P.S. wrote:
---I speak as an Iranian, as a private citizen and I read the papers.---

Which papers do you read? The "Shargh"? Oh, forgot, that was closed down by the government. How about the "Nameh"? Oh yea, that was shutdown too. The Sobh-e Omid, Mihan or Sepideh-e Zendegi? I guess you're not reading any of the other 100 or so the government shutdown since 2000. Just what are you reading?

---Let's make a deal to stop this non-sense:---

Nonsense? I'm asking questions as to reports on the location of the Brit's kidnapping and you're calling me names. You trust the words of captives under obvious coersion over the words of the ships captain. All I'm trying to do is get you to consider what are the facts and not the lies the Iranians have said. You are ignoring the evidence, the GPS position the Cromwell reported, the GPS position the merchant ship's captain reported, the correct GPS position the Iranians first reported which was in Iraqi waters before changing the position to inside Iranian waters, and the testamony of the Brits once away from their captors.

---You volunteer and surrender yourself to Guantanamo for 1 week, for the full treatment that others get, and then we can continue this discussion after your "experience".---

What has Guantanamo have to do with the Iranian kidnapping. You are good at deflecting the conversation and good at ignoring facts. That might get you somewhere with other people but not me. Facts are facts and your ignoring them says a lot.

---Alternatively, turn yourself in to the nearest doctor for some serious treatment.---

Insults are usually the last statement of a coward. You're "don't confuse me with the facts" stance is classic but sticking with lies does not make them truth.

---Bye Bye FATE.---

Au revoir P.S.. Keep looking over your shoulder since most Iranians are not with you or your government.

I speak as an Iranian, as a private citizen and I read the papers. Iran and UK have diplomatic relations and Ambassadors and both are more than 18 years old.
Iran has a sovereign government which speaks for itself, just as presumably you are a private citizen and do not speak for and on behalf of the United States Government, sorry...the great, wonderful, super turbo-charged U.S. Government.

Let's make a deal to stop this non-sense:
You volunteer and surrender yourself to Guantanamo for 1 week, for the full treatment that others get, and then we can continue this discussion after your "experience". Alternatively, turn yourself in to the nearest doctor for some serious treatment. Bye Bye FATE.

P.S.,
Do you speak for Iran?

The poster above, FATE, seems to be in need of help. Does the Red Cross deal with this kind of people!?

It is amazing how an American appoints him/herself to speak for another sovereign country (UK) in a matter between Iran and Britain that has been settled a week ago between them!

Hello.....is there any one out there that can help this person? Is he/she Donald Rumsfeld in drag?

P.S. wrote:
---You are 100% right all the time, and the rest of the world is always wrong. OK? Are you happy now?---

Quite!

---I just wonder why you Americans are always itching for an argument and a fight, but when you lose (or are too clueless to figure it all out), you cry foul and start complaining. Anglo-American sports are the only ones with a subjective rule of "offside" and it is that offside mentality that seems to drive you.---

You don't have "offsides" in soccer or whatever you call it where you are? Games should be played fairly and countries need to treat each other in a fair manner. Iran crossed that line when it crossed the Iran/Iraq border to kidnap the Brits. Iran wasn't offsides, it committed a foul.

---USA is just one country in this world and has only one vote! No more! If Brits trespass Iranian waters, a gun is part of the law enforcement action. If it is pointed at their head, let it be.---

Yes, IF they crossed the Iranian border. I pointed out the merchant ship captain, whose ship the Brits were inspecting when they were captured while disembarking, says he was well inside Iraqi waters. A point you ignore for some reason. Why would the Indian flagged merchant ship captain lie?

---You forget how you treat people, in Iraq, Guantanamo or even your own county jails. Americans are the most trigger happy people in the world and have the world's highest rate of violent crime per 100'000 population and the highest percentage of people with criminal conviction histories (about 5-7% of the adult population). And you are complaining about foreign soldiers (not neighbours) being arrested in another country?---

Hmmm, would you rather be jailed in America or Iran? And yes, we Americans seem to be gun happy, but that's the movies mostly. I'm 50 years old and have never seen a civilian fire a gun or even carry one. Unfortunately, many outside America watch too much American movies and television.

---I refer you to the article above. The author has simply stated that Iranians want to be left alone. no interference from America.---

I'm sure they do. But you can't ignore a country that stands up and calls for wiping out another country, hides a nuclear program while a NPT signator and now feels free to cross borders and kidnap people. An Iranian exile was killed by Iranian agents just a few miles from my house in 1980. There is evidence that Ahmadinejad was involved in the 1989 assassination of Iranian exile Kurdish opposition leader Abdul Rahman Ghassemlou and two other Kurdish politicians in Vienna, Austria. We Americans know what happens when beligerence is ignored. If Iran wants to be left alone they can stop their terrorism.

---And America has no God given right to interfere with Iranian affairs. Simple!---

Then you would agree Iran had no God given right to kidnap Brits working in Iraqi waters with the UN and Iraqi permission. Did you know that one of the Brits boats remained data-linked to HMS Cornwall throughout the kidnapping and the GPS system showed them to be located well within the Iraqi area? And this position was later confirmed by the captain of the Indian flagged merchant vessel as: 29°50.174′N, 48°43.544′E
That position, which IRAN stated at first, is well within Iraqi waters. When this was pointed out to Iran they changed the coordinated two days later to inside Iranian waters. They cannot even lie very well it seems.

---Iranians don't want your version of "facts" or reality or American ways of political management or your loans. So, keep all those good things to yourselves and share it with your "friends". OK?---

I understand why the Iranians (and you) do not want the facts. And isn't it interesting that some here and in other places criticised the Brits for making money by selling their stories but no words on how the Iranians are making a documentary of the incident to sell. Seems they want to cement their version of events. And just what were the Iranians doing with video cameras anyway? Its looking like Iran planned this very well. The Brits did not put up a fight because the Iranians were so heavily armed. Heavily armed AND carrying cameras. Makes one wonder what they were up to.

We all know what happens when governments start lying to their own people. As the lies build up, the government is just setting itself up for a big fall. Understand this, few outside Iran are being fooled.

OK, FATE.

You are 100% right all the time, and the rest of the world is always wrong. OK? Are you happy now?

I just wonder why you Americans are always itching for an argument and a fight, but when you lose (or are too clueless to figure it all out), you cry foul and start complaining. Anglo-American sports are the only ones with a subjective rule of "offside" and it is that offside mentality that seems to drive you.

USA is just one country in this world and has only one vote! No more! If Brits trespass Iranian waters, a gun is part of the law enforcement action. If it is pointed at their head, let it be.

You forget how you treat people, in Iraq, Guantanamo or even your own county jails. Americans are the most trigger happy people in the world and have the world's highest rate of violent crime per 100'000 population and the highest percentage of people with criminal conviction histories (about 5-7% of the adult population). And you are complaining about foreign soldiers (not neighbours) being arrested in another country?

I refer you to the article above. The author has simply stated that Iranians want to be left alone. no interference from America. And America has no God given right to interfere with Iranian affairs. Simple!
Iranians don't want your version of "facts" or reality or American ways of political management or your loans. So, keep all those good things to yourselves and share it with your "friends". OK?

Oh P.S.,

Your comparison of Iranian democracy to the US is laughable. Yes we are a republic and not a pure democracy. And yes it seems to cost a lot of money here, but we're a big country with a lot of land to cover and a lot of people to see. Certainly it costs more than smaller countries. And don't pay attention to the money. Bill Clinton came in late and leaders at the time did not win. The only thing the money shows at this point is who is getting more money which translates to who is more popular. And the money they are receiving is limited and not the corporate gifts you think they are.

As for China, how willing is China to lend money to Iran? When countries are willing to lend you money you must be doing something right. Maybe Iran should try to borrow Chinese money and build a few refineries since they cannot produce enough gasoline for their own country. It would be interesting to see if China would lend to Iran.

I do agree that Bush still being in power is a reflection on Americans. His 30% popularity is a disgrace, even though that is considered low I do not understand why 1/3 of Americans like Bush. But the majority do not and you will see policies change as a result. Its already beginning. Last year there was no call for a pull out of Iraq. Now its just a question of when because we have true opposition. That is the power of a true democracy, when the people want change it happens, not right away necessarily, but the pressure is felt and elections make fundamental changes in the leadership. The GC in Iran makes that impossible. Who is the GC guarding the revolution from? The Iranian people, that is who.

And if you really believe the Brits were not having a gun held to their heads as they said they were in Iranian waters and discount the testamony of the ship captain, who is neutral in this confrontation, you are wishfully thinking and therefore blind to reality.

As I watched the reporting of the student demonstration supporting Iran's nuclear effort I was reminded of how the Soviets and Chinese could bring thousands out to demonstrate for anything, burning American flags, etc, but we always knew it was staged and eventually the people would bring down the government. It will also come to pass in Iran. The people are too educated and have tasted freedom and are eager to be rid of the mullahs. It will just take time.

FATE-

Iranian democracy is less than 30 years old and it has achieved a lot. When Iran intended to develop its democracy, Uncle Sam set up a coup and installed a dictator.

Every coutnry has an election law and an election commission which finally approves candidates to get on the ballot. Iran is no different. Just like USA, voter turn-out in Iran was about 55% of eligible voters at the last election, roughly on par with USA and UK.

Tell me, in USA or UK or more realistic countries like Germany or France or Italy or Spain...how many people get to stand in an election in the final round? Thousands, hundreds, 15, or two or three? The American system does not even afford a chance to the third candidate as the final voice is that of the Electroal College, essentially 500 or so people. So, even if a third party wins the popular vote, it does not matter as the crux of the matter is carrying the state and the votes tied to other parties....so much for "democracy" there!!!

Most fascinating is that in USA, many people run for election. However, in most European countries, people stand for election.
What is the difference, you might wonder? In USA, which is a republic and not a direct democracy, people must sell their soul to special lobbies so that they can buildup $$$ (26 million for Clinton, 25 for Obama) whilst in parliamentary democracies, elections are by concensus building. Why does it cost $300m to get elected in USA, but only $30m in UK or $20m euros in Germany or France.

As for Bush vs. other politicians, it does not matter really. George Bush represents America. If he makes a mistake, he does it on behalf of America and Americans. If Clinton was impeached for a personal affair, surely Americans can impeach Bush for going to war on advice of some charlatans and fraud artists. What are they waiting for? So, the answer is that he truly represents intentions of America and those values are quite isolated.

As for the position of British boats: just refer to the video explanation of the British sailors that clearly indicated their position to be in Iranian waters, and affirmed by others. There were soldiers and marines and if it was not true, why did they not keep a stiff upper lip in service of HM Government? Again, what is fascinating is that Iran and UK finally burried the hatchet, but you Americans want to keep going with your divide and rule (long expired) methods. It is time to realise that you Americans owe about 7 trillion Dollars to the rest of the world, mostly to Red China!!! no longer the economic powerhouse that it was. And, yes, Iran is not as economically powerfull as USA....it never claimed to be. But it does not have debts close to 65% of its GDP either!

P.S. wrote:
---For the time being, USA is having a dandy time some 4 years later after it attacked a cream puff called Iraq. USA has also back-tracked on its tough approach towards North Korea. It is not done any thing effective against Iran. So, is it not yet time to eat those AXIS OF EVIL words....with relish?---

One thing we can probably agree on is that Bush is an idiot, in many respects. He has not only messed up around the world, he has messed up at home, in some major ways. It does not surprise me that the US has not made progress in any area. Take your pick. Bush and his cronies are screwing up a lot. Luckily the American people have wised up and gotten over the lies Bush used to remain in office. He now faces a hostile Congress.

Now, in democratic Iran, 2500 people were prevented from running for office by 12 people called the Guardian council. Many found voting a joke in Iran. Iranians know that if they decide their leaders are bad enough to remove from office, or put in place politicians to oppose them, it cannot happen without the consent of the GC. We've been over this before. But I'd rather live in a true democracy that has temporarily lost its way with its leadership than in a faux democracy where there is little I can do to change the leadership.

You still have not answered the question of what the ship captain said his position was when the Brits were captured as they left his ship. Why?

FATE-
It is quite simple:

a. It is not Iran on borders of USA or the West, on a war of choice,
b. The so-called West has no right to interfere in Iranian affairs, in fact USA has promised in the Algiers Declaration not to interfer in Iran's internal affairs,
c. It was never Iran that put Saddam to attack Iran....it was USA.

This entire nuke story is rubbish. Back in 1975, Iran joined a nuclear fuel consortium in Europe, which is led by France, called EuroDiff. Iran paid more than $1 billion back then and is still a shareholder. But it has not gained any thing from that. morethan 50 years ago, USA signed an agreement for civil nuclear cooperation with Iran. Nothing happened out of that either, except USA took Iran's money. Finally, Iran is a member of NPT and Article 4 of NPT clearly compells all other states, including the P5 that have nuclear technology, to assist other members. Read it on IAEA's site. It is a duty of the P5 to help all others, not to prevent them!

Now, tell me how should the world deal with aggressors in the world when those are part of the P5 at UNSC?

For the time being, USA is having a dandy time some 4 years later after it attacked a cream puff called Iraq. USA has also back-tracked on its tough approach towards North Korea. It is not done any thing effective against Iran. So, is it not yet time to eat those AXIS OF EVIL words....with relish?

P.S. wrote:
---Afterall adults must be prepared to face the consequences of their actions.....the more realistic alternative is "Yankee Go Home" and live by all international rules that are for everybody.---

But, of course, this seems to only apply to the west, and not Iran... When the world isolates Iran via the UN please explain to me then how the west is beligerent and Iran is innocent.

I think you have to stay away from Starbucks and caffein for a while.... you have not justified what U.S. and UK military ships are doing in foreign places such as the Persian Gulf.... and take note that it has been called the Persian Gulf long before there was a U.S. of A. or UK!

Secondly, who cares whether or not USA has an embassy in Tehran? America decided to end its diplomatic relations with Iran, and not the other way around, and it must now live with it. The sun has in fact come up for every day of the last 28 years that Iran didn't have relations with USA.

To remind you, Americans did blow out an Iranian Airbus out of the sky, I recall and in fact Iran did pursue the matter in The Hague, with diplomacy and in a court of law (which America quit and no longer recongises its jurisdiction when it lost in a case to Nicaragua). Americans presumed that the rest of the world is stupid enough to believe that it was an "error" by a $1 billion radar (when $1 billion was a lot or money), but never explained to the world why the captain that made such mistake was given a medal!? Any way, that was a one-off courtesy extended by Iran. Iran did forgive, but it does not forget!

As for American warships "blowing" Iranian flaged ships out of international waters, do go ahead and try it and see what happens next in the real world!....not only from Iran, but also on the Arab street, including Baghdad. It will not be Hollywood and the show business that you take as news and as you know it........

Afterall adults must be prepared to face the consequences of their actions.....the more realistic alternative is "Yankee Go Home" and live by all international rules that are for everybody.

P.S. wrote:
---Here you go again,.... you want to change other countries. Who gave you or USA (which is presumably your reference to "we") the moral or legal authority to tell other people on the planet what to do?---

The US and any nation has legal authority to protect its ships in legal or international waters from piracy, kidnapping and hostage taking by any other nation. Iran has just proved it is ready to do all of the above so now we, and presumably all nations near any Iranian ship, will be on a heightened alert. No one has pointed out what the captain of the ship the Brits were inspecting has said. I wonder why? I would think his word on where he was located would be important. Anyone know what he said about his ship's position or have you ignored that little piece of information?

---Iran has diplomatic relations and dialogue with every country in the world except USA and Israel. Even with UK and they resolved their problems with dialogue.---

The Iranians kept American diplomats hostage for 444 days and released them after the US paid a ransom. The people who ordered the hostage taking are still in power in iran. If a nation did that to your diplomats what would your reaction be, open an embassy? We HAD an embassy in Tehran. We did not destroy it.

---So, I suggest you accept the way it is. Reality as it is, not your version of reality!---

Yes, we must live with the reality. Expect Iran to get a bloody nose the next time it tries to take a hostage. And Iran had better keep to its own waters. You can be sure that there are more than a few ships in the Gulf ready to blow something out of the water that has an iranian flag outside iranian waters. You see, diplomacy is a two way street. Iran cannot dictate the conditions, take hostages when it wants something, and then expect to be treated like a civilized nation. The world now knows what the Iranian people know, Irans rulers are a bunch or mullahs and their cronies and families. 300 people rule Iran and are a tight nit bunch of thugs. The Iranian people know this very well. Why don't the posters here?

I am prepared to spend a 2 week stint in Iran like the Brits, get fed, play chess and ping pong, have a few smokes, get a brand new suit and some gifts from the Iranian president and then come home and get £100'000 ($200'000) for my story for some tabloid....not bad, especially for a soldier that earns less than £24'000 ($48'000) a year!

Did the USSR ever gave gifts and new suits to spying suspects before they were released?

How well Iranians had read the minds of the Brits far in advance.....

The British soldiers went back and changed their stories and were authorised to sell their stories by the Ministry of Defence (very unusual conduct by soldiers, especially tough marines). And in that tabloid junk, the soliders were of course "tortured", "isolated", and their hand tied....gee, aren't hand-cuffs a western product!

Now that Iran has released additional video of the soldiers, laughing, playing chess and ping pong, smiling to the camera......I wonder who will win the post-release propaganda contest?

Must say that he has a point here... now that these soldiers have been released and are earning money to sell their stories, they must make up sensationalist stories to sell tabloids.

I know of no other country to treat arrested suspects in the way Iran has treated them....gifts and brand new suits on departure, access to their family to writer letters and fax it for them, etc. Surely our British troops do not treat Iraqi or Afghan prisoners in that way!

Interesting to see the exchanges above between FATE and the rest of the world!

I have to agree with P.S. that no one has appointed USA to be a guardian of the world. We are all at least 18 years old! Iran has seen it all over thousand years of history.

Yes, FATE, no need to thank USA. But necessary to tell USA to mind its own business and leave other countries alone

I forgot to mention two other points:

1. Red China is still red, and America's largest creditor!

2. USSR was defeated in Afghanistan by a bunch (then) named The Mujahedeen, now known as Al Qaeda...a rag tag bunch of extremists from a U.S. ally named Saudi Arabia. The most fascinating thing is that the same bunch of rag tag extremist "allies of USA" are defeating Uncle Sam in Iraq! Ain't that tough luck as the world would know it?

FATE
Here you go again,.... you want to change other countries. Who gave you or USA (which is presumably your reference to "we") the moral or legal authority to tell other people on the planet what to do?

Iran has diplomatic relations and dialogue with every country in the world except USA and Israel. Even with UK and they resolved their problems with dialogue.

So, I suggest you accept the way it is. Reality as it is, not your version of reality!

P.S. wrote:
---This writer is simply saying that we have to accept Iran as it is, not as we want it to be.---

We want it to be a responsible country. It has proven itself to capable of piracy and kidnapping and hostage taking.

---And Iran has shown to be reasonable in negotiation, and it has given the previews of what comes next if it is roughed up.---

So is the Mafia, what's your point?

---As the title clearly states, reality is running Iran.---

Yes it is and now that we know the reality our defenses will change. I don't think anyone is surprised at the illegal actions Iran took, just surprised they had the balls to do it.

---Live with it.---

Yes, unfortunately we must live with it, as we lived with Red China's self isolation and the Soviet Union's expansionist agenda, which by the way America help halt and helped kick them out of Afganistan. That's ok, we don't need any thanks, we're Americans.

All doubters ought to carefully read the following from BRITISH MEDIA, and not from another country:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2052588,00.html
Especially the part about Iran's interest in the mission of the ship in question after it was publicly aired on British TV.

Thereafter, it is good to read this article about the fact that the UK soliders are making more than half a million Dollars (or 250'000 Pounds) from selling their story, with the permission of the British Ministry of Defence, only to help in the propaganda. Obviously, the more fictional, the http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2052699,00.html
more commercial value the stories will have.

And the truth? Just a victim, as usual!

The author has pointed it out correctly: another episode of the U-2 and Colin Powel at UNSC.

Check out:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2430092.ece

TM,
I can read. I've been reading a lot. The facts are clear that Iran entered Iraqi waters and took Brits working under a UN mandate with Iraqi govt approval. And why do you always compare bad treatment with other treatment. Do you approve of Abu Graib because it was no worse than Saddam's prisons? You methods of justification are arbitrary but always against the west.

Iran has just taken the Iran/west tension up another notch. As sanctions are imposed, UN, EU, and others, expect changes in Iran. I'm certain that most Iranians who know the facts will not approvel of the mullahs taking their country once again closer to confrontation.

This writer is simply saying that we have to accept Iran as it is, not as we want it to be. And Iran has shown to be reasonable in negotiation, and it has given the previews of what comes next if it is roughed up. As the title clearly states, reality is running Iran.
Live with it.

Wow, the British Ministry of Defence "proves" that its soldiers were in Iraqi waters.....what else? It is their job, even if it is not the truth.

Looks like the MOD is having difficulty to see the jungle as the trees block their vision--the entire war is illegal and the British forces have no legal grounds to be in Iraq or Iraqi waters. Ask its EU partners!

FATE
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to read, at least my comments. I said that the British were acting in the name and on behalf of the British government, in an illegal war (which has also been the finding of the British Attorney General reported to the British Parliament), not for UN or the Iraqi government and they have not followed the rules.

Mock executions? The same soldiers that were thanking the Iranians? I presume they were trained to say nothing except their name, rank and serial number.

And, does any one arrested by the British or Americans, mind you in their own country (say Iraq or Afghanistan) get any better treatment? What goes around, comes around. The staged news conference of the British soldiers, reading from a prepared statement is certainly not "mocked" or fabricated, eh?

Well TM, I'm glad to see you dropped the blue helmet theory, the UN uniform theory, the UN flag theory and the "what the hell are they doing on this side of the planet" theory. You now admit they were there on a UN mandate. You say it expired. Maybe the UN needs to decide that, which it never did.

Now, the evidence gathered by the Iranians as to the location of the Brits was in Iraqi waters ...no no no, Iranian waters, yea, that's it.

Now we hear the Brits were held in isolation with mock executions and forced statements. If Iran ever wanted to make an enemy, it just did. Why is it that taking hostages and humiliating them is a hobby of Iran's mullahs. You'd think men of God would have better things to do with their time.

Oh well, another cooment from poster FATE whichtotally dismisses being objective.

The UN mandates of keeping air and sea controls, no fly zones, etc. on Iraq was on Saddam's Iraq, and it has expired along with the oil-for-food program, banking sanctions against Iraq, travel bans, etc. etc. There was going to be a new UN mandate, but when the UN offices in Baghdad were bombed and UN personnel killed, the whole plan fell apart.

It is absurd to say that UK and USA are still mandated by UN to partol Iraqi waters on behalf of Iraq on an old resolution, while other parts (trade, banking, flights, etc.) are lifted. Moreover, UN has not approved of the attack and occupation of Iraq by USA and UK. The sum of this means that UK and USA are in Iraqi waters based on their "coalition of the willing" marketing plan, under their own respective national flags.

Iran has only provided lip service to "prove" the Brits were in Iranian waters. The British provided this:
http://conservativethoughts.us/2007/03/28/ministry-of-defense-briefing-proves-royal-navy-personnel-were-in-iraqi-waters/
proving the British seamen were in Iraqi waters. Even the Iranians reported the correct position of the capture on Saturday only to change the position on Monday after the Brits pointed out the position the Iranians gave is in Iraqi waters. Ammadenijad is as bumbling as Bush it seems.

Now, as for the blue helmets, no blue helmets are required nor UN flags when serving under a UN mandate. You only wear the UN symbols when serving AS a force under UN command, such as a UN peacekeeper. In that case you take orders from the UN. Its one thing to be a UN soldier, its another to be a British soldier working under a UN mandate. American soldiers in Somolia were working under a UN mandate in the famous Black Hawk down incident. Where were their blue helmets and UN flags? And what about the merchant ship the Brits were captured from while disembarking? Its captain reports they were in Iraqi waters in agreement with the British GPS position. The only ones lying here are the Iranians.

To FATE

If thee British were enforcing a UN mandate, they must fly the UN flag and wear UN uniforms, as the author has observed. These are standard and international rules. If they were working in the name and on behalf of the Iraqi government (excuse me, the democratically elected, free and sovereign government of Iraq,...HA HA HA....), then international rules are such that both British and Iraqi flags must be flown, jointly and at equal height.

These systems of international symbols and standards meana lot. However, all news footage showed that the Brits were flying the St. John's flag of the English, with the UK flag in the top left corner. This is the standard naval flag of UK, as only the English (but not the Scottish, the Welch or the Irish) are allowed to have naval forces.

So, the author is quite right: they were foreigners, they did not follow the rules of being "being hosted" by Iraq and they were not part of a UN mandate, in all likelihood and probably didn't have permission to fly the UN flag. The rest starts from there.

tm wrote:
---OK, let's say this writer is wrong and the Brits were not in Iranian waters. But the main point is: what the hell are they doing there, so far from their home country?---

They were enforcing a UN mandate. They were British soldiers working for the UN. British military patrols have been given authority to board vessels in Iraqi waters under United Nations mandate and with the permission of the government in Baghdad.

Kohsar240 wrote:

---MSNBC is bad mouthing Brtish soldiers for not following the rigid military protocols. This is 21st century and those WWI codes are outdated. Rigid rules must be dismantled and let poor soldiers to be a little more human. MSNBC: no need to court martial these soldiers. They acted and behaved courageously.---

I haven't heard MSNBC's reports but I was surprised that the soldiers were speaking so freely on Iranian TV. The military rules of prisoners is not outdated. Their talking gave the Iranians propaganda and made obtaining their freedom harder. One can understand if their speaking was coersed, as some of it appeared to be. Does anyone believe the woman freely wore the headscarf?

I'm sure the British will determine what happened, and if the soldiers spoke against military rules they may or may not be disciplined. But you can be sure all of Britains military will begin retraining its soldiers on how to act if captured. Another thing is certain, Iran made yet another enemy. Its seems to be making a lot of them in the past 28 years. You can count Iran's friends on one hand. And I expect some will say the US has also lost friends. True, Bush is a lousy president, but which country is having an immigration problem and which country is loosing its best people?

MSNBC is bad mouthing Brtish soldiers for not following the rigid military protocols. This is 21st century and those WWI codes are outdated. Rigid rules must be dismantled and let poor soldiers to be a little more human. MSNBC: no need to court martial these soldiers. They acted and behaved courageously.

Parading Taliban captives and keeping them in limbo, desecrate their holy book, kidnapping Iranian diplomats without any trace of their whereabouts are example of hard-core POWER. If you have the power, you have the FREEDOM to SET AND DEFINE WHAT AND WHO IS WRONG OR RIGHT. This is the REALITY, unfortunately. A world of adjustable standards.

Good one. It is time to restart with Iran with an open mind.

OK, let's say this writer is wrong and the Brits were not in Iranian waters. But the main point is: what the hell are they doing there, so far from their home country?

In the meanwhile, The Jerusalem Post and other neocon media have been writing stories that UK and America were planning a massive attack against Iran on 6th of April.

So, if nothing else, Iran has acted in its national interests to avert a war. Has it not? and this presumes that Blair's announcement of yesterday of working out differences with Iran will be with dialogue.

To Poster -S

The author has clarified the ordinary rules of dealing with neighbours and errors vs. soldiers from far away lands. Border guards all over the world, even though they are in uniform and armed, cross a few hundred yards into a neighbour's territors. Those that are very suspicious of each other, say, South and North Korea, create a demilitarized zone. But it is quite another story when complete strangers come in and then call themselves on mandate of UN, at invitation of the Iraqi government, etc.

The USSR was in Afghanistan on invitation of the Afghan government, remember that one?

Would some one put a leash and a muzzle on this Jakob Josevs poster? Hello, does this site have a moderator?

Hello Cousins, Brothers and Sisters; “There is Nothing Like A Good Philosophy”

Today is: UNIVERSAL YEAR CIRCA, 4.98 Billion Year-TIME, 2007.4th.April, Calendate.

Remember my Cousins:

To "pray" is to "SPEAK" to G-D. And to "meditate" is to “LISTEN," Yes as many times as One likes and in ANY tongue or language(s)). And R.E.V.E.L.A.T.I.O.N Is the same as A,P.O.C.A.L.Y.P.S.E and is opposite or contrary to any “Secrets” or “Mystics” in ANY of the VEDIC, TIKKUN, ZILZAL, Scriptures or Suras. Therefore In Shalah & Praise the beneficent One in Ourselves. Yes!

WELCOME: Today while still being in OUR Miraculous Form [in Photo-Finite Essence) I Thank You for your time here on Space-Ship Momma/Poppa Earth, as you may appear, in either cyberspace or in the flesh and in the awareness of your Own senses via your own beautiful Carbon-Based & Microbial Life Form, both in the ANIMATE & in the INANIMATE state via ECLATS “TIME” (not your Clock or Gravity time) a/k/a TEMPERATURE OF TIME ITSELF.

TIME is inseparable from the MIZAN (Arabic for balance) of IT (G-d) which Yings & Yangs between ABSOLUTE HEAT & ABSOLUTE COLD. Example: Average TIME of the Universe or Your Own Body Temperature, or Microbial or Caterpillar, Holy Cow, Rock, Soil or Nuclear Core, Surface or Sub terrain or Planetary Temperatures radiated via ALL the animate & Inanimate things in existence.

First, Thanks to WAPO for offering this online segment, It is really an excellent use of the potential of the internet to open dialog and understanding between nations, governments and especially the people whom those institutions are charged with serving.

Thanks also to Mr. Ettefagh, your insights are really helpful as a resource to decode the disaster that US Middle Eastern diplomacy has become.

While I find certain of the Iranian Governments policies and beliefs to be distasteful, such as their presidents views of the holocaust, I do think that Iran poses no threat to either the US or Israel, as they have not willingly attacked another nation for about 250 years.

I see a great deal of the suspicion and hostility that the the US and Israel are greeted with by Iran as the result of our fininacial and military support of the Iraqi's in the Iran/Iraq war, which claimed more than a million casualties on both sides, and because we installed the Shah,
and helped maintain his brutal reign for far longer than the Iranian people could bear.

I find it rather telling that as this story of the British troops was playing out, Israeli newspapers such as the Jerusalem Post, were running stories that claim that the US was only days away from a full on air and sea assault of Iran, when in fact nothing of the sort was the case, apparently hoping that such baseless and pathetic threats might spark the war that Israels ultra right wing is so desperate for.

I also find it telling that the President was scolding members of the house and congress for meeting with the Syrian government, also as this story was playing out, saying that their actions were counterproductive, when in fact, negotiations with Syria, Iran, and securing a palestinian state is exactly what the Iraq Study Group vitually begged this administration to do in order to begin the journey back towards a sane US policy in the middle east.

The Neo Cons are getting increasingly desperate, as their case for ongoing wars in the middle east begin to go up in smoke. The Israeli settlers and their supporters are also getting desperate because they see that their days are numbered, and the return of the West Bank and East Jerusalem to the Palestinians is imminent.

I look forward to the day that we return to a policy of full diplomatic dialog with Iran in an effort to bring peace to the region and fullfill the goals of both nations in a respectful manner.

What this view misses is that Iran compleatly acted outside of international norms in handling this. When the Brittish accidently 'invaded' Spain a few years ago, were they captured? When just this year the Swiss accidently crossed their border it was quickly over. When Brittish troops may or may not have strayed into Iranian waters....it becomes a kidnapping ordeal. If Iran wants to be treated like a civilized advanced country with respect to nukes and other issues, they should act like the rest of the world instead of throwing a tantrum and making it a point of pride.

After being mislead by the Bush administration, I no longer take anything he or the British say at face value (not that I ever had much faith in them to begin with). But it's foolish to not hold the Iranian government to the same, if not higher standards. Given the situation, Iran had everything to gain by kidnapping British sailors outside of their waters, and the US and British had no real reason to go into Iranian waters. Even if the British were in Iranian waters, a simple admission of their mistake like in 2004 would have settled the situation before it got serious and caused oil prices to go way up.

The most logical answer to the question "what happened?" is this: Iran felt justifiably threatened by the placement of so many Western forces around them, was upset at the US/British backed sanctions placed upon them, and was mad at the fact that their diplomats had been arrested in Iraq. As a show of force, they took the British sailors to prove that they could strike back if dealt with heavy handedly, and perhaps used them to get concessions from the Americans on their own jailed citizens.

I in no way condone what Iran did, but nor do I fail to see their reasons for taking such actions. But to simply regurgitate the same blindly anti-American propaganda that has been flooding out of the middle east for so long is just as ignorant as the blindly pro-bush propaganda that has been spewing out of the White House since 9/11. The reasons there is so much fighting and tension in the middle east is because of people like George Bush and Ali Ettefagh.

buttes

I agree with the writer. We want to stay independent. The old days are gone. We are a completely different country than 30 years ago. The world must understand this fact.

Observations about lack of first hand experience is on target. The media are running a business and they cannot replace first hand fact-finding.

to FATE

After 4 years of failure, isn't it time for your lot of war mongers to stay quiet and see how the rest of the world do things? Do you really think you can achieve something by causing more instability in the area, or is it that you are sniffing too much gasoline for recreation?

What should we do when a nation that has hostage taking as a strategic weapon, creates terrorists (Hezbollah), supports terrorists (Hamas, Hezbollah, the revolutionary guard), and threatens other nations? The Iranians once again took hostages and it looks like once again the West is going to let them get away with it. That does not make what they did right and certainly does not make them civilized. Time to kick Iran out of the UN and islolate them politically, economically and militarily.

There are good people in Iran but none are allowed to run for office or make the mullahs upset. They killed a canadian reporter for reporting on a student demonstration, something they don't want anyone to know about. The Iranian people themselves have given up on their government. Why should the rest of the world have to pay attention to them?

One idea: A UN embargo on gasoline exports to Iran. That's right "to Iran". Iran does not have the capacity to make its own gasoline. Cut off the gasoline and I give the government about 30 days. All the majority of Iranians need is an excuse. Lets give them one.

To Poster ALLAH:

Don't know where you are writing from, but if you are in USA, why don't you join the surge in Baghdad? It is afterall a "free and democractic" country, is it not?

Given the calm and diplomatic course of negotiations, the war-war mentality just suffered another bankruptcy event today! If recent events have not changed Tony Blair, I don't know what could. George W. must be standing out there naked, all by his lonesome self.

Great!
We have to realise that we must start fresh, with a clean slate if we want to have a better understanding of Iran, Iranians and today's sitution, not what happened 20 or 50 years ago. Any takers?..... Hello Baker-Hamilton Commission?

Anyone who trusts this guy should pack their bags and move to the paradise that is Iran. As usual the left has made unnecessary concessions to the biggest state spoonser of terrorism!

The prejudice of readers against Iranians is simply amazing. Just because some one is writing from Iran does not mean that they are mouth piece. I guess it affirms the writer's last paragraph that there is no first hand information about Iran and, more importantly, people accept whatever the media says.

Surf the net and you can see the difference between Anglo-American (English language) media vs. the web sites of, say, Chinese bloggers, Russians, Germans, French and the rest of the world.

Diplomacy wins. War mongers beware!