded in creating a true democratic republic in an overwhelmingly moslem country.

I sincerely hope that Turkey will not have to intervene in Iraq because I would think that common decency would dictate that Iraqi Kurdistan and the U.S. guarantee the Turkish borders and shut down for good the violence of the PKK. I also hope that Turks will avoid an incursion because as America has learned in Iraq "to the spoils belongs the victor". It's easy to take over territory but difficult to promote peace once military action is taken. And yes, of course the PKK wants a Turkish attack because it will kill innocent people and they (and the anti-Turk elements on this blog) will simply have more ammunition to dump on Turkey before the court of world opinion. That said, 30,000 lives have been lost already due to the PKK problem and time is running out. In truth, Turkey has been patient.

Thanks Amar for an interesting visit to Istanbul and I'm looking forward to more of your visits. I don't fear opinions different from mine but I do hope that people won't use these posts to hammer their point-of-view and discount original thoughts. I guess that's just a danger of democracy and if so, I'll just have to learn to live with it.

turkey should understand one thing and one thing only; it's identity will be judged by it's ability to: 1. come to a political compromise on the question of it's indigenous kudish population and: 2. it's ability to stand on it's own two feet apart from american and european influence. nothing more and nothing less. it is, in fact, the gateway to the caspian and it runs through kurdistan.

After reading an awful lot of comments, I am, once again, convinced that we(Turks) are the outcasts and have to survive on our own.

US wages an unjustified Iraq war, we pay for it. Soviets wage a communist cold war, we pay for it. Radical Islamists wage a war against western civilization, we pay for it. Out of 7 of our neighbors, 4 of them claims our land, yet we pay for it.

And as if being the battleground for ideological and economical wars were not enough, we are criticized by the "mighty" west for not being democratic. Turks: the ugly, barbaric nomad horde..

There is not one Western civilization which has not committed atrocities (hell, whole Africa is suffering because of western policies) and here we are with the bad rep.

Well, hell with you.. Put me in your axis of evil if you like!!!

Okay people, I'm settling this little bickering match you all have going on. Turkey is going to invade Iraq because a terrorist group is holed up in the mountains there and nobody in Iraq is doing anything about them.

Human rights abuses, government business, and America's invasion are NOT more important than the above point. If Mexican terrorists killed 30,000 people in San Francisco and Mexico didn't do anything about it, I'd be absolutely shocked if we didn't do something about it for them. If Spanish terrorists bombed Nice and the Legionnaires weren't in Spain if Madrid decided to shrug it off, I'd be shocked.

Everything else is an additive point to this original problem. If Turkey sits there and does nothing, the PKK will continue the violence. Their diplomatic course has been to wait for America and Iraq to work something out on the PKK front. If they fail, international law gives Turkey every right to go and do something about the PKK.

If you all weren't engaged in this Turkey-Kurdish spitting match, this issue wouldn't be so gummed up. Sure, there are other issues to work out. But if Turkey invades Iraq looking for the PKK, you can call foul if Turkey keeps the territory it hits. Conquering a part of Iraq is against international law. But invading to shut up the PKK certainly is. Period.

I am saddened to see what could have been an open discourse degrade to name calling and YELLING...It takes a man to admit when they are wrong. As I alluded to earlier, the Turkish "Mantik" does not allow it to apologize.

I do not understand what is Turkey's fraeking business in Iraq? It is now only PKK but if Turkey attacks Iraq, then she will have to fight the Kurds all over. In Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. This is exactly what the Kurds are looking for.

Please dont take serious Spidon and forgive him because he suffer enough with his hate..nobody can help him.He can live with his hatered all his life.Some people hooked with hate and anger....sorry for them.
All my love for Turkish people..

To answer spidion Questions I do find across the board human right abuses but these kind of situations come from not upgrading the judical system which has been upgraded recently. There is room for improvement,however many developed countries have humand right issues too so every body has skeletons in thier closet. now answering Question2 why does turkey inted to invade? this owrd is incorrectly used. Turkey becuase thier are attacks from iraq it will use under UN mandate to defend itself its soverigny. This is the issue. Noe the assoicated press wrote a report today saying: one of Iraq's few tranquil regions,! this tranquil region manged by Barzani is abading supporting lojisticly The PKK to mount attacks which has killed 46 young Turkish soldiers who had dreams aspirations.. not just soldiers.

Now This AP report is totally one sided. A reporter goes there looks around sits down on his laptop and makes a report. What a way to do a one sided report.!

OK, now that we have our Turkish friend's attention:

Let's talk about some current things, not just speculation and 'what-ifs':

1) I have found a very well researched thesis from 1988 that describes Turkey as having between 15,000 and 20,000 political prisoners. It is important to note that the figures cannot be properly tallied since Turkey refuses to provide them. I suspect that the problem since then has worsened based on the Islamist government in power and the agenda they enforce versus the secular modus of the government when the above figures were sited. The other reason I believe the figure to be very much higher, is that the relationship the state has with the minorities like the Kurds these days has worsened since then.
I would be very happy if some savvy reader proved me wrong but would like to know the recent data on Turkey's human rights violations and tally on the political prisoners.

2) I am very curious to read other people's thoughts on Turkey's human rights defence. The European Union has accused Turkey for lacking the basic principles and institutions to acknowledge human rights and protections, and it is one of the contentious issues that still keeps Turkey out of the EU, even after 40 years of trying.

My question for the present, aside from the matter of the Armenian Genocide:
The basic issue in question here is Turkey's brutality toward the minorities and special interest groups.

Does this policy issue contribute to the "Kurdish Problem" as Turkey has labelled it?

As well, since the topic has been raised:
Why is Turkey intent on invading Iraq, and is the reason to occupy an area where Turkey believes it has historical claim to having?

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

@ Hasan

I think you did not catch my meaning:

I do not mean that Turkey as a place will cease to exist, I am talking about the military and government of Turkey (the Nationalist Turkey) will have to reinvent itself again, and this time, do a lot of apologizing to EVERYONE, starting with the Armenians... you know... reparations, damages, landclames... all the things Turkey is not ready to talk about...

You get it?

I think that when all of the chips are down, Turkey will be left with lots of place to house its hefty population.

Just a thought.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

To Spiridon.
You are still talking about Turkey as a shop aboutto close. In last 5 years billions of dolars had been invested in Turkey by US and EU business man. Today %70 of our stockmarket in istanbul is again owned by US and EU companies.
In last 3 years 100.000 British and German (followed by greek) citizens bought houses and moved to Turkey.
Today in the town DIDIM in Turkey most of the citizens are british, in KUSADASI mostly from ireland and city of ALANYA has became a GERMAN city.

And you still see Turkey as hell? :)
Come to this shop that you curse, u might find yourself home.

Tim cheap labour is not a good thing because when you have an illegal worker you dont pay tax to the goverment for that person. In Turkey companies had to pay 200 $ per worker to the goverment, in return goverment covers healt and life insurance. 100.000 x 200 = 20.000.000$ per month.

@ Anonymous:

You might try some "hot pursuit" of your problems within Turkey and leave the other countries alone. It is a proven fact that the problem Turkey has with the PKK is within Turkey not from Iraq. The objective international observers have concluded this very point. Why the incursion on foreign territory?

While we are on the topic of "hot pursuit" is that what you labelled the Cyprus invasion and subsequent occupation that is going on to this day?

Was the term "hot pursuit" used to get the Armenians before you massacred them and marched them to their death without food nor water?

Please explain what you feel the objective of the Turkish military and government is on the matter of "hot pursuit" against the Kurds in Iraq.

****

I thought I should point out at this juncture that if you are not clear on history you must become clear on history.

Saddam and Iraq were 'friends' to the US before the Kuwait invasion by our friendly, undereducated dictator at the time. We all know how that story ended.

A word of advice:
Since the Turkish 'shop' is ready to close, as a Turk, I would not go around making any risky investments in your position. I would consider the wisdom in this, very, very carefully.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

To Spidon:
Dear Spidon, 1st of all if it comes to historical claims Turks can claim half of europe as Italians can claim most of the world. Historical claims makes no sense today.
At the end of WW1 the peace treatment signed between Turkey and eng/frn/gre/ etc gave Turkey right over iraqi oil. But who cares as the same treatment also prohibited Turkey to have armies in istanbul :)

Shortly nobody is going to invade iraq but US. we will just hit the terrorist camps and leave UNLESS kurish leaders try to hit turkish army then the whole thing can turn into a dangerious thing but these things wont happen because YOU HAVE CLAIMED that Turkey is a shop thats about to close :) we shall see my friend.

TO TIM :)
I correct the term "partners". We are on the same side.
Turkey is not getting those financial aids in return of giving free passage. That money is coming for 30 years because of US NUKES planted in Turkey during cold war and still staying here.
If that money was coming for US army transportation from Turkey, then the parliament would let US marines to invade Iraq from but it did not (what a mistake!) give the permission.

turkey is not aiming any kind of "invade" Iraq. Only purpose to destroy terrorist organization. This is legal right action (International law) to follow with a title "hot pursuit" We are not at the same side with you I do not support any side but you do. I am busy too I do not just reading news, and make comments.

The silence on this question is very telling in deed.

I will rephrase the question:

Why is Turkey intent on invading Iraq, and is the reason to occupy an area where Turkey believes it has historical claim to having?

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

@ Anonymous:

Are you telling us that Turkey is intending to invade Iraq with the 'legitimacy' it 'believes it has' to the territory now occupied by the Kurdish people?

I want an answer to this.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

I am not a nationalist or such kind of ideology I follow, as possible as I try to make out objective approach if this blogs are read by US. people. I can say that we can cover U.S. and its foreign policy and I find rational for Iraq. However, there is missed point that U.S. people do not know well turkey's conditions against the PKK. Pkk is recognized as a terrorist by Eu and U.S. like a Al Qaeda and should be stopped. Turkey actually does not need to be a partner in rich oil places. Because turkey is placed in critical geopolitic place for energy and other resources it has oil too. One thing is demanded by Turkey to stop terrorist organization PKK. 16 months turkey has waited for promises of U.S. to stop Pkk and there is no action so result thus, Turkey wants to handle with it.

@ Anonymous:

Are you telling us that Turkey is intending to invade Iraq with the 'legitimacy' it 'believes it has' to the territory now occupied by the Kurdish people?

I want an answer to this.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

What is the purpose for Turkey wanting into the oil rich part of the only stable part of Iraq?
It could be same with purpose of U.S. :D
Kerkuk and mosul unresolved problem for turkey, especially during the Lausanne treaty issue could not resolved, LoN consulted, and comission was established to calculate the number of kurds, turks, arabs for leting the establishment of sovereign. And through this Kurds counted more than Turks that was not reflecting truth because lots of Kurds and Turks have exchanged each othere for counting. Turkey did not accept the comission report. As ı understood your question that could be answer for you.

Hasan, I thought cheep labor was good for a growing economy. Look at us in the US, we have many illegal aliens that do the jobs that most others won't. When I talk about Turkey, I'm not just talking about Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara. I'm talking about the rest of the country too. It may be democratic of some sorts, but far from compared in equal terms in human rights, even by our - US - imperfect standards.

It scares me when one male says to another male that they are partners, but even though, why would you limit my supply route, when you're the third highest recipient of my money and aid?

Turkey needs the US more than the US needs Turkey, and this is why I believe that Turkey is closing the door on itself.

To my Turkish friends:

What claim does Turkey make to Tikrik in Norther Iraq. There are reports, even in your nationalist website that the Turkish government is making claim to the patch of bloodied rock that is now the Kurdish area in an already beading country (Iraq).

Tell us why the Turkish government wants to invade Iraq if the PKK is actively seeking to confront the Turkish military within Turkey proper.

What is the purpose for Turkey wanting into the oil rich part of the only stable part of Iraq?

We are not talking genocide yet but there is enough ethnic cleansing going on in the South Eastern part of Turkey for the international community to start asking a lot of questions.

Spiridon
Montreal Canada

" from Dunbar:

After Reading some hate monger postings ( most likely greek or armenian origin) the comments seems reasonable. It is really hard for anyone to understand Turkish nationalism. You have to raised in Turkey to understand it. Its not nationalisim as the western ideals describe it. It is base on totally different values. There is nothing wrong with The turkish citizens wawing flags celebrating.! Any human being who lives ona lad will defnd it and celebrate it otherwise it cannot call it its country. As amar was going around Turkey he probably forgot to interview millions of Turkish citizens who are intermarried with kurdish father or mother. These citizens are waving the turkish flag too. They are also in the Army fighting the Terrosit acts. also He forgot to mention that the governing party AKP has over 50 Congressman who are kurdish origin. THe kurds and the turks have cohesioned over a 1000 yrs. The PKK issue is the Creation of our Europenan allies to destabilize and breakup Turkey if possible. The european neocon elite does not want Turkey to become a regional superpower. However Turkey is already there and anything in the middleast will not be manipulated without Turkeys approval." this is enough to explain but you can not understand with experiencing, living.

"my question for the present, aside from the matter of the Armenian Genocide:
The basic issue in question here is Turkey's brutality toward the minorities and special interest groups.

Does this policy issue contribute to the "Kurdish Problem" as Turkey has labelled it?"
reply: except the nortern Iraq racist Kurds, Turkey and turkish citizens have no any conflict with kurdish minorities, because they are the members of turkey, not illegal terrorist group. Moreover, Racist kurds kill kurds more than turks in northern Iraq. you can search died soldiers from turkey, majority of their ethnicity are kurdish. Turkey allows the minorities to represent them in Assembly in democratic and peaceful ways like the last election. However, racist ones do not stop the terrorist actions.

Dear Spidon, have you realized that more you want to take side with Kurds more you loose your stand with your Armenian issue...

Thats what happenes when u choose a wrong ally. Assuming you are an Armenian, your grand fathers took side with the russian and betrayed their own country and lost the war. Now you want to take your side with Kurds? Be my guest but it is sad to see someone never learning from history.

TO TIM GREY:

1) Many of the Turks does not want EU either, because there is allready 100.000 (Armenian, Russian, etc..) illegal workers in Turkey and it is hurting the economy. If Turkey enters EU we will loose all our profit from our energy translation lines.

2) Turkey is not an islamic country threating USA. Turkey is a hardcore s