Comments (100)

god i love bauer, and i love this article!

Well said Jeffrey. I'll spare you...

Suraj and Lida, it's important to realize groups like Shiv Sena and other Muslim groups have both their political aims, and then their more radical members. We must distinguish between the two for they are not one and the same.

Shiv Sena have had radical leaders and practical ones in Mumbai. Same is true of Jamaat-e-Islami in India and in Pakistan. It is particularly tame in India.

And in regard to this post, one of the problems with 24 is it makes these groups seem homogenous and crazed. Some are, not all!

To Lida,
29 blown up in Pakistan, 8 arrested in Denmark, Allah knows how many in Iraq and Afghan....

Only a few Muslims are terrorists? What a joke!

Well Suraj,
You answered your own question. You want all 55 Nations and 1.5 billion Muslims to think alike???
Its Saudi Arabia our Ally who is the problem here!!!
And I don't know what are we doing in Iraq I guess Saudi-US ties are rock solid no matter what happens.
Hindus are only in a few countries and 99% of them are in India. Even they dont think alike. Tamils blew up Rajiv Ghandi does that mean all Tamils are terrorists????

Shiv Sena/ lasker taiba are all terrorists !!!!

Alright. I just wanna say; not everybody hates Americans. I'm canadian, and even though my friends aren't likely to jump up and down for the war in Iraq, or wear a T-shirt saying "Vote Bush", we don't despise Americans. We just laugh at Bush and joke around.

As for 24's part in this, yeah there are a lot of american views other countries might not agree with. Heck yeah, it's violent. But I don't think it's spreading american propoganda. I think President Palmer was most honourable, knowledgeable and overall best good guy in the series. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

All in all, you have to remember it's just a TV show. You decide if it sways your opinion on torture. I hope you guys get it. As for me, I am definetly watching the next season. I hope Kim's in it.

The following program contains mature subject matter. Viewer discretion is advised.

of course.....there is always the notion that Jack Bauer stikes a chord not because such a stock character exists/existed...or that he is reprentative of America writ large or small....but that he reminds so many of how little others (owing to cowardice, "princple", or self-interest) are willing to sacrifice.....or how much they are willing risk while sounding high minded from the sidelines.

rerc.....how do they feel about heading toward a dictatorship? other than the students...do any other segments of thier society recognize the path Chavez is on?

VP...putting side your evident fascist intincts...
you don't have anything interestng to say.

sweeping generalizations with essentially emotional content are..well...boring!

as for the typos.....I'm more than able to hire you as a secretary...I promise that you will not be challenged by big ideas or leadership responsibiities! ust hit the right keys...you know....kinda like themindless mantra you have been chanting in this thread.

see you on the front lies pal!

VP COSMICUM:

My earlier post was for your benefit.

Security services monitor sites like these. They look for people expressing views portraying particular states of mind. They look for people with low impulse control. Don't think you can't be identified. You can be. No key stroke is ever lost on the web.

I believe you have made yourself interesting to serious people. People you don't want in your life.

VP Cosmicum -

Tell us what superior country you are from. If you are so proud of your nation, tell us what it is.

My guess is that like most America-haters, you don't have the courage to identify your nationality. The reason that America-haters hid their national identity is to avoid aving your own faults pointed out It is so much easier to be an anonymous coward taking pot shots at the biggest target.

Let's see if ou can take as well a yu give. Step up to the plate, coward.

I recall when visiting Morroco for vacation, a group of locals on my resort lobby couldn't stop looking at Jack Bauer's '24' and its 'Indiana Jones" type of missions, they were glued to the TV..... I couldn't stop laughing, though. I think this type of series do more harm than help; and that's because it gives an impression that counter-terrorism operations are like hollywood action films....which they're not. but if it comes to TV and its portreyal of the war on terror, I like more realistic series like Showtime "Sleeper Cell"......

P.S. I have to agree with Ibsen M. that anti-american rethoric by Chavez its only that, rethoric. I had traveled all over L.America and I haven't see a more pro-american society than the Venezuelan, and they love '24' indeed. lol

VP Cosmicum:

But you claim dual nationality. You are half American, correct?

VP Cosmicum:

But you claim dual nationality. You are half American, correct?

LMAO: Does what you wrote make any sense (even after correcting your mistype)? Did I claim to be a hero? Does anyone not need heroes? Is a soldier who masturbates about his gun and Jack Bauer a hero?

If I wanted to prove that Americans are either stupid or evil, I couldn't have asked for better responses than yours and Rambo's.

CTAATGT: Has anyone ever considered that US security services may post on sites like these?

They DO!

If a television program can surface this much bile and hubris, only one conclusion is possible, a reckoning is coming. And it will be terrible to behold.

Has anyone ever considered that US security services may post on sites like these?

Aamir Ali: you are absolutely right. Immigrants make an indispensable contribution to the United States.

I did not say, and do not believe, that others hate Americans because of our freedoms. They hate us for who they think we are. A few may know us well and hate with good reason.

LIDA: I'm not Jack Bauer. And I am fully Americanized. "Cavalcades" immigrated to the Virginia royal colony in 1680 and finally reached the California coast in 1880.

The statistics I quoted come from The Economist, except for the information on nanotechnology which comes from a USG report on the results of the National Nanotechnology Initiative after two years.

I'm not in the entertainment industry, the defense industry, or the manufacturing sector. I am in the R&D sector.

And I'm 100 per cent American macho.

To Lida,
Don't you think that 55 Islamic nations on earth by calling themselves Muslim Republics insult other religions?

How come Saudi Arabia, the Islam's holiest site is the most intolerant nation on earth and sent us 19 blood thirst terrorists on 9/11?

It is not one Muslim. If that were true, terror would have ended long time ago. There are numerous terrorists and their billion silent supporters who take pride in them

@Anonymous: In 24 we already had Swiss and Austrian Bad Guys. What are you talking about?

Sometimes I wish people would actually know the material they are talking about.

VP COSMICUM...one can undertstand why you need hers....you certainly could never be one....

don't be such an intellectuial fraud Amar......what, off the top of your head, might you imagine to be an energizing force for a large swath of these Islamofacist terrosists? perhaps a cultural backlash - underway for decades - to the decadence & violence that is standard fair for Hollywood?

as though 24 appeared as a watershed event a few programming seasons ago. this is why no one can take folks like you seriously. you're either stupid or grossly dishonest.

Why don't we have any shows in which some Swiss, Danish, Dutch or Belgian guy is either the bad guy terrorist or the victim and the hostage?

Ditto for Austrians, Algerians, Spaniards, etc.

to Suraj:
"To Anthony- Take it easy, man. It is just a TV show and not an official US Government production.

And what seems to be your problem with the US? It is not the one spreading intolerance, hatred and terror around the world. It has the guts to take on Islamist terrorists at their own home rather than wait for them to come and blow us up again.

Many Aussies were blown up by Muslims in Bali. It is very strange to hear an Aussie have opinion like yours."

----------------------------------
Dear Suraj Mukhi,

What is this US/us business??? you have an indian name so go back to programming that code your manager gave you or attend that call from a dell customer.

Well if the above statement hurt then it was intentional.

Stop stereotyping Muslims by saying muslims blew up Aussies in Bali. That was an act by one person. To explain you in Hinduism, it was the act of Ravan and Ravanites don't represent Hindus.

Because "US" americans cannot tell a muslim apart from a hindu.

TV reinforces stereotypes. Thats why you don't see red indians in cartoons and red indian in stereotypical roles in westerns.

The ironic thing about America is every single person in America in an immigrant except the "red indians ;)" who I guess immigrated from bangalore before columbus "discovered" America.

I think its usually after you become 3rd generation American that you pick the the line "if you don't like it here you can go back to your country".

Here is one from a immigrant American who goes by Darden Cavalcade who is fully Americanized.

from Darden Cavalcade:
"The United States and Americans ARE despised. We always will be. Most of it is sheer material envy. We are less than five per cent of humanity, but we produce 30 per cent of global GDP, invest 40 per cent of global R&D, spend 53 per cent of global defense expenditure (yeah, more than the rest of the world combined), receive 70 per cent of global patents granted in nanotechnology, and more than 80 per cent of every dollar spent on an entertainment film on this planet is spent to see an American film. No other society has the economic, technological, military, or cultural impact of the United States...not the UK, not Australia, not Russia, not China, not India."

the funny thing is Darden has nothing to do with all of the above and is taking credit for all of it. Now thats what I call a Classic American Machoism!!!

"Moreover, its villains are so absurd that host countries feel no affinity for them. Bauer’s attacking extremists, not Turks, not Mexicans. They distinguish, even while Americans might not."

Wow. Good job insulting your audience. We're dumb Americans, how could we possibly differentiate between fiction and reality?

to Darden Cavalcade:

Are you Jack Bauer???

Come on I know its you because you sound just like him. Please please tell me its you!!!!!!
;)

"If your countries were interesting you wouldn't be watching 24."

that was a classic Bauer statement!!!!

24 is a complete satire and mockery of the US government. Especially recent seasons which have been critical of the president himself (Logan)!

And if you watch the shows, the foreign people are actually working for someone within the US! So it always goes back to a bad guy being an American who is the 'terrorist' in charge.

24 actors in interviews have repeatedly stated how the show is anti-republican, anti-government, etc., and how they are surprised with such (ignorant) republican fans.

Mike

"Our media is dominated by the extreme left."

Is this irony? If you reckon US media is dominated by the left your view of the world must make old Adolf seem like a hippy.

As someone who follows the media in a number of countries I can safetly report that the US popular media is one of the most right-wing in the world at present and it takes someone with a particularly narrow-minded view of the world to see it as being in any way "right-wing."

If one takes a look at American TV programing from the 50s to now, the trend is quite clear: less conversation, more action. More violence assures more success and customers.

Two points come to mind:

a) Why does the world's greatest nation needs to entertain itself with, or escape to, this kind of fantasy? Or remind itself that it is powerful? and

b) Let us remember that the current producers, directors and actors grew up to the tune of Pink Floyd:

We don't need no education....
We don't need no self control....

Anyway, it is baffling why violence is successful entertainment.

Lance Fox: Good luck out there to you and yours. Stay safe. You do us proud. There will always be people like VP. They are the people with cable access shows, and are best ignored.

Frank, excellent point! Bauer's a bit like Tocqueville it seems, or some such.

The funny thing about America's favorite TV hero is that he is played by a very Canadian Kiefer Southerland. How ironic.

The funny thing about America's favorite TV hero is that he is played by a very Canadian Kiefer Southerland. How ironic.

Darden Cavalcade:

American success has many contributions to it by immigrants. There are those who simply jealous of american power, western europeans being one, and there are those who have legitimate grievances against American policy, like Palestinians and Pakistanis.

You cant just shriek: "They hate us for our freedom" and then move on.

Lance - Now you be a good dog and don't bark unless your master says so. Don't let the IED hit you on the way out. AMF to you (but for real, as in "You may soon go with god").

And, just because you feel the need to bait me, I'll return the favour: I'm currently on vacation and enjoying a beautiful summer evening, where I can have as many beers as I want, watch whatever I want on TV, sleep in tomorrow until any time I want AND I don't have to kill any innocent civilans tomorrow.

Sucks to be you, I guess. If you make it out of Iraq, try some GED courses while you're in therapy.

Cum: whatever else you pretend to be in a chat room...member of the literati, Venezuelan revolutionary, 12 year-old school girl...don't pretend to be "half American (by birth)." Punk, you aren't an American by anything, not even accident.

I've finished my beer, checked my e-mail, and now it's time to clean my M-4. AMF.

DC Drunk: Is that a problematic collection of US heroes? I would also include Muhammad Ali and Eugene Debs -- does that make more sense?

Who cares how the world regards Jack Bauer?

Bakshi, your series began just fine. But now it's just inane. Truly worthy of the comments above.

"Stephen Colbert, Noam Chomsky and Chuck D."

WHAT?!?

Lance, you are truly an idiot, and I feel sorry for your family. I bet they had higher hopes for your future than cannon fodder.

There you are, at the sharp end of your empire, ready to die for warmongering cowards like Bush and Cheney.

Maybe if you had paid more attention in school, you would at least have been literate cannon fodder. As it is, Lance, you are likely to die for a cause you cannot even articulate.

So sad.

24 is many of great tv in place The Gambia Africa!

But thought were debate wrong issue! Jack Bauer fight for freedom feeling. Hate slavery! If many countries decide good Jack Bauer than many people less slaves in world. Good!

24 is many of great tv in place The Gambia Africa!

But thought were debate wrong issue! Jack Bauer fight for freedom feeling. Hate slavery! If many countries decide good Jack Bauer than many people less slaves in world. Good!

24 is many of great tv in place The Gambia Africa!

But thought were debate wrong issue! Jack Bauer fight for freedom feeling. Hate slavery! If many countries decide good Jack Bauer than many people less slaves in world. Good!

24 is many of great tv in place The Gambia Africa!

But thought were debate wrong issue! Jack Bauer fight for freedom feeling. Hate slavery! If many countries decide good Jack Bauer than many people less slaves in world. Good!

Cosmic Cum: says it all.

My heroes are Corporal Angel drinking a beer by the stereo, PFCs Albright and Stans cleaning their M-4s in the cots next to mine, and the team just coming in from patrol. I don't have to go to jail to see punks, I see their remains two/three times a week.

When you fight the best, you die with the rest.

Patriotism will be the end of us all if we fail to take care.

Those offended by American cultural imperialism should not pay for cable television to be entertained by it.

Those offended by American economic imperialism should not buy American products if they can tolerate living without them.

Those who fear American military imperialism should tell Washington to remove its armies, air forces and navies. And if they still don't feel safe, they should create their own.

And those who hate Americans, as many posters above doubtless do, should come to the United States and see the place and the people, as I have done. You will be surprised.

Lance Fox: nice name; says it all. I'm the punk? Visit one of your great country's jails and they'll show you a punk in the mirror. Better yet, travel outside your country's borders and see what kind of reception your bravado BS gets.

My American heroes are people you probably despise. They are brave Americans who are not afraid of truth, like Stephen Colbert, Noam Chomsky and Chuck D. Do your "heroes" include cowardly idiots like Dick Cheney, Oliver North and George W. Bush?

Reading these posts is amazing. Apparently, many can't tell the difference between fiction and reality, culture and commerce, and don't want to try.

The United States and Americans ARE despised. We always will be. Most of it is sheer material envy. We are less than five per cent of humanity, but we produce 30 per cent of global GDP, invest 40 per cent of global R&D, spend 53 per cent of global defense expenditure (yeah, more than the rest of the world combined), receive 70 per cent of global patents granted in nanotechnology, and more than 80 per cent of every dollar spent on an entertainment film on this planet is spent to see an American film. No other society has the economic, technological, military, or cultural impact of the United States...not the UK, not Australia, not Russia, not China, not India.

We are a violent, dangerous, successful society. And yes. Our leaders are idiots who make the mistakes of idiots. Isn't it great to be so powerful that even a diaster or two can be taken in stride? And yes, we're self-absorbed. If your countries were interesting you wouldn't be watching 24. You would have never heard of it.

24? It's just TV. The important point is that it couldn't have been made by anyone else, syndicated as successfully by anyone else, turned into a printing press for MONEY by anyone else. Could anyone imagine a Venezuelan television program interesting a worldwide audience?

The same polls that record how much the rest of the world despises Americans also record that we Americans actually like you. Pray that the delusion continues. When Americans decide to hate, Iraqs happen.

Some context here folks:

First, I've seen all of the seasons and don't recall Jack being the torturer all that often. Normally it's a CTU professional torturing say the Secretary of Defense's own son, or more often, a bad guy torturing Jack.

He'll threaten torture, but aside from him electrocuting Audrey's new boyfriend (which, frankly, was kind of tough to watch, and out of character I thought), I don't recall him being the actual torturer.

Second, there's a huge disconnect between any torture and real life: Jack once died while being tortured and was beating up the baddies 30 minutes later in "24 time."

Don't get me started on the true disconnect, which is how he can get around Los Angeles in 5 minutes when it'd take 45 even with a police escort knifing through traffic...

Third, don't foreget that the first season was in the can -- completed -- well before 9/11. I recall it debuted shortly after and read then that the producers had to cut a sequence of an exploding 747, which had been bombed by a team member of a presidential assassination squad.

The politics of the show don't exist: the thing was cooked up prior to 9/11, the initial good guy president was in all likelihood a Democrat, and we've since had a dead ringer for Republican Nixon who committed treason. It's simply futile to ascribe any political meaning to the show other than that people like to watch Jack yelling "Dammit there's no time" and huge 'splosions.

Anyhow, I found this post via washingtonpost.com. I'm very impressed with the discussion above.

You all should check out the Bauerisms. My fave?

"Jack Bauer once had the idea to sell his urine as a canned beverage. We now know this beverage as Red Bull."

Danny of the UK: glad your still able to speak English, dude. If not for my grandfather and five million of his pals, you might have been speaking German.

And as I recall it, it was the UK that pestered the hell out of us until Clinton agreed to bomb the bejesus out of Serbia. And that's because you didn't have the muscle or stones to do it by yourself.

And as I recall it, the Queen's government murdered dissident Irish republicans wherever the SAS could find them, including a famous incident in Gibraltor where the SAS killed unarmed men. Jack Bauer's all.

And as I recall it, the UK's last mess cleaning had to do with Sierra Leone. The US has never intervened, occupied or expressed much interest in SL. Up yer's, Danny boy.

Cosmo: your half American? What's the other half? You have American heroes? Who are they? You've got a lot to say. Tell us who you are, punk.

Anonymous:

Yes, I do think Chavez cares about human beings, even Americans, who suffer needlessly because of the greed of their own compatriots. The real question about the discounted oil is why PDVSA-Citgo was the only oil company to respond the U.S. senate's request for help?

While I agree that countries tend to act in self interest, most tend not to structure a foriegn policy of interference in other countries' domestic policies by covert political funding, black propaganda, assassination and war. It comes down to this: would Americans tolerate other countries interfering in U.S. politics to thesame extent the U.S. interferes elsewhere? Obviously not.

VP Cosmicum said: "The U.S. acts not in benevolence and altruism but rather to further the interests of its ruling class."

You could of course remove U.S. from the sentence above and replace with the name of any country in the world. Every sovereign nation acts in its own self interest. Do you really think Chavez "cared" about the poor americans he gave cheap oil to?

Danny - UK:

Actually, much of what we do outside our boarders is cleaning up the post-imperialistic mess left by the UK.

"The Sun never sets over the British Empire. Until it does and then someone else has to clean up the godawful mess."

John Gault: You complain that "the world wants to tell the U.S. how to do its job"? Are you serious? Your words indicate that you style yourself a conservative and something of an isolationist, but you whine as though the U.S. is a victim rather than the culprit. The U.S. acts not in benevolence and altruism but rather to further the interests of its ruling class. Those interests tend to conflict with the interests of the people who live in countries that contain oil and other things of value to the U.S. ruling class. Your country's foreign policy causes problems. Accept and deal with that instead of waiting for armageddon.

Oh, yeah. And while we're cleaning up our house here in the U.S., how about the rest of you whiney hypocrites see to your own dirty little patches of Earth? So many of you are in such a tearing hurry to bad mouth us and point the finger, that you don't have time to clean up your own messes? Oh, wait...that's right. Most of you can't say Jack (hehe) about your governments and societies because you'll be prosecuted or shot just for speaking up. Maybe that's why so many try to get into this country, even with it's occasional self-inflicted clubbing of the Constitution. To all the jealous has-been nations of the world stage, those too poor (usually through corruption or perpetual infighting), or those who think everything should be handed to them...you'll miss us when we're gone. Try this stuff when China is the big monster on the world stage! LOL

Yes, the world despise us. Yes, they want us to leave them alone. Yes, Jack Bauer is a manifesto of American hegemony in prime time. Now that we've got that down, how about we look at what the real issue is? Every one "hates America" because, like the policeman on the beat, they don't want us around until they need us, then they want to tell us how to do our jobs. As far as a lot of us are concerned, the faster Bush is gone and we get our butts out of every little Third World corner of the globe, the faster we can take care of our own internal problems at home. The rest of the world can pound sand for all they help they've ever given us (except, paradoxically, France in the 18th/19th centuries). Bauer does go overboard and stupid kids (and simple minds) shouldn't look at his antics as what it means to be an American in today's world. Now...let's all just go to our seperate corners and wait out the verdict on who's right.

William: I take your point regarding the possibility that Jack Bauer's actions are a result of the post-apocalyptic circumstances prevailing in the US on the show. But when the show is invoked by REAL soldiers as justification for torture, I'm not sure that the difference between the fictional and real worlds matters.

On this comment board, we're arguing about how "24" influences the world's opinion of the US. I doubt the people of world, many of whom have suffered American imperialist violence, are going to stop and consider why Jack Bauer the torturer is in a delicate mental condition because his country has suffered inevitable foreign policy blowback.

Messed up the last paragraph: (Take two)

My point is that the proposition "Jack Bauer is popular worldwide despite an American" is a non-starter; Jack Bauer's America is a fictional hostile wasteland that only vaguely resembles reality. Rather, Jack Bauer is popular because he is an epic hero. And humanity has celebrated epic heros, for good or for awesome, since the dawn of civilization.

As a matter of fact, it's one of the defining characteristics of civilization... so there!

Something that seems to be repeatedly ignored in examining "24" is the difference between the United States of "24" and the one in reality.

The United States in "24" is a horrible place: It has been the subject to multiple nuclear attacks, biological weapon attacks, and conventional weapon terrorist bombings. Enemies of the United States have succeeeded in killing high-ranking government officials and notable statemen (including a former president), one year there was a coup against the President by the vice-president, and in another year: one of the most dangerous enemies of the United States was the president of the United States.

In this context, Jack Bauer is a post-apocaplytic avenger akin to "Mad Max" or "Judge Dredd" or "Bat Man" (From "The Dark Knight Returns") like those other hyperbolic characters, his own ruthlessness is a reflection of the merciless world that created him through subjecting him to one soul-destroying personal catstrophe after another. In one season his wife is brutally murdered, in another season he is literally forced to kiss his wife's killer "in the line of duty", only to be forced later on to kill her under circumstances that ensured that there would be no catharthis. While ruthless, Bauer is hardly stoic. He looks like pure heck, and at the end of one of his adventures, he just breaks down and sobs like a baby.

My point is that Jack Bauer is not popular worldwide, but because he is an "American"; because his America is a fictional hostile wasteland that only vaguely resembles reality. Rather, he is popular because he is an epic hero. And humanity as celebrated epic heros, for good or for awesome, since the dawn of civilization. As a matter of fact, it's one of the defining characteristics of civilization.

So there.