Comments (149)

unfortunately many english people would rather have another as an allie bvut the only allternative is russia, and they are even more untrustworthy.

Cheer up, Citizen. Always keep in mind that the world isn't anti-American, it's polarized. For every loss of a Howard to a Rudd there's a swap of a Chirac with a Sarkozy.

One of our most consistent allies, though, is also the largest democracy in the world. The only people who think America is universally disliked in the world are Eurocentrics who either think India is still a third-world country -- which it hasn't been for some time now -- or more likely simply don't think of India at all.

By their omission these people demonstrate their ignorance of other nations, peoples, and cultures, which makes their criticism of Americans a projection of their own shortcomings rather than any sort of relevant complaint about us.

We Americans understand that the world is a complicated place and that in it we have more friends than enemies, precisely because most people appreciate having a strong ally whose motives are compatible with their national agenda.

Rather than complain about Mr. Bakshi stacking the deck with America-haters we can contribute something positive ourselves, simply by coming to these forums and telling the truth. Do so with the confidence that most of the free world loves America.

Gee, looks like the reporter found what he was looking for poeple around the world that hate America. Good job, I bet your left wing anti-American boss is real proud.

"... it crams Americanism globalisation/consumerism down the worlds throat ..."
Right, like we force you to buy our stuff. The Opium Wars were I believe a British affair.

"... dancing around with evangelical funadementalistic views ... president of the world."
Actually fundamentalists believe the next "President of the World" will be the anti-Christ ...
Wow, I just realized you and they have something in common. Imagine!

"Just watch one british satirical show to confirm my views."
Wasn't it British satire that decided witches by duckweight? That your intellect was nurtured at the feet of Sir Bedevere explains everything.

"Thank god we don't live in a country where it is considered racist to fly our flag"
I am English and believe that as a nation we are very tolerant especially in London of other cultures. America however is not it is so far up it own arse that it crams Americanism globalisation/consumerism down the worlds throat and it is too blind singing i'm proud to be an american while dancing around with evangelical funadementalistic views that they may as well follow futuramas idea and have a president of the world.

Just watch one british satirical show to confirm my views. just piss off and make the world a better place before you heat the world up so much it burns even the fat on your bodies

"... Paris Hilton ..."

South Park

"wow, british women are strikingly ugly."

Except we don't name ours "Paris Hilton" and then stick them on television.

"All you have to do is go to any venue with a large group of Yanks and you'll see the mob mentality at work."

Frequent bathers tend to stick together.

"How else were Europe supposed to get rid of their religious lunatics?"

Would that emigration to America had been Europe's "Final Solution".

"... how were we to know that those lunatic losers would actually survive ..."

It's amazing how well a country's religious minorities thrive when they're not being hunted by Roundheads, Inquisitors, and the Gestapo.

"Or maybe we should remember ritual burning of CD's by the Dixie Chicks?"

And still more Americans burned the flag. Dissent all 'round, looks like. I realize that someone from the country that banned Piglet might not be familiar with the concept of allowing EVERYONE freedom of speech.

"They left to set up theocratic fundamentalist govt ... I love the [C]onstitution ..."

And there's the contradiction. If there were factions seeking to impose theocracy in America at the time of our founding, they failed. The First Amendment is proof -- as are our thriving religious minorities Europe chased away.

In America Gershwin and Einstein will always be revered ... one more piece of evidence that we're wiser than you.

"... wow, british women are strikingly ugly."

Those fox hunters are foxes! Have you seen those babes in the body paint? "Kiss me, Hardy!"

wow, british women are strikingly ugly.

Can I just ask Steve Gregg to get his 'facts' right, paticularly after whining about others getting their facts wrong. EU citizens don't need a passport to go anywhere in the EU. As for tribes and flags... well America is a tribe. All you have to do is go to any venue with a large group of Yanks and you'll see the mob mentality at work. Just like anywhere else in the world. Various people have written that the flag and patriotism does not stifle dissent I would remind everyone (paticularly Americans) of the tone of debate in the run up to the Iraq war. The French were characterised by huge numbers as almost pure evil. (Freedom fries anyone?)Or maybe we should remember ritual burning of CD's by the Dixie Chicks? Everyone (Except you Barack! As we hear so often.) was jumping on the Iraq gravy train at the time. You're right by the way, America has done has done various good things in the world, just like it has done various crummy things in the world. As to the poster complaining that America was founded by people thrown out of Europe, that is definatly true. How else were Europe supposed to get rid of their religious lunatics? If Australia had been around then who knows where they would have gone. It has come back to bite us though, how were we to know that those lunatic losers would actually survive. All we can say is thank god for immigration since then which at least diluted the lunacy for a while. Winnie, if you're going to make moronic statements can you please preface them? Preferably with "This is my moronic statement." Britain had a form of democracy centuries before the US was an apple in the founders' eye. Freedom from the govt has also been a British tradition - Parliament since the 12th century. What makes you think you have the right to lecture us? The settlers/pilgrims didn't leave Europe to set up a free and democratic govt. They left to set up theocratic fundamentalist govt did'nt they teach you anything about the founding of your country? In fact, maybe that's why you're having trouble with your local loonies now. Crack open a history book, you might learn something. As to those people who don't care what the world thinks, (Mike) you might not care now but you will when you want something. Marching around threatening countries works for a short while, but on the long term it'll backfire when countries start telling you to stick it up your ass. So, you'll care when you want something and who knows, by then it maybe too late. America isn't going to be top dog forever. (Once again, check history books) One last thing, I'v noticed that people 'defending' America frequently deny that posters from foreign countries have a right to feel the way they do. Everyone has a right, I'm not American but I love the constitution, hate the President and find it a pity that you're country is full of fruitloops.

That's quite an imagination you have. That appears to be all you have, as there are no actual records of any of the incidents you've so vividly described.

Ever heard of Scott Thomas Beauchamp? You and he ought to do lunch, talk to an agent ...

just for the record, im a very white blue eyed 5'2"(small) woman of irish-french descent.

so there was no race issue- prior to 911, other than my head covering, no one ever had an unkind word for me as im a very helpful and cheerful person.

some of the people were ashamed of how i was treated but not enough to stand up.

as a matter of record, i was a very active catholic before i became muslim, on my own, and was head of the womens committee in the church and well known for my service activities for the community.

i lived in a small town called millvale when 911 hit. the steel mills had been closed for some 30 years at the time and there was high unemployment, alcoholism and other attendant problems when a whole town is thrown out of work.

the center of the town was the veterans of foreign wars club, and a canon with a monument.
this was in pittsburgh pennsylvania- which is the second city after DC on the hit list because the defense systems and star wars are located in a 40 story underground building there.

many people living there have no idea they are the number 2 target for a foreign bomb. the entire town was evacuated on 911.
i had to walk several miles home as there wasnt a single car in the city. the second plane was downed right outside its borders.

i went home on 911 and didnt really kknow what was happening as there was no one to tell me-
(i was going to work, but there was no one there).

when i went home i turned on the tv and learned what happened.
i painted a large peace sign on my blinds in my front window, facing the main street.

i went out later, and every single home and building had a flag hanging proudly- except me.

i was the only muslim in my town, and no one had cared one whit before. i was very active in serving my community and loved.

i wear the head scarf which no one seemed to notice before, many thought i was a nun.

before i even left my home to see the flags, someone threw a brick through my window.

i was spit on every single day on my way to work, a lady came out of her house to wait for me and scream at me to go back to my country, followed by a volley of spit. (it was the only bus stop to the city, no other way to get there).

a man used to come out of the bar every day, he would rush out when he saw me and scream filth at me-

a man pumping gas that id worked with in the past, told me he was going to punch my face in and beat the f*** out of me, then he followed me slowly home in his car.

i called the police when a group of drunks were screaming at me outside my home, and they told me to come outside(police), then they jacked me up on the car, arrested me- (my neighbor kept telling them that i was the one who called them they were arresting the worng person)
after 6 or so hours in a cell they drove me to another station and ripped my hijab off my head to humiliate me.

i was driving once, and the same policemen stopped me because they "suspected" my license was suspended. my record of 20 some years was perfect- not even a parking ticket.

one month later i received a ticket for 500 dollars.
a few days later, i was driving and again stopped, and informed my license was suspended.
and ticketed for driving without a license.

they took an old ID number, and transposed it with my current valid license number, invalidating it somehow - (illegally)

it took 3 years and 4000.00 dollars to get my license back, now tarnished with this false suspension.
they sent a constable to my house every month before the "fine" was due, and added another 50.00 for his visit almost every month.

i have many other stories, but these are the immediate happenings after 911.

and every single person involved was a proud flag waving american.

so the flag has a different connotation for me.
thank you and peace

"Please tell me their efforts are about more than a piece of cloth."
Their oath is to the Constitution, which is indeed more than a piece of cloth: it is composed of paper and ink.

"I wish that Americans were culturally literate ..."
"we have no cultural identity ..."
This pernicious myth was invented by Europeans jealous that we invented jazz.

"[B]ombs create ... terrorists."
So does appeasement. Bombs also eliminate terrorists, a feature appeasement lacks.

"The level of self-censorship in public discourse is mind-boggling ..."
Sometimes they even manage to restrain themselves from comparing Bush to Hitler before 10 AM.

"There's something quite violent in tonal and symbolic terms when people 'rally round the flag,'"
"The militarization of US popular culture is stronger than in any other country I've seen"
We like to keep our options open.

"How can you take a symbol of the American empire and identify with it... much less die for it?"
Read the Constitution.

"To be a hyperpower where most of the citizens don't know which countries, never mind understanding their cultures, invade is tragic."
Get over yourself. How much did YOU know about radical Islam before 9/11?
Unless we're The Amazing Kreskin there's no way we're going to know all about our enemies before they attack us.
Rest assured since 9/11 I've learned a great deal about radical Islam and even picked up some vocabulary, words like "Dhimmi" and "Sharia" -- "Fatwah" I already knew thanks to Salman Rushdie -- and that's really the best we could be expected to do.
I doubt many Americans had heard of arahito-kami on 12/6, either, but just the same they knew what to do about it on 12/8.

"The symbolism of the flags is also reflected in childish ideas of god ..."
I've noticed a curious trend of late: the foreigners most likely to label us Americans "childish" or "ignorant" are themselves the most ignorant of us.
Our flag stands for secular democracy as written in our Constitution -- if you'd bothered to read it before styling yourself an authority on Americans.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion."
Those words are in fact the root cause of the War on Terror, as is the Sharia code of our enemies. The basis of our conflict lies in the incompatibility of these two doctrines.

"America is no freer than the UK as far as i'm concerned."
Second Amendment, US Constitution.

"Europeans see them flying from a ship that his now headed for the Abyss of self-destructive nationalism ..."
Reminds me of this quote: "Fascism is forever descending on America, yet always seems to land in Europe."

I read an editorial in the left-leaning London Observer right after 9-11 which seemed to really capture the essence of what the flag is to the USA. Here is a link:

Waving not Drowning - Ed Vulliamy explores the many meanings of the Stars and Stripes

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/2001review/story/0,,624156,00.html

It is quite good.

I read an editorial in the left-leaning London Observer right after 9-11 which seemed to really capture the essence of what the flag is to the USA. Here is a link:

Waving not Drowning - Ed Vulliamy explores the many meanings of the Stars and Stripes

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/2001review/story/0,,624156,00.html

It is quite good.

I read an editorial in the left-leaning London Observer right after 9-11 which seemed to really capture the essence of what the flag is to the USA. Here is a link:

Waving not Drowning - Ed Vulliamy explores the many meanings of the Stars and Stripes

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/2001review/story/0,,624156,00.html

It is quite good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't flags created for the purpose of displaying them?

I'm amazed at all the British/Europeans who are proclaiming their countries are more "free" than the U.S. Forget about travel, pick up a book please! The only reason your countries are free now is because they followed America's excellent example. America was founded by Europeans escaping the tyranny of their governments. Eventually Europe caught on. They're a little slow but they get there eventually. Now if they could only extend those freedoms to their "refugees."

LOL! Europeans having a discussion about American nationalism? They do realize that they live on a continent half the size of North America but it has been broken up into over 47 countries all due to nationalism, right? That's almost as nonsensical as Europeans giving America advice on how to integrate immigrants into their society!

I am one of those flag-waving Americans. Nice to meetcha.

It's amusing to read through this thread, a festival of hyperbolic hatred of America. I'm particularly struck by how many of these things the posters know for a fact are simply fiction.

For example, the charge that Americans don't have passports and don't visit foreign countries. Until recently, Americans didn't even need a passport to enter Mexico nor Canada. Europeans need a passport to cross the street. If you drive two hundred miles in Europe, you might need to get your passport stamped a couple times. If you drive two hundred miles in America, you may not have left Texas yet. Millions of Americans have lived all over the world, especially Europe, by serving in the military. There is no equivalent program that delivers Europeans to America. This passport criticism is intellectually dishonest.

The reason Americans like me display the flag so prominently is that we own America. Unlike the subjects of most other countries in the world, we are citizens of America who run our country and have a stake in it. Of course, you can't expect that same kind of pride nor patriotism from countries where the rulers run roughshod over subjects who have no rights, which is most of the world.

Also, the American flag, unlike other flags, stands for a set of principles: life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. Other flags are flown by countries who stand for blood and turf. That makes a big difference. For example, if you're Japanese, your pride is centered on your race and the islands of Japan. That's not something the Japanese would want to trumpet after that Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere didn't work out. In that respect, the flags of other countries stand for something less than the noble ideals of the US flag.

The same goes in more muted form for European countries which are based on race and territory. Who wants to fly a flag based on that these days? America, by contrast, has no tribe.

You can only be citizen of many of these countries by being born into them. However, anybody can become an American by believing in the same things we do, things like freedom and democracy and merit and private property and individual rights. These are the best ideas ever thought. Some foreigners who immigrate to America believe that they were always Americans but simply born in the wrong country. They're right.

I might point out that America has served the world well. It was America that provided the muscle to win WWII and the benevolent treatment of our fanatic enemies which led them both to become economic superpowers. Such generosity is unprecedented in human history. We've also cured polio, landed men on the moon, fed a large chunk of the world, and rushed to help every time there is a catastrophe. We have a lot of which to be proud. That's a good reason to fly the flag. Yahooo, America!

The idea that anybody made us fly the flag after Sep 11 is nuts. The day after Sep 11, everybody was scrambling to fly a flag. Most people didn't have one. You saw a lot of faded and ragged flags the weekend after the attack, flags which had obviously pulled out of the back of the closet. It took about six weeks for fresh flags to hit the store shelves to catch up with demand.

When dopey foreigners say we were forced to fly the flag, it's obvious they don't understand America and are erroneously projecting their own values on to us. I don't doubt that in most foreign countries the only way you could get everyone to fly the flag is to force them. America is different from those countries.

Flag flying has not stopped anybody from criticizing America, as if anything could. When such critics claim that nationalism has suppressed criticism of the war with accusations of treason, I might point out that many of the critics of the war are, in fact, traitors.

I've been to all the large anti-war demonstrations in Washington, DC. Every one of them was organized by the Communists of ANSWER and UFPJ who fly banners promoting the overthrow of the US government in favor of a socialist regime. Revolution is the main theme of all these demonstrations. I see people walking around with signs saying "AMERICA MUST BE DESTROYED." Call me crazy, but that sounds like treason. And I have yet to see anybody, not even one out of hundreds of thousands of protestors, tote a sign criticizing Saddam, jihadis, snuff videos, beheadings, etc. What a curious omission. The traitors doth protest too much.

I am an American and I must say I'm a little disappointed in this discussion, particularly the views on the flag. The American, to me, represents the best in America, regardless of who is in office. It exemplifies the resilience of the American people and their determination to live as free peoples. When Francis Scott Key wrote 'The Star-Spangled Banner', he saw a flag that stood throughout the night despite being battered by the British, as if it were determined not to be destroyed.

I myself and most Americans are not of the mindset that we don't care about the world. We do care. What we don't care about is naked hatred for us and our wrongs (real or imagined). What we don't like is running to check the rest of the world for permission to walk out of our front door. And what we don't care about is Third-World dictators telling us what a free country looks like.

So criticize us if you want. We appreciate healthy discussion. But we don't appreciate being called "Nazis" or "Fascists". We are quite far from it.

P.S. - Regarding Bush, I will unabashedly say that I like and admire him. That does NOT mean I have not or will not criticize him when I believe he is wrong, like on the recent immigration issue. Liking someone doesn't mean you never question or disagree with them. I think Bush, in regards to Afghanistan and Iraq, did something few would have even dared to do: he decided to take the fight to people who had years ago already declared war on Western civilization. You can say they are no threat, but when 10% of a one-billion-adherent religion think Osama bin Laden is a hero, that is not a benign problem.

What a lot of people don't see is that, regardless of who is in office, these Islamists hate us all the same. Why is Thailand being ravaged by terrorists, or the Philippines? Why do terrorists still plot against Spain even though they pulled out?

The truth is that these characters would hate all of us even if we abandoned the country and settled on the moon, for the mere fact that the way we live is "un-Islamic". For the world to criticize Bush for being pro-active where it was complacent is despicable. This is particularly geared toward the Brits who despise us, who suffered from the 7/7 attacks and are facing a creeping demand for sharia law by a growing population of British Muslims.

I am not saying, "eradicate Islam" or anything like that. But it's time for the West to stop the self-flagellation and start asking the tough questions. Blaming ourselves for every evil in the world is not only wrong and stupid, it's dangerous.

It's always amusing to read how obsessed the Brits and Euros are with America and its people. It just reinforces America's leadership and any manager worth their weight can tell you nobody likes the leader. This is what they discuss in schools across the pond? American flag-flying? SILLY!

And I suppose wearing a green Palestinian headband or waving a yellow Hezballah flag (featuring an AK47 no less) while screaming for the death of anyone who doesn't do as they command is quite alright, is it? Morons.

I love America and her beautiful flag of freedom and liberty for all.

America is an evil and imperialistic society that needs to be eradicated from our world. All this talk about "freedom" and "self-determination" and "individual choice and opportunity" is not only outdated, it's a bunch of naive tomfoolery.

Everybody knows that peace will only come about through acceptance of a non-democratic, totalitarian alternative to the virus of freedom that those arrogant Americans have spread all over the globe.

So please beat me, stifle my opportunities to better myself, and make my wife and daughters wear a burka. And if a few gay bathhouses get bombed...well, that's just "cultural" and we'll have to accept that. Because anything's better than those millionaire entrepreneurs and those middle America "moral values" rubes...

Wow! these statements are absolutely amazing. If America is such a horrible place why is it that so many people want to move there? Why is it the most vibrant economy in the world? Maybe America should just step back and say "hey you guys, take care of it yourself. we're out of here." i've seen the employment figures for Britain. Shoot NHS can't even hire 9,000 junior doctors as the system is broke.

Tony Harding posted "Naturally enough since it was the American people who voted this man into office they are held responsible for a choice which the rest of the world is obliged to live with".
Gee Tony I have to say that I'm really sory about the Clinton years also.

The primary girl who speaks in the video is Beth English. The other students include Adam Cotton, Jessica Carter, Caitriona Burgum, Stephanie Morris, Simone Burton, Hannah Lister, Roisin McDermott. They are all part of Colleen Harris' class.

I heard the same concerns among Europeans about American flag-waving among my friends there. (They also point out that no one there places their hands over their hearts during their national anthems.)

I think Europeans misinterpret American flag-waving. In most cases, it isn't a case of nationalism but of self-indulgence. Americans who display flags are usually making a statement of personal/civic identity (as we did after 9/11) rather than sending a message.

Europeans have a much darker history with nationalism than we have on this side of The Pond. The Iraq Was has been a terrible mistake. Our immigration dilemma dates directly to the apex of American Nationalism, the Mexican War (1845-48).

With that said, America has never produced an ueber-nationalist on the scale of Napoleon or Hitler (although, I might grant us a Milosevic or two), nor has our country suffered with the ramifications of extreme nationalism in the way that the citizens of France and Germany did.

Worse than the flags or the anthems, perhaps Europeans see them flying from a ship that his now headed for the Abyss of self-destructive nationalism--an abyss they know all too well.

i'm one of the students featured on the video

and i'd just like to clarify that we were not in any sense saying that the presence of the American flag stifles protests over the Iraq war, merely that Amiercan patriotism, in some instances, has led dissenters to be labelled as 'un-American' (e.g. criticisms of the Patriotic Act), particularly in the wake of 9/11, something which was covred greatly on British tv.
JRLR i think you pretty much summarise what we were trying to grasp. thanks.
as for the large number of ignorant and aggressive posts on here- may i remind you that we are entitled to our opinions just as you are and would like to be respected for them.
America is no freer than the UK as far as i'm concerned.

i'm one of the students featured on the video

and i'd just like to clarify that we were not in any sense saying that the presence of the American flag stifles protests over the Iraq war, merely that Amiercan patriotism, in some instances, has led dissenters to be labelled as 'un-American' (e.g. criticisms of the Patriotic Act), particularly in the wake of 9/11, something which was covred greatly on British tv.
JRLR i think you pretty much summarise what we were trying to grasp. thanks.
as for the large number of ignorant and aggressive posts on here- may i remind you that we are entitled to our opinions just as you are and would like to be respected for them.
America is no freer than the UK as far as i'm concerned.

Thank you Terry for that clarification.

i was born and grew up in the uk from the thirties on through the sixties. to see a union jack or a scottish standard was a rare event. even during the the 1939 -1945 war it was virtually invisible. in those decades in glasgow the flag was unfurled mainly at football stadia on saturdays to draw attention to the existence of the availability of anti irish comfort zones. the british nationalists were purely an after thought and i would suggest that they only play a minor role in the flag war. i hope this sets the record a little more straight than the comments of the students who may not be aware that the non flag waving is in fact the british tradition and remained so until the thatcher years when efforts were made to capitalize on nationalism for political gain.

i was born and grew up in the uk from the thirties on through the sixties. to see a union jack or a scottish standard was a rare event. even during the the 1939 -1945 war it was virtually invisible. in those decades in glasgow the flag was unfurled mainly at football stadia on saturdays to draw attention to the existence of the availability of anti irish comfort zones. the british nationalists were purely an after thought and i would suggest that they only play a minor role in the flag war. i hope this sets the record a little more straight than the comments of the students who may not be aware that the non flag waving is in fact the british tradition and remained so until the thatcher years when efforts were made to capitalize on nationalism for political gain.

The very real hostility towards the USA has come about because the President becomes the very personification of the country and its people. In this instance, when you have a President whose integrity at best is questionable and whose advisors /administrators seem to be blessed with a greater than bearable dose of lethal arrogance,you have an amalgam which unsurprisingly leads to a rejection and hostility towards most things American. Naturally enough since it was the American people who voted this man into office they are held responsible for a choice which the rest of the world is obliged to live with.

Amar, as we can see, the issue of the flag (two-edged like a sword) is an extremely sensitive one, even in Mother Teresa’s backyard (Loreto)… It is one that arouses the most passionate debates. In the US, where the flag is omnipresent (I can bear witness it has been the case at least for the last sixty years…), where so many people literally wear the American flag, it should come as no surprise that the issue generate such a large number of comments.

What I like about those British students’ reactions, more particularly, is: 1. The fact that they seek the meaning and purpose of peoples’ gestures involving the flag. 2. That they do not take the matter too seriously (let alone dramatically). 3. Hearing them giggle and laugh at how people sometimes use the flag. Those are very healthy reactions, I believe.

It is commonly assumed that to raise the flag is simply to assert (proudly?) one’s national identity in front of everybody. Simple: It means “I am American” or “We are Americans”. The gesture reinforces one’s sense of belonging, of being part of, being of the substance of the American nation.

What those thoughtful British students mean to say is that the issue “The flag and us” is not that simple.

People do not always just raise the flag. Sometimes, the flag is raised at half mast. There are cases where people would simply display or carry the flag. There are other circumstances where some will display the flag upside down, walk on the flag, spit on the flag or burn the flag.

Those students wish to know what the “flag gesture” really means, in each and every case. “WHY that gesture of yours with the flag?” – “What exactly do you mean by that gesture?”

Are you indeed asserting your national identity publicly?
Do you mean to say: “Standing on guard for thee!”?
Do you mean to communicate that you subscribe to shared ideals? (Which are they, then?)
Do you mean to tell the world: “My country right or wrong!”?
Are you saying: “Long live America and damn the world” (“Deutschland über alles!”)?
Should we understand you mean: “Let’s keep America white!”?
Did we hear: “In your face!” (Saddam Hussein’s statue, face covered with US flag)?
You mean: “Watch the winners marching in, you catholic losers!” (Northern Ireland)?

Pray tell: Is your gesture one of pride, of fidelity, of idealism? Or is it one of fanaticism, of xenophobia, of racism, of dominance and intended to scoff at, to humiliate others? Is it daring, insulting? Does it express solidarity or rejection? Does it convey one’s presence or the fact that one is taking possession of the place?

Or are you now rejoicing and celebrating? Are you grieving and mourning? Is it a rallying gesture? Is it in protest, defiance?

Is your gesture generous or mean, conciliatory or arrogant, compassionate or hateful?

Tell us, which is it? For flags can be appropriated and used to further one’s causes, you know?

Those British students know full well the issue cannot be summarized in this simplistic equation: “Flag = raise the flag = innocuous = being patriotic = undoubtedly good = “that’s it that’s all!””

One may therefore want to decide just how and when one will choose to be patriotic. There are shameful ways one may not wish ever to raise the flag. Time to take an oath, then: “I, an American, will never raise the flag as a gesture of... So help me God! ”

I know crazy isn't it. The notion that one can be patriotic without fyling a flag. You see the notion in Great Britain is that all people are considered equal, regardless of their ideas. Crazy!

Alex Florida - That's a very bold statement you make.... care to back it up a little?

Jonathan:

I objectively read through most of the postings here, and without a doubt yours is the most inane. While others convey some intelligence, yours enlightens no one. Maybe you are one of those phony patriots, who hides behind the flag.

Jonathan:

I objectively read through most of the postings here, and without a doubt yours is the most inane. While others convey some intelligence, yours enlightens no one. Maybe you are one of those phony patriots, who hides behind the flag.

Wow, there are some ignorant people in the world. (That is directed at the people posting on this forum by the way.)

This flag bearing nationalism is very troubling. It impedes our abilities, or tendencies, to criticize the government's trespasses and wrong-doings.

This flag bearing nationalism is very troubling. It impedes our abilities, or tendencies, to criticize the government's trespasses and wrong-doings.

I love how europeans constantly criticize america's foreign policy, if it weren't for Europe and two world wars we would not be in Iraq, we would not had 9/11.

Does anyone remember this?

Someone said that it is the Constitution we revere, not the flag. That is true to a point ... we revere the promises and assertion of the most basic rights in the Declaration of Independence (no matter that this merely reiterated points made years earlier).

The Constitution safeguards those promises. If the party in power abuses those rights, there are mechanisms to pull things back. You can argue whether Bush has gone too far, but the bottom line is that he and his ilk can only go so far, whatever your political stripes.

FYI, for those who equate us to nazis, you all make me sick ... I guarantee that people like you never once took real action to attempt to help other people.

America - land of the free, home of warrantless wiretaps and torture.

Wow. When you add it all up we do look pretty bad. We were the only country to ever use the atomic bomb. My grandfather was in the Navy and visted Nagasaki and Hiroshima after WWII. He said it was so obvious we targeted civilians that he later renounced his American citizenship out of shame and moved to Switzerland. American patriotism is synonomous with naziism.

I agree, Chuck. Ethnic cleansing (the mass extermination of the American Indian), concentration camps (aka reservations), and Lebensraum (Manifest Destiny)to name a few were American inventions. Slavery was introduced by the Dutch, but Americans made it uniquely their own. Saturation bombing of Vietnamese civilians, My Lai, and napalm. Now we have Abu Ghraib. We kill thousands of Iraqi women and children so we can have oil. Our soldiers rape and massacre civilians and get a slap on the wrist. Yes, we're the Nazis of the 21st century.

The stars and stripes is the new swastika.

"Finally, I wanted to ask you, do you prefer comments to go newest to oldest, or oldest to newest. Email me at america@washingtonpost.com and let me know."

oldes to newest please. That way, you can catch-up with a conversation. It's more natural to read from top-to-bottom

Have any of you been to Denmark? They fly their flag even more than Americans do theirs - it is a ubiquitous presence throughout the country. Are they hyper-patriotic imperialists?
Policies and laws are one things, flying a flag is another.

Re: "Alien"

Alien is an old word, which I assume we (the United State) got from legal codes from the Kingdom of Great Britain.

Alien, as in no from this World (Extra-Terrestrial) is a much more modern use of this word. (Probably this use coincided with the sci-fi novels in the 19th and early 20th cenury)

While perhaps we should use a more "friendly" word, - its not a word that the US picked to make people feel like little green men, its a word, that we'e been using for a long time, that is now associated with little green men.

i think its stupid to display your flag every day it should only be on special occasions but its a free country (not too free under bush) so i let u go ahead,
i was born in holland and they really show the flag in a very special way on the queens birthday and liberation day to remember that the americans and canadians liberated holland on may 5th 1945.
so several times a year makes it very very special otherwise it becums a a common site . but i will admit my flag will be flying hi the day cheney (viz.prez. incharge of torture) and bush leave the whitehouse and go on trial for killing 1000s of our soldiers in iraq and 100000s of others in iraq.

my precedent post was direct to Mr MiKE SMITH..who enjoy about the number of refugees..to decides that he lives in the only one paradise in the world

sorry..but your logic is really poor.if you judge your country from the refugee number...Italy or German will be the best countries in the world..or if you like the Tchad, with a million refugees from the Darfur..
and when you say "Who cares" you show the same selfish arrogance of your Leader Maximo..the Great Decider, or the Great Incompetent and Liar, as you like..Mr Bush..

Hi Mike,

Not sure how best to respond. On the one hand, the answer includes: both some US citizens and our government, and a number of foreign publics and their governments. Not much help there, I suppose.

To be specific, US citizens (travelers, teachers, NGO workers, soldiers) can be greeted warmly or face harassment abroad (as I did in Zimbabwe, among other places). Foreign governments can choose to create anti-US alliances or redirect domestic discontent toward a foreign "enemy". In the long run, these alliances aren't good for us, and can provide safe-haven for more militant enemies.

And then there is the issue of where talent is flocking. The US has been the destination of choice for years, but there is indication that in many parts of the world, talented graduates we could use are going to England, Australia, and other nations. These are just some of the issues to watch for. Perceptions have a lot to do with the choices people make.

However, I don't ne