Dr. Ali Ettefagh serves as a director of Highmore Global Corporation, an investment company in emerging markets of Eastern Europe, CIS, and the Middle East. He is the co-author of several books on trade conflict, resolution of international trade disputes, conflicts in letters of credit, trade-related banking transactions, sovereign debt, arbitration and dispute resolutions and publications specific to the oil and gas, communication, aviation and finance sectors. Dr. Ettefagh is a member of the executive committee and the board of directors of The Development Foundation, an advisor to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, and an advisor to a number of European companies. Dr. Ettefagh speaks Persian (Farsi), English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Arabic and Turkish.
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Ali Ettefagh
Tehran, Iran
Dr. Ali Ettefagh serves as a director of Highmore Global Corporation, an investment company in emerging markets of Eastern Europe, CIS, and the Middle East.
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Handle u r right that india gt 14 major langs lol..bt thats y jinnah said "india is nt a country or a nation" it involves many types of ppl bt wat the thing lacks is that there is no same NATION!there is nothing same.bt in pakistan urdu is major lang which is spoken everywhere and all r equal n our religion is same, lang is same etc other things r same too...i would like 2 tell u if u honestly think of pakistan's problems u wont need any1 to explain ull realise everything!b honest realise its problems PPL b aware of its problems dun think its nt ur country bt think that wats the best thing u can do for it! .thats the truth pakistan is greatest n see this quote"Every Great person gt alot of problems bt that person solves it thats y he is called GREAT"
Salam and hi,
y u want pakistan to b destroyed?wat has pakistan done to u??N when the terrorism is held whole world blame pakistan y?this is offensive.
AND u non pakistanis no one can destroy pakistan its nt afghanistan or iraq that its easy to destroy it... Its a NECLUER COUNTRY so keep ur fingers out of this. ALLAH is with us.. One more thing that some pakistanis dont have faith in Allah PLZZZZ have faith ... pakistan will never destroy n the ppl of pakistan r brave enough .
So never ever try to harm pakistan!!AND i want government of pakistan to b good cuz..the government dont relises any thing about pakistanis like the amounts of oil r increasing day by day..the poor r being more poor.REALIZE!!the broken heart of poor pakistanis..they dont gt anything to eat.V R PAKISTANIS N V CAN DEAL WITH EVERY CHICK... Allah is pakistan ki halat achi kr de or aik din pakistan bohot powerful aur bohat rich hojae.(AMEEN)
This article of dr Ettifagh i read of dissoluting Pakistan as is an artifical state boundaries with multiple issues.This would be annoying most Pakistanis like me which country doesn't have problem like India in our neighbourhood facing ethanical issues Iran on western border has political stratageic controversies and all around world. Thou we are in our bad hard run crisis but we maintain our FEDERATION despite conspiracies and west intervention because we had leaders like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Benazir and millions of patriotic Pakistani who will give their lives but not surrunder our great nation to the millitants. And we will make it times are changing civil, political and judicial awareness is smoothly and gradually coming and heralding a social revolution.
It is really very nice to know that soo many people out here care soo much for the ordinary citizens of Pakistan that they are sitting right there in the protection of their little dumb houses, enjoying the luxury of the internet and plotting the new world order around it.
Talk sense. Talk humanity. Talk about building instead of tearing Pakistan apart and gluing it to India.
The only reason why Pakistan stands where it stands today is because of the US interference in our personal problems and constant supply of aid and instruction to encourage training of militants that they needed in their 'cause of Afghanistan' - We stood there with the US in their war against terror sending our troops to Afghanistan along with their army, letting the US use our land and bases to launch attacks in their pseudo hunt of bin Ladin. What do we get in return? The title of terrorists?
Absolutely reasonable., and sensible. The 2-Nation Theory was fraudulent, and based on a poor reading of history. Lets accept that first. Agreed, there were problems among Hindus and Muslims (the 2 major communities of undivided india), but partition was NOT the solution. Exlusivity led to alienation and Andulasian Syndrome. That was about the past.
Now what ? Pakistan will go down in a very bloody way (unlike the Soviet union). At Pakistan's birth, millions died. At Pakistan's demise millions will die again (in civil war).
It will be very very bloody. Then it will disintegrate into 4 peices - Sindhudesh, Balochistan, and land-locked states of Pakhtoon`khwaa and Punjabistan. This is the natural state of their being. Eventually, to realise economies of scale, one by one., these states would join the Indian Union.
Bangladesh too would realise their folly and join India.
United India (indo-pak-bangla) is the destiny of the subcontinent. 1947, 1971, are mere footnotes. They will be washed away. India will be a super-power when united... based on respect for its 2 major communities Hindu and Muslim.
Both will thrive and both will progress. (This is what Maulana Azad said... but no one listened to him. Even Gandhi ji.. ditched Maulana Azad and Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan [Frontier Gandhi], and accepted Pakistan, after calling it a sin first !). Anyways... this is 2008... so lets be forward looking.
Cheers for a United India. Only this will root out terrorists and criminals of humanity (both hindu and muslim). These safforn and green fascists deserve to be marginalised. United India would do JUST that.
Dr Ali you are absolutly wrong and unaware of Pakistan
The people of all the provences are having very good relations and they are not against each other ,only its maliter and cevil buracices are creating problems for the commen people but now awarness is being created and in very near future Pakistan will be emerge a strong and stable country.No country in world consistr of a single nation or ethnicity rather consist of multy ethnic multilangual and multi religen entities.Look at U.S.A it has a very diversified population havind different colors ,religeons,races and languages.
Iran too is not a single nation it has Baloch,kurd and arab but it is a nation.
I am very sorry to say but this is a really pathetic approach . Pakistan is an independent Nuclear state which have a common religion culture and traditon the people of Pakistan are one and united when somebody attacks its soverigntity which we had already proven in the War of 1965.I agree that there are riots voilence and coups in this very short history of 60 years but then again doesnt that happen in India , indians had Muslim,Hindu riots several times they had Sikh Hindu riots which were all very voilent leaving thousands dead.So why dont you dissolve india as well. whatever happens in a country is the countries own responsiblity nobody has the right to interfere .
The author mentioned about Opium sumgling let me correct him if you analyse in the Taliban era the opium sumgling was almost stopped and they destroyed many harvest of Millions of Dollar, but as Amercians doesnt want that to happen and from the time Amercian based Govt have been enforce in afghanistan opium sumgling has increased so who is too blame now?
Pakistan is a soverign state and its not iraq or afghanistan that Western power can destroy it so easily. So please stop thinking of such fantasies which will never happen and thing something more productive.
Pakistan is only a breeding ground for terrorists and a nuisnace for India and the whole world. Its people will never come to terms with the fact that their country, such as it is, was created out of hatred towards India.
We do not want such a dangerous country in our neighbourhood.If the world wants peace it has to look squarely and solve the Pakistan problem. It is not going to go away.
Dissolving Pakistan does not mean dissolving its citizens. It means helping them build an alternate arrangement to live in peace.
Pakistanis could have made a different future, but the time is lost. Dissolving Pakistan is not just an idea it is the ONLY option.
Hi,
I agree you are right about diverse thoughts and traditions people have in Pakistan. But isn't it better to find similarities and unite people instead of dividing them. A process of 'new boundries' will end in hundreds of innocent people death.
I know people are different but very few want a new country. Multiple relations with America, Alqaeda or 'extremists!' can be used to communicate and resolve the problems....not just increase.
...then also dissolve Iran too because if Pakistan is dissolved there should be Greater Baluchistan. Then some of the parts of Iran belong to Kurds, the tribe of Sultan Salahudiin Ayubi, who have no land.Then why to forget Azaris they also need a piece of land to make Azaristan. Then what Iran is left with....?
Mr. Ettifagh, please don't throw stones on others while sitting in a glass-room.
Do it, and do it quickly. Before the Egypt-Saudi-Pakistan axis of evil sunnis try to wipe out the very young roots of democracy in the region.
Pakistan is indeed a failed project while the bigger piece of the carve-up, India, has a bright future ahead. Cannot help but think that it is due to the hateful version of Islam that is practiced in Pakistan.
Very clear thinking and a good idea.
Pakistan is about to implode and we must get ahead of the curve and not watch the Tsunami from a distance. And it is going to be a big problem either way. Can we afford a mass export of terrorists from Pakistan?
Wow!! excellent piece, great analysis and hope the US think tanks are taking note of your recommendations apart from hoping to build Pakistan to counter India & China. Pakistan has its history of training terrorists,grooming Taliban, Alqaeda, harbouring criminals, Lawless land and Army/ISI/Dictators are rulers of the nation. Pakistan is the origin of world Terror planning and training. One cannot be an expert terrorist until they get trained by Pakistani Army. This is known to rest of the world except Americans, after 911 Musharaf was doing lip service for the $10Billions and protecting his Taliban thugs, Alqeda,ISI,QA khan and modernizing Army to fight with India for Kargil war mis-adventure. Mush realized the double sword Taliban only after sucide bomb attempts on his life for playing double game with them. Before 911, Army thugs were training Alqaeda & Taliban and ISI was busy planning terror activities against non-Islamic countries except China, as China was providing technology and building their Military might with US Aid Money.
All the terror network is still intact in Pakistan, Osama is still enjoying freedom in this country & so are the Madrasas which spit out venom against non-islamists.
What you sow is what you get, this is exactly true in their case.
Before going in the details i think we should really consider the ground facts and realities.
Dear Mr Ettifgah,
You are just another ordinary human being, your opinion is just another opinion.
if you are from iran then you should better know the besides the smuggling you are ignoring the ground fact that THE ATOM you have on basis of which you show eyes to AMERICA, given to you from WHOM? can u exactly state WHOM?
NO because nobody is here to take the responsibility of showing GOOD side,
But you know what
PAKISTAN is forever, and will be. besides the 60 bad yrs we still have much more than some other countries.
INSHALLAH ALLAH is with us HE'll let pakistan through all this and you will be the witness.
Resources will also be divide among different provinces. Which includes Nuclear arsenals, that will also be divided among the provinces.
Anyway guess.... from which province that extremists would have taken over, where the first nuclear arsenal will go to.....
Just a thought.....
Anyway practically Unity and stability (economic and social etc.) is very important in Pakistan, not only for Pakistanis, but for the rest of the world also. Furthermore Islam is part of Pakistan, will remain part of Pakistan and will keeps Pakistan united (ENSHALLAH). If anyone wants Islam taken away from Pakistan, I encourage them to go and study Islam before you make any judgments.
Furthermore about the Indians commenting on Pakistani politics....
Look at your country India before commenting on Pakistani situation.
There are 16 (sixteen) insurgencies going on right now in India.
4000 Muslims were burned alive and killed by Hindu extremists, just few years back.
Siks had an uprising against the government and many massacred.
Approx. 700,000 Indian troops are in Indian held Kashmir, denying peoples rights and freedom. No media personal is allowed there. (Look at the contrast to about 200,000 American troops in Iraq).
No private NGO is allowed in India.
Furthermore if India does not have a very huge army it would probably break apart.
Benezir Partially lives in UK (PPP). Altaf Hussain lives in UK(MQM). Nawaz Sharif partially lives in UK(PML-N). Imran Khan partially lives in UK(PTI). And many other top Pakistani politicians are in one way or the other are connected to UK. If Pakistan breaks up then definitely UK will soon become Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Even if Pakistan doesn't break up, UK will soon become Islamic Republic of Pakistan, as none in UK politics can compete with Pakistani Politicians. People of UK don't even know the people they are harboring and protecting.
Anyway EnshALLAH Pakistan will grow boundaries based on One Way of Life i.e. Islam. And EnshALLAH it will never break up.
Well If the witer of the column may read it I think there r certain things he didn't knew himself and certain things are clearly baseless in his own mind.
First there is a much strongly understandable and commonlanguage in Pakistan rather than English , which is URDU . I know its a bit badluck that its not the official language.
The views about lawlessness, smuggling and terror are basically not directly from Pakistan.
AS you said Afganistan is producing 90% of opium , Y not to stop them. Smuggling is taking between IRAN and Pak , Y dont we go on to stop cross boader mutually. Extremism , well I believe that only the media is highlighting the extremism in Pakistan, and not showing the complete picture of what is happening in Indian Held Khashmir, Afghanistan and IRAQ .
Then As per the Kashmir Issue, I think UN has passed the rasolution in favour of Pakistan.
I believe Pakistan is a Nation with a short 60 years history but it has seen alot of goods and bads, and I think its the greatness of this country that it is serviving all these things and its our Solid Believe that it will Servive this tough political time too.
I disagree with the ideas presented by Mr. Ali Ettefagh. There may be political difficulties and constitutional crises but thats not because of four provinces with different cultures.
I disagree with the ideas presented by Mr. Ali Ettefagh. There may be political difficulties and constitutional crises but thats not because of four provinces with different cultures.
Ali Ettefagh
I think you are out of your mind. We have a emergency its our problem not yours.You shiya always have a problem with the wahabisim.Why don't you understand all Pakistani's(97% muslims,3% minorities) all have the same problem.But we donot want your help, we want moral support from the countries who new what the freedom is not your hypothetical Islamic Shiya state.
The thing i remember is that we are not the one who's border you want to dissolve its your country that western countries want to tear apart, so why don't you see the matters of your country and leave us alone because we take good care of ourself INSHALLAH.
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
Et tu Brutus! Well done Mr. Etibagh What a great way to respond to the feelings of love and warmth people in Pakistan harbour for their brothers in Iran just because they share the same faith.
I guess it is more to do with the Iranian charachter of backstabbing anyone capable of standing up on its feet because the schezophrenic Iranian mind sees any freedom as a threat to its existence.
Anyway thank you for your comment, for I as a muslim cannot wish a brotherly muslim collection of about 70 million people ill.
I guess it is something to do with the basics of our faith- atleast the version practiced on our side of the border.
I totally disagree with Mr. Ali. Who is he to comment on Pakistan. All due respect but with all its flaws Pakistan has survived 60 years when it was claimed that it wont even survive 48 hrs.
There is a joke among intellectuals regarding Pakistan. When a writer comes to Pakistan he says i'll write a book on Pakistan. After staying for 6 months he says I think i'll write an article on Pakistan and after staying for a year he says I better try and understand the dynamics of the country first before doing any writing.
So Mr. Ali, from our very friendly neighbouring country Iran, I should first Thank you for such a thoruogh analysis of my country. But you dont have your facts straight at all. Pakistan has experienced much more development than Iran has in the recent years, its economic development matching that of India and China. And the border you talk about so ravaged by smugglers, is not just Pakistan's fault. People on your side have their share too. There is a deep rooted sectarianism in your country where sunni Muslims suffer the most, living below poverty line in some places.
By the way our nuclear Arsenals aren't under inspection by IAEA but Iran's are. I wonder why?
Every country has their share of problems. Where there are individuals, there is always a difference of opinion and where there is just dictatorship and religious fanaticism, like Iran, individuality fails to rise up to national levels.
Our country can boast of atleast some form of freedom of expression......but can your country do that?
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
Please give a serious thought to the situation currently existing in the country. Why did it come to this stage?
Whenever things are getting better for Pakistan and whenever it is on the road to achieving greater economic development and progress something happens which not only stops all this but takes the country back many many years. This has happened before and is happening now!
All those people blaming General Musharraf for the prevailing situations have to stop and think why did this happen?
What would have happened if the 11 member Judicial Panel had, let say, given the decision in favour of the President letting the Notification be issued and the President taking the oath as planned. He would have removed his uniform as promised and the elections would have been held in January 2008 as per the schedule already announced. The Country would have had a civilian setup and democracy would have prevailed.
The path of progress and development which was matching China and India would not only have continued but, the way things were going, would have reached the height which other developing countries could only dream of. The number of foreign investors queuing up to enter the Pakistan market would have increased many-a-fold.
In case the Supreme Court had given a decision against General Musharraf becoming a President then what would have happened?
General Musharraf would have left his appointment as President and COAS. The assemblies would have been dissolved between November and December 2007. An interim arrangement would have come up to hold the general elections. The war against terrorism and extremism would have been left directionless as no Army Chief would take the responsibility of being involved in any Military adventure or campaign without the legal coverage of the government. The confidence the foreign and domestic investors and entrepreneurs had in the present arrangements in the country would have been shattered. The Stock Exchange would have collapsed affecting each and every segment of our society. Knowing the ‘love and affection’ our political parties have for each other, they would have gone all-out attacking their opponents and creating a state of anarchy through out the country. As a united front would not have been there, the Talibization Forces would have had an open field to propagate and expand their ‘interpretation’ of Islam, initially to the areas adjoining Tribal Areas and then to other parts of the country. The part of the general public opposing them would have to come out in force, if they wanted to have a winning chance in countering them. Result: Civil War? The enemy of the State would not miss a golden opportunity like this! Number of suicide and terrorist attacks would have increased many-a-fold.
Why did the Judiciary create conditions forcing the government in chair to take such an extreme step of declaring an Emergency? Why did they not let President Musharraf take the country towards elections, the civilian rule and the democracy in its true sense?
Are they working for anti Pakistan forces which want to let down Pakistan but in the garb of providing justice and fair-play? Or do they have a personal vendetta against General Musharraf for which they are willing to put the Country at stake?
Why is Imran Khan, supported by certain other political parties, trying to create anarchy in the Country by forcing the students to leave their studies and to come out on the street? Does he not understand the implications of what he is trying to do? Who is he helping? The people of Pakistan or its enemies? The ‘cover’ he is using for motivating them to agitate is restoration of Constitution! He is also willing to put the integrity of Country at risk to hurt General Musharraf! Should the students play in his hand? Do we want him and his “friends” to create a situation which encourages people to write anti Pakistan articles such as (Cut and paste):
If the Judiciary had not got their personal egos involved and had thought of the welfare and betterment of the country all of this could have been avoided. For the first time the transaction to the civilian government would have taken place peacefully setting a very good precedence for all to follow. This in the long run would have strengthened the political institutions and Judiciary, bringing in stability, unprecedented progress and development to the country ensuring end to any future military take over.
We as good Pakistanis have to answer this question:
“Do we love our country more than we hate our opponent? Or do we hate our opponent more that we love out Country?”
This question means that if we love our country more than we hate our opponent then there would be a cut off point where we stop letting our opponent down because if we don’t, the country would suffer. On the other hand if we hate our opponent more than we love our country then we couldn’t care less what happens to Pakistan as long as we can hurt our opponent.
I sincerely hope all Pakistanis especially our Politicians and Judiciary can understand and answer this question positively proving that their love for the country is greater than any other issue they may have.
Writer is correct that the creation of Pakistan was a huge mistake, though his solution may be equally improbable. Indian leaders (Gandhi/Nehru/Patel) were against a religion based separation, but had to cave in to jinnah/muslim league. Britain stoked the partition demand in the garb of trying to be just to muslims, a united India was not in it's interest. What happened was a blunder where a nation was born just with the idea of muslim fundamentalism. Need one say more.
The world will have to bear the consequence as well as find solutions...
Pakistan's story of independence is full of sad episodes.It wasn't treated fairly, in the first place by the then British Rulers and many muslim majority areas were annexed to India. Then too many problems, like unsufficient funds to run the country, foreign intervention esp. from India which resulted in its further division, Army's role in politics and Western support for dictators, then nuclear race initiated by India, failed foreign policy and blind support for US which gave birth to radical fighters(mujahideen), and now corrupt leaders vs corrupt generals,,,,All these factors all responsible for the prevailing circumstances but one thing is sure that Pakistani People has shown strong stand in all these challenging circumstances and will stay united , no matter how hard are the problems and dissolution ?? ,,, NO QUESTION SIR !
Pakistan is not alone in its historical reason for its establishment. There were simply too many countries formed when the colonial era by western countries started to fade or retreat. The instability and false democracy in Pakistan to a large degree is not the Pakistanis' own doing. There are simply too many external factors, coupled with the blind ambition of the current dictator, who along the way made a mess of the country as we are seeing today. As a person who does not have high remarks on lawyers in our socity in the States, I would like to pay my highest respect to those lawyers in Pakistan now who are taking the lead to defend the country's democracy. Just for that, Pakistan desires to be an independent country because democracy and freedom should be the dream of any humanbeing in this world. We enjoy it in the States. We certainly support the same right for any freedom loving people in any country: in Pakistan, as well as in Iran.
Pakistan ranks as one of the countries with the lowest support for suicide bombings and terrorism, according to the most recent polls. Polling on the basis of Al Qaeda is not enough, since most people distrust the US to the extent that they think AQ is just a scapegoat for US ambitions to conquer the Muslim world. The important questions are about support for killing civilians and violence to achieve ones political goals, and in that Pakistan ranks lower than Iran. Heck a poll in the US showed more Americans willing to nuke Muslim countries (thereby killing millions of innocent civilians)than any Muslims willing to do the same.
The rest of you, including Ettefagh, can continue daydreaming about Pakistan breaking up. Pakistani identity is strong -from Pastun to Sindhi, and we ain't going anywhere, and there is nothing you can do about it other than rant.
The Indians with their silly "Akhand Bharat" ideas can keep day dreaming too.
Mr. Bhutto is now Aung San Suu Kyi in her own country! So, the only differences between Burmah and Pakistan are:
1. Nukes
2. Pakistan is not a NPT signatory....dangerous!
3. The Burmese generals have no claims to democracy or tricks about elections up their sleeve.
4. The Burmese always wear their uniforms and they do not think of themselves as civilians.
5. The burmese religious schools and monks are peaceful and simple people. The Pakistanis preach hate and promote terrorism.
Tahnk you for a good idea.
All posters above that want to divert attention to other countries and get ready to split other countries must first realise that the issue and the problem is Pakistan, not Azerbaijan, Iran, Kurds, etc. Why, you ask?
Iran, Kurds, Azerbaijan, Europe, etc. do not approve of hate-teaching and madrassas on their soil to "educate" or develop terrorists and then send them to New York to hijack planes and slam them into buildings and kill people at random, or blow up the underground in London. None of these countries have a 505% approval rating of Al Qaeda!
Dear Ali Ettefagh,
PAKISTAN was initially the brainchild of CHOUDHARY REHMAT ALI OF Punjab(undivided) who lived in London in 1920s. Jinnah was not in its favour, initially. REHMAT ALI is supposed to have done at the behest of some of his mischjevious BRITISH FRIENDS who wanted to scuttle the CONGRESS LED freedom movement in India. Rehmat Ali had coined this term with three MUSLIM DOMINATED states of pre-indepemdence i.e Punjab, Assam(not Afghania) and Kashmir. Jinnah had remarked," A drunkards's silly day-dreaming". It was inner politics of GANDHI's CONGRESS that pushed JINNAH into it and religion-based UP elections in 1937 converted him fully. It was the BRITISH idea of reserving constituencies for the MUSLIMS and the RIFT started--which consumed great NATIONALISTS like JINNAH and Dr sir IQBAL MOHAMMED--who was a famous URDU POET. HINDU-MUSLIM divide by BRITAIN was deliberate to ensure its HOLD over JEWEL IN THE CROWN.
If history is any evidence then BRITAIN of 1947 and its leaders of the times stand accused for creating the KASHMIR problem. One should know that the biggest LOSER of SECOND WORLD WAR was not GERMANY or JAPAN or even ITALY but BRITAIIN--which lost its empire as an aftermath of it. When HISTORY of AFRO-ASIAN Nations is rewritten, HITLER will emerge as their greatest BENEFACTOR for initiating the collapse of GREAT BRITISH EMPIRE --Where supposedly SUN NEVER SET prior to the WAR.
Pakistan is the HISTORICAL NECESSITY of TORRID TIMES of 1947. Let us not assume otherwise. By 1947, SOCIAL divide had been complete and BRITAIN had suceeded by religion- based elections to tear away the INDIAN society. But BRITAIN was looking for herself a future role in the sub continent by creating KASHMIR PROBLEM.this would have given him some say in the POST WAR WORLD. Mountbatten and BRITISH ARMY OFFICERS on both sides of INDO-PAK borders had played a key role in this. Mountbatten played up NEHRU, JINNAH and MAHARAJA HARISINGH--advising all three ---three different things to create a stalemate. And stalemate it remains even after 60 years.
Pakistan has been unfortunate since its inception because of self-motivated ambitions of their leaders of post Jinnah and Liaqat--who had banished in the early period when PAKISTAN was still in its cradle. Scheming BUREAUCRATS and MILITARY Generals collaborated to create a role for themselves. And they have consolidated their positions over the 60 years.
If you have to dissolve and dismantle anything in PAKISTAN then train your guns and thoughts on its military and its brain child ISI--who operates AL Queda and its TERROR MACHINE. PAK MILITARY IS THE MOTHER OF GLOBAL TERRORISM. Pakistan in itself is a nation of god fearing emotional people--who have been exploited by scheming GENERALS. I SUPPOSE THE SURVIVABILITY OF PAKISTAN IS A MUST FOR THE EXISTENCE OF INDIA. It is ironical but true that against the 'HATE INDIA PHILOSOPHY' OF PAKISTAN's ADMINISTRATION and MILITARY since its inception---India ought to now adopt 'LOVE PAKISTAN' TO ENSURE ITS OWN SECURITY AND SAFETY. Rajee Kushwaha
It is beyond doubt that US administration has supported Pakistan in every manner possible. US needed, and still needs, such a government in Islamabad that can counter the threats from the terrorist network in the country. US wants a man in seat in Pakistan who can act even going against the will of the locals. General Musharraf fits in the role.
this is all anti islamic propoganda n all nonsence.bloody christians are after muslims n how come the Pope is silent.look your own affairs and for GOD sake don,t interfere in others religion or u the christians will vanish from this world.all the humanity r against the bloody chirstians.
Ali E. lives in a provincial world. Pakistan has not been allowed to build its nation but everything-almost the pseudo-expert Ali has said applies to Iraq, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Israel,India, Scotland etc. As a matter of fact to reach his ideal borders we must immediately take Kurd territories from Iran, syria, Iraq and Turkey to create a logical nation. Has Mr. Ali the guts to apply his principles to Israel? Present human experience could reach the maturity that once existed in the recent US itself where people of diverse background could live without the petty divisions of humanity- to some extent we still live in the US under that doctrine. Others can learn. Borders should not be important for coexistence. Recent integration of Europe is a good improvement unlike Ali doctrine.As Qur'an said God created different nations so they can compete (sabaqat) with each other in doing good for all humanity. Nobel Prizes emphasize the principle. Mr. Ali needs to reach out to ultimate civility than to divide people and reorganize earth.(Dr. Zubairi)
Have Gun, Will Rule
Musharraf is bent upon ruling Pakistan because he has a gun in his hand and Bush & Chenye are backing him. The people of Pakistan be damned.
One the one hand US Administration tries to justify Iraqi occupation by saying it is bringing democracy to Iraq and on the other, it supports a military dictator who decimates democratic institutions, independent judiciary and rule of law.
The Pakistan Supreme Court was about to rule whether Musharraf could be a candidate for President for another term. According to the constitution Government employees are not allowed to contest elections within two years of retiring and Musharraf has not even retired yet. It was a forgone conclusion that Supreme Court will find Musharraf ineligible. Instead of stepping down quietly and handing over power to Senate Chairman, Musharraf has resorted to extreme and ultra constitutional steps.
How many people in the U.S. would stand for it if George Bush did this to the U.S. Supreme Court and its judges? No civilised society should stand for subversion of the highest courts, shredding of constitution and detention of judges, lawyers and politicians.
People of Pakistan have always complained that various U.S. Administrations develop friendships with their rulers & dictators and not with people of Pakistan. This has led to resentment and strong anti-American sentiment in the country. It is time that the ordinary citizens of United States impress upon their Administration to stand up against the rule of gun and express solidarity with people of Pakistan as they need and support to defeat a dictator.
Musharraf is not the only person in Pakistan who can help fight terror. The people of Pakistan are fed up with extremists and want to ensure that terrorism is brought to an end. This is better achieved through democratically elected leaders rather than through a military dictator.
The only way Musharraf will listen is if US Administartion insists that he immediately restore constitution, allow the Supreme Court to function with all its judges as before, withdraw emergency rule and release all lawyers, judges, politicians and other citizens.
Taking your anti-sunni frustrations out on Pakistan Mr. Ettefagh?
lets not forget that there was no one country in existence before the British colonized South Asia and created a colony called British India. What existed before then were sometimes great empires and civilizations, never over the entire region, and several princely states and kingdoms. If we accept your argument, then India should be split into hundreds of independent nations as well, since it too is comprised of states with different cultures, languages, religion and even races.
And what about the Kurds and Baluch in Iran? I take it that under your plan Iran would be divided up to give the Kurds their autonomous state and the Baluch merged with their brethren in Pakistan? And can we start dividing the Hispanic majority areas in the US into independent states after a few years too?
You have no idea of the ground realities in Pakistan. Pakistan is as much a nation as is India, since neither existed before 1947, and are both comprised of different ethnicities.
Mr. Ettefagh has done a knee-jerk and a hasty analysis, not supported by any historic fact or content. US, although a country of great hard working people also consists of 52 states. Try comparing North with the South and East with the West Coast of US and you will get an answer.
True that Pakistan consists of diverse cultures, but nearly all the people with little education can speak and communicate in Urdu. So the binding force is not only and only religion, but similarity of cultural origins. Same is true about India. In India, there is only one language that effectively binds 100 different kinds of people and that is English. If you talk to a Malayalam or a Tamil speaking Southern Indian person in Hindi, you will invariably get an answer in English. Look at Uttarakhand and the mountaneous regions of India and compare them with Bombay or New Delhi, they are all poles apart. The areas bordering China are similar to Chinese and do not talk or lead their lives like average North Indian people.
Having said all that, there is only one aspect that binds people together and that is good governance, justice and equality, something that Pakistan could never get, but the reasons as given by Mr. Ettefagh are totally untrue. Actually, the reasons have not much to do with religion, but have a lot to do with Feudal system and its total control of governance. Religion has just recently started to play a role in national politics of Pakistan and that too after Pakistan fought a US proxy war against Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
I would advise Mr. Ettefagh to read and understand the political dynamics of the region, before attempting to embark upon the adventure of churning out worthless articles like this one. I can understand the typical Iranian jealousy of the military might of Pakistan, in terms of nuclear technology and the backwardness of the Iranian technology and the political leadership but fail to understand how a news medium of prestige like Washington Post, publish articles based upon personal hatred, that have unsubstantiated and totally wrong assertions.
A country based on a flawed premise cannot survive. Hindus and Muslims of the subcontinent were not two nations. Consider that there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan today. The reason why India survives (it is also an artificial construct) is because it is secular. On the other hand had India been a Hindu nation - it would be in the same state as Pakistan is today.
Ridiculous article indeed.On same principle, almost all countries in the world should be divided into smaller groups starting with Iran where presians form only 50 percent of the total population.Try to be more realistic in your thoughts Mr, Ettefagh.
Buggs Bunny @November 7, 2007 8:18 AM: "Americans do not blow up bombs when a rival politician and they do not deport politicians from their own country, no matter the politics and differences between them. And Americans do not suspend the constitution or make a deal with Taliban. There is a slight difference between USA and Pak."
You are right. But, unlike Pakistan, we invade countries for no reason and cause hundreds of thousands of deaths. We also feel free and unrestricted to poke our noses into other countries' affairs, and then we run like heck when all hell breaks loose. That is what makes us particularly dangerous.
Buggs Bunny! Perhaps you forgot about the assassination of past U.S. presidents. Violence has always been part of U.S. history. However, events need to be put in their context.
Americans do not blow up bombs when a rival politician and they do not deport politicians from their own country, no matter the politics and differences between them.
And Americans do not suspend the constitution or make a deal with Taliban. There is a slight difference between USA and Pak.
How nice, we have some of the same crowd that brought the Iraq War now calling for its disolution. Now we have a new call for the breakup of Pakistan. On the logic expressed in this essay, one could have also argued that the United States was an artificial construction made up of two peoples in 1860. What the writer does not deal with, nor Senator Biden in his quixotic call for Iraq to be divided, is the minor detail- the majority in both countries might actually be proud of their country and rather than seeing it divided wish to see it emerge even more united and stronger. It is the political terms of unification and goverance that are at issue- not whether they should remain united.
It is hard, if not impossible, to deny that Pakistan is a failed state. Failed states are always dangerous. Time to go back to the drawing board. Pakistan is not like China, India, Russia, Persia or Egypt that are ancient settlements and civilisations and the blind "nationalism" of Pakistanis above seems to be short-sighted.
Those that are attacking the writer and his country should also take note that the Iranian National Youth football (soccer) team defeated Pakistan yesterday in Tehran....14 to zip!
Deconstruction makes its entrance in geopolitics. If generalized around the world, it will be a big program for the United Nations. Starting in Europe, I suppose?
Very interesting article. Yes Pakistan is a failed state because It is an artificial state created by England as a parting kick to India. but the solution is not breaking Pakistan into small tribal states. A reunited Indian subcontinent where all the different entities are respected and given full democratic rights is the solution. If the present multi ethnic and multi religious India can survive successfully the united states of India will also survive and prosper
Very interesting article. Yes Pakistan is a failed state because It is an artificial state created by England as a parting kick to India. but the solution is not breaking Pakistan into small tribal states. A reunited Indian subcontinent where all the different entities are respected and given full democratic rights is the solution. If the present multi ethnic and multi religious India can survive successfully the united states of India will also survive and prosper
Aamir Ali - There is no change in tune. Things are not as simplistic as you suggest. "Let the Indian army leave and Kashmiris will tear out the Indian flag", you stated simplistically. I might suggest that let the Indian army leave and the let the Pakthuns invade Kashmir again. I am sure Kashmiri women cannot wait. It has been 60 years and Pakthun men are salivating already. Only, my analysis is based on reality!
You are changing your tune now, earlier you were blaming everything in Kashmir on "Islamofascism" now you admit Kashmiris also support Pakistan alongwith Independence.
What else are you willing to admit? Wont be a stretch to also admit how many thousands of Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian Army.
Aamir Ali - you presume too much. I know families in Kashmir that are torn between Pakistan, India and independence. I am talking where one spouse prefers India and another Pakistan.
Abbas from Peshawar - How come the first thing that is pointed out to a Muhajir is either the color of skin or how sub-muslim they are? Why do you think there is a guy in London controlling Muhajirs in Karachi.
The Indian Army has been in Kashmir, with strong presence since 1947. Today there are 500,000 Indian troops in Occupied Kashmir, who have been killing Kashmiris for last 60 years. They are the only reason the Indian flag flies in Kashmir.
Withdraw the Indian Army from Kashmir and you will see how quickly the Kashmiris tear down the Indian flag.
And talk nonsense about "terrorism". The biggest killer in Kashmir is the Indian Army.
Did you know Musharraf is a Muhajir and that the political party that controls Karachi and lower Sindh is also a Muhajir party? Sounds like Muhajirs are doing fine in Pakistan.
You didnt know anything about Muhajir's just like you didnt know anything about the Kashmiris.
To the Afghan posters on this page: You Afghans willingly took money and guns from foreigners and destroyed your own country. Accept it.
Thousands of Kashmiris were killed by the Indian Army in the 1980's, why do you think the insurgency started in 1989 ?? Kashmiris hate India and wish to be rid of it.
5454:
Pakistani life is more valuable that your garbage opinion.
Abed - Muhajir - just see how you are being treated in Pakistan. You would have been slightly better off in India with its huge Hindu population. Just see that 10 people, all Hindus, jailed for the Gujrat riots. Any Muslims ever jailed for picking on minorities in your chosen land? No wonder it is self destructing!
There was a Persian civilization creating culture, engineering and military innovation, recognizing the rights of all humans and respect for religions, when the British lands were nothing more than barbaric inhabited lands, only to be tamed much later by the Romans.
Britian didn't create Persia. They did however play a significant role in diminishing it. Whereas Britian and the French created what today is the middle east and other asian countries.
To Abed, you say that Iran is also a "British carve out"?
What have you been smoking?
Once again to you, M. Saeed Chaudhary, and others who talk about the kurds and Baluchis in Iran and those provinces being carved out, I ask that you read your history.
In the middle east, the only 2 countries to have, for the most part, territorial integrity and continuous cultural and geographic presence over the last 2,500 years are Egypt and Persia.
To say something so idiotic as what M. Saeed Chaudhary says "Kurdistan was never a part of Iran" just really stinks up this joint.
Lets debate, but lets not be stupid either. The Kurds are of the same race as the persians, which is why Saddam slaughtered them the way he did. They are non-arabs. Based on your logic, Persians can lay historical claim to most of middle east, including pakistan and central asia. But obviously this argument wouldn't make much sense to reasonable people. At various times and after various declines of empires, Persia was in fact carved out and left to what it is now, basically its core. Similar to the Ottoman empire being scaled down to what is now modern turkey.
Mr. Ettefagh: Iran (apparently your home country) and Iraq are pretty much British carve outs as well. Let's just extend your hypothetical then. We'd certainly be free from asking Shia and Sunni to live together.
Pakistan's Muhajirs I would probably disagree with your characterization of their country as a "relic set up as a counterweight to India". They would probably mention that it was a shelter from Hindu discrimination against Indian Muslims.
Mr Ettefagh,
You seem to be a spokesman of Pakistan's rival country, India which never accepted Pakistan as an independent country and has always been attempting to dismember it. You also may be eyeing the province of Baluchistan which is close and has some similarities to Iran. Your argument that it was formed from four different provinces and thus should be dismembered is also quite flimsy as several countries in the world have quite dissimilar ethnic components in their formations. It were the people of those eprovinces who voted to be a part of the new country, called Pakistan. Moreover, Iran itself consists of differing ethnic groups. Does that mean it should also be dismembered into those ethnic groups just for that reason? Besides, Pakistan is a country that has not gobbled up any other country or region. Whereas Iran has done so during recent past. Kurdistan was never a part of Iran. Why shouldn't it give it up to the Kurds to form their own country? I would like to go on and on, but I would only say that let people decide where and how they want to live and not wizards like Ali whose ulterior motives will only exacerbate problems than solve them.
That's right. Blame the British for everything! *yawn*
As anyone with any knowledge of history is well aware, the fault was Jinnah's. Before Partition Nehru offered him the leadership of the undivided subcontinent. He refused, and the rest is history, the horrors of Partition in 1947, and the continued misery and hardship of millions of people.
I remember the "good life" in Kashmir before Muslim militants turned this multicultural community into a misery, either killing or scaring away the Buddhists and Hindus whose ancestors had long been part of its fabric. Remember that a millenium ago Kashmir was indeed a paradise, with great Buddhist teachers who attracted followers from far away. What have Muslim fanatics done? Destroyed Bamiyan, occupied the sacred land of Swat where the great teacher Padmasamhava was born, and swept away the tolerant way of life that these peoples had enjoyed for so long.
Kashmir? It's worth recalling its history. When Ghulab Singh and his brothers joined Kashmir with Jammu and Ladakh in the middle of the nineteenth century, life became better for the average Kashmiri. Don't believe me? Read Moorcroft's account of the time he spent in the Vale of Kashmir in the 1820s, while it was still under the thumb of the Sikhs based in Lahore. He saw Sikh soldiers supervising the rice harvesting, taking away nine-tenths of the grain and leaving only one-tenth for the villagers! And even this was an improvement over their previous overlords, the Pathan, whose favourite sport was to tie two Kashmiris together, throw them into Dal Lake, and watch them drown! The Pathan called the Kashmiris "Zul parast" ("lovers of slavery")! Under Ghulab Singh and his successors, Kashmir was, from the 1850s on, a good place to live for the average citizen.
I'm tired of Ali Ettefagh's ignorant formulaic diatribe. This sort of thing gets old really quickly. He may be clever at making money, but that, it seems, is the extent of his talents!
Zahid Raja, go get a life. Kashmiris were doing fine till the Islamofacists brought terrorism to the valley. You should have checked it out in 1984. It was serene and beautiful. And, then came the Islamofacists/terrorists from across the border!
All of you putting down the author of this brilliant article, stop shooting the messenger. Pakistan is on its way to self descruction, ready to implode or explode or whatever. Pakistan's founder's grandson lives and thrives in India. That should tell you something about the stink in Pakistan.
I think Mr.Ettefagh has a luxury to write whatever he wishes,however, it is very much apparent from his writting that he does't know much about Pakistan.His prejudice about Pakistan is very much evident from his comments regarding Pakistan's position on kashmir.I like to tell Mr. Ettefagh that the Kashmiris who are living under repression know a lot about opression than Mr. Ettefagh.I regret very much that such a reputable paper allows such a rubish to be printed from a hate monger.
Extremism in Afghanistan and Pakistan is the direct result of cold war as well as desire by the west to control the middle east oil which is likely to continue to haunt us. The U.S. and its western allies are not innocent in what is going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Unfortunately most Pakistani commentators on this forum have verbally attacked the author and the publisher (Dr. Ettefagh and Washingtonpost&Newsweek). The attackers are educated Pakistanis with Ph.Ds from Islamabad Universities, also known as Jihad Universities.
I wonder what is the difference between general Busharaf and the Pakistani crowd here?
Neither of them like freedom of speech and want the people to shut up and publish what the Pakis like.
This is a good way to share clear thoughts and I congratulate the writer on being bold enough to share his thoughts.
Although the article is written before the recent coup, it has predicted the nature of the Pakistani sham. Musharraf is not convincing enough and his recent speech after the coup that he is doing it for Pakistan shows the stranded state of mind in that country. He rounded up diplomats that he is doing this for Pakistan but said very little about how he will handle terrorists. Pakistan has arrested human rights activists, judges and lawyers that want rule of law, instead of rounding up terrorists, smugglers and shady operators. By itself, it is a telling story!
Mr. Ettefagh:
I know we all have freedom of speech, no matter how irresponsible. By the same token we torrelate all sorts of not so intelligent views. I did not realize Washington Post will give space to your views. This brings down the calibre of the Newspaper.
It is like going to a movie house and shouting "Fire". The person has a right to free speech but how irresponsible is that.
hi,
yes there are few facts in that article if not all. But havin said this, i think there is nother side of it aswell...i mean what diffrent in 2007 is that people have sort of consensus that , we as a nation need democracy, so that we have defeat the threats Pakistan have.
i think first time in history agenda is Pakistan for those who are fighting the army rule, the extremism. people here are not politically organize, they dont learn to participate in it. so its hard to fight, but as i said first time , there is a sense which need few years to deliver great results...just wait for few years....we are normal people and normal nation, yes not as mature, not as organize, not as united, but like any other nation, we have potential , infact more then few other nations,,,so bee careful, we will dissolve or emerge as great nation in few years time...before 2015.
Pull the plug on Pakistan, disarm it and make it subject heavy sanctions like Iraq and Saddam. Every thing must be shutdown: financial channels, flights, shipping and certainly an ams embargo.
Powerful logic that is not going to happen.The British division of former colonies seems to be the basis of many of the problems in todays society.Lest we forget it was the British who drew the lines for the middle east.Unfortunately power likes to accumulate not divide.So alas a wonderfully logical column but in the real world to no avail.
I think Pakistan is a Bastard Nation born out of lust of Jinnah. There is no third party intervention required to dissolve this unholy mess, Pakis will do themselves with their inner contradictions and external heat because of their love for Bin Laden and Taliban.
Pakistan is a saza to the world(Yeh to phirron ke garror ke saza hai).
now here is a fascinating theory? somehow out of the colonial shipwreck of britains failed expansionist ventures, we are supposed to create light brigade type charge into pakistan to remake central asia to the detriment of balance and peace, and to the bi-polaristic visions of iran and india. quite a concept, but who is to lead the charge?
WHAT ETTEFAG HAS WRITTEN IS NOT SCHOLARSHIP. THIS IS JUST WITCHCRAFT, PURE AND SIMPLE.I AM WONDERING HOW ONE ANSWERS WITCHCRAFT.
LISTEN MR.ETTEFAG PAKISTAN IS NOT SOME CONCOCTED REALITY THAT SICK MINDS LIKE YOU CAN WISH AWAY.WE CREATED PAKISTAN BECAUSE WE WANTED TO LIVE BY OUR OWN RULES.
I was shocked to see the biased,derogatotry comments of Dr.Ali about Pakistan in your newspaper.It is very surprising and shocking for me and every Pakistani that one of the leading newspaper of the world has published such criminal,very biased,derogatory and discriminatory comments about a sovereign state.
These comments are prejudice and show the hidden agenda and enemosity of dr Ali towards our motherland.Pakistani nation is giving alot of sacrifices since Afghan war.We have suffered alot since that war.Klashinkov and heroin are the gifts of that war.After 9/11 once again we are the frontline ally of the war aginst terrorism.Our armed forces and civilians have given and giving very great sacrifice.The sacrifices of our armed forces and civilians are much more than the combined losses and sacrifices of allied nations.
Dr.Ali is leaving in paradise of fools when he says that we are not one nation.No doubt we have different tribes but we are one nation.He has misperception about our oneness and unity.Who is he who decide the fate of our motherland.
We believe in Non violence but its not our weakness but strength.
We believe that non violence brings Peace and Love whereas violence brings hatred and destruction to the world.
Through this letter i request the leaders of USA,UK,France,China,Germany,Russian,European Union to please immediately convene an Imternational Peace conference. Bt war no force can eliminate the growing violence and hatred.
Its my firm belief that non-violence is the key which give guarantee for Peace and Love.Let us join hands to defeat violence and hatred with non-violence,peace and Love and make the world peaceful and beautiful place.
Media is one of the most effective tool in promoting Peace and Love.
Zubair Aslam Marwat
Ph.D Scholar Muhammad Ali Jinnah University, Islamabd,Pakistan
Email; peace.lover1@yahoo.com
One thing that is so common, and it is on full display here as well from the Pakistani and in general other muslims around the world is that they immediately want to shoot the messenger when they don't like the message.
In this particular case, Mr. Ettefagh wrote an opinion for an organization that he is a panelist on. This opinion was surely intended to be provocative and thought provoking, not just focussing on Pakistan, but for that matter all of Middle East (less Iran and Egypt).
Yet what you have here is ill-wishes and prayers, insults and perhaps a few subtle threats as well. You have insults hurled at his country of birth, when perhaps many of his countrymen do not share his viewpoints.
The funniest of all is that these insults and ill-wishes and prayers are preceded by "enshallah" or god-willing. I guess these people see themselves as devout muslims and very holy. They invoke god at every turn and pray to him to harm other human beings. Perhaps that is why the world views muslims as less than civilized and very radical.
My guess is that this behavior, in particular in Pakistan and Arab states are symptoms of insecurity and a sense of inferiority. One looks to India and feels small and the other looks to the rich history and culture of the persians and feels insignificant without their western puppetmasters.
Dr. Ali Ettefagh's Why Not Dissolve Pakistan, Too?
It is an interesting insight into the making of the country Pakistan. During the 50th Anniversary of the 'Independence Day' I remember Nawaz Sharif going round Jinnah's Mausoleum. Pity there was not a single other freedom fighter Pakistan could even remember let alone celebrate. Independence from whom? It is a misnomer. They could celebrate 14th August as an 'extortion day' certainly not as an Independence Day. When East Pakistan was dismembered there was agony for the shame of the Pakistani soldiers surrendering en masse but never felt about losing the Bangladeshis as such. I found the same shocking treatment when Nawaz Shariff was deported from his own country. None felt bad about it. But one thing I am positive about Pakistanis - No, they would not allow others to dissolve their country they would do it themseleves!
The author's post is less about dissolving Pakistan or redrawing the boundaries as everyone knows that it is neither possible nor desirable. It is designed to draw attention to the fact that Pakistan is in chaos and has been in chaos since it came into existence in 1947. The democratic impulses have not taken roots. The leadership of the country is game of musical chair to see which corrupt leaders would take the seat. There have been a series of coups. There does not seem to be anything that unifies the country. It has becoming a breeding ground for extremism. I would like to see people who care about Pakistan to confront this state of affairs.
So you are saying that the three wise men were from Kashmir? You really need to do some reading.
I'm not sure if the whole story or the three wise men is true or not, but the experts are pretty much in agreement that they were probably persian Magi of zoroasterian faith.
But lets take your word. The guy who says the events proved correctly that India was not a place for Muslims. This in a country that still has over 150M Muslims?
Also this from a guy whose name here implies a direct descent from the prophet Mohammad? Tell me, do you put Syed as your first name because you and your family claim descendency from the muslim prophet?
Also, believe it or not, Pakistan is not all Muslim. It does have a small minority of other faiths, which accordingly puts it neck-and-neck with India for the second and third largest muslim populous country.
To CHRIS THOMAS, really I'm not that "young" or "inexperienced". I would say quite the opposite.
Why I call you and your kind "idiots" is because of statements such as the last sentence in your last post: "May God and Allah bless the Pakistani people in this time of uncertainity."
Again, Idiots like you don't understand that God and Allah are one an the same. Allah, Khoda, Yahweh, Gott, Dieu, and God are all the same in different languages. They all refer to the God of Abraham.
Pakistan must be immediately taken under full and complete control of UNSC and full set of sanctions must be set up against it and be forced to join NPT and disarm from its nukes.
This article is brightly thought and clear written. Thank you Dr. Ettefagh
Sir
With all due respect to you it is not for a foreigner to decide wether we ought to dissolve or not, it is for the 160 million proud Pakistanis to decide their fate. Your comments will bring alot of hurt to a generation which vividly remembers the blood, toil and tears that went into its creation. No one can take our freedom from us and neither our NUKES!! You talk about deportation of Nawaz Sharif, I think your memory has failed to serve you in what happened to Shah Reza Pehalvi Last Ruler of Iran(and a citizen like Nawaz Sharif) and his family, last I remember they were not to be seen munching on Chelo Kebabs in Iran atleast.You owe an apology to each and every Pakistani for posting such an article. One last thing PAKISTAN ZINDABAD......as every Pakistani knows the meaning of this I think we are here to stay!!!!!!I think with looming attacks on I RAN I suggest U RAN!!!!
Sir
With all due respect to you it is not for a foreigner to decide wether we ought to dissolve or not, it is for the 160 million proud Pakistanis to decide their fate. Your comments will bring alot of hurt to a generation which vividly remembers the blood, toil and tears that went into its creation. No one can take our freedom from us and neither our NUKES!! You talk about deportation of Nawaz Sharif, I think your memory has failed to serve you in what happened to Shah Reza Pehalvi Last Ruler of Iran(and a citizen like Nawaz Sharif) and his family, last I remember they were not to be seen munching on Chelo Kebabs in Iran atleast.You owe an apology to each and every Pakistani for posting such an article. One last thing PAKISTAN ZINDABAD......as every Pakistani knows the meaning of this I think we are here to stay!!!!!!I think with looming attacks on I RAN I suggest U RAN!!!!
several of us have been advocating this perspective for some time. pakistan should cease to exist. it's actually a dead nation, whose corpse is kept alive by the yanks, in bizarre imitation of Lenin's corpse being kept embalmed in Moscow.
Pakistan is now a real challenge for UN and the world.
The so-called West is completely unprepared. It is time to get the UN in high gear, set up a plan of sanctions on Pakistan, disarm it, and set up an orderly system of breaking up the country in two or three sensible pieces. This will isolate the terrorists and terror friendly minds and will also isolate the problem to a smaller region.
It is also beneficial for Russia and China to help along to stop terrorism as neither want this wild fire of terror expand into Central Asia.
Robert Fox explains why the risk of civil war in Pakistan threatens worldwide repercussions:
In his broadcast announcing Pakistan's emergency, Pervez Musharraf quoted Abraham Lincoln's famous letter of March 1864 about the need to preserve nation and government before the constitution. "Was it possible to lose the Nation and yet preserve the Constitution?" Lincoln wrote.
Musharraf, and many other Pakistanis beside, now believe his country is on the cusp of civil war.
This is the terrible point that the messages of mild condemnation from the likes of Condoleezza Rice and David Miliband have failed to convey. The prospects for the 175m Pakistanis are dreadful. And there is a deadly message too for closely associated communities and nations like Britain.
For Musharraf it is a last desperate throw. Now he has to rely on the army, which is badly split between reformers, Islamists and active supporters of the Taliban.
With pro-Taliban and pro-al-Qaeda organisations now mushrooming in the frontier provinces of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, the troubles in Pakistan will help the Taliban now fighting the British and their Nato allies across southern Afghanistan. The Taliban are making huge gains outside the traditional Pashtun areas, and deep into Punjab. Furthermore Pakistan and Iran both face a major insurrection in Baluchistan.
For Britain, the fanning of violence and tension in Pakistan is sure to have an effect among extreme Islamist sympathisers in the UK itself - the leaders of both the July 7 and 21 London bomb plots appear to have received support and training from Pakistan.
Finally, the potential implosion of Pakistan throws into strange light the obsession of Dick Cheney and supporters like Elliott Cohen for bombing Iran. Iran may get a nuclear device inside ten years - possibly. Implosion in Pakistan could lead to a Taliban regime with a nuclear arsenal up and running now. For this Bush, Brown and Sarkozy seem totally unprepared.
when was review of national structures and redrawing of borders option available. OR is this a nightmare vision of the future?
Pakistan may have been fabricated on a map by the british, but it certainly is a nation today and not an assembly of waring tribes. In 2007 most of these tribes have evolved into complex communities trying to live lives as others do on the planet. Unlike the author claims there is a well known and documented common language in the country called "Urdu". Linguistically its on far more common grounds then say multilingual and bilingual countries like Belgium and Morocco. Also I believe Irans border with Iraq must have been far more troubling than that with Pakistan.
The problem with Pakistan is not about tribes being strange bedfellows, it is persistent military intervention ever since its existence.
The silver bullet that the author is offering fails to take into account the fact that people from the north west frontier province do not want to be part of afghanistan anymore as that country has been gutted out of its soul through the years through foreign intervention.
what exactly will happen to the nuclear program after the suggested disolution is also worth pondering! will it be a quick operation like Iraq? or Afhghanistan?
I think portraying Pakistan as a bunch of waring tribes (speaking english) and sitting on nuclear bombs is way off the reality and complexties of the country.
Good and clear article. Now is the time. Start with sanctions and disarm Pakistan from its nukes.
It worked with Saddam and he in fact gave up his nukes.
to EJAZ ASI
We re now in the 21st Century, not the Dark Ages. It appears that Pakistan IS STILL in the Dark Ages, given than 50% of its population think bin Laden & Co. did a good!!! thing on 9-11.
You decide whether this kind of people, 80+ million have a place in a modern world.
We agree fully with what Ali Ettefagh has written in the columns of your esteemed paper..The provinces forming part of Pakistan have ethenically nothing in common except religion which Pakistan has been using skilfully in teaching and promoting terrorism and fundamentalism. Because of these policies hundreds of innocent lives have been lost and people stand immensely perturbed. Around two lac Kashmiri Pandits have had to leave their ancestral homes and live as paupers in distant parts of India. Armed hordes are moving around in N.W.F. province and it now seems difficult to control them. It is indeed high time to think of suggestions made by Dr. Ali and to act thereon
I think a lot of Pakistanis are just being nationalistic and not confronting the problems in their own countries. Gen. Musharraf came to power in 1999 by overthrowing the government in a military coup. Just he was supposed to step down, he has declared a state of emergency, suspending judiciary, arresting hundreds of people and literally placing the country under a police state. I am surprised that not only there is no condemnation of this from the Pakistani people here but they are actually defending this state of affairs. Pakistan has a lot of serious problems and they need to be addressed before its too late. What I see here is simply a lot of jingoistic talk and utter reluctance to face up to the facts.
Sorry for pointing this minor error by one of the commenters:
Wrong: "India has 14 major languages ..."
Correct:
India has 22+-2 Major languages (recognized by govt), 415/425 living languages are listed in Ethanologue for India. And each of them consists of many dialects.
Sorry for pointing this minor error by one of the commenters:
Wrong: "India has 14 major languages ..."
Correct:
India has 21 Major languages (recognized by govt), 425 living languages are listed in Ethanologue for India. And each of them consists of many dialects.
I believe India should capitalize on the weakened Pakistan situation and break it up. We can witness another Bangladesh kind of situation here. I believe broken up Pakistan is good for India as the individual provinces will not be anti-India. I believe Pakistan and India can never have peace. Hence it is better to break up Pakistan.
I believe if you have smaller states then the radical Islamic idealogy will not propagate. The local cultures of the people will create more stable states rather than integrating them through Islam.
There is one more important issue about Pakistan totally missed in the article. When Pakistan was created some Indian Muslims from the state of Uttar Pradesh (UP) migrated to Pakistan. These people are called Mujahirs in Pakistan and they only speak Urdu language. They actually don't belong to the any of the provinces of Pakistan but these people control Pakistan today. They constitute 8% of Pakistani population. Even the idea of independence for Indian Muslims came from UP Muslims not from the five provinces of present day Pakistan.
Today Pakistan's national language is Urdu (spoken by 6% to 8% of the population at the time of independence) and these Mujahirs propagate Islamic nation agenda as it provides them control over the tribal provinces. Even Musharaff is a Mujahir he was born in UP, India. Adding to this Pakistan's main commercial capital Karachi is completely controlled by Muhajirs. This minority population from India are effectively controlling Pakistan today.
Indian state of UP has a tendency to produce both good and bad leaders. Most of the India's prime ministers are from UP. An example of a bad leader is Iran's Khomeni was also born in UP.
The Big Powers formed and dismembered nations. Of course, they were immune from this barbarism. How would the USA or the UK like it if the Congo decided that it should cut the USA into smaller segments with each one being a state. Europe and Africa consist of smaller nations so why isn't that OK for the USA?
The USA was the force that gave rise to ISrael. The Jews came from Europe, where they had lived for centuries, to claim their right to the Holy Land. This meant that the Arabs and Palestinians were dispossessed. IN other words, the West felt entitled to create Israel at the expense of others whose wishes were ignored. That was cruel.
Wherever and whenever new nations have been formed, Africa, South and Central America, Asia, Europe etc it was done in rooms in Paris. The West carved up the world. The selfish consequence has been festering turmoil.
The Big Powers formed and dismembered nations. Of course, they were immune from this barbarism. How would the USA or the UK like it if the Congo decided that it should cut the USA into smaller segments with each one being a state. Europe and Africa consist of smaller nations so why isn't that OK for the USA?
The USA was the force that gave rise to ISrael. The Jews came from Europe, where they had lived for centuries, to claim their right to the Holy Land. This meant that the Arabs and Palestinians were dispossessed. IN other words, the West felt entitled to create Israel at the expense of others whose wishes were ignored. That was cruel.
Wherever and whenever new nations have been formed, Africa, South and Central America, Asia, Europe etc it was done in rooms in Paris. The West carved up the world. The selfish consequence has been festering turmoil.
Pakistan is a failed state - no doubt about that. It has become the center of international jihadi terror network and Al-Qaeda has finally found a safe-haven in Pakistan. The only way to counter al-qaeda, taleban and other jihadi networks is to dissolve pakistan. With that the Pakistan army will dissolve and so will the international islamic terror networks.
The proclamation of Emergency (under Article 232) has not been issued by the President but by the COAS Mr.Musharraf this very act tantamounts to treason under Articel 6 of the Constitution . This is Sixth martial law since independence of Pakistan , a state under virtual hostage of Millitary , attained a uniqye reputation for criminal Millitary - Mullah nexus with impeccable record of Nuke peaddling and threatening global peace and stability . Pakistan is a byproduct of Great Game I to contain Russian Southern march and If one recollect Tariq Aziz words -- Pakistan is a condom State. Yes it all happened because Millitary which sold the soul of the nation to enrich themselves . Pakistan is an illusion and it will meltdown and regional powers and International powers should quarantine all it's nuclear assets , INCLUDING NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS .
I commend Dr.Ettefagh for suggesting a bold solution to the quagmire that is modern day Pakistan.
Even if the Military State masquerading as a Nation is not entirely dismembered, assigning to Afghanistan only the Pashtun dominant areas, which range from Chitral in the Northern Areas to Quetta [Balochistan] in the south will go a long way in ensuring, not only the survival of Pakistan but also a more prosperous Afghanistan.
I would echo same opinion as Saeed Mehr. Mr Ali Ettefagh should rather keep his tongue shut b/w the canines. He should perhaps be more worried about his native Tehran whose policies keep on ringing alarm bells in all world capitals!
Answer to your question at 8:03 a.m. -- every idiot thinks that he is King Solomon. There is a dispute about whose baby it really is. Chop the baby in two!
Except that idiots can't have the wisdom of King Solomon. When the real mother said "better give the baby to the other woman", King Solomon understood.
Not so, Mr. Ettefagh! There are many, many Pakistanis out there (and I hope that a post-crackdown, chastened Musharraf are among them, togeher with Benazir and Ashfaq Kiani and Maulana Fazlur Rahman as well as other well-reasoned opinion-leaders) who will be willing to make the necessary sacrifices to marginalise and neutralise extremists, to encourage the army to be a little more confined to the barracks and make room for dynamic entrepreneurs to engage in land-holding and business, to set the example for a vigorous anti-corruption drive (*starting with Asif ali Zardari!), to carry forward the education and other godd reforms that Musharraf has started. Maybe the Musharraf/Benazir coalition may still hold and maybe a wisened (but then REALLY wisened and less muscle-flexing) Musharraf can be given a year as President to collaborate with Beanazir and Kiani to crack down on extremsists, it being understood, after those 12 months, that Musharraf will bow out, the PM Benazir (if she hasmeanwhile proven her mettle) will have considerable executive powers, but with adequate checks-and-balances powers given to the judiciary and legislative-and-administrative branches of government.
The agenda is still doable, but the military-rule move has made it harder.
Completely agree with this author. Well said.
Paks brought us the taliban, nukes, and a sham. There is no democracy, no human rights and no future for that mess. carve it up!
dear mr ettefagh,
please worry about the impending doom about iran's nuclear fantasy.we had respect for reasonable Iranians and would but the problem is post global gave space to a man who has missed his daily dose of lithium.Psychosis mixed with mania is beyond home care.God bless Iran.
Another solution is to create a United States of India (U.S.I.), with a federal system of governance in line with the United States of America, of course, with minor adjustments to local character, social and political invoironment. Punjab and Sindh can then join the U.S.I. South Asia can be stabilised if India gets a fresh, healthy, new, progressive, strong and democratic constitution and eliminates corruption in all its forms.
India could become a very stabilising force in Asia and the world, provided it fights, controls and prevent religious extremism in all its manifistations and expressions, particularly Hindu nationalism and extremism, which has been and is the biggest enemy of India and has led to its disintegration and colonisation many times in the history of that nation. It has prevented India from becoming a strong nation state compared to China, the Indians have performed relatively very short.
Muslims of Indian subcontinent (half of it in today's Pakistan) should be very greatful to the Afghans who saved them from Hindu slavery many times in the past. Everytime Afghanistan invaded India (12 times), it was mostly to defend Muslim minorities in India against the Hindu extremists. It was also the AFGHANS that defeated the Soviet Russia, British Colonialists and slave owners, not to mentions the Arabs, the Turks and the Moguls, who could never subjugate or control Afghan territories.
The Hindus should be greatful to the Afghan people and great Kings, such as King Amanullah Khan, who supported the independence of India and the freedom of its people. Remember that Afghanistan is (1747) one of the first nation states in the world after the French Revolution, when the concept of nation states was introduced into the political dictionary of the world. It has played a leading role against colonisation, imperialism and communism, for which it has also payed and sacrificed very heavily. Afghanistan has never been colonised and defeated all foreign invaders and colonisers through the history of the region.
India's biggest, historical, strategic and political mistake in regards to Afghanistan was when it chose to keep quite about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the U.N.G.A. in 1979, ignoring the illegal occupation of its historical neighbor which had wholeheartedly supported it against the British colonisers. India later supported a totalitarian puppet communist murderous regime in Afghanistan and continues to side with the most criminal forces in Afghanistan, such as the Northern Alliance, who were raping Hindu and Sihk women in Kabul (1992--1996) and who were destroying Afghanistan from the ground and that India knew it, but prefered to shut its mouth, eyes and ears.
The Cold War balancing act of India is not pleasant or briliant, but to a great extent very destructive for Afghanistan and the subcontinent.
The mistakes of India was a big shock and disappointment for the majority Pashtuns of Afghanistan, to some extent for the West, who now felt allienated from India. This mistake of India provided the Paki Punjabi Terrorist Army with the biggest opportunity to defeat the nationalist and progressive forces among the Pashtuns, Balochs and other supressed and opressed nationalities in the colonial entity of Pakistan. As a result, the NWFP and Balochistan are virtually in the hands of Punjabi, Pashtun and a few Baloch extremists.
It radicalised the politics of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) and the bloodsucking generals of Paki Army, who are dreaming of a Punjabi Impire, are all the products of Indian mistakes, which unfortunately can not play the role of a wise Mother India.
Reintegration at all levels of the society is the key for peace in South Asia. It could be ethnic, religious, cultural, political, geographical, economic etc.
I wish the Pakistani commentators on this forum behave a bit constructive and not jumping to the gun, which has become the culutre of the Pakistanis. When the Gun is not enough, I'm sure, you will jump to your nukes, which freightens me very much.
Momand
The British creation of Pakistan resembles verbatim the "new Middle East" envisioned by the most ignorant, and retarded of American presidentes. Fortunately, his administration will come to an end, unfortunately...not soon enough. The best part is that the new president WILL NOT BE a Repo.
The history of Pakistan contained in this article does not go back far enough. To consider Pakistan a product of British imperialism doesn't describe the area well enough; it could be just as easily described as a set of tribes that go as far back as Mongol and Islamic imperialism. The British attempt to create a nation-state from seventy or eighty tribal enclaves did not take into account the need for a semi-totalitarian central authority that is needed to begin a transition to any form of democratic justice in a region. Many of these tribal enclaves work with the Taliban types because the clans themselves do not want a government they individually can’t control through some from of totalitarian minority (the traditional form of power). What might be more in the interest of the Pakistani tribes IS a form of totalitarian authority that exists for at least two generations that does not permit the tribal aggression accentuated by primitive religious ideas to endanger the ‘normal’ citizens of Pakistan.
It is true that Pakistan's location next to Afghanistan is problematic. The fact that the border between these countries cuts through historically unified cultural areas doesn't help. And the fact that the areas thus cut-though are inhabited by relatively wild and well-armed mountain tribes is also a problem.
The diversity of traditions and languages in Pakistan, however, is not a characteristic of Pakistan alone. It is mirrored by the same diversity within the many states which constitute India itself.
There was, indeed, a strong indigenous desire and political movement among the religious-nationalist intellectual Muslims of British India to establish a Muslim state.
Jinnah, Iqbal and Maududi (born between 1876 and 1903) were the great leaders of this movement.
And please bear in mind that Gandhi was killed by a (misguided) Muslim nationalist.
So it was not just an arbitrary or ill-considered afterthought for Britain to establish a separate Muslim state.
One could imagine that even within a unified greater India, the majority Muslim states, which today constitute Pakistan, would have presented this unified greater India with the same problems.
I really agree with this writer. Well researched piece and facts. Most of the British fantasies have failed in any case around the world. Something should be done with this terror sate called Pakistan before it blows the world.
I find Dr. Ettefagh's short version of Pakistan's origin to be highly revised. Any reading of late Raj history indicates that the British were absolutely opposed to the concept of partitioning India (the notion of providing any part of India any bit of independence was controversial). Dr. Ettefagh is certainly correct that having a majority population was a major factor in allocating East Bengal to Pakistan once partition was inevitable, but an attempt to provide some amount of economic parity between India and Pakistan was another. And the notion that Pakistan was established as a pro-Western counter to India's pro-Soviet leanings is pure fiction- the desire and concept of Pakistan predates cold war politics by two decades.
The birth of Pakistan was far from British fantasy- it was a British nightmare born of oppressive colonialism and a desire of Muslims for self-rule. Pakistan has a myriad of problems, and to revise its history places those problems in a false context and hampers efforts to fix them.
In this moment, the paradigm democratic of the west go been contest in the many countries. The instituitions europeans was carried for many countries by imperialists and colonialists reasons. I think that very good if all countries of the worl become nations where the peace and democracy were the maxim law. But its do they like. This is fact and Condolize Rice and USA have not legitimate for change this reality.
Interesting piece, but some of the history is missing, e.g., Ali Jinnah and the All India Muslim League.
Although many ills in the world today are laid at the feet of former European Colonialists—justifiably—they could not have acted thusly without the aid of the many self-serving indigenous people (PLO, are you listening?).
Pakistan is an independent nation-state today for many reasons; chief among them though is the hardheaded sponsorship of such a state by Ali Jinnah and the All India Muslim League (much to Gandhi’s consternation).
And, finally, could we all please stop with “should not have been in the first place” of many policy apologists and deal with the “what we’ve got now” reality of the various international imbroglios around the world. I am not suggesting we ignore history, rather I am suggesting we incorporate it to new solutions and new pathways that are radically different from the status quo and fit better with the tapistry of people and customs that exist today.
Let’s end the constant abuse of historical context (aka hysterical context) in order to prop up newly burnished forms of the old. A shift in our thinking might actually aide in progress rather than the constant one step forward, three steps backward that exist in the multitude of global hotspots that exist in our post Cold War era.
Pakistan is proven to be a rip-off. Time to bust it up and create a more transparent system. If that means dissolution, there is nothing wrong with that. Are Czechs and Slovaks better off than 20 years ago? Are the Yugoslavs in a better shape for the most part?
The fact is Pakistan is dangerous. It has become the hub of terrorists that hijack planes and run it into buildings. The $10 billion in U.S. aid over the last 7 years has been wasted. They have no true intentions to have democracy and now have martial law. Time for sanctions, restrictions, disarming of nukes and setting up a UN protectorate and break up! Game over boys!!
Totally agree with the writer. There are many similar cases though. In fact, the colonial powers in the ME established several Arab countries. Jordan and Iraq and Saudi Arabia were established by Britain, Syria and Lebanon by France.
Oh my, this essay spawned an interesting debate, and made me recollect a lot of history. After some contemplation, I decided to agree with the commentators who ask "What about Iran?". Which in term, reminds me of an old saying: If you live in a house made of glass, do not throw with rocks....
Sorry Ettefagh, let's form a comission to carve up Iran as well.
Dissolve hatred mongers all over the world;no matter who and how stronger they are.Pakistan is again run over by military.Tell USA to outrighly oppose it.Or,think of dissolving all those countries which create disturbances in other countries;overtly and covertly.
THE ARTICLE IS A CHEAP SHOT AND WISHFUL THINKING OF DR ALI ETTEFAGH. HE BETTER BE ADVISED TO WRITE ON INVESTMENT SUBJECT IN WHICH AREA HE IS SUPPOSED TO THRIVE.
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
Why all of Pakistani posters above continue to deflect answering the question and jump on Iran, USA, the author, religion, etc.?
Why not consider alternative ways. If the entire "nation" of Pakistan was really in harmony and unity, why have all these bombings, coups, deportation of previous politicians and Al Qaeda and Madrasa hate-teaching centres?
It is matter of great shame that this Article is from a muslim if that would have been from some Indian then v would have said that It is prejuidice but shame
shame
shame
shame
shame for hurting feelings of all Pakistan
why not dissolve India where people are fighting for Independence against tyrant Indian regime
why not dissolve Afghanistan which is home for terrorists
Shame on you
"Pakistani Military & civil bureaucrats" who are denying power to the people, are the grand-sons of those muslims,who were boot-polishers, sepoy, peon and clerks of British Raj in India. They became Mohajers in Pakistan and are ruling the land.
The greed of power has created racism among different ethnic groups. Mohajers hate Panjabis and Sindhis, Panjabis hate Balochs and Pashtun hate Mohajirs and etc. etc.
Pakistan is a fail State and it is divided among
different "ethnic groups". It`s broken on moral basis. It needs a kick to break the country ......before the confiscation of her WMD and destroy her nuclear facilities as it poses a great threat to the people of Pakistan, South Asian Countries and the whole world.
some factors are true about pakistan , and some are false any way what else we are pakistani and we only need God blessing from all muslim to upgrade us in good way. God bless us always and get rid from those elements who damaging our religion, culture and our country. ameen
"Pakistani Military & civil bureaucrats" who are denying power to the people, are the grand-sons of those muslims,who were boot-polishers, sepoy, peon and clerks of British Raj in India. They became Mohajers in Pakistan and are ruling the land.
The greed of power has created racism among different ethnic groups. Mohajers hate Panjabis and Sindhis, Panjabis hate Balochs and Pashtun hate Mohajirs and etc. etc.
Pakistan is a fail State and it is divided among
different "ethnic groups". It`s broken on moral basis. It needs a kick to break the country ......before the confiscation of her WMD and destroy her nuclear facilities as it poses a great threat to the people of Pakistan, South Asian Countries and the whole world.
Very interesting article, very interesting concept that deserves praise. You should watch "Kabul Express" to understand what is going on in the region. Maybe it will all make sense then.
I am sure after reading the responses from Pakistani’s now this should open your eyes that Pakistani’s are a proud nation regardless of ethnicity.
READER IN EUROPE: there are conflicts in Europe isn’t it time for ya’ll give basq’s etc independence. WHY in perfect democratic Europe you got conflict such as Basq’s??
Pakistan got stable economy. US had given only military aid to Pakistan. With all our differences we the PAKISTANI’S are ONE PROUD NATION.
I just got out of Pakistan. It is hell on earth since yesterday's de facto coup. Very strict controls on communication with outside, most TV and radio stations are shut, foreigners under strict control.
Sorry President Bush, but you just got stabbed in the back by some one that fooled you as a friend.
I don't know why Pakistan has become a night mare for all the evil countries of the world.People like the one who wrote this article are making their livelihood by writing against Pakistan.World should be grateful to Pkistan for ending the cold war otherwisw their would have been more blood shed around the world.Pakistani people and soldiers along with their Afghan brothers fought and sacrificed their lives to end the bloody era of cold war.Now world needs Pakistan again.You can not tackle 1 country Pakistan then how can you deal with 4 Pakistans if provinces are independent.We are 1 nation with 1 language URDU and rich cultural and social diversities.There are more than 40 languages in Pakistan.You should think to save your ass first before writing a word agianst anybody else.Its Pakistan who has supported you in nuclear field and now Iran is showing eyes to America.You believe it or not whole world knows about it and you got no right to write such articles when your own people dying of hunger torture and sanctions.
Hey Mr. Rationalist first learn to READ and WRITE proper English. Then learn some manners and then return in about 10 years when you have lost your zits and gained some maturity!!!!!
Please do not use personal attacks and offensive comments in a civilized forum like this or any other. Take it easy. It is just a debate however dearly you feel about it. It's not like your the President of Pakistan about to be able to do somehting about it.
Leave everything aside. The basis on which the country was founded and the tribal and other divisions and the many other factors that are a feature of not only this but also of all other nations. Nations will either evolve over time into being something better or dissolve and destroy themselves.
If for now, a group of Pakistanis irrespective of their tribal and racial affiliations can come togther here on this forum (at least one from each province) and convince the readers that Pakistan can and will be, we should see some hope for the future.
And I do apologize for the multiple postings of my previous comment.
Dr. Ali Ettefagh has written very well about Pakistan. Redrawing the boundaries would aggravate the problem rather than solving it.. No body would have taken cognizance of developments bit for the 9/11 and the nuclear weapons they possess.
Since 9-11, the United States has given more than $10 billion to Pakistan to fight terrorists. We want a complete report on what has happened to our money, where is the promised democracy in Pakistan, where is bin Laden and why is it that PAkistan is not letting NATO forces to operate from its territory?
No doubt what the author says is true and can be agreed on about Pakistian. But his solutuon to dissolve the Pakistani State into independent provinces is no solution at all. It will only mean that many times as problems as there are now faced by this one single failed state. I think that there is still hope for the Pakistanis to get their act together. Look on the positive side of things. When they want to they can all come together and develop something as advanced as nuclear technology. Now all they need to do is to apply that thinking to social engineering, eradication of poverty and other benefical programs rather than be on an un-ending warpath with one another.
It amazes me that how much vitriolic Verbiage and verbigeration of same message of pure hatred is being salvosed to Dr.Ettefagh. That it self proves that He is right and talking on the premise of truth. He struck a serious blow to the heart of Pakistanis Prides. Though their pride systems based on false identity and false nation hood - because they have no real National identity. Pakistan is an aberration of History, and has no solid foundation. In this perspective this nation is bound to fall and to disintegrate.
There are also a concerted serious effort to Drag India in to their own created hell hole? But such attempts have failed miserably.
So called Pakistanis, should know that, The Baluchis, and Sindhi's are not keen at all to join Your Band Wagon of so called Pakistan- Nation Hood. Rather they will prefer to create their own Identity of Nation- Hoods, I men- they wants their own home lands -Baluchistan and Sindhistan. They are heading [ Marching] on that direction, and You fellas can not stop it.
The question of India? India doesn't want the existence of Terrorist and Fundamentalist Islamic nation called-**Pakistan**, at her door step. Better She prefers that this abominable monster should die as quickly as possible.
You may think that Your borrowed Nuke -missiles and A-Bomb will deter your enemy to harm you or attack you? But in civil war situation as is now exists in your country will not be affected by your **Fear Weapons**. If that is so , then why Soviet was broken down even She had more Nuke war Heads than USA??
I tell you what India will do- Hindus will support Baluchis and Sindhi's with all logistic and hard ware supports, so that these fellows will succeed. By chance if you contemplate of striking preemptivly on India? With your will- gotten N-Devices? then make sure that India has Antimissile defence system, installed already and with which She will safe gourd Hes self, we call it self reliance.
Then what role Uncle Sam will play? In my View He had enough in dealing with you Terrorist Entity, and this time SAM will not save you from the gutter -where you are stuck now.
The Question- what Uncle Sam's Position in this respect today?? Sam doesn't feel comfortable with You fellas, and you failed delver what he wanted and you fellas again back bitten Him, betrayed Him. So you guys have lost all credibility. A bigger game is brewing up in the Horizon, I mean rise of China and her influence on SEA, which Sam feels threat, and that is why America going to make Nuke Dill with India, In that respect you Pakistani fellas have lost credibility platform, and you can't bargain any more.
This article is about Pakistan, not about personal attacks on the author or Iran.
The writer is correct to say that the original plan/design did not work and there is no democracy or a continuing political process in Pakistan. If the interests of several tribal groups create a conflict rather harmony, then it is time to separate them and let them have their own system and as the last sentence indicates, a more clear political agenda will be the result.
Mr. Ali Ettefagh
You appear to be tolerant about the purchases made by Iran from Dr A Q Khan, May be it for some toy making. You got Clergy in power and we are resisting it.
What a standard of democracy you have. Candidate has to pass through religious cults test.
Why don't you see inside your country.
It is an old stinking curry of Ralph Peters which Mr Ali is trying to put on boil again. Some time ago, Ralph Peters in persuasion of Greater Middle East Plan of United States, suggested to redraw the borders of Middle and south East Asia in the name of uniting the ‘Blood Brothers’; i.e. when British left Middle East, very deceitfully they divided Kurd lands into four parts and handed over to Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran. He suggested that Kurds be united and new country be carved. He suggested the same ----in regards to areas of Greater Baluchistan and Afghanistan.
Although in the wake of US Global War on Terror, Pakistan being a front state is passing through some very testing times and is in untenable situation; but by Grace of Allah, peoples of Pakistan are steadfast, strong and united to face such challenges. Mr Ali should not worry much about Pakistan rather he should spend his energies to put his own house…Iran in order.
I shall try to be brief. Pakistan is imploding because of the negative mindset and instilling hatred into heads and hearts - for the “other”. Hatred is bad in all shades. There is a lesson to learn from this. Fascist R.S.S would do to India what the Mullah did to Pakistan. HATE SPEECH must invite capital punishment. Perpetrators of MOB VIOLENCE (Riots / Genocide / Holocaust) must be hanged. A clear message has to be sent. You cant have Law and Hatred together. Babu Bajrangi and Narendra Modi are criminals of Humanity. One cant be selective on this. A society can live without religion, but not without justice.
Hatred / Hate Speech / Mob Violence / Genocide / Holaust AND the concept of Law / Civilised society cannot go hand in hand. The history of R.S.S acts since 1925.. its role in the riots are fully documented and needs to be exposed. For how long can one close his / her eyes to this Factory of Hatred ?
Mr Robert: Before rattling on please note that a million people scarfised their lives back in '47 to leave hindu dominated areas of India for Pakistan. Even now in this so called secular India, thousands of Muslims, and Sikhs have lost their lives at the hand of hindu mobs.
By Mr Ettefagh logic most most authoritarian countries should be disbanded because they haven't been able to become democracies. And who should actually redraw these boundaries ??
Giving these remote tribal areas Independence would allow the extremist to overcome some of them. That is asking for more trouble. Pakistan needs to modernize economically and democratize. That is the only solution.
A factual error in the article is that there is no common language. There is more in common between the provinces of Pakistan than the provinces of India. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan. Most Pakistanis speak Urdu in addition to their local language. English is the official language of India.
According to the article Opium is produced in Afganistan and some how it is Pakistan's fault that Opium is transited through it... Bye the way, it is said that a lot of Opium is transited through Iran as well.
I am highly surprised that you would have such a critical viewpoint of Pakistan when in the global scheme of things Pakistan has played a positive role whereas other countries have dropped the ball. Yes, Pakistan suffers from many problems, however do not blame the people of Pakistan for the mistakes of one individual who has, well, we all know what he's done. Pay attention, fortune favors the bold and there will be permanent changes in the land of the pure soon.
I find Mr. Ettefagh's article quite amusing, he appears to have a superficial knowledge of pakistan. 14 insurgencies are going on in india and 160 districts according to its prime minister are out of control. There is serious trouble in my other countries. That does not mean the country should be broken up. It is the Usa which has caused division and destruction in iraq and begangstan and is poised to create trouble o iran. Much of the troubled conditions in pakistan are due to american intervention and coercive tactics. Pakistan intrinsically is a stout country which can look after its self he only the americans do not support a dictatorial regime. Inayatullah
Columnist, Pakistan
Mr Ettefagh needs to do homework before writing such rubbish. First the tribal system in Pakistan only exist in border areas of Afghanistan and Iran, and that accounts to less than 1% of Pakistan's land area. Secondly, Pakistan was never a British "Fantasy" in fact the British did everything possible to prevent its creation, case in point the unresolved issue of Kashmir. More than a million people scarified their lives to achieve the dream of this independent Muslim state.
In fact it is Iran and it’s Mullahs that are the real source of instability in the region. They have actively supported extremist shia groups in Pakistan since the '70s creating instability and hatred. Even now they're openly funding the Taliban and other extremist and nationalist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan not to mention Iraq!
I am highly surprised that you would have such a critical viewpoint of Pakistan when in the global scheme of things Pakistan has played a positive role whearas other countries have dropped the ball. Yes, Pakistan suffers from many problems, however do not blame the people of Pakistan for the mistakes of one individual who has well, we all know what he's done. Pay attention, fortune favors the bold and there will be permanent changes in the land of the pure soon.
As a Pakistani I am extremely surprised and disappointed that the Washington post actually published such a load of trash.
"Dissolve Pakistan" ?!?!, there are a million problems with my country, as their are with many other countries. Most of the problems have actually been created due to a one-sided alliance with the US, which has used Pakistan for short term gains, leaving our country in the state it is now. but dissolving a country isn't really a solution. Mr. Ettefagh seems have a over simplified view of our history and overly simplified solution.
I little thought before you go on rambling about other peoples HOMELAND would be appreciated. An editor might be a good idea too!
General Musharraf on, 12th October 1999, has usurped power in a coup against the civil government. The aforementioned action was extra-constitutional, which was though not appreciated but reluctantly accepted by people of Pakistan for time being with this hope that Gen. Musharraf would hold free and fair election and reinstate democracy within the time frame of 3 years as given by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Following his predecessors military rulers, he extended his rule by holding infamous referendum and proclaiming himself as the elected president. In elections 2002, his political stooges and sycophants could not get a simple majority to form a government even after rigging the elections, so he threatened and offered political inducements to the elected parliamentarians of other political parties in order to form the government of his choice. These ugly politics worked well and he eventually succeeded in forming a tamed government. The motive of all these extra-constitutional actions and politically maneuvering were to serve his vested interests and to keep the highest political post of President and military post of chief of the army staff, simultaneously. In 2002, he did not call the first session of the national assemble till the time he was assured that the notorious 17th amendment would be passed by the parliament. In order to achieve his self-serving mission, he played an ugly game not only with political alliance MMA but also with the whole nation by making a false pledge that he would shed his uniform on 31 December, 2004, which he had not fulfilled till today. Once again on the 3rd of November 2007, when he felt that power might go away from him, he has made a second coup and imposed Martial Law without any genuine grounds under the shadow of emergency. To keep the highest political office of president, he once again with the help of army generals derailed the process of democracy, which should not be despised but must be condemned, strongly.
This time, he committed a despicable crime by attacking the supremacy, integrity and independence of judiciary, which they were showing first time in the history of Pakistan. He tried to undermine their independence and integrity by accusing them that they were taking decisions in the favor of terrorist. Like 9th March 2007, once again he openly attacked on the independence of judiciary by changing the Chief Justice and removing senior judges who refused to accept his new Provision Constitutional Order. In his speech, he charged them for interfering in the matters of the executives and encouraging terrorist, which is completely absurd accusation.
The fact is that his poor leadership, ugly political tactics and poor policies have increased number of bomb blasts, enhanced frustration and alienation among people, and weaken integration of the federation - not the judicial decisions. Undoubtedly, he attacked on the judiciary because, in the hindsight, he got scared that the Supreme Court of Pakistan might declare recent presidential elections null and void and not allow him to contest presidential election for the next two years. Hence, he imposed emergency or martial law before the announcement of the decision of the Supreme Court. It is a fact that if the Supreme Court had barred him from contesting presidential election, it would have been accordance with the country’s constitution in which it is clearly stated that public servants during service cannot participate in politics. It is evident from his midnight speech on 4th November, 2004 that he is perturbed on the Supreme Court decisions that have gone or will go against him and his corrupt acolytes, therefore, he has now initiated media trial against the judiciary.
The recent proclamation of Martial Law and suspension of 1973 constitution shows that he is power hungry and can go up to any extent to keep it. He does not have any respect for any institution that takes a stand against his rule. Musharraf is a self proclaimed hero who has never won any war - neither as a solider nor as a president. As a solider he miserably failed in Kargil and as a political leader he failed in integrating the nation.
For the sake of country existence, provincial integration, democracy, independence of the judiciary and other institutions, we must strongly demand that Gen. Musharraf must step down as President and Chief of the Army Staff forthwith and immediately announce interim government that holds free and fair elections within three months.
Please sign this petition to support that we all want genuine (not controlled) democracy in Pakistan and disallow any army role in the national politics.
After reading Mr.Ettefagh's post, it seems he is way off the mark and his senses. as a pakistani who has lived and prospered in this country all my life of 60 years. I can say that maybe we had our share of misfortunes but certainly there is no dearth of national spirit in the masses. it is the military that has played the part of the mercenary of the US and destroyed this proud nation of 160 million souls.
About Iran,the less said the better. remember when Zahedi was leading the coup to reinstall a puppet monarch at the instigation of a world power. Read CIA.Iranian morale and its currency was penny a million.
General Musharraf on, 12th October 1999, has usurped power in a coup against the civil government. The aforementioned action was extra-constitutional, which was though not appreciated but reluctantly accepted by people of Pakistan for time being with this hope that Gen. Musharraf would hold free and fair election and reinstate democracy within the time frame of 3 years as given by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Following his predecessors military rulers, he extended his rule by holding infamous referendum and proclaiming himself as the elected president. In elections 2002, his political stooges and sycophants could not get a simple majority to form a government even after rigging the elections, so he threatened and offered political inducements to the elected parliamentarians of other political parties in order to form the government of his choice. These ugly politics worked well and he eventually succeeded in forming a tamed government. The motive of all these extra-constitutional actions and politically maneuvering were to serve his vested interests and to keep the highest political post of President and military post of chief of the army staff, simultaneously. In 2002, he did not call the first session of the national assemble till the time he was assured that the notorious 17th amendment would be passed by the parliament. In order to achieve his self-serving mission, he played an ugly game not only with political alliance MMA but also with the whole nation by making a false pledge that he would shed his uniform on 31 December, 2004, which he had not fulfilled till today. Once again on the 3rd of November 2007, when he felt that power might go away from him, he has made a second coup and imposed Martial Law without any genuine grounds under the shadow of emergency. To keep the highest political office of president, he once again with the help of army generals derailed the process of democracy, which should not be despised but must be condemned, strongly.
This time, he committed a despicable crime by attacking the supremacy, integrity and independence of judiciary, which they were showing first time in the history of Pakistan. He tried to undermine their independence and integrity by accusing them that they were taking decisions in the favor of terrorist. Like 9th March 2007, once again he openly attacked on the independence of judiciary by changing the Chief Justice and removing senior judges who refused to accept his new Provision Constitutional Order. In his speech, he charged them for interfering in the matters of the executives and encouraging terrorist, which is completely absurd accusation.
The fact is that his poor leadership, ugly political tactics and poor policies have increased number of bomb blasts, enhanced frustration and alienation among people, and weaken integration of the federation - not the judicial decisions. Undoubtedly, he attacked on the judiciary because, in the hindsight, he got scared that the Supreme Court of Pakistan might declare recent presidential elections null and void and not allow him to contest presidential election for the next two years. Hence, he imposed emergency or martial law before the announcement of the decision of the Supreme Court. It is a fact that if the Supreme Court had barred him from contesting presidential election, it would have been accordance with the country’s constitution in which it is clearly stated that public servants during service cannot participate in politics. It is evident from his midnight speech on 4th November, 2004 that he is perturbed on the Supreme Court decisions that have gone or will go against him and his corrupt acolytes, therefore, he has now initiated media trial against the judiciary.
The recent proclamation of Martial Law and suspension of 1973 constitution shows that he is power hungry and can go up to any extent to keep it. He does not have any respect for any institution that takes a stand against his rule. Musharraf is a self proclaimed hero who has never won any war - neither as a solider nor as a president. As a solider he miserably failed in Kargil and as a political leader he failed in integrating the nation.
For the sake of country existence, provincial integration, democracy, independence of the judiciary and other institutions, we must strongly demand that Gen. Musharraf must step down as President and Chief of the Army Staff forthwith and immediately announce interim government that holds free and fair elections within three months.
Please sign this petition to support that we all want genuine (not controlled) democracy in Pakistan and disallow any army role in the national politics.
Being a Pakistani, myself sick of our idiotic and selfish generals and politicians, I would like to see and read comments from other Iranis. We, Pakistanis, feel something grow bigger in our throats when we hear someone from the west calling Iran a threat to world's peace. I invite other Irani's to express their views on the comments (article of Mr. Ettefagh). I know Mr. Ettefagh's hatred for Pakistan is due to its Sunni Muslim majority; but rest assured Pakistani Shias are as patriotic as their sunni brothers.
What a load of crap!!! This person either does not know a dime about Pakistan or is doing some other's bidding by ignoring all positives about Pakistan. He is conveniently forgetting about the 16o million people living in Pakistan and their will (which is not at all represented by what he has mentioned in his absurd article). I can understand that he wants to divert the attention from the overall perspective of Iran and its foiled attempts to become a nuclear nation and he wants to depict Pakistan as some entity like Afghanistan or Iraq but I am a citizen of Pakistan since birth and have never experienced one thing mentioned in this article. The remaining four provinces do not act as tribes and there is a common language that we Pakistani speak and it is known as URDU!!! (if Mr Ali Ettefagh doesnt already know). He should better talk about Iranians and their sponsorship of world wide terrorism. Yes Afghanistan is the biggest producer of opium so he should talk about US and its false war on terror which has increased the production by hundred folds. Why talk about the transit way (if there is one) and not talk about the basic problem of production. No production, no transit way. In the end I would like to suggest Mr Ali should come to Pakistan and look at the ground realities on his own rather than making claims from faraway places. The most preposterous thing to say is to divide the country into tribes as if Pakistan is a piece of pie on a kitchen shelf. Pakistan is a country with a thriving economy and wealth and not a US colony or an American spy state like Iran. It would be run by the will of Pakistani people!!!!
I think the author has failed to grasp the true meaning behind the identity and creation of Pakistan. I think this article is a futile attempt to view world events with a lens of the past and not the future. While 60 years might not appear as a long period in terms of the global history, a true examination of Pakistan would show how far this nation has come in the last 60 years. To run an economy of 160 million people with the amount of resources that Pakistan has is nothing short of a testament to the ability of the people to strive and thrive in today's world and a willingness to live together and cherish one another's cultures.
I have been long frustrated by the political instability of my neighbor.
I know there is great diversity across their provinces, India has greater diversity. I do not believe cultural diversity or different languages can be attributed to political failure.
Nothing will help till basic civil liberties in Pakistan aren’t restored. If it takes a democracy to achieve it, so be it. In the current state, breaking down geographic boundaries will only add to the mayhem.
Ali; I am guessing you are not iranian but you are persian!! Your father is a persian but your mother is swedish. Ali you are from persia; which is next to denmark. Ali unfortunately iran will be in pieces before pakistan everwill. Iran and araps have the same curse!! the oil, and the west wants to get them for free. Ali is not an indian agent he is a poor personality and lost soul.
There was a good article titled "Blood Borders" in the June 2006 issue of the Armed Forces Journal, which proposed a similar solution to Pakistan and other such frankenstates of the region. It sent many Pakistanis into panic. Here's a version: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
Pakistan and its states have been in existence for 60 years.
The fact is Pakistan exists.
One must reconcile with this fact and move forward giving way to the youthful leaders of tomorrow whose faculties are not fettered with feelings ill and old.
We must be wise neither to entertain, propagate nor to pursue such nineteen century notions of divide and conquer in a century where countries shed their nationalism to form communities for economic and social prosperity
In your post you state that "... a massive joint strike by the US and India (and possibly Israel) is in order to take out the N-weapons which Pakistan holds."
This is crazy and dangerous talk. Implications of any such foolishness are immense.
There is wisdom in your words. But, the older I get the less I believe in the goodness of man and change. Too many large players have their fingers in too many pies.
i am wondering if mr ettefagh made a grave typographical error. I think instead of the word 'Pakistan' he meant and should've had 'Iran' throughout his article !!
Pakistan's Biggest folly is that we never made a system for Governance except ''Rhetorics''No one followed any rule other then Loot & Plunder, Rule & Perpetuate it,From Facts to Fiction the likes of Religious Zealots. We never gave to the Nation what was enshrined to us by the Founders that though Islam shall be our Religion But our Governance shall be Secular.
The Agencies were deputed to play foul on one another and they do till the day,Judges became a commodity where Justice was never dispenced, Army became Rulers under the garb of saviours and our Politicians grabbed moni like wild dogs.
I still belive Pakistan will Survive But that responsibility lies on our Politicians to all sit in one Boat and sail the people to safety thru acceptance of Provincial Autonomy, Follow the Rules of Fair Play within thier Parties and when in Govt or in Shadow.I am sure they will have to adopt these rules of the Game to bring Respectability,Sustainability,System.Thank you.
Who are you to suggest your dirty idea of dissolving Pakistan?
Why not dissolve IRAN ? Iran has seen more militancy then Pakistan, The fall of Shah Iran, in whose time IRAN was prospering and then the so called Islamic revolution - by Ayat Ullah Khumeni Hindi.
Pakistan, has never posed a threat to any country, India walked into our borders and got kicked out in 1965, we surrendered in 1971 (East Pakistan) Just when were about to Capture Kargil, America Intervened and yet another time we pulled our troops back.
Iran is a threat to the world then, as Iran's president clearly said 'that he wants to wipe off ISRAEL from the map' I am not a supporter of ISRAEL but you are trying to give a suggestion or had no other thing to write , thus you came up with this idea of dissolving Pakistan !!!!!
We don't grow opium, Afghani's does, Pakistan fought for the Afghans in Soviet war and they were smuggling in our country, you call urself a muslim state ? and yet suggesting to dissolve Pakistan.
The organisation you work for (United Nations) is as useless and baseless as Your article !
What have the UNO Done in Africa ? Jonathon Dimblebee of Britain did a documentary in 2004 and he said he can't believe that the sanitary system was totally unacceptable as it was flowing where the poor african people were sleeping. Where do all that money goes ? UNO is good for nothing, I think UNO should be re-structured.
One More thing, Britishers are best colonizers not Americans.
Who gave permission to this joker Ali Ettefagh to write this rubbish? I find it too amusing to even give a slightest response to this piece of nonsense.
But would not hesitate to say that Iran has to be divided into at least six independent states and of course Iranian Balouchistan should be part of Pakistan.
Where to start? First Pakistan should never have been created. However, here it is. The best thing that can happen is for the West, i.e the US, to stay the out. Sixty years of meddling from the cold war to the war on terror have only made a bad situation worse. Can the Pakistanis get their act together. Of course they can, but many of the players with their fingers in Pakistan need to get their act together first. I guess that means no foreseeable change in the near future.
Dr. Ali your views are uglier than the politics in your native Iran. I think You do not have to worry about Pakistan, it will exist just fine, however that country of your called Iran is actually the most dangerous country of the world.
Iran is a leader in global terrorism, its leadership is corrupt beyond belief, religious mullah's in Iran are the most reppresive in muslim world. After Shah woman were raped and killed on the name of Islam, many of you took refuge in Paksitan. In Education to trade you have benifit from Pak. have no doubt Pak has pressure to use its land to attack your nation, none of your niegbors like Iran.
Iranians in US are disliked and just to let you know every Iranian in USA is in debt of Pakistan every time you want to go to motherland you got Embassy of Pakistan's so called Special interest section of Iran to get visa. I am going to be honest to you, after reeading your comments I think Pak should not help your terrorist country and help the world to get rid of menace. Turkey can take Tabriz and Azerbaijan belongs to Azerbaijan.
The problem with rhetorical questions is that they tend to hoist one with one's own petard, as it were. Why not dissolve Pakistan, indeed? And why stop there? How about India? Good Lord, what a hodgepodge! And Iran - didn't I see some kind of thinktank groupthink exercise on "the many Irans"? And weren't the British involved there too? Let there be many Irans!
Before we start on universal dissolution, treating countries as some kind of monstrous sugar cubes that we can somehow dunk in an universal solvent, we ought to ask, that is, if we have any vestige of intellectual responsibility in our inner stuffings, where does this process stop? And how about the US? Shouldn't that country also be dissolved? But wait, wasn't that tried before?
THIS IS THE HIGHT OF IRONY. AN IRANIAN TALKING ABOUT A FAILED STATE AND DEMOCRACY. MAY BE HE SHOULD BE LECTURING HIS PEOPLE. WITH MILLIONS OF BARRELS OF OIL, ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS A 45% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND A RULE OF MULLAHS.
This is a disgusting article written by an Israeli/Indian agent. Pakistan was achieved through hugh sacrifices by the Muslims of South Asia. Enemies of Islam want to dissolve it. They will not suceed.
I am sure you are probably one of those young inexperienced "kids" who has not had an opportunity to become worldly, seasoned or experienced. You have probably never met someone from another country or had professional discussions with anyone outside of your "little world". You strike me as someone with a very shallow ego who feels the need to strike out at others by calling them "idiots". Before you type any other comments attacking the persons who are commenting on the articles take a deep breath and grow up before you embarrass yourself further.
To those of you that have provided these thought provoking comments I thank you.
May God and Allah bless the Pakistani people in this time of uncertainity.
Excellent piece! Finally, a common sense discussion of these sham nation-states. While we are at it, how about a free Kurdistand that includes part of Turkey?
Pakistan is not a failed state, you should have a courage to blame and criticize selfish british system whose shortsightedness gave birth to premature country. Pakistan should learn that religion should not be mixed with politics and people of Pakistan should realize that Indian are their biggest wellwishers.
Ali Ettefagh doesn't seem to know the facts! He even does not know the right names of Pakistan provinces! If Pakistan needs to be 'dissolved' into 4 pieces then I think terroist Iran need to go 1st. Mr. Ettefah idea will further destablize the world and innoncent blood will shed.
This is one of the very few times I have seen a Muslim (the author of this article) make sense.
But are not you afraid of Paki Muslims declaring a death fatwa against you like they did against the Somalian (Hirsi) author (PBUH)?
Who gave this idiot a Ph.D. That university should ask him to return the diploma. Or if he has any commonsense, he should return all his diplomas and write on his forehead "you are looking at a complete insane person."
If Pakistan is split then i do not think that it will bode will for Iran as per your state Balochistan will be a country and we all know very well that Balochistan-o-Sistan province in Iran would very much like to join this new state. And based on your analysis that would make perfect sense because they have more in common with Balochis in Balochistan than people living in Tehran.
This is the single most stupid article that I have ever read.
Yo dude Robert or Laloo Indophile,
a) One of the three wise men was from Kashmir and not Persia. You r knowledge of Christians is suspect.
b) If you are going to quote Churchill to prove your ridiculous point about Eastern Bloc in 1947 then you must concede he also had prescient powers towards a robust prowestern democratic Pakistan. ... Only Mr Churchill asks you to hold your longotee(Sarang) until his full prophecy about Pakistan comes true.
It may take sometime for you to understand it.
c) Pakistan has 165 million muslim, India may have 150 or more. What does that prove El Roberto?
On the other hand I was talking about the truism of lives of my family members and real people I know who have benefitted from Pakistan and enjoyed the fruits of freedom and education and availed opportunities to better our lives because we live in Pakistan and NOT India. I have compared myself with others like me from Delhi and find myself in a much better position. So this BOB! is no falsity. And the "events" I quote are the massacres of Muslims in Bombay, Mumbai, Baroda and Mosques being razed elswhere which to us real people in Pakistan are an affirmation of our choice to be in Pakistan rather than India. If given the choice we non-Sunni non-Punjabis would pick Pakistan over India every time.
I do not expect you to understand. I mean who are you to tell us what we should choose? And I will propagate this as much as I desire.
In the present circumstances, Pakistan needs a new charter, constitution. If Musharraf is able to do this then Churchill will be proven right again vis-a-vis "half-naked faqir".
It is obvious the man made creation of country, state and nation state is still not understood by many who do not know that they do not know.
Start from the source - the evolution of humans.
Families into communities and communities forming countries.
It is too bad not too many many people in the Middle East read Darwin, Marx and Adam Smith.
The human named Dr. Ali is obviously a member of the Planetary Federation from Earth. Naturally the members of the Klingon spiecies will see the reality differently.
After reading a few of the responses given here about the article above I have to admit that there are a lot of interesting people out there. First of all the political and economic world is changing. A change on the balance of economic power is happening but that was inevitable, regardless of USA foreing policy, the world must continue its course. I firmly believe that economics in the end dictate the political outcomes, I prefer not to give any examples because there are always exceptions to the rules and people will be quick to point them out. However, the USA was extremely successful in using the IMF and the World Bank to promote its political ideals, either right or wrong, the end result was exporting economic and political models to other countries, and those countries greedily took the monetary reward that came with the American idealism and attempted to implement ideas that had not root within them. The end of the European imperalism gave birth to the US and the USSR, then the cold war left the USA as the only superpower. Now is time for a cycle to start again, now the USA will decline slowly because it is convinient to the rest of the world that it happens slowly. As the US loses political clout in the world other countries will step up to fill the gap. There are too many factors to predict how and when the chinese will begin to involve militarily on the international arena, but they will have to gain more military muscle to be able to do that. In my opinion all countries will rather use soft-power, however, you need to have a bigger military power in case that soft-power fails. From here on the world will be more divided economically and politically speaking, and I don't see any major changes from the current trends of politics and economics.
The border between Afghanistan and British India assumed by Pakistan is a questionable hold over from another British machination, the Durand Line. Afghanistan has failed to recognize the Durand Line's continued international border status.
I note that Pashtunistan fails to have been a conceptual unit. Like the Kurds, the Pashtuns continue to take themselves seriously in spite of the continued efforts by "greater" powers to dismiss their nation state self concept.
The UN Charter prohibits the changing of national borders through aggression.
It is not clear whether the author has the Checzoslovakian or Balkan or Biden model for Iraq in mind and what process acceptable for the rest of time to implement it does the author have in mind...or is he just ventilating out of justifiable frustration.
Wonderful bias-free analysis & perspective from the country´s beginnings to current day. Would love to know if Dr. Ettefagh has written any books on this topic, and if so, what are the titles. Thank you.
It is now 1-30 am now- where I live and I came to know that Mush had declared Emergency. He doesn't want relinquish his power?
In this turmoil situation, where are my Baluch- Brethren? Why you are so silent? The time has come for you to take action against Mush who is now in quite vulnerable and weak. Your fighting for your freedom- I do respect. Your attempted strive for emancipation always be remembered. God bless good hearted Baluchis, and I pray to our almighty for their success. Again freedom is the essence of Life.
I was keen to read what Pakistanis had to say was the way forward. Unfortunately the forum has now been hijacked by the "shoot the messenger" crowd. I too don't agree with most of what Dr. Ali has to say. That said, Pakistan is definitely a failed state, with large parts out of the control of the central governments, particularly the NWFP area.
The solution is to inject a lot of money into the education system from primary education onwards and hope in 20 years a civil society with respect for the rule of law will be established. As things stand now, Pakistan has nothing other than a few nuclear bombs to its credit and is introducing instability to all the neighbouring countries. The generals have learnt how to squeeze the western governments for money and the generals in turn need to keep the fundamentalist bogey alive and time to time hand over a few to the west to keep the checks coming. The Pakistani politicians too have not served Pakistan well and have only drained the national coffers.
Hopefully the next democratic government will pull the plug and stop tax payer funds from being squandared. Let the Pakistanis sort out their own problems. We should not be judging them nor interfering in their internal affairs.
Iran is shite majority and Pakistan is a sunni majority and the twain shall never meet.
Pakistan has Tribal issue, like many other countries in the world. I don't think it is as serious as Dr. Ettefagh described. I think he is very much off the mark. I belief Pakistan suffering from little bit of ego, and duel personality. It has yet to define, itself as a Islamic country or a democratic one. People of Pakistan thinks themselves as a defender of Islam, but cannot define Pakistan as a truly Islamic state. Because a country based on Islamic law just does not work. On the other hand, Pakistan cannot define herself as a true democratic state, because of the lack of courage. Before 1971, it could not operate as a democratic state, because they were not willing to share power with Bangladeshis. This is because Pakistanies think Bangladeshis are not as good of a Muslim( at least that's what people in Pakistan think), of course generally speaking.
What Pakistan need to do, be either a Islamic state or a democratic one. If it adopts Islamic law, then be courageous enough to talk about the pros and cons of the Islamic laws, and should have willingness to modify or change it, if needed. The country just should not follow the sharia law blindly. If the country does not have the courage to analyze and change sharia law, then it should go for democratic system in full force.
Writer seems to live in a fantasy world and does not even have facts correct. Fist of all there has never been a UN peace keeping force in kashmir and Pakistan always had a coherent policy on kashmir it has always demanded the implementation of un resolution demanding write of self determination of kashmiris.
Pakistan has some troubles with regards to its regional harmony than which country don't have these problem, if we take example of india, it is also marred by troubles in its different provinces based on cast, cultural and even religious grounds so based this writers suggestions india should also be redemarcated. The fact of matter is Pakistan is surrounded by unstable and hostile neighbours like india, iran and Afghanistan and there problems spillover in Pakistan too and we do have problems and have done mistakes but are trying to improve. As for opium trade, writer has perhaps forgotten that Afghanistan has borders with iran and other central asian states too and majority of opium finds its way there.
Sir, not to worry. Soon, the extremists will soon have their hands on Pakistan's nuclear missiles. They, of course, will launch missiles on India and Israel, and thereafter they will be destroyed by the response. Situation solved. This situation will be repeated in all muslim countries that have their dirty little hands on nuclear missiles.
All Comments (491)
Handle u r right that india gt 14 major langs lol..bt thats y jinnah said "india is nt a country or a nation" it involves many types of ppl bt wat the thing lacks is that there is no same NATION!there is nothing same.bt in pakistan urdu is major lang which is spoken everywhere and all r equal n our religion is same, lang is same etc other things r same too...i would like 2 tell u if u honestly think of pakistan's problems u wont need any1 to explain ull realise everything!b honest realise its problems PPL b aware of its problems dun think its nt ur country bt think that wats the best thing u can do for it! .thats the truth pakistan is greatest n see this quote"Every Great person gt alot of problems bt that person solves it thats y he is called GREAT"
July 29, 2008 11:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 29, 2008 11:29
Salam and hi,
y u want pakistan to b destroyed?wat has pakistan done to u??N when the terrorism is held whole world blame pakistan y?this is offensive.
AND u non pakistanis no one can destroy pakistan its nt afghanistan or iraq that its easy to destroy it... Its a NECLUER COUNTRY so keep ur fingers out of this. ALLAH is with us.. One more thing that some pakistanis dont have faith in Allah PLZZZZ have faith ... pakistan will never destroy n the ppl of pakistan r brave enough .
So never ever try to harm pakistan!!AND i want government of pakistan to b good cuz..the government dont relises any thing about pakistanis like the amounts of oil r increasing day by day..the poor r being more poor.REALIZE!!the broken heart of poor pakistanis..they dont gt anything to eat.V R PAKISTANIS N V CAN DEAL WITH EVERY CHICK... Allah is pakistan ki halat achi kr de or aik din pakistan bohot powerful aur bohat rich hojae.(AMEEN)
Pakistan zindabad Long Live pakistan!!!:}
July 29, 2008 11:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on July 29, 2008 11:17
This article of dr Ettifagh i read of dissoluting Pakistan as is an artifical state boundaries with multiple issues.This would be annoying most Pakistanis like me which country doesn't have problem like India in our neighbourhood facing ethanical issues Iran on western border has political stratageic controversies and all around world. Thou we are in our bad hard run crisis but we maintain our FEDERATION despite conspiracies and west intervention because we had leaders like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Benazir and millions of patriotic Pakistani who will give their lives but not surrunder our great nation to the millitants. And we will make it times are changing civil, political and judicial awareness is smoothly and gradually coming and heralding a social revolution.
April 11, 2008 1:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 11, 2008 01:05
It is really very nice to know that soo many people out here care soo much for the ordinary citizens of Pakistan that they are sitting right there in the protection of their little dumb houses, enjoying the luxury of the internet and plotting the new world order around it.
Talk sense. Talk humanity. Talk about building instead of tearing Pakistan apart and gluing it to India.
The only reason why Pakistan stands where it stands today is because of the US interference in our personal problems and constant supply of aid and instruction to encourage training of militants that they needed in their 'cause of Afghanistan' - We stood there with the US in their war against terror sending our troops to Afghanistan along with their army, letting the US use our land and bases to launch attacks in their pseudo hunt of bin Ladin. What do we get in return? The title of terrorists?
Leave us alone. We can take care of ourselves.
March 8, 2008 8:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on March 8, 2008 20:24
Absolutely reasonable., and sensible. The 2-Nation Theory was fraudulent, and based on a poor reading of history. Lets accept that first. Agreed, there were problems among Hindus and Muslims (the 2 major communities of undivided india), but partition was NOT the solution. Exlusivity led to alienation and Andulasian Syndrome. That was about the past.
Now what ? Pakistan will go down in a very bloody way (unlike the Soviet union). At Pakistan's birth, millions died. At Pakistan's demise millions will die again (in civil war).
It will be very very bloody. Then it will disintegrate into 4 peices - Sindhudesh, Balochistan, and land-locked states of Pakhtoon`khwaa and Punjabistan. This is the natural state of their being. Eventually, to realise economies of scale, one by one., these states would join the Indian Union.
Bangladesh too would realise their folly and join India.
United India (indo-pak-bangla) is the destiny of the subcontinent. 1947, 1971, are mere footnotes. They will be washed away. India will be a super-power when united... based on respect for its 2 major communities Hindu and Muslim.
Both will thrive and both will progress. (This is what Maulana Azad said... but no one listened to him. Even Gandhi ji.. ditched Maulana Azad and Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan [Frontier Gandhi], and accepted Pakistan, after calling it a sin first !). Anyways... this is 2008... so lets be forward looking.
Cheers for a United India. Only this will root out terrorists and criminals of humanity (both hindu and muslim). These safforn and green fascists deserve to be marginalised. United India would do JUST that.
February 13, 2008 9:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 13, 2008 09:52
Dr Ali you are absolutly wrong and unaware of Pakistan
The people of all the provences are having very good relations and they are not against each other ,only its maliter and cevil buracices are creating problems for the commen people but now awarness is being created and in very near future Pakistan will be emerge a strong and stable country.No country in world consistr of a single nation or ethnicity rather consist of multy ethnic multilangual and multi religen entities.Look at U.S.A it has a very diversified population havind different colors ,religeons,races and languages.
Iran too is not a single nation it has Baloch,kurd and arab but it is a nation.
February 6, 2008 4:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 6, 2008 04:39
I am very sorry to say but this is a really pathetic approach . Pakistan is an independent Nuclear state which have a common religion culture and traditon the people of Pakistan are one and united when somebody attacks its soverigntity which we had already proven in the War of 1965.I agree that there are riots voilence and coups in this very short history of 60 years but then again doesnt that happen in India , indians had Muslim,Hindu riots several times they had Sikh Hindu riots which were all very voilent leaving thousands dead.So why dont you dissolve india as well. whatever happens in a country is the countries own responsiblity nobody has the right to interfere .
The author mentioned about Opium sumgling let me correct him if you analyse in the Taliban era the opium sumgling was almost stopped and they destroyed many harvest of Millions of Dollar, but as Amercians doesnt want that to happen and from the time Amercian based Govt have been enforce in afghanistan opium sumgling has increased so who is too blame now?
Pakistan is a soverign state and its not iraq or afghanistan that Western power can destroy it so easily. So please stop thinking of such fantasies which will never happen and thing something more productive.
February 4, 2008 4:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on February 4, 2008 04:47
You are right. Too bad they didn't listen to you from the beginning.
January 2, 2008 10:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on January 2, 2008 10:00
Pakistan is only a breeding ground for terrorists and a nuisnace for India and the whole world. Its people will never come to terms with the fact that their country, such as it is, was created out of hatred towards India.
We do not want such a dangerous country in our neighbourhood.If the world wants peace it has to look squarely and solve the Pakistan problem. It is not going to go away.
Dissolving Pakistan does not mean dissolving its citizens. It means helping them build an alternate arrangement to live in peace.
Pakistanis could have made a different future, but the time is lost. Dissolving Pakistan is not just an idea it is the ONLY option.
December 28, 2007 5:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 28, 2007 05:27
Ettefagh you need not worry, after we defeat PorkAssTan Iran's next.
December 13, 2007 6:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 13, 2007 06:50
Hi,
I agree you are right about diverse thoughts and traditions people have in Pakistan. But isn't it better to find similarities and unite people instead of dividing them. A process of 'new boundries' will end in hundreds of innocent people death.
I know people are different but very few want a new country. Multiple relations with America, Alqaeda or 'extremists!' can be used to communicate and resolve the problems....not just increase.
December 5, 2007 4:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 5, 2007 16:41
...then also dissolve Iran too because if Pakistan is dissolved there should be Greater Baluchistan. Then some of the parts of Iran belong to Kurds, the tribe of Sultan Salahudiin Ayubi, who have no land.Then why to forget Azaris they also need a piece of land to make Azaristan. Then what Iran is left with....?
Mr. Ettifagh, please don't throw stones on others while sitting in a glass-room.
December 5, 2007 7:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 5, 2007 07:07
Good idea, should it be done before or after the sham elections, actually selection of the same old faces, in January?
December 3, 2007 4:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on December 3, 2007 04:09
great idea. do it quickly.
November 26, 2007 11:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 26, 2007 11:25
Mr. Keep eye on your own state..... dont keep poking nose in others.... its a bad habit.... I hope u'd remember this in future
November 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 23, 2007 11:57
Do it, and do it quickly. Before the Egypt-Saudi-Pakistan axis of evil sunnis try to wipe out the very young roots of democracy in the region.
Pakistan is indeed a failed project while the bigger piece of the carve-up, India, has a bright future ahead. Cannot help but think that it is due to the hateful version of Islam that is practiced in Pakistan.
November 23, 2007 6:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 23, 2007 06:59
Pakistan is not your father's property doc. Stop posting such weak topics.
November 22, 2007 3:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 22, 2007 03:32
Dr. how much are you getting paid for posting such articles? why don't you post one article about Iran's history?
November 22, 2007 3:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 22, 2007 03:29
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Asian Film Reviews
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November 21, 2007 3:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 21, 2007 15:29
Very clear thinking and a good idea.
Pakistan is about to implode and we must get ahead of the curve and not watch the Tsunami from a distance. And it is going to be a big problem either way. Can we afford a mass export of terrorists from Pakistan?
November 21, 2007 3:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 21, 2007 03:29
Wow!! excellent piece, great analysis and hope the US think tanks are taking note of your recommendations apart from hoping to build Pakistan to counter India & China. Pakistan has its history of training terrorists,grooming Taliban, Alqaeda, harbouring criminals, Lawless land and Army/ISI/Dictators are rulers of the nation. Pakistan is the origin of world Terror planning and training. One cannot be an expert terrorist until they get trained by Pakistani Army. This is known to rest of the world except Americans, after 911 Musharaf was doing lip service for the $10Billions and protecting his Taliban thugs, Alqeda,ISI,QA khan and modernizing Army to fight with India for Kargil war mis-adventure. Mush realized the double sword Taliban only after sucide bomb attempts on his life for playing double game with them. Before 911, Army thugs were training Alqaeda & Taliban and ISI was busy planning terror activities against non-Islamic countries except China, as China was providing technology and building their Military might with US Aid Money.
All the terror network is still intact in Pakistan, Osama is still enjoying freedom in this country & so are the Madrasas which spit out venom against non-islamists.
What you sow is what you get, this is exactly true in their case.
November 20, 2007 6:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 20, 2007 18:52
Before going in the details i think we should really consider the ground facts and realities.
Dear Mr Ettifgah,
You are just another ordinary human being, your opinion is just another opinion.
if you are from iran then you should better know the besides the smuggling you are ignoring the ground fact that THE ATOM you have on basis of which you show eyes to AMERICA, given to you from WHOM? can u exactly state WHOM?
NO because nobody is here to take the responsibility of showing GOOD side,
But you know what
PAKISTAN is forever, and will be. besides the 60 bad yrs we still have much more than some other countries.
INSHALLAH ALLAH is with us HE'll let pakistan through all this and you will be the witness.
SO KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED....
LONG LIVE PAKISTAN
November 19, 2007 5:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 17:50
If Pakistan is divided....
Resources will also be divide among different provinces. Which includes Nuclear arsenals, that will also be divided among the provinces.
Anyway guess.... from which province that extremists would have taken over, where the first nuclear arsenal will go to.....
Just a thought.....
Anyway practically Unity and stability (economic and social etc.) is very important in Pakistan, not only for Pakistanis, but for the rest of the world also. Furthermore Islam is part of Pakistan, will remain part of Pakistan and will keeps Pakistan united (ENSHALLAH). If anyone wants Islam taken away from Pakistan, I encourage them to go and study Islam before you make any judgments.
November 19, 2007 12:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 12:27
Furthermore about the Indians commenting on Pakistani politics....
Look at your country India before commenting on Pakistani situation.
There are 16 (sixteen) insurgencies going on right now in India.
4000 Muslims were burned alive and killed by Hindu extremists, just few years back.
Siks had an uprising against the government and many massacred.
Approx. 700,000 Indian troops are in Indian held Kashmir, denying peoples rights and freedom. No media personal is allowed there. (Look at the contrast to about 200,000 American troops in Iraq).
No private NGO is allowed in India.
Furthermore if India does not have a very huge army it would probably break apart.
November 19, 2007 11:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 11:49
Benezir Partially lives in UK (PPP). Altaf Hussain lives in UK(MQM). Nawaz Sharif partially lives in UK(PML-N). Imran Khan partially lives in UK(PTI). And many other top Pakistani politicians are in one way or the other are connected to UK. If Pakistan breaks up then definitely UK will soon become Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Even if Pakistan doesn't break up, UK will soon become Islamic Republic of Pakistan, as none in UK politics can compete with Pakistani Politicians. People of UK don't even know the people they are harboring and protecting.
Anyway EnshALLAH Pakistan will grow boundaries based on One Way of Life i.e. Islam. And EnshALLAH it will never break up.
November 19, 2007 11:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 11:26
Well If the witer of the column may read it I think there r certain things he didn't knew himself and certain things are clearly baseless in his own mind.
First there is a much strongly understandable and commonlanguage in Pakistan rather than English , which is URDU . I know its a bit badluck that its not the official language.
The views about lawlessness, smuggling and terror are basically not directly from Pakistan.
AS you said Afganistan is producing 90% of opium , Y not to stop them. Smuggling is taking between IRAN and Pak , Y dont we go on to stop cross boader mutually. Extremism , well I believe that only the media is highlighting the extremism in Pakistan, and not showing the complete picture of what is happening in Indian Held Khashmir, Afghanistan and IRAQ .
Then As per the Kashmir Issue, I think UN has passed the rasolution in favour of Pakistan.
I believe Pakistan is a Nation with a short 60 years history but it has seen alot of goods and bads, and I think its the greatness of this country that it is serviving all these things and its our Solid Believe that it will Servive this tough political time too.
November 19, 2007 7:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 07:51
Interesting. Possible if problems continue.
The current situation in Pakistan cannot be sustained in the long term.
November 19, 2007 6:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 06:55
I disagree with the ideas presented by Mr. Ali Ettefagh. There may be political difficulties and constitutional crises but thats not because of four provinces with different cultures.
November 19, 2007 1:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 01:23
I disagree with the ideas presented by Mr. Ali Ettefagh. There may be political difficulties and constitutional crises but thats not because of four provinces with different cultures.
November 19, 2007 1:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 01:19
This writer had a thought and wrote an article just to prove that.
Pakistan is definetly not a perfect state, but points raised here in this article can be found in all countries and may be worse than this....
November 19, 2007 12:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 00:44
Ali Ettefagh
I think you are out of your mind. We have a emergency its our problem not yours.You shiya always have a problem with the wahabisim.Why don't you understand all Pakistani's(97% muslims,3% minorities) all have the same problem.But we donot want your help, we want moral support from the countries who new what the freedom is not your hypothetical Islamic Shiya state.
The thing i remember is that we are not the one who's border you want to dissolve its your country that western countries want to tear apart, so why don't you see the matters of your country and leave us alone because we take good care of ourself INSHALLAH.
November 19, 2007 12:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 19, 2007 00:24
The most ill conceived article ever written on washington post. The writer is stating too many things without any facts to back them up.
November 18, 2007 3:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:46
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
November 18, 2007 3:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:17
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
November 18, 2007 3:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:14
I don't get what are you trying prove through this article. Racism exists in every part of world so does in Pakistan, drugs story was true but its not the case anymore, as Americans have occupied Afghanistan and there are many independent reports about Opium free pakistan, even if there is any such thing then i think its better to blame USA rather than blaming Pakistan, and by the way I confess Whatever is going on in here is not right, and we pakistani are all sick of it, but can someone bother to address the root cause of all this mess? reigns of all the politicians{elected by paki people} in pakistan's history were demolished by pakistan's army, and this is the only reason why pakistan has such a bad political history unlike india may be. But Question is "WHO" always supports Pakistani Armys action, its not paki ppl but USA itself. Even now whatever is happening in pakistan USA is watching all this mess with zipped mouth, as USA can't afford to loose a supporting unit against taliban, but all it takes sacrifices of the rights of paki ppl who've been deprived of all the basics rights by Army Generals, over and over again. I'm just 23 years old and I believe its the only time If we as a nation doesn't take some serious steps then we'll never do anything regarding this mess and you can call this a Nation's failure or whatever.but its Now or Never i guess.
November 18, 2007 3:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 15:12
Great writing, thanks.
November 18, 2007 12:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 12:42
This writer had a thought and wrote an article just to prove that.
Pakistan is definetly not a perfect state, but points raised here in this article can be found in all countries and may be worse than this....
November 18, 2007 9:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 18, 2007 09:48
Et tu Brutus! Well done Mr. Etibagh What a great way to respond to the feelings of love and warmth people in Pakistan harbour for their brothers in Iran just because they share the same faith.
I guess it is more to do with the Iranian charachter of backstabbing anyone capable of standing up on its feet because the schezophrenic Iranian mind sees any freedom as a threat to its existence.
Anyway thank you for your comment, for I as a muslim cannot wish a brotherly muslim collection of about 70 million people ill.
I guess it is something to do with the basics of our faith- atleast the version practiced on our side of the border.
November 17, 2007 9:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 09:01
I totally disagree with Mr. Ali. Who is he to comment on Pakistan. All due respect but with all its flaws Pakistan has survived 60 years when it was claimed that it wont even survive 48 hrs.
There is a joke among intellectuals regarding Pakistan. When a writer comes to Pakistan he says i'll write a book on Pakistan. After staying for 6 months he says I think i'll write an article on Pakistan and after staying for a year he says I better try and understand the dynamics of the country first before doing any writing.
So Mr. Ali, from our very friendly neighbouring country Iran, I should first Thank you for such a thoruogh analysis of my country. But you dont have your facts straight at all. Pakistan has experienced much more development than Iran has in the recent years, its economic development matching that of India and China. And the border you talk about so ravaged by smugglers, is not just Pakistan's fault. People on your side have their share too. There is a deep rooted sectarianism in your country where sunni Muslims suffer the most, living below poverty line in some places.
By the way our nuclear Arsenals aren't under inspection by IAEA but Iran's are. I wonder why?
Every country has their share of problems. Where there are individuals, there is always a difference of opinion and where there is just dictatorship and religious fanaticism, like Iran, individuality fails to rise up to national levels.
Our country can boast of atleast some form of freedom of expression......but can your country do that?
November 17, 2007 8:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 17, 2007 08:47
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
November 15, 2007 2:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 14:57
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
November 15, 2007 2:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 14:57
I never thought an 'Idiot' like Ali Ettefagh would be given editorial space on a respected forum like this. Mr Ettefagh should look at his country Iran and It's problems before raising issues in other countries. Theocracies like Iran are the major problem facing the world right now not Pakistan. Mr Ettefagh would laugh at me by saying that he belongs to a country which has one of the oldest civilizations(Persians) in the world but he should recall history how they were formed and how they have survived. Many historians have shown that this civilization was at one time full of barbarians, bastards and prostitutes sent from all over the world. Evidence of that is Mehmood Ahmedinjad.
November 15, 2007 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 14:56
Love For My Country
Please give a serious thought to the situation currently existing in the country. Why did it come to this stage?
Whenever things are getting better for Pakistan and whenever it is on the road to achieving greater economic development and progress something happens which not only stops all this but takes the country back many many years. This has happened before and is happening now!
All those people blaming General Musharraf for the prevailing situations have to stop and think why did this happen?
What would have happened if the 11 member Judicial Panel had, let say, given the decision in favour of the President letting the Notification be issued and the President taking the oath as planned. He would have removed his uniform as promised and the elections would have been held in January 2008 as per the schedule already announced. The Country would have had a civilian setup and democracy would have prevailed.
The path of progress and development which was matching China and India would not only have continued but, the way things were going, would have reached the height which other developing countries could only dream of. The number of foreign investors queuing up to enter the Pakistan market would have increased many-a-fold.
In case the Supreme Court had given a decision against General Musharraf becoming a President then what would have happened?
General Musharraf would have left his appointment as President and COAS. The assemblies would have been dissolved between November and December 2007. An interim arrangement would have come up to hold the general elections. The war against terrorism and extremism would have been left directionless as no Army Chief would take the responsibility of being involved in any Military adventure or campaign without the legal coverage of the government. The confidence the foreign and domestic investors and entrepreneurs had in the present arrangements in the country would have been shattered. The Stock Exchange would have collapsed affecting each and every segment of our society. Knowing the ‘love and affection’ our political parties have for each other, they would have gone all-out attacking their opponents and creating a state of anarchy through out the country. As a united front would not have been there, the Talibization Forces would have had an open field to propagate and expand their ‘interpretation’ of Islam, initially to the areas adjoining Tribal Areas and then to other parts of the country. The part of the general public opposing them would have to come out in force, if they wanted to have a winning chance in countering them. Result: Civil War? The enemy of the State would not miss a golden opportunity like this! Number of suicide and terrorist attacks would have increased many-a-fold.
Why did the Judiciary create conditions forcing the government in chair to take such an extreme step of declaring an Emergency? Why did they not let President Musharraf take the country towards elections, the civilian rule and the democracy in its true sense?
Are they working for anti Pakistan forces which want to let down Pakistan but in the garb of providing justice and fair-play? Or do they have a personal vendetta against General Musharraf for which they are willing to put the Country at stake?
Why is Imran Khan, supported by certain other political parties, trying to create anarchy in the Country by forcing the students to leave their studies and to come out on the street? Does he not understand the implications of what he is trying to do? Who is he helping? The people of Pakistan or its enemies? The ‘cover’ he is using for motivating them to agitate is restoration of Constitution! He is also willing to put the integrity of Country at risk to hurt General Musharraf! Should the students play in his hand? Do we want him and his “friends” to create a situation which encourages people to write anti Pakistan articles such as (Cut and paste):
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/ali_ettefagh/2007/11/why_not_dissolve_pakistan_too.html
If the Judiciary had not got their personal egos involved and had thought of the welfare and betterment of the country all of this could have been avoided. For the first time the transaction to the civilian government would have taken place peacefully setting a very good precedence for all to follow. This in the long run would have strengthened the political institutions and Judiciary, bringing in stability, unprecedented progress and development to the country ensuring end to any future military take over.
We as good Pakistanis have to answer this question:
“Do we love our country more than we hate our opponent? Or do we hate our opponent more that we love out Country?”
This question means that if we love our country more than we hate our opponent then there would be a cut off point where we stop letting our opponent down because if we don’t, the country would suffer. On the other hand if we hate our opponent more than we love our country then we couldn’t care less what happens to Pakistan as long as we can hurt our opponent.
I sincerely hope all Pakistanis especially our Politicians and Judiciary can understand and answer this question positively proving that their love for the country is greater than any other issue they may have.
Samina Tariq
Islamabad
November 15, 2007 3:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 15, 2007 03:39
great writing and true!
November 13, 2007 11:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 13, 2007 11:53
Pakistan is a Frankenstein created and raised by the west.
November 12, 2007 6:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 18:06
Writer is correct that the creation of Pakistan was a huge mistake, though his solution may be equally improbable. Indian leaders (Gandhi/Nehru/Patel) were against a religion based separation, but had to cave in to jinnah/muslim league. Britain stoked the partition demand in the garb of trying to be just to muslims, a united India was not in it's interest. What happened was a blunder where a nation was born just with the idea of muslim fundamentalism. Need one say more.
The world will have to bear the consequence as well as find solutions...
November 12, 2007 5:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 17:59
Great observations. You ought to be the UN Secretary General.
November 12, 2007 4:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 12, 2007 04:09
Pakistan's story of independence is full of sad episodes.It wasn't treated fairly, in the first place by the then British Rulers and many muslim majority areas were annexed to India. Then too many problems, like unsufficient funds to run the country, foreign intervention esp. from India which resulted in its further division, Army's role in politics and Western support for dictators, then nuclear race initiated by India, failed foreign policy and blind support for US which gave birth to radical fighters(mujahideen), and now corrupt leaders vs corrupt generals,,,,All these factors all responsible for the prevailing circumstances but one thing is sure that Pakistani People has shown strong stand in all these challenging circumstances and will stay united , no matter how hard are the problems and dissolution ?? ,,, NO QUESTION SIR !
November 9, 2007 9:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 21:02
Do it. It is a good idea.
November 9, 2007 11:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 11:11
Pakistan is not alone in its historical reason for its establishment. There were simply too many countries formed when the colonial era by western countries started to fade or retreat. The instability and false democracy in Pakistan to a large degree is not the Pakistanis' own doing. There are simply too many external factors, coupled with the blind ambition of the current dictator, who along the way made a mess of the country as we are seeing today. As a person who does not have high remarks on lawyers in our socity in the States, I would like to pay my highest respect to those lawyers in Pakistan now who are taking the lead to defend the country's democracy. Just for that, Pakistan desires to be an independent country because democracy and freedom should be the dream of any humanbeing in this world. We enjoy it in the States. We certainly support the same right for any freedom loving people in any country: in Pakistan, as well as in Iran.
November 9, 2007 10:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 10:58
T-55
Great liberty with the facts!
Pakistan ranks as one of the countries with the lowest support for suicide bombings and terrorism, according to the most recent polls. Polling on the basis of Al Qaeda is not enough, since most people distrust the US to the extent that they think AQ is just a scapegoat for US ambitions to conquer the Muslim world. The important questions are about support for killing civilians and violence to achieve ones political goals, and in that Pakistan ranks lower than Iran. Heck a poll in the US showed more Americans willing to nuke Muslim countries (thereby killing millions of innocent civilians)than any Muslims willing to do the same.
The rest of you, including Ettefagh, can continue daydreaming about Pakistan breaking up. Pakistani identity is strong -from Pastun to Sindhi, and we ain't going anywhere, and there is nothing you can do about it other than rant.
The Indians with their silly "Akhand Bharat" ideas can keep day dreaming too.
November 9, 2007 10:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 10:14
Musharraf represents the sum and substance of Pakistan....a fraud!
Thank you Dr. Ettefagh for this article.
November 9, 2007 9:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 09:51
Your thinking is according to the willing of the peoples.
November 9, 2007 9:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 09:44
Mr. Bhutto is now Aung San Suu Kyi in her own country! So, the only differences between Burmah and Pakistan are:
1. Nukes
2. Pakistan is not a NPT signatory....dangerous!
3. The Burmese generals have no claims to democracy or tricks about elections up their sleeve.
4. The Burmese always wear their uniforms and they do not think of themselves as civilians.
5. The burmese religious schools and monks are peaceful and simple people. The Pakistanis preach hate and promote terrorism.
November 9, 2007 9:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 09:37
Tahnk you for a good idea.
All posters above that want to divert attention to other countries and get ready to split other countries must first realise that the issue and the problem is Pakistan, not Azerbaijan, Iran, Kurds, etc. Why, you ask?
Iran, Kurds, Azerbaijan, Europe, etc. do not approve of hate-teaching and madrassas on their soil to "educate" or develop terrorists and then send them to New York to hijack planes and slam them into buildings and kill people at random, or blow up the underground in London. None of these countries have a 505% approval rating of Al Qaeda!
November 9, 2007 9:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 09:12
Dear Ali Ettefagh,
PAKISTAN was initially the brainchild of CHOUDHARY REHMAT ALI OF Punjab(undivided) who lived in London in 1920s. Jinnah was not in its favour, initially. REHMAT ALI is supposed to have done at the behest of some of his mischjevious BRITISH FRIENDS who wanted to scuttle the CONGRESS LED freedom movement in India. Rehmat Ali had coined this term with three MUSLIM DOMINATED states of pre-indepemdence i.e Punjab, Assam(not Afghania) and Kashmir. Jinnah had remarked," A drunkards's silly day-dreaming". It was inner politics of GANDHI's CONGRESS that pushed JINNAH into it and religion-based UP elections in 1937 converted him fully. It was the BRITISH idea of reserving constituencies for the MUSLIMS and the RIFT started--which consumed great NATIONALISTS like JINNAH and Dr sir IQBAL MOHAMMED--who was a famous URDU POET. HINDU-MUSLIM divide by BRITAIN was deliberate to ensure its HOLD over JEWEL IN THE CROWN.
If history is any evidence then BRITAIN of 1947 and its leaders of the times stand accused for creating the KASHMIR problem. One should know that the biggest LOSER of SECOND WORLD WAR was not GERMANY or JAPAN or even ITALY but BRITAIIN--which lost its empire as an aftermath of it. When HISTORY of AFRO-ASIAN Nations is rewritten, HITLER will emerge as their greatest BENEFACTOR for initiating the collapse of GREAT BRITISH EMPIRE --Where supposedly SUN NEVER SET prior to the WAR.
Pakistan is the HISTORICAL NECESSITY of TORRID TIMES of 1947. Let us not assume otherwise. By 1947, SOCIAL divide had been complete and BRITAIN had suceeded by religion- based elections to tear away the INDIAN society. But BRITAIN was looking for herself a future role in the sub continent by creating KASHMIR PROBLEM.this would have given him some say in the POST WAR WORLD. Mountbatten and BRITISH ARMY OFFICERS on both sides of INDO-PAK borders had played a key role in this. Mountbatten played up NEHRU, JINNAH and MAHARAJA HARISINGH--advising all three ---three different things to create a stalemate. And stalemate it remains even after 60 years.
Pakistan has been unfortunate since its inception because of self-motivated ambitions of their leaders of post Jinnah and Liaqat--who had banished in the early period when PAKISTAN was still in its cradle. Scheming BUREAUCRATS and MILITARY Generals collaborated to create a role for themselves. And they have consolidated their positions over the 60 years.
If you have to dissolve and dismantle anything in PAKISTAN then train your guns and thoughts on its military and its brain child ISI--who operates AL Queda and its TERROR MACHINE. PAK MILITARY IS THE MOTHER OF GLOBAL TERRORISM. Pakistan in itself is a nation of god fearing emotional people--who have been exploited by scheming GENERALS. I SUPPOSE THE SURVIVABILITY OF PAKISTAN IS A MUST FOR THE EXISTENCE OF INDIA. It is ironical but true that against the 'HATE INDIA PHILOSOPHY' OF PAKISTAN's ADMINISTRATION and MILITARY since its inception---India ought to now adopt 'LOVE PAKISTAN' TO ENSURE ITS OWN SECURITY AND SAFETY. Rajee Kushwaha
November 9, 2007 8:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 08:01
It is beyond doubt that US administration has supported Pakistan in every manner possible. US needed, and still needs, such a government in Islamabad that can counter the threats from the terrorist network in the country. US wants a man in seat in Pakistan who can act even going against the will of the locals. General Musharraf fits in the role.
November 9, 2007 2:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 02:51
this is all anti islamic propoganda n all nonsence.bloody christians are after muslims n how come the Pope is silent.look your own affairs and for GOD sake don,t interfere in others religion or u the christians will vanish from this world.all the humanity r against the bloody chirstians.
November 9, 2007 2:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 9, 2007 02:19
Ali E. lives in a provincial world. Pakistan has not been allowed to build its nation but everything-almost the pseudo-expert Ali has said applies to Iraq, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Israel,India, Scotland etc. As a matter of fact to reach his ideal borders we must immediately take Kurd territories from Iran, syria, Iraq and Turkey to create a logical nation. Has Mr. Ali the guts to apply his principles to Israel? Present human experience could reach the maturity that once existed in the recent US itself where people of diverse background could live without the petty divisions of humanity- to some extent we still live in the US under that doctrine. Others can learn. Borders should not be important for coexistence. Recent integration of Europe is a good improvement unlike Ali doctrine.As Qur'an said God created different nations so they can compete (sabaqat) with each other in doing good for all humanity. Nobel Prizes emphasize the principle. Mr. Ali needs to reach out to ultimate civility than to divide people and reorganize earth.(Dr. Zubairi)
November 8, 2007 6:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 18:10
Have Gun, Will Rule
Musharraf is bent upon ruling Pakistan because he has a gun in his hand and Bush & Chenye are backing him. The people of Pakistan be damned.
One the one hand US Administration tries to justify Iraqi occupation by saying it is bringing democracy to Iraq and on the other, it supports a military dictator who decimates democratic institutions, independent judiciary and rule of law.
The Pakistan Supreme Court was about to rule whether Musharraf could be a candidate for President for another term. According to the constitution Government employees are not allowed to contest elections within two years of retiring and Musharraf has not even retired yet. It was a forgone conclusion that Supreme Court will find Musharraf ineligible. Instead of stepping down quietly and handing over power to Senate Chairman, Musharraf has resorted to extreme and ultra constitutional steps.
How many people in the U.S. would stand for it if George Bush did this to the U.S. Supreme Court and its judges? No civilised society should stand for subversion of the highest courts, shredding of constitution and detention of judges, lawyers and politicians.
People of Pakistan have always complained that various U.S. Administrations develop friendships with their rulers & dictators and not with people of Pakistan. This has led to resentment and strong anti-American sentiment in the country. It is time that the ordinary citizens of United States impress upon their Administration to stand up against the rule of gun and express solidarity with people of Pakistan as they need and support to defeat a dictator.
Musharraf is not the only person in Pakistan who can help fight terror. The people of Pakistan are fed up with extremists and want to ensure that terrorism is brought to an end. This is better achieved through democratically elected leaders rather than through a military dictator.
The only way Musharraf will listen is if US Administartion insists that he immediately restore constitution, allow the Supreme Court to function with all its judges as before, withdraw emergency rule and release all lawyers, judges, politicians and other citizens.
November 8, 2007 4:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 16:03
Taking your anti-sunni frustrations out on Pakistan Mr. Ettefagh?
lets not forget that there was no one country in existence before the British colonized South Asia and created a colony called British India. What existed before then were sometimes great empires and civilizations, never over the entire region, and several princely states and kingdoms. If we accept your argument, then India should be split into hundreds of independent nations as well, since it too is comprised of states with different cultures, languages, religion and even races.
And what about the Kurds and Baluch in Iran? I take it that under your plan Iran would be divided up to give the Kurds their autonomous state and the Baluch merged with their brethren in Pakistan? And can we start dividing the Hispanic majority areas in the US into independent states after a few years too?
You have no idea of the ground realities in Pakistan. Pakistan is as much a nation as is India, since neither existed before 1947, and are both comprised of different ethnicities.
November 8, 2007 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 13:47
Mr. Ettefagh has done a knee-jerk and a hasty analysis, not supported by any historic fact or content. US, although a country of great hard working people also consists of 52 states. Try comparing North with the South and East with the West Coast of US and you will get an answer.
True that Pakistan consists of diverse cultures, but nearly all the people with little education can speak and communicate in Urdu. So the binding force is not only and only religion, but similarity of cultural origins. Same is true about India. In India, there is only one language that effectively binds 100 different kinds of people and that is English. If you talk to a Malayalam or a Tamil speaking Southern Indian person in Hindi, you will invariably get an answer in English. Look at Uttarakhand and the mountaneous regions of India and compare them with Bombay or New Delhi, they are all poles apart. The areas bordering China are similar to Chinese and do not talk or lead their lives like average North Indian people.
Having said all that, there is only one aspect that binds people together and that is good governance, justice and equality, something that Pakistan could never get, but the reasons as given by Mr. Ettefagh are totally untrue. Actually, the reasons have not much to do with religion, but have a lot to do with Feudal system and its total control of governance. Religion has just recently started to play a role in national politics of Pakistan and that too after Pakistan fought a US proxy war against Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
I would advise Mr. Ettefagh to read and understand the political dynamics of the region, before attempting to embark upon the adventure of churning out worthless articles like this one. I can understand the typical Iranian jealousy of the military might of Pakistan, in terms of nuclear technology and the backwardness of the Iranian technology and the political leadership but fail to understand how a news medium of prestige like Washington Post, publish articles based upon personal hatred, that have unsubstantiated and totally wrong assertions.
November 8, 2007 1:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 8, 2007 13:28
A country based on a flawed premise cannot survive. Hindus and Muslims of the subcontinent were not two nations. Consider that there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan today. The reason why India survives (it is also an artificial construct) is because it is secular. On the other hand had India been a Hindu nation - it would be in the same state as Pakistan is today.
November 7, 2007 5:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 17:02
Ridiculous article indeed.On same principle, almost all countries in the world should be divided into smaller groups starting with Iran where presians form only 50 percent of the total population.Try to be more realistic in your thoughts Mr, Ettefagh.
November 7, 2007 4:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 16:45
Buggs Bunny @November 7, 2007 8:18 AM: "Americans do not blow up bombs when a rival politician and they do not deport politicians from their own country, no matter the politics and differences between them. And Americans do not suspend the constitution or make a deal with Taliban. There is a slight difference between USA and Pak."
You are right. But, unlike Pakistan, we invade countries for no reason and cause hundreds of thousands of deaths. We also feel free and unrestricted to poke our noses into other countries' affairs, and then we run like heck when all hell breaks loose. That is what makes us particularly dangerous.
November 7, 2007 12:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 12:58
Buggs Bunny! Perhaps you forgot about the assassination of past U.S. presidents. Violence has always been part of U.S. history. However, events need to be put in their context.
November 7, 2007 11:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 11:46
time for mass street protests and implosion of the place formerly known as Pakistan....
November 7, 2007 10:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 10:30
Correct and bold view. Let's do it!
November 7, 2007 9:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 09:54
ANDREW BURROUGHS
Americans do not blow up bombs when a rival politician and they do not deport politicians from their own country, no matter the politics and differences between them.
And Americans do not suspend the constitution or make a deal with Taliban. There is a slight difference between USA and Pak.
November 7, 2007 8:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 08:18
How nice, we have some of the same crowd that brought the Iraq War now calling for its disolution. Now we have a new call for the breakup of Pakistan. On the logic expressed in this essay, one could have also argued that the United States was an artificial construction made up of two peoples in 1860. What the writer does not deal with, nor Senator Biden in his quixotic call for Iraq to be divided, is the minor detail- the majority in both countries might actually be proud of their country and rather than seeing it divided wish to see it emerge even more united and stronger. It is the political terms of unification and goverance that are at issue- not whether they should remain united.
November 7, 2007 7:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 07:00
It is hard, if not impossible, to deny that Pakistan is a failed state. Failed states are always dangerous. Time to go back to the drawing board. Pakistan is not like China, India, Russia, Persia or Egypt that are ancient settlements and civilisations and the blind "nationalism" of Pakistanis above seems to be short-sighted.
Those that are attacking the writer and his country should also take note that the Iranian National Youth football (soccer) team defeated Pakistan yesterday in Tehran....14 to zip!
Not a good week for Pakistan...at all!
November 7, 2007 2:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 7, 2007 02:37
Deconstruction makes its entrance in geopolitics. If generalized around the world, it will be a big program for the United Nations. Starting in Europe, I suppose?
November 6, 2007 9:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:45
Very interesting article. Yes Pakistan is a failed state because It is an artificial state created by England as a parting kick to India. but the solution is not breaking Pakistan into small tribal states. A reunited Indian subcontinent where all the different entities are respected and given full democratic rights is the solution. If the present multi ethnic and multi religious India can survive successfully the united states of India will also survive and prosper
November 6, 2007 9:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:41
Very interesting article. Yes Pakistan is a failed state because It is an artificial state created by England as a parting kick to India. but the solution is not breaking Pakistan into small tribal states. A reunited Indian subcontinent where all the different entities are respected and given full democratic rights is the solution. If the present multi ethnic and multi religious India can survive successfully the united states of India will also survive and prosper
November 6, 2007 9:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:41
Aamir Ali - There is no change in tune. Things are not as simplistic as you suggest. "Let the Indian army leave and Kashmiris will tear out the Indian flag", you stated simplistically. I might suggest that let the Indian army leave and the let the Pakthuns invade Kashmir again. I am sure Kashmiri women cannot wait. It has been 60 years and Pakthun men are salivating already. Only, my analysis is based on reality!
November 6, 2007 9:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:38
Mike the Bostonian:
It is legitimate to attack a person's ethnicity and citizenship when that person launches an attack on your country.
Dr Ali Ettefagh is a silly Iranian nationalist who should advocate freedom for Arabs and Kurds in Iran, then talk about somebody else.
November 6, 2007 9:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:32
Shabana:
You are changing your tune now, earlier you were blaming everything in Kashmir on "Islamofascism" now you admit Kashmiris also support Pakistan alongwith Independence.
What else are you willing to admit? Wont be a stretch to also admit how many thousands of Kashmiris have been killed by the Indian Army.
November 6, 2007 9:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 21:27
Very thought provoking (unfortunately not practical) idea.
Advice to Pakistani readers: Please do not attack author’s ethnicity or citizenship
November 6, 2007 8:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 20:46
Aamir Ali - you presume too much. I know families in Kashmir that are torn between Pakistan, India and independence. I am talking where one spouse prefers India and another Pakistan.
Abbas from Peshawar - How come the first thing that is pointed out to a Muhajir is either the color of skin or how sub-muslim they are? Why do you think there is a guy in London controlling Muhajirs in Karachi.
November 6, 2007 8:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 20:06
Shabana:
The Indian Army has been in Kashmir, with strong presence since 1947. Today there are 500,000 Indian troops in Occupied Kashmir, who have been killing Kashmiris for last 60 years. They are the only reason the Indian flag flies in Kashmir.
Withdraw the Indian Army from Kashmir and you will see how quickly the Kashmiris tear down the Indian flag.
And talk nonsense about "terrorism". The biggest killer in Kashmir is the Indian Army.
November 6, 2007 7:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:58
Shabana:
Did you know Musharraf is a Muhajir and that the political party that controls Karachi and lower Sindh is also a Muhajir party? Sounds like Muhajirs are doing fine in Pakistan.
You didnt know anything about Muhajir's just like you didnt know anything about the Kashmiris.
To the Afghan posters on this page: You Afghans willingly took money and guns from foreigners and destroyed your own country. Accept it.
November 6, 2007 7:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:53
Aamir Ali, there was no significant Indian Army presence in Kashmir till the "insurgency" Islamofacism started. I was there in 1982-1984.
November 6, 2007 7:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:51
Shabana:
Thousands of Kashmiris were killed by the Indian Army in the 1980's, why do you think the insurgency started in 1989 ?? Kashmiris hate India and wish to be rid of it.
5454:
Pakistani life is more valuable that your garbage opinion.
November 6, 2007 7:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:46
Abed - Muhajir - just see how you are being treated in Pakistan. You would have been slightly better off in India with its huge Hindu population. Just see that 10 people, all Hindus, jailed for the Gujrat riots. Any Muslims ever jailed for picking on minorities in your chosen land? No wonder it is self destructing!
November 6, 2007 7:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:43
No power on this earth can undo Pakistan, certainly not the silly insults of Dr Ettefagh and his supporters.
Truth is automatical anything provocative.
November 6, 2007 7:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 19:37
There was a Persian civilization creating culture, engineering and military innovation, recognizing the rights of all humans and respect for religions, when the British lands were nothing more than barbaric inhabited lands, only to be tamed much later by the Romans.
Britian didn't create Persia. They did however play a significant role in diminishing it. Whereas Britian and the French created what today is the middle east and other asian countries.
November 6, 2007 6:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 18:26
To Abed, you say that Iran is also a "British carve out"?
What have you been smoking?
Once again to you, M. Saeed Chaudhary, and others who talk about the kurds and Baluchis in Iran and those provinces being carved out, I ask that you read your history.
In the middle east, the only 2 countries to have, for the most part, territorial integrity and continuous cultural and geographic presence over the last 2,500 years are Egypt and Persia.
To say something so idiotic as what M. Saeed Chaudhary says "Kurdistan was never a part of Iran" just really stinks up this joint.
Lets debate, but lets not be stupid either. The Kurds are of the same race as the persians, which is why Saddam slaughtered them the way he did. They are non-arabs. Based on your logic, Persians can lay historical claim to most of middle east, including pakistan and central asia. But obviously this argument wouldn't make much sense to reasonable people. At various times and after various declines of empires, Persia was in fact carved out and left to what it is now, basically its core. Similar to the Ottoman empire being scaled down to what is now modern turkey.
November 6, 2007 6:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 18:15
It is country held together by a cricket team. Please don't spoil the fun for south Asian cricket fans.
November 6, 2007 6:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 18:07
Mr. Ettefagh: Iran (apparently your home country) and Iraq are pretty much British carve outs as well. Let's just extend your hypothetical then. We'd certainly be free from asking Shia and Sunni to live together.
Pakistan's Muhajirs I would probably disagree with your characterization of their country as a "relic set up as a counterweight to India". They would probably mention that it was a shelter from Hindu discrimination against Indian Muslims.
November 6, 2007 4:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 16:56
Mr Ettefagh,
You seem to be a spokesman of Pakistan's rival country, India which never accepted Pakistan as an independent country and has always been attempting to dismember it. You also may be eyeing the province of Baluchistan which is close and has some similarities to Iran. Your argument that it was formed from four different provinces and thus should be dismembered is also quite flimsy as several countries in the world have quite dissimilar ethnic components in their formations. It were the people of those eprovinces who voted to be a part of the new country, called Pakistan. Moreover, Iran itself consists of differing ethnic groups. Does that mean it should also be dismembered into those ethnic groups just for that reason? Besides, Pakistan is a country that has not gobbled up any other country or region. Whereas Iran has done so during recent past. Kurdistan was never a part of Iran. Why shouldn't it give it up to the Kurds to form their own country? I would like to go on and on, but I would only say that let people decide where and how they want to live and not wizards like Ali whose ulterior motives will only exacerbate problems than solve them.
November 6, 2007 4:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 16:09
That's right. Blame the British for everything! *yawn*
As anyone with any knowledge of history is well aware, the fault was Jinnah's. Before Partition Nehru offered him the leadership of the undivided subcontinent. He refused, and the rest is history, the horrors of Partition in 1947, and the continued misery and hardship of millions of people.
I remember the "good life" in Kashmir before Muslim militants turned this multicultural community into a misery, either killing or scaring away the Buddhists and Hindus whose ancestors had long been part of its fabric. Remember that a millenium ago Kashmir was indeed a paradise, with great Buddhist teachers who attracted followers from far away. What have Muslim fanatics done? Destroyed Bamiyan, occupied the sacred land of Swat where the great teacher Padmasamhava was born, and swept away the tolerant way of life that these peoples had enjoyed for so long.
Kashmir? It's worth recalling its history. When Ghulab Singh and his brothers joined Kashmir with Jammu and Ladakh in the middle of the nineteenth century, life became better for the average Kashmiri. Don't believe me? Read Moorcroft's account of the time he spent in the Vale of Kashmir in the 1820s, while it was still under the thumb of the Sikhs based in Lahore. He saw Sikh soldiers supervising the rice harvesting, taking away nine-tenths of the grain and leaving only one-tenth for the villagers! And even this was an improvement over their previous overlords, the Pathan, whose favourite sport was to tie two Kashmiris together, throw them into Dal Lake, and watch them drown! The Pathan called the Kashmiris "Zul parast" ("lovers of slavery")! Under Ghulab Singh and his successors, Kashmir was, from the 1850s on, a good place to live for the average citizen.
I'm tired of Ali Ettefagh's ignorant formulaic diatribe. This sort of thing gets old really quickly. He may be clever at making money, but that, it seems, is the extent of his talents!
November 6, 2007 3:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 15:51
Zahid Raja, go get a life. Kashmiris were doing fine till the Islamofacists brought terrorism to the valley. You should have checked it out in 1984. It was serene and beautiful. And, then came the Islamofacists/terrorists from across the border!
November 6, 2007 3:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 15:47
All of you putting down the author of this brilliant article, stop shooting the messenger. Pakistan is on its way to self descruction, ready to implode or explode or whatever. Pakistan's founder's grandson lives and thrives in India. That should tell you something about the stink in Pakistan.
November 6, 2007 3:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 15:22
I think Mr.Ettefagh has a luxury to write whatever he wishes,however, it is very much apparent from his writting that he does't know much about Pakistan.His prejudice about Pakistan is very much evident from his comments regarding Pakistan's position on kashmir.I like to tell Mr. Ettefagh that the Kashmiris who are living under repression know a lot about opression than Mr. Ettefagh.I regret very much that such a reputable paper allows such a rubish to be printed from a hate monger.
November 6, 2007 3:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 15:16
Extremism in Afghanistan and Pakistan is the direct result of cold war as well as desire by the west to control the middle east oil which is likely to continue to haunt us. The U.S. and its western allies are not innocent in what is going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
November 6, 2007 2:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 14:40
Well, if we had only realized it was that simple... we'll just wave our magic wand and voila, Pakistan is gone.
November 6, 2007 2:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 14:12
Well, if we had only realized it was that simple... we'll just wave our magic wand and voila, Pakistan is gone.
November 6, 2007 2:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 14:12
Wwwwho gets to keep the nukes?
November 6, 2007 1:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 13:37
Some of these points are solid. I really cannot argue with the author and I think he has opened the right subject for debate.
November 6, 2007 11:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 11:54
Unfortunately most Pakistani commentators on this forum have verbally attacked the author and the publisher (Dr. Ettefagh and Washingtonpost&Newsweek). The attackers are educated Pakistanis with Ph.Ds from Islamabad Universities, also known as Jihad Universities.
I wonder what is the difference between general Busharaf and the Pakistani crowd here?
Neither of them like freedom of speech and want the people to shut up and publish what the Pakis like.
The truth is always hard to bear.
November 6, 2007 10:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 10:41
This is a good way to share clear thoughts and I congratulate the writer on being bold enough to share his thoughts.
Although the article is written before the recent coup, it has predicted the nature of the Pakistani sham. Musharraf is not convincing enough and his recent speech after the coup that he is doing it for Pakistan shows the stranded state of mind in that country. He rounded up diplomats that he is doing this for Pakistan but said very little about how he will handle terrorists. Pakistan has arrested human rights activists, judges and lawyers that want rule of law, instead of rounding up terrorists, smugglers and shady operators. By itself, it is a telling story!
November 6, 2007 8:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 08:51
Mr. Ettefagh:
I know we all have freedom of speech, no matter how irresponsible. By the same token we torrelate all sorts of not so intelligent views. I did not realize Washington Post will give space to your views. This brings down the calibre of the Newspaper.
It is like going to a movie house and shouting "Fire". The person has a right to free speech but how irresponsible is that.
Got the hint?
November 6, 2007 8:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 08:36
hi,
yes there are few facts in that article if not all. But havin said this, i think there is nother side of it aswell...i mean what diffrent in 2007 is that people have sort of consensus that , we as a nation need democracy, so that we have defeat the threats Pakistan have.
i think first time in history agenda is Pakistan for those who are fighting the army rule, the extremism. people here are not politically organize, they dont learn to participate in it. so its hard to fight, but as i said first time , there is a sense which need few years to deliver great results...just wait for few years....we are normal people and normal nation, yes not as mature, not as organize, not as united, but like any other nation, we have potential , infact more then few other nations,,,so bee careful, we will dissolve or emerge as great nation in few years time...before 2015.
November 6, 2007 6:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 06:59
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/opinion/06tue1.html
November 6, 2007 6:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 06:00
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/world/asia/06musharraf.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
November 6, 2007 5:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 05:22
Pull the plug on Pakistan, disarm it and make it subject heavy sanctions like Iraq and Saddam. Every thing must be shutdown: financial channels, flights, shipping and certainly an ams embargo.
November 6, 2007 4:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 04:16
Sanctions against Pakistan, now!
November 6, 2007 3:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 03:53
Keen observations and true. Fixing a mistake sooner than later is always advised.
November 6, 2007 3:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 03:35
Powerful logic that is not going to happen.The British division of former colonies seems to be the basis of many of the problems in todays society.Lest we forget it was the British who drew the lines for the middle east.Unfortunately power likes to accumulate not divide.So alas a wonderfully logical column but in the real world to no avail.
November 6, 2007 2:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 6, 2007 02:59
Is Persians are ready to see Independent Balochistan beside their occupied Balochistan??
November 5, 2007 10:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 22:20
I think Pakistan is a Bastard Nation born out of lust of Jinnah. There is no third party intervention required to dissolve this unholy mess, Pakis will do themselves with their inner contradictions and external heat because of their love for Bin Laden and Taliban.
Pakistan is a saza to the world(Yeh to phirron ke garror ke saza hai).
November 5, 2007 9:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 21:11
now here is a fascinating theory? somehow out of the colonial shipwreck of britains failed expansionist ventures, we are supposed to create light brigade type charge into pakistan to remake central asia to the detriment of balance and peace, and to the bi-polaristic visions of iran and india. quite a concept, but who is to lead the charge?
November 5, 2007 8:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 20:17
YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!
WHAT ETTEFAG HAS WRITTEN IS NOT SCHOLARSHIP. THIS IS JUST WITCHCRAFT, PURE AND SIMPLE.I AM WONDERING HOW ONE ANSWERS WITCHCRAFT.
LISTEN MR.ETTEFAG PAKISTAN IS NOT SOME CONCOCTED REALITY THAT SICK MINDS LIKE YOU CAN WISH AWAY.WE CREATED PAKISTAN BECAUSE WE WANTED TO LIVE BY OUR OWN RULES.
November 5, 2007 4:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 16:32
I was shocked to see the biased,derogatotry comments of Dr.Ali about Pakistan in your newspaper.It is very surprising and shocking for me and every Pakistani that one of the leading newspaper of the world has published such criminal,very biased,derogatory and discriminatory comments about a sovereign state.
These comments are prejudice and show the hidden agenda and enemosity of dr Ali towards our motherland.Pakistani nation is giving alot of sacrifices since Afghan war.We have suffered alot since that war.Klashinkov and heroin are the gifts of that war.After 9/11 once again we are the frontline ally of the war aginst terrorism.Our armed forces and civilians have given and giving very great sacrifice.The sacrifices of our armed forces and civilians are much more than the combined losses and sacrifices of allied nations.
Dr.Ali is leaving in paradise of fools when he says that we are not one nation.No doubt we have different tribes but we are one nation.He has misperception about our oneness and unity.Who is he who decide the fate of our motherland.
We believe in Non violence but its not our weakness but strength.
We believe that non violence brings Peace and Love whereas violence brings hatred and destruction to the world.
Through this letter i request the leaders of USA,UK,France,China,Germany,Russian,European Union to please immediately convene an Imternational Peace conference. Bt war no force can eliminate the growing violence and hatred.
Its my firm belief that non-violence is the key which give guarantee for Peace and Love.Let us join hands to defeat violence and hatred with non-violence,peace and Love and make the world peaceful and beautiful place.
Media is one of the most effective tool in promoting Peace and Love.
Zubair Aslam Marwat
Ph.D Scholar Muhammad Ali Jinnah University, Islamabd,Pakistan
Email; peace.lover1@yahoo.com
November 5, 2007 3:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 15:08
If that is what it takes to get rid of a terrorist factory, why not? It has gotten worse since the first coup of Musharraf.
November 5, 2007 1:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 13:19
Yes, it is time. They are stuck between their two big friends, the Al Qaeda extremists and the Bush extremists.
Time to force them to act like adults.
November 5, 2007 11:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 11:49
Yes, it is time. They are stuck between their two big friends, the Al Qaeda extremists and the Bush extremists.
Time to force them to act like adults.
November 5, 2007 11:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 11:48
A really good line of thought. The terrorist factory called Pakistan must be shut down. Yes, Pakistan is the most dangerous country.
November 5, 2007 11:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 11:44
One thing that is so common, and it is on full display here as well from the Pakistani and in general other muslims around the world is that they immediately want to shoot the messenger when they don't like the message.
In this particular case, Mr. Ettefagh wrote an opinion for an organization that he is a panelist on. This opinion was surely intended to be provocative and thought provoking, not just focussing on Pakistan, but for that matter all of Middle East (less Iran and Egypt).
Yet what you have here is ill-wishes and prayers, insults and perhaps a few subtle threats as well. You have insults hurled at his country of birth, when perhaps many of his countrymen do not share his viewpoints.
The funniest of all is that these insults and ill-wishes and prayers are preceded by "enshallah" or god-willing. I guess these people see themselves as devout muslims and very holy. They invoke god at every turn and pray to him to harm other human beings. Perhaps that is why the world views muslims as less than civilized and very radical.
My guess is that this behavior, in particular in Pakistan and Arab states are symptoms of insecurity and a sense of inferiority. One looks to India and feels small and the other looks to the rich history and culture of the persians and feels insignificant without their western puppetmasters.
November 5, 2007 11:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 11:22
Dr. Ali Ettefagh's Why Not Dissolve Pakistan, Too?
It is an interesting insight into the making of the country Pakistan. During the 50th Anniversary of the 'Independence Day' I remember Nawaz Sharif going round Jinnah's Mausoleum. Pity there was not a single other freedom fighter Pakistan could even remember let alone celebrate. Independence from whom? It is a misnomer. They could celebrate 14th August as an 'extortion day' certainly not as an Independence Day. When East Pakistan was dismembered there was agony for the shame of the Pakistani soldiers surrendering en masse but never felt about losing the Bangladeshis as such. I found the same shocking treatment when Nawaz Shariff was deported from his own country. None felt bad about it. But one thing I am positive about Pakistanis - No, they would not allow others to dissolve their country they would do it themseleves!
November 5, 2007 11:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 11:00
A good article and a good idea. Immediate action needed to disarm Pakistani nukes.
NOW!
November 5, 2007 10:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 10:34
The author's post is less about dissolving Pakistan or redrawing the boundaries as everyone knows that it is neither possible nor desirable. It is designed to draw attention to the fact that Pakistan is in chaos and has been in chaos since it came into existence in 1947. The democratic impulses have not taken roots. The leadership of the country is game of musical chair to see which corrupt leaders would take the seat. There have been a series of coups. There does not seem to be anything that unifies the country. It has becoming a breeding ground for extremism. I would like to see people who care about Pakistan to confront this state of affairs.
November 5, 2007 9:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 09:30
TO Syed Bhokar
So you are saying that the three wise men were from Kashmir? You really need to do some reading.
I'm not sure if the whole story or the three wise men is true or not, but the experts are pretty much in agreement that they were probably persian Magi of zoroasterian faith.
But lets take your word. The guy who says the events proved correctly that India was not a place for Muslims. This in a country that still has over 150M Muslims?
Also this from a guy whose name here implies a direct descent from the prophet Mohammad? Tell me, do you put Syed as your first name because you and your family claim descendency from the muslim prophet?
Also, believe it or not, Pakistan is not all Muslim. It does have a small minority of other faiths, which accordingly puts it neck-and-neck with India for the second and third largest muslim populous country.
November 5, 2007 9:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 09:17
To CHRIS THOMAS, really I'm not that "young" or "inexperienced". I would say quite the opposite.
Why I call you and your kind "idiots" is because of statements such as the last sentence in your last post: "May God and Allah bless the Pakistani people in this time of uncertainity."
Again, Idiots like you don't understand that God and Allah are one an the same. Allah, Khoda, Yahweh, Gott, Dieu, and God are all the same in different languages. They all refer to the God of Abraham.
November 5, 2007 9:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 09:05
Pakistan must be immediately taken under full and complete control of UNSC and full set of sanctions must be set up against it and be forced to join NPT and disarm from its nukes.
This article is brightly thought and clear written. Thank you Dr. Ettefagh
November 5, 2007 8:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 08:27
Sir
With all due respect to you it is not for a foreigner to decide wether we ought to dissolve or not, it is for the 160 million proud Pakistanis to decide their fate. Your comments will bring alot of hurt to a generation which vividly remembers the blood, toil and tears that went into its creation. No one can take our freedom from us and neither our NUKES!! You talk about deportation of Nawaz Sharif, I think your memory has failed to serve you in what happened to Shah Reza Pehalvi Last Ruler of Iran(and a citizen like Nawaz Sharif) and his family, last I remember they were not to be seen munching on Chelo Kebabs in Iran atleast.You owe an apology to each and every Pakistani for posting such an article. One last thing PAKISTAN ZINDABAD......as every Pakistani knows the meaning of this I think we are here to stay!!!!!!I think with looming attacks on I RAN I suggest U RAN!!!!
November 5, 2007 7:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 07:53
Sir
With all due respect to you it is not for a foreigner to decide wether we ought to dissolve or not, it is for the 160 million proud Pakistanis to decide their fate. Your comments will bring alot of hurt to a generation which vividly remembers the blood, toil and tears that went into its creation. No one can take our freedom from us and neither our NUKES!! You talk about deportation of Nawaz Sharif, I think your memory has failed to serve you in what happened to Shah Reza Pehalvi Last Ruler of Iran(and a citizen like Nawaz Sharif) and his family, last I remember they were not to be seen munching on Chelo Kebabs in Iran atleast.You owe an apology to each and every Pakistani for posting such an article. One last thing PAKISTAN ZINDABAD......as every Pakistani knows the meaning of this I think we are here to stay!!!!!!I think with looming attacks on I RAN I suggest U RAN!!!!
November 5, 2007 7:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 07:52
several of us have been advocating this perspective for some time. pakistan should cease to exist. it's actually a dead nation, whose corpse is kept alive by the yanks, in bizarre imitation of Lenin's corpse being kept embalmed in Moscow.
November 5, 2007 7:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 07:10
Thanks to Mr Ali Ettefagh. hope this article will open the eyes of india,afghanistan and iran governments.
November 5, 2007 6:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 06:38
Thanks to Mr Ali Ettefagh. hope this article will open the eyes of india,afghanistan and iran governments.
November 5, 2007 6:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 06:37
on second thoughts...newsweek needs some quality control. Seriously...or has the author been playing too much sim city?
November 5, 2007 6:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 06:24
Pakistan is now a real challenge for UN and the world.
The so-called West is completely unprepared. It is time to get the UN in high gear, set up a plan of sanctions on Pakistan, disarm it, and set up an orderly system of breaking up the country in two or three sensible pieces. This will isolate the terrorists and terror friendly minds and will also isolate the problem to a smaller region.
It is also beneficial for Russia and China to help along to stop terrorism as neither want this wild fire of terror expand into Central Asia.
Act Now!
November 5, 2007 5:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 05:51
The deadly message from Pakistan
Robert Fox explains why the risk of civil war in Pakistan threatens worldwide repercussions:
In his broadcast announcing Pakistan's emergency, Pervez Musharraf quoted Abraham Lincoln's famous letter of March 1864 about the need to preserve nation and government before the constitution. "Was it possible to lose the Nation and yet preserve the Constitution?" Lincoln wrote.
Musharraf, and many other Pakistanis beside, now believe his country is on the cusp of civil war.
This is the terrible point that the messages of mild condemnation from the likes of Condoleezza Rice and David Miliband have failed to convey. The prospects for the 175m Pakistanis are dreadful. And there is a deadly message too for closely associated communities and nations like Britain.
For Musharraf it is a last desperate throw. Now he has to rely on the army, which is badly split between reformers, Islamists and active supporters of the Taliban.
With pro-Taliban and pro-al-Qaeda organisations now mushrooming in the frontier provinces of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, the troubles in Pakistan will help the Taliban now fighting the British and their Nato allies across southern Afghanistan. The Taliban are making huge gains outside the traditional Pashtun areas, and deep into Punjab. Furthermore Pakistan and Iran both face a major insurrection in Baluchistan.
For Britain, the fanning of violence and tension in Pakistan is sure to have an effect among extreme Islamist sympathisers in the UK itself - the leaders of both the July 7 and 21 London bomb plots appear to have received support and training from Pakistan.
Finally, the potential implosion of Pakistan throws into strange light the obsession of Dick Cheney and supporters like Elliott Cohen for bombing Iran. Iran may get a nuclear device inside ten years - possibly. Implosion in Pakistan could lead to a Taliban regime with a nuclear arsenal up and running now. For this Bush, Brown and Sarkozy seem totally unprepared.
November 5, 2007 5:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 05:43
when was review of national structures and redrawing of borders option available. OR is this a nightmare vision of the future?
Pakistan may have been fabricated on a map by the british, but it certainly is a nation today and not an assembly of waring tribes. In 2007 most of these tribes have evolved into complex communities trying to live lives as others do on the planet. Unlike the author claims there is a well known and documented common language in the country called "Urdu". Linguistically its on far more common grounds then say multilingual and bilingual countries like Belgium and Morocco. Also I believe Irans border with Iraq must have been far more troubling than that with Pakistan.
The problem with Pakistan is not about tribes being strange bedfellows, it is persistent military intervention ever since its existence.
The silver bullet that the author is offering fails to take into account the fact that people from the north west frontier province do not want to be part of afghanistan anymore as that country has been gutted out of its soul through the years through foreign intervention.
what exactly will happen to the nuclear program after the suggested disolution is also worth pondering! will it be a quick operation like Iraq? or Afhghanistan?
I think portraying Pakistan as a bunch of waring tribes (speaking english) and sitting on nuclear bombs is way off the reality and complexties of the country.
November 5, 2007 5:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 05:30
This article is good and correct.
Send all Pakistanis to Guantanamo!
November 5, 2007 4:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 04:50
Good and clear article. Now is the time. Start with sanctions and disarm Pakistan from its nukes.
It worked with Saddam and he in fact gave up his nukes.
November 5, 2007 3:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 03:08
I came, I saw, …..I got deported from my own country!
-Nawaz Sharif
November 5, 2007 2:14 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 02:14
to EJAZ ASI
We re now in the 21st Century, not the Dark Ages. It appears that Pakistan IS STILL in the Dark Ages, given than 50% of its population think bin Laden & Co. did a good!!! thing on 9-11.
You decide whether this kind of people, 80+ million have a place in a modern world.
November 5, 2007 2:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 02:01
I have a question from Ali Ettefagh. Why didn't they burn Europe in the Dark Ages?
November 5, 2007 1:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 01:39
I have a question from Ali Ettefagh. Why didn't they burn Europe in the Dark Ages?
November 5, 2007 1:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 01:38
We agree fully with what Ali Ettefagh has written in the columns of your esteemed paper..The provinces forming part of Pakistan have ethenically nothing in common except religion which Pakistan has been using skilfully in teaching and promoting terrorism and fundamentalism. Because of these policies hundreds of innocent lives have been lost and people stand immensely perturbed. Around two lac Kashmiri Pandits have had to leave their ancestral homes and live as paupers in distant parts of India. Armed hordes are moving around in N.W.F. province and it now seems difficult to control them. It is indeed high time to think of suggestions made by Dr. Ali and to act thereon
November 5, 2007 12:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 5, 2007 00:56
I think a lot of Pakistanis are just being nationalistic and not confronting the problems in their own countries. Gen. Musharraf came to power in 1999 by overthrowing the government in a military coup. Just he was supposed to step down, he has declared a state of emergency, suspending judiciary, arresting hundreds of people and literally placing the country under a police state. I am surprised that not only there is no condemnation of this from the Pakistani people here but they are actually defending this state of affairs. Pakistan has a lot of serious problems and they need to be addressed before its too late. What I see here is simply a lot of jingoistic talk and utter reluctance to face up to the facts.
November 4, 2007 9:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 21:19
Sorry for pointing this minor error by one of the commenters:
Wrong: "India has 14 major languages ..."
Correct:
India has 22+-2 Major languages (recognized by govt), 415/425 living languages are listed in Ethanologue for India. And each of them consists of many dialects.
My mother tongue "Tamil" itself has 16 dialects.
Reference: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=in
November 4, 2007 9:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 21:17
Sorry for pointing this minor error by one of the commenters:
Wrong: "India has 14 major languages ..."
Correct:
India has 21 Major languages (recognized by govt), 425 living languages are listed in Ethanologue for India. And each of them consists of many dialects.
My mother tongue "Tamil" itself has 16 dialects.
Reference: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=in
November 4, 2007 9:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 21:16
I believe India should capitalize on the weakened Pakistan situation and break it up. We can witness another Bangladesh kind of situation here. I believe broken up Pakistan is good for India as the individual provinces will not be anti-India. I believe Pakistan and India can never have peace. Hence it is better to break up Pakistan.
I believe if you have smaller states then the radical Islamic idealogy will not propagate. The local cultures of the people will create more stable states rather than integrating them through Islam.
November 4, 2007 7:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 19:58
There is one more important issue about Pakistan totally missed in the article. When Pakistan was created some Indian Muslims from the state of Uttar Pradesh (UP) migrated to Pakistan. These people are called Mujahirs in Pakistan and they only speak Urdu language. They actually don't belong to the any of the provinces of Pakistan but these people control Pakistan today. They constitute 8% of Pakistani population. Even the idea of independence for Indian Muslims came from UP Muslims not from the five provinces of present day Pakistan.
Today Pakistan's national language is Urdu (spoken by 6% to 8% of the population at the time of independence) and these Mujahirs propagate Islamic nation agenda as it provides them control over the tribal provinces. Even Musharaff is a Mujahir he was born in UP, India. Adding to this Pakistan's main commercial capital Karachi is completely controlled by Muhajirs. This minority population from India are effectively controlling Pakistan today.
Indian state of UP has a tendency to produce both good and bad leaders. Most of the India's prime ministers are from UP. An example of a bad leader is Iran's Khomeni was also born in UP.
November 4, 2007 6:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 18:41
Imperialism does not work.
The Big Powers formed and dismembered nations. Of course, they were immune from this barbarism. How would the USA or the UK like it if the Congo decided that it should cut the USA into smaller segments with each one being a state. Europe and Africa consist of smaller nations so why isn't that OK for the USA?
The USA was the force that gave rise to ISrael. The Jews came from Europe, where they had lived for centuries, to claim their right to the Holy Land. This meant that the Arabs and Palestinians were dispossessed. IN other words, the West felt entitled to create Israel at the expense of others whose wishes were ignored. That was cruel.
Wherever and whenever new nations have been formed, Africa, South and Central America, Asia, Europe etc it was done in rooms in Paris. The West carved up the world. The selfish consequence has been festering turmoil.
November 4, 2007 6:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 18:37
Imperialism does not work.
The Big Powers formed and dismembered nations. Of course, they were immune from this barbarism. How would the USA or the UK like it if the Congo decided that it should cut the USA into smaller segments with each one being a state. Europe and Africa consist of smaller nations so why isn't that OK for the USA?
The USA was the force that gave rise to ISrael. The Jews came from Europe, where they had lived for centuries, to claim their right to the Holy Land. This meant that the Arabs and Palestinians were dispossessed. IN other words, the West felt entitled to create Israel at the expense of others whose wishes were ignored. That was cruel.
Wherever and whenever new nations have been formed, Africa, South and Central America, Asia, Europe etc it was done in rooms in Paris. The West carved up the world. The selfish consequence has been festering turmoil.
November 4, 2007 6:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 18:36
Pakistan is a failed state - no doubt about that. It has become the center of international jihadi terror network and Al-Qaeda has finally found a safe-haven in Pakistan. The only way to counter al-qaeda, taleban and other jihadi networks is to dissolve pakistan. With that the Pakistan army will dissolve and so will the international islamic terror networks.
November 4, 2007 6:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 18:33
The proclamation of Emergency (under Article 232) has not been issued by the President but by the COAS Mr.Musharraf this very act tantamounts to treason under Articel 6 of the Constitution . This is Sixth martial law since independence of Pakistan , a state under virtual hostage of Millitary , attained a uniqye reputation for criminal Millitary - Mullah nexus with impeccable record of Nuke peaddling and threatening global peace and stability . Pakistan is a byproduct of Great Game I to contain Russian Southern march and If one recollect Tariq Aziz words -- Pakistan is a condom State. Yes it all happened because Millitary which sold the soul of the nation to enrich themselves . Pakistan is an illusion and it will meltdown and regional powers and International powers should quarantine all it's nuclear assets , INCLUDING NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS .
November 4, 2007 5:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 17:27
I commend Dr.Ettefagh for suggesting a bold solution to the quagmire that is modern day Pakistan.
Even if the Military State masquerading as a Nation is not entirely dismembered, assigning to Afghanistan only the Pashtun dominant areas, which range from Chitral in the Northern Areas to Quetta [Balochistan] in the south will go a long way in ensuring, not only the survival of Pakistan but also a more prosperous Afghanistan.
November 4, 2007 3:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 15:45
I would echo same opinion as Saeed Mehr. Mr Ali Ettefagh should rather keep his tongue shut b/w the canines. He should perhaps be more worried about his native Tehran whose policies keep on ringing alarm bells in all world capitals!
November 4, 2007 2:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 14:14
my sincere advice to Ali Ettefagh is to shut up and keep his thoughts to himself.
November 4, 2007 2:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 14:00
A strikingly original opinion and absolutely correct.
Pakistan is a political anomaly and should go or perhaps be absorbed into Afghanistan.
November 4, 2007 1:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 13:59
my sincere advice to Ali Ettefagh is to shut up and keep his thoughts to himself.
November 4, 2007 1:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 13:59
K2,
Answer to your question at 8:03 a.m. -- every idiot thinks that he is King Solomon. There is a dispute about whose baby it really is. Chop the baby in two!
Except that idiots can't have the wisdom of King Solomon. When the real mother said "better give the baby to the other woman", King Solomon understood.
Not so, Mr. Ettefagh! There are many, many Pakistanis out there (and I hope that a post-crackdown, chastened Musharraf are among them, togeher with Benazir and Ashfaq Kiani and Maulana Fazlur Rahman as well as other well-reasoned opinion-leaders) who will be willing to make the necessary sacrifices to marginalise and neutralise extremists, to encourage the army to be a little more confined to the barracks and make room for dynamic entrepreneurs to engage in land-holding and business, to set the example for a vigorous anti-corruption drive (*starting with Asif ali Zardari!), to carry forward the education and other godd reforms that Musharraf has started. Maybe the Musharraf/Benazir coalition may still hold and maybe a wisened (but then REALLY wisened and less muscle-flexing) Musharraf can be given a year as President to collaborate with Beanazir and Kiani to crack down on extremsists, it being understood, after those 12 months, that Musharraf will bow out, the PM Benazir (if she hasmeanwhile proven her mettle) will have considerable executive powers, but with adequate checks-and-balances powers given to the judiciary and legislative-and-administrative branches of government.
The agenda is still doable, but the military-rule move has made it harder.
November 4, 2007 11:39 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 11:39
Great article.
The fact taht more than 50% of 169 million Pakistanis are in favour of Osama bin Laden is enough cause on its own.
November 4, 2007 11:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 11:31
Completely agree with this author. Well said.
Paks brought us the taliban, nukes, and a sham. There is no democracy, no human rights and no future for that mess. carve it up!
November 4, 2007 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 11:18
dear mr ettefagh,
please worry about the impending doom about iran's nuclear fantasy.we had respect for reasonable Iranians and would but the problem is post global gave space to a man who has missed his daily dose of lithium.Psychosis mixed with mania is beyond home care.God bless Iran.
November 4, 2007 11:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 11:02
Excellency Dr. Ettefagh,
Another solution is to create a United States of India (U.S.I.), with a federal system of governance in line with the United States of America, of course, with minor adjustments to local character, social and political invoironment. Punjab and Sindh can then join the U.S.I. South Asia can be stabilised if India gets a fresh, healthy, new, progressive, strong and democratic constitution and eliminates corruption in all its forms.
India could become a very stabilising force in Asia and the world, provided it fights, controls and prevent religious extremism in all its manifistations and expressions, particularly Hindu nationalism and extremism, which has been and is the biggest enemy of India and has led to its disintegration and colonisation many times in the history of that nation. It has prevented India from becoming a strong nation state compared to China, the Indians have performed relatively very short.
Muslims of Indian subcontinent (half of it in today's Pakistan) should be very greatful to the Afghans who saved them from Hindu slavery many times in the past. Everytime Afghanistan invaded India (12 times), it was mostly to defend Muslim minorities in India against the Hindu extremists. It was also the AFGHANS that defeated the Soviet Russia, British Colonialists and slave owners, not to mentions the Arabs, the Turks and the Moguls, who could never subjugate or control Afghan territories.
The Hindus should be greatful to the Afghan people and great Kings, such as King Amanullah Khan, who supported the independence of India and the freedom of its people. Remember that Afghanistan is (1747) one of the first nation states in the world after the French Revolution, when the concept of nation states was introduced into the political dictionary of the world. It has played a leading role against colonisation, imperialism and communism, for which it has also payed and sacrificed very heavily. Afghanistan has never been colonised and defeated all foreign invaders and colonisers through the history of the region.
India's biggest, historical, strategic and political mistake in regards to Afghanistan was when it chose to keep quite about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the U.N.G.A. in 1979, ignoring the illegal occupation of its historical neighbor which had wholeheartedly supported it against the British colonisers. India later supported a totalitarian puppet communist murderous regime in Afghanistan and continues to side with the most criminal forces in Afghanistan, such as the Northern Alliance, who were raping Hindu and Sihk women in Kabul (1992--1996) and who were destroying Afghanistan from the ground and that India knew it, but prefered to shut its mouth, eyes and ears.
The Cold War balancing act of India is not pleasant or briliant, but to a great extent very destructive for Afghanistan and the subcontinent.
The mistakes of India was a big shock and disappointment for the majority Pashtuns of Afghanistan, to some extent for the West, who now felt allienated from India. This mistake of India provided the Paki Punjabi Terrorist Army with the biggest opportunity to defeat the nationalist and progressive forces among the Pashtuns, Balochs and other supressed and opressed nationalities in the colonial entity of Pakistan. As a result, the NWFP and Balochistan are virtually in the hands of Punjabi, Pashtun and a few Baloch extremists.
It radicalised the politics of Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) and the bloodsucking generals of Paki Army, who are dreaming of a Punjabi Impire, are all the products of Indian mistakes, which unfortunately can not play the role of a wise Mother India.
Reintegration at all levels of the society is the key for peace in South Asia. It could be ethnic, religious, cultural, political, geographical, economic etc.
I wish the Pakistani commentators on this forum behave a bit constructive and not jumping to the gun, which has become the culutre of the Pakistanis. When the Gun is not enough, I'm sure, you will jump to your nukes, which freightens me very much.
Momand
November 4, 2007 10:59 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:59
The British creation of Pakistan resembles verbatim the "new Middle East" envisioned by the most ignorant, and retarded of American presidentes. Fortunately, his administration will come to an end, unfortunately...not soon enough. The best part is that the new president WILL NOT BE a Repo.
November 4, 2007 10:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:31
The history of Pakistan contained in this article does not go back far enough. To consider Pakistan a product of British imperialism doesn't describe the area well enough; it could be just as easily described as a set of tribes that go as far back as Mongol and Islamic imperialism. The British attempt to create a nation-state from seventy or eighty tribal enclaves did not take into account the need for a semi-totalitarian central authority that is needed to begin a transition to any form of democratic justice in a region. Many of these tribal enclaves work with the Taliban types because the clans themselves do not want a government they individually can’t control through some from of totalitarian minority (the traditional form of power). What might be more in the interest of the Pakistani tribes IS a form of totalitarian authority that exists for at least two generations that does not permit the tribal aggression accentuated by primitive religious ideas to endanger the ‘normal’ citizens of Pakistan.
November 4, 2007 10:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:17
It is true that Pakistan's location next to Afghanistan is problematic. The fact that the border between these countries cuts through historically unified cultural areas doesn't help. And the fact that the areas thus cut-though are inhabited by relatively wild and well-armed mountain tribes is also a problem.
The diversity of traditions and languages in Pakistan, however, is not a characteristic of Pakistan alone. It is mirrored by the same diversity within the many states which constitute India itself.
There was, indeed, a strong indigenous desire and political movement among the religious-nationalist intellectual Muslims of British India to establish a Muslim state.
Jinnah, Iqbal and Maududi (born between 1876 and 1903) were the great leaders of this movement.
And please bear in mind that Gandhi was killed by a (misguided) Muslim nationalist.
So it was not just an arbitrary or ill-considered afterthought for Britain to establish a separate Muslim state.
One could imagine that even within a unified greater India, the majority Muslim states, which today constitute Pakistan, would have presented this unified greater India with the same problems.
November 4, 2007 10:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:16
I really agree with this writer. Well researched piece and facts. Most of the British fantasies have failed in any case around the world. Something should be done with this terror sate called Pakistan before it blows the world.
November 4, 2007 10:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:04
Good idea, TOOLATE.
November 4, 2007 10:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 10:00
I find Dr. Ettefagh's short version of Pakistan's origin to be highly revised. Any reading of late Raj history indicates that the British were absolutely opposed to the concept of partitioning India (the notion of providing any part of India any bit of independence was controversial). Dr. Ettefagh is certainly correct that having a majority population was a major factor in allocating East Bengal to Pakistan once partition was inevitable, but an attempt to provide some amount of economic parity between India and Pakistan was another. And the notion that Pakistan was established as a pro-Western counter to India's pro-Soviet leanings is pure fiction- the desire and concept of Pakistan predates cold war politics by two decades.
The birth of Pakistan was far from British fantasy- it was a British nightmare born of oppressive colonialism and a desire of Muslims for self-rule. Pakistan has a myriad of problems, and to revise its history places those problems in a false context and hampers efforts to fix them.
November 4, 2007 9:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 09:42
In this moment, the paradigm democratic of the west go been contest in the many countries. The instituitions europeans was carried for many countries by imperialists and colonialists reasons. I think that very good if all countries of the worl become nations where the peace and democracy were the maxim law. But its do they like. This is fact and Condolize Rice and USA have not legitimate for change this reality.
November 4, 2007 9:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 09:22
Interesting piece, but some of the history is missing, e.g., Ali Jinnah and the All India Muslim League.
Although many ills in the world today are laid at the feet of former European Colonialists—justifiably—they could not have acted thusly without the aid of the many self-serving indigenous people (PLO, are you listening?).
Pakistan is an independent nation-state today for many reasons; chief among them though is the hardheaded sponsorship of such a state by Ali Jinnah and the All India Muslim League (much to Gandhi’s consternation).
And, finally, could we all please stop with “should not have been in the first place” of many policy apologists and deal with the “what we’ve got now” reality of the various international imbroglios around the world. I am not suggesting we ignore history, rather I am suggesting we incorporate it to new solutions and new pathways that are radically different from the status quo and fit better with the tapistry of people and customs that exist today.
Let’s end the constant abuse of historical context (aka hysterical context) in order to prop up newly burnished forms of the old. A shift in our thinking might actually aide in progress rather than the constant one step forward, three steps backward that exist in the multitude of global hotspots that exist in our post Cold War era.
November 4, 2007 9:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 09:16
Pakistan is proven to be a rip-off. Time to bust it up and create a more transparent system. If that means dissolution, there is nothing wrong with that. Are Czechs and Slovaks better off than 20 years ago? Are the Yugoslavs in a better shape for the most part?
The fact is Pakistan is dangerous. It has become the hub of terrorists that hijack planes and run it into buildings. The $10 billion in U.S. aid over the last 7 years has been wasted. They have no true intentions to have democracy and now have martial law. Time for sanctions, restrictions, disarming of nukes and setting up a UN protectorate and break up! Game over boys!!
November 4, 2007 8:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:45
Totally agree with the writer. There are many similar cases though. In fact, the colonial powers in the ME established several Arab countries. Jordan and Iraq and Saudi Arabia were established by Britain, Syria and Lebanon by France.
November 4, 2007 8:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:43
Oh my, this essay spawned an interesting debate, and made me recollect a lot of history. After some contemplation, I decided to agree with the commentators who ask "What about Iran?". Which in term, reminds me of an old saying: If you live in a house made of glass, do not throw with rocks....
Sorry Ettefagh, let's form a comission to carve up Iran as well.
November 4, 2007 8:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:38
Dissolve hatred mongers all over the world;no matter who and how stronger they are.Pakistan is again run over by military.Tell USA to outrighly oppose it.Or,think of dissolving all those countries which create disturbances in other countries;overtly and covertly.
November 4, 2007 8:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:27
THE ARTICLE IS A CHEAP SHOT AND WISHFUL THINKING OF DR ALI ETTEFAGH. HE BETTER BE ADVISED TO WRITE ON INVESTMENT SUBJECT IN WHICH AREA HE IS SUPPOSED TO THRIVE.
November 4, 2007 8:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:24
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
November 4, 2007 8:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:07
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
November 4, 2007 8:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:03
The answer to the problems facing Pakistan is to break up the country???
November 4, 2007 8:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:03
We can settle the nature vs nurture debate to a great extent by following the birth, growth and development of India & Pakistan.
One nation was divided into two parts.In the beginning their problems were alomost similar. The framework each adopted to solve their problems were different. One was formed on religious identity and other even after divison decided to be secular and inclusive.
There was a recognization in the beginnig by Nehru that religion as a national identity cannot hold a country together. Growth and equality could.
India invested in its institutions, the framework for Governance, sometimes those frameowrk were so fragile that it looked a strong wind would just blow it away but it survived.
Pakistan's political leadership (Jinnah included) was myopic at its best. The idea that a country can be held together by religious identity. They never invested in any frameworks of Governance. Even after 60 years. We don't realize that they have lost all these years. What happens after Musharraf is gone ? There isn't any national institutions which exists there today. We cannot say same about India. They have a vibrant democracy, number of political parties and some brilliant leadership at top.
To sum it up, they were almost nurtured in same set of variables but it was in their nature that they ended up where they are today.
Pakistan a failed state, India a hope.
November 4, 2007 8:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:02
Why all of Pakistani posters above continue to deflect answering the question and jump on Iran, USA, the author, religion, etc.?
Why not consider alternative ways. If the entire "nation" of Pakistan was really in harmony and unity, why have all these bombings, coups, deportation of previous politicians and Al Qaeda and Madrasa hate-teaching centres?
November 4, 2007 8:00 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 08:00
It is matter of great shame that this Article is from a muslim if that would have been from some Indian then v would have said that It is prejuidice but shame
shame
shame
shame
shame for hurting feelings of all Pakistan
why not dissolve India where people are fighting for Independence against tyrant Indian regime
why not dissolve Afghanistan which is home for terrorists
Shame on you
November 4, 2007 7:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:54
"Pakistani Military & civil bureaucrats" who are denying power to the people, are the grand-sons of those muslims,who were boot-polishers, sepoy, peon and clerks of British Raj in India. They became Mohajers in Pakistan and are ruling the land.
The greed of power has created racism among different ethnic groups. Mohajers hate Panjabis and Sindhis, Panjabis hate Balochs and Pashtun hate Mohajirs and etc. etc.
Pakistan is a fail State and it is divided among
different "ethnic groups". It`s broken on moral basis. It needs a kick to break the country ......before the confiscation of her WMD and destroy her nuclear facilities as it poses a great threat to the people of Pakistan, South Asian Countries and the whole world.
www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com
November 4, 2007 7:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:44
some factors are true about pakistan , and some are false any way what else we are pakistani and we only need God blessing from all muslim to upgrade us in good way. God bless us always and get rid from those elements who damaging our religion, culture and our country. ameen
November 4, 2007 7:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:43
"Pakistani Military & civil bureaucrats" who are denying power to the people, are the grand-sons of those muslims,who were boot-polishers, sepoy, peon and clerks of British Raj in India. They became Mohajers in Pakistan and are ruling the land.
The greed of power has created racism among different ethnic groups. Mohajers hate Panjabis and Sindhis, Panjabis hate Balochs and Pashtun hate Mohajirs and etc. etc.
Pakistan is a fail State and it is divided among
different "ethnic groups". It`s broken on moral basis. It needs a kick to break the country ......before the confiscation of her WMD and destroy her nuclear facilities as it poses a great threat to the people of Pakistan, South Asian Countries and the whole world.
www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com
November 4, 2007 7:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:43
Very interesting article, very interesting concept that deserves praise. You should watch "Kabul Express" to understand what is going on in the region. Maybe it will all make sense then.
November 4, 2007 7:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:40
WHY NOT DISSOLVE IRAN?
WHY NO DISSOLVE AFGHANISTAN?
WHY NO DISSOLVE INDIA?
LIST PAKISTANIS WE HAVE TO BREAK UP WHY? BECUASE OUR DEAR MR. ETTFAGH CANT MAKE SENSE OF OUR COUNTRY. SO LETS NOT GIVE HIME MORE TROUBLE AND SPLIT UP.
WHAT IF HE CANT STILL MAKE SENSE OF OUR EXISTENSE?
November 4, 2007 7:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:30
DESOLVE U.S.A THAT WILL BETTER FOR WHOLE WORLD
November 4, 2007 7:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:18
"There is no commonly accepted language among these tribes and thus the official language of Pakistan is English."
Speaks a lot about authors knowledge of Pakistan.URDU is Pakistans national language and very well spoken across the coutry.
If language argument is accepted then Iran and Afghanistan also deserve to be dissolved as they dont have one common language.
November 4, 2007 7:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:10
I am sure after reading the responses from Pakistani’s now this should open your eyes that Pakistani’s are a proud nation regardless of ethnicity.
READER IN EUROPE: there are conflicts in Europe isn’t it time for ya’ll give basq’s etc independence. WHY in perfect democratic Europe you got conflict such as Basq’s??
Pakistan got stable economy. US had given only military aid to Pakistan. With all our differences we the PAKISTANI’S are ONE PROUD NATION.
November 4, 2007 7:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:05
I just got out of Pakistan. It is hell on earth since yesterday's de facto coup. Very strict controls on communication with outside, most TV and radio stations are shut, foreigners under strict control.
Sorry President Bush, but you just got stabbed in the back by some one that fooled you as a friend.
November 4, 2007 7:05 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:05
I don't know why Pakistan has become a night mare for all the evil countries of the world.People like the one who wrote this article are making their livelihood by writing against Pakistan.World should be grateful to Pkistan for ending the cold war otherwisw their would have been more blood shed around the world.Pakistani people and soldiers along with their Afghan brothers fought and sacrificed their lives to end the bloody era of cold war.Now world needs Pakistan again.You can not tackle 1 country Pakistan then how can you deal with 4 Pakistans if provinces are independent.We are 1 nation with 1 language URDU and rich cultural and social diversities.There are more than 40 languages in Pakistan.You should think to save your ass first before writing a word agianst anybody else.Its Pakistan who has supported you in nuclear field and now Iran is showing eyes to America.You believe it or not whole world knows about it and you got no right to write such articles when your own people dying of hunger torture and sanctions.
November 4, 2007 7:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 07:03
Good article and a bold way of thinking out loud. Pakistan is now what Afghanistan used to be a few years ago, and that is dangerous.
November 4, 2007 6:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:58
Hey Mr. Rationalist first learn to READ and WRITE proper English. Then learn some manners and then return in about 10 years when you have lost your zits and gained some maturity!!!!!
November 4, 2007 6:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:51
Please do not use personal attacks and offensive comments in a civilized forum like this or any other. Take it easy. It is just a debate however dearly you feel about it. It's not like your the President of Pakistan about to be able to do somehting about it.
Leave everything aside. The basis on which the country was founded and the tribal and other divisions and the many other factors that are a feature of not only this but also of all other nations. Nations will either evolve over time into being something better or dissolve and destroy themselves.
If for now, a group of Pakistanis irrespective of their tribal and racial affiliations can come togther here on this forum (at least one from each province) and convince the readers that Pakistan can and will be, we should see some hope for the future.
And I do apologize for the multiple postings of my previous comment.
November 4, 2007 6:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:47
Dr. Ali Ettefagh has written very well about Pakistan. Redrawing the boundaries would aggravate the problem rather than solving it.. No body would have taken cognizance of developments bit for the 9/11 and the nuclear weapons they possess.
November 4, 2007 6:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:45
Since 9-11, the United States has given more than $10 billion to Pakistan to fight terrorists. We want a complete report on what has happened to our money, where is the promised democracy in Pakistan, where is bin Laden and why is it that PAkistan is not letting NATO forces to operate from its territory?
November 4, 2007 6:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:37
No doubt what the author says is true and can be agreed on about Pakistian. But his solutuon to dissolve the Pakistani State into independent provinces is no solution at all. It will only mean that many times as problems as there are now faced by this one single failed state. I think that there is still hope for the Pakistanis to get their act together. Look on the positive side of things. When they want to they can all come together and develop something as advanced as nuclear technology. Now all they need to do is to apply that thinking to social engineering, eradication of poverty and other benefical programs rather than be on an un-ending warpath with one another.
November 4, 2007 6:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:29
It amazes me that how much vitriolic Verbiage and verbigeration of same message of pure hatred is being salvosed to Dr.Ettefagh. That it self proves that He is right and talking on the premise of truth. He struck a serious blow to the heart of Pakistanis Prides. Though their pride systems based on false identity and false nation hood - because they have no real National identity. Pakistan is an aberration of History, and has no solid foundation. In this perspective this nation is bound to fall and to disintegrate.
There are also a concerted serious effort to Drag India in to their own created hell hole? But such attempts have failed miserably.
So called Pakistanis, should know that, The Baluchis, and Sindhi's are not keen at all to join Your Band Wagon of so called Pakistan- Nation Hood. Rather they will prefer to create their own Identity of Nation- Hoods, I men- they wants their own home lands -Baluchistan and Sindhistan. They are heading [ Marching] on that direction, and You fellas can not stop it.
The question of India? India doesn't want the existence of Terrorist and Fundamentalist Islamic nation called-**Pakistan**, at her door step. Better She prefers that this abominable monster should die as quickly as possible.
You may think that Your borrowed Nuke -missiles and A-Bomb will deter your enemy to harm you or attack you? But in civil war situation as is now exists in your country will not be affected by your **Fear Weapons**. If that is so , then why Soviet was broken down even She had more Nuke war Heads than USA??
I tell you what India will do- Hindus will support Baluchis and Sindhi's with all logistic and hard ware supports, so that these fellows will succeed. By chance if you contemplate of striking preemptivly on India? With your will- gotten N-Devices? then make sure that India has Antimissile defence system, installed already and with which She will safe gourd Hes self, we call it self reliance.
Then what role Uncle Sam will play? In my View He had enough in dealing with you Terrorist Entity, and this time SAM will not save you from the gutter -where you are stuck now.
The Question- what Uncle Sam's Position in this respect today?? Sam doesn't feel comfortable with You fellas, and you failed delver what he wanted and you fellas again back bitten Him, betrayed Him. So you guys have lost all credibility. A bigger game is brewing up in the Horizon, I mean rise of China and her influence on SEA, which Sam feels threat, and that is why America going to make Nuke Dill with India, In that respect you Pakistani fellas have lost credibility platform, and you can't bargain any more.
November 4, 2007 6:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:24
And how is this dissolution going to occur? Magic wand?
November 4, 2007 6:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 06:12
This article is about Pakistan, not about personal attacks on the author or Iran.
The writer is correct to say that the original plan/design did not work and there is no democracy or a continuing political process in Pakistan. If the interests of several tribal groups create a conflict rather harmony, then it is time to separate them and let them have their own system and as the last sentence indicates, a more clear political agenda will be the result.
November 4, 2007 5:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 05:53
Mr. Ali Ettefagh
You appear to be tolerant about the purchases made by Iran from Dr A Q Khan, May be it for some toy making. You got Clergy in power and we are resisting it.
What a standard of democracy you have. Candidate has to pass through religious cults test.
Why don't you see inside your country.
November 4, 2007 5:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 05:52
It is an old stinking curry of Ralph Peters which Mr Ali is trying to put on boil again. Some time ago, Ralph Peters in persuasion of Greater Middle East Plan of United States, suggested to redraw the borders of Middle and south East Asia in the name of uniting the ‘Blood Brothers’; i.e. when British left Middle East, very deceitfully they divided Kurd lands into four parts and handed over to Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran. He suggested that Kurds be united and new country be carved. He suggested the same ----in regards to areas of Greater Baluchistan and Afghanistan.
Although in the wake of US Global War on Terror, Pakistan being a front state is passing through some very testing times and is in untenable situation; but by Grace of Allah, peoples of Pakistan are steadfast, strong and united to face such challenges. Mr Ali should not worry much about Pakistan rather he should spend his energies to put his own house…Iran in order.
November 4, 2007 5:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 05:44
I shall try to be brief. Pakistan is imploding because of the negative mindset and instilling hatred into heads and hearts - for the “other”. Hatred is bad in all shades. There is a lesson to learn from this. Fascist R.S.S would do to India what the Mullah did to Pakistan. HATE SPEECH must invite capital punishment. Perpetrators of MOB VIOLENCE (Riots / Genocide / Holocaust) must be hanged. A clear message has to be sent. You cant have Law and Hatred together. Babu Bajrangi and Narendra Modi are criminals of Humanity. One cant be selective on this. A society can live without religion, but not without justice.
Hatred / Hate Speech / Mob Violence / Genocide / Holaust AND the concept of Law / Civilised society cannot go hand in hand. The history of R.S.S acts since 1925.. its role in the riots are fully documented and needs to be exposed. For how long can one close his / her eyes to this Factory of Hatred ?
Tks for your time.
Mohan
November 4, 2007 5:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 05:41
Mr Robert: Before rattling on please note that a million people scarfised their lives back in '47 to leave hindu dominated areas of India for Pakistan. Even now in this so called secular India, thousands of Muslims, and Sikhs have lost their lives at the hand of hindu mobs.
November 4, 2007 4:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 04:15
I certainly didn't expect such an illogical & biased post on Washingtonpost.
November 4, 2007 4:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 04:07
By Mr Ettefagh logic most most authoritarian countries should be disbanded because they haven't been able to become democracies. And who should actually redraw these boundaries ??
Giving these remote tribal areas Independence would allow the extremist to overcome some of them. That is asking for more trouble. Pakistan needs to modernize economically and democratize. That is the only solution.
A factual error in the article is that there is no common language. There is more in common between the provinces of Pakistan than the provinces of India. Urdu is the national language of Pakistan. Most Pakistanis speak Urdu in addition to their local language. English is the official language of India.
According to the article Opium is produced in Afganistan and some how it is Pakistan's fault that Opium is transited through it... Bye the way, it is said that a lot of Opium is transited through Iran as well.
November 4, 2007 3:57 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:57
I am highly surprised that you would have such a critical viewpoint of Pakistan when in the global scheme of things Pakistan has played a positive role whereas other countries have dropped the ball. Yes, Pakistan suffers from many problems, however do not blame the people of Pakistan for the mistakes of one individual who has, well, we all know what he's done. Pay attention, fortune favors the bold and there will be permanent changes in the land of the pure soon.
November 4, 2007 3:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:51
I find Mr. Ettefagh's article quite amusing, he appears to have a superficial knowledge of pakistan. 14 insurgencies are going on in india and 160 districts according to its prime minister are out of control. There is serious trouble in my other countries. That does not mean the country should be broken up. It is the Usa which has caused division and destruction in iraq and begangstan and is poised to create trouble o iran. Much of the troubled conditions in pakistan are due to american intervention and coercive tactics. Pakistan intrinsically is a stout country which can look after its self he only the americans do not support a dictatorial regime. Inayatullah
Columnist, Pakistan
November 4, 2007 3:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:51
Mr Ettefagh needs to do homework before writing such rubbish. First the tribal system in Pakistan only exist in border areas of Afghanistan and Iran, and that accounts to less than 1% of Pakistan's land area. Secondly, Pakistan was never a British "Fantasy" in fact the British did everything possible to prevent its creation, case in point the unresolved issue of Kashmir. More than a million people scarified their lives to achieve the dream of this independent Muslim state.
In fact it is Iran and it’s Mullahs that are the real source of instability in the region. They have actively supported extremist shia groups in Pakistan since the '70s creating instability and hatred. Even now they're openly funding the Taliban and other extremist and nationalist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan not to mention Iraq!
November 4, 2007 3:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:50
I am highly surprised that you would have such a critical viewpoint of Pakistan when in the global scheme of things Pakistan has played a positive role whearas other countries have dropped the ball. Yes, Pakistan suffers from many problems, however do not blame the people of Pakistan for the mistakes of one individual who has well, we all know what he's done. Pay attention, fortune favors the bold and there will be permanent changes in the land of the pure soon.
November 4, 2007 3:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:50
As a Pakistani I am extremely surprised and disappointed that the Washington post actually published such a load of trash.
"Dissolve Pakistan" ?!?!, there are a million problems with my country, as their are with many other countries. Most of the problems have actually been created due to a one-sided alliance with the US, which has used Pakistan for short term gains, leaving our country in the state it is now. but dissolving a country isn't really a solution. Mr. Ettefagh seems have a over simplified view of our history and overly simplified solution.
I little thought before you go on rambling about other peoples HOMELAND would be appreciated. An editor might be a good idea too!
November 4, 2007 3:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:40
General Musharraf on, 12th October 1999, has usurped power in a coup against the civil government. The aforementioned action was extra-constitutional, which was though not appreciated but reluctantly accepted by people of Pakistan for time being with this hope that Gen. Musharraf would hold free and fair election and reinstate democracy within the time frame of 3 years as given by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Following his predecessors military rulers, he extended his rule by holding infamous referendum and proclaiming himself as the elected president. In elections 2002, his political stooges and sycophants could not get a simple majority to form a government even after rigging the elections, so he threatened and offered political inducements to the elected parliamentarians of other political parties in order to form the government of his choice. These ugly politics worked well and he eventually succeeded in forming a tamed government. The motive of all these extra-constitutional actions and politically maneuvering were to serve his vested interests and to keep the highest political post of President and military post of chief of the army staff, simultaneously. In 2002, he did not call the first session of the national assemble till the time he was assured that the notorious 17th amendment would be passed by the parliament. In order to achieve his self-serving mission, he played an ugly game not only with political alliance MMA but also with the whole nation by making a false pledge that he would shed his uniform on 31 December, 2004, which he had not fulfilled till today. Once again on the 3rd of November 2007, when he felt that power might go away from him, he has made a second coup and imposed Martial Law without any genuine grounds under the shadow of emergency. To keep the highest political office of president, he once again with the help of army generals derailed the process of democracy, which should not be despised but must be condemned, strongly.
This time, he committed a despicable crime by attacking the supremacy, integrity and independence of judiciary, which they were showing first time in the history of Pakistan. He tried to undermine their independence and integrity by accusing them that they were taking decisions in the favor of terrorist. Like 9th March 2007, once again he openly attacked on the independence of judiciary by changing the Chief Justice and removing senior judges who refused to accept his new Provision Constitutional Order. In his speech, he charged them for interfering in the matters of the executives and encouraging terrorist, which is completely absurd accusation.
The fact is that his poor leadership, ugly political tactics and poor policies have increased number of bomb blasts, enhanced frustration and alienation among people, and weaken integration of the federation - not the judicial decisions. Undoubtedly, he attacked on the judiciary because, in the hindsight, he got scared that the Supreme Court of Pakistan might declare recent presidential elections null and void and not allow him to contest presidential election for the next two years. Hence, he imposed emergency or martial law before the announcement of the decision of the Supreme Court. It is a fact that if the Supreme Court had barred him from contesting presidential election, it would have been accordance with the country’s constitution in which it is clearly stated that public servants during service cannot participate in politics. It is evident from his midnight speech on 4th November, 2004 that he is perturbed on the Supreme Court decisions that have gone or will go against him and his corrupt acolytes, therefore, he has now initiated media trial against the judiciary.
The recent proclamation of Martial Law and suspension of 1973 constitution shows that he is power hungry and can go up to any extent to keep it. He does not have any respect for any institution that takes a stand against his rule. Musharraf is a self proclaimed hero who has never won any war - neither as a solider nor as a president. As a solider he miserably failed in Kargil and as a political leader he failed in integrating the nation.
For the sake of country existence, provincial integration, democracy, independence of the judiciary and other institutions, we must strongly demand that Gen. Musharraf must step down as President and Chief of the Army Staff forthwith and immediately announce interim government that holds free and fair elections within three months.
Please sign this petition to support that we all want genuine (not controlled) democracy in Pakistan and disallow any army role in the national politics.
Sign petition here
http://www.petitiononline.com/demo07/petition.html
November 4, 2007 3:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:28
After reading Mr.Ettefagh's post, it seems he is way off the mark and his senses. as a pakistani who has lived and prospered in this country all my life of 60 years. I can say that maybe we had our share of misfortunes but certainly there is no dearth of national spirit in the masses. it is the military that has played the part of the mercenary of the US and destroyed this proud nation of 160 million souls.
About Iran,the less said the better. remember when Zahedi was leading the coup to reinstall a puppet monarch at the instigation of a world power. Read CIA.Iranian morale and its currency was penny a million.
November 4, 2007 3:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:08
General Musharraf on, 12th October 1999, has usurped power in a coup against the civil government. The aforementioned action was extra-constitutional, which was though not appreciated but reluctantly accepted by people of Pakistan for time being with this hope that Gen. Musharraf would hold free and fair election and reinstate democracy within the time frame of 3 years as given by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Following his predecessors military rulers, he extended his rule by holding infamous referendum and proclaiming himself as the elected president. In elections 2002, his political stooges and sycophants could not get a simple majority to form a government even after rigging the elections, so he threatened and offered political inducements to the elected parliamentarians of other political parties in order to form the government of his choice. These ugly politics worked well and he eventually succeeded in forming a tamed government. The motive of all these extra-constitutional actions and politically maneuvering were to serve his vested interests and to keep the highest political post of President and military post of chief of the army staff, simultaneously. In 2002, he did not call the first session of the national assemble till the time he was assured that the notorious 17th amendment would be passed by the parliament. In order to achieve his self-serving mission, he played an ugly game not only with political alliance MMA but also with the whole nation by making a false pledge that he would shed his uniform on 31 December, 2004, which he had not fulfilled till today. Once again on the 3rd of November 2007, when he felt that power might go away from him, he has made a second coup and imposed Martial Law without any genuine grounds under the shadow of emergency. To keep the highest political office of president, he once again with the help of army generals derailed the process of democracy, which should not be despised but must be condemned, strongly.
This time, he committed a despicable crime by attacking the supremacy, integrity and independence of judiciary, which they were showing first time in the history of Pakistan. He tried to undermine their independence and integrity by accusing them that they were taking decisions in the favor of terrorist. Like 9th March 2007, once again he openly attacked on the independence of judiciary by changing the Chief Justice and removing senior judges who refused to accept his new Provision Constitutional Order. In his speech, he charged them for interfering in the matters of the executives and encouraging terrorist, which is completely absurd accusation.
The fact is that his poor leadership, ugly political tactics and poor policies have increased number of bomb blasts, enhanced frustration and alienation among people, and weaken integration of the federation - not the judicial decisions. Undoubtedly, he attacked on the judiciary because, in the hindsight, he got scared that the Supreme Court of Pakistan might declare recent presidential elections null and void and not allow him to contest presidential election for the next two years. Hence, he imposed emergency or martial law before the announcement of the decision of the Supreme Court. It is a fact that if the Supreme Court had barred him from contesting presidential election, it would have been accordance with the country’s constitution in which it is clearly stated that public servants during service cannot participate in politics. It is evident from his midnight speech on 4th November, 2004 that he is perturbed on the Supreme Court decisions that have gone or will go against him and his corrupt acolytes, therefore, he has now initiated media trial against the judiciary.
The recent proclamation of Martial Law and suspension of 1973 constitution shows that he is power hungry and can go up to any extent to keep it. He does not have any respect for any institution that takes a stand against his rule. Musharraf is a self proclaimed hero who has never won any war - neither as a solider nor as a president. As a solider he miserably failed in Kargil and as a political leader he failed in integrating the nation.
For the sake of country existence, provincial integration, democracy, independence of the judiciary and other institutions, we must strongly demand that Gen. Musharraf must step down as President and Chief of the Army Staff forthwith and immediately announce interim government that holds free and fair elections within three months.
Please sign this petition to support that we all want genuine (not controlled) democracy in Pakistan and disallow any army role in the national politics.
Sign a Petition here
http://www.petitiononline.com/demo07/petition.html
November 4, 2007 3:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 03:07
I notice that a lot of responses go for the
classic ad hominem attack instead of debating
the actual points brought out by Mr Ettefagh.
Could the fact that he is Iranian have something to do with it?
November 4, 2007 2:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 02:43
Being a Pakistani, myself sick of our idiotic and selfish generals and politicians, I would like to see and read comments from other Iranis. We, Pakistanis, feel something grow bigger in our throats when we hear someone from the west calling Iran a threat to world's peace. I invite other Irani's to express their views on the comments (article of Mr. Ettefagh). I know Mr. Ettefagh's hatred for Pakistan is due to its Sunni Muslim majority; but rest assured Pakistani Shias are as patriotic as their sunni brothers.
November 4, 2007 2:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 02:34
What a load of crap!!! This person either does not know a dime about Pakistan or is doing some other's bidding by ignoring all positives about Pakistan. He is conveniently forgetting about the 16o million people living in Pakistan and their will (which is not at all represented by what he has mentioned in his absurd article). I can understand that he wants to divert the attention from the overall perspective of Iran and its foiled attempts to become a nuclear nation and he wants to depict Pakistan as some entity like Afghanistan or Iraq but I am a citizen of Pakistan since birth and have never experienced one thing mentioned in this article. The remaining four provinces do not act as tribes and there is a common language that we Pakistani speak and it is known as URDU!!! (if Mr Ali Ettefagh doesnt already know). He should better talk about Iranians and their sponsorship of world wide terrorism. Yes Afghanistan is the biggest producer of opium so he should talk about US and its false war on terror which has increased the production by hundred folds. Why talk about the transit way (if there is one) and not talk about the basic problem of production. No production, no transit way. In the end I would like to suggest Mr Ali should come to Pakistan and look at the ground realities on his own rather than making claims from faraway places. The most preposterous thing to say is to divide the country into tribes as if Pakistan is a piece of pie on a kitchen shelf. Pakistan is a country with a thriving economy and wealth and not a US colony or an American spy state like Iran. It would be run by the will of Pakistani people!!!!
November 4, 2007 2:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 02:32
I think the author has failed to grasp the true meaning behind the identity and creation of Pakistan. I think this article is a futile attempt to view world events with a lens of the past and not the future. While 60 years might not appear as a long period in terms of the global history, a true examination of Pakistan would show how far this nation has come in the last 60 years. To run an economy of 160 million people with the amount of resources that Pakistan has is nothing short of a testament to the ability of the people to strive and thrive in today's world and a willingness to live together and cherish one another's cultures.
November 4, 2007 2:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 02:28
I have been long frustrated by the political instability of my neighbor.
I know there is great diversity across their provinces, India has greater diversity. I do not believe cultural diversity or different languages can be attributed to political failure.
Nothing will help till basic civil liberties in Pakistan aren’t restored. If it takes a democracy to achieve it, so be it. In the current state, breaking down geographic boundaries will only add to the mayhem.
November 4, 2007 1:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:55
Ali; I am guessing you are not iranian but you are persian!! Your father is a persian but your mother is swedish. Ali you are from persia; which is next to denmark. Ali unfortunately iran will be in pieces before pakistan everwill. Iran and araps have the same curse!! the oil, and the west wants to get them for free. Ali is not an indian agent he is a poor personality and lost soul.
November 4, 2007 1:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:55
Makes a lot of sense.
There was a good article titled "Blood Borders" in the June 2006 issue of the Armed Forces Journal, which proposed a similar solution to Pakistan and other such frankenstates of the region. It sent many Pakistanis into panic. Here's a version: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
November 4, 2007 1:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:54
Pakistan and its states have been in existence for 60 years.
The fact is Pakistan exists.
One must reconcile with this fact and move forward giving way to the youthful leaders of tomorrow whose faculties are not fettered with feelings ill and old.
We must be wise neither to entertain, propagate nor to pursue such nineteen century notions of divide and conquer in a century where countries shed their nationalism to form communities for economic and social prosperity
November 4, 2007 1:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:51
Seger:
In your post you state that "... a massive joint strike by the US and India (and possibly Israel) is in order to take out the N-weapons which Pakistan holds."
This is crazy and dangerous talk. Implications of any such foolishness are immense.
November 4, 2007 1:51 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:51
There is wisdom in your words. But, the older I get the less I believe in the goodness of man and change. Too many large players have their fingers in too many pies.
November 4, 2007 1:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:50
i am wondering if mr ettefagh made a grave typographical error. I think instead of the word 'Pakistan' he meant and should've had 'Iran' throughout his article !!
November 4, 2007 1:45 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:45
Pakistan's Biggest folly is that we never made a system for Governance except ''Rhetorics''No one followed any rule other then Loot & Plunder, Rule & Perpetuate it,From Facts to Fiction the likes of Religious Zealots. We never gave to the Nation what was enshrined to us by the Founders that though Islam shall be our Religion But our Governance shall be Secular.
The Agencies were deputed to play foul on one another and they do till the day,Judges became a commodity where Justice was never dispenced, Army became Rulers under the garb of saviours and our Politicians grabbed moni like wild dogs.
I still belive Pakistan will Survive But that responsibility lies on our Politicians to all sit in one Boat and sail the people to safety thru acceptance of Provincial Autonomy, Follow the Rules of Fair Play within thier Parties and when in Govt or in Shadow.I am sure they will have to adopt these rules of the Game to bring Respectability,Sustainability,System.Thank you.
November 4, 2007 1:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:38
Who are you to suggest your dirty idea of dissolving Pakistan?
Why not dissolve IRAN ? Iran has seen more militancy then Pakistan, The fall of Shah Iran, in whose time IRAN was prospering and then the so called Islamic revolution - by Ayat Ullah Khumeni Hindi.
Pakistan, has never posed a threat to any country, India walked into our borders and got kicked out in 1965, we surrendered in 1971 (East Pakistan) Just when were about to Capture Kargil, America Intervened and yet another time we pulled our troops back.
Iran is a threat to the world then, as Iran's president clearly said 'that he wants to wipe off ISRAEL from the map' I am not a supporter of ISRAEL but you are trying to give a suggestion or had no other thing to write , thus you came up with this idea of dissolving Pakistan !!!!!
We don't grow opium, Afghani's does, Pakistan fought for the Afghans in Soviet war and they were smuggling in our country, you call urself a muslim state ? and yet suggesting to dissolve Pakistan.
The organisation you work for (United Nations) is as useless and baseless as Your article !
What have the UNO Done in Africa ? Jonathon Dimblebee of Britain did a documentary in 2004 and he said he can't believe that the sanitary system was totally unacceptable as it was flowing where the poor african people were sleeping. Where do all that money goes ? UNO is good for nothing, I think UNO should be re-structured.
One More thing, Britishers are best colonizers not Americans.
Mutahir
November 4, 2007 1:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:18
Who gave permission to this joker Ali Ettefagh to write this rubbish? I find it too amusing to even give a slightest response to this piece of nonsense.
But would not hesitate to say that Iran has to be divided into at least six independent states and of course Iranian Balouchistan should be part of Pakistan.
November 4, 2007 1:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 01:04
Where to start? First Pakistan should never have been created. However, here it is. The best thing that can happen is for the West, i.e the US, to stay the out. Sixty years of meddling from the cold war to the war on terror have only made a bad situation worse. Can the Pakistanis get their act together. Of course they can, but many of the players with their fingers in Pakistan need to get their act together first. I guess that means no foreseeable change in the near future.
November 4, 2007 12:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:56
Dr. Ali your views are uglier than the politics in your native Iran. I think You do not have to worry about Pakistan, it will exist just fine, however that country of your called Iran is actually the most dangerous country of the world.
Iran is a leader in global terrorism, its leadership is corrupt beyond belief, religious mullah's in Iran are the most reppresive in muslim world. After Shah woman were raped and killed on the name of Islam, many of you took refuge in Paksitan. In Education to trade you have benifit from Pak. have no doubt Pak has pressure to use its land to attack your nation, none of your niegbors like Iran.
Iranians in US are disliked and just to let you know every Iranian in USA is in debt of Pakistan every time you want to go to motherland you got Embassy of Pakistan's so called Special interest section of Iran to get visa. I am going to be honest to you, after reeading your comments I think Pak should not help your terrorist country and help the world to get rid of menace. Turkey can take Tabriz and Azerbaijan belongs to Azerbaijan.
November 4, 2007 12:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:52
Mr. Ettefagh's Logical Ettoufage,
The problem with rhetorical questions is that they tend to hoist one with one's own petard, as it were. Why not dissolve Pakistan, indeed? And why stop there? How about India? Good Lord, what a hodgepodge! And Iran - didn't I see some kind of thinktank groupthink exercise on "the many Irans"? And weren't the British involved there too? Let there be many Irans!
Before we start on universal dissolution, treating countries as some kind of monstrous sugar cubes that we can somehow dunk in an universal solvent, we ought to ask, that is, if we have any vestige of intellectual responsibility in our inner stuffings, where does this process stop? And how about the US? Shouldn't that country also be dissolved? But wait, wasn't that tried before?
Best regards,
Dave Pernas
Los Angeles, California
November 4, 2007 12:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:50
THIS IS THE HIGHT OF IRONY. AN IRANIAN TALKING ABOUT A FAILED STATE AND DEMOCRACY. MAY BE HE SHOULD BE LECTURING HIS PEOPLE. WITH MILLIONS OF BARRELS OF OIL, ALL THEY HAVE ACHIEVED IS A 45% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND A RULE OF MULLAHS.
November 4, 2007 12:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:48
This is a disgusting article written by an Israeli/Indian agent. Pakistan was achieved through hugh sacrifices by the Muslims of South Asia. Enemies of Islam want to dissolve it. They will not suceed.
November 4, 2007 12:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:43
To Robert,
I am sure you are probably one of those young inexperienced "kids" who has not had an opportunity to become worldly, seasoned or experienced. You have probably never met someone from another country or had professional discussions with anyone outside of your "little world". You strike me as someone with a very shallow ego who feels the need to strike out at others by calling them "idiots". Before you type any other comments attacking the persons who are commenting on the articles take a deep breath and grow up before you embarrass yourself further.
To those of you that have provided these thought provoking comments I thank you.
May God and Allah bless the Pakistani people in this time of uncertainity.
November 4, 2007 12:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:37
Excellent piece! Finally, a common sense discussion of these sham nation-states. While we are at it, how about a free Kurdistand that includes part of Turkey?
November 4, 2007 12:27 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:27
Hey Ali,
Pakistan is not a failed state, you should have a courage to blame and criticize selfish british system whose shortsightedness gave birth to premature country. Pakistan should learn that religion should not be mixed with politics and people of Pakistan should realize that Indian are their biggest wellwishers.
November 4, 2007 12:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 4, 2007 00:22
Ali Ettefagh doesn't seem to know the facts! He even does not know the right names of Pakistan provinces! If Pakistan needs to be 'dissolved' into 4 pieces then I think terroist Iran need to go 1st. Mr. Ettefah idea will further destablize the world and innoncent blood will shed.
November 3, 2007 11:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:49
This is one of the very few times I have seen a Muslim (the author of this article) make sense.
But are not you afraid of Paki Muslims declaring a death fatwa against you like they did against the Somalian (Hirsi) author (PBUH)?
November 3, 2007 11:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:43
Who gave this idiot a Ph.D. That university should ask him to return the diploma. Or if he has any commonsense, he should return all his diplomas and write on his forehead "you are looking at a complete insane person."
November 3, 2007 11:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:38
If Pakistan is split then i do not think that it will bode will for Iran as per your state Balochistan will be a country and we all know very well that Balochistan-o-Sistan province in Iran would very much like to join this new state. And based on your analysis that would make perfect sense because they have more in common with Balochis in Balochistan than people living in Tehran.
This is the single most stupid article that I have ever read.
November 3, 2007 11:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:31
Yo dude Robert or Laloo Indophile,
a) One of the three wise men was from Kashmir and not Persia. You r knowledge of Christians is suspect.
b) If you are going to quote Churchill to prove your ridiculous point about Eastern Bloc in 1947 then you must concede he also had prescient powers towards a robust prowestern democratic Pakistan. ... Only Mr Churchill asks you to hold your longotee(Sarang) until his full prophecy about Pakistan comes true.
It may take sometime for you to understand it.
c) Pakistan has 165 million muslim, India may have 150 or more. What does that prove El Roberto?
On the other hand I was talking about the truism of lives of my family members and real people I know who have benefitted from Pakistan and enjoyed the fruits of freedom and education and availed opportunities to better our lives because we live in Pakistan and NOT India. I have compared myself with others like me from Delhi and find myself in a much better position. So this BOB! is no falsity. And the "events" I quote are the massacres of Muslims in Bombay, Mumbai, Baroda and Mosques being razed elswhere which to us real people in Pakistan are an affirmation of our choice to be in Pakistan rather than India. If given the choice we non-Sunni non-Punjabis would pick Pakistan over India every time.
I do not expect you to understand. I mean who are you to tell us what we should choose? And I will propagate this as much as I desire.
In the present circumstances, Pakistan needs a new charter, constitution. If Musharraf is able to do this then Churchill will be proven right again vis-a-vis "half-naked faqir".
November 3, 2007 11:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:10
It is obvious the man made creation of country, state and nation state is still not understood by many who do not know that they do not know.
Start from the source - the evolution of humans.
Families into communities and communities forming countries.
It is too bad not too many many people in the Middle East read Darwin, Marx and Adam Smith.
The human named Dr. Ali is obviously a member of the Planetary Federation from Earth. Naturally the members of the Klingon spiecies will see the reality differently.
He is dead on in his perspective.
November 3, 2007 11:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 23:02
After reading a few of the responses given here about the article above I have to admit that there are a lot of interesting people out there. First of all the political and economic world is changing. A change on the balance of economic power is happening but that was inevitable, regardless of USA foreing policy, the world must continue its course. I firmly believe that economics in the end dictate the political outcomes, I prefer not to give any examples because there are always exceptions to the rules and people will be quick to point them out. However, the USA was extremely successful in using the IMF and the World Bank to promote its political ideals, either right or wrong, the end result was exporting economic and political models to other countries, and those countries greedily took the monetary reward that came with the American idealism and attempted to implement ideas that had not root within them. The end of the European imperalism gave birth to the US and the USSR, then the cold war left the USA as the only superpower. Now is time for a cycle to start again, now the USA will decline slowly because it is convinient to the rest of the world that it happens slowly. As the US loses political clout in the world other countries will step up to fill the gap. There are too many factors to predict how and when the chinese will begin to involve militarily on the international arena, but they will have to gain more military muscle to be able to do that. In my opinion all countries will rather use soft-power, however, you need to have a bigger military power in case that soft-power fails. From here on the world will be more divided economically and politically speaking, and I don't see any major changes from the current trends of politics and economics.
November 3, 2007 10:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 22:24
The border between Afghanistan and British India assumed by Pakistan is a questionable hold over from another British machination, the Durand Line. Afghanistan has failed to recognize the Durand Line's continued international border status.
I note that Pashtunistan fails to have been a conceptual unit. Like the Kurds, the Pashtuns continue to take themselves seriously in spite of the continued efforts by "greater" powers to dismiss their nation state self concept.
The UN Charter prohibits the changing of national borders through aggression.
It is not clear whether the author has the Checzoslovakian or Balkan or Biden model for Iraq in mind and what process acceptable for the rest of time to implement it does the author have in mind...or is he just ventilating out of justifiable frustration.
November 3, 2007 10:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 22:11
Wonderful bias-free analysis & perspective from the country´s beginnings to current day. Would love to know if Dr. Ettefagh has written any books on this topic, and if so, what are the titles. Thank you.
November 3, 2007 10:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 22:03
Ali Ettefagh
It seems to me that you are working for Israely lobby.
November 3, 2007 10:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 22:01
It is now 1-30 am now- where I live and I came to know that Mush had declared Emergency. He doesn't want relinquish his power?
In this turmoil situation, where are my Baluch- Brethren? Why you are so silent? The time has come for you to take action against Mush who is now in quite vulnerable and weak. Your fighting for your freedom- I do respect. Your attempted strive for emancipation always be remembered. God bless good hearted Baluchis, and I pray to our almighty for their success. Again freedom is the essence of Life.
November 3, 2007 9:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 21:52
I was keen to read what Pakistanis had to say was the way forward. Unfortunately the forum has now been hijacked by the "shoot the messenger" crowd. I too don't agree with most of what Dr. Ali has to say. That said, Pakistan is definitely a failed state, with large parts out of the control of the central governments, particularly the NWFP area.
The solution is to inject a lot of money into the education system from primary education onwards and hope in 20 years a civil society with respect for the rule of law will be established. As things stand now, Pakistan has nothing other than a few nuclear bombs to its credit and is introducing instability to all the neighbouring countries. The generals have learnt how to squeeze the western governments for money and the generals in turn need to keep the fundamentalist bogey alive and time to time hand over a few to the west to keep the checks coming. The Pakistani politicians too have not served Pakistan well and have only drained the national coffers.
Hopefully the next democratic government will pull the plug and stop tax payer funds from being squandared. Let the Pakistanis sort out their own problems. We should not be judging them nor interfering in their internal affairs.
Iran is shite majority and Pakistan is a sunni majority and the twain shall never meet.
November 3, 2007 9:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 21:50
Ali Ettefagh
It seems to me that you are agent of Israily Lobby.
November 3, 2007 9:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 21:46
Pakistan has Tribal issue, like many other countries in the world. I don't think it is as serious as Dr. Ettefagh described. I think he is very much off the mark. I belief Pakistan suffering from little bit of ego, and duel personality. It has yet to define, itself as a Islamic country or a democratic one. People of Pakistan thinks themselves as a defender of Islam, but cannot define Pakistan as a truly Islamic state. Because a country based on Islamic law just does not work. On the other hand, Pakistan cannot define herself as a true democratic state, because of the lack of courage. Before 1971, it could not operate as a democratic state, because they were not willing to share power with Bangladeshis. This is because Pakistanies think Bangladeshis are not as good of a Muslim( at least that's what people in Pakistan think), of course generally speaking.
What Pakistan need to do, be either a Islamic state or a democratic one. If it adopts Islamic law, then be courageous enough to talk about the pros and cons of the Islamic laws, and should have willingness to modify or change it, if needed. The country just should not follow the sharia law blindly. If the country does not have the courage to analyze and change sharia law, then it should go for democratic system in full force.
November 3, 2007 9:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 21:05
Writer seems to live in a fantasy world and does not even have facts correct. Fist of all there has never been a UN peace keeping force in kashmir and Pakistan always had a coherent policy on kashmir it has always demanded the implementation of un resolution demanding write of self determination of kashmiris.
Pakistan has some troubles with regards to its regional harmony than which country don't have these problem, if we take example of india, it is also marred by troubles in its different provinces based on cast, cultural and even religious grounds so based this writers suggestions india should also be redemarcated. The fact of matter is Pakistan is surrounded by unstable and hostile neighbours like india, iran and Afghanistan and there problems spillover in Pakistan too and we do have problems and have done mistakes but are trying to improve. As for opium trade, writer has perhaps forgotten that Afghanistan has borders with iran and other central asian states too and majority of opium finds its way there.
November 3, 2007 8:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on November 3, 2007 20:57
Sir, not to worry. Soon, the extremists will soon have their hands on Pakistan's nuclear missiles. They, of course, will launch missiles on India and Israel, and thereafter they will be destroyed by the response. Situation solved. This situation will be repeated in all muslim countries that have their dirty little hands on nuclear missiles.
November 3, 2007 8:49 PM |